The Elf Life Cycle | Tolkien Explained
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
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Check out these great resources that were super helpful in researching this topic!
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Celeborn and Arwen - Ralph Damiani
A lord of the elves - MellorianJ
A Summer Ride - Kuliszu
Glorfindel and the Balrog - Alan Lee
Cirdan - Alystraea
Finwe & Miriel - Alystraea
The First Elves - Alystraea
Finwe & Indis - Alystraea
Miriel - Alystraea
Miriel Weaving - Alystraea
Turgon - Alystraea
Death of Miriel - Anna Kulisz
Aredhel lost in Nan Elmoth - Sara Morello
Aredhel - Aegeri
Awakening of the elves - Kuliszu
Beleriand Map - Lamaarcana
Beren & Luthien - Steamey
Boromir - Catherine Karina Chmiel
Celeborn & Galadriel - Anotherstranger_me
Celeborn and Thranduil - Steamey
Celeborn - Tolman Cotton
Celeborn in Lothlorien - Anotherstranger_me
Celebrian - Jenny Dolfen
Children of Rohan - Aegeri
Children of the Noldor - Turner Mohan
Children of Feanor - Jenny Dolfen
Dark Elf - Matthew Stewart
Death of Feanor - Jenny Dolfen
Descendants of Thingol - Jenny Dolfen
Elf of Lorien - Sara Morello
Elrond and Arwen - Anotherstranger_me
Elrond and Celebrian - Kuliszu
Elrond and Elros - Jenny Dolfen
Elven sketch - MellorianJ
elves - Steamey
elves in anduinie - Matej Cadil
Eru and the gods - Kip Rasmussen
Feanor and family - aegeri
feanor and silmarils - Bellabergolts
feanor with his mother - Steamey
Fantasy landscape - Felix Englund
Forest Creek - Felix Englund
Fingolfin - Jenny Dolfen
Fingolfin - Skullb*st*rd
Finrod - YidanYuan
Finrod Doormouse - Jenny Dolfen
Finrod, Beor, and Green Elves - Steamey
Finrod in Nargothrond - Anotherstranger_me
Finwe near Miriel - Steamey
Forest of Mirkwood - Christina Kraus
Caranthir and elves - Steamey
Glorfindel with Elrond & Gandalf - Alystraea
Gwindor's Charge - Peter Xavier Price
Haldir in Lothlorien - Anotherstranger_me
Half-elf warrior - Tolman Cotton
Gwindor in Taur-nu-Fuin - Matthew Stewart
Brothers - Janka Lateckova
Manwe - Janka Lateckova
Cuivienen - Jenny Dolfen
Fields of Gold - Jenny Dolfen
Gil-galad - Jenny Dolfen
Humiliation - Jenny Dolfen
Ruin of the House of Feanor - Jenny Dolfen
Legolas & Old Aragorn - YidanYuan
Love at first sight - Liga Klavina
Nimrodel - Liga Klavina
Luthien & Beren - Tolman Cotton
Luthien - Tolman Cotton
Brothers in Nargothrond - Marya Filatova
Celegorm - Marya Filatova
Curufin - Marya Filatova
Dorthonion - Marya Filatova
Indis of the Vanyar - Marya Filatova
Thingol - Marya Filatova
Thranduil - Marya Filatova
Young Mahtan - Marya Filatova
Melkor Descends upon Arda - Kip Rasmussen
An Elf-stone - Miriam Ellis
Miriel and Feanaro - Tolman Cotton
Orome discovers the elves - Kip Rasmussen
Cirdan - Peter Xavier Price
Ingwe, Finwe, and Elwe - Peter Xavier Price
Halls of Mandos - Ralph Damiani
Rivendell - Sara Morello
Thingol & Melian - Sara Morello
Under the same Moon - Sara Morello
Viresse Veil - Sara Morello
Sindar elf - Turner Mohan
Turin and Gwindor - Ted Nasmith
Elven king - Anotherstranger_me
Court of Thingol - Steamey
Wedding of Elrond and Celebrian - Alystraea
Thingol & Melian - Kinko White
Thingol & Melian - Kip Rasmussen
Thingol & Luthien - Steamey
Thranduil & wife - Alystraea
#elves #tolkien #lordoftherings
In re: the separation of elf spouses,
I've seen people griping about Galadriel going off to the west without Celeborn and how it must mean that they don't really like each other much. However, I always picture their next meeting something like this,
Galadriel: Hello, dear. I've got the house cleaned up and redecorated. Celebrian and I wove mallorn tree tapestries for the hall and I did the bedroom in blue.
