The first story is a woman doing an awful thing which turns out being 100% justified by the fact that her husband and mother-in-law are awful people. Like, dude, you're wife is "in labour" and you wait 30 MINUTES to call her and inform her that her mother-in-law "had a heart attack". Jail, infinite jail for this man!
I don't think the guy did anything wrong in that specific part. This is an insanely high pressure scenario I'm surprised he didn't have an actual heart attack.
I don't know if you can judge a man for not perfectly considering the time table when they think their mom is dying. Like mom? insane person like unhinged. I probably wouldn't date a guy with a mom like that because I don't have the psychology degrees to untangle that but the guy had two women in his life actively trying to emotionally manipulate him.
What do you mean he wasn't in the same room when happened did she call did she text him why did he just know through long distance mind reading he was probably talking to his mom if he got the text you acting in a vacuum people in "perfect" circumstances not where hes working and was eventually on his later in the day
@@jadegrace1312he is in the wrong tho, he decided to call his mom instead of immediately going to the hospital to see his wife. The first thing to do is going to your wife to comfort her, THEN, when you are at the hospital with your wife, THEN you call your mom
Men without kids trying to convince themselves that a woman is wrong for testing a theory that her husband will likely not be there for their child’s birth. She is giving herself validation and being like “ok this isn’t the hormones, this isn’t coincidence, I now have proof for all parties involved that you will take any opportunity to steal the father of my child from his predisposed responsibility” I don’t even think I can say that what she did was wrong, if anything the husband saying “the bigger emergency” is indicative of his lack of knowledge on pregnancy, which is insanely dangerous especially if the mother has outside stressors. Drop your mom off at the hospital, you aren’t a doctor and aren’t needed, and go be with your pregnant wife. Wife was right, husband is stupid, mother in law is actually Disney villain stepmother
I'd still hold OP as a dick just cause it is crazy manipulative. But...if my wife did that for the same reason, or even for a dumb reason like wanting to get me out of work on a "false alarm" to see a movie, I'd not even be mad. It's a weird space where if your relationship is healthy it's kind of a fair test, but if it's toxic then you're torching bridges.
I'm not sure why in the world you'd even try to save a relationship where you feel the need to test whether your spouse will be with you WHEN YOU'RE GIVING BIRTH. If you've gotten to that point, the relationship is already cooked.
The first story is actually like something straight out of a shitty revenge manga, except instead of cutting off right before the degenerate MC’s comeuppance she has to deal with the consequences plus getting flamed on Reddit. Joseph was spot on when he said they’re all like comic book characters, every person mentioned needs to have infinite therapy.
As someone with BPD: that first woman is both my hero and the real-world manifestation of vindictive fantasies I have to constantly remind myself not to act on. She was wrong to do what she did, but holy shit, you will NEVER catch my ass blaming her for it. I just don’t have it in me.
It's one of those ridiculous trick shots that, even if you merc'd an orphan with it, it's so ridiculously impressive it's hard to not give them credit. Life in prison for sure, but you'd still be awestruck.
No, mbt is wrong about the first one. The relationship wasn't damaged after she did the test l, it was before. She already didn't trust him, and by the time you're loyalty/trust testing, it's over before you've actually pulled the trigger. She's in the wrong probably, but of the 3 parties present, she's definitely the least in the wrong.
First story: I'd argue that the relationship is actually in a much better spot than if she hadn't done the test, Joseph is just straight up wrong. If she hadn't done the test, this exact thing would have played out WHEN SHE WAS ACTUALLY GIVING BIRTH. That would be 1000x worse. Joseph's argument that this only makes the relationship worse is wrong. This would have happened either way because of the vile mother in law, the difference is that now the father might not miss the actual birth of their child, and the wife does have more leverage to ask him to keep his mother out of it. Even if you think the woman is an asshole, the relationship is objectively in a better spot than it would be had she not done the test. That spot still may be very bad, but that's unavoidable due to the mother-in-law. This situation is just objectively better than if she hadn't done it and her MIL had faked a heart attack 3 days later.
literally i was yelling this in my brain the whole time. it sucks to lie but could you imagine the trauma of actually going through childbirth and dealing with that sort of deep betrayal at the same time??? there's just no good solution here- she already tried to talk to him about it and got brushed off!!
"First story: I'd argue that the relationship is actually in a much better spot than if she hadn't done the test" is it really? because for me it looks like the lady decided to have a baby with someone she does not entirely trust after YEARS of examples of unwanted behavior and in the end uses the baby itself as a bargaining chip for their attention this is a recipe for a broken family and I feel like no one, including the woman, actually considers the feelings of the child that will be brought into the world in either a strained or entirely broken relationship, which I'd say is objectively the worst situation because it fks over an entirely innocent person in the process of the spouse/in-law power struggle
@@nikodemossowski4621 I believe OP is saying that in both situations it's still true that "the lady decided to have a baby with someone she does not entirely trust after YEARS of examples of unwanted behavior" and the family is no less broken if this happens on the day of the actual birth. So doing this lets them have this fallout before the actual birth happens and she has concrete proof of whats going to happen on the day if she doesnt make other plans.
I gotta agree. She pulled a desperate move in what counts as a survival scenario. Was it crappy? Yeah. But if you're trapped with a bomb you either gotta fail to defuse it or let it blow up. Definitely we hold her accountable for it being a sick move (and I think she knows that), but also I think she can be forgiven for it, since now she's equipped to 100% plan around it.
So the thing you need to get is that the goal of doing a galaxy brain all according to keikaku is not to fix things. It's just demonstrating a point on the way out. So the premise is already not actually is she an asshole, it's is she a morally justified asshole.
The first one feels very much like the lady attempted the classic "A baby will fix the relationship" ploy. She knew who her husband was and I would not be surprised if she thought having a child would make him pay more attention to her instead of his mother.
