The first 1000 people to use the link will get a free trial of Skillshare Premium Membership: skl.sh/tokaku11201 INFO AND LINKS: (if you don't read descriptions) Keyboard spreadsheet: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hNMXn_nkpXZIpDHZBcp95E7OweL4594_WDLCY_vTvm0/ Flash custom keyboard (QMK) to 1000hz: (TO BE ADDED) Mina's WIFE FFR post: www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/showthread.php?t=145215 Etienne's WIFE3 video: ua-cam.com/video/YQgGwCZTJp4/v-deo.html Timestamps: 00:00 - Introduction 01:41 - Polling rate and its effects 04:42 - Chord splitting and its effects 08:05 - Keyboard spreadsheet 09:55 - Does polling rate matter on osu? 13:54 - osu! and pull rate 14:34 - Keyswitch debounce and chatter FAQ: 'What is inconsistent polling rate?' I semi-explain it in a keyboard review here ua-cam.com/video/2BoRydJWyEo/v-deo.html 'Why don't you just use the keyboard scan rate website?' Like what their website said, it does not test polling rate. It's not very accurate either depending on your keyboard. It determined my Happy Hacking Keyboard was 33.33hz when it's 125hz, I asked other HHKB owners to test as well and had the same results. So far without buying expensive equipment, Etterna gives the best estimate on keyboard polling rate. 'Is X keyboard 1000hz?' If it's a gaming keyboard from a reputable gaming company that boasts of 1000hz in their marketing material, it most likely is. Not all gaming keyboards are great, but that's polling rate and chord splitting aside and reaches more of per-keyboard review territory. Otherwise, I don't know and you will have to test it yourself. 'But X player got X best score without 1000hz!' Yeah, you can still do crazy things without a 1000hz keyboard, but with a better keyboard, at high levels it gives you more hit window space to work with.
I noticed some softwares can adjust polling rate for mouse and keyboard. Whole there be any reason for a person to LOWER the polling rate? The way I see it: the higher, the better since there was no noted downside.
@@TheBigSad8247 it's mentioned very very briefly at the end. keyswitch debounce causes keys to chatter and send more than one input. lower polling rates will stop it. so it's a bandaid solution for keyboards for longevity
Ya i play on a potato laptop with hdmi cable to a potato tv (ikik a horrible idea for playing a game like osu) with a potato keyboard which is prob 125 hrtz
Items to also consider: Scan rate of the keyboard. Equally as important as polling rate, introduces variability to timing of key press registering. 1000hz polling rate is not that helpful if the keyboard has only a scan rate per key of 33.3hz. Also chord splitting can occur due to a variety of reasons, one of which I've found was in relation to the way the keyboard scans for inputs, or how the keyboard prioritizes certain inputs to send out more than others in certain clusters.
This is seriously interesting for an accuracy player. I like this. Looks at IIDX timing window... 🙄 I just found out that my Vortex Cypher is 1000hz. That's why I suck.
Nice video , but you forget to mention that a low pulling rate can also affect your aim , imagine your cursor being on the note but the 8ms~ delay of the keyboard will be enough to make your cursor out of sync with your tapping and make you miss on jump or space stream. This issue is pretty much only applicable to osu standard .
This is so wrong... most gaming keyboard with 1000hz polling rate would actually take 24+ms for a key press to register, its due to the controller chip inside the keyboard... So if you have an 8k polling rate keyboard, congrats your keyboard can now do 23.125ms lol... now how about we add key press pre-travel, it will most likely take 64+ms Its the same thing with mouse, mouse registers like 8-12ms or maybe even more, but the difference is that mouse is a motion based controller so the higher polling rate is always better
@@ameserich , I love this type of response, you didnt even read what i said, im also pretty sure you didnt even watched the video, im not talking about 8khz or 933925khz, those 8ms i was talking about are the maximum delay caused by the interval of the pulling rate at 125hz (mentioned everywhere in the video). 125hz is 0ms at best and 8ms at the slowest and for 1000hz its 0ms at best and 1ms at the slowest, + every other input lag caused by the the system and peripheral. And key pre-travel is not even software ralated. 1khz+ is a gimmick
@@letor9168 i know... what im simply telling you is that you press the key based on what you see or what you wanna do, and all of that takes a long time to register. You most likely will not be able to tell the difference between 125hz-1000hz polling rate. 250hz would be great, a 500hz would be overkill even if it is chord split... Somehow youtubers find ways to push wrong information (im not mad just sus)
@@ameserich "you most likely won't tell the difference between 125 and 1000hz", that sounds like someone who never played OD10 or even just played osu, the timing window of OD10 is 38ms so those 8 ms of interval is massive (more than 1/5 of the timing window), what you are saying is true for almost every game EXCEPT rythme game I've played osu on a laptop keyboard (mine was 125hz) for 6 months and let me tell you I won't ever go back to a keyboard with less than 250hz for anything over OD9 or 6-7*
I dont even play rythm games, but I like your approach to gaming. As good content as top Tech content producers like Optimum or even Linus Tech Tips, at least in terms of weeding out the marketing fluff and getting to the objective specs that really matter
i was scared after seeing this but apparently after a lot of searching (actually the first result when i googled it) my Razer Huntsman has a polling rate of 1000Hz
Thank god i keep my laptop limited to 60 so it doesn't explode. Always thought it's keyboard cause the timing window pattern, until i saw this video and raised the fps. Guess just another reason to swap to lazer.
