OK, I guess this video counts as controversial since it's got a comparatively high dislike ratio and double the comments of the last episode of Bad Weapon Academy which also has double the views. So let me respond to some responses I've gotten. 1: Your data is bad and you should feel bad I know. I wanted a higher pool of matches and I wanted to test this out while also using a Flamethrower with each weapon. I even wanted to do a few with the Scorch Shot and Phlog for the hell of it, but I just didn't have the time. I might make a follow-up video some time in the future, and by then I'll try to come up with some better data once I'm not under as much of a hard time crunch where I have to get out two high effort videos out in a month. 2: You are a Sniper main, that means your video is invalid because you are clearly biased I made every effort to divorce myself from my favorite class, who I barely get to play anymore to begin with since the vast majority of my time in TF2 is now spent focusing on making these videos, and I didn't even mention anything about Sniper until about 13 minutes into a 17 minute video. If that mere mention suddenly invalidates everything I said previously that had nothing to do with Sniper, then I can't help you there. On the issue of bias, Pyro is easily the class least affected by the Scorch Shot, and he's also the class that happens to use it, meaning it might be worth it to consider your own potential biases as I did. If you spend the majority of your time playing Pyro with the Scorch Shot and don't see how it's annoying to fight against, then maybe there's a reason for that. 3: You complain about the Scorch Shot, but you main Sniper and Sniper is overpowered I won't deny that Sniper has balance issues. I don't think they extend so far as to make the class on its own overpowered because I think that would require a lower skill floor. A bad Sniper is just about as good as the other team not having a player on their team which I don't think could happen for an overpowered class. Now, in the case of those select few really, really good Snipers, then problems start to emerge. To begin with, I think Sniper is not punished enough for missing. He reloads quickly and passively and has a large ammo pool so he can stay in one spot without having to make himself vulnerable by repositioning, (all issues shared with the Scorch Shot, with the exception that a Pyro on the move is far from vulnerable at close range.) As Zesty pointed out, quickscoping is also really fucking fast. I don't think Sniper's balance is perfect, but that's not what this video is about which is why I didn't go on a tangent about Sniper's balance despite what a hot button issue it is in the community at the moment. 4: The Scorch Shot isn't the most rewarding weapon, look at the Sniper Rifle and Direct Hit This was poor wording on my part. In terms of raw damage, obviously the Scorch Shot isn't the most rewarding unless it hits the entire team at the same time while they're all on fire or something. However, it does the most shit with a single shot. A Sniper Rifle, with a single shot, just does damage, a fuckload, sure, but just damage. You don't get stunned and have damage over time inflicted by a Sniper Rifle, and the bullet doesn't bounce in the air so it can headshot you twice and inflict damage over time to your nearby teammates. In terms of the sheer amount of things that hitting someone once accomplishes, I don't think there's any competition. 5: I use the Scorch Shot because it's fun, what's the big deal? Can't you just leave it alone and let us have fun? The idea of game balance in multiplayer games is to ensure that everyone, not just the person who uses the most powerful tools at their disposal, is having fun. If your fun is coming at the expense of everyone else's, then that's bad game design. It's not inherently bad to have something overpowered in a video game, but it is in a multiplayer game if it's 1: Easily and readily available at any time, and 2: Incredibly easy to use and abuse. Something like an Ubercharge is obviously overpowered, but it takes a long time to build up and needs to be used tactically. This doesn't apply to the Scorch Shot which is why it's poorly designed, not fun to fight and needs to be nerfed. 6: You're misusing the term "stunlock," it's a fighting game term, not an FPS one I've often heard the term "stunlock" applied to things like pre-Jungle Inferno airblast or many mechanics in Overwatch (part of why I never touched that shit,) and so applied it to the Scorch Shot. I understand its origins in fighting games, I just didn't realize the term was that restrictive. 7: You are just mad because you are angry Yes but in five minutes I'll stop being angry, but you'll never stop being a Pyro main.
I 100% agree with everything in this video. The scorch shot could have been just fine as a sort of "practice" detonator, but they HAD to make it the biggest crutch.
@@Dog-999i like using weed. Your tf2 “family” will be really uncomfortable with it, maybe they’ll even say something about it, but you know what it does for you, and fellow detonators can respect the skill it takes
I feel like if this guy was trapped on an island and the only flare he could use to signal for help was just the scorch shot, he would just try to survive on the island
Wrong. He would start a fire of course to start his little island survival life he gets a fire going to y'know cook some food, get heat. Then he jumps into the fire and starts burning alive see you'd think he'd be screaming in agony from the flames but he's actually happy because this is where the scorch shot comes in. He shoots himself with the scorch shot while burning alive and mini-crits himself for the ez free kill.
That's kinda funny as well, as it means the spy knows he's too stupid to pull off some plan to kill someone like him, and that's always funnier than them raging about how it's not their fault as it just isn't tired at this point.
@@davidmingle5910 More damage than a soldier vs the tr_walkway bots (with ideal settings). Not in any practical scenario. Who cares about tr_walkway bots? When discussing game balance you should only be concerned about real game scenarios and in a real game people are not going to stand still so they get hit by the mini crit, and they will seek a medic or any one of the myriad other ways to get rid of afterburn.
@@ihatethis103 Try playing the game instead of trusting what some youtuber says. You can even see even in this video how players are not getting hit twice, only the bots that are standing still in tr walkway are getting hit twice. It's not a stun, it's a knockback. Even reved up heavies can avoid the second hit.
@@Hedning1390 do you think i didn't played? Of course the players aren't gonna stand in the same fucking place they're going to run, of course It isn't Common this thing happening but Just cuz It doesn't happen Very often doesn't mean It still should be in the game, by that logic soldiers Rocket should have a chance to wipe out the entire enemy team and Just cuz It doesn't happen Very often It should stay in the game
I remember using the scorch shot BEFORE the gun mettle update. You know, when it had the explosion radius of the detonator, a little knockback, and none of the crits. I loved that thing. I'd occasionally get called a shitter because the other flare guns were meta, but now I'm a shitter because it IS the meta.
another note is that the scorch shot actually deals the most damage to buildings out of all the flare guns. the normal flare gun deals 30, detonator deals 23, but the scorch shot deals 36 for some reason.
@@violetchan6402 To be fair, buildings can’t be lit by a dragon’s fury, so it’s only fair to allow it to be able to fight a building with decent damage, considering it’s a primary weapon. In the case of the scorch shot, a secondary item, there’s literally no reason.
Funny thing. Dragon fury is.... bad Another pyro can repel the dragon fury shot with an air blast, i dont fucking know why and when i first did this against a pyro it melted my brain
Fun fact, in TFC, pyro had an incendiary rocket launcher as one of his weapons. I think this was the inspiration for the flare guns. Or also the cowmangler. "The Incendiary Cannon is a weapon in Team Fortress Classic games and is only used by the Pyro. It launches rockets that set targets within its blast radius on fire, even through walls. The rockets fired by the Incendiary Cannon are as fast as those fired by the Rocket Launcher [the biggest major difference], but deal reduced damage. Unlike the Rocket Launcher, it does not need to be reloaded. In all its incarnations, the Incendiary Cannon is the only weapon that can set targets on fire at anything other than close range. While the player can rocket jump with the Incendiary Cannon, it will not propel the player as far as the Rocket Launcher. On the upside, it will do much less damage than using the Rocket Launcher would. The amount of ammo consumed by the weapon depends on the game; in Quake Team Fortress it uses three rockets per shot. In Team Fortress Classic, it uses one rocket per shot."
Flare Gun: Rewards good aim with long-ranged damage, which is important for a close-ranged class. Scorch Shot: Rewards shooting anywhere within a 5 mile radius of an enemy with making them want to delete the game
The thing is I hope this weapon gets nerfed not because I hate it, but because I love using it. As a Pybro style pyro, the explosion makes it a great tool for harrasing anyone trying to take long distance pot shots at my engineer, but the bouncing flare stunning and be able to mini-crit like it does is undeniably stupid
As someone who also loves the Scorch Shot, hard agree. Long-range flare explosions are fantastic, I love it. But the bouncing flare is just way too strong, and I agree on it being undeniably stupid.
Same here, the scorch shot is the ultimate defensive secondary tool for pyro and should be used as such, much like how the detonator is the same but for offensive use. The stigma it has for braindead spam is undeserved, because it's not braindead just spam, which, like it or not is a big part of TF2. The scorch shot is a good method of force multiplication for defense in a similar (but not as effective) way to the sentry gun, letting you further disuade people from pushing in. After two shots of the scorch shot, any unprepared offensive will be sent retreating to rethink their choices. This is why I think it should have lower splash radius and splash damage, and halved afterburn duration. This way it would work just as well as a defensive weapon without being wayyyy too powerful
I have a fond memory where there were four snipers along the balcony in 2fort. They were wreaking havoc but two pyros opened up with scorches and kept them suppressed. There was much burning and running
I use it on Bots (MvM) or Bots (Casual), as they're not real people and I don't need to worry about if they're having fun or not. Aside from that I just feel bad though, what right would I have to complain about it if I used it a lot?
As a pyro main with the tiniest bit of skill and some actual respect for enemy gamers, I despise the Phlogistinator with a *hehe* burning passion. After seeing the numbers on this, I'd sooner use the Froschenverfer.
And then on the other end of the spectrum we have the sand man, making you basically a noodle for the reward of slowing down one enemy occasionally if you hit a point blank shot with the curved projectile, so ye :D
almost every time I see a scorch shot pyro on the other team ill switch to the manmelter for the hundreds of free crits. there's something satisfying about picking up 12 crits in under 10 seconds and then two tapping the scorch pyro with said crits.
When your goal is to win in tf2 while playing by the rules the scorch shot is the best gun for that task. It's not like your cheating this was intentionally put in the game and people aren't toxic for using it. It's like calling soldier mains toxic for rocket jumping because its really effective or saying people who main sniper are toxic because sniper is such a good class. Seriously, sniper is kinda op. My man is just salty because he got roasted by pyros one to many times.
@@dogmeat1414 so does the scorch shot. It does take a bit of skill, maybe less than the flare gun but you do still need to aim. To get the most out of the scorch shot you need to hit all your shots and make use of mini crits.
one day i was using degreaser and panic atack and someone said to me "the old meta,you have my respect" this was the only good thing someone has ever said to me when i went pyro
Reserve Shootet was the most annoying weapon in the game then it got nerfed and balanced ( it is good on Soldier but bad on pyro ) . Hope same happens to Scorch Shot to .
@@chinthescrew4907 i think the reserve shooter should be changed to give it some uses on pyro, obviously not the ability to crit by pressing M2 and M1 but it's kind of weird that they are still able to equip it.
@@vivelespatat2670 kind of weird to have yet another counter for the classes that pyro already counters though? Like, maybe trolldier or parachute demo...
@@lenakarlsson2404 At this point for me, the only way to view the Scorch Shot positively is from a perspective at which the user is being disadvantaged.
@@mikethegoo yes , the weapon mannmelter,which was served as a niche alternative for airblast, has became the absolute counter to scorch shot as his aoe extinguish and earning crits per burning player when doing that
Here’s the thing bout secondaries for pyro Yea, you can use one of the 2 skill based flares Yea, you can use the fire rocket launcher Yea, you can use shotguns Yea, you can use a can of uselessness But me? I think I like my J E T P A C K
I usually use the scorch shot, but I switch to jetpack as soon as a sniper i killed starts complaining about "muh op weapon, muh coward no skill"; so i fly to him and burn him with my flamethrower
The fact alone that the Scorch Shot can one shot light classes makes it over shadow all the other flare guns. At least with the flare gun you have to combo it, and the detonator is just completely over shadowed even with its capability to jump higher.
people are like 'that's unrealistic lmao' or straight up don't include the afterburn reset into their damage calcs. Guess what? If you AIM with this thing, you can pull off a rocket juggle (yes that's right) on a MOVING target by shooting their feet, which bounces them up in the air, stuns them a bit, which is more than enough time for the shot to land and REINFLICT AFTERBURN. This adds up to more than 125 damage if you don't get healed fast enough, and can be somewhat uncommonly pulled off in a choke.
@@QuokkaCore no it’s not, the detonator is balance around the fact that is use for control of masses is not supposed to be used for burst damage and you are probably using it wrong if you think that.
