I can remember watching this at the time thinking I'd love one and in my head that only seems a couple years ago but when you see this video now everything looks old. Hard to imagine that in another decade we will look back on the most modern fancy cars there is today and think it all looks old because how can they improve on what they have now it's hard to imagine but they will. And this m3 is still one of my favourites
180kg less, carbon roof, thinner glass, Slightly bigger brakes, Slightly thicker roll bars, 17 BHP more and slighly different geometry/ride hight. But I'm surprised at the result as the tyres on the CSL will make up almost all this time difference on the track as they as PS Cups !
@5putput This is delayed, But, 20k isn't bad, when you do the math for what IS added. So even if you bought a base M3 and tried to make it into a CSL... here's what you'd need to spend: CSL air box- $3500 Performance headers/exhaust- $3000 Carbon fiber roof- $1200 FRP trunk- $600 LWT seats- $2000 LWT rear seats- $1500-2000 used (more new)
i think they do a series of shots for the camera throwing it around with the tail hanging out for visual excitement then do a few tidy laps to set a time. if you look on the super imposed shots he's driving much more neatly.
erickrayos he is right about the tires, i have a tracktool e46 and i drove an all stock M3 E46 with michelin pss around the Hockenheimring and then an M3 CSL with michelin ps ( he drives the car daily and it has 170k kilometers) and could both compare to my "tuned" E46 (it has "only" 350 whp it's more ob the suspension brakes interior etc "tuned" for track) The CSL was actually just a tiny bit faster than the stock E46 ( both SMG) and the Hockenheimring has some longish straight parts My Tracktool was a quite a bit faster then the CSL. But still, the CSL is a Legend and it's just fun dont get offended and you're absolutely right the CSL is much more than just tyres it's really something special
...so basically to sum things up, we all want a CSL however the of us will have to suffice with a 6MT e46 M3; And with some brakes, wheels and tires, we can live our dreams. CSL owners. You lucky European bastards.
Why couldn't bmw make a serious track M3 for the E92 for the Usa? Instead we got the "lime rock edition" M3 but lets be honest, it isn't any faster in a straight line or around a corner so essentially it's just a marketing tool that will make you look like a tool. Come on Bmw you can do so much better.
Carbon fiber front bumper- $1100 used (more new) Carbon fiber door cards- $2000 Carbon fiber interior parts- ? (my guess is around $500) Bigger sways- $600 Better, stiffer, springs- $600 better shocks- $800 CSL LWT wheels- $2000 (maybe more) Tune- $600 That's more or less $19,500.00; not including install, tax, or the potential that some parts may cost more. I'd say the CSL is a pretty damn good deal considering how much the parts cost to make it that AWESOME.
Two seconds on lap that takes less than a min is a big difference. The E46 CSL was also more than 30 sec faster than the standard M3 on the Nurburgring.
@raymondrayban They were what, £60k almost when they came out and a low mileage one several years later is around £30k. In contrast, the std M3 was around £38 in 2001 and now they are around 8-9k, which means it lost an astonishing 80% of its value compared w/ the CSL which only lost 50%. Plus CSLs likely won't depceciate any further so its a good place to put yer money.
@raymondrayban that could be due to the fact that ppl are cutting spending in these hard times, and the cost of gasoline is also a factor...its not that ppl dont want it its the fact that they cant afford it
M3=52.8s M3 CSL=50.8s on a 53 second track now how does that translate on the Nurburgring? M3=8:22s M3 CSL=7:50s 8:22=502s/52.8s=9.5laps 7:50=470s/50.8s=9.25laps 9.5laps x 2s=19s slower 0.25laps/50.8s=12.7s behind in distance 19s+12.7s=31.7s slower on the Nurburgring!
