Nah Fam Jaune is the real protagonist and Ruby Rose is some side character that everyone pretends is the main character. After all, he's the one with motivation and character Arc (for the sake of argument anyway). I wonder why that is, Miles.
Jaune _does_ have the closest thing to a real character arc in the show; he has to gain skill and confidence and stuff, and that's been central to his character for...well, for as long as I kept up with RWBY at least. The "character arcs" other characters go through are too rushed to really count as arcs. Take Weiss, who goes through two rapid-fire "character arcs" in the second half of Volume 1. A problem is set up, it's made obvious in one conversation, now it's all better and we can move on.
@@adonaimelles2317 That's like saying Yamcha is a main character of Dragon Ball Z because he fights with Goku and was also trained by Master Roshi. WBY and NPR are supporting characters to the main characters Ruby and Jaune.
The earliest criticism that really sold this point to me was the question asked, "WHO are JNPR to the heroes?" And the criticism that the answer literally was "Meh, school friends." JNPR are not rivals: not rivals for grades, for first pick of missions, for getting the best huntsmen mentor. JNPR are not minor antagonists: well-meaning fellow students who disagree with how RWBY handles things, or who deal with completely normal problems and are confused by all the "save the world" stress RWBY is under, or flawed, biased, edgier characters who don't get their sisterhood and power of friendship schtick. JNPR are just... friends. No distinct POV, no source of conflict, but then slowly having more screentime because the actual main characters are only allowed one plot thread each. Out of the entire show, THE most interesting parts of RWBY/JNPR have been Monsters and Heroes and Best Day Ever. Nothing else compares.
Jaune would actually be more interesting if he was more like THE REAL LIFE PERSON he's named after. Jeanne of Arc is a fascinating figure to study, unlike Jaune.
The Rwby writing suffers because of the production's toxic pyramid scheme system. The rwby production team started small, but the founders have stayed at the top as more employees are brought in. At the top of the pyramid currently are the writers. The writers have a lot of experience on writing and take input from everyone on the crwby team to make the show as good as possible. However, their writing suffers consistently. On a normal animated show, a writer who is not doing his job to the quality asked of them must answer to a producer. The producer sits down with the writer to discuss how to solve the problem. Put plainly, the producers says "Do your job to the level of quality we ask, or you will be replaced." However, The rwby production team has the main writers at the very top. They are not forced to answer to anyone that can threaten their job. So, the quality of writing in rwby is a direct result of a poor production dynamic that benefits the writers, but not the writing. I have spoken with some of the crew that worked on rwby, and it seems they have accepted the writing is bad, but are not allowed to address it.
That is sad to hear, but a good note to keep on the effects a power dynamic can have on one's ability to please an audience. George Lucas naturally fell into a similar direction when creating the STAR-WARS prequels, not having his vision be questioned. Heck, it seems a lot of the reason movie sequels have such a bad reputation is writers tend to be given more leniency in future projects. I don't want to believe all writers are inherently destined to take this path, but it is easy to see this as a trend. Perhaps the lesson is simply, never put one's self beyond criticism, and don't let fame limit one's drive.
This would be much less of a problem if it weren't for RWBY being essentially less than half the length of a regular anime, yet still trying to accomplish the same amount of storytelling with their tight schedule. Qrow was always meant as a mentor figure to Ruby but became essentially baggage since Volume 4, making his original role as mentor useless. He never teaches Ruby anything, so there's no reason for him to be there. That's why he jobbed so hard in Volumes 5-6, it's clear they don't know what to do with him at this point so they make the professional veteran Huntsman lose for some reason so the kids can save him. Stumbled across your vids and will be summarily binging them now. Really good insights.
I kind of want Qrow to get killed off to help create drama. Basically the mentor dying, passing on the torch and make us think the group are in actual danger. In the V6 opening he was being dragged down by some Grimm so I assumed he was going to die this volume but he didn't. He started off as a bodyguard/guardian, but now he is jobbing so hard like in the Battle of Haven so he doesn't feel like a professional huntsman anymore. He has some interesting dynamics with Winter and Ironwood, but are they really necessary to expand upon when the group reaches Atlas? Although killing off Qrow while the Vic Mignogna drama is going on may leave a sour taste.
Compare Team RWBY to the Gryffindor trio. Harry solemnly swore he was up to no good and spent a solid 6 years investigating every square in of Hogwarts, Ron had a family tale for every occasion and ended up being the catalyst for them learning the Deathly Hallows, and Hermione could research absolutely anything. .... They were 11-17 year old kids, taking on the fate of the world voluntarily. How well developed are Team RWBY's investigative skills to them: 15-19 year old women who are training to be a part of an international security force against monsters and bandits? Even when Rowling wanted to show Dumbledore or Snape's prowess, 80% of the time, Harry was with them, learning under them. The other 20% was without Harry specifically to build dramatic irony and tension for when Harry did find out. Because NO information is important in a story outside of how the MAIN CHARACTER uses it. Do Miles and Kerry know who RWBY's main character is anymore?!
One thing that I asked myself a few weeks ago was "if RWBY had to end tomorrow in one episode, what story would they tell?" and the conclusion I came up to was Jaune seeking revenge. The main team has nothing going for them anymore, the team has noting going for them, Adam wasn't even that big of a threat after V5 and well, you know... Ozpin and Salem's story can be reduced to what it was when the show started, one makes grimm, the other trains students and the world goes on as normal.
that's why the writing for the girls even at the beginning was sloppy at best. Jaune, ren, Pyrrha and Nora literally got the dance number, the development and everything in between meanwhile rwby got: the racism subplot. Yikes
RWBY: Is a shojo fantasy action school girl anime that verges on Magical Girl and prominently features female protagonists. Also RWBY: pushes its female leads aside so that the male characters can steal all of their spotlight and character development, and the strongest female character in the group is turned into a girlfriend in the fridge for a male character's development.
Monty: Im going to make all the protagonists into girls so it can stand out at the time. Which at the time was forward thinking. The writers: Um... screw that. let's make it into a shonen and introduce this Jaune Arc guy that is going to be voiced by one of the writers and have the coolest girl in school randomly fall in love with him for no reason...
I think this video is improperly labeled. Calling them "impostors" is rather fallacious. Jaune IS a protagonist. Not a fake one. It's obvious he was set up to be significant from the start. Same with Oscar. The only problem here is that RT didn't give the members of Team RWBY more personal driving motivations that tie into all of their actions and a long term goal like they did with Jaune.
True, my title was in part picked because is sounds nice. I think the real problem is the fact that Jaune IS a protagonist. The show already has 4 protags (team RWBY) inserting Jaune and Oscar into that role as well feels unnecessary and only results in stunted screen time for our title team.
@@twiinsiink Thats fair. However the reason I myself see no issue with that is because I've seen stories with more than 4 protagonists yet still handle them all really well. From anime like One Piece to American Comics like X-Men, handling a main cast of 9 or even 10 or more characters is doable. Team RWBY definitely needs more focus but the problem itself isn't with Jaune, Oscar or Qrow. I think a better title for the video would be: "The Constant Neglect of Team RWBY".
@@redx589 If I may provide another perspective; I don't think it's necessarily that Team RWBY is being neglected. I think it's possible that RT is "attempting" to portray them as superior to the other characters by not having them struggle as much with their inherent problems as Jaune and Qrow. Which unfortunately leads to their struggles being constant and something that keeps needing to be addressed whereas with RWBY their flaws are things that are often quickly overcome. They're already strong individuals whereas it's everyone else with a lot of room to grow as characters. Thats my take on it anyway.
@@redx589 how many chapters has one piece? how many comics has the X-Men? A one pice episode has like 24 minutes, while RWBY has 8 - 15 excluding first season episode and last season episode Marvel and Toei animation are fucking big, comparated with them, rooster teeth is nothing The problem is simple, they have a lot of characters but a limited amount of time Also those stories have actual writters, I dont want to get in this mess much time, so I'll be as fast and clear as possible, Monty was a great animator, and I respect his work, so I dont want this to sound like I'm throwing rocks to his tomb, but he wasn't a great writter, M&K do their best, but they still have some problems (specially talking about continuity and consistence) that they need to improve Even oscar's arc has problems, remember when he made the choice to lisent ozpin and leave his home? I'll give you the fast answer, you dont, cause that happend off screen They have that limited amount of time, and even so, they dont manage to organize that time
[spoilers for RvB] Miles was accused of having a self insert character too in the seasons he wrote for RvB. Felix was introduced in season 11 and was immediately presented as a suave mofo mercenary with a gruff exterior but a heart of gold. Most importantly: he had no weaknesses. Rightly, Miles was accused of writing himself a Mary Sue and it was only until season 12 when we realise he was playing our main cast all along, being nice to Washington so he could learn more about their situation and encouraging Tucker as a leader only so Tucker would then lead his troops into unwinable battles. Having Felix be somewhat of a main character makes sense because he is one of the main villains and deserves time to shine. His character went from a Mary Sue character to a deeply flawed psychopath, dependent on his partner and almost leeching off him in a way. Felix is a compelling character because he was clearly a villain, and not in DisneyXD type 'clearly-a-villain-because-they're-laughing-evily'. But he was a roadblock for our main characters, the Reds and Blues, notably for the seasons' main character Tucker and also for his own partner Locus. Felix was great. Compare that to Jaune, and I'm basically just reiterating your point. Jaune was introduced as a bumbling dork and now he's proven himself to be a capable leader and strategist. For any other character this would be great development, just not for Jaune. I'm not saying Jaune shouldn't have gotten any development, I'm saying that the arc (hehe) they wrote for him would've been better used if it was written for Ruby. Jaune had a ton of time devoted to his personal story when it should have been used to push the narrative they wrote for him onto Ruby. All in all: The problem with Jaune is that he still feels like an early Felix. It feels like we're waiting for a big reveal that makes us understand why he warrants this much screentime. But revealing something like that in volume 8 would be so fucking dumb because this far into the show it would be grasping at straws instead of anything Chekrov-y.
I don't know if Miles is explicitly going out of his way to write self-inserts for him to play in the shows he acts in, but I have noticed a few recurring elements with his writing that may explain what's going on. First: Miles seems very limited on his ability to write villains. He defaults to the suave, smooth, "better than you" sort of archetype consistently. (Also seen with Cinder, Mercury, Emerald, Jacques, and Watts). So, it's no wonder that Felix is effectively a carbon copy of Cinder, complete with all the shitty one-liners and "always one step ahead" crap. Second: If a character is going to have a serious change happen to them, like Pyrrha dying or Felix revealing to be evil, Miles goes out of his way to make the character as likable as possible beforehand- which often leads to making them effectively perfect. Everyone loved Pyrrha, she was the strongest of the whole group, pretty, smart, charismatic- by all means Pyrrha feels like the Mary Sue OC.... except she isn't voiced by one of the writers. Felix is. Miles reuses all these techniques for Felix so as to make his "i'm evil" reveal be more emotional, but since he also voiced Felix it just ended up feeling like "I'm gunna make MY character perfect!" Third: Miles seems to put more thought into some characters over others. From reading his tweets/RT blogs/listening to interviews and commentaries, it seems Miles dedicates a good amount of time thinking about the dynamics and emotions of the characters..... that he has a hand in. If he voices a character or is involved with the character's creation process (like how he and Kerry were in charge of developing Ren and Nora's personalities) Miles clearly cares more about "his" characters than the main ones. And that may be why the characters he voices tends to get the more interesting arcs or development, because he's not thinking about the development of the characters he's not emotionally attached to. So, in short I don't really think Miles is writing in self-inserts, but rather that his writing practices tend to just put the characters into that direction. Which still isn't necessarily good (I hated Felix and regularly complain about Jaune's insistence of stealing screen time), but hopefully having the new writers on the team will help with that.
@@twiinsiink couldn't have said it better myself. I'm honestly amazed that guy wrote the Chorus trilogy, some of the best seasons of RvB, and went on to screw up a show like this. Rooster teeth as a whole is slowly ruining it's shows and it's sad. Just make a finale season and put it to rest instead of keeping up the slog. Create new shows with new stories and let us enjoy the good instead of following the bad. I'm not a hater, or even angry. I'm just disappointed the shows and characters I love aren't getting their justice.
There was no reason and there is still no reason for him to be in the series. JNPR in any anime series is supposed to be written as rivals or competitors or the early on soft antagonists of the series and disappeared when the plot focused on the girls. not turn into the main focus
Yeah, I'm just waiting for Rooster Teeth to come out and say, "oh you thought this show is about RWBY, well guess what it isn't! (Wal laughing maniacally)
I just love how the impostor protags are all male characters... can we just admit already Miles and Kerry can't write girls properly without somehow involving shipping? Pyrrha obssesses over Jaune, Nora over Ren, Ilia over Blake, White Rose teasing, MASSIVE Bumblebee teasing, etc. Winter serves Ironwood, Glynda serves Ozpin, geez can't girls just have agency and *character*???
you conveniently left out Cinder, Sienna, Salem, and Raven, who all serve their own interests. In support of your argument, though, there is also Neo who exists solely as an accesory to Torchwick (even after his death).
@@LSDOvideos Wasn't Sienna the whitefang leader that Adam killed? If so there's really no reason bringing her up when she just had like a minute of screen time. The others you meantioned do count tho.
Though you have a point there, I noticed some years ago that the show only got me invested on the female characters. I rooted for no male character as deeply. They did a good job on a few, like Qrow, Jaune and Torchwick, maybe Ren. But many just seemed kind of bland to me. There wasn't anything interesting about them. Vol 4 started to improve on Ren and Sun, Vol 1 already fleshed out Jaune a bit. It has improved a lot by now but I think Oscar suffers from this the most. The key moment of him deciding to leave the farm was not shown and we know almost nothing of him except that he's kinda shy, though he didn't seem shy when Ozpin talked to him in Vol 4. Otherwise he just reacts like everyone would and has no specific traits at all. I always thought that the girls had wayyy more character than the boys. I just rolled eyes every time team SSSN appeared because they were presented as cliché boys, trying to be cool and hook up with girls. Instead the girls: you knew their personality exactly. You could tell: Ruby the naive and nerdy do--good, Weiss the spoiled heiress with no social competence, Blake the introvert who wants to leave her past behind and Yang the partygirl. None of them were treaded like the dumb genderrole-sterotype (except maybe Yang). It's true that the show has a major shipping-problem but I think if you are obsessed with it, every show has it. We know for example that Jaune had a crush on Weiss and Sun on Blake. I personally see WhiteRose only as a platonic relationship but I see your point. The thing is, Nora and Pyrrha have a personality aside from their feelings. Nora is the Hulk and Pyrrha the successful but modest one. And having Ozpin as the headmaster of Beacon was inevitable, so Glynda had to be in a lower position or his colleague (I see them eye to eye). I don't mind Bumblebee as long as it makes sense but I fret a bit over Ilia. I like her and her concept, I think it's ok to have her be a lesbian but what bugs me is that we don't know anything about her personality aside from that. Only that she can be cruel and determined. That's sad I think. Funny enough it fits her chameleon-trait.
@@kevin13cabello You're right, as a character she doesn't mean much to the overall story. But the implications of her character can't be ignored: she's a poweful woman solely in charge of an organisation and was higher up in the chain of command than Adam of all people. In fact he saw her as such an obstacle he had to kill her with a surprise attack. Again she's not super relevant but the fact that she existed in the way she did means at least something. EDIT Also, offing her the way the writers did was an enormous mistake. First of all her character design was great (not unimportant in a visual medium) and having Adam split off in a splinter group at direct odds with her could actually give some depth to the white fang and their methods. If two groups of white fang had arisen (Sienna vs Adam) it would have been a literal representation of the good and bad sides of their philosophy and the way white fang members see themselves in the world- especially if Sienna's side ended up being smaller. To the OP, I forgot to mention: saying that Nora obsesses over Ren is a bit unfair: it might seem that way because her personality is outspoken, but it's clear Ren cares about her just as much. In fact I'd say they're the only two characters (bar sun and blake and already established romantic partners) that actually seem like a healthy couple that works in a way that isn't forced. Also to the OP: You forgot to mention cringelord Illia who only goes over to the good guys because of the power of one sided lesbianism.
Blake is best example- her entire character arc/s are built upon shipping/romance. Adam, Sun, Yang, Ilia... FOUR CHARACTERS with romantic interest in the same person!
A harem requires more than two love interests for a character at once. The harem master doesn't necessarily have to be interested in the harem mates, but the harem mates need to have an interest in the harem master. Blake has (or rather had) Sun, Ilia, and Adam. Plus, Yang might replace Adam in the near future. Meanwhile, Jaune only had Pyrrha. He might get Weiss, Ruby, and/or that random redhead chick he met in volume 6, but he's yet to graduate to the rank of harem master like Blake. Now if you want to watch a REAL harem anime that doesn't sell itself as such, I recommend Star vs the Forces of Evil.
I wonder how many people would be upset if they went to see an Iron Man movie and got an Iron Patriot movie instead. That's basically what I see has happened with RWBY. The premise was situated around the four girls. They were the ones the trailers were about to gauge interest. They were the ones we saw first and came here for. No one said, "On this first episode of Ruby, I hope we see Jaune!" Jaune wasn't advertised. But he got an actual, multi-episodic character arc dedicated to him before ANY of Team RWBY. Did they need a bullying arc? Ok: Ruby is the youngest student at Beacon, Weiss is the known heiress to one of the richest companies, Blake is a hidden faunus, and Yang is seen as an airheaded bimbo. All of then could have been believable victims of bullying. Maybe not in the traditional "push you into a locker" bullying. But constant, emotional bullying is very real and harmful thing. :/ And that's a form of bullying that we don't really see portrayed, even though that's a common way for girls to be bullied. Hell, girls get bullied for having too big boobs or little boobs or for being too muscular or too physically strong. You can still be a secondary character and be a complete badass and memorable (Hello, Garrus and Tali from the Mass Effect series video game series) without derailing the plot or undermining the main characters. Jaune wasnt that. The writers allowed him to co-opt an entire half of a inaugural season for no reason. What did we learn about the school life or about the world? Nothing that couldn't have been seen on--literally--any other show. Yay. I guess I still haven't forgiven the writers for that.
"I guess I still haven't forgiven the writers for that." It doesn't help that it feels like the writer's reaction to the initial dislike of the character is to keep wasting time trying to make him work.
this is why people say rwby can be fixed extremely easily and everyone knows it. but the writers are focused on making Jaune the main and the girls are basically there because they gotta be there. heck, in volume 3 alone the shift from the girls to Jaune was evident. I wonder what changed in the production? Oh, Monty died. I swear, the more i read about this the more i feel that monty's allergic reaction wasn't something that happened by accident.
Ren and Nora should have been just as affected as Jaune was for her depth, they knew phyrah just as well and probably tried to help her get Jaune in the first place plus phyrrah was the first female in Nora's life from what we have seen, for Ren I assume she is like a sister so you would assume everyone gets affected by her death but nope it's just Jonny boy
They were it's just that jaune was hitting harder because he feels responsible for pyrrha's death because he was there in her last moments before she shoved him into a locker. Ren and Nora had each other to confide in. Jaune had no one to confide in.
this show used the: this is a feminist show and yet the girls are just used for screaming at the other girls and the adults and when Jaune speaks they make sure he talks in the perfect moments to not hurt his image.
