Why The Voodoo Boyz Master Plan Was Always Going To Fail
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- Опубліковано 12 лип 2024
- 🔔 Subscribe to the channel: @relaxedswede
First video of 2024 is here! This video was inspired by a video from youtuber Gerpil. You can watch his video here:
Gerpil's Video: • Why the Heist to Steal...
Chapters
00:00 Intro
00:15 Haiti, Pacifica & The VDB's Origin
01:01 Part 1: To Be or Not To Be A VDB
03:12 Part 2: The Master Plan
08:26 Part 3: Mosley Explains
13:56 Part 4: Ending
If you have a theory or noticed something I missed just comment below, let's talk about it!
Check out this playlist for more Cyberpunk 2077 Theory Videos: • Cyberpunk 2077 Theories
About The Game Cyberpunk 2077:
Cyberpunk 2077 is an open-world, action-adventure RPG set in the dark future of Night City - a dangerous megalopolis obsessed with power, glamor, and ceaseless body modification. - Ігри
As you said, all steps in the plan relied on luck, even at the very last when we speak with Alt she says that the VDBs don’t know what they are looking for. A deal was never on the table to begin with.
Exactly. I don't even know what the VDB could have offered Alt in order to make a deal (if that somehow became a reality)? They don't exactly have a surplus of any resource
I love how the Voodoo Boys in the base game were so hated, they made the ones in PL basically say "yeah we don't own those guys, they're kinda stupid"
Facts! Also, RIP Slider!
Felt like he could have been a good character to get gigs from or learn some more about the VDB from. Since he'd left the gang, I'm sure he had some dirt on his former gang members.
"Dis not our way" - Placide, probably
It reminds me of cultists trying to make a deal with or control the ancient eldritch horror they summon/unleash. Never gonna end well.
This!
Voodoo boys alienating themselves from the rest of night city is an excellent motivator for the ex-VDB character in my fanfic, thanks for that 😂😂
Glad I could be of assistance 😄 Have you just started writing Cyberpunk fanfic or have you done it for a while?
@@relaxedswede I just have one that's forming in the background of all the other cyberpunk stuff I'm doing 😅😅 My latest big project that I just posted five seconds ago to the Nexus is a 700+ fast travel point collection. 😁😁
Wasn’t the VDB’s sole task for Evelyn was to scroll a BD of Yorinobu’s suite for them? She was impressively intelligent to have figured out the VDB’s reason to want the BD on her own, and she decided to steal the chip herself. The failure of the Heist is on the crew and Dexter Deshawn. Dex was out of the game for a while and didn’t know what he was doing, and our team was much too green to take on a heist like this. We do not know how the VDB’s would have done the heist themselves.
edit: thinking more, their failure was certainly not keeping a way better watch on Evelyn. They should have ICE’d her the moment she approached a fixer.
That is honestly fair.
Now that I think about it, Evelyn came up with the whole heist meanwhile the VDB only asked her to get the biochip. So perhaps they could have pulled off a successful heist in Konpeki Plaza...but I have a hard time seeing how.
Your point is valid tho.
@@relaxedswede Agreed, the only success I could see the VDB’s having is a lot of careful planning with a fixer like Rogue and/or contract a beast like Shaitan somehow.
However with the events with Saburo’s murder, they would have to had done all
this much earlier which i don’t think is possible really. Once that happens, Yorinobu would likely move quickly on his plans with the relic.
Then if the VDB’s had accomplished that, getting Johnny to work with them would be a serious challenge certainly. However I do see it possible that they make an arrangement with Alt. It seemed like they did in game if you refused Netwatch’s offer.
So their only success highly unlikely, or it is all handed to them by Dues Ex V.
Yeah that's true! I could also see them pulling off the heist if they somehow got Morgan Blackhand on board (assuming Mike Pondsmith had allowed him to be in the game).
The Alt deal...if I was Alt I wouldn't trust the VDB with any kind of deal. I haven't seen this gang follow through on any deal they make in game. Maybe I'm forgetting one good thing they do, but I don't I am.
Were they Green...yes....however I'd say it was Dumb Luck that they failed and not luck that they almost didn't. The one real thing you can say fucked up the whole plan was T-bug needing 3 hours to break the ICE which is the only reason they got jumped by Saburo and all the shit went the way it did. For the most part V and Jackie played their roles to a T and if it was any other heist they would of had pulled it off. IMO
Actually, we know how they would approach the heist: send a disposable moron they can kill at the end and pin everything on. As for what i think about the way things go in-game, Dex being involved seems to be part of the plan. Any Fixer with a modicum of intelligence would investigate Evelyn and nope out. But he didn't. Which makes me think he's VDB himself. He's racially appropriate, and accents can be trained out. Easier with chipware.
