The VERY Messed Up Origins of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
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- Опубліковано 13 тра 2024
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▼ Timestamps ▼
» 0:00 - A New Age of Wonka
» 1:27 - Book vs. Movies
» 4:10 - Act 1
» 12:33 - FIELD TRIP!
» 13:31 - Act 2
» 29:48 - Act 3
» 36:29 - Charlie’s Chocolate Boy
» 42:19 - Charlie and the Chocolate F****ry
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▼ Credits ▼
» Edited by: Jon Solo & Lauren Solo
» Written & Directed by: Jon Solo
▼ Resources ▼
» my favorites: messeduporigins.com/books
» Charlie's Chocolate Boy: www.nytimes.com/2017/09/22/bo...
» Roald Dahl's Widow says 'Charlie and the Chocolate Factory' Hero was Supposed to be Black - www.nytimes.com/2017/09/15/bo...
» The Rewriting of Roald Dahl: www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023...
» Roald Dahl's Warning to Publishers: www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023...
Edit: It seems like certain individuals are choosing to get personally offended at my critiques of Burton's Wonka movie and deliberately ignoring the numerous positive things I praised it for. GUYS... the movie is FINE and if it's your favorite of the two that's great! I am personally not a fan, so watching it 5+ times in the process of writing this episode was a bit of a slog so I incorporated a few jokes about it into the presentation. If it means that much to you, I'm deeply sorry for making fun of Johnny Depp's hair. Can we be friends again? 💜
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Have fun!! Take stories!
Jon, can you please do a video on the VERY messed up origins of the wizard of oz?
I can't go, I have school. Have fun!
Please do Treasure Island
You should see the Tom and Jerry version.
If I went into a museum and started painting tops over the exposed breast of classic painting and sculptures, I would be arrested. These people changing books and stories from the past are no different. We should not force our current morals on works of the past, or we erase our ability to see both our growth and, at times, our mistakes.
Too right. I read the Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn books at school. We don’t have to agree with the negative sentiments expressed by some of the characters in the book, but we can learn from the past
@@patricianunes3521 I think it's important to not change them. It shows how the times have changed and what we've improved upon or hadn't improved. It even shows us what has stayed the same. Changing them really limits the learning we do with books. Instead, there's nothing to learn.
@@xladyfayre Totally agree.
I agree with you, but I'll note that in the past, many works of art were censored (e.g., fig leaves added to cover genitalia).
But the original works are still accessible. By your analogy, what's actually happening is that people are making a new version of the artwork that originally had no top, and because they recognise that some people will be really upset by the artwork having no top they're giving it a top so it'll be accessible to everyone - not just the people who don't feel troubled by seeing an artwork without a top. Meanwhile the people who want to see the artwork without a top on can still see it, and probably get a bit of extra enjoyment out of thinking they're better than other people because they prefer the edgy original, because it's still there. It hasn't gone anywhere, because the thing being adjusted isn't the original work.
Fun fact: in the first movie, none of the actors had seen the chocolate room set before shooting, so their expressions are 100% genuine, as it was their first time seeing it.
You know what, that fact was fun. Thank you for using it correctly 🙂
Id love to check where you found this out? Considering thats what i do, iv never heard of an actor ever see a set while shooting for the first time. How it works is they come into the set, theres a private blocking, where they practice there lines, there marks, which is where they stop and walk to for camera to measure and mark how there focus is lined up with the cameras there acting for. Then theres public blocking where the whole crew of 100+ returns thrn they act it out for us so we know where to set up lights and move furniture. Then when thats all set up they return and we shoot everyhing practiced prior, thats how it works for every scene shot in film. Anyways let me know, thanks.
It’s funny but I somehow knew this I had to of read it a long time ago I just can’t remember where 😂 seeing your comment brought back the memory of reading it somewhere I think it was one of those articles that say funny facts about movies you didn’t know
@@impactdrifter its "THEIR" ffs 😅
@@SpydersByte Right?!?
"...the offended always forget they have the option not to partake." Truer words were never spoken. Well spoken Jon!
The problem is getting said offended people to listen!
It seems to kinda be a hobby of their's. Or sport, who can fake the most offended. Sort of a religion, but actually Cult is better description.
I think the little gate that did stop the father from saving his daughter, is a pretty accurate metaphor for this kind of parents.
They will give their children everything they don't want and need but no love. Wouldn't save them from predators etc.
I think it's a great scene.
I do too. I think it is actually meant for us to get to this conclusion: he'll pay any money so she won't whine and bother him, but will not break a sweat to save her, as her disappearing, in a sense is as good as paying for things that will make her quiet and unnoticeable...
Well, I think if he DID climb over the gate, then the squirrels would have attacked him too. Possibly, I think he was just paralyzed with fear, and all he could do was watch in horror.
He had no guts..... Just money.
@@lex_one-two Indeed.
I was thinking the same and it could well have been purposefully filmed that way by Burton to demonstrate that very point.
I think Grandpa Joe was mad depressed and Charlie was his only joy. So when Charlie got the last ticket it gave him something to live for, at least for a little bit.
I really like this interpretation
Maybe, but I never liked the 4 old people draining the family's resources and not even trying to help.
@@skaervan
I'm British. I would imagine that in a climate even harsher and further north than the one I'm used to, everyone was expected to pull their weight as far as possible.
@@harpo345 Me and my friends used to joke about it; Can't get off his ass until there's free candy. Made the movie funnier.
But he never even seemed interested in the candy, just having Charlie win the golden ticket. Actually, he seemed to care more about his Grandson's happiness than anything else. To each his own interpretation...@@theguybehindyou4762
I will say this about the squirrel gate: I always interpreted this as the father not being one for taking action or putting himself in harm’s way because he’s used to throwing money at his problems. While likely concerned for Varuca, he wasn’t brave enough to jump that little gate and face the dozens of trained squirrels.