Welp, V6 is over and they killed Qrow to bring Ruby to the forefront while completely failing to make her improve or say anything that doesn't sound insane. Ozpin was pretty much killed as well, but Oscar keeps being as relevant despise not really being useful for anything. And Jaune...instead of giving us a scene fleshing out the conflict Blake and Yang setup in Brunswick Farn, they decided to focus on Jaune, and the Pyrrha relative surrogate in the scene isn't even given a name. I can hear Miles saying "Yeah, we wanted to keep it in the air, maybe it's her mom, maybe it's her ghost". Which actually means "we didn't think of anything".
@@dubsquad156 Neither, he's just been made irrelevant post V4. In V5, they just made him a punching bag, in V6 he became a drunkard laying on streets depressed and Ruby kept giving speeches about how much better kids are and how they'll find a way to beat Salem. Then in V7, they paired him with a guy who has a similar semblance and when shippers started getting happy, the dude died because Qrow was acting like an idiot. No one even acts like he's supposed to be this huge deal.
@@ProxyDoug Goddamn, well a Quick Death is “merciful” than character assassination in RWBY verse. I’m just glad Roman and pyrrah were dead, judging by the writing recently
Same, I always thought he was the deuteragonist. I always thought he gave a different perceptive of the plot and was a foil to Ruby herself. He's kind of like Zuko in Avatar, not a side character but not exactly the main character either.
I think its more on because team rwby isnt making any relationships (does not need to be romantic for fk sake) with as much people than the other 2 of the supporting cast (not oscar) cause lets face it, without jaune team rwby and jnpr would be distant as hell, without jaune we wouldnt a glimpse on other characters, same goes for ozpin, while rwby mainly stick to their only 1 friend, via ruby and weiss, or yang and blake, maybe sometimes ruby and yang, the only one who succesfully does make a relationship with a different character from team rwby is blake, fkn blake of all people can make more relationships that have an influence on the story than the energetic ruby, social yang, or even the many connections because of my last name Weiss
that's the writing's fault. they are keeping all the characters distant so Jaune is the only one that can jump from one group to another without it looking forced
I always believed Ruby should have been the main character and Jaune should have been the deuteragonist. And I think this is the way the characters were presented since the very beginning, for him to be a foil to Ruby. That the reason he had so much screentime in season 1, they set him as he deuteragonist. I mean, Jaune was introduced in the show _before_ both Weiss and Blake. He was also Ruby's first friend in the show and he was given a character arc in the beginning of the show for a reason. He is also the everyman with a very solid character arc and you can see where his character is going. He's supposed to mirror Ruby in this way so I don't see problem with him having so much screentime. I'd even argue he's a more important character than Weiss, Blake, and Yang. Those characters are meant to support the main character RWBY. Like if I can make a comparison to Avatar, Ruby is Aang, the rest of Team RWBY is Team Avatar, and Jaune is Zuko. Team RWBY are all main characters but Jaune is meant to have a lot of character development aways froth main character to contrast with him. That's just how I always saw it (at least in the first 4 volumes). We should not hate on Jaune because he's getting screentime, he should have screentime as a major character! He has an interesting character, interesting motivation, and an interesting relationship to the main character. It's good that he's such a well fleshed out character, the only problem is that other characters might not have enough screentime. But that's not Jaune's fault, it's the writer's fault for not writing other characters as good as Jaune.
IMO Jaune should’ve died instead of Pyrrha, since not only is Pyrrha a much more interesting and unique protagonist (Someone who’s famous but doesn’t want to be, compared to the farm boy that wants to become a hero), but she also provides a nice contrast to Cinder, Cinder is the one wants more power and to be known by everyone, Pyrrha is the one that already has that and found out that it’s not all it’s cracked up to be. And vengeance for Penny and Jaune’s deaths would be a great motivator for her. For God’s sake, if you going to have a spotlight robber, at least have an INTERESTING and UNIQUE spotlight robber.
What I go by when I watch shows is that there's a group of protagonists (RWBY, JNPR, Qrow and Oscar). Within that group of protagonists there's a smaller set of protagonists (RWBY). And Within that set of protagonists there's a main protagonist (Ruby). I normally just think of that when there's a lot of people in a show. I think they need to even out the time for characters to make clear who the main set or main protagonist is. Here, look at MHA. They give Izuku enough time on screen to make it clear that he is the main protagonist, but they also know when to have him take a step back and let the background characters have their time to shine/assist on moving the plot along all while making it very clear that Deku is still the main character. Now with RWBY, they say, "Ruby is the main character along with Weiss, Blake, and Yang" but look how much time all these other characters got to expand their character while team RWBY is just sitting in the background waiting for someone to tell them what to do next. What CRWBY needs to do is watch videos like these or at least think deeply about what they write in the show to make it more enjoyable and less confusing. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
Honestly, I can’t say if this has gotten better or worse after season 6. While characters like Yang, Blake, and even a little bit of Ruby got some development. Jaune still got an episode about him sad about Pyrrha (which seemed like it was some closure, so hopefully less of that), Qrow seemed to grow more than Weiss and Ruby, and Oscar seemed like he grew the most out of everyone there. And what stinks is that all lot of the time these problem protagonists will sometimes “de-progress” the other characters, even other problem protagonists. At the end of volume 6, they set Jaune up to be the strategist. That’s fine, he’s growing but it’s not like he’s taking the forefront. But Oscar comes in and essentially takes his character growth, becoming the new strategist. Thus regressing Jaune, which is a problem because that means they’ll have to spend even more time developing him. RT seems to have characters grow, and than regrow, which is an issue these problem protagonists have I don’t see many people discus.
Yeah, I always wondered why Jaune, Oscar, and Qrow were being treated more like the main protagonists. Team RWBY always felt like a side story to team JNPR.
Volume 6 really makes a difference in this, as circumstances force us to pay much more attention to RWBY for most of the season. After the initial train sequence, Jaune, Ren, and Nora are absent for a big chunk as the team is separated. We don't get cut backs to see how they're doing, and instead it focuses on RWBY and various villains. When we do get Jaune again, it's for the inevitable "Fuck you Oscar" scene followed by a shift in his motivations. In the big fight at the end, he doesn't get much of any particular focus. Qrow's gone through a very interesting shift, I feel. First a distant mentor figure, he joined the group and starts taking charge of the situation. He's an adult whom the team trusts, so that doesn't feel too out of line. V6 hits him with a Heroic BSOD in the wake of learning that Ospin has no plan, and thus becomes unable to carry the team anymore. His break down facilitates a large chunk of Ruby's growth this season as she gets more and more fed up with his drinking and poor attitude. With Qrow going off to sulk and drink, we get more scenes dedicated to the team. Weiss gets to freak about dead bodies and finds the basement with Ruby, while Yang and Blake explore and continue to fumble through working their issues out. And lastly, there's Oscar. Once the truth is revealed about Ospin and the immortal voice shuts up for a long while, Oscar steps back from the spotlight for a bit. He chimes in every so often, reads a book, but does little of importance for that time. When they reach the town and he gets yelled at, he scares the party by vanishing for a while, prompting them to search for a few hours. He doesn't do anything noteworthy until the very end where Ospin stops sulking a second to help him crash land the airship before slipping out again. In summary, Volume Six went out of its way to force these characters to stop hogging spotlight for a while so RWBY would be able to actually do shit.
Littlepup93 Honestly though Oscar’s character actually needed a little development. The characters have been reacting so mildly to what is essentially a dead kid wondering the living room and it’s getting to be very aggravating
This is why I am more interested in Oscar than I am with any other character. The only reason I watch is to learn how Oscar can grow. But everyone else are like making disappointments.
I don't think they should have delegated 100% atention away from JNPR, but i do agree id have liked more RWBY focus or at least a more even ratio. It also woulda made more sense if Ruby spent half that time with Pyrrha instead of just Jaune, maybe have them talk a bit like Penny did, just so we can remember theyre friends even if they didnt talk on screen much previously, then let Jaune or Ruby and Jaune witness Pyrrha's death.
I feel like the writers should go back and rewatch volume 2, where the girls literally state their goals, then write it so they actually work towards it. Yang is a thrill seeker, wanting to go on adventures. Blake wants to right all the wrong in the world, but in a more peaceful way than the white fang. She even admits she doesn’t know how to do it. Why not have her learn and figure it out along the way? Weiss is upset with how her father runs the company, and she wants to make it better again. Yet ever since Whitley became the heir, we’ve heard literally nothing else about it. How is Weiss gonna claim it back? How will she change the company? She could be working towards that goal. And as for Ruby, I have no idea what she’s doing. She just wants to be a hero and save people, but that’s so vague that it has no where to go.
Don’t forget all Yang’s emotional baggage that led to her searching for Raven for years. Why did she want to find her? What was her goal after she did? What answers was she hoping to get? Apparently none of that mattered because all she wanted come volume 5 when she did find her was use her to get to Ruby.
I actually like to think of Ruby as someone who wants to be a Hero for one reason, only to have that viewpoint change overtime. When Ozpin first approaches her, it's clear that she's extremely naive, with an extremely romanticised view of what being a Huntress is like, thinking it's this really cool job full of adventure and "coolness" Cue the Vytal Festival, Penny's death, and the subsequent fall of Beacon. I have one complaint, *it should've been darker* people should've died (as in, more people than just Pyrrha) and Ruby especially should've seen people dying before her eyes. This would fulfill part 1 of 3, for the arc i have planned for her. And that, is for her to realize that no, being a Huntress isn't all Sunshine and Rainbows, running around killing things with a Sniper-Scythe, and looking cool. It's a job where you stare death in the face constantly, where you and your colleagues are constantly at risk of losing your lives, its a job where you're surrounded by despair and negativity, and all you can do is push through it, and learn to deal with it. This makes her more serious, still with a little bit of the childlike desire from before Beacon fell, but it's significantly less pronounced. She's noticeably less eager, often taking the time to strategize before a fight, in order to have the best chances of winning and "not-dying". Something that could've been explored more in V4, especially with Tyrian, having them attempt to escape him later on in the fight, after realising that he was way out of their League, would've been a nice touch. Now for part 2/3 of her arc, Maria. After the encounter with the Apathy, and the subsequent realization of how to Activate her Silver Eyes, Ruby begins prioritizing saving lives, over killing grimm. Up until this point, a lot of her plans would basically boil down to "kill all the grimm" with bystanders safety being a bit of an afterthought for the most part, since she assumes that by killing attacking Grimm, she's 100% ensuring their safety already. Finding out that her eyes only Activate on a desire to save, rather than kill, her viewpoint shifts into one that prioritizes civilian lives, before focusing on the grimm. City under attack? Get the civilians out of harm's way first, *then* kill the grimm. And now for her final act, part 3/3 of her arc, Atlas. There's still one thing she has to learn, she has to learn how to choose between the Bad, and the Worse, and the Atlas vs. Mantle fiasco is perfect for this. Upon arrival in Mantle, she sees how everything sucks, and wants to help everyone. Cue Ironwood, everything proceeds as normal, up until the gang is called to Ironwood's Office, during the attack on Mantle. And this is where we change something *drastically.* So this will be a bit more detailed than everything else. (See my next reply)
Make. The heroes. Turn on each other. When Ironwood proposes his last resort plan to abandon Mantle and blast Atlas into the atmosphere, our gang *must* be split. Half of them want to go through with the plan, preferably the more calm and logic-based ones, like Ren, and Weiss, and maybe even Blake. The other Half, are opposed to the plan, preferably the more Emotional, and naive ones, like Nora, Yang, Jaune, and *ABSOLUTELY* Ruby. It'll go something like this: Ironwood proposes his plan, and our heroes pick their sides, with Ruby opting to save Mantle. Ironwood and the Ace Ops begin to walk out of the room to enact the plan, only for Ruby to petal burst straight to Ironwood, in an attempt to stop him One of those opting to Abandon Mantle should attack her, in order to keep her from stopping Ironwood. The Abandon Mantle team (which i will abbreviate as "AM") tells Ironwood and the Ace Ops, to proceed with the plan ASAP, leaving them to deal with our "Save Mantle" team (which i will now abbreviate as SM) Our teams come to blows, with the SM team throwing the first punch. They're evenly matched, and the fight lasts long enough for Atlas to start blasting off. The SM team all escape down to Mantle, while the AM team all stay in Atlas. Now our cast is split in two. Our teams get some downtime to contemplate on the side they chose, with one member from each suggesting that maybe they chose wrong. (Preferably the most..."shaky" of each one, i'm thinking Blake or Weiss on "AM" and Yang or Jaune on "SM") only for the most adamant member of each time to reassure them that, yes, they did choose right (for "SM" this can't be Ruby, as she really needs to think about this) Our SM team, along with the Happy Huntresses, work their asses off, keeping anyone left in Mantle safe. While the AM team fight Neo and lose the Lamp Soon, the AM team finds out about the Staff of Creation, and what it can do, probably from Ironwood. They eventually convince him to let them use it to evacuate the rest of Mantle, into Atlas. Ironwood is still a very caring individual, and still cares about Mantle. He only made the decision he made out of necessity, he didn't want to make it, but he had to. So our AM team makes two separate gateways. One connecting to the Mantle citizens, and one connecting to the SM team. Back to our SM team, they and the Happy Huntresses have managed to gather all the remaining Civilians and put them all in one spot, so that they can protect them more easily. The grimm keep pouring in, for every dozen they take out, twice as many seem to come in. They're struggling, and out of breath, causing one of the Grimm to slip by without them knowing, and make a beeline straight for the people, only for one of the gateways to open up in front of it, causing it to land right in front of our AM team, clueing them in to the situation on the other side. Our SM team is too preoccupied to notice the gateway, and are promptly backed up by our AM team, with a flashy barrage of attacks, surprising the SM team. Our AM team fills in the SM team on the plan, and they bring the people through the gates to get them to Atlas, only for them to encounter Cinder and Neo, in the space-highway bridge place. So as usual, or 7 heroes fight them, but they can barely hold their own, as they have too much to pay attention to. Not falling, keeping the civilians safe, staying alive, taking down Neo and Cinder. They need to deal with all of that, on top of the fact that they're teamwork is sloppy, considering they aren't exactly on the best of terms just yet. They fall 1 by 1, with Ruby falling last. Keep in mind, she doesn't know that falling =/= death just yet. This gives her a chance to really reflect on her actions, her stupid decision to save Mantle despite it not being practical is what caused this whole situation in the first place. In her eyes, *she* caused the "deaths" of her entire team because she naively thought that she could get the best ending. Thus completing her arc, and really fleshing her out as a character.
I remember when monty said: we are going to focus on the characters on volume 2. but the writers wrote extremely poor reasons like: we don't care about you Rwby and it kept the door wide open for JNPR to become the part of the main cast because rwby's reasons did not make sense. Why is Weiss in a hunter academy and not in a business school if she wants to take over her family business. Why isn't blake in politics? and why isn't Yang just randomly riding her motorcycle through the world of remnant if that is her reason? but wait, ren's & nora back stories actually track for them becoming hunters? Ren losing his family to a Grimm and nora basically being an orphan and had no choice but to stick with ren for protection and Jaune being from a long line of hunters? WTF brooo. this is sabotaging your main cast on purpose.
Ush... this hurts... but I can't deny your point! Are you a fan of red vs blue? Cause they have a wide cast of 11ish protagonists. I got into rt with rvb so I didnt mind team JNPR sharing the spotlight with team RWBY in the first volumes. Another note: the way I see it, Yang grew from her chat with Raven. I dont see it as "this was meant to develop raven" rather than to develop both! I feel like the fact that Yang was crying was because she realised that her mum would rather put her daughter in danger than herself. Nevertheless, aside from this realisation, the show hasn't yet given a chance to show how Yang's personality/character changed because of this whole mummy issue (and it probably won't until Raven comes back into the screen) so, again, I can't deny your point XDXD!
The thing is it wasn't Raven that was supposed to change her personality. Yang was someone who put others good before herself and Raven was the exact opposite. Yang already put herself in danger before for others (like Blake). Her experiences with Raven who abandoned her daughter for her own safety would just make her vow to be more protective of others even more and V6 stayed true to that
@@maiseree1511 I like your argument. But then, wouldn't you agree that it was Raven who made her vow to be more protective? Also, Yang learnt a lot about her mum in V5. She knew she was problematic but now, experiencing it on first person, at an age where she can understand what's going on, she KNOWS. She most likely gave up trying to make her a good mum. Which brigs me to: Yang completed her own personal goal in V5. In V2 she admited that she was on a long search for her mum and in V5 it's over. Which means she has different goals now. Does that make sense?
@@tatersalad76 True, but part of this was because the original RvB characters were written much simpler to start with, often having singular defining traits. Only later did they flesh them out.
A huge chunk of screen time was wasted on Illia who was basically just female Adam, they could've had Blake travel towards Haven together with Sun so all that extra screen time would've been spent on developing Ruby. Does anyone remember Ruby? You know, the cute sniper-scythe girl? Am I the only one bothered by the fact that she only had one piece of development back in volume 1? Taking to heart Ozpin's advice on leadership, that's literary her only growth until like volume 6. And no, sounding like she's on the verge of tears all throughout volume 5 doesn't count because she shrugged off her feelings and none of her so-called friends cared enough to ask her what's wrong.
the writers knew one thing: they didn't want to spend their days writing shojo. So they basically took Sokka from Avatar and said: this is what avatar would have been if they made Sokka the main character. but Ask yourself: would avatar be as successful if SOKKA was the only person getting character development ?
Jaune is not even really Sokka. Sokka a) is likeable, b) is convincingly written as an intelligent and competent strategist (it's not an informed attribute) and c) gets called out on his bullshit and grows from it (Kyoshi warriors).
Team JNPR is a subcast, it's they're job to help move the story along from behind the scenes while the main cast ( RWBY ) deals with the major events happening in front of them. Sorta like a cast and crew in a play.
Yeah, I'd love some more development on best girl Yang. Possibly without being Blake-centric, but I kinda like how Bumblebee is being handled so far, so its not too big an issue. Just more character arcs in general pls
The show that is somewhat named after one of the girls (Ruby), the one who the first trailer of the series was about, the first of the girls we meet in the main series: Is constantly outshined by other characters in the development and screen time department, and is only really important because of some (extremely poorly explained) plot device (the silver eyes).
its because the writers are keeping the main 4 as the cover models for the series meanwhile Jaune is the only one that gets to actually grow in the series. the writers think we haven't noticed that team rwby literally doesn't have a stake in the story anymore. yang & blake have each other. Blake is free of adam. Weiss is disowned so Withley gets the company so she REALLY needs to be dealing with that and Ruby literally has no reason to be there either. They obviously gave all of the development meant for Ruby to Jaune and just crossed their fingers nobody would notice
@@bryana.escaleralopez Yang and Blake only exist now as ship bait, Blake you could remove entirely and absolutely nothing would be lost. Also the whole situation with Adam: he absolutely no reason to be in Volume 6, the only reason he was was because Blake let him run away from Haven like a dumbass. Aside from Atlas being gone Weiss has been of the belief that being a wandering mercenary will somehow improve her family name instead actually being involved with the company, Whitley is the only member of the family who should be able to run it. Ruby has her plot device eyes which is the only reason she matters as a character.
@@ChangedMyNameFinally69 No, it was a very nice mechanic for telling a good story, I doubt the series would have done as well from Zuko's perspective. But also a protagonist is only as good as the antagonist. Both Zuko and Azula were very well done and even Ozai got some nice development.
I always thought of Jaune as the Zuko of RWBY. He's not the main character and he doesn't run with the main crew, but he does have significant development and offers a different perspective to the narrative. Jaune is to Zuko as Ruby is to Aang.
