Just build a quality grinder, anything that's not the quality you want shove through a recycler and put the ingredients back into the input belt so they can be used to make higher quality stuff with better chances to roll higher quality
@@cyberkraken1606is too much wastage (in my opinion) to use recyclers. My approach is to shift quality to the left and use quality mods in the ore miners (and maybe smelters) -- then feed that high quality ore/plates into dedicated sub factory to guarantee making items of that quality with no need for any recyclers.
@@beepbop6697 Recyclers are mandatory for getting legendary intermediates that involve less than 3 or 4 crafting steps (so, most of them) in any reasonable quantity. But other than that, yeah. For stuff like iron gears and green circuits I imagine it's best to recycle rares into legendaries for any end products that need them (gun turrets for example) then send normal and uncommons to the next intermediates (engines, red circuits etc) to minimise the amount of recycling you have to do. Just recycle grinding the end product from normal to legendary is absolutely a waste of resources though. Recycling multiple times completely destroys any extra materials you might have gotten from prod modules, even if you're getting 200% prod per step. You also have to build a recycle grinding factory for every single machine. It's a fun math puzzle for sure
@@andresmartinezramos7513 finding people who know how to test software may have been a better choice, but i understand why Wube did it this way. They're sort of hoping that content creators are good at both finding and providing instructions on reproducing bugs, which is absolutely not a skill required for content creators to obtain in order to become successful.
I was very sceptical at first, but now I'm really excited for quality. I love that there isn't a meta way to do quality just yet. I will try to make higher quality intermediates to get components for my first spaceship. Maybe that's a terrible idea, I can't wait to find out!
depends on whether you want the first PLATFORMS to move or not. If it's the platform just making science in obrit and doesn't need to travel, higher quality stuff isn't as important (still helps of course) but in the platforms that move, having higher quality things like better solar panels, better arms, better furnaces, crushers, turrets, etc help when the ship needs to travel between planets. EDIT: Oh, and better quality walls for protecting the platform helps, too.
10:00 if you want high quality science labs you need high quality belts. If you want high quality guns or high quality engines (to make high quality bots), you need the high quality pipes.
what they don't tell you is that tanks at high quality also see boosts to their damage and range of their various weapons. They are more worth it than it seems
I feel like I will make an early chain once I get quality modules and electric furnaces. Use modules on miners to get a bit of uncommon ore, send that ore into furnaces to get uncommon plates and a bit of rare plates. Get as many early intermediates and use those to guarantee craft the stuff you really want at uncommon or rare quality with chances of upgrades to epic/legendary. I wonder if you can theoretically get legendary quality modules super early doing this.
@@shortwave737 yes for sure. Depending on how finicky it is dealing with all the different quality items & overall process. I was thinking of spending more time on Nauvis getting all my factory up at least one quality but it might be simpler to wait until the recycler & better quality & tier modules. But we'll see.
In theory you could craft a power armour in an assembling machine with a couple quality 1 modules in it and immediately get a rare power armour from it, epic and legendary are locked behind research on other planets but once you have the research there's nothing stopping you from getting legendary quality stuff super cheap just because you put a single craft worth of normal quality ingredients in and happened to roll a legendary quality thing, but yes you could put quality modules in the entire production chain to make it easier to get higher quality stuff but you'd also have to build a much bigger factory or a factory with a lot of combinator logic in order to make sure your factory can even handle having higher quality intermediates flowing through your belts
Hey JD. This video really helps right now. I'm at the point in my base when I need to start making modules. I know. I'm a slow player but I can only play on the weekends and this game is suddenly hard again. Thanks
i wonder if mods will start using quality aswell and if they can "unlock special bonuses" based on quality or if quality can only do "do better " like iduno maybe a modded drill of higher quality could have a defensive robot or turret be nearby or ontop or suddenly be a build in logi chest bcus its quality blue instead of just green of it or something like dad
Even if quality modules can only do "do better" you could have a mining drill with a base defensive robot count of 0 and then make it so starting at uncommon that goes up to 1, then 2, then 3, then 5 Same for a defensive laser, first the count is 0 with a range of 0 and then higher quality increases that Same with the inbuilt logi chest, first the inventory size is 0 then quality makes that better to "add" a logi chest At least rather than quality adding more stats at higher levels, so you can see all stats at low levels
Dont know much, but i made the mistake of looking at the mod portal recently and already saw someone post a mod that added *many* more tiers of quality to go with insane upgrade potential on your stuff, along with mods that just add quality effects to other items (like belts increasing up to 2x speed with quality)
@@Theo-The-Kitten well da streamer peps already cried about quality belts being useless since only HP goes up so more speed mod makes sense, or maybe rainbow rgb music belt mode so da entire factory vibes xD
I feel that quality will be a huge rabbit hole for me, putting quality modules in way too many places and gather up huge amounts of chests with uncommon and rare items 😅
I imagine the pain of managing quality items so that legendary pipe is used in an engine (for your spidertron down the line) instead of some backwater oil liquefaction processing plant.
It's the feature I'm most looking forward to tbh, although I'll probably not interact too much with it before I unlock quality module 3 and epic quality, or legendary if it's not too far down the tech tree, but it probably will be (hard to judge how long it might take to get there yet). Although perhaps it's not crazy to put quality in everything on nauvis, even just rare quality 2's, siphon off quality products with a splitter from all production into an active provider and just accumulate some parts passively as the factory runs for power armor and some platform items purely via the bot network, without interfering too much with the regular factory. What I'm really looking forward to, though, is setting up a real dedicated factory late game where everything get's recycled and upcycled into legendary quality. I just want to see the trains come in an only a trickly of usable materials go out, that sounds super fun to me. What I'm curious about is if there's a clear "winner" for location to make quality on. Clearly you'll need to make some everywhere, for the unique products on each planet, but whether it's best to have the vast majority of products made on say Nauvis, with quality ores from all resources and work up the chain or on Fulgora, with quality recycling to get a kickstart on higher quality endproducts to recycle, is something I definitely want to find out once the game is out. I have no doubt quality will end up being the most complex system in the game ultimately. Plus, I love idle games, and quality production really triggers that itch I think. Oh, and quality robots sound amazing to me. I always loved the robot battery research mod (made by klonan iirc?). Finally it's native to the game, and quite highly priced too, which I do like.
@@TimDrogin I'm not so sure. I think you skip a potential quality step by doing molten metal. If ore can come out as quality, turning it to plate directly might be better. But I suppose yes, since it's basically you can just recycle more freely. That said I never considered nauvis ore to be finite either, even less so now if legendary miners consume so little of a patch. Patches might essentially become infinite on nauvis too.
12:30 - Just overstating your great point on the grid size, 11x11 is 21% better than 10x10! A legendary power armor has 125% increase compared with a normal one (Not sure why someone would still be using power armor at that stage, though)
To me it sounds like the best thing to do (maybe after quality modules, depending on how fluids are handled) is first upgrade your base resources (iron/copper/plastic) and anything that uses fluids (unless you can get quality fluids or they don't matter) from there you can split off a special line(s) for your quality ingredients as you know anything you make with those will be guaranteed to be the same quality and you should be making base resources in mass anyways and you'll be using all of the base resources anyways so nothing goes to waste. No need to make 10 power armors that you then have to trash when you could just make 1 with your higher quality ingredients. You can even upgrade as time goes on... so rather than just having quality ores you then upgrade your smelters to then have even higher chance of rare quality, should get enough at that point to upgrade what ever you want to rare (could even go with just one miner/furnace to start as you produce so much even that singular one of each step would get you a lot of quality rare base resources)
I think quality in smelters before miners would be more efficient use of the modules as it takes several miners to feed a smelter, so it would take less modules to get the same output. After smelters, it gets interesting what you upgrade next. Im thinking a small line of gears and chips and other early intermediates using the upgraded plates. And only after that upgrade a set of miners. Then scaling up from there based on your needs. Cant wait for the data analysis people to do the min/max payoff analysis.