That’s the way I saw it as well!
That's also the way I saw it. It even shows him hesitate to reach down the hole and grab her as he looks at everyone else searching for someone else to do it for him. I think it also demonstrates the parents who show their care and worry for their children on the outside but inside they would rather that someone else would do all that for them. There are just so many ways to interpret that scene which is why I loved that scene so much.
I thought Tiny Squirrel Gate showed how ineffective, cowardly and weak his character was. I've always thought it was really obvious too. XD
But in the original he got sent down the golden Goose rotten egg hatch like varuca also.. so weird they showed him scared to help in the new film...
@@kristinacoughlin1063 yep, as soon as original mr salt realized the garbage chute went to the furnace he didn't even hesitate to jump head-first down the hole with his daughter. slightly better father than burton's mr salt but he still sucks
The fact that Veruca's father is incapable and powerless to intervene for her is THE WHOLE POINT. Her father's character totally explains how Veruca got that way.
He puts his nose in the air and smells the chocolate from the factory, I do the same thing when I walk past my local dispensary 💀😂 you earned a sub for that
Used to be a giant Nabisco factory nearby, far enough to not smell it all the time and going by was always a treat. Now its closed, of course.
Bimbo Bread factory where I'm from 😊. Mmmmmmm....
I know right?😂
@@user-zt1gl6px7isame! Not in my town but about 20 min away lol
Facts haha I liked it immediately after he said that😭
23:23 Fun fact! In the Wilder version when he started singing, the actors actually had no idea that he was going to start singing. So their look of confusion and slight terror is real.
That’s hilarious! Gene Wilder, what a gem. It’s one of my very favourite scenes
😂
I love the book, but I think the movie is way better because of the actors and of course the genuine feeling.
When I read the book as a child or watched the 1970’s version I never got the impression that Grandpa Joe was a scumbag, or deadbeat, but an older man suffering from bad depression from living a life of hardship and seeing 2 generations after him having to go through the same problems without any hope. And Charlie finding the golden ticket was what lifted him out of it.
This is what I saw as well.
That is likely the intended interpretation, it just doesn't really feel like that's the case in the movies, lol
Maybe I interpreted it correctly as a child because I was growing up in similar circumstances minus the grandparents living with us.
Grandpa just had no purpose in life anymore.
He totally bothered me. Even as a kid I saw him as being selfish.
As someone with major mobility issues due to an injury, i can relate to grandpa. We went on a cruise last year, and although painful, I was much more active fueled by excitement
Glad you had a good time even with a injury
The "knife man" is not really strange, he's a "tinker" they were quite common in the previous century, particularly in Europe. They would sharpen and sell knives and fix items.
Imagine having a man with a cart of knives knock on your door. And tinkers were considered some of the lowest of the classes of people thus the saying "I could give a tinkers cuss!" Meaning the lowest type of expression
There's that chapter in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory where Charlie exerts himself as little as possible because he realizes he (and his family) are starving to death.
Seriously. I read that book when I was 10 and I had never read anything that disturbing before. It kind of blew my little mind.
As a kid who grew up pretty poor - I identified with Charlie - but also used his level of poverty as a bit of a leveling metric for my own. Well at least I have something other than cabbage soup every night for dinner. We’ll at least my grandparents live in their own house etc 🤣
I agree totally
it was this book that taught me dont waste food,
My dad got this far and wouldnt read the rest of the book to me, because in his childhood he was under occupation in Guernsey and this was a little to real.
I can relate.
Fun fact, the reason that the guests reaction seems so genuine when they enter the chocolate room in the 1971 version is because it is. They didn't allow the actors to see the set until they were ready to film that shot. So, you are seeing their genuine reaction to seeing the set for the first time.
That's not true, I was there
Dang how old or you now? @@GeneralLou
Same with the trip and roll in the beginning.
While this is widely thought, most have since come clean and said that they did peek 🙂
Whoa! Awesome trivia nugget! Thanks for sharing
Nothing was more magical to me than Gene Wilder and being born in 1971 I don't know how many times I sat in front of the TV year after year glued to the most unique movie I've ever seen !
Gene Wilder played some of the most memorable characters. I loved the Frisco Kid especially.
33:50 I think Wonka tells Charlie that the button has never been pressed to add an element of wonder and curiosity for Charlie , rather than him never having used it before
One look at the video length, and you already know Jon was cooking with this one 🍫
I saw it uploaded 45 seconds ago. And there was already one view. The worlds' amazing 🤩
I honestly did not even notice. Was cooking dinner then eating as it played and until I saw your comment I wouldn't have. That's how great a storyteller Jon is.
I didn’t even notice until this comment 😅
The man cooked. 🔥 I didn't know a lot of these facts, even after being a fan of the first 2 movies. Looking forward to more meals. 😋
Right! That peeked my interest as well.
For me, Gene Wilder absolutely smashes his performance. As a child I totally believed he was really Willy Wonka!
I remember the first time I saw a Wonka bar in the store. I told my mom, "See! He is real!"
I love his opening scene when he pretends to need a cane and falls over to say hello to the crowd. Never gets old. RIP Gene ❤
@@crystinamarie1he came up with the idea and apparently it was so important it became a condition of him accepting the role.
@@dj_aj908 it's so iconic.
Probably cause he was
I always thought grandpa Joe's recovery was a miracle made for being happy for his grandson winning the ticket.