Good observations. I don't think any of this is particularly a bad thing though. If anything I enjoy what they've built up so far with Jaune it's just that they need to do the same for Team RWBY. All of the main cast should feel like protagonists in their own right.
Hey Arnold It’s good that you liked it but giving Jaune so much screen time was by all accounts a mistake and is the main reason why he’s one of the most unpopular characters in the fandom. Not all side characters are meant to be protagonists, I mean they practically dropped like 80% of the characters in volumes 1-3 anyways, and it shows what the writers want to focus on. There was just a lot of wasted time on jaune that could’ve went to RWBY or even ren and nora who mysteriously got left out in v1-3 and really haven’t been doing much since that one episode in v4.
@@catch3588 Giving Jaune screentime wasn't a mistake. The mistake was not giving the same amount to Team RWBY first. Jaune isn't a side character either. He's a protagonist. Always has been. I don't care if most people hate him since most of the reasoning behind it is just plain stupid.
@@heyarnold7256 Being an writer means knowing what to focus and want to leave for later, Ruby is the MC of RWBY not Jaune and thus all of his scenes should of been given to her, the show has a very limited amount of time so they should use wisely. Jaune arc is also really cliché and boring, yes he does get character development but character development doesn't automatically make an character good. If they really wanted to the could of fleshed out Jaune later on.
@@brandonontama2415 The limited screentime is also a problem that hinders the story. They should really do something about that. However Jaune at the time was the only character going through an internal conflict. Ruby at the time had no such problems so it made sense to settle and set up some of his issues early on.
@@brandonontama2415 Jaune is cliche? And Ruby isn't? Are you trying to argue that Ruby isn't cliche? Wow. Lol. Everything you just said would apply to her as well. Theres no guarantee that giving Ruby focus early on would have made her more interesting. Sure Ruby needs more development but taking away whats been built up with Jaune wouldn't do either character any favors.
This video is great. You make a lot of good points. I would like to add that the title character(s) of a story does not necessarily have to be the main character (s). In the case of RWBY I think they should be the main characters (especially since they were introduced as such). But in the famous novel The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr Hyde Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde are the title characters but they are not the main characters. The main character is Mr. Utterson, Dr. Jekyll's lawyer who investigates the strange happenings going on around the mysterious Mr. Hyde.
Honestly I feel during the end of volume 3, instead of having the girls split up, RT could've made it where team RWBY went on the journey to stop cinder together. Everyone could've gotten a better arc during volume 4. Ruby could've questioned her silver eyes when Qrow told her about the silver eyed warriors and use that knowledge to want to train and use them effectively, possibly even finding out that it takes her thinking of a single concrete goal to activate them willingly. Weiss, who still wants to make the SDC better, could use this journey to better relations between the schnee's and faunus. She could still learn to summon and would still use them, but only a bind/as a distraction for enemies like Tyrian. Also she'd have summoning be a sub ability as she countinues to perfect her fencing skills. Also a little side note, someone on one of your videos mentioned that ruby should loose crescent rose and take up one of penny's swords. This would be a perfect chance for her to train with weiss and black and forget hand to hand because it's clear she has great upper body strength from carrying her weapon daily and using it effectively in battle. Now onto Blake. Blake could still run, but maybe rather than going home, she's trailing Weiss and Ruby and keeping them safe from Grimm and maybe hostile faunus who heard of Weiss's traveling without her father. This could introduce conflict with the white fang and maybe Adam, who isn't a bitter ex anymore, but rather a leader who dislikes traitors. So he still plans to make Blake's life miserable, but not by attacking her directly, but rather her friends, who wouldn't expect an ambush of any kind. Blake could help fight off the faunus who are both a mixture of white fang members and possibly a group like Raven's. She reintegrate herself into the team, but she thinks everything is strained between them because of her abandoning Yang. That's not the case as Ruby and Weiss are simply realing from the fact this journey to find cinder won't be easy as people like Adam are trying to kill them and Grimm maybe more rampant. They would explain this to Blake, who by this point has akwardly started conversations only to be either shut down by weak responses from her friends or interrupted by constant danger. But after she takes all that in and removes her bow (which is a sign of her changing and vowing that she won't run and hide anymore) she's happy to be back with her family. Finally there's yang who's the last to join the group as she's dealing with the loss of her arm and PTSD thanks to Adam. She gets her new arm and rejects it at first, but after realizing that using it can help her move on, she wears it the next day like she did in I think episode 8 of volume 4. I can't remember. She still tracks ruby, and runs into the bandit tribe, but when she meets raven, she snubs her, not caring that her first arc of finding her mother is complete as she has more important things to worry about. Raven, who's obviously upset by this, uses her semblance to send yang to ruby Qrow who I like to think is following the group in his bird form. He's just acting as a pair of extra eyes and will possibly earn the four about tyrian once they come together in that village team ranger fought them in. Yang questions why Raven would send her to a bird and maybe jokes that is probably Qrow, even going so far as to notice that the bird has pink eyes like him. She can't investigate for long however as the Qrow flies off and something tells her to follow it (as its flying in a straight line towards the village rather than upwards and away from her. I think Qrow may have even hopped onto her shoulder before flying off) Now there's the fight, with tyrian saying that yang interest her, maybe even saying that she has the same eyes as raven, bu doesn't mention her by name. I don't know what he'd say honestly. Everyone's on their toes with tyrian, with weiss using her glyphs and dust to stay at a distance, Blake is using her shadows to dance around tyrian and deal some damage to him with Ruby's help as she's blocking his stinger thanks her speed. And yang is just hesitating as thoughts of Adam come and go out of her mind as Tyrian in a way reminds her of him. It's not until Ruby's aura is broken (and taking a note from Unicorn of War here by mentioning that when a person's aura is broken their semblances can't be used any longer) so when Tyrian is about to sting her, yang rushes forward, grabs it with her metal arm and holds in place. Weiss binds Tyrian with a black glyph and Blake cuts it off. Tyrian still runs off to Salem and Qrow will appear to congratulate the girls on fending Tyrian off, but he warns them that he's not the only one who'll come after them. Qrow travels with the group, explaining who Salem is and what her goal is, calling her the queen of Grimm and saying she wants the relics. He'll also tell the group that Cinder, Emerald and Mercury are but three of her pawns who'll help in any way to get them first. I feel like knowledge of the gods is common, so Jin's flashback has a little more weight to it when it's revealed that Ozpin and Salem have history and that remnant in the beginning was merely an experiment before the gods abandoned it. Now as for Jaune, Ren, Nora and Oscar I'm not sure about them just yet.
Because you literally just took all they have to feed the RWBY train. They can easily have their own issues that don't take from team RNJR's own problems.
@@rashan141 Uhm I'm sorry? This was just my take on things. I wasn't saying this is a better version (because there are others who could do way better than me), but I just felt volume 3-4 should've included Team RWBY altogether rather than separately. Jaune, Ren and Nora would have arcs too, but I couldn't figure out a way to include them with RWBY.
I still feel like it makes perfect sense for Qrow to fight Tyrian. He sees the girls in danger and being attacked by someone who works for Salem. He knows they will have a hard time winning because its 4 teenagers up against someone with years more experience than them. He joins the battle and is wary of his own semblance so he tells them to distance themselves so he doesn't hurt the people he is trying to protect. The reason why he gets hurt isn't that he is not a competent fighter but because he's saving someone who he cares for. This means one of Qrow's weakness is teammates which explains why he distances himself from everyone. It's a good exposition for his semblance. With your example, it doesn't make sense why he would just oversee his niece and her sister fight a battle with Tyrian since he knows of Salem's power and would be unmatched. It shows that there are battles that they can't win with just good teamwork and some training. But the main point is that if RWBY were able to defeat Tyrian without the help of Qrow, it makes him and other Salem's fighters seem less strong. Tyrian could still hold his ground when going up against an elite huntsman which shows that he is a force to be reckoned with. If Qrow does fight alongside the others, he will definitely tell them to stay away and have the solo fight with Tyrian etc etc.
They wanted Jaune to start his revenge arc after volume 3 and move him to the leader. THat's why they cut off Yang's arm to Rock Lee her for an entire volume, Weiss literally could have left at any time in that volume. her being stuck at her home made no sense and don't get me started on how they purposely created menagerie like they did to downplay all of Blake's racism plot. Volume 4 was the fall of rwby and the rise of Jaune as the main
The problem is I feel like I like Jaunes stuff was pretty fun on its own and it would be a good spinoff series set in the world or Remnant. If there was a show about the underdog self improving while all this other stuff goes on around him, I feel like that would've been a better way to have handled his story.
Maybe it's just that I saw the first Volume all in one sitting and dropped out early in Volume 3, but I've always thought of Ruby as the protagonist, Jaune as the deuteragonist, and WBY & NPR as the first ranks of secondary characters. I thought Ruby was short on development, but that seemed to be because RWBY's writers had a poor understanding of character development in general (Weiss's two single-conversation "arcs" in Volume 1 being the obvious example). Looking at how certain trends continued, though, it's clear that other problems are going on there, too...
"Jaune as the deuteragonist" The problem is that jaune doesn't really do much to earn that title except get lots of screen time, nothing he does is really that relevant. Its like Chun-Li in the 90s Street Fighter live action movie going on about her dead father while the main villain and hero don't give two shits about it.
@@Hartzilla2007 Jaune's problem isn't so much that he doesn't do anything as it is that RWBY and JNPR's stories barely interact. That wasn't weird in Volume 1, both because the problem wasn't as pronounced then (Ruby and Jaune sometimes gave each other a bit of emotional support) and because nobody's stories really overlapped with any of the other stories. I assumed that the separate storylines would eventually converge through most of Volume 2. That just...never happened.
@@timothymclean "Jaune's problem isn't so much that he doesn't do anything as it is that RWBY and JNPR's stories barely interact." No he really just doesn't do anything. I mean nobody but him really cares about Pyrrha dying, and it's not helped that his involvement in the main plot was Ozpin just handing important character status to Pyrrha out of the blue based entirely on OFFSCREEN interactions that were never even hinted at until it was time to drag her into the main plot. Hell even the assumptions that Jaune's screen time will be important are based more on people realising that if he doesn't get a major pay off they wasted time on him so his fans desperately cling to a payoff that may never come.
@@Hartzilla2007 First, keep in mind that I'm discussing Volumes 1 and 2, the only ones I've completed. I've tried to make that clear, but I might as well restate it. In each of those volumes, Jaune has his own storyline. Everything around the dance was kinda weak (especially considering how high the stakes had already become in Ruby's story), and the bully plot was kinda cliché, but both had him do things and grow slightly as a character.
@@timothymclean I entirely agree with your perspective and do think Ruby and Jaune's arcs overlapped. The started out overlapping on Ruby's first day of school when they both kind of awkwardly bonded over not fitting in. Then after the become leaders they overlapped as they empathized with each other over leading. And then I thought their arcs had entirely converged at the end of season 3 when Ruby and Jaune teamed up to take down Cinder. The fact that Ruby left her team to go with Jaune told me that the rest of Team RWBY was not as important as Ruby herself and we were about to get an epic arc focusing on the interactions between the Protagonist and the Deuteragonist. At least, that's what I thought would happen but RT kind of dropped the ball on season 4 and they've never picked it up. You are correct in your characters of Ruby and Jaune, I have always thought they were the most important characters and they work best when their arc mirror each other. They are both leaders but with different struggles. Ruby is a good fighter who needs to learn to be a better leader and Jaune's a bad fighter who has a lot of potential to be a great leader. They work best when they bounce off of each other and in many ways, only Jaune and Ruby really understand what the other is goes through. They are both two parallel spears of the same story (at least that's how they should ideally be written). Like when the final battle occurs I don't expect it to be Team RWBY against the big bad, I expect it to be Ruby and Jaune leading the charge.
I saw someone say that maybe Oscar was meant to be the same person as jaune, which I kinda see especially in how their relationship to ruby works. Because look at all the little interactions especially in volume 7 that Oscar and ruby have are very similar to ones ruby and jaune have in volume 1-3, this I think would have been a really good choice to make, we would have gotten possibly an interesting character arc about coming to terms with his hatred for ozpin while ozpin is in his head, maybe this could have been an ozpin arc about the self hatred he feels for some of the things he has done and mistakes he has made. I do think qrow should get to make discoveries and do things he is an adult they are kids maybe they will save the world but he is way more competent than him. The way rwby has so many main characters is actually something I really like because I like that the main character are not doing everything, but I think the biggest problem is screen time. I mean I think it was obvious that cinder was just reveling in screwing with jaune like she was just having fun and then as what often happens when you do that something surprised her and she almost slipped up and got dead I also think ruby should have an arc where she just snaps, maybe another main character dies and she just loses it, the way she talks to Oscar about losing her friends made it seem to me that she was repressing and closeting off her emotions of grief to be there for her team and I think this is something they really should play into because it’s interesting especially with how it plays back to her talk to jaune about being a leader, she thinks she doesn’t get to be weak or a failure or in pain, she thinks she doesn’t have time to grieve because she needs to be there for her team and so she represses and represses these feelings and at some point they all come out. This one arc or event I think could turn ruby from boring and uninteresting to an amazing character, because they seeds are all there, you can see these little moments if you look closely where she seems sad and then just ignores it and moves on because others are around.
I wholeheartedly believe Jaune wouldn't get the kind of focus that he does if Miles didn't voice him. He'd likely be just as secondary as Ren and Nora. Tbh I feel like Pyrrha should have been the member of JNPR that got the most focus in the first 3 volumes, given her later importance to the main plot. It'd make that shift seem less sudden anyway and wouldn't tie up her characterization with Jaune. Further, that would maybe allow them to establish an *actual* friendship with her and Ruby, which would make Ruby's reaction to her death that much more impactful. Jaune honestly has to be my least favorite of the main cast. The heroes, anyway. His existence just takes away opportunities for character growth from just about everyone. RWBY doesn't actually stand for Ruby, Weiss, Blake, and Yang, it stands for "Raging Whiney Blonde Youth" But seriously though, Volume 7 did so much better with Jaune. Put him in the back seat where he belongs. Here's hoping Volume 8 keeps that going. He doesn't need more "growth", he's done, he's had enough. I know I've certainly had enough 🙄
Yeah her reaction to Pyrrha dying in the series feels a little unbelievable to me, I would hardly consider them acquaintances let alone actual friends, mainly based off their lack of interaction but also due to the fact Pyrrha didn’t/barely interacted with anyone that wasn’t Jaune.
the writers knew one thing: they didn't want to spend their days writing shojo. So they basically took Sokka from Avatar and said: this is what avatar would have been if they made Sokka the main character. Ask yourself: would avatar be as successful if it was SOKKA the person we be following and not the Last airbender on the planet? Yep
I like the main cast personally. I like Yang quite a lot even if the show seems adamant on shoving her out of focus whenever possible. I know people harp on Blake but I was never that bothered by her.
Weiss will likely be ruined by the end of the Atlas arc anyway when they inevitably end her character arc so she is just along for the ride going into the Vacuo arc. I like her too, but after seeing what they did with Blake and Yang, I am not holding out much hope.
@@jjilatt123 It would definitely help if Yang's arcs actually amounted to something. Her pursuit of Raven ends up being rushed and hollow and the same goes with her Adam PTSD.
An interesting point that you didn't mention is that because Vol 3 focused so heavily on Jaune and Pyrrha, they kind of wasted a lot of really well done exposition that they then had to repeat really sloppily to our main cast in Vol 4 & 5. I almost wonder if it would have been better to skip those really dramatic exposition scenes entirely and have the reason Pyrrha was involved in all this just left a mystery because then it puts us, the audience, on the same page as Jaune and Ruby, the supposed protagonists. Then we're left to wonder what the hell happened just like the characters, and we could have had a really well done exposition scene that centered around Team RWBY, and not just a secondary character who died. IDK, maybe I'm just projecting my hope that that the mystery would stretch out longer; we got no lore in Vol 1 & 2, then we got some really cool stuff in Vol 3, but then in Vol 4, 5, and 6 we've continued to get these huge updates to the lore that basically explain everything and I'm just like...there was a really mysterious air around the earlier seasons of RWBY despite the lighthearted atmosphere, and as we've basically learned the entire plot it feels like that has gone away.
That did result in bad exposition, didn't it. Personally, I wish they had made RWBY some how incorporated into the maiden plot (beyond Ruby's eyes going off) so then it wasn't just the "Pyrrha show".
@@twiinsiink You want to know something when Ozpin was talking about his choice for the new Fall Maiden being a student he has seen great potential in since he met her I honestly thought he was talking about Ruby until Pyrrha showed up becuase she's literally been the student he interacted with the most and an actual showed an interest in.
Qrow was literally so good til they decided to make him a main character of the cast. I liked the idea that he was following around the kids, making sure they were safe, but stayed out of the way, he knows that they are strong and that this is somethign they are meant to do and work towards so he stays mostly out of it. Im okay with him coming in ont he Tyrian fight, but soemhow it seemed super off. I like that he showed up the second that the team started to lose, after that he should have fought along w i t h them and when he didn't it was at that pint that the entire character got messed up from there. He should have shown up to save the team and then guide them haven, then he lets the kids be more in charge again while he worries about other things. He shouldn't be at the front of the group, I think he would stay with them and be at the end of the volume 5 fight for sure, and then during the next volume hes supposed to be just tagging along, being the adult figure to help out but staying on the side and out of the way. Once they reach atlas he should almost leave the main plot entirely. He should be working wiht iron wood and other characters like that and doing other important things that he can do while the kids focus on the main plot, he wasn't supposed to take over so much. I think had they just kept him a little more to the side he would still be an amazing character
The moment I sensed doom for the protagonist problem is when I was watching the show for the first time I immediately liked team JNPR more than the main four girls... They were more down to earth, had more investment in the main setting of the school (main four always had to find a plot away from it), had more room to grow in battle and team training, more interesting background and mysterious backstories, semblances that didn't have to constantly revolve around battle and act as a "win" button. I dunno, I just ... didn’t like the main four *at all*. This isn’t a hindsight realization at all either, I fully thought so when I was watching it for the first time. I liked watching JNPR more in the fight scenes too. I wasn't aware the color trailers even existed for the longest time and kept wondering why I was meant to be interesting in these characters, or waiting for Weiss's scar to be alluded to in some kind of pivotal moment to lead into a "oh snap" backstory. My disappointment when I watched the trailer and the answers was, "oh yeah, she just got hit, like, really hard in an irrelevant day-to-day battle like any other fight we'll have". Ah, man. Oh well. Great. Alrighty then 😅
This is probably the biggest issue with having too many characters being focused on - time that could be used to develop the main four is quickly burned away for the sake of everyone else.
Well this whole situation reminds me about Final Fantasy X and XII, where we play as some blond dudes who are "main" protagonists... but after some time you notices that they are just some very strong NPCs from which point of view we see whole story and in reality main characters are some other people. And situation with Ruby as main character and Jaune as side character is something like if in Final Fantasy VIII main character was Selfie and Squall and Rinoa were side characters and their whole love story and development was going on somewhere else, not where Selfie and her own gang is... Also if it was normal show with Jaune as main character who grows as a person and finds new friends and get stronger then RWBY team would be those friendly allied team with elite NPCs who saves main team's asses in some bad situations... And I think the core problem is that the main characters always were men, not women and somewhere deep in our unconciousness we just can't accept women as main hero. Because what kind of development in reality those girls could have? How could they grow as a characters? And what personal drama and story could be interesting? In reality people unconciously can accept them as, you know, "princesses", who wait their own personal prince with whom they will, khem, make babies... Not as Heroes who will save the world. And i think author unconcioussly got that problem, that's why he invented Jaune in the story with four girls main team, because he knew that people would be like "yeah, those girls are great fighters and they are cool, and they have some teenager girly dramas, yeah, yeah... so, where is the main hero, dude?" P.S.: Sorry for my Engrish)
@@fightingmedialounge519 Yeah but only if they are attached to a male mc who takes a big chunk of the story and she is just there for the action sequences. if the story isn't about the girl finding love, people are going to be like: okay so where's the male main character who will get the coolest girl in school to fall in love with them?
