I personally think D:SW is a winner! See my video from yesterday unpacking what makes it a great strategy game: ua-cam.com/video/7376eMR88NM/v-deo.html
Agree.. book vs new movie is silly arguments from people. No 4x, historic, or anything is going exact on history. Sure there is elements but it wouldn't be a game if it did exactly because there would be 0 choices.
I think part of the issue is that you can't recreate the old Dune RTS games while also being faithful to the books. I loved the old Dune games, but big old tank battles on Arrakis are not really a thing in the lore. I can see that Spice Wars might disappoint people who are looking for something closer to the original games, but I also think Shiro made the right call by basing the game around the first book, as well as trying to do something new in terms of gameplay.
This game is very basic and boring.. the UI also kinda sucks ngl. It is hardly a 4x game... overall though the main issue is that its just so basic... About being true to the books.. the smugglers... really..cant call them house of ordos.. lol
And I'd be willing to bet that there'd be a bunch of people complaining if they tried to make it like Dune 2 since it would be way too similar to Command and Conquer (because Dune 2 was the originator of C&C-style RTS games).
Also, it's an outdated formula. I really don't get why people assumed that this is a continuation of the old Dune games. It's an RTS game that takes place in the Dune universe. There's literally no reason for it to be the same as the old ones.
@@dislikecounter6392 bruh - House Ordos doesn't exist as far as the books are concerned. it's entirely made up. So yeah, they are being true to the books by calling them the smugglers.
Nah, best is when people cry about some minor things "BUT I WANT IT TO BE MORE LORE ACCURATE!" And then say in the same sentence they want it to be like Dune 2000
No one played the old dune games. C&C made them obsolete. Tiberian Dawn improved all about Dune 2, and Dune 2000 was a remake of Dune 2 with Tiberian Dawn improvements. The other Dune games are adventure games nobody played and thats why Cryo Interactive (the developer of those games) went bankrupt.
I think the problem is (as you also pointed out) expectations. As an old fan of Dune II, Dune 2000 and Emperor: Battle for Dune I was immediately hyped when I heard of a new strategy game. Heck the games got me hooked back then and made me read the books and watch all the movies. Upon reading that it's not a pure RTS (like Command & Conquer, Age of Empire, Starcraft, Warcraft etc) my excitement soon turned into slightly interested but a bit sceptical. Obviously I would never blame the studio for obtaining the license and giving it their own spin and I am really glad they are doing something beautiful with it. Somehow though I still hold a decades long grudge with EA for buying Westwood Studios and ruining them and their franchises :O I will definitely check out Spice Wars at some point, but I fear the genre mix might not be my cup of tea. Thank you for your videos on it :)
It's funny. Even as a massive book fan I could never get into the West Wood games (Loved the cryo adventure strategy game though). I thought the knife fights in a sci-fi universe was a great and novel idea, and was sad to see that West Wood just had the same kind of rosters as their C&C games. All the things that make you less enthusiastic is precisely why I am psyched about Spice Wars. But let's hope, that someone will make the rts game that you want as well!
RTS is a bit of a game developer trap imo, it's fine that they decided to make a stellaris dune in this day and age. have you seen giant grant games's take on it? i'd certainly rather they make a stellaris dune than an AoE4 that flops.
As an old Command and Conquer fan (my first game was the N64 port) I hace to say Why? C&C made Dune 2 obsolete, Dune 2000 was a remake of Dune 2, so basically a C&C with a Dune skin. The games are as accurate as the horrible David Lynch movie, basically why would you like that?
Yeah that's more than fair, not sure how your opinion has changed since. I've been enjoying the game it's something different for sure has a lot of potential in the diplomacy side, looks great for multiplayer. But I get what you mean I can't help but hunger for a proper return-to-form RTS base building game. Been playing Dawn of War recently with the unification mod, it's awesome. But damn I want a new one.
it's early access, and looks very polished. There's stuff I want more off- and I hope replayability is improved, but there aren't many video games in the 3-4 hour range so this could be a major winner. Add more factions (maybe more than 2 more . . .), a bit more tech, units, buildings and maybe advisors (only a bit to keep this game still within the 4 hour range) and it's a slam dunk.
I love the old Dune games. But I also love the books and let's be honest here, this new one is a MUCH more accurate portrayal of the world of Dune. There is warfare in Dune (which the books don't depict very much, by the way, with the exception of Heretics), sure, but there's an equal amount of politics, plotting, scheming backstabbing and unstable alliances. Conflicts are almost never resolved by military might alone, there's always some clever tactics, politics, betrayal etc. involved and the battle is just a culmination of that. Which is exactly how this game approaches the setting. So I cringe a bit every time someone says how it's not "faithful to the lore" when by the lore they mean the old games. I even saw someone complaining that the Atreides colors shouldn't be green...and I was like "Stop dude...just stop..."
Only read the first dune book myself and I read more politics than warfare And from the book reviews I've watch it also seems that way So I also don't get that they are complaining about not faithful to the lore😂😂😂😂😂😂
I think one of the bigger reasons for the hate is that a lot of people these days and rightly so are very suspicious of and untrusting of early access games, since many of them never finish or just get abandoned. Dune: Spice wars though is fleshed out enough that it is mostly a finished game at it's current state and price. It also seems like it is getting the support it needs as well.
And it's from a reputable developer, Shiro games, who are known to support their games well even years after release (Northgard, which still gets support, and not only through dlc). It also shows they are implementing a bunch of innovations on the Northgard strategy formula, and it plays smoother than Northgard as well, so really it is a fine game as is. A lot of the hate is definitely not deserved
Gamer Zac ( don't think I spelled that right) said some companies are more honest with early access vs full release and Shiro games is one of the honest ones.
Before watching the video my theory: People hate new things. They pretend they don't, but when there is something new they will always first hate on it.
Honestly, “Stellaris focused on a single planet” is the kind of negative review that sells me on this game. The biggest problem with Stellaris is needing to make hundreds of planets unique and in the process making them generic; focusing all that on Arrakis means it’s allowed to have a spicy flavor. I’ll miss the Ordos, but it’s not like they were canon. Pretend the smugglers are Ordos, they’re how they’d play in this kind of game anyway.
After putting in a couple dozen hours into the game, my observation is this: The AI pretty much screws the player in late game. All sides go after you, raids bypass other factions to raid your cities, the RNG on the fights can be sus at times.
last game i played my territory made physical contact with harkonnen and smugglers and the fuckers literally sent multiple combat units into the territory touching theirs. you could argue they signed a nonaggression pact or some sort of mechanical explanation of why this happened but without some measure of transparency the image is that of the ai constantly colluding in tandem to destroy the player when in fact the reality may truly be that there is background politicking that explains it but i don't want to hear that shit when i lose a base and my water production falls and triggers unrest in multiple bases. irritating!
@@copsuicide man, do I get where you're coming from! This is why i picked smugglers as my faction and just do the following steps: 1. keep my territories small to avoid dealing with Chungus McFungus, Ms. Gordon Freemen and Mr. Greenclad Chad III (using neutral territories as buffers) 2. Pillage and plunder said villages to keep my economy going 3. Build black markets on spice fields and water treatment plants to steal their "hard-earned" resources 4. Zerg rush 5. ??? 6. Profit Note: further game testing is required for this strat, but who knows? Maybe this could be the game's meta
I admit I'm uncertain about whether this game will click with me or not. I need to see much more coverage through let's plays and gameplay guides before I can make that decision. And besides, I'm already buried in heaps of strategy games to explore further (Old World, Distant Worlds 2, Humankind) All that's to say that this indeed is a complex beast that is hard to pin down. If it was a game that fit the mold I would have already made my decision.
I normally don't buy early access games, but maybe ill buy it out of spite, read a lot of the negative reviews and found most of them to be very silly based off of playing a lot of Northgard and having watch a bunch of peoples LP and streams.
If you were ever to buy an early acces game, Shiro are probably the best developers to buy it from. They are one of the few developers that only start the early access when the game is actually fun. And if you don't like it, you should just refund it. 2 hours is long enough for this game, as the loop is the same, it just gets more complex in the late game.
Been playing this game for a week straight. The empire building part is a gem, very enjoyable. Unfortunatelly the battles become huge bore after a while. This is how battles work. You get units with specific buffs to other units (like a unit gives 5% more attack to other units shooting at the same target). So your job is to mix and match these units to buff each other. Once you get the hang of it, then you run around always having the same army composition, kicking ass everywhere you find it.
I am old school Westwood Studios fan! I don't believe in trade or negotiations. Even the Battles in Dune Spice War are awfully boring! I believe in going to War directly! Glyph Worlds has made a similar Dune RTS game called Barkhan! Looking forward to it!
See, I can relate to the old Dune players because I started playing Dune 2000 on PC back when I was a child.. It had a very Command and Conquer feel to it. The original House setup from that game was House of Atreides, House of Harkonnen, and House of Ordos. When I saw this version of Dune, I became aware that I'd probably have to watch the movie first, since there is no campaign mode with cut scenes and all (which may change upon official release). I was kind of bummed because although Atreides and Harkonnen were badass in the old game, so was Ordos. I would've loved to see what the House of Ordos would've looked like in this version of release. But really, you could check the fan-wiki site and see there were much more houses than just those. I wonder if the developers plan on adding houses as the game progresses. That would be interesting to watch.
I am old school Westwood Studios fan! I don't believe in trade or negotiations. Even the Battles in Dune Spice War are awfully boring! I believe in going to War directly! Glyph Worlds has made a similar Dune RTS game called Barkhan! Looking forward to it!
@@seasand6705 for example, i really enjoy the moments when the enemy breaks theough my lines in coh 1 amd hoi4 , the rush rhat goes through you at that moment is amazing. Thats also why i play rally sims and not track sims
I think it's pretty good. A short form 4x game with good mechanics and distinct play styles for each of the factions. Can't wait for it to get a full release and we start seeing DLC houses
I played about 5hrs yesterday, and found the game well rounded, and has tons of meat to strategize with (meaning replay ability is already there)…. Looking forward to watching this game evolve. It’s a solidly positive start.
Pretty well polished early access release all things considered. I can see RTS only folks not enjoying it especially if they expected this to be like the previous two dune games.
That's the thing. It IS an RTS in every sense of the term, just like Distant Worlds 2 is, or Stellaris is. To me, this plays much like Sins of a Solar Empire. In fact, I'd say this is almost the perfect format for 4x games. Imagine it they'd used this RTS style for Gladius...
