Phosphatidylcholine and TMAO
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
- Question: If I'm at risk of heart disease and phosphatidylcholine increases my TMAO, should I stop the supplement?
Short Answer: On a scale of one to ten, my concern about TMAO and cardiovascular disease is a three. There are thousands of things that should be given equal weight as potential contributors to heart disease, but TMAO gets the most attention because the Cleveland Clinic has an incredible PR machine to spread their research, which serves to bolster their financial interest in marketing the test. That said, it is not a universal necessity to supplement with phosphatidylcholine. If you are concerned about your TMAO, you can try substituting trimethylglycine (TMG), and ultimately judge the value of each supplement by whether it is helping you in a demonstrable way.
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*Vitamin K2 and Undercarboxylated Osteocalcin
*What to Do About Twitching
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This snippet is from the December 14, 2022 AMA. The full recording and transcript is reserved for Masterpass members. Here is a preview of what’s included:
*Inositol, What Is It Good For?
*If undercarboxylated osteocalcin (ucOCN) has health benefits and vitamin K2 decreases it, what does that mean for vitamin K2 supplementation?
*Maragen Calcium
*Could slow methylation cause high selenium levels?
*My current thoughts on cholesterol and heart disease
*If I already have oxidative stress, what ducks should I have in a row before supplementing with iron?
*Is it safe to take eight milligrams of zinc daily without copper?
*What to do about developing sensitivities to an increasingly broad range of foods?
*What else to do about hemochromatosis besides phlebotomy?
*If gestational diabetes is just a biotin deficiency, why are women who are insulin resistant prior to pregnancy at higher risk for it, including women with PCOS?
*What to do about chronically elevated amylase and lipase?
*What to do about a non-drinker having very high GGT and occasionally high ALT?
*What are the most common vitamin and mineral deficiencies?
*What are the best supplements, vitamins, and minerals for OCD and depression?
*What is the connection between low pyruvate and high ketones?
*Is high LDL a concern if the carotid IMT and coronary calcium scan are clear?
*An algorithm to fix twitching
*Do I trust food allergy tests?
Here’s a link to the full AMA: chrismasterjoh...
It's amazing what PR will do, take the whole vegan movement
I take around 20g of sunflower lecithin to fix my liver(can't eat cholesterol from yolks due to high oxidative stress from free copper..) and 500mg of TMG as well. Chris do some video on silica. What form is best to take etc.. Nobody is talking about silica, but it is so important for human body..
That's 2 servings worth. You don't get any side effects? Non of that scary sounding "sludge syndrome" from too much choline ingestion? ... Don't you feel "backed up" or physically full from so much?
@@SkedgySky I am less hungry since I started taking it, but I don't feel any negative effect so far. I take like 5-8g three times a day with meals..
What is the rational behind eliminating diety cholesterol?
@@petrichor100 I have high free copper. Free copper can and will oxidize everything that comes into contact with it in the blood. So I am trying to lower intake of everything that can get oxidized and damage my cardiovascular system even more so not just cholesterol, but also PUFA etc.. People think that cholesterol is good for everyone or some people think it's bad for everyone. But it is not so simple. If you don't have any issues like I have for example cholesterol is good for you. But if you have for example low thyroid function you can't use cholesterol properly and it will just build up in the blood. It is about the context...
@@jirihutecka9020 makes sense. How do u know u have excess free copper? Is it genetic, e.g, WD? What are your Ceruplasmin and copper?
Excellent.
Agreed
I have had 2 mini stroke like episodes while taking TMAO. They didn’t come back after stopping choline. I eat a few eggs almost every day and don’t experience these episodes. Was taking for brain fog and memory and it was working for that.
To make things even more strange I took meldronium to increase energy as I get Neuro problems and heart palpitations from caffeine and I got crazy heart beat irregularities, and had to stop after a week or so cause I thought I might have a heart attack. Meldronium is a carnitine blocker. Carnitine is also involved in TMOA production somehow. Meldronium should have decreased TMAO levels if carnitine is involved it TMAO. These experiences are opposite of what’s published?
TMAO was high in those with endothelial injury, perhaps it should have been dysfunction actually?
Thinking there is some interplay with homeocysteine, insulin issues, and uric acid but not sure how it’s all tied together.
How would supplemental TMG dosage compare to supplementary PC? Can I take TMG as a dietary choline substitute?
Like, 1G of TMG = how much endogenous PC?
Okay, I watched your video on that. For others, 500mg TMG equals (approx.) 300mg choline. Disclaimer, as I understood, you should only depend on it for the half requirement.
