Hi Does it cost anything to join? Sorry to have to be cheap, genuinely love you guys, but unfortunately I'm often very skint and couldn't keep up regular payments. No worries if it does cost though I get plenty from your free to watch content, great stuff guys, thanks for Keeping putting it out there :)
33 minutes. I totally agree with her point that some don't want to get their hands dirty so they focus on softer and (potentially) less important issues. This is so true and symptomatic of so many so called activists and campaigners, and severely undermines the push and struggle for real change on important issues.
As a retired sex worker (street based), it's not the oldest profession, there had to be at least one prior, cos we needed to be paid! I don't disagree with anything JB has said. It took years of determination and therapy to recover from my "empowering career". Harm reduction charities save women's lives, simple as.
Slavery and work are not the same thing. Stop confusing them, your arguments only make it easier to prosecute sex workers and enable extra-regulatory abuses, just like all other labour.
@@nickcharles1284 Sure, but what relevance does 'printed' add? No matter the form of currency, money is money. Also, as I think Julie said in the interview, midwifery almost certainly predates prostitution.
Re: money: money is printed or minted currency. I associate 'paid' with money. Trade is trade. As you note it is a minor aside. I would say the oldest profession is agriculture. As it results in a tradable item within the context of an organized community. (Certainly there were parallel professions e.g. pottery). Prior to that 'midwifery' was simple what happened naturally: women helping women give birth and not rewarded with currency. @@as3609
I was 18 when I became a stripper , it went on 7 years . What no one talks about is the Psychological block of leaving the industry, because I’d been told I’d ruined my life and no one could accept me in a normal job/relationship etc I started to believe it after a while at my core . It’s only when your out and your out for a few years you can see the problems .
@@snoozyq9576 It always seemed to me that transitioning from a lot of money for a short amount of time investment (sex work) to a normal job where you make drastically less money for far more time and effort is difficult for people to accept as well. Especially if you're getting paid hundreds or even thousands of dollars an hour as a prostitute. But one can't hook forever, and I'm not aware of many hookers who saved up and retired early. They usually spend what they get self-medicating.
@@Genarii Where I live all the hookers are junkies. They are dishing out blowjobs on street corners for like £20 because that's all they're gonna get. Most of them have no teeth and and seriously underweight. Not all sex workers are in the same circumstances. Some might be really attractive, have had a good family life and charge a lot of money and in my opinion then that's their choice. I don't feel sorry for these people. It's the ones who've grown up the hard way (abused, no family, junkie family, trafficked, etc) and ended up with a habit and to feed that habit they will do whatever for a quick fix. It becomes their life and I can't imagine a life much worse.
@@Genarii The idea of working a short amount of time is a myth of the s industry. You end up working the same hours as a regular job shift. Sometimes you make no money. Sometimes you make lots of money. It's not a dependable source of income. It all depends on how many customers come in at any given time while you're on shift and how much money they're willing to drop.
I was in a French class back in 2005ish. The teacher asked the predominantly female class who identified as a 'feminist'. Almost no one. She was horrified that women ranging in age, occupation and race didn't want the label of feminist which in her mind was Julie's generation of warriors; not today's clique of whiners.
I do fully agree. 👍 I didn't know her until to this great and honest conversation. A conversation of clear common sense, brutal truth of reality, talking about these deep self betrayal and lies including the ridiculous childish feminist- whining. She reminds me very much of Alice Schwarzer in Germany.
15 years ago my favorite english teachers in highschool were feminists. They exuded a love for the subject of English and were perfectly happy to talk about feminism but didn't bully anyone with rhetoric into echoing their beliefs back at them. They gave me a great respect for feminists and a lifelong love of English. Sadly, my most disliked lecturer in university is an English lecturer who claims she's a feminist but she is of the contemporary kind that can't define what a women is. Her classes are heart breaking. I've lost all respect for the modern incarnation of feminism and those that support it. I've learned that the contemporary form of feminism is a pseudo-feminism that doesn't care about women except for those women that agree with their beliefs. It bullies people to see the world their way and dehumanizes those that don't. I'm well aware of respectable feminists existing. They're the sort who faced bullets in Iran not too long ago, they show an actual understanding of men's psych and issues and get called terfs for mentioning the biological differences between men and women or arguing against allowing men in women's spaces. I still respect feminists, just not all of them and know for sure that not all feminists that call themselves feminists are in fact, feminists. Anyone who wants a good English education are better off downloading textbooks and taking courses on UA-cam. Much cheaper too.
What of those who have no academic success and end up in low-paid work? Why should they stay skint just to please feminists? rsvp Bindel should stick to her own crowd- what of gay-guys who are hookers? rsvp
@@martin5504 Thats not comparable. In many countries you are forced to have at least basic military training as a man, in a lot of countires you need to to serve several years in military as a man. Comparing sex work with by law enforced military service does not compute. And it is still in nearly all countries, that (only) a man is supposed to serve in war, but not women. Both cases should be completly free choices made by the individual. Another case is enforced sex work by women which get kidnapped into other countries or get lurde here by criminal organisations with promises and so forth. Completly different thing and discussion.
Hitler IS a mid level dictator!! Feminists don't know much about history. Stalin was worse, Mao was wayyy worse. There's current day people who are legitimately worse, proof of which is that I cannot tell you who I think they are because the comment would never be seen. I don't think traumatised damaged people can lead large movements without bias that's asking for trouble. This woman needs less stress not more!
@@DailyCorvid as someone who’s family lost everything when Mao took over in 1949 and had to flee, you’re 110% right. The stubby moustache man was horrible but far from the worst from an honest perspective
@@brutustantheiii8477 Ten years ago this is the point I would have made a funny joke about Hitler still being alive in the body of a current UK politician! But it just so happens that the current guy isn't white, and so any joke I make will be reconstructed as a Nazi salute and I shall be impaled on the end of it then castrated. So I shant. Lol. I hope you and your family did manage to recover to a decent standard of life. You're in a better country and situation now I bet! Making comments on UA-cam where the worst oppression you will see is comment moderation lol.
@Suicide Booth : No, that not correct. I suggest you go back to the eighties to read more on the beginnings. Initially the trans movement did have feminists support but that waned as early as 2000 when the socialist global mob took over feminism and cast out the real feminists like Greer, et al. [EDIT: Do you realise feminism has two distinct branches ? ]
@Suicide Booth The trans movement is a corporate fiction created to open up new markets for profit and sneakily presented as a human rights campaign. Behind all those fragile 'identities' and corporate branding theres just men and women, boys and girls and a cashed up juggernaut driven by autogynephile men.
@Suicide Booth It always feels like I just touched an electric fence when I hear or read someone saying that females are the blame and responsible for men/males pretending to be female. It truly is a WTH shock. So, females used what power to get a man/male to decide they think they are a female...and then "get" them to act on it? Whenever I see or hear this kind of nonsense (stupidity really), I'm thinking this is a person that holds a deep issue with and against females. You need to go back in your booth, Booth. Although, I will agree with you that today we are at a level of lunacy with the trans movement. But these are men/males that are pretending to be female. So, following your logic, it is men/males that are pulling our fabric to shreds because they are now at the top of "victimhood".
"feminism is not about being equal to men. feminism is about liberation of women." - by far the best and most accurate quote ever about this topic. YES YES YES!
@@fioafionawright8604 You might be asking that question because your are coming from a place of priviledge. Many women around the world still seek libration from men and do not have rights to their own bodies, to educate themselves, to have their own finances etc. Don't forget only 47 years ago was a woman allowed to have her OWN BANK account in the UK.
@@fioafionawright8604 Liberation for nature and responsibility. You don't have to be married long to notice that if you divide the work load up based on who is good at what, you end up with something like the traditional roles, in most of the cases. I don't thi kji could every understand the connection between a mother and their baby. And I don't think women will ever understand what it feels like to be the expendable one, and expected to die to save women and children.
What I do admire about JB is that she focuses very much on the women who are far from rich and powerful positions. And she doesn't shy away from difficult issues. She walks the walk. And too few women who call themselves feminists will do that.
I am In this profession and Julie offers a very one sided view on the matter. I hope trigonometry also interviews people from the other end of the spectrum.
Is a woman who demands expensive dates before the bedroom a prostitute? If not why not? Sex has always been transactional. In some countries there are girls who go out when they're feeling frisky and find guys in bars etc that they find attractive and make clear they expect money. Are they sex workers?
Julie and her supporters won’t understand that simple fact. Why the activity that is frowned upon if it’s for pay but it’s completely acceptable when it’s done for nothing?
Right? Before I knew about more recent feminist agenda, I didn’t know what people would reel at describing oneself as a “feminist”. But still, I thought, one has a right to keep describing oneself with the word, even if others have gone off the deep end somewhat, eh? Now, I’m finally turned off by using the word casually to be associated with blatant narcissists and predators. Not to mention all the issues that HAVE NOT been discussed or objected to by current feminist movements.
Very interesting at the end. When she was talking about coerced sex or rape in relationships. She said, "Ask any woman of a certain age..." I thought she meant OLDER women. But it turned out she meant younger, "women under thirty...." That really gave me chills.
yeah, most teen pregnancies are caused by men 25-35 as well. and young girls are often subject to boys testing boundraries and older mens fantasies. It doest stop when u get older, but you learn to see it coming a mile away.
@@blah914yeah I’ve been traumatized by my first sexual experiences. He wouldn’t tell me what he wanted to try or do, he would just do it. It was so scary.
There is a show on one of the crime networks called 'Undercover Underage' about a young looking 38 year old woman who has all these aliases as a 15 year old Instagram content creator in order to see how many older men would follow her. Its chilling how many older men are interested in teenage girls. She sets up a sting, and when she gathers enough evidence, hands it over to the police.
I've listened to Julie Bindel before. I do think she has a a lot of valuable stuff to say. I don't agree with in her 100%, but I can say that about every one. These conversations we need. Same with triggernometry fellas, the contribute valuable counter points.
i would love to have a heated debate with her, because i know she wouldn't shy away from it and blame its heatedness on my male violence traits, but she would argue her points with educated intellect
I spoke to a friend recently in ireland whos a psychotherapist he told me one of the biggest issue he's seeing with young male clients is both sex and porn addiction. He said it starts with porn addiction then the move onto constant casual hookups and they move on to prostitution because they want what they're seeing on porn sites.
@@kellharris2491 it's also indicative of a bigger issue: men need sex to be healthy, it's how humans evolved, and men look at porn only because they are not getting the real thing. All the people who have a problem with the existence of porn are just spinning their wheels. Men will never stop being sexually minded.
I like her general, disagreeable attitude a lot. I identify with and respect people like her, people who tell the truth exactly as they see it, and aren't afraid of confrontation. Also, she totally changed my views on prostitution. I suppose that being too libertarian is a thing, lol.
Libertarian is about having the personal liberty to do pretty much whatever as a personal choice, not a moral code that any personal choice is acceptable. You're completely free to ruin yourself as long as you don't affect other people's own personal liberties. How common this concept flies over the heads of people...
I was unmoved by her arguments, "I know better than you, you shouldn't be doing sex work, you should be cleaning a sewer somewhere". She points to problems that exist but doesn't give any solutions.
Excellent discussion! Well done for finding such an interesting and informative guest. Love the polite and persistent pushback from you guys, respectful requests for clarification and the wealth of common ground found during the conversation. Julie is doing important and commendable work for vulnerable women in poverty and abuse, and is grounded in the real world. She gives an account of feminism that is realistic and persuasive - a rare treat!
Hello, great conversation. I'm a female firefighter and wanted to add my piece about the uniform talk. Female firefighters are 30% more likely to get burns than their male colleagues because the uniform doesn't fit properly. That's the main issue for me. Yes, it is a male dominated industry and it will take time to adapt to a rise in women but this is quite a basic thing. There is a lot of misogyny in the fire brigade so focusing on minor stuff (like air conditioning that we do not have in stations anyway) seems so trivial. Love Bindel and all her work and enjoyed the questions from you both. Thank you
This show reminds me of the days we used to sit with my grandmother, mom, and aunts/uncle on the weekends with a pot of coffee and just talk about the world.