As someone who both enjoyed the books AND grew up with the old games I can tell you very much that Dune is not about all out war. It is certainly there, but not what it is about. Dune is about greasy nitty gritty politics, promises and lies, deception and assassination. Honestly I think this game needs to do more of that, similar to how the Dune board game does, encouraging you to make promises, offers, and treaties, all while crossing your fingers behind your back and getting your knife ready, fully knowing your "ally" is doing the same. That is what I would love to see from this game.
GoT is Dune in a LOTR setting. Dune is all about politics. The Spice is Oil, Dune is the middle east, Paul is a mix of Nixon and Kennedy and God Emperor of Dune is a criticism on Comunism. Race, Gender, etc. All is built into Dune in a way that shows how nothing is what It seem like. I was blown away when they implied Atreides were actually not that good (using propaganda to portray them as good rulers while exploiting the land, House Atreides is basically House Manifest Destiny!) And then at the end the Evil Harkonen and the Atreides were basically the same family. Quite a hot take during the cold war.
I think that this game is a fantastic blend of turn based 4x grand campaign style games and RTS games. This is the progress and innovation that the strategy/RTS games needs. When you engage in every aspect of the game and use all of your tools and strengths you can win. I think that people who don't like it either couldn't do that or they didn't play long enough to discovery and use all the tools at their disposal.
Overall, I'm really liking this blend of RTS with 4X. However, I really really do hope that Shiro games expands and continues working and honing and adding to this base foundation. 1) DEEPER MILITARY: My number #1 complaint (granted as a Emperor: Battle for Dune fan) is that MILITARY limitation to ONLY effectively INFANTRY troops only. I'd like to see some TANKS, ARTILLERY and AIRCRAFT incorporated and added onto the military roster. For example: Similar to the Missile Turret site positioning that can sometimes cover 2 villages, then with a slow but long-range Artillery military unit placement can strike or defend 2 villages and has to be placed on rock outcroppings. Tanks and Artillery would need larger battle-spaces so rock outcroppings need to increase in the map generation. More on that later in the MAP and REGION generation points #5 and #6. Also, units to cost less command and there to be much higher command. I don't like that most of my villages are only defended my milita. Very tough to have a defensive and an offensive force. All ends up being is one big ball of infantry moving across the map slowly, with no meta way currently to have ACTUAL multiple fronts... it's just one slow-moving boring front... and any other front where other factions are pushing you, you auto-lose because militia suck. This problem would exacerbate especially if there are more factions added down the line, adding more venues/theaters/regions to be raided and invaded from. 2) FIX airports. I dunno, currently with how small the radius is (even with upgrades), these do NOT justify their costs. Either significantly increase the default and upgraded ranges. Or Change how they operate. By reading the tooltips, I thought that any regions with an Airport would be able to instantly travel via its shuttles. This way, I could be strategic and put one airport by a village closest to my ORIGIN CITY and then another Airport to the eastern frontline. Then, any new troops could (for fee and cooldown) use this airport to travel to my eastern front village. However, this was not possible to do in the current build. The most my unit could travel is just really just a SINGLE village away... Airports should allow you to move 3-5 villages/regions away. Fine, maybe not 10 or more. But 1-3 villages distance is WAY too little. 3) EXPANDED BUILDINGS META At 500, all 5 slots filled, a village should be able to upgrade to a City, with at least half the districts as the ORIGIN city. Reward for developing a village fully. In special regions, for example where a Sietch would provide 100% maintenance for all buildings and where there is a unique resource (spice, metals, rare minerals), then that region would take priority over a region with no sietch or unique resources. Limit the # of cities and cap them fine. However, the current ONLY single ORIGIN or starting City with development/districts feels VERY not 4X to me. 4) MORE FACTIONS! Just 4 is waay too limiting. Either for free or via DLC, I'd LOVE to see the following: House Corrino, House Ix, Bene Tleilax, Bene Gesserit, Sardaukar. And even though the following factions are already included in the Espionage screen, I'd still be excited to play the following: The Spacing Guild, CHOAM, and Landsraad. 5) MORE MAP GENERATION toggles/settings. For example: What if I want an almost sand-less but craggy, more Sahara-like Arrakis? This way, the worms are almost not a threat, but instead storms and earthquakes or lava are. Also, this rock-outcropping 90% map or High on "buildable" and "worm-safe" terrain would open up more epic battles with heavier MILITARY like vehicles/tanks and artillery. Or opposite: Make the sand most of the world and really punish the players, almost survival game mode type. 6) MORE UNIQUE REGIONAL effects All games so far has this POLAR ICE CAP right in the MIDDLE of the map ALL THE TIME which basically the ownership of takes care of ALL of your water problems for the playthrough and gives you 1K hegemony. Compared to other regions, this region is too powerful. I think it needs to be scaled back, like to something 25-33% of itself but have 3-4 more of these sprinkled throughout the map. So yes, a single faction may eventually control ALL 3-4 of such polar caps but not just ONE single faction steamrolls then hard. That's it for now. I'll add to this review, as I play more and patches come in. Oh, I don't think there are too many resources to manage. I just want more control/settings/deeper gameplay, especially for end-game. Over 'n out! ~TK
I do not know what you are doing wrong but you can travel from any airfield to any airfield regardless of distance. The ring just says the range in which armies need to be in order to transport. Also they have said there will be one new faction during EA and another one on full release at minimum. I agree with the armies though. I want tanks so much. I will also add that I feel like rebellions should have to fight the garrisoned militia and not instantly take over the village.
@@Apollysis Oh snap! I think I'm using it wrong then lol ... then they didn't make the UI or flow intuitive enough, or I'm just slow. And totally agree with you that when rebellion breaks out, the NEW rebels should be fighting EXISTING MILITIA of the town. I mean we paid for and trained and support them, so there's little reason why these loyal militias would just vanish or switch sides so easily without a fight or consequence. Yeah, I REALLY want tanks, artillery and especially aircraft so much. Very pissed that the Ornithopter is relegated to only a scout role. This would open up new meta openings! For example: let's say I opt to rush Airport and get 1-2 Attack Ornithopters out. To do so, I need more Fuel earlier on than usual. So I may opt for the Fuel village over a RareEarth or Metals village to support that opening. Yet, what I GAIN is that I can then use my Attack Ornithopters to harass, kill crew of the enemy Harvesters, or later in-game with rocket upgrades to the Attack Ornithopters and greater numbers, to completely snipe and deny Spice/Solari to enemy factions.
They said this game was gonna be more based off the books, so I don’t think they’ll ever add more polar caps. And they won’t add non flying artillery likely because of that because ground vehicles are easily suceptible to worms
@@DeadHatzGuy While that's true that ground vehicles are easily susceptible, but only if they're like stationary and don't move off the sand at all. I mean they got it right or I liked how it was in Emperor: Battle for Dune. For example, while the Harkonenn had the Devastator powerful tank kinda like Red Alert 2 Soviet Armageddon tank.. what I liked is that the Ordos main vehicle unit was a long-range artillery. And such a long-range artillery can be very fun and meta way to use in Dune: Spice Wars, to reward players who exploit the randomly generated geography of able to attack/defend 2 or even 3 villages from some randomly generated outcroppings. Perhaps, such late-game unique unit artillery can be lifted off with Carryalls, and such the need for Airport and similar buildings is increased. Of course, I'd actually be against House Ordos because they're non-canon, but Bene Tleilaxu are actually very similar.
This game has more in common with the 80s Dune board game (which I own the recent remake of) rather than the old Dune RTS games. I have played it for about 10 hours and I like it so far.
I think it could be a 4x because you Explore, you Exploit resources (Like spice), you expand (peaceful or by force), And you exterminate (unless your Atreides and you peacefully annex everything).
Yeah got my copy the day it came out. It's an 8/10 and just needs some polish but that's normal and one of the best early access games I've played in a while. Haven't had any bug problems and the art style is wonderful. No complaints from me
It's definitely a 4X game, you explore, you expand, you exploit and then you exterminate. That's the core loop and it's deep in the DNA of this game, an all other contenders including Stellaris, Civ, Endless Legends/Endless Space share this same vibe. Arguing about the definition kind of misses the point, when people are upset that it's "not a TRUE 4x game" they're actually just upset that it's missing whatever thing they feel is EsSEnNtiAL to the 4X experience. Any new interpretations of the genre will rebalance the four phases - for example Stellaris keeps the exploration vibe going way until midgame, while the civ games feel like exploration is rather barebones - plop down a couple cities and then exploration boils down to hitting auto explore and forgetting about the scout until a barbarian bitchslaps it. Anyway, people are entitled to their opinion, but it's a useless one - the important part isn't that "this is/is not a 4X game" the important thing to focus on is "I don't like that it's real time" or "I think the expansion phase is too slow". But people get very caught up in arguing about "and so IT IS NOT 4X" rather than realizing they're simply stating their preference.
To be fair, technically using that definition every RTS like Warcraft or StarCraft is a 4X game. 4X normally is turn based and more strategy based, though this I do think kind of blends the line between RTS and 4X really well.
@@nevermore7285 there's zero exploration component in classic RTS games, and expansion is completely optional in a lot of very viable strategies, if we're being technical 😉
I'm old enough to have played Dune 2k when it came out. This game isn't anything like that, and for those of us who played at least that one, this one is a bit disorienting if you expect a similar game coming in. Still, I'm enjoying the exploration aspect. I agree with the "overly complicated" criticism, but I'm still going to try to parse through it and enjoy it. Your tutorials are helpful. Thank you!
for the claim of is it a 4x id say this, is there exploration? yes you have to explore the map, survey point on it and find special properties of the locations is there expansion? yes you have to take control of ares of the map by capturing settlement across it is there exploitation? yes after expanding to a new area you will build building to exploit the resourses of that locations be it metal, water, fuel or manpower. is there extermination? yes you exterminate the local milita first and after that you enemies thrue many different way. now i will say its not a traditional turnbased 4x game, but a 4x game it is. and for the rts side is it real time? yes is it a strategy game? yes now is a traditional rts like company of heroes or dawn of war? no but it can be called a rts.
Yeah and that’s kind of the point in trying to get across too - it incorporates it all (and I’d also add survival/ base building elements as a third subgenre)
I played all Westwood Dune games, and this looks more like a real time Civilisation game on Arrakis. I rarely buy games in early access, so i'll wait .
I have played 5 games of it so far, and every time, I have resigned. Not because the AI beat me, but because I could not control the crazy upkeep. I thought I just had to "get good" (I am playing Elden Ring, so I am very experienced now with losing and retrying); I thought I just had to learn the mechanics better (the tutorial is just awful and really lacking), but I just could not overcome the mechanics themselves. For just one example: Most everything you build costs plascrete, and also can have a Plascrete upkeep, but it costs plascrete to build plascrete factories; and it cost plascrete to clear out space to build plascrete factories so you can make plascrete. It's just an over complex upkeep system that can put you in a economic death spiral with no way out.
