To be fair, the Dark Elves are the best because they're the most fleshed out race. Morrowind was more about bringing the Dunmer's culture to life over how badass the player was (with the tech limitations of the time). You experienced what it feels like to live in the land of the Dark Elves. To me, that's what modern Bethesda's lacking. The ability to bring the culture of the races they're representing to life. With the tech available now, they could potentially make their best Elder Scrolls yet. Should they tighten up their weaknesses and don't forsake their strength's. Skyrim was fun, one of the games I keep going back to until I'm burnt out and let it sit for a couple of months. However when you look at the lore comparing to what the game was, you start to feel like the Nords of Skyrim were just Imperials having beef with Imperials over whose the better Imperial.
@@voodoophil Absolutely, the alien landscape really does add to the atmosphere of the world. In the more recent Elder Scrolls, the lands are more familiar to the player's. Which is fine, however they should do more to make the more mundane lands pop out. Try to bring the existing lore to life instead of stripping it. Other lands in the Elder Scrolls potentially could be alien as well. Summerset with its glass and coral cities (in previously established lore, I know ESO changed it). Valenwood has potential to be alien as well, should they take advantage of the culture and modern tech available. Blackmarsh especially has the potential to be alien, so long as they don't strip the lore. They have a well established franchise. People bought Fallout4 on the success of Skyrim and word of mouth alone. So really, they could make the next thing as alien as Morrowind and it would still sell as much, if not more than Fallout4.
Yeah the dunmer are basically the only race that’s actually unique. The other ones are just Nords = Scandinavians, Imperials = Romans, Argonians = Mayans, Altmer & Bosmer = generic fantasy elves and so on.
Given elder scrolls 6, you’ll be able to play a transrace transgender mtf blonde breton who used to be an argonian. Also it’ll be online only, no single player.
Necromancy is fish-hooking an unwilling soul, and dragging it forcibly back into the land of the living. Ancestor Communing is just knocking on their door and going "Hey, got time for a quick chat?"
My favourite part about the Dunmer is that while still looking like fantasy elves, they're so far from it, they may be completely alien - and that's of course how they're designed, with heavy sci-fi elements rather than fantasy - to all the rest of Tamriel to such an extend you think they're not from here... and then you get the lore behind it, which is so badass. I think they've got the best design out of most modern fantasy elves, simply for how unique - but not bad unique - they are.
@@Jiub_SN I know of Kirkbride's writings, and I don't think every race was "unique". Nord's and Dunmer were certainly more unique than others. And LotR predates Elder Scrolls with half a century, what are you on about? When you get down to it, ES mer are just a copy of a copy of Tolkien's Elves.
@@Jiub_SN This is so sad when you think about it. Oblivion and Skyrim could have been so much more original and 'alien'. But instead they made them look like generic medieval fantasy. What a fucking shame.
@@adde27 A lot of races are supposed to be unique. Just look at how Cyrodiil was described by Kirkbride. And what about the Wood Elves, Khajiits, Argonians and so on?
Also, hot take warning I will now dare to diss Tolkien. Why I admire the lenghts he went to when it comes to just making stuff up, I think his way of presenting it is subpar. His writing style seems most suitable for people who haven't read fiction before, and thus are unable to fill in any blanks. The detail he conveys feels almost restrictive to the imagination, like metaphorical training wheels. It prevents the only advantage a book has over modern media, namely how the brain can make the details the way it wants them to be.
The first ES character I ever made was a Dunmer I named Gaah Remir in Daggerfall. None of the lore was really established then I don't think but I thought the Dark Elves looked cool. I've made it a tradition to make a "Gaah Remir" character in every ES game I've played since.
When I was 10 my mom bought my brother and I an xbox, and she bought us san Andreas. There was this kid in the neighborhood who also had an xbox. And after a while of us hanging out he asked if we could swap games for a while. He had morrowind and wanted to play San Andreas. Well I said sure. Then my mom returned my xbox bc we hit some rough times. After a week or so she went get me what she hoped was the same xbox. It wasn't. She got it from rent a center. This xbox was used. And the previous owner was obviously a grown man who was well aware of the elder scrolls. He had a lvl 24 dark elf named Nerevar. He had trueflame and hopesfire. Had full glass armor and masque de clavicus vile. He had 27k gold on him. Was proficient in destruction, blade, and restoration. I had NO IDEA. I was 10. But we kept that xbox and I kept morrowind for the next 2 years. I kept paying morrowind. I made many news characters. So did my brother. Then we found out about oblivion and a 360, I made a nord. For skyrim, I made a dark elf. His name was nerevar. He wore glass armor, was a master sword user, destruction, and restoration. Now in ESO If I could make something like that I would lol
I always do at least one Dunmer playthrough, though I don't have a set character for that. First time it was just because they look cool, my knowledge of the lore came later.
@@modernwarfare134I'll give you one other example of Dark Elves in an IP aside from TES: Marvel comics. If you've ever read Thor comics involving Malekith, you'll have seen marvel's interpretation of what a dark elf is. Certainly an interesting one but TES is definitely one of the greatest
The main reason dunmer are the best is how in-depth the world building surrounding them is. They are one of the most complex and realistically designed fantastical cultures ever.
I've been playing Dunmer since Morrowind, and as with all RPGs I always name my character Leon. There will always be a Dunmer named Leon to save Tamriel 😂
I played as a Nord first playthrough and a Dunmer second. There are a lot of differences between: “Well met, Kinsman” and “ You damn gray-skin! Go back to Morrowind!”
Compared to dunmer, nords are anti-racist. They let dunmer refugees settle in Windhelm of all places. If the roles were flipped the dunmer would have massacred the nord refugees and enslaved the survivors like it was nothing lol
Eh, but why a voice change? It was a skin curse, not a vocal one. It could also be the fact that they were inhaling more ash in those areas 9f Vardenfell, a place closer to Red Mountain
@@ningkon3787 youve never played dragon age. All media seems to be turning the tables on the "gorgeous, blue eyed blond" race because of "racism allegory"
It's one of the most fascinating ideas I've heard and on top of all of that it fits in so perfectly with the lore and history. Did they ever make a video on the topic?