There were no female crash test dummies. After much furore they substituted a child model which is not going to have the same weight distribution, size etc as a grown woman. There were no pregnant crash test dummies, again the knowledge gap is killing us. Things that seem small can run deeper.
Not to mention birth control. I believe the pill for men didnt make it through trials and was cancelled bc the men were experiencing all of the same side effects women have suffered with while on the pill and still do.
Let me ask you a question: how much extra would you like to pay for an add-on to the standard seatbelt (of course that comes with the car) that allows every individual with any kind of body type, height, and condition (like pregancy) to be equally safe? What would be your budget for such a feature on a brand new car? Alternatively: if all cars came with such device, how much would your budget for a brand new car shift?
Exactly! Fire fighters wear their gear for a reason and if women are less sage because they have ill fiting equipment its not enough to say that its a historically male dominated field. Women are in the field in the present day and why should their employers be off the hook in catering for their basic safety needs.
Why are the overwhelming majority of men firefighters?! REALLY? Not that many women are interested. It’s an incredibly physically demanding job. There aren’t that many men who are physically capable of doing it. There’s much fewer women.
Please people, wake up! We need more voices of reason like this… I’m not a feminist but just the fact she shit on micro aggressions tells me she’s actually sane, unlike many people on the left these days…
@@Cbd_7ohm well what did she then say that would indicate insanity? She talked about women who are victims of grape and abuse. Do you think that is insane?
Only people who are privileged want to be victims. Nobody, not a single real person can stand feeling so powerless, so worthless. People have to cope somehow. Accepting what has been done to you is absolutely disheartening but also necessary for healing. Victims deny, mask and cope, until they are loved and cared for and feel it's safe enough to sit in that pain and begin to heal.
My biggest issue is that many of them aren't even victims. They make up slights and want to be victims so they get sympathy and attention from others. I think we have swung too far from the old days of "shut up and get on with it" to now where everything is a slight and everyone is a potential victim. Stoicism has been replaced with permanently feeling sorry for oneself.
Thank you for having Julie Bindel on. I knew about her championing of women’s sex-based rights against trans madness, but not her support of working class women, which the third wave is sorely lacking.
To be fair, social movements always tend to be primarily focused on mid to upper class people, the working class is practically a separate world where you see what actvists talk about, then you look around the shithole where you live and almost none of it applies.
As a woman...I'm hoping a male firefighter comes to drag my butt out of a building. Jobs that require a lot of physical strength are going to draw men more than women because they are inherently stronger...this being most of the time, but not all. It makes me angry that they lower the bar for women so they can meet "standards"...but they aren't really the standards. We do ourselves zero favors by allowing women to be "less than" in positions all for the sake of equality and diversity.
That's the whole problem with inclusion. If it was simply a myth that men develop more physical strength, it would be a non issue. But since standards have to be lowered in military service, police and all other physical work that serve the community, it makes inclusion a dangerous thing indeed. There are very physically strong women that would hand my ass to me in a fight any day, but sadly that's not the reality of a big slice of women. A very trained woman and a very trained man trying to lift the same thing will yield different results. And that's my whole protest to all of this as well. We can argue about sports any day of the week, but public servant organizations and armies should find suitable jobs for those who cannot pass the bar. There's always something one can do that doesn't put lives at risk in those occupations. Women are just as cognitively gifted as men are and should use their brains and abilities to use without having to do the exact same jobs all the time.
@@rodholseth6354 I would recommend the hypothesis put forward by Eric Kaufmann on the Free Speech Nation segment of GB news recently. Here is part of what he said; " Cultural socialism is the idea that public policy should be used to redistribute wealth, power, and self-esteem from privileged to underprivileged groups in society-notably, historically disadvantaged racial and sexual minorities and women. The term “socialism” is used here in the European sense of egalitarianism..." He also said that according to Cultural Socialism, these concerns should trump the free speech rights of people.
As a gay man, I love Julie Bindel. She stands up for the sensible middle ground. And I get the impression she's lots of fun in her personal life, has good humour and genuine warmth.
I don't necessarily agree with her on everything but she brought up a lot of fantastic points and I could tell her intentions come from all the injustices she has witnessed and fought against first hand. I wasn't sure if I could call myself a feminist anymore but this excellent interview made me reaffirm that we need to reclaim that term from the rabid activists who have lost the plot.
Female firefighters is such an unfortunate example because physical strength actually matters in many life-or-death situations. FF equipment is heavy, bulky and cumbersome.
Exactly. As a woman, I would be quite comfortable with few to no female firefighters. Women need to be realistic. I don't think there are any true feminists in a burning building or foxhole when shit is going down.
1:12:58 why is it only applies to 'male partners'? female partners are also perfectly capable of coercion, manipulation and blackmail and do it freely and willingly to both women and men, but we don't see Julie calling them r**ists now, do we?
"We should not be responsible for our own safety" is an untenable position. We are all responsible for our own safety Men and Women. People absolutely should not be doing horrible things, but there are horrible people out there who do horrible things, and if you put your safety in someone elses hands, then you never truly have it.
Not just foolish. It's a dangerous stance. This is the same tripe Jessica Chastain told her giant audience: don't do self defence because men should just not rape.
It’s weird bc I understand what you’re saying butif you apply that to gang rape in India for eg it doesn’t make any sense. Certain things do have to be eradicated in society & people do deserve to live in a society where basic safety is guaranteed. That’s kinda the whole point of living in a civilised society.
Why? She was a criminal and a thief. She believes in microaggressions. She complained about feeling women had to be lcked in their homes for their safety and then IMMEDIATELY locked all men in their homes and was happy about it. She's a hypocrite. A criminal. And a Femnazi. Why would you give a shit or give any respect to such a despicable, vile human being?
@@ehnanimoose2092 pfff, you obviously can't look over her past and past opinion. You obviously the woke type that can never forgive and forget. Her points about male abuse, discrimination in criminal law (which has many aspects, she deals with one certain aspect of it), and prostitution are worthy of attention. Whatever there is in her past.
@@richardkovacs2006 I made my comments when I got fed up with her idiocy and left the video. If she said something worthwhile after all her toxic idiocy drove me away, it's too little too late. I gave her a chance. She proudly yipped about her privilege as a woman and started waving her femnazi flag around. Exactly how much drivel and stupidity do you expect me to listen to before it's "ACCEPTABLE" in your wokist locust eyes to write somebody off as not worth listening to?
@@ehnanimoose2092 Why? Because she's one of the few of her ilk who actually has the balls to sit down and have a conversation and share her views with the other side. She may have some out there ideas that a lot of us can't get on board with, but at least she isn't afraid of that disagreement. In a way, by doing this, she has taken the revolutionary step of getting both sides back together for a real, honest discussion. That's so important in turning the tide back to sanity and common sense. You don't have to respect everything a person has said and done to give them credit where credit is due.
What she speaks of hits home to me as someone who found herself in a relationship with a predator. The system protects these men. When I reported rape the social service team reached out to ask him it the kids were safe with me...it's a shameful existence that no one can understand until you see or live it.
Sorry I dont believe that for a second ! A woman has just to accuse a man of any kind of crime and this man is in deep trouble ! So, sorry, I dont believe that for one bit ! And how come you were in a relationship with a predator ? Didn't you see ANY red flags when you met this man ? Or was that the great appeal and attraction you felt towards this man from the start ? And before you begin bashing on me My thoughts on any kind of abusive toxic and destructive relationship, is that the one (man or woman) acting that way should rot in hell and in the meantime should be punished end thrown in jail/prison !!! Women can also be the one who is abusive toxic and destructive in a relationship !!! And that is just the reality !!!
@@seriously1184 I really recommend that you explore the psychology behind domestic abuse. It is an extremely well documented issue that leaving ones abuser is very difficult. That way you can stop judgimg strangers on the internet without any knowledge into their personal business.
@@Shasha-jo5iv Oh you mean like battered wife syndrome ? Or maybe even the Stockholm syndrome ? Or do you mean the personality disorders (clusters A, B and C) mentioned in the DSM-5 ? Or maybe you mean ALL the other disorders mentioned in the DSM-V ? Yeah, unfortunately I know a lot of this matter, because I had to inform myself into this just to be able to navigate through this world full of dysfunctional and very destructive and very toxic people ! So which part of psychology do you mean or are you referring to ?
@@Shasha-jo5iv admirable, but you can't talk any sense into men like this. He is absolutely blinded by hatred of women-probably originating from hatred of his mother-and believes any abuse we get is right and proper. Any time we step out of line and talk about our rights or the reality of abuse against women, he will rave and rant and whinge about how we dont actually have it bad _enough._ This is a permanent toddler filled with an adult man's rage... and they project like _we're_ the hyper-emotional ones! LOL anger is an emotion, bucko!
One of the most depressing tactics on the woke side is "educate yourself" and "do better". These are flippant, assholish and reactionary responses that shut both sides up. The recipient will rightly feel offended, and the responder thinks their position is unassailable and wont ever hear anything outside of the echo chamber. And some are in the know and think this is a feature not a flaw.
I had to stop at 17 min in. - I hate the cherry picking. Most men don't get away with murder with the excuse of depression and some women also get away with leniency that isn't deserved. - Everyone should be responsible for their own safety, as no one else has more agency. You can't expect there to be no evil people, and you can't expect someone else to be responsible for your safety just because they have the same gender. - Women who stay in abusive relationships when they can leave are the victims and aren't responsible for the offending, but they did choose not to take the opportunity to get themselves out of that horrible situation.
@@geroldgrimel4811true but if ugot no money you live in a tent under a bridge or stay with abusive partner but its the female who picked the wrong guy to be with yes a cynical view.
Shame. You may have missed out on some common ground you could've had. I've learned to listen more and give up less, especially when it comes to guests of Francis and Konstantin!
"Most men don't get away with murder with the excuse of depression" Men always (ALWAYS) get away with both rape and murder of women while being excused for it, people going "He's a good man", or "She must have provoked him", or "What was she wearing", or "He was a sad lone wolf". When men insult and harass women it's a "joke" or a "compliment", when men batter women it's "his way of showing love". The gaslighting that they don't is just pure evil. Please stop lying.
“Excuse me, while you’re talking about FGM and sex slavery: Why don’t feminists advocate for things that matter? Lemme read a whole list of things you didn’t mention real quick.” -presented without a shred or irony.
If you want to abolish sex work, abolish the demand. If the demand is there, no amount of prohibition will stop it. This can be done by discouraging men from viewing women as sex objects.
The genetic need to reproduce is always going to be there. If it wasn't we wouldn't be. You will never get rid of the demand. The problem is the way society has warped our sexuality. We have comodified it. Porn doesn't need adverts. It's seeked out because of our programming. We need to cut the supply off and then the prerequisites of being in a stable relationship will return. No porn and sex workers will force men to step up and find a partner. As humans we like the easy route in most cases. We need to make the easy route through marriage again... Its a very messy situation with the blame laying at the feet of both sexs.
This was sooo hard to process at some points because of the literal insanity that's going around in these circles. I'm really glad I listened though. This should be spread far and wide. I'm so glad that people like her exist and you guys are doing a marvelous job with these interviews. Thank you all🙏🏻
What an excellent idea to have Julie Bindel on! Whether you agree with her and her hard-core manner, she is a woman on a mission who knows her stuff and has so much to say! Thank you!