Build the structure that reduces upkeep for neighbouring sectors, find areas with the 50% plascrete production and just keep on adding plascrete production in each city if need be, just be mindful of what you build and the buildings upkeep and you should be fine
you just need to slow down a little on expansion. don't just grab every village you see in the beginning, and look at the upkeep costs for each thing you build. IE the recuirtment center is super expensive. Also keep an eye on council resolutions there is a nasty +30% plascrete upkeep one. To start you should pick up your first spice place, and then find a plascreate area.
sooo it´s a mechanic fighting with the upkeep, got it. Though at first i got some traumatriggers for the true classic "colonization" where the economics getting "bad" kinda was the end game that forced you to break away from your European ruler and start you war for independence (taxes on the sellable resources getting high and/or you blocking em out to avoid that)
'Why do people-' yeah that's an issue right there. It should be why do SOME PEOPLE. Otherwise you paint a very different narrative. you mention it is getting great reviews and such... so why talk like 'everyone hates it' to begin with? Also - Game is like stellaris! too many resources!
One of the most inconsequential and yet infuriating argument against the game is that House Atreides “should be blue” meanwhile the house banner is actually green and black. Dune: Spice Wars gets the colors right. If you’re gonna bring up color arguments at least get it right >:(
People should compare it to Sins of a Solar Empire instead of stellaris. This game crosses also the barrier of 4x and real time very similar to dune. It is one of my favorite games and I hope dune will go into that direction. sins of a solar empire has a more detailed combat system and has a great zoom in function to have smaller but larger armies that can only be seen in detail after zooming in, I think the small dune armies are limiting the combat tactics a lot... I liked my first playthroughs of this game, but indeed some elements need refining (combat, research, the worm/arakis, midgame pacing, graphics)
It has potential, but lacks military content. It needs more variety of units, vehicles, systems etc. They recently removed a fremen unit for example that allowed the player to set up a temporary supply base to allow the fremen to attack far from their territory and fall back. This suited their playstyle and added to the immersion... but it got removed and the model was reused as an anti air unit. The military part of the game could be really interesting but gets ground down into a slog by the end game. Spamming operations and recycling units in and out of combat.
5:56 I've heard other people refer to these "other" elements as "board game" style video game genre elements, like Paradox's games which are based on board games, or Armello.
Most of the people who complain about the complexity aren’t going to be happy no matter what the studio does. Personally, I’ve enjoyed losing repeatedly while I learn how to survive the perils of Arrakis. I’ve got 14 hours in, won my first game as House Atreides on easy. Now I get to become proficient by winning on medium and hard. Then it’s on to master the other factions… My Arrakis…My Dune…
I would like to hear from those who have played the old Dune games going back to the 1980s and 1990s and see how they playstyle compares to Spice Wars.
I'm a huge Dune II goat but this is nothing like it, I'm still very hopeful though :D. What I like the most is the building and the trike units. i didn't spot them yet and thats a shame, also building your base (do you even have one?) and structures are absent imho. Like back in the days you had to play for an hour before you could build the biggest rocket radar mega station (e.g.) and you could destroy and enemy in 1 hit. Or you could make turrets to defend and protect your base. This was so much fun man, they NEED to implement it.
the spice tax is absurd. there should be some sort of advantage to having direct access to spice. You should be put in a position continually of having it as a win-button or paying your taxes. And then use some sort of formula to make it a calculation of your odds in advancing your faction or dealing with the penalties.
I have read some reviews and some of them seem to agree on the same things. I dont really agree with the negative arguments or the positive ones. This kinda confuses me. I would like to hear your actual review rather than a list of other peoples because it might be more thought out and well formulated
For the combat part, I am on a total opposite from the people who critisize that. I mean, combat is in literally almost every game, the center element of the game. I remember back in 2007 or so, when Spore came out, I loved the fact that you could win economically. It created a new way to expand, that is not centered around war. And I am also developping a game in that spirit. No war. Only economy and management.
It wouldn't hurt them to lean more into the RTS element. Giving units abilities or picking up weapons from fallen enemies, events that can drastically change the match. Dynamic economy and resource system based on who controls what nodes. Giving players more control over what resource other players get access to. Which would make players more active in the match. The game is good, I really enjoy it. They're trying something different, but the flow of the game is off imo. Feels too long for the options available. Games should really last around an hour.
I wouldn't say rts games necessarily have complex resources or economies. I think it depends on which game you're playing. Games such as Star Craft or Dawn of War 2 have dead simple gathering of resources and a pretty clear divide between the basic resource (minerals/ requisition) and the advanced one (power/ vespene). Then there are rts games with really complex resource systems, such as Supreme Commander or Age of Empires 2. As for where Spice Wars goes, from what I've seen it has a lot of political elements, such as the Landsraad voting and the spying. I wouldn't say it's in the same vein as Stellaris, or Paradox's historical games, since you can control units in battle, and the match length is much shorter. I think the indepth resources have some similarity to Age of Empires 2, though I could be wrong on that. In the end I think Shiro is carving out a niche for themselves that has elements of rts and grand strategy, in a sort of marriage of the tactical unit control of the former and the political elements of the latter. From what I've seen Northgard, their previous game had more in depth resource management and multiple victory conditions, but didn't have the major political aspects of Spice Wars. I think you may be confusing the theming of a game with the mechanics, when talking about how Civ is leading the historical games as opposed to 4x games. In my view a lot of the theming of Civ or an rts game can be lost before it starts to affect the mechanics. AoE for example has archers made out of what amounts to a shack, which can be placed halfway around the world from a village yet still pump out archers all day long. This isn't a bad thing, far from it, it allows the game designers to focus on fun gameplay, rather than historical detail that would require a huge amount of tutorials. I could easily see AoE given a fantasy coat of paint and the words changed around to take place in a fantasy world, or even sci fi. They made a Star Wars themed game, Galactic Battlegrounds in the same engine and aside from a few changes, like a nursery that you can garrison "sheep" in it plays pretty much the same. As for it not being like Dune 2, I'd have to say I like that it's different. It feels like Spice Wars is really taking risks with its mechanics and innovating. If we want to get into staying true to the past, then (from what I've read and heard about the books) Spice Wars is more faithful to them, with the political chicanery being just as, if not more important than the battlefield. The idea that you can't just win with boots on the ground, but have to put on a show for the people and get them to like you. Though I have heard the later books have the Fremen kick everybodys' asses cause Herbert thought a bunch of militarist desert dwellers could quickly overcome the soft Imperium. As for the idea that Spice Wars is loved by Dune fans and only Dune fans, I think a large part of this is the rather smug way some Dune fans talk about their favorite series. The idea that Dune is uber smart and teaches you all sorts of lessons for politics and climbing the societal ladder. Sort of like A Song of Ice and Fire fans, and how they can talk about how they learned so much from the books and their hard nosed realism. So I'd imagine there's an element of keeping the club exclusive when this game came out and writing off critics as "Just not smart enough" for the lofty heights of Dune. I find the game interesting and might get it, but I haven't been playing games as often right now. Also have you heard of the blog A Collection of Unmitigated Pedantry? They have a series on the Fremen and how they line up to IRL military powers, that you might be interested in. The articles are called: The Fremen Mirage.
I've only just started playing, but I'm pretty optimistic. Shiro games are pretty great at scrapping systems they don't like, tweaking here and there, and adding content they feel is needed. Been a fan of northgard for years because of this.
I was quite confused at the start with my first game as House Atredies ... but now after my 4 the game with these guys in green i love having votes and the influence with council ... I dont know the other factions yet but plan to try one after the other till i really know them all . ( multiplayer will be here soon ) .... i m seeing the weakness in Atredies but also the strengths adn i cant wait to try the other 3 ! i love this game . its just enough of a pace that its not ' hectic' but youve got to juggle a few balls in the air !!
Have you ever think that being a long-term fan to Dune games and books makes you less likely to enjoy the game? I haven't read the books, only watched the movies, and some youtube videos about the lore, and I enjoy this game so much.
I just don't see how in the midgame my AI Harkonnen had 16 units, every city with missile batteries, airports, and etc. with only 1 spice producing town. How does the AI afford all that? And he didn't pillage me either, I have my borders encircling his. Yet another game where "difficulty" is giving the AI buffs that would break your own economy if you were to do so.
I never played Stelleris but saw gameplay for it and that is far more complex than this. It does seems like they don't want to overwhelm the player keeping in some core elements the game some know but more user friendly for wider audience and if that is the case then I surely do appreciate that. It is matter learning that mechanic, enjoying obtaining profitable resources on dune and going from there I suppose. I am above all happy to see dune game released and surely hope see more dune themed type games going forward and hope other studios make them too.
stellaris is only super good after some dozen updates and half dozen DLCs, in true paradox fashion [and half dozen mods if that's to your taste] The original isn't bad, but it's not _that_ much better than this current early access.
I don't think you can actually understand the game fully after an hour and a half of gameplay... Let alone finish a single play through even in a limited capacity.. Just my opinion, I'm enjoying it so far
I never played Dune: Spice Wars, only found out about it recently. I've also never read or watched other materials about Dune, but I've watched a trailer of Emperor: Battle for Dune back when I played RA2 as a kid. And after playing the game, I really did enjoy it. When I discovered there are more Dune games being made, I wanted to check things out since I want to get into the series again. Except one is a Survival MMO and the other is more like the Civ games, nothing wrong with either though, just not my cup of tea.
I was about to buy it today, and the negative reviews on the front page put me off. there were just so many of them, and the ones that were actually saying the game is lacking, had so many good awards on them and people commenting to say they agreed. Made me think I'd wait till it was closer to finished.
I don't think there is that much 'hate' on this game at all. It's mostly just disgruntled fans of the old RTS games. Which is exactly why the devs pushed the whole "4X in real time" thing in the marketing. Calling this an RTS would set expectations. The game is starting off early access at 82% "Very Positive" on steam, with barely any notable bugs, and only minor frame drops. That's miles ahead of most early access games on steam.
Some are yes, their expectations for this were weird from the outset. You can tell from the screenshots and videos that this game is nothing like the old ones. Personally, I would’ve preferred a traditional RTS, but I picked it up knowing it wasn’t anyway. So criticism there is baffling. However there are some legitimate complaints and criticisms to how this plays, so it’s definitely not old fans being salty they didn’t get a C&C style game instead.