I've sadly seen it before. My sister was in a relationship with a really really shitty boyfriend who was emotionally abusive, controlling, manipulative, a cheater, etc. They decided to have a kid together a few years into the relationship. The result? He would start becoming a better person and then regress as a manipulative tactic. The cheating didn't stop, the abuse didn't stop, and finally she had enough and kicked him to the curb. Moral of the story, kids don't fix relationships. Shitty people will always be shitty people
I cant believe how insanely wrong they are about the first story, the husband is clearly a huge momma's boy and it was obvious from the first sentence that those 2 cant be trusted and that the wife is right not to trust them, it's too bad that she now has his child and didnt divorce him way sooner
In the first one they mentioned how when his wife was giving birth he had enough time to call his mom but then waits an hour to call her back and tell her that he’s not able to be there and she should call her friend to get her, like she calls the husband and then he ghosts her for an hour before calling and telling her about the “heart attack” she even called him again after 30 mins (and his work is 10 mins away from their home), like even if the “heart attack” was real you couldn’t take like even one minute when you’re like stopped at a red light when driving your mom to the hospital to call or even text your wife about you not being there
No the third one was absolutely grounds to break up. Genuinely like imagine if the sexes were reversed I know none of you would say they should stay together if the guy was stealthing or some shit.
Unfortunately for the first woman I think the answer was not get pregnant by a man who’s mother has been constantly butting in on your relationship in the first place
Joseph argues the fake birth is bad mostly because he sees the result as bad "either way," so let's turn some dials. If she did this test and the husband failed AND came back and said "You're right, I didn't take your concerns seriously enough, I would've failed to be there for you when you needed me and I'll do better," then everything is better than if she didn't do the test. She still gets to be epic and based for calling the shot, he knows to not even call his mom and not abandon his wife for her no matter what, and we got to learn all of this at a time when she isn't actively giving birth. The only difference between this version and the false dichotomy Joseph sees is the HUSBAND'S BEHAVIOR. Joseph wants you to believe that the wife's actions were bad based on the husband's decision to double down on being the asshole.
Well, Joseph's argument is that there was not a scenario in which the husband would ever have admitted any wrongdoing on the part of him or his mother, given what this woman knew about him. I think this is something that's very easy to say both in hindsight and also as a person looking in from the outside, but that's the reasoning.
you are working on a "I told the bully that being mean is lame and then he plagiarized and everybody clapped" level here. Emotionally manipulating your husband will not break him out of enmeshment. If she wanted to do that she could have set up a test for the mother instead of her husband.
Alright, I gotta say, the first woman is like. A sicko evil genius Lex Luthor type but. The guy's mother is like the General Zod in this situation so you gotta believe I'm on Team Luthor. It was a horrible thing to do but it's so funny and the mother-in-law is worse.
the first story feels like such an easy solution, this woman was clearly pushed to the absolute brink by this dude, she did this stupid test because she had already lost all trust in him. the result of the test doesn’t matter, the trust was already gone.
The first woman did something bad, but i don't believe doing something bad makes you an asshole automatically. Given the circumstances the husband has been neglecting his wife needs and his Mom crazy antics for a long time. He says a marriage is built on trust and he is correct, but as i see it he is the one that has lost the trust of his partner by doing nothing about the huge problem his Mom represents. In this particular incident i think the mother and the wife are equally "bad", but given the context i see the woman's actions as a desperate response to the situation she is in and in that sense she is not the asshole :)
Yeah I gotta give her the survival scenario clearance on this. Like, if your wife in in that madness and she does a trust test, personally I'd forgive my wife in a heartbeat. She NEEDS to know if she should plan around her husband or if it's the hormones. If we can forgive cannibalism when you're stranded on an island or mountain, we can forgive this woman dealing with a RL Disney villain.
Important context that was missing in the first scenario not copied over from the original post: OPs mother *died in childbirth*, which should add an extra layer of allowances on top of what shes already entitled to simply for being 9 months pregnant. Edit: you guys also completely neglect the fact that OPs husband starts of essentially gaslighting them about his mother's behaviour, he's not exactly a victim in terms of manipulation. Edit 2: MBT keeps talking about the fallout of what OP did, what do you suppose the fallout of this happening when she was actually giving birth would be!?
The first story really suffers due to the wording being "am I the asshole", as opposed to "am I an asshole" everyone sucked also god forbid women do anything
I've never been pregnant, but my understanding is that a person is swimming in hormones that cloud their mind. I'd get why it might lead to a crazy test like that.
There is no way Joseph isn't just playing devils advocate for the content for the first one. If he is actually being sincere, he is the stupidest person ever.
Joseph is a little cynical of how the husband should react in the first post. If the husband came, and found out she had been pushed to the point where she would legitimately fake giving birth to test his loyalty, rather than get hurt or defensive and retaliate with "why couldn't you just trust me?" he should realize the severity to which his emotionally codependent mother has impacted his relationship with ostensibly the most important person in his life. I quite emphatically disagree with this being a bad move because a good relationship should survive and grow from this, regardless of the indelible fact that she was SO GODDAMN RIGHT. The husband is the asshole and is emotionally cheating with his own mother, I cannot be swayed in my disdain for Oedipus here.
Yeah, and that can only be further justified by a simple question: Would Peeps or Joe forgive their wives for a stunt like that? Personally, I'd forgive mine without needing to think about it. Sometimes a trust exercise is warranted, if for nothing else than for comfort. But this lady had years of justified paranoia built up. The fact she was able to call the shot with a bulls-eye is more than a reddit gotcha, it's a "Dear god, someone save her"
26:27 I find myself agreeing with both of you. I feel bad for the husband for being manipulated for sure, and what she did was wrong. On the flip side, she *cant* trust him and he proved it. It is not a one off. They have to go to therapy and have a gigantic action plan to work out their problems if they want to stay together imo.
I don't think the first woman was completely in the wrong. like joseph said those relationships test are not a healthy sign of a relationship. There are few things what were bothering me: -She was a few days away from delivering so you can't completely fault her not being in her clearest mind at the moment hormone wise and stress wise. -The husband called the mother on the way towards his wife while his full attention should have been on getting towards here quickly and safely as possible. also if the possibility was that your mother is so faint of heart that news like this can give her a heart attack maybe don't call her during the proces and call her after giving birth. - What the husband should have done after his mother got a heart attack was call his wife as quickly as possible and explain the entire situation to her and not an hour later.
Yeah just by merit of hormones and (justified) paranoia, we can give OP 1 the Survival Pass with her test. Still remind her how garbage a move it was, but also drop an entire piano on the husband's head because SHE WAS RIGHT. And even if she wasn't, he needs to take that as a wake up call she felt she had to do that! She's got a list of excuses, this loser failed the easiest test possible.
The relationship was not fine in the scenario where she never does this. The only difference between this scenario and the one where she trusts her husband is that the mother-in-law gets to fake a heart attack during this woman's REAL birth instead. The least bad choice would have been to discount the husband in the first place and just have the friend be her default, but even in that scenario, this tension point would have remained for the entire rest of their lives together for as long as the mother-in-law was alive and probably beyond.