@@QuokkaCore overrated? i never see it really being talked about or used much, especially cause the regular flare gun or shorch shit are much better. flare jumps are flashy as hell though and i like that, i use the detonator if i feel like having fun. in the hands of the right person (not me lol) it can also be a fantastic utility for moving around without as much of the predictability of the jetpack.
@@QuokkaCore but the powerjack doesn't give you some additional vertical mobility, plus it isn't as good as closing the gap between you and your target as the detonator's flare jump is. you can not like using the detonator, but you can't deny that it has some valuable utility to it that, once mastered, can make you a powerful opponent. although i personally prefer using back scratcher or axtinguisher over the jack, so i guess that affects my opinion on the detonator's flare jumps..
@@Anemeethious You still have to do work with the Cow Mangler. There's still a reload time, and a charge time to fire the one shot. You can probably do twice as much single target damage with the Scorch Shot in the same time you get to fire and reload the Cow Mangler.
@@toniotrussardi8126 nah, this community in particular has took this practice to the entire new level so much that even the most deviant Keanuchungustards would tremble.
I like the music but it kinda makes me feel like this video is going to cut away and become a creepypasta video since Silent Hill's ost is used all the time in those vids.
@@nexusthenormie5578 hard disagree. The detonator is great for AOE damage and the mobility is just a cherry on top, plus it already opens up a lot of routes for the pyro
I wonder what the scorch shot would be like if the flare had a speed penalty, forcing the pyro to have to aim way more ahead of their target and allowing the enemy to predict it better.
might as well make it a true area denial weapon: retain knockback on hit, reduce explosion radius slightly, remove the damage that it deals on hit (i.e. it only sets people on fire) and reduce projectile speed. change its interactions with phlog so it doesn’t go crazy (maybe a reduced charge rate). that way, scorch shot pyros can do the thing they always wanted to do: irritate enemies to no end, but without killing them (which may be a fate worse than death)
Or maybe not have the annoying bouncing thingy.. the main reason it overpowerd. Spamming it is inconvenient, but literally killing a light class with ONE flare is a absurd
That would be a very terrible idea for pyros. Pyro is a mobile class that depends on fast speed. Slowing down is basically entirely against what the classis supposed to do. Imagine a scout pistol slowly you down as you fired. It would essentially kill the weapon.
@@compatriot852 the flares already fire at an extremely fast velocity I was thinking of making it about the speed of a normal rocket or a little less I suggested this mainly because i feel like the scorch shot wants to be a sorta fire explosive Like a rocket launcher for the pyro But the issue is it does really perform differently from the other flare guns Although simply removing the bouncing flare should be enough I feel like it would be interesting if it perhaps had a slower projectile speed forcing it to be used more as area denial Of course it would need something to maybe help it perform a little better in that aspect Like increasing the explosion radius slightly but reducing the after burn slightly to compensate
Now I feel guilty about the time when the scorch shot was the only flare gun I had and I didn’t know it was so busted. I don’t even remember if I used it that often, but still
I remember WAY back when Meet the Pyro came out, and our Pyro main Ryusuta hated the Scorch Shot because it was underwhelming....my God how the game has changed.
I think you're mis-using the term "stunlock" pretty significantly here. In video games, a "stun" effect is one which temporarily stops the affected character from moving or taking any actions, such as McCree's Flashbang (Overwatch) or Ashe's ultimate (League of Legends). The term "stunlock" describes an event in which one or more characters are affected by multiple different stun effects in rapid succession such that they cannot control their character at all for a dangerously long period of time. An example of this is that, in many fighting games, every attack that connects stuns the opponent for a brief amount of time, such that chaining attacks together in a very precise manner leads to "combos" that can stunlock the opponent for a significant stretch of time, dealing damage all the while. The scorch shot does not stunlock, at least not on its own. Technically speaking, it doesn't even stun. All that the scorch shot does is knock up the target, temporarily limiting the target's ability to control their movement, but in no way hampering the target's ability to aim, shoot, use items, or take other actions. The scorch shot is definitely an example of a crowd control ability, an umbrella term which includes everything from stuns to knockups to pulls to disabling effects, but it is not in and of itself a "stunlock," nor does it have a "stunlock ability."
@Coolie_O It doesn't give you a speed debuff. you can never accelerate while in the air (air-strafing is arguably a glitch, and negligible anyways) outside of the scout's double-jump, which you can activate at any time, even immediately after being hit by the SS. the knockback it deals is no different from explosive knockback. It bumps you up into the air very similarly to a single sticky being detonated at your feet
"Such blatantly poor weapon design, that I don't even know how this thing made it through testing" Let me just get a laundry list of dogshit weapons right here...
It's more skill based than brain based, so kinda accurate. The items that are simpler are more reliable and efficient at their job, while gimmicks are usually worse and don't do as well.
@@auraguard0212 Because it's the easiest. Most unlocks crumble just because of the mere existence of random crits. The rest are not balanced for the game 12v12 (standard casual), and lose because of the impossibility of banal spam and aoe for many targets.
As a flare gun pyro I'd say that the flare is really good for the puff and sting (aka a one on one fight) but the scorch just dominates at everything else
I don't agree. Scorch shot is better as spamming and dealing AoE damage, while Detonator is much better for mobility, and Flare gun and Manmelter(as long as you have crits stored) is better for single target burst damage. Shotgun is universal and quite good against enemy pyros. I find Scorch shot just inferior to specialized secondary weapons, but is easy to use and spammable and can be quite annoying for certain classes to deal with(unaware snipers, revved heavies).
Not gana lie I used to use the scorchshot then I realized how off my aim was with my flare gun, sniper, and even pipes. When I started to use the flare again it all went back to normal and I started having fun
With the degreaser, flare gun and the Axtinguisher You feel like you are playing a Devil may cry level when you manage to do all sorts of flashy stuff with combos.
After watching this video and learning more about the Detonator, my performance has increased so much when I managed to get the detonation time right, so thanks Fish! Finally found my TF2 weapon!
From the wiki: "Flare guns and burning arrows apply 7.5 [15 ticks] seconds of afterburn... Additional hits from these weapons will restart the duration of the afterburn." In your video: 20 initial damage, 4 damage from first afterburn tick, 26 damage from mini-crit flare drop explosion. Followed by 19 (???) ticks of afterburn for an additional 76 damage, which should be impossible from a single scorch shot hit. The weapon is currently bugged and is stacking it afterburn instead of resetting it. That's the only reason it can one-shot a light class.
I feel like the scorch shot wouldn't be so hated if it could just pick a lane: if it wants to lock down a radius, reduce damage and/or afterburn while removing the bouncing flare If it wants to be able to hit targets twice, it should reduce the radius This is coming from a huge scorch shot fan
I dont care enough to find it again but someone made an awesome video of using the scorch shot creatively. A lot of the stuff only was possible with the bounce, but still I would leave it to suffer in a moist, mold filled barrel of vinegar in its current state.
actually, if it wants to pick the lane of area control, the bouncing flare would not be a bad thing (as long as the initial hit has greatly reduced damage, and the bouncing flare does even less). It’d be a unique thing that increases area denial.
tbh i try to use the scorch shot as a tool of "messing around" basically i dont try to hit at all but i actually do when i hit snipers because "insta-kill infinite range hitscan" is hard to counter unless you use it, mostly because "switch to sniper to be assaulted by scouts and soldiers since they assault you" is a thing i have happen often lol
People exaggerate how annoying the scorch shot is to fight. Literally every class has broken weapons that overshadow the others yet competetive tryhards seethe endlessly about a little handcannon because having to actually dodge a projectile or position themselves better is too much of a foreign concept for those egotistical jackasses to comprehend.
@Coolie_O Exactly, the scorch shot has a faster projectile speed than the DIRECT HIT while also having a way bigger splash radius. It’s literally fucking impossible to dodge unless you’re a scout or the flare explodes far enough behind you.
It’s not an upgraded rocket launcher by any means; it replaces instant damage with damage over time, which you can remove and heal from. Unless your entire team is in fireball formation for some reason, it will not do as much damage as an actual rocket launcher. I do agree that to emphasise this point, the direct damage from the flare should be further reduced to, say, 30% of stock flare, but keep all of the other effects. Now you have a weapon that is specialised for harassing people, without having it outright kill things.
sorry that your replies was override by a jackassk called uber d who probably didn't watch the video, but I respect that. as long as you're only using a weapon to counter another weapon that's unfair to fight against, you could be using the valve rocket launcher for all I care
Wait what is the rhetorical counter to "why would I care about my enemies having fun?". Why on Earth would I care about the god-like sniper on the other team? Why should I be instantly killed upon peaking out of anywhere to just think "well at least he's having fun!"
As someone who went from using the scorch shot to using the shotgun I have one thing to say: I used it so much almost completely out of how good it felt to use (and also how dope it looks) It was always satisfying to see that thing bounce off of enemies and whatnot But i switched to shotgun cause i learned how much less useless pyro feels when he has that gun instead It's satisfying to bounce a flare and ignite people, but nowadays i've come to find finishing off a fleeing COWARD with a shotgun is much more enjoyable, than any other secondary Edit: (note, i went on a bit of a rant..) Okay why'd you have to go and say it counters snipers so well Fuck, i hate snipers so much and now i _want_ to use it just to ruin their day for ruining mine Dammit dammit dammit You have no idea how frustrating it is when a good sniper shows up I suck at sniper, and every single fucking time a good sniper does appear, i have to play the game drastically different Avoiding ALL the sightlines i might get shot from, and playing that way is just not fun at all It feels like my access to 66% of the map just got cut off, and trying to deal with the sniper accomplishes nothing but further frustrating me Cause they've usually got a team around them and there's no counter to sniper except being better than them at their own job And now that you've said that, and now that i'm thinking about it I think i'll go back to using it when ever a good sniper shows up, sorry pal, but now i have a way to return the frustration they deliver
Also, if i were to redesign the Scorch Shot I'd split it into two guns One that bounces, and one that explodes Not gonna bother going further with this idea, you can figure out for yourself what that might imply Also-also 90% certain there's no stunlock It's just the flare knocking players into the air Also, your fix doesn't seem to change much, i reckon it can still become annoying easily
@@spartanwar1185 Wouldn't even really have to split it. Primary fire bounces, secondary fire explodes. Uses the same ammo pool for both. That gives the Pyro a way to still use the Scorch Shot without it being quite as directly powerful, because they have to choose "Do I want a bouncing flare or do I want an exploding flare?" I mean, I stopped playing TF2 right around the time the Scorch Shot came out, so I'm a bit out of date on what it's like. My two main Pyro loadouts were fairly simple, but I thought they were fun. Backburner, Manmelter, Sharpened Volcano Fragment. Fairly straightforward Ambush Pyro. Backburner does a lot of damage from behind, great for catching people off-guard. Manmelter lets me extinguish my team without expending too much fuel for my flamethrower. Sharpened Volcano Fragment because 1: it's embarrassing to die to it, and 2: I've gotten a few kills off of the afterburn because people thought they could tank one melee hit, only to find out that, nope, they were just low enough for the afterburn to get them. Stock Flamethrower, Detonator, Sharpened Volcano Fragment. Fairly straightforward Attack Pyro. Stock Flamethrower because of the better airblast. Detonator for being obnoxious at choke points with detonated flares. SVF because of the same reasons mentioned above. Sometimes I'd mix things up a bit and go with the Detonator and Backburner together. Brutal amounts of damage, but no real ability to help the team because, well, I'm then a Pyro who never extinguishes teammates. Alternatively, Stock Flame + Manmelter was a good combo, my go to for flare-spamming a choke point. Alt fire to extinguish teammates on both weapons, letting me be helpful, all while also letting me chuck infinite flares at my enemies.
@@DakalaShadeWhy have 2 weapons? If you want to choose, make it commital. Make 2 weapons, one with a bouncing flare and knockback on only burning opponents, the other with splash damage. Call the other one the he'll raiser or something.