@@ULTRAWIDE. oh there's definitely legitimate critism as well, no game is ever perfect, but it is usually pretty easy to tell the difference between than and skewed expectations. :)
I think it’s a complex game that is EASIER for people who love the world of Dune to learn and stick with due to their loyalty to the narrative. That doesn’t mean it’s not good or interesting to players who’ve never read the book or watching any of the adaptations. It’s just more accessible to those who have.
I'm late to this conversation, and I've only beaten the game as Atreides, but I think this is the best RTS released in years. I can see myself playing this game a long time.
I will just say on difficulty, for my part I'm not really a 4x person, I've played HoI4 and some of the Civ's and they never really clicked and part of the reason was I kind of did find the 12 different kinds of resources and millions of charts thing intimidating. Being said I got the game yesterday and playing it for maybe an hour with a single let's play under my belt, difficulty on easy, and tutorial on, I find myself pretty much understanding the mechanics including the spying stuff. Obviously I now need to get better strategies and use that understanding to improve at the game, but as far as just knowing how to play it like I do say Starcraft (which I'm also terrible at), I think I'm there.
Im not a big fan of the Dune setting at all, but Shiro made really great games which all started in early acess and get supported for a long time. I love Northgard so much. Its Settlers in better with survival element. So can do coop, campagne or hardcore rts. Wartales is another very fun game of them. I will probaly try dune if its full released and on sale
I think the main thing most people who put a negative review where expecting a fast pace red alert or Dune kinda game. Personally I like the slow pace resource management side of it
thinks its not fair to compare this game to old dune2 game or dune 2000, because those latter game was basically command conquer reskin with dune theme. Probably why people liked it so much. however dune is not about combat but more into politics and strategy where war is an element to it
I think a lot of us just wanted a classic rts instead of the niche 4x rts, but we have to accept that sadly rts is almost dead, is too hard to develop(like balances, multiplayer, campaign, cinematics) and the fanbase is pretty picky, for a game of a frachise that is just reviving they needed a more safest choice to develop. I hope in the future we get a classic rts like dune battle for arrakis but shaming in this game just for that is not good for the franchise in any way.
Great video, that basically is the final convincing I needed to go and buy this game, although I don’t actually think you got everything right in your analysis (I for one, even without playing the game think it’s a mistake to use character models inspired by Villeneuve’s movie and at the same time mixing and matching the colors of their factions!). Anyway: do you have an affiliate link on Steam?
Fair enough friend! Personally I don’t connect with the colour sentiment, but I get why it would matter to many (part of the inspiration for this video). Nope, sadly no Steam affiliate links from me. I really appreciate you asking though!
I really like the gameplay and the tons of resources and stuff. I also don't think its too complex, its just a lot for someone to learn and feel like they know what they are doing in their first game. You have to put in a good 5 hours to feel like you know whats going on, maybe a little more. I really enjoy that as the Book felt exactly like that. The only thing is that its too slow for most players. The also thought it was too slow but changed my thinking. I instead framed it like a DND game. I'll happy play through an 8 hour session of DND.
i don’t have a proper setup to play Dune but i enjoyed it by just watching all these Dune YT videos reviews. i played the old Westwood Dune RTS and this new Dune i’ll buy it if i got a good setup.
Wait people think it’s too complicated? I never play 4x (though I play total war and SC2). I thought people thought it was too simple. I think it’s great!!
Bought the game last weekend and loving it! Not that it isnt in need of work, but for an EA title its nothing less then fantastic! Mostely im worried about balance, but with the various victory conditions, factions, research and such, if they can manage to make all of them useful and viable, it will be one of the most interesting strategy games to date!
wait, people think that Turn Based Strategy is also 4X Strategy? I've always been under the impression they are different and different from Real Time Strategy. TBS = Civilization style, RTS = C&C or Starcraft style, 4X = Strategy Games where you can change the speed and pause, Grand Strategy = Paradox games aka overly complex. Maybe im wrong or just old lol because i played these games when they first came out.
mmm the core of 4x is the 4 x's eXplore, eXpand, eXploit, eXterminate. competitives like SC2 and AoE don't quite fit the 4x bill because they're not really in that style [aoe and sc have a bit of exploring but SC2 especially is literally 'here's the map macro and murder'] whereas Civ to a degree and definitely stellaris/endless legends/endless space have all 4 x's in abundance. Grand strategy is more of a 'start from a set position, know a bunch of stuff already, declare set objectives and get there' with elements of 'super complex' afaik
I don't normally like 4x type games. Prefer total war and wargame series but this is a great game. It's made with passion for the source material. At times a bit complex but found your videos explain it well. Not sure what builds political points though and diplomacy.
I only know dune because i ve played a bit of the old game and i m a fan of Westwood RTS. When i saw the trailer for D:SW i saw it wasn't a classic Westwood RTS, seemed like a mix genre. I really enjoy dune so far. Find it sad that when companies tried to mix genre to make something great there is always the bunch that want the game to be only the genre they know. Complexity is what make RTS and 4X interesting to me. Saying it lack complexity? If we look at Northguard, multiplayer was an important aspect of the game. I think dune is meant to be playable in real time so you can't expect the Civilization level of complexity when it's not turn base. If you like simple game that you can win easily no sweat on the first try or you believe that dune should only be made as a reboot of the old games, this is not a game for you... doesn't make this game bad or controversial.
I AM a fan of the dune book (even tough i only read the first one, but that is the one everyone is usually talking about, when they talk about dune) And I really like this game. Part of it is surely just my love for this world. But I also think this game itself is quite nice. I do enjoy teh mix of rts and 4x, and i really like it, that there is more to the game than just military. I am struggling to manage the upkeep of my villages and my army in this harsh world, and sandworms and sandstorms kill more units of mine than any other faction. And politics in this game are more than just a little gimick, they actually decide the game. What I am personally missing is MORE DUNE. The world of Dune is weird. It is Sci-Fi without Aliens and highly advanced technology! I would love to see this game go more radical with the Dune books and less with common strategy game stuf - not only storywise, but also with the feeling. There is the harsh world and the politics, but i am missing more weirdness: I would like even more differences between the factions, Atreides and Harkonnen can be similar in a way, but Fremen should not interact with the politict, be more decentralised and be harder to track down. Why are there so many ranged units, when shields basically make them obsolete, where are the mentates and the bene geserit, and why do you only need spice to sell it? That stuff has crazy powers. It makes people see the future, fremen eat that stuff all day long and it makes all that Dune stuff (Mentates, bene gesserit, space travel, .... ) possible. I hope the game will get deeper in there and not become just another strategy game with its only special thing being the blend of rts and 4x. This could just become something vastly different and new - and with the possibility of mods it could just open up space for completely new types of games - now that's what I would call spicy!
So far everybody I follow has had mostly good things to say about it, if not praising it outright. Only reason I don't own it myself yet is because I am literally broke AF right now and have like a few slices of bread, some butter and one egg left to eat until tomorrow. At least I hope it's until tomorrow and not longer.
Critizism, no matter if valid or invalid, doesn't actually matter, as long as the game sells. And by the looks of the overall reviews, Spice Wars seems to hit the spot for most customers. Personally I am looking forward to it but I will give it a couple of more months to "smooth out" any rough edges. I have played Emperor and watched the recent movie. Not a huge fan of Dune in general (don't ask me about the lore too much) but I can relate to the setting, factions and characters. So I like it enough to be interested. Concerning "You can't play this if you are not into Dune." ... I don't know... seems strange to me: If I am into this kind of games, why do I need to restrain myself from buying it just because I don't know about Dune? On the contrary, maybe this is the entry point for many new fans who might pick up the books or at least watch one of the adaptations.
A have more then 20h in the game and at this moment it is very good. You have to take risk and trades of. In this manier is like MoM. Best think is it will be beter and larger😊
I think the sentiment of "you have to be a fan of Dune to enjoy this" is a little different from how you interpreted it. It's not "you won't understand this game if you haven't read the books"; rather, it is (correctly or not) "this game is not good enough to stand on its own, but if you're a fan of the setting then that might push it over the top for you." I haven't played enough to decide on whether that's a true statement, but I think that's what people are getting at when they say it.
Yeah I think it’s about understanding and connection. Understanding the world, the houses, the names - and connecting with them because you enjoyed them. This helps, according to that perspective, make the game worthwhile.
I personally think D:SW is a winner! See my video from yesterday unpacking what makes it a great strategy game: ua-cam.com/video/7376eMR88NM/v-deo.html
Same here.
Agree.. book vs new movie is silly arguments from people. No 4x, historic, or anything is going exact on history. Sure there is elements but it wouldn't be a game if it did exactly because there would be 0 choices.
The Atreides have ALWAYS been green, just as Frank Herbet wrote it! Really looking forward to playing this game, thank's for the coverage Jumbo!
Red and green. The Harkonnen are blue and orange.
@@Socialistsflyfree Leto is "The red duke".
Picked up my copy today, only played a few hours but so far I'm thoroughly enjoying the game and looking forward to see what they add.
It’s a very fun game, and because of early access, I think it’s pretty reasonably priced too!
@@JumboPixel I absolutely agree 👍 I look foward getting on too
I think part of the issue is that you can't recreate the old Dune RTS games while also being faithful to the books. I loved the old Dune games, but big old tank battles on Arrakis are not really a thing in the lore.
I can see that Spice Wars might disappoint people who are looking for something closer to the original games, but I also think Shiro made the right call by basing the game around the first book, as well as trying to do something new in terms of gameplay.
This game is very basic and boring.. the UI also kinda sucks ngl. It is hardly a 4x game... overall though the main issue is that its just so basic...
About being true to the books.. the smugglers... really..cant call them house of ordos.. lol
@@dislikecounter6392 Temple OS
And I'd be willing to bet that there'd be a bunch of people complaining if they tried to make it like Dune 2 since it would be way too similar to Command and Conquer (because Dune 2 was the originator of C&C-style RTS games).
Also, it's an outdated formula. I really don't get why people assumed that this is a continuation of the old Dune games. It's an RTS game that takes place in the Dune universe. There's literally no reason for it to be the same as the old ones.
@@dislikecounter6392 bruh - House Ordos doesn't exist as far as the books are concerned. it's entirely made up. So yeah, they are being true to the books by calling them the smugglers.
The best is when people say it’s not like the old Dune games…. did they not read or watch anything before buying it? 😂
I purposefully did not read or watch anything and bought it within the first thirty minutes of EA on Steam. I really like it.
Yes Chris. Yes indeed. I saw Dune and I was like. THATS AWSEOME and bought it. Big dissapoint for me when I found out it was a weak ANNO game.
Nah, best is when people cry about some minor things "BUT I WANT IT TO BE MORE LORE ACCURATE!"