Celeborn: Glad to be here, darling. I closed up Lorien and helped the boys tidy up Rivendell. *Brings her up to date on what he'd heard about their great-grandchildren (Arwen's kids)*
With their lifespan it wouldn't be any different than a human couple making a long distance move with one going ahead to get things ready while the other spends a few weeks tying up the loose ends in their old home.
In the unused LoTR epilogue (published in the _Sauron Defeated_ volume of HoME), Elanor asks about Celeborn and Sam says "I have learned that much from the Elves at any rate. They are not so troubled about time. And so I think Celeborn is still happy among his trees, in an Elvish way. His time hasn't come, and he isn't tired of his land yet. When he is tired he can go."
There's also the fact that despite being geographically distant, there is a lot of magic that allows them to converse as though in the same room. Most readers don't seem to understand how silly it is to try to apply the human condition to the Elves.
I believe the scholar KaydotLamar summed it quite succinctly. "They not like us." "They not like us."
Indeed.
@@tomfoolery5680😂😂😂😂😂 The line by the Scholar KDot is wild and so true 😂😂😂
Pretty much why I wasn't concerned about them being apart for like a century or two. That's like... just half a year to us.
I love your idea but she is LADY Galandriel not an average middle class wife going ahead in a long distance move.
The concept is perfect but your dialogue seems too mundane
Still love it tho😊
Most Elves one day: *I do not vibe with this universe…*
And yet you commented
Most people today...
I totally vibe with this universe, just not the society we are living in.
#notmymiddleearth (I was gonna say Arda but I checked myself, the Undying Lands are part of Arda, just removed after one of the apocalypses [going through the Silmarillion recently I came to realize just how many times Tolkien basically said "I don' t like this map, new server" and now Middle-Earth has a new west coast]).
Eventually they stop thinking
5:21 Yeah, that explains why elves are in a decline. When were the last days of peace and happiness in Middle Earth.
I had figured exceptions were made in ages after the Fourth Era. Elves do not bare children if they are involved in such times of strife, or that their days of peace are secluded to Valinor where they now reside exclusively. Though at the same time, this could be quite an allegory on Professor Tolkien’s part: If we drop our arms and cease, and return to days of unprecedented peace, the Elves will return again to the world.
Elves were ironically a big part of the reason there was despair and lack of peace and happiness in Middle Earth to begin with. They weren’t supposed to be there to begin with but were supposed to be in the undying lands. Feanor went against the Valars wishes who was envious of men that they would get dominion over Middle Earth (he felt everything should be dominated by the elves as they were the first born) and in defiance also decided to pursue Morgoth the first dark lord in disobedience to the Valar.
Due to this the noldor elves of Middle Earth were cursed by the Valar to never defeat Morgoth and suffer his wrath which not only brought on major pain and suffering to themselves but also to the world of men where as a newly born inexperienced race men immediately had a choice to make to choose either the side of the noldor elves or the dark lord Morgoth.
Thereby men were also cursed to endure the same suffering with much less experience, gifts or talents the elves had to draw on (not to mention the disease, decay and mortality they had to face as a byproduct of their life). The dark elves fate (elves of middle earth were called dark elves) was literally their doing whereas men never really had a choice in the matter except to choose the lesser of 2 evils in a fight they could never win. The Elves meanwhile could’ve avoided the whole thing by not being in Middle Earth to begin with.
@@susanrodriquez3757 Sounds like more Elf criticism. In fact, among other things, the Elves _were_ supposed to be in Middle Earth. Eru had a plan for them. They were kept in Valinor to be protected by Morgoth, who sought to dominate the world
@@teleportedbreadfor3days Elves have their flaws like men but with obviously more advantages, experience, and lack of decay in mind or body that men have to endure and a greater chance at wisdom and nobility through long years. Yes it absolutely was a critique. With great power comes great responsibility and it is quite obvious as the older brother of the children of lluvatar that the elves as individuals overall wield more power than their younger brothers in the world of Arda. Criticism is important because it is a reflection on how you could’ve been better but you make it sound like a bad thing when it isn’t.
However yes technically everything is by Eru Lluvatars plan because he adapts it accordingly. For example Aule created the dwarves but they were not initially supposed to be a creation because they aren’t supposed to be created without Erus permission. It was then Eru that gave them free will and a soul but warned Aule and said they would often be at odds with the children of lluvatar because of what Aule did. By the same vain this is similar to the elves in that Eru shifted and adopted the plan except that Feanor did it in defiance whereas Aule just wanted someone to teach his craft to and he apologized (which is why Aule was forgiven whereas the Noldor elves were cursed by the valars and Feanor to the very end never apologized).