I even heard she has chilled out on the 'everything is socially constructed' BS and at least she is willing to have a conversation. I first heard of her when she had a debate with Milo Yan.....whatever his name is about 5 years ago now
Paying for intercouse is such strange thing to me. By accident I am disabled, but I can't imagine to have loveless, heartless intercouse with someone, who actually isn't aroused by me and wants my money, but does not want me and I am feeling it the way, that I don't want such partner either. It's lacks something, that I am deeply prefering in compare to ab expensive physical exercise. When it hurts me, I want to give myself to someone I deeply care about.
Work and slavery are not the same thing. Also, maybe as someone who is disabled in our society you could understand how differently people may think about their own vs others sexuality. Not everyone feels identically, that's just Bindels privilege showing. Do you know artists who sell work they care about? Do you know artists that sell cheap work. Do you know artists that don't or shouldn't sell their work at all? Same goes with any labour. Capitalism alienates all of us from our passions. Bindel hates trans women too, she's also supported Peter Singer who publishes primarily to advocate for the extermination of disabled people like yourself and I. Bindel mimes being gay as a political choice too. She's even admitted it and advocated others to do the same.
You are lucky because you know what real love and intimacy feel like and how preferable they are to empty, emotionless exchanges. Unfortunately not everybody has experience of that & knows what it feels like, so they content themselves with lifeless substitutes for the real thing.
11 місяців тому
and if you see the state of most prossies haggered, no teeth due to being drug addled, dirty and old clothes most of the time, disgraceful these punters must be so, so low down..!
@@jesipohl6717 Mimes being gay? You mean she's straight at heart? I would identify her as a lesbian from a mile's distance. Of course impressions may be wrong, but everything in her appearance, way of speech, mannerisms etc. gives this sort of signal.
She's well meaning but wrong. Paying for sex is a way to compensate for differences in desire and risk associated with partnered sex. It goes primarily male to female because females bear -- quite literally! -- the burdens of risks in such sex acts.
Great conversation! Wonderful to listen to 3 intelligent, reasonable, honest people having a discussion about crucial issues. Don't agree with everything Julie says but she's truly amazing ❤ one of my favourite Triggernometry podcasts
Should females be fire fighters? I suppose if they can pass all phycial requirements the same as the male fire fighters that would be fine, but most women are not as physically strong by men. Seems reasonable that most fire fighters are and should be men.
@@brendancoulter5761yep. Just like the actual policing side of the police. It's a meme the amount of arrests policewomen are overpowered by. We should be behind the scenes working with victims and whatnot.
It's always so refreshing watching these kinds of conversations with different points of view yet being able to sit down and actually talk. No shouting, screaming, interrupting, or crying, just 3 adults discussing different issues with different ways of viewing them. Thanks, Triggernomety!
I was a child during the 70s when Sutcliffe was at large. I knew that most of the women were prostitutes, and had had it explained what that was, but as a kid of 10 or 11 my immediate thought was to be abhorred by what he had done, not to judge the women for their life style or choices. Kids don't have prejudice. We learn it from adults.
@@loganblackwood2922They say it is better to remain silent and let people think you a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt. You are a self confessed idiot. Ask your mummy, a teacher or your carer to define the word 'learn'. When children are born they know nothing. They have a few instincts, however in their formative years, everything they learn is from the adults around them. Especially their thinking system. Clearly you were brought up by morons and have not been taught a thinking system.
I was a kid in Bradford when the Ripper was murdering women. I was terrified he'd get my mum or my aunts. Those dark winter nights were bleak, cold and sinister.
Kids dont have prejudice ? that has to be the stupidest thing ive ever heard.. trying being DIFFERENT at school, u will see how many prejudice children really have..
@@CreamNall_the ability for prejudice is a useful thing we're born with and it's meant to protect us and our group, but which we're often shaped to use it wrongly. It's something we need to be aware of, as all our more dangerous instincts, not to tramp down our instincts, but to use them in ways which aren't stupid. We also are born with instincts to make friends with unusual people -- *if* we can recognize when it's safe to do so, because it also can be useful.
A sad moment in my life was when I saw on FB that my former high school sweetheart, was using hookers. He was so corrupt that he was boasting about it to his fellow corporate psycho pals in Houston. I wondered if he was always an evil man? He has two failed marriages behind him so far.
Lmao, so a man is evil because he doesn't want to get suckered into a third marriage in order to get some poon? You're not entitled to marriage sweety.
@@bigglyguy8429 There is no reality in having to pay for it. lt's just empty. Empty sex and empty life. People are clueless if they think it doesn't affect their mind and soul.
I agree people shouldn't be responsible for their safety in cases they are attacked, but I don't think violence can be simply educated away. As long as violent people are out there, I will be taking safety to my own hands.
That’s like saying we should be able to leave our doors unlocked and not get burgled, where as in truth our best option is to try and keep ourselves as safe as possible.
If you were walking down th falls road , in the dark , wearing an Orange sash on a Marching Day , you'd not only be a fool , youd be a dead one ! Personal resposibility is EXACTLY that ! It's the same situation in ANY walk of life , WHATEVER the context ; wearing a liverpool shirt inEverton , waving a flag , any denomintion , in the middle east etc ETC... Where did common sense reatreat to nowaday's ...
But that's thing. Its like telling the robbed that they should have taken precautions and not gone out of the house in the first place. Believe me women do *everything* to keep themselves safe, from pepper sprays, to tasers. Yet somehow we are supposed to vebso safe that we don't step out at all.
Julie shouldn't be labeled as 'hardline' she is just a decent person who fights for the truly oppressed, which are disproportionally women. Grotesque crimes like abortion of female infants, female infanticide, female child and women slavery, little girl and women sex slavery, female acid victims, murder of females, violence and indecent acts against women and girls on pornography which are easily available to all, and which primes male and boys to think of this as a 'how to treat women' manual. thank you Julie. xxxx
These are all crimes. To bring feminism into them assumes that justice is not being served within the current judicial system, i.e. its fundamentally patriarchal and biased against women. Yes, there were a lot of 'Victorian' values sewn up in the courts in days gone by, based on specific roles men and women were supposed to play in society, though that could be equally prejudiced against men if they were seen to be acting outside of their role. We simply don't have this kind of society anymore and pushing women's priorities, which simply means lack of accountability in a lot of cases, over men's is only going to lead to more vitriol in men, which will invariably lead to more violence against women. We need to treat people as people, that's the only way we can get anywhere near a just society.
Some of those are crimes that exist outside UK. I think in UK men and women have their own issues at a more balanced measure than the way depicted above. Men are at higher risk of homicide (73% male) and suicide (approx 75%) as two examples.
@R K men are the biggest victims of violent crime, but also the majority perpetrators. Women have more self harm attempts men are more 'successfully the self harm endeavour. There is nothing wrong advocating/tailoring solution or bespoke programs for males and ones for female victims of crime or self harm. Men should feel free to set up support groups to help men and boys and women should be able to do so for women and girls.
"who fights for the truly oppressed, which are disproportionally women." Total bollocks. Men are overwhelmingly the victims of violence and murder. Almost every single example you give is totally wrong. Girls were being aborted because boys were legally required to pay for their parents retirement when they get older effectively making them slaves to their parents. Girls had no such responsibility. If I had to choose between being aborted or enslaved, I choose to be murdered before birth in a heartbeat.
@@zootsoot2006 "more violence against women" and there you go forgetting about men, in your own defence of men. It will lead to more violence period. As society falls apart, all violence will go up.
"We should not be responsible for our own safety. Men should not be killing. Men should not be raping." Who is this for exactly? No shit, "men" shouldn't be killing or raping. Killing or raping shouldn't be happening at all. But we don't live in a Utopia. Bad things will happen. It is most definitely each and every one of our individual responsibility, regardless of sex, to take care of our own safety. All humans have agency and the tradeoff for agency is responsibility. Take responsibility. Wagging your finger at "all men" is useless to point of absurdity.
I think she worded that badly tbh - I took it that she meant ultimately women should not be held responsible if they have been raped, not that we should run around naked on dark streets at night and expect nothing bad to happen because we have no personal responsibility.
Brilliant, Julie! I’ve seen the young girls when I lived in East London going into cars with several men. They would stand on the street along the road from my window and be picked up one at a time. So young. Noticeably not well fed and had come to the area where the corner shops’ windows were full of cards with phone numbers and they would know they would get ‘work’. Anyone condoning that is sick. Occasionally a police car would go past but it seemed to be an accepted part of the community.
Well done guys👏👏… Love love love Julie Bindell, so articulate and intelligent, hoping she gets into politics, A SAFE PAIR OF HANDS FOR WOMEN AND GIRLS🌟❤️💐
This one definitely counts as an honest conversation with an interesting person 👍 - truely useful to hear JB's perspectives even if I disagree with quite a lot of what she said - healthy exchange of views with the guys - credible pushback - but in good faith Insightful as well as entertaining.
The only issue is, she was neither properly challenged on her position on sex work, nor Is there a will from Trigg to invite someone who is able to counter her claims just as eloquently as she's made hers.
@John Doe Everywhere prostitution was decriminalised you see a rise in human traficking. The demand increases (guys feel less self conscious ab wanting to buy sex + don't fear the law anymore) The offer stays the same (how many people would be willing to get penetrated by 5+ strange men a day for money. Would you?) Because the offer stays the same but the demand explodes, pimps (many now reconverted into brothel owners) take women from other countries and bring them in trough coercion/manipulation/etc etc
My aunt was abused very briefly she ended it quickly by sticking a knife to his throat as he slept. She woke him up and said remember sweetheart you have to sleep eventually, he never laid a hand on her wrongfully again.
A crazy amount of things I disagree with her about however, this is how you legitimise yourself as a rational, interesting, thought-provoking and truly progressive channel. You have people on with all kinds of opinions and you discuss the topic like adults. I feel Konstantin wanted to push back on more things (I could be wrong) but he recognised that this person has been invited to take part in a conversation not a debate. Bravo fellas, great content.
Yes. It's great that they talk to so many different people, not all of who they agree with. But they give them all a fair hearing and a place to say what they need to. I can't say I like Julie Bindel, And I disagree with her in many ways. But she does make some perfectly good points that need bringing up.
Excellent point. These are meant to be conversations not debates. You have to let some stuff (even a lot of stuff) go in order to keep it on the level without people getting triggered. Cos triggered is actually a thing! Even if it's overused now and thrown around as an excuse to not even try to listen.
I agree with most of what she said, and it is ok that she is not interested in privileged women's fights and protests, but to say they aren't important because violence against women is more important, is like saying that the cost of living in Britain or the quality of NHS is not worth fighting for because there are hungry children in Africa.
She doesn’t care about vulnerable women, like anyone supporting the Nordic Model. She pushes for solutions that create more issues than it solves. Plus, she refuses to listen to people directly affected by those “solutions”, pretending she knows better than them.
Everyone does.. Proving you can care about women and also NOT be a bottom of the barrel type of person. You don't get respect for doing the bare minimum lol.
What does this “care” entail then, pretending to know better what the person wants, without asking them? Forcing people to accept “care” they themselves don’t like and punish them if they refuse? Sounds like a bottom barrel totalitarian type of person.
I agree that men shouldn't be raping/murdering. But I disagree that I shouldn't have to be responsible for my own safety. No one will ever care more about my safety than I do. I am responsible. I don't want to rely on anyone but myself. I may get support from people I love and who loves me, but I don't want to relinquish control of something as important as my own safety. Rely on yourself and make good decisions and get some training to help reduce the risks. The sex-work and human trafficking... we should help those women (and young men). That is modern day slavery. Like the Quakers and abolitionists, we should support the journey towards gaining their freedom, so that they can have the freedom to be responsible for their own decisions and safety.
You realise consensual sex work and human trafficking are two different things? Sure human trafficking victims need help. But consensual sex workers don’t want to be “rescued”, simply be treated as people, with the same worker protections and rights?
The help for sex workers should be limited to legal and police protection as well as help them leave the industry in terms of job search and training but only *if* they wish to leave it.