First I finished Oblivion with (started with an Altmer but the weakness to magic got annoying). Not even for the lore (this was my first Elder Scrolls game) but because they were jack of all trades damage dealers. I also had a wierd soft spot for second in command of the fighter's guild Modryn Oreyn. Actually I loved all of the NPCs in Chorrol, It was probably the least impressive looking city in the game (except Bravil) but it always felt like home.
On the topic of dwemer origin, this is an excerpt from PGE 3rd edition: "Even the earliest records of Summerset, however, shed no light on the origins of the Dwemer, who already occupied the northeast of Tamriel when Veloth and his people arrived there."
Yeah, but the Pocket Guides are still sorta basic, a bit bias or just bare bones information overall. But yeah, this is one thing that is true, the Dwemer and Falmer were just Vibing out in Tamriel, as were the Bosmer, at least once Y'ffre made them in Valenwood. Perhaps they descended from Aldmer who remained in Tamriel and weren't split up like the Aldmer who ended up on the shores of Summerset.
@@thalmoragent9344 Essentially everything in TES could be explained away as coming from unreliable narrator and being very subjective "truth", PGE 1st edition even shows that by blatantly calling out certain paragraphs within the guide itself. But as far as subjective truths go, as long as there's nothing that challenges that claim other than community conjecture it's the most solid evidence we have hence why i brought it up.
@@thaehighwayman True, history is written by the Victors, and so the Unreliable Narrator is quite the addition into the Lore, as it makes it seem even more "realistic", so to speak. So much mystery (although sometimes, I feel there's a bit TOO much mystery with some things, making me think that Bethenny didn't have it all written out well on their end either 😅) A great example is; We'll never know what triggered the Snow Elves to attack Saarthal during the Night of Tears, and since we only have the very biased Nordic accounts to go off of, (and even then, there's a lot of holes in the story that aren't elaborated) and no Snow Elves are alive to tell the tale from their side.
Okay but honestly, I play a nord, And I wrote him to be hopelessly fascinated with dunmer culture. Also, Sotha Sil is almost basically /the/ god. So it's kinda weird to think about.
re: necromancy and the dark elf ancestral tradition: define necromancy as 'returning to life that which is dead' and dark elf ancestral summoning is considered necromantic. However: define necromancy as 'a subversion or corruption of the natural interactions of living and dead essences' and such ancestral summoning could no longer considered necromancy, depending on your dogma.
The lore of the other races of Tamriel were created to better integrate them into the world, and with one another. When creating The Elder Scrolls III, the lore of the Dunmer was created to *alienate* them from the other races in Tamriel. That's because the developers of TES3 wanted that game to have an otherworldly feel to it. There was also an internal power struggle between creative forces from TES2 and TES3 as to the direction the series would go in. In a sense, the point about the Chimer being created by Boethiah (the betrayer) makes sense. The new direction that TES3 took compared to TES2 and the internal creative power struggle was kind of similar. Sort of like the internal game studio's drama being used as lore-building material by the game's writers.
How powerful is Azura? Merunes Dagon was in Tamriel for a few minutes during the Oblivion Crisis and managed to not do much but get wrecked by Akatosh. While Azura in an instant created a new race of all the Chymer and all their descendants in perpetuity.
I honestly can't play as anything else, I feel that I'm a Dunmer at heart and every single one of my Elder Scrolls characters since have been Dark Elves and will remain the only times the I've played as anything else was by experimenting but it's never the same without those eyes, or skin or voice
I was no joke looking for a dunmer video from you guys last night so I can connect with my character better. You guys are like psijics popping up at the best of timings.
It's quite sad that post-Morrowind Bethesda completely washed over the lore. If only Todd did not have watched Lord of the Rings, Cyrodiil would have been completely different.
I am amused at the idea that maybe the Dunmer would find Skyrim super weird, like when they see bear or deer that might be just as weird as like silt striders or cliff racers is to us lol.
To be honest, Dunmer is one of the interesting races in the whole TES universe. With their alien and diverse culture that is an amalgamation of tribes, myths, races, and cultures inspired from the real world. Apart from other race like Imperial that almost feels like a TES representation of Roman Empire/European world, Dunmer is a whole new level.
really sucks that people just assume the human races of ES are boring and carbon copies of real world cultures just because there's a real world parallel used as a broad basis if you look into it, the reality is that all races in ES have really rich history and interesting culture... except bretons
@@katatonikbliss Then they shouldn't have made the races similar to real world equivalents. There's always going to be a bias, if you base something on a real world subject.
to the topic of whether he Dwemer are OP in lore, I think you also have to take into account that since they used technology(even if it was magical), that has an upward progression through time(like in the real world) so the Dwemer tech we know about is their high water mark, potentially some of it was developed in the last decades of their existence. Magic on the other hand seems to have a diminishing trajectory through time. So for the majority time of their existence until they emerged and started interacting with the Chimer, they may have in fact been fearful/at a disadvantage to all other races, hence why they lived/stayed underground. On a side note, while dwemer maybe came from chimer, I think there's maybe something that the Ayleids came from chimer. If you think about real world migrations, especially early in time, they aren't usually a single group moving in a fixed path but radiations of people across time that often splinter or many groups that stay along the path. If Ayleid's were Chimer who left Sumerset during the Velothi migrations but who settled down and didn't keep moving, it would explain how they started venerating the Daedra, and their political system sounds in some ways like an intermediate between the highly centralized Altmer and the clannish Chimer.