2 seconds is nothing considering driver error + he got used to the car and the track so the second lap with the csl will be always quicker even with the same car, so can safely say csl is 20k more expensive just for a few milliseconds, and they are garage queens nowadays anyway. The normal e46 m3 is as good as it gets and dont need the fancy csl :)
A factory car will ALWAYS be more sorted than a tuned car and will generally be faster for cheaper. Simple reason? ECONOMIES OF SCALE! Look it up folks
if you got the money, buy a CSL then convert it to a 6speed... or buy a normal 6speed M3, change the cams to a CSL version or a schrick one, replace a lot of shit with carbon fiber, remove the radio (can't remember if the CSL have airconditioning), switch exhaust system including headers and a proper tune and voila. probably a better one than CSL.
by a standard m3 strip it out your self and if you want a stupid flappy paddle gear box buy one and have it fitted for a couple of grand, save your self 20 thousandpound in the process
You don't really know who this guy is, do you? He raced Formula 1 and all kinds of motorsport before and he is ACE behind the wheel, you see him drift when he is practising before he does a flying lap. Take those Top Gear fanboyism out of you and see which part of edit is which.
ps this M3 has lost 53% of its NEW selling price as of 9-3-11 on the second hand market ! in the uk according to my research on the second hand MARKET! in the UK!
Only 2 seconds faster and it has barely legal slick tyres, 185kg less weight, bigger brakes, lower centre of gravity, no aircon, no radio, cf airbox, cf roof. Not that impressive.
@NRGsimb88. before you go judging other peoples intelligence. just stop and pipe down and squish that big head of yours... I was merly stating that, in theroy you could buy a m3 completly strip it, fit light weight seats, carbon fibre bonnet and other parts, and a set of slicks and even new brakes.... you could deffinatly do for less money and hassle of buying a csl :) And for the sake of a playstation gear box and 17hp, you would save your self a HELL AMOUNT TO CASH
2 secs quicker round a track for £20.000 quid WHAT A WASTE OF MONEY! id rather have the standard M3 spend £2500 on a QUALITY exhaust system and induction kit ! have that NOISE and pay a big chunk off my MORTGAGE! its funny how you think when your older ! ps how much is a M3 csl worth today on the second hand market ! as of 9-3-11 ,..........£peanuts! compared to £50.000
Two seconds.....doesn’t really matter, because on the Public highway your not supposed to drive like this, the advantages are you can overtake as and when no planning, you do have to show respect, not taunt the rice box brigade in there souped up Toyota, or Nissan, no, if you can afford one of either...do it!, you won’t regret it!!!
The one saving grace of Fifth Gear is that Tiff is actually an excellent driver. An ex pro. Unfortunately, as a TV host, he's on par with a piece of wood.
I can remember watching this at the time thinking I'd love one and in my head that only seems a couple years ago but when you see this video now everything looks old. Hard to imagine that in another decade we will look back on the most modern fancy cars there is today and think it all looks old because how can they improve on what they have now it's hard to imagine but they will. And this m3 is still one of my favourites
180kg less, carbon roof, thinner glass, Slightly bigger brakes, Slightly thicker roll bars, 17 BHP more and slighly different geometry/ride hight. But I'm surprised at the result as the tyres on the CSL will make up almost all this time difference on the track as they as PS Cups !
It's a short track.
2 seconds are massive if the Standard M3 only Neefs 52 seconds on that track
Such a good driver
CSL prices have appreciated nicely. Wouldn’t have lost a penny if you had bought one originally and only done a few thousand miles a year in it.
@5putput This is delayed, But, 20k isn't bad, when you do the math for what IS added. So even if you bought a base M3 and tried to make it into a CSL... here's what you'd need to spend:
CSL air box- $3500
Performance headers/exhaust- $3000
Carbon fiber roof- $1200
FRP trunk- $600
LWT seats- $2000
LWT rear seats- $1500-2000 used (more new)
he always does one lap for show then a neat and tidy quick lap!
He certainly whipped coulthard arse in the same car the other week!
i think they do a series of shots for the camera throwing it around with the tail hanging out for visual excitement then do a few tidy laps to set a time. if you look on the super imposed shots he's driving much more neatly.
its the tires mostly
CSL is lighter, got more aggressive cams, better flowing exhaust. yeah tires mostly...
all true. you forgot seats, plastic windows, and a few other things. but i'm saying the most noticeable difference is the tires. tires make the car.
erickrayos he is right about the tires, i have a tracktool e46 and i drove an all stock M3 E46 with michelin pss around the Hockenheimring and then an M3 CSL with michelin ps ( he drives the car daily and it has 170k kilometers) and could both compare to my "tuned" E46 (it has "only" 350 whp it's more ob the suspension brakes interior etc "tuned" for track)
The CSL was actually just a tiny bit faster than the stock E46 ( both SMG) and the Hockenheimring has some longish straight parts
My Tracktool was a quite a bit faster then the CSL.