I am 42 years old, and have loved Dahl since the first time i read his book, James and the Giant Peach, in 3rd grade. As soon as I had finished that book, I went in search of anything else he had written, leading me to Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. I now own every one of his books. I read each one to my husband while traveling with him when he was an over the road truck driver. His favorite is Danny Champion of the World. Dahls life story is one of his own amazing adventures! When i heard the news that they were to edit his work, i was completely heart broken. And I was thankful I already owned my own copies. My daughter grew up on these stories. It never fazed her in one small amount. She found them just as fun and entertaining as I did. And when I think of Dahl and his works, I only find joy. And really, I dont understand people who wanted to change his work. He meant no harm in his words, and they know that. But, for a little publicity, I guess people will say whatever they want to get attention.
To be fair, Wonka doesn't screw Charlie out of the prize at the end; he clearly violated the terms of the contract by drinking fizzy lifting drinks, a mistake very similar to that committed by the other 4 kids. He does deserve the prize at the end as a result of not being vindictive over the disqualification and surrendering the gobstopper, but it only serves to affirm a part of his character that was called into question by his earlier actions.
Preach
Needing a girlfriend huh timbo
It was a bit of an odd decision though. The movie was made to promote sales of chocolate and the script isn't perfect. It was really the music and Gene Wilder's whimsical performance that turned a movie that flopped at the box office into a cult classic. The script have issues and the budget was really low even for the time (in today's money it cost 20 million dollars).
But it is a musical with great music, no one can take that from it. Burton's movie is a lot closer to the book though (but Depp's weird style and somewhat strange performance doesn't exactly help it).
And that's the younger generations version of reality. 🤦♀️
@@allend5399 My last two girlfriends were a librarian and an English teacher, if anything they made me more of a media analyst. 🤣
Also notice how each time a kid goes missing, theres only enough room on the ship for those who remain, meaning wonka knew when a character would disappear.
Wow.. I never actually thought about that . How funny!.. lol
Yeah the whole thing was planned from the beginning. I saw the video matpat did and it makes so much more sense now.
he knew they would dissapear b/c he took them to rooms that catered to their specific vices. he told Charlie that he was just lucky to be there lol.
Each room was set up in the original movie for each kid. Slugworth was the culprit to send them to the after life as willy Wonka is a bad wizard or he's the devil. The kids had gobstoppers before being on the boat which was their token to be ferried over to purgatory and work your way outta pandoras box. You can't go back to get out you have to move forward and the oopma loompas are little demons in disguise and when you die their they sing in sync so you're in hell.
Every room was made to test each individual to see how Evil they REALLY were lol
" I do the same thing, when I'm passing by my local dispensary" 😂
The intentions behind the publication/production of this book/movie is far deeper than most people realize
The performance wilder gives in the tunnel is absolutely unforgettable.
@@sepulchral. Was it? I mostly saw it as a fun change up to things and then they show "the bad guy" and call him out. I mean, they're just bugs. And if you didn't know nature was all about things killing other things by the time you were sentient, that seems more disturbing.
@@sepulchral. *you're
I love the social satire in the first half of the 1971 film, especially the cop show spoof about the woman who has to give up her Wonka bars to save her husband. Comedy is always at its funniest when you mix (somewhat) serious stuff in with it.
As a kid, I found the first half of the movie to be boring, but as an adult, it is perhaps my favorite part; the woman who needs to give up her case of Wonka bars to save her husband, the scientist using the computer to find the location of a golden ticket (and failing), the auction, the classroom scenes, that guy from Paraguay who made the fake ticket, all great.
EDIT: I forgot that guy on the therapist's coach being pressured by his counselor to reveal where he found the golden ticket in his dream LOL.
@@bigtimetimmyjim6486 Same, I found a lot of the beginning of the 71 version boring as a kid, and being so young, most of the jokes between the adults flew over my head, lol. I do remember thinking that nearly every single adult in the film (with the exception of Charlie's family) were unnecessarily mean, but as an adult I realized that is intentional and now the first half is probably my favorite. The scene with the scientist and his computer cracks me up especially when he angrily says "I'm now telling the machine exactly what it can do with a golden ticket!! " or something along those lines lol
I grew up with Dahl's stories and Charlie and the Chocolate Factory was my favorite, and I loved the Gene Wilder version in the movies. With two young grandsons (age one and four), when I heard that the books were going to be "sanitized" and changed my wife and I quickly bought his entire works to get them before any changes, so our grandkids would be able to read the same versions we did. Oh, and we saw "Wonka" on opening night and it was truly a delightful prequel to Wilder's version of the character.
This will always be my favorite book. I read it as a child and, when Charlie realized he had the Golden Ticket, my imagination exploded with pictures. I'll never forget that. I've been an avid reader my whole life as a result.
"It's all there, black and white, clear as crystal! You stole fizzy lifting drinks. You bumped into the ceiling which now has to be washed, and sterilized, so you get nothing! You lose! Good day sir!"
Oompa Loompas are orange and green because Mel Stuart improvised it on the spot when asked to change their skin color. He mentioned this in his book called Pure Imagination.
So this decision was made before Dahl had changed them in the book? If so, that would explain the difference between the movie and the revised version.
@@KasumiKenshirou yes
Main thing I remember from reading these books as a kid is that the sequels are even more of a fever dream than the first one. Part of me still thinks I made up Charlie and the Great Glass Elevator
Worth a mention. Though Deep Roy was born in Nairobi, he is of Indian descent and British nationality.
There’s a short series on Netflix that depicts four of Dahl’s short stories directed by Wes Anderson and it’s beautiful but also definitely highlights how weird some of Dahl’s works could be
I loved these shorts. I grew up reading the swan about a million times and seeing it be put on a screen as such a faithful adaptation was amazing. The final shot, though not book-accurate, was haunting
Honestly… Wes Anderson is the perfect director for Dahl’s stories. They’re both weird in exactly the same way. I bet Dahl would have LOVED Wes.