If you have a qmk custom, it's a good idea to add these three lines into your config.h file. #define FORCE_NKRO #define USB_POLLING_INTERVAL_MS 1 #define QMK_KEYS_PER_SCAN 8 Doing this will not get rid of chord splitting, but it will noticeably improve your polling rate and allow more keys to be hit per scan.
you know i was so used to 125hz membrane keyboard that the moment i was gonna buy a mechanical keyboard which i never did in my life, made me realized how i'm so used to it to a point somebody in the internet pointed out to me that the hit errors that look oddly placed is just my pooling rate being small, it still didn't stop me from getting below 110UR tho and even higher acc than my friends who had been using mechanical. never felt so damn good over something so small
The problems with debouncing are often due to how the debounce is done in the firmware, and that it can add a lot of delay in some cases. It can also cause chord splitting, if it's done incorrectly. AFAIK, the default debounce method in QMK is to delay for the debounce time before sending the keystroke, which will cause everything to be delayed a fixed amount. it'll still have the same variance due to polling, but with an additional fixed delay on top. For example, a 10ms debounce time could make your response time vary between 10-18ms (0-8 due to usb polling+10 debounce delay) Other methods (which I believe are options in QMK) use a single debounce timer, but send immediately on the first keystroke. They'll send the first keypress in 0-8ms, then wait the debounce time, before reading and sending the other keys. So, using the 10ms debounce as an example, you'll chord split the first keystroke in 0-8, and the others in 10-18. Ideally, it's implemented with a separate debounce counter for every key. when the key is pressed it gets added to the next packet, and its own debounce counter is started. Additional changes (like chatter) on that key will be ignored for the debounce period, but other keys can be pressed, and added to the same packet, if they fall within the same polling interval. matrix scanning can also be an issue. If the matrix is scanned too slowly, or with badly written logic, it can be delayed or chord split as well. Even with 1000Hz polling, the other things matter. You can have 1000Hz, with a stupid debounce, and you won't see the banding in your timing, everything will simply be delayed a fixed amount, before landing in those 1Hz buckets. For example, you may always be delayed 10-11ms, which doesn't hurt scoring as much as having a large variance, but it's still extra delay you have to compensate for. (You can compensate for fixed delay, but not variance) I wrote my own firmware, so I know my keyboard does these things well, but it would actually be pretty hard to test without some specialized equipment to sniff USB in realtime.
very informative, couple of things to thing about here. do you happen to have discord or somewhere I could run some questions about the debounce times by you?
interesting, i'm not observing the perfectly spaced lines on 75bpm, 100bpm, or 125bpm on my gk68x (not optical version) is it possible the normal version has the same inconsistency as the optical version? i would consider that more likely than this being a 1000hz keyboard as i highly doubt that. i'll try to look into this more later, as the epomaker staff are always looking for potential ways to make their products more appealing to gamers and such, so if i find anything i'd like to bring it to them for a potential fix in future releases. edit: according to searching through their discord server the non optical versions of their recent releases might actually be 1000hz. will still look into this further
I got a opto-mechanical hunstman razer keyboard and apparently it has 1000 hz here are the specs: Razer™ Opto-Mechanical Switch with 45 G actuation force 100 million keystroke lifespan Chroma backlighting with 16.8 million customizable color options Hybrid onboard storage - up to 5 profiles Razer Synapse 3 enabled Fully programmable keys with on-the-fly macro recording 10 key roll-over with anti-ghosting Gaming mode option Braided Fiber Cable 1000 Hz Ultrapolling Aluminum matte top plate
You should review the Leopoldo FC750r pretty sure it’s 100hz and the quality is really good especially the keycaps edit: I have the FC750r now and is definitely is 1000hz and definitely recommend for Osu
@@YUEjyut nah it’s def 1k hertz I don’t have the spacing issue in the hit error chart trust I have a gk61 and it’s 125hz and the charts and hit reg are completely different
Yup, that explains it. My expensive keyboard broke, so temporarily I started using a keypad. But I noticed that my consistency has completely vanished. Good thing I have a new one on the way
Me and my friend are writing up a doc on everything that contributes to latency in osu, and keyboard polling + scan rate are big factors to overall latency, and especially constancy.