Dominion of Middle Earth was initially supposed to be given to men with the undying lands given to the elves. This obviously became adapted differently by Eru when Feanor rebelled with great cost to both men and elves. Ultimately everything was rectified with Middle Earth given back to men in the end as Elves went back to the undying lands over time. This is also reflected somewhat in original sin. Adam and Eve were given the heavenly Garden of Eden. Now did God know man was going to commit sin and eat from the tree of knowledge? Yes and he set such plans accordingly. You can make this same argument about the elves of Middle Earth. The Noldor elves went against the original plan for elves committing sin. However due to giving them free will Eru knew it was going to happen and adapted his plans accordingly as he knows all things. In spite of this the dark elves of Middle Earth still had the free will and option not to commit sin the same way Adam and Eve had the option not to commit sin (a lot of this stuff while not exact is parallel as Tolkien was a Christian).
@@susanrodriquez3757 If elves were not supposed to be in Middle Earth, Eru Iluvatar would not have placed them there. The Valar were wrong to ever try to take them away. Ulmo was right to oppose Oromë's plan to bring the Elves to Aman.
"They are the fist born"*
*You know, if you ignore the dwarves. And assume that creation is not 'born'.
Orphans don’t count as kids
Very cool. It’s always interesting to think of a lifestyle that’s different than what is common to us. An in depth look into the elves, and how they grow up, and mate, is not really something that I knew about. I had wondered when they grow out of “adolescence”. Some of the stuff you go into, I at least have a cursory understanding of, but it’s always awesome getting more detail. However this subject was new to me, but like I said, something I had wondered about. Awesome!
They feel no lust : Shows the hottest elf babe ever
It’s actually extremely depressing to think about the plight of the elves. The gift of men becomes ever more precious in comparison
When I first read LOTR and got to the part about Círdan, I remember thinking "He has a beard! He must be REALLY, REALLY, REALLY old!"
Once, when I told a little four year old that my grandmother was 89 years old, his eyes got huge, and he said, "Wow! She must be really, really tall!"
@@witchhazel4135 Kid-logic is amazing sometimes! ^_^
I plan to stop shaving on my 10000th birthday too.
I remember my grandfather always saying that though it may appear otherwise, Men are in fact the favored children of Illuvatar, as it is to them that he gave his greatest gift: Freedom.
Elves are bound to the world and all it's pain and decay until it's ending and cannot escape it even in "death"; the Undying Lands are a respite but not a true escape. Whereas Men are given freedom from the world and it's pain through death.
Your grandfather sounds like a wise man.
Only if you believe that there is something beyond
It's funny how they envy each other. The elves envy the men because they receive the gift of death and escape from this world, and the men are jealous of elves because they have near immortality.
@@nemanjap8768Not at all. There is suffering when even turning into nothing is preferred more than existence.
@mikloscsuvar6097 never
That explains why the elves left Middle Earth during the Third Age. Having immortality would be a blessing, however they would feel the weight and sorrows since they are bound to the circles of the world.
This is why when my coworkers were joking that medical immortality could be obtained in our lifetime affordable by the 1% I internally despaired because I see how much the world weighs OK yhe
With Elves I am more a fan of fantasy in which they do not live forever. Maybe two- or three *thousand* years. Or like in D&D where they live _"only"_ for about 800 years or so.
This demigod like immortality of the "Tolkien Elves" never sat right with me.
I am by no means an envious person but I could not stand being a Human with actual knowledge in this world.
While I would never envious the Elves, seeing their potential would make me feel like an incomplete creation, a mockery, an NPC in my own life with Elves as the only maincharacters.
the only ones to not to be weighed down by passing years would probably be sociopaths...
Thank you for this! I find that most Tolkien’s channels like to cover the origins of elves, humans, and dwarves. However, this is the first telling I have seen on the life cycle of elves (companions to the others would be appreciated as well!). This helps me appreciate the sadness of immortality far better.
Great video. Earnestly appreciated.
Elf life in Nan Dungortheb is the same length as shelf life for Twinkies - eternity unless eaten.
I've always wanted to know more about Nerdanel. I can't begin to comprehend the strength of will she must have had. Not to bear 7 sons, but to put up with Feanor.
Talk about the "terrible twos"... except that it goes on for 1000 years. 😆
To be fair she gave up after his oath 🤣
Maybe that's why Feanor's mother refused to be re-embodied. She foresaw what would happen and couldn't bear to see it finally happen, and chose to remain safe in Mandos.