And then say in the same sentence they want it to be like Dune 2000
"This is nothing like my beloved Cryo Dune from 1992! Why, it's not even a point-and-click adventure!"
No one played the old dune games. C&C made them obsolete. Tiberian Dawn improved all about Dune 2, and Dune 2000 was a remake of Dune 2 with Tiberian Dawn improvements. The other Dune games are adventure games nobody played and thats why Cryo Interactive (the developer of those games) went bankrupt.
I think the problem is (as you also pointed out) expectations. As an old fan of Dune II, Dune 2000 and Emperor: Battle for Dune I was immediately hyped when I heard of a new strategy game. Heck the games got me hooked back then and made me read the books and watch all the movies.
Upon reading that it's not a pure RTS (like Command & Conquer, Age of Empire, Starcraft, Warcraft etc) my excitement soon turned into slightly interested but a bit sceptical.
Obviously I would never blame the studio for obtaining the license and giving it their own spin and I am really glad they are doing something beautiful with it. Somehow though I still hold a decades long grudge with EA for buying Westwood Studios and ruining them and their franchises :O
I will definitely check out Spice Wars at some point, but I fear the genre mix might not be my cup of tea.
Thank you for your videos on it :)
It's funny. Even as a massive book fan I could never get into the West Wood games (Loved the cryo adventure strategy game though). I thought the knife fights in a sci-fi universe was a great and novel idea, and was sad to see that West Wood just had the same kind of rosters as their C&C games. All the things that make you less enthusiastic is precisely why I am psyched about Spice Wars.
But let's hope, that someone will make the rts game that you want as well!
RTS is a bit of a game developer trap imo, it's fine that they decided to make a stellaris dune in this day and age.
have you seen giant grant games's take on it? i'd certainly rather they make a stellaris dune than an AoE4 that flops.
As an old Command and Conquer fan (my first game was the N64 port) I hace to say Why?
C&C made Dune 2 obsolete, Dune 2000 was a remake of Dune 2, so basically a C&C with a Dune skin.
The games are as accurate as the horrible David Lynch movie, basically why would you like that?
Yeah that's more than fair, not sure how your opinion has changed since. I've been enjoying the game it's something different for sure has a lot of potential in the diplomacy side, looks great for multiplayer. But I get what you mean I can't help but hunger for a proper return-to-form RTS base building game. Been playing Dawn of War recently with the unification mod, it's awesome. But damn I want a new one.
it's early access, and looks very polished. There's stuff I want more off- and I hope replayability is improved, but there aren't many video games in the 3-4 hour range so this could be a major winner. Add more factions (maybe more than 2 more . . .), a bit more tech, units, buildings and maybe advisors (only a bit to keep this game still within the 4 hour range) and it's a slam dunk.
agreed. This game has tremendous potential to be a hit. I hope the updates/patches are rolled out frequently.
Could be a good game for speedruns then.
Just add the imperial faction and the possibility of hiring sardaukar units :-B
@@viarnay Imagine if the Sardaukar chant started playing when they started attacking! :-D
I love the old Dune games. But I also love the books and let's be honest here, this new one is a MUCH more accurate portrayal of the world of Dune. There is warfare in Dune (which the books don't depict very much, by the way, with the exception of Heretics), sure, but there's an equal amount of politics, plotting, scheming backstabbing and unstable alliances. Conflicts are almost never resolved by military might alone, there's always some clever tactics, politics, betrayal etc. involved and the battle is just a culmination of that. Which is exactly how this game approaches the setting. So I cringe a bit every time someone says how it's not "faithful to the lore" when by the lore they mean the old games. I even saw someone complaining that the Atreides colors shouldn't be green...and I was like "Stop dude...just stop..."
Only read the first dune book myself and I read more politics than warfare
And from the book reviews I've watch it also seems that way
So I also don't get that they are complaining about not faithful to the lore😂😂😂😂😂😂
I think one of the bigger reasons for the hate is that a lot of people these days and rightly so are very suspicious of and untrusting of early access games, since many of them never finish or just get abandoned. Dune: Spice wars though is fleshed out enough that it is mostly a finished game at it's current state and price. It also seems like it is getting the support it needs as well.
And it's from a reputable developer, Shiro games, who are known to support their games well even years after release (Northgard, which still gets support, and not only through dlc). It also shows they are implementing a bunch of innovations on the Northgard strategy formula, and it plays smoother than Northgard as well, so really it is a fine game as is. A lot of the hate is definitely not deserved
Gamer Zac ( don't think I spelled that right) said some companies are more honest with early access vs full release and Shiro games is one of the honest ones.
Before watching the video my theory:
People hate new things. They pretend they don't, but when there is something new they will always first hate on it.
@@jakobinobles3263 you forgot the most important part, the "I always knew it was going to be a great success and always loved it" part.
And the haters are always louder then the silent majority that just play the game
Honestly, “Stellaris focused on a single planet” is the kind of negative review that sells me on this game. The biggest problem with Stellaris is needing to make hundreds of planets unique and in the process making them generic; focusing all that on Arrakis means it’s allowed to have a spicy flavor.
I’ll miss the Ordos, but it’s not like they were canon. Pretend the smugglers are Ordos, they’re how they’d play in this kind of game anyway.
After putting in a couple dozen hours into the game, my observation is this: The AI pretty much screws the player in late game. All sides go after you, raids bypass other factions to raid your cities, the RNG on the fights can be sus at times.
last game i played my territory made physical contact with harkonnen and smugglers and the fuckers literally sent multiple combat units into the territory touching theirs. you could argue they signed a nonaggression pact or some sort of mechanical explanation of why this happened but without some measure of transparency the image is that of the ai constantly colluding in tandem to destroy the player when in fact the reality may truly be that there is background politicking that explains it but i don't want to hear that shit when i lose a base and my water production falls and triggers unrest in multiple bases. irritating!
@@copsuicide man, do I get where you're coming from! This is why i picked smugglers as my faction and just do the following steps:
1. keep my territories small to avoid dealing with Chungus McFungus, Ms. Gordon Freemen and Mr. Greenclad Chad III (using neutral territories as buffers)
2. Pillage and plunder said villages to keep my economy going
3. Build black markets on spice fields and water treatment plants to steal their "hard-earned" resources
4. Zerg rush
5. ???
6. Profit
Note: further game testing is required for this strat, but who knows? Maybe this could be the game's meta
I love the game but it really needs a fleshed out tutorial
I admit I'm uncertain about whether this game will click with me or not. I need to see much more coverage through let's plays and gameplay guides before I can make that decision. And besides, I'm already buried in heaps of strategy games to explore further (Old World, Distant Worlds 2, Humankind)
All that's to say that this indeed is a complex beast that is hard to pin down. If it was a game that fit the mold I would have already made my decision.
You have objectively bad taste.
@@MickeyMouse-bo6ug ok
I played Northgard for a short while, got bored pretty quick and found some design choices unusual
I normally don't buy early access games, but maybe ill buy it out of spite, read a lot of the negative reviews and found most of them to be very silly based off of playing a lot of Northgard and having watch a bunch of peoples LP and streams.
If you were ever to buy an early acces game, Shiro are probably the best developers to buy it from. They are one of the few developers that only start the early access when the game is actually fun. And if you don't like it, you should just refund it. 2 hours is long enough for this game, as the loop is the same, it just gets more complex in the late game.
Been playing this game for a week straight. The empire building part is a gem, very enjoyable. Unfortunatelly the battles become huge bore after a while.
This is how battles work. You get units with specific buffs to other units (like a unit gives 5% more attack to other units shooting at the same target). So your job is to mix and match these units to buff each other. Once you get the hang of it, then you run around always having the same army composition, kicking ass everywhere you find it.
I am old school Westwood Studios fan! I don't believe in trade or negotiations. Even the Battles in Dune Spice War are awfully boring! I believe in going to War directly! Glyph Worlds has made a similar Dune RTS game called Barkhan! Looking forward to it!
@@KS-fg2ws why did you just copy paste one of your comments into a reply section?
See, I can relate to the old Dune players because I started playing Dune 2000 on PC back when I was a child.. It had a very Command and Conquer feel to it. The original House setup from that game was House of Atreides, House of Harkonnen, and House of Ordos. When I saw this version of Dune, I became aware that I'd probably have to watch the movie first, since there is no campaign mode with cut scenes and all (which may change upon official release). I was kind of bummed because although Atreides and Harkonnen were badass in the old game, so was Ordos. I would've loved to see what the House of Ordos would've looked like in this version of release. But really, you could check the fan-wiki site and see there were much more houses than just those. I wonder if the developers plan on adding houses as the game progresses. That would be interesting to watch.
My units keep freezing. Load a save game and none of the units are able to move. Or be selected. Basically way too early to pkay
I am old school Westwood Studios fan! I don't believe in trade or negotiations. Even the Battles in Dune Spice War are awfully boring! I believe in going to War directly! Glyph Worlds has made a similar Dune RTS game called Barkhan! Looking forward to it!
Dude, the whole reason why i play strategy games is having to manage alot of shit simultaneously, i like having stress in rts's.
Right? what's the point if your human brain is capable of managing everything perfectly?
@@seasand6705 for example, i really enjoy the moments when the enemy breaks theough my lines in coh 1 amd hoi4 , the rush rhat goes through you at that moment is amazing. Thats also why i play rally sims and not track sims
Northgard is the opposite of hardcore. I don't mean it disparagingly but it's a nice chill, slow game.
That true but multyplayer isnt chill at all 😅
I think it's pretty good. A short form 4x game with good mechanics and distinct play styles for each of the factions. Can't wait for it to get a full release and we start seeing DLC houses
I played about 5hrs yesterday, and found the game well rounded, and has tons of meat to strategize with (meaning replay ability is already there)…. Looking forward to watching this game evolve. It’s a solidly positive start.
They...don't?
Those who do were expecting Dune 2000
Yes... was hoping to see the devastator tank ;_;
Pretty well polished early access release all things considered. I can see RTS only folks not enjoying it especially if they expected this to be like the previous two dune games.
Previous 4 games (at least and there might be more I'm forgetting)
That's the thing. It IS an RTS in every sense of the term, just like Distant Worlds 2 is, or Stellaris is. To me, this plays much like Sins of a Solar Empire. In fact, I'd say this is almost the perfect format for 4x games. Imagine it they'd used this RTS style for Gladius...
As a base game, this game is great already. I can't wait to see what the future holds.
And i played Dune in 2001.
As someone who both enjoyed the books AND grew up with the old games I can tell you very much that Dune is not about all out war. It is certainly there, but not what it is about. Dune is about greasy nitty gritty politics, promises and lies, deception and assassination. Honestly I think this game needs to do more of that, similar to how the Dune board game does, encouraging you to make promises, offers, and treaties, all while crossing your fingers behind your back and getting your knife ready, fully knowing your "ally" is doing the same. That is what I would love to see from this game.