Imagine how cool it would have been if in the cinder fight Cinder HAD killed Raven. And then the maiden power went to Yang. Now that would have been well done character development, showing Yang was the last one in Raven’s mind when she dies, insinuating that despite her cold exterior, she cares for her daughter. It also could have been really fascinating for Yang, the most physical and melee based of the girl, to have new nature powers she couldn’t really control. Maybe it could show her trying and failing to learn to use them, getting frustrated over it similar to the loss of her arm, only this time she isn’t as alone. I feel like it could have been so cute to have had , in the next volume, Weiss, who just had to learn to use powers of her own, supporting yang through that. Or Blake being there in battle to support Yang or help her control her new powers. I feel like there was so much potential for that, and it would have been a good reason to give the four main girls more screen time, but instead we had a Angsty barn scene with the Yang and Blake that had no resolution but was apparently forgotten? And maybe one moment of interaction between Blake and Weiss. I just want the girls to have most of the focus because so much of their dynamic should have been shifted due to their personalities changing, but nope. instead we got Qrow drinking.
I will admit that would be cool. It also would have set up a rivalry between Cinder and Yang. Both are maidens, both lost an arm, cinder lost her arm to yang's sister, yang lost her mother to cinder. They already droped cinder vs ruby rivalry, might as well set up a new one
Honestly I had mixed feelings over Jaune, but I eventually started to like him... until I discovered he was a self insert of one of the writers. Oh boy...
@@ebicbarton he is voiced by the head writer. this is why the show is dragging. everything has to be dumb down and slowed down so Jaune can be relevant in the plot. he is landing hits on a maiden because of plot and saving weiss so he gets his moments to shine. seriously. who believed that weiss was going to die in that moment?
You know if the show aren't going to make RWBY team the protagonist they shouldn't have named the show RWBY in the first place. Idk name the show "hunters of remnant" or something
I get why Oscar is like a main character Salem is After him so no matter what even if tin,jance ,Nora an others be side team rwby Oscar will be a lot more in the main cast Oscar isn't an imposter but is a mc caz he has to fight Salem along side ruby and team rwby no matter what
I just noticed, do they ever bring up Jaune's semblance in volume 6. They seem to just ignore and forget about it in favor of developing the silver eyes.
It plays a role in the first episode and the last one. The real bummer is how boring they are about it. They only use it to give Ren's Semblance a boost. I think it would be really fun if Jaune super powered the others to create crazy fight scenarios (Ruby moves so fast she's impossible to track, Blake can use multiple copies at the same time, etc).
I'd be okay if the whole rwby team would die or whatever. It would free up the cast. I'd start with blake and maybe ruby, they don't exactly have personalities all the much. Or maybe it should be the other way around to give them personalities.
Which just say all sorts of things about his fans what with the female characters pretty much existing to pijne for Jaune, or them tossing out the actual Jaune for an overpowered OC with his name, or how the fucking universe just revolves around his ass.
because that's all that is left to this story. they made him the main focus. of course, the only people invested enough to write fan fic would be a bout Jaune. he is the 'insert me' protagonist. no op powers, gets to hang out with 5 girls because of plot but only 0 are available to him in the actual story so those fans go on to write fan fic where they are Jaune and how they want Jaune to deal with things
I've been mad about Jaune for years. He should have died in Volume 3 trying to face Cinder. Instead, he's still here, and fell into Neverland/Wonderland with the main team. Honestly the part that felt the pettiest to me was when they gave Jaune a haircut to match Miles.
If you had to form teams using the characters from team RWBY and JNPR, what combinations would you make to have an interesting story? One has to be the protagonist team and another the secondary one. Greetings from Argentina.!!!!
Wow I totally forgot the interaction between Jaune and Tyrian back in V4. Now that V7 has concluded, do we know why Tyrian thought Jaune was "Interesting"?
@@twiinsiink Mmm maybe, think the theory for the longest time had to do with Jaune being a descendant of the King of Vale yeah? If this isn't a thread that leads nowhere or been forgotten about; Perhaps Salem might shed light on it should the two actually meet.
Can we all take a moment to reflect on the fact that Jaune is melted down and augmented the armor of his dead love team mate with his armor? Does no one else find this mildly disturbing?
Don't see what's disturbing about that? It's like when Aragorn takes Boromir's gauntlets at the end of Fellowship of The Ring. They're keeping a ""piece" of their friend with them on the journey, and by making that "piece" be armor, it's like the dead companion is protecting them even in death (as Pyrrha tended to do for Jaune, and as Boromir would have done for Aragorn once he took the throne).
it was disturbing and out of pocket. like literally you have no idea who gave those things to Pyrrha and he melts them down and we are just supposed to keep thinking is okay? I'm expecting jaune to get a maiden power as well. his plot armor is incredible
A question comes to mind...could it have been possible to have Team RWBY and Team JNPR as main characters but have more focus on the former? Could this have worked?
Absolutely. Keeping the minor characters in a minor role works perfectly. You'll notice that Ren and Nora aren't considered "imposter protagonists" in my video, because even though they're also involved in the main plot of the show they aren't given many important things to do (unless they're specifically given an arc).
@@twiinsiink Ok, so that's good, it also makes me think that maybe those episodes that focused more on a character could've worked better if they focused on more than one character rather than...well, what we got? Like for example, in volume 1 there could've been an episode focused on JNPR as a team while team RWBY is the main focus in another episode showing a contrast in how both teams are growing, be it in fights or how they get along. I could be wrong, I'm by no means an expert in storytelling. Thanks for replying!
From what I understand, team JNPR and RWBY were the 8 protagonists of the show in the beginning, with team RWBY having more emphasis in the starting of the show. Then Jaundice happened, and the super negative backlash made almost all of the attention fall back to RWBY after the JNPR (see Jaune) arc.
I know this is a old video by this point and my comment wont matter, but honestly I like these characters more than team RWBY except for Ruby herself I do really like her. So the writers focusing on Jaune, Qrow, and Oscar doesn't feel like a problem to me, I just never was too interested in the rest of the cast, which is probably a bad thing if I really think about it.
Yet another symptom of the fiction-wide problem of writers being reluctant to take risks with female characters, because "we don't want teh whamens to get hurt or upset. Whamens always gotta be unchallenged" and end up having to outsource all the character development to male characters. Doctor Who had the same problem. This is like every single work that aims for diversity ever. It's unintentionally hilarious. They wanna get rid of the symptom of boring female characters, but refuse to cut the illness at its source, that being people's general attitude of not wanting to see women in any serious pain, or be proven wrong.
Yeah this is basically what I was saying before. They give all the problems to the male characters because they don't want to offend women. So it ends up feeling like the male characters are the only ones with room to grow whereas Team RWBY stays stagnant because RT tries to keep them as "perfect". Ironically it is imperfections that make great characters so the main Team will always suffer from this.
@@heyarnold7256 BuT wE nEeD bEtTeR fEmAlE rOlE mOdElS. tHat'S wHy ThEy CaN't HaVe FlAwS. Hilariously enough the people who say that end up whining about how women are expected to be perfect all the time lol. Oh boy. We truly live in a society, don't we?
Akame Ga Kill basically. I went into that series thinking Akame was the main just to be giving generic teen gets sucked into a world of evil hunters he literally did not need to enter. he avenged his friends in the first episode. WHY are you following them? to avenge the friends you lost? you just killed the woman who killed them. the writer are making an excuse on the fly to make him the main protagonist. his revenge arc was resolved on the first episode which is basically the generic trope that is keeping Jaune as the main
I noticed this while watching the newer seasons and its honestly why I stopped watching for so long. I care about the main 4 girls, not the background characters. Qrow is an interesting character and honestly I'm fine with him being added, but Ren and Nora being thrown in the group feels... weird and random. I get its literally just so you can see them in later seasons but I can't help but feel they make it feel crowded now. and yeah Jaune has WAY too much screen time. its called RWBY not... Jaune..
It sounds dumb, but in a way they're not wholly incorrect. With the amount of time that is dedicated to watching Cinder's plot every volume, she certainly has what COULD be what it would take to make her a second protagonist (like Zuko from Avatar: The Last Airbender). Hell, I fully believe her screentime more than doubles Ruby's- our actual (or so they say) protagonist. The issue is really that Cinder is never allowed to develop. The thing that categorizes a character as "protagonist" is the fact that they are the one who must grow the most throughout a story. Cinder has been given plenty of opportunities to grow (far more than any of our RWBY girls), and yet just refuses to veer away from the same "sexy evil bullshit" that she's always done. In short, she could be a protagonist, if the writers actually knew what they were doing.
Would Jaune still be considered a self-insert if team rwby wasn't there? Or if he was actually a main character? So him getting screen time or development wouldn't be stolen from other characters
With how many volumes it's been as of now I want ruby to get an arc. Like just spend all of volume 9 with ruby dealing with penny's death and deciding what to do with Neo. Hopefully killing her. Ruby could very well be an interesting character, we've all seen shows where the heroic character who's happy go lucky sees that the world is dark and that not everyone can be saved. Rather than trying to save everyone she should think whether everyone is worth saving and better herself to actually save the people she cares about. But this is all dependent on the writers which socks, cause I want to watch rwby for ruby
trust me, Jaune is going to be there so expect Jaune to have the biggest and best development in that volume meanwhile they probably will give Ruby some vague doctor who explanation like: your eyes can freeze Grimm but they are so much more and its up to you to learn to unlock all of your abilities. this is all set up for the 4 to have all the maiden powers and we will probably see Jaune commanding them(like they were his pokemon) and telling them to destroy Salem with those powers to seem like the true hero.
Lightdragoon88 It's a marketing problem. If they really wanted Oscar and Jaune to be the protagonist, they should have done that in the first place in the trailers. They could give a Jaune and Oscar trailer and just ditch the red, yellow, white and black trailer.
the girls finished their character arcs already. Ruby is more responsible and a leader, Yang is over with her party girl personality and is more calm and serious, Blake won't run away when bad stuff happens, and Weiss isn't a snobby racist rich girl anymore. That's it. There aren't any personal obstacle they have to overcome anymore. Usually you make your protagonist's character arc span over the entire story, making them struggle to overcome/control their bad habits or negative personality traits, but RWBY got it over with in less than 6 seasons. Theire done. You can't show the girls struggle to change when the change has already happened. All that's left is for the supporting cast to have their character arcs. The show runners inability to write a proper story forced them into a corner. They either have to come up with a new obstacle, which would be incredibly obvious and forced, or pretend that the c. arc's never finished, which would then again cements their bad writing and ruin the characters.
Ruby constantly leaves her team behind to fight by herself, even when she's way in over her head. I wouldn't call that responsible. Yang was just extroverted and flirtatious. Yang doesn't seem calm or serious. She is constantly complaining, and in a bad mood. I think Weiss's character arc will end in Atlas, where her change of character will be challenged. It's too early to tell if Blake truly changed, though it does seem she changed since the White Fang aren't an issue for her at the moment.
their arcs aren't supposed to end. their motivations needed to be aligned against the villains. this is how every story works. fans don't care that Jaune is on a revenge arc because he sucks and the majority of the audience doesn't care about Jaune either. they wasted vol4 starting his revenge story arc and that's where they lost the majority of their original fan base because what is the point? he isn't going to be a candidate for the maiden powers. Japan was their biggest market after the US and they haven't translated a single volume after vol4 to Japanese. That's why they delayed volume 9, the backlash from volume 8 was too much that they angered the US fan base as well, how can you anger these many people? this takes talent bro. Everything that has happened is because of Jaune's rise to power & revenge arc, which is dumb when you realize he isn't strong enough to take down cinder and never will be because his semblance sucks and he is too unskilled. We're talking about someone who has maiden powers and Jaune can't become a maiden by definition. so his arc about avenging Pyhrra is completely pointless to the story of rwby. it feels like it belongs on a generic show nobody is going to watch because it won't have rwby as cover models. just him.
@@Angi3_6 blame the writters. stop acting like rwby are real people bruh. they are being written like that for the sake of jaune having plot armor to stay around
Now that I’m thinking about it, how would it turn out if phyrra’s character arc in season 3 happened off screen and we only saw her deep in thought about inheriting fall’s power? It could have been a distraction during her fight with penny(assuming it wasn’t) and we see her death without any context? Juan could’ve told the story but by bit in season 4. Edit: excuse my misspelling
I'm glad Jaune finally seemed to reach a conclusion with his visit to the Pyrrha statue. I liked that the girls got to do so much this time around, but I still lament that Ruby didn't get to do much outside of giving inspirational monologues. Her silver eyes scene was cool, but I wish we had spend a little more time discussing them or something leading up to the finale. What did you think?
@@twiinsiink Yeah, I think they could have condensed her two speeches to Qrow into one, since they revolve around the same idea. Still, it was good to see her be disappointed by her idols and grab the helm. She had to confront Ozpin's lies, her team giving up, her uncle bad tendencies, and an obstructive military. She had no ream answer to their problem except to keep going, but her determination still managed to lead them to their objective, and did good along the way, like for example she found a city distrusting the foreign garrison, for what the commander's considered as ungrateful and used her powers as an excuse to look down on everyone. She left it after humbling said commander, opening her eyes on her duty to protect the people just for the sake of doing what's right, which in turn showed the city was indeed grateful for their protection. It could have been better, but it's still a better direction than the two previous volume when they tried to present the idea (like with Jaune's speech in Kuroyuri or Ozpin talking about her in V5) but didn't really show it. As for her silver eyes, it was about time they do something with it. I was a bit skeptical at first about the show needing Maria when Ruby already had two mentors with Qrow and Ozpin, but they did a good job with her. I really like their scene in the garden, and Ruby learning about her powers from an elderly woman who share other similarities with her (a friend of mine described her as "a Ruby who gave up") was a nice touch too. A bit of a shame Summer wasn't mentionned there, I think it could have helped for the later scenes (both Ruby standing for herself and her group, and finally using her eyes on her own). Letting Jaune and his teammates on the backburner for half the volume was also a good idea to focus more on the girls. It also gave us sweet moments between him and Ruby that I enjoyed. And while he was the focus when they caught up with the news, the scene at Pyrrha's status, or being the one who got the idea to solce their problems, they also let the other shine as well (like, Nora and Ren reaching for him and helping him reach his conclusion). Like said earlier, Qrow falling into despair, becoming a burden for Ruby to handle, was also a good call. They didn't solve the root of his problems, but him accepting Ruby taking charge, and acknowledging her growth in maturity was alright. But it would be nice to show him do some actual mentoring. I still have a problem with Oscar. I was starting to like hi, but like in V4, they skipped the most important scene in his arc, when he makes the decision to stay. Not helping is that at the same time, it pretty much already was the same arc than in the previous two volumes. And while it was nice to see the girls taking action, I feel like Weiss kinda had the short end of the stick. She had some great moments, but she didn't really steal a scene or an episode like her teammates. I hope V7 taking place in Atlas will let her more in the spotlight. All in all, to me the volume took steps in the right direction, though they still have room for improvement.
This show should be called JNPR because that team cares more about friendship and understanding each other while RWBY just... What was their motivations again? All I see is Bumblebee now.
It feels more like team RW BY, I mean when was the last time Blake and Ruby talked to each other? It sure would be nice if they would let characters to interact with each other
Actually when’s the last time yang and ruby talked to each other. Now I don’t mean something about a mission or the plot but a time where they sat down AND HAD A HEART TO HEART to each other like normal sisters. Remember there was a point In time where yang basically had to raise ruby by herself so wouldn’t she want to be around ruby more?
![Fixing RWBY | Volume 6 [FINALE: Maze of Thorns]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/L8KjlEWFUm8/mqdefault.jpg)
Nah Fam Jaune is the real protagonist and Ruby Rose is some side character that everyone pretends is the main character. After all, he's the one with motivation and character Arc (for the sake of argument anyway). I wonder why that is, Miles.
The main question I asked is: "how does this person influence the world around them"
Jaune _does_ have the closest thing to a real character arc in the show; he has to gain skill and confidence and stuff, and that's been central to his character for...well, for as long as I kept up with RWBY at least. The "character arcs" other characters go through are too rushed to really count as arcs. Take Weiss, who goes through two rapid-fire "character arcs" in the second half of Volume 1. A problem is set up, it's made obvious in one conversation, now it's all better and we can move on.
@@adonaimelles2317 That's like saying Yamcha is a main character of Dragon Ball Z because he fights with Goku and was also trained by Master Roshi. WBY and NPR are supporting characters to the main characters Ruby and Jaune.
@@adonaimelles2317 I think jnpr's existence ruins ruby's potential
Just trash rwby and focus on jnpr instead, they have much more potential
The earliest criticism that really sold this point to me was the question asked, "WHO are JNPR to the heroes?" And the criticism that the answer literally was "Meh, school friends."
JNPR are not rivals: not rivals for grades, for first pick of missions, for getting the best huntsmen mentor. JNPR are not minor antagonists: well-meaning fellow students who disagree with how RWBY handles things, or who deal with completely normal problems and are confused by all the "save the world" stress RWBY is under, or flawed, biased, edgier characters who don't get their sisterhood and power of friendship schtick.
JNPR are just... friends. No distinct POV, no source of conflict, but then slowly having more screentime because the actual main characters are only allowed one plot thread each. Out of the entire show, THE most interesting parts of RWBY/JNPR have been Monsters and Heroes and Best Day Ever. Nothing else compares.
That’s really sad
Jaune is main character confirmed.
not gonna lie, I kinda liked Jaune and Phyrra as mc's
@@baddubs2826 i would love an au show that focuses entirely on them, as Pyrrha is the best
Jaune would actually be more interesting if he was more like THE REAL LIFE PERSON he's named after. Jeanne of Arc is a fascinating figure to study, unlike Jaune.
I'm down for that
@@ElvenRaptor honestly, I see no similarities between them besides the name and look
Jaune is wearing armor. *PLOT ARMOR CONFIRMED HE IS THE MAIN CHARACTER ALL A LONG*
yup. he has been the most protected character in the series. they even gave him a semblance to justify being around the main cast.. Its JRWBY tbh
The Rwby writing suffers because of the production's toxic pyramid scheme system. The rwby production team started small, but the founders have stayed at the top as more employees are brought in. At the top of the pyramid currently are the writers. The writers have a lot of experience on writing and take input from everyone on the crwby team to make the show as good as possible. However, their writing suffers consistently. On a normal animated show, a writer who is not doing his job to the quality asked of them must answer to a producer. The producer sits down with the writer to discuss how to solve the problem. Put plainly, the producers says "Do your job to the level of quality we ask, or you will be replaced." However, The rwby production team has the main writers at the very top. They are not forced to answer to anyone that can threaten their job. So, the quality of writing in rwby is a direct result of a poor production dynamic that benefits the writers, but not the writing.
I have spoken with some of the crew that worked on rwby, and it seems they have accepted the writing is bad, but are not allowed to address it.