She does not get enough attention and love from the fandom. Feanor was definitely at his greatest while having Nerdanel by his side tempering his ego
Nah Nerdsnel was the brawn in the family, when the mood was on her she'd go into the forge and whack Feanor with his own hammer before dragging him to bed.
Many wondered at this but those close to Feanor whispered he enjoyed it greatly.
Every time I go into a LOTR phase (which happens a lot) I always rewatch all my faves from this channel. Thanks for these videos! The quality and style is so awesome
If only those men and numenoreans who yearned for the precious elf immortality knew that most of that time would be spent in the drudgery that is the halls of Mandos until its youre turn to be reincarnated.
"Dad said its my turn on the reincarnation"
The grass is always greener on the other side.
And even worse: after you're reincarnated, you have to go back to your wife!
@@jimbolambo103 and not have sex after 4 kids for an eternity. (even if you die and come back)
@@willclark4449 That may not be an 'or worse' for them. Perhaps they just simply don't have a desire or urge for sex. As a sex repulsed asexual I can totally understand not having any sexual urges or desires and can easily go months and years without sex. Or perhaps they have control over their bodies to the point that they can have sex without conceiving a child. Their bodies are different enough from humans that perhaps a female elf only releases an egg for fertilization when she and her husband wish to get pregnant.
I imagine that baby Elves are more like pixies. They can dance by the age of one, it'd be pretty hilarious if they were chubby little one year old babies at that point.
I can't imagine any elf in the history of the world was ever called 'chubby' 😂. As you say, if at one-yr-old they can dance, play and sing they're pretty developed, so like traditional Fairies-miniature people with a 3-5 year old's proportions.
Arondir is just one meal away from being chubby.
@@lhet8266 Who dat?
@@SoonGone Arondir, the elf from the LOTR Rings of Power series
Elvis marriages sound similar to Vulcan relationships 🤣
Vulcans are Star Trek's Elves for sure!
Elvis marriages are specifically in Las Vegas only. I don't see a connection at all
🤯🖖🤣🤣🤣🍻🧝♂️🧝♀️
Same race different genre
Finally, someone explained what it meant for an elf to fade. I had no idea that it literally meant the materializing into a spirit.
Immortality could be horrible losing someone you love or being a witness to the end of everything hearing the world go quiet.
Eventually you stop thinking
Do you not think that this occurs for some of us, already?
..so true. I am older now and luckily with few aches and pains, but I know very elderly people who mentally are razor sharp ,but their bodies are literally broken and full of pain.
Others i know have had their children pass away before them, sometimes tragically.
A long life is NOT necessarily a blessing. The pain both physical and mental can be an anguish.
Can you please stop using those absolutlely soulless, streile AI pictures? They really spoil the whole clip for me.
Thanks for the video! My weekend treat is rewatching the extended editions of LOTR 💜
Elves physical bodies fadeing in time is so cool because it matches elfs/alver in norse/germanic mythology
I’m reading the Silmarillion and this is going to clear up so much for me! Thanks❤
I would highly reccomend the Sisters of the Shire podcast. They went through the Silmarillion in small bits and made it easier for me to get the names and family trees straight in my head.
@@pharrigan-hikes thank you for the recommendation!
Feanors mom is the most interesting part of all of the textbook of the Silmarillion (besides Beren and Luthien, which is a true novel in and of itself!)
@@pharrigan-hikesoh that’s awesome thank you for that recommendation!
1:21 Now I know what the true gift of Iluvatar to men was.
I'm in the middle of reading the Silmarillion, which is an obvious challenge, and I admit I haven't picked it up in a while, but I know that when I finish It will have been worth reading. How long did it take you to finish it?
I tried reading it a couple of times, but couldn't get through it. Then I listened to it as an audiobook, got through it just fine and love it.
Tolkien created a truly amazing universe. I’m always in awe every time I read his work.
The elves loyalty to each other is something only written in Tolkiens books. I wish humans learned from such writings.
"elves have very few children. Only about twice as many children as families nowadays have." xD
Then he says 7, so people are having 3.5 children now?
How are they getting the .5 childre.... Actually, I don't wanna know.
@@scubasteve7850 He said 4, then noted that one elf pair had 7 as a rare exception.
@@novacorponline lol I didn't catch that, I was making salsa while listening to the video
Urban people nowadays have very, very few children. :)
To be fair, if they had children as often as modern humans did (2-3 in a lifespan of 80 years?) the world would be covered by elves.