"we might need extra podcasts" Please do! I think (know) part of the reason there is so much to dig into here is because the Dunmer have the most fully realized world-building. Morrowind is a treasure trove of lore, and it's got the perfect mix of familiar and weird. They did an excellent job of creating a broad and varied culture in a broad and varied environment with broad and varied political and economic interactions.
Morrowind(particularly Vvardenfel) is almost proof that there used to be 12 worlds before creation. Its nothing like anywhere else on Nirn, like a chunk of another planet that had been placed on Tamriel.
Thanks for doing these podcasts. There's a lot of people out there who have no one to talk to about these things and it feels like we're in the room nerding out with you lads.
I often get the vibe listening to Fudgemupet. That they think the red mountain irrupt it once and then one wave of refugees came. The red mountain continuously a Rupps, that’s why heart stones can be found on source time, and in addition to that refugees are still coming and traveling due to all the unrest.
While I will not dispute the Dark Elves are the most "unique" race with clearly the most effort put into their lore, I have to say I've never been a fan. Even after playing Morrowind, just never really fell in love with them like many others did. Unique and weird doesn't necessarily mean cool and awesome. A lot of personal preference goes into this kind of thing.
This is why we have options, I like the Dunmer a hell of a lot, my girlfriend loves the Bosmer. It's all about preference. So I respect your decision, filthy N'wah.
I assume that during the phase of High Velothi Culture the Dwemer were still developing Tonal Architecture and weren't as advanced at using it to create weapons. Much later, by the time of the Red Moment, they had become more advanced. People dont realize how long it took from Point A(Dwemer and High Velothi meet) and Point B(Battle of Red Mountain). In that time they had become more powerful.
The Dunmer's organisation into major and minor families, their comolex political structure, blue skin, red eyes, zeal and - outside Morrowind ‐ their general pride in their Dunmer-ness (to put it politely) is somewhat reminiscent of the Chiss Ascendency in the Star Wars universe... 🤔
Yeah, very true (although it's not just Blue Skin for the Dunmer, but regardless) although, do the Chiss backstab each other like the Dunmer? Since Dunmer are so notorious for it
@@thalmoragent9344 From what little I know, the don't seem to do a lot of assassinations - if any. Although there was that one time three of the "2nd Tier" families (who are each pleged to/allied with different "1st Tier Families for influence & resources) were almost tricked into starting a civil war over a mine for a rare material they use for their warships ('Star Wars: Thrawn Ascendancy, Book 2: Greater Good', I think).
@@henryviiifake8244 Ah, I see. But yeah, the Chiss as a race of Mer would totally be badass. Admittedly, they'd be a bitter fit to ally with the Dwemer than anyone else, maybe the other Elves like Direnni, Falmer, Aylied or Altmer, as they're pretty intelligent and sophisticated If the Chiss were in the Elder Scrolls universe, they could be those ice people in Akavir maybe, but with 200+ IQ 😅
I genuinely think that the Dragonborn in Skyrim could definitely be a Dunmer (in regards to staying true to lore). Barenziah, and the mother that gave birth to Uriel Septim (forgot her name) were both Dunmer women. Somewhere in the mix there couldve been a lost/orphaned Dark elf child that didnt know they were the last Dragonborn and eventually made it to Skyrim and so forth. In Oblivion, ESO and Skyrim all of my characters were Dunmer, next TES ill be one again
I started with Morrowind, was part of the Pillow Fort and Hannah's Buttersky crew, became a mod on gamefaqs as a result. I can still get the Sword of White Woe before reaching lvl 10 in the barracks in Balmora, and haggle with a talking mudcrab. I made the fine city of Vivec float with TES Editor so the NPC's would pat off the edge to Slaughterfishy doom. Every TES I will always play a Dunmer assassin/thief/mage. This is the best vid!
Touching on the point of the difference of architecture from mainland Vaardenfell to Morrowind, the Akaviri invaded the mainland in some areas that the Dunmer claimed for themselves. So the buildings sort of show a clash of cultures.
Between the Family names coming first in their names and the Family clans with subsidiary familes, and crime being a way of life, it sounds very Japanese and Yakuza inspired. Not to a T, obviously, but I can see the inspiration.
The 4 corners shrines are not only reminders. These shrines are there not for worship but to appease the daedra. Before alessia and/or Sil there were much more of a threat
Anybody who likes these videos might really love the "Exploring the Lord of the Rings" series by Mythguard Academy on UA-cam. Hundreds of hours of juicy LOTR lore already and they're not even done with the first book yet. Like literally it just keeps going and going. Loving that series and this one too.
Right at 40:00 when Michael said “being” I got a Disney+ ad that said “gorgeous” as it’s first line haha. Yes UA-cam the dunmer are gorgeous. Edit: it says glorious not gorgeous but that just makes it fit even more
I always wondered why Nords dislike the Dunmer when they both revere Lorkhan/Shor or what they are even fighting over. Sure the Shor myths in Nord culture teach the Nords not to trust the Elves in general but it would make sense to make an exception for the Dunmer when they worship the same God (Lorkhan/Shor) through Boethiah and Mephala. I guess it is because the Alessian Divines have taken over as the leading religion for the Nords and the Divines have no tolerance/respect for Daedric worship.
Especially if one of these skyrim coop mods gets properly integrated with full mod support might need to be set up how everyone uses one load order same mods probably by using one system as an all out host it would be heavy on that host but still maybe make it an optional
Azura's love is so damn powerful. To hell with Ayelieds and humans, they may be the direct descendants of Aedras but none can even compete with the Dunmer prowess.
I like how when Scott agrees with whatever either of the guys are saying, he sometimes does such a snoby and posh "nnyeeah", like a caricature British noble 😄
Wrote an entire 200 page book about the Dunmer and morrowind, their culture and religious Practice, the houses and history and geography. And even made a lore friendly lesser house known as house Ulen and wrote lore for that
Two questions/thoughts I always had: 1. With the return of the Nerevarine and the destruction of the Tribunal, wouldn’t the curse be lifted and the Dunmer look again like the Chimer? Or was the curse permanent with no “cure”? 2. I always liked the idea that the Dwemer had dark skin and such (some fan art depict them with deep blue, lavender or gray skin instead of pale gold) and the curse basically make the Dunmer look like them, so they would forever remember their one time nemesis.