@@cyberkraken1606 If you are only getting it at a 10% rate the base needs to only be 10% bigger per bonus resource. and technicly not even that due to you still getting the same "amount" of resource total. lets say your minors where producing enough metal for a 24 furnace set up... to handle the amount of quality you'd only need 3 for uncommon (rounding up) and 1 for rares. and you'd need only 22 (rounding up) for the normal ores so it's not even adding that much to it. It's even easier on things like crafting stations which can only take in set quality materials... just have it all on the same line but have a few dedicated crafters for handling the quality on the same line (though personally I'd still separate it off due to an inserter maybe not being fast enough to grab 2 qualities right next to each other)
good points on the quality stuff, except: for items that you don't need quality of, but can't use productivity modules, it is STILL worth putting quality modules in the assemblers for the purpose of UPCYCLING the results into getting high quality materials for other production chains. belts/pipes is an example of this....can't use productivity modules in them, so go ahead and put quality modules in the assemblers....for the results that come back with rare/epic belts...recycle those for high quality iron gears and plate.
@@beepbop6697 Yup. that's also a production chain you can set up. wasn't thinking about the bots. There are a load of other examples that can help get extra quality stuff for base building early on, too. such as: putting quality modules in the assemblers that make furnaces for the purple science. the normal quality results get used for science, (and you can also do that for the uncommon furnaces) and then put the rare+ furnaces into the logistics system to be used elsewhere. To balance this: you'll need to also be putting quality modules in the assemblers/EM plants making modules, and the builds that are outputting rail. Then recycle the excess/imbalances that pop up and use those recycling chains to upcycle materials further. In the red/green science builds you can use this same methodology to get a source of quality plate, gears, and inserters. In the yellow science build you can do a similar thing to get quality engines and robot frames.
My plan is to only use quality modules in the electric miners -- then feed that quality ore into dedicated subfactory to guarantee to make items of a particular quality. No recycler loops needed, and avoids all the "percentage chance to roll" a high quality item. Legendary iron/copper ore is guaranteed to make Legendary anything that the belts of legendary ore is fed into.
as far as i know, you can only mine up to rare quality ore, and then when you smelt it it can become legendary. and i think its like 20% or something, but thats with legendary stuff already. But yes, this means that 4% of all the ore you mine will end up as a legendary plate, so this quality grind is way easier than people seem to think. But as epic and legendary is locked behind progression, mining ore with quality is probably the way to go, so you can make all the rare stuff you want.
Quality armor and equipment is really good, before you can get the top armor (from fulgora research I think?). As I played, even before going to other planets, I put quality modules in all my miners, so I got some green and blue ores, smelting them I got more blue plates. Then q2 modules in coal and plastic, etc, I crafted from the bottom with a chance tp get better product everywhere. So after several hours waiting for blue ingredients, I finally got myself a blue PA Mk2. Huge improvement, since normal 10x10 armor = 100 tiles, rare 12x12 = 144 tiles which is already 1.5 times bigger. Don't bother with quality reactors, they need so many blue chips that you'll never get them and with bigger eq grid you can fit 4 normal ones. Get rare Armor, then rare roboports, then rare exoskeleton if you like to run fast, that's all you really need. Rare roboports are practically equal to Mk2, with pretty small resource cost compared to reactor and they will help you more with more bots and x4 recharge slots. One of problems of trying for quality before Fulgora is that you can't get rid of some products you don't really need. I tried to make science from green quality ingredients since they are used just like common science, just last longer in labs. Also, note that purple quality is locked behind other planet so you cannot get it at the start. So when crafting from blue ingredients, put productivity modules to get more product, since quality modules won't give you purple products at this time in game.
So far my answer has been to ignore the quality system entirely. With all the bot chests unlocked I might mess with it now that I can use them to zip them over to a dedicated quality workshop or something. Not a system I can be bothered to care about.
just put blue quality on the miners themselves and then you smelt that in electric furnaces to try to roll for purple plates, and then you use quality again in assembler and try to roll for legendary craft
Quick question, can inserters pull stuff out of the rocket silos in 2.0 when it has logistics enabled? If it can then it can be used to build bot malls with only blue science and cheese kovarex enrichment Edit: according to some images in Factorio discord this is true, Let's gooooooooo
on that second gear run through, am i right in thinking that if you didn't have any quality modules on it but still fed in quality plates, they would still get green quality gears, obv without the chance of getting blue ones?
That's called a quality grinder, it's a very effective strategy especially with higher quality quality modules, don't forget to put high quality productivity modules in your crafters that are crafting legendary items especially in your quality grinders so you get even more legendary stuff out!
A recycler wastes 75% of everything that goes into it, and even when loaded with quality modules, does not guarantee quality output -- so in actuality, you are wasting far more than 75% of resources feeding into these recycler loops.
A very neat video! So I'm wondering - is it still true that you can't speed beacon your assemblers when you are making Quality? On one hand that kind of makes sense, on the other hand if you want to Quality most of the things, it's kind of forcing you to build big bases for processing things... Also, I wonder what will be the Quality meta. It seems that when you're going for Legendary quality, it might be best to just roll the base components into high Quality early and then just make everything out of Legendary parts? Like, instead of trying to make Legendary Power Armour by rolling and recycling it 1000 times, it might just be easier to make a million Iron Gears and keep rolling them until you get Legendary Iron Plates and then roll up from there. Otherwise you are kind of stuck having to have 5 different crafting machines for each part of the process making different quality level components and then getting up-cycled. But yeah, I wonder if it will be better to do Quality -> Productivity or Productivity -> Quality. So many things to consider!
Speed (at least the tier 3s) has a -2.5% quality penalty, and quality modules have 5% speed penalties. You can use speed beacons with on assemblers with quality modules, though they will reduce the effectiveness of them, so there's a trade-off that can be made between speed and quality in order to maximise the number of quality products per unit time. Worth adding to this is that quality boosts the primary effect of modules, but not the penalties, but beacon transmission power applies equally to both the buffs _and_ penalties given by the modules in them, and beacon transmission power increases with the beacon's quality, but decreases with the number of beacons. A top-down approach to quality (modules in finished products) vs a bottom-up one (modules in the base intermediates) is another question you're going to need to figure out. In terms of quality output per unit input, which option is optimal and where to use prod modules changes depending on the strengths of the modules and what building you're using, so there isn't going to be a one-size-fits-all solution. The most consistent factor will probably be that a bottom-up approach will have more complex logistics in order to sort the intermediates, where as a top-down approach can generally just shove everything into the same box.
You will still use low quality for lots of things, science packs for example, which is the largest drain of resources on your factory. Or pipes to expand that huge oil processing plant. Or belts.
I will disagree on your point about thruster efficiency I don't have the game, obv, but I saw the tooltop on the *thrust*. That thrust is increased by quality! Which means, that yes the efficiency of a thruster does increase with quality! It doesn'd reduce fuel consumption per unit of time of the engine, but a Rare thruster is worth 1.5 thrusters in the amount of work it does.