Also, the AI the VDB were trying to get into contact with isn't Alt. It bloody says so 😅
Brigitte only hired Evelyn to map out Yorinobu's room. The Heist was entirely Evelyn's idea of making a quick buck by selling the relic to NetWatch.
I seriously wonder what shit was Evelyn smoking to make her do this, the dangers VDB, Netwatch and Arasaka possess is ridiculous and she went ahead with the plan? Not to mention hiring a shit fixer like Dex.
They would still do a heist to clep the relic since they didnt have much time before Yorinobu sold the chip himself.
The voodoo boys saw the wendigoon video on rokos basilisk and said, nah bruh, we gonna do its bidding
Honestly I see their plan going like this if it succeeded:
They get the chip. They are able to extract a snippet of Johnny's engram to try and lure Alt out (I doubt they'd need a host for it, could be they can just extract a part of Johnny's "soul" from the chip).
And then....
Alt will most likely use them as puppets to attack Arasaka until good old Emperor Saburo decides to cut a deal with NC, buy Pacifica for 1 EuroDollar and proceeds to whipe the place off the map for Pacifica 2.0, sponsored by Arasaka. Or just sends Adam Smasher to whipe out the Voodoo Boys.
Alt slips back beyond the Blackwall and that's that.
That sounds about right tbh
These are all valid points, but I'd like to insert a few more:
1. the master plan of the Voodoo Boys hinges on having Johnny Silverhand's engram in particular to contact Alt Cunningham (or what's left of her).
For all they know, Yorinobu could've stolen the Relic from Araska's facility with an engram of a devious Lizzy Wizzy cosplayer who was a corporate spy (as an example), and NOT Silverhand. This would make their efforts to make peace with Alt rather laughable at best if this were the case.
(This would've also made for a very different experience, strange and comical though it might've been)
2. The Alt they know of no longer exists.
The AI that V (and by extension Johnny) meet and communicate with is most likely an amalgamation of smaller rogue AIs which merged with Cunningham's engram to survive beyond the Blackwall, it possesses her memories, and netrunning prowess, but lacks her humanity or any conviction to honor agreements, outside of the desire to exercise self preservation. The area of the net outside of the Blackwall is a digital hellscape in and of itself, a wilderness of rogue AIs who would hunt and devour other AIs, and would prove lethal to netrunners. While it might make sense to try reasoning with one to attempt securing safe passage, AIs aren't typically known to barter, or settle on pacts. It is a big leap in logic, and they should know this as a gang of netrunners, that there is a risk of Alt turning on them should they prove as a hindrance or threat against its main directive.
3. Consistent poking around the Blackwall might draw the attention of other rogue AIs.
Bryce Mosely, while he has his biases as a NetWatch agent, does speak the truth on a couple of occasions when regarding the Voodoo Boys, but more specifically what goes on in their subnet, and there constant activity going on near the Blackwall. If NetWatch can sniff out their plans from a rundown mall in Pacifica like a bloodhound, what are the odds of a rogue AI can detect them when they (in this case) try to send someone through the Blackwall to find Alt?
This is like chumming the waters, and NOT expecting sharks to smell blood, when they have enhanced smell receptions to help them track their prey.
4. If the plan was to splice the code sequence from Johnny's engram with V which Alt could recognize, there are a few possible.. 'Hiccups' to consider.
A) Alt (or I should say 'Alt AI') doesn't recognize the specific sequence, and doesn't find V. Plan dies as soon as it begins.
B) V is attacked and killed by a rogue AI upon crossing the Blackwall. Plan would die like the A, but in record time.
C) For some possible reason, they cannot send V or anyone of their crew through the Blackwall to meet Alt AI, their plan instantly fails.
This seems to be running pretty hard on the Luck factor.
The Voodoo Boys make for decent netrunners, but good tacticians that does not make. Maman Brigitte and Ti Neptune need a Jeff Goldblum (as Ian Malcolm) to analyze every conceivable way that their 4D chess plan could fall apart.
I declare it as twelve percent of a plan, barely escaping the 'concept phase'.
Every single point made was spot on. I agree!
Regarding the cameras and handprint at Konpeki Plaza; I'm pretty sure T-Bug would've been able to delete that data from the logs had things gone more smoothly. I hear this point brought up a lot but it's like they forget that the crew includes a supposedly highly skilled hacker who is (eventually) successful in taking control of the cameras anyway, so deleting some footage and login data should be easy for her.
Assuming a fair bit here.