Much love from Canada, sincerely your highest viewing non patreon viewer 🎉🎉🎉
Hello fellow Canuck! 🖖😎🤘🇨🇦. I made a joke comparing Elves and Vulcan relationships 🤣
Interesting how D&D elves share the century long maturity with their Tolkien inspiration.
Yall oughta make a video on the influence of Tolkien on modern fantasy, and the ensuing lawsuit with Dungeons and Dragons
Maglor was probably one who faded as he wandered Middle Earth singing laments after the first age was concluded.
This is an interesting concept on the Elf Life Cycle. Also, knowing what happens to them in spirit, it would be great to know where spirits of both Elves and Men go to when they die. Perhaps a video on the afterlife for men and elves and how they differ or share similarities is something worth looking into.
It'd be a pretty short video - not even the Valar know where the spirits of Men go after death, only Eru Iluvatar knows. For the elves, the Halls of Mandos could be discussed, but ultimately the fate of the elves is linked with the fate of the world.
Men go to Eru to be consumed as his food. Why else would he essentially create a wildlife reserve that gave him an endless supply of souls? Do you really think an omnipotent being would like spending time with the 93737th illiterate dirt farmer? Valar and the Elves were the game wardens, Morgoth and Sauron just went in and spoiled the herd so he had to intervene
Its like Christmas morning every time I get the notification of a new NotR upload! 🥳
I don't want to say that this "humanises" the Elves, because of course not, but... this makes the Elves a lot more understandable and relatable in terms of their lives than otherwise, etc.
I agree
Great topic. Loved this. I must say, though, there seems enough reason in Tolkien's original intro and prologue in LOTR to believe that Elladan and Elrohir sailed away on the same ship as Celeborn and Cirdan.
Could you do a history of eregion next
Wait…if they are pregnant for one year, and their age is calculated from the day of conception that means they are born 1 year old. You said they could speak at 1 year old. So can they talk after birth? That’s gotta be freaky right?
10:53 I like how that's just Link
It appears to me that Tolkien’s elves share quite a bit with the Nephilim from the extra biblical texts.
Extended life spans, powers beyond mortal men, their spirits forced to remain within the world itself until the end of days. Their spirits being invisible and yet having the ability to speak directly into a man’s mind. They seem to be concerned with the Kings and/or leaders of their own kind far more than their God’s desires. They are self important and feel superior to mortal men.
I believe as much as Tolkien claims to dislike allegory, his overall cosmology shares quite a bit with our world if you removed the Trinity God persons. The love of the created over the love of the creator permeates his writing.
I enjoy his writing but I cannot help but see the truth about his world and cosmology.
That’s dark but in an older video you said that all of the children of illuvatar will take part in the second music even the dwarfs on your third video on morgoth.
Bound to this World, of the Stars
I often wondered why the elves, being immortal, wouldn't just have like 1000 kids.
This is an element of Tolkien's writing that I have the most trouble accepting. Men and elves are supposed to be of a kind, not one being objectly better than the other, but that's just not the case. Men live, toil all our lives, then die with very little control over anything. Elves if not outright immortal might as well be, and they have so much more control over their fate, occasionally coming back from death itself. And in their thousands of years, they experience all there is to experience, seek out far greater mastery than any human could match in any field. Oh but humans get a mystery ending, evening things out! Well, so do elves! So in what way are men on par or better than elves? Besides breeding quicker, I see nothing to even the two races out.
A classic critique there.
If it makes you feel better though Men have a capacity for growth lacking in the Elves. The knife ears peaked in Valinor a land not their's and when Morgoth whispers that all they built is but leftovers the Valar gave them... well he's not too far off. When they strike off on their own? They fail utterly in what's no more than a long season. The glories of Beleriand are trumped up hillforts squatting on Thingol's land. And when the War of Wrath comes it is not the exiles that join in... it's men.
Men never give up the fight.
And it is men who make the greatest nation on the face of Arda. They don't sit on their island they sail from the sunset to the dawn. And even as they fall to darkness their strength waxes until such was their might that not even the One Ring could keep Sauron's forces from fleeing before the might of Numenor.
And yet their greatest days lie before them still.
@@blacksage2375 That's an interesting point you make. Essentially that elves peaked a long time ago, and given all their natural gifts, they never really tapped all their potential.
I see a new Nerd of the Rings video, I click it. Always great content, thank you so much.
In other words, Tolkien made elves as perfect Catholics 😉
Does anybody know where I can find all these amazing songs playing in the background? Specially the sad violin at 8:06. Thanks.