Місяць тому
It is true that they do increase efficiency overall - fewer thrusters means less spsce which means less drag. So if you compute real thrust by subtracting the drag you get higher real thrust for higher quality thrusters. The real question is how large is this effect. I don't care to compute it rn but it might be that the difference is so small it's not really worth it.
I feel like the 'meta' is going to be getting a couple of quality miners/pumps/etc and just using that to snowball the quality of basic materials until you're guaranteed crafting everything legendary
you are probably looking at 90%+ wasted materials when it comes to crafting legendary items so unless you have limited space, the basic stuff will still be better. (basically epic+ stuff is mostly for your ship or fun after the game is "done")
@@Oratory1989 what I'm taking about is the "guaranteed" system unless I misunderstood something. Input quality common quality materials to get a common quality product, save anything that procs the higher tier and repeat until your miners or whatever are spitting out legendary ore.
@@Slywyn miners will never do anything better than rare ores as far as i know, as it can only procc "2 up", and i would assume that there are no uncommon, or rare orpatches.
@@Slywyn yes, legendary miners will not give better ores, they will just be better miners. However, getting qualitymodules in miners ASAP and stockpiling the quality ores are by far the best thing to do.
For the setup at 5:00 (where 10% of the gears become uncommon, and then 10% of the uncommons become rare), is the 10% uncommon to rare based on the quality modules or still just a static 10% as originally explained in the FFF?
I love seeing this info drop. But what the hell, are you gonna just let those trees stay there right next to your assemblers just looking at them with disgust and not blow them up.
The recycler is on fulgora the scrap planet as you need to recycle scrap into high level items that you can then recycle into their ingredients in order to turn those items into the items you need
What are the effects of Quality on Heat Exchangers and Steam Turbines? Do those buildings merely consume inputs at a higher rate (which is what I was afraid Quality Reactors might do), or do the Space Age outputs exceed the standard proportion with the inputs?
I plan to add quality with the bus. Just before the product got into the belt, I will filtered to put in a chest. I will store them for item worth it, like power armor or card.
Hey JD, do you get higher quality ore with quality modules inside the mining drills ? I mean if we are going to use the quality modules - we need to do so as early in the production chain as possible. And then if you use the rare quality ore to feed to quality powered furnaces - you could get to legendary iron plates, right ? (provided the tech is unlocked)
Yes. But: it’s apparently an absolute mess to deal with all quality levels so early on. Though you can set up a quality mine only dedicated to the quality factory without making a big mess in the science part
@@Erichteia Planning it out in my head it doesn't seem like it would be that hard? Just put a splitter at the belt between unloading and your forges, set it to divert anything above normal quality and send that off to a dedicated quality line.
@@Palewolf0Inubashiri thats exactly my intention. Just filter out the non-normal ore and direct it separate smelters. I would get a ton of quality ingredients since the basic resurce production in pieces is the highest in any factory.
@@Palewolf0Inubashiri if you only do it on mines, it’s indeed fine. Though you need to separate all different qualities at every stage, so the complexity quickly ramps up. In general, it’s much easier to quality loop some specific intermediates where you have a lot of productivity
@@sashamedentsiy8204 You will also quickly find out that your quality ingredients aren't in the proportions that you'd need, because you can't directly control how much quality ore of what type you are getting.
Why don't they have the "Any" option for quality? That way you can have a certain level of flexibility and backwards compatibility. I might be producing iron plates with quality, and want to feed both common and uncommon into the main science bus, while just filtering off the rare, epic, and legendary iron plates. I get why they have the filters, but is the option of disabling the filters too much to ask?
Wouldn't it be better to craft things with the same quality ingredients rather than rely on the quality modules? Ex. Use Rare Steel plates and Rare Red Circuits to craft Rare energy shields rather than rely on the dice roll for the quality. Of course, probably not ideal for everything but I hope it works like this. Another ex: Use the quality ingredients strat for asteroid colector since it's pretty cheap (number of ingredients), but for the rocket silo it would be pretty hard LOL
For the things you most want in quality and tend to cycle through the least, absolutely. For things you tend to use more frequently and whose quality bonus is more of a "nice to have", then I'd just use the modules in the final assemblers and slowly accumulate quality products that can be used in strategic locations.
Yeah I’m not sure on the whole quality thing….. Factorio’s whole thing is that it’s deterministic. I know what my build is, I know 48 furnaces fills a belt fully. It makes me uncomfortable that one build could need that many, another could only need 45 furnaces. Seems icky!!
@@ryanhamstra49 Then you have 2 choices: don't upgrade your furnaces and keep them all as common stone furnaces until you can upgrade the belts to red and all the furnaces to common steel furnaces, and then not upgrade further until you have enough electric furnaces, modules, and beacons in the right quality. Or... you can _suffer_ and slowly upgrade things in-place one at a time knowing that you're producing slightly more than you can supply or retrieve. This was the case before quality. Quality just adds another axis to the upgrade paths making it harder to wait until everything is available to fully upgrade everything at once.
Adding them in that priority sounds reasonable, though if you're mass producing modules and have spare qual 1s, there's really not much reason not to just stick them in every assembler in your mall. Even if their bonuses are completely useless, they can still be used for recycling later to get quality materials. Similarly, early game green science builds may as well include quality modules in the belt and inserter assemblers since they don't accept prod, and if nothing else, the belts can be used to get quality iron later. Overall, one of the mechanics I'm very excited for. P.S. Tanks have an equipment grid? _On top_ of being able to remote control them‽ Holy shit; you don't need to wait until spidertrons or place roboports everywhere in order to do remote construction! And that's in addition to being able to engage in remote extermination pre-spidertron. It would be even better if the RTS tool could be used to control them, but just this alone is already a game-changer.
As explained in the video the problem with putting quality modules in everything is you then need at least 1 assembler capable of crafting items with that higher quality stuff, no point having uncommon iron plates if you don't have an uncommon iron gear wheel assembler to assemble that uncommon iron plate into an uncommon iron gear wheel, though with a bit of circuit network magic or a lot of space you could theoretically make a base capable of handling those situations should they arise
@@cyberkraken1606 I said every assembler _in your mall._ That is still somewhat hyperbole as it doesn't really include the assemblers making intermediates directly within the mall for the reasons you gave, but most things in the mall will be finished products, and unless they're already getting max quality inputs or you just don't have spare quality modules, those are the assemblers that there's little concern about dealing with the resulting quality.
I'm using 4 level 2 quality modules in my assembler machine crafting level 2 quality modules, and I'm getting nothing but normal quality modules even after thousands of crafts. Why is this happening?
Science packs are worth more science at higher quality, so it works out as 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 science packs worth of science per science pack, everything else assume it's just more hitpoints until you're in game and can take a look in 3 days time from now
The bonus that higher quality gives depends on the kind of item. It might be more hitpoints, more production speed, higher area of effect, or (for drills and pumpjacks) less resource usage, or higher grid size (personal equipment), or more damage (ammo), boost to module effect (modules and beacon)...
I think that the most efficient way is to first craft a lot of quality modules and insert them into all assemblers, drills and furnaces and pull out quality items with manipulators at the beginning of the belt. Over time you will accumulate enough quality components with which you will be able to craft expensive final products (power armor, drones, robot ports, etc.) with 100% chance. This is profitable, since you will need a lot of quality modules for the next tier anyway. And you craft components by the ton, but hoping for luck and crafting 10 power armor suits, 9 of which you will throw away... meh... is too wasteful at the beginning of the game.
it's definitely a very ignorable thing, or something I would setup later in the game using its own sort of separate resources. Something like a larger radius to a power pole or beacon is more relevant than, say, getting more power, because when was the last time you felt you didn't have the resources for a power blueprint? MAYBE it's more important on later planets making expensive items with fewer buildings, idk. I think in the future when more familiar with everything I would probably do a full quality kind of run or something along those lines, though, I bet that would be fun
It _is_ a very ignorable thing. I won't be ignoring it because it seems fun, and it probably won't be ignorable at the megabase stage, but before that point you can pretty much choose to engage with it whenever you want, as you will never get a quality output without either quality inputs or placing quality modules in machines.