That is sad to hear, but a good note to keep on the effects a power dynamic can have on one's ability to please an audience. George Lucas naturally fell into a similar direction when creating the STAR-WARS prequels, not having his vision be questioned. Heck, it seems a lot of the reason movie sequels have such a bad reputation is writers tend to be given more leniency in future projects. I don't want to believe all writers are inherently destined to take this path, but it is easy to see this as a trend. Perhaps the lesson is simply, never put one's self beyond criticism, and don't let fame limit one's drive.
@@R0-83-RT to be honest I actually enjoyed the prequels, sure they had their flaws but they were overall good movies.
This would be much less of a problem if it weren't for RWBY being essentially less than half the length of a regular anime, yet still trying to accomplish the same amount of storytelling with their tight schedule. Qrow was always meant as a mentor figure to Ruby but became essentially baggage since Volume 4, making his original role as mentor useless. He never teaches Ruby anything, so there's no reason for him to be there. That's why he jobbed so hard in Volumes 5-6, it's clear they don't know what to do with him at this point so they make the professional veteran Huntsman lose for some reason so the kids can save him.
Stumbled across your vids and will be summarily binging them now. Really good insights.
I kind of want Qrow to get killed off to help create drama. Basically the mentor dying, passing on the torch and make us think the group are in actual danger.
In the V6 opening he was being dragged down by some Grimm so I assumed he was going to die this volume but he didn't.
He started off as a bodyguard/guardian, but now he is jobbing so hard like in the Battle of Haven so he doesn't feel like a professional huntsman anymore. He has some interesting dynamics with Winter and Ironwood, but are they really necessary to expand upon when the group reaches Atlas?
Although killing off Qrow while the Vic Mignogna drama is going on may leave a sour taste.
Switchback crow should die with some dignity before they destroy his character more
Qrow should have died or deemed unable to fight after that whole arc
@@sirkillalot9892 I have a strong feeling they going to force a romance between Qrowe and Winter.
@@mariobadia4553 I am a shipper. I like their dynamic but it isn't necessary for the plot.
Compare Team RWBY to the Gryffindor trio. Harry solemnly swore he was up to no good and spent a solid 6 years investigating every square in of Hogwarts, Ron had a family tale for every occasion and ended up being the catalyst for them learning the Deathly Hallows, and Hermione could research absolutely anything. .... They were 11-17 year old kids, taking on the fate of the world voluntarily.
How well developed are Team RWBY's investigative skills to them: 15-19 year old women who are training to be a part of an international security force against monsters and bandits?
Even when Rowling wanted to show Dumbledore or Snape's prowess, 80% of the time, Harry was with them, learning under them. The other 20% was without Harry specifically to build dramatic irony and tension for when Harry did find out. Because NO information is important in a story outside of how the MAIN CHARACTER uses it. Do Miles and Kerry know who RWBY's main character is anymore?!
One thing that I asked myself a few weeks ago was "if RWBY had to end tomorrow in one episode, what story would they tell?" and the conclusion I came up to was Jaune seeking revenge.
The main team has nothing going for them anymore, the team has noting going for them, Adam wasn't even that big of a threat after V5 and well, you know... Ozpin and Salem's story can be reduced to what it was when the show started, one makes grimm, the other trains students and the world goes on as normal.
that's why the writing for the girls even at the beginning was sloppy at best. Jaune, ren, Pyrrha and Nora literally got the dance number, the development and everything in between meanwhile rwby got: the racism subplot. Yikes
RWBY: Is a shojo fantasy action school girl anime that verges on Magical Girl and prominently features female protagonists.
Also RWBY: pushes its female leads aside so that the male characters can steal all of their spotlight and character development, and the strongest female character in the group is turned into a girlfriend in the fridge for a male character's development.
I do not know if Volume 8 was already out when you wrote this comment, but if it wasn’t, damn didn’t you predict the future.
Monty: Im going to make all the protagonists into girls so it can stand out at the time.
Which at the time was forward thinking.
The writers: Um... screw that. let's make it into a shonen and introduce this Jaune Arc guy that is going to be voiced by one of the writers and have the coolest girl in school randomly fall in love with him for no reason...
I think this video is improperly labeled. Calling them "impostors" is rather fallacious. Jaune IS a protagonist. Not a fake one. It's obvious he was set up to be significant from the start. Same with Oscar. The only problem here is that RT didn't give the members of Team RWBY more personal driving motivations that tie into all of their actions and a long term goal like they did with Jaune.
True, my title was in part picked because is sounds nice. I think the real problem is the fact that Jaune IS a protagonist. The show already has 4 protags (team RWBY) inserting Jaune and Oscar into that role as well feels unnecessary and only results in stunted screen time for our title team.
@@twiinsiink Thats fair. However the reason I myself see no issue with that is because I've seen stories with more than 4 protagonists yet still handle them all really well. From anime like One Piece to American Comics like X-Men, handling a main cast of 9 or even 10 or more characters is doable. Team RWBY definitely needs more focus but the problem itself isn't with Jaune, Oscar or Qrow. I think a better title for the video would be: "The Constant Neglect of Team RWBY".
@@redx589 But RWBY doesn't have the same amount time as something like One Piece.
@@redx589 If I may provide another perspective; I don't think it's necessarily that Team RWBY is being neglected. I think it's possible that RT is "attempting" to portray them as superior to the other characters by not having them struggle as much with their inherent problems as Jaune and Qrow. Which unfortunately leads to their struggles being constant and something that keeps needing to be addressed whereas with RWBY their flaws are things that are often quickly overcome. They're already strong individuals whereas it's everyone else with a lot of room to grow as characters. Thats my take on it anyway.
@@redx589 how many chapters has one piece? how many comics has the X-Men?
A one pice episode has like 24 minutes, while RWBY has 8 - 15 excluding first season episode and last season episode
Marvel and Toei animation are fucking big, comparated with them, rooster teeth is nothing
The problem is simple, they have a lot of characters but a limited amount of time
Also those stories have actual writters, I dont want to get in this mess much time, so I'll be as fast and clear as possible, Monty was a great animator, and I respect his work, so I dont want this to sound like I'm throwing rocks to his tomb, but he wasn't a great writter, M&K do their best, but they still have some problems (specially talking about continuity and consistence) that they need to improve
Even oscar's arc has problems, remember when he made the choice to lisent ozpin and leave his home? I'll give you the fast answer, you dont, cause that happend off screen
They have that limited amount of time, and even so, they dont manage to organize that time
[spoilers for RvB]
Miles was accused of having a self insert character too in the seasons he wrote for RvB. Felix was introduced in season 11 and was immediately presented as a suave mofo mercenary with a gruff exterior but a heart of gold. Most importantly: he had no weaknesses.
Rightly, Miles was accused of writing himself a Mary Sue and it was only until season 12 when we realise he was playing our main cast all along, being nice to Washington so he could learn more about their situation and encouraging Tucker as a leader only so Tucker would then lead his troops into unwinable battles.
Having Felix be somewhat of a main character makes sense because he is one of the main villains and deserves time to shine. His character went from a Mary Sue character to a deeply flawed psychopath, dependent on his partner and almost leeching off him in a way.
Felix is a compelling character because he was clearly a villain, and not in DisneyXD type 'clearly-a-villain-because-they're-laughing-evily'. But he was a roadblock for our main characters, the Reds and Blues, notably for the seasons' main character Tucker and also for his own partner Locus.
Felix was great.
Compare that to Jaune, and I'm basically just reiterating your point.
Jaune was introduced as a bumbling dork and now he's proven himself to be a capable leader and strategist.
For any other character this would be great development, just not for Jaune.
I'm not saying Jaune shouldn't have gotten any development, I'm saying that the arc (hehe) they wrote for him would've been better used if it was written for Ruby. Jaune had a ton of time devoted to his personal story when it should have been used to push the narrative they wrote for him onto Ruby.
All in all: The problem with Jaune is that he still feels like an early Felix. It feels like we're waiting for a big reveal that makes us understand why he warrants this much screentime. But revealing something like that in volume 8 would be so fucking dumb because this far into the show it would be grasping at straws instead of anything Chekrov-y.
I don't know if Miles is explicitly going out of his way to write self-inserts for him to play in the shows he acts in, but I have noticed a few recurring elements with his writing that may explain what's going on.
First: Miles seems very limited on his ability to write villains. He defaults to the suave, smooth, "better than you" sort of archetype consistently. (Also seen with Cinder, Mercury, Emerald, Jacques, and Watts). So, it's no wonder that Felix is effectively a carbon copy of Cinder, complete with all the shitty one-liners and "always one step ahead" crap.
Second: If a character is going to have a serious change happen to them, like Pyrrha dying or Felix revealing to be evil, Miles goes out of his way to make the character as likable as possible beforehand- which often leads to making them effectively perfect. Everyone loved Pyrrha, she was the strongest of the whole group, pretty, smart, charismatic- by all means Pyrrha feels like the Mary Sue OC.... except she isn't voiced by one of the writers. Felix is. Miles reuses all these techniques for Felix so as to make his "i'm evil" reveal be more emotional, but since he also voiced Felix it just ended up feeling like "I'm gunna make MY character perfect!"
Third: Miles seems to put more thought into some characters over others. From reading his tweets/RT blogs/listening to interviews and commentaries, it seems Miles dedicates a good amount of time thinking about the dynamics and emotions of the characters..... that he has a hand in. If he voices a character or is involved with the character's creation process (like how he and Kerry were in charge of developing Ren and Nora's personalities) Miles clearly cares more about "his" characters than the main ones. And that may be why the characters he voices tends to get the more interesting arcs or development, because he's not thinking about the development of the characters he's not emotionally attached to.
So, in short I don't really think Miles is writing in self-inserts, but rather that his writing practices tend to just put the characters into that direction. Which still isn't necessarily good (I hated Felix and regularly complain about Jaune's insistence of stealing screen time), but hopefully having the new writers on the team will help with that.
@@twiinsiink couldn't have said it better myself. I'm honestly amazed that guy wrote the Chorus trilogy, some of the best seasons of RvB, and went on to screw up a show like this.
Rooster teeth as a whole is slowly ruining it's shows and it's sad. Just make a finale season and put it to rest instead of keeping up the slog.
Create new shows with new stories and let us enjoy the good instead of following the bad.
I'm not a hater, or even angry. I'm just disappointed the shows and characters I love aren't getting their justice.
There was no reason and there is still no reason for him to be in the series. JNPR in any anime series is supposed to be written as rivals or competitors or the early on soft antagonists of the series and disappeared when the plot focused on the girls. not turn into the main focus
"Jaune is Mile's self insert"
*Holds head in hands
That bastard, he played us like a damn fiddle!
Yeah, I'm just waiting for Rooster Teeth to come out and say, "oh you thought this show is about RWBY, well guess what it isn't! (Wal laughing maniacally)
JRWBY
The minute Jaune wore that dress he became the main character.
Why is this accurate 😂😂
they got the dance number, which boggled my mind why wasn't that the main girls?
Based trans Josuke pfp
I thought Yellow boy was the main character and ruby was the deutagonist
I just love how the impostor protags are all male characters... can we just admit already Miles and Kerry can't write girls properly without somehow involving shipping? Pyrrha obssesses over Jaune, Nora over Ren, Ilia over Blake, White Rose teasing, MASSIVE Bumblebee teasing, etc.
Winter serves Ironwood, Glynda serves Ozpin, geez can't girls just have agency and *character*???
you conveniently left out Cinder, Sienna, Salem, and Raven, who all serve their own interests. In support of your argument, though, there is also Neo who exists solely as an accesory to Torchwick (even after his death).
@@LSDOvideos Wasn't Sienna the whitefang leader that Adam killed? If so there's really no reason bringing her up when she just had like a minute of screen time. The others you meantioned do count tho.
Though you have a point there, I noticed some years ago that the show only got me invested on the female characters. I rooted for no male character as deeply. They did a good job on a few, like Qrow, Jaune and Torchwick, maybe Ren. But many just seemed kind of bland to me. There wasn't anything interesting about them. Vol 4 started to improve on Ren and Sun, Vol 1 already fleshed out Jaune a bit. It has improved a lot by now but I think Oscar suffers from this the most. The key moment of him deciding to leave the farm was not shown and we know almost nothing of him except that he's kinda shy, though he didn't seem shy when Ozpin talked to him in Vol 4. Otherwise he just reacts like everyone would and has no specific traits at all.
I always thought that the girls had wayyy more character than the boys. I just rolled eyes every time team SSSN appeared because they were presented as cliché boys, trying to be cool and hook up with girls. Instead the girls: you knew their personality exactly. You could tell: Ruby the naive and nerdy do--good, Weiss the spoiled heiress with no social competence, Blake the introvert who wants to leave her past behind and Yang the partygirl. None of them were treaded like the dumb genderrole-sterotype (except maybe Yang).
It's true that the show has a major shipping-problem but I think if you are obsessed with it, every show has it. We know for example that Jaune had a crush on Weiss and Sun on Blake. I personally see WhiteRose only as a platonic relationship but I see your point. The thing is, Nora and Pyrrha have a personality aside from their feelings. Nora is the Hulk and Pyrrha the successful but modest one.
And having Ozpin as the headmaster of Beacon was inevitable, so Glynda had to be in a lower position or his colleague (I see them eye to eye). I don't mind Bumblebee as long as it makes sense but I fret a bit over Ilia. I like her and her concept, I think it's ok to have her be a lesbian but what bugs me is that we don't know anything about her personality aside from that. Only that she can be cruel and determined. That's sad I think. Funny enough it fits her chameleon-trait.
@@kevin13cabello You're right, as a character she doesn't mean much to the overall story. But the implications of her character can't be ignored: she's a poweful woman solely in charge of an organisation and was higher up in the chain of command than Adam of all people. In fact he saw her as such an obstacle he had to kill her with a surprise attack. Again she's not super relevant but the fact that she existed in the way she did means at least something.
EDIT
Also, offing her the way the writers did was an enormous mistake. First of all her character design was great (not unimportant in a visual medium) and having Adam split off in a splinter group at direct odds with her could actually give some depth to the white fang and their methods. If two groups of white fang had arisen (Sienna vs Adam) it would have been a literal representation of the good and bad sides of their philosophy and the way white fang members see themselves in the world- especially if Sienna's side ended up being smaller.
To the OP, I forgot to mention: saying that Nora obsesses over Ren is a bit unfair: it might seem that way because her personality is outspoken, but it's clear Ren cares about her just as much. In fact I'd say they're the only two characters (bar sun and blake and already established romantic partners) that actually seem like a healthy couple that works in a way that isn't forced.
Also to the OP: You forgot to mention cringelord Illia who only goes over to the good guys because of the power of one sided lesbianism.
Blake is best example- her entire character arc/s are built upon shipping/romance. Adam, Sun, Yang, Ilia... FOUR CHARACTERS with romantic interest in the same person!
RWBY is a harem anime with Jaune as the protagonist. :^)
Nope it's Blake. Adam, Yang, Sun, Ilia, Weiss, Ruby, Zwei, her fish
That would make the show actually decent but no, it's Blake's harem anime and it sucks
Lmao
Honestly that would actually be the better show. lmao.
A harem requires more than two love interests for a character at once. The harem master doesn't necessarily have to be interested in the harem mates, but the harem mates need to have an interest in the harem master. Blake has (or rather had) Sun, Ilia, and Adam. Plus, Yang might replace Adam in the near future. Meanwhile, Jaune only had Pyrrha. He might get Weiss, Ruby, and/or that random redhead chick he met in volume 6, but he's yet to graduate to the rank of harem master like Blake.
Now if you want to watch a REAL harem anime that doesn't sell itself as such, I recommend Star vs the Forces of Evil.
I wonder how many people would be upset if they went to see an Iron Man movie and got an Iron Patriot movie instead. That's basically what I see has happened with RWBY. The premise was situated around the four girls. They were the ones the trailers were about to gauge interest. They were the ones we saw first and came here for. No one said, "On this first episode of Ruby, I hope we see Jaune!" Jaune wasn't advertised. But he got an actual, multi-episodic character arc dedicated to him before ANY of Team RWBY. Did they need a bullying arc? Ok: Ruby is the youngest student at Beacon, Weiss is the known heiress to one of the richest companies, Blake is a hidden faunus, and Yang is seen as an airheaded bimbo. All of then could have been believable victims of bullying. Maybe not in the traditional "push you into a locker" bullying. But constant, emotional bullying is very real and harmful thing. :/ And that's a form of bullying that we don't really see portrayed, even though that's a common way for girls to be bullied. Hell, girls get bullied for having too big boobs or little boobs or for being too muscular or too physically strong.
You can still be a secondary character and be a complete badass and memorable (Hello, Garrus and Tali from the Mass Effect series video game series) without derailing the plot or undermining the main characters. Jaune wasnt that. The writers allowed him to co-opt an entire half of a inaugural season for no reason. What did we learn about the school life or about the world? Nothing that couldn't have been seen on--literally--any other show. Yay.
I guess I still haven't forgiven the writers for that.
"I guess I still haven't forgiven the writers for that."
It doesn't help that it feels like the writer's reaction to the initial dislike of the character is to keep wasting time trying to make him work.
this is why people say rwby can be fixed extremely easily and everyone knows it. but the writers are focused on making Jaune the main and the girls are basically there because they gotta be there. heck, in volume 3 alone the shift from the girls to Jaune was evident. I wonder what changed in the production? Oh, Monty died. I swear, the more i read about this the more i feel that monty's allergic reaction wasn't something that happened by accident.
Ren and Nora should have been just as affected as Jaune was for her depth, they knew phyrah just as well and probably tried to help her get Jaune in the first place plus phyrrah was the first female in Nora's life from what we have seen, for Ren I assume she is like a sister so you would assume everyone gets affected by her death but nope it's just Jonny boy
They were it's just that jaune was hitting harder because he feels responsible for pyrrha's death because he was there in her last moments before she shoved him into a locker. Ren and Nora had each other to confide in. Jaune had no one to confide in.
That would mean something if we got to see it zach.
this show used the: this is a feminist show and yet the girls are just used for screaming at the other girls and the adults and when Jaune speaks they make sure he talks in the perfect moments to not hurt his image.
You thought the main characters were RWBY, but it was ME! DIO!
Welp, V6 is over and they killed Qrow to bring Ruby to the forefront while completely failing to make her improve or say anything that doesn't sound insane. Ozpin was pretty much killed as well, but Oscar keeps being as relevant despise not really being useful for anything.
And Jaune...instead of giving us a scene fleshing out the conflict Blake and Yang setup in Brunswick Farn, they decided to focus on Jaune, and the Pyrrha relative surrogate in the scene isn't even given a name.
I can hear Miles saying "Yeah, we wanted to keep it in the air, maybe it's her mom, maybe it's her ghost". Which actually means "we didn't think of anything".
ProxyDoug - Previously Douglas Rosa wait did they actually kill off Qrow, or like they cut him out of the story by giving him a side quest?!
@@dubsquad156 Neither, he's just been made irrelevant post V4.
In V5, they just made him a punching bag, in V6 he became a drunkard laying on streets depressed and Ruby kept giving speeches about how much better kids are and how they'll find a way to beat Salem.
Then in V7, they paired him with a guy who has a similar semblance and when shippers started getting happy, the dude died because Qrow was acting like an idiot.
No one even acts like he's supposed to be this huge deal.