And what about fate of man and Gift of Ilúvatar? Nice topic for the new video, I guess.
No one knows the Fate of Men after passing. Maybe Manwë and Mandos know, but they do not tell.
Ayep, killed me mum.
The first kinslaying before the first kinslaying.
Since the conception of elf children requires a greater share of their strength of being in mind and body, I wonder how it may have been different for Aragorn and Arwen. Did only Arwen give so much of herself and not Aragorn? Additional, I wonder how long Arwen carried the children. 9 or 12 months?
Those children were humans not elfs, and conceived after she had chosen to be a mortal, hence 9 months
@@JudgeMagikarpHalf-elves and most likely they could no longer choose where they belong.
@@vksasdgaming9472 Aragorn and Arwen's children are not counted as Half-elves.
The term ""half-elf" only applies to the offspring of Elves and Men, and to descendants of such unions who had the gift of Choice.
Despite being children of a Half-elf, Eldarion and his sisters were mere Men; Dúnedain, but just Men - for their mother Arwen was no longer as she was before making the Choice.
@@leonardofaber5823 They were still half-elves as Arwen was one of eldar. She was three-quarters elf though. Eldarion and others just lacked choice previous children like they had.
@@vksasdgaming9472 it matters not who Arwen was: after her Choice she was, for all intents and purposes, of the Men. So her Children, despite havin elven blood from both mother and father, were also of the Men.
Her children are not counted as Half-elves, but rather as Dúnedain from the restored bloodline.
So Elves are not immortal, they are _ageless._ Which is not the same thing.
Well, nope in my opinion they're immortals. They can live always, a exeption if they are kill.
There is no source that reveals Cirdan’s origin, but yeah it is most likely he was born in Cuivienen
should do a more detailed video on the sundering of the elves, the YT and everything that went on during that time.
Can someone tell me the name of the beautiful string music?
actually i finally found it
ua-cam.com/video/zel2YtKOYTo/v-deo.html
This Video Was so well done! You Honor Tolkien's memory with this video Matt!
Very well written. Thank you!
It's more difficult for Elves to bear children? Wow. Elves are noble and self-sacrificing enough as it is. Ol' Eru should have at least eased their motherly burdens.
He saved it for men.
@@valentinkambushev4968 The more selfish and potentially evil of the two species. Wow, that's fair.
It's also a way to prevent overpopulating the world with being of immor- *ahem* "serial longevity"
@@KingOfSciliy I can understand that. But why can't Eru trust the wisdom of His First-Born, and just have faith that they can control their own population for the best?
@@colinbaldwin313 He said that it took more effort of mind, will, and body, not that it was more painful. One possibility is that they simply had so much stamina it would take a very long time and a lot of effort for them to achieve a climax. Or they may have had a much narrower window of fertility and/or a longer menstrual cycle. These all lead to a situation where it would make the bearing of children require much more intentional effort or planning.
Happy Boink Day!
I got my lores mixed up at the end and thought you were making a pun ("... the world made anew."). One of the primordial deities in the Elder Scrolls games is Anu, the primordial force of order and stasis. One in-game sect's interpretation of their origin leads them to believe that they are destined to unmake the world to return to a state of changelessness (you can't have change if you don't have things that can change), thereby making the world Anu.
In the passage in Morgoth's Ring (Laws & Customs Among the Eldar), the 'years' referred to (after the first 3), are likely the 9.58 : 1 rate of 'Tree Years' (See, e.g., Finarfin born in YT 1230, marries in YT 1280 (Annals of Aman) "The Eldar wedded for the most part in their youth and soon after their fiftieth year").
The ca. 1958 ageing scheme should probably not be tied into the later developed 'cycles of life', which have different schemes. In particular, the text in NoMe, 1 XIX: Elvish life-cycles (which has a 1 : 1 growth rate to 'maturity', then 144 : 1), dated to c. 1969+, and having 'youth renewals'; but also the 1965 1 XVIII Elvish Ages & Númenórean, which is 3 : 1 then 144 : 1, (full-growth at 72 (sun-years), 'youth' until 6,912, 'maturity' or 'standstill' until 13,896, then 'fading').
Trying to figure out how many years of the Sun equal one Valian Year makes my head spin.😵💫
I like one Valian Year = 9.58 years of the Sun. 144 years of the Sun equaling one Valerian Year is way too much, IMO.
@@Enerdhil 9.5862 IIRC.
The 144 is okay, as long as it is kept in context.