It's so ignorable you can just turn it off and never even worry about it, stick with the factorio experience you know and love without the added complexity of quality
@@angeldude101you can just turn quality off, then you don't even have the ability to craft quality modules or see anything to do with quality, you can still beat the game without ever touching quality
@@cyberkraken1606 Yes, but while that sounds easier, it also sounds less fun. (In fact, the "easier" part isn't even really a positive in this case.) I've come to call my approach to factorio "reward complexity with power", and Quality is a perfect example of that, adding a lot of logistical and mathematical complexity to keep track of various quality items and entities, and rewards facing said complexity with extremely powerful tools. "stick with the factorio experience you know and love without the added complexity of quality" Every part of that sentence just further _encourages_ me to use Quality. I _want_ the added complexity, and I _want_ to diverge from the traditional vanilla factorio experience. That's why I play overhaul mods. They provide both, and so does quality on a smaller scale.
Every game I played that had Items that have levels or Quality of that items turned the game or mod turned in to S**T. This game is about auto crafting for end game. You'll spend to much time hand picking parts, and with no recycling of the bad or lower levels items is just more C**P.
Why would you roll for quality end products when you could just be making the ingredients quality and crafting a guaranteed quality item? At least the failed rolls on ingredients are still useful to the factory.
I am sure as this gets more familiar, quality will make sense. However, to me it merely looks like a complicated time sink addition to a game that's already a time sink to justify charging $35 for a decent. Sure, for advanced players this adds lots of things to do down the line, but for beginners/intermediate players, this just seems like a horrible addition.
So you can select the epic recipe from the beginning but you can't get them even by chance when crafting rares? So epic stuff can only drop after you research it? That's bollocks. The higher tier crafting recipes should be locked not the chance to drop a higher tier. After all the recipe guarantees the selected tier or higher.
Iiuc Epic & Legendary quality can only start being gotten after you get the research. This means you are capped to rare quality on at least the first planet. This is to prevent you from farming until legendary then going to your first new planet & trivialising the experience.
The recipe may not be locked but you'd still need to get epic ingredients for it which you can't do until you unlock the ability to be able to roll epic quality stuff
I don't like that you can't mix ingredient qualities. It's just going to make it tedious having 5 quality levels that can't mix at all. Instead if should be chance based what quality you get with higher quality ingredients giving a higher output chance. An uncommon wire and rare plate should have a 50% chance to make a rare circuit.
I do not really understand why you focus so hard on putting quality items onto these crafts and potentially get better quality items. Wouldnt it be way better to put quality modules in miners/smelters, seperate the uncommon/rare items and feed the normal ones onto the bus? Doing the same esssentially with all basic items (gears, circuts etc ) until you have enough to craft whatever uncommon/rare item you want. As for epic and legendary quality, I think the only option would be to use the basic items that are uncommon/rare (you should have quite a bit at this point in time in storage) to craft uncommon/rare basic items with modules and therefore getting the epic/legendary basic items until you have enough. To BP this and build this, would be quite the fun project as you essentially have 2 loops you need to consider, as well as up to 5 outputs of each basic item.
I thought the same thing, I'd rather not waste resources on crafting 10s maybe 100s of armour mk2s when I can go for it with raw resources by hand. But maybe I'm just missing or not understanding something
I hate the quailty shit. It ruined my starter base i use to start a game. I wish they never added itso it could ruin the automated crafting. Any crafting machine should have accept any at least
This video sucked. Mentioned only the obvious things that all can see at the first glance, avoiding all the difficult topics of making it all work in the factory.
Quality is deceptively arse. It's really a Time & Resource pig. But if you're gonna do it build a special system for it. Beacon EVERY to max, has each assembly machine a recycler (where you recycle lesser qualitys) and ONLY accept Legendarys at the end. It'll take time and plenty of baby sitting. For dozens of items.. 😱🤮 it's not fun..
The spaghetti is going to be wild with quality filtering.
Just build a quality grinder, anything that's not the quality you want shove through a recycler and put the ingredients back into the input belt so they can be used to make higher quality stuff with better chances to roll higher quality
Also quality will screw the ratios, as there will be variable quality machines and times, unless you make everything the same quality
@@cyberkraken1606is too much wastage (in my opinion) to use recyclers. My approach is to shift quality to the left and use quality mods in the ore miners (and maybe smelters) -- then feed that high quality ore/plates into dedicated sub factory to guarantee making items of that quality with no need for any recyclers.
My friend loves belt spaghetti and wants to do quality, recycling, and sorting shenanigans. I love trains. We wanna go to Fulgora first haha
@@beepbop6697 Recyclers are mandatory for getting legendary intermediates that involve less than 3 or 4 crafting steps (so, most of them) in any reasonable quantity. But other than that, yeah. For stuff like iron gears and green circuits I imagine it's best to recycle rares into legendaries for any end products that need them (gun turrets for example) then send normal and uncommons to the next intermediates (engines, red circuits etc) to minimise the amount of recycling you have to do.
Just recycle grinding the end product from normal to legendary is absolutely a waste of resources though. Recycling multiple times completely destroys any extra materials you might have gotten from prod modules, even if you're getting 200% prod per step. You also have to build a recycle grinding factory for every single machine. It's a fun math puzzle for sure
I. Want. To. Play. This. So. Bad.
Honesty hate that the embargo dropped a whole week before. I wish it was only from this Friday.
@@james_90It makes sense from a gamedev perspective as you get to iron out bugs before mass realease
@@andresmartinezramos7513 finding people who know how to test software may have been a better choice, but i understand why Wube did it this way. They're sort of hoping that content creators are good at both finding and providing instructions on reproducing bugs, which is absolutely not a skill required for content creators to obtain in order to become successful.
SOOOOOOOOOOOOOON tm
@@andresmartinezramos7513 not complaining about the beta access they've had over a month. Only the embargo dropping a week before launch.
I was very sceptical at first, but now I'm really excited for quality. I love that there isn't a meta way to do quality just yet. I will try to make higher quality intermediates to get components for my first spaceship. Maybe that's a terrible idea, I can't wait to find out!
depends on whether you want the first PLATFORMS to move or not. If it's the platform just making science in obrit and doesn't need to travel, higher quality stuff isn't as important (still helps of course) but in the platforms that move, having higher quality things like better solar panels, better arms, better furnaces, crushers, turrets, etc help when the ship needs to travel between planets. EDIT: Oh, and better quality walls for protecting the platform helps, too.
take a shot every time you hear quality!
[Dies at 2:30]
Make sure it's quality alcohol
Drink water.
Guaranteed liver failure
10:00 if you want high quality science labs you need high quality belts. If you want high quality guns or high quality engines (to make high quality bots), you need the high quality pipes.
This took me a moment until I finally remembered that belts and pipes are also ingredients for other products.
what they don't tell you is that tanks at high quality also see boosts to their damage and range of their various weapons. They are more worth it than it seems
I feel like I will make an early chain once I get quality modules and electric furnaces. Use modules on miners to get a bit of uncommon ore, send that ore into furnaces to get uncommon plates and a bit of rare plates. Get as many early intermediates and use those to guarantee craft the stuff you really want at uncommon or rare quality with chances of upgrades to epic/legendary. I wonder if you can theoretically get legendary quality modules super early doing this.
