BMW M235i vs BMW M3 CSL on track
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- Опубліковано 14 кві 2014
- We test the BMW M235i against one of the best M Cars ever made, the BMW M3 CSL.
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With its 3.0-litre, twin-turbocharged straight six engine, the BMW M235i is the most powerful 2 Series you can buy and is priced at just over £34,000. However, for the same money you can have the modern classic M3 CSL that was launched in 2004.
The BMW M235i's twin-turbo engine produces 322 brake horsepower and 450 Newton Metres of torque. That's 78Nm more than the old M3. It weighs 1,470kg, so it's also 85kg heavier than the CSL.
Launched in 2004, the BMW M3 CSL was the most extreme version of the E46 BMW M3 generation. With a carbon fibre roof, it weighed 100kg less than the standard M3 and it also had upgraded springs, dampers and brakes plus extra power. It also came exclusively with BMW's automated manual SMG gearbox.
The reason the BMW M3 CSL is quite a good comparison to the M235i is because a normal M3 around this age will cost you between £6,000 and £10,000. If you want a decent M3 CSL then you're looking at around £30,000 to £35,000 so it's very similar money. More importantly, you'll get this astonishing engine that revs to 8,000rpm.
The BMW M3 CSL's gearbox is very slow by modern standards as it isn't a modern dual-clutch system. However, there's so much balance in the chassis, you can just sense when the car is in transition from understeer to oversteer.
In the M3 CSL, you get an amazing engine that goes ballistic above 6,000rpm but in the BMW M235i, it's just really quick-revving and gets lots of torque through the rev range.
It's heavier than the CSL, but it should come as no surprise as modern cars are getting heavier and heavier. The M235i is still a really lovely road car as it's very delicate and really enjoyable.
However, the BMW M235i does feel a little bit heavy and it doesn't have the body control of the hard-edged CSL. You can feel there in the oversteer when the car comes back, there's a little bit of snapback as the lateral movement in the body starts to make itself known.
Despite the differences between the BMW M3 CSL and the M235i, they both recorded the same lap-time around our circuit.
The BMW 2 series makes a more accessible every-day drive, but the M3 CSL is a thrilling classic that's to be enjoyed on occasion, and makes a better investment than your average pension. - Авто та транспорт
BMW M3 E46 - 11 years old and still one of the most beautiful BMW's ever built.
It's only a handful of cars from any given period that really make you say "wow" every time they go by, and as soon as I would see the E46 M3 with those bulging wheel wells I'd know I was in the presence of something special.
***** yeah its nuremberg lap time is faster than the m 4
***** Even the non M E46's still hold up visually. I've had an '04 330i ZHP sedan for about five years now and I love it as much now as when I first bought it. BMW really made something special with the E46.
***** Even the non M E46's still hold up visually. I've had an '04 330i ZHP sedan for about five years now and I love it as much now as when I first bought it. BMW really made something special with the E46.
musicisfree91 The sight of an e46, e39 and e38 together is pure car porn!
E46 M3 CSL. Most beautiful BMW ever built period
The E30 M3 with the wide hips is pretty smokin' though.
the z4 is still better
James, u still follow auto car?
btw the prank was really funny!!!
The E86 Z4 ///M Coupe smokes big time. Especially in Alpine White with Imola Red Interior. I prefer the carbon leather trim over the wood (yuck).
What a divine beast.
And it's 'Bimmers'. 'Beemers' are motorcycles.
You can't get a dual clutch for the 235i, it's a ZF 8 auto box.
It is not a Twin Turbo engine, its a 'TwinPower Turbo' it uses TwinScroll technology.
Funny, I found the front of the M235i to be quite beautiful, but next to the E46, it just feels cartoonish and a bit too much.
The E46 is really a great car :D
My thoughts exactly. The E46's design is timeless, and that noise... Oh god.
mariyuso My brother used to have a "regular" E46 M3, I really loved that car :D
My next car, I swear. I can't stop thinking about them.
CSL > M4 at the Nurburgring by two seconds. Says it all.