Of course men shouldn't be raping/murdering, no-one should. But would she tell black people they shouldn't join gangs and stab each other? Or tell Muslims that they shouldn't commit terrorism?
This is the kind of feminism I can not only admire but I can get on board with. Working in a Housing Association where I here and talk to woman who suffer violence from men every week, this woman is a breath of fresh air. As for all the faux ‘feminists’ out there….. they leave me cold.
Women like Julie are the reason I still feel comfortable calling myself a feminist despite being exasperated by 90% of what gets passed off as feminism in this day and age.
She actually brought me to tears when she said “we don’t believe that boys are programmed from birth to hate women”. She’s absolutely right and while I’m heterosexual, I’ve always fought against how I was expected by “society” to be. A fine humanist.
That's nonsense It's not true that society expects us to hate woman or that there is that prejudice against us. It's a small minority of radical, woke feminists who think that. Most people (who are all mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters,...) think (luckily) differently. Dry your tears and get back to yourself. The world is not as bad as a small minority wants you to believe.
@@thewatchtower8330 Until you have to enter the government policy created by them. Then you enter a Kafka-esque nightmare that many don’t escape with their lives from.
If she demands that non-biological women have fewer rights than biological females, the same is true of women who circumvent their biology with contraceptive drugs or non-procreative sex, such as lesbians.
The simple answer about the firefighter thing is this: if the firefighting job is open to men and women, expecting her to just deal with a men’s uniform being I’ll-fitting because men’s uniforms are the default, that’s pretty obviously telling her she’s a second class citizen, or at least doesn’t have equal consideration, right? That’s sexism, just in the basic sense of a woman is being treated unequally in that situation, literally because she is not a man and the assumption is that she would be, so too bad.
This was fascinating! The views I held about prostitution have been challenged and changed from this interview. Love what you guys do. Thank you for this dialogue.
They’re not challenged really, I just see the deliberate omissions and misrepresentations that she makes. I really would like to see a sex work activist being invented in the show, that would show them as truly unbiased.
@@joanna9215 Yeah, I'd like to see someone from the other side make a rebuttle and I'm also aware of some of the information she omitted but she still made some points I hadn't thought about before as I have watched plenty sex worker advocates in the past.
I am curious which point she makes about prostitution is the one that changed your perspective? She literally changed nothing of mine so curious to know…
@@joanna9215 Mainly about the legalisation of it. TBH I don't agree with sex work. I don't think women should be subjected to it and I don't feel men should, as Julie says, feel they have a right to sex in any way but I've never wanted to shame anyone and thought legalisation would help make it safer in many ways. However in legalising it it also destigmatises it and would make it more accessible. Considering the percentage of people who use these services in countries where it has been legalised or at least decriminalised (30-40%) to the percentage in countries where it is still illegal (I can't remember if the 11% was for the UK or the US) and the blatant corruption of how 'pimps' could and would find ways to continue being abusive and dangerous I don't feel the argument of safety is strong enough to legalise it in terms of the harm it could do in other ways. Safety is of course a serious issue that I feel should be tackled in other ways than legalisation.
I was in sex work for a few years,made a lot of money,it was fine for me because I chose it,I knew why Im doing it and I was already a grown woman when I started.And I do consider myself a feminist.So it all depends on the person in it.We can't just categorize anything.
I would argue that the most important issue in the sex industry is the people profiting from it. The point about Dennis Hoff is strait on point. The idea that some random guy should be profiteering on women selling sex is disgusting.
Bindel not only believes all women should be "political lesbians" (lesbian by choice, her words), but she is just as confused about the differences between working with labour rights vs slavery. An artist selling art does not become a slave because money is involved. Arguably, anybody who has known an artist has probably also known one that values their art beyond all else. Bindel just hates certain women, she spreads this hate and hides her views about being merely a so-called "political lesbian" so that she can appeal to a broader base.
@@rara9770 No, that's not her narrative. At best, the 'happy hooker' is an extremely rare oddity in a cesspool of misery according to her. In reality, the vast majority of sex workers like what they do most of the time.
@@MrChickennugget360 Well if they don't like working for him - they're adults, they can work for someone else or work for themselves no? It's a free country. If it's going to be a job, there will always be a variety of people making money out of it, men and women, at different levels.
This interview was FANTASTIC!!! I love how composed and anything but condescending she was. I left with a better understanding of true feminism. I really like this woman!! 👏
"We should not be responsible for our safety". I don't think this is a message I shall carry on to my daughters. Feminism has a real problem with female agency.
That's not the context in which you're quoting her...(She was saying that, in the case of violent, predatory and even murderous males, it shouldn't be women who are 'equally' at fault... Like ZEBRAS at a waterhole aren't culpable if LIONS attack them...) I get the point you make, we ALL need to be careful not to compromise ourselves in potentially dubious situations, BUT she was talking about everyday situations... xx SF
You would be well advised to do. I read a book a few years ago, written by an ex SAS soldier, one chapter was advising people to be aware of their surroundings at all times, for instance, he explained that he never texts or even speaks on his mobile when out on the streets, because it could mark yopu down as a target, this an ex SAS guy, and he modifies his behaviour.
@@DavidSmith-fs5qj Good advice. If talking with a phone a person becomes almost blind with respect to intentional observation, they become passive mechanically and operating by instinct and often have no memory of visual record during the conversation. Easy targets.
@@jamessmith1652 These people are totally oblivious to their surroundings, if one of them walked into a lampost, would it be the councils fault, should it have been their responsibility to have an alarm on the lampost, according to Ms Bindels twisted logic, its not the person on the phone who is responsible for their actions.
No it doesn’t. We can only do so much, having physical differences means we cannot defend ourselves the same way men do. Making women responsible for not getting raped or murdered, is what she is saying is not ok. Otherwise you’re just victim-blaming.
Let’s hear some statistics of woman on woman violence in lesbian relationships. Thats a crazy high number apparently. All violence on others is no good. Women today are way more privileged than men compared to when the feminist movement started.
This was such a good conversation to listen to! Despite their differences in views. Kudos to the civility and honest motivations of both hosts and guest!
Join our exclusive TRIGGERnometry community on Locals to hear *Julie* answer extra questions from our fans! triggernometry.locals.com/
Hi
Does it cost anything to join? Sorry to have to be cheap, genuinely love you guys, but unfortunately I'm often very skint and couldn't keep up regular payments. No worries if it does cost though I get plenty from your free to watch content, great stuff guys, thanks for Keeping putting it out there :)
@@helenwhitlock7598 It's free to join but some features are paid only. Have a look - you might enjoy it.
@@triggerpod thank you! I'll give it a look
33 minutes.
I totally agree with her point that some don't want to get their hands dirty so they focus on softer and (potentially) less important issues. This is so true and symptomatic of so many so called activists and campaigners, and severely undermines the push and struggle for real change on important issues.
@Marina E Yes, I see what you mean.
As a retired sex worker (street based), it's not the oldest profession, there had to be at least one prior, cos we needed to be paid! I don't disagree with anything JB has said. It took years of determination and therapy to recover from my "empowering career". Harm reduction charities save women's lives, simple as.
Slavery and work are not the same thing.
Stop confusing them, your arguments only make it easier to prosecute sex workers and enable extra-regulatory abuses, just like all other labour.
Archeologists have found that hairdressers came before prostitution and before them the people who made tools like knives and such.
The one prior is pimp. ( I would note that prostitution surely precedes printed money.)
@@nickcharles1284 Sure, but what relevance does 'printed' add? No matter the form of currency, money is money.
Also, as I think Julie said in the interview, midwifery almost certainly predates prostitution.
Re: money: money is printed or minted currency. I associate 'paid' with money. Trade is trade. As you note it is a minor aside. I would say the oldest profession is agriculture. As it results in a tradable item within the context of an organized community. (Certainly there were parallel professions e.g. pottery). Prior to that 'midwifery' was simple what happened naturally: women helping women give birth and not rewarded with currency. @@as3609
I was 18 when I became a stripper , it went on 7 years . What no one talks about is the Psychological block of leaving the industry, because I’d been told I’d ruined my life and no one could accept me in a normal job/relationship etc I started to believe it after a while at my core . It’s only when your out and your out for a few years you can see the problems .
This happened to me as an ex hooker. It's legal here. Totally sapped my confidence. Couple years in to a normal job and I'm getting it back
@@snoozyq9576 All best, Snoozy. I hope everything keeps coming together for you.
@@snoozyq9576 It always seemed to me that transitioning from a lot of money for a short amount of time investment (sex work) to a normal job where you make drastically less money for far more time and effort is difficult for people to accept as well. Especially if you're getting paid hundreds or even thousands of dollars an hour as a prostitute. But one can't hook forever, and I'm not aware of many hookers who saved up and retired early. They usually spend what they get self-medicating.
@@Genarii Where I live all the hookers are junkies. They are dishing out blowjobs on street corners for like £20 because that's all they're gonna get. Most of them have no teeth and and seriously underweight. Not all sex workers are in the same circumstances. Some might be really attractive, have had a good family life and charge a lot of money and in my opinion then that's their choice. I don't feel sorry for these people. It's the ones who've grown up the hard way (abused, no family, junkie family, trafficked, etc) and ended up with a habit and to feed that habit they will do whatever for a quick fix. It becomes their life and I can't imagine a life much worse.
@@Genarii The idea of working a short amount of time is a myth of the s industry. You end up working the same hours as a regular job shift. Sometimes you make no money. Sometimes you make lots of money. It's not a dependable source of income. It all depends on how many customers come in at any given time while you're on shift and how much money they're willing to drop.
I am 69 and Ms. Bindel is exactly the type of feminist I grew up with-she's just great. Sadly people like her are becoming rare.
I was in a French class back in 2005ish. The teacher asked the predominantly female class who identified as a 'feminist'. Almost no one. She was horrified that women ranging in age, occupation and race didn't want the label of feminist which in her mind was Julie's generation of warriors; not today's clique of whiners.
I do fully agree. 👍
I didn't know her until to this great and honest conversation. A conversation of clear common sense, brutal truth of reality, talking about these deep self betrayal and lies including the ridiculous childish feminist- whining.
She reminds me very much of Alice Schwarzer in Germany.
15 years ago my favorite english teachers in highschool were feminists. They exuded a love for the subject of English and were perfectly happy to talk about feminism but didn't bully anyone with rhetoric into echoing their beliefs back at them.
They gave me a great respect for feminists and a lifelong love of English.
Sadly, my most disliked lecturer in university is an English lecturer who claims she's a feminist but she is of the contemporary kind that can't define what a women is.
Her classes are heart breaking.
I've lost all respect for the modern incarnation of feminism and those that support it.
I've learned that the contemporary form of feminism is a pseudo-feminism that doesn't care about women except for those women that agree with their beliefs. It bullies people to see the world their way and dehumanizes those that don't.
I'm well aware of respectable feminists existing. They're the sort who faced bullets in Iran not too long ago, they show an actual understanding of men's psych and issues and get called terfs for mentioning the biological differences between men and women or arguing against allowing men in women's spaces.
I still respect feminists, just not all of them and know for sure that not all feminists that call themselves feminists are in fact, feminists.
Anyone who wants a good English education are better off downloading textbooks and taking courses on UA-cam.
Much cheaper too.
@@constancemiller3753
That's a shame. I'm a proud second wave feminist.
Yet women put down women who choose putting their family first. Is that liberation ladies?
For anyone trying to sell the idea that prostitution is a wonderful, empowering career choice for women- would you want your daughter to choose that?
I don't want my son to be a soldier and die but its his choice.
What of those who have no academic success and end up in low-paid work? Why should they stay skint just to please feminists? rsvp Bindel should stick to her own crowd- what of gay-guys who are hookers? rsvp
@@martin5504 I really hope you don't have a daughter
@@martin5504 Thats not comparable.