A rogue super-AI would have greater understanding of cause and effect than most people. If it slaughtered the Voodoo Boys instantly, it alerts all that it is there. As it was stymied for the longest time by the Blackwall, this means that there is a force/are forces that can provide it with some serious troubles. Alerting to all that it is there potentially invites those forces in whilst they are still unknowns. This is bad for it. It knows this.
Instead, it'd likely play god to them, even going so far as to mind-slave the ones who know of it. A new loa, willing to dictate to the Boys about a new mentality of spreading out. Untouched, but loyal meat drones that can infiltrate and negotiate without revealing it.
So the Voodoo Boys would be right, it would probably spare them, but it would look at them as nothing more than tools, as they in turn had looked at others.
But that said, the plan relied on way too many "what ifs" to work.
Good point! Netwatch is always waiting for a scenario like that too so it can come in and nuke the Rogue A.I.
A Rogue Super A.I might have a better strategy than I laid out.
honestly I would imagine an AI using binary logic determine that Voodoo boys would be the most likely ones to cause harm to them and would wipe out the voodoo boys. I feel a gang like the 6th street would make more sense for AI to take over. Combat trained but not very net savy soldiers filled to the brim with combat cyberware would be much better tools.
5:39
Hold up there.
V had retina scramblers installed with their new eyes courtesy of Vik. Dunno about Jackie, but V is just going to show up as a blur on screen.
As for fingerprints - V has cyberhands/arms. You can see this where when you get the ballistic co-processor installed on you by Vik, *_by welding it to you._* There's no fingerprints to be had there.
You're right actually. V's face would appear as a blur. And perhaps there would be no fingerprints either in the normal sense.
Jackie could also have the same Kiroshi eye that V has so his face isn’t visible...we just don't know I suppose. I'm assuming he doesn't to try and salvage my theory haha
@@relaxedswede Hm, isn't that a little too easy? I mean you got these scramblers very early on and if some ripperdoc has them then you can bet Arasaka has them too and knows how they work and how to counter them. Also (at 5:39) we go through that scanner thing, I don't remember Tbug messing with it, and the flathead sets off an alarm, but is that all? They could easily have a full body scan on file at that very moment. They probably don't know who exactly, but it's only a matter of time.
the ballistic co-processor doesnt cover the finger tips but in a world where cyberware is normal i doubt they rely on shit like that anymore, the scanner could maybe scan and see what kind of chrome they have and another form of identification maybe? finger prints could be a possibility but i doubt they wipe after every scan so even if they try, they wont get much.
we know jackie doesnt have kiroshis, t-bug says so during the flathead part of the mission. jackie has to hand over the controls so bug can link the cameras to your kiroshis. jackie actually doesnt have a lot of chrome now i think about it. but his face wouldnt come up as a blur.
would v's face being a blur not be suspicious as hell? in a hotel that values security and safety, to the point that the BEDROOMS have cameras, a person who they cant see the face of on their feeds? wouldnt go well i think
sorry for my ramble, just needed it out of my system because theres a lot of angles and things to think about in cp77 which is one reason why i love it
@@GenderlessGhost1312
1.) You think that the hand and arm are cyberwear but... somehow the fingers aren't? I... Just... No. There's no flesh and therefore no fingerprints. The only thing on the fingers would be maybe something on the surface for grip, but it wouldn't equate to fingerprints.
2.) It's been proven time and time again that having human guards watch security camera footage is not effective. Even the most alert and serious human becomes bored, tunes out, etc. after hours. Given that you can knock out/turn off the cameras and it never alerts anyone and the fact that you can turn them into friendly mode, it shows that they're computer controlled. No humans. And the computer doesn't know that your face is blurred.
3.) We don't know if Jackie has cybernetic eyes or not. Chances are he does because you see the blue light glue during some times when you're communicating. Also, that's not what Jackie/T-Bug said. Jackie said he doesn't have the firmware upgrades that V has and that's why he can't control the bot.
As far as identities go, you have to go back to Cyberpunk 2013/2020 TTRPG rules and look into "SINs," but basically every merc had a dozen identities. It was common place.
Besides which, if the hotel scanned them and saw a real identity, it's not going to match up with the name that they gave them? Instant red flag. That didn't happen, then.
@@matchesburn I think he meant that V only had the ballistic co-processor installed in Act 1, not a full cyberarm. Still, fingerprints should be (almost) useless in a cyberpunk universe. I don't think there's any disagreement on that point.
That bit with the "SIN's" sounds interesting. A small detail that could have been put into the game. Since with all the chrome, there should be something more to ID a person.
the heist was evelyn’s plan, not the VDBs.
a whole critique on the VDBs based on a plan that wasn’t entirely theirs seems a bit unfair
I suppose I overlooked that. It's my bad for blaming the VDB for the failed Konpeki Plaza Heist.
