This was the first time I went over a week without posting in over a year! All because there was so much damn research! I hope you enjoyed Mic the TMAO.
Mic, Not only are you very informative,but you a hoot! I LOL'd when I saw those mini cell images of you. Keep fighting the good fight! Cheers, Rik Spector
People dont talk about it because its not supported by the evidence. TMAO is like oxylates in the carnivore community. It sounds like it does bad stuff, but it doesn't show up in the epidemiological data (that being fish and unprocessed red meat associations with cvd) Its like having a murder suspect who is never in the same country as the bodies.
The epidemiological studies I'm aware of show a dose-response relationship between meat consumption of any kind and cvd risk, ie, the more meat you eat, the higher the risk. I'm not aware of any study that shows that vegans have a higher risk of cvd than moderate meat eaters.
Mic, thanks for helping us sort through the research. It's really helpful for those of us who just don't have the time and/or knowledge to do it. Keep up the good work!
After six months on a vegan diet, I've lost 45 pounds. I forgot to use deodorant a couple times and noticed I didn't get any pit odor. I stopped using deodorant and I've not had any pit odor this winter. It will be interesting to see if that stays the same this summer. I wonder if people will be able to sue all theses keto and paleo book authors in ten years when they find out they have heart disease from following their advice.
Once on FB, someone posted, "vegans stink". Then I posted a study on how those who eat more plants smell better (according to women). Then someone who liked the "vegans stink" comment, said, [paraphrasing] "Who would make a study on smelling someone's odour?". I said, [paraphrasing] "Science hurts doesn't it -- especially when the truth turns out to be the opposite of your claims."
Diego Zamora try meat eaters lifting weights next to you in the gym. Had this experience this morning and it’s sooo bad. And they also always talk about that they eat 3x meat to make gains. It’s so sad. I eat beans.
@@esjebesje8638 You mean the chicken leg guys in the free weight area who endlessly yell about how much chicken breast they slam in a day, while turning themselves into giant man-chickens by doing nothing but chest workouts.
The carnist spin doctors will make it so that TMAO is necessary for human health and that vegans are deficient in it. Then we'll have $20 books on Amazon with titles such as, "The TMAO Con".
They are already all over YT trying to counter with the EXTREMELY RARE condition of "Choline deficiency"... Claiming "vegan diets will cause it", "eggs will save you" lmfao ZERO correlation involved. Just more Paleo propaganda 🙄
FKBUSH1 Ironic how only eating animals or their byproducts is supposed to save us. I always just say I trust the largest organization of dieticians and nutritionists on earth and not them- angry, ignorant strangers on the internet. Haha
Mic. You have to stop wasting your time on research! Everything you need to know is just sitting inside the heads of Joe Rogan and his totally genuine guests that are definitely not planted there to confuse people.
Wow! It's finally nice to have an answer to my change in body odor after becoming vegan. I noticed I had little to no body odor after not showering for a day or two compared to when I ate meat, but I thought it was just some weird phenomenon I'd never have an explanation for! (Also, maybe unrelated, but I also have a very high risk for heart disease in my family... hmm... so much food for thought)
Thank you!!! This video came at a perfect time. My mom has heart disease and needs a little more push toward a fully plant based diet. This might just do the trick!!
Sweet_vegan Momma I hope so. My dad had hearth surgery 10 years ago and her now still insists that his quality of life will decrease if he cannot eat everything anymore. And he is very high educated. It always amazes me how such intelligent people can be so unintelligent. He doesn’t want to believe that his aches and pains are coming from eating animal products. So sad
Thanks for all the science journal links. Nice to have someone do all the work and bring them together, AND then present it in an interesting and concise way. Well done.
Pretty unrelated but I really enjoy watching your videos for what they teach but the little silly bits that youve started adding make it also very fun to watch.
@@kalood7. well yes.... 'earthling ed' doesnt even use his real name, he wont even submit 'surge' as a charity so he doesnt have to disclose the tens of thousands of pounds in money you people send to him. and this TMAO video is extremely one sided btw
I'm French, I don't get eeeverything you say in this video because I'm bad at science, let alone in English, but the amount of research.. Damn dude. And the humour! I'll definitely watch this again to be sure I don't misunderstand anything.
Thankyou, so, so much, for explaining the meat eater smell. So many friends have been badly triggered. Accidentally - when I first switched to vegan I was convinced I smelt bad because this stink was just everywhere and I kept asking people if I smelt bad to them. Then my partner went vegan and I realised I never smelt anything like it at home, until some carnist friend came to visit and I openly connected the smell and their presence. Oops. I've wondered what the reason for the sour, stale smell was due to. Thanks for the vegan around friends videos too. They're good for people who think before they speak.....
@Jill WhitcombI couldn't be with someone that ate animals now. I've a couple of friends who always say hi and bye with hugs and kisses and it makes me cringe to have that physical contact. Or maybe its gagging at the smell. At least I know I'm not going mad! Xx
@Jill Whitcomb Absolutely! Everything about it disgusts me, now. From the look of it in grocery stores, & the way they have to scatter it all over the place, instead of confining it to one department I can avoid. To the stench of it being cooked; to the sight of someone else eating it, & all the smells involved, both before & after it's consumed. And the oddest part is, carnists think we actually miss it! They think we find it painfully tempting somehow, when it's quite the opposite. Right before Easter, a grocery cashier informed me that my register receipt had just offered me a free Turkey or a Ham, which I turned down flat. I probably also waved my hand like she'd just forcefully farted. She had the most stunned look on her face when I calmly informed her I don't eat meat. Like I'd just told her I'm from Mars, & 'we don't do earth things.'
I'm so triggered! Wall of text ~~ Wall of text ~~ Wall of text ~~ Wall of text ~~ Wall of text ~~ Wall of text ~~ Wall of text ~~ Wall of text ~~ Wall of text ~~ Wall of text ~~ Wall of text ~~ Wall of text ~~ Wall of text ~~ Wall of text ~~ Wall of text ~~ Wall of text ~~ Wall of text ~~ Wall of text ~~ Wall of text ~~ Wall of text ~~ NWO Wall of text ~~ Wall of text ~~ Wall of text ~~ Wall of text ~~
Yes a 150 dollar e-book of nutrition and medical studies would be fab. I could use them in nutrition school once I apply and have a leg up in first year.