Iiuc Epic & Legendary quality is locked behind a research, as to prevent you from just farming up high quality stuff before even leaving the planet.
@Willow4526 oh.
Well I can still do it and build up huge stockpiles of rare plates and early components.
@@shortwave737 yes for sure. Depending on how finicky it is dealing with all the different quality items & overall process. I was thinking of spending more time on Nauvis getting all my factory up at least one quality but it might be simpler to wait until the recycler & better quality & tier modules. But we'll see.
In theory you could craft a power armour in an assembling machine with a couple quality 1 modules in it and immediately get a rare power armour from it, epic and legendary are locked behind research on other planets but once you have the research there's nothing stopping you from getting legendary quality stuff super cheap just because you put a single craft worth of normal quality ingredients in and happened to roll a legendary quality thing, but yes you could put quality modules in the entire production chain to make it easier to get higher quality stuff but you'd also have to build a much bigger factory or a factory with a lot of combinator logic in order to make sure your factory can even handle having higher quality intermediates flowing through your belts
@@Willow4526it's going to be easier to wait until after you get the recycler as then you can make a quality grinder
Ah yes the "Friendship Pellets", when you "befriend" all the wild "friends" of a planets! Also all Trains are definitely always your "friends"! 😇🤪🤔
Hey JD. This video really helps right now. I'm at the point in my base when I need to start making modules. I know. I'm a slow player but I can only play on the weekends and this game is suddenly hard again. Thanks
Thanks, been so confused about quality and didn't realize how far down it goes
i wonder if mods will start using quality aswell and if they can "unlock special bonuses" based on quality or if quality can only do "do better " like iduno maybe a modded drill of higher quality could have a defensive robot or turret be nearby or ontop or suddenly be a build in logi chest bcus its quality blue instead of just green of it or something like dad
Probably a pretty easy mod to make. Considering alot of factorio is scripted in lua
Even if quality modules can only do "do better" you could have a mining drill with a base defensive robot count of 0 and then make it so starting at uncommon that goes up to 1, then 2, then 3, then 5
Same for a defensive laser, first the count is 0 with a range of 0 and then higher quality increases that
Same with the inbuilt logi chest, first the inventory size is 0 then quality makes that better to "add" a logi chest
At least rather than quality adding more stats at higher levels, so you can see all stats at low levels
Dont know much, but i made the mistake of looking at the mod portal recently and already saw someone post a mod that added *many* more tiers of quality to go with insane upgrade potential on your stuff, along with mods that just add quality effects to other items (like belts increasing up to 2x speed with quality)
@@Theo-The-Kitten well da streamer peps already cried about quality belts being useless since only HP goes up so more speed mod makes sense, or maybe rainbow rgb music belt mode so da entire factory vibes xD
11x11 is not 10% better than 10x10, its 21% better
useless , you can only fit more batterys/solar panels in there 12x12 is a significant increase practically
I feel that quality will be a huge rabbit hole for me, putting quality modules in way too many places and gather up huge amounts of chests with uncommon and rare items 😅
Imagine you have a warehouse mod chest with 1800 stacks of rare plates and your factory shutting down due to lack of iron?
@@Carlos-ux7gvthe factory grows
This all makes no sense; I'm very excited.
Calls to action got me, well done
Now I want to see an "All Quality Grind" playthrough! It will be all legendary! 😇🤪🤯
If it comes out rare put it in the shredder.
I imagine the pain of managing quality items so that legendary pipe is used in an engine (for your spidertron down the line) instead of some backwater oil liquefaction processing plant.
Thankfully different qualities are treated as separate items so you can't accidentally build with legendary pipes unless you explicitly choose to.
It's the feature I'm most looking forward to tbh, although I'll probably not interact too much with it before I unlock quality module 3 and epic quality, or legendary if it's not too far down the tech tree, but it probably will be (hard to judge how long it might take to get there yet). Although perhaps it's not crazy to put quality in everything on nauvis, even just rare quality 2's, siphon off quality products with a splitter from all production into an active provider and just accumulate some parts passively as the factory runs for power armor and some platform items purely via the bot network, without interfering too much with the regular factory. What I'm really looking forward to, though, is setting up a real dedicated factory late game where everything get's recycled and upcycled into legendary quality. I just want to see the trains come in an only a trickly of usable materials go out, that sounds super fun to me.
What I'm curious about is if there's a clear "winner" for location to make quality on. Clearly you'll need to make some everywhere, for the unique products on each planet, but whether it's best to have the vast majority of products made on say Nauvis, with quality ores from all resources and work up the chain or on Fulgora, with quality recycling to get a kickstart on higher quality endproducts to recycle, is something I definitely want to find out once the game is out.
I have no doubt quality will end up being the most complex system in the game ultimately. Plus, I love idle games, and quality production really triggers that itch I think.
Oh, and quality robots sound amazing to me. I always loved the robot battery research mod (made by klonan iirc?). Finally it's native to the game, and quite highly priced too, which I do like.
Vulcanus sounds like a nice place to do most of quality due to basically infinite resources
@@TimDrogin I'm not so sure. I think you skip a potential quality step by doing molten metal. If ore can come out as quality, turning it to plate directly might be better. But I suppose yes, since it's basically you can just recycle more freely. That said I never considered nauvis ore to be finite either, even less so now if legendary miners consume so little of a patch. Patches might essentially become infinite on nauvis too.
@@theral056 it's a waste using quality for science packs, so you should be more selective
12:30 - Just overstating your great point on the grid size, 11x11 is 21% better than 10x10! A legendary power armor has 125% increase compared with a normal one (Not sure why someone would still be using power armor at that stage, though)
Hey, this one goes to 11! :D
Extra reach from DND all over again
To me it sounds like the best thing to do (maybe after quality modules, depending on how fluids are handled) is first upgrade your base resources (iron/copper/plastic) and anything that uses fluids (unless you can get quality fluids or they don't matter)
from there you can split off a special line(s) for your quality ingredients as you know anything you make with those will be guaranteed to be the same quality and you should be making base resources in mass anyways and you'll be using all of the base resources anyways so nothing goes to waste. No need to make 10 power armors that you then have to trash when you could just make 1 with your higher quality ingredients.
You can even upgrade as time goes on... so rather than just having quality ores you then upgrade your smelters to then have even higher chance of rare quality, should get enough at that point to upgrade what ever you want to rare (could even go with just one miner/furnace to start as you produce so much even that singular one of each step would get you a lot of quality rare base resources)
I think quality in smelters before miners would be more efficient use of the modules as it takes several miners to feed a smelter, so it would take less modules to get the same output. After smelters, it gets interesting what you upgrade next. Im thinking a small line of gears and chips and other early intermediates using the upgraded plates. And only after that upgrade a set of miners. Then scaling up from there based on your needs. Cant wait for the data analysis people to do the min/max payoff analysis.
You'd need a base that's 5x bigger than normal to handle each of the different qualities, and those 5 sub-bases would need to be 5x more complex
@@cyberkraken1606 If you are only getting it at a 10% rate the base needs to only be 10% bigger per bonus resource. and technicly not even that due to you still getting the same "amount" of resource total.
lets say your minors where producing enough metal for a 24 furnace set up... to handle the amount of quality you'd only need 3 for uncommon (rounding up) and 1 for rares. and you'd need only 22 (rounding up) for the normal ores so it's not even adding that much to it.