I'll do better research for my video in 2024 and onwards
I'm not sure what the VDB's would do but like others pointed out, the Heist was Evelyns Idea, not a good one but the only one that got us close to the relic since Saburo Arasakas early demise. The VDB's simply would not have the chance to use the intel they got from Evelyns Braindance.
I agree. Huge oversight on my part there
While its true that the VDBs plan relied incredibly on luck. Evelyn was pretty smart, her/Dex's plan was pretty solid, while V and Jackie did go in barefaced, Yori wouldn't do jack shit about it.
It would be only he and Smasher trying to find V and Jackie, if Soburo hadn't shown up V & Co. would get away with it because Yori would never admit to Soburo that he lost the Biochip.
While its certain that Soburo would find out eventually, there was a pretty high chance that the chip would be so far gone that it wouldn't be worth the trouble.
Assuming Saburo did not already know immediately as soon as Yorinobu stole the chip, I can see how the scenario above could happen. It's possible.
Looking at the timeline, it is entirely possible the VDB’s wouldn’t have time to swipe the chip.
They'd have had to rush to even have a chance at the heist. Which decreases the chances of success
The VDB seem more capable then they are because they are so sure of themselves but the reality is, they are that group of survivors in a post apocalypse movie who decide they're going to go join the gang of bandits coming after them instead of fighting and the next time you see them they're head are on pikes. They have no hope of surviving whatever they accomplish.
i kinda disagree - v and jakcie were merely tools so if doesnt matter if after the heist Saka would find them - if they got the chip for evelyn they were disposable that would only lead to Evelyn -V and jakcie - they knew nothing about VDB's involvment so they posed no risk for them - as for evelyn VDB's would just kill her after getting the chip from her and disapear her body - thus ending the trail as well. in a sense Eve was always getting the stick either way.
So in a manner of speaking the heist wasnt a threat becasue the trail for saka would end at V/Jackie and possibly evelyn - and another misdirection as we saw was pointed toward Dexter de shawn - and he also didnt knew the VDB's were involed so he couldnt sell them out even if he wanted to.
From the Arasaka pespecitve it would all line up - A toy got wind of the chip from Yuri - she then hired de shawn who hired mercs to klep the relic - the heist went on - they klept it - so the saka followed the trail (aka the delamin and money trail who booked the rooms etc) so they whacked de shawn, who whacked V - and the Evelyn was next to be whacked in either case even if she ran - so from Arasakas perspective all the loose ends were being attended already - as far as they knew and Yuri wouldnt dig to deep into this for his own fears of his patricide being dug up by accident as well.
I agree with this. Like I mentioned before, I thought I had a good point going and then 2 hours after posting the videos I realised my errors (mostly due to people pointing them out).
Your point is absolutely correct.
I didn't take out the voodoo boys in the first playthrough. My mouth waters to do so in the next one
Step 1: breach the blackwall.
Step 2: ?
Step 3: profit.
OP strategy to success!
It needs to be nerfed
someone help out whats the name of the song thats used in the transition at 1:01
I can help out. Just checked the unedited version of this video.
Song: Cyberpunk 2077 OST - Chrome Shamans
Actually the original VBs were white people who “adopted” the hindi stuff for their own benefit until hindi took over and became what they are in 2077.
Yeah, I just learned that yesterday tbh. Didn't know that they were originally white before.
this game is full of plans and actions that make precisely zero sense and should be just as likely to succeed, storming Arasaka with Aldecaldos being one great example, but hey the game has to happen, so let's put the plot armour on and do the thing
Johnny is not an excellent judge of character he is an idiot and if the VB´s tell him that their plant will destroy arasaka he like an idiot will be all in
Like I mentioned, he is a great judge of character....unless...it's about corpos. Then he is super irrational
We don´t know if he is a great judge of character we know that he treats his friends and his girlfriend like trash we know all that he have done with the corpos how he die that he is ex army and that in the game he believes that the city needs another nuke their is a gig that he say ( this is why the city needs another nuke ) he don´t care about others and he don´t care about the people that die because of the nuke he just want´s another one . I personally don´t like him and i believe that he is the worst type of psychopath i mean ask your self if he was in real life what you will believe he is practically worst that Hitler . But ok i will just ask where in the lore it says that he is a great judge of character because i can´t see it i only see his actions and their are all the actions of a psychopath . I believe that no one will like him if it wasn´t Keanu and even the fact that when he is doing something bad he say the hand did that not me it shows the lack of empathy in him @@relaxedswede
You make a good point when you talk about the nuke.