after replacing my 125hz keyboard with a new 1000hz keyboard, my accuracy noticeably increased. also outemu switches suck, they literally broke from playing osu, gateron so smooth
you can increase qmk polling rate easily, just look it up for an easy tutorial (provided you already know how to flash a keyboard). All you need to do is make a new config file and define the delay or whatever as 1ms and keys per scan as 12 (fixes chord splitting)
I was searching dor so long why my 300s in the acc bar were always jumping around altough i hit the notes consistently perfect. Finally the solution randomly shows up in my recommend, thanks youtube! (And tokaku of course)
id like to make the nitpick that dthr gives od11.1 (but it's still ar 11, bc dt affects od and ar at a slightly different rate for some reason. mb someone arbitrarily thought ar 11.1 was too harsh and capped it at 11 for dt like od and ar is capped at 10 for hr, but never did the same for the od?)
bro i was freaking out because online it said my keyboard was 1000hz but ingame i saw the evenly spaced lines on the hit-error bar and i thought my keyboard was damaged or something but the entire problem was that the game was on power saving fps (120).
i have been playing dj max a while and i noticed a significant improvement on accuracy from wireless to wired keyboard. though my wireless keyboard is some cheap 20 ringgit keyboard as opposed to the mechanical wired keyboard which i have just bought, so taking the polling rate into consideration i am beginning to doubt if wireless and non wireless actually was actually the case alone or with the polling rate too...
I completely forgot about the polling rate and had no clue of what my keyboard frequency is, after watching this and googled it up, I found out that my keyboard is a 1000hz polling rate .w.
I can't take some of these chord splitting comments seriously. Poor soldering? Hot swap sockets? All of this is probably coming from someone who doesn't even know what matrix scanning is.
This video opened my eyes to how some companies lie about their polling rates to get sales. My keyboard claimed to have 1000 Hz polling rate but in reality it has a measly 62.5 Hz one, which is a total joke. Not even the standard 125 Hz. Maybe it is 1000 Hz but the scan rate is 62.5 Hz. If I get into the rhythm gaming scene, I’m definitely using a Wooting. Just wish it was in a bigger layout. Don’t want to take extra steps to use arrow keys.
As the spreadsheet said. Unless you're not that great you will not need that spreadsheet. I'm a 50k player and I use Tecware Phantom (labeled as poor keyboard with 65hz pooling rate) and I feel great on that keyboard. I actually feel better in this keyboard compared to my older brother's Logitech G512. Because I'm already used to it. It's just the matter of getting used on your peripherals. Your body would automatically adjust in when you should tap based on what you are seeing. Just like playing world of warships. You just kinda know. That if you fire this advance you would hit the enemy. Because your body could adjust. So yeah. As Tokaku said. You don't need the spreadsheet if you're not that great. But it would be useful for you in the near feature when you are in that lvl.
Download hidusbf, select Filter on device for all USBs and Install Service Then set to : (optimal settings for the lowest input latency, smoothness and snappy feeling) *Mouse* - 1000 Hz (or 500 Hz) *Keyboard* - 500 or 250 Hz *Mic/Headset* - 125 Hz
i never really cared about this and thought "Nice this could be a nice excuse for me doing bad", but then i googled and found out it seems that i have 1000hz polling rate. Thanks for the info tho, i didnt knew about it
Awesome video. Very helpful and informative. I don't play rhythm games but do test keyboards, and this has been helpful in thinking about how I should test keebs and peripherals in the future.
I found this video while messing around with polling rates on QMK. Here's all you have to do: add this line to your config.h #define USB_POLLING_INTERVAL_MS 1
putting this in a browser console, then pressing several keys at once on a page should be a decent-ish way to test for chord split: var cD=new Date(); var cT=cD.getTime(); document.addEventListener("keydown",(e)=>{ var nD=new Date(); var nT=nD.getTime(); if(nT-cT>200){cT=nT;} console.log(nT-cT); }); basically it looks for keyDown events (holding keys too long will repeatedly call it because windows), whenever it seems more than 200ms difference it resets a timer and counts how much time will pass until the next several keyDown events, and will eventually again reset once it sees 0ms, 125 Hz keyboards will often keep showing intervals of 8ms. thought I should mention that web-based JavaScript isn't exactly known for accurate timing.
Well, good news for you ps/2 guys who probably had that keyboard as a hand me down. mine runs at 35hz (if you're wondering why its that low, i had to free up some bandwidth for my mouse that runs its interrupts at 200hz) but the notes dont seem to band at 70 and 105 bpm for me. my bluetooth keyboard bands at 125bpm and 250bpm ~edit: i dunno if this is true or its just me, i need you guys to confirm this
I'm waiting for the "Flash custom keyboard (QMK) to 1000hz" video. I have no knowledge of 1000hz keyboard flashing but plan to build a custom in the near future.
