Dear Games Workshop
Вставка
- Опубліковано 29 лип 2021
- Are Games Workshop underpaying their staff? Didn't they just give everyone a £5,000 bonus?
Here are some links to things I spoke about in this video:
The former GW employee's tweets: / 1419634369464082434
The reddit post (that wasn't deleted): / why_do_people_still_bu...
A more in-depth post by James Hewitt: / working-at-games-works...
Games Workshop's 2021 profit report: investor.games-workshop.com/2...
Support us: / midwinterminis
Music: "End Credits" by Midwinter Minis, and "Jessica" from the UA-cam audio library - Розваги
My go-to justification for paying GW prices is that the premium is supposed to support the talented and passionate employees who make these games. Corporations rarely pay workers what they are actually worth... but wow, the numbers that James shared are pretty shocking. One-time bonuses are cheap media stunts. Permanent across-the-board raises are the news stories I want to read.
If you work for Games Workshop and you are pushing for changes from within, please know that you have real friends and advocates on the outside. Midwinter Minis and Goobertown Hobbies (and many more) will continue to grow in influence, and we will outlast the current incarnation of Games Workshop. We have a vested interest in the well-being of the people who actually create the products we love.
I put a lot of thought into what my role is as an advocate for this industry. I love painting minis, and I want this hobby to grow. I want more people to play with, and more minis to collect. I want to see creative people gainfully employed in this industry, and yes I want to see game companies succeed. I want to promote companies that truly deserve it. Of course I have some Warhammer videos coming up in the Goobertown pipeline, but I also have a LOT of videos featuring smaller companies. I’d love to encourage some competition between game companies to see who can treat employees and customers and local game stores with the respect they deserve!
Be good to each other :-)
If you look at their corporate filings, their profit margin is INSANE. But it’s easy to see how they manage it when you pay $35 for a single plastic figure. 😳😁
Hi goobertown hobbies! I’m new to miniature painting and love ur videos
100% agreed and very well said!
You always make such well stated and obviously thoughtful points. I agree with all of this; I'm willing to pay the 'premium' price GW already charges if the workers, designers, and artists are getting 'premium' pay! They're the ones building what we love, and deserve compensation for it.
I have my own thoughts on the matter but the bonuses in my opinion shouldn't just be discounted as a cover-up for this. GW has given bonuses like this and yearly Christmas bonuses since as early as 2016 to all employees down the line.
Being a bit ego for a bit here. I really love warhammer. It makes my life so much better every month and the fans making videos, fan art, memes and content does so too. Please games workshop, don't burn your staff, creators and fans out. I want to keep enjoying everything that's beautiful about it and its community. That's includes the staff big time. They are at the heart of it.
Damn squidddys quick on the comments
How the hell did you type this 36 minutes ago when this video was 5 minutes ago?
@@the40kboyz11 have you seen the movie 'back to the future'?
Hear hear Squid 👏🏻
Hi
I'm the author of the tweet that sparked this. I work in the tabletop games industry, and proper remuneration and credit for creators is something I'm very passionate about. Really happy to see that so much conversation has been sparked. Thanks for using your platform to raise awareness for this, Midwinter!
So it’s not just the fans they fuck over with their IP,
But they’re constantly doing it with their employees wages…
Having been a manager for GW for 8 years that resulted in anxiety, depression and finally a heart attack, you were spot on. Employees don't get paid enough but are told they are being paid the best. Maybe that's true for those they "like" or are a "good fit" who knows. I don't
Breaking up with the GW free-stuff program just to later point out their shitty business practices to a couple million viewers is a power move if I ever saw one .
"couple million" hahahahahaha as if
@@RevenantXD There's countless medium-sized 40k channels and the community as a whole is MUCH larger than you'd think
It's a real commitment to their 40k lore to structure their business model like a hive world.
I mean.... I'm not one of "those people" but damn this hits hard 3 glasses of wine in.. well said.
Even though it’s a sad reality, this made me laugh so hard 😂
Capitalism at its finest.
Trickle down economics - always something for us in the Underhive.
They certainly have the Imperium of Man LARP down pat, huh?
The absolute worst bit from James’ Twitter messages is that they wouldn’t even give him a copy of a game that he designed. He had to buy his own. Despicable and cheap.
Conversely, as an independent model maker/caster when I finished my first successful cast run I went around and gave the first 10 casts to people in the hobby world for free as a small way to give back to the community that helped me when I was just starting to learn.
I guess some people just really, really love money at the expense of everything else =/
@@nullfi7148 I bet they named their children after you...
@@sayloth Not a humble brag, the point was just that if you make it about the money you won't retain good talent and it makes you look like a company that isn't worth supporting.
While certainly a very scummy part of the message, it’s not the worst. The worst is their shitty pay and broken promises of raises. Shelling out for a copy of the game is shitty, but everyone would rather have a more comfortable living wage than a free board game.
@@nullfi7148 I don't believe you were virtue signalling. Not everyone thinks like this guy.
Carry on the good work.
Did a group interview at a GW store once. Here is a professional tip: if you are ever offered an interview and it turns out to be a group interview, just walk, there is no way that company is ever going to treat you as more than cattle.
I turned down an offered contract position in Information systems at a major financial company in St. Louis, MO after hearing they were hiring 150 new employees at the same time to expand their IT department here. It wasn't a group interview, but it felt like a cattle call and paid the same or less as similar positions in IT for this area. It was also a non-creative position in a cubicle farm, sitting behind a computer screen all day.
@@GeneJordan Anyone hiring 150 IT staff in one go isn't just expanding; they're replacing lost staff too. They lost those staff for a reason.