+JoeBlo2 2 secs on a 20km track is nothing. The CSL is a much better car though imo.
m3 csl is really 2 sec faster than a m4 at the nurburgring? From where you habe this information? Thank you
m3 csl is really 2 sec faster than a m4 at the nurburgring? From where you habe this information? Thank you
m3 csl is really 2 sec faster than a m4 at the nurburgring? From where you habe this information? Thank you
the m3 csl is really 2 sec faster than a m4? unbelieveble! Fron where you have this information? thank you very much if you response me! :-)
I literally just came to see the CSL and left.
+PlayerNineteen that engine is just brutal!
+Drezdan Can't beat an old school NA M engine.
+PlayerNineteen True , I have driven an E60 M5 and it sounds like it's going to rip you apart , it's amazing!
3:08
The E46 is probably the best M3 ever. The CSL is simply a masterpiece! My goodness that noise!
That CSL though !! I'm a proud owner of an '02 Phoenix Yellow BMW M3 6MT. Its is really one of the most communicative and balanced car I've ever owned/driven. Can't find a replacement for her yet and its been nothing but 4 years of joy. Grocery getter to track wrecker !! I'm so glad though that BMW is back to doing what they do best, and that's creating benchmarks and the the ultimate driving machines. That M235 is a stunning winner for BMW and a great way to reach out to its roots again !!. Welcome back BMW, that M235 is calling all drivers !!
Totally agree :)
And it's amazing that you can get M235i so cheap vs the current and past M-cars. It is also truly a car you can drive everyday and take to the track on weekends. I was really sceptical about M-performance lineup of vehicles at first, thinking it would be just a marketing gimmick. But it does indeed seem like M-perf cars fulfill their role of being the best of both worlds - performance/fun/track driving and everyday usability.
kr0pp It's arguably even better than the "full fat" batch of current M cars..
One little mistake in the video. The M235i doesn't come with a dual clutch gearbox as an option but an 8-speed automatic. Too bad the CSL only came with the SMG.
and it’s not twin turbo either
That Noise!!! Omg, what a car!
Surely you are referring to the M3 and not the "active sound" powered M235i
jagerx N55 doesn't sound bad in any way at all. Go live with a car with that engine for a while and you'll know what i'm talking about. Countless people have complimented the sound of my 335i (including girls) and no one ever has said its bad.
Sheharyar Irfan Yes it does. I had a 135i for one year and sold it because it was absolutely boring. So quiet. And that was the N54 which was considered less refined and more raw than the N55.
I guess more refinement was needed to the sound then. How can you possibly not like this watch?v=laZccsBm4uQ
Sheharyar Irfan That vid is really enhanced, and you're talking about a full exhaust system. Exhaust noise is still only half the equation. Ever tried downshifting in your 335i? It makes absolutely no sound when not under load. Try doing the same in an E46 M3. It's engaging and visceral.
Induction noise is nonexistent in the N55. But hey.. fuel economy, right?
that M3 has one of the best sounding engines ever! so much induction noise
6 sweet, sweet ITBs and a beautiful CF intake.
jagerx could not have said it better haha
I want that air box and trunk, plus the steering rack :)
TheBlackdragon936 me too
e46 looks so much better
you wish
Much better
i dont think so. drove an m3 then tested an m235i i like the m235i a lot
@@seansurfn2 yeah bro ur right👍 nothing compare with series_2❤ someday i will buy one... an F22 (M.235)✊
M3 CSL... I remember driving that car on the Hockenheim Circuit. It was such an amazing machine.
"The BMW M3 remains the only car ever to have earned more titles than the venerable Porsche 911 in Motorsport, and also is the most successful touring, and grand touring car ever to have participated in racing. The BMW M3, especially the E46 M3, has been regarded as the "Best, all-around car to ever have been made"."
+jonzxcv Correction ! The E30 M3 earned more titles then any BMW, and more as all BMW M Cars together. Over 1500 Titles !
+REALSlutHunter Yes but as a road car, E46 M3 will eat it alive performance wise and safety wise! He did mention "Best all-around car"
+REALSlutHunter Yes but as a road car, E46 M3 will eat it alive performance wise and safety wise! He did mention "Best all-around car"
+REALSlutHunter Yes but as a road car, E46 M3 will eat it alive performance wise and safety wise! He did mention "Best all-around car"
+jonzxcv what you think about the 1m coupe?
