I have observed in my life that "more is caught than taught" which is why parents pass their mentality down to the third and fourth generation. Occasionally someone in the family stands against the family model. I was not like my family, I hate all the arrogance and one-upmanship and competitiveness. My two brothers are just like my parents and have continued all our lives their contempt for me when I have done nothing unkind to them. They act mean but never say why they don't like me. Communication is foreign and even contemptible to the narcissist. My brothers are afraid of me and I think it is because they know how they have treated me and it has not worked to turn me into them. We are all in our 70's now and nothing has changed, I gave up a long time ago and removed myself, because of this the gossip ran amuk and they have managed to convince others something is wrong with me.
My sister was born evil. I truly believe that. She is a copy of my narc dad only worse since she is the only one he protects. I knew this even as a child. It is a reason why as a teen I decided never to have children because I was afraid to birth another demon. As an old woman and seeing the lives they have destroyed I do not regret my decision.
@001singularity Right! Good for you! I'm 69, with cancer, and a mother of one very messed up 27 y.o. daughter after being raised by my narc mother & marrying a narc man. You made the right decision. I devoted myself to her care, but his unrelenting absence & contempt over rode my best efforts. efforts
Yes sir, generational narcissism definitely exists in my family! I have a twin brother who is a malignant narcissist. He is quick to anger and he is the expert on everything and it's all about him. I have tried to stand by him our entire life and he doesn't appreciate it.. Dr. C you have helped me so much in dealing with people like this. I always check myself first before I gently separate myself from the toxic energy 😊
It’s so hard when it’s your sibling that’s a narcissist and I can imagine how hard being your twin. My sister is one and I considered her my best friend for decades despite the manipulation and drama she created. It has gotten severe now with age, even dangerous. I will have to cut ties permanently as soon as I’m able.
@@Cassiemom-1234I so hear you. I'm the oldest of 4 & was born alert & sweet. As a 2 y.o., I watched my mother Not pick up a newborn when crying. I've had a child & Know the primal instinct to comfort a crying baby. They are ignorant & stupid as far as comforting goes. I over corrected with my own.
@@debbievoss3496. Babies need to be responded to always. If they don’t need fed or changed you just let them fuss awhile, then check in again. It makes them secure if they can count on you.
I was raised by a narc and had kids with one. I was terrified that my kids would inhereit narcissism. Luckily they don't. The more I study and observe it, the more I'm convinced it's caused by bad parenting. The reason one sibling could get it but not others, comes down to intelligence and personality differences between them. The narc child idolizes the narc parent and thus mimics their behavior. I had to do a lot of work to heal and be intentional in my parenting to break generational curses.
I believe narcissism is inherited because in families that parent children with the same fairness and attention, some turn out narcissistic while others don't. There's definitely a "nurture" component of course too, but those normal parents who have 1 kid who is absolutely toxic and narcissistic get blamed by society for creating one when in reality they are no more responsible than having a kid with autism or schizoaffective disorder. These last ones were also deemed in the past were caused by "cold bad mothers'. Your kids lucked out. I have a sensitive kind son and an out of control borderline daughter. The daughter had more supports and therapy in her life than anyone I know and she's now out causing others so much grief,
I came from an abusive, narcissistic family. I was definitely a person with strong, (learned), narcissistic behavior. Going no contact with my family of origin made a huge difference in my personal growth. I made a commitment to recognize my own narcissistic patterns and tackle it. And just because you don’t mismanage your dog’s training ( everyone does…NOT setting boundaries is just as abusive), doesn’t mean you don’t have room for improvement. Red flags always go off with people who think they are so warm, fuzzy and easy going. They are most likely, in my experience, to lose it in the face of adversity.
I think there’s a learned aspect there, where a narcissistic parent doubles down on creating shame in a child that learns their “best” way of coping is control and self aggrandizing. And on it continues ….
I’ve reflected on my in-laws generational issues, and can see where a grandparent affects the nature of their child, who affects the nature of their own. That 3rd generation affects the 4th. I married into that 3rd generation, and am heartbroken over the effect on the 4th. Exodus 34:7, Numbers 14:18, and Deuteronomy 5:9 has caused me to learn all I can about great and great-great grandparents. I wanted to know what generational predispositions I should watch for.
@@aaronkwolfe 👋 👊 Let’s educate the young on what to watch for and what not to do. If I had a name for this type of personality growing up, my life would have been totally different. ☮️
@@aaronkwolfeAlso, Ezekiel 18:25-30 The Lord will judge each person to their own conduct and Dueteromony 24 v 16 Each person shall be put to death for their own sin. I would think then that a generational curse as you say is a tempting to a particular sin or sinful nature of having been exposed to.
Well, this video left me with both encouragement, and confusion since you used a 50/50 answer on genetics and learned behavior. All I know is I'm worse at 62 than I was at 35. Gonna keep fighting to find out the root cause, and more importantly a game plan for reducing the wreckage of narcissism and possibly bipolar disorder, thank you for your insight
He once said it’s about a 60/40 split with the environment or nurture playing a trump role over temperament or inherent nature. Sibling placement also has a lot to do with because of birth order & only kids are at greater risk. The mental health of the mother or primary caregiver is always the deciding factor in a child’s mental health too
Thanks Dr. Carter, I always appreciate your videos they are very informative and helpful! I don’t feel so alone and I’m one of so many other people struggling and suffering from living around and with these kinds of people! Love you Dr. Carter👍❤️🙏🏻
Good idea. Check myself first! They are playing by the rules they expect from others. But they don"t expect of themselves like dropping in on you. Always check YOURSELF.. They will try to catch you offguard. "Their thought process is disordered.". Don't come from the same place you/we do. Thank you Dr. Carson.
The gentleman who has a horrible brother sounds EXACTLY like my family. He is the only one who is a selfish bully. He is not invited to any family gatherings. We all had the same inept parents, but of course, each kid has their own perspective of events and daily life. The rest of us have worked on healing from the damage done individually and as a family. We are closer now than we have been for decades. We operate with dignity, respect, and civility. ❤😊
My son sees a therapist as he knows he has some of his narcissistic father's traits. He says he doesn't want to be like him. Proud of him that he is doing something about it. My other son is just like his father but fails to see it.