Yes - that is the right stuff - go to an extremely good source - the King of the Vegans - Mic the Vegan - and get him to put the package together of the foundational source material.
If fish has a lot of TMAO, then why do the Japanese, the Okinawans, the Sardinians and other cultures that eat a lot of fish, have such low heart disease rates and such long lifespans? Can Mic explain that?
Bart Kay - UA-camr, juice-factory-worker, ex-scientist (Published ex-scientist, thank you very much, Charlie Brown!), will not be getting out of bed today.
I think Bart Kay should have a field day with this. One of the studies at the core of Mic's hypothesis says literally the opposite of what Mic says it does.
Love your videos!! Thank you for the in depth information. I have a video suggestion if you're still taking them. Can you do a vid on comparing hemp seeds vs flaxseeds vs walnuts maybe? Im transitioning to plant base...aiming for vegan the more I educate myself about products, and I'm trying to bounce back from a heart issue, high blood pressure, skin issues and chronic body pain. Trying to understand which is more beneficial for clearing plaque and reducing inflammation etc. I also started adding sea moss and beet juice powder to my shakes but havent noticed much of a difference externally but overall my blood pressure has gotten more stable and I have less palpitations and tachycardia episodes. Want to do all I can and bombard my body with good stuff! Is it possible to eat too many omega 3s though or it doesn't matter as long as the omega 6 ratiois low?
For healthy and balanced vegan diet you should include both flaxseeds which are anti inflammatory and great to balance cholesterol, hemp seeds which are great source of amino acids to build protein and also they are great source of fibre. Walnuts=good fats but only few a day. also spirulina, chia seed =omega 3, coconut oil=anti inflamatory, anti virus and anti fungal, beans and sprouts, hibiscus tea is great for reducing high blood pressure and yoga to reduce all this stress ha ha and you good to go!!
@@Sunny-kl9jq Thank you!! So I should probably rotate them daily then just to make sure I get a good balance of each? Like...I eat ground flaxseed daily...1 tbsp in my smoothie or in a bottle of water to stop hunger pangs..no more than 2tbso. So in addition to that, would it be ok to do like 2 to 3 tbsp of hemp seeds once or twice a day or add a serving size of walnuts? Or is that probably too much fat and I should stick to one of each rotating them each day? Something like that? Or it's appropriate to include them all in single serving sizes? I just don't want to cause more harm than good but I imagine plant fat is 1000x better than oil or meat any day but I get mixed signals from my doctor about being plant based. Its all confusing because for heart patients or the doctor will tell you not to eat too much avocado because of the fat content but in the hospital or on diet sheets will feed you or tell you that oily and fatty lunch meats or chicken with skins & turkey sausage and things are ok lol. It's like they try to confuse you 😣
About the topic of body odor the physician comittee made an episode of their podcast (The Exam Room) about that, it's called "Keto diet: Stinky Side Effects!"
Paulo Pablito love the Physicians Committee, but I just cannot listen to that guy any more. (You know, "the Weight Loss Champion." So damn irritating.)
Choline and carnitine are my enemies, and I live with them. Trying to find a love hate balance. As a sufferer of TMAU I have had Hugh blood pressure, circulation and heart issues. Didn't get better until I cut out most of the meat from my diet. I feel healthier but still have many issues.
@@mikeskylark1594 Is the central tenant of the argument... "red meat contains tmao which increases heart disease risk"? If so , why show a meta-analysis that shows no association between unprocessed red meat consumption and cvd?
Hey Mic, you are simply the best! About three months ago, my doctor called me to tell me that my cholesterol was very high! She was going to give me two months to do what I could do before my blood was checked again and put me on a statin. Before I got off the phone, I knew what I was going to do. My girlfriend has been a vegan for years. This was interesting because I have a minor in nutrition. I realize now that only about half of that education was good education. I went cold turkey and have zero interest in going back. My cholesterol was rechecked and the changes were amazing! I LOVE your videos. I love that all of your information is backed up by research. Also, you are just so damn funny! Keep it up!
Problem is, we don't even have association in this case. Read the conclusion of the meta-analysis at 4:42 that Mic flashes up to justify the link between Red Meat and CHD. If your theory relies on: Red meat ==> TMAO ==> CHD, then its real problem if your meta-analysis says *Red meat =/= CHD*
Fishy odour? This reminds me of an article I read warning women about "Keto Crotch", an unpleasant odour emanating from the vag*na that affects women with an animal-heavy diet. So it's not just a slogan on a t-shirt, apparently vegans actually taste better... 👍
@@lloydchristmas4547 maybe in studies where many things may not be taken into account. But as far as health and practicality goes not really. Examples would be most of the Vegan doctors especially my man Gregor. He looks so emaciated and weak. Like many other vegans.
Thank you so much for this video. I watched the entire joe rogan podcast with Chris Kresser and Joel Khan and was quite confused about TMAO and how it was relevant. This is a very good video. Now I understand more of why eggs are not suggested on a plant based diet.
While I do think that TMAO is a pretty esoteric thing to focus on, I'm a huge fan of those non-overlapping error bars 📊🔥🔥 Thanks for doing all this research and sharing it in such an accessible way! Really embodying the ethos of public health.