I have detailed equivalencies in the Cliff Notes: chris-masterjohn-phd.myshopify.com/products/the-vitamins-and-minerals-101-cliff-notes
@@chrismasterjohn Okay, now I see.
Dietary Choline Supplements, but Not Eggs, Raise Fasting TMAO Levels in Participants with Normal Renal Function: A Randomized Clinical Trial
This study might be of interest
Does betaine hcl have the same effect as tmg?
Plus the acidity.
@@chrismasterjohn Thank you. I thought it didn't based off my searches and responses I found.
You are implying that only studies were done on (abnormal) mice, which is just not true. What do say about the studies on humans associating TMAO with health risks?
You haven't mentioned citicoline, which is a go-to in Alzheimer's disease patients. It differentiates into the body differently, as I know, so that can be used for its purpose.
How about cytidine?
Alpha GPC has good data behind it for AD
@@chrismasterjohn
Its one mode of action out of many is considered to involve the release of free choline, which is then utilized for acetylcholine and phosphatidylcholine biosynthesis in the brain. It is very powerful and shouldn't be recommended as a dietary source of choline. It can cause dependence and withdrawals and can be counterproductive in high doses.
Citicoline is different and has numerous advantages for the brain over Alpha-GPC.
Surprised there was no mention of Garlic as a means to lower TMAO production :) JK glad that wasn't the focus!
Yup. I eat a ton of garlic for this purpose.
Extra Virgin Olive Oil & Balsamic Vinegar will lower TMAO
@@ChuckleberrySoupYes, I take Virgin olive oil and apple cider vinegar daily
@giorgikuprava1055 does the garlic help?
Writing this comment for the 4th time as it keeps on disappearing: Hey Chris, would the twelve million patient study that was done in Korea change your mind in regards to the association of TMAO with heart disease? They used Alpha-GPC in the study.
If you want to ask me about a study, at least link to it.
@@chrismasterjohn I tried zillion times.. It doesn't allow me to post it. EVERY SINGLE time it's getting deleted. The title of the study from Jama is: "Association of L-α Glycerylphosphorylcholine With Subsequent Stroke Risk After 10 Years".
@@David-tq5qm UA-cam removes links so provide the database name and study name perhaps
I'd love to know what Chris thiks of this study too. Here's the results of that study:
Matched Cohort Results:
Total Stroke: 43% higher risk (aHR, 1.43; 95% CI, 1.41-1.46).
Ischemic Stroke: 34% higher risk (aHR, 1.34; 95% CI, 1.31-1.37).
Hemorrhagic Stroke: 37% higher risk (aHR, 1.37; 95% CI, 1.29-1.46).
Dose-Response Relationship: An increasing intake of α-GPC was linked to a higher risk of total stroke, indicating a dose-response effect.
Seems like a massive increased risk
@@chrismasterjohn PMCID: PMC8613599
Matched Cohort Results:
Total Stroke: 43% higher risk (aHR, 1.43; 95% CI, 1.41-1.46).
Ischemic Stroke: 34% higher risk (aHR, 1.34; 95% CI, 1.31-1.37).
Hemorrhagic Stroke: 37% higher risk (aHR, 1.37; 95% CI, 1.29-1.46).
Dose-Response Relationship: An increasing intake of α-GPC was linked to a higher risk of total stroke, indicating a dose-response effect.
Sunflower lecithin shows a whole serving is around 11 grams. Will people with poor PEMT genes be overwhelmed by taking in such large amounts of the various phospholipids found in lecithin? They say it's recommended for people with this enzyme mutation, but wouldn't it cause some kind of metabolic backlog to burden a slow enzyme with so much of this supplement?
The backlog is in making it, not utilizing it. But I think fixing anything quickly could lead to some transient adaptation symptoms.
Excellent
I've been getting CAC scans every two years. Statins increased the plaque in my arteries (when the cholesterol was 117). So I stopped and just took K2, D3, and magnesium. The plaque decreased somewhat in two years. But my cholesterol was 249. I wanted to lower it so my doctor would not recommend statins. I took 1 tablespoon of lecithin for two years. It lowered my cholesterol to 203. Great. However, it increased my arterial plaque score from 164 to 292. So I have stopped lecithin (unless I get a gallbladder attack because it can end that quicker than anything else available). I'm now looking for something that will lower my cholesterol but not increase the plaque.
nattokinase
Ignore the total cholesterol and get a cholesterol particle size test. Cholesterol isn't bad but the smaller ones can be.
Depends on how much Hungatella you have in your gut biome. If no Hungatella, then TMAO should go away.