Why you so mad about snipers just get someone to go spy or scout and tell their o my job is to keep that sniper dead Someone: well but sniper can use the razo- SPY HAS AN GUN more specifically the ambassador If the spy knows how to fool people with disguises he can get close enough to a sniper to do an max damage headshot followed by an bodyshot and the only way the enemy team can stop you is if the 1 shot you between the shots wich very few can do The sly can also use the dead ringer to not die and keep killing the sniper util he changes classes to pyro I did this like 5 times already and the sniper always gone pyro right after and I just change back to engi
Even with things like the negativity bias, you really shouldn't have to neuter what you find fun, if you do find it fun. I personally believe that the huntsman, while it doesn't stack up to the scorch shot in any way, is an annoying braindead spam weapon that only ever ruins my fun, I don't wish it deleted from the game and its users banned from playing. Just, if you find using the scorch shot genuinely fun, knock yourself out. Just don't equip it only because you want to fuck over that sniper who can actually aim
@@matthewzakrzewski1797 Or you could respect yourself AND other players, and consider its annoyances when deciding whether or not to use it. There are different things in the game that I hate to deal with, so I stopped using them myself. Unless I'm getting spawn killed, or the last round our team was getting rolled-over.
i just started playing tf2, and im not really that good at the game, i usually switch to the scorch shot when i keep dying, sort of like a "you know what, fuck you" kind of weapon, i do realize its extremely toxic but getting dominated by the whole enemy team really gets to me sometimes
@@shetodeto3021 ah yes TF2 has this weird thing about it where everyone either has 1000+ hours in the game or less than 100. You’ll get there no worries
@@techedbirb6663 Yes, they totally do. Spies are a pain in the ass for everyone and their mother. And snipers tend to be just as irritating. Even if I do like Sniper as a character Especially with all the sniper bots that keep flooding servers and ruin the fun for everyone. So yeah, I’m totally fine with spamming the fuck out of the Scorch Shot just to single out the snipers and spies 😏😉😜
The Scorch -Shit- Shot: +Hitstun +Knockback +Splash Damage +Hits Twice In One Shot +Absurd Fire Damage +Long Range +Flare Jumps +Stupidly Good At Charging The Phlog's "Mmmph" Meter +Destroys Stickies +Mini-Crits Burning Enemies +Extended Afterburn +Remarkably Fast Projectile -Projectile Rather Than Hitscan -Needs To Reload "nO gUyS, tHe ScOrCh ShOt iSn'T oVeRpOwErEd, YoU'rE jUsT bAd!"
I was playing on a casual server once and was using the regular flare gun. I set a man on fire with my flamethrower, threw him back against a wall with the airblast, then hit him directly with the flare gun for a perfect crit combo, killing him almost instantly. "Was that a scorch shot?" 'No' "Good man." That sole interaction brought me to *scrap* my only scorch shot, for it was right there that I understood just how sick of scorch shots many people were.
as a pyro main, pyro is literally not viable unless you run the scorch or the jetpack. Since they nerfed combo pyro there's literally no other way to be more useful than say, a demoman. I don't like having to use it, but it'd better than not playing pyro.
honestly, simply removing the bouncing double-hit mechanic and keeping the radius when hitting a wall or ground would be nice, even if it would stay op to farm your phlog, this is the only problem to me, you should not be able to one-shot anyone with a single flare shot.
that would just be a worse detonator. also hitting the same person twice with the same shot is never in the users control; only happens if the enemy stays still the whole time.
Ehhhh, you have to get super lucky to one shot a light class with a flare. Compared to a soldier, whose primary weapon gives him the best mobility in the game, and if you take the direct hit onetaps light classes instantly with no chance of not dying just because you got hit, while having a better fire rate, the scorch shot is annoying for spam, but not much else
That's the problem with the scorch shot, it invalidates the flare gun, leaving only the detonator as the alternative because of higher flare jumps. It's one of those weapons I use all the time because it's the easiest, but have no love for.
Honestly the Scorch Shot is the defensive Pyro's weapon of choice. Destroys stickies, reveals spies, is one of the only weapons in the game that can deal with snipers, and can help stop a push from happening.
The problem is that pyros shouldn’t be dealing with snipers, you should be dealing with your job of dealing with spies. Snipers should be dealing with snipers. Each class has a role for a reason. It’s a team based game.
@@Wondereggguy, so the good sniper should go fuck himself then? He shouldn’t play the game because he developed the skills after hundreds of hours of playing? Do you understand how asinine that thought process is? A good player in any class is debilitating. A good spy could cripple an entire team by haunting the engineer and back stabbing essential team members, a good engineer can hold a choke point with a well built nest, a good medic can keep his entire team from dying by managing healing and the Uber economy of a game. Good players do their jobs well. If good players are being put against bad players, that’s not a gameplay balance issue, that’s a matchmaking issue. A good player will, and should, always stomp a bad player in an FPS. Because they are better at the game. That’s literally a no brainer.
@@Wondereggguy also “there’s not much you can do”? Uh spy is a thing. If your team comp can’t have a good sniper or good spy, the counters to a class, then yes you’re going to have a bad time. That’s like saying I can only play paper in Rock Paper Scissors and keep losing to scissors. Yes. If your team doesn’t use the well established counter classes, you will get destroyed by that class. That’s how the game works. If you keep running pyros into an engie nest like it’s D-day, you’re never going to get anywhere.
12:38 False. I've used the scorch shot for 1.3k hours and I had no idea The Scorch Shot was this disgustingly broken. The first time I ever heard someone complain about it was when I first found your channel. The reason? I'm not one who has ever spent that much time looking at weapons' stats with a super keen eye. I started using the scorch shot because I tried the other flare guns and didn't particularly enjoy using the regular or the detonator. I consciously made the decision to use the option that's "less but more reliable damage" because I am more comfortable utilizing splash damage than gravitating toward maximizing damage output. It's the same reason I use the Liberty Launcher. I assure you, for many of us it was a playstyle decision rather than a blatant troll decision. I spent years of my life actively avoiding EVER TOUCHING the phlog because I wanted to avoid being the absolute asshole you seem to be calling me NOW. I have since started using other flare guns because I care about this same stigma. I appreciate everything you do to break down TF2 weapons and this video is no different. In fact, I appreciate this one potentially even more than any other because it opens my eyes to why this weapon is balanced so unfairly. I just wish that you took a step back in terms of how aggressive you were about it because I don't think most of the people that use it are the horrible monsters you make them out to be.
Ditto, Fish kinda has a stick up his arse. People aren’t villains for using a weapon in a game. Keep the ad hominems out of statistical gameplay analysis.
Once I was a lonely young sniper loitering at the other end of the map. After 100 unchecked potshots ( 5 headshots :-) )this flaming ball suddenly hit me in the face. My body started shaking, I was burning from head to toe! The impudence! How dare this no-face monster spoil my fun. I was furious. And my anger has only grown stronger with time. I will raise an army of the outraged to get you erased. Begone FLAMEBOY.
I feel like it's worth clarifying exactly what it is that "Overpowered" means in this context, because it *doesn't* mean what it seems to at face value. It doesn't mean that the weapon (here the Scorch Shot) is inarguably the "best" weapon available to the player, and it *definitely* doesn't mean the most "meta" weapons available to the player. The Scorch Shot, I understand, really isn't meta: Really good Pyros playing with and against really good players are much more likely to reach for one of the shotgun secondaries, or maybe the Detonator if they really need to flank as a Pyro, iirc. What it *does* mean is that you get a huge payoff for relatively very little effort or skill put into your play. Scorch Shot spam is the sort of thing I could probably teach my grandmother to do, knowing she's old and feeble has never touched a video game before in her life, and yet still within an hour she could be putting an appreciable dent in the enemy team if I point her toward the right chokes. That's what it means to be truly OP: you don't have to be meaningfully skilled at the game to be winning it, if you really really do have an OP loadout. Every Pyro secondary but the Scorch Shot demands a considerable amount of practice, talent, and gamesense to really get good DM out of them, but Scorch Shot only demands clicking vaguely in the direction of the enemy to be effective, and consequently it's easily the most OP of the secondaries in the sense outlined above. Pls nerf.
@@alexxx4434 even if these things were op aswell, scorch shot is still op and also ugly. phlog-wielding scorch-abusive prick can literally shoot a choke from a mile - for no risk at all and full phlog every 10-20 seconds ubers and sentries aren't even remotely op tho (except vaccinator's uber specifically but that's a different story), they power's completely dependant on teamwork - without it they're basically worthless
@@transnewt That it takes time to build, doesn't change the fact that it's still objectively OP. On the topic of scorch, in my own personal opinion and gameplay experience I just have not found scorch OP neither on receiving nor on applying end.
@@alexxx4434 With Uber you have: To build it To know when to use it To survive with it To know with who to use it And a lot of extra small things With sentries you have: To choose a playstyle that works for The match (each with it's own counters) Deal with your counters (explosive spam, backstabs, saps, uber) If you're brainless with either you can maybe do something but never accomplish anything With The scorch shot: Shot in The general enemy direction You maybe doesn't do much, but you rarely won't accomplish anything with this
I absolutely agree with the statistics and your point that the Scorch Shot is broken. There are no ACTUAL drawbacks to using it, and it ends up being a mini rocket launcher. However, I think the delivery of this video hinders your argument. Being clearly irritated and calling scorch shot users offensive names makes your argument seem like it comes from a place of finding a certain aspect of the game annoying, and less like a collected list of things that make the weapon broken. I completely agree with your argument, but I think you would get less people saying “ur just salty lmao” with a different presentation.
@@priestoffern1608 But Machina can just pierce through 4 people. And if we exclude hitscan weapons then most impactful projectiles will be Huntsman arrows and Crusader's crossbow syringe.
@@pupkins000 However, if you line up in a line and see a machina sniper, your basically asking for it; you don't even have to hit someone with the scorch shit; just spam the ground in the middle of a group
@@TheDarkCatYT Isn't it what rocket launchers, grenade launchers, sticky launchers and Detonator more effectively do? No one complains about them. Scorch shot is easier to use, more spammable and novice friendly and potentially can do more damage than Detonator if you caught multiple people in its AoE and bounce, but it doesn't make it superior to other, specialised pyro secondaries and especially to other AoE weapons.
@@pupkins000 that's the issue; the scorch shit is super fast, easy to spam, and requires zero skill. Ontop of doing damage it does maximum afterburn. Also with like a grenade launcher, it rolls if your shot misses. The scorch shit can hit even if you don't hit someone. The fact that it's so spammable with zero skill is the issue in the first place
if the scorch shot does get reworked i hope it keeps the stun/knockback, since i use that to combo with the dragon's fury a ton and it lets me pull off some sick juggles. i like the idea of making it a combo tool/pseudo airblast and less mindless to spam
Losing the AOE and the second explosion would make it a good item for inflicting stuns without being massively annoying as it currently is, and makes it take a distinct niche from the flare gun and detonator, of which it is the best of both
the stun is super bullshit and easily the most unfun part about it. at least airblast sends you somewhere, but this piece of shit stops you in your tracks as you're running away and the bastard spamming it has the time to stun you a second time and completely fuck you over this is not okay
@@somerandomgamer8504 I keep trying to reply to this but it won't let me so this time in short. yes I prefer soldiers doing that, it allows for attempts at surfs. It's simple knockback yes the scorch shot still sucks way more. It's straight up immobilisation, like if you had a weapon entirely designed around paralysing people *cough* Sandman, Natascha
The reason it does 8 more damage to buildings is because it adds both shots as one. 30 x 0.65 is rounded out to 19 in TF2 (on buildings), which adds up to 38.
My favorite moment I ever had was on 2fort. I was new and used the scorch shot to just harass snipers on the enemy team(which there was like 4-5). Then some of my teammates joined me and after 10 minutes of harassment, there were no snipers left. Some heavy’s, soldiers and an engineer with the wrangler. It’s was glorious
It really isn't incorrect though. Sniper has a counter for his two main counters: spies and enemy snipers. I wouldn't take a sniper main's word on another of his counters being "broken."
@@captaincanti It IS broken though. Using the scorch shot on an enemy sniper is effectively removing sniper’s main class function for literally no downsides due to the way flinch works. It’s comparable to the way the old pomson was where it completely shut down spies and medics. Basically, there shouldn’t be a weapon that essentially tells the other player to pick another class or uninstall the video game, it’s complete bullshit. As much as I hate the Danger Shield it’s literally the only way to deal with this annoying piece of shit.
@@sheacorduroy5565 Snipers can make an entire enemy team have to play around them due to being able to one shot literally anyone at any given moment. Why shouldn't there be classes and weapon that snipers have to play around? You shouldn't have to go demo or scout constantly just to stop some asshole with good aim from wiping your team.