It's even easier on things like crafting stations which can only take in set quality materials... just have it all on the same line but have a few dedicated crafters for handling the quality on the same line (though personally I'd still separate it off due to an inserter maybe not being fast enough to grab 2 qualities right next to each other)
27:20 did you tested this? Because from description it would actualy burn neclear fuel faster as nuclear cell is 8GJ
Rip😂👍
I love bots and making bot based factorys. This is going to be fun once get logistic chests and bots ❤
If you have quality and productivity module in the same assembler will the triggered extra be the base quality or the quality that triggered it?
good points on the quality stuff, except: for items that you don't need quality of, but can't use productivity modules, it is STILL worth putting quality modules in the assemblers for the purpose of UPCYCLING the results into getting high quality materials for other production chains. belts/pipes is an example of this....can't use productivity modules in them, so go ahead and put quality modules in the assemblers....for the results that come back with rare/epic belts...recycle those for high quality iron gears and plate.
You need high quality pipes to make the engines for high quality bots.
@@beepbop6697 Yup. that's also a production chain you can set up. wasn't thinking about the bots.
There are a load of other examples that can help get extra quality stuff for base building early on, too.
such as: putting quality modules in the assemblers that make furnaces for the purple science. the normal quality results get used for science, (and you can also do that for the uncommon furnaces) and then put the rare+ furnaces into the logistics system to be used elsewhere. To balance this: you'll need to also be putting quality modules in the assemblers/EM plants making modules, and the builds that are outputting rail. Then recycle the excess/imbalances that pop up and use those recycling chains to upcycle materials further. In the red/green science builds you can use this same methodology to get a source of quality plate, gears, and inserters. In the yellow science build you can do a similar thing to get quality engines and robot frames.
Thank you i seriously needed this video
My plan is to only use quality modules in the electric miners -- then feed that quality ore into dedicated subfactory to guarantee to make items of a particular quality.
No recycler loops needed, and avoids all the "percentage chance to roll" a high quality item.
Legendary iron/copper ore is guaranteed to make Legendary anything that the belts of legendary ore is fed into.
as far as i know, you can only mine up to rare quality ore, and then when you smelt it it can become legendary.
and i think its like 20% or something, but thats with legendary stuff already.
But yes, this means that 4% of all the ore you mine will end up as a legendary plate, so this quality grind is way easier than people seem to think.
But as epic and legendary is locked behind progression, mining ore with quality is probably the way to go, so you can make all the rare stuff you want.
Quality armor and equipment is really good, before you can get the top armor (from fulgora research I think?).
As I played, even before going to other planets, I put quality modules in all my miners, so I got some green and blue ores, smelting them I got more blue plates. Then q2 modules in coal and plastic, etc, I crafted from the bottom with a chance tp get better product everywhere.
So after several hours waiting for blue ingredients, I finally got myself a blue PA Mk2. Huge improvement, since normal 10x10 armor = 100 tiles, rare 12x12 = 144 tiles which is already 1.5 times bigger.
Don't bother with quality reactors, they need so many blue chips that you'll never get them and with bigger eq grid you can fit 4 normal ones. Get rare Armor, then rare roboports, then rare exoskeleton if you like to run fast, that's all you really need.
Rare roboports are practically equal to Mk2, with pretty small resource cost compared to reactor and they will help you more with more bots and x4 recharge slots.
One of problems of trying for quality before Fulgora is that you can't get rid of some products you don't really need. I tried to make science from green quality ingredients since they are used just like common science, just last longer in labs.
Also, note that purple quality is locked behind other planet so you cannot get it at the start. So when crafting from blue ingredients, put productivity modules to get more product, since quality modules won't give you purple products at this time in game.
So far my answer has been to ignore the quality system entirely. With all the bot chests unlocked I might mess with it now that I can use them to zip them over to a dedicated quality workshop or something. Not a system I can be bothered to care about.
here's how it works: tells me how it used to work, briefly mentions how it works but then apologizes as he must first explain how it doesnt work.
just put blue quality on the miners themselves and then you smelt that in electric furnaces to try to roll for purple plates, and then you use quality again in assembler and try to roll for legendary craft
Quick question, can inserters pull stuff out of the rocket silos in 2.0 when it has logistics enabled? If it can then it can be used to build bot malls with only blue science and cheese kovarex enrichment
Edit: according to some images in Factorio discord this is true, Let's gooooooooo
Sounds like how I respond to any situation:
HOW WHAT WHY WHERE HUH
on that second gear run through, am i right in thinking that if you didn't have any quality modules on it but still fed in quality plates, they would still get green quality gears, obv without the chance of getting blue ones?
I'm definitely going to try and make an automated recycling system to go for a ton of quality stuff.
That's called a quality grinder, it's a very effective strategy especially with higher quality quality modules, don't forget to put high quality productivity modules in your crafters that are crafting legendary items especially in your quality grinders so you get even more legendary stuff out!
A recycler wastes 75% of everything that goes into it, and even when loaded with quality modules, does not guarantee quality output -- so in actuality, you are wasting far more than 75% of resources feeding into these recycler loops.
A very neat video!
So I'm wondering - is it still true that you can't speed beacon your assemblers when you are making Quality? On one hand that kind of makes sense, on the other hand if you want to Quality most of the things, it's kind of forcing you to build big bases for processing things...
Also, I wonder what will be the Quality meta. It seems that when you're going for Legendary quality, it might be best to just roll the base components into high Quality early and then just make everything out of Legendary parts? Like, instead of trying to make Legendary Power Armour by rolling and recycling it 1000 times, it might just be easier to make a million Iron Gears and keep rolling them until you get Legendary Iron Plates and then roll up from there. Otherwise you are kind of stuck having to have 5 different crafting machines for each part of the process making different quality level components and then getting up-cycled.
But yeah, I wonder if it will be better to do Quality -> Productivity or Productivity -> Quality. So many things to consider!
Speed (at least the tier 3s) has a -2.5% quality penalty, and quality modules have 5% speed penalties. You can use speed beacons with on assemblers with quality modules, though they will reduce the effectiveness of them, so there's a trade-off that can be made between speed and quality in order to maximise the number of quality products per unit time. Worth adding to this is that quality boosts the primary effect of modules, but not the penalties, but beacon transmission power applies equally to both the buffs _and_ penalties given by the modules in them, and beacon transmission power increases with the beacon's quality, but decreases with the number of beacons.
A top-down approach to quality (modules in finished products) vs a bottom-up one (modules in the base intermediates) is another question you're going to need to figure out. In terms of quality output per unit input, which option is optimal and where to use prod modules changes depending on the strengths of the modules and what building you're using, so there isn't going to be a one-size-fits-all solution. The most consistent factor will probably be that a bottom-up approach will have more complex logistics in order to sort the intermediates, where as a top-down approach can generally just shove everything into the same box.
You will still use low quality for lots of things, science packs for example, which is the largest drain of resources on your factory. Or pipes to expand that huge oil processing plant. Or belts.
Speed works hand in hand with Productivity. Speed hurts Quality.
I will disagree on your point about thruster efficiency
I don't have the game, obv, but I saw the tooltop on the *thrust*. That thrust is increased by quality!
Which means, that yes the efficiency of a thruster does increase with quality! It doesn'd reduce fuel consumption per unit of time of the engine, but a Rare thruster is worth 1.5 thrusters in the amount of work it does.
It is true that they do increase efficiency overall - fewer thrusters means less spsce which means less drag. So if you compute real thrust by subtracting the drag you get higher real thrust for higher quality thrusters.