How far north did the Argonians penetrate into Morrowind? Telvanni are pretty far north. Also, with the way the Hist control the Argonians, to what degree would the Hist actually want to bring down the mage lords? Although given to cruelty towards their slaves, their use of slaves as guinea pigs would be useful to the Hist. Each Argonian slave is effectively an inside man relaying the effects of their magickal research.
The Nords are going to be enslaved by the Dunmer in the near future, unless they have several shout users aiding them. Look at all the most powerful individuals/groups in the elder scrolls history, like Jagar Tharn, the Thalmor, Mankar Camoran and Mannimarco etc. They were all magic users, so the simple minded Nords dont stand a chance in the long run lol.
Change into Dunmer is not just aesthetic. I remember reading a book from TES that says dunmer suffer from a lot of skin deseases, Corprus being one of them.
i mean dwemer also have a very unique lifestyle. even if they lost battles actually conquering them would be very difficult since they'd retreat underground into their fortresses and mines. which is also a weakness i figure dwemer are extremely good at defensive warfare but their automatons etc require the infrastructure of their cities so they would not be quick on the offense (tho now i wonder how good they would be at underground warfare; just digging under an enemy city and blowing it up or something. definitely would depend on the geology of the area)
To be fair, the Dark Elves are the best because they're the most fleshed out race. Morrowind was more about bringing the Dunmer's culture to life over how badass the player was (with the tech limitations of the time). You experienced what it feels like to live in the land of the Dark Elves. To me, that's what modern Bethesda's lacking. The ability to bring the culture of the races they're representing to life.
With the tech available now, they could potentially make their best Elder Scrolls yet. Should they tighten up their weaknesses and don't forsake their strength's.
Skyrim was fun, one of the games I keep going back to until I'm burnt out and let it sit for a couple of months. However when you look at the lore comparing to what the game was, you start to feel like the Nords of Skyrim were just Imperials having beef with Imperials over whose the better Imperial.
@@voodoophil Absolutely, the alien landscape really does add to the atmosphere of the world. In the more recent Elder Scrolls, the lands are more familiar to the player's. Which is fine, however they should do more to make the more mundane lands pop out. Try to bring the existing lore to life instead of stripping it.
Other lands in the Elder Scrolls potentially could be alien as well. Summerset with its glass and coral cities (in previously established lore, I know ESO changed it). Valenwood has potential to be alien as well, should they take advantage of the culture and modern tech available. Blackmarsh especially has the potential to be alien, so long as they don't strip the lore.
They have a well established franchise. People bought Fallout4 on the success of Skyrim and word of mouth alone. So really, they could make the next thing as alien as Morrowind and it would still sell as much, if not more than Fallout4.
Yeah the dunmer are basically the only race that’s actually unique. The other ones are just Nords = Scandinavians, Imperials = Romans, Argonians = Mayans, Altmer & Bosmer = generic fantasy elves and so on.
Actually on second thoughts the Dwemer are fairly inspired too.
Given elder scrolls 6, you’ll be able to play a transrace transgender mtf blonde breton who used to be an argonian. Also it’ll be online only, no single player.
@@dukeman8481 oh my god shut up
Necromancy is fish-hooking an unwilling soul, and dragging it forcibly back into the land of the living. Ancestor Communing is just knocking on their door and going "Hey, got time for a quick chat?"
Necromancy is just healing without giving up.
Can't believe Drew and Michael didn't even crack a smile at the pun 45:56. House Dres "got absolutely swamped" in the Argonian invasion.
Well tbf, when have you ever seen Drew show a sense of humor? Scott and Michael, yes. Drew not so much.
My favourite part about the Dunmer is that while still looking like fantasy elves, they're so far from it, they may be completely alien - and that's of course how they're designed, with heavy sci-fi elements rather than fantasy - to all the rest of Tamriel to such an extend you think they're not from here... and then you get the lore behind it, which is so badass. I think they've got the best design out of most modern fantasy elves, simply for how unique - but not bad unique - they are.
All of the races of Tamriel were like that before the exile of Kirkbride and the release of LoTR lmao
@@Jiub_SN I know of Kirkbride's writings, and I don't think every race was "unique". Nord's and Dunmer were certainly more unique than others.
And LotR predates Elder Scrolls with half a century, what are you on about? When you get down to it, ES mer are just a copy of a copy of Tolkien's Elves.
@@adde27lmao what elder scrolls elves couldn't be the furthest thing from Tolkien elves
@@Jiub_SN This is so sad when you think about it. Oblivion and Skyrim could have been so much more original and 'alien'. But instead they made them look like generic medieval fantasy. What a fucking shame.
@@adde27 A lot of races are supposed to be unique. Just look at how Cyrodiil was described by Kirkbride. And what about the Wood Elves, Khajiits, Argonians and so on?
I honestly think the culture and lore of the Dunmer is one of the greatest across all mediums of fantasy, period.
Doesn’t compare to anything Tolkien, sorry
@@MeanAndPristine I agree with you there. Note the “one of the” greatest, not “the” greatest.
Plus is that even necessary to say out loud? I was assuming Tolkien is the gold standard lol
Tolkien is so copied by everyone that he feels clishee by now.
Also, hot take warning I will now dare to diss Tolkien.
Why I admire the lenghts he went to when it comes to just making stuff up, I think his way of presenting it is subpar.
His writing style seems most suitable for people who haven't read fiction before, and thus are unable to fill in any blanks.
The detail he conveys feels almost restrictive to the imagination, like metaphorical training wheels. It prevents the only advantage a book has over modern media, namely how the brain can make the details the way it wants them to be.