Ok but the woman in the first one is 9 months pregnant, has probably been becoming more anxious about this as the months have counted down, and was just proven correct about a terrible situation the husband could have avoided. This is after enough time where he would not snap out of how manipulative his relationship with his mother was. I think if she actually giving birth, and he wasn't there, that would have killed all trust in the relationship at the worst possible time.
Wait, why is it "results oriented thinking" to say the first individual is not an asshole because they were correct, but not "results oriented thinking" when the aftermath of the decision is negative because the husband doesn't realize he was wrong.
there is no world in which he was going to go "you know what you're right my mother is a bitch and i should have let her die if she really was dying and you are instantly forgiven for manipulating me like this instead of having an actual conversation"
I believe because for the 2nd one there's no good outcome, where the first was just about her being correct or not. Asking for a hit in Blackjack when youre at 20 is generally wrong even if you get an ace, but asking for a hit when you're at 21 is always wrong
okay here's the thing with the first story. i don't think the woman actually put the relationship in a worse position. she says that she's tried to talk to the husband about it before, which just ends in fighting. he's unwilling to acknowledge that there is a problem. what she does is drastic and manipulative, but it also highlights the breaches of trust that are happening in the relationship. in a perfect world, both parties would see there is an issue and work to fix it. but i'd argue that, when someone refuses to acknowledge the issue, underscoring it (even comically so) is sometimes necessary for the other party to realize that it is there. another thing is that this is a timed event. if the woman's goal is to address the issue before she actually gives birth, then i can easily see how a more reasonable approach (which, again, she has tried) might seem like it won't be enough.
Nonono, he SHOULD dump the girl that wanted to get pregnant, as they said, it's a TERRIBLE thing to have happened, and it is baby trapping, the thing she said was just an excuse, a justification for the moment
Yeah no. You don't get mixed messages then start going to the MAXIMUM CONSEQUENCE path. You go for the path of least consequence. Like, even the fact she was doing it while he was out of the room. It's just a list of red flags.
Clearly the first woman was PUSHED to this dude, this wasn't her first options, this wasn't the one she wanted, her in law has been doing this shit for YEARS, it was do or die. She clearly wasn't happy there anyways regardless of how much they talked about it
I completely disagree with MBTs conclusion on the first story. She herself said there were already arguments over the issue. He should know his mother's behavior is degrading his relationship with his wife. It's been happening for a while. I do not think she is in the wrong for just pulling the trigger on a test instead of trusting him to not tell her and just getting ignored again on the day of the real birth. Is it really mean, yeah, but that's not the same thing as immoral. Nobody deserves for people to never be mean to them. He's out of line already, and she doesn't have anything but desperate moves left with her friend not wanting to go in his place. She may not have improved the relationship, but judging her on that implies the relationship is improvable or that that is the only point of faking the birth. She probably needs a divorce, and I don't think it's wrong for her to try something else first. All she did was give him another chance, and maybe get some evidence to get her friend to help her out in the obvious case that he failed that chance, which he did. MBT said it himself, she already knew he would flake on her over his mom. The relationship was over before the trust test. She was just going through the motions of an already collapsing relationship and convincing herself of something she already knew; she needs to go.
the fact that there were arguments and consistent pattern of bad behavior and she still decided to have a baby makes it f--ked up and I feel like everyone's missing it this is like a woman deciding to have a baby with an abuser or an alcohol/drug dependent person hoping "it's gonna change him", turning the kid into a bargaining chip towards someone's better nature, which has much more dire consequences on failure (for the entirely innocent person in all of this, the child) than this entire little "test" had that's how broken homes and broken people come to be
@@nikodemossowski4621 Yo a pregnancy lasts 9-10 months depending on how you'd like to count it. She probably wasn't thinking the relationship was gonna break down that bad nearly a year beforehand when she actually got pregnant, and the pregnancy may have exasperated the issue from a minor problem into the end of the relationship. Please learn anything about babies before you speak on them again.
MBT acting like the relationship is salvageable in the first one is so cringe. she's already doubting her husband. like you can't expect her to just talk it out cause she already can't rely on him for anything. You can't expect the relationship to stick together if the wife has to wait (or feels like she has to wait) for her mother in law to die to get her husband. she is in the right because she needed concrete evidence for herself.
As someone who's a family member has an awful mother in law. Legitimately it would be great if she can just divorce her husband due to that, it will stick to your marriage and in turn the rest of the family until the day that in law dies
I don't think the first woman is wrong in the slightest. If the mother in law really has a fake emergency at every single important event, then it was perfectly logical to assume that the test would have its expected result. It was not an unreasonable test to make. Her doubts were perfectly reasonable, AND they were vindicated
@@hatster401 have the person you are meant to be able to rely on the most bail on you every time for years and then dismiss your concerns, and then say that.
@@hatster401 The only reason why these sorts of tests are wrong is when they are unreasonable and prove nothing. Like pomegranate girl from the first episode, who wanted to test whether certain partners were gentle or not by how they would open a pomegranate. In this scenario, our heroine had perfectly reasonable doubts, backed up by a pattern of behavior. The husband cannot undermine the wife's trust at every single turn for being unreliable, and then feel hurt when the wife feels she can't trust him, not even taking into accound that she was right.
@@MomirViggwilv he can, because he was lied to. He was manipulated on both sides by people he cares about. He has every right to be angry. You could say that after a while, he should have wisend up to his mothers antics, and i wont disagree, however when its something a serious as a heart attack, then you cant ignore that. And again, he is clearly angry at the mother, but what makes it worse is that the wife also lied. The results dont matter. That fact is is that he was cuaght between a rock and a hard place and he made a decision to go to his potentially dying mother, and i cant blame him for that
So the second guy if he were cool, had the opportunity to make it a funny bit where he bought or made his own bottle of that champegne and just casually threw that instead for the trip. You rile her a little while giving little hints that its not her bottle, and open the thing in front of her while being jovial about it. Of course, this bit falls apart due to two reasons 1) In this circumstance, she's not feeling 100% so the tell that its a joke needs to be obvious enough and will fall flat almost regardless. "Haha, I got you silly billy. Wasn't I a little devilish goblin?" "Ow my head, you really got me going." 2) Getting mad in any way, shape, or form just ruins it all. You gotta be ready to take some punishment for it.