Huh okay
@@ProxyDoug Goddamn, well a Quick Death is “merciful” than character assassination in RWBY verse. I’m just glad Roman and pyrrah were dead, judging by the writing recently
Personally I’m happy that Jaune has so much development however they do also need to include more for the main cast
Same, I always thought he was the deuteragonist. I always thought he gave a different perceptive of the plot and was a foil to Ruby herself. He's kind of like Zuko in Avatar, not a side character but not exactly the main character either.
He's the Koichi of RWBY.
I like watching these types of videos. Even though RWBY is on of my favourite shows- I apply the criticism to my own writing. So thank you 😊
Thank you!
I think its more on because team rwby isnt making any relationships (does not need to be romantic for fk sake) with as much people than the other 2 of the supporting cast (not oscar) cause lets face it, without jaune team rwby and jnpr would be distant as hell, without jaune we wouldnt a glimpse on other characters, same goes for ozpin, while rwby mainly stick to their only 1 friend, via ruby and weiss, or yang and blake, maybe sometimes ruby and yang, the only one who succesfully does make a relationship with a different character from team rwby is blake, fkn blake of all people can make more relationships that have an influence on the story than the energetic ruby, social yang, or even the many connections because of my last name Weiss
that's the writing's fault. they are keeping all the characters distant so Jaune is the only one that can jump from one group to another without it looking forced
I always believed Ruby should have been the main character and Jaune should have been the deuteragonist. And I think this is the way the characters were presented since the very beginning, for him to be a foil to Ruby. That the reason he had so much screentime in season 1, they set him as he deuteragonist.
I mean, Jaune was introduced in the show _before_ both Weiss and Blake. He was also Ruby's first friend in the show and he was given a character arc in the beginning of the show for a reason. He is also the everyman with a very solid character arc and you can see where his character is going.
He's supposed to mirror Ruby in this way so I don't see problem with him having so much screentime. I'd even argue he's a more important character than Weiss, Blake, and Yang. Those characters are meant to support the main character RWBY. Like if I can make a comparison to Avatar, Ruby is Aang, the rest of Team RWBY is Team Avatar, and Jaune is Zuko. Team RWBY are all main characters but Jaune is meant to have a lot of character development aways froth main character to contrast with him.
That's just how I always saw it (at least in the first 4 volumes). We should not hate on Jaune because he's getting screentime, he should have screentime as a major character! He has an interesting character, interesting motivation, and an interesting relationship to the main character. It's good that he's such a well fleshed out character, the only problem is that other characters might not have enough screentime. But that's not Jaune's fault, it's the writer's fault for not writing other characters as good as Jaune.
IMO Jaune should’ve died instead of Pyrrha, since not only is Pyrrha a much more interesting and unique protagonist (Someone who’s famous but doesn’t want to be, compared to the farm boy that wants to become a hero), but she also provides a nice contrast to Cinder, Cinder is the one wants more power and to be known by everyone, Pyrrha is the one that already has that and found out that it’s not all it’s cracked up to be. And vengeance for Penny and Jaune’s deaths would be a great motivator for her. For God’s sake, if you going to have a spotlight robber, at least have an INTERESTING and UNIQUE spotlight robber.
What I go by when I watch shows is that there's a group of protagonists (RWBY, JNPR, Qrow and Oscar). Within that group of protagonists there's a smaller set of protagonists (RWBY). And Within that set of protagonists there's a main protagonist (Ruby). I normally just think of that when there's a lot of people in a show. I think they need to even out the time for characters to make clear who the main set or main protagonist is. Here, look at MHA. They give Izuku enough time on screen to make it clear that he is the main protagonist, but they also know when to have him take a step back and let the background characters have their time to shine/assist on moving the plot along all while making it very clear that Deku is still the main character. Now with RWBY, they say, "Ruby is the main character along with Weiss, Blake, and Yang" but look how much time all these other characters got to expand their character while team RWBY is just sitting in the background waiting for someone to tell them what to do next. What CRWBY needs to do is watch videos like these or at least think deeply about what they write in the show to make it more enjoyable and less confusing. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
That's really nice of you, thank you :)
Honestly, I can’t say if this has gotten better or worse after season 6. While characters like Yang, Blake, and even a little bit of Ruby got some development. Jaune still got an episode about him sad about Pyrrha (which seemed like it was some closure, so hopefully less of that), Qrow seemed to grow more than Weiss and Ruby, and Oscar seemed like he grew the most out of everyone there. And what stinks is that all lot of the time these problem protagonists will sometimes “de-progress” the other characters, even other problem protagonists. At the end of volume 6, they set Jaune up to be the strategist. That’s fine, he’s growing but it’s not like he’s taking the forefront. But Oscar comes in and essentially takes his character growth, becoming the new strategist. Thus regressing Jaune, which is a problem because that means they’ll have to spend even more time developing him. RT seems to have characters grow, and than regrow, which is an issue these problem protagonists have I don’t see many people discus.
Yeah, I always wondered why Jaune, Oscar, and Qrow were being treated more like the main protagonists. Team RWBY always felt like a side story to team JNPR.
Volume 6 really makes a difference in this, as circumstances force us to pay much more attention to RWBY for most of the season.
After the initial train sequence, Jaune, Ren, and Nora are absent for a big chunk as the team is separated. We don't get cut backs to see how they're doing, and instead it focuses on RWBY and various villains. When we do get Jaune again, it's for the inevitable "Fuck you Oscar" scene followed by a shift in his motivations. In the big fight at the end, he doesn't get much of any particular focus.
Qrow's gone through a very interesting shift, I feel. First a distant mentor figure, he joined the group and starts taking charge of the situation. He's an adult whom the team trusts, so that doesn't feel too out of line. V6 hits him with a Heroic BSOD in the wake of learning that Ospin has no plan, and thus becomes unable to carry the team anymore. His break down facilitates a large chunk of Ruby's growth this season as she gets more and more fed up with his drinking and poor attitude. With Qrow going off to sulk and drink, we get more scenes dedicated to the team. Weiss gets to freak about dead bodies and finds the basement with Ruby, while Yang and Blake explore and continue to fumble through working their issues out.
And lastly, there's Oscar. Once the truth is revealed about Ospin and the immortal voice shuts up for a long while, Oscar steps back from the spotlight for a bit. He chimes in every so often, reads a book, but does little of importance for that time. When they reach the town and he gets yelled at, he scares the party by vanishing for a while, prompting them to search for a few hours. He doesn't do anything noteworthy until the very end where Ospin stops sulking a second to help him crash land the airship before slipping out again.
In summary, Volume Six went out of its way to force these characters to stop hogging spotlight for a while so RWBY would be able to actually do shit.
Littlepup93 Honestly though Oscar’s character actually needed a little development. The characters have been reacting so mildly to what is essentially a dead kid wondering the living room and it’s getting to be very aggravating
Watching this during Season 8 and this still holds up 100%
Jaune magically fell with towards the darkness when Winter could have easily saved him for the sake of keeping him as the main.
@@bryana.escaleralopez he absolutely no reason to fall.
This is why I am more interested in Oscar than I am with any other character. The only reason I watch is to learn how Oscar can grow. But everyone else are like making disappointments.
I don't think they should have delegated 100% atention away from JNPR, but i do agree id have liked more RWBY focus or at least a more even ratio. It also woulda made more sense if Ruby spent half that time with Pyrrha instead of just Jaune, maybe have them talk a bit like Penny did, just so we can remember theyre friends even if they didnt talk on screen much previously, then let Jaune or Ruby and Jaune witness Pyrrha's death.
I feel like the writers should go back and rewatch volume 2, where the girls literally state their goals, then write it so they actually work towards it. Yang is a thrill seeker, wanting to go on adventures. Blake wants to right all the wrong in the world, but in a more peaceful way than the white fang. She even admits she doesn’t know how to do it. Why not have her learn and figure it out along the way? Weiss is upset with how her father runs the company, and she wants to make it better again. Yet ever since Whitley became the heir, we’ve heard literally nothing else about it. How is Weiss gonna claim it back? How will she change the company? She could be working towards that goal. And as for Ruby, I have no idea what she’s doing. She just wants to be a hero and save people, but that’s so vague that it has no where to go.
Don’t forget all Yang’s emotional baggage that led to her searching for Raven for years.
Why did she want to find her? What was her goal after she did? What answers was she hoping to get?
Apparently none of that mattered because all she wanted come volume 5 when she did find her was use her to get to Ruby.
I actually like to think of Ruby as someone who wants to be a Hero for one reason, only to have that viewpoint change overtime.
When Ozpin first approaches her, it's clear that she's extremely naive, with an extremely romanticised view of what being a Huntress is like, thinking it's this really cool job full of adventure and "coolness"
Cue the Vytal Festival, Penny's death, and the subsequent fall of Beacon. I have one complaint, *it should've been darker* people should've died (as in, more people than just Pyrrha) and Ruby especially should've seen people dying before her eyes. This would fulfill part 1 of 3, for the arc i have planned for her. And that, is for her to realize that no, being a Huntress isn't all Sunshine and Rainbows, running around killing things with a Sniper-Scythe, and looking cool. It's a job where you stare death in the face constantly, where you and your colleagues are constantly at risk of losing your lives, its a job where you're surrounded by despair and negativity, and all you can do is push through it, and learn to deal with it.
This makes her more serious, still with a little bit of the childlike desire from before Beacon fell, but it's significantly less pronounced. She's noticeably less eager, often taking the time to strategize before a fight, in order to have the best chances of winning and "not-dying". Something that could've been explored more in V4, especially with Tyrian, having them attempt to escape him later on in the fight, after realising that he was way out of their League, would've been a nice touch.
Now for part 2/3 of her arc, Maria.
After the encounter with the Apathy, and the subsequent realization of how to Activate her Silver Eyes, Ruby begins prioritizing saving lives, over killing grimm. Up until this point, a lot of her plans would basically boil down to "kill all the grimm" with bystanders safety being a bit of an afterthought for the most part, since she assumes that by killing attacking Grimm, she's 100% ensuring their safety already. Finding out that her eyes only Activate on a desire to save, rather than kill, her viewpoint shifts into one that prioritizes civilian lives, before focusing on the grimm. City under attack? Get the civilians out of harm's way first, *then* kill the grimm.
And now for her final act, part 3/3 of her arc, Atlas.
There's still one thing she has to learn, she has to learn how to choose between the Bad, and the Worse, and the Atlas vs. Mantle fiasco is perfect for this. Upon arrival in Mantle, she sees how everything sucks, and wants to help everyone. Cue Ironwood, everything proceeds as normal, up until the gang is called to Ironwood's Office, during the attack on Mantle. And this is where we change something *drastically.* So this will be a bit more detailed than everything else. (See my next reply)
Make. The heroes. Turn on each other. When Ironwood proposes his last resort plan to abandon Mantle and blast Atlas into the atmosphere, our gang *must* be split. Half of them want to go through with the plan, preferably the more calm and logic-based ones, like Ren, and Weiss, and maybe even Blake. The other Half, are opposed to the plan, preferably the more Emotional, and naive ones, like Nora, Yang, Jaune, and *ABSOLUTELY* Ruby. It'll go something like this:
Ironwood proposes his plan, and our heroes pick their sides, with Ruby opting to save Mantle.
Ironwood and the Ace Ops begin to walk out of the room to enact the plan, only for Ruby to petal burst straight to Ironwood, in an attempt to stop him
One of those opting to Abandon Mantle should attack her, in order to keep her from stopping Ironwood.
The Abandon Mantle team (which i will abbreviate as "AM") tells Ironwood and the Ace Ops, to proceed with the plan ASAP, leaving them to deal with our "Save Mantle" team (which i will now abbreviate as SM)
Our teams come to blows, with the SM team throwing the first punch. They're evenly matched, and the fight lasts long enough for Atlas to start blasting off.
The SM team all escape down to Mantle, while the AM team all stay in Atlas. Now our cast is split in two.
Our teams get some downtime to contemplate on the side they chose, with one member from each suggesting that maybe they chose wrong. (Preferably the most..."shaky" of each one, i'm thinking Blake or Weiss on "AM" and Yang or Jaune on "SM") only for the most adamant member of each time to reassure them that, yes, they did choose right (for "SM" this can't be Ruby, as she really needs to think about this)
Our SM team, along with the Happy Huntresses, work their asses off, keeping anyone left in Mantle safe. While the AM team fight Neo and lose the Lamp
Soon, the AM team finds out about the Staff of Creation, and what it can do, probably from Ironwood. They eventually convince him to let them use it to evacuate the rest of Mantle, into Atlas. Ironwood is still a very caring individual, and still cares about Mantle. He only made the decision he made out of necessity, he didn't want to make it, but he had to.
So our AM team makes two separate gateways. One connecting to the Mantle citizens, and one connecting to the SM team.
Back to our SM team, they and the Happy Huntresses have managed to gather all the remaining Civilians and put them all in one spot, so that they can protect them more easily. The grimm keep pouring in, for every dozen they take out, twice as many seem to come in. They're struggling, and out of breath, causing one of the Grimm to slip by without them knowing, and make a beeline straight for the people, only for one of the gateways to open up in front of it, causing it to land right in front of our AM team, clueing them in to the situation on the other side.
Our SM team is too preoccupied to notice the gateway, and are promptly backed up by our AM team, with a flashy barrage of attacks, surprising the SM team.
Our AM team fills in the SM team on the plan, and they bring the people through the gates to get them to Atlas, only for them to encounter Cinder and Neo, in the space-highway bridge place.
So as usual, or 7 heroes fight them, but they can barely hold their own, as they have too much to pay attention to. Not falling, keeping the civilians safe, staying alive, taking down Neo and Cinder. They need to deal with all of that, on top of the fact that they're teamwork is sloppy, considering they aren't exactly on the best of terms just yet.
They fall 1 by 1, with Ruby falling last. Keep in mind, she doesn't know that falling =/= death just yet. This gives her a chance to really reflect on her actions, her stupid decision to save Mantle despite it not being practical is what caused this whole situation in the first place. In her eyes, *she* caused the "deaths" of her entire team because she naively thought that she could get the best ending. Thus completing her arc, and really fleshing her out as a character.
I remember when monty said: we are going to focus on the characters on volume 2. but the writers wrote extremely poor reasons like: we don't care about you Rwby and it kept the door wide open for JNPR to become the part of the main cast because rwby's reasons did not make sense. Why is Weiss in a hunter academy and not in a business school if she wants to take over her family business. Why isn't blake in politics? and why isn't Yang just randomly riding her motorcycle through the world of remnant if that is her reason? but wait, ren's & nora back stories actually track for them becoming hunters? Ren losing his family to a Grimm and nora basically being an orphan and had no choice but to stick with ren for protection and Jaune being from a long line of hunters? WTF brooo. this is sabotaging your main cast on purpose.
Ush... this hurts... but I can't deny your point!
Are you a fan of red vs blue? Cause they have a wide cast of 11ish protagonists. I got into rt with rvb so I didnt mind team JNPR sharing the spotlight with team RWBY in the first volumes.
Another note: the way I see it, Yang grew from her chat with Raven. I dont see it as "this was meant to develop raven" rather than to develop both! I feel like the fact that Yang was crying was because she realised that her mum would rather put her daughter in danger than herself.
Nevertheless, aside from this realisation, the show hasn't yet given a chance to show how Yang's personality/character changed because of this whole mummy issue (and it probably won't until Raven comes back into the screen) so, again, I can't deny your point XDXD!
The thing is it wasn't Raven that was supposed to change her personality. Yang was someone who put others good before herself and Raven was the exact opposite. Yang already put herself in danger before for others (like Blake). Her experiences with Raven who abandoned her daughter for her own safety would just make her vow to be more protective of others even more and V6 stayed true to that
@@maiseree1511 I like your argument. But then, wouldn't you agree that it was Raven who made her vow to be more protective? Also, Yang learnt a lot about her mum in V5. She knew she was problematic but now, experiencing it on first person, at an age where she can understand what's going on, she KNOWS. She most likely gave up trying to make her a good mum.
Which brigs me to: Yang completed her own personal goal in V5. In V2 she admited that she was on a long search for her mum and in V5 it's over. Which means she has different goals now. Does that make sense?
Man, red vs blue did so god damned much with so god damned little
@@tatersalad76 True, but part of this was because the original RvB characters were written much simpler to start with, often having singular defining traits. Only later did they flesh them out.
A huge chunk of screen time was wasted on Illia who was basically just female Adam, they could've had Blake travel towards Haven together with Sun so all that extra screen time would've been spent on developing Ruby. Does anyone remember Ruby? You know, the cute sniper-scythe girl? Am I the only one bothered by the fact that she only had one piece of development back in volume 1? Taking to heart Ozpin's advice on leadership, that's literary her only growth until like volume 6. And no, sounding like she's on the verge of tears all throughout volume 5 doesn't count because she shrugged off her feelings and none of her so-called friends cared enough to ask her what's wrong.
the writers knew one thing: they didn't want to spend their days writing shojo. So they basically took Sokka from Avatar and said: this is what avatar would have been if they made Sokka the main character. but Ask yourself: would avatar be as successful if SOKKA was the only person getting character development ?
Jaune is not even really Sokka. Sokka a) is likeable, b) is convincingly written as an intelligent and competent strategist (it's not an informed attribute) and c) gets called out on his bullshit and grows from it (Kyoshi warriors).
After Volume 8, I just wish they would change the show’s name to “Ozcar”. I like him more then the main 4 anyways
Team JNPR is a subcast, it's they're job to help move the story along from behind the scenes while the main cast ( RWBY ) deals with the major events happening in front of them. Sorta like a cast and crew in a play.
No they don't they just do irrelevant side plots.
Yeah, I'd love some more development on best girl Yang. Possibly without being Blake-centric, but I kinda like how Bumblebee is being handled so far, so its not too big an issue. Just more character arcs in general pls
I wish Yang would talk to ruby more. They don't really feel like sisters anymore and that's kind of a bummer
@@twiinsiink
Bro, I couldn't agree with you more. We need more sister love so badly.
The show that is somewhat named after one of the girls (Ruby), the one who the first trailer of the series was about, the first of the girls we meet in the main series:
Is constantly outshined by other characters in the development and screen time department, and is only really important because of some (extremely poorly explained) plot device (the silver eyes).
its because the writers are keeping the main 4 as the cover models for the series meanwhile Jaune is the only one that gets to actually grow in the series. the writers think we haven't noticed that team rwby literally doesn't have a stake in the story anymore. yang & blake have each other. Blake is free of adam. Weiss is disowned so Withley gets the company so she REALLY needs to be dealing with that and Ruby literally has no reason to be there either. They obviously gave all of the development meant for Ruby to Jaune and just crossed their fingers nobody would notice
@@bryana.escaleralopez Yang and Blake only exist now as ship bait, Blake you could remove entirely and absolutely nothing would be lost. Also the whole situation with Adam: he absolutely no reason to be in Volume 6, the only reason he was was because Blake let him run away from Haven like a dumbass.
Aside from Atlas being gone Weiss has been of the belief that being a wandering mercenary will somehow improve her family name instead actually being involved with the company, Whitley is the only member of the family who should be able to run it.
Ruby has her plot device eyes which is the only reason she matters as a character.
They're pulling an ATLA. The best decision they made was telling us Zuko wasn't the main character
@@ChangedMyNameFinally69 No, it was a very nice mechanic for telling a good story, I doubt the series would have done as well from Zuko's perspective. But also a protagonist is only as good as the antagonist. Both Zuko and Azula were very well done and even Ozai got some nice development.
If anything avatar was duel protagonist story.