The first ES character I ever made was a Dunmer I named Gaah Remir in Daggerfall. None of the lore was really established then I don't think but I thought the Dark Elves looked cool.
I've made it a tradition to make a "Gaah Remir" character in every ES game I've played since.
technicaly he can be the same, as dunmer get old
When I was 10 my mom bought my brother and I an xbox, and she bought us san Andreas. There was this kid in the neighborhood who also had an xbox. And after a while of us hanging out he asked if we could swap games for a while. He had morrowind and wanted to play San Andreas. Well I said sure. Then my mom returned my xbox bc we hit some rough times. After a week or so she went get me what she hoped was the same xbox. It wasn't. She got it from rent a center. This xbox was used. And the previous owner was obviously a grown man who was well aware of the elder scrolls. He had a lvl 24 dark elf named Nerevar. He had trueflame and hopesfire. Had full glass armor and masque de clavicus vile. He had 27k gold on him. Was proficient in destruction, blade, and restoration.
I had NO IDEA. I was 10. But we kept that xbox and I kept morrowind for the next 2 years. I kept paying morrowind. I made many news characters. So did my brother. Then we found out about oblivion and a 360, I made a nord. For skyrim, I made a dark elf. His name was nerevar. He wore glass armor, was a master sword user, destruction, and restoration.
Now in ESO If I could make something like that I would lol
Top 5 reoccurring characters in the Elder Scrolls series
This is awesome, and Gaah Remir is now part of my headcanon.
I always do at least one Dunmer playthrough, though I don't have a set character for that. First time it was just because they look cool, my knowledge of the lore came later.
Bethesda’s version of Dark Elves is my favorite interpretation for sure
What are u talking about? Bethesda is the only ones thats ever made tes, there wasnt anyone making it before them
@@modernwarfare134 he’s talking about dark elves genius. not tes
dark elves have been in wayyy more things than TES@@modernwarfare134
@@modernwarfare134 are you dumb? lol i had to get out of my bed and on my computer to ask you this question.
@@modernwarfare134I'll give you one other example of Dark Elves in an IP aside from TES: Marvel comics. If you've ever read Thor comics involving Malekith, you'll have seen marvel's interpretation of what a dark elf is. Certainly an interesting one but TES is definitely one of the greatest
I am *down* for Drew’s theory about why the chimer were turned into the dunmer
Pretty sure it was because the tribunal used the heart of lorkhan to become living gods
The main reason dunmer are the best is how in-depth the world building surrounding them is. They are one of the most complex and realistically designed fantastical cultures ever.
I've been playing Dunmer since Morrowind, and as with all RPGs I always name my character Leon. There will always be a Dunmer named Leon to save Tamriel 😂
With the lifespan of those elves, whose tk say that it isn't isn't same elf?
Leon, you must save the president's daughter!
The Elder Scrolls version of Link
I'm saddened by the lack of ash yam discussions 😔
I played as a Nord first playthrough and a Dunmer second.
There are a lot of differences between:
“Well met, Kinsman” and “ You damn gray-skin! Go back to Morrowind!”
Compared to dunmer, nords are anti-racist. They let dunmer refugees settle in Windhelm of all places. If the roles were flipped the dunmer would have massacred the nord refugees and enslaved the survivors like it was nothing lol
Do that in Morrowind and you see the exact opposite: "you n-wah!" vs "leave, outlander"
I miss the way Dunmer sounded in Morrowind. All scratchy and burnt-out. It just fits with the whole curse thing. Make them look and sound ugly.
Eh, but why a voice change? It was a skin curse, not a vocal one. It could also be the fact that they were inhaling more ash in those areas 9f Vardenfell, a place closer to Red Mountain
@@thalmoragent9344 still they sound way cooler imo in morrowind than in skyrim.
@@MrJbedo male dunmer at least. Both the old and new voices for female dunmer I don't mind. The male voice with the raspy voice in Morrowind was great
Skyrim elves are much uglier than every other TES game, I don't like it.
Morrowind had the perfect ratio of ugly and cool.
@@ningkon3787 youve never played dragon age. All media seems to be turning the tables on the "gorgeous, blue eyed blond" race because of "racism allegory"
When starting my first elder scrolls game, Morrowind, I picked dark elf based on looks alone. They obviously are the coolest.
I want an entire video on just Drew's little side fact thing at 12:10 about why they were changed and all that. Please!
It's one of the most fascinating ideas I've heard and on top of all of that it fits in so perfectly with the lore and history. Did they ever make a video on the topic?
"this is gonna be a short one"
Me. *Looks at timestamp*
Anyway Dunmer have always been my favourite Race so it's a win-win for me
They were the first race i ever played in skyrim.
Same
Me too.
First I finished Oblivion with (started with an Altmer but the weakness to magic got annoying). Not even for the lore (this was my first Elder Scrolls game) but because they were jack of all trades damage dealers. I also had a wierd soft spot for second in command of the fighter's guild Modryn Oreyn. Actually I loved all of the NPCs in Chorrol, It was probably the least impressive looking city in the game (except Bravil) but it always felt like home.
I played an Imperial - because it seemed rich and powerful.
I was a Breton, probably very rare for a first choice but I wanted to be this called human mage so I guess it worked out in the end
You know Scott made the title for this upload.
Lol he couldn’t resist
No doubt about it
Well, it is accurate.
@@antiochus87Nah.
In Eso Morrowind when you visit Azura she refers to Vivic as a murderer
Yeah, she'd be more pissed than the other 2, she's the only of the 3 "Good" Daedra that would have any decent morals about them 😅
On the topic of dwemer origin, this is an excerpt from PGE 3rd edition:
"Even the earliest records of Summerset, however, shed no light on the origins of the Dwemer, who already occupied the northeast of Tamriel when Veloth and his people arrived there."
Yeah, but the Pocket Guides are still sorta basic, a bit bias or just bare bones information overall.