@@StandardGoose They were changing over to using Service Now for their IT Service Management and had recently moved into a new larger buiilding. The 150+ new people were being hired as contractors with the option to convert in the future, not immediate full-time more "permanent" employees. It still felt like a cattle-call and I felt like a lot of those co-workers wouldn't have been as qualified for the jobs they were hired for because the company was desparate for people who were breathing and who had a pulse.
Sadly I am convinced that corporations of this size are not being managed by people who share the same value as their customers and fans.
Once you have share holders, it's all about the bottom line and having people who want to work for you for sub-par wages is an easy way to get better margins.
It's all about the money and once a company gets this big, it's very rare that greed doesn't take over.
The 40k universe is just so perfect, that's what I believe is what keeps them going and the fact that they were the first successful company at selling miniatures and rules sets.
I remember interviewing with GW many years ago for store manager, then they told me the salary - laughing in an interview isnt the best way to get a job, but it gets the message across.
Similar situation here. I'm a regional sales manager at another company and saw a posting for a similar position at GW. I started to apply until I saw that GW was offering a quarter of the salary of my current position for the same career. If you want good people to stick around you need to pay them.
I did the same back in 1999, then hit a job as a store manager at an independent games store with a better salary and benefits.
I scrub toilets for a living, and if I worked full time I'd be making more than that writer.
@@KristovMars But scrubbing toilets is a more respectable job imo, writing rules or fluff for GW isn't. The reason is simple, not everyone can handle your kind of job, and if i use a toilet i like it to be clean. Sure i'd like better 40k writing, but i'd much rather have a clean toilet. Just like i want my bins collected each week! Guys like you keep the country running, something like a software writer is just laughable in comparison. Keep up the good work!
Our company (Archon Studio) makes miniatures in the plastic injection process. We employ engineers and use the same processes as GW. We are located in Poland and we are paying MORE our engineers than UK-based Corpo is to theirs. No excuses.
Hearing this makes me even more glad I supported your Kickstarter. Keep up the great work!
You make great stuff, too!
That's crazy, GW needs to get their shit together
Yooo, you guys use injection molding? I'm definitely checking your stuff out now, I've bought injection molded stuff in the past and it's all been top notch.
I've backed 2 of your KS projects for literally my yearly hobby budget each time, and have never been disappointed in either quality assurance, customer service, nor the amount of bang I've gotten for my buck! Waiting on the rapid delivery stuff from D&L III to arrive next week, and couldn't be happier. I know I must sound like a paid promoter, but it's really the opposite. I pay them for being an awesome company that has a real competitive edge to become the future of HIPS miniatures. Archon can sell you an awesome dragon, or a tabletop full of terrain for literally pennies compared to GW. Check a look, it's really worth it!
Handing out bonuses, no matter how generous, is ultimately cheaper than paying your employees the salaries that they deserve. GW is a slimy, underhanded company that cares about nothing but their profit margins. Absolutely sick to death of people giving them the benefit of the doubt just because they make a product that's steeped in nostalgia for many of us.
$7k at once is a huge chunk of money to get at once, some people can buy a car with that. And, if you can math, that’s a pretty significant percent applied to an annual income.
@@chrislail3824 I would rather be paid a fair salary than receive a bonus. You can't financially plan on a bonus that may or may not materialize whereas you can plan on a regular salary that you know you can rely on. Bonuses simply prove that your employer can afford to pay you more but is choosing not to.
@@chrislail3824 I am not familiar with UK tax code but the US taxes bonus payments at a higher rate than regular salary payments since they consider them supplemental income so they are not going to take home as much as you think.
I feel like at this point it shouldn't really surprise anyone when we hear about GW doing more underhanded things related to money, either sponging it out of their fans at increasingly alarming rates, or in this case underpaying their employees.
@@Possib1yurdaad it would be taxed within our normal tax brackets so for most gw employees, it would just be taxed at 20% on everything above 12800 ish pounds up to around 45000 where it increases to 40% - There is another bracket but it only applies to about 5 gw employees probably lol :p
To be honest, sales positions just pay like shit everywhere. I know that the minimum wage debate can just be fought forever, but GW certaintly isn't unique and will continue to pay as low as the law will allow for as long as possible.
I myself have worked the past three years as a sales assistant for a shop that has since axed all of it's other employees, and I'm now doing the work of 3 other people, plus extra responsibilities that none of those other employees ever had (and throughout COVID, no doubt). I don't even get uninterrupted lunch breaks - I'm expected to keep the store open throughout the day and take my break 'when I can'. My pay is £20 a month above the minimum wage (Just over £15k per year) and my only other benefits are a £50 Christmas bonus and a 10% discount IF I wanted to buy any of our stock.
Should I get a better job? Definitely, when I'm in the position to do so. But the point here is that this shit goes on EVERYWHERE. I guarantee you that almost any sales assistant can give you a similar story of being overworked and underpaid.
Damn man, i hope you find a better way to feed yourself in the future. Don’t lose hope!
Rule author isnt a regular sales position though. Its quite a unique talent.
Sales pays fantastic almost everywhere. Unless the company wants to scam employees
@@beerenmusli8220 That still has shitty pay sadly
I used to work in GW retail in the early 2000s and the corporate culture was toxic af. We had 1 hour mandatory unpaid "staff training" per week on a Thursday night where the manager made us clean the shop - literally go around the store, dusting every box and blister pack. When we were paid it was minimum wage of course. The joke around the stores was they paid you in lead because they had high employee discounts, but no freebies of course. Although I do remember the rate of "damaged goods" being suspiciously high (they went into the store bits box and then pilfered). So yeah, toxic and dysfunctional. It was 20 years ago to be fair but unfortunately it sounds like little has changed.
Guy, I'd have appetite for you to branch out into other games. There are some amazing board games out there with arguably much tighter rulesets than anything GW makes like Eclipse: Second Dawn for the Galaxy, and pretty good minis.