Idk about that first one, i do believe that she was an a-hole but I 100% believe the mother is worse but what i cant get around is thinking the husband is an a-hole also. Now, i do think that he definitely should've listened to his wife when she brought up her original concerns about his mother cause in a way it did lead to her decision, however, i can't fault the guy for calling his mother when he thought his wife was in labor, i mean i can imagine myself doing the same as i made my way to the hospital to meet my wife. And once the conversation started i also cant really blame him for taking her seriously when she claimed to have a heart attack, i mean, you cant really ignore that. Right? I dont know if it was stated and i missed it but what was his reaction to his mothers deception, his reaction would be my defining factor if hes wrong in this scenario.
Damn Joseph is so wrong on the first story "theres only two outcomes" is just utter bull. The pregnant woman has pregnancy brain and a reasonable adult would realise that even if she tried to get them and give it a pass
While it was a 2-1 and all the comments go with Danny and Jordan, I gotta go with Joseph on this one. While Yes the husband did get manipulated by his mom to not be there for the "birth", but he's reasoning was really sound thay yeah heart attacks are worst especially if there no one else who can help out his mom, he knew that the friend could help in his absence. And he probably if both were real would have felt terrible for miss the birth but now his has his kid and his mother He's obviously been manipulated by his mom and wife (bc you dont do this shit once 9 times out if 10) for years and is a man of emotion, he was filled with joy that his wife was having his baby and called is mom in the way there, but then his mom had the "hear attack" here this man needs to pick between saving his mom's life or missing his child's birth and lose the trust if his wife. His mom is the better choice both logically and emotionally. He acted out of joy and excitement and the fear and panic (which were probably going on when he first called). Even if he did go to his wife imagine explaining that "yeah baby my mom's having a heart attack but I'm here" even with both sides being fake you now know that he dose care and now his mother hate you more and pulls worst shit to manipulate him. And if his mom was right and dies you have to live with that Tldr: the wife is the asshole and the man is a guy prone to acting on emotion who get manipulationed by his mom, and this case wife That's my hot take the man is the victim here, there was no right move given what the man knew
Im sorry, but I have to stand with women and say the first one was more in the right than she was wrong (even if, to be clear, that was pretty fucked up). Like the husband clearly values one over the other, even if he doesnt want to admit it. Also Jesus, I hope that last guy ended the relationship because thats basically the gender-swapped equivalent to taking off the condom while your partner doesnt notice, holy fuck. How do you see a guy pull out and go "well, he's sending mixed messages"?
That first one is a difficult one. I ended up agreeing with Joseph for different reasons than him. Yes I can see why she did it and do find it a realistic conclusion a person can come to, and, really do feel for her but it did nothing to help the situation. People make the guy out to be a deadbeat / awful person but based of this 'test' what was the mistake he made? -Deciding to call his mom. Why did he do that? -Because he was (reasonably speaking) probably excited and happy for the occasion. This was the choice that ended up mattering. I can not fault a guy for making an innocuous decision. Yes it wasn't the most 'logical' choice but it is relatively understandable for a person who is close enough to their mother to, perhaps, be hasty enough to call their mother, especially if he's just gets on the call *while* getting to the wife. He could have been ringing his mother while walking to the car. The test would have backfired (even more) on the wife if this decision hadn't taken place. I do not think neither the wife or husband are necessarily bad people (wife is pretty obviously not but with the husband there's not enough information and it would be unreasonable to infer) but the mother is clearly hampering their relationship. She's clearly over stepping her bounds and butting in with her perspective where it's unneeded and the wife is feeling the blunt of it. I don't think the husband is being manipulated by the mother really, just that he's not seeing the need to distance her a tiny bit and focus on his wife. If he decided to not be as open to the mother the relationship would be miles better. What makes this worse is that the husband and wife come off as pretty awful to one another no matter how they look at it.
Ok but what if it was a heart attack? Would she still yell at him and feel betrayed. Like yes the mom manipulative but she probably an old woman who knows if she has a bad heart
There's a reason "Boy who cried wolf" is a common tale. Because when you call false emergencies often, there are consequences when there's a real emergency. If we believe OP (and I do), they passed the "Oh they just want attention" phase.
every time i watch this show i'll come up with a take and then like 2 minutes later joseph will just express the same opinion. for example with todays episode, about 2/3 of the way into the discussion of the first post i was coming to the conclusion that OP is an asshole doing something with no good outcomes that could probably be the foundation for ending a relationship (with a baby due imminently) and then joseph said it like a minute later Is it over for me?
Firstly: Love your pfp and name combo. Hilarious. Second: You're valid for your take. I feel like most people will side with OP either cause she got the trickshot OR give her the Survival Mode pass. Heck, I give her the pass. But opting to hold her accountable to her garbage move is completely fair to do, and dare I say, based as well.
The first story is a woman doing an awful thing which turns out being 100% justified by the fact that her husband and mother-in-law are awful people.
Like, dude, you're wife is "in labour" and you wait 30 MINUTES to call her and inform her that her mother-in-law "had a heart attack". Jail, infinite jail for this man!
Everyone is terrible!
I don't think the guy did anything wrong in that specific part. This is an insanely high pressure scenario I'm surprised he didn't have an actual heart attack.
I don't know if you can judge a man for not perfectly considering the time table when they think their mom is dying.
Like mom? insane person like unhinged. I probably wouldn't date a guy with a mom like that because I don't have the psychology degrees to untangle that but the guy had two women in his life actively trying to emotionally manipulate him.
What do you mean he wasn't in the same room when happened did she call did she text him why did he just know through long distance mind reading he was probably talking to his mom if he got the text you acting in a vacuum people in "perfect" circumstances not where hes working and was eventually on his later in the day
@@jadegrace1312he is in the wrong tho, he decided to call his mom instead of immediately going to the hospital to see his wife. The first thing to do is going to your wife to comfort her, THEN, when you are at the hospital with your wife, THEN you call your mom
We're lunchable guys, of course we can't have children
Men without kids trying to convince themselves that a woman is wrong for testing a theory that her husband will likely not be there for their child’s birth. She is giving herself validation and being like “ok this isn’t the hormones, this isn’t coincidence, I now have proof for all parties involved that you will take any opportunity to steal the father of my child from his predisposed responsibility” I don’t even think I can say that what she did was wrong, if anything the husband saying “the bigger emergency” is indicative of his lack of knowledge on pregnancy, which is insanely dangerous especially if the mother has outside stressors. Drop your mom off at the hospital, you aren’t a doctor and aren’t needed, and go be with your pregnant wife. Wife was right, husband is stupid, mother in law is actually Disney villain stepmother
I'd still hold OP as a dick just cause it is crazy manipulative. But...if my wife did that for the same reason, or even for a dumb reason like wanting to get me out of work on a "false alarm" to see a movie, I'd not even be mad. It's a weird space where if your relationship is healthy it's kind of a fair test, but if it's toxic then you're torching bridges.