As a vegan activist I obviously get to speak about animal testing, and my arguments about that are always the same : results are not as accurate as we think when testing on others species and that we get way better precision and result with computers for example. So what about studies like the one you used in that video that are helping to show that veganism is not harmful to our body but that also use mice. What do you feel about it? Don't you think that using non vegan research/studies to prove vegans point could be used against us? And so, should we use them? Do such studies exist without the animal testing? If it is, is there something that would make you less keen to us them? Sorry for all the questions 😅, thanks a lot for your amazing work, I use it a LOT to outreach correctly, it's really helpful! (sorry for my poor English I'm French ^^)
@Alexandre Gareau that is not what I'm saying, what I'm saying is if we tell non-vegan that animal testing is not as accurate, is not as efficient as we think ( which is true), that testing on other animals body to understand or prove a point on human's body is nonsense, then using studies that test on animals to prove a vegan point is kind of a paradoxical, isn't it? ( doesn't mean I think we shouldn't use them I'm just wondering and I would like to know what mic think about it) Also, yes a lot of discoveries come from animal testing but doesn't make every form of animal testing efficient, we know now that regarding the difference between mice and us for example sometimes they were very lucky to make any breakthrough at all in human medecine.
funny you mention vegan poop transplants, because just 3 days ago a (non vegan) client of mine asked me (a long time Vegan) if I would give her some for weight loss ...and she was serious 2! LOL LOL .....anyway awesome video Mic!
Thanks! I didn't know about the harmful effects of TMAO. I had been supplementing with L Carnitine because i was under the impression it was needed for mitochondrial health. I've been a whole food plant based vegan for 8 years.
I liked "What I've Learned" until he started advocating for keto. His latest video makes me think he was showing that guy who eats 25 eggs a day for 20 years as proof that eggs are fine for everyone. He barely mentioned how an entire population of people had their health IMPROVE when famine hit and they didn't have access to much meat. "BUT THIS ONE GUY ATE LOOOOTS OF EGGS!" But if I did that, I would be dead in a month. Give me 1,000+ people to do that for a long time. I bet almost 100% couldn't do it. There are people who can live on alcohol and burgers and live to 100. But there are people who can't tolerate that kind of lifestyle and die at 50.
Hey Mic! I'd love to hear you address the choline reference intakes and achieving them on a plant-based diet. Andrew Perlot has a video "Can You Get Enough Choline On A Vegan Or Raw Food Diet?" that talks a bit about this. He points to the study that found zero choline in the diet caused fatty liver, but argues the requirement should probably be lower.
I'm so glad to someone finally made this video!! I always thought that an abundance of oxylates in the zilizalates would dampen the onset of detoxicification of the IGF-2 ignition glutamine in the spezizamite pharmocology process by squaring out the platlet formation in the abdominal 12 finger tract before going anabolic in the liver enzyme formation. Boy was I wrong. Thanks Mic! I wanna hug your beard so bad
Mike, the most inconvenient fact about TMAO research into dietary links is that (quote): "The present plasma levels of TMA and/or TMAO in Japanese patients were one or two orders of magnitude higher than the reported concentrations in Caucasians." In other words, Japanese have 10 to 100 times more TMAO in their plasma, yet, we also know that Japanese have the LOWEST rates of chronic diseases among developed nations. Here is the source: doi: 10.1038/nm.3145. Epub 2013 Apr 7, and another one: doi: 10.1056/NEJMoa1109400.
First, I'd like to say that in the documents you mentioned, there is no occurence of "japan" or "japanese". Google revealed your quote comes from doi 10.1093/ckj/sfu045, which contains that assertion based on a study of only 10 "healthy controls" and 14 haemodialysis patients. It isn't really a surprise those patients had high levels of TMAO in their blood (haemodialysis patients have all sorts of shit in their blood, that's why they need treatment). The study also claims the healthy volumteers had similarly high levels of TMAO, however, I don't think it's wise to base your opinion on a study of only 10 individuals, given that other japanese studies found much lower levels even in diseased population (eg. 10.1007/s10157-015-1207-y). All in all, I don't think you can, given the general dearth of japanese data, conclude that the Japanese have a much higher TMAO levels than Europeans in much better epidemiological studies.
@@jpal00 : Just search for "Japanese" and "TMAO" on PubMed archives and you'll find a very uniform message: there is no link between TMAO blood levels and cardiovascular disease in Japanese population. Here is another example: "Methods: Participants (N=182, men: 86 and women: 96) were recruited from rural areas of Japan. Averaged age was 73.4 years (45 to 89 years). IMT was measured at bilateral carotid arteries, and max-IMT and plaque score were calculated. Results: Plasma TMAO level was widely distributed between 0.4 and 119 mM with the median of 4.4 mM. Age or sex did not give significant influence on the TMAO level. The TMAO level did not show a significant correlation either with log max-IMT (r=-0.07, p=0.4) or with plaque score (r=-0.03, p=0.7). Conclusions: Our cross-sectional study suggested that plasma TMAO did not have a direct effect on carotid IMT in Japanese. DOI: doi.org/10.1016/j.atherosclerosis.2018.06.041 (this is just one of 156 links I got) But why is this surprising to you? TMAO is highest in fish and we know that fish-eating populations are THE LEAST affected by cardiovascular diseases. The fish-eating Adventists (pescaterians) have the LOWEST all-cause mortality among Adventists (including vegans). doi: 10.1001/jamainternmed.2013.6473
Andrei Nikiforov vegan men had lower all cause and heart disease deaths than their pescatarians counterparts according to the Seventh Day Adventist study Table 4. It’s the vegan women that skew the combined numbers. You’re leaving out important details when making your arguments as jpsl00 points out. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4191896/#!po=0.781250
@@kathivy , you are right! When breaking by gender, vegan men had slightly better all cause mortality (0.72 vs. 0.73) than fish eaters. However, vegan women had the WORSE mortality outcomes of all vegetarian groups. In fact, it seems that for vegan women mortality was no different than that of non-vegetarians (statistically speaking).
Andrei Nikiforov ... and fewer vegan men died from ischemic heart disease 0.45 to 0.77 and cardiovascular disease 0.58 to 0.66 than their pesco counterparts, which are the diseases that would interest us most concerning TMAO. So, we can’t conclude as you originally said that “...we know that fishing-eating populations are THE LEAST affected by cardiovascular diseases.” In fact, the vegan Adventist men have the best cardiovascular health. Meanwhile the vegan Adventist women are dropping like flies. Seems that we have something else going on here that’s may or may not be fishy.