Also, I sold all my GW stuff in 2016 on ebay, but have been tempted to get back into the hobby because I really enjoy your videos. But screw it, I don't think I'll bother. Make my own games instead.
Yep, worked at GW same time whist at uni. There was always this culture of being made to felt you should be grateful for working for them.
Plenty of other commercial figures out there, and plenty of other rule sets. I’ve not spent a penny on Warhammer or any of its offshoots (except paints) in decades.
@@latro666 That sounds similar to Blizzard.
Not paying your staff is illegal, somebody should tell GW that. Discounts on overpriced miniatures doesn't feed families.
The low wages at Games Workshop have been a mainstay of the company since the very start. We know someone at Forge World who paints and it's the same story there.
Glass door is also highly inaccurate. Look up wells fargo salaries my wife and I are no where close lol and we live in a top 3 most expensive city in the world. No company pays well it's called a side hussle. Iv got 4 lol
Having worked as a GW manager (2013-2016) I can tell you that we are _not_ on 46k/annum 😂
If you're part time, you don't even get staff discount. It's only for full time staff.
I got better paid at Wetherspoons.
@@chrisanson7639 The way I see it personally. Is that if you as an employer find someone who loves working for you and your company you do not take that enthusiasm and then make a quantifiable proportional pay cut regarding roles in a similar line of work. A GW store manager is not just a tiller, stock taker etc it is so much more than that and they have to be remunerated according to their real value and potential value to the company. Paying someone chicken feed is ultimately going to breed contempt towards your company when the inevitable occurs and one of your employees say .. has a bad day at work.
Gw shysters
Wow!!! Mad respect to you Guy. As a former music retail employee, i can completely understand your point. I am blown away by your willingness to stand with your principles and entertain the idea of moving your content to another focus. Its bold and risky, but you will gain more by being true to yourself and your support of the creative force behind such cool games.
Seems to me the same dilemma as working in videogames. You're passionate, there is a large supply of workers who are similarly inclined. Perfect situation to drive down wages and employee rights.
I just got into this hobby, and it's so sad to see what's happening at GW lately with their staff, plus the new restrictions on fan content... Maybe it's time to take a break from buying models for a while.
Thanks for standing up and bringing this to our attention Guy, and solidarity to the staff at GW.
There are tons of non-GW alternatives out there that are just as good! 3D Printing, of course, has opened many doors, but there are also tons of third party companies making fantastic minis. And, of course, it's always worthwhile to check out minis on Ebay or Craigslist where you can get the GW models you want without supporting the company if that helps to ease your conscience.
Same, earlier this year I started my first army and got 4 other friends to do the same, that's over $1k for GW already with multiple thousands to come, but the more I learn about their business practices the more I'm cautioning my group to hold off.
Would love to see a movement start where people list out all the stuff they'll buy from GW as soon as a union is formed 🙂
I started collecting in May after 11years of reading 40k books, and am realizing this maybe isnt the hobby I want to be apart of.
I started last year to keep busy. I was trying to quit smoking and I wanted to keep my hands busy. TTS and Astartes had grabbed my interest, along with general lore. I'm 2 army's in, brought 3 friends along for the ride, and have spent at least 2K on their products. I'm seriously unsure if I can continue supporting them. Other brands await my money and I'm starting to hear 3D printing calling my name.
@@AubLambe Yeah, especially when some people in the hobby are elitist fucks and say "if you can't afford it, just play with sticks and stones" then this is the shit I definitely don't want to be a part of.
For what it's worth I'd 100% support a change in direction of the channel to focus on the wider hobby rather than solely GW products. I also don't think I'm unique in holding that viewpoint. :)
Agreed! Warlord Games are a company that I would highly recommend Supporting!
If its not obscure games that i can't go out and purchase, i'm all for it.
Bolt-Action and Flames of War.
Both big games and games I'm interested in switching too.
Good on you for speaking up, Guy! It's been an uncomfortable few weeks in the hobby with their crackdown on fan animators, and this revelation that they still pay bugger all to their staff who create the products we fans enjoy so much is hard to stomach.
It's disappointing that GW's public face has changed, but the exploitative rot inside has remained.
You're a gem, Guy. Also, I can't even imagine how many copies of Blackstone Fortress you sold for them.
Quite possibly more than were made in the initial run.
I was one. I was just tooling around watching videos one day, stumbled onto his BF vids and went out and bought a copy (though I got mine from my local hobby store, not a GW store).
Valrak, winters, Midwinter's... These are some of the most positive UA-cam channels out there and every single one has had to make a video about GW recently. Its honestly just really disappointing how GW has been acting.
To be honest valrak is a shill. All it will take is them releasing fucking dorn and he will buy 27 of them. That's the sad part of this it's all just shills who they left, fucking pathetic at this point
@@SuperOmegaBerserker Agree, Valrak most times shills like crazy. I mean he always avoid words that directly critisize the company.
Sometimes hype things up almost corporate like.
@@boywithcrackers3871 he is in line with them, he tests new things and gets shit early.
@@SuperOmegaBerserker shill or is excited about the hobby ? I do think how he knows about leak thatcare very detail and doesnt get hit by gw legal team very fishy.
@@thephoenix8722 when a guy buys 25 boxes of gravis primaris boxes....
Hes a shill, why not get recast of them it's the same quality lmao. GW themselves 3D print their master sculpts
I live in Nottingham and close to a few people who work there and would say your comments are right on the money , especially in areas of their company that should realistically be getting at least an extra 5/10k a year.
One question may be allowed: you Brits have a proud tradition of trade unions and striking workers who persevered even when they were shot at. What has become of it?