Please state the name of the series.....
@@markbills4122 they are offered as individual shorts so are not grouped as usual.. but the stories featured are Poison, the Swan, the wonderful story of Henry Sugar, and The Rat Catcher
@@PariahQuailagreed and to me I think Tim Burton did a good job for Charlie and the chocolate factory but Wes Anderson was great for fantastic Mr fox.
Two interesting facts about Gene Wilder's acting. It was his idea to walk limping with the cane up to the gate and to fall forward and flip to the gate. Several lines Gene Wilder said in the movie were out of impulse at the time, namely "Candy is Dandy, but Liquor is Quicker."
Yes we know
@@interestings7866 I didn't know, but it sounds like something he would do. Gene Wilder was amazingly talented and funny. Young Frankenstein is my favorite comedy, and therefore one of my favorite films. I saw the Wonka film as a child and frankly I found parts of it frightening, especially the boat ride, buy also the unpredictability of the Wonka character. Think it has to do with my childhood that set off warning bells "unsafe/unreliable adult". I also did not fully understand that some of the punished children weren't dead. I'm an HSP though, highly sensitive personality.
@@lynninpainThe walking with a limp/falling bit was actually Wilder wanting to show Wonka As untrustworthy, as his first appearance is one of deceit but played for laughs, I Loved his Wonka a lot
Wilder's Wonka compares to Heath Ledger's Joker imho. Both great performances and a bit psycho. Lol.
Candy is dandy, but liquor is quicker.” is legendary
At 7:41 the boy in the red shirt in the Gene Wilder version is Peter Stuart, son of director Mel Stuart. The charracter the boy portrays is named Winkleman. In the 2023 Wonka, an actress named Sophie Winklemann portrays the Countess. What a coincidence!
The gobstobbers in the Wilder version were made of WOOD.
I grew up reading Dahls books. I dont think I’d have the crazy wide imagination i have if it wasn’t for him. Definitely played a huge role in my childhood.
The videos bs
Yea same this video is very much bs
@silencedlamb__ The thumbnail lets you believe that the story is more messed up than it is, which isn't the case. so I am right in my assumption if that makes sense
@silencedlamb__ But overall, the videos clickbait
There's nothing wrong with exploring the book's original depiction of the Loompas. These are exactly the conversations that we need to have instead of pretending events never happened.
I have a second print of the book and seeing the drawings of the original loompas is like whhaaattt.
Ofcours a white man would say that
Exactly. Context and understanding that things have changed for the better.
I feel like most black ppl would be the first to find it funny
Soooooooo people were upset because they were black, he makes them white and the seething stops.
Interesting, so we're dwarves, cavemen, leprechauns AND oompa loompas and don't complain.
You're right, we shouldn't pretend this doesn't happen.
I love the replacement of "acto" with "****". You hit the nail on the head. Also while i enjoyed the movies that already cane out i would love to see a movie version of the original story
We know the book is set in the UK. The reason is because of the coin Charlie finds that allows him to buy the chocolate bars that contain the golden ticket. The book clearly states that this coin was a 50p piece. That places the story squarely in the UK.
I think the book was written before decimalisation so that's probably a later edit.
@@lucasoheyze4597 Possibly but there's also the matter of the change he got, all British coins. The shop keeper saying he'll get a "Stomach Ache" if he ate it so fast. That's a very British thing to say. The fact Dahl was a resident of the UK means he'd naturally place the story there. If they edited it to post-decimalization British coin names, then the previous pre-decimalization coin names would have still been British so the editing is actually irrelevant. In the sequel, where the US President asks what aliens eat, his aid says "Mars Bars", a confection that would have been unknown in the US again demonstrating that Dahl's mind was firmly rooted in Britain even when writing about another country. The illustrations in the sequel clearly show an outline of the British Isles when the Great Glass Elevator is zooming into space from the factory. I could go on and on, but there are literally dozens of things that Dahl wrote and publishers included that categorically place the story in the UK.
I think the fact that the father did not make an effort to rescue his daughter even though there was a small barrier was a fitting metaphor. Because when you have money and resources and only offer your child money and resources doesn’t take any effort. But adjusting your life to put your child/ family first is a huge adjustment. So the fact that he did not make any effort to save her is fitting for the amount of effort he made to raise her. I think the kids and their bad behavior was also reflected in how they were raised. So both parents and children needed to make adjustments
" the kids and their bad behavior was also reflected in how they were raised"
Some people are the productive of their environment and upbringing.
I was think the same thing. His solution to everything in life is to toss money at it and in this one situation where he needs to take real action to save his daughter, he's completely stumped
...and then he tumbled in after her, because he had no other resources to "spend"
Ya, nah, it takes a fuckload of effort to make the money that gives the child a good life. This is just mindless Father shaming and mother coddling.
@@hughmungus431Father shaming??? Mother coddling??? Where??? ALL parents in this film (safe for Charlie's) are shown to be bad and the reason their children are narcissistic selfish pricks. There is no gender divide.
Absolutely nothing is stopping a parent from pre-reading a book
and highlighting the parts they don't like.
My only childhood experience of Roald Dahl was Danny the Champion of the World. I relatively recently found out he wrote all his more well-known books, despite Charlie and the Chocolate Factory being one of my favourite movies as a kid lmao
im so highly against "editing" books... no matter how "bad" ppl may think it is, its history in a way and they are changing it. to me thats just wrong
I actually like the idea of the "honesty test" added to give Charlie a little more protagonist feel. When faced with the choice of getting his family some much needed money in a dishonest way or doing the right thing to continue living in poverty, he chooses the right thing, a huge character moment and one thay cements Charlie as the undeniable hero of the story.