That m3 looks way better than the new 2014 models. They all look swollen and rounder. Nothing looks sharp. Like fluffy cars. At this rate their future cars will look like vw beetle. Bmw needs to fire their exterior designer. 1 series looks better. 2 series same car but ugly design.
3 series still looks great though. The only one unchanged.
Are you blind? You say E46 looks good because the F30's are swollen, round and not sharp? Go take a look at both cars....most lines on the F30 are sharp, most lines on the E46 are round. F30 has a much sharper design, and much better proportions. Some people should just keep their opinions to themselves when it comes to design, because F30 is a better design in every possible way, and way more beautiful than E46 from any angle...that is in the eyes of people who are not blinded by nostalgia and hate towards anything that's new.
derbigpr500
Eww brainwash smells all the way here :D
Truth is e46 looks alot better. Design that breaks down in the long run isnt better either.
derbigpr500 M135i looks sportier, more tough, and athletic. It's like when you start lifting weights. Get muscular, get girls attention. They think "I look this good because I work out and got bigger, more defined muscles. I should workout even more and the bigger my muscles get the more attractive I become." It backfires when they get too big they look fat swollen and now have harder time getting girls. Overdoing anything and not balancing things out sometimes leads to failure. M235i is an over bloated car and it doesn't matter how much lines you put on it, it won't cover up the car's shape. M135i better looking than m235i. Period
derbigpr500 People who say the F30 looks better than the epic and timeless E46, one of the best BMW designs ever, really need to get some glasses. hell....and I don't wanna see the girls you get with your new muscles. mind over matter haha
Agreed, new designs are like cancer that converts your vision :D
The newest m5 looks the best of new bmw's but the other models have a damn ugly front grille in every model.
BMW are making better and better cars. But that legendary e46 m3 CSL is beyond anyting else. I would take that car in a heartbeat over any other BMW!
Except an E60 M5 :)
The V0 in the E60 is beyond anything else, however that car is littered with problems, despite that its one of my favouire cars.
Mrcloc bmw made that car way too heavy. its like 4,000lbs
Nelson Vargas
1855KG to be precise. That's not bad seen as though it comfortably sits 5 people, has luxuries and can go over 200mph non restricted!
an m5 shouldn't be close to that weight. m5 should weigh no more than 3400 lbs. i mean come on, the car is 100k US. BMW shouldn't be skimping out on exotic materials like carbon fiber to bring the lbs down. With the introduction of the i3 and i8 i'm sure BMW will make lighter M cars and the new m3 / m4 shows that.
He does great reviews! I love how he explains the cars and how different they are dynamically from one another. Awesome.
An M3 that's 11 years old still beating modern cars! Nough said
The CSL probably had the 10 year old tires aswell, you can see the the CSL is not griping as much and all that oversteer is the proof. Even the regular M3 has loads of traction, the CSL should have even more. I reckon the CSL is more than a second faster than the M235i
The E46 M3 was Bmw at its very best
Yes, I thought the M235i and the M2's inline-sixes sounded good until I watched this.... Man, does that inline-6 in that M3 CSL sounds amazing.... My balls tingle just by listening to that brilliant inline-6.....
That's the benefit of that air intake the CSL uses. You can get very very close to CSL induction noise on the normal E46 M3 by upgrading the stock airbox to a carbon one like the Evolve Eventuri, or GSR CSL style airbox, or pay the full whack and install a genuine CSL airbox.
A small boost in engine response is had and the noise, the noise is just unreal, especialy 3000-4500rpm where it barks like the CSL. I have various videos up for anyone interested!
+Robbie Khan good to know... Do u have any vids 9n ur channel?
+NaughtySuperior Quite a few, take a look of you have time!
SHOW ME WHERE CAN I GET AN M3 CSL FOR 35k!!!
It's called inflation over time
Patrick Tomlinson no it isn't, it's appreciation
exactly its 75k
Min 50 k...
Now more like nearly 100K
Some really nice videos from you lately! Thanks for that, really enjoy it!
