You put more water on the Mac5 than the HK. You also had chamber open on the Mac5 and drown the magazine at the same time. You didn't have the chamber open on the HK and thus didn't fill the magazine with water
@@richardarrieta5006 There's a few people that took the Mac 5 part against an HK and all the measurements were exactly the same. Even when they took it out to shoot it, they could not tell the difference which one was HK or which one was the Mac 5. Even trigger pull they were very impressed and said everything is also interchangeable too.
FYI: I think that MAC just needs more break-in shooting because my AP5 fired the same way it did, when my PTR-9c fired like the SP5 did there, and if I recall, each requires at least a 500 round break-in. One thing you seem to not realize, the MP5 itself is built for 9mm parabellum NATO ammunition (FMJ) and DOES NOT have a feed ramp in the chamber to cycle hollow point ammo but the SP5 was built with a feed ramp feature as a selling point for that price tag along with the name. There's nothing wrong with the gun or the mags if they were both effectively running NATO (FMJ) ammo. The best choice I've seen for good defensive ammo for MP5 class guns is Norma's Non-Expanding 65 grain NXD Lead Free Defensive Ammunition. That's the choice I stick with.
@@BetweentheCheeks00 Simple logic, dude. The conditions have to be the same for both to be a fair comparison, and magazines are often the source of unreliability issues with magazine-fed firearms. But don't let my Logic get in the way of your Feelings-Based Reasoning. Have some more Tofu.
Just purchased my first Mac 5 from you guys last week. Got it all the way to Florida in 3 days after I purchased it. Put a 150 rounds through it not one issue. So I bought another one 😊. My son bought this century Arms short version and the same no issues. Awesome weapons. Thanks fellas.
You may want to check the bolt gap on the MAC. I've heard stories on the bolt gap being under specs. When it's under it means that it will cycle like a typical blow back, with more recoil and more gas since the rollers are not engaging. This may be the reason why you feel you're getting more gas than the HK. The gap should be .25mm to .45mm (preferably .45mm).
That thing looks better every day. I own a PTR-9c and an AP5 also, for two different configurations. If one or mine goes down hard, this might be a consideration. If it's a dual push-pin trigger group you're one step closer to the MP5 than the SP5 is already. Ironically, I just got an Obsidian9 out of NFA jail and waited 2 months for a 3-lug mount for it.
@@jeffreynye3019 I emailed SDS waiting on them to reply back. to remedy my guess would be new rollers but I am not sure. mine is brand new never fired by me.
This is what i found in regards to what the bolt gap range should be.. On an MP5, a bolt gap of.010” (technically 0.25mm) is the minimum spec,.018” is considered “ideal”, and.020” (technically 0.5mm) is the maximum spec., per H&K
@@KennethSchmitt The button barrel might be why the MAC 5 had a tighter group so "better" is subjective. Most folks don't understand the differences with CHF and what it is really good for.
How are these compared to other clones like the AP5 or the Zeniths? From what I can tell these are pretty serviceable for the price, especially for training/plinking.
Gents, thanks for this extremely thorough test. I just purchased the MAC-5 from y'all a week ago and looking forward to taking it to the range. Note taken on the HK mags being more reliable and I'm going to do a nice internal cleaning and oiling before I hit the range. One question: what did you do to get the MAC zero'd. The diopter will only affect elevation, correct?
@@gringotico1759 Heckler and cucks fansoyos are the funniest. HK never made a good looking pistol, nothing on the level of Beretta m9a4 or Sig p226. Lost every military contract possible. Military adopted some HK M4s but now they tossed them into garbage pile and replaced with sig XM7 😎👌
@@oneijack98Nice! I heard of a few people who received their MAC 5s with out-of-spec bolt gaps, but I'm hearing from more whose MACs are in-spec. I'll be receiving mine either Sunday or Monday, so my fingers are crossed. Were you able to determine what degree locking piece it has?
@khoonda Haven't really messed with that yet. I've been fighting a magpul SEF grip module fit issue, Going to have to do some cutting at the rear pin mount. But the trigger pack dropped right in without problems.
Thank you for doing the torture test. Scientifically, it would be interesting to know why the MAC 5 performed differently with the water and dirt dump test. The MAC 5 allegedly is the best 1:1 clone on the market and will accept all HK OEM parts. When you disassembled the MAC 5 later, did you see any clusters of dirt internally that would have cause the jams?
After we finished shooting for the video, we broke the MAC 5 down and gave it a deeper cleaning. There was a large chunk of dirt keeping it from going fully into battery when firing subsequent rounds, but slapping the charging handle would always make it fire the first round.