Good thing i was educated about this i thought being bad in a membrane that cant even hit dense notes accurately as it starts having delays is nothing but an excuse, now i have a mechanical keyboard that actually wasnt a scam and now in 4 months i was hitting shit far than i ever imagined in my membrane keyboard days
I noticed this when ranking up in osu mania. Some 88% acc maps where suddenly 99,75% when I tried a friend's Razer Mechanical Keyboard 1000hz instead of my Craptech board.
i really thought this was 1.25x speed. not used to tokaku speaking that fast and fluently since most of her videos aren't scripted. i like this scripted video, much more informative.
The first 1000 people to use the link will get a free trial of Skillshare Premium Membership: skl.sh/tokaku11201
INFO AND LINKS:
(if you don't read descriptions)
Keyboard spreadsheet: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hNMXn_nkpXZIpDHZBcp95E7OweL4594_WDLCY_vTvm0/
Flash custom keyboard (QMK) to 1000hz: (TO BE ADDED)
Mina's WIFE FFR post: www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/showthread.php?t=145215
Etienne's WIFE3 video: ua-cam.com/video/YQgGwCZTJp4/v-deo.html
Timestamps:
00:00 - Introduction
01:41 - Polling rate and its effects
04:42 - Chord splitting and its effects
08:05 - Keyboard spreadsheet
09:55 - Does polling rate matter on osu?
13:54 - osu! and pull rate
14:34 - Keyswitch debounce and chatter
FAQ:
'What is inconsistent polling rate?'
I semi-explain it in a keyboard review here ua-cam.com/video/2BoRydJWyEo/v-deo.html
'Why don't you just use the keyboard scan rate website?'
Like what their website said, it does not test polling rate. It's not very accurate either depending on your keyboard. It determined my Happy Hacking Keyboard was 33.33hz when it's 125hz, I asked other HHKB owners to test as well and had the same results. So far without buying expensive equipment, Etterna gives the best estimate on keyboard polling rate.
'Is X keyboard 1000hz?'
If it's a gaming keyboard from a reputable gaming company that boasts of 1000hz in their marketing material, it most likely is. Not all gaming keyboards are great, but that's polling rate and chord splitting aside and reaches more of per-keyboard review territory. Otherwise, I don't know and you will have to test it yourself.
'But X player got X best score without 1000hz!'
Yeah, you can still do crazy things without a 1000hz keyboard, but with a better keyboard, at high levels it gives you more hit window space to work with.
A
you can check usb binterval
@@lovelean7164 how?
1v1 robeats dark sheep normal friend me my name in Roblox edrianri no gear if I win you suck
yes
News flash: rhythm games are just typing with extra steps
2 days ago O_O
Tf 2 days ago
2 days ago what?
Everyone talking how he post this 2 days ago lol
Me : Haha..vewy funny
HOW IN GODS NAME IS THIS POSSIBLE???
looked for an excuse why my accuracy is so low, now i just realized im garbage
thats good
Great now people have more excuses for being bad at osu 😂😂
Now my friend can complain why they keep getting 100 instead of 300
No I'm just bad.
Bruh why she talk like rap
Yes lol when I play a beatmap I was like "hey I already clicked that circle, why I miss? oh god damn it"
im still gonna say that im bad lmao
Ah, I was always trying to explain some of these concepts to friends but I could never be this clear, the video and diagrams/images help a lot.
TLDR: high polling equals low latency for ur keyboard
TLDR: Unless you want to pull off high accuracy plays on high ODs, preference matters more then your keyboard.
@@DogeGaming26 I never said anything about preference though
I noticed some softwares can adjust polling rate for mouse and keyboard. Whole there be any reason for a person to LOWER the polling rate? The way I see it: the higher, the better since there was no noted downside.
@@TheBigSad8247 it's mentioned very very briefly at the end. keyswitch debounce causes keys to chatter and send more than one input. lower polling rates will stop it. so it's a bandaid solution for keyboards for longevity
@@tokaku Ahh. Must have missed that. Thanks.
Me watching this on a 1000 hz keyboard: hmmmmmm, interesting
same lmao
basically any normal gaming keyboard
>Watching a video on a keyboard
this can be taken in so many different ways
@@cloroxbleach6825 rgb has really been taken to the next level lol
me watching with a 4000hz corsair k100.....
keyboard latency, polling rate, and chord splitting is interesting and all but
don't even get me started on hardware and software audio latency
Lol true
SO FUCKING TRUEEEEEE
Ya i play on a potato laptop with hdmi cable to a potato tv (ikik a horrible idea for playing a game like osu) with a potato keyboard which is prob 125 hrtz
oh no-
you're actually right
@@ShockingRotom i think laptop are 1000hz
Items to also consider: Scan rate of the keyboard. Equally as important as polling rate, introduces variability to timing of key press registering. 1000hz polling rate is not that helpful if the keyboard has only a scan rate per key of 33.3hz.
