The difference between Scarlett and Jaedong when dealing with this exact build from Terran is basically Scarlett basically tries to go almost all in, but Jaedong tries to be cost effective. The amount of money Scarlett spent in the first game to crush Bomber's composition was not even close to cost effective, but it is pretty much necessary to do that against this particular build. A gamble, basically.
True, but not sure it would work as such an army would be extremely slow and cumbersome. And the terran could simply add a few bashees and tanks all the while using the immobility of the swarm hosts to drop everywhere.
Surprised we never see her use vipers as you throw a blinding cloud on stutter stepping marines and they will run head first into your banelings, not too mention being able to pull medivacs and unburrow widow mines with its abduct ability.
with overlord spread you would see all drops and you can stop them with roaches. That is why you get roaches before your swarmhosts that can stop hellions and give you chance to get a third before your SH... and if you are dying to a few banshees then you need to scout better and prepare spores
What you just isn't true, if it was every Terran would play like Bomber, but it's just not that easy. You don't seem to take into account how much practising these players do, to be able to micro like Bomber is incredibly hard that's achieved over a long period of time.
Maybe Terran needs more effort to micro ( although widow mines make it really hard on zerg) but as zerg you need to inject, scout, spread creep, manage overlords and defend more bases. Terran macro is super easy and all you really need to do is drop a couple mules once in a while and hold down A.
Than you have range upgrades and can't go into ultralisks. I think roaches can work great in this matchup when combined with zerglings and banelings though because they negate the kiting of the marines (roaches can't shoot fast anyway. so they don't lose that much dps).
Maybe Zerg should try other strategies than ling/bane/muta since it never works out great. 1 Widow mine >> 1 Baneling (almost same cost) 1 Marine > 2 Zerglings (exactly same cost) 1 Medivac > 1 Muta (exactly same cost) Why not try e.g. Roach/Hydra/Viper? Is it because of the lack of protection against drops? I would rather lose a little here and there to drops than constantly lose my army in the big engagements.
So is the muta regen though. That buff seriously needs to be undone now that WM are being nerfed because muta balls are just completely destroying the meta in all match ups. Mass muta balls just get entirely out of hand and outside of going mass phoenix are extremely difficult to stop.
swarm host counters both marauders and widowmines... the only thing they can do is drop on top of your swarm hosts... and that is when you have roaches protecting them
Scarlett's VS Bomber decided the winner of WCS, not Jaedong VS Bomber. I'm glad that the Widow Mine is getting nerfed, but it's too late. Scarlett would have won these matchups had she played VS a balanced Widow Mine.
True, but I dunno about vipers: drops come earlier than Hives usually and Vipers cost quiet a lot for limited purpose: I'd rather go Roach hydra with some infest WOL style...but again the Fungal has been nerfed....And there's a little prob with Roach hydra nowadays: since FG is harder to cast , if you miss, the marauders will never die because of the medivacs healing quicker than roaches dps O_o! Maybe "hybrid zerg"? Infestor mass ling bling muta? Stephano style?!
For people that complain that Terran is OP, try actually playing them against banelings and see how far you'll get, you need insane APM and skill to play like bomber does, and even he lost to banelings in game one, you argue that Terran only needs Marines and mines well, I can argue that only zerg needs are banelings that require no micro nor skill to use while I need to setup mines like a god and micro the living hell out of my marines to survive, Zerg = no effort banelings
Mass marines says bitch please,no x-P ?! As P though it's true, archons and stalkers do good as long as mutas aren't upgraded or more than 25! Otherwise only Skytoss, starting with phoenix can keep up!
kinda annoying how every single terran build just consists of what is "hot" based on patch nerfs, pro games are starting to become stale lol. EVERYONE did hellbat drops till they were fixed, now that they arent broken they arent even used. and its all widow mine marine mvac all day everyday with the occasional tank.
Winning or losing a game decided by a luck based unit... You can strategically place them, but the rest is luck. Such a stupid idea for a skills based game.
Hey HD, pls stop casting TvZ. It's just stupid and painful to watch. All games just play out as a banebust back in wol... just takes longer. marines, mules, an a few mines... zerg can do shit, as all counters cost gas lke hell. cast em when this issue got fixed. thx, always a big fan
HD you have saved me from my homework once again
The difference between Scarlett and Jaedong when dealing with this exact build from Terran is basically Scarlett basically tries to go almost all in, but Jaedong tries to be cost effective.
The amount of money Scarlett spent in the first game to crush Bomber's composition was not even close to cost effective, but it is pretty much necessary to do that against this particular build.
A gamble, basically.
that last hellion kicked so much ass
I thought she was going to perform a desperation Nydus Tunnel. Oh well, another win for the superior Terrans.
yeah I agree, additionally, Reduce splash damage, Reduce splash area and increase reload time
True, but not sure it would work as such an army would be extremely slow and cumbersome. And the terran could simply add a few bashees and tanks all the while using the immobility of the swarm hosts to drop everywhere.
Surprised we never see her use vipers as you throw a blinding cloud on stutter stepping marines and they will run head first into your banelings, not too mention being able to pull medivacs and unburrow widow mines with its abduct ability.
with overlord spread you would see all drops and you can stop them with roaches. That is why you get roaches before your swarmhosts that can stop hellions and give you chance to get a third before your SH... and if you are dying to a few banshees then you need to scout better and prepare spores
What you just isn't true, if it was every Terran would play like Bomber, but it's just not that easy. You don't seem to take into account how much practising these players do, to be able to micro like Bomber is incredibly hard that's achieved over a long period of time.