@sv3rige's last surviving Brain cell Meat was causing cardiovascular disease long before chemicals were added to any. Mummies of Inuit who died relatively young show signs of atherosclerosis. It's very hard to get cholesterol low enough to cause brain problems, usually through a rare genetic disorder or overuse of statin drugs or starvation. Blood test standards for low cholesterol is that which falls below 40 for hdl and 50 for ldl.
Plus if you really wanted to raise your cholesterol for some strange reason, you could just eat more coconut oil. It will raise your cholesterol at least just as good as animal foods if not better. Anything over 90 or 100 is definitely not too low. Mine was 164 eating High carb less than 10% fat
How do you know his theory is backed by quality studies? For instance, the central thesis in this video is that Red meat is high in TMAO, and tmao is linked heart disease. Problem is, this video establishes that red meat is not associated with heart disease ?
@@scrapbus9681 It's not his theory, it's the findings of peer-reviewed research which he quotes in the video. You can read them yourself and check at the bottom of each publication whether there are conflicts of interest and whether they're reviewed.
Maybe it's because I'm tired or maybe I'm not as swift as I thought I was, but I'm four minutes in and my eyes just crossed. Must have coffee. Then, I'll try this video again. Excellent work with the research, though.
east or west, VEGAN IS THE BEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have also found that bed sheets, general odor is very strong and pungent in meat eaters and also some egg eaters (egg does have part of the hen's intestine attached to the egg) have a horrible smell on them. Also why egg smells horrible when it gets burnt, it has that intestinal part attached to the yolk.
@@welcomeback2mychannel :) hahaha. Your wishful thinking David. I just slept over at my cousin's and they used to eat eggs, this was way back in 2015. They are all vegan now. I work at a place that I don't like much, its a darn financial consulting. Am thinking maybe I should join a Vegan Company, that way I would contribute full time to this.
@Daniel Welch When you break an egg and take a closer look at the yolk, you will find a small inseparable portion of the yolk, which is a portion of the chord that the mother hen gives away to each egg. The small chord which is more like the embrycal chord, its called chalaza. Funny they should call it that; It's almost like, if I wanted to fry someone's finger and eat it, I would called it fingerolli.
OMG I am currently trying to lower my fiber intake, this is my third year of being vegan but my acne is still so bad !! I think my digestion is effed up so I am trying to fix it
This was the first time I went over a week without posting in over a year! All because there was so much damn research! I hope you enjoyed Mic the TMAO.
Longest list of studies that I've seen in a vid.
It was worth the wait!
Tour de force, man.
*Quantum nutrients*
Your updated research on the topic is appreciated, though. This is worth watching more than once.
Mic,
Not only are you very informative,but you a hoot!
I LOL'd when I saw those mini cell images of you.
Keep fighting the good fight!
Cheers,
Rik Spector
Rik Spector is badass name
Clap for the name rik spectre
You're getting super comfy making these videos, really funny and nice flow
My first video was like, “hi....... bye” 😏
You’re a better educator than most doctors out there.
Thank you for covering this! I read about this in Dr. Michael Greger's How Not to Die and I feel like people don't talk about it enough.
People dont talk about it because its not supported by the evidence.
TMAO is like oxylates in the carnivore community. It sounds like it does bad stuff, but it doesn't show up in the epidemiological data (that being fish and unprocessed red meat associations with cvd)
Its like having a murder suspect who is never in the same country as the bodies.
The epidemiological studies I'm aware of show a dose-response relationship between meat consumption of any kind and cvd risk, ie, the more meat you eat, the higher the risk. I'm not aware of any study that shows that vegans have a higher risk of cvd than moderate meat eaters.
Mic, thanks for helping us sort through the research. It's really helpful for those of us who just don't have the time and/or knowledge to do it. Keep up the good work!
After six months on a vegan diet, I've lost 45 pounds. I forgot to use deodorant a couple times and noticed I didn't get any pit odor. I stopped using deodorant and I've not had any pit odor this winter. It will be interesting to see if that stays the same this summer.
I wonder if people will be able to sue all theses keto and paleo book authors in ten years when they find out they have heart disease from following their advice.
wayne busse and if you want to start using deo, buy Schmidt’s. It so good (and natural)
My mom uses lemon 🍋 after each shower and swears by it. Says it’s better than any antiperspirant she’s ever tried
Tbf, Paleo does not in any way have to be animal product heavy (neither does keto, but sadly that very commonly is)
That's great you found you don't need it!!
Fishy body odor is a sign of superb artery gains
@LIFTING THE VEIL 🐟 💦
Once on FB, someone posted, "vegans stink". Then I posted a study on how those who eat more plants smell better (according to women). Then someone who liked the "vegans stink" comment, said, [paraphrasing] "Who would make a study on smelling someone's odour?".
I said, [paraphrasing] "Science hurts doesn't it -- especially when the truth turns out to be the opposite of your claims."
@@lloydchristmas4547 HI! Your comments are always right on! You are 100000000000000% right as usual!
Uh Lloyd, garlic and onions and kimchi are plants. Ever smelled someone who eats a lot of those?
@@banishedfromthedwarfplanet530 so they are but they do not smell like rotting flesh.
Splendid Alfonsinoooooo!!
If I had a formula 1 team I’d hire that dude
I knew I wasn’t crazy. Meat eaters (some) have the most offensive smells ever.
Plus, dairy/cheese/eggs create the worst reeks of all.
Diego Zamora try meat eaters lifting weights next to you in the gym. Had this experience this morning and it’s sooo bad. And they also always talk about that they eat 3x meat to make gains. It’s so sad. I eat beans.
@@esjebesje8638 hahaha
@@esjebesje8638 You mean the chicken leg guys in the free weight area who endlessly yell about how much chicken breast they slam in a day, while turning themselves into giant man-chickens by doing nothing but chest workouts.
Well done that was really great work. I've been researching TMAO all day and that was a fantastic review of the literature. Thank you
The carnist spin doctors will make it so that TMAO is necessary for human health and that vegans are deficient in it. Then we'll have $20 books on Amazon with titles such as, "The TMAO Con".