@@Raubabbau the 80s happened and apart from the traditional jobs there isn't a lot of unions.
@@al424242 In Germany there are no longer the classic jobs like steelworker and miner either and Maggie is how long dead ? , but that hasn't stopped warehouse workers, salespeople or IT people from organizing themselves anyway. The two largest unions Verdi (union for services) and IG Metall (self-explanatory) no longer "only" represent their original members.
@@Raubabbau yeah unions are definitely more a US thing now. With some big exceptions to the general vibe (teachers, NHS workers, maybe train drivers too) unions might as well not even exist here.
Honestly, they should find other work then; or discuss your wage with your employer. It might not be easy, but good things in your life never are.
Red Dogg Music was a brilliant store. Great collection of synths, and staff that really inspired me back in the day. Such a shame it's gone!
years ago when I was about 15 ( I`m 47 now lol) I was always in Games Workshop, the atmosphere and attitude from the staff was amazing. I really wanted to work there when I left school so I chatted to a Guy called Shane (who was a manager). I was shocked to hear about how they were treated and paid.I asked him how he remained so positive about the products when his employers were treating staff like prisoners. He simply said that he loved the job but hated his bosses. I know a lot of people hate their bosses but these guys rose above that to make sure that us geeks were always welcomed and treated like kings.I have no problem with buisnesses making money but employees should get a fair wage and not be threatened with court action for discussing upcoming products with fellow geeks,(This happened a few years later in the early 1990`s when more chaos factions and models were in developement) My mate the manager was sacked for simply giving us geeks a bit of a sneaky peak at some new models and core rules. Not sure who or how he was grassed up but I think he severed all contact with GW. Last I heard he was working with Reaper miniatures.
For what it's worth, as a minor nobody in an ocean of opinionated comments~ I will merrily watch you paint models, play games, and talk about the hobbies you enjoy.
I am a fan of Midwinter Minis! I can take or leave Games workshop.
Well put!
I agree. I watch MWM and I don't play GW games anymore.
This
Yes, get some other independent manufacturer minis painted up, maybe even try historical...
amen
Frost/Stargrave campaigns/tournaments would be amazing in your video style guy, I agree with this person. GW has been a big part of many of our lives, but miniatures and wargames are fun without them.
After TTS's announcement in the wake of GW's recent decisions, im kinda heart broken. After the hiring of the guy from astartes, it felt like maybe the oldschool days were gone and they were evolving. They are really showing that was a "my bad" on our part. Pay your employees GW and can we not with the fire and brimstone against fan animations seeing as your now gonna profit off one of their greatest.
If you don't mind what was the TTS announcement?
@@fickett7870 he’s cancelling TTS and shifting away from GW IP, trying to move to a new universe for his content.
@@fickett7870 If I were to guess it would be the If the Emperor had a Text to Speech Device series by Bruva Alfabusa, who has the series on an indefinite hiatus until the issue with GW tightening on copyright settles (7:44) as noted in his recent announcement.
@@The_Captain40k He just had a child too
@@Dante3214 That sucks, I don't watch TTS but I watched the video and my heart broke, he was so downtrodden, poor guy!
>rule writer gets less that $28,000 a year
>yearly income in American pay on average for full time jobs is closer $30k
He was making the bare minimum if he was in America, especially for a dad
Well a video game writer gets paid on average in the UK £31,783 and you get just £20,000 for being a rule writer. C’mon like in the gaming world they should get paid the same if they want people to work at their best.
I would absolutely love to see you cover other games, you had me all excited with the Stargrave rules book!
I work for a small independent games shop. We aren’t in a big city, and we don’t have thousands of customers. I’m the only employee, I’m part time and I know that at time the business has struggled, but my boss always has payed me very well. Yet another reason to support your local shop.
Glad that creators are talking about this, GW won't change unless they see that the greater community is unhappy with their recent practices, IP and business related.
GW is a publicly traded company, if the shareholders don’t complain then they’re in the clear.
The Outer Circle been critical of GW for a long while, funny now that some of them are now finally saying something.
Given that despite all the crappiness, they are declaring record profit on record profit, I don't think they give two shits about the community
The only thing that matters is if the workforce begins to collectively bargain. Bad press will blow over, but a strike can hurt. As consumers we must be ready to support the strike if it comes, and don't be a scab
It's nothing to do with happiness. The only thing that will get GW to change is money.
First TTS going on indefinite hold and now this, guess ill really have to make good on my promise to get a resin printer
Do it! I`ve printed about 200 models since I got mine last year. Learning curve and costs are low and the quality is great. No regrets here.
Time to go brrrrr
The sad reality is that companies like Games Workshop pay as little as they can get away with. They're not an outlier for that approach. The good news is that just because other companies do it, they don't NEED to. They could buck the trend and actually pay people a reasonable amount for the work they expect of them, especially when that work is part of the sales model that has driven them to record profits.
Treat employees better. An executive making £50,000 less when they're on £660,000 a year will make no difference to them. An extra £5,000 to someone on £20,000 is huge.
The system sucking as a whole when it comes to paying staff is no excuse for Games Workshop to suck personally when it comes to paying their staff.
Great video Guy.
Gw overprices the products
Bans fan animations
And now also underpays the staff... Who would have thought...
@@insomniacbritgaming1632 isnt 22k a year exatremely low ?
@@insomniacbritgaming1632 £22k is not a professional wage. That's a "starting out in an industry wage". If designers doing big things are on that it's absolutely shocking.
@@insomniacbritgaming1632 not to mention this is a STARTING salary and is constantly up for review based on performance and other bonus'/Profit share. I think half a story has been told on twitter
They’re taking a lot of flak recently from online creators and influencers - even Valrak has posted a video criticising them! I hope that this power of the people trend can achieve some real change for the better.