GoT is Dune in a LOTR setting.
Dune is all about politics. The Spice is Oil, Dune is the middle east, Paul is a mix of Nixon and Kennedy and God Emperor of Dune is a criticism on Comunism. Race, Gender, etc. All is built into Dune in a way that shows how nothing is what It seem like. I was blown away when they implied Atreides were actually not that good (using propaganda to portray them as good rulers while exploiting the land, House Atreides is basically House Manifest Destiny!) And then at the end the Evil Harkonen and the Atreides were basically the same family. Quite a hot take during the cold war.
I think that this game is a fantastic blend of turn based 4x grand campaign style games and RTS games. This is the progress and innovation that the strategy/RTS games needs. When you engage in every aspect of the game and use all of your tools and strengths you can win. I think that people who don't like it either couldn't do that or they didn't play long enough to discovery and use all the tools at their disposal.
Highly agreed!
Overall, I'm really liking this blend of RTS with 4X. However, I really really do hope that Shiro games expands and continues working and honing and adding to this base foundation.
1) DEEPER MILITARY: My number #1 complaint (granted as a Emperor: Battle for Dune fan) is that MILITARY limitation to ONLY effectively INFANTRY troops only. I'd like to see some TANKS, ARTILLERY and AIRCRAFT incorporated and added onto the military roster.
For example: Similar to the Missile Turret site positioning that can sometimes cover 2 villages, then with a slow but long-range Artillery military unit placement can strike or defend 2 villages and has to be placed on rock outcroppings.
Tanks and Artillery would need larger battle-spaces so rock outcroppings need to increase in the map generation. More on that later in the MAP and REGION generation points #5 and #6.
Also, units to cost less command and there to be much higher command.
I don't like that most of my villages are only defended my milita. Very tough to have a defensive and an offensive force. All ends up being is one big ball of infantry moving across the map slowly, with no meta way currently to have ACTUAL multiple fronts... it's just one slow-moving boring front... and any other front where other factions are pushing you, you auto-lose because militia suck. This problem would exacerbate especially if there are more factions added down the line, adding more venues/theaters/regions to be raided and invaded from.
2) FIX airports.
I dunno, currently with how small the radius is (even with upgrades), these do NOT justify their costs.
Either significantly increase the default and upgraded ranges.
Or
Change how they operate.
By reading the tooltips, I thought that any regions with an Airport would be able to instantly travel via its shuttles.
This way, I could be strategic and put one airport by a village closest to my ORIGIN CITY and then another Airport to the eastern frontline. Then, any new troops could (for fee and cooldown) use this airport to travel to my eastern front village.
However, this was not possible to do in the current build. The most my unit could travel is just really just a SINGLE village away...
Airports should allow you to move 3-5 villages/regions away. Fine, maybe not 10 or more. But 1-3 villages distance is WAY too little.
3) EXPANDED BUILDINGS META
At 500, all 5 slots filled, a village should be able to upgrade to a City, with at least half the districts as the ORIGIN city.
Reward for developing a village fully.
In special regions, for example where a Sietch would provide 100% maintenance for all buildings and where there is a unique resource (spice, metals, rare minerals), then that region would take priority over a region with no sietch or unique resources.
Limit the # of cities and cap them fine.
However, the current ONLY single ORIGIN or starting City with development/districts feels VERY not 4X to me.
4) MORE FACTIONS! Just 4 is waay too limiting. Either for free or via DLC, I'd LOVE to see the following: House Corrino, House Ix, Bene Tleilax, Bene Gesserit, Sardaukar.
And even though the following factions are already included in the Espionage screen, I'd still be excited to play the following: The Spacing Guild, CHOAM, and Landsraad.
5) MORE MAP GENERATION toggles/settings.
For example: What if I want an almost sand-less but craggy, more Sahara-like Arrakis? This way, the worms are almost not a threat, but instead storms and earthquakes or lava are.
Also, this rock-outcropping 90% map or High on "buildable" and "worm-safe" terrain would open up more epic battles with heavier MILITARY like vehicles/tanks and artillery.
Or opposite: Make the sand most of the world and really punish the players, almost survival game mode type.
6) MORE UNIQUE REGIONAL effects
All games so far has this POLAR ICE CAP right in the MIDDLE of the map ALL THE TIME which basically the ownership of takes care of ALL of your water problems for the playthrough and gives you 1K hegemony.
Compared to other regions, this region is too powerful. I think it needs to be scaled back, like to something 25-33% of itself but have 3-4 more of these sprinkled throughout the map. So yes, a single faction may eventually control ALL 3-4 of such polar caps but not just ONE single faction steamrolls then hard.
That's it for now. I'll add to this review, as I play more and patches come in.
Oh, I don't think there are too many resources to manage. I just want more control/settings/deeper gameplay, especially for end-game.
Over 'n out!
~TK
I do not know what you are doing wrong but you can travel from any airfield to any airfield regardless of distance. The ring just says the range in which armies need to be in order to transport. Also they have said there will be one new faction during EA and another one on full release at minimum. I agree with the armies though. I want tanks so much. I will also add that I feel like rebellions should have to fight the garrisoned militia and not instantly take over the village.
@@Apollysis Oh snap! I think I'm using it wrong then lol ... then they didn't make the UI or flow intuitive enough, or I'm just slow.
And totally agree with you that when rebellion breaks out, the NEW rebels should be fighting EXISTING MILITIA of the town. I mean we paid for and trained and support them, so there's little reason why these loyal militias would just vanish or switch sides so easily without a fight or consequence.
Yeah, I REALLY want tanks, artillery and especially aircraft so much. Very pissed that the Ornithopter is relegated to only a scout role.
This would open up new meta openings!
For example: let's say I opt to rush Airport and get 1-2 Attack Ornithopters out. To do so, I need more Fuel earlier on than usual. So I may opt for the Fuel village over a RareEarth or Metals village to support that opening.
Yet, what I GAIN is that I can then use my Attack Ornithopters to harass, kill crew of the enemy Harvesters, or later in-game with rocket upgrades to the Attack Ornithopters and greater numbers, to completely snipe and deny Spice/Solari to enemy factions.
They said this game was gonna be more based off the books, so I don’t think they’ll ever add more polar caps. And they won’t add non flying artillery likely because of that because ground vehicles are easily suceptible to worms
@@DeadHatzGuy While that's true that ground vehicles are easily susceptible, but only if they're like stationary and don't move off the sand at all. I mean they got it right or I liked how it was in Emperor: Battle for Dune. For example, while the Harkonenn had the Devastator powerful tank kinda like Red Alert 2 Soviet Armageddon tank.. what I liked is that the Ordos main vehicle unit was a long-range artillery. And such a long-range artillery can be very fun and meta way to use in Dune: Spice Wars, to reward players who exploit the randomly generated geography of able to attack/defend 2 or even 3 villages from some randomly generated outcroppings. Perhaps, such late-game unique unit artillery can be lifted off with Carryalls, and such the need for Airport and similar buildings is increased. Of course, I'd actually be against House Ordos because they're non-canon, but Bene Tleilaxu are actually very similar.
This game has more in common with the 80s Dune board game (which I own the recent remake of) rather than the old Dune RTS games. I have played it for about 10 hours and I like it so far.
I think it could be a 4x because you Explore, you Exploit resources (Like spice), you expand (peaceful or by force), And you exterminate (unless your Atreides and you peacefully annex everything).
Yeah got my copy the day it came out. It's an 8/10 and just needs some polish but that's normal and one of the best early access games I've played in a while. Haven't had any bug problems and the art style is wonderful. No complaints from me
people hate dune spice wars? i had no idea
"Is Dune Spice Wars a 4x game?"
Interrupted by ad that starts with someone saying, "YEAHHHH!"
Well, the ads have spoken!
Can you control game/movement speed?
It's definitely a 4X game, you explore, you expand, you exploit and then you exterminate. That's the core loop and it's deep in the DNA of this game, an all other contenders including Stellaris, Civ, Endless Legends/Endless Space share this same vibe.
Arguing about the definition kind of misses the point, when people are upset that it's "not a TRUE 4x game" they're actually just upset that it's missing whatever thing they feel is EsSEnNtiAL to the 4X experience. Any new interpretations of the genre will rebalance the four phases - for example Stellaris keeps the exploration vibe going way until midgame, while the civ games feel like exploration is rather barebones - plop down a couple cities and then exploration boils down to hitting auto explore and forgetting about the scout until a barbarian bitchslaps it.
Anyway, people are entitled to their opinion, but it's a useless one - the important part isn't that "this is/is not a 4X game" the important thing to focus on is "I don't like that it's real time" or "I think the expansion phase is too slow". But people get very caught up in arguing about "and so IT IS NOT 4X" rather than realizing they're simply stating their preference.
To be fair, technically using that definition every RTS like Warcraft or StarCraft is a 4X game. 4X normally is turn based and more strategy based, though this I do think kind of blends the line between RTS and 4X really well.
@@nevermore7285 there's zero exploration component in classic RTS games, and expansion is completely optional in a lot of very viable strategies, if we're being technical 😉
I'm old enough to have played Dune 2k when it came out.
This game isn't anything like that, and for those of us who played at least that one, this one is a bit disorienting if you expect a similar game coming in.
Still, I'm enjoying the exploration aspect.
I agree with the "overly complicated" criticism, but I'm still going to try to parse through it and enjoy it. Your tutorials are helpful. Thank you!
It is a 4X though...
for the claim of is it a 4x id say this,
is there exploration? yes you have to explore the map, survey point on it and find special properties of the locations
is there expansion? yes you have to take control of ares of the map by capturing settlement across it
is there exploitation? yes after expanding to a new area you will build building to exploit the resourses of that locations be it metal, water, fuel or manpower.
is there extermination? yes you exterminate the local milita first and after that you enemies thrue many different way.
now i will say its not a traditional turnbased 4x game, but a 4x game it is.
and for the rts side
is it real time? yes
is it a strategy game? yes
now is a traditional rts like company of heroes or dawn of war? no but it can be called a rts.
Yeah and that’s kind of the point in trying to get across too - it incorporates it all (and I’d also add survival/ base building elements as a third subgenre)
I played all Westwood Dune games, and this looks more like a real time Civilisation game on Arrakis.
I rarely buy games in early access, so i'll wait .