Requirements for fighting Pyro as Scout: Maneuvering around the pyro, staying out of flamethrower range, hitting shots while juking potential flare shots Requirements for fighting Scout as Pyro: Hit 2 Scorch Shot splashes.
not really; if you land 2 scorch shot splashes one after the other, you die and the scout goes to find a health pack. Much better to use the flamethrower, or a shotgun if you are confident in your aim. Scouts are not supposed to run at pyro anyway; pistol shooting is safer, and if they feel lucky they can try and meatshot them after landing some initial hits. It’s the same concept as scouts vs sentries, pyros vs heavies, and everyone vs snipers on an open map.
Requirements for fighting Pyro as Scout: Bait an airblast/scorch shot so you can double-meatshot them into oblivion Requirements for fighting Scout as Pyro: Maneuver around corners and get the drop so they can't double-meatshot you into oblivion This is ofc assuming the scout has > 200 hrs, as per the scout's creed of jackasses
6:25 After several years of listening to creepypasta narrations on youtube, this is the first time I've ever heard this song used outside of such a video
Weirdly enough I never really minded the Scorch Shot. I don't use it myself, but I've never been actively bothered by it like everyone else seems to have. Odd.
The existence of the scorch shot actually soft-buffs the manmelter if you just sit around and spam its vacuum effect. This is the one and only thing I love about the scorch shot: manmelters can farm crits for days - and then immediately miss all of them because for whatever stupid reason, the manmelter emits a huge particle effect in your face when you fire a crit flare.
@@theobserver5372 Wait, you mean that the Pyro is at a disadvantage at long range, and is only good at slightly longer range than Scout while also being slower, therefore needing some weapons that can hit at a longer distance reliably?
@@isaiahmiller9142 yes, even though pyro is at a disadvantage at a range. Having something that can finish someone off if they get away from you is useful to have. Not only that the scorch shot is one of the very few counters for snipers. So you can keep the sniper population down and still play the game without getting insta killed from a mile away from something you couldn’t counteract.
@@threegordons9951 listen normally I use the shotgun and flamethrower combo. But this shitty argument of the scorch shot being op has been done to death. Go to UA-cam and search tf2 scorch shot and you will see hundreds of video repeating the same thing. Scorch shot op pls nerf valve. And it’s the same thing on fucking repeat. Nonstop scorch shot op and it gets annoying to see.
Fun fact: the scorch shot taunt kill can be aimed up and down like heavy's judgement, the animation doesn't change though so you'll basically aim foward and a flare will spawn from thin air and fly to the atmosphere, or down and hurt you. No, is not useful at all, unlike the judgement, the projectile is still a normal projectile beyond close range, is really just so you can look weird or something.
Flare Gun: Harder to hit but does more damage when it does Detonator: More forgiving, and can it multiple people, but does less damage. Manmelter: Kinda... underwhelming... its 1 main upside relies on the enemy team. Scorch shot: Can hit multiple times in 1 shot, you can turn your brain off and still do good with it.
@@jakman8515 I mean you could just use it as a tool more than a weapon, kinda like Tide Turner Demoknights and Sticky Jumper Demos, Detonator can be really insane sometimes
![[TF2] In Defense of the Scottish Resistance](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/y7uWO4QtjhA/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] In Defense of the Scottish Resistance](/img/tr.png)
![[TF2] The Scorch Shot - Reignited](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/xSYvoaTBT_k/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Bad Weapon Academy: Red Tape Recorder](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/v5JaFTnT2DQ/mqdefault.jpg)
OK, I guess this video counts as controversial since it's got a comparatively high dislike ratio and double the comments of the last episode of Bad Weapon Academy which also has double the views. So let me respond to some responses I've gotten.
1: Your data is bad and you should feel bad
I know. I wanted a higher pool of matches and I wanted to test this out while also using a Flamethrower with each weapon. I even wanted to do a few with the Scorch Shot and Phlog for the hell of it, but I just didn't have the time. I might make a follow-up video some time in the future, and by then I'll try to come up with some better data once I'm not under as much of a hard time crunch where I have to get out two high effort videos out in a month.
2: You are a Sniper main, that means your video is invalid because you are clearly biased
I made every effort to divorce myself from my favorite class, who I barely get to play anymore to begin with since the vast majority of my time in TF2 is now spent focusing on making these videos, and I didn't even mention anything about Sniper until about 13 minutes into a 17 minute video. If that mere mention suddenly invalidates everything I said previously that had nothing to do with Sniper, then I can't help you there. On the issue of bias, Pyro is easily the class least affected by the Scorch Shot, and he's also the class that happens to use it, meaning it might be worth it to consider your own potential biases as I did. If you spend the majority of your time playing Pyro with the Scorch Shot and don't see how it's annoying to fight against, then maybe there's a reason for that.
3: You complain about the Scorch Shot, but you main Sniper and Sniper is overpowered
I won't deny that Sniper has balance issues. I don't think they extend so far as to make the class on its own overpowered because I think that would require a lower skill floor. A bad Sniper is just about as good as the other team not having a player on their team which I don't think could happen for an overpowered class. Now, in the case of those select few really, really good Snipers, then problems start to emerge. To begin with, I think Sniper is not punished enough for missing. He reloads quickly and passively and has a large ammo pool so he can stay in one spot without having to make himself vulnerable by repositioning, (all issues shared with the Scorch Shot, with the exception that a Pyro on the move is far from vulnerable at close range.) As Zesty pointed out, quickscoping is also really fucking fast. I don't think Sniper's balance is perfect, but that's not what this video is about which is why I didn't go on a tangent about Sniper's balance despite what a hot button issue it is in the community at the moment.
4: The Scorch Shot isn't the most rewarding weapon, look at the Sniper Rifle and Direct Hit
This was poor wording on my part. In terms of raw damage, obviously the Scorch Shot isn't the most rewarding unless it hits the entire team at the same time while they're all on fire or something. However, it does the most shit with a single shot. A Sniper Rifle, with a single shot, just does damage, a fuckload, sure, but just damage. You don't get stunned and have damage over time inflicted by a Sniper Rifle, and the bullet doesn't bounce in the air so it can headshot you twice and inflict damage over time to your nearby teammates. In terms of the sheer amount of things that hitting someone once accomplishes, I don't think there's any competition.
5: I use the Scorch Shot because it's fun, what's the big deal? Can't you just leave it alone and let us have fun?
The idea of game balance in multiplayer games is to ensure that everyone, not just the person who uses the most powerful tools at their disposal, is having fun. If your fun is coming at the expense of everyone else's, then that's bad game design. It's not inherently bad to have something overpowered in a video game, but it is in a multiplayer game if it's 1: Easily and readily available at any time, and 2: Incredibly easy to use and abuse. Something like an Ubercharge is obviously overpowered, but it takes a long time to build up and needs to be used tactically. This doesn't apply to the Scorch Shot which is why it's poorly designed, not fun to fight and needs to be nerfed.
6: You're misusing the term "stunlock," it's a fighting game term, not an FPS one
I've often heard the term "stunlock" applied to things like pre-Jungle Inferno airblast or many mechanics in Overwatch (part of why I never touched that shit,) and so applied it to the Scorch Shot. I understand its origins in fighting games, I just didn't realize the term was that restrictive.
7: You are just mad because you are angry
Yes but in five minutes I'll stop being angry, but you'll never stop being a Pyro main.
8: How dare you have an opinion (+that differs from mine in any way.)
I 100% agree with everything in this video. The scorch shot could have been just fine as a sort of "practice" detonator, but they HAD to make it the biggest crutch.
Sniper’s balance, spy’s with bad internet connection, or scorch shit pyros. I honestly can’t decide which issue is the worst of these three
that last one hurts because a real pyro main wouldnt touch the scorch shot with a mile long stick
seventh response. fucking savage
Learning to switch from Scorch Shot to the normal Flare Gun is the tf2 equivalent of getting over a drug addiction
I can testify for this
One of my first drops was the Scorch Shot and when I got the flare gun like the next day I was able to switch while I had the chance
Or like from learning to drive an automatic car to a manual shift
And learning the Detonator is like using a better drug.
@@Dog-999i like using weed. Your tf2 “family” will be really uncomfortable with it, maybe they’ll even say something about it, but you know what it does for you, and fellow detonators can respect the skill it takes
The hidden stat is that is decreases enemy's patience by 80%
No by 100%
And injects 200% of ANNOYANCE level
Laughs in mmmrrrhhh
Even the Medics that devote themselves to their team would break out the fucking blutsauger if they got killed by that.
Increases sodium content of the server by 100%
'the other flare guns are really fun'
Manmelter: "yOu LOve mE fAthEr?"
'...not you...'
This is kinda ironic since the Mannmelter is the best counter to the Scorch Crap, but only if you know how to aim with it
@@shadowycaptain scorch shit
@@shadowycaptain he probably with cover this in his video about the man melter
rip manmelter
@@shadowycaptain even if you can't aim with it atleast you have an infinite fire removal resources
I feel like if this guy was trapped on an island and the only flare he could use to signal for help was just the scorch shot, he would just try to survive on the island
Wrong.
He would start a fire of course to start his little island survival life he gets a fire going to y'know cook some food, get heat.
Then he jumps into the fire and starts burning alive see you'd think he'd be screaming in agony from the flames but he's actually happy because this is where the scorch shot comes in.
He shoots himself with the scorch shot while burning alive and mini-crits himself for the ez free kill.
*Tries to signal for help*
*The flare somehow lights the ship on fire and everyone dies*
@@sadtoaster6341Cringe
Dude what the fuck 💀@@sadtoaster6341
You can hear his genuine burning hatred for the scorch shot grow more and more as the video goes on
He is right so whatever ?
@@chinthescrew4907 whoosh
@@nullproxy9639 ok .
@@nullproxy9639 that's going in the reddit cringe folder.
@@nikolasmtr pog
7:24 "Oh, he's smart."
7:37 "Oh, he's still smart."
A sad Spy story told in just a few seconds.
F to pay respect .
F
That's kinda funny as well, as it means the spy knows he's too stupid to pull off some plan to kill someone like him, and that's always funnier than them raging about how it's not their fault as it just isn't tired at this point.
Switching to Scorch Shot be like:
You will spawn as soldier
More dmg than soldier in ideal scenario.....
Wait, the ideal scenario is where no one uses the scorch shot
@@davidmingle5910 More damage than a soldier vs the tr_walkway bots (with ideal settings). Not in any practical scenario. Who cares about tr_walkway bots? When discussing game balance you should only be concerned about real game scenarios and in a real game people are not going to stand still so they get hit by the mini crit, and they will seek a medic or any one of the myriad other ways to get rid of afterburn.
@@Hedning1390 "they're not gonna stand still" do you know something called that IS on this weapon? The name is *stun*
@@ihatethis103 Try playing the game instead of trusting what some youtuber says. You can even see even in this video how players are not getting hit twice, only the bots that are standing still in tr walkway are getting hit twice. It's not a stun, it's a knockback. Even reved up heavies can avoid the second hit.
@@Hedning1390 do you think i didn't played? Of course the players aren't gonna stand in the same fucking place they're going to run, of course It isn't Common this thing happening but Just cuz It doesn't happen Very often doesn't mean It still should be in the game, by that logic soldiers Rocket should have a chance to wipe out the entire enemy team and Just cuz It doesn't happen Very often It should stay in the game
I remember using the scorch shot BEFORE the gun mettle update. You know, when it had the explosion radius of the detonator, a little knockback, and none of the crits. I loved that thing. I'd occasionally get called a shitter because the other flare guns were meta, but now I'm a shitter because it IS the meta.
Fuck the meta, use weapons which you enjoy and to hell with naysayers
Damned if you do damned if you dont
If you play pyro youll always get hate at some point
Scorch shot is blatantly overpowered
@@theminuskai7453 reminds me of Ace the ocarina makers video before Jungle Inferno came out.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming stickbomb go
Kyahhhbooooooooom
Just got done watching the premiere and I can confirm the chat was in a war.
what happened?
@@bananaman6046 war that's what happened
"I have come to the conclusion that premieres were a fucking mistake."
- FSoaS
@@bananaman6046 *W A R*
What was the war about?
the implication that the Manmelter counters the Scorch Shot terrifies and excites me
Well, it gives you critical shots for extinguishing teammates, who you're gonna have plenty when enemy Pyro uses Scorch-Shit.
Wait
WAIT
OH MY FUCKING GOD
You're finally learning how to play with counters, good job son.
crit farm
crit farm
Oh god
Counter phlog pyro-
I love how it's not just
"The Scorch Shot is Bad/Terrible"
But
"The Scorch Shit is *EVIL* "
EVIL!