I always thought of Jaune as the Zuko of RWBY. He's not the main character and he doesn't run with the main crew, but he does have significant development and offers a different perspective to the narrative. Jaune is to Zuko as Ruby is to Aang.
He plays more the sole role obi wan.
Good observations. I don't think any of this is particularly a bad thing though. If anything I enjoy what they've built up so far with Jaune it's just that they need to do the same for Team RWBY. All of the main cast should feel like protagonists in their own right.
Hey Arnold
It’s good that you liked it but giving Jaune so much screen time was by all accounts a mistake and is the main reason why he’s one of the most unpopular characters in the fandom. Not all side characters are meant to be protagonists, I mean they practically dropped like 80% of the characters in volumes 1-3 anyways, and it shows what the writers want to focus on. There was just a lot of wasted time on jaune that could’ve went to RWBY or even ren and nora who mysteriously got left out in v1-3 and really haven’t been doing much since that one episode in v4.
@@catch3588 Giving Jaune screentime wasn't a mistake. The mistake was not giving the same amount to Team RWBY first. Jaune isn't a side character either. He's a protagonist. Always has been. I don't care if most people hate him since most of the reasoning behind it is just plain stupid.
@@heyarnold7256 Being an writer means knowing what to focus and want to leave for later, Ruby is the MC of RWBY not Jaune and thus all of his scenes should of been given to her, the show has a very limited amount of time so they should use wisely. Jaune arc is also really cliché and boring, yes he does get character development but character development doesn't automatically make an character good. If they really wanted to the could of fleshed out Jaune later on.
@@brandonontama2415 The limited screentime is also a problem that hinders the story. They should really do something about that. However Jaune at the time was the only character going through an internal conflict. Ruby at the time had no such problems so it made sense to settle and set up some of his issues early on.
@@brandonontama2415 Jaune is cliche? And Ruby isn't? Are you trying to argue that Ruby isn't cliche? Wow. Lol. Everything you just said would apply to her as well. Theres no guarantee that giving Ruby focus early on would have made her more interesting. Sure Ruby needs more development but taking away whats been built up with Jaune wouldn't do either character any favors.
This video is great. You make a lot of good points. I would like to add that the title character(s) of a story does not necessarily have to be the main character (s). In the case of RWBY I think they should be the main characters (especially since they were introduced as such). But in the famous novel The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr Hyde Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde are the title characters but they are not the main characters. The main character is Mr. Utterson, Dr. Jekyll's lawyer who investigates the strange happenings going on around the mysterious Mr. Hyde.
Honestly I feel during the end of volume 3, instead of having the girls split up, RT could've made it where team RWBY went on the journey to stop cinder together.
Everyone could've gotten a better arc during volume 4.
Ruby could've questioned her silver eyes when Qrow told her about the silver eyed warriors and use that knowledge to want to train and use them effectively, possibly even finding out that it takes her thinking of a single concrete goal to activate them willingly.
Weiss, who still wants to make the SDC better, could use this journey to better relations between the schnee's and faunus. She could still learn to summon and would still use them, but only a bind/as a distraction for enemies like Tyrian.
Also she'd have summoning be a sub ability as she countinues to perfect her fencing skills.
Also a little side note, someone on one of your videos mentioned that ruby should loose crescent rose and take up one of penny's swords.
This would be a perfect chance for her to train with weiss and black and forget hand to hand because it's clear she has great upper body strength from carrying her weapon daily and using it effectively in battle.
Now onto Blake. Blake could still run, but maybe rather than going home, she's trailing Weiss and Ruby and keeping them safe from Grimm and maybe hostile faunus who heard of Weiss's traveling without her father.
This could introduce conflict with the white fang and maybe Adam, who isn't a bitter ex anymore, but rather a leader who dislikes traitors. So he still plans to make Blake's life miserable, but not by attacking her directly, but rather her friends, who wouldn't expect an ambush of any kind. Blake could help fight off the faunus who are both a mixture of white fang members and possibly a group like Raven's. She reintegrate herself into the team, but she thinks everything is strained between them because of her abandoning Yang.
That's not the case as Ruby and Weiss are simply realing from the fact this journey to find cinder won't be easy as people like Adam are trying to kill them and Grimm maybe more rampant.
They would explain this to Blake, who by this point has akwardly started conversations only to be either shut down by weak responses from her friends or interrupted by constant danger.
But after she takes all that in and removes her bow (which is a sign of her changing and vowing that she won't run and hide anymore) she's happy to be back with her family.
Finally there's yang who's the last to join the group as she's dealing with the loss of her arm and PTSD thanks to Adam.
She gets her new arm and rejects it at first, but after realizing that using it can help her move on, she wears it the next day like she did in I think episode 8 of volume 4. I can't remember.
She still tracks ruby, and runs into the bandit tribe, but when she meets raven, she snubs her, not caring that her first arc of finding her mother is complete as she has more important things to worry about.
Raven, who's obviously upset by this, uses her semblance to send yang to ruby Qrow who I like to think is following the group in his bird form. He's just acting as a pair of extra eyes and will possibly earn the four about tyrian once they come together in that village team ranger fought them in.
Yang questions why Raven would send her to a bird and maybe jokes that is probably Qrow, even going so far as to notice that the bird has pink eyes like him.
She can't investigate for long however as the Qrow flies off and something tells her to follow it (as its flying in a straight line towards the village rather than upwards and away from her. I think Qrow may have even hopped onto her shoulder before flying off)
Now there's the fight, with tyrian saying that yang interest her, maybe even saying that she has the same eyes as raven, bu doesn't mention her by name. I don't know what he'd say honestly.
Everyone's on their toes with tyrian, with weiss using her glyphs and dust to stay at a distance, Blake is using her shadows to dance around tyrian and deal some damage to him with Ruby's help as she's blocking his stinger thanks her speed.
And yang is just hesitating as thoughts of Adam come and go out of her mind as Tyrian in a way reminds her of him.
It's not until Ruby's aura is broken (and taking a note from Unicorn of War here by mentioning that when a person's aura is broken their semblances can't be used any longer) so when Tyrian is about to sting her, yang rushes forward, grabs it with her metal arm and holds in place.
Weiss binds Tyrian with a black glyph and Blake cuts it off.
Tyrian still runs off to Salem and Qrow will appear to congratulate the girls on fending Tyrian off, but he warns them that he's not the only one who'll come after them.
Qrow travels with the group, explaining who Salem is and what her goal is, calling her the queen of Grimm and saying she wants the relics. He'll also tell the group that Cinder, Emerald and Mercury are but three of her pawns who'll help in any way to get them first.
I feel like knowledge of the gods is common, so Jin's flashback has a little more weight to it when it's revealed that Ozpin and Salem have history and that remnant in the beginning was merely an experiment before the gods abandoned it.
Now as for Jaune, Ren, Nora and Oscar I'm not sure about them just yet.
Because you literally just took all they have to feed the RWBY train.
They can easily have their own issues that don't take from team RNJR's own problems.
@@rashan141 Uhm I'm sorry? This was just my take on things. I wasn't saying this is a better version (because there are others who could do way better than me), but I just felt volume 3-4 should've included Team RWBY altogether rather than separately. Jaune, Ren and Nora would have arcs too, but I couldn't figure out a way to include them with RWBY.
I still feel like it makes perfect sense for Qrow to fight Tyrian. He sees the girls in danger and being attacked by someone who works for Salem. He knows they will have a hard time winning because its 4 teenagers up against someone with years more experience than them. He joins the battle and is wary of his own semblance so he tells them to distance themselves so he doesn't hurt the people he is trying to protect. The reason why he gets hurt isn't that he is not a competent fighter but because he's saving someone who he cares for. This means one of Qrow's weakness is teammates which explains why he distances himself from everyone. It's a good exposition for his semblance.
With your example, it doesn't make sense why he would just oversee his niece and her sister fight a battle with Tyrian since he knows of Salem's power and would be unmatched. It shows that there are battles that they can't win with just good teamwork and some training. But the main point is that if RWBY were able to defeat Tyrian without the help of Qrow, it makes him and other Salem's fighters seem less strong. Tyrian could still hold his ground when going up against an elite huntsman which shows that he is a force to be reckoned with. If Qrow does fight alongside the others, he will definitely tell them to stay away and have the solo fight with Tyrian etc etc.
They wanted Jaune to start his revenge arc after volume 3 and move him to the leader. THat's why they cut off Yang's arm to Rock Lee her for an entire volume, Weiss literally could have left at any time in that volume. her being stuck at her home made no sense and don't get me started on how they purposely created menagerie like they did to downplay all of Blake's racism plot. Volume 4 was the fall of rwby and the rise of Jaune as the main
of course Jaune has a lot of Arcs, do you know how many Arcs are in his family? His Mom, Dad, his 8(?) sisters
The problem is I feel like I like Jaunes stuff was pretty fun on its own and it would be a good spinoff series set in the world or Remnant. If there was a show about the underdog self improving while all this other stuff goes on around him, I feel like that would've been a better way to have handled his story.
Maybe it's just that I saw the first Volume all in one sitting and dropped out early in Volume 3, but I've always thought of Ruby as the protagonist, Jaune as the deuteragonist, and WBY & NPR as the first ranks of secondary characters. I thought Ruby was short on development, but that seemed to be because RWBY's writers had a poor understanding of character development in general (Weiss's two single-conversation "arcs" in Volume 1 being the obvious example). Looking at how certain trends continued, though, it's clear that other problems are going on there, too...
"Jaune as the deuteragonist"
The problem is that jaune doesn't really do much to earn that title except get lots of screen time, nothing he does is really that relevant. Its like Chun-Li in the 90s Street Fighter live action movie going on about her dead father while the main villain and hero don't give two shits about it.
@@Hartzilla2007 Jaune's problem isn't so much that he doesn't do anything as it is that RWBY and JNPR's stories barely interact. That wasn't weird in Volume 1, both because the problem wasn't as pronounced then (Ruby and Jaune sometimes gave each other a bit of emotional support) and because nobody's stories really overlapped with any of the other stories. I assumed that the separate storylines would eventually converge through most of Volume 2. That just...never happened.
@@timothymclean "Jaune's problem isn't so much that he doesn't do anything as it is that RWBY and JNPR's stories barely interact."
No he really just doesn't do anything. I mean nobody but him really cares about Pyrrha dying, and it's not helped that his involvement in the main plot was Ozpin just handing important character status to Pyrrha out of the blue based entirely on OFFSCREEN interactions that were never even hinted at until it was time to drag her into the main plot.
Hell even the assumptions that Jaune's screen time will be important are based more on people realising that if he doesn't get a major pay off they wasted time on him so his fans desperately cling to a payoff that may never come.
@@Hartzilla2007 First, keep in mind that I'm discussing Volumes 1 and 2, the only ones I've completed. I've tried to make that clear, but I might as well restate it.
In each of those volumes, Jaune has his own storyline. Everything around the dance was kinda weak (especially considering how high the stakes had already become in Ruby's story), and the bully plot was kinda cliché, but both had him do things and grow slightly as a character.
@@timothymclean I entirely agree with your perspective and do think Ruby and Jaune's arcs overlapped. The started out overlapping on Ruby's first day of school when they both kind of awkwardly bonded over not fitting in. Then after the become leaders they overlapped as they empathized with each other over leading.
And then I thought their arcs had entirely converged at the end of season 3 when Ruby and Jaune teamed up to take down Cinder. The fact that Ruby left her team to go with Jaune told me that the rest of Team RWBY was not as important as Ruby herself and we were about to get an epic arc focusing on the interactions between the Protagonist and the Deuteragonist.
At least, that's what I thought would happen but RT kind of dropped the ball on season 4 and they've never picked it up. You are correct in your characters of Ruby and Jaune, I have always thought they were the most important characters and they work best when their arc mirror each other. They are both leaders but with different struggles. Ruby is a good fighter who needs to learn to be a better leader and Jaune's a bad fighter who has a lot of potential to be a great leader.
They work best when they bounce off of each other and in many ways, only Jaune and Ruby really understand what the other is goes through. They are both two parallel spears of the same story (at least that's how they should ideally be written). Like when the final battle occurs I don't expect it to be Team RWBY against the big bad, I expect it to be Ruby and Jaune leading the charge.
I saw someone say that maybe Oscar was meant to be the same person as jaune, which I kinda see especially in how their relationship to ruby works. Because look at all the little interactions especially in volume 7 that Oscar and ruby have are very similar to ones ruby and jaune have in volume 1-3, this I think would have been a really good choice to make, we would have gotten possibly an interesting character arc about coming to terms with his hatred for ozpin while ozpin is in his head, maybe this could have been an ozpin arc about the self hatred he feels for some of the things he has done and mistakes he has made.
I do think qrow should get to make discoveries and do things he is an adult they are kids maybe they will save the world but he is way more competent than him. The way rwby has so many main characters is actually something I really like because I like that the main character are not doing everything, but I think the biggest problem is screen time.
I mean I think it was obvious that cinder was just reveling in screwing with jaune like she was just having fun and then as what often happens when you do that something surprised her and she almost slipped up and got dead
I also think ruby should have an arc where she just snaps, maybe another main character dies and she just loses it, the way she talks to Oscar about losing her friends made it seem to me that she was repressing and closeting off her emotions of grief to be there for her team and I think this is something they really should play into because it’s interesting especially with how it plays back to her talk to jaune about being a leader, she thinks she doesn’t get to be weak or a failure or in pain, she thinks she doesn’t have time to grieve because she needs to be there for her team and so she represses and represses these feelings and at some point they all come out. This one arc or event I think could turn ruby from boring and uninteresting to an amazing character, because they seeds are all there, you can see these little moments if you look closely where she seems sad and then just ignores it and moves on because others are around.
I wholeheartedly believe Jaune wouldn't get the kind of focus that he does if Miles didn't voice him. He'd likely be just as secondary as Ren and Nora. Tbh I feel like Pyrrha should have been the member of JNPR that got the most focus in the first 3 volumes, given her later importance to the main plot. It'd make that shift seem less sudden anyway and wouldn't tie up her characterization with Jaune. Further, that would maybe allow them to establish an *actual* friendship with her and Ruby, which would make Ruby's reaction to her death that much more impactful.
Jaune honestly has to be my least favorite of the main cast. The heroes, anyway. His existence just takes away opportunities for character growth from just about everyone.
RWBY doesn't actually stand for Ruby, Weiss, Blake, and Yang, it stands for "Raging Whiney Blonde Youth"
But seriously though, Volume 7 did so much better with Jaune. Put him in the back seat where he belongs. Here's hoping Volume 8 keeps that going. He doesn't need more "growth", he's done, he's had enough. I know I've certainly had enough 🙄
Yeah her reaction to Pyrrha dying in the series feels a little unbelievable to me, I would hardly consider them acquaintances let alone actual friends, mainly based off their lack of interaction but also due to the fact Pyrrha didn’t/barely interacted with anyone that wasn’t Jaune.
the writers knew one thing: they didn't want to spend their days writing shojo. So they basically took Sokka from Avatar and said: this is what avatar would have been if they made Sokka the main character. Ask yourself: would avatar be as successful if it was SOKKA the person we be following and not the Last airbender on the planet? Yep
"Jaune has had multiple Arcs"
*[Rimshot]*
I feel like the one of the most important thing rwby did was the shadow thing/them finding out about the white fang
Oscar's practically the main character now.
So true
I think Penny also becomes an Imposter protagonist.
Idgaf what anyone says
Jaune is Miles' self insert
He's the main character and has always been more than any rwby member
Weiss is the only good character in the main cast
V6 has made a good start in fixing Ruby's.character. Her V6 story arc is Weiss levels of writing
I like the main cast personally. I like Yang quite a lot even if the show seems adamant on shoving her out of focus whenever possible.
I know people harp on Blake but I was never that bothered by her.
Weiss will likely be ruined by the end of the Atlas arc anyway when they inevitably end her character arc so she is just along for the ride going into the Vacuo arc. I like her too, but after seeing what they did with Blake and Yang, I am not holding out much hope.
@@jjilatt123 It would definitely help if Yang's arcs actually amounted to something. Her pursuit of Raven ends up being rushed and hollow and the same goes with her Adam PTSD.
@@maiseree1511 what by giving her some generic speeches?
An interesting point that you didn't mention is that because Vol 3 focused so heavily on Jaune and Pyrrha, they kind of wasted a lot of really well done exposition that they then had to repeat really sloppily to our main cast in Vol 4 & 5. I almost wonder if it would have been better to skip those really dramatic exposition scenes entirely and have the reason Pyrrha was involved in all this just left a mystery because then it puts us, the audience, on the same page as Jaune and Ruby, the supposed protagonists. Then we're left to wonder what the hell happened just like the characters, and we could have had a really well done exposition scene that centered around Team RWBY, and not just a secondary character who died. IDK, maybe I'm just projecting my hope that that the mystery would stretch out longer; we got no lore in Vol 1 & 2, then we got some really cool stuff in Vol 3, but then in Vol 4, 5, and 6 we've continued to get these huge updates to the lore that basically explain everything and I'm just like...there was a really mysterious air around the earlier seasons of RWBY despite the lighthearted atmosphere, and as we've basically learned the entire plot it feels like that has gone away.
That did result in bad exposition, didn't it.
Personally, I wish they had made RWBY some how incorporated into the maiden plot (beyond Ruby's eyes going off) so then it wasn't just the "Pyrrha show".
@@twiinsiink You want to know something when Ozpin was talking about his choice for the new Fall Maiden being a student he has seen great potential in since he met her I honestly thought he was talking about Ruby until Pyrrha showed up becuase she's literally been the student he interacted with the most and an actual showed an interest in.
Qrow was literally so good til they decided to make him a main character of the cast. I liked the idea that he was following around the kids, making sure they were safe, but stayed out of the way, he knows that they are strong and that this is somethign they are meant to do and work towards so he stays mostly out of it. Im okay with him coming in ont he Tyrian fight, but soemhow it seemed super off. I like that he showed up the second that the team started to lose, after that he should have fought along w i t h them and when he didn't it was at that pint that the entire character got messed up from there. He should have shown up to save the team and then guide them haven, then he lets the kids be more in charge again while he worries about other things. He shouldn't be at the front of the group, I think he would stay with them and be at the end of the volume 5 fight for sure, and then during the next volume hes supposed to be just tagging along, being the adult figure to help out but staying on the side and out of the way. Once they reach atlas he should almost leave the main plot entirely. He should be working wiht iron wood and other characters like that and doing other important things that he can do while the kids focus on the main plot, he wasn't supposed to take over so much. I think had they just kept him a little more to the side he would still be an amazing character
The moment I sensed doom for the protagonist problem is when I was watching the show for the first time I immediately liked team JNPR more than the main four girls...
They were more down to earth, had more investment in the main setting of the school (main four always had to find a plot away from it), had more room to grow in battle and team training, more interesting background and mysterious backstories, semblances that didn't have to constantly revolve around battle and act as a "win" button. I dunno, I just ... didn’t like the main four *at all*. This isn’t a hindsight realization at all either, I fully thought so when I was watching it for the first time. I liked watching JNPR more in the fight scenes too. I wasn't aware the color trailers even existed for the longest time and kept wondering why I was meant to be interesting in these characters, or waiting for Weiss's scar to be alluded to in some kind of pivotal moment to lead into a "oh snap" backstory. My disappointment when I watched the trailer and the answers was, "oh yeah, she just got hit, like, really hard in an irrelevant day-to-day battle like any other fight we'll have". Ah, man. Oh well. Great. Alrighty then 😅
This video and the op of chainsaw man make me realize that team JNPR is shocking sambar to the main characters of chainsaw man.