While Tolkien suggested in one place that it could just be put into the Annals, he seems to have realized that was problematic, as he started reworking the dates to accomodate that (e.g. NoMe 1 XIII, and some other 'hints' in some of the later 'ageing' texts). Unfortunately he did not finish it.
@@Tar-Elenion
I'd say "fortunately" he didn't finish.😁
For most of us, around "10" makes the math really easy, so that is what I am going with. 😅👍🏻
@@Enerdhil I would not say fortunately, since he was breaking it down by _loa_ within the _yen_ (unlike the Annals), e.g. VY 865/1 Awaking of Quendi. (I would however give it up for a complete revised Tuor...).
When referring to The Annals of Aman, I maintain the 9.5862 is what should be used, as that is the context it was written in. Just putting the 144 into it leads to absurdities like 40000 year old Luthien or 20000 year old Aredhel.
@@Tar-Elenion
That makes sense. I just never understood why he thought changing the conversion rate of Valian Years to Years of the Sun made sense at such a ridiculously high number.
You mentioned Tuor would benefit from the 144 rate. How so?
4:14 Wait Wait Wait Wait Why?
Very fitting to have this video with Frieren's popularity 😀
I thought they hatched out of the pumpkin patch
Where was Gondor when Cirdan grew a beared?
Ngl i don't see why the elves can't just keep their physical bodies?, that along with the sinking of beleriand are by far my least favourite parts of Tolkien's world building
Well aside from getting close to zero info on the east and south of middle earth
Because all the Middle-Earth is Morgoth's Ring. All matter in Arda is tainted by his corruption, with the exception of that which is in Aman. The longer you're exposed, that harder it is for fëa to be in union with hröa. Fëa is pure and comes from the Secret Fire of Ilúvatar, but hröa is made of the matter of Arda.
NO JUST NO!!!@@tick095
@@alfieingrouille1528What?
What music list are you using for these videos?
This is why I said Galadriel in RoP is in dangerous waters forgetting about her husband in season 1. If she were to remarry she would be essentially divorcing him for eternity. That’s why episode 7 is so interesting.
My view of elves in LOTR has completely changed! Tolkien has brought so much depth to us, and of course, it is so well presented in this video! Marvelous work, Nerd of the Rings! Also, if possible, could you share which score is used in this video, especially in the second half? Thank you and, again, excellent work!
I personally believe that the elves would be part of that second world, but that it would be men, not elves who would be the ones to save them, perhaps in the second singing to Illuvatar.
I can imagine that, the elves at rhe end of the Dagor Dagorsth, join their voices to the new song of creation, untouched by discord this time, that creates the new world. And thus their Souls are bound to this new world.
"Elves are seldom swayed by desires of the body or influenced by lust" WAIT A MINUTE, were elves actually a race of (kinda) asexual beings all along? HOW COME I ONLY LEARN ABOUT THIS NOW?! Ok aces, we're integrating elves in our plan for Danemark takeover.
0:45 One hundred forty-four? One gross, you might say? Interesting.
Thought the same... But Tolkien did not know of population genetics, and how many people are needed to maintain a healthy population, or he would have awoken a few more elves 🤣
@@anni.68 indeed
Perhaps I should clarify: Bilbo invited 144 people to his birthday party. Interesting that this number reappears at what is essentially the beginning of the end.
I picture the Elves who stayed in Middle-Earth to be like Faeries. Their forms are so withered, that they seem small and almost invisible.
Love you bro
I'm seeing a parallel between how the earth affects the Eldar and how the One Ring affected those who wore it. Perhaps in forging it, Sauron captured some of the spirit of Arda itself, binding it with his own will. Thus, the Ring(and by extension, Sauron) and the Eldar would be two sides of the same coin; the elves accepting Arda as it comes and Sauron attempting to dominate and shackle it.
As a side note regarding Elves spending the second epoch of their life striving for art and knowledge: I recently started making a visual timeline of Arda and its key events and what surprised me is just how old feanor was when he created the silmarils - Maybe I'm alone in this thinking, but I expected him to have done so while relatively young (for an elf) but in truth Feanor created the silmarils when he was already 3000 years old and it would be over 1000 years before their eventual "destruction" and the sinking of Beleriand.
Can someone give me the name of the music at the end of the video. It souds so good pls !
And for those elves who choose to marry men, a time of joy, followed by a parting, and in a way elves wouldn't normally feel, as the soul of man sails beyond the world, to a place where his loves soul can never follow, so long as the world endures.