I'm not sure why in the world you'd even try to save a relationship where you feel the need to test whether your spouse will be with you WHEN YOU'RE GIVING BIRTH. If you've gotten to that point, the relationship is already cooked.
Damn what a monstrous mother in law for the first one. That situation would be grounds for a divorce if I'm being honest.
The first story is actually like something straight out of a shitty revenge manga, except instead of cutting off right before the degenerate MC’s comeuppance she has to deal with the consequences plus getting flamed on Reddit. Joseph was spot on when he said they’re all like comic book characters, every person mentioned needs to have infinite therapy.
As someone with BPD: that first woman is both my hero and the real-world manifestation of vindictive fantasies I have to constantly remind myself not to act on. She was wrong to do what she did, but holy shit, you will NEVER catch my ass blaming her for it. I just don’t have it in me.
It's one of those ridiculous trick shots that, even if you merc'd an orphan with it, it's so ridiculously impressive it's hard to not give them credit. Life in prison for sure, but you'd still be awestruck.
Coming back to this episode after the coverage of Lunchly is so funny
I'm with the first woman!
The risk was calculated, but goddamn she's good at math.
No, mbt is wrong about the first one. The relationship wasn't damaged after she did the test l, it was before. She already didn't trust him, and by the time you're loyalty/trust testing, it's over before you've actually pulled the trigger. She's in the wrong probably, but of the 3 parties present, she's definitely the least in the wrong.
to be fair to mbt, he did also say he thinks the woman is the least in the wrong of the 3 of them
A classic "Everyone here sucks" if ever there was one
i need to see the tearlament list from the guy in the third story
First story: I'd argue that the relationship is actually in a much better spot than if she hadn't done the test, Joseph is just straight up wrong. If she hadn't done the test, this exact thing would have played out WHEN SHE WAS ACTUALLY GIVING BIRTH. That would be 1000x worse. Joseph's argument that this only makes the relationship worse is wrong. This would have happened either way because of the vile mother in law, the difference is that now the father might not miss the actual birth of their child, and the wife does have more leverage to ask him to keep his mother out of it.
Even if you think the woman is an asshole, the relationship is objectively in a better spot than it would be had she not done the test. That spot still may be very bad, but that's unavoidable due to the mother-in-law. This situation is just objectively better than if she hadn't done it and her MIL had faked a heart attack 3 days later.
literally i was yelling this in my brain the whole time. it sucks to lie but could you imagine the trauma of actually going through childbirth and dealing with that sort of deep betrayal at the same time??? there's just no good solution here- she already tried to talk to him about it and got brushed off!!
"First story: I'd argue that the relationship is actually in a much better spot than if she hadn't done the test"
is it really? because for me it looks like the lady decided to have a baby with someone she does not entirely trust after YEARS of examples of unwanted behavior and in the end uses the baby itself as a bargaining chip for their attention
this is a recipe for a broken family and I feel like no one, including the woman, actually considers the feelings of the child that will be brought into the world in either a strained or entirely broken relationship, which I'd say is objectively the worst situation because it fks over an entirely innocent person in the process of the spouse/in-law power struggle
@@nikodemossowski4621 I believe OP is saying that in both situations it's still true that "the lady decided to have a baby with someone she does not entirely trust after YEARS of examples of unwanted behavior" and the family is no less broken if this happens on the day of the actual birth. So doing this lets them have this fallout before the actual birth happens and she has concrete proof of whats going to happen on the day if she doesnt make other plans.
I gotta agree. She pulled a desperate move in what counts as a survival scenario. Was it crappy? Yeah. But if you're trapped with a bomb you either gotta fail to defuse it or let it blow up. Definitely we hold her accountable for it being a sick move (and I think she knows that), but also I think she can be forgiven for it, since now she's equipped to 100% plan around it.
As always, danny is the most normal and more importantly CORRECT person on this show
Honestly an adult lunchable is just a charcuterie board 😂😂
When Im in a disrespect youtube veiwers competition and my opponent it Will of the Councel
"Do you all get hard playing Balatro ever?"
Is the sky blue, Joseph?
Feels like someone should teach Jordan the definition of empathy, seems like he means sympathy every time.
So the thing you need to get is that the goal of doing a galaxy brain all according to keikaku is not to fix things. It's just demonstrating a point on the way out. So the premise is already not actually is she an asshole, it's is she a morally justified asshole.
Real Agnes and Seymour Skinner energy from story number 1
The first one feels very much like the lady attempted the classic "A baby will fix the relationship" ploy. She knew who her husband was and I would not be surprised if she thought having a child would make him pay more attention to her instead of his mother.
I've sadly seen it before. My sister was in a relationship with a really really shitty boyfriend who was emotionally abusive, controlling, manipulative, a cheater, etc. They decided to have a kid together a few years into the relationship. The result? He would start becoming a better person and then regress as a manipulative tactic. The cheating didn't stop, the abuse didn't stop, and finally she had enough and kicked him to the curb. Moral of the story, kids don't fix relationships. Shitty people will always be shitty people
I cant believe how insanely wrong they are about the first story, the husband is clearly a huge momma's boy and it was obvious from the first sentence that those 2 cant be trusted and that the wife is right not to trust them, it's too bad that she now has his child and didnt divorce him way sooner
In the first one they mentioned how when his wife was giving birth he had enough time to call his mom but then waits an hour to call her back and tell her that he’s not able to be there and she should call her friend to get her, like she calls the husband and then he ghosts her for an hour before calling and telling her about the “heart attack” she even called him again after 30 mins (and his work is 10 mins away from their home), like even if the “heart attack” was real you couldn’t take like even one minute when you’re like stopped at a red light when driving your mom to the hospital to call or even text your wife about you not being there
No the third one was absolutely grounds to break up. Genuinely like imagine if the sexes were reversed I know none of you would say they should stay together if the guy was stealthing or some shit.