Lloyd Christmas TMAO supplements w/ a boost of carnitine and choline
The cycle repeats... it's pretty predictable. 🙁
They are already all over YT trying to counter with the EXTREMELY RARE condition of "Choline deficiency"... Claiming "vegan diets will cause it", "eggs will save you" lmfao ZERO correlation involved.
Just more Paleo propaganda 🙄
FKBUSH1 Ironic how only eating animals or their byproducts is supposed to save us. I always just say I trust the largest organization of dieticians and nutritionists on earth and not them- angry, ignorant strangers on the internet. Haha
Lloyd Christmas most accurate prediction.
Mic. You have to stop wasting your time on research! Everything you need to know is just sitting inside the heads of Joe Rogan and his totally genuine guests that are definitely not planted there to confuse people.
Wow! It's finally nice to have an answer to my change in body odor after becoming vegan. I noticed I had little to no body odor after not showering for a day or two compared to when I ate meat, but I thought it was just some weird phenomenon I'd never have an explanation for! (Also, maybe unrelated, but I also have a very high risk for heart disease in my family... hmm... so much food for thought)
Thank you!!! This video came at a perfect time. My mom has heart disease and needs a little more push toward a fully plant based diet. This might just do the trick!!
Sweet_vegan Momma I hope so. My dad had hearth surgery 10 years ago and her now still insists that his quality of life will decrease if he cannot eat everything anymore. And he is very high educated. It always amazes me how such intelligent people can be so unintelligent. He doesn’t want to believe that his aches and pains are coming from eating animal products. So sad
Thanks for all the science journal links. Nice to have someone do all the work and bring them together, AND then present it in an interesting and concise way. Well done.
Great job MIkey
ps----aesthetically, the videos look great
Another awesome video. Keep up the great work. I really appreciate the information and the added humor make it fun. Big thumbs up!
Thanks, Mic for interpreting all this research and keeping a high level of scientific standards for the rest of us.
What give you the confidence that Mic has interpreted or represented the studies correctly
I’m a simple woman. I hear Darude’s Sandstorm, I like.
I laughed way to hard when I made the connection with the music and the desert.
I'd love to see you on Joe Rogan's podcast
Thanks for the video and your efforts! No BS, no B-Roll, just pure science❤️🙏🌱
But wheres the mechanism Charlie BROWN!! Oh ... wait, he explains it in detail with sources.
TMAO? - LMAO, no thanks.
hehe clever comment!!
Shame that one of the main studies he uses doesnt support the hypothesis. #poorfactchecking
@@scrapbus9681 Which one and where in the study?
lol, Bart Kay is an idiot
my dude splendid alfonsino
That was absolutely awesome Mic! Thank you for putting this together!
Next: How to grow a beard like Mic the Vegan.
It only works if you have tiny eyebrows
Pretty unrelated but I really enjoy watching your videos for what they teach but the little silly bits that youve started adding make it also very fun to watch.
Mic the veg & Earthling ed are vegan gods 🌱 🌌.
True! The new bosses of the vegan community!
When Durianrider & Gary Yourofsky gets replaced in a noble way!
Miha Skorjanc yeep.
@@kalood7. hahahahaha they are both frauds
@@conorrclark8274 nope :).
@@kalood7. well yes.... 'earthling ed' doesnt even use his real name, he wont even submit 'surge' as a charity so he doesnt have to disclose the tens of thousands of pounds in money you people send to him. and this TMAO video is extremely one sided btw
I love how entertaining you make these videos!!
This is a terrific video! What a lot of work! Love the little asides and the humor! Really brings this all to life.
I'm French, I don't get eeeverything you say in this video because I'm bad at science, let alone in English, but the amount of research.. Damn dude. And the humour! I'll definitely watch this again to be sure I don't misunderstand anything.
Pretty sure all the thumbs downs are coming in from Mickey, Minnie, Speedy, Mighty, Jerry and all their friends.
ah yes so keen for this !!!
Thankyou, so, so much, for explaining the meat eater smell.
So many friends have been badly triggered. Accidentally - when I first switched to vegan I was convinced I smelt bad because this stink was just everywhere and I kept asking people if I smelt bad to them. Then my partner went vegan and I realised I never smelt anything like it at home, until some carnist friend came to visit and I openly connected the smell and their presence. Oops.
I've wondered what the reason for the sour, stale smell was due to.
Thanks for the vegan around friends videos too. They're good for people who think before they speak.....
@Jill WhitcombI couldn't be with someone that ate animals now. I've a couple of friends who always say hi and bye with hugs and kisses and it makes me cringe to have that physical contact. Or maybe its gagging at the smell. At least I know I'm not going mad! Xx
@Jill Whitcomb
Absolutely! Everything about it disgusts me, now. From the look of it in grocery stores, & the way they have to scatter it all over the place, instead of confining it to one department I can avoid. To the stench of it being cooked; to the sight of someone else eating it, & all the smells involved, both before & after it's consumed. And the oddest part is, carnists think we actually miss it! They think we find it painfully tempting somehow, when it's quite the opposite. Right before Easter, a grocery cashier informed me that my register receipt had just offered me a free Turkey or a Ham, which I turned down flat. I probably also waved my hand like she'd just forcefully farted. She had the most stunned look on her face when I calmly informed her I don't eat meat. Like I'd just told her I'm from Mars, & 'we don't do earth things.'
*Create a Better World by......GOING and staying VEGAN*
I'm so triggered!
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Yes Sir!!
Loved this, super informative. Thanks!
Cleavage and Sandstorm?! How am I supposed to focus on your awesome research when I'm laughing so hard?!
5:52 gotta love plants indeed! Downregulating stuff when useful. We do the same with iron right :)
Please make a binder of studies showing vegan is the way to go! I’ll pay whatever you want lol
Yes a 150 dollar e-book of nutrition and medical studies would be fab. I could use them in nutrition school once I apply and have a leg up in first year.