Haven’t seen the movie or read the book, but I still got this game and I’m having a blast. Also It’s already had 4 patches. That’s pretty cool ngl
I have played 5 games of it so far, and every time, I have resigned. Not because the AI beat me, but because I could not control the crazy upkeep. I thought I just had to "get good" (I am playing Elden Ring, so I am very experienced now with losing and retrying); I thought I just had to learn the mechanics better (the tutorial is just awful and really lacking), but I just could not overcome the mechanics themselves. For just one example: Most everything you build costs plascrete, and also can have a Plascrete upkeep, but it costs plascrete to build plascrete factories; and it cost plascrete to clear out space to build plascrete factories so you can make plascrete. It's just an over complex upkeep system that can put you in a economic death spiral with no way out.
Build the structure that reduces upkeep for neighbouring sectors, find areas with the 50% plascrete production and just keep on adding plascrete production in each city if need be, just be mindful of what you build and the buildings upkeep and you should be fine
you just need to slow down a little on expansion. don't just grab every village you see in the beginning, and look at the upkeep costs for each thing you build. IE the recuirtment center is super expensive. Also keep an eye on council resolutions there is a nasty +30% plascrete upkeep one. To start you should pick up your first spice place, and then find a plascreate area.
sooo it´s a mechanic fighting with the upkeep, got it. Though at first i got some traumatriggers for the true classic "colonization" where the economics getting "bad" kinda was the end game that forced you to break away from your European ruler and start you war for independence (taxes on the sellable resources getting high and/or you blocking em out to avoid that)
'Why do people-' yeah that's an issue right there. It should be why do SOME PEOPLE. Otherwise you paint a very different narrative. you mention it is getting great reviews and such... so why talk like 'everyone hates it' to begin with?
Also - Game is like stellaris! too many resources!
One of the most inconsequential and yet infuriating argument against the game is that House Atreides “should be blue” meanwhile the house banner is actually green and black. Dune: Spice Wars gets the colors right. If you’re gonna bring up color arguments at least get it right >:(
No, in the lore, Atreides wear green.
@@ugljen ah, house color/uniform is interchangeable in my mind but technically I think your right
@@ugljen and the banner is black and green.
People should compare it to Sins of a Solar Empire instead of stellaris. This game crosses also the barrier of 4x and real time very similar to dune. It is one of my favorite games and I hope dune will go into that direction. sins of a solar empire has a more detailed combat system and has a great zoom in function to have smaller but larger armies that can only be seen in detail after zooming in, I think the small dune armies are limiting the combat tactics a lot... I liked my first playthroughs of this game, but indeed some elements need refining (combat, research, the worm/arakis, midgame pacing, graphics)
It has potential, but lacks military content. It needs more variety of units, vehicles, systems etc. They recently removed a fremen unit for example that allowed the player to set up a temporary supply base to allow the fremen to attack far from their territory and fall back. This suited their playstyle and added to the immersion... but it got removed and the model was reused as an anti air unit. The military part of the game could be really interesting but gets ground down into a slog by the end game. Spamming operations and recycling units in and out of combat.
5:56 I've heard other people refer to these "other" elements as "board game" style video game genre elements, like Paradox's games which are based on board games, or Armello.
Most of the people who complain about the complexity aren’t going to be happy no matter what the studio does. Personally, I’ve enjoyed losing repeatedly while I learn how to survive the perils of Arrakis. I’ve got 14 hours in, won my first game as House Atreides on easy. Now I get to become proficient by winning on medium and hard. Then it’s on to master the other factions…
My Arrakis…My Dune…
I would like to hear from those who have played the old Dune games going back to the 1980s and 1990s and see how they playstyle compares to Spice Wars.
I'm a huge Dune II goat but this is nothing like it, I'm still very hopeful though :D. What I like the most is the building and the trike units. i didn't spot them yet and thats a shame, also building your base (do you even have one?) and structures are absent imho. Like back in the days you had to play for an hour before you could build the biggest rocket radar mega station (e.g.) and you could destroy and enemy in 1 hit. Or you could make turrets to defend and protect your base. This was so much fun man, they NEED to implement it.
the spice tax is absurd. there should be some sort of advantage to having direct access to spice. You should be put in a position continually of having it as a win-button or paying your taxes. And then use some sort of formula to make it a calculation of your odds in advancing your faction or dealing with the penalties.
I have read some reviews and some of them seem to agree on the same things. I dont really agree with the negative arguments or the positive ones. This kinda confuses me. I would like to hear your actual review rather than a list of other peoples because it might be more thought out and well formulated
Those reviews I mention is both individual people and game journalists like IGN etc.
This streamer did do his own review of this game just a couple of days ago. Search his name + Dune Spice Wars, and you'll find it.
For the combat part, I am on a total opposite from the people who critisize that.
I mean, combat is in literally almost every game, the center element of the game.
I remember back in 2007 or so, when Spore came out, I loved the fact that you could win economically. It created a new way to expand, that is not centered around war.
And I am also developping a game in that spirit. No war. Only economy and management.
It wouldn't hurt them to lean more into the RTS element. Giving units abilities or picking up weapons from fallen enemies, events that can drastically change the match. Dynamic economy and resource system based on who controls what nodes. Giving players more control over what resource other players get access to. Which would make players more active in the match.
The game is good, I really enjoy it. They're trying something different, but the flow of the game is off imo. Feels too long for the options available. Games should really last around an hour.
I wouldn't say rts games necessarily have complex resources or economies. I think it depends on which game you're playing. Games such as Star Craft or Dawn of War 2 have dead simple gathering of resources and a pretty clear divide between the basic resource (minerals/ requisition) and the advanced one (power/ vespene). Then there are rts games with really complex resource systems, such as Supreme Commander or Age of Empires 2.
As for where Spice Wars goes, from what I've seen it has a lot of political elements, such as the Landsraad voting and the spying. I wouldn't say it's in the same vein as Stellaris, or Paradox's historical games, since you can control units in battle, and the match length is much shorter. I think the indepth resources have some similarity to Age of Empires 2, though I could be wrong on that. In the end I think Shiro is carving out a niche for themselves that has elements of rts and grand strategy, in a sort of marriage of the tactical unit control of the former and the political elements of the latter. From what I've seen Northgard, their previous game had more in depth resource management and multiple victory conditions, but didn't have the major political aspects of Spice Wars.
I think you may be confusing the theming of a game with the mechanics, when talking about how Civ is leading the historical games as opposed to 4x games. In my view a lot of the theming of Civ or an rts game can be lost before it starts to affect the mechanics. AoE for example has archers made out of what amounts to a shack, which can be placed halfway around the world from a village yet still pump out archers all day long. This isn't a bad thing, far from it, it allows the game designers to focus on fun gameplay, rather than historical detail that would require a huge amount of tutorials. I could easily see AoE given a fantasy coat of paint and the words changed around to take place in a fantasy world, or even sci fi. They made a Star Wars themed game, Galactic Battlegrounds in the same engine and aside from a few changes, like a nursery that you can garrison "sheep" in it plays pretty much the same.
As for it not being like Dune 2, I'd have to say I like that it's different. It feels like Spice Wars is really taking risks with its mechanics and innovating. If we want to get into staying true to the past, then (from what I've read and heard about the books) Spice Wars is more faithful to them, with the political chicanery being just as, if not more important than the battlefield. The idea that you can't just win with boots on the ground, but have to put on a show for the people and get them to like you. Though I have heard the later books have the Fremen kick everybodys' asses cause Herbert thought a bunch of militarist desert dwellers could quickly overcome the soft Imperium.
As for the idea that Spice Wars is loved by Dune fans and only Dune fans, I think a large part of this is the rather smug way some Dune fans talk about their favorite series. The idea that Dune is uber smart and teaches you all sorts of lessons for politics and climbing the societal ladder. Sort of like A Song of Ice and Fire fans, and how they can talk about how they learned so much from the books and their hard nosed realism. So I'd imagine there's an element of keeping the club exclusive when this game came out and writing off critics as "Just not smart enough" for the lofty heights of Dune.
I find the game interesting and might get it, but I haven't been playing games as often right now. Also have you heard of the blog A Collection of Unmitigated Pedantry? They have a series on the Fremen and how they line up to IRL military powers, that you might be interested in. The articles are called: The Fremen Mirage.
I've only just started playing, but I'm pretty optimistic. Shiro games are pretty great at scrapping systems they don't like, tweaking here and there, and adding content they feel is needed. Been a fan of northgard for years because of this.
I was quite confused at the start with my first game as House Atredies ... but now after my 4 the game with these guys in green i love having votes and the influence with council ... I dont know the other factions yet but plan to try one after the other till i really know them all . ( multiplayer will be here soon ) .... i m seeing the weakness in Atredies but also the strengths adn i cant wait to try the other 3 ! i love this game . its just enough of a pace that its not ' hectic' but youve got to juggle a few balls in the air !!
Have you ever think that being a long-term fan to Dune games and books makes you less likely to enjoy the game? I haven't read the books, only watched the movies, and some youtube videos about the lore, and I enjoy this game so much.
I just don't see how in the midgame my AI Harkonnen had 16 units, every city with missile batteries, airports, and etc. with only 1 spice producing town. How does the AI afford all that? And he didn't pillage me either, I have my borders encircling his. Yet another game where "difficulty" is giving the AI buffs that would break your own economy if you were to do so.
have to say one of the best early access i've played in a while and the rts 4x works perfectly with dune imo
I never played Stelleris but saw gameplay for it and that is far more complex than this.
It does seems like they don't want to overwhelm the player keeping in some core elements the game some know but more user friendly for wider audience and if that is the case then I surely do appreciate that.
It is matter learning that mechanic, enjoying obtaining profitable resources on dune and going from there I suppose.
I am above all happy to see dune game released and surely hope see more dune themed type games
going forward and hope other studios make them too.
I'm a huge fan of Dune and its universe, but let me tell you Stellaris is infinitely better than this game. They do not even compare tbh.
stellaris is only super good after some dozen updates and half dozen DLCs, in true paradox fashion [and half dozen mods if that's to your taste]
The original isn't bad, but it's not _that_ much better than this current early access.
I don't think you can actually understand the game fully after an hour and a half of gameplay... Let alone finish a single play through even in a limited capacity.. Just my opinion, I'm enjoying it so far
I don't think being turn based is a requirement to be a 4X game. Stellaris is undoubtedly a 4X game and it is real time.
I never played Dune: Spice Wars, only found out about it recently. I've also never read or watched other materials about Dune, but I've watched a trailer of Emperor: Battle for Dune back when I played RA2 as a kid. And after playing the game, I really did enjoy it. When I discovered there are more Dune games being made, I wanted to check things out since I want to get into the series again. Except one is a Survival MMO and the other is more like the Civ games, nothing wrong with either though, just not my cup of tea.