If Emperor had TTS just went on hiatus cause of their IP enforcement changes.
I worked for GW in the early 2000's. I lasted a few months before I handed in my notice. Terrible company to work for, wages were a joke, and this is back when the staff discount was brilliant (6p Dark Eldar Rever Jetbike sprue). Every weekend the shop was used a a place parents would drop off their kids while they went around town shopping. So essentially the staff ended up doing a retail job, that also entailed being a child minder, and a hobby assistant.
I was young, and like you it was viewed as the dream job... experience soon sobered me out of that delusion. Also it killed off my desire to hobby outside of work. Work and play need to be separate things. Still, glad I did it, as it was a learning experience.
I am not surprised that GW haven't changed their tune.
You're absolutely spot on there, train your staff well enough that they can easily get a job with your competetor, treat them well enough that they won't want to. It's not not rocket surgery
GW were paying developers around 20-24k while dropping 1 million for their new websites. Lots of their wages are like coal mine workers from back in the day, it's cheaper to work elsewhere and buy GW than work for them and use the 50% discount.
Edit, I remembered some funny anecdotes:
Aside from me personally applying for a job there (before running off hearing the salary and work hours), I may or may not have been friends with staff members and a painter for the studio reported the exact same thing as the rules writers but for less than 18k while their overtime would pay way more.
When they started producing warlord titans, the staff member who was given the task to paint it was promised to keep the titan only for it to be taken away from him and he was offered some amount in exchange.
A colorblind member of the management team was criticizing studio paint jobs.
Especially back in the earlier 2010s their studio staff didn't even have access to a lightbox and they used a wash basket with a white cloth.
Damn, GW is oofing their IP.
First the animation part then this? Honestly they're making Flashgitz's video a documentary.
this was in 2016, not any time recent. Guy neglects this crucial detail lmao.
I'm sure they suddenly started paying their employees so much better, I mean it was nice of them to give them a bonus after those record profits
Thanks for making this video, and I’ll keep watching no matter what game’s models your painting! Your tutorials are top notch, straight forward, and you often use some very unique color palettes. Keep it up!
I've been a GW fan for decades now. When I was a kid I spent a tonne of time homeless and in precarious living situations, but anytime I was given any money to spend I'd take it down to my singular local hobby shop and spend that money on Warhammer 40k.
In my half terms as a scraggly kid with no friends, living in a flat that we couldn't afford to run the boiler in I used to help run a Warhammer club. Me as a 12-14 year old would go and help the retired biker in his 50s that started the club teach other kids to play the game, I'd explain to their parents what to buy. I'd upsell all the more fancy expensive sets to help my gaming store make money, and to give their kids cool and interesting starting armies. I could do this because I would buy the goddamn catalogs that they used to sell and pour over it aspirationally. I was so familiar with the entire GW line.
As I got older my circumstances didn't get much better. I'm 28 now and have only just managed to get my life into a state where I can start thinking about having hobbies again.
I'm ashamed of GW. I'm actively looking at different games publishers to get my fix of miniatures games. £20k for a position as a lead game designer is pathetic money and GW should be embarressed that that's what they think is a fair wage for a person doing the job that's the literal cornerstone of the game they produce.
This 5k bonus is a pitance. An empty gesture in the face of the companies obvious Union-busting attitude. The carrot that comes after the stick. Not enough that it's actually a gift in anyway but just enough that they can threaten to take it away if anyone actually dare to ask to be respected for their labour.
I love my local gw manager, he's an amazing guy and deserves more!
Same here!
Mine's rly kind and also gives me painting advice a lot, he actually used my little brother as an example for a figure.
PRAISE TIM!
and here
I can't imagine how stressful it must be to run a model shop with zero staff; especially during the Summer Holidays.
I just feel awful for Bruva alfabusa, I could hear the pain in his voice in his most recent video.
@@insomniacbritgaming1632 It's not pirated if its fair use. Also, GW is not one to talk about pirating.
@@insomniacbritgaming1632 I could waste my time trying to explain the concept of parody to you, but I have better things to do. Paint the universe white, for example...
@@insomniacbritgaming1632 Fair use in the states at least has a variety of factors. Just because you are making a profit doesn't preclude a finding of fair use.
And yes parody/satire is one such factor.
The issue is that UA-cam just wants to avoid messes and rips stuff down as per terms of usage agreement. But I doubt GW could win in court.
@@insomniacbritgaming1632 90% of youtube shouldn't exist according to your incredibly stupid opinion
@@insomniacbritgaming1632 So wait, you don't think TTS was a comedy?
Fucken ehhh?
Edit: Thank you kindly for giving me the push I needed to get started.
"Astartes" caught my interest. I got hooked after hours and hours of Leutin09 lore videos. I was on the fence about the models - the painting intimidated me until I watched your video where you paint the skitarii, necron, and space marine with your son and daughter. Your video convinced me to buy a box of intercessors and some paint. Scott the Miniac and Squidmar taught me how to paint. Vince Venturella taught me all the Hobby Secrets and got me into AoS. Uncle Atom at Tabletop Minions connected all the dots of the hobby and provided motivation along the way. I could go on talking about my undying love for Aborder Prince and Baldermort's wonderful voices and stories I've listened to while working on the 7 armies I own. I have 7 armies of models between 40k and AoS that I've assembled and am currently painting. And my gf recently started a Daughters of Khaine army... GW is basically a footnote in what I consider The Hobby. Their rules are always broken and I end up playing my own version anyway. What has become my full-time interest is y'all - Mini-tube, Hammer-tube, Hobby-tube.. GW just happens to be taking all of the money and their recent actions have made me very, very aware of that now.
A 3D printer can cost much less than another army.
We really need more people like you in the world, Guy. Thank you for having the integrity you do.