The problem I had with it, is that in the book it said he didn't let anyone into the factory after he reopened it, so to have someone work for him and go outside broke that idea, how did he know this person was loyal?
@revengenerd1 i always interpreted it as either a very close friend or someone who came along later and PROVED his loyalty somehow. But you aint wrong either
Especially since his act of honesty was immediately after being told he lost and would be receiving no reward.
Nothing material would be gained from that act, which Wonka recognized as Charlie's true nature. Hence the 180.
You’ll understand the three foot gate when you’re older.
Did we forget the 1971 version? Joe didn't want to get out of bed. Joe didn't want to go to the factory. Charlie pulled Joe's legs out and made him get up.
I love how in the old movie, the abandoned factory had this creepy vibe. Every abandoned building/factory with smoke stacks I see still makes me think of Wonka's factory
and I thought it was just me.
Wait I'm not sure a bustling factory with hundreds of workers and a crazy inventor living inside qualifies as "abandoned".
Still I know what you mean, it looks desolate from the outside.
Gene Wilder was so good. His subtle humor was truly unmatched. One of my favorite actors of all time.
I'm so happy to have found your videos again. I've always enjoyed your edgy storytelling. Keep up the Awesome work 😊
Simple answer to the oompa loompas colours. 1970s bud, Everything was orange, green and brown for some reason
BTW, hate to be that guy, but the boat visuals is a millipede, not a centipede. The more you know :)
My general characterization of all of the Roald Dahl stories is: They're horror stories for kids. The notion that they're all rooted in his own childhood trauma is fitting, but kinda sad.
The thing in the 71 version that unnerved me as a 5 year old was the trauma of seeing a kid sucked into a pipe believing it was to his death.
Grimms' Fairy Tales were also "horror stories for kids" but they also offered important lessons on life.
Read Boy and War, and you can see the threads for his stories
Wait until you hear about Krampus.
James and the Giant Peach.
Great story.
Gene Wilder's Willy Wonka feels so much more comforting and believably fond of children. It just feels like a hug. Depp's Wonka feels alien and cold.
Really? I always felt they were both mentally unstable 😅
They both seem like creepy pedos, that's what a guy like that in real life would be
I think we watched different movies, because Gene's Wonka always seemed like he'd have zero problems with child murder. Depp's Wonka was kind of the same but with a touch of confusion like he'd also never actually seen a child in real life before.
Well.. the reason Depp's Wonka is so weird and socially inept.. is because that's how Wonka is.
Lmao that's not true about him at all. Someone who nonchalantly jokes about children possibly dying is NOT a caring person
Informative and delightful presentation. Thank you for putting it together with such excellence!
As a child, watching Willy Wonka, the scene with Grandpa Joe jumping out of bed, was never anything but him making a sudden and miraculous recovery because of his excitement and joy for Charlie. I don’t think I ever heard about the theory that he was faking his invalidity.
Righto. It's just a story.❤
@@BerryBerry1465 sorry my comment offended you
@@StixFerryMan No worries. I wasn't offended. Actually, I agree with you and never made it out to be anything but excitement or perhaps a magical thing that happened in a fictional story.
I have a theory/opinion about Grandpa Joe. I believe it's a mixture of depression and Munchausen. Think about it the depression comes from losing his beloved job and the Munchausen comes from his family constantly telling him he is to old and fragile to get out of bed..everyone but Charlie that is. When Charlie finds the golden ticket 2 things happen Charlie the one person that doesn't make Joe feel old and fragile wants him to go and 2 he wants him to go visit the one place aka old job that brought grandpa Joe happiness..to me it makes sense that he was able to get out of bed atm ..but that's just me🤷🏽♀️
Honestly that’s not a bad theory.
Not a bad theory, true, but this is a book meant for young kids, not teens, & the likelihood they know anything about those mental conditions is so tiny. So it would be really hard for them to get that analogy.
@tamarasmith9060 it's mostly adults that are upset that Joe was "faking" so the theory is in reference to that
@@tamarasmith9060except kids have depression as well... I did
They were in bed to save energy. That used to be common practice in times of hunger.
I love both movies. I say that with no "buts" and no irony. I think they're just two different takes on a classic, created at different times and with different sets of tools available to each director. I know a lot of people feel the need to rank one over the other, but I don't. They're just different, is all.
Completely agree.
Completely agree
Agreed!
Same.
I can see what the sensitivity readers were being cautious of in their revisions, but I would personally view a page at the beginning or end explaining why those lines could be insensitive then parents or children can decide if they want to read it or if they want to skip it.
I think that would be a happy medium of keeping the original work but also acknowledging how it may inadvertently cause harm currently
I grew up with Charlie, and the sequel, The Great Glass Elevator. They were books in the library of my school, and I wish I could thank the wonderful librarians who ran my grade school and junior high libraries for the wonderful work they did and all the books they brought to kids. I always thought Charlie's grandparents were depressed, not lazy. The book was clear on how hopeless the Buckets' lives were. The only book Roald Dahl wrote that I didn't like was 'The Witches', and my daughter didn't like it either. It was too sad. And I'm very glad the 'cleaners' didn't get away with wrecking Dahl's work.
I'm actually excited to see this movie version because I am a huge fan of Paul King, the writer/director. He wrote and directed both paddington films which, while not straight adaptations, kept the spirit and intent of the author and the characters were lovingly represented in the films. I hope that King has done the same thing for Willy Wonka that he did for Paddington. The Paddington films remain, in my opinion, some of the best family films ever made.
Also like to see how Wonka’s rivals - Fickelgrüber, Prodnose and Slugworth - are going to be portrayed
You are absolutely correct to raise the subject of the anonymous sensitivity readers. It did not go down well at all in the U.K. either.