In many countries you are forced to have at least basic military training as a man, in a lot of countires you need to to serve several years in military as a man.
Comparing sex work with by law enforced military service does not compute.
And it is still in nearly all countries, that (only) a man is supposed to serve in war, but not women.
Both cases should be completly free choices made by the individual.
Another case is enforced sex work by women which get kidnapped into other countries or get lurde here by criminal organisations with promises and so forth. Completly different thing and discussion.
No. Hence why I don't date women who do that. They need help, not to be taken advantage of.
“It’s never a mid level dictator. We go straight to hitler” 😂😂😂 well done Bindel
People were lazy during their history class so they only know the one.
That was fucking brilliant!
Hitler IS a mid level dictator!! Feminists don't know much about history.
Stalin was worse, Mao was wayyy worse. There's current day people who are legitimately worse, proof of which is that I cannot tell you who I think they are because the comment would never be seen.
I don't think traumatised damaged people can lead large movements without bias that's asking for trouble. This woman needs less stress not more!
@@DailyCorvid as someone who’s family lost everything when Mao took over in 1949 and had to flee, you’re 110% right. The stubby moustache man was horrible but far from the worst from an honest perspective
@@brutustantheiii8477 Ten years ago this is the point I would have made a funny joke about Hitler still being alive in the body of a current UK politician!
But it just so happens that the current guy isn't white, and so any joke I make will be reconstructed as a Nazi salute and I shall be impaled on the end of it then castrated.
So I shant. Lol. I hope you and your family did manage to recover to a decent standard of life. You're in a better country and situation now I bet!
Making comments on UA-cam where the worst oppression you will see is comment moderation lol.
Thanks
Like her or not , she's giving the smackdown to the lunatic trans anti women mob...
Fair enough.
@Suicide Booth : No, that not correct. I suggest you go back to the eighties to read more on the beginnings. Initially the trans movement did have feminists support but that waned as early as 2000 when the socialist global mob took over feminism and cast out the real feminists like Greer, et al.
[EDIT: Do you realise feminism has two distinct branches ? ]
@Suicide Booth The trans movement is a corporate fiction created to open up new markets for profit and sneakily presented as a human rights campaign. Behind all those fragile 'identities' and corporate branding theres just men and women, boys and girls and a cashed up juggernaut driven by autogynephile men.
@Suicide Booth It always feels like I just touched an electric fence when I hear or read someone saying that females are the blame and responsible for men/males pretending to be female. It truly is a WTH shock. So, females used what power to get a man/male to decide they think they are a female...and then "get" them to act on it? Whenever I see or hear this kind of nonsense (stupidity really), I'm thinking this is a person that holds a deep issue with and against females. You need to go back in your booth, Booth. Although, I will agree with you that today we are at a level of lunacy with the trans movement. But these are men/males that are pretending to be female. So, following your logic, it is men/males that are pulling our fabric to shreds because they are now at the top of "victimhood".
Trans women are women.
"feminism is not about being equal to men. feminism is about liberation of women." - by far the best and most accurate quote ever about this topic. YES YES YES!
Liberation from what?
@@fioafionawright8604 You might be asking that question because your are coming from a place of priviledge.
Many women around the world still seek libration from men and do not have rights to their own bodies, to educate themselves, to have their own finances etc. Don't forget only 47 years ago was a woman allowed to have her OWN BANK account in the UK.
Modern “feminism” and those that go by that moniker certainly aren’t, think a much better and more accurate quote is five comments above this.
@Suicide Booth astounded the comment got so many likes but no one’s explained what feminism is liberating modern women from? besides responsibility.
@@fioafionawright8604
Liberation for nature and responsibility.
You don't have to be married long to notice that if you divide the work load up based on who is good at what, you end up with something like the traditional roles, in most of the cases.
I don't thi kji could every understand the connection between a mother and their baby. And I don't think women will ever understand what it feels like to be the expendable one, and expected to die to save women and children.
Great conversation.
No one, male or female, has a "right" to sex. Sex is a privilege
“Billy Brag, that Dickhead” I’m warming to Julie minute by minute…
Why has no one ever pointed this out before!
One of the few things she said that I actually agreed with. Still a good interview though.
Honestly I've always thought that but the woman bashing stuff was just the cherry on the cake
That made me chuckle too...another luxury commie
What I do admire about JB is that she focuses very much on the women who are far from rich and powerful positions. And she doesn't shy away from difficult issues. She walks the walk. And too few women who call themselves feminists will do that.
On prostitution: brilliant. Thank you. There's a reason we don't want our daughters aspiring to this "profession". Thank you!!!
Your son can though, eh ?
"They've gone to Durham university", I believe is the expression.
I am In this profession and Julie offers a very one sided view on the matter. I hope trigonometry also interviews people from the other end of the spectrum.
Is a woman who demands expensive dates before the bedroom a prostitute? If not why not? Sex has always been transactional. In some countries there are girls who go out when they're feeling frisky and find guys in bars etc that they find attractive and make clear they expect money. Are they sex workers?
Julie and her supporters won’t understand that simple fact. Why the activity that is frowned upon if it’s for pay but it’s completely acceptable when it’s done for nothing?
As a man, this is the kind of feminism my mother brought me up with and still hold to this day. And I'm not embarrassed by it in the slightest.
Feminism is bullshit.
You must not have been paying attention then.
You should be embarrassed, that's gay
@@grapenut6094 Hater lol
Right? Before I knew about more recent feminist agenda, I didn’t know what people would reel at describing oneself as a “feminist”. But still, I thought, one has a right to keep describing oneself with the word, even if others have gone off the deep end somewhat, eh? Now, I’m finally turned off by using the word casually to be associated with blatant narcissists and predators. Not to mention all the issues that HAVE NOT been discussed or objected to by current feminist movements.
Very interesting at the end. When she was talking about coerced sex or rape in relationships. She said, "Ask any woman of a certain age..." I thought she meant OLDER women. But it turned out she meant younger, "women under thirty...." That really gave me chills.
yeah, most teen pregnancies are caused by men 25-35 as well. and young girls are often subject to boys testing boundraries and older mens fantasies. It doest stop when u get older, but you learn to see it coming a mile away.
@@blah914yeah I’ve been traumatized by my first sexual experiences. He wouldn’t tell me what he wanted to try or do, he would just do it. It was so scary.
@@sophiacalon3463 😢 im sorry that happened to you ❤️
There is a show on one of the crime networks called 'Undercover Underage' about a young looking 38 year old woman who has all these aliases as a 15 year old Instagram content creator in order to see how many older men would follow her. Its chilling how many older men are interested in teenage girls. She sets up a sting, and when she gathers enough evidence, hands it over to the police.
@@paulinegallagher7821 Terrifying.
I've listened to Julie Bindel before. I do think she has a a lot of valuable stuff to say. I don't agree with in her 100%, but I can say that about every one. These conversations we need. Same with triggernometry fellas, the contribute valuable counter points.
Yes she has the clout of someone that has done real things at the sharp end rather some wank puffin pontificating on twitter .
Best thing about Julie is you can disagree with her and still have mutual respect.
@@chrispercival9789 yep.what some one is transcends their ideology. This may be hard to fathom for some people.
i would love to have a heated debate with her, because i know she wouldn't shy away from it and blame its heatedness on my male violence traits, but she would argue her points with educated intellect
That is the way it should be I dont agree with anybody 100% so the madness that anybody that dont agree 100% with you is an enemy is just crazy.
I spoke to a friend recently in ireland whos a psychotherapist he told me one of the biggest issue he's seeing with young male clients is both sex and porn addiction. He said it starts with porn addiction then the move onto constant casual hookups and they move on to prostitution because they want what they're seeing on porn sites.
i'm actually a victim of this. took alot of will power to stop
Sex is healthy and it's especially healthy for men. Men were seeing prostitutes LOOOONG before the internet existed.
So many don't take sex addiction seriously but the brain literally makes it's own drugs.
I think the problem is mostly in the eye of the beholder, in this case the psychotherapist.
@@kellharris2491 it's also indicative of a bigger issue: men need sex to be healthy, it's how humans evolved, and men look at porn only because they are not getting the real thing. All the people who have a problem with the existence of porn are just spinning their wheels. Men will never stop being sexually minded.
I like her general, disagreeable attitude a lot. I identify with and respect people like her, people who tell the truth exactly as they see it, and aren't afraid of confrontation. Also, she totally changed my views on prostitution. I suppose that being too libertarian is a thing, lol.
how did she change your views on it?
How so?
Yet women put down women who choose putting their family first. Is that liberation ladies?.
Libertarian is about having the personal liberty to do pretty much whatever as a personal choice, not a moral code that any personal choice is acceptable. You're completely free to ruin yourself as long as you don't affect other people's own personal liberties. How common this concept flies over the heads of people...
I was unmoved by her arguments, "I know better than you, you shouldn't be doing sex work, you should be cleaning a sewer somewhere". She points to problems that exist but doesn't give any solutions.
Excellent discussion! Well done for finding such an interesting and informative guest. Love the polite and persistent pushback from you guys, respectful requests for clarification and the wealth of common ground found during the conversation. Julie is doing important and commendable work for vulnerable women in poverty and abuse, and is grounded in the real world. She gives an account of feminism that is realistic and persuasive - a rare treat!
@@guyincognito8440 subtle enough for you to miss
She does some very important work and very necessary. She's also insufferable and says some dumb stuff.
@@mgkos ???
Hello, great conversation. I'm a female firefighter and wanted to add my piece about the uniform talk. Female firefighters are 30% more likely to get burns than their male colleagues because the uniform doesn't fit properly. That's the main issue for me. Yes, it is a male dominated industry and it will take time to adapt to a rise in women but this is quite a basic thing. There is a lot of misogyny in the fire brigade so focusing on minor stuff (like air conditioning that we do not have in stations anyway) seems so trivial. Love Bindel and all her work and enjoyed the questions from you both. Thank you
This show reminds me of the days we used to sit with my grandmother, mom, and aunts/uncle on the weekends with a pot of coffee and just talk about the world.
🥰
Rape is a hatecrime in my opinion.
There were no female crash test dummies. After much furore they substituted a child model which is not going to have the same weight distribution, size etc as a grown woman. There were no pregnant crash test dummies, again the knowledge gap is killing us.
Things that seem small can run deeper.
Not to mention birth control. I believe the pill for men didnt make it through trials and was cancelled bc the men were experiencing all of the same side effects women have suffered with while on the pill and still do.
there was ONE car company that did. ONE. i dont remember which one, but if im ever buying a car, thats the one im getting.
@@blah914probably volvo, I’d guess
Let me ask you a question: how much extra would you like to pay for an add-on to the standard seatbelt (of course that comes with the car) that allows every individual with any kind of body type, height, and condition (like pregancy) to be equally safe? What would be your budget for such a feature on a brand new car?
Alternatively: if all cars came with such device, how much would your budget for a brand new car shift?
@Icewateronskin .... you're acting as if females as some kind of special species, and not half the population of the earth
Couldn't an ill-fitting uniform hinder your movement in a dangerous way when doing fire-rescue?
Exactly! Fire fighters wear their gear for a reason and if women are less sage because they have ill fiting equipment its not enough to say that its a historically male dominated field. Women are in the field in the present day and why should their employers be off the hook in catering for their basic safety needs.
If the uniforms fit badly on women and its know and still not changed then women aren't being considered, so it's kind of sexist
My thoughts exactly… How dangerous is ill-fitting gear? And how come the gear made for women isn’t available now?
Why are the overwhelming majority of men firefighters?! REALLY? Not that many women are interested. It’s an incredibly physically demanding job. There aren’t that many men who are physically capable of doing it. There’s much fewer women.
True , I think she needs to learn and grow.
She brings a good point. It's the poor and most vulnerable women that should be the focus of feminism.