Yes - that is the right stuff - go to an extremely good source - the King of the Vegans - Mic the Vegan - and get him to put the package together of the foundational source material.
We should kickstartee thisss
Mic the vegan for JRE podcast! hit like if you want him there!
This guys the man!
Just recently went vegan and I’m posting a vid tomorrow, would love some subs and feedback guys! Thanks
Suscribed
Your thoroughness amazes me. And you're getting better each video!
If fish has a lot of TMAO, then why do the Japanese, the Okinawans, the Sardinians and other cultures that eat a lot of fish, have such low heart disease rates and such long lifespans? Can Mic explain that?
Thank you so much for all of your videos! I have been vegan for over 2 years now and you have been inspiring and keeping me healthy the whole time!
Excellent information video mic!
Bart Kay - UA-camr, juice-factory-worker, ex-scientist (Published ex-scientist, thank you very much, Charlie Brown!), will not be getting out of bed today.
I think Bart Kay should have a field day with this. One of the studies at the core of Mic's hypothesis says literally the opposite of what Mic says it does.
Love your videos!! Thank you for the in depth information. I have a video suggestion if you're still taking them. Can you do a vid on comparing hemp seeds vs flaxseeds vs walnuts maybe? Im transitioning to plant base...aiming for vegan the more I educate myself about products, and I'm trying to bounce back from a heart issue, high blood pressure, skin issues and chronic body pain. Trying to understand which is more beneficial for clearing plaque and reducing inflammation etc. I also started adding sea moss and beet juice powder to my shakes but havent noticed much of a difference externally but overall my blood pressure has gotten more stable and I have less palpitations and tachycardia episodes. Want to do all I can and bombard my body with good stuff! Is it possible to eat too many omega 3s though or it doesn't matter as long as the omega 6 ratiois low?
For healthy and balanced vegan diet you should include both flaxseeds which are anti inflammatory and great to balance cholesterol, hemp seeds which are great source of amino acids to build protein and also they are great source of fibre. Walnuts=good fats but only few a day. also spirulina, chia seed =omega 3, coconut oil=anti inflamatory, anti virus and anti fungal, beans and sprouts, hibiscus tea is great for reducing high blood pressure and yoga to reduce all this stress ha ha and you good to go!!
@@Sunny-kl9jq Thank you!! So I should probably rotate them daily then just to make sure I get a good balance of each? Like...I eat ground flaxseed daily...1 tbsp in my smoothie or in a bottle of water to stop hunger pangs..no more than 2tbso. So in addition to that, would it be ok to do like 2 to 3 tbsp of hemp seeds once or twice a day or add a serving size of walnuts? Or is that probably too much fat and I should stick to one of each rotating them each day? Something like that? Or it's appropriate to include them all in single serving sizes? I just don't want to cause more harm than good but I imagine plant fat is 1000x better than oil or meat any day but I get mixed signals from my doctor about being plant based.
Its all confusing because for heart patients or the doctor will tell you not to eat too much avocado because of the fat content but in the hospital or on diet sheets will feed you or tell you that oily and fatty lunch meats or chicken with skins & turkey sausage and things are ok lol. It's like they try to confuse you 😣
About the topic of body odor the physician comittee made an episode of their podcast (The Exam Room) about that, it's called "Keto diet: Stinky Side Effects!"
Paulo Pablito love the Physicians Committee, but I just cannot listen to that guy any more. (You know, "the Weight Loss Champion." So damn irritating.)
@@Codswallop58 hahaha xd
Excellently done Mic!
Choline and carnitine are my enemies, and I live with them. Trying to find a love hate balance.
As a sufferer of TMAU I have had Hugh blood pressure, circulation and heart issues. Didn't get better until I cut out most of the meat from my diet. I feel healthier but still have many issues.
@@RiDankulous Thank you very much.
Choline supplementation greatly alleviated my brain fog. A vegans gut microbiota would not be a conducive place for TMAO production
Great overview, as always!
Great, but inaccurate.
@@scrapbus9681 Por que?
@@mikeskylark1594 Is the central tenant of the argument... "red meat contains tmao which increases heart disease risk"?
If so , why show a meta-analysis that shows no association between unprocessed red meat consumption and cvd?
Love the sandstorm reference! Lol love your videos!!!!
Hey Mic, you are simply the best! About three months ago, my doctor called me to tell me that my cholesterol was very high! She was going to give me two months to do what I could do before my blood was checked again and put me on a statin. Before I got off the phone, I knew what I was going to do. My girlfriend has been a vegan for years. This was interesting because I have a minor in nutrition. I realize now that only about half of that education was good education. I went cold turkey and have zero interest in going back. My cholesterol was rechecked and the changes were amazing! I LOVE your videos. I love that all of your information is backed up by research. Also, you are just so damn funny! Keep it up!
2:25 triggered carnist: *foaming saliva* association doesn’t equal causation!!
Problem is, we don't even have association in this case. Read the conclusion of the meta-analysis at 4:42 that Mic flashes up to justify the link between Red Meat and CHD.
If your theory relies on: Red meat ==> TMAO ==> CHD, then its real problem if your meta-analysis says *Red meat =/= CHD*
@@scrapbus9681 man, imagine being this pathetic
@@V_Deity not sure what your point is here, but yes... In this instance, Mics research/presentation was pathetic
Fishy odour? This reminds me of an article I read warning women about "Keto Crotch", an unpleasant odour emanating from the vag*na that affects women with an animal-heavy diet. So it's not just a slogan on a t-shirt, apparently vegans actually taste better... 👍
Had a girlfriend tell me over 20 years ago if I ate ice cream, she could taste it.
are you latin or asian cos you look just great
Science tends to favour veganism.
@@lloydchristmas4547 maybe in studies where many things may not be taken into account. But as far as health and practicality goes not really. Examples would be most of the Vegan doctors especially my man Gregor. He looks so emaciated and weak. Like many other vegans.
Thick Boy your name ain’t misleading, you’re pretty thick.
Great video as always !!!