Also chord splitting can occur due to a variety of reasons, one of which I've found was in relation to the way the keyboard scans for inputs, or how the keyboard prioritizes certain inputs to send out more than others in certain clusters.
I didn't even realized I had a 1000Hz keyboard until I watched this lol
@@Solastis how can i know my keyboard's hx?
Same but since my laptop and me is shit it doesent matter T^T
@@VascoleD you can either use the vid or check your keybaord manual
same
I have razer huntsman elite wtf 1000 isn't that like the best
I was going to say this is the reason my acc sucks at osu, but then I found out that my keyboard is 1000hz lol
Lol
I’m so counfuesed is 1000hz bad or is 125 bad what is better
@@xuyis3922 1000hz is better basically
mine is advertised as 1000hz but every test i've done puts it at less than 100hz lmfao
@@junberg1 1000hz keyboards are very common these days
This is seriously interesting for an accuracy player. I like this.
Looks at IIDX timing window... 🙄
I just found out that my Vortex Cypher is 1000hz.
That's why I suck.
i care about my accuracy too, it's hard for me to keep it above 92% acc rn but im getting better
@@hockypockies780 I've got 95 acc, but I'm a 7 digit with like 200 pp who is an accuracy masochist
any play (4* or less) less than 95% acc or is not an S is embarassing for me
honestly people being able to play iidx with heavy omron switches with harsh judgement is so impressive
@@emmyciyat9904 6 digit, 528 pp, they are an endangered species
Nice video , but you forget to mention that a low pulling rate can also affect your aim , imagine your cursor being on the note but the 8ms~ delay of the keyboard will be enough to make your cursor out of sync with your tapping and make you miss on jump or space stream. This issue is pretty much only applicable to osu standard .
This is so wrong... most gaming keyboard with 1000hz polling rate would actually take 24+ms for a key press to register, its due to the controller chip inside the keyboard... So if you have an 8k polling rate keyboard, congrats your keyboard can now do 23.125ms lol... now how about we add key press pre-travel, it will most likely take 64+ms
Its the same thing with mouse, mouse registers like 8-12ms or maybe even more, but the difference is that mouse is a motion based controller so the higher polling rate is always better
@@ameserich , I love this type of response, you didnt even read what i said, im also pretty sure you didnt even watched the video, im not talking about 8khz or 933925khz, those 8ms i was talking about are the maximum delay caused by the interval of the pulling rate at 125hz (mentioned everywhere in the video).
125hz is 0ms at best and 8ms at the slowest and for 1000hz its 0ms at best and 1ms at the slowest, + every other input lag caused by the the system and peripheral.
And key pre-travel is not even software ralated.
1khz+ is a gimmick
@@letor9168 i know... what im simply telling you is that you press the key based on what you see or what you wanna do, and all of that takes a long time to register. You most likely will not be able to tell the difference between 125hz-1000hz polling rate. 250hz would be great, a 500hz would be overkill even if it is chord split... Somehow youtubers find ways to push wrong information (im not mad just sus)
@@ameserich "you most likely won't tell the difference between 125 and 1000hz", that sounds like someone who never played OD10 or even just played osu, the timing window of OD10 is 38ms so those 8 ms of interval is massive (more than 1/5 of the timing window), what you are saying is true for almost every game EXCEPT rythme game
I've played osu on a laptop keyboard (mine was 125hz) for 6 months and let me tell you I won't ever go back to a keyboard with less than 250hz for anything over OD9 or 6-7*
@@ameserich "I have grandpa reaction times so I'm gonna gaslight everyone else into thinking it's normal to not notice small differences"
in short: the low quality your keyboard is the bigger you skill cooldown is.
Hey keep up the good work. This video is every well edited
Why do I feel I learned more here than a week's worth of a math lesson in school
I dont even play rythm games, but I like your approach to gaming. As good content as top Tech content producers like Optimum or even Linus Tech Tips, at least in terms of weeding out the marketing fluff and getting to the objective specs that really matter
aw, thank you!
Holy shit what a well made video. Great job on those succulent visuals!
i was scared after seeing this but apparently after a lot of searching (actually the first result when i googled it) my Razer Huntsman has a polling rate of 1000Hz
@tokaku This is one of your best videos yet. I've been a long-time subscriber and love how the quality of your content has improved.
Me : *Don't worry, your keyboard is good enough my lovely 2010 laptop*
awesome video! A lot of effort and work went into this and it's a very interesting topic.
Me watching this with my 4000hz polling rate keyboard: I'm 4 parallel universes ahead of you.