Please people, wake up! We need more voices of reason like this… I’m not a feminist but just the fact she shit on micro aggressions tells me she’s actually sane, unlike many people on the left these days…
Lol one comment doesn't make someone sane dum-dum.
@@Cbd_7ohm well what did she then say that would indicate insanity? She talked about women who are victims of grape and abuse. Do you think that is insane?
Only people who are privileged want to be victims. Nobody, not a single real person can stand feeling so powerless, so worthless. People have to cope somehow. Accepting what has been done to you is absolutely disheartening but also necessary for healing. Victims deny, mask and cope, until they are loved and cared for and feel it's safe enough to sit in that pain and begin to heal.
My biggest issue is that many of them aren't even victims. They make up slights and want to be victims so they get sympathy and attention from others.
I think we have swung too far from the old days of "shut up and get on with it" to now where everything is a slight and everyone is a potential victim.
Stoicism has been replaced with permanently feeling sorry for oneself.
" Billy Bragg , that dickhead . . . " That got me. I was sold after that.
Thank you for having Julie Bindel on. I knew about her championing of women’s sex-based rights against trans madness, but not her support of working class women, which the third wave is sorely lacking.
L⁷⁷705-H.2
To be fair, social movements always tend to be primarily focused on mid to upper class people, the working class is practically a separate world where you see what actvists talk about, then you look around the shithole where you live and almost none of it applies.
Why do working class women matter more than working class men?
@@azkadeliaray521because they may be face more sexual violence as compare to other classes of women.
As a woman...I'm hoping a male firefighter comes to drag my butt out of a building. Jobs that require a lot of physical strength are going to draw men more than women because they are inherently stronger...this being most of the time, but not all. It makes me angry that they lower the bar for women so they can meet "standards"...but they aren't really the standards. We do ourselves zero favors by allowing women to be "less than" in positions all for the sake of equality and diversity.
That's the whole problem with inclusion. If it was simply a myth that men develop more physical strength, it would be a non issue. But since standards have to be lowered in military service, police and all other physical work that serve the community, it makes inclusion a dangerous thing indeed. There are very physically strong women that would hand my ass to me in a fight any day, but sadly that's not the reality of a big slice of women. A very trained woman and a very trained man trying to lift the same thing will yield different results. And that's my whole protest to all of this as well. We can argue about sports any day of the week, but public servant organizations and armies should find suitable jobs for those who cannot pass the bar. There's always something one can do that doesn't put lives at risk in those occupations. Women are just as cognitively gifted as men are and should use their brains and abilities to use without having to do the exact same jobs all the time.
I literally fantasise about Henry Cavill superman wisking me away and for the feminist zeitgeist, that's a big no no.
@@rodholseth6354 I would recommend the hypothesis put forward by Eric Kaufmann on the Free Speech Nation segment of GB news recently. Here is part of what he said; " Cultural socialism is the idea that public policy should be used to redistribute wealth, power, and self-esteem from privileged to underprivileged groups in society-notably, historically disadvantaged racial and sexual minorities and women. The term “socialism” is used here in the European sense of egalitarianism..." He also said that according to Cultural Socialism, these concerns should trump the free speech rights of people.
@stormybirds Of course I'm not talking about barring women from military service. But the same standards need to be kept for everyone. Men and women.
Exactly, but the stand up comedians didn't challenge her on that point, they barely scraped the surface.
As a gay man, I love Julie Bindel. She stands up for the sensible middle ground. And I get the impression she's lots of fun in her personal life, has good humour and genuine warmth.
Yet women put down women who choose putting their family first. Is that liberation ladies?
LOL, Julie Bindel and middle ground. She is SWERF incarnate.
@@ouwebrood497what’s SWERF?
@@PunkinBeets Sex Work Excluding Radical Feminist
@@nunnunnunyabizzie2345 Denying women sexual autonomy and a job where they can make good money is feminism?
I don't necessarily agree with her on everything but she brought up a lot of fantastic points and I could tell her intentions come from all the injustices she has witnessed and fought against first hand. I wasn't sure if I could call myself a feminist anymore but this excellent interview made me reaffirm that we need to reclaim that term from the rabid activists who have lost the plot.
Feminism is bullshit.
People don't understand the history of feminism. It' has always been very divided with extremes on both sides.
I feel the same! Let’s claim the term feminist back.
The term has been destroyed and redefining completely.
Yes!
So glad for this valuable conversation to bring balance to the Force
❤
Female firefighters is such an unfortunate example because physical strength actually matters in many life-or-death situations. FF equipment is heavy, bulky and cumbersome.
100% agree
Exactly. As a woman, I would be quite comfortable with few to no female firefighters. Women need to be realistic. I don't think there are any true feminists in a burning building or foxhole when shit is going down.
@@vanessac1721 explain women in military all around the world..Fighting war I’m guessing is more dangerous than firefighting
Have you ever seen a female FF?
@HelenaBlack80 yes, and one that speaks out about this crp is Lucy Masoud. She is now a barrister.
1:12:58 why is it only applies to 'male partners'? female partners are also perfectly capable of coercion, manipulation and blackmail and do it freely and willingly to both women and men, but we don't see Julie calling them r**ists now, do we?
"We should not be responsible for our own safety" is an untenable position. We are all responsible for our own safety Men and Women. People absolutely should not be doing horrible things, but there are horrible people out there who do horrible things, and if you put your safety in someone elses hands, then you never truly have it.
Not just foolish. It's a dangerous stance. This is the same tripe Jessica Chastain told her giant audience: don't do self defence because men should just not rape.
Agree completely, women are not children I’m sick of being infantilised
A child like one
It’s weird bc I understand what you’re saying butif you apply that to gang rape in India for eg it doesn’t make any sense. Certain things do have to be eradicated in society & people do deserve to live in a society where basic safety is guaranteed. That’s kinda the whole point of living in a civilised society.
Exactly. The comment I hear way too much is "men have to stop raping woman" .....like men for some reason in general support rape.
I wish that more people I disagreed with were like Julie Bindel. Got a lot of respect for her
I agree there. I'm not fond of her and I disagree with her a lot. But she has my respect.
Why? She was a criminal and a thief. She believes in microaggressions. She complained about feeling women had to be lcked in their homes for their safety and then IMMEDIATELY locked all men in their homes and was happy about it. She's a hypocrite. A criminal. And a Femnazi. Why would you give a shit or give any respect to such a despicable, vile human being?
@@ehnanimoose2092 pfff, you obviously can't look over her past and past opinion. You obviously the woke type that can never forgive and forget. Her points about male abuse, discrimination in criminal law (which has many aspects, she deals with one certain aspect of it), and prostitution are worthy of attention. Whatever there is in her past.
@@richardkovacs2006 I made my comments when I got fed up with her idiocy and left the video. If she said something worthwhile after all her toxic idiocy drove me away, it's too little too late. I gave her a chance. She proudly yipped about her privilege as a woman and started waving her femnazi flag around. Exactly how much drivel and stupidity do you expect me to listen to before it's "ACCEPTABLE" in your wokist locust eyes to write somebody off as not worth listening to?
@@ehnanimoose2092 Why? Because she's one of the few of her ilk who actually has the balls to sit down and have a conversation and share her views with the other side. She may have some out there ideas that a lot of us can't get on board with, but at least she isn't afraid of that disagreement. In a way, by doing this, she has taken the revolutionary step of getting both sides back together for a real, honest discussion. That's so important in turning the tide back to sanity and common sense. You don't have to respect everything a person has said and done to give them credit where credit is due.
What she speaks of hits home to me as someone who found herself in a relationship with a predator. The system protects these men. When I reported rape the social service team reached out to ask him it the kids were safe with me...it's a shameful existence that no one can understand until you see or live it.
Sorry
I dont believe that for a second !
A woman has just to accuse a man of any kind of crime and this man is in deep trouble !
So, sorry, I dont believe that for one bit !
And how come you were in a relationship with a predator ?
Didn't you see ANY red flags when you met this man ?
Or was that the great appeal and attraction you felt towards this man from the start ?
And before you begin bashing on me
My thoughts on any kind of abusive toxic and destructive relationship, is that the one (man or woman) acting that way should rot in hell and in the meantime should be punished end thrown in jail/prison !!!
Women can also be the one who is abusive toxic and destructive in a relationship !!!
And that is just the reality !!!
@@seriously1184 I really recommend that you explore the psychology behind domestic abuse. It is an extremely well documented issue that leaving ones abuser is very difficult. That way you can stop judgimg strangers on the internet without any knowledge into their personal business.
@@Shasha-jo5iv
Oh you mean like battered wife syndrome ?
Or maybe even the Stockholm syndrome ?
Or do you mean the personality disorders (clusters A, B and C) mentioned in the DSM-5 ?
Or maybe you mean ALL the other disorders mentioned in the DSM-V ?
Yeah, unfortunately I know a lot of this matter, because I had to inform myself into this just to be able to navigate through this world full of dysfunctional and very destructive and very toxic people !
So which part of psychology do you mean or are you referring to ?
@@seriously1184 Sorry
I beleive you're a wasted opportunity for crib death.
And that's just the reality !!1
@@Shasha-jo5iv admirable, but you can't talk any sense into men like this. He is absolutely blinded by hatred of women-probably originating from hatred of his mother-and believes any abuse we get is right and proper. Any time we step out of line and talk about our rights or the reality of abuse against women, he will rave and rant and whinge about how we dont actually have it bad _enough._ This is a permanent toddler filled with an adult man's rage... and they project like _we're_ the hyper-emotional ones! LOL anger is an emotion, bucko!
Articulate, witty, informative, loved this. Julie Bindel's giggling was brilliant too!!
She ran from jesse lee peterson😮
One of the most depressing tactics on the woke side is "educate yourself" and "do better". These are flippant, assholish and reactionary responses that shut both sides up. The recipient will rightly feel offended, and the responder thinks their position is unassailable and wont ever hear anything outside of the echo chamber.
And some are in the know and think this is a feature not a flaw.
Agreed, I hate that "educate yourself." You know they mean you will not be properly "educated" until you believe same as them. Chaps my ass!
I had to stop at 17 min in.
- I hate the cherry picking. Most men don't get away with murder with the excuse of depression and some women also get away with leniency that isn't deserved.
- Everyone should be responsible for their own safety, as no one else has more agency. You can't expect there to be no evil people, and you can't expect someone else to be responsible for your safety just because they have the same gender.
- Women who stay in abusive relationships when they can leave are the victims and aren't responsible for the offending, but they did choose not to take the opportunity to get themselves out of that horrible situation.
You made it 17 minutes? You deserve a medal. lol
@@geroldgrimel4811true but if ugot no money you live in a tent under a bridge or stay with abusive partner but its the female who picked the wrong guy to be with yes a cynical view.
Shame. You may have missed out on some common ground you could've had. I've learned to listen more and give up less, especially when it comes to guests of Francis and Konstantin!
"Most men don't get away with murder with the excuse of depression"
Men always (ALWAYS) get away with both rape and murder of women while being excused for it, people going "He's a good man", or "She must have provoked him", or "What was she wearing", or "He was a sad lone wolf". When men insult and harass women it's a "joke" or a "compliment", when men batter women it's "his way of showing love".
The gaslighting that they don't is just pure evil. Please stop lying.
“Excuse me, while you’re talking about FGM and sex slavery: Why don’t feminists advocate for things that matter? Lemme read a whole list of things you didn’t mention real quick.” -presented without a shred or irony.
At that moment I wanted to punch him. I mean for fucks sake
julie bindel is such a smart, interesting woman and it's great hearing her speak. thank you for having her on.
If you want to abolish sex work, abolish the demand. If the demand is there, no amount of prohibition will stop it.
This can be done by discouraging men from viewing women as sex objects.