I came for the Warhammer, but I’ll stay for Penny’s “Wa-hey”s whenever Guy says something vaguely sexual :)
@@drpenny9844 We haven't heard from you in a awhile! Hope all is well Doc!
This is why you ALWAYS get offers of raises in writing.
Thus is why you don't take a job for 20k unless you honestly know you're only worth 20k
Does anyone know what the salary is? Both for sales assistant and store manager?
Please pay your employee's better GW, they do amazing work, and they deserve it. Not just the creatives, the entire staff! Investing in your own people means better content, and more of it! These things might not seem to be apparent all the time in sales figures, but they do end up resonating with the audience/customers, which means more profit over all.
This explains a lot of GW's rules writing.
They don't pay their writers enough for them to actually give a fuck about their job.
LOL. I can see this happening:
"So Jeff, Tom wrote the Deathguard codex. We need something that picks up the sales for Ad Mech".
"Well, let's see... I can make the Vanguard auto-wound on 4s... that should be good for the game!".
@@tychoMX Such as the horrible rules writing in the new Orks Codex that will require a huge FAQ (that I'm sure is being worked on currently). All just before a huge release of new 40K Ork models right after giving all Orks in the game rules a boost to Toughness 5.
While it sounds like they are following the lore and giving the Ork faction a much needed boost, it also incorporates game creep and "sideways creep".
That's my own term for when certain units and sets of models fall out of favor and certain units fall into favor. Which in turn causes the current players to replace some units, models, or factions they played before an update to the rules with different units, models, or factions that have a better value in the game.
Many of these players are "chasing the meta" for deliberately using only the best pieces of the game or even outright spamming a newly in favored unit until an FAQ changes it's value, then claim that it was "nerfed" when it was really was changed for game balance.
That doesn't excuse GW for deliberately implementing rules changes which cause new models to fly off of the shelf while the previous ones gather dust on the amazing paint jobs of hobbyists.
@@GeneJordan remember when GW pointed Reaver Jetbikes at 10 pts a model and then took 2 months to errata it??
Classic GW tactic.
@@pinoarias8601 I don't recall that because it's a faction that I have never played, but it sounds like a GW "ooops" that wasn't fixed until boxes of that unit sold out worldwide.
Well said. Unfortunately, management almost always sees their employees as replaceable cogs. Games Workshop knows there are hordes of desperate people wanting to be part of the company until they realize the pay is garbage for the work they put in and they burn out or move on. Like Goobertown replied, bonuses are cheap stunts. Let's talk permanent pay increases all around.
Sure. But companies will continue to treat employees like "replaceable cogs" because... they are. Not to sound rude.. but no single person will be so integral to the company's survival that they can't let them go. And if people act like cogs and keep applying to replace the last person that was fired (or left), why would GW change anything?
Its a buyer's market as far as GW is concerned; if the employees themselves made the decision to walk out because they don't believe they're being treated fairly, GW might change. In general though, people need to become better at arguing for their pay. The company isn't compelled to give anymore than it needs to for your work, you need to be better at telling them why you're worth more than they're giving.
@@frostmagemarii I don’t think anything I said is disagreement. The main point is employers will prey on “passion” for the company. You need to be ready to move on if they don’t recognize your talent or ability and compensate it fairly.
GW isn’t going to change anything, because at the end of the day there is always another sucker to take your place. I just find it amusing that at the height of record profits they are going after small stl makers for IP infringement and banning digital artists for the equivalence of free viral marketing. They can pay their employees better, but shooed to pass that money to share holders. No different than bezos and his phallic rocket.
You say 1 Paint pot per 10 views. Well you're imperial knight video is what got me back in the hobby, since then I've bought 5 knights, the chaos Xmas box set, 7 boxes of chaos marines, 3 boxes of terminators, the chaos marine start collecting(unfortunate that they lost in your mini competition series), start collecting khorne daemons(also unfortunate they lost too😂), 3 boxes of blood letters and plenty more that I can't even think of off the top of my head. I wouldn't have bought any of that if my friend hadn't shown me your videos
Just adding my voice that this is unacceptable. The talent at GW is so high, and with all their growth there is no reason why a rules writer or other members of the team are paid so low.
I'd genuinely love to see you do some Non-GW minis or tutorials, especially Star Grave or Bolt Action
Kitbashing with non-GW bits!
Love the growth that this channel has shown over the years. If it weren't for creators like you and others, I would have never started this hobby. I hope GW listens to you guys and fans and make right this nasty practice that they are getting addicted to!
I would love to see more non-GW content on tabletop channels tbh, lately I've been enjoying Frostgrave and I love that you can just use any models you have on hand that match the theme and scale (28mm is perfect so it's an easy transition for many people) but there are so many other cool games and models to check out. As an independent model maker I can tell you that it's always nice to see a channel feature a mini from a smaller company as I know the amount of work and love that goes into most of those pieces.
Love your content man, subscribed and ready for more :)
5 Parsecs from Home, Corespace, Infinity the Game, Advanced Song of Blades and Heroes, Frostgrave, Stargrave, Reign in Hell, Freebooter's Fate .... there is so much other stuff.
I think we would love to see you expand the tabletop universe.
When I got my job at GW I was asked what my salary expectations were as part of the interview. I (rather daringly) asked for £4K above what I was getting in my current job. (For context I was already earning over £20K/year). My thinking was that even if they low-balled me from there I might still get a few extra quid a month. I was offered the job, told I was underselling myself and offered an additional £1K on top of my already high suggestion of salary. My brother-in-law also got offered a higher salary than expected for the job role he has with GW. I obviously can't deny that other people have been relatively low paid, but it doesn't seem to be a company-wide thing.