I traced our maternal covert narcissism back a couple of centuries to famine Ireland. Along with the Catholic Church & its poor treatment of unwed mothers, this family dysfunction became normalized. I also was able to follow narcissistic personality disorder on my father’s side. It was German as well as French Protestant & there I found full blown overt narcissists. My grandmothers both didn’t want children even though married, but each produced one in their thirties. These kids then gravitated to each other like white on rice
In The Irela d Orphanges, many infants were thrown out of windows and left to die. You can find information about these Catholic orphanages online. So, numerous TRAUMA through generations.
An individual who has a narcissistic personality style lives to control others. To THEM, that control gives them power. Wielding that power against the innocence of a child is as heartbreaking as it is unconscionable. "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." ~ Acton True. Truer still, in an individual who has a narcissistic personality style, once begun, the corruption self-perpetuates. Stay Sharp. Stay Strong, and please... Stay Healthy!!
So grateful for this video!!! I am completely baffled by who my older sister turned out to be, and she is so cold and dehumanizing that I can’t be around here. I can’t stand the haughty arrogance with which she treats others (and me!) and how she only cares about herself and who she can bribe to stay in her life. I can’t tell you what all having her as my sister has cost me in my life, and of course her perspective is “after everything I did for you?” That sentence needs to read “after everything I did TO you?” to be accurate … to which my answer is, “Yep! And enough’s enough!” 😊❤
Thank you Dr. Carter. My sad situation with my 90 year old narcissist father. I called it out and now I’m cut off. You are helping me to have peace as I told him it stops with me!
Having tweaked cortisol has a weird effect on emotions. I think it gets like smoking or drinking, it is comforting and familiar. Relatives continue to chase the 'high'!
My sister, our mother, my mother's father....That's as far back as I knew first hand. I always felt they were 'off My mother idolized her father but I felt I needed to avoid him, though I didn't know why. My mother became very abusive and my sister is like Mom on steroids. They get worse with each generation.
I am convinced that the source of narcissism usually comes from a combination of genetics and upbringing. People who are genetically susceptible are taught from birth how to be narcissistic. It is often nearly impossible for these people to break free of this cobweb. I come from a generationally narcissistic family and was raised by a narcissistic mother. My mother was so broken that I never felt inclined to emulate her. I felt sad and scared by who she was. Ironically, her brokenness probably saved me. My cousins have wholeheartedly succumbed to the family genetics and instructions. I have parted ways with them. I cannot live like that. Thank God!
During the course of his professional life, Professor J. Philippe Rushton of the University of Western Ontario believed behavior is 50% genetic and 50% learned. But, near the end of his life he concluded behavior is 80% genetic and only 20% learned.
Great topic. Looking forward to listen!! In the latest months I began to observe more _"widely"_ in my family. Meaning, my relatives and extended family / families. To be honest 100%, ... after learning about narcissistic abuse and after becoming aware of my own personal condition, my very first "glance" (with the aid of this knowledge) was drawn by a young adult girl of my extended family... I could see her someway, only for a very short time, now and then, when I have re-entered In Contact with my family of origin (because of multiple manipulations I wasn't able to see)... so, In Contact, again, and tons of problems, after many years I was Low Contact living in another village. [Thank Heaven, this "In Contact again" situation brought me to the discovery of personality disorders and opened my eyes on the serious abuses ]. Long story short, the family of that girl (nearly 20 yo) is scapegoating her, I have no doubt. I've never heard a good word about her. Only bad criticism and mockery, and much more. A very strange case, so to speak, I can't even well understand the strange (very strange) behavior of my relatives when speaking about her. It's very strange first and foremost because my relatives (=her family) talk a bit _too much_ about her even to people who never see her! I mean, what the heck do you want to tell me about a person that I nearly never meet and nearly I don't know this person, except her name? [ to be precise, they rarely speak directly to me face to face, obviously I'm not exactly the person they want 😅!, but at home I can hear them talking to my narcissistic parents, and my parents know the girl as much as me. Meaning, they never see her as well ] . I'm aware that in my current situation I can do nothing (also because I don't want to risk worsening her position). However, my point is, I want to heal, and not only for me. Also for other people. Also for her. What to do, when and how to do it... Maybe one day I may ask a well written (ok short, not wordy) question for dr C.
You could reach out to the girl if she is there and say, "I'm sorry you are going through this, I had a tough time in my side of the family too". Or send her a friendly email not talking about anything just being her friend.
@sadderandwiser Hi. Thank you for your reply. To complete the picture; these relatives of mine criticize the girl with contempt for very normal facts... I mean, the girl really lives a normal life (and as far as I know she is in therapy with a psychologist. Oh well, who knows why?!? Such a coincidence, isn't it?) So, no bad facts or wrongdoings made by her. They just speak badly of every normal action of a 20 year old girl, and they snigger and make fun of her for literally nothing... I can say that I clearly recognize the signs of a person psychologically abused by his family, ... a family already engaged in the smear campaign, evidently. My concern is that I myself have recently started my recovery paths, after decades of serious narcissistic abuse... And I really do not want to cause damage with some "risky" actions. My awareness of being very empathetic is now, eventually, going together with the awareness that I must be very balanced myself if I want to bring real psychological help to someone else. [ instead, if I want to do any other social activity without special psychological implications, it is ok to do practical activities, also with my cptsd ] Thanks for your support. Your idea of a contact via internet can be good... (and guess what? at the moment I live a few meters away from her. Strange situation indeed ... 🥴 )
I have a question. Is there anything a loving mother can do to reverse the brainwashing done to her historically loving son. He married into a narcissistic family and when the First grandchild was born, made it difficult for me to engage and see my grandchild due to pathological jealousy of her mother (the other grandmother). There is a family history of her being the “Queen Bee.” I am now estranged from my adult son and two small grandchildren since calling out their bullying and narcissistic behavior towards me. It has been an absolute devastating nightmare, literally hell on earth. Life-altering!!!! Help!!!!