Unfortunately for the first woman I think the answer was not get pregnant by a man who’s mother has been constantly butting in on your relationship in the first place
"I can always buy you another bottle"
Yeah that means you also could have bought another fucking bottle for the trip dude. smDh
I 100% side with that first woman, she had that SOUL READ
The first story is extremely "Everyone Sucks Here"
me 🤝 jordan
eating the family's entire container of oyster crackers
Joseph argues the fake birth is bad mostly because he sees the result as bad "either way," so let's turn some dials.
If she did this test and the husband failed AND came back and said "You're right, I didn't take your concerns seriously enough, I would've failed to be there for you when you needed me and I'll do better," then everything is better than if she didn't do the test. She still gets to be epic and based for calling the shot, he knows to not even call his mom and not abandon his wife for her no matter what, and we got to learn all of this at a time when she isn't actively giving birth.
The only difference between this version and the false dichotomy Joseph sees is the HUSBAND'S BEHAVIOR. Joseph wants you to believe that the wife's actions were bad based on the husband's decision to double down on being the asshole.
Well, Joseph's argument is that there was not a scenario in which the husband would ever have admitted any wrongdoing on the part of him or his mother, given what this woman knew about him. I think this is something that's very easy to say both in hindsight and also as a person looking in from the outside, but that's the reasoning.
you are working on a "I told the bully that being mean is lame and then he plagiarized and everybody clapped" level here.
Emotionally manipulating your husband will not break him out of enmeshment. If she wanted to do that she could have set up a test for the mother instead of her husband.
Alright, I gotta say, the first woman is like. A sicko evil genius Lex Luthor type but. The guy's mother is like the General Zod in this situation so you gotta believe I'm on Team Luthor. It was a horrible thing to do but it's so funny and the mother-in-law is worse.
the first story feels like such an easy solution, this woman was clearly pushed to the absolute brink by this dude, she did this stupid test because she had already lost all trust in him. the result of the test doesn’t matter, the trust was already gone.
The first woman did something bad, but i don't believe doing something bad makes you an asshole automatically.
Given the circumstances the husband has been neglecting his wife needs and his Mom crazy antics for a long time. He says a marriage is built on trust and he is correct, but as i see it he is the one that has lost the trust of his partner by doing nothing about the huge problem his Mom represents.
In this particular incident i think the mother and the wife are equally "bad", but given the context i see the woman's actions as a desperate response to the situation she is in and in that sense she is not the asshole :)
Yeah I gotta give her the survival scenario clearance on this. Like, if your wife in in that madness and she does a trust test, personally I'd forgive my wife in a heartbeat. She NEEDS to know if she should plan around her husband or if it's the hormones. If we can forgive cannibalism when you're stranded on an island or mountain, we can forgive this woman dealing with a RL Disney villain.
Important context that was missing in the first scenario not copied over from the original post: OPs mother *died in childbirth*, which should add an extra layer of allowances on top of what shes already entitled to simply for being 9 months pregnant.
Edit: you guys also completely neglect the fact that OPs husband starts of essentially gaslighting them about his mother's behaviour, he's not exactly a victim in terms of manipulation.
Edit 2: MBT keeps talking about the fallout of what OP did, what do you suppose the fallout of this happening when she was actually giving birth would be!?
The first story really suffers due to the wording being "am I the asshole", as opposed to "am I an asshole"
everyone sucked
also god forbid women do anything
I've never been pregnant, but my understanding is that a person is swimming in hormones that cloud their mind. I'd get why it might lead to a crazy test like that.
There is no way Joseph isn't just playing devils advocate for the content for the first one. If he is actually being sincere, he is the stupidest person ever.
Have you seen Joe on stream? Both of those options can be true lol
Can’t believe MBT found condoms that could surpass Metal Gear
Joseph is a little cynical of how the husband should react in the first post. If the husband came, and found out she had been pushed to the point where she would legitimately fake giving birth to test his loyalty, rather than get hurt or defensive and retaliate with "why couldn't you just trust me?" he should realize the severity to which his emotionally codependent mother has impacted his relationship with ostensibly the most important person in his life. I quite emphatically disagree with this being a bad move because a good relationship should survive and grow from this, regardless of the indelible fact that she was SO GODDAMN RIGHT. The husband is the asshole and is emotionally cheating with his own mother, I cannot be swayed in my disdain for Oedipus here.
Yeah, and that can only be further justified by a simple question: Would Peeps or Joe forgive their wives for a stunt like that?
Personally, I'd forgive mine without needing to think about it. Sometimes a trust exercise is warranted, if for nothing else than for comfort.
But this lady had years of justified paranoia built up. The fact she was able to call the shot with a bulls-eye is more than a reddit gotcha, it's a "Dear god, someone save her"
26:27 I find myself agreeing with both of you. I feel bad for the husband for being manipulated for sure, and what she did was wrong.
On the flip side, she *cant* trust him and he proved it. It is not a one off.
They have to go to therapy and have a gigantic action plan to work out their problems if they want to stay together imo.
When y'all first used condoms they were still called sheepskins lol
Lunchables uploaded
I really hope that 3rd guy is subbed to Danny, cause you can't be gambling like that without being a Danny sub
I don't think the first woman was completely in the wrong. like joseph said those relationships test are not a healthy sign of a relationship. There are few things what were bothering me:
-She was a few days away from delivering so you can't completely fault her not being in her clearest mind at the moment hormone wise and stress wise.
-The husband called the mother on the way towards his wife while his full attention should have been on getting towards here quickly and safely as possible. also if the possibility was that your mother is so faint of heart that news like this can give her a heart attack maybe don't call her during the proces and call her after giving birth.
- What the husband should have done after his mother got a heart attack was call his wife as quickly as possible and explain the entire situation to her and not an hour later.
Yeah just by merit of hormones and (justified) paranoia, we can give OP 1 the Survival Pass with her test. Still remind her how garbage a move it was, but also drop an entire piano on the husband's head because SHE WAS RIGHT. And even if she wasn't, he needs to take that as a wake up call she felt she had to do that! She's got a list of excuses, this loser failed the easiest test possible.
Rather than test your partner, Joseph would rather you leave your partner, lol. That's not how you strengthen relationships 😂
The relationship was not fine in the scenario where she never does this. The only difference between this scenario and the one where she trusts her husband is that the mother-in-law gets to fake a heart attack during this woman's REAL birth instead.