My personal opinion has always been that you can’t learn from history if you hide it under the rug. Pretending anything didn’t happen won’t help anyone. This editing is a good example.
I wouldn't consider this a good example of hiding history. Because there isn't anything wrong with these books to hide in the first place. Its just woke, outrage, cancel culture needing something to be upset about.
I can’t believe that they erased all of this stuff about it. Like, we all know that Augustus Gloop is fat. I always figured it was part of the fact that he was super greedy. Are they all supposed to look exactly the same?
Too concerned with "saftey" and not Liberty. Therefore your Rights get taken away. Hanging on by threads these days, destroying history and replacing it with lies for people who have serious problems with reality.
well said about changing things the notion we want to erase the idea that we were once wrong erases the idea that we have moved forward it also provides us with that teaching moment.
Are you kidding me, Grandpa Joe makes the entire movie what it is, he's the one that gives Charlie the sense he can be somebody in this world. And that he deserves what everyone else deserves and he is worthy just like everybody.
But he also leached off his daughter, spending decades in bed when he in fact could walk
"makes the entire movie what it is"-- no, that's just ridiculous. It's fine to appreciate him as a character but don't bother doing the thing where you pretend to be smart by citing some side detail and pretending like it's the most-important thing in the work. He's a supporting character, not somebody driving the story.
fr. i never got the sense he was anything but that - people who assume anything nasty and negative about characters, especially when it comes to things they dont understand like disability & old age
he's a major character. he is absolutely very important - just because you dont see him as such, doesnt make it so. @@jamescarter3196
@@jamescarter3196 Quite ironic given that you're the one trying to sound smart here...
I took my baby brother to this movie in 1971. I was 14, he was 5. I was so bored I could barely stand it. Our parents never would have taken me to a movie like this, and I never understood the children's movie genre, but my brother, 58, now, I hope remembers.
You sound like a miserable older sibling to have smh lol
Loved your deep dive. Thank you!
What an amazing video… thank you for your hard work comparing these. 😊
Fun fact: The foam used to spurt out in the “Wonka Wash” scene was poisonous. It was made from basic fire extinguishers and was a potent skin irritant, so after shooting the scene, the actors’ skin puffed up and reportedly required several days off set to receive medical treatment and recover.
Sounds like the 1970s..
😲😲😲
Fire extinguisher foam was also used to make snow in It's a Wonderful life in 1946 albeit mixed with soap flakes and sugar. It replaced the cornflake and asbestos method of snow making until the later half of the 20th century.
Thats PFOA or PFAS. Great fact. Wish they figured out then how bad it is for health! Its now in every body and more falling in the rain.
It causes cytokine storms, like what killed people during covid, and other immune system hyper-reactivity reactions. Its absorbed and dosent leave the body so builds up and is a multi system toxin. Now shown to attach to DNA and weaken it.
The tin man in the OZ movies suffered permanently from fine ground aluminum paste makeup . - Yet we bake goods with aluminum baking soda!
I think it damaged his kidneys when the metal was absorbed through his skin. Kidneys are tasked with removing toxins along with the liver so are the first damaged. Heart and brain are toxin sensitive too.
One study showed immediate neurofibulary tangles in the brain of rabbits when aluminum was injected- but we still use foil on food. You can buy metal coated balls to decorate cakes etc...
Inflammation reactions are what people actually die from so we should watch for inflammatory effects and avoid anything causing it.
Asbestos was used as snow in "The Wizard of Oz"
no way I caught this SECONDS of it being uploaded !!!???!!!
😂
Jon you were so thorough in this vid. Loved the book, loved your dissection of the story. Hope literature withstands the sands time.
I grew up on his books! I loved them. As for the movies the original Rtim Burton one is my favorite but I loved the craziness of the second one. I'm a fan all over.
I appreciate your information! That gave me more insight on the book!
I’m a little nervous for the prequel. I think to get a background story on an iconic character has the potential to either add to the mythos or ruin it
Hopefully add to it, then...
But this is Hollywood, so probably not
@@DrDolan2000 Hollywood being what it is…..just wants to capitalize on the popularity of the character. It was like with the Star Wars prequels. Darth Vader is iconic so they wanted to capitalize on that with his own backstory
I personally think it'll ruin it. Willy Wonka isn't supposed to be "whimsical" in my opinion.
I've seen so many deep dives on both movies and I've realized, the prequel is just continuing a story Roald Dahl didn't even want.
And technically it's a sequel, cuz Charlie and the Chocolate Factory was a remake not the "second movie to the first one" if that makes since. I just don't know, I don't think I'll be impressed. Maybe if Tim Burton was the director🤷🏽♀️.
Even the first movie, which is what the prequel is based off of despite being FAR less accurate to the book, has an origin story about the Oompa-Loompas that doesn't match up at all.
I always liked the books and the first movie, but always wished that they had done a film of the second book, Charlie and the Great Glass Elevator. A lot more action, going into outer space and back to the factory, and even more rooms that hadn't been discussed before.
I'd like to see that too
Sadly Dahl hated the 71 version and then forbid The Great Glass Elevator from ever having an adaptation
@@ghostly0005damn it Dahl. The film wasn’t even that different from the book if he saw the Time Burton version he would be praising the 71 classic
I guess he would prefer the Tim Burton version.
I wish Dahl wouldn't have prevented the sequel The Great Glass Elevator from being made into a movie.
An extraordinarily researched and deep-thinkingng doco. That earned my subscription!
Dahl was my favorite author as a kid. His stories, like Matilda, BFG, The Twits, George’s Marvelous Medicine, and others encouraged me to love reading, and they will always be special to me.
Thank you for an entertaining and informed video!
“Square Candy’s that look round” 😂 - God Tier Dad joke
I must have watched the Gene Wilder version 1000 times as a kid. I loved it.