Imagine wasting money on 4000hz polling rate
My reading this comment with my 8000hz polling rate keyboard I'm 8 parallel universes ahead of you
brilliant lecture, professor tokaku
13:56 This is getting better in osu!lazer btw, input and frame rate are handled separately there.
Thank god i keep my laptop limited to 60 so it doesn't explode. Always thought it's keyboard cause the timing window pattern, until i saw this video and raised the fps.
Guess just another reason to swap to lazer.
Gotta love learning new things, thanks for the info! Good vid 👍
Omg......... how did I actually get featured in this video.... Thank you so much. :DDDD
If you have a qmk custom, it's a good idea to add these three lines into your config.h file.
#define FORCE_NKRO
#define USB_POLLING_INTERVAL_MS 1
#define QMK_KEYS_PER_SCAN 8
Doing this will not get rid of chord splitting, but it will noticeably improve your polling rate and allow more keys to be hit per scan.
thank you for posting this!
okay time to enable my polling rate forcer so i can make sure my keyboard is at 1000hz brrr
you know i was so used to 125hz membrane keyboard that the moment i was gonna buy a mechanical keyboard which i never did in my life, made me realized how i'm so used to it to a point somebody in the internet pointed out to me that the hit errors that look oddly placed is just my pooling rate being small, it still didn't stop me from getting below 110UR tho and even higher acc than my friends who had been using mechanical. never felt so damn good over something so small
if my computer sucks, can it be used as a vacuum?
Depends on how much it sucks?
@@L-udo not even 1 FPS in 2015 games
funny
@@yumeiraosu no he means how well it sucks things up
@@KPoWasTaken well, it's 59 suck per second then
The problems with debouncing are often due to how the debounce is done in the firmware, and that it can add a lot of delay in some cases.
It can also cause chord splitting, if it's done incorrectly.
AFAIK, the default debounce method in QMK is to delay for the debounce time before sending the keystroke, which will cause everything to be delayed a fixed amount. it'll still have the same variance due to polling, but with an additional fixed delay on top. For example, a 10ms debounce time could make your response time vary between 10-18ms (0-8 due to usb polling+10 debounce delay)
Other methods (which I believe are options in QMK) use a single debounce timer, but send immediately on the first keystroke. They'll send the first keypress in 0-8ms, then wait the debounce time, before reading and sending the other keys. So, using the 10ms debounce as an example, you'll chord split the first keystroke in 0-8, and the others in 10-18.
Ideally, it's implemented with a separate debounce counter for every key. when the key is pressed it gets added to the next packet, and its own debounce counter is started. Additional changes (like chatter) on that key will be ignored for the debounce period, but other keys can be pressed, and added to the same packet, if they fall within the same polling interval.
matrix scanning can also be an issue. If the matrix is scanned too slowly, or with badly written logic, it can be delayed or chord split as well.
Even with 1000Hz polling, the other things matter. You can have 1000Hz, with a stupid debounce, and you won't see the banding in your timing, everything will simply be delayed a fixed amount, before landing in those 1Hz buckets. For example, you may always be delayed 10-11ms, which doesn't hurt scoring as much as having a large variance, but it's still extra delay you have to compensate for. (You can compensate for fixed delay, but not variance)
I wrote my own firmware, so I know my keyboard does these things well, but it would actually be pretty hard to test without some specialized equipment to sniff USB in realtime.
very informative, couple of things to thing about here. do you happen to have discord or somewhere I could run some questions about the debounce times by you?
i wonder how those osu keypads that are manufactured by that one guy do in their polling rate
1000hz. Arduino uses a chip that polls that quickly. Most custom keyboard PCBs have the same chip but are flashed to 125hz on default
I don't know who you are or what this channel is but I learned a lot. Thanks
Edit: I was just looking up info about keyboard polling
i was watching another tokaku vid when this uploaded lol
Same lmao
Very insightful thank you
interesting, i'm not observing the perfectly spaced lines on 75bpm, 100bpm, or 125bpm on my gk68x (not optical version)
is it possible the normal version has the same inconsistency as the optical version? i would consider that more likely than this being a 1000hz keyboard as i highly doubt that.
i'll try to look into this more later, as the epomaker staff are always looking for potential ways to make their products more appealing to gamers and such, so if i find anything i'd like to bring it to them for a potential fix in future releases.