I gotta say this is a damn good video, you deserve more subs tbh
This is probably the biggest issue with having too many characters being focused on - time that could be used to develop the main four is quickly burned away for the sake of everyone else.
Well this whole situation reminds me about Final Fantasy X and XII, where we play as some blond dudes who are "main" protagonists... but after some time you notices that they are just some very strong NPCs from which point of view we see whole story and in reality main characters are some other people.
And situation with Ruby as main character and Jaune as side character is something like if in Final Fantasy VIII main character was Selfie and Squall and Rinoa were side characters and their whole love story and development was going on somewhere else, not where Selfie and her own gang is...
Also if it was normal show with Jaune as main character who grows as a person and finds new friends and get stronger then RWBY team would be those friendly allied team with elite NPCs who saves main team's asses in some bad situations...
And I think the core problem is that the main characters always were men, not women and somewhere deep in our unconciousness we just can't accept women as main hero. Because what kind of development in reality those girls could have? How could they grow as a characters? And what personal drama and story could be interesting? In reality people unconciously can accept them as, you know, "princesses", who wait their own personal prince with whom they will, khem, make babies... Not as Heroes who will save the world.
And i think author unconcioussly got that problem, that's why he invented Jaune in the story with four girls main team, because he knew that people would be like "yeah, those girls are great fighters and they are cool, and they have some teenager girly dramas, yeah, yeah... so, where is the main hero, dude?"
P.S.: Sorry for my Engrish)
People have accepted female protagonist in the past.
@@fightingmedialounge519 Yeah but only if they are attached to a male mc who takes a big chunk of the story and she is just there for the action sequences. if the story isn't about the girl finding love, people are going to be like: okay so where's the male main character who will get the coolest girl in school to fall in love with them?
@@bryana.escaleralopez no, just straight up female lead media.
@@bryana.escaleralopez You must have a very narrow experience with fictional media.
Can't we all agree there 2nd banana after team Rwby ? After all vol 6 did remedy and gave team Rwby more screen time
Imagine how cool it would have been if in the cinder fight Cinder HAD killed Raven.
And then the maiden power went to Yang. Now that would have been well done character development, showing Yang was the last one in Raven’s mind when she dies, insinuating that despite her cold exterior, she cares for her daughter. It also could have been really fascinating for Yang, the most physical and melee based of the girl, to have new nature powers she couldn’t really control. Maybe it could show her trying and failing to learn to use them, getting frustrated over it similar to the loss of her arm, only this time she isn’t as alone. I feel like it could have been so cute to have had , in the next volume, Weiss, who just had to learn to use powers of her own, supporting yang through that. Or Blake being there in battle to support Yang or help her control her new powers. I feel like there was so much potential for that, and it would have been a good reason to give the four main girls more screen time, but instead we had a Angsty barn scene with the Yang and Blake that had no resolution but was apparently forgotten? And maybe one moment of interaction between Blake and Weiss. I just want the girls to have most of the focus because so much of their dynamic should have been shifted due to their personalities changing, but nope. instead we got Qrow drinking.
Hopefully, we'll get that Team RWBY season with Volume 9 but of course Jaune went into the pit too, sooo...
I will admit that would be cool. It also would have set up a rivalry between Cinder and Yang. Both are maidens, both lost an arm, cinder lost her arm to yang's sister, yang lost her mother to cinder. They already droped cinder vs ruby rivalry, might as well set up a new one
Honestly I had mixed feelings over Jaune, but I eventually started to like him... until I discovered he was a self insert of one of the writers. Oh boy...
I mean not really
@@ebicbarton he is voiced by the head writer. this is why the show is dragging. everything has to be dumb down and slowed down so Jaune can be relevant in the plot. he is landing hits on a maiden because of plot and saving weiss so he gets his moments to shine. seriously. who believed that weiss was going to die in that moment?
You know if the show aren't going to make RWBY team the protagonist they shouldn't have named the show RWBY in the first place. Idk name the show "hunters of remnant" or something
Or hell simply “Remnant”.
I get why Oscar is like a main character Salem is After him so no matter what even if tin,jance ,Nora an others be side team rwby Oscar will be a lot more in the main cast Oscar isn't an imposter but is a mc caz he has to fight Salem along side ruby and team rwby no matter what
I just noticed, do they ever bring up Jaune's semblance in volume 6. They seem to just ignore and forget about it in favor of developing the silver eyes.
It plays a role in the first episode and the last one. The real bummer is how boring they are about it. They only use it to give Ren's Semblance a boost. I think it would be really fun if Jaune super powered the others to create crazy fight scenarios (Ruby moves so fast she's impossible to track, Blake can use multiple copies at the same time, etc).
@@twiinsiink Yeah but turning people dull requires less time to animate
Preach!
I'd be okay with having Oscar, Jaune, and Qrow be the main protagonists.
After volume 7, I would really want Oscar to take the reigns. Team RWBY were awful during Volume 7.
I'd be okay if the whole rwby team would die or whatever. It would free up the cast. I'd start with blake and maybe ruby, they don't exactly have personalities all the much. Or maybe it should be the other way around to give them personalities.
@@enderben2805 Qrow, Oscar, Ozpin, and Ironwood are so much more interesting than the main cast. It's sad that they're just supporting characters
@@wuttatota148 Yeah exactly.
I better note something like that when writting my stories.
I think Oscar proved to be the real main character in volume 8.
Coming back here after Hbomberguy's video, I truly believe Jaune is the creator's OC
Not to mention the amount of fanfics featuring Jaune as the main protagonist
Which just say all sorts of things about his fans what with the female characters pretty much existing to pijne for Jaune, or them tossing out the actual Jaune for an overpowered OC with his name, or how the fucking universe just revolves around his ass.
because that's all that is left to this story. they made him the main focus. of course, the only people invested enough to write fan fic would be a bout Jaune. he is the 'insert me' protagonist. no op powers, gets to hang out with 5 girls because of plot but only 0 are available to him in the actual story so those fans go on to write fan fic where they are Jaune and how they want Jaune to deal with things
I've been mad about Jaune for years. He should have died in Volume 3 trying to face Cinder. Instead, he's still here, and fell into Neverland/Wonderland with the main team. Honestly the part that felt the pettiest to me was when they gave Jaune a haircut to match Miles.
I like that qrow was pushed in though, I simp hard for him
If you had to form teams using the characters from team RWBY and JNPR, what combinations would you make to have an interesting story? One has to be the protagonist team and another the secondary one.
Greetings from Argentina.!!!!
i only casually watch the show and uh i honestly kinda thought jaune WAS a main character 😳👉👈
Wow I totally forgot the interaction between Jaune and Tyrian back in V4. Now that V7 has concluded, do we know why Tyrian thought Jaune was "Interesting"?
Still no. Maybe volume 8 will tell us?
@@twiinsiink Mmm maybe, think the theory for the longest time had to do with Jaune being a descendant of the King of Vale yeah?
If this isn't a thread that leads nowhere or been forgotten about; Perhaps Salem might shed light on it should the two actually meet.
Can we all take a moment to reflect on the fact that Jaune is melted down and augmented the armor of his dead love team mate with his armor? Does no one else find this mildly disturbing?
Don't see what's disturbing about that? It's like when Aragorn takes Boromir's gauntlets at the end of Fellowship of The Ring.
They're keeping a ""piece" of their friend with them on the journey, and by making that "piece" be armor, it's like the dead companion is protecting them even in death (as Pyrrha tended to do for Jaune, and as Boromir would have done for Aragorn once he took the throne).
Because typically you don't carry around dead people's personal possession.
it was disturbing and out of pocket. like literally you have no idea who gave those things to Pyrrha and he melts them down and we are just supposed to keep thinking is okay? I'm expecting jaune to get a maiden power as well. his plot armor is incredible
A question comes to mind...could it have been possible to have Team RWBY and Team JNPR as main characters but have more focus on the former? Could this have worked?
Absolutely. Keeping the minor characters in a minor role works perfectly. You'll notice that Ren and Nora aren't considered "imposter protagonists" in my video, because even though they're also involved in the main plot of the show they aren't given many important things to do (unless they're specifically given an arc).
@@twiinsiink Ok, so that's good, it also makes me think that maybe those episodes that focused more on a character could've worked better if they focused on more than one character rather than...well, what we got? Like for example, in volume 1 there could've been an episode focused on JNPR as a team while team RWBY is the main focus in another episode showing a contrast in how both teams are growing, be it in fights or how they get along. I could be wrong, I'm by no means an expert in storytelling. Thanks for replying!
From what I understand, team JNPR and RWBY were the 8 protagonists of the show in the beginning, with team RWBY having more emphasis in the starting of the show. Then Jaundice happened, and the super negative backlash made almost all of the attention fall back to RWBY after the JNPR (see Jaune) arc.
I know this is a old video by this point and my comment wont matter, but honestly I like these characters more than team RWBY except for Ruby herself I do really like her. So the writers focusing on Jaune, Qrow, and Oscar doesn't feel like a problem to me, I just never was too interested in the rest of the cast, which is probably a bad thing if I really think about it.
Yet another symptom of the fiction-wide problem of writers being reluctant to take risks with female characters, because "we don't want teh whamens to get hurt or upset. Whamens always gotta be unchallenged" and end up having to outsource all the character development to male characters. Doctor Who had the same problem. This is like every single work that aims for diversity ever. It's unintentionally hilarious. They wanna get rid of the symptom of boring female characters, but refuse to cut the illness at its source, that being people's general attitude of not wanting to see women in any serious pain, or be proven wrong.
Yeah this is basically what I was saying before. They give all the problems to the male characters because they don't want to offend women. So it ends up feeling like the male characters are the only ones with room to grow whereas Team RWBY stays stagnant because RT tries to keep them as "perfect". Ironically it is imperfections that make great characters so the main Team will always suffer from this.
@@heyarnold7256 BuT wE nEeD bEtTeR fEmAlE rOlE mOdElS. tHat'S wHy ThEy CaN't HaVe FlAwS.
Hilariously enough the people who say that end up whining about how women are expected to be perfect all the time lol. Oh boy. We truly live in a society, don't we?
I always felt they were more worried about their own perception rather then what women would think of them.
Akame Ga Kill basically. I went into that series thinking Akame was the main just to be giving generic teen gets sucked into a world of evil hunters he literally did not need to enter. he avenged his friends in the first episode. WHY are you following them? to avenge the friends you lost? you just killed the woman who killed them. the writer are making an excuse on the fly to make him the main protagonist. his revenge arc was resolved on the first episode which is basically the generic trope that is keeping Jaune as the main
I noticed this while watching the newer seasons and its honestly why I stopped watching for so long. I care about the main 4 girls, not the background characters.
Qrow is an interesting character and honestly I'm fine with him being added, but Ren and Nora being thrown in the group feels... weird and random. I get its literally just so you can see them in later seasons but I can't help but feel they make it feel crowded now.
and yeah Jaune has WAY too much screen time. its called RWBY not... Jaune..
CinDEr iS a vILLaIN ProTAGoniSt dUh
Actual thing I heard someone seriously say
It sounds dumb, but in a way they're not wholly incorrect. With the amount of time that is dedicated to watching Cinder's plot every volume, she certainly has what COULD be what it would take to make her a second protagonist (like Zuko from Avatar: The Last Airbender). Hell, I fully believe her screentime more than doubles Ruby's- our actual (or so they say) protagonist. The issue is really that Cinder is never allowed to develop. The thing that categorizes a character as "protagonist" is the fact that they are the one who must grow the most throughout a story. Cinder has been given plenty of opportunities to grow (far more than any of our RWBY girls), and yet just refuses to veer away from the same "sexy evil bullshit" that she's always done.
In short, she could be a protagonist, if the writers actually knew what they were doing.
Would Jaune still be considered a self-insert if team rwby wasn't there? Or if he was actually a main character? So him getting screen time or development wouldn't be stolen from other characters
With how many volumes it's been as of now I want ruby to get an arc. Like just spend all of volume 9 with ruby dealing with penny's death and deciding what to do with Neo. Hopefully killing her. Ruby could very well be an interesting character, we've all seen shows where the heroic character who's happy go lucky sees that the world is dark and that not everyone can be saved. Rather than trying to save everyone she should think whether everyone is worth saving and better herself to actually save the people she cares about. But this is all dependent on the writers which socks, cause I want to watch rwby for ruby
trust me, Jaune is going to be there so expect Jaune to have the biggest and best development in that volume meanwhile they probably will give Ruby some vague doctor who explanation like: your eyes can freeze Grimm but they are so much more and its up to you to learn to unlock all of your abilities. this is all set up for the 4 to have all the maiden powers and we will probably see Jaune commanding them(like they were his pokemon) and telling them to destroy Salem with those powers to seem like the true hero.
I like Jaune.
I don't care for Oscar and him becoming the main character.
I'm the opposite.
Lightdragoon88 It's a marketing problem. If they really wanted Oscar and Jaune to be the protagonist, they should have done that in the first place in the trailers. They could give a Jaune and Oscar trailer and just ditch the red, yellow, white and black trailer.
the girls finished their character arcs already. Ruby is more responsible and a leader, Yang is over with her party girl personality and is more calm and serious, Blake won't run away when bad stuff happens, and Weiss isn't a snobby racist rich girl anymore. That's it. There aren't any personal obstacle they have to overcome anymore. Usually you make your protagonist's character arc span over the entire story, making them struggle to overcome/control their bad habits or negative personality traits, but RWBY got it over with in less than 6 seasons. Theire done. You can't show the girls struggle to change when the change has already happened. All that's left is for the supporting cast to have their character arcs. The show runners inability to write a proper story forced them into a corner. They either have to come up with a new obstacle, which would be incredibly obvious and forced, or pretend that the c. arc's never finished, which would then again cements their bad writing and ruin the characters.
Ruby constantly leaves her team behind to fight by herself, even when she's way in over her head. I wouldn't call that responsible. Yang was just extroverted and flirtatious. Yang doesn't seem calm or serious. She is constantly complaining, and in a bad mood. I think Weiss's character arc will end in Atlas, where her change of character will be challenged. It's too early to tell if Blake truly changed, though it does seem she changed since the White Fang aren't an issue for her at the moment.
their arcs aren't supposed to end. their motivations needed to be aligned against the villains. this is how every story works. fans don't care that Jaune is on a revenge arc because he sucks and the majority of the audience doesn't care about Jaune either. they wasted vol4 starting his revenge story arc and that's where they lost the majority of their original fan base because what is the point? he isn't going to be a candidate for the maiden powers. Japan was their biggest market after the US and they haven't translated a single volume after vol4 to Japanese. That's why they delayed volume 9, the backlash from volume 8 was too much that they angered the US fan base as well, how can you anger these many people? this takes talent bro. Everything that has happened is because of Jaune's rise to power & revenge arc, which is dumb when you realize he isn't strong enough to take down cinder and never will be because his semblance sucks and he is too unskilled. We're talking about someone who has maiden powers and Jaune can't become a maiden by definition. so his arc about avenging Pyhrra is completely pointless to the story of rwby. it feels like it belongs on a generic show nobody is going to watch because it won't have rwby as cover models. just him.
@@Angi3_6 blame the writters. stop acting like rwby are real people bruh. they are being written like that for the sake of jaune having plot armor to stay around
*There's 3 Impostors among us*
It'll all be over in Vol. 8 just like Bartleby's journals, and everyone will have to find a new toon to obsess over.
Well guess what?
THEY WERE
Rename the show to JOQR
Problem solved
Joker
Hm? Who does the R stand for?
@@kennethtaffe3135 Ren obviously, he actually gets an arc /s
@@kennethtaffe3135 Ruby
Now that I’m thinking about it, how would it turn out if phyrra’s character arc in season 3 happened off screen and we only saw her deep in thought about inheriting fall’s power? It could have been a distraction during her fight with penny(assuming it wasn’t) and we see her death without any context? Juan could’ve told the story but by bit in season 4.
Edit: excuse my misspelling
5:27 in his defence, wouldn't most people call that reality contrived?
Well, what's your opinion on Volume 6 then?
I'm glad Jaune finally seemed to reach a conclusion with his visit to the Pyrrha statue. I liked that the girls got to do so much this time around, but I still lament that Ruby didn't get to do much outside of giving inspirational monologues. Her silver eyes scene was cool, but I wish we had spend a little more time discussing them or something leading up to the finale. What did you think?
@@twiinsiink Yeah, I think they could have condensed her two speeches to Qrow into one, since they revolve around the same idea. Still, it was good to see her be disappointed by her idols and grab the helm. She had to confront Ozpin's lies, her team giving up, her uncle bad tendencies, and an obstructive military. She had no ream answer to their problem except to keep going, but her determination still managed to lead them to their objective, and did good along the way, like for example she found a city distrusting the foreign garrison, for what the commander's considered as ungrateful and used her powers as an excuse to look down on everyone. She left it after humbling said commander, opening her eyes on her duty to protect the people just for the sake of doing what's right, which in turn showed the city was indeed grateful for their protection.
It could have been better, but it's still a better direction than the two previous volume when they tried to present the idea (like with Jaune's speech in Kuroyuri or Ozpin talking about her in V5) but didn't really show it.
As for her silver eyes, it was about time they do something with it. I was a bit skeptical at first about the show needing Maria when Ruby already had two mentors with Qrow and Ozpin, but they did a good job with her. I really like their scene in the garden, and Ruby learning about her powers from an elderly woman who share other similarities with her (a friend of mine described her as "a Ruby who gave up") was a nice touch too. A bit of a shame Summer wasn't mentionned there, I think it could have helped for the later scenes (both Ruby standing for herself and her group, and finally using her eyes on her own).
Letting Jaune and his teammates on the backburner for half the volume was also a good idea to focus more on the girls. It also gave us sweet moments between him and Ruby that I enjoyed. And while he was the focus when they caught up with the news, the scene at Pyrrha's status, or being the one who got the idea to solce their problems, they also let the other shine as well (like, Nora and Ren reaching for him and helping him reach his conclusion).
Like said earlier, Qrow falling into despair, becoming a burden for Ruby to handle, was also a good call. They didn't solve the root of his problems, but him accepting Ruby taking charge, and acknowledging her growth in maturity was alright. But it would be nice to show him do some actual mentoring.
I still have a problem with Oscar. I was starting to like hi, but like in V4, they skipped the most important scene in his arc, when he makes the decision to stay. Not helping is that at the same time, it pretty much already was the same arc than in the previous two volumes.
And while it was nice to see the girls taking action, I feel like Weiss kinda had the short end of the stick. She had some great moments, but she didn't really steal a scene or an episode like her teammates. I hope V7 taking place in Atlas will let her more in the spotlight.
All in all, to me the volume took steps in the right direction, though they still have room for improvement.
I agree totally agree with this
This show should be called JNPR because that team cares more about friendship and understanding each other while RWBY just...
What was their motivations again? All I see is Bumblebee now.
It feels more like team RW BY, I mean when was the last time Blake and Ruby talked to each other? It sure would be nice if they would let characters to interact with each other
Actually when’s the last time yang and ruby talked to each other. Now I don’t mean something about a mission or the plot but a time where they sat down AND HAD A HEART TO HEART to each other like normal sisters. Remember there was a point In time where yang basically had to raise ruby by herself so wouldn’t she want to be around ruby more?
Pyrra is not an impostor
1 impostor remaining