Man dude this is it, unbound, my community rules, our Doctor shares, real hard stuff, yea buddy, i welcome his great efforts, this unbound, rules big time,
My ex and his father were like carbon copies of one another and uncannily made the exact motions in life. My children were adopted and have no genetic ties; however, my daughter has picked up on his ways. I look forward to the session.
I believe that when it comes to growing up in a family with an abuser, Some people will observe the perpetrator/ victim dynamic and decide they would rather be the perpetrator than the victim. They do not see that there is a third option of being a peaceful human with healthy boundaries.
From experience I realized that quite a bit of it (clearly more than 50%) is hard-wired. I know it is consistently mentioned that experiences have shaped these people into who they are, and I don’t doubt that’s a factor, but large part is innate. I wonder who many studies have been done along these lines?
Mine is a carbon copy mannerisms, behaviour, treatment of others😢 Fortunately I feel I am from a different Orchard and work on my weaknesses and try not to pass down any toxic traits to my own🤞
I got remarried to a childhood neighbor. His dad was a narc. My hubby has let his true colors show and he is his dad''s mini me. He had me fooled for years. I didn't want his dad for my life partner but in a way that is what I got. So yes, I think it is generational. Learned behavior.
That's a question that's been asked for ages. The world has many adult abusers who were abused as a child. In fact this has become a "defense tactic" in the courtroom...."oh poor little Jonny was abused as a child, it's no wonder he's a rapist/murderer/abuser". Bottom line they are RESPONSIBLE for their actions!
Looking at my grandfather, my mother, my sister, and my daughter. I've had people that have known me and that my family members for 50 yrs. My friends ask me how I escaped the madness and be relatively sane compared to the rest. I tell them I never wanted to be like them. I saw a better example from my friend and her family and so tried to be more like them than mine. Most of the time I did pretty good. I know there were times when I slid into the madness. I always tried to catch myself and stop and tried to walk away to cool off. I had such bad examples that it's amazing to me how I got through it all.
The title reminds me of when I joined a ski team that taught Junior Olympians.. I was not training for Olympics but I got along with the coaches.. When some angry parent wanted their kid to go first I would just let them.. It really wasn't a big deal..
I think maybe the predisposition come from the principle of concupiscence. How each reacts could be tendency or learned reward. I think most have the choice to correct their vice but their will must be strong and leaning toward growth no matter the fear or pain.
Concupiscence, to me, seems more broad brush stroke toward all natural (evil) inclinations, not just generational ones. I like the idea that this isn’t a feat accompli, where the next generation is doomed to it. Yourself being an example. In fact, I’d think escaping it from a parent shows great character.
@aaronkwolfe Interesting, I didn't think of concupiscence as an evil inclination as much as just a fallen state in which everyone has the same battle. Is that what you are saying. I guess I don't know if I understand generational curses fully.
Team Healthy, Please don't tempt me with theology because if I start... miles of posts will come out . [ youtube will probably block me, ok, but I may do a few miles of writings before the stop 😁 ] Then, if you even add _interconfessional_ Christian theology, well, the temptation is doubled. So, I'll just read what you write. I want to be a good girl 😇 😁
I have a sister who is a malignant narcissist… violent outbursts, triangulates, lies, steals, manipulates, controls, smear campaigns and all. We had parents that I considerer good parents. We were loved. Sure we got spankings (whippings) with a belt, but I didn’t consider it abuse but typical of that day. Our father recently passed away, and I have fond memories. My sister ironically says he was a narcissist. It makes my skin crawl to hear this. Of course she thinks nothing is wrong with her because she is always right. She’s meaner than a two headed snake. Nothing like my father. I’m so scared of my sister I won’t be alone with her. So how is it explained that one adult child turned out to be a malignant narcissist when parents were fine and other siblings are fine. It’s just her. I should also add she married a narcissist and is still married to him so maybe that’s the answer. She’s worse than him now.
@ for one thing, secretly got power of attorney of my elderly parent and made herself sole beneficiary on the accounts. The smear campaign that followed after she was confronted (gently) was a two and a half year nightmare. Violent and dangerous rage fits as well. Police had to be called at one point.
I'm not hearing anything about family roles here . I'm the Scapegoat and therefore empathetic etc, sister is golden child turned Narcissist. I always appreciate Dr C's wonderful insight and caring attitude though.
Dr. Carson is this right? If you, in a relationship with a nsrcissist, think about them all the time ""this thinking feeds addiction"?!!! Also, if you are living together, in live-in relationship, if you ask "Am i a narcissist? You are not one because you had to ask. The best thing to do is get away! Empaths are easy to ensare. It is not a happy relationship and won't last because have to elevate each other all the time.
I have a narcissistic parent that unfortunately passed his illness down to me, along with other family members. I am in no contact with him because the abuse will just continue, however we do talk a few times a year just to do a wellness check more than anything . Just keep in mind that there are not only people that have experience narcissistic abuse but also might either be narcissistic themselves or have experienced both abuse and have had npd passed down to them. Difference is I am doing something about it. Dr Carter not only gives me great insight into narcissism from a survivor standpoint but from also someone that has npd themselves. Most people do not change but some can and I am one of those. I say some of this because threw out the years I have seen some pretty judgemental comments about npd. Just remember, people that have received it did not ask for it just like someone do not ask for cancer. I just happened. I was completely unaware of any of it. It was always someone else's fault. I had zero self awareness. I was taught nothing about feeling nor were they acknowledged when I was a child. Hurt people hurt people.
I think without some modeling of love to learn from it can block someone from self loving and they have a lot of narcissistic traits. But do some people even as children just treat others as an outgroup - even their own parents, so they wont see expressions of love as anything but manipulations (because the parents are in an outgroup to the child). Maybe some people are just born with an inclination to treat everyone else as being in an outgroup, they never feel a connection to them.