Could you guys show us the bolt gap? Two I have checked were out of spec despite running great. Long term it would become an issue. I’m holding off on buying until I see a few with the correct bolt gap.
Not sure why anyone would buy HK sp5. It has only one takedown pin in the receiver ( imagine having ar15 with one take down pin lol) , modified sights , modified mag catch and the receiver. Its not military spec MP5, but good enough for Heckler and cuck fanboys. Not sure about MAC, but mke ap5 is closest thing you can get to civilian MP5.
I quit watching the video at 15:58, the MAC-5 failed the water test, it wasn't that much water to begin with and it failed. Unreliable, not ready for combat. You get what you pay for.
Right, because the majority of people are buying these because they intend to go to war with them, and not because they have extra money and really like 80s action movies.
@@rustynail246 It's not that it jams, it's that it jams when you pour water into it. That's like complaining about how a car won't start when you pour sugar into the tank. The things that you're complaining about aren't real problems.
I was really thinking about that Mac 5 But after it got wet and your sand tests I was totally turned off about it. I'll stick with the CZ scorpio..Thank you
You put more water on the Mac5 than the HK. You also had chamber open on the Mac5 and drown the magazine at the same time. You didn't have the chamber open on the HK and thus didn't fill the magazine with water
@@richardarrieta5006
There's a few people that took the Mac 5 part against an HK and all the measurements were exactly the same. Even when they took it out to shoot it, they could not tell the difference which one was HK or which one was the Mac 5. Even trigger pull they were very impressed and said everything is also interchangeable too.
I think it looks like its open but he closed the bolt at 13;52
Here’s what I take from this video. The mac5 sales are eating into you sp5 sales.
FYI: I think that MAC just needs more break-in shooting because my AP5 fired the same way it did, when my PTR-9c fired like the SP5 did there, and if I recall, each requires at least a 500 round break-in. One thing you seem to not realize, the MP5 itself is built for 9mm parabellum NATO ammunition (FMJ) and DOES NOT have a feed ramp in the chamber to cycle hollow point ammo but the SP5 was built with a feed ramp feature as a selling point for that price tag along with the name. There's nothing wrong with the gun or the mags if they were both effectively running NATO (FMJ) ammo. The best choice I've seen for good defensive ammo for MP5 class guns is Norma's Non-Expanding 65 grain NXD Lead Free Defensive Ammunition. That's the choice I stick with.
This is a fact I'm positive that their ap5 isn't a new gun I've seen the same issues from both platforms
I was wondering if the H&K was new out of the box or broken in?
I didn't know about the difference in feed ramps! Good to know.
If they weren't cleaned and lubed the same and using the same magazines, I don't know that the reliability conclusions were fair.
always a guy making excuses for a company that owes them nothing
@@BetweentheCheeks00 Simple logic, dude. The conditions have to be the same for both to be a fair comparison, and magazines are often the source of unreliability issues with magazine-fed firearms. But don't let my Logic get in the way of your Feelings-Based Reasoning. Have some more Tofu.
@@TacShooter clearly you are the one in your feelings about your MAC. Don't try to gaslight me like you do everything else in your life.
@@BetweentheCheeks00 I don't own a MAC, Dumas. I am CONSIDERING the purchase of one, which is why I need a FAIR comparison. Go grow a brain!
@@BetweentheCheeks00Horrendous logic😂You type like a middle schooler who just learned they can debate over the Internet
Just purchased my first Mac 5 from you guys last week. Got it all the way to Florida in 3 days after I purchased it. Put a 150 rounds through it not one issue. So I bought another one 😊. My son bought this century Arms short version and the same no issues. Awesome weapons. Thanks fellas.
Have you checked your bolt gap?
150 rounds? Lmao
You bought 2? lol should’ve saved up to buy 1 HK instead
I’m not going to pay 2025 hellcat prices for a 96 cavalier.😂
@@ImlikeHIGHHHWhy?
Was the MAC thoroughly cleaned after the 300 rounds? Did the HK start out clean? You put the MAC at a bit of a disadvantage by not starting out even.
You may want to check the bolt gap on the MAC. I've heard stories on the bolt gap being under specs. When it's under it means that it will cycle like a typical blow back, with more recoil and more gas since the rollers are not engaging. This may be the reason why you feel you're getting more gas than the HK. The gap should be .25mm to .45mm (preferably .45mm).