EVIL then the every JoJo villain.
It's because the weapon isn't bad, it's too good.
that's because it is. scorch shot really is the most broken weapon in tf2.
My man is so salty over a game lmao.
Playing with the Scorch Shot is basically making an accurate re-enaction of "Meet the Pyro"
I mean he litterally uses it in the video. So yeah
Reenactment*
@@Succer*Reënactment
another note is that the scorch shot actually deals the most damage to buildings out of all the flare guns. the normal flare gun deals 30, detonator deals 23, but the scorch shot deals 36 for some reason.
Legit never knew that.
Kinda like how the dragon’s fury absolutely shreds through buildings because they’re treated as if it’s a burning player
@@violetchan6402
To be fair, buildings can’t be lit by a dragon’s fury, so it’s only fair to allow it to be able to fight a building with decent damage, considering it’s a primary weapon. In the case of the scorch shot, a secondary item, there’s literally no reason.
I think is because it doesn't let the flare bounce but it is still hit directly so it takes both direct and splash damage???
Funny thing. Dragon fury is.... bad
Another pyro can repel the dragon fury shot with an air blast, i dont fucking know why and when i first did this against a pyro it melted my brain
The fact that the scorch shot's explosive radius is about 20% less than the actual rocket launcher really says something.
soldier is a skillful class :)
@@mattzr1550 pyro too
Fun fact, in TFC, pyro had an incendiary rocket launcher as one of his weapons. I think this was the inspiration for the flare guns. Or also the cowmangler.
"The Incendiary Cannon is a weapon in Team Fortress Classic games and is only used by the Pyro. It launches rockets that set targets within its blast radius on fire, even through walls. The rockets fired by the Incendiary Cannon are as fast as those fired by the Rocket Launcher [the biggest major difference], but deal reduced damage. Unlike the Rocket Launcher, it does not need to be reloaded. In all its incarnations, the Incendiary Cannon is the only weapon that can set targets on fire at anything other than close range.
While the player can rocket jump with the Incendiary Cannon, it will not propel the player as far as the Rocket Launcher. On the upside, it will do much less damage than using the Rocket Launcher would.
The amount of ammo consumed by the weapon depends on the game; in Quake Team Fortress it uses three rockets per shot. In Team Fortress Classic, it uses one rocket per shot."
@Cristophorus Colombus im talking about airblast
It says: remove explosive radius debuff.
Flare Gun: Rewards good aim with long-ranged damage, which is important for a close-ranged class.
Scorch Shot: Rewards shooting anywhere within a 5 mile radius of an enemy with making them want to delete the game
@Chonghan L Cope pyro main who thinks that maining a class composed of band aid mechanics and gimmicks is helpful.
@Chonghan L pov : you're mad at snipers because you can't aim
@@idress8340 cope head click main
@Chonghan L Most of the shit he brings up isnt even related to sniper
Detonator: doesn't reward you anymore than the scorch shit
Mannmelter: rewards you for putting out your teammates
The thing is I hope this weapon gets nerfed not because I hate it, but because I love using it. As a Pybro style pyro, the explosion makes it a great tool for harrasing anyone trying to take long distance pot shots at my engineer, but the bouncing flare stunning and be able to mini-crit like it does is undeniably stupid
as a pybro myself I will back you up on this.
As a engineer main, I can't decide if I hate you or love you.
:) nah
As someone who also loves the Scorch Shot, hard agree. Long-range flare explosions are fantastic, I love it. But the bouncing flare is just way too strong, and I agree on it being undeniably stupid.
Same here, the scorch shot is the ultimate defensive secondary tool for pyro and should be used as such, much like how the detonator is the same but for offensive use. The stigma it has for braindead spam is undeserved, because it's not braindead just spam, which, like it or not is a big part of TF2. The scorch shot is a good method of force multiplication for defense in a similar (but not as effective) way to the sentry gun, letting you further disuade people from pushing in. After two shots of the scorch shot, any unprepared offensive will be sent retreating to rethink their choices. This is why I think it should have lower splash radius and splash damage, and halved afterburn duration. This way it would work just as well as a defensive weapon without being wayyyy too powerful
Oh believe me. The scorch shot has a special place in my loadout reserved for that stereotypical sniper that mercilessly pubstomps my team.
same.
I make my living out of causing snipers to switch to scout to get even.
"Oh you wanna play rough.... *you can't handle rough!* "
Listen, you gotta do what you gotta do.
I have a fond memory where there were four snipers along the balcony in 2fort. They were wreaking havoc but two pyros opened up with scorches and kept them suppressed. There was much burning and running
I use it on Bots (MvM) or Bots (Casual), as they're not real people and I don't need to worry about if they're having fun or not. Aside from that I just feel bad though, what right would I have to complain about it if I used it a lot?
I stand in front of the snipers scope because I like for everyone to have fun
This man hates the Scorch shot so much that he did MATH, let that sink in for a minute.
He hates math, but he hates the Scorch Shot even more
he doesnt hate it as much as i do
As a pyro main with the tiniest bit of skill and some actual respect for enemy gamers, I despise the Phlogistinator with a *hehe* burning passion.
After seeing the numbers on this, I'd sooner use the Froschenverfer.
@@Attaxalotl the phlog isnt even that bad lol, its super easy to counter and it requires good timing and positioning
Math is fun
This weapon is better at spychecking than the actual flamethrower, wtf
I hate that its true like wtf valve
The only reason I’d see myself using this thing, is if I were using the dragon’s fury, because that thing just can’t spy check.
I just use it so I donXt have to walk into every corner to check for spies.
No it's not? Flamethrowers way better.
Besides that I totally agree and I'm a pyro main.
And then on the other end of the spectrum we have the sand man, making you basically a noodle for the reward of slowing down one enemy occasionally if you hit a point blank shot with the curved projectile, so ye :D
Sandman, Atomizer, BONK, Shortstop. Up next: Scorch Shot
That weapon did not deserve to be nerfed into the piece of junk it is now. I want my sand man back.
Edit: AND the flying Guillotine crit.
@@MattNotFat the flying guillotine would probably be fine if it wasn't a stun weapon that boosted your damage
@@PearoIGuess It wasn't. The sandman did that and now it does nothing.
@@MattNotFat what i said was, they could have made another weapon give the gulitine crits
*Pryro spamming scorch shot*
*Me with Man Melter:* "This is where the fun begins"
I would actually see it as a fun game between Pyro's
Pryro mains lol
Me flying behind the enemy pyro with a jetpack: nothing personal, kid
brooo finally the 10th class is here
pryro
almost every time I see a scorch shot pyro on the other team ill switch to the manmelter for the hundreds of free crits. there's something satisfying about picking up 12 crits in under 10 seconds and then two tapping the scorch pyro with said crits.
5:50 if I had a nickel for every time *that* happened, I'd be comparable to Tony Stark's bank account.
You'd be richer then him .
You _use_ the thing?
@@usernametaken017 *used
"They know it is broken and they love abusing it".
B4nny when playing pyro.
They hate B4nny because he told the truth
When your goal is to win in tf2 while playing by the rules the scorch shot is the best gun for that task. It's not like your cheating this was intentionally put in the game and people aren't toxic for using it. It's like calling soldier mains toxic for rocket jumping because its really effective or saying people who main sniper are toxic because sniper is such a good class. Seriously, sniper is kinda op. My man is just salty because he got roasted by pyros one to many times.
@@margerald1 well rocket jumping takes skill.
@@dogmeat1414 so does the scorch shot. It does take a bit of skill, maybe less than the flare gun but you do still need to aim. To get the most out of the scorch shot you need to hit all your shots and make use of mini crits.
@@margerald1 i can do well with scorch shot by shooting the ground near people. It takes very very little skill lol
one day i was using degreaser and panic atack and someone said to me "the old meta,you have my respect"
this was the only good thing someone has ever said to me when i went pyro
Pre-premier: 17 min rant woo (according to the description)
He fucking lied, the videos 16 mins 56 secs, I can't support a lier, unsubscribed 😤😡😠😡😠😤
@@ALIEN-DUDE cancel him on twitter.com
@@Akunai_ I've already tried 😡😠😤😡
If the scorch shot was the step brother to the reserve shooter, it would be the closest thing to an actual brother.
Reserve Shootet was the most annoying weapon in the game then it got nerfed and balanced ( it is good on Soldier but bad on pyro ) . Hope same happens to Scorch Shot to .
@@chinthescrew4907 i think the reserve shooter should be changed to give it some uses on pyro, obviously not the ability to crit by pressing M2 and M1 but it's kind of weird that they are still able to equip it.
@@The_WhitePencil It can counter flying Soldier and Demoman, that's niche but that's still a good utility
@@vivelespatat2670 kind of weird to have yet another counter for the classes that pyro already counters though? Like, maybe trolldier or parachute demo...
Scorch shot has one positive, it gives free manmelter crits with 5 people being extinguished at once
Isn't it really more of a negative, because a positive would imply that the person using it would benefit from it?
@@lenakarlsson2404 At this point for me, the only way to view the Scorch Shot positively is from a perspective at which the user is being disadvantaged.
Wait, does it give crits when extinguishing 5 people?
@@mikethegoo yes , the weapon mannmelter,which was served as a niche alternative for airblast, has became the absolute counter to scorch shot as his aoe extinguish and earning crits per burning player when doing that
@@PissJohn Interesting. I forgot about its exact functions, but that seems handy
Here’s the thing bout secondaries for pyro
Yea, you can use one of the 2 skill based flares
Yea, you can use the fire rocket launcher
Yea, you can use shotguns
Yea, you can use a can of uselessness
But me? I think I like my J E T P A C K
based
I usually use the scorch shot, but I switch to jetpack as soon as a sniper i killed starts complaining about "muh op weapon, muh coward no skill"; so i fly to him and burn him with my flamethrower
Manmelter:
@@angelogaray8019 the manmelter does not exist. It's a figment of your imagination.
i'll uh, get a strange killstreak scorch shot and name it "Scorch Shit" just for you
Dow it
Mines named wrath :)
Send a screenshot
The fact alone that the Scorch Shot can one shot light classes makes it over shadow all the other flare guns. At least with the flare gun you have to combo it, and the detonator is just completely over shadowed even with its capability to jump higher.
people are like 'that's unrealistic lmao' or straight up don't include the afterburn reset into their damage calcs. Guess what? If you AIM with this thing, you can pull off a rocket juggle (yes that's right) on a MOVING target by shooting their feet, which bounces them up in the air, stuns them a bit, which is more than enough time for the shot to land and REINFLICT AFTERBURN. This adds up to more than 125 damage if you don't get healed fast enough, and can be somewhat uncommonly pulled off in a choke.
@@kerbonaut2059 So basically the old reserve shooter finally having the last laugh
@@QuokkaCore no it’s not, the detonator is balance around the fact that is use for control of masses is not supposed to be used for burst damage and you are probably using it wrong if you think that.
@@QuokkaCore overrated? i never see it really being talked about or used much, especially cause the regular flare gun or shorch shit are much better. flare jumps are flashy as hell though and i like that, i use the detonator if i feel like having fun. in the hands of the right person (not me lol) it can also be a fantastic utility for moving around without as much of the predictability of the jetpack.
@@QuokkaCore but the powerjack doesn't give you some additional vertical mobility, plus it isn't as good as closing the gap between you and your target as the detonator's flare jump is. you can not like using the detonator, but you can't deny that it has some valuable utility to it that, once mastered, can make you a powerful opponent.
although i personally prefer using back scratcher or axtinguisher over the jack, so i guess that affects my opinion on the detonator's flare jumps..
I love that it only took 8:50 for you to say exactly what I've called it, "A rocket launcher with free damage over time."
So cow mangler
@@Anemeethious without damage
@@Anemeethious You still have to do work with the Cow Mangler. There's still a reload time, and a charge time to fire the one shot. You can probably do twice as much single target damage with the Scorch Shot in the same time you get to fire and reload the Cow Mangler.
I mean it's fucking accurate considering it ALMOST HAS A SPLASH AREA OF A ROCKET
@@mylittlepogchamp112 slightly more than half = almost the same? Interesting
Me in the background who constantly uses it just for the tauntkill:
Farm crits by shooting at a wall until you get a crit then every taunt will be a crit
I love the taunt kill. It just looks so badass.