The genetic need to reproduce is always going to be there. If it wasn't we wouldn't be. You will never get rid of the demand. The problem is the way society has warped our sexuality. We have comodified it. Porn doesn't need adverts. It's seeked out because of our programming. We need to cut the supply off and then the prerequisites of being in a stable relationship will return. No porn and sex workers will force men to step up and find a partner. As humans we like the easy route in most cases. We need to make the easy route through marriage again... Its a very messy situation with the blame laying at the feet of both sexs.
This was sooo hard to process at some points because of the literal insanity that's going around in these circles. I'm really glad I listened though. This should be spread far and wide. I'm so glad that people like her exist and you guys are doing a marvelous job with these interviews. Thank you all🙏🏻
What an excellent idea to have Julie Bindel on! Whether you agree with her and her hard-core manner, she is a woman on a mission who knows her stuff and has so much to say! Thank you!
She's full of shit.
I'd love to have a beer or a cuppa with this lady. Got to take your hat off to people like her who have such conviction. I liked a lot of her points
Very straight talking 👌🏼
Thank you for standing up for us. Once again we are returning to the time when men took away our spaces
Never heard her before, disagreed with a couple of her points, but damn, she’s cool, I wanna buy her a pint, hang out and argue with her 😎.
I even heard she has chilled out on the 'everything is socially constructed' BS and at least she is willing to have a conversation.
I first heard of her when she had a debate with Milo Yan.....whatever his name is about 5 years ago now
She's been a feminist long before most the intersectional feminist college students who get her cancelled have been alive.
Just argue with a brick wall, it has the same ability to make intelligent points.
@Suicide Booth Destroyed? You sound like a complete pillock.
@Suicide Booth milo I'd ridiculous he couldn't destroy anyone.
Paying for intercouse is such strange thing to me. By accident I am disabled, but I can't imagine to have loveless, heartless intercouse with someone, who actually isn't aroused by me and wants my money, but does not want me and I am feeling it the way, that I don't want such partner either. It's lacks something, that I am deeply prefering in compare to ab expensive physical exercise. When it hurts me, I want to give myself to someone I deeply care about.
Work and slavery are not the same thing.
Also, maybe as someone who is disabled in our society you could understand how differently people may think about their own vs others sexuality. Not everyone feels identically, that's just Bindels privilege showing.
Do you know artists who sell work they care about? Do you know artists that sell cheap work. Do you know artists that don't or shouldn't sell their work at all? Same goes with any labour.
Capitalism alienates all of us from our passions.
Bindel hates trans women too, she's also supported Peter Singer who publishes primarily to advocate for the extermination of disabled people like yourself and I.
Bindel mimes being gay as a political choice too. She's even admitted it and advocated others to do the same.
You are lucky because you know what real love and intimacy feel like and how preferable they are to empty, emotionless exchanges. Unfortunately not everybody has experience of that & knows what it feels like, so they content themselves with lifeless substitutes for the real thing.
and if you see the state of most prossies haggered, no teeth due to being drug addled, dirty and old clothes most of the time, disgraceful these punters must be so, so low down..!
@@jesipohl6717 Mimes being gay? You mean she's straight at heart? I would identify her as a lesbian from a mile's distance. Of course impressions may be wrong, but everything in her appearance, way of speech, mannerisms etc. gives this sort of signal.
I can’t get enough of this woman! I love everything that comes out of her mouth- my favorite Trig interview to date!
Such a great interview. Thanks for having Julie on.
Hearing all this from an intelligent feminist woman helps a great Deal with healing my soul from years of female abuse. Thank you Lady!
I'm fascinated by this topic. Never gave it much thought and now I'm on board. Great points and with compassion.
Julie Bindel is one of the sane people in this world.
She's well meaning but wrong. Paying for sex is a way to compensate for differences in desire and risk associated with partnered sex. It goes primarily male to female because females bear -- quite literally! -- the burdens of risks in such sex acts.
Great conversation! Wonderful to listen to 3 intelligent, reasonable, honest people having a discussion about crucial issues. Don't agree with everything Julie says but she's truly amazing ❤ one of my favourite Triggernometry podcasts
Julie Bindel is not honest.
It's not sexism that firefighter suits were made for males. It is sexism to become aware of that problem and not seek to rectify it.
Exactly! I was looking for THIS
Should females be fire fighters? I suppose if they can pass all phycial requirements the same as the male fire fighters that would be fine, but most women are not as physically strong by men. Seems reasonable that most fire fighters are and should be men.
@@brendancoulter5761yep. Just like the actual policing side of the police. It's a meme the amount of arrests policewomen are overpowered by. We should be behind the scenes working with victims and whatnot.
If they can get in without standards being changed then sure.
It's always so refreshing watching these kinds of conversations with different points of view yet being able to sit down and actually talk. No shouting, screaming, interrupting, or crying, just 3 adults discussing different issues with different ways of viewing them. Thanks, Triggernomety!
Loves this so much! Thank you for bringing her on the show.
Julie Bildel, what a fantastic guest. I had never heard of her before, thanks for bringing her on and providing this platform :)
I was a child during the 70s when Sutcliffe was at large. I knew that most of the women were prostitutes, and had had it explained what that was, but as a kid of 10 or 11 my immediate thought was to be abhorred by what he had done, not to judge the women for their life style or choices. Kids don't have prejudice. We learn it from adults.
@@loganblackwood2922They say it is better to remain silent and let people think you a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.
You are a self confessed idiot.
Ask your mummy, a teacher or your carer to define the word 'learn'.
When children are born they know nothing. They have a few instincts, however in their formative years, everything they learn is from the adults around them. Especially their thinking system. Clearly you were brought up by morons and have not been taught a thinking system.
I was a kid in Bradford when the Ripper was murdering women. I was terrified he'd get my mum or my aunts. Those dark winter nights were bleak, cold and sinister.
Kids dont have prejudice ? that has to be the stupidest thing ive ever heard.. trying being DIFFERENT at school, u will see how many prejudice children really have..
@@CreamNall_ They are not born with them. They learn them. Try doing some learning yourself. It will save you from being a big fat moron.
@@CreamNall_the ability for prejudice is a useful thing we're born with and it's meant to protect us and our group, but which we're often shaped to use it wrongly. It's something we need to be aware of, as all our more dangerous instincts, not to tramp down our instincts, but to use them in ways which aren't stupid. We also are born with instincts to make friends with unusual people -- *if* we can recognize when it's safe to do so, because it also can be useful.
A sad moment in my life was when I saw on FB that my former high school sweetheart, was using hookers. He was so corrupt that he was boasting about it to his fellow corporate psycho pals in Houston. I wondered if he was always an evil man? He has two failed marriages behind him so far.
That's why he was using hookers, going straight to reality without the BS.
Lmao, so a man is evil because he doesn't want to get suckered into a third marriage in order to get some poon? You're not entitled to marriage sweety.
@@ArcanumAscentwell, other than using someone else's body to masterbate, I guess there's nothing wrong with it. 😂
maybe loving those two women were not possible because they're disgusting.
@@bigglyguy8429 There is no reality in having to pay for it. lt's just empty. Empty sex and empty life. People are clueless if they think it doesn't affect their mind and soul.
I agree people shouldn't be responsible for their safety in cases they are attacked, but I don't think violence can be simply educated away. As long as violent people are out there, I will be taking safety to my own hands.
The ideal world can't protect against the real world.
That’s like saying we should be able to leave our doors unlocked and not get burgled, where as in truth our best option is to try and keep ourselves as safe as possible.
If you were walking down th falls road , in the dark , wearing an Orange sash on a Marching Day , you'd not only be a fool , youd be a dead one ! Personal resposibility is EXACTLY that ! It's the same situation in ANY walk of life , WHATEVER the context ; wearing a liverpool shirt inEverton , waving a flag , any denomintion , in the middle east etc ETC... Where did common sense reatreat to nowaday's ...
@@mickyvionsellinas6743 how is this moronic crap still a thing in 2022?
But that's thing. Its like telling the robbed that they should have taken precautions and not gone out of the house in the first place. Believe me women do *everything* to keep themselves safe, from pepper sprays, to tasers. Yet somehow we are supposed to vebso safe that we don't step out at all.
Julie shouldn't be labeled as 'hardline' she is just a decent person who fights for the truly oppressed, which are disproportionally women. Grotesque crimes like abortion of female infants, female infanticide, female child and women slavery, little girl and women sex slavery, female acid victims, murder of females, violence and indecent acts against women and girls on pornography which are easily available to all, and which primes male and boys to think of this as a 'how to treat women' manual. thank you Julie. xxxx
These are all crimes. To bring feminism into them assumes that justice is not being served within the current judicial system, i.e. its fundamentally patriarchal and biased against women. Yes, there were a lot of 'Victorian' values sewn up in the courts in days gone by, based on specific roles men and women were supposed to play in society, though that could be equally prejudiced against men if they were seen to be acting outside of their role. We simply don't have this kind of society anymore and pushing women's priorities, which simply means lack of accountability in a lot of cases, over men's is only going to lead to more vitriol in men, which will invariably lead to more violence against women. We need to treat people as people, that's the only way we can get anywhere near a just society.
Some of those are crimes that exist outside UK. I think in UK men and women have their own issues at a more balanced measure than the way depicted above. Men are at higher risk of homicide (73% male) and suicide (approx 75%) as two examples.
@R K men are the biggest victims of violent crime, but also the majority perpetrators. Women have more self harm attempts men are more 'successfully the self harm endeavour. There is nothing wrong advocating/tailoring solution or bespoke programs for males and ones for female victims of crime or self harm. Men should feel free to set up support groups to help men and boys and women should be able to do so for women and girls.
"who fights for the truly oppressed, which are disproportionally women."
Total bollocks. Men are overwhelmingly the victims of violence and murder. Almost every single example you give is totally wrong. Girls were being aborted because boys were legally required to pay for their parents retirement when they get older effectively making them slaves to their parents. Girls had no such responsibility. If I had to choose between being aborted or enslaved, I choose to be murdered before birth in a heartbeat.
@@zootsoot2006 "more violence against women" and there you go forgetting about men, in your own defence of men.
It will lead to more violence period. As society falls apart, all violence will go up.
"We should not be responsible for our own safety. Men should not be killing. Men should not be raping." Who is this for exactly? No shit, "men" shouldn't be killing or raping. Killing or raping shouldn't be happening at all. But we don't live in a Utopia. Bad things will happen. It is most definitely each and every one of our individual responsibility, regardless of sex, to take care of our own safety. All humans have agency and the tradeoff for agency is responsibility. Take responsibility. Wagging your finger at "all men" is useless to point of absurdity.
I think she worded that badly tbh - I took it that she meant ultimately women should not be held responsible if they have been raped, not that we should run around naked on dark streets at night and expect nothing bad to happen because we have no personal responsibility.
Really fascinating and how refreshing to see an honest debate and open exchange of views. This is exactly why I love Triggernometry.
Brilliant, Julie! I’ve seen the young girls when I lived in East London going into cars with several men. They would stand on the street along the road from my window and be picked up one at a time. So young. Noticeably not well fed and had come to the area where the corner shops’ windows were full of cards with phone numbers and they would know they would get ‘work’. Anyone condoning that is sick. Occasionally a police car would go past but it seemed to be an accepted part of the community.
Well done guys👏👏… Love love love Julie Bindell, so articulate and intelligent, hoping she gets into politics, A SAFE PAIR OF HANDS FOR WOMEN AND GIRLS🌟❤️💐
This one definitely counts as an honest conversation with an interesting person 👍
- truely useful to hear JB's perspectives even if I disagree with quite a lot of what she said
- healthy exchange of views with the guys - credible pushback - but in good faith
Insightful as well as entertaining.
The only issue is, she was neither properly challenged on her position on sex work, nor Is there a will from Trigg to invite someone who is able to counter her claims just as eloquently as she's made hers.
@John Doe Everywhere prostitution was decriminalised you see a rise in human traficking.