Thank you for mentioning that bipolar disorder might run in a family. I’ve been looking at NPD, regarding my mother and sister, for the past few years. I was recently told, that an extended relative had been diagnosed with bipolar disorder. What little I know of how she presents, also shows as NPD, however. I “think” I’ve heard of the possible classification of bipolar being added to Cluster B, but am unsure. Either way and although my mother has passed, it may provide better insight, as to what happened to her (which might’ve been late onset bipolar).
My older brother turned into an exact duplicate of our narc father, and he also has absolutely NO analytical thinking skills. Although he likes to act like he knows everything. He doesn't, he's just an arrogant, narcissistic twit.
Very helpful. I heard on NPR recently that people with extraordinary empathy have different brain chemistry than others. Does Dr. C know anything about that?
Whenever I tried to talk things over with my Narc husband I would get yelled at. 'Why the H are you trying to figure me out'!? He thought anything I tried was Bull. His mother wrote our family a letter full of negative assumptions and accusations against our characters. None was true, but I recognized the same behavior in my husband in verbal form. Learned? Hereditary? Maybe both.
Are some narcissistic men created in a family that offered them too many goodies like a lot of cousins too many family gatherings and too much pride in their surnames?
Sometimes everyone in the family and extended family are narcissists because of their surroundings and culture. As an empath I’ve always been considered the strange one.
Dr. Carter, great video. On a level larger than the family, the level of the collective, the society - does narcissism run in societies? Is narcissism more prevalent in patriarchally organized society? Is there some correlation? If so would it then be less prevalent in a more egalitarian system? Can we see narcissism running along a spectrum in various cultures as in the more strictly patriarchal the more narcissism there is, and the more egalitarian a culture is the less narcissism we see? I would appreciate hearing some thoughts on this
I am curious if certain cultures and minority groups have a lot more narcissists than others, but wonder if it would be considered too taboo to talk about,
If a family is forced into survival mode because of housing and food insecurity along with repeated abuse and trauma, could that cause the members of that family to be more prone to narcissism as a means of survival?
Question: Can a formerly mildly covert passive-aggressive narcissist grow to become an overt malignant narcissist in late middle age? This seems to have happened to my oldest daughter now 52 yo. She's so bad now that the last time (about 9 months ago) I had to cut her off while we were texting, block her on all channels, and I haven't spoken to her since. At 75 I can not take the narcissistic outrage and garbage that she pours out, it upsets me so much I was afraid of giving myself a heart attack. Her younger brother (my son) at 44 yo last year turned psycho and killed her estranged husband and soon to be EX, who was a very nice and good person. The third child (now 42) is doing better than her older siblings, but just barely. She's BPD/NPD with ADHD. Have they all inherited different forms of narcissism??? What kind of hell is this???
Dr. Carter, do you think it's possible for an area (geographically wise) to be filled with a certain kind of narcissist? I love where I live but I have noticed that I have run into quite a few covert malignant narcissists here. Each experience has been horrible and put a damper on the joy I have in living where I do. The area I live in has a small town atmosphere is it and I have a theory that some narcissists like to stay in smaller towns where they are more likely to find it easier to gain supply being that it's not too hard to become well known and they don't have to deal with as much competition as they would in a bigger city. What do you think?
All narcissistic men have not been judged or shamed rather they received more love and affection from their own family but they treat their partners in a most cruel way t
Based on this certain model narc family - I have witnessed two generations personally, although first generation male 'Hitler-esq' from what l've heard. My opinion - although the environment is optimal for cultivating the behavior, I believe it's fabricated to be that way due to the genetic style of the family. I personally don't believe the true disorder is environmentally 'learned,' I think it goes deeper than that and is genetically manufactured.
I have observed in my life that "more is caught than taught" which is why parents pass their mentality down to the third and fourth generation. Occasionally someone in the family stands against the family model. I was not like my family, I hate all the arrogance and one-upmanship and competitiveness. My two brothers are just like my parents and have continued all our lives their contempt for me when I have done nothing unkind to them. They act mean but never say why they don't like me. Communication is foreign and even contemptible to the narcissist. My brothers are afraid of me and I think it is because they know how they have treated me and it has not worked to turn me into them. We are all in our 70's now and nothing has changed, I gave up a long time ago and removed myself, because of this the gossip ran amuk and they have managed to convince others something is wrong with me.
@gwendolynwehage6336 That's amazing. You still stood your ground and didn't become like them.
My sister was born evil. I truly believe that. She is a copy of my narc dad only worse since she is the only one he protects. I knew this even as a child. It is a reason why as a teen I decided never to have children because I was afraid to birth another demon. As an old woman and seeing the lives they have destroyed I do not regret my decision.
@001singularity Right! Good for you! I'm 69, with cancer, and a mother of one very messed up 27 y.o. daughter after being raised by my narc mother & marrying a narc man. You made the right decision. I devoted myself to her care, but his unrelenting absence & contempt over rode my best efforts. efforts
nothing is wrong with you, you are great
Yes sir, generational narcissism definitely exists in my family! I have a twin brother who is a malignant narcissist. He is quick to anger and he is the expert on everything and it's all about him. I have tried to stand by him our entire life and he doesn't appreciate it.. Dr. C you have helped me so much in dealing with people like this. I always check myself first before I gently separate myself from the toxic energy 😊
It’s so hard when it’s your sibling that’s a narcissist and I can imagine how hard being your twin. My sister is one and I considered her my best friend for decades despite the manipulation and drama she created. It has gotten severe now with age, even dangerous. I will have to cut ties permanently as soon as I’m able.
@@Cassiemom-1234I so hear you. I'm the oldest of 4 & was born alert & sweet. As a 2 y.o., I watched my mother Not pick up a newborn when crying. I've had a child & Know the primal instinct to comfort a crying baby. They are ignorant & stupid as far as comforting goes. I over corrected with my own.