But still, the CSL is a Legend and it's just fun dont get offended and you're absolutely right the CSL is much more than just tyres it's really something special
...so basically to sum things up, we all want a CSL however the of us will have to suffice with a 6MT e46 M3; And with some brakes, wheels and tires, we can live our dreams.
CSL owners.
You lucky European bastards.
Weight also a big factor in cars. Hence carbon fibre roof and other carbon bits. No radio. Tyres are nearly slick on these csl m3's
How much of those 2 seconds are due to the cup tire vs. PSS?
Why couldn't bmw make a serious track M3 for the E92 for the Usa? Instead we got the "lime rock edition" M3 but lets be honest, it isn't any faster in a straight line or around a corner so essentially it's just a marketing tool that will make you look like a tool. Come on Bmw you can do so much better.
That was the GTS, and BMW USA didn’t think they could have sold a 150k M3 in the back end of the Great Recession in 2010-2011.
Csl awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!
he answers your question in the start of the clip "when it comes to performance weight is everything" the handling would be much better on the csl
Carbon fiber front bumper- $1100 used (more new)
Carbon fiber door cards- $2000
Carbon fiber interior parts- ? (my guess is around $500)
Bigger sways- $600
Better, stiffer, springs- $600
better shocks- $800
CSL LWT wheels- $2000 (maybe more)
Tune- $600
That's more or less $19,500.00; not including install, tax, or the potential that some parts may cost more. I'd say the CSL is a pretty damn good deal considering how much the parts cost to make it that AWESOME.
I actually seen 1 from a neighbor he showed to me and it even sounds diferent than the normal m3 theres a lot of carbon fibor and weight balance
Two grand for two seconds?, much as I crave a CSL , I’d have the M3, I had one 14 years ago I and I loved it😎
Two seconds on lap that takes less than a min is a big difference. The E46 CSL was also more than 30 sec faster than the standard M3 on the Nurburgring.
@raymondrayban
They were what, £60k almost when they came out and a low mileage one several years later is around £30k.
In contrast, the std M3 was around £38 in 2001 and now they are around 8-9k, which means it lost an astonishing 80% of its value compared w/ the CSL which only lost 50%. Plus CSLs likely won't depceciate any further so its a good place to put yer money.
Stig Rossi Check them prices for the csl now
I starched ma pants!!!
not gonna lie that guys a good driver....
@raymondrayban that could be due to the fact that ppl are cutting spending in these hard times, and the cost of gasoline is also a factor...its not that ppl dont want it its the fact that they cant afford it
M3=52.8s
M3 CSL=50.8s on a 53 second track now how does that translate on the Nurburgring?
M3=8:22s
M3 CSL=7:50s
8:22=502s/52.8s=9.5laps
7:50=470s/50.8s=9.25laps
9.5laps x 2s=19s slower
0.25laps/50.8s=12.7s behind in distance
19s+12.7s=31.7s slower on the Nurburgring!
the distorted screen ratio causes the e46 m3 to looks like a 135i
@5putput ohh its equipped slicks and special seats crazy breaks ...
2 seconds is nothing considering driver error + he got used to the car and the track so the second lap with the csl will be always quicker even with the same car, so can safely say csl is 20k more expensive just for a few milliseconds, and they are garage queens nowadays anyway. The normal e46 m3 is as good as it gets and dont need the fancy csl :)
you save the 25 grand by selling the car, because its limited, look what a normal m3 costs and what a csl costs
BMW M3 = Sporty
BMW M3 CSL = Super Sporty!
It really looked more aggresive when Tiff took it out on the track!
A factory car will ALWAYS be more sorted than a tuned car and will generally be faster for cheaper. Simple reason? ECONOMIES OF SCALE! Look it up folks
Yes, this is coming from an M3 owner.... 1995 and 2003 models ;)
may i knwo if the m3 gtr or m3 csl is better
was this somekind of drift competion?
yes, drifting looses you so much more time than u realise!
so the csl?
Big question are the tyres the same?