Doctors, researchers and scientists with degrees and years of peer-reviewed research vs. Chris Cresser who’s . . . some guy. Guess who my money’s on ?
agree
Problem is the evidence agrees with Cresser and so does the peer-reviewed science. Just not Mic's spin on it.
Great research and info as always 🌱🙏🏻💚
Thank you so much for this video. I watched the entire joe rogan podcast with Chris Kresser and Joel Khan and was quite confused about TMAO and how it was relevant. This is a very good video. Now I understand more of why eggs are not suggested on a plant based diet.
Well, you convinced me!
Fascinating stuff...
I like how you did the Dr. Greger trick: "It'd be awesome if we had a study on TMAO and the Paleo Diet. Oh wait, we do!" 14:00 Lol!
Mic certainly does a Dr Greger trick. He flashes up a study that does not say what he says it does. Greger does this all the time as well.
I love it thank you for your hard work to keep us enlightened..much luv and respect!
Thank you.
Keep giving the truth
Mic, we need to talk about your Spice addiction. Are you Mua’dib?
NoCommentChick go Mic, ride the worm!
He is the Chosen One, he is the Kumquat HaagenDaaz! He knows The Weirdest Way.
jaw dropping stuff here
thank you for existing!
While I do think that TMAO is a pretty esoteric thing to focus on, I'm a huge fan of those non-overlapping error bars 📊🔥🔥
Thanks for doing all this research and sharing it in such an accessible way! Really embodying the ethos of public health.
As a vegan activist I obviously get to speak about animal testing, and my arguments about that are always the same : results are not as accurate as we think when testing on others species and that we get way better precision and result with computers for example.
So what about studies like the one you used in that video that are helping to show that veganism is not harmful to our body but that also use mice.
What do you feel about it? Don't you think that using non vegan research/studies to prove vegans point could be used against us? And so, should we use them?
Do such studies exist without the animal testing? If it is, is there something that would make you less keen to us them?
Sorry for all the questions 😅, thanks a lot for your amazing work, I use it a LOT to outreach correctly, it's really helpful!
(sorry for my poor English I'm French ^^)
@Alexandre Gareau that is not what I'm saying, what I'm saying is if we tell non-vegan that animal testing is not as accurate, is not as efficient as we think ( which is true), that testing on other animals body to understand or prove a point on human's body is nonsense, then using studies that test on animals to prove a vegan point is kind of a paradoxical, isn't it? ( doesn't mean I think we shouldn't use them I'm just wondering and I would like to know what mic think about it)
Also, yes a lot of discoveries come from animal testing but doesn't make every form of animal testing efficient, we know now that regarding the difference between mice and us for example sometimes they were very lucky to make any breakthrough at all in human medecine.
Nutrition Rounds!! I've listened to 3 episodes today! I really like it!
funny you mention vegan poop transplants, because just 3 days ago a (non vegan) client of mine asked me (a long time Vegan) if I would give her some for weight loss ...and she was serious 2! LOL LOL .....anyway awesome video Mic!
I can't believe someone actually asked you, that must be so weird!!
it was!..
Thanks! I didn't know about the harmful effects of TMAO. I had been supplementing with L Carnitine because i was under the impression it was needed for mitochondrial health. I've been a whole food plant based vegan for 8 years.
Can you do a video to the video from "what i've learned", "why nutrition science is so complicated" please?
I liked "What I've Learned" until he started advocating for keto. His latest video makes me think he was showing that guy who eats 25 eggs a day for 20 years as proof that eggs are fine for everyone. He barely mentioned how an entire population of people had their health IMPROVE when famine hit and they didn't have access to much meat. "BUT THIS ONE GUY ATE LOOOOTS OF EGGS!" But if I did that, I would be dead in a month. Give me 1,000+ people to do that for a long time. I bet almost 100% couldn't do it. There are people who can live on alcohol and burgers and live to 100. But there are people who can't tolerate that kind of lifestyle and die at 50.
Hey Mic! I'd love to hear you address the choline reference intakes and achieving them on a plant-based diet.
Andrew Perlot has a video "Can You Get Enough Choline On A Vegan Or Raw Food Diet?" that talks a bit about this. He points to the study that found zero choline in the diet caused fatty liver, but argues the requirement should probably be lower.
I'm so glad to someone finally made this video!! I always thought that an abundance of oxylates in the zilizalates would dampen the onset of detoxicification of the IGF-2 ignition glutamine in the spezizamite pharmocology process by squaring out the platlet formation in the abdominal 12 finger tract before going anabolic in the liver enzyme formation. Boy was I wrong.
Thanks Mic! I wanna hug your beard so bad
If you want to know what your risk of heart disease go get a CT scan to test for calcified plaque in your coronary arteries.
Mike, the most inconvenient fact about TMAO research into dietary links is that (quote): "The present plasma levels of TMA and/or TMAO in Japanese patients were one or two orders of magnitude higher than the reported concentrations in Caucasians." In other words, Japanese have 10 to 100 times more TMAO in their plasma, yet, we also know that Japanese have the LOWEST rates of chronic diseases among developed nations. Here is the source: doi: 10.1038/nm.3145. Epub 2013 Apr 7, and another one: doi: 10.1056/NEJMoa1109400.
First, I'd like to say that in the documents you mentioned, there is no occurence of "japan" or "japanese". Google revealed your quote comes from doi 10.1093/ckj/sfu045, which contains that assertion based on a study of only 10 "healthy controls" and 14 haemodialysis patients. It isn't really a surprise those patients had high levels of TMAO in their blood (haemodialysis patients have all sorts of shit in their blood, that's why they need treatment). The study also claims the healthy volumteers had similarly high levels of TMAO, however, I don't think it's wise to base your opinion on a study of only 10 individuals, given that other japanese studies found much lower levels even in diseased population (eg. 10.1007/s10157-015-1207-y).
All in all, I don't think you can, given the general dearth of japanese data, conclude that the Japanese have a much higher TMAO levels than Europeans in much better epidemiological studies.