NOT TWIN TURBO MY MAN, SINGLE TURBO!
***** Single turbo!
***** So a single turbo , as i stated lol I'm out
To be fair, they call it a twinpower turbo to signify it has two scrolls in one housing. Now, is that the same as a two turbos? No. But it's better than having one traditional turbo and in some ways even better than two standard turbos (less turbo lag, fewer mechanicals, etc.)
Not even a minute into the video and he says "twin turbo" twice. You can imagine my disappointment. I was happy to see your comment. I'm glad I'm not the only who can differentiate between an N54 and N55 engine.
Double F Gamer BMW's marketing is confusing. Lots of folks mis-speak about the "Twin-Power" BMWs. It's BMW's fault, and I'm not sure they care.
E46 still looks perfect
I love how he casually drifts while explaining everything
Great comparison video! Been waiting to see how the e46 holds up to the new generation.
You should do a comparison between the new M2 and the e46 M3.
Thanks.
The E46 is still the most beautiful and most pure BMW :)
twin turbo ? isnt it a single twin-scroll turbo ?
Yeah it is.
yeah twin turbo was the n54, m235i has the n55
Your right its is a single turbo.. i cant believe auto express got that massive detail wrong
@@thiccboi1726 none of them are twin turbo.. unless you look at the dirty diesels
Long live the E46! Still the best of both digital and analog worlds before electric steering and prodigious curb weights took over. Its a shame they didn't offer a 6MT in the CSL, but its still will go down as one of the greatest M cars ever.
Yes, the N55 powered BMWs with software tune can smoke the E46 M3, but overall handling dynamics and that sweet S54 motor make it a better sports car package IMO. Awesome track battle!
M3 CSL for god sake.... a living legend
+Fadli Arfi azzh0le
Got to get the chance to ride in the 235i while my dad took this for a test drive, felt absolutely incredible on the B roads. The engine sounds epic, I don't think you can really appreciate how awesome it feels until you're in it.
Owen is a great reviewer and driver - really enjoy his videos. Shame no-one else at Auto Express comes close to this guy.
I love those shift lights on tach, and also looks surprisingly modern for its time
Excellent video!!
I don't think BMW will ever better the E46 CSL for looks, noise or handling.
As the driver said, modern cars are always getting heavier and more loaded up with tech that takes control away from the driver. The M235 is great car against its modern competitors, but the CSL is just magical. Although it's probably a bit hard and spartan to use as an every day car, I'd still take it over the 235.
It's quite sad that BMW will never build another car like the CSL!
The M3 GTS was a kind of CSL for the e92 M3 :)
Hopefully they will do something with the M4 but it won't be the same as the mighty CSL :)
Lorenzo Maillard Yes, well said: "a kind of CSL"! The M3 GTS had character and an amazing engine, but felt more like a publicity stunt, than a car engineer's dream, in my opinion! For my taste, there are only three real driver's cars: the M3 CSL, the CLK 63 AMG and the 911 GT3 RS 4.0! Of course, everyone of us would like to drive a Ferrari, a Lamborghini, a Pagani or a Bugatti etc., but those cars are more for showing off, their engineering principle being more "drive by wire", than "drive by feel"! Of course, every car can be enjoyed and my list could be bigger, but those three, i think, are at the top of their game!
James Cutter Unfortunately not from what I heard in BMW Blog. The current snobby boss at ///M thinks that there's no reason to do so because the F80/F82 are already at least 80kg lighter than the previous models. Still, its much heavier than the E46 CSL so I think they ought to do a CSL edition. And make the engine rev to at least 8200rpm.
Yeah you're right about the GTS, not mentioning the price they were asking for when it came out! I agree for the GT3 RS 4.0 and the CLK 63. I also want to ad that these kind of cars, a bit stripped out (roll cage, less equipements), dynamically improved and more track focused should be the entry level price and not the other way around ;) I'm a bit too optimistic here...
The induction noise on that CSL is just fantastic! Want to listen to that everyday all day!
The M235i is not available with a DCT, but a very good ZF 8 speed auto that can shift as fast as a dual clutch... no clue why this tester said it was available with a DCT...