You are one of the hidden angels of this game
only respectable way to use the scorch shit
video - about pyro
youtuber - is sniper main
chat - EnGinEER GaMInG
Tf2 fans are funny I swear
Milking an already crappy meme dry.
@@mysoncrumphaseveryinjury3853 so basically every meme ever?
@@toniotrussardi8126 nah, this community in particular has took this practice to the entire new level so much that even the most deviant Keanuchungustards would tremble.
Not related to the topic, but I respect the amount of soundtracks used from Silent Hill.
I've probably listened to the Silent Hill 2 ost more than any actual music album
I like the music but it kinda makes me feel like this video is going to cut away and become a creepypasta video since Silent Hill's ost is used all the time in those vids.
But still related to the video
Detonator gang!
I need my higher jumps, I remember trying the scorch shot once and I immediately felt the height difference and never looked back
you are NOT gonna point out how the detonator is better than the scorch shot when it comes to pestering snipers?
@@unbanquackityishot327 some people just wanna fly
Detonator in my opinion needs a buff to the jumping
cuz if they rework the jetpack to be actually good the Detonator will be obsolete from a mobility standpoint
@@nexusthenormie5578 hard disagree. The detonator is great for AOE damage and the mobility is just a cherry on top, plus it already opens up a lot of routes for the pyro
8:05 SoundSmith artificially inflates the scores of Engineers and Pyros
The reason why Fish placed Silent Hill 2 music in the background because it is more evil than James's consciousness.
What james who?
@@dimitriwarchief301 The guy from silent hill 2, those horrifying monsters he fought are part of his mind
I wonder what the scorch shot would be like if the flare had a speed penalty, forcing the pyro to have to aim way more ahead of their target and allowing the enemy to predict it better.
might as well make it a true area denial weapon: retain knockback on hit, reduce explosion radius slightly, remove the damage that it deals on hit (i.e. it only sets people on fire) and reduce projectile speed. change its interactions with phlog so it doesn’t go crazy (maybe a reduced charge rate).
that way, scorch shot pyros can do the thing they always wanted to do: irritate enemies to no end, but without killing them (which may be a fate worse than death)
Or maybe not have the annoying bouncing thingy.. the main reason it overpowerd. Spamming it is inconvenient, but literally killing a light class with ONE flare is a absurd
@@TheOneWhoHasABadName This would change my entire existence as someone who mostly plays Scout.
That would be a very terrible idea for pyros. Pyro is a mobile class that depends on fast speed. Slowing down is basically entirely against what the classis supposed to do.
Imagine a scout pistol slowly you down as you fired. It would essentially kill the weapon.
@@compatriot852 the flares already fire at an extremely fast velocity
I was thinking of making it about the speed of a normal rocket or a little less
I suggested this mainly because i feel like the scorch shot wants to be a sorta fire explosive
Like a rocket launcher for the pyro
But the issue is it does really perform differently from the other flare guns
Although simply removing the bouncing flare should be enough
I feel like it would be interesting if it perhaps had a slower projectile speed forcing it to be used more as area denial
Of course it would need something to maybe help it perform a little better in that aspect
Like increasing the explosion radius slightly but reducing the after burn slightly to compensate
Now I feel guilty about the time when the scorch shot was the only flare gun I had and I didn’t know it was so busted.
I don’t even remember if I used it that often, but still
I got buffed in the Gun Mettle update, so if you used it before then it was just a shitty detonator that you didn't have to time.
Been there, until I got the flare gun in a random drop
I remember WAY back when Meet the Pyro came out, and our Pyro main Ryusuta hated the Scorch Shot because it was underwhelming....my God how the game has changed.
It's kinda funny how it predicted the current state of the weapon
I think you're mis-using the term "stunlock" pretty significantly here. In video games, a "stun" effect is one which temporarily stops the affected character from moving or taking any actions, such as McCree's Flashbang (Overwatch) or Ashe's ultimate (League of Legends). The term "stunlock" describes an event in which one or more characters are affected by multiple different stun effects in rapid succession such that they cannot control their character at all for a dangerously long period of time. An example of this is that, in many fighting games, every attack that connects stuns the opponent for a brief amount of time, such that chaining attacks together in a very precise manner leads to "combos" that can stunlock the opponent for a significant stretch of time, dealing damage all the while.
The scorch shot does not stunlock, at least not on its own. Technically speaking, it doesn't even stun. All that the scorch shot does is knock up the target, temporarily limiting the target's ability to control their movement, but in no way hampering the target's ability to aim, shoot, use items, or take other actions.
The scorch shot is definitely an example of a crowd control ability, an umbrella term which includes everything from stuns to knockups to pulls to disabling effects, but it is not in and of itself a "stunlock," nor does it have a "stunlock ability."
People who are anti stun don't even understand whst CC is, they just spout words because they're salty
Apparently, anything that knockback is a stun nowadays. If you can shoot, you ain't stunned. Disoriented, displaced, but not stunned or disarmed.
@Coolie_O It doesn't give you a speed debuff. you can never accelerate while in the air (air-strafing is arguably a glitch, and negligible anyways) outside of the scout's double-jump, which you can activate at any time, even immediately after being hit by the SS. the knockback it deals is no different from explosive knockback. It bumps you up into the air very similarly to a single sticky being detonated at your feet
"Such blatantly poor weapon design, that I don't even know how this thing made it through testing"
Let me just get a laundry list of dogshit weapons right here...
Valve is so bad at balancing things, huh ?
beggars moment
@@chinthescrew4907
**Checks long list of mediocre and useless weapons**
Yeah, kinda
The Sharpened volcano fragment
@@threegordons9951 Except that thing has an excuse, literally canonly pulled out of a dumpster by soldier, canon garbage, but this thing is vicious
>Actively being punished with less damage for trying to use your brain
This is most accurate description of TF2 in a whole. At least in my experience
It's more skill based than brain based, so kinda accurate. The items that are simpler are more reliable and efficient at their job, while gimmicks are usually worse and don't do as well.
But Fish, I was playing TF2 specifically to AVOID doing this one thing!
Most of the sidegrades are like this.
There's a reason full-Stock is the best option for most of the classes in the game.
@@auraguard0212 Because it's the easiest. Most unlocks crumble just because of the mere existence of random crits. The rest are not balanced for the game 12v12 (standard casual), and lose because of the impossibility of banal spam and aoe for many targets.
My take away from this is that the scorch shot is underpowered and needs a buff.
Show me that buff then mister big brain. This thing is annoying enough when you spam it, what more do you want?
@@45.chuminh81 I'm taking the piss dw.
I highly doubt that FishStickOnAStick would endorse a buff on the scorch shot.
@@datnoob4394 I doubt he even knows how easy it is to counter the scorch
@@thebushbros6626 How to counter the Scorch Shot:
"Dodge".
@@thebushbros6626 how do you counter it?
Its such a shame that in my opinion the coolest looking flare gun has to be this demonspawn.
Coolest looking? That would go to the det
@@entername4133 opinion
@@toastie8173 it is all about opinion, the scorch shot is the mos realistic looking
@@entername4133 what if i think realism is cool and thats my opinion?
@@toastie8173 bro are you mad? I literally just said that it’s all about opinion
As a flare gun pyro I'd say that the flare is really good for the puff and sting (aka a one on one fight) but the scorch just dominates at everything else
I don't agree. Scorch shot is better as spamming and dealing AoE damage, while Detonator is much better for mobility, and Flare gun and Manmelter(as long as you have crits stored) is better for single target burst damage. Shotgun is universal and quite good against enemy pyros. I find Scorch shot just inferior to specialized secondary weapons, but is easy to use and spammable and can be quite annoying for certain classes to deal with(unaware snipers, revved heavies).
"The scorch shot is evil!"
"From my point of view the snipers are evil"
this is a great reply
No.....
honestly anakin's right, snipers are evil lol
Not gana lie I used to use the scorchshot then I realized how off my aim was with my flare gun, sniper, and even pipes. When I started to use the flare again it all went back to normal and I started having fun
With the degreaser, flare gun and the Axtinguisher You feel like you are playing a Devil may cry level when you manage to do all sorts of flashy stuff with combos.
You know a weapon is evil when it's not a primary but you can use it as one and still perform just as well
Mediguns evil confirmed
@@candlescouncil5280 in the wrong hands a medigun is the most evil think that can exist
Stickybomb launcher is Satan incarnate
@@Mikimaki7267 yep, just think of all the spawn camper demos
@@demogaming8895 very true, the bane of many servers
That's it you've convinced me, I'm NEVER using the scorch shot again..... unless my friend gets autobalanced to the other team
You'll do a little trolling .
griff went to rehab
After watching this video and learning more about the Detonator, my performance has increased so much when I managed to get the detonation time right, so thanks Fish! Finally found my TF2 weapon!
From the wiki: "Flare guns and burning arrows apply 7.5 [15 ticks] seconds of afterburn... Additional hits from these weapons will restart the duration of the afterburn."
In your video:
20 initial damage, 4 damage from first afterburn tick, 26 damage from mini-crit flare drop explosion.
Followed by 19 (???) ticks of afterburn for an additional 76 damage, which should be impossible from a single scorch shot hit.
The weapon is currently bugged and is stacking it afterburn instead of resetting it. That's the only reason it can one-shot a light class.
*SOURCE* S P A G H E T T I
Afterburn is mini critted as well
Well, they fixed the Gas Passer a little while ago. Maybe the Scorch Shot is next?
I feel like the scorch shot wouldn't be so hated if it could just pick a lane:
if it wants to lock down a radius, reduce damage and/or afterburn while removing the bouncing flare
If it wants to be able to hit targets twice, it should reduce the radius
This is coming from a huge scorch shot fan
I dont care enough to find it again but someone made an awesome video of using the scorch shot creatively. A lot of the stuff only was possible with the bounce, but still I would leave it to suffer in a moist, mold filled barrel of vinegar in its current state.
actually, if it wants to pick the lane of area control, the bouncing flare would not be a bad thing (as long as the initial hit has greatly reduced damage, and the bouncing flare does even less). It’d be a unique thing that increases area denial.
because of it's design, i believe it was supposed to be a super tool, before the jet-pack.
Before the premiere, I read the description and one of the music used is BFG Division. Ohhh boy we are in for a treat.
Yup hes gonna rip and tear
tbh i try to use the scorch shot as a tool of "messing around" basically i dont try to hit at all but i actually do when i hit snipers because "insta-kill infinite range hitscan" is hard to counter unless you use it, mostly because "switch to sniper to be assaulted by scouts and soldiers since they assault you" is a thing i have happen often lol
People exaggerate how annoying the scorch shot is to fight. Literally every class has broken weapons that overshadow the others yet competetive tryhards seethe endlessly about a little handcannon because having to actually dodge a projectile or position themselves better is too much of a foreign concept for those egotistical jackasses to comprehend.
@Coolie_O Exactly, the scorch shot has a faster projectile speed than the DIRECT HIT while also having a way bigger splash radius. It’s literally fucking impossible to dodge unless you’re a scout or the flare explodes far enough behind you.
It’s not an upgraded rocket launcher by any means; it replaces instant damage with damage over time, which you can remove and heal from. Unless your entire team is in fireball formation for some reason, it will not do as much damage as an actual rocket launcher.
I do agree that to emphasise this point, the direct damage from the flare should be further reduced to, say, 30% of stock flare, but keep all of the other effects. Now you have a weapon that is specialised for harassing people, without having it outright kill things.
sorry that your replies was override by a jackassk called uber d who probably didn't watch the video, but I respect that. as long as you're only using a weapon to counter another weapon that's unfair to fight against, you could be using the valve rocket launcher for all I care
Wait what is the rhetorical counter to "why would I care about my enemies having fun?". Why on Earth would I care about the god-like sniper on the other team? Why should I be instantly killed upon peaking out of anywhere to just think "well at least he's having fun!"
Also every criticism you have in this video perfectly applies to the sniper.
@@ScatterBrainedYouBetterFollow not really
@@LuckyPhuck Thanks for the input
welp after watching this guess I will just call this a "clutch weapon Academy"
Um excuse me sir but don’t you mean “cruch weapon academy”
@@GoodlyData86596
Crutch.
As someone who went from using the scorch shot to using the shotgun
I have one thing to say:
I used it so much almost completely out of how good it felt to use (and also how dope it looks)
It was always satisfying to see that thing bounce off of enemies and whatnot
But i switched to shotgun cause i learned how much less useless pyro feels when he has that gun instead
It's satisfying to bounce a flare and ignite people, but nowadays i've come to find finishing off a fleeing COWARD with a shotgun is much more enjoyable, than any other secondary
Edit: (note, i went on a bit of a rant..)