I know that in many large corporations it is like this. The people who ask for what they are worth when being hired are the ones who are actually get it. But if you accept a low ball offer, it's very difficult to get your pay right sized later on down the road.
You should've asked for 40K. 😁
No offence, but is this because you have one of the arsehole job titles like a project development coordinator?
If it wasnt a company wide thing, there were not so many stories like the one from the rule author dad.
Well-paid, well-rested employees are productive employees. Even the coldest, most ruthless capitalists must understand that.
I admire you and other miniature hobby content creators addressing this from the outside. I hope that they have people pushing from the inside too.
Former Privateer Press employee here. Same thing there. If you aren't in a top position, you're getting minimum wage. Even if you are, it's hardly competitive.
well done Guy. we need more of these discussions!!! with the money GW make they can afford to treat there staff properly. only open discussions like this could hope to bring change. so well done.
I’m not… and I don’t.. best line in the video!! Quite an anchor to a well thought out dialogue. Thanks for your content 🙂
It's almost impressive how quickly GW has hurt their own goodwill with the what I've dubbed as 14th copyright crusade being announced and these wage details shortly after.
This was brilliant Guy, really great to see creators using their platforms to push for positive industry change.
An excellent editorial piece presented flawlessly, very impressive to see! Unfortunately this issue is pervasive through all industries, not just gaming. When a person can work full time and still can't earn enough to afford the essentials in life then the situation must change.
Corporations wield more power than countries these days and exploit their workers, avoid paying tax in the countries where their staff and customers live and then pay their CEOs exorbitant amounts for 'improving company performance' (i.e. being heartless sociopaths). Thank you for shining a light upon this dirty part of the world.
Dude, congrats on the weight loss. What a beast.
yeah I was baffled too!
I would be down for more varied non GW specific content
I painted D&D miniatures in the 80s. I played a Space Hulk game on my mates computer in the early 90s. I read Eisenhorn not long ago. More recently, I just bought most of the stuff recommended stuff for painting miniatures in this guy's list. And my first Warhammer 40k Recruit kit. Due to this guy, and Squidmar, and Majorkill, Luetin09, Dana Howl, the creators that did amazing work on Helsreach and Astartes.
Whatever is going on at GW is management shit from the 80s that some people in the 90s still thought was clever. Adapt, embrace, or get eaten alive.
I’ve only ever worked in construction and because of that I had no idea how shit the pay is for retail is, it’s insane to me that people are only making $20k a year and are able to live off of it.
A corporation paying staff what they are worth? "Laughs in profits". I hope they improve but I am not surprised.
“Fun” industries are always weaponized by cynical corporate executives. It’s gross every time, whether it’s in tabletop games, video games, or other forms of art.
It's other way around. Employees do the job regardless of the pay because of other concerns that they consider valuable. This is the nature of a transaction.
I've quit some comfortable jobs over pay/advancement and it's always worth doing.
I hope this video sees GW make some changes. I also love how the idea of your channel moving to a more table top view. Not just GW.
Because of your videos, my wife and I bought and painted the full set of Blackstone Fortress. It was the first time my wife picked up a brush and painted a model. Without your videos we wouldn't have bothered with the game, and I know I'm not the only one.
I've said it 100 times and I'll say it again, GW take advantage of our loyalty. I'll never forget the amazing and incredibly generous offer they gave us of a free paintbrush case with every purchase...
over £200.
This is common in fields that people are inspired by for personal reasons. Such as video games, zoos, and teaching. The companies know this and can wring out its workers for everything because they know that this is their passion and they will be reluctant to leave regardless.
Wow Guy thanks for making this video and for sharing your experience in the music industry as well. I’ve had (and am still having as a part time employee) a similar experience with the outdoor retail industry. I have worked for a very large outdoor company for years and have always felt that I have been underpaid because it is a “desirable” job - I get to sell bikes and tents for a living and for myself and all my co-workers there is someone out there who would happily take my place just for the opportunity to spend their days around outdoor “toys”. BUT that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be compensated. Unfortunately I feel that in recent generations our world has forgotten how to value and celebrate alternative jobs and artistic endeavors. I believe that all us hardworking folk in any line of work should still be compensated justly. We all deserve to have jobs we are passionate about that ALSO pay the bills. Thanks for making this video and I really hope this might be the first small wave of change for GW. And to think I was *this close* to dipping my toes into the Warhammer waters…rethinking that now…
Nice video. The reasons companies do things are sometimes complex and I think your right about the supply and demand issues keeping the wages low. People actively want to work there, so it is easier to get staff.
I also think their share price is going to continue to increase, so those shares might be worth much more in future if they can keep them, plus they can get a dividend, so a gift that keeps giving.
I don't work there, but like you I enjoy their lore. So much so I went and bought one of those space marines from your previous video in the reclamation yard. BTW the price went up and not down 🤣🤣.
I feel like this kind of problem crops up whenever an industry is seen as a "dream job". Game development has this problem too, as did Hollywood before it got unionized.
Happens with Blizzard Entertainment too. They prey on peoples love for their franchises. They know they can get away with poor wages because people will take the pay cut to work on/with something they love. I know i'd personally take a 10-20% pay drop to work in a GW store instead of stacking shelves at a supermarket or taking calls in a call centre, just because it'd be more enjoyable.
@@porcu12345 I mean, the guy you're responding to specifically mentioned Game Development already...
@@KahlevN And? I followed up by going into the specifics of one of, if not the worst, game companies to do it.
Dude, you can pivot to other minis, I'm sure we'd love to see tutorials on other companies.
wow, Guy! I'm honestly very happy to see you putting out content like this. Regardless of whatever shift you make in the videos you choose to make now, many of us here will continue to support you and the family.