Mark Speed6 you can get a race version for 24 hour races without road legalness. even that has got an 8speed zf, so i doubt you can get a dct. hes just wrong.
Liked the vid before I even watched it. Knew it was going to be a good one. The best thing is I saw a CSL yesterday and walked around it. Just love it! :D
Great video guys, please make an E92 M3 vs M4 comparo when possible. Keep up the good work.
"modern cars tend to be heavier" - no they don't - CSL is lighter because BMW did everything to make it lighter... ;)
the csl is a particularly light car yes, but modern cars do tend to be heavier. thats a fact. take and e30 3 series compared to a e90 , compare an old ford escort to a new focus. even teh new range rover with so much plastic in it is 400kg heavier than the original. modern cars are bigger and heavier.
uhhhh, yes they do. That's well documented.
Similarly sized cars weigh almost the same as they did it the past. Not all of them, but M235i does.
but thats part of the point Marian, each generation of cars are getting bigger as well as heavier.
e30 m3 - 1165kg
e36 m3 - 1460kg
e46- m3 1570kg
e90m3 - 1605kg.
i didnt bother listing all the other measurements, but as you can expect, the newer cars are larger
Marian Cihoň The reason why is greater safety requirements. The newer cars tend to be heavier.
I love this guy, very clever comments, sharp driving skills. Excellent video, thanks for posting it!
very good review, very objective and thorough...
Great review
Great review.
He was right about appreciating classic. Back to this video again years later. Where is this dude. He can wheel hard.
Great video and where's this reviewer nowadays? He did a great job! I love the CSL a bit more than the 235i, but the M2, coming out in March, will be a whole other weapon!
I don't normally comment, but excellent video guys!
great "review" subscribed !!
This guy is one of the best (if not the best) presenters among all car channels on youtube. Want more of his reviews and/or track battles please
maybe you missed the mistakes in the video... simple details that a car enthusiast should absolutely know .. for instance ..
the M235 is NOT a twin turbo but a single scroll turbo and is NOT offered with a dual clutch but a ZF 8speed tranny.
This guy is reading a script or something .. no way someone misses those things and is a BMW enthusiast.
Phil Anthony zf 8-speed IS a dual clutch tranny, but I honestly don't know if engine is twin turbo or not. Anyway mistakes are for humans. Giving so much feedback to viewers while driving the hell out of a car is not easy. I enjoy his commentary and driving skills a lot. Still think he is one of the best out there... but that's just me ;)
crepu33 No it's not.
crepu33 Phil Anthony The M235i has the N55 engine which uses a single, twin scroll turbo. The older BMW turbo inline 6, called the N54, had a twin turbo setup. And the ZF 8-Speed box it uses is a regular torque converter automatic, not a dual clutch.
irfuel anotherone10 MrBiohazard878 Phil Anthony ZF 7-speed is dual clutch, but not this 8-speed... you are all correct :) But this does not change my view about the presenter himself
Great Review!! Just subscribed.
Auto Express this Video is very insiteful and informational, can you do a m2 vs CSL when the m2 launches please.
+Auto Express ok so can you do this now?
I am happy to own E46 M3 6-speed Coupe in Imola Red and I can tell you that even 7 years since I got it, this car still delivers big pleasure and excitement every time I sit behind the wheel. For many years after E46 M3, BMW has struggled to produce something more exciting and more appreciated for the hard core fans, but to my opinion without success
Awesome video! Good comparison to make and well executed by the presenter! Really nice to see the M3 CSL actually bettering the new car in some ways. Be interesting to see how the new M2 or M3 will stack up. Wont expect them to beat it in the looks department at least ;)
I have a. Z4M coupe, and it feels great to own a future classic naturally aspirated straight 6. Love that csl though.
M235i is not an M car, it's not even a 3 series car. Considering it has new "Comfort/IT" technologies E46 lacks, and uncomparably lower "total cost of ownership" (especially mileage, but in Germany also insurance + taxes) I think it's quite amazing it achieved the same lap time as E46 M3, yet alone M3 CSL. For the same price I'd pick the the new M235i over now aged E46 M3 (including CSL version) anytime. In fact I'd pick it over E46 M3 even if that one would be brand new too, because it is simply cheaper to maintain and more suitable for today's "normal usage". And I say it as someone who considers E46 M3 the most beautiful BMW ever.