Maybe Terran needs more effort to micro ( although widow mines make it really hard on zerg) but as zerg you need to inject, scout, spread creep, manage overlords and defend more bases. Terran macro is super easy and all you really need to do is drop a couple mules once in a while and hold down A.
Baneling, the new vortex.
Great match so far
Than you have range upgrades and can't go into ultralisks. I think roaches can work great in this matchup when combined with zerglings and banelings though because they negate the kiting of the marines (roaches can't shoot fast anyway. so they don't lose that much dps).
Maybe Zerg should try other strategies than ling/bane/muta since it never works out great.
1 Widow mine >> 1 Baneling (almost same cost)
1 Marine > 2 Zerglings (exactly same cost)
1 Medivac > 1 Muta (exactly same cost)
Why not try e.g. Roach/Hydra/Viper? Is it because of the lack of protection against drops? I would rather lose a little here and there to drops than constantly lose my army in the big engagements.
So is the muta regen though. That buff seriously needs to be undone now that WM are being nerfed because muta balls are just completely destroying the meta in all match ups.
Mass muta balls just get entirely out of hand and outside of going mass phoenix are extremely difficult to stop.
Or may be make them visible when they hide on Creep.
But it will not solve the problem when marines+medivac can bite any zerg units.
swarm host counters both marauders and widowmines... the only thing they can do is drop on top of your swarm hosts... and that is when you have roaches protecting them
Scarlett's VS Bomber decided the winner of WCS, not Jaedong VS Bomber. I'm glad that the Widow Mine is getting nerfed, but it's too late. Scarlett would have won these matchups had she played VS a balanced Widow Mine.
True, but I dunno about vipers: drops come earlier than Hives usually and Vipers cost quiet a lot for limited purpose: I'd rather go Roach hydra with some infest WOL style...but again the Fungal has been nerfed....And there's a little prob with Roach hydra nowadays: since FG is harder to cast , if you miss, the marauders will never die because of the medivacs healing quicker than roaches dps O_o! Maybe "hybrid zerg"? Infestor mass ling bling muta? Stephano style?!
Scarlett herself, 10 years ago...
For people that complain that Terran is OP, try actually playing them against banelings and see how far you'll get, you need insane APM and skill to play like bomber does, and even he lost to banelings in game one, you argue that Terran only needs Marines and mines well, I can argue that only zerg needs are banelings that require no micro nor skill to use while I need to setup mines like a god and micro the living hell out of my marines to survive, Zerg = no effort banelings
Hey guys, what happens when the fire bats take on three Zerg unit combinations during a heal phase from a medivac?
what do you think about that:
make widows mines visible, while they "reload"
great game!
Awesome!
Mass marines says bitch please,no x-P ?!
As P though it's true, archons and stalkers do good as long as mutas aren't upgraded or more than 25! Otherwise only Skytoss, starting with phoenix can keep up!
Scarlett is a very good player. Bomber is unstoppable.
Marines are extremely effective against zerg.
Adding a few mauraders for Terran is just too easy and Roaches in high numbers are impossible against widow mines due to the low range of the roach.
id like to see roach, muta... bannelings are just bad against widowmines and even marines
please direct me to a man named scarlett...
Terran beat the op bailings that dont even do friendly splash damage?
mooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrr!
sHE's so good wtf
how to repeat building units people??
a terran massing marines, wow so strange and uncommon ...
Only me who skipps the first 5 minutes of sc2-videos most of the time?
lings can tank marauder damage
Bomber - playing terran like a zerg
me first ten minutes. Lets watch C&C2013, this game may have action from 1st minute of game
Widow mines are just stupid, way to go Blizzard, how the hell does it take this long to nerf that nonsense.
Another game showcasing just how stupid widow mines are.
Well I just saw a scientific report showing women actually can multi task more efficiently - the boys better be worried!
Wait... 00:44 Scarlett is a "she"?!
Why would you even ask that?
wiki()teamliquid()net/starcraft2/Scarlett
Seriously, why would he constantly call a dude she the entire two games?
kinda annoying how every single terran build just consists of what is "hot" based on patch nerfs, pro games are starting to become stale lol. EVERYONE did hellbat drops till they were fixed, now that they arent broken they arent even used. and its all widow mine marine mvac all day everyday with the occasional tank.
Because it's broken as fuck and too cost efficient.
Google it, guys... Scarlett indeed is a she, her real name is Sacha Hostyn, and she definitely is a girl. HD is right.
scarlett > JEADONG
Is scarlet really a girl?
nerf marines
infestors
Bomber is probably the most boring player to watch, every game he just uses mass marines.
No Scarlet is transgender, used to be a guy.
HE
Yes and also make them cost 1k min each. Shut up
Winning or losing a game decided by a luck based unit...
You can strategically place them, but the rest is luck. Such a stupid idea for a skills based game.
Yeah, but she used to be a he.
lol terran gets nothing but nerf's you fail .. get guud and l2p
so boring.. why does the terran need to build anything else than Marine, Widow Mine and Medvac... so OP vs Zerg... boring
I know there is a lot more going on here- but come on, seriously? 93 marines? Ugh how boring. Seriously. Boring.
Hey HD, pls stop casting TvZ. It's just stupid and painful to watch. All games just play out as a banebust back in wol... just takes longer. marines, mules, an a few mines... zerg can do shit, as all counters cost gas lke hell. cast em when this issue got fixed. thx, always a big fan