@@jpal00 : Just search for "Japanese" and "TMAO" on PubMed archives and you'll find a very uniform message: there is no link between TMAO blood levels and cardiovascular disease in Japanese population. Here is another example: "Methods: Participants (N=182, men: 86 and women: 96) were recruited
from rural areas of Japan. Averaged age was 73.4 years (45 to 89 years). IMT
was measured at bilateral carotid arteries, and max-IMT and plaque score
were calculated.
Results: Plasma TMAO level was widely distributed between 0.4 and 119
mM with the median of 4.4 mM. Age or sex did not give significant influence on the TMAO level. The TMAO level did not show a
significant correlation either with log max-IMT (r=-0.07, p=0.4) or with
plaque score (r=-0.03, p=0.7).
Conclusions: Our cross-sectional study suggested that plasma TMAO did
not have a direct effect on carotid IMT in Japanese. DOI: doi.org/10.1016/j.atherosclerosis.2018.06.041 (this is just one of 156 links I got)
But why is this surprising to you? TMAO is highest in fish and we know that fish-eating populations are THE LEAST affected by cardiovascular diseases. The fish-eating Adventists (pescaterians) have the LOWEST all-cause mortality among Adventists (including vegans). doi: 10.1001/jamainternmed.2013.6473
Andrei Nikiforov vegan men had lower all cause and heart disease deaths than their pescatarians counterparts according to the Seventh Day Adventist study Table 4. It’s the vegan women that skew the combined numbers. You’re leaving out important details when making your arguments as jpsl00 points out. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4191896/#!po=0.781250
@@kathivy , you are right! When breaking by gender, vegan men had slightly better all cause mortality (0.72 vs. 0.73) than fish eaters. However, vegan women had the WORSE mortality outcomes of all vegetarian groups. In fact, it seems that for vegan women mortality was no different than that of non-vegetarians (statistically speaking).
Andrei Nikiforov ... and fewer vegan men died from ischemic heart disease 0.45 to 0.77 and cardiovascular disease 0.58 to 0.66 than their pesco counterparts, which are the diseases that would interest us most concerning TMAO. So, we can’t conclude as you originally said that “...we know that fishing-eating populations are THE LEAST affected by cardiovascular diseases.” In fact, the vegan Adventist men have the best cardiovascular health. Meanwhile the vegan Adventist women are dropping like flies. Seems that we have something else going on here that’s may or may not be fishy.
Good news about the brussel sprouts :-) I eat them quite frequently.
The mushrooms message was a nice touch! lolol
But cholesterol deficiency tho! Once again, nicely presented and backed with quality studies.
@sv3rige's last surviving Brain cell Meat was causing cardiovascular disease long before chemicals were added to any. Mummies of Inuit who died relatively young show signs of atherosclerosis. It's very hard to get cholesterol low enough to cause brain problems, usually through a rare genetic disorder or overuse of statin drugs or starvation. Blood test standards for low cholesterol is that which falls below 40 for hdl and 50 for ldl.
Plus if you really wanted to raise your cholesterol for some strange reason, you could just eat more coconut oil. It will raise your cholesterol at least just as good as animal foods if not better. Anything over 90 or 100 is definitely not too low. Mine was 164 eating High carb less than 10% fat
How do you know his theory is backed by quality studies?
For instance, the central thesis in this video is that Red meat is high in TMAO, and tmao is linked heart disease.
Problem is, this video establishes that red meat is not associated with heart disease
?
@@scrapbus9681 It's not his theory, it's the findings of peer-reviewed research which he quotes in the video. You can read them yourself and check at the bottom of each publication whether there are conflicts of interest and whether they're reviewed.
@@roku3216 the study shows no association between unprocessed red meat consumption and cvd.
Thats a fatal flaw.
I really like your thorough research
Wowzers. Well worth you taking longer to look at the science. Quality videos over quantity, is definitely the way to go. Thank you.
Thanks for this in depth video!
Maybe it's because I'm tired or maybe I'm not as swift as I thought I was, but I'm four minutes in and my eyes just crossed. Must have coffee. Then, I'll try this video again. Excellent work with the research, though.
east or west, VEGAN IS THE BEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have also found that bed sheets, general odor is very strong and pungent in meat eaters and also some egg eaters (egg does have part of the hen's intestine attached to the egg) have a horrible smell on them. Also why egg smells horrible when it gets burnt, it has that intestinal part attached to the yolk.
What do you do to be exposed to so many bedsheets??
@@welcomeback2mychannel probably a maid or housekeeper I reckon
@@welcomeback2mychannel :) hahaha. Your wishful thinking David. I just slept over at my cousin's and they used to eat eggs, this was way back in 2015. They are all vegan now.
I work at a place that I don't like much, its a darn financial consulting. Am thinking maybe I should join a Vegan Company, that way I would contribute full time to this.
@Daniel Welch When you break an egg and take a closer look at the yolk, you will find a small inseparable portion of the yolk, which is a portion of the chord that the mother hen gives away to each egg. The small chord which is more like the embrycal chord, its called chalaza. Funny they should call it that; It's almost like, if I wanted to fry someone's finger and eat it, I would called it fingerolli.
You cracked me up twice today sir
Moderation is the 🔑 key...........
Respect to your wealth of knowledge brother 👍👍👍
Greeat vid!!!
Could you elaborate on heme iron being bad for you? Does this mean I’ll have to give up the ImpossiBurger?
How interesting 🤔 I never knew this about tmao!
I thought I just finished binging Mic... guess not haha. Thank you!
I haven't had body odour in over a year being a vegetarian.
Great stuff, thanks Mic :)
MIC please talk about the hunting argument!!
Just wondering where the Keto diet sits on the list. Thanks for all the great info kept it up
🌱
OMG I am currently trying to lower my fiber intake, this is my third year of being vegan but my acne is still so bad !! I think my digestion is effed up so I am trying to fix it
@Cassius fruits and veggies are crap?
@Cassius OH LOLOL the only junk I eat is when I film, I don't eat like that on a regular basis. I think I am over consuming fibre LOL