I was about to buy it today, and the negative reviews on the front page put me off. there were just so many of them, and the ones that were actually saying the game is lacking, had so many good awards on them and people commenting to say they agreed. Made me think I'd wait till it was closer to finished.
I don't think there is that much 'hate' on this game at all. It's mostly just disgruntled fans of the old RTS games. Which is exactly why the devs pushed the whole "4X in real time" thing in the marketing. Calling this an RTS would set expectations.
The game is starting off early access at 82% "Very Positive" on steam, with barely any notable bugs, and only minor frame drops. That's miles ahead of most early access games on steam.
Some are yes, their expectations for this were weird from the outset. You can tell from the screenshots and videos that this game is nothing like the old ones. Personally, I would’ve preferred a traditional RTS, but I picked it up knowing it wasn’t anyway. So criticism there is baffling. However there are some legitimate complaints and criticisms to how this plays, so it’s definitely not old fans being salty they didn’t get a C&C style game instead.
@@ULTRAWIDE. oh there's definitely legitimate critism as well, no game is ever perfect, but it is usually pretty easy to tell the difference between than and skewed expectations. :)
I like it. Short and simple, but with interesting systems that interact interestingly.
I think it’s a complex game that is EASIER for people who love the world of Dune to learn and stick with due to their loyalty to the narrative. That doesn’t mean it’s not good or interesting to players who’ve never read the book or watching any of the adaptations. It’s just more accessible to those who have.
I'm late to this conversation, and I've only beaten the game as Atreides, but I think this is the best RTS released in years. I can see myself playing this game a long time.
I will just say on difficulty, for my part I'm not really a 4x person, I've played HoI4 and some of the Civ's and they never really clicked and part of the reason was I kind of did find the 12 different kinds of resources and millions of charts thing intimidating. Being said I got the game yesterday and playing it for maybe an hour with a single let's play under my belt, difficulty on easy, and tutorial on, I find myself pretty much understanding the mechanics including the spying stuff. Obviously I now need to get better strategies and use that understanding to improve at the game, but as far as just knowing how to play it like I do say Starcraft (which I'm also terrible at), I think I'm there.
We have to keep in mind that it’s on early access and new content is currently being worked on
Im not a big fan of the Dune setting at all, but Shiro made really great games which all started in early acess and get supported for a long time. I love Northgard so much. Its Settlers in better with survival element. So can do coop, campagne or hardcore rts. Wartales is another very fun game of them.
I will probaly try dune if its full released and on sale
why would people compare this to stelaris and not to Sins of the Solar empire (superior game in my opinion) it has far more in common with SOSE
I think the main thing most people who put a negative review where expecting a fast pace red alert or Dune kinda game. Personally I like the slow pace resource management side of it
It reminds me a lot of Sins of a Solar Empire, a I alone ?
Does it play like Northgard? I *love* Northgard.
It is a 4X RTS. Some people don't know, what that means...
thinks its not fair to compare this game to old dune2 game or dune 2000, because those latter game was basically command conquer reskin with dune theme. Probably why people liked it so much.
however dune is not about combat but more into politics and strategy where war is an element to it
I think a lot of us just wanted a classic rts instead of the niche 4x rts, but we have to accept that sadly rts is almost dead, is too hard to develop(like balances, multiplayer, campaign, cinematics) and the fanbase is pretty picky, for a game of a frachise that is just reviving they needed a more safest choice to develop. I hope in the future we get a classic rts like dune battle for arrakis but shaming in this game just for that is not good for the franchise in any way.
Great video, that basically is the final convincing I needed to go and buy this game, although I don’t actually think you got everything right in your analysis (I for one, even without playing the game think it’s a mistake to use character models inspired by Villeneuve’s movie and at the same time mixing and matching the colors of their factions!).
Anyway: do you have an affiliate link on Steam?
Fair enough friend! Personally I don’t connect with the colour sentiment, but I get why it would matter to many (part of the inspiration for this video).
Nope, sadly no Steam affiliate links from me. I really appreciate you asking though!
Wait people hate it? i see lot of people praise the game cuz it polish even in early access
I really like the gameplay and the tons of resources and stuff. I also don't think its too complex, its just a lot for someone to learn and feel like they know what they are doing in their first game. You have to put in a good 5 hours to feel like you know whats going on, maybe a little more. I really enjoy that as the Book felt exactly like that. The only thing is that its too slow for most players. The also thought it was too slow but changed my thinking. I instead framed it like a DND game. I'll happy play through an 8 hour session of DND.
i don’t have a proper setup to play Dune but i enjoyed it by just watching all these Dune YT videos reviews. i played the old Westwood Dune RTS and this new Dune i’ll buy it if i got a good setup.
Wait people think it’s too complicated? I never play 4x (though I play total war and SC2). I thought people thought it was too simple.
I think it’s great!!
Bought the game last weekend and loving it! Not that it isnt in need of work, but for an EA title its nothing less then fantastic!
Mostely im worried about balance, but with the various victory conditions, factions, research and such, if they can manage to make all of them useful and viable, it will be one of the most interesting strategy games to date!
wait, people think that Turn Based Strategy is also 4X Strategy? I've always been under the impression they are different and different from Real Time Strategy. TBS = Civilization style, RTS = C&C or Starcraft style, 4X = Strategy Games where you can change the speed and pause, Grand Strategy = Paradox games aka overly complex. Maybe im wrong or just old lol because i played these games when they first came out.
mmm the core of 4x is the 4 x's
eXplore, eXpand, eXploit, eXterminate.
competitives like SC2 and AoE don't quite fit the 4x bill because they're not really in that style [aoe and sc have a bit of exploring but SC2 especially is literally 'here's the map macro and murder']
whereas Civ to a degree and definitely stellaris/endless legends/endless space have all 4 x's in abundance.
Grand strategy is more of a 'start from a set position, know a bunch of stuff already, declare set objectives and get there' with elements of 'super complex' afaik
I don't normally like 4x type games. Prefer total war and wargame series but this is a great game. It's made with passion for the source material. At times a bit complex but found your videos explain it well. Not sure what builds political points though and diplomacy.
i have the game, kinda okay but I am not getting into it much (not really a fan of the universe but got it cuz 4x)
I only know dune because i ve played a bit of the old game and i m a fan of Westwood RTS. When i saw the trailer for D:SW i saw it wasn't a classic Westwood RTS, seemed like a mix genre. I really enjoy dune so far. Find it sad that when companies tried to mix genre to make something great there is always the bunch that want the game to be only the genre they know. Complexity is what make RTS and 4X interesting to me. Saying it lack complexity? If we look at Northguard, multiplayer was an important aspect of the game. I think dune is meant to be playable in real time so you can't expect the Civilization level of complexity when it's not turn base. If you like simple game that you can win easily no sweat on the first try or you believe that dune should only be made as a reboot of the old games, this is not a game for you... doesn't make this game bad or controversial.
I AM a fan of the dune book (even tough i only read the first one, but that is the one everyone is usually talking about, when they talk about dune)
And I really like this game. Part of it is surely just my love for this world. But I also think this game itself is quite nice. I do enjoy teh mix of rts and 4x, and i really like it, that there is more to the game than just military. I am struggling to manage the upkeep of my villages and my army in this harsh world, and sandworms and sandstorms kill more units of mine than any other faction. And politics in this game are more than just a little gimick, they actually decide the game.
What I am personally missing is MORE DUNE. The world of Dune is weird. It is Sci-Fi without Aliens and highly advanced technology!
I would love to see this game go more radical with the Dune books and less with common strategy game stuf - not only storywise, but also with the feeling. There is the harsh world and the politics, but i am missing more weirdness: I would like even more differences between the factions, Atreides and Harkonnen can be similar in a way, but Fremen should not interact with the politict, be more decentralised and be harder to track down. Why are there so many ranged units, when shields basically make them obsolete, where are the mentates and the bene geserit, and why do you only need spice to sell it? That stuff has crazy powers. It makes people see the future, fremen eat that stuff all day long and it makes all that Dune stuff (Mentates, bene gesserit, space travel, .... ) possible.
I hope the game will get deeper in there and not become just another strategy game with its only special thing being the blend of rts and 4x. This could just become something vastly different and new - and with the possibility of mods it could just open up space for completely new types of games - now that's what I would call spicy!
So far everybody I follow has had mostly good things to say about it, if not praising it outright.
Only reason I don't own it myself yet is because I am literally broke AF right now and have like a few slices of bread, some butter and one egg left to eat until tomorrow.
At least I hope it's until tomorrow and not longer.
Not a real dune game until you can crush your little brother in pvp.
Critizism, no matter if valid or invalid, doesn't actually matter, as long as the game sells. And by the looks of the overall reviews, Spice Wars seems to hit the spot for most customers. Personally I am looking forward to it but I will give it a couple of more months to "smooth out" any rough edges. I have played Emperor and watched the recent movie. Not a huge fan of Dune in general (don't ask me about the lore too much) but I can relate to the setting, factions and characters. So I like it enough to be interested.
Concerning "You can't play this if you are not into Dune." ... I don't know... seems strange to me: If I am into this kind of games, why do I need to restrain myself from buying it just because I don't know about Dune? On the contrary, maybe this is the entry point for many new fans who might pick up the books or at least watch one of the adaptations.
Is this game ever gonna have multiplayer?
I think they’ve said they’re working on multiplayer and mods.
I don’t think it’s too complicated, there are just a few things that make the game leas fun, for example: spice tax
For me is that they kept Kaines a female.
It was annoying when Dune 2021 did it.
If not the game looks fun. Very similar to the Dune boardgame.
Same, the developers say they are true to the books but it looks more like the last Dune movie.
Look up the story behind why Kaine was gender swapped in the movie. IE the character was "sacrificed" to protect Paul.
Really interesting analysis! I think we have similar opinions though I expressed mine in a lot more of a spice-fever dream way 😂
A have more then 20h in the game and at this moment it is very good. You have to take risk and trades of. In this manier is like MoM. Best think is it will be beter and larger😊
Pretty sure they don't? I haven't heard anything but positive buzz?
I think the sentiment of "you have to be a fan of Dune to enjoy this" is a little different from how you interpreted it. It's not "you won't understand this game if you haven't read the books"; rather, it is (correctly or not) "this game is not good enough to stand on its own, but if you're a fan of the setting then that might push it over the top for you."
I haven't played enough to decide on whether that's a true statement, but I think that's what people are getting at when they say it.
Yeah I think it’s about understanding and connection. Understanding the world, the houses, the names - and connecting with them because you enjoyed them. This helps, according to that perspective, make the game worthwhile.