The least bad choice would have been to discount the husband in the first place and just have the friend be her default, but even in that scenario, this tension point would have remained for the entire rest of their lives together for as long as the mother-in-law was alive and probably beyond.
Ok but the woman in the first one is 9 months pregnant, has probably been becoming more anxious about this as the months have counted down, and was just proven correct about a terrible situation the husband could have avoided. This is after enough time where he would not snap out of how manipulative his relationship with his mother was.
I think if she actually giving birth, and he wasn't there, that would have killed all trust in the relationship at the worst possible time.
1. Correct
2. Correct
3. Correct
Bottle Night mentioned: 4 episodes (one on patreon)
see ya next time :)
Reddit really is incubator of sitcom plots.
Wait, why is it "results oriented thinking" to say the first individual is not an asshole because they were correct, but not "results oriented thinking" when the aftermath of the decision is negative because the husband doesn't realize he was wrong.
there is no world in which he was going to go "you know what you're right my mother is a bitch and i should have let her die if she really was dying and you are instantly forgiven for manipulating me like this instead of having an actual conversation"
I believe because for the 2nd one there's no good outcome, where the first was just about her being correct or not. Asking for a hit in Blackjack when youre at 20 is generally wrong even if you get an ace, but asking for a hit when you're at 21 is always wrong
okay here's the thing with the first story. i don't think the woman actually put the relationship in a worse position.
she says that she's tried to talk to the husband about it before, which just ends in fighting. he's unwilling to acknowledge that there is a problem. what she does is drastic and manipulative, but it also highlights the breaches of trust that are happening in the relationship. in a perfect world, both parties would see there is an issue and work to fix it. but i'd argue that, when someone refuses to acknowledge the issue, underscoring it (even comically so) is sometimes necessary for the other party to realize that it is there.
another thing is that this is a timed event. if the woman's goal is to address the issue before she actually gives birth, then i can easily see how a more reasonable approach (which, again, she has tried) might seem like it won't be enough.
Nonono, he SHOULD dump the girl that wanted to get pregnant, as they said, it's a TERRIBLE thing to have happened, and it is baby trapping, the thing she said was just an excuse, a justification for the moment
Yeah no. You don't get mixed messages then start going to the MAXIMUM CONSEQUENCE path. You go for the path of least consequence. Like, even the fact she was doing it while he was out of the room. It's just a list of red flags.
Just got done watching this on the patreon! XD
Watch it again
@@skyhorizon6860 and then a third time
@@ashikjaman1940 and then a fourth time
Guess the third lady got caught with her hand in the cookie jar so to speak
dawg you GOTTA get more normies into this with a banger guest episode
Clearly the first woman was PUSHED to this dude, this wasn't her first options, this wasn't the one she wanted, her in law has been doing this shit for YEARS, it was do or die. She clearly wasn't happy there anyways regardless of how much they talked about it
First woman is terrible for doing that. HOWEVER everyone around her is worse so I can't really say she's in the wrong here.
9:24 if luncables help trans kids… does that make them WOKE?!
The answer for the first one is to break up with them, don't get married to a person whose mother is like THAT
Week 15 without a George Santos guest appearance
I was a kids cuisine kinda person
Poor jillian
I completely disagree with MBTs conclusion on the first story. She herself said there were already arguments over the issue. He should know his mother's behavior is degrading his relationship with his wife. It's been happening for a while. I do not think she is in the wrong for just pulling the trigger on a test instead of trusting him to not tell her and just getting ignored again on the day of the real birth. Is it really mean, yeah, but that's not the same thing as immoral. Nobody deserves for people to never be mean to them. He's out of line already, and she doesn't have anything but desperate moves left with her friend not wanting to go in his place. She may not have improved the relationship, but judging her on that implies the relationship is improvable or that that is the only point of faking the birth. She probably needs a divorce, and I don't think it's wrong for her to try something else first. All she did was give him another chance, and maybe get some evidence to get her friend to help her out in the obvious case that he failed that chance, which he did. MBT said it himself, she already knew he would flake on her over his mom. The relationship was over before the trust test. She was just going through the motions of an already collapsing relationship and convincing herself of something she already knew; she needs to go.
the fact that there were arguments and consistent pattern of bad behavior and she still decided to have a baby makes it f--ked up and I feel like everyone's missing it
this is like a woman deciding to have a baby with an abuser or an alcohol/drug dependent person hoping "it's gonna change him", turning the kid into a bargaining chip towards someone's better nature, which has much more dire consequences on failure (for the entirely innocent person in all of this, the child) than this entire little "test" had
that's how broken homes and broken people come to be
@@nikodemossowski4621 Yo a pregnancy lasts 9-10 months depending on how you'd like to count it. She probably wasn't thinking the relationship was gonna break down that bad nearly a year beforehand when she actually got pregnant, and the pregnancy may have exasperated the issue from a minor problem into the end of the relationship. Please learn anything about babies before you speak on them again.
MBT acting like the relationship is salvageable in the first one is so cringe. she's already doubting her husband. like you can't expect her to just talk it out cause she already can't rely on him for anything. You can't expect the relationship to stick together if the wife has to wait (or feels like she has to wait) for her mother in law to die to get her husband.
she is in the right because she needed concrete evidence for herself.
1:03:02 Yeah it'd be pretty bad if he pulled out and he was the one who got pregnant
As someone who's a family member has an awful mother in law. Legitimately it would be great if she can just divorce her husband due to that, it will stick to your marriage and in turn the rest of the family until the day that in law dies
I don't think the first woman is wrong in the slightest. If the mother in law really has a fake emergency at every single important event, then it was perfectly logical to assume that the test would have its expected result. It was not an unreasonable test to make.
Her doubts were perfectly reasonable, AND they were vindicated
YOU CANNOT LIE TO SOMEBODY YOU LOVE ABOUT THE BIRTH OF THEIR CHILD JUST BECAUSE IT MAKES YOU FEEL CORRECT
@@hatster401 have the person you are meant to be able to rely on the most bail on you every time for years and then dismiss your concerns, and then say that.
@@hatster401 The only reason why these sorts of tests are wrong is when they are unreasonable and prove nothing. Like pomegranate girl from the first episode, who wanted to test whether certain partners were gentle or not by how they would open a pomegranate.
In this scenario, our heroine had perfectly reasonable doubts, backed up by a pattern of behavior. The husband cannot undermine the wife's trust at every single turn for being unreliable, and then feel hurt when the wife feels she can't trust him, not even taking into accound that she was right.