That thing looks better every day. I own a PTR-9c and an AP5 also, for two different configurations. If one or mine goes down hard, this might be a consideration. If it's a dual push-pin trigger group you're one step closer to the MP5 than the SP5 is already. Ironically, I just got an Obsidian9 out of NFA jail and waited 2 months for a 3-lug mount for it.
I heard the MAC 5s button rifled barrel is actually likely more accurate than the SP5 hammer forged. Obviously the SP5 will last longer though.
@@MerpSquirrel 💯%... At the end, it's a pistol cartridge and to wear it out it'll take many thousands rounds
make sure you check your bolt gap on your MAC 5. my bolt gap was 0.15mm on my MAC 5. I have emailed SDS about this issue
How would a guy remedy that problem?
@@jeffreynye3019 I emailed SDS waiting on them to reply back. to remedy my guess would be new rollers but I am not sure. mine is brand new never fired by me.
@@jeffreynye3019different sized rollers
@@jeffreynye3019by not buying this clone crap. Save up for a genuine HK
This is what i found in regards to what the bolt gap range should be.. On an MP5, a bolt gap of.010” (technically 0.25mm) is the minimum spec,.018” is considered “ideal”, and.020” (technically 0.5mm) is the maximum spec., per H&K
Out of curiosity did you check the bolt gap on the mac5 ? I've heard that some have come with gap out of tolerance.
My guess might be the type of initial lubricant on the MAC. Maybe when exposed to water it gunges up? Next is the Zenith version.
Didn't know you huys had a channel. New subscriber. Might as well subscribe since you're always taking my gun money because of the deals you all post.
If the MAC clone is made on HK tooling amd licensed per HK? How can one be better than the other?
Quality control.
All firearms need a break in period.. testing a new one against a well loved one is dumb
I just got one from you guy with the brace
Thanks for the honest review!
Definitely appreciate this video! Do you guys think the Century Arms AP5 would score better than the Mac 5 on this test?
I imagine it would be similar other than the Ap5 having a better barrel
@@KennethSchmitt The button barrel might be why the MAC 5 had a tighter group so "better" is subjective. Most folks don't understand the differences with CHF and what it is really good for.
Chf = more durable?
@@Gunner-ll1zd They will last about the same in a semi auto. CHF can handle heat but is not as accurate.
@@oneijack98thanks for the heads up I did not know that and I’m glad you told me.
You gotta check the bolt gap. Also the guns HAVE to be cleaned and oiled before first use.
Very good review and tests.
How are these compared to other clones like the AP5 or the Zeniths? From what I can tell these are pretty serviceable for the price, especially for training/plinking.
The same as how 5.7mm is just a .22 mag.😂
@@lelandgaunt9985 What?
Great testing, thank you.
That's an amazing video thank you
Gents, thanks for this extremely thorough test. I just purchased the MAC-5 from y'all a week ago and looking forward to taking it to the range. Note taken on the HK mags being more reliable and I'm going to do a nice internal cleaning and oiling before I hit the range. One question: what did you do to get the MAC zero'd. The diopter will only affect elevation, correct?
Thanks for the purchase, I'm sure you will enjoy it!
@BattleHawkArmory - I'm considering buying my next tool from your company, so what is the shipping like to the Great NW?
As much as I want the MAC 5 the HK is your best option if you want more than a range toy.
You poured 5x more water into the action of the MAC-5 vs the HK, which saw a splash at best.
I did not see that. Looks like the same amount of water to me.
Fun fact. Hks run so well because they lubricate their guns with the tears of the poors.
@@gringotico1759 you got to pay to play. A main reason why I don't buy knock-off.
@@gringotico1759 Heckler and cucks fansoyos are the funniest. HK never made a good looking pistol, nothing on the level of Beretta m9a4 or Sig p226. Lost every military contract possible. Military adopted some HK M4s but now they tossed them into garbage pile and replaced with sig XM7 😎👌
Sp5 is literal trash with one takedown pin...
Big Dude looks like he had a round cookoff at 12:50 either that or he pulled the trigger when he didn't mean to when checking the gun
Yeah that finger was definitely still on the trigger
That gun was not hot enough to cook off. That was a hundred percent an ND.
Good eye!
Yeah, I noticed the somewhat negligent discharge also..
Willing to bet the locking pieces are different degrees between the two guns. The MAC is a part for part copy but it might be running a higher degree.
I suspect they're shipping with the 120⁰ locking pieces that Century Arms AP5/AP5-Ps are shipping with.
I will say my MAC 5 bolt gap was dead on to HK spec at .018
@@oneijack98Nice! I heard of a few people who received their MAC 5s with out-of-spec bolt gaps, but I'm hearing from more whose MACs are in-spec. I'll be receiving mine either Sunday or Monday, so my fingers are crossed. Were you able to determine what degree locking piece it has?