Okay why'd you have to go and say it counters snipers so well
Fuck, i hate snipers so much and now i _want_ to use it just to ruin their day for ruining mine
Dammit dammit dammit
You have no idea how frustrating it is when a good sniper shows up
I suck at sniper, and every single fucking time a good sniper does appear, i have to play the game drastically different
Avoiding ALL the sightlines i might get shot from, and playing that way is just not fun at all
It feels like my access to 66% of the map just got cut off, and trying to deal with the sniper accomplishes nothing but further frustrating me
Cause they've usually got a team around them and there's no counter to sniper except being better than them at their own job
And now that you've said that, and now that i'm thinking about it
I think i'll go back to using it when ever a good sniper shows up, sorry pal, but now i have a way to return the frustration they deliver
Also, if i were to redesign the Scorch Shot
I'd split it into two guns
One that bounces, and one that explodes
Not gonna bother going further with this idea, you can figure out for yourself what that might imply
Also-also
90% certain there's no stunlock
It's just the flare knocking players into the air
Also, your fix doesn't seem to change much, i reckon it can still become annoying easily
@@spartanwar1185 Wouldn't even really have to split it. Primary fire bounces, secondary fire explodes. Uses the same ammo pool for both. That gives the Pyro a way to still use the Scorch Shot without it being quite as directly powerful, because they have to choose "Do I want a bouncing flare or do I want an exploding flare?"
I mean, I stopped playing TF2 right around the time the Scorch Shot came out, so I'm a bit out of date on what it's like. My two main Pyro loadouts were fairly simple, but I thought they were fun.
Backburner, Manmelter, Sharpened Volcano Fragment.
Fairly straightforward Ambush Pyro. Backburner does a lot of damage from behind, great for catching people off-guard. Manmelter lets me extinguish my team without expending too much fuel for my flamethrower. Sharpened Volcano Fragment because 1: it's embarrassing to die to it, and 2: I've gotten a few kills off of the afterburn because people thought they could tank one melee hit, only to find out that, nope, they were just low enough for the afterburn to get them.
Stock Flamethrower, Detonator, Sharpened Volcano Fragment.
Fairly straightforward Attack Pyro. Stock Flamethrower because of the better airblast. Detonator for being obnoxious at choke points with detonated flares. SVF because of the same reasons mentioned above.
Sometimes I'd mix things up a bit and go with the Detonator and Backburner together. Brutal amounts of damage, but no real ability to help the team because, well, I'm then a Pyro who never extinguishes teammates.
Alternatively, Stock Flame + Manmelter was a good combo, my go to for flare-spamming a choke point. Alt fire to extinguish teammates on both weapons, letting me be helpful, all while also letting me chuck infinite flares at my enemies.
Now good snipers are so obnoxious they push with the team and quickscope in middle and close range... it's terrible.
@@DakalaShadeWhy have 2 weapons? If you want to choose, make it commital. Make 2 weapons, one with a bouncing flare and knockback on only burning opponents, the other with splash damage. Call the other one the he'll raiser or something.
Why you so mad about snipers just get someone to go spy or scout and tell their o my job is to keep that sniper dead
Someone: well but sniper can use the razo-
SPY HAS AN GUN more specifically the ambassador
If the spy knows how to fool people with disguises he can get close enough to a sniper to do an max damage headshot followed by an bodyshot and the only way the enemy team can stop you is if the 1 shot you between the shots wich very few can do
The sly can also use the dead ringer to not die and keep killing the sniper util he changes classes to pyro
I did this like 5 times already and the sniper always gone pyro right after and I just change back to engi
I used to abuse this weapon and not realize it, you have given me a lot to think about
Personally, it has alway been my favorite, even when I started playing the game
Even with things like the negativity bias, you really shouldn't have to neuter what you find fun, if you do find it fun. I personally believe that the huntsman, while it doesn't stack up to the scorch shot in any way, is an annoying braindead spam weapon that only ever ruins my fun, I don't wish it deleted from the game and its users banned from playing.
Just, if you find using the scorch shot genuinely fun, knock yourself out. Just don't equip it only because you want to fuck over that sniper who can actually aim
@@matthewzakrzewski1797
Or you could respect yourself AND other players, and consider its annoyances when deciding whether or not to use it.
There are different things in the game that I hate to deal with, so I stopped using them myself. Unless I'm getting spawn killed, or the last round our team was getting rolled-over.
i just started playing tf2, and im not really that good at the game, i usually switch to the scorch shot when i keep dying, sort of like a "you know what, fuck you" kind of weapon, i do realize its extremely toxic but getting dominated by the whole enemy team really gets to me sometimes
@@shetodeto3021 ah yes TF2 has this weird thing about it where everyone either has 1000+ hours in the game or less than 100. You’ll get there no worries
I find it actually hilarious that the same people who call you a salty sniper main are the same people who abuse the Scorch Shot.
Yeah but Sniper Mains drain my patience far more than a scorch shot user.
Oh please, I use the Scorch shot whenever I want to piss off the Snipers and Spies. Frankly they deserve it 😉
@@Alexzander1989 they don't but ok
@@techedbirb6663
Yes, they totally do. Spies are a pain in the ass for everyone and their mother. And snipers tend to be just as irritating. Even if I do like Sniper as a character
Especially with all the sniper bots that keep flooding servers and ruin the fun for everyone.
So yeah, I’m totally fine with spamming the fuck out of the Scorch Shot just to single out the snipers and spies 😏😉😜
@@Alexzander1989 2 of the most difficult characters to play as though....
The Scorch -Shit- Shot:
+Hitstun
+Knockback
+Splash Damage
+Hits Twice In One Shot
+Absurd Fire Damage
+Long Range
+Flare Jumps
+Stupidly Good At Charging The Phlog's "Mmmph" Meter
+Destroys Stickies
+Mini-Crits Burning Enemies
+Extended Afterburn
+Remarkably Fast Projectile
-Projectile Rather Than Hitscan
-Needs To Reload
"nO gUyS, tHe ScOrCh ShOt iSn'T oVeRpOwErEd, YoU'rE jUsT bAd!"
It feels like the Scorch Shot would be a pretty cool singleplayer weapon than multiplayer
Feels like it would be great as a special limited weapon in L4D, like the chainsaw and grenade launcher
If I had a nickel for every time I used the scorch shot I would have 2 nickels, it isn’t a lot but it’s weird it happened twice
A man of culture I see...
I'd be broke, I can happily say I've never used the scorch shot (at least not on real people)
I've used the scorch shot a few times so I would have around 4 nickels, but everytime I used it was in training mode where you fought bots.
+95% chance enemy snipers will equip danger shield
+1000% chance enemy snipers will target you and only you
Shoutout to that one guy on every x100 server that spams this thing to set the whole map ablaze
Hehehe
I strike again
I was playing on a casual server once and was using the regular flare gun.
I set a man on fire with my flamethrower, threw him back against a wall with the airblast, then hit him directly with the flare gun for a perfect crit combo, killing him almost instantly.
"Was that a scorch shot?"
'No'
"Good man."
That sole interaction brought me to *scrap* my only scorch shot, for it was right there that I understood just how sick of scorch shots many people were.
Yeah and then everyone clapped and the bus driver called you stunning and brave right?
@@uberd3323 yee
I feel bad when people say something about me being a scorch shot pyro when they die.....
I'm using the detonator tho.......
@@uberd3323 No. I've done it dozens of times before and since. I had one interaction with one rando. Get off your high horse.
Bruh, as a pyro main this is
Very true.
me too. it invalidates the other 2 flares, and its absolutely disgusting
@ScOrPiOn Games sooo a stupidly overpowered cow mangler charge
@@logitchy yeah at least the cow mangler require you to actually aim and time for the shot to charge
as a pyro main, pyro is literally not viable unless you run the scorch or the jetpack. Since they nerfed combo pyro there's literally no other way to be more useful than say, a demoman.
I don't like having to use it, but it'd better than not playing pyro.
Seconded. I flat-out refuse to use the scorch shot in any capacity.
honestly, simply removing the bouncing double-hit mechanic and keeping the radius when hitting a wall or ground would be nice, even if it would stay op to farm your phlog, this is the only problem to me, you should not be able to one-shot anyone with a single flare shot.
that would just be a worse detonator. also hitting the same person twice with the same shot is never in the users control; only happens if the enemy stays still the whole time.
Ehhhh, you have to get super lucky to one shot a light class with a flare. Compared to a soldier, whose primary weapon gives him the best mobility in the game, and if you take the direct hit onetaps light classes instantly with no chance of not dying just because you got hit, while having a better fire rate, the scorch shot is annoying for spam, but not much else
A enemy Scorch Shot Pyro can be really useful if you are running Manmelter
You gain free crits thanks to them
crits*
Become a vacuum if a enemy pyro uses it that’s it just do that
I think we should buff the scorch shot, it seems fairly underpowered.
Can you please explain why this is your thought process
@@scader_shot Because I am being completely and utterly facetious
Best around oh ok
Give it a +20% damage bonus
Thats a horrible idea, it clearly needs a larger blast radius, 256 hammer units seems balanced.
i remember when it was released and people thought it was very weak, i loved using it from day 1
same, it quickly became one of my favorite weapons
People then: *This idiot's using the Scorch Shot? Let's kill him for fun lol*
People now: *This guy's using the Scorch Shot? OH SHIT!!!! RUN!!!!*
That's the problem with the scorch shot, it invalidates the flare gun, leaving only the detonator as the alternative because of higher flare jumps. It's one of those weapons I use all the time because it's the easiest, but have no love for.
But FLARE PUNCH!
the manmelter is pretty much a direct counter to it since you can extinguish someone without using ammo and you get free crits
It would be better if it could eat the flare itself
@@starscream8989 pyro's mask just splits open from the sides to consume to projectile
@@cinnmondotpng Oh god, why would you put that idea in my head?
Honestly the Scorch Shot is the defensive Pyro's weapon of choice. Destroys stickies, reveals spies, is one of the only weapons in the game that can deal with snipers, and can help stop a push from happening.
Which makes it op........
The problem is that pyros shouldn’t be dealing with snipers, you should be dealing with your job of dealing with spies. Snipers should be dealing with snipers. Each class has a role for a reason. It’s a team based game.
@@ryanbolson23 ummm ok but it’s still op. also sniper does counter sniper but, if the sniper is better than you there is not much you can do.
@@Wondereggguy, so the good sniper should go fuck himself then? He shouldn’t play the game because he developed the skills after hundreds of hours of playing? Do you understand how asinine that thought process is? A good player in any class is debilitating. A good spy could cripple an entire team by haunting the engineer and back stabbing essential team members, a good engineer can hold a choke point with a well built nest, a good medic can keep his entire team from dying by managing healing and the Uber economy of a game. Good players do their jobs well. If good players are being put against bad players, that’s not a gameplay balance issue, that’s a matchmaking issue. A good player will, and should, always stomp a bad player in an FPS. Because they are better at the game. That’s literally a no brainer.
@@Wondereggguy also “there’s not much you can do”? Uh spy is a thing. If your team comp can’t have a good sniper or good spy, the counters to a class, then yes you’re going to have a bad time. That’s like saying I can only play paper in Rock Paper Scissors and keep losing to scissors. Yes. If your team doesn’t use the well established counter classes, you will get destroyed by that class. That’s how the game works. If you keep running pyros into an engie nest like it’s D-day, you’re never going to get anywhere.
12:38 False. I've used the scorch shot for 1.3k hours and I had no idea The Scorch Shot was this disgustingly broken.
The first time I ever heard someone complain about it was when I first found your channel.
The reason? I'm not one who has ever spent that much time looking at weapons' stats with a super keen eye. I started using the scorch shot because I tried the other flare guns and didn't particularly enjoy using the regular or the detonator.
I consciously made the decision to use the option that's "less but more reliable damage" because I am more comfortable utilizing splash damage than gravitating toward maximizing damage output. It's the same reason I use the Liberty Launcher. I assure you, for many of us it was a playstyle decision rather than a blatant troll decision.
I spent years of my life actively avoiding EVER TOUCHING the phlog because I wanted to avoid being the absolute asshole you seem to be calling me NOW. I have since started using other flare guns because I care about this same stigma.