The real question is how large is this effect. I don't care to compute it rn but it might be that the difference is so small it's not really worth it.
Great pre lunch content!! More please
Quality repair packs do not sound worth it. they're so cheap I'd rather just make more, & I'm not worried about storing them.
I feel like the 'meta' is going to be getting a couple of quality miners/pumps/etc and just using that to snowball the quality of basic materials until you're guaranteed crafting everything legendary
you are probably looking at 90%+ wasted materials when it comes to crafting legendary items so unless you have limited space, the basic stuff will still be better. (basically epic+ stuff is mostly for your ship or fun after the game is "done")
@@Oratory1989 what I'm taking about is the "guaranteed" system unless I misunderstood something. Input quality common quality materials to get a common quality product, save anything that procs the higher tier and repeat until your miners or whatever are spitting out legendary ore.
@@Slywyn miners will never do anything better than rare ores as far as i know, as it can only procc "2 up", and i would assume that there are no uncommon, or rare orpatches.
@@Oratory1989 even if you made legendary miners? But then even starting from rare is better than nothing
@@Slywyn yes, legendary miners will not give better ores, they will just be better miners.
However, getting qualitymodules in miners ASAP and stockpiling the quality ores are by far the best thing to do.
For the setup at 5:00 (where 10% of the gears become uncommon, and then 10% of the uncommons become rare), is the 10% uncommon to rare based on the quality modules or still just a static 10% as originally explained in the FFF?
science bro science!
I love seeing this info drop. But what the hell, are you gonna just let those trees stay there right next to your assemblers just looking at them with disgust and not blow them up.
You need high quality pipes for high quality engines though.
which planet unlocks the crusher or scraper? To be able to recycle so you can actually make a loop to specifically get specific quality
He said Fulgora. Another reason for me to get to it first.
crusher i think nauvis you need it for the first space science and scraper from fulgora
The recycler is on fulgora the scrap planet as you need to recycle scrap into high level items that you can then recycle into their ingredients in order to turn those items into the items you need
you borrowed my like
What are the effects of Quality on Heat Exchangers and Steam Turbines? Do those buildings merely consume inputs at a higher rate (which is what I was afraid Quality Reactors might do), or do the Space Age outputs exceed the standard proportion with the inputs?
I'll probably be messing around with quality after Fulgora.
I feel like I'm gonna mess with quality waaay too much even before leaving Nauvis, because I'd want to get ready for anything LOL
@@BuGBurnout personally taking too long to progress or doing one thing just leads me to getting burned out.
I plan to add quality with the bus. Just before the product got into the belt, I will filtered to put in a chest. I will store them for item worth it, like power armor or card.
Agreed. I want to optimize for quality on the front end (at ore/plates), and not be dumping tons of "normal" production into recycler loops.
Hey JD, do you get higher quality ore with quality modules inside the mining drills ?
I mean if we are going to use the quality modules - we need to do so as early in the production chain as possible.
And then if you use the rare quality ore to feed to quality powered furnaces - you could get to legendary iron plates, right ? (provided the tech is unlocked)
Yes. But: it’s apparently an absolute mess to deal with all quality levels so early on. Though you can set up a quality mine only dedicated to the quality factory without making a big mess in the science part
@@Erichteia Planning it out in my head it doesn't seem like it would be that hard? Just put a splitter at the belt between unloading and your forges, set it to divert anything above normal quality and send that off to a dedicated quality line.
@@Palewolf0Inubashiri thats exactly my intention. Just filter out the non-normal ore and direct it separate smelters.
I would get a ton of quality ingredients since the basic resurce production in pieces is the highest in any factory.
@@Palewolf0Inubashiri if you only do it on mines, it’s indeed fine. Though you need to separate all different qualities at every stage, so the complexity quickly ramps up. In general, it’s much easier to quality loop some specific intermediates where you have a lot of productivity
@@sashamedentsiy8204 You will also quickly find out that your quality ingredients aren't in the proportions that you'd need, because you can't directly control how much quality ore of what type you are getting.
Why don't they have the "Any" option for quality? That way you can have a certain level of flexibility and backwards compatibility. I might be producing iron plates with quality, and want to feed both common and uncommon into the main science bus, while just filtering off the rare, epic, and legendary iron plates. I get why they have the filters, but is the option of disabling the filters too much to ask?
great summary!
Monday can't come fast enough, I expect wube to become overwhelmed by the factorio community blackfridaying their doors down.
Steam is going to end up thinking there's a DDOS attack happening but it's just the factorio community downloading the update and the DLC aha
Wouldn't it be better to craft things with the same quality ingredients rather than rely on the quality modules? Ex. Use Rare Steel plates and Rare Red Circuits to craft Rare energy shields rather than rely on the dice roll for the quality. Of course, probably not ideal for everything but I hope it works like this.
Another ex: Use the quality ingredients strat for asteroid colector since it's pretty cheap (number of ingredients), but for the rocket silo it would be pretty hard LOL
For the things you most want in quality and tend to cycle through the least, absolutely. For things you tend to use more frequently and whose quality bonus is more of a "nice to have", then I'd just use the modules in the final assemblers and slowly accumulate quality products that can be used in strategic locations.
Yeah I’m not sure on the whole quality thing….. Factorio’s whole thing is that it’s deterministic. I know what my build is, I know 48 furnaces fills a belt fully. It makes me uncomfortable that one build could need that many, another could only need 45 furnaces. Seems icky!!
@@ryanhamstra49 Then you have 2 choices: don't upgrade your furnaces and keep them all as common stone furnaces until you can upgrade the belts to red and all the furnaces to common steel furnaces, and then not upgrade further until you have enough electric furnaces, modules, and beacons in the right quality.
Or... you can _suffer_ and slowly upgrade things in-place one at a time knowing that you're producing slightly more than you can supply or retrieve.
This was the case before quality. Quality just adds another axis to the upgrade paths making it harder to wait until everything is available to fully upgrade everything at once.
@@ryanhamstra49, you don't have to use quality, disable the quality mod in the mod menu and all the quality stuff goes away
This is my view too. It seems like a low cost time sink addition to an already extremely time sinking game for the means of justifying $35.
The 21st cant come quick enough
3 days remaining
Adding them in that priority sounds reasonable, though if you're mass producing modules and have spare qual 1s, there's really not much reason not to just stick them in every assembler in your mall. Even if their bonuses are completely useless, they can still be used for recycling later to get quality materials. Similarly, early game green science builds may as well include quality modules in the belt and inserter assemblers since they don't accept prod, and if nothing else, the belts can be used to get quality iron later.
Overall, one of the mechanics I'm very excited for.
P.S. Tanks have an equipment grid? _On top_ of being able to remote control them‽ Holy shit; you don't need to wait until spidertrons or place roboports everywhere in order to do remote construction! And that's in addition to being able to engage in remote extermination pre-spidertron. It would be even better if the RTS tool could be used to control them, but just this alone is already a game-changer.
As explained in the video the problem with putting quality modules in everything is you then need at least 1 assembler capable of crafting items with that higher quality stuff, no point having uncommon iron plates if you don't have an uncommon iron gear wheel assembler to assemble that uncommon iron plate into an uncommon iron gear wheel, though with a bit of circuit network magic or a lot of space you could theoretically make a base capable of handling those situations should they arise
@@cyberkraken1606 I said every assembler _in your mall._ That is still somewhat hyperbole as it doesn't really include the assemblers making intermediates directly within the mall for the reasons you gave, but most things in the mall will be finished products, and unless they're already getting max quality inputs or you just don't have spare quality modules, those are the assemblers that there's little concern about dealing with the resulting quality.