@@debbievoss3496. Babies need to be responded to always. If they don’t need fed or changed you just let them fuss awhile, then check in again. It makes them secure if they can count on you.
I was raised by a narc and had kids with one. I was terrified that my kids would inhereit narcissism. Luckily they don't. The more I study and observe it, the more I'm convinced it's caused by bad parenting. The reason one sibling could get it but not others, comes down to intelligence and personality differences between them. The narc child idolizes the narc parent and thus mimics their behavior. I had to do a lot of work to heal and be intentional in my parenting to break generational curses.
It’s so transactional that kids sometimes side with the fun parent who uses bribery while not teaching them any values at all… just me, myself & I
I believe narcissism is inherited because in families that parent children with the same fairness and attention, some turn out narcissistic while others don't. There's definitely a "nurture" component of course too, but those normal parents who have 1 kid who is absolutely toxic and narcissistic get blamed by society for creating one when in reality they are no more responsible than having a kid with autism or schizoaffective disorder. These last ones were also deemed in the past were caused by "cold bad mothers'. Your kids lucked out. I have a sensitive kind son and an out of control borderline daughter. The daughter had more supports and therapy in her life than anyone I know and she's now out causing others so much grief,
My eldest certainly picked up where his father left off!
So sorry ❤
"Who am I?" is a great start. But the question "WHO DO I WANT TO BE?" is more important....
I came from an abusive, narcissistic family. I was definitely a person with strong, (learned), narcissistic behavior. Going no contact with my family of origin made a huge difference in my personal growth. I made a commitment to recognize my own narcissistic patterns and tackle it. And just because you don’t mismanage your dog’s training ( everyone does…NOT setting boundaries is just as abusive), doesn’t mean you don’t have room for improvement. Red flags always go off with people who think they are so warm, fuzzy and easy going. They are most likely, in my experience, to lose it in the face of adversity.
❤
All I know I am on team healthy, learning and growing.
Thank you Dr. Carter! You opened my eyes last year! I now know my husband is a narcissist and am in the process of divorce.
Best wishes to you moving forward!
You are an excellent educator!!! Thank you!!!!!!
I think there’s a learned aspect there, where a narcissistic parent doubles down on creating shame in a child that learns their “best” way of coping is control and self aggrandizing. And on it continues ….
I’ve reflected on my in-laws generational issues, and can see where a grandparent affects the nature of their child, who affects the nature of their own. That 3rd generation affects the 4th. I married into that 3rd generation, and am heartbroken over the effect on the 4th. Exodus 34:7, Numbers 14:18, and Deuteronomy 5:9 has caused me to learn all I can about great and great-great grandparents. I wanted to know what generational predispositions I should watch for.
@@aaronkwolfe 👋 👊 Let’s educate the young on what to watch for and what not to do. If I had a name for this type of personality growing up, my life would have been totally different. ☮️
@@aaronkwolfeAlso, Ezekiel 18:25-30 The Lord will judge each person to their own conduct and Dueteromony 24 v 16 Each person shall be put to death for their own sin.
I would think then that a generational curse as you say is a tempting to a particular sin or sinful nature of having been exposed to.
I have witnessed Toxic Folks made a TOXIC first born Son😮
Thank you Dr. Carter for so much work you put into helping us understand this personality disorder.
Well, this video left me with both encouragement, and confusion since you used a 50/50 answer on genetics and learned behavior. All I know is I'm worse at 62 than I was at 35. Gonna keep fighting to find out the root cause, and more importantly a game plan for reducing the wreckage of narcissism and possibly bipolar disorder, thank you for your insight
He once said it’s about a 60/40 split with the environment or nurture playing a trump role over temperament or inherent nature. Sibling placement also has a lot to do with because of birth order & only kids are at greater risk. The mental health of the mother or primary caregiver is always the deciding factor in a child’s mental health too
Hang in there.
Thanks Dr. Carter, I always appreciate your videos they are very informative and helpful! I don’t feel so alone and I’m one of so many other people struggling and suffering from living around and with these kinds of people! Love you Dr. Carter👍❤️🙏🏻
Thanks, Patricia. Love received, with gratitude.
Good idea. Check myself first! They are playing by the rules they expect from others. But they don"t expect of themselves like dropping in on you.
Always check YOURSELF.. They will try to catch you offguard. "Their thought process is disordered.". Don't come from the same place you/we do.
Thank you Dr. Carson.
It's so frustrating to deal with people who lack analytical thinking. In workplace settings, they always cause trouble, and then you have to fix it. 😖
The gentleman who has a horrible brother sounds EXACTLY like my family.
He is the only one who is a selfish bully. He is not invited to any family gatherings.
We all had the same inept parents, but of course, each kid has their own perspective of events and daily life.
The rest of us have worked on healing from the damage done individually and as a family. We are closer now than we have been for decades.
We operate with dignity, respect, and civility.
❤😊
My son sees a therapist as he knows he has some of his narcissistic father's traits. He says he doesn't want to be like him. Proud of him that he is doing something about it. My other son is just like his father but fails to see it.
I traced our maternal covert narcissism back a couple of centuries to famine Ireland. Along with the Catholic Church & its poor treatment of unwed mothers, this family dysfunction became normalized. I also was able to follow narcissistic personality disorder on my father’s side. It was German as well as French Protestant & there I found full blown overt narcissists. My grandmothers both didn’t want children even though married, but each produced one in their thirties. These kids then gravitated to each other like white on rice
In The Irela d Orphanges, many infants were thrown out of windows and left to die. You can find information about these Catholic orphanages online. So, numerous TRAUMA through generations.
An individual who has a narcissistic personality style lives to control others. To THEM, that control gives them power.
Wielding that power against the innocence of a child is as heartbreaking as it is unconscionable.
"Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." ~ Acton
True.
Truer still, in an individual who has a narcissistic personality style, once begun, the corruption self-perpetuates.
Stay Sharp. Stay Strong, and please...
Stay Healthy!!