The demand increases (guys feel less self conscious ab wanting to buy sex + don't fear the law anymore)
The offer stays the same (how many people would be willing to get penetrated by 5+ strange men a day for money. Would you?)
Because the offer stays the same but the demand explodes, pimps (many now reconverted into brothel owners) take women from other countries and bring them in trough coercion/manipulation/etc etc
My aunt was abused very briefly she ended it quickly by sticking a knife to his throat as he slept. She woke him up and said remember sweetheart you have to sleep eventually, he never laid a hand on her wrongfully again.
Wow.
My mother said the exact same thing, I never forgot it. Never took crap from anyone, man or woman.
Snap, good for her, and glad that worked! Sounds savage
Good for her
Prostitution is not a job choice. It is not the oldest profession, but rather the oldest oppression.
What an absolutely fascinating discussion. Loved the mature discourse where viewpoints differed. This is how a society moves forward. Love it.
A crazy amount of things I disagree with her about however, this is how you legitimise yourself as a rational, interesting, thought-provoking and truly progressive channel. You have people on with all kinds of opinions and you discuss the topic like adults. I feel Konstantin wanted to push back on more things (I could be wrong) but he recognised that this person has been invited to take part in a conversation not a debate. Bravo fellas, great content.
Yes. It's great that they talk to so many different people, not all of who they agree with. But they give them all a fair hearing and a place to say what they need to.
I can't say I like Julie Bindel, And I disagree with her in many ways. But she does make some perfectly good points that need bringing up.
Excellent point. These are meant to be conversations not debates. You have to let some stuff (even a lot of stuff) go in order to keep it on the level without people getting triggered. Cos triggered is actually a thing! Even if it's overused now and thrown around as an excuse to not even try to listen.
You mean like Joe Rogan? Don't worry people will seek to cancel them shortly
The point is we listened. I don't listen to screeching threats delivered by purple haired maniacs.
She certainly loves accusing men of being entitled
I agree with most of what she said, and it is ok that she is not interested in privileged women's fights and protests, but to say they aren't important because violence against women is more important, is like saying that the cost of living in Britain or the quality of NHS is not worth fighting for because there are hungry children in Africa.
Thanks for doing this boys, love Bindel. Don’t always agree with her but she truly cares about vulnerable women, and has always put in the hard work.
She doesn’t care about vulnerable women, like anyone supporting the Nordic Model. She pushes for solutions that create more issues than it solves. Plus, she refuses to listen to people directly affected by those “solutions”, pretending she knows better than them.
Everyone does.. Proving you can care about women and also NOT be a bottom of the barrel type of person.
You don't get respect for doing the bare minimum lol.
What does this “care” entail then, pretending to know better what the person wants, without asking them? Forcing people to accept “care” they themselves don’t like and punish them if they refuse?
Sounds like a bottom barrel totalitarian type of person.
Nah she just seems to blame men and take away reasonability from women.
@@joanna9215 fascinating 🍿
I agree that men shouldn't be raping/murdering. But I disagree that I shouldn't have to be responsible for my own safety. No one will ever care more about my safety than I do. I am responsible. I don't want to rely on anyone but myself. I may get support from people I love and who loves me, but I don't want to relinquish control of something as important as my own safety. Rely on yourself and make good decisions and get some training to help reduce the risks.
The sex-work and human trafficking... we should help those women (and young men). That is modern day slavery. Like the Quakers and abolitionists, we should support the journey towards gaining their freedom, so that they can have the freedom to be responsible for their own decisions and safety.
You realise consensual sex work and human trafficking are two different things? Sure human trafficking victims need help. But consensual sex workers don’t want to be “rescued”, simply be treated as people, with the same worker protections and rights?
The help for sex workers should be limited to legal and police protection as well as help them leave the industry in terms of job search and training but only *if* they wish to leave it.
Of course men shouldn't be raping/murdering, no-one should.
But would she tell black people they shouldn't join gangs and stab each other?
Or tell Muslims that they shouldn't commit terrorism?
@@Torquemadia of course not. It’s only ok to yell at Caucasian males in liberal fairy world
@@Torquemadia rapists are rapists, some are men, some are women. Saying men shouldn't rape is disgraceful and demonising.
This is the kind of feminism I can not only admire but I can get on board with.
Working in a Housing Association where I here and talk to woman who suffer violence from men every week, this woman is a breath of fresh air.
As for all the faux ‘feminists’ out there….. they leave me cold.
Women like Julie are the reason I still feel comfortable calling myself a feminist despite being exasperated by 90% of what gets passed off as feminism in this day and age.
Wow, she's just changed my mind on a few things, and raised question marks over a few others 😊 many thanks again gyz
She actually brought me to tears when she said “we don’t believe that boys are programmed from birth to hate women”. She’s absolutely right and while I’m heterosexual, I’ve always fought against how I was expected by “society” to be. A fine humanist.
That's nonsense It's not true that society expects us to hate woman or that there is that prejudice against us. It's a small minority of radical, woke feminists who think that. Most people (who are all mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters,...) think (luckily) differently.
Dry your tears and get back to yourself. The world is not as bad as a small minority wants you to believe.
@@thewatchtower8330 Until you have to enter the government policy created by them. Then you enter a Kafka-esque nightmare that many don’t escape with their lives from.
It is scary that her awful statement is considered a positive one.
What society were you raised in that expected you to hate women?
@@siggyincr7447 Well it wasn’t a fairytale land. You must be brand new. No man of a certain age would ever make a comment like that.
I don't agree with everything she has to say, but I do think she is probably the most reasonable feminist I've ever heard. So props to her
34:55 "It's never a midrange dictator." I LOVE that!
Such a positive exchange. Julie's shoes are the bomb. Her ideas are uplifting, and the Trig lads remain alright by me. Keep on!
Agree about the shoes!
Not all her ideas are uplifting, though.
Her idea's are kind of lunatic and hateful though. She pretty clearly has a deep hatred of men.
@@jamesespinosa690 She has a deep hatred of men who rape and kill women.
If she demands that non-biological women have fewer rights than biological females, the same is true of women who circumvent their biology with contraceptive drugs or non-procreative sex, such as lesbians.
The simple answer about the firefighter thing is this: if the firefighting job is open to men and women, expecting her to just deal with a men’s uniform being I’ll-fitting because men’s uniforms are the default, that’s pretty obviously telling her she’s a second class citizen, or at least doesn’t have equal consideration, right? That’s sexism, just in the basic sense of a woman is being treated unequally in that situation, literally because she is not a man and the assumption is that she would be, so too bad.
"Billy Bragg, that dickhead" the quote of 2022 right there hahahaha
She is wonderful, thanks for having her on. Really enjoyed this discussion.
spot on Julie about rape, it's all about power not sex
Great conversation. I appreciated the pushback. Not too much, and carried out politely. Well done!
This was fascinating! The views I held about prostitution have been challenged and changed from this interview. Love what you guys do. Thank you for this dialogue.
They’re not challenged really, I just see the deliberate omissions and misrepresentations that she makes. I really would like to see a sex work activist being invented in the show, that would show them as truly unbiased.
@@joanna9215 Yeah, I'd like to see someone from the other side make a rebuttle and I'm also aware of some of the information she omitted but she still made some points I hadn't thought about before as I have watched plenty sex worker advocates in the past.
I am curious which point she makes about prostitution is the one that changed your perspective? She literally changed nothing of mine so curious to know…
@@joanna9215 Being available for men 24/4 to be paid to get raped is not work
@@joanna9215 Mainly about the legalisation of it. TBH I don't agree with sex work. I don't think women should be subjected to it and I don't feel men should, as Julie says, feel they have a right to sex in any way but I've never wanted to shame anyone and thought legalisation would help make it safer in many ways. However in legalising it it also destigmatises it and would make it more accessible. Considering the percentage of people who use these services in countries where it has been legalised or at least decriminalised (30-40%) to the percentage in countries where it is still illegal (I can't remember if the 11% was for the UK or the US) and the blatant corruption of how 'pimps' could and would find ways to continue being abusive and dangerous I don't feel the argument of safety is strong enough to legalise it in terms of the harm it could do in other ways. Safety is of course a serious issue that I feel should be tackled in other ways than legalisation.
Thank you! This is your best guest ever! I must seek out Julie Bindel's books!
I was in sex work for a few years,made a lot of money,it was fine for me because I chose it,I knew why Im doing it and I was already a grown woman when I started.And I do consider myself a feminist.So it all depends on the person in it.We can't just categorize anything.
Well, that's what Julie said.
I would argue that the most important issue in the sex industry is the people profiting from it. The point about Dennis Hoff is strait on point. The idea that some random guy should be profiteering on women selling sex is disgusting.
Bindel not only believes all women should be "political lesbians" (lesbian by choice, her words), but she is just as confused about the differences between working with labour rights vs slavery.
An artist selling art does not become a slave because money is involved. Arguably, anybody who has known an artist has probably also known one that values their art beyond all else.
Bindel just hates certain women, she spreads this hate and hides her views about being merely a so-called "political lesbian" so that she can appeal to a broader base.
@@rara9770 No, that's not her narrative. At best, the 'happy hooker' is an extremely rare oddity in a cesspool of misery according to her.
In reality, the vast majority of sex workers like what they do most of the time.
@@MrChickennugget360 Well if they don't like working for him - they're adults, they can work for someone else or work for themselves no? It's a free country. If it's going to be a job, there will always be a variety of people making money out of it, men and women, at different levels.
Thank you for this interview. So much that needed to be said, said so we’ll!
Julie is always great to listen to.
This interview was FANTASTIC!!! I love how composed and anything but condescending she was. I left with a better understanding of true feminism. I really like this woman!! 👏
👍
like she says the "modern progressive" feminists are not feminists.
"We should not be responsible for our safety". I don't think this is a message I shall carry on to my daughters. Feminism has a real problem with female agency.
That's not the context in which you're quoting her...(She was saying that, in the case of violent, predatory and even murderous males, it shouldn't be women who are 'equally' at fault... Like ZEBRAS at a waterhole aren't culpable if LIONS attack them...) I get the point you make, we ALL need to be careful not to compromise ourselves in potentially dubious situations, BUT she was talking about everyday situations... xx SF
You would be well advised to do. I read a book a few years ago, written by an ex SAS soldier, one chapter was advising people to be aware of their surroundings at all times, for instance, he explained that he never texts or even speaks on his mobile when out on the streets, because it could mark yopu down as a target, this an ex SAS guy, and he modifies his behaviour.
@@DavidSmith-fs5qj Good advice. If talking with a phone a person becomes almost blind with respect to intentional observation, they become passive mechanically and operating by instinct and often have no memory of visual record during the conversation. Easy targets.
@@jamessmith1652 These people are totally oblivious to their surroundings, if one of them walked into a lampost, would it be the councils fault, should it have been their responsibility to have an alarm on the lampost, according to Ms Bindels twisted logic, its not the person on the phone who is responsible for their actions.
No it doesn’t. We can only do so much, having physical differences means we cannot defend ourselves the same way men do. Making women responsible for not getting raped or murdered, is what she is saying is not ok. Otherwise you’re just victim-blaming.
Let’s hear some statistics of woman on woman violence in lesbian relationships. Thats a crazy high number apparently. All violence on others is no good.
Women today are way more privileged than men compared to when the feminist movement started.
She made them genuinely laugh, especially Francis his laugh really came out at one point.
This lady is so intelligent. The more I listen to her the more I like what she has to say.
Yet women put down women who choose putting their family first. Is that liberation ladies?
Why do women kill there children far more then men , and fathers not to see there children ,,,, lets bang on about that ,,, Australia ,,,
Very charming woman
Brilliant interview. Thank you for having these kinds of conversations.
This was such a good conversation to listen to! Despite their differences in views.
Kudos to the civility and honest motivations of both hosts and guest!
The struggle is real when it comes to freezing at work though.