420 likes on the shoutout? Really? That's wild
12:43 10x10 is 100. 11x11 is 121. So it's 21% better.
Strictly speaking.
I'm using 4 level 2 quality modules in my assembler machine crafting level 2 quality modules, and I'm getting nothing but normal quality modules even after thousands of crafts. Why is this happening?
What about quality locomotives and wagons?
How quality affects science packs, trains, fuel, enemies (eggs), landfill, concrete, and stuff fff mised in general description?
Science packs are worth more science at higher quality, so it works out as 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 science packs worth of science per science pack, everything else assume it's just more hitpoints until you're in game and can take a look in 3 days time from now
Does quality function similar to or like Proliferator in DSP? Or?
Proliferator is either Speed Module or Productivity Module. JD covers what quality is quite thoroughly in the video.
The bonus that higher quality gives depends on the kind of item. It might be more hitpoints, more production speed, higher area of effect, or (for drills and pumpjacks) less resource usage, or higher grid size (personal equipment), or more damage (ammo), boost to module effect (modules and beacon)...
I think that the most efficient way is to first craft a lot of quality modules and insert them into all assemblers, drills and furnaces and pull out quality items with manipulators at the beginning of the belt. Over time you will accumulate enough quality components with which you will be able to craft expensive final products (power armor, drones, robot ports, etc.) with 100% chance. This is profitable, since you will need a lot of quality modules for the next tier anyway. And you craft components by the ton, but hoping for luck and crafting 10 power armor suits, 9 of which you will throw away... meh... is too wasteful at the beginning of the game.
whats the T3 Qualtiy Modual stats and effects?
+2.5% quality, -5% speed
it's definitely a very ignorable thing, or something I would setup later in the game using its own sort of separate resources. Something like a larger radius to a power pole or beacon is more relevant than, say, getting more power, because when was the last time you felt you didn't have the resources for a power blueprint? MAYBE it's more important on later planets making expensive items with fewer buildings, idk. I think in the future when more familiar with everything I would probably do a full quality kind of run or something along those lines, though, I bet that would be fun
It _is_ a very ignorable thing. I won't be ignoring it because it seems fun, and it probably won't be ignorable at the megabase stage, but before that point you can pretty much choose to engage with it whenever you want, as you will never get a quality output without either quality inputs or placing quality modules in machines.
It's so ignorable you can just turn it off and never even worry about it, stick with the factorio experience you know and love without the added complexity of quality
@@angeldude101you can just turn quality off, then you don't even have the ability to craft quality modules or see anything to do with quality, you can still beat the game without ever touching quality
@@cyberkraken1606 Yes, but while that sounds easier, it also sounds less fun. (In fact, the "easier" part isn't even really a positive in this case.)
I've come to call my approach to factorio "reward complexity with power", and Quality is a perfect example of that, adding a lot of logistical and mathematical complexity to keep track of various quality items and entities, and rewards facing said complexity with extremely powerful tools.
"stick with the factorio experience you know and love without the added complexity of quality" Every part of that sentence just further _encourages_ me to use Quality. I _want_ the added complexity, and I _want_ to diverge from the traditional vanilla factorio experience. That's why I play overhaul mods. They provide both, and so does quality on a smaller scale.
Every game I played that had Items that have levels or Quality of that items turned the game or mod turned in to S**T. This game is about auto crafting for end game. You'll spend to much time hand picking parts, and with no recycling of the bad or lower levels items is just more C**P.
Why would you roll for quality end products when you could just be making the ingredients quality and crafting a guaranteed quality item? At least the failed rolls on ingredients are still useful to the factory.
I am sure as this gets more familiar, quality will make sense. However, to me it merely looks like a complicated time sink addition to a game that's already a time sink to justify charging $35 for a decent. Sure, for advanced players this adds lots of things to do down the line, but for beginners/intermediate players, this just seems like a horrible addition.
ur going to have a mess setting up circuits to boxes to shut down machines when u roll a epic or legendary
watched for 5 mins and still didnt understand what is quality usage, next time explain the very basic if your title indicate it, thumbs down
So you can select the epic recipe from the beginning but you can't get them even by chance when crafting rares?
So epic stuff can only drop after you research it?
That's bollocks. The higher tier crafting recipes should be locked not the chance to drop a higher tier.
After all the recipe guarantees the selected tier or higher.
Iiuc Epic & Legendary quality can only start being gotten after you get the research. This means you are capped to rare quality on at least the first planet. This is to prevent you from farming until legendary then going to your first new planet & trivialising the experience.
The recipe may not be locked but you'd still need to get epic ingredients for it which you can't do until you unlock the ability to be able to roll epic quality stuff
I don't like that you can't mix ingredient qualities. It's just going to make it tedious having 5 quality levels that can't mix at all. Instead if should be chance based what quality you get with higher quality ingredients giving a higher output chance. An uncommon wire and rare plate should have a 50% chance to make a rare circuit.
are you saying there is no recycler to scrap all the useless junk this system produces? what an oversight
I do not really understand why you focus so hard on putting quality items onto these crafts and potentially get better quality items. Wouldnt it be way better to put quality modules in miners/smelters, seperate the uncommon/rare items and feed the normal ones onto the bus? Doing the same esssentially with all basic items (gears, circuts etc ) until you have enough to craft whatever uncommon/rare item you want.
As for epic and legendary quality, I think the only option would be to use the basic items that are uncommon/rare (you should have quite a bit at this point in time in storage) to craft uncommon/rare basic items with modules and therefore getting the epic/legendary basic items until you have enough.
To BP this and build this, would be quite the fun project as you essentially have 2 loops you need to consider, as well as up to 5 outputs of each basic item.
I thought the same thing, I'd rather not waste resources on crafting 10s maybe 100s of armour mk2s when I can go for it with raw resources by hand. But maybe I'm just missing or not understanding something
Thumbs down. Very complicated. You speak too fast and explain by talking instead of showing.
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait! WHAT? 16:12 legendary efficiency module has -100% consumption? So free energy?
there is a minimum, the high number is "just" useful for counteracting +consumption from other modules
Min energy is 20% no matter what. Since other modules increase energy consumption it just helps counter-acting the drain.
I hate the quailty shit. It ruined my starter base i use to start a game. I wish they never added itso it could ruin the automated crafting. Any crafting machine should have accept any at least
How did it ruin your starterbase? you can just NOT put quality modules in your stuff.
The in-game help at launch for this is really absolute trash :-(
merely three sentences, did not even teach me how to even produce these things
borrow a like and earn a sub lol. im so ready for monday. just got paid and working on my first mega base for the dlc
This video sucked. Mentioned only the obvious things that all can see at the first glance, avoiding all the difficult topics of making it all work in the factory.
Quality is deceptively arse. It's really a Time & Resource pig.
But if you're gonna do it build a special system for it. Beacon EVERY to max, has each assembly machine a recycler (where you recycle lesser qualitys) and ONLY accept Legendarys at the end. It'll take time and plenty of baby sitting. For dozens of items.. 😱🤮 it's not fun..
If you don't want to play with it then just turn it off
Quality is cringe and g ay
L take
Well isn't it a good thing it's just as optional as your ability to behave like a bigot...
Well that makes you the most straight thing in existence.
I'm sorry you find homosexuality to be a negative trait. Also gamba. Also completely optional for snowflake babies that fear change to avoid forever.
If you don't want to play with it turn it off and don't engage with content about it