edit: according to searching through their discord server the non optical versions of their recent releases might actually be 1000hz. will still look into this further
I got a opto-mechanical hunstman razer keyboard and apparently it has 1000 hz
here are the specs:
Razer™ Opto-Mechanical Switch with 45 G actuation force
100 million keystroke lifespan
Chroma backlighting with 16.8 million customizable color options
Hybrid onboard storage - up to 5 profiles
Razer Synapse 3 enabled
Fully programmable keys with on-the-fly macro recording
10 key roll-over with anti-ghosting
Gaming mode option
Braided Fiber Cable
1000 Hz Ultrapolling
Aluminum matte top plate
You should review the Leopoldo FC750r pretty sure it’s 100hz and the quality is really good especially the keycaps
edit: I have the FC750r now and is definitely is 1000hz and definitely recommend for Osu
@@YUEjyut nah it’s def 1k hertz I don’t have the spacing issue in the hit error chart trust I have a gk61 and it’s 125hz and the charts and hit reg are completely different
@@YUEjyut you got the wrong leopold
@@YUEjyut 😂
Yup, that explains it. My expensive keyboard broke, so temporarily I started using a keypad. But I noticed that my consistency has completely vanished. Good thing I have a new one on the way
1:00 what beatmap is this? i really need to know
Me and my friend are writing up a doc on everything that contributes to latency in osu, and keyboard polling + scan rate are big factors to overall latency, and especially constancy.
I just realize my keyboard has a pulling rate of 1000
after replacing my 125hz keyboard with a new 1000hz keyboard, my accuracy noticeably increased.
also outemu switches suck, they literally broke from playing osu, gateron so smooth
tutorial to flash custom boards to 1000hz when
1:43 for USB its the host that does the polling, so its the pc thats asking the kb/mouse what it has done every period
you can increase qmk polling rate easily, just look it up for an easy tutorial (provided you already know how to flash a keyboard).
All you need to do is make a new config file and define the delay or whatever as 1ms and keys per scan as 12 (fixes chord splitting)
Quality video, learned a lot, thanks
12:06 GD community is proud 🗿
some missing information on the keyboard spreadsheet: leopold fc750r using ps/2 is 1000hz
Sorry but, I can't change my keyboard, its stuck in my laptop.
Buy a keyboard
I was searching dor so long why my 300s in the acc bar were always jumping around altough i hit the notes consistently perfect. Finally the solution randomly shows up in my recommend, thanks youtube! (And tokaku of course)
id like to make the nitpick that dthr gives od11.1
(but it's still ar 11, bc dt affects od and ar at a slightly different rate for some reason. mb someone arbitrarily thought ar 11.1 was too harsh and capped it at 11 for dt like od and ar is capped at 10 for hr, but never did the same for the od?)
Its been literally years and iv allways wondered what OD actually was.. thank you.. you have educated me!
what.. how..
@@azael2078 i honestly never spent the 5 seconds of my day to go look it up on google lol.
@@L-udo its literally a in game feature its so obvious
it tells you in game
@@azael2078 i literally. Never looked lol i just played the game lol
me already knowing that my keyboard is 1000hz and why that matters:
ah yes i see now
bro i was freaking out because online it said my keyboard was 1000hz but ingame i saw the evenly spaced lines on the hit-error bar and i thought my keyboard was damaged or something but the entire problem was that the game was on power saving fps (120).
Me : **comment this**
Early people : **Trying to think something funny so they get pinned or noticed**
It didnt work
@@burnchicken5734 k
When you realize your keyboard both has a chord splitting issue and a 125hz pulling rate....
Thumbnail: Your Keyboard Probably Sucks
Me with a membrane: You're DAMN right
i have been playing dj max a while and i noticed a significant improvement on accuracy from wireless to wired keyboard. though my wireless keyboard is some cheap 20 ringgit keyboard as opposed to the mechanical wired keyboard which i have just bought, so taking the polling rate into consideration i am beginning to doubt if wireless and non wireless actually was actually the case alone or with the polling rate too...
I completely forgot about the polling rate and had no clue of what my keyboard frequency is, after watching this and googled it up, I found out that my keyboard is a 1000hz polling rate .w.
Skillshare is literally all youtubers sponsor now (my opinion)
I can't take some of these chord splitting comments seriously. Poor soldering? Hot swap sockets? All of this is probably coming from someone who doesn't even know what matrix scanning is.
osu!lazer polls at 1000 Hz and I can't wait for it to replace stable!
tokaku's accent and how fast she talks with my 35hz understanding of people with different accents don't work well together
now i understand why the hit error bar does breakdance when i use my 2008 acer membrane keyboard
This video opened my eyes to how some companies lie about their polling rates to get sales. My keyboard claimed to have 1000 Hz polling rate but in reality it has a measly 62.5 Hz one, which is a total joke. Not even the standard 125 Hz. Maybe it is 1000 Hz but the scan rate is 62.5 Hz.
If I get into the rhythm gaming scene, I’m definitely using a Wooting. Just wish it was in a bigger layout. Don’t want to take extra steps to use arrow keys.
tokaku your mic sounds amazing now but you should put some low end on it with an eq so it sounds even better!