But yeah, this is one thing that is true, the Dwemer and Falmer were just Vibing out in Tamriel, as were the Bosmer, at least once Y'ffre made them in Valenwood. Perhaps they descended from Aldmer who remained in Tamriel and weren't split up like the Aldmer who ended up on the shores of Summerset.
@@thalmoragent9344 Essentially everything in TES could be explained away as coming from unreliable narrator and being very subjective "truth", PGE 1st edition even shows that by blatantly calling out certain paragraphs within the guide itself. But as far as subjective truths go, as long as there's nothing that challenges that claim other than community conjecture it's the most solid evidence we have hence why i brought it up.
@@thaehighwayman
True, history is written by the Victors, and so the Unreliable Narrator is quite the addition into the Lore, as it makes it seem even more "realistic", so to speak. So much mystery (although sometimes, I feel there's a bit TOO much mystery with some things, making me think that Bethenny didn't have it all written out well on their end either 😅)
A great example is;
We'll never know what triggered the Snow Elves to attack Saarthal during the Night of Tears, and since we only have the very biased Nordic accounts to go off of, (and even then, there's a lot of holes in the story that aren't elaborated) and no Snow Elves are alive to tell the tale from their side.
The mystery of the Dwemer is also easy game stories they can fill out in future games.
Drew’s hot take about the Tribunal being the curse of the chimer was not something I was prepared for on a Sunday morning
Okay but honestly, I play a nord, And I wrote him to be hopelessly fascinated with dunmer culture.
Also, Sotha Sil is almost basically /the/ god. So it's kinda weird to think about.
Ironically I play similar to you, only instead of being fascinated by the Dunmer, he is fascinated by the Dwemer.
@@MurthorOathstone dwemer too, absolutely. He gave himself the title "brass dragon" after it.
Nords and the dunmer are the most interesting races in my opinion.
First character is always a dunmer. After that Nord, orc, or Breton. But I tend to always come back to a dark elf
re: necromancy and the dark elf ancestral tradition: define necromancy as 'returning to life that which is dead' and dark elf ancestral summoning is considered necromantic. However: define necromancy as 'a subversion or corruption of the natural interactions of living and dead essences' and such ancestral summoning could no longer considered necromancy, depending on your dogma.
The lore of the other races of Tamriel were created to better integrate them into the world, and with one another. When creating The Elder Scrolls III, the lore of the Dunmer was created to *alienate* them from the other races in Tamriel. That's because the developers of TES3 wanted that game to have an otherworldly feel to it.
There was also an internal power struggle between creative forces from TES2 and TES3 as to the direction the series would go in. In a sense, the point about the Chimer being created by Boethiah (the betrayer) makes sense. The new direction that TES3 took compared to TES2 and the internal creative power struggle was kind of similar. Sort of like the internal game studio's drama being used as lore-building material by the game's writers.
The 69th podcast should be the lusty argonian maid I’m calling it now!
How powerful is Azura? Merunes Dagon was in Tamriel for a few minutes during the Oblivion Crisis and managed to not do much but get wrecked by Akatosh. While Azura in an instant created a new race of all the Chymer and all their descendants in perpetuity.
Mehrunes Dagon is a bit handicapped compared to other princes, given that he's one Kalpa behind in terms of power, schemes, exploits, and growth.
I honestly can't play as anything else, I feel that I'm a Dunmer at heart and every single one of my Elder Scrolls characters since have been Dark Elves and will remain the only times the I've played as anything else was by experimenting but it's never the same without those eyes, or skin or voice
I always play as Dunmer (unless i just want to discover the other races out of curiosity), my very first caracter in the ES was a Dunmer.
I was no joke looking for a dunmer video from you guys last night so I can connect with my character better. You guys are like psijics popping up at the best of timings.
It's quite sad that post-Morrowind Bethesda completely washed over the lore. If only Todd did not have watched Lord of the Rings, Cyrodiil would have been completely different.
I am amused at the idea that maybe the Dunmer would find Skyrim super weird, like when they see bear or deer that might be just as weird as like silt striders or cliff racers is to us lol.
To be honest, Dunmer is one of the interesting races in the whole TES universe. With their alien and diverse culture that is an amalgamation of tribes, myths, races, and cultures inspired from the real world.
Apart from other race like Imperial that almost feels like a TES representation of Roman Empire/European world, Dunmer is a whole new level.
Beast races have some pretty colorful lore and culture.
really sucks that people just assume the human races of ES are boring and carbon copies of real world cultures just because there's a real world parallel used as a broad basis
if you look into it, the reality is that all races in ES have really rich history and interesting culture... except bretons
I really hope ES6 isn’t just feudal Europe simulator with base building
@@katatonikbliss
Then they shouldn't have made the races similar to real world equivalents.
There's always going to be a bias, if you base something on a real world subject.
@@katatonikbliss
But also, I do agree with what you're saying.
to the topic of whether he Dwemer are OP in lore, I think you also have to take into account that since they used technology(even if it was magical), that has an upward progression through time(like in the real world) so the Dwemer tech we know about is their high water mark, potentially some of it was developed in the last decades of their existence. Magic on the other hand seems to have a diminishing trajectory through time. So for the majority time of their existence until they emerged and started interacting with the Chimer, they may have in fact been fearful/at a disadvantage to all other races, hence why they lived/stayed underground. On a side note, while dwemer maybe came from chimer, I think there's maybe something that the Ayleids came from chimer. If you think about real world migrations, especially early in time, they aren't usually a single group moving in a fixed path but radiations of people across time that often splinter or many groups that stay along the path. If Ayleid's were Chimer who left Sumerset during the Velothi migrations but who settled down and didn't keep moving, it would explain how they started venerating the Daedra, and their political system sounds in some ways like an intermediate between the highly centralized Altmer and the clannish Chimer.
Good to see another new episode boys! Keep up the work of the Divines!