I would pick the M235i too - but it wouldn't be cheaper to own. Depreciation is the biggest cost to consider
He f*cked up by getting the E46 with an SMG.. I love that car though!
The CSL only comes in SMG. That's the part that kinda sucks.
FRonTLinES10064 At least the CSL's SMG is apparently a bit better, on a track at least. I've never driven one but I understand that the software tweaks helped that transmission considerably.
FRonTLinES10064 However it is was a manual it would already be a £80k car. The SMG is a blessing in disguise to a certain extent.
CSL all day f that lil turbo shit
Those CSL wheels are timeless
I'd love to know what tyres it was running through this test. I know the CSL comes with semi slick tyres as standard, if it was running those tyres through this, the CSL would be at a massive advantage.
A great video review, thanks for uploading.
That CSL sounds fantastic. A true M car at its best.
I am an m235i owner and very happy with everything it comes with in the fact that this car is no pure M car no, doubt the CSL is a special car but reviewers to keep comparing the m235i with pure M performance means bmw did something right with the m235i
Im amazed by the looks of that M3 such a old car to be cool and modern looking to this day
Owen rocks! Common man u gotta give us the porsche 918 vs maclaren p1, epic!!!!!
M235i for the daily grind. M3 CSL for the weekends.
m3 CSL will keep its value much much better its not even comparable..
The fastest thing in this video is that guy's mouth. Jeezus H Cristos, yakety yakety yak.
those gear changes in the CSL, you're meant to let go of the accelerator when using the paddle shifts
How prices have gone up since this vid!
With all that said it looks far better than even the normal E46 m3 cost £60,000 new had 360 hp & what an noise sounds amazing
Great test but just 2 points I need to mention. Firstly, the M235i is a single turbo not a bi turbo, it was the 1M that had the bi turbo motor. Secondly, its not available with a dual clutch transmission but rather with the fantastic ZF 8 speed.
you need to do some e36 m3 reviews/comparos
Any chance for a review of the xDrive version of the M235i in a near future?
I thought the most extreme E46 M3 was the rare GTR with a V8 engine.
Very few of those exist... I think it's less than 10 worldwide.
The induction sound🥵🥵🥵
Forgive me for not knowing this but is there a reason why the CSL's bumper has an intake hole only on one side of the car? Substance over style for sure.
Even down to the CSL alloys - some of the best I’ve seen on a BMW
Man I can't wait to get a m3 csl!
good reviewer
The E46 M3 one of my favorite cars. Hardly ever see this cars on the road now days.
The old SMG have that feel "stop and go" you feel the gear changes
I took a drink every time he said 8,000 rpm and now I have no booze left
The old BMWs were unsurpassed cars in design and in the emotions they could give ⭐
Two errors: the 2 series doesn't have a twin turbo, it's a single turbo with two scrolls. And, it's not offered with a twin clutch auto, it's a ZF torque converter.
I would take the E46 M3 in a hearbeat, an absolutely masterpiece of a machine !
//M Power!
Ohhh "que casualidad" el mismo tiempo da da da...
Fast forward to 2020 and that 35k CSL is 50 to 100k
This one has been fitted with a radio that's what im talking about. Back when it was brand new it didn't come with a radio and i need tunes.
why are his gauges primarily in MPH if the drivers seat is on the right?
You cant compare a m3 csl which was a SPECIAL edition of the m3 to the m235i.The m235i isnt even a full m product.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the M235i doesn't have a dual clutch transmission. I drove one today and loved it.
pause at 3:59 ! It's a different driver for the laptime in the CSL
video is perfect.
Watching this now 8 years on - 34k for a CSL haha now there’re 80k and up. Mad to see how much they’ve appreciated and a 235i can be picked up for as little as 14k
why did the csl time disappear near the end?
Those wheels on the E46 ... ahhhh yeah
Still Beautiful after all these Years...
I wonder if the csl. Had the factory race tires