@@MomirViggwilv he can, because he was lied to. He was manipulated on both sides by people he cares about. He has every right to be angry. You could say that after a while, he should have wisend up to his mothers antics, and i wont disagree, however when its something a serious as a heart attack, then you cant ignore that. And again, he is clearly angry at the mother, but what makes it worse is that the wife also lied. The results dont matter. That fact is is that he was cuaght between a rock and a hard place and he made a decision to go to his potentially dying mother, and i cant blame him for that
So the second guy if he were cool, had the opportunity to make it a funny bit where he bought or made his own bottle of that champegne and just casually threw that instead for the trip. You rile her a little while giving little hints that its not her bottle, and open the thing in front of her while being jovial about it.
Of course, this bit falls apart due to two reasons
1) In this circumstance, she's not feeling 100% so the tell that its a joke needs to be obvious enough and will fall flat almost regardless. "Haha, I got you silly billy. Wasn't I a little devilish goblin?" "Ow my head, you really got me going."
2) Getting mad in any way, shape, or form just ruins it all. You gotta be ready to take some punishment for it.
will of the councel members if hitler was a woman in an awful situation: well what she did was objectively bad BUT
Are lunchables an American thing? Never heard of them in Australia. 😂
Kind of like munchables
@@Alekaidyou know, makes sense 😂
Idk about that first one, i do believe that she was an a-hole but I 100% believe the mother is worse but what i cant get around is thinking the husband is an a-hole also.
Now, i do think that he definitely should've listened to his wife when she brought up her original concerns about his mother cause in a way it did lead to her decision, however, i can't fault the guy for calling his mother when he thought his wife was in labor, i mean i can imagine myself doing the same as i made my way to the hospital to meet my wife. And once the conversation started i also cant really blame him for taking her seriously when she claimed to have a heart attack, i mean, you cant really ignore that. Right?
I dont know if it was stated and i missed it but what was his reaction to his mothers deception, his reaction would be my defining factor if hes wrong in this scenario.
Damn Joseph is so wrong on the first story "theres only two outcomes" is just utter bull. The pregnant woman has pregnancy brain and a reasonable adult would realise that even if she tried to get them and give it a pass
Bottlw night cluld not save them
Please, just use ESH (everyone sucks here) in future. Because really, that's the case for scenario 1.
Yeah but that's a boring cop out answer
While it was a 2-1 and all the comments go with Danny and Jordan, I gotta go with Joseph on this one. While Yes the husband did get manipulated by his mom to not be there for the "birth", but he's reasoning was really sound thay yeah heart attacks are worst especially if there no one else who can help out his mom, he knew that the friend could help in his absence. And he probably if both were real would have felt terrible for miss the birth but now his has his kid and his mother
He's obviously been manipulated by his mom and wife (bc you dont do this shit once 9 times out if 10) for years and is a man of emotion, he was filled with joy that his wife was having his baby and called is mom in the way there, but then his mom had the "hear attack" here this man needs to pick between saving his mom's life or missing his child's birth and lose the trust if his wife. His mom is the better choice both logically and emotionally. He acted out of joy and excitement and the fear and panic (which were probably going on when he first called).
Even if he did go to his wife imagine explaining that "yeah baby my mom's having a heart attack but I'm here" even with both sides being fake you now know that he dose care and now his mother hate you more and pulls worst shit to manipulate him. And if his mom was right and dies you have to live with that
Tldr: the wife is the asshole and the man is a guy prone to acting on emotion who get manipulationed by his mom, and this case wife
That's my hot take the man is the victim here, there was no right move given what the man knew
Im sorry, but I have to stand with women and say the first one was more in the right than she was wrong (even if, to be clear, that was pretty fucked up). Like the husband clearly values one over the other, even if he doesnt want to admit it.
Also Jesus, I hope that last guy ended the relationship because thats basically the gender-swapped equivalent to taking off the condom while your partner doesnt notice, holy fuck. How do you see a guy pull out and go "well, he's sending mixed messages"?
That first one is a difficult one. I ended up agreeing with Joseph for different reasons than him.
Yes I can see why she did it and do find it a realistic conclusion a person can come to, and, really do feel for her but it did nothing to help the situation.
People make the guy out to be a deadbeat / awful person but based of this 'test' what was the mistake he made?
-Deciding to call his mom.
Why did he do that?
-Because he was (reasonably speaking) probably excited and happy for the occasion.
This was the choice that ended up mattering. I can not fault a guy for making an innocuous decision. Yes it wasn't the most 'logical' choice but it is relatively understandable for a person who is close enough to their mother to, perhaps, be hasty enough to call their mother, especially if he's just gets on the call *while* getting to the wife. He could have been ringing his mother while walking to the car. The test would have backfired (even more) on the wife if this decision hadn't taken place.
I do not think neither the wife or husband are necessarily bad people (wife is pretty obviously not but with the husband there's not enough information and it would be unreasonable to infer) but the mother is clearly hampering their relationship. She's clearly over stepping her bounds and butting in with her perspective where it's unneeded and the wife is feeling the blunt of it. I don't think the husband is being manipulated by the mother really, just that he's not seeing the need to distance her a tiny bit and focus on his wife. If he decided to not be as open to the mother the relationship would be miles better. What makes this worse is that the husband and wife come off as pretty awful to one another no matter how they look at it.
> I don't think the husband is being manipulated by the mother really
she literally lied to make him abandon his wife during labour, Oedipus
Ok but what if it was a heart attack? Would she still yell at him and feel betrayed. Like yes the mom manipulative but she probably an old woman who knows if she has a bad heart
There's a reason "Boy who cried wolf" is a common tale. Because when you call false emergencies often, there are consequences when there's a real emergency. If we believe OP (and I do), they passed the "Oh they just want attention" phase.
every time i watch this show i'll come up with a take and then like 2 minutes later joseph will just express the same opinion.
for example with todays episode, about 2/3 of the way into the discussion of the first post i was coming to the conclusion that OP is an asshole doing something with no good outcomes that could probably be the foundation for ending a relationship (with a baby due imminently) and then joseph said it like a minute later
Is it over for me?
No, you just have good takes.
Firstly: Love your pfp and name combo. Hilarious.
Second: You're valid for your take. I feel like most people will side with OP either cause she got the trickshot OR give her the Survival Mode pass. Heck, I give her the pass. But opting to hold her accountable to her garbage move is completely fair to do, and dare I say, based as well.