Nope
I will never forgive bmw for not putting manual gearboxes in the csl and the gts. Fucking flappy paddles = shit.
if you got the money, buy a CSL then convert it to a 6speed... or buy a normal 6speed M3, change the cams to a CSL version or a schrick one, replace a lot of shit with carbon fiber, remove the radio (can't remember if the CSL have airconditioning), switch exhaust system including headers and a proper tune and voila. probably a better one than CSL.
It doesn't have air con.
That's not true. You could order radio or aircon as it was a no-cost option.
SMG better
The E46 M3 is the peak of M, downhill ever since.
E92 M3 Coupe is still my favourite to date. Since then, it's not my favourite. When it comes to modern day M3, I'd pick the Alfa Romeo Giulia QV.
Wow. The amount of people who commended Tiff for his driving is shocking. This man is an absolutely atrocity at handling the wheel.
@latbeast
your not making sense, that is EXACTLY what he was meaning :D :D
i dont think its worth an extra 20grand
who is the presenter ?
Tiff Needell
thank you, I remember watching him years ago. Such great enthusiasm he has for what he does
good driver !!
by a standard m3 strip it out your self and if you want a stupid flappy paddle gear box buy one and have it fitted for a couple of grand, save your self 20 thousandpound in the process
You don't really know who this guy is, do you? He raced Formula 1 and all kinds of motorsport before and he is ACE behind the wheel, you see him drift when he is practising before he does a flying lap. Take those Top Gear fanboyism out of you and see which part of edit is which.
ps this M3 has lost 53% of its NEW selling price as of 9-3-11 on the second hand market ! in the uk according to my research on the second hand MARKET! in the UK!
And fast forward and let's look at the prices now...
Prat.
I'm quite sure M3 costs more then when he wrote that comment, not to mention original CSL...
lol i agree
i guess you can really call it a LIMITED addition...hahaha
that chaps a jolly good driver, eh limeys?
Only 2 seconds faster and it has barely legal slick tyres, 185kg less weight, bigger brakes, lower centre of gravity, no aircon, no radio, cf airbox, cf roof. Not that impressive.
Then you're not doing it right...
u
no u
e30 forever
@NRGsimb88. before you go judging other peoples intelligence. just stop and pipe down and squish that big head of yours... I was merly stating that, in theroy you could buy a m3 completly strip it, fit light weight seats, carbon fibre bonnet and other parts, and a set of slicks and even new brakes.... you could deffinatly do for less money and hassle of buying a csl :)
And for the sake of a playstation gear box and 17hp, you would save your self a HELL AMOUNT TO CASH
MASSIVE!...........2 seconds lol
2 seconds are massive in a circuit which can be covered in 52 seconds.
the CSL sounds better but the stock M3 looks better
+1954telecaster no!!! csl looks better!!! its just csl interior sucks compare to normal m3
fucking love BMW!!! especially m3's. In this vid you see some parts where if that guy wasn't driving a bimmer the car would have flipped.
wtf is being argued here? shampoo?
2 secs quicker round a track for £20.000 quid WHAT A WASTE OF MONEY! id rather have the standard M3 spend £2500 on a QUALITY exhaust system and induction kit ! have that NOISE and pay a big chunk off my MORTGAGE! its funny how you think when your older ! ps how much is a M3 csl worth today on the second hand market ! as of 9-3-11 ,..........£peanuts! compared to £50.000
Exactly, it's missing a ton of luxuries including AIR CONDITIONING. Thanks for charging us 20 grand for you to TAKE OUT stuff BMW.
Two seconds.....doesn’t really matter, because on the Public highway your not supposed to drive like this, the advantages are you can overtake as and when no planning, you do have to show respect, not taunt the rice box brigade in there souped up Toyota, or Nissan, no, if you can afford one of either...do it!, you won’t regret it!!!
I hate that guy. looks like he drives a prius to debenhams to buy turtleneck sweaters
The one saving grace of Fifth Gear is that Tiff is actually an excellent driver. An ex pro.
Unfortunately, as a TV host, he's on par with a piece of wood.
smg the best
the CSL might be faster but it's uglier looking
he always does one lap for show then a neat and tidy quick lap!
He certainly whipped coulthard arse in the same car the other week!
Yes, this is coming from an M3 owner.... 1995 and 2003 models ;)
i guess you can really call it a LIMITED addition...hahaha