I appreciate everything you do to break down TF2 weapons and this video is no different. In fact, I appreciate this one potentially even more than any other because it opens my eyes to why this weapon is balanced so unfairly. I just wish that you took a step back in terms of how aggressive you were about it because I don't think most of the people that use it are the horrible monsters you make them out to be.
Ditto, Fish kinda has a stick up his arse. People aren’t villains for using a weapon in a game. Keep the ad hominems out of statistical gameplay analysis.
*"Shield of Go Fuck Yourself"*
-- Everyone in x100 mode
Once I was a lonely young sniper loitering at the other end of the map. After 100 unchecked potshots ( 5 headshots :-) )this flaming ball suddenly hit me in the face. My body started shaking, I was burning from head to toe! The impudence! How dare this no-face monster spoil my fun. I was furious. And my anger has only grown stronger with time. I will raise an army of the outraged to get you erased. Begone FLAMEBOY.
Lmao
I feel like it's worth clarifying exactly what it is that "Overpowered" means in this context, because it *doesn't* mean what it seems to at face value. It doesn't mean that the weapon (here the Scorch Shot) is inarguably the "best" weapon available to the player, and it *definitely* doesn't mean the most "meta" weapons available to the player. The Scorch Shot, I understand, really isn't meta: Really good Pyros playing with and against really good players are much more likely to reach for one of the shotgun secondaries, or maybe the Detonator if they really need to flank as a Pyro, iirc.
What it *does* mean is that you get a huge payoff for relatively very little effort or skill put into your play. Scorch Shot spam is the sort of thing I could probably teach my grandmother to do, knowing she's old and feeble has never touched a video game before in her life, and yet still within an hour she could be putting an appreciable dent in the enemy team if I point her toward the right chokes. That's what it means to be truly OP: you don't have to be meaningfully skilled at the game to be winning it, if you really really do have an OP loadout. Every Pyro secondary but the Scorch Shot demands a considerable amount of practice, talent, and gamesense to really get good DM out of them, but Scorch Shot only demands clicking vaguely in the direction of the enemy to be effective, and consequently it's easily the most OP of the secondaries in the sense outlined above.
Pls nerf.
It's not the only no-skill OP thing in the game. Why wouldn't we talk about medic's ubers and lvl 3 babysitted sentries?
@@alexxx4434 even if these things were op aswell, scorch shot is still op and also ugly.
phlog-wielding scorch-abusive prick can literally shoot a choke from a mile - for no risk at all and full phlog every 10-20 seconds
ubers and sentries aren't even remotely op tho (except vaccinator's uber specifically but that's a different story), they power's completely dependant on teamwork - without it they're basically worthless
@@alexxx4434 Uber takes time to build. It’s not constantly available, which the scorch shot certainly is.
@@transnewt That it takes time to build, doesn't change the fact that it's still objectively OP.
On the topic of scorch, in my own personal opinion and gameplay experience I just have not found scorch OP neither on receiving nor on applying end.
@@alexxx4434
With Uber you have:
To build it
To know when to use it
To survive with it
To know with who to use it
And a lot of extra small things
With sentries you have:
To choose a playstyle that works for The match (each with it's own counters)
Deal with your counters (explosive spam, backstabs, saps, uber)
If you're brainless with either you can maybe do something but never accomplish anything
With The scorch shot:
Shot in The general enemy direction
You maybe doesn't do much, but you rarely won't accomplish anything with this
I absolutely agree with the statistics and your point that the Scorch Shot is broken. There are no ACTUAL drawbacks to using it, and it ends up being a mini rocket launcher. However, I think the delivery of this video hinders your argument. Being clearly irritated and calling scorch shot users offensive names makes your argument seem like it comes from a place of finding a certain aspect of the game annoying, and less like a collected list of things that make the weapon broken. I completely agree with your argument, but I think you would get less people saying “ur just salty lmao” with a different presentation.
I use this shit exclusively to annoy snipers and get them to play a not-extremely-overpowered and unfair class, works like a charm
Did you name it sniper-b-gone
@@jknifgijdfui I will now
You know the hate is serious when the video is full of creepypasta music.
I can't believe SH music is more well known for creepypastas than for the games themselves
@@Psiicrow If memory serves, not all of the tracks are from SH. I'd have to double check though.
@@thedelly535 yeah bro, BFG Division is my favourite creepypasta music
Clip used : spongebob SquarePants, bruh
This is before the premiere
Cool.
ok.
It’s a shame it’s evil. It has such a nice look to it
Yeah. I think it look muach better than the flare gun
single most rewarding for hitting an enemy one time
S n i p e r r i f l e
ok but can your sniper rifle set 4 people on fire
@@priestoffern1608 But Machina can just pierce through 4 people. And if we exclude hitscan weapons then most impactful projectiles will be Huntsman arrows and Crusader's crossbow syringe.
@@pupkins000 However, if you line up in a line and see a machina sniper, your basically asking for it; you don't even have to hit someone with the scorch shit; just spam the ground in the middle of a group
@@TheDarkCatYT Isn't it what rocket launchers, grenade launchers, sticky launchers and Detonator more effectively do? No one complains about them. Scorch shot is easier to use, more spammable and novice friendly and potentially can do more damage than Detonator if you caught multiple people in its AoE and bounce, but it doesn't make it superior to other, specialised pyro secondaries and especially to other AoE weapons.
@@pupkins000 that's the issue; the scorch shit is super fast, easy to spam, and requires zero skill. Ontop of doing damage it does maximum afterburn. Also with like a grenade launcher, it rolls if your shot misses. The scorch shit can hit even if you don't hit someone. The fact that it's so spammable with zero skill is the issue in the first place
if the scorch shot does get reworked i hope it keeps the stun/knockback, since i use that to combo with the dragon's fury a ton and it lets me pull off some sick juggles. i like the idea of making it a combo tool/pseudo airblast and less mindless to spam
Losing the AOE and the second explosion would make it a good item for inflicting stuns without being massively annoying as it currently is, and makes it take a distinct niche from the flare gun and detonator, of which it is the best of both
the stun is super bullshit and easily the most unfun part about it. at least airblast sends you somewhere, but this piece of shit stops you in your tracks as you're running away and the bastard spamming it has the time to stun you a second time and completely fuck you over
this is not okay
@@arlwiss5110 How about being knocked into the air by a pipe/rocket then airshot because air control in this game is shite? Is that fun?
@@somerandomgamer8504 I keep trying to reply to this but it won't let me so this time in short.
yes I prefer soldiers doing that, it allows for attempts at surfs. It's simple knockback
yes the scorch shot still sucks way more. It's straight up immobilisation, like if you had a weapon entirely designed around paralysing people *cough* Sandman, Natascha
@@arlwiss5110 stop using STUN as a replacement of KNOCK BACK. they're totally different things.
Am I having a stroke or did he destroy the short circuit ball with the scorch shot at 15:13
Yes
The reason it does 8 more damage to buildings is because it adds both shots as one. 30 x 0.65 is rounded out to 19 in TF2 (on buildings), which adds up to 38.
My favorite moment I ever had was on 2fort. I was new and used the scorch shot to just harass snipers on the enemy team(which there was like 4-5). Then some of my teammates joined me and after 10 minutes of harassment, there were no snipers left. Some heavy’s, soldiers and an engineer with the wrangler. It’s was glorious
UA-camr: Saying his opinion on the scorch shot
Premiere chat: Ew sniper main everything he says is false 😭😭😭
Not wrong
It really isn't incorrect though. Sniper has a counter for his two main counters: spies and enemy snipers. I wouldn't take a sniper main's word on another of his counters being "broken."
@@captaincanti It IS broken though. Using the scorch shot on an enemy sniper is effectively removing sniper’s main class function for literally no downsides due to the way flinch works. It’s comparable to the way the old pomson was where it completely shut down spies and medics.
Basically, there shouldn’t be a weapon that essentially tells the other player to pick another class or uninstall the video game, it’s complete bullshit. As much as I hate the Danger Shield it’s literally the only way to deal with this annoying piece of shit.
@@sheacorduroy5565 Snipers can make an entire enemy team have to play around them due to being able to one shot literally anyone at any given moment. Why shouldn't there be classes and weapon that snipers have to play around? You shouldn't have to go demo or scout constantly just to stop some asshole with good aim from wiping your team.
Requirements for fighting Pyro as Scout:
Maneuvering around the pyro, staying out of flamethrower range, hitting shots while juking potential flare shots
Requirements for fighting Scout as Pyro:
Hit 2 Scorch Shot splashes.
not really; if you land 2 scorch shot splashes one after the other, you die and the scout goes to find a health pack. Much better to use the flamethrower, or a shotgun if you are confident in your aim.
Scouts are not supposed to run at pyro anyway; pistol shooting is safer, and if they feel lucky they can try and meatshot them after landing some initial hits. It’s the same concept as scouts vs sentries, pyros vs heavies, and everyone vs snipers on an open map.
How to misinterpret scout actually being stronger than pyro in 1 second
Requirements for fighting Pyro as Scout:
Bait an airblast/scorch shot so you can double-meatshot them into oblivion
Requirements for fighting Scout as Pyro:
Maneuver around corners and get the drop so they can't double-meatshot you into oblivion
This is ofc assuming the scout has > 200 hrs, as per the scout's creed of jackasses
Short circuit: "broken"
Scotch shot: "broken"
Vaccinator: "BrOkEn"
BRUH
Fun Fact : Valve suck at balancing things !
I don’t get it
Anything that can even remotely counter what I enjoy: "broken"
Not everything is broken .
They are broken, it’s the fact that it negates a lot of attacks with little to no skill required.
6:25 After several years of listening to creepypasta narrations on youtube, this is the first time I've ever heard this song used outside of such a video
Weirdly enough I never really minded the Scorch Shot. I don't use it myself, but I've never been actively bothered by it like everyone else seems to have. Odd.
You don't actually see that many Scorch Shot pyros often. Probably because most other secondaries are more fun to use
I don't get it either.
The existence of the scorch shot actually soft-buffs the manmelter if you just sit around and spam its vacuum effect. This is the one and only thing I love about the scorch shot: manmelters can farm crits for days - and then immediately miss all of them because for whatever stupid reason, the manmelter emits a huge particle effect in your face when you fire a crit flare.
13:48 funny enough most if not all classes have something that can counter fire damage.
Also the scorch shot is one of the few counters to instant kill from a mile away pyro can have.
@@theobserver5372 Wait, you mean that the Pyro is at a disadvantage at long range, and is only good at slightly longer range than Scout while also being slower, therefore needing some weapons that can hit at a longer distance reliably?
@@isaiahmiller9142 yes, even though pyro is at a disadvantage at a range. Having something that can finish someone off if they get away from you is useful to have. Not only that the scorch shot is one of the very few counters for snipers. So you can keep the sniper population down and still play the game without getting insta killed from a mile away from something you couldn’t counteract.
@@theobserver5372 dude just use the flare gun. its more respectable and not evil.
@@threegordons9951 listen normally I use the shotgun and flamethrower combo. But this shitty argument of the scorch shot being op has been done to death. Go to UA-cam and search tf2 scorch shot and you will see hundreds of video repeating the same thing. Scorch shot op pls nerf valve. And it’s the same thing on fucking repeat. Nonstop scorch shot op and it gets annoying to see.
Fun fact: the scorch shot taunt kill can be aimed up and down like heavy's judgement, the animation doesn't change though so you'll basically aim foward and a flare will spawn from thin air and fly to the atmosphere, or down and hurt you.
No, is not useful at all, unlike the judgement, the projectile is still a normal projectile beyond close range, is really just so you can look weird or something.
Flare Gun: Harder to hit but does more damage when it does
Detonator: More forgiving, and can it multiple people, but does less damage.
Manmelter: Kinda... underwhelming... its 1 main upside relies on the enemy team.
Scorch shot: Can hit multiple times in 1 shot, you can turn your brain off and still do good with it.
@DamnMerasmus yes
One thing: the detonator can also destroy stickies. I discovered it while playing on dustbowl
Yeah well uh I'm not good with the detonator and I am terrible at timing stuff
@@jakman8515 I mean you could just use it as a tool more than a weapon, kinda like Tide Turner Demoknights and Sticky Jumper Demos, Detonator can be really insane sometimes
It may be evil, but the knockback is god-tier in zombie escape.
Don't all weapons deal knockback?
@@ttpbroadcastingcompany.4460 They only slow you down