So grateful for this video!!! I am completely baffled by who my older sister turned out to be, and she is so cold and dehumanizing that I can’t be around here. I can’t stand the haughty arrogance with which she treats others (and me!) and how she only cares about herself and who she can bribe to stay in her life. I can’t tell you what all having her as my sister has cost me in my life, and of course her perspective is “after everything I did for you?”
That sentence needs to read “after everything I did TO you?” to be accurate … to which my answer is, “Yep! And enough’s enough!” 😊❤
Good Mornibg Doctor Carter / family
Thank you Dr. Carter. My sad situation with my 90 year old narcissist father. I called it out and now I’m cut off. You are helping me to have peace as I told him it stops with me!
Having tweaked cortisol has a weird effect on emotions. I think it gets like smoking or drinking, it is comforting and familiar. Relatives continue to chase the 'high'!
My sister, our mother, my mother's father....That's as far back as I knew first hand. I always felt they were 'off My mother idolized her father but I felt I needed to avoid him, though I didn't know why. My mother became very abusive and my sister is like Mom on steroids. They get worse with each generation.
I KNOW FOR A FACT IT'S GENERATIONAL, I HAVE SEEN 4 GENERATIONS AFFECTED BY IT IN MY OWN FAMILY - I CAN TRACE IT BACK
I am convinced that the source of narcissism usually comes from a combination of genetics and upbringing. People who are genetically susceptible are taught from birth how to be narcissistic. It is often nearly impossible for these people to break free of this cobweb. I come from a generationally narcissistic family and was raised by a narcissistic mother. My mother was so broken that I never felt inclined to emulate her. I felt sad and scared by who she was. Ironically, her brokenness probably saved me. My cousins have wholeheartedly succumbed to the family genetics and instructions. I have parted ways with them. I cannot live like that. Thank God!
During the course of his professional life, Professor J. Philippe Rushton of the University of Western Ontario believed behavior is 50% genetic and 50% learned. But, near the end of his life he concluded behavior is 80% genetic and only 20% learned.
Great topic. Looking forward to listen!!
In the latest months I began to observe more _"widely"_ in my family. Meaning, my relatives and extended family / families.
To be honest 100%, ... after learning about narcissistic abuse and after becoming aware of my own personal condition, my very first "glance" (with the aid of this knowledge) was drawn by a young adult girl of my extended family... I could see her someway, only for a very short time, now and then, when I have re-entered In Contact with my family of origin (because of multiple manipulations I wasn't able to see)... so, In Contact, again, and tons of problems, after many years I was Low Contact living in another village. [Thank Heaven, this "In Contact again" situation brought me to the discovery of personality disorders and opened my eyes on the serious abuses ].
Long story short, the family of that girl (nearly 20 yo) is scapegoating her, I have no doubt. I've never heard a good word about her. Only bad criticism and mockery, and much more. A very strange case, so to speak, I can't even well understand the strange (very strange) behavior of my relatives when speaking about her. It's very strange first and foremost because my relatives (=her family) talk a bit _too much_ about her even to people who never see her! I mean, what the heck do you want to tell me about a person that I nearly never meet and nearly I don't know this person, except her name? [ to be precise, they rarely speak directly to me face to face, obviously I'm not exactly the person they want 😅!, but at home I can hear them talking to my narcissistic parents, and my parents know the girl as much as me. Meaning, they never see her as well ] .
I'm aware that in my current situation I can do nothing
(also because I don't want to risk worsening her position).
However, my point is, I want to heal, and not only for me. Also for other people. Also for her.
What to do, when and how to do it... Maybe one day I may ask a well written (ok short, not wordy) question for dr C.
You could reach out to the girl if she is there and say, "I'm sorry you are going through this, I had a tough time in my side of the family too". Or send her a friendly email not talking about anything just being her friend.
@sadderandwiser
Hi. Thank you for your reply.
To complete the picture; these relatives of mine criticize the girl with contempt for very normal facts...
I mean, the girl really lives a normal life
(and as far as I know she is in therapy with a psychologist. Oh well, who knows why?!? Such a coincidence, isn't it?) So, no bad facts or wrongdoings made by her. They just speak badly of every normal action of a 20 year old girl, and they snigger and make fun of her for literally nothing...
I can say that I clearly recognize the signs of a person psychologically abused by his family, ... a family already engaged in the smear campaign, evidently.
My concern is that I myself have recently started my recovery paths, after decades of serious narcissistic abuse... And I really do not want to cause damage with some "risky" actions.
My awareness of being very empathetic is now, eventually, going together with the awareness that I must be very balanced myself if I want to bring real psychological help to someone else.
[ instead, if I want to do any other social activity without special psychological implications, it is ok to do practical activities, also with my cptsd ]
Thanks for your support. Your idea of a contact via internet can be good...
(and guess what? at the moment I live a few meters away from her. Strange situation indeed ... 🥴 )
Gus has " got this already" nap time 💤 🐾❤️. Thanks Dr 💯⭐
That pretty much describes Gus' mindset!!!!
Gus & Dogs are advanced spirits here on earth to help us 😇🐾❤️
I have a question. Is there anything a loving mother can do to reverse the brainwashing done to her historically loving son. He married into a narcissistic family and when the First grandchild was born, made it difficult for me to engage and see my grandchild due to pathological jealousy of her mother (the other grandmother). There is a family history of her being the “Queen Bee.” I am now estranged from my adult son and two small grandchildren since calling out their bullying and narcissistic behavior towards me. It has been an absolute devastating nightmare, literally hell on earth. Life-altering!!!! Help!!!!
Sometimes there is nothing you can do except let go. Even God has to suffer the loss of children.
Same situation as you.
I'm sorry you're going through that. Here, you are supported.
Man dude this is it, unbound, my community rules, our Doctor shares, real hard stuff, yea buddy, i welcome his great efforts, this unbound, rules big time,
My brother threw his wife's cat against the wall so hard that it put a hole in the drywall. I wish I had called the authorities.