If he was in real life, like he was my neighbour here in Stockholm...I wouldn't like him at all. We would be considered a world-class terrorist. Worse than Bin Laden (Bin Laden never let off nukes). And I'm not saying Johnny did the nuke this himself or that he's solely responsible but he was involved in that.
In game tho, I like him. I like his evolution. I like how he goes from wanted to kill V and, depending on which ending you pick, he let's V keep the body and allows himself to die. A true psychopath wouldn't be able to show that level of empathy. But then again, I like him. You don't seem to like so perhaps these actions from Johnny are too little too late...@@xaxaxaxaxa6417
I did like that the first think that he is doing is try to kill V and then he is like change my mind and i suppose to trust you now and that CDPR don´t allow me to shut him i mean i have the blue pills let me use them i will have drink one every morning and if you don´t do what he want´s he always try to take control it´s my body i will do what i want it´s my body ( talking as V ) i like him as an antagonist for me he is the main boss that i have to win . If you haven´t play as V hate Johnny try it the dialogue is more interesting i have play with both ways although i hate him and for me the hate dialogue is more natural .Your video is nice i will watch more and probable sub @@relaxedswede
The whole story is full of plot holes
The Voodoo Boyz are the coolest faction, not entirely sure why you dislike them so much or why you would just take Netwatch's word. Netwatch are super evil is it just because they don't try to kill you in the mission? Sure Placide is a dick to you, but he is trying to save his boss and community from Netwatch killing them all. One rando dying to kill your enemies and save your community seems like a fair trade to me. It's not like V is an innocent bystander. V has killed plenty of Mercs, Guards, and Gangsters to get what they want. It's hypocritical to get all upset when someone else does the exact same thing.
In regards to the heist, sure they want the Johnny chip but it's not like they have everything riding on this one plan. All it appears they have tried is to send a doll in to gather information. It's not the "Master Plan" you make it out to be, maybe they are waiting for a better opportunity to steal the Chip, or maybe it could become easier to contact a different AI.
It really sucks that the only gang you can eliminate in the game is the most Interesting.
They treat all outsiders like shit, and V is just a bitch to them. V kills because it's V's job(not to mention you can play the whole game only killing people during the scripted sequences), that's not the same as killing people because they just stopped being useful to you. Besides, if you don't treat someone who tries to kill you with hostility, you deserve what's coming to you. Thought it's obvious in a dog-eat-dog setting like Night City.
They’re widely considered the worst
Your argument has alot of holes in it.
The VBS's treat ALL outsiders as disposable trash to be used until no longer needed. They don't care about the fact that they're sacrificing a person's life involuntarily for whatever "benefit" or goal they get or reach. Willing to kill me when I came with what they were after AND dealing with one of their enemies is enough reason for me to take them all out. They even expect me to die when doing the meeting through the Blackwall. That's twice they were willing to sacrifice me.
Getting rid of Netwatch in their backyard is one thing, but being willing to let me fry just so they can talk to an AI has no legit justification AT ALL! Evelyn MAY, and i can't stress that enough, deserved being punished for overplaying her hand, but she didn't deserve what happened to her.
People who isolate themselves and only use people for the most petty and minor goals are not good people. No one likes the VDB's because they are legitimately a-holes to everyone outside their community. If they shed even a care about the lives of outsiders they drag into the mess, we might be sympathize with them. But they are literal users who don't bring anything positive to anyone except themselves. If you're gonna isolate yourself, don't go off and kill off or let outsiders die like nothing for your goals. At that point, you start being considered a parasite better off cut off because you're just causing more harm than good. If you isolate yourself, keep to yourself. No one cares what you do in the basement so long as no one from the outside is getting hurt.
Don't forget dude, the most notable part about them is their tendency to betray and kill even THEIR OWN. There was this one gig or cyberpsycho mission(Idk which type it is) where a green newbie Voodooboy wanted in on the gang, and had talent to back it up, but sadly once he completed a gig they gave him, they offed him for reasons we can only assume relate to the fact that he was new.
They are too tribalistic in many ways, thus being the more widely hated faction. Atleast Netwatch offers a neutral arrangement for everyone most of the time as it proved to be more beneficial for them.
This is a wild defense. Nobody is entirely good or bad in the dark future, that's kinda the point. The VDB's are being hunted because they're fucking with the blackwall, you know, the thing that stands between the world and rogue ai. Netwatch isn't good, they're beholden to corpo interest, but if doing their job means the world is safe at the cost of a few VDBs who flew to close to the sun, that sounds like a fair trade to me.