Oh me too!
Me too and I had to watch it another 1000 times when my kids would watch it 😂 they didn't like the Depp version at all.
@@markshaw270 I didn't either. It wasn't horrible but Depp just didn't have the charm of Gene Wilder
I read every Roald Dahl I could get my hands on, back in the day (before my Mom banned me from reading books with pictures in them, which killed my love for reading). Watching the Wilder version later on was my introduction to movies veering from the og material/cutting story for time. Dahl remains in my top 5 favorite writers, his epic stories of Danny and the champion of the world my all-time favorite. You've inspired me to find a few copies to keep for my nieces and nephew for when they're ready.
Great video!
Burton spent 5 months just training squirrels. The entire Wilder versiion was made in 3 months.
Being 62 years old, I did grow up with all of Dhal's stories and found them delightful. Your overview was spot-on with Charlie, as I had read the book well before the first movie came out. Your conclusions about both movies are accurate also, excellent job. Thank you.
Yet you can't spell his name.
Oh spelling Dahl I still loved his equivocal works where things were not ok-
was disappointed by the 1974 version and haven’t bothered with the 2005.
The story is problematic in any case
I read the "old school" version 6+ times as a child. There was never anything to compare it with or that surpassed it! I learbed how hysterically funny and clever you could make rhymes by reading the oompa loompa songs again and again. Grade school kids are both kind hearted heros and monsters, and Dahl revealed this to CHILDREN, who were already experiencing this in thier daily lives.
I loved your post. I grew up on Dahl's books. Charlie and the Chocollate Factory, James and the Giant Peach, and Danny the Champion of the world were my favorites. I discovered my love of reading through reading these books, and though I agree with the changes Dahl made, I completely hate the revisions. Part of what made his stories great were the details and removing them seems absurd.
I think this video is AWESOME! I'm a huge fan of the book and the author, and I love history around fiction, when it comes to transferring to film. You've done a brilliant job here.
PS, if anyone is taking offense, their anger is totally misplaced. But I think it's great, you've managed to stimulate the public with this story, yet again. And that's why it will forever be a great one.
❤ New fan. Great work well delivered! I got rocked and shared out of respect and gratitude. ❤
The infamous Mr. Dahl has been a great influence in my life. Growing up on his original work sparked my enthusiasm for reading as a child, he made me an author. First, growing up as a little brown girl, in an all brown school, we all knew that Rahl Dahl rewrote the Oompa Loompas to refrain from depicting Africans in slavery. We didn’t care because we knew who we were. Sensitivity groups are the reason the world is upside down, now. Mr. Dahl showed us the real world and helped many of us hold on to our imagination, which is the key to the reason why many adults don’t succeed. As a writer, I can attest to the fact that it’s hard to share your creativity with a world that’s so judgmental and half as talented. Mr. Dahl made me loud, righteous and brave in a world that’s meant to be scary, but if you grow up reading the books we had in the 90’s, nothing would scare you. Shout out Mrs. Judy Blume as well 🙌🏾
YES, that is true what you say--"Sensitivity groups are the reason the world is upside down, now" added to that is the modern media complex that PROFITS from all the drummed up chaos!
Absolutely well said! :)
The first thing I thought when I heard of the forced rewriting of the book was "oh, so there already were -woke idiots- **cough** _Sensitivity groups_ around at the time".
Shame Dahl himself was an anti-semite/racist.....
You got that right. My mother was a genealogist and historian for a small town in Upstate NY and when she spoke about the Underground Railroad she was ridiculed for being a white woman "teaching blacks about black history" as a sensitivity group put it. Funny thing about the offended sensitivity group...they were all white and the people who showed up to hear her talk were all black, and they were confused about how it was offensive.
The Tim Burton version will always be my favorite. I’m actually surprised at how much more accurate it is to the book.
Same! It's not only the best version but my favorite movie of all time!
For starters, the title
It was trash wilders version was way better.
@@Allious131 Agree to disagree
@@Wolfdog2416 And that is why it's called the world everyone is different.
15:50
The toilet bowl after eating McDonald’s
Roast got me
I really enjoyed this show-clever to show the major differences yet kind to point out what was closer to the writing-
7:42 The classroom version is my personal favorite: "Class dismissed! [...] Class undismissed. [...] Class Redismissed!"
I can understand why Roald Dahl changed the Oompa Loompa's. He thought it was a bit of a mistake on his end and changed it up. But what the publishing company did was just messed up.
Yeah there’s actually valid reasoning for Dahl changing the Oompa Loompa’s. But the publisher just got scared of offending anyone which I don’t get because I’ve never heard of anyone offended by the book. I’m sure they exist but not enough to pressure the publisher to make such changes. Doesn’t make much sense to me because if a kid reads the book he’ll likely want to see the movie anyway and will see how the characters are depicted appearance wise
@@jayscott4118 I have a second edition of the book and it basically describes the Oompa Loompas as little black people who were found living in tribal situations and who are paid with cacao. It was a bit of a shock after having grown up with a 2005ish Quentin Blake illustrated version.
Then again, their presentation was still likeable, but I could see why some people might have an issue.
But it didn’t feel like it would encourage racism, since the Oompa Loompas are their own race of people and are quirky, friendly, and likeable. They just felt very Dahlian and fantastical, so there didn’t feel like there was a connection to reality.
But those changes actually made them more interesting, so I’m fine with them. However, I don’t agree with the recent changes. ‘Fat’ for example, is a physical descriptor. I’m not really sure how you’re supposed to describe Augustus Gloop without using that word, since not only is it part of his character, but other words for ‘fat’ would probably be more offensive. And ‘white as a sheet’… that’s a metaphor with zero racial connection and which describes a bloodless appearance. When one of my friends, who is black, heard it, her reaction was “BS”.