I see my daughter using the behavior of my narcissist husband 😢
My ex and his father were like carbon copies of one another and uncannily made the exact motions in life. My children were adopted and have no genetic ties; however, my daughter has picked up on his ways. I look forward to the session.
Good morning from New Zealand. I just missed this live, so listening on tape delay. 5.14am here. Sending thanks and love for unbound!
Good morning!
You mean Wednesday, Jan 15, right?
Italy here 5.20 pm
Tuesday Jan 14 🙂🙃
I believe that when it comes to growing up in a family with an abuser, Some people will observe the perpetrator/ victim dynamic and decide they would rather be the perpetrator than the victim. They do not see that there is a third option of being a peaceful human with healthy boundaries.
From experience I realized that quite a bit of it (clearly more than 50%) is hard-wired. I know it is consistently mentioned that experiences have shaped these people into who they are, and I don’t doubt that’s a factor, but large part is innate. I wonder who many studies have been done along these lines?
Mine is a carbon copy mannerisms, behaviour, treatment of others😢
Fortunately I feel I am from a different Orchard and work on my weaknesses and try not to pass down any toxic traits to my own🤞
I got remarried to a childhood neighbor. His dad was a narc. My hubby has let his true colors show and he is his dad''s mini me. He had me fooled for years. I didn't want his dad for my life partner but in a way that is what I got. So yes, I think it is generational. Learned behavior.
Much like alcoholism
Yes because the personality style is actually a coping mechanism of sorts
That's a question that's been asked for ages. The world has many adult abusers who were abused as a child. In fact this has become a "defense tactic" in the courtroom...."oh poor little Jonny was abused as a child, it's no wonder he's a rapist/murderer/abuser". Bottom line they are RESPONSIBLE for their actions!
Looking at my grandfather, my mother, my sister, and my daughter. I've had people that have known me and that my family members for 50 yrs. My friends ask me how I escaped the madness and be relatively sane compared to the rest. I tell them I never wanted to be like them. I saw a better example from my friend and her family and so tried to be more like them than mine. Most of the time I did pretty good. I know there were times when I slid into the madness. I always tried to catch myself and stop and tried to walk away to cool off. I had such bad examples that it's amazing to me how I got through it all.
The title reminds me of when I joined a ski team that taught Junior Olympians.. I was not training for Olympics but I got along with the coaches.. When some angry parent wanted their kid to go first I would just let them.. It really wasn't a big deal..
I think maybe the predisposition come from the principle of concupiscence. How each reacts could be tendency or learned reward. I think most have the choice to correct their vice but their will must be strong and leaning toward growth no matter the fear or pain.
Concupiscence, to me, seems more broad brush stroke toward all natural (evil) inclinations, not just generational ones. I like the idea that this isn’t a feat accompli, where the next generation is doomed to it. Yourself being an example. In fact, I’d think escaping it from a parent shows great character.
@aaronkwolfe Interesting, I didn't think of concupiscence as an evil inclination as much as just a fallen state in which everyone has the same battle. Is that what you are saying.
I guess I don't know if I understand generational curses fully.
Team Healthy,
Please
don't tempt me with theology because if I start... miles of posts will come out . [ youtube will probably block me, ok, but I may do a few miles of writings before the stop 😁 ]
Then, if you even add
_interconfessional_ Christian theology, well, the temptation is doubled.
So, I'll just read what you write. I want to be a good girl 😇 😁
@ Agreed, Lishmah. I’ve spent decades studying and refining theological preferences. This is a discussion better dealt with elsewhere.
@@lishmahlishmah 😄✨️
I have a sister who is a malignant narcissist… violent outbursts, triangulates, lies, steals, manipulates, controls, smear campaigns and all. We had parents that I considerer good parents. We were loved. Sure we got spankings (whippings) with a belt, but I didn’t consider it abuse but typical of that day. Our father recently passed away, and I have fond memories. My sister ironically says he was a narcissist. It makes my skin crawl to hear this. Of course she thinks nothing is wrong with her because she is always right. She’s meaner than a two headed snake. Nothing like my father. I’m so scared of my sister I won’t be alone with her.
So how is it explained that one adult child turned out to be a malignant narcissist when parents were fine and other siblings are fine. It’s just her. I should also add she married a narcissist and is still married to him so maybe that’s the answer. She’s worse than him now.
What's an example of what she has done?
@ for one thing, secretly got power of attorney of my elderly parent and made herself sole beneficiary on the accounts. The smear campaign that followed after she was confronted (gently) was a two and a half year nightmare. Violent and dangerous rage fits as well. Police had to be called at one point.
I'm not hearing anything about family roles here . I'm the Scapegoat and therefore empathetic etc, sister is golden child turned Narcissist. I always appreciate Dr C's wonderful insight and caring attitude though.
Dr. Carson is this right? If you, in a relationship with a nsrcissist, think about them all the time ""this thinking feeds addiction"?!!! Also, if you are living together, in live-in relationship, if you ask "Am i a narcissist? You are not one because you had to ask. The best thing to do is get away! Empaths are easy to ensare. It is not a happy relationship and won't last because have to elevate each other all the time.
I have a narcissistic parent that unfortunately passed his illness down to me, along with other family members. I am in no contact with him because the abuse will just continue, however we do talk a few times a year just to do a wellness check more than anything . Just keep in mind that there are not only people that have experience narcissistic abuse but also might either be narcissistic themselves or have experienced both abuse and have had npd passed down to them. Difference is I am doing something about it. Dr Carter not only gives me great insight into narcissism from a survivor standpoint but from also someone that has npd themselves. Most people do not change but some can and I am one of those. I say some of this because threw out the years I have seen some pretty judgemental comments about npd. Just remember, people that have received it did not ask for it just like someone do not ask for cancer. I just happened. I was completely unaware of any of it. It was always someone else's fault. I had zero self awareness. I was taught nothing about feeling nor were they acknowledged when I was a child. Hurt people hurt people.