As the spreadsheet said. Unless you're not that great you will not need that spreadsheet. I'm a 50k player and I use Tecware Phantom (labeled as poor keyboard with 65hz pooling rate) and I feel great on that keyboard. I actually feel better in this keyboard compared to my older brother's Logitech G512. Because I'm already used to it. It's just the matter of getting used on your peripherals. Your body would automatically adjust in when you should tap based on what you are seeing. Just like playing world of warships. You just kinda know. That if you fire this advance you would hit the enemy. Because your body could adjust. So yeah. As Tokaku said. You don't need the spreadsheet if you're not that great. But it would be useful for you in the near feature when you are in that lvl.
The thumbnail... I HAVE THAT KEYBOARD UHM
Tokaku: Talks about Polling Rate
Me: Laughing with my Corsair k100
Keep checking and waiting for flashing qmk to 1000hz video to be added
This is such a good video
Download hidusbf, select Filter on device for all USBs and Install Service
Then set to : (optimal settings for the lowest input latency, smoothness and snappy feeling)
*Mouse* - 1000 Hz (or 500 Hz)
*Keyboard* - 500 or 250 Hz
*Mic/Headset* - 125 Hz
i never really cared about this and thought "Nice this could be a nice excuse for me doing bad", but then i googled and found out it seems that i have 1000hz polling rate. Thanks for the info tho, i didnt knew about it
That mania circle skin looks so clean
Me: Searched for Polling rate
Tokaku: Ik what are u thinking :>
I never knew about polling rates and i just realized that this is the reason i cant press 4 keys on my second row at the same time
Nope that's ghosting, which is dependent on the keyboard matrix
@@LongNguyen-dh3bm oh ok
"play a map at 250 bpm if your bar looks likes this it's probably 125hz"
me: so that's why I fail the map instantly or maybe this vid is not for me
Just double checked, my keyboard polls at 1k, I just suck
15:26 'Remember to wear a vest'
:wheeze:
Awesome video. Very helpful and informative. I don't play rhythm games but do test keyboards, and this has been helpful in thinking about how I should test keebs and peripherals in the future.
I found this video while messing around with polling rates on QMK. Here's all you have to do:
add this line to your config.h
#define USB_POLLING_INTERVAL_MS 1
holy shit ct
Now I know that it's not my click it's the keyboard
putting this in a browser console, then pressing several keys at once on a page should be a decent-ish way to test for chord split:
var cD=new Date();
var cT=cD.getTime();
document.addEventListener("keydown",(e)=>{
var nD=new Date();
var nT=nD.getTime();
if(nT-cT>200){cT=nT;}
console.log(nT-cT);
});
basically it looks for keyDown events (holding keys too long will repeatedly call it because windows), whenever it seems more than 200ms difference it resets a timer and counts how much time will pass until the next several keyDown events, and will eventually again reset once it sees 0ms, 125 Hz keyboards will often keep showing intervals of 8ms. thought I should mention that web-based JavaScript isn't exactly known for accurate timing.
Well, good news for you ps/2 guys who probably had that keyboard as a hand me down. mine runs at 35hz (if you're wondering why its that low, i had to free up some bandwidth for my mouse that runs its interrupts at 200hz) but the notes dont seem to band at 70 and 105 bpm for me. my bluetooth keyboard bands at 125bpm and 250bpm
~edit: i dunno if this is true or its just me, i need you guys to confirm this
I'm waiting for the "Flash custom keyboard (QMK) to 1000hz" video. I have no knowledge of 1000hz keyboard flashing but plan to build a custom in the near future.
Good thing i was educated about this i thought being bad in a membrane that cant even hit dense notes accurately as it starts having delays is nothing but an excuse, now i have a mechanical keyboard that actually wasnt a scam and now in 4 months i was hitting shit far than i ever imagined in my membrane keyboard days
What kind of mechanic keyboard did you got? I'm trying to find a good one
Now I have an excuse when I get a pc to say it’s the keyboard/game and not me.
Just got a new keyboard which really looked like the 75hz one you showed, mine is 1000hz luckily. Was scared for a sec there 😅
...and I'm too afraid to test my laptop keyboard
12:07 pog guitar Hero styles
Me: *changes offset*
Also me: *Modern problems require modern solutions.*
I noticed this when ranking up in osu mania. Some 88% acc maps where suddenly 99,75% when I tried a friend's Razer Mechanical Keyboard 1000hz instead of my Craptech board.
i really thought this was 1.25x speed. not used to tokaku speaking that fast and fluently since most of her videos aren't scripted. i like this scripted video, much more informative.
thanks for letting me know
All I can here in every single video is "Hello evwybody"
My keyboard is 1000 Polling Rate. I must be cool, I have a k70.
Same i have the low profile k70 mk2
Thanks, now I know what to look for when I buy a new keyboard!