I have a friend who works for GW and he says they pay fairly and are extremely fair in things other than just the numbers on their payrolls. For example health benefits, paternity leave, bonuses for success in projects, a good and stress-free workload, long deadlines, for example, paying people without them working (Corona things). Here on germany, you can do "Kurzarbeit" which essentially means the workers work less or not at all. My friend didn't have to work a full month without any Lee payment. My friend earns enough to keep his family well fed and buy all kinds of wargaming stuff as he gets it cheaper from GW as an employee. He seems absolutely fine.
If they are paying their rule writers less then what I earned as a security guard. That explains a lot on why the 9th Edition rules are the way they are.
You used this terrible situation as a way to sneak in a cringy jab at an edition you dislike. This was…a bad comment. Shitty business practices aside, 9th is objectively a popular edition.
Nice pic
@@ravenshotred in the tournament scene yes.
Killed my flgs gang
@@ravenshotred Cool story bro, this is not Twitter those arguments don't work here. If I had an issue with 9th, I would have just out right said it. If you want to ignore the issue of OP or unbalanced codices that on you. But paying employees on pennies and a pat on the head. Will never lead to quality rules and will lead to the disaster that 7th did in the long run.
Do it, pivot away from GW. :)
I'm not saying cut them completely, but there's a whole eco system of talented game designers out there who could use your positive influence a hell of a lot more than GW could
"...and makes me more and more tempted to pivot my videos away from Games Workshop products, and into the wider tabletop game scene"
Do it! I would absolutely love to see you take on speed painting techniques for Bolt Action camo schemes or how to smash out a good looking AT-ST for Star Wars Legion.
You are very well spoken. It's a breath of fresh air to see someone not mock or call names, but to address something in a professional way while putting their own content at risk. If we can rubber stamp you into every content creator for GW, we would see a very different GW. With that being said, we can categorize MANY companies into the same thinking/actions as we have recently seen. The passion of our hobby helps us pay more attention to a "GW" more than we would a "McDonalds". At the end of the day however, GW is a business. They exist to make a profit. What they sell to make a profit is honestly irrelevant....to them. It's tough for us, because we hold the product they DO sell, so dear. A truly excellent company can bridge that divide. If I were a person who mattered at GW, I would start laying those foundations today (even at the loss of some profit) to insure a better profit tomorrow. Unlike "McDonalds etc.." We honestly LOVE the product. Thanks for the video. Excellent job.
Caveat: This is not an excuse to increase your prices again GW!
As though they need a reason to do such a thing
Look after your staff, and your staff'll look after your company.
Exactly. Staff will truly work hard if they feel valued and supported by the company, especially if they feel like a part of it, to the extent where their success in their work for the company directly helps the company and they get rewarded for that.
I can share a similar story : I work for a big meat company, in the I.T. department. During Lock Down local sales went skyrocketing for a bit. During the first and second lockdown we provided nearly 24/7 assistance for the supply chain and other departments... what we obtained was a one time bonus 1k € (tax excluded, yep excluded). We developed new stuff from thin f*ing air in order tu guarntee people to work in security exposing our neck to this mfing pandemic... a pat on the shoulder and less of a K as a bonus. Thank you. Don't get me wrong I'm more than lucky to still have my job or have a job at all but... you know... more then one "boss" changed his ride :) . I live in a different country, but this should give you an idea that all the "old world" despite of the country think "MOSTLY" alike... and most of the existing big companys think alike... also rip my english (?)
Outstanding content! Thank you for taking a stand on this.
Worked for GW for 5 years, two years as full timer, three years as store manager from 2007-2012. Can legit say (and have my copies of my contracts still) was paid £15k as a store manager....not great, but I did it because I loved it at the time.
Brilliant, fantastic, so well put together. I wish every big GW-related UA-cam channel said something along these lines, GW needs to review its management so badly.
This was a really thoughtful, well-balanced argument put forward with great examples.
I encourage everything that you've suggested here and really appreciate why you've made this video and it's tone.
Let's hope it does bring about positive change in GW and keep up the good work!
Interesting vid. Dodging the main theme for sec, I for one would love to see you cover games/minis from FFG, CMON and the like!
Any company that can leverage their employees passion for the industry, product or service, will, invariably pay quite poorly - especially if shareholders are involved. I was a keen snowboarder and worked in ski retail industry - pay was terrible.
I worked in the non-profit sector for many years and can confirm. The number of times I heard "people should want to do it out of passion" in response to explaining that our horrible hiring rate probably had something to do with us pulling legal shenanigans to pay less than minimum wage. We paid the fundraisers the least which had to be a huge slap in the face to people who were intimately aware of the huge amount of money flowing into the org.
Hope Penny, you and the twins are doing great !
Will you give your opinion about the fan animations IP situation ?
She has lots of strong opinions!
@@MidwinterMinis So, no change there? Motherhood hasn't mellowed her? Good on, Dr Penny Midwinter!
@@MidwinterMinis gotta make a video on the situation, might get their attention?
Thank you for making this video and using your platform to speak about these topics publicly. I'd support a pivot toward other tabletop content.
Great video and well said, I appreciate all the GW workers for what they do. It’s not just the models, it what it brings, community, and friendship.
GW haven't been the 'Few blokes in a shed making minis out of passion' for a long time. I love the hobby and the lore, but I'll always be a bit reluctant to walk into a GW store and spend my money. They'll still make money if you buy from an indie shop, but you're supporting a small business instead of the company, that's run very differently from when many of us fell in love with the hobby, getting all of your money.
Remember TTS.
Only just got into WH, your videos are super inspiring and I wanna get into this hobby. It’s great how passionate you are. Thank you :)
I make as much as gw employees while helping my mom and pop shop relatively part time. That’s too low for the guys that put in so much effort for the hobby I adore