Things are far too touchy these days, to the point where it is rare to see heterosexual white (non-ginger) men and women in commercial product advertising unless it is a product for them, eg. blonde hair dye. You’ll still see a few, but not many.
Representation is not a bad thing, but it should be accurate.
While I don’t agree with the following view, there is a growing feeling amongst the young population that your future isn’t very good if you’re an average white male without a disability or being part of the LGBT+ community. That kind of thought is very scary for several reasons and should not be the case.
The scariest part is that this thought is being encouraged on an industrial basis. I know of one government agency which requires a quiz as part of training. The answer to the question “what is equality?” was apparently giving minorities preferential treatment. That is discrimination. Equality is providing equal treatment to everyone regardless of any factors. Equity is what the aim should be, which is doing the equivalent of providing a child three boxes to stand on, a teen two boxes, and an adult one box because they only need one box to see over the same fence as the other two. It is scary that the government has actually started approving this kind of thing.
Yeah, I think there's a difference when the author him/herself makes a change and when someone else forces it. Diane Duane did the same thing when a book she'd written about an autistic child pre-internet turned out to be way off-base as the perspectives of autistic people started showing up online: she went back and changed things to make them more accurate and respectful in light of the information she now had that she hadn't had when she first wrote her book. If someone else had forced it though, I wouldn't have liked the imposition.
@@RosinaEmilyWof course it’s offensive which is why they changed it… what encouraged that thought in 1960s be foreal 🤦🏽♂️ you’re more offended by Augustus choosing to be fat and saying that’s offensive something he can change but having Africans work for chocolate and having them think they were made of chocolate isn’t offensive 😂😂 joke
@@budsgamin Joker
7:12 I read the book and when I heard that I was like "wait,I don't remember that happening?"
I definitely recommend the prequal with chalamet. It's so good! Hugh Grant as the Oompa is perfect! Also great soundtrack in my opinion
I am a giant Malcolm in the middle fan so the fact that you used candy man from that episode Francis and his military brothers were singing it made my whole day because it’s my birthday and I was have a shitty day. This made me smile ear to ear ❤ thanks Mr Solo
🎉HAPPY BIRTHDAY 🎉 here's some cake 🎂, got balloons 🎈, even found a clown look 🤡 cheer up, buttercup!
@lovielove4243 aww! Totally sweet! I appreciate you kind stranger 🥰
Happy Birthday to you, I hope you continue to have a better day 🎂🎊🎊🎂
I was a fat kid (and a fat adult) but never felt threatened by the description of Augustus Gloop. What happened to these kids was a result of their actions, no their appearances and I saw it more like cautionary tales. You could argue that if the appearance has nothing to do with the consequences, then it doesn't matter if it is included or not and leave it to the kids imagination. You could, but how will they learn the variety that exists? And since people tend to fear the unknown, how will they learn having tolerance and compassion for something different?
People these days are snowflakes
Props… for keeping it real
A fat person who doesn’t mind being called fat? Sounds like a pick me.
It's been a process but as said, I even then, I had more attention for their actions than their appearances.
Censorship is actually sad.. especially without one's permission.
Think about great poets and philosophers over the years.. when will it end? When we no longer have our own free will to CHOOSE what we wish to read? We have seen scores of people on Facebook say if you don't like what I post, continue to scroll.
The same could be said of a book, if you don't like it, don't continue to read it. If you are a person with sensitivity issues, and I know some are, don't pay for your books, that would be rough paying for something you don't like .. choose the library instead. Then .. no harm, no fowl... Next please. And you then never have to choose another book from that particular author again😊
And we can all be happy, those with a fierce love for fantasy, and those that have a more bland palate of adventure. Let US choose!
Thank you for this Jon!! I usually don't watch things like this, I am not a fan of "long videos" I'd rather read a good book, but this was very informative! ❤
Thank you so much! Awesome explanation so appreciated!
Gloop's original casting as a German boy was likely a decision based on their filming the movie in Munich, Germany, and Michael Böllner, who played him, later recalled in an interview for the film's DVD special features that his mother had answered a casting advertisement in the paper.
Glup could be Germanized version of Polish word głup (meaning stupid). And yeah I haven't heard of anyone bearing such surname but I have heard of some really weird ones so it kinda makes sense.
While Augustus Gloop wasn't explicitly German in the book, I'm curious whether there was a connection between him and Augustus from Heinrich Hoffmann's "Der Struwwelpeter." Dahl cited this book as a major influence. Both works are basically a bunch of stories about children meeting horrific fates due to their own misbehavior. Augustus (called Kaspar in the original German) was a chubby boy who refused to eat his soup and consequently starved to death. Dahl certainly would have been familiar with the character, and I wonder if that's why he chose the name.
Can we appreciate that this man killed either the mad hatter or Willy Wonka just to be place in the background of the video 🥰
I agree first thing I noticed as well wen I first started watching the video
I'm really late here, but i loved wonka. I watched it in theaters with my husband and then with my child (5). It was so whimiscal and silly. Seriously a top runner for favourite silly movies.
To me, the broad sweep of the different endings reflect the time and culture of each. In the book, written in welfare-state Britain, the highest virtue was doing as you were told, and so Charlie wins by never stepping out of line. In the USA of the 60s-70s, the highest virtue was to treat others honestly, and so Charlie won by refusing to betray Wonka. By the Burton version, society's focus was on resolving emotional issues, so Charlie wins by helping Wonka resolve his own twisted psyche.
Interesting point of view and I agree.
Good point.
Perfectly stated. I agree with this.
Very accurate
I wouldn't stay the value was doing as you where told as such. Just having standards of behaviour.