@khoonda Haven't really messed with that yet. I've been fighting a magpul SEF grip module fit issue, Going to have to do some cutting at the rear pin mount. But the trigger pack dropped right in without problems.
MAC had trouble with water and grit on a new gun. Tighter tolerances? Loose (sloppy) guns usually run fine.
Thank you for doing the torture test. Scientifically, it would be interesting to know why the MAC 5 performed differently with the water and dirt dump test. The MAC 5 allegedly is the best 1:1 clone on the market and will accept all HK OEM parts. When you disassembled the MAC 5 later, did you see any clusters of dirt internally that would have cause the jams?
After we finished shooting for the video, we broke the MAC 5 down and gave it a deeper cleaning. There was a large chunk of dirt keeping it from going fully into battery when firing subsequent rounds, but slapping the charging handle would always make it fire the first round.
@@BattleHawkArmory did you guys check your bolt gap?
These guy's have awesome deals
Thank you..i just got
Accuracy test ?
Isnt the mac and the ap5 the same freaking thing? As they are both made in turkey by MKE???
@@thegunbox81 The MAC5 is made by Mertsav.
i think yall was trying to make the mac look bad
Marcelina Common
Once again, you get what you pay for
Beat me to it
That’s why I don’t buy clones. HK all the way.
Same . My Turkish ap5 was junk
90 rds isn't a real burn down
If it was to trust my life HK........
They are all clones. Unless you running full auto. Its not an mp5
The big fella on the right is holding my exact weapon. Mine is SBR'd, suppressed using the tri lug. HK SP5 is a wonderful sub gun.
Sig rose 😂
Could you guys show us the bolt gap? Two I have checked were out of spec despite running great. Long term it would become an issue. I’m holding off on buying until I see a few with the correct bolt gap.
HK: Go be poor somewhere else.
Sample size of one, but the MAC is 1/3 price for a reason.
Thanks for posting.
I call this test flawed for lack of number of test guns, could've been a gun out of spec 🤷♂️
Also the water test was flawed. Bolt was open on the MAC 5, Bolt was closed on the SP5 when the dumped water on it
Buy once, cry once.
Especially on a neutered gun from the 60’s.😂
@@lelandgaunt9985age has no bearing over superiority when it's battle proven for decades 🙈😉🙌🏻
Exactly my thoughts!
I’m the same way when it comes to OG to clones.
Just isn’t the same.
Love these guns just not in 9mm
Can't compete with German engineering
Not sure why anyone would buy HK sp5. It has only one takedown pin in the receiver ( imagine having ar15 with one take down pin lol) , modified sights , modified mag catch and the receiver. Its not military spec MP5, but good enough for Heckler and cuck fanboys. Not sure about MAC, but mke ap5 is closest thing you can get to civilian MP5.
I’m okay having a so-called “clone” better than paying 2025 scat pack msrp price for a used 92 cavalier.😂
@lelandgaunt9985 you can get two for that price, Mac 5 and the K
@@lelandgaunt9985you're analogy is confusing ! Are you saying the sp5 is a Taurus?
I quit watching the video at 15:58, the MAC-5 failed the water test, it wasn't that much water to begin with and it failed. Unreliable, not ready for combat. You get what you pay for.
Right, because the majority of people are buying these because they intend to go to war with them, and not because they have extra money and really like 80s action movies.
@@CoryIsMyName can't wait to see the mud test and drop test. A little bit of water was hardly a "torture test". SDS is known for making replica junk.
He commented that there was alot of dirt when they inspected it later. I'd love to see more testing.
@@CoryIsMyName when you don't go to war with the gun, buy one that jams. LOL
@@rustynail246 It's not that it jams, it's that it jams when you pour water into it. That's like complaining about how a car won't start when you pour sugar into the tank. The things that you're complaining about aren't real problems.
Lets face it, you get what you pay for and you don't get what you don't pay for. You gotta pay to play. The HK clearly illustrates this
You get what you pay for... Stop being poor
I learned that lesson . HK or nothing.
Could I purchase a firearm from you if I greatly dislike death metal intros??
Ugh.
You order Chit, You get chit.
I was really thinking about that Mac 5 But after it got wet and your sand tests I was totally turned off about it. I'll stick with the CZ scorpio..Thank you
Did you happen to notice the bolt was forward on the SP5 vs. Dumping it into the MAC 5s open chamber?
@@jaynecobb7964 This.