I think without some modeling of love to learn from it can block someone from self loving and they have a lot of narcissistic traits. But do some people even as children just treat others as an outgroup - even their own parents, so they wont see expressions of love as anything but manipulations (because the parents are in an outgroup to the child). Maybe some people are just born with an inclination to treat everyone else as being in an outgroup, they never feel a connection to them.
That's food for thought 🤔
Thank you for mentioning that bipolar disorder might run in a family.
I’ve been looking at NPD, regarding my mother and sister, for the past few years. I was recently told, that an extended relative had been diagnosed with bipolar disorder. What little I know of how she presents, also shows as NPD, however. I “think” I’ve heard of the possible classification of bipolar being added to Cluster B, but am unsure. Either way and although my mother has passed, it may provide better insight, as to what happened to her (which might’ve been late onset bipolar).
My older brother turned into an exact duplicate of our narc father, and he also has absolutely NO analytical thinking skills. Although he likes to act like he knows everything. He doesn't, he's just an arrogant, narcissistic twit.
Yes, there seems to be an inherited tendency to those behaviours. But narcissistic parents compound and reinforce them by not setting boundaries.
Very helpful. I heard on NPR recently that people with extraordinary empathy have different brain chemistry than others. Does Dr. C know anything about that?
I think it is. My ex husband & my daughter
Same...both cold blooded, cruel, uncaring, self absorbed entities.
Whenever I tried to talk things over with my Narc husband I would get yelled at. 'Why the H are you trying to figure me out'!? He thought anything I tried was Bull. His mother wrote our family a letter full of negative assumptions and accusations against our characters. None was true, but I recognized the same behavior in my husband in verbal form. Learned? Hereditary? Maybe both.
Are some narcissistic men created in a family that offered them too many goodies like a lot of cousins too many family gatherings and too much pride in their surnames?
Hi Dr C. Would you be able to do a video on narcissistic parents and dealing with them please?
Sometimes everyone in the family and extended family are narcissists because of their surroundings and culture. As an empath I’ve always been considered the strange one.
The ole nature vs nurture!!
Dr. Carter, great video. On a level larger than the family, the level of the collective, the society - does narcissism run in societies? Is narcissism more prevalent in patriarchally organized society? Is there some correlation? If so would it then be less prevalent in a more egalitarian system? Can we see narcissism running along a spectrum in various cultures as in the more strictly patriarchal the more narcissism there is, and the more egalitarian a culture is the less narcissism we see? I would appreciate hearing some thoughts on this
I think it could be.
Retiring this year, $82K biweekly, this video reminds me of my life in 2023, you have really inspired me in so many ways!!!!!💜
I am curious if certain cultures and minority groups have a lot more narcissists than others, but wonder if it would be considered too taboo to talk about,
If a family is forced into survival mode because of housing and food insecurity along with repeated abuse and trauma, could that cause the members of that family to be more prone to narcissism as a means of survival?
Isn’t “Unbound” released on Wednesdays and Saturdays?
Yup. Appears to be a scheduling glitch. But, oh, well.
if I'm not mistaken, dr C said in some comment section that Unbound will be released 2 times a week for sure, and sometimes even 3 episodes per week
@ I’ll take what I can get.
Yes...I've had so many Q's I threw in an extra one this week. It'll probably happen again!
Lishmah hit the nail on the head. I already have so many questions lined up, I added an extra one this week.
Yes!
IT IS!!!!!!
Central Time Zone- Nortb America: fwiw: sending an enormous hug 🤗 to Puppy 🐶 Gus/ Congratulations 🎉/ San Angelo- SJT
For the record- thank you 😊 Doctor Carter, Ph.D.; again: thank you 😊; Greetings
Thanks, Michelle!!
Question: Can a formerly mildly covert passive-aggressive narcissist grow to become an overt malignant narcissist in late middle age?
This seems to have happened to my oldest daughter now 52 yo. She's so bad now that the last time (about 9 months ago) I had to cut her off while we were texting, block her on all channels, and I haven't spoken to her since. At 75 I can not take the narcissistic outrage and garbage that she pours out, it upsets me so much I was afraid of giving myself a heart attack. Her younger brother (my son) at 44 yo last year turned psycho and killed her estranged husband and soon to be EX, who was a very nice and good person. The third child (now 42) is doing better than her older siblings, but just barely. She's BPD/NPD with ADHD. Have they all inherited different forms of narcissism??? What kind of hell is this???
When you say you have a narcissist in your heritage, does anyone look at you askance? Like, "Oh noo. One of those." I sigh and give people space.
It is a taught disorder not genetic design.
It's programming your insular cortex improperly.
💯
Can this have to do with the position of the child in the family? First born, youngest etc.?
Psychological laziness getting passed on; 😢
Dr. Carter, do you think it's possible for an area (geographically wise) to be filled with a certain kind of narcissist? I love where I live but I have noticed that I have run into quite a few covert malignant narcissists here. Each experience has been horrible and put a damper on the joy I have in living where I do.
The area I live in has a small town atmosphere is it and I have a theory that some narcissists like to stay in smaller towns where they are more likely to find it easier to gain supply being that it's not too hard to become well known and they don't have to deal with as much competition as they would in a bigger city.
What do you think?
I wonder if LBJ was a narcissist?
Do you find trend in families with a lot of kids? We were 10.
All narcissistic men have not been judged or shamed rather they received more love and affection from their own family but they treat their partners in a most cruel way
t
I am too lazy to be a narcissist ;) I don't want to wonder what people think of me, I don't care
Based on this certain model narc family - I have witnessed two generations personally, although first generation male 'Hitler-esq' from what l've heard. My opinion - although the environment is optimal for cultivating the behavior, I believe it's fabricated to be that way due to the genetic style of the family. I personally don't believe the true disorder is environmentally 'learned,' I think it goes deeper than that and is genetically manufactured.
Why take the time for an objective analysis when you know full well you're going to find countervailing evidence of your supposed godhood?
I believe in free will so no
Yes. I can see four generations of it in my abusers family. Monkey see monkey do
🙏