After years of hearing your voices it's strange seeing your faces. Thanks for everything. Top quality content as always.
It could just be me but I really like the voices of the Dunmer as well.
**
Argonians: 👁👄👁
Khajit: 👁👄👁
Altmer: 🤬🤬🤬
Nords: 😡⚔🏹
Imparials: 🐸☕
Orcs: 🤨
Bosmer: 😐
Us Bretons just get no representation huh?
@@kangtheconqueror8359 Bretons: 🤫
@@kangtheconqueror8359What are Bretons?
"we might need extra podcasts" Please do! I think (know) part of the reason there is so much to dig into here is because the Dunmer have the most fully realized world-building. Morrowind is a treasure trove of lore, and it's got the perfect mix of familiar and weird. They did an excellent job of creating a broad and varied culture in a broad and varied environment with broad and varied political and economic interactions.
"The Best Race" damn right
Don't let any outlanders tell you otherwise
Morrowind(particularly Vvardenfel) is almost proof that there used to be 12 worlds before creation.
Its nothing like anywhere else on Nirn, like a chunk of another planet that had been placed on Tamriel.
If you are going for a pure mage, or any type of spellblade type character, the Dunmer are the best choice.
My N'Wah Nightblade slices and dices in agreement
Love the Dark Elves and their living gods. Such an interesting culture.
I’m a Dark Elf Vampire in ESO.
Doesn't being a Vampire go against the Dunmer Gods?
@@thalmoragent9344 Dunmer Despise vampire.
@@notalpharius4553
Yep, and that's also part of the reason why Molag Bal is one of the 4 houses of trouble
Thanks for doing these podcasts. There's a lot of people out there who have no one to talk to about these things and it feels like we're in the room nerding out with you lads.
What grand and intoxicating podcast. Been waiting for you guys to talk about the Dunmer
I often get the vibe listening to Fudgemupet. That they think the red mountain irrupt it once and then one wave of refugees came. The red mountain continuously a Rupps, that’s why heart stones can be found on source time, and in addition to that refugees are still coming and traveling due to all the unrest.
Damn Elves I Bet They Had Something To Do With This
While I will not dispute the Dark Elves are the most "unique" race with clearly the most effort put into their lore, I have to say I've never been a fan. Even after playing Morrowind, just never really fell in love with them like many others did. Unique and weird doesn't necessarily mean cool and awesome. A lot of personal preference goes into this kind of thing.
Agree completely. It's a very interesting culture and awesome environment to explore for a game, but I would never center anything around it.
This is why we have options, I like the Dunmer a hell of a lot, my girlfriend loves the Bosmer. It's all about preference. So I respect your decision, filthy N'wah.
Here's hoping they come back in Elder Scrolls 6.
Controversial
Heres hoping bethesda dosnt butcher the fuck out of tes 6.. like there already doing so with starfield.
Disregard ps4-5 players huh? Sellouts.
@@chillievans Quiet Alex.
I assume that during the phase of High Velothi Culture the Dwemer were still developing Tonal Architecture and weren't as advanced at using it to create weapons. Much later, by the time of the Red Moment, they had become more advanced.
People dont realize how long it took from Point A(Dwemer and High Velothi meet) and Point B(Battle of Red Mountain). In that time they had become more powerful.
The Dunmer's organisation into major and minor families, their comolex political structure, blue skin, red eyes, zeal and - outside Morrowind ‐ their general pride in their Dunmer-ness (to put it politely) is somewhat reminiscent of the Chiss Ascendency in the Star Wars universe... 🤔
Yeah, very true (although it's not just Blue Skin for the Dunmer, but regardless) although, do the Chiss backstab each other like the Dunmer? Since Dunmer are so notorious for it
@@thalmoragent9344 From what little I know, the don't seem to do a lot of assassinations - if any. Although there was that one time three of the "2nd Tier" families (who are each pleged to/allied with different "1st Tier Families for influence & resources) were almost tricked into starting a civil war over a mine for a rare material they use for their warships ('Star Wars: Thrawn Ascendancy, Book 2: Greater Good', I think).
@@henryviiifake8244
Ah, I see.
But yeah, the Chiss as a race of Mer would totally be badass. Admittedly, they'd be a bitter fit to ally with the Dwemer than anyone else, maybe the other Elves like Direnni, Falmer, Aylied or Altmer, as they're pretty intelligent and sophisticated
If the Chiss were in the Elder Scrolls universe, they could be those ice people in Akavir maybe, but with 200+ IQ 😅
I genuinely think that the Dragonborn in Skyrim could definitely be a Dunmer (in regards to staying true to lore). Barenziah, and the mother that gave birth to Uriel Septim (forgot her name) were both Dunmer women. Somewhere in the mix there couldve been a lost/orphaned Dark elf child that didnt know they were the last Dragonborn and eventually made it to Skyrim and so forth. In Oblivion, ESO and Skyrim all of my characters were Dunmer, next TES ill be one again
''The Best Race in the Elder Scrolls''
Me - Accession War
FudgeMuppet - REEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Ohhg I love seeing a whole session dedicated to the Dunmer, who may very well be my new favourite ES race!
Ever since I unlocke a guar mount in ESO I've had an irrational love of Guar they're just the cutest little guys.
Dunmer is my favorite race to play in Skyrim
I started with Morrowind, was part of the Pillow Fort and Hannah's Buttersky crew, became a mod on gamefaqs as a result. I can still get the Sword of White Woe before reaching lvl 10 in the barracks in Balmora, and haggle with a talking mudcrab. I made the fine city of Vivec float with TES Editor so the NPC's would pat off the edge to Slaughterfishy doom.
Every TES I will always play a Dunmer assassin/thief/mage.
This is the best vid!
“I tried to think of a Dark Elf joke, but it kept getting Dumner and Dumner.”
Love this podcast so much, it has become my favorite now
I think a dragon break just happened, because I’m sure they already did this :P
Dunmer > Argonians (property)
If I could be any race in the elder scrolls it would be dunmer
My absolute favorite race since the days of Morrowind!
I'd like to hear another 2 hours please.
Oh boy, another video about Argonians! Also, it sounds like the Dunmer will be mentioned for some reason.
Touching on the point of the difference of architecture from mainland Vaardenfell to Morrowind, the Akaviri invaded the mainland in some areas that the Dunmer claimed for themselves. So the buildings sort of show a clash of cultures.
Fascinating. I always had a Eurasian vibe from the Dunmer.
Between the Family names coming first in their names and the Family clans with subsidiary familes, and crime being a way of life, it sounds very Japanese and Yakuza inspired. Not to a T, obviously, but I can see the inspiration.
Indeed. Even more so when you notice the influence the Akaviri had on the Dark Elves
The 4 corners shrines are not only reminders. These shrines are there not for worship but to appease the daedra. Before alessia and/or Sil there were much more of a threat
Facts ‼️ I always choose the dark elves 🧝🏾when I play Skyrim.
Dunmer are objectively the coolest race.
Anybody who likes these videos might really love the "Exploring the Lord of the Rings" series by Mythguard Academy on UA-cam. Hundreds of hours of juicy LOTR lore already and they're not even done with the first book yet. Like literally it just keeps going and going. Loving that series and this one too.
Dunmer are indisputably the best and most objectively based race
Can wait for Dark Elves 2: Padomaic Boogaloo.
Right at 40:00 when Michael said “being” I got a Disney+ ad that said “gorgeous” as it’s first line haha. Yes UA-cam the dunmer are gorgeous.
Edit: it says glorious not gorgeous but that just makes it fit even more
I always wondered why Nords dislike the Dunmer when they both revere Lorkhan/Shor or what they are even fighting over.
Sure the Shor myths in Nord culture teach the Nords not to trust the Elves in general but it would make sense to make an exception for the Dunmer when they worship the same God (Lorkhan/Shor) through Boethiah and Mephala. I guess it is because the Alessian Divines have taken over as the leading religion for the Nords and the Divines have no tolerance/respect for Daedric worship.
When Skywind finally comes out you guys need to do a collab playthrough
Especially if one of these skyrim coop mods gets properly integrated with full mod support might need to be set up how everyone uses one load order same mods probably by using one system as an all out host it would be heavy on that host but still maybe make it an optional
Azura's love is so damn powerful. To hell with Ayelieds and humans, they may be the direct descendants of Aedras but none can even compete with the Dunmer prowess.
I like how when Scott agrees with whatever either of the guys are saying, he sometimes does such a snoby and posh "nnyeeah", like a caricature British noble 😄
Wrote an entire 200 page book about the Dunmer and morrowind, their culture and religious Practice, the houses and history and geography. And even made a lore friendly lesser house known as house Ulen and wrote lore for that
Two questions/thoughts I always had:
1. With the return of the Nerevarine and the destruction of the Tribunal, wouldn’t the curse be lifted and the Dunmer look again like the Chimer? Or was the curse permanent with no “cure”?
2. I always liked the idea that the Dwemer had dark skin and such (some fan art depict them with deep blue, lavender or gray skin instead of pale gold) and the curse basically make the Dunmer look like them, so they would forever remember their one time nemesis.
Bae-thiah wants some of that Lork-Daddy.
SOOOO CLOSE TO 1M!
I love the lore surrounding the dark elves but I hope next episode is about something a little more off the beaten path in the lore books.
This dropped just as I am about to try Morrowind for the first time. I think this is a good omen
"A lot of their lands are to the south, closer to blackmash, they got absolutely swamped" best pun in the world that neither of the three acknowledged
The number of times they said "heretical" makes it seem like they're talking about a whole different universe
How far north did the Argonians penetrate into Morrowind? Telvanni are pretty far north.
Also, with the way the Hist control the Argonians, to what degree would the Hist actually want to bring down the mage lords? Although given to cruelty towards their slaves, their use of slaves as guinea pigs would be useful to the Hist. Each Argonian slave is effectively an inside man relaying the effects of their magickal research.
The Dunmer are probably my most played race in ES games, followed by the Nords.
I always play the race of whatever province the game is in, so technically Nords are my most played while Dunmer are my least played
" I'm Scott, I'm the dunmer f**
And this is Michael, he's the argonian f**"
You spelled "Nords" wrong in the title
Nord superiority!
The Nords are going to be enslaved by the Dunmer in the near future, unless they have several shout users aiding them. Look at all the most powerful individuals/groups in the elder scrolls history, like Jagar Tharn, the Thalmor, Mankar Camoran and Mannimarco etc. They were all magic users, so the simple minded Nords dont stand a chance in the long run lol.
Y’all should do one going into the niveren and dagoth ur
Me: Say Scott, what did you have for breakfast?
Scott: Something like food kind of thing.
Dagoth Ur aproves of this message!
Argonain all the way. Most dark elves are just additional targets for me.
Dunmer have always been my favourite ever since Venturiantale made his Skyrim series
Change into Dunmer is not just aesthetic. I remember reading a book from TES that says dunmer suffer from a lot of skin deseases, Corprus being one of them.
Never have I agreed with a title more than this one.
Dumner. Khajiit. Argonians. These are truly the best The elder scrolls races.
I'd go for Dunmer, pre-Skyrim Nords and Bosmer.
Skyrim just got a new edition. This game has just became like Adoring Fan from Oblivion.
i mean dwemer also have a very unique lifestyle. even if they lost battles actually conquering them would be very difficult since they'd retreat underground into their fortresses and mines. which is also a weakness i figure dwemer are extremely good at defensive warfare but their automatons etc require the infrastructure of their cities so they would not be quick on the offense (tho now i wonder how good they would be at underground warfare; just digging under an enemy city and blowing it up or something. definitely would depend on the geology of the area)