Elves become mortal when they wed Men, so they share the same fate- Luthien and Arwen will never see their families again, hence the pain of their choice to their fathers.
And as the elf pupa struggles to free itself from its cocoon, something wonderful happens: the small, fuzzy worm had transformed into a glittering adult.
David Attenborough probably said that.
Elves become more beautiful as they age according to the Silmarillion
That would explain Geladrial.
@@Parawhiskey Yes, I don't remember if she was used as an example but she is one of the oldest elves having lived during the time of the 2 trees.
Elves have a Middle Earth skip trick!!!
(Illuvitar/Being Immortal). They can go to Valinor and instantly come be back to life.
Ex: Haldir in Two Towers dies.
(He’s waiting to come back)
Can someone please confirm? Does or can this happen given the Tolkien lore?
Heard this somewhere or read on reddit a while back.
I can only guess that it's not without its own drawbacks.
@@jantjarks7946 yes
Glorfindel died in The Two Towers?
@@dlxmarksSrry. I had the two mixed up. Its supposed to be “Haldir,” instead of “Glorfindel.”
Glorfindel fought a Balrog in Gondolin. Haldir died it two towers.
Glorfindel has some immortal reincarnation Illuvatar trick.
There is a clue to the ultimate fate of the Elves in the fourth paragraph of the Ainulindalë: "...Never since have the Ainur made any music like to this music, though it has been said that a greater still shall be made before Ilúvatar by the choirs of the Ainur and the Children of Ilúvatar after the end of days. Then the themes of Ilúvatar shall be played aright, and take Being in the moment of their utterance, for all shall then understand fully his intent in their part, and each shall know the comprehension of each, and Ilúvatar shall give to their thoughts the secret fire, being well pleased." This paragraph states plainly "The Children of Ilúvatar" - i.e. Elves and Men. Later on, Eru "adopted" the Dwarves, granting them feä: "....For they say that Aulë the Maker, whom they call Mahal, cares for them, and gathers them to Mandos in halls set apart; and that he declared to their Fathers of old that Ilúvatar will hallow them and give them a place among the Children in the End. Then their part shall be to serve Aulë and to aid him in the remaking of Arda after the Last Battle."
Chapter II of the Silmarillion also implies that the Great Eagles, and the Ents and Entwives, are also gifted with feä: "...Then Manwë awoke, and he went down to Yavanna upon Ezellohar, and he sat beside her beneath the Two Trees. And Manwë said: "O Kementári, Eru hath spoken, saying: "Do then any of the Valar suppose that I did not hear all the Song, even the least sound of the least voice? Behold! When the Children awake, then the thought of Yavanna will awake also, and it will summon spirits from afar, and they will go among the kelvar and the olvar, and some will dwell therein, and be held in reverence, and their just anger shall be feared. For a time: while the Firstborn are in their power, and while the Secondborn are young." But dost thou not now remember, Kementári, that thy thought sang not always alone? Did not thy thought and mine meet also, so that we took wing together like great birds that soar above the clouds? That also shall come to be by the heed of Ilúvatar, and before the Children awake there shall go forth with wings like the wind the Eagles of the Lords of the West."
Then Yavanna was glad, and she stood up, reaching her arms towards the heavens, and she said: "High shall climb the trees of Kementári, that the Eagles of the King may house therein!"
But Manwë rose also, and it seemed that he stood to such a height that his voice came down to Yavanna as from the paths of the winds. "Nay," he said, "only the trees of Aulë will be tall enough. In the mountains the Eagles shall house, and hear the voices of those who call upon us. But in the forests shall walk the Shepherds of the Trees."
It is my interpretation of these passages that Tolkien's intent, is that after the Dagor Dagorath, all of the "speaking peoples" granted life by the grace of Eru - Elves, Men, Hobbits, Dwarves, Ents, and the Great Eagles - shall join the Ainur in the Second Music and recreate Arda as it should have been. And in that moment, when Arda Marred is finally undone, Bombadil and Goldberry will "rejoin the family" and lend their voices to the Music, too.
Eh...i'd still choose to be an elf.
I do wonder if Id have no anxiety if i had the rest of eternity to get things done....id also think id be a ridiculously lazy elf....
"what? Take out the trash? I promise I'll do it before the end of the century..."
I think they're getting married basically right out of puberty because its a medieval society and they are super bored since entertainment on demand isn't possible.
There's probably an entire section in the library of Rivendell dedicated to keeping things exciting in the sack after umteen-thousand years.
do you read the song of ice and fire?
Can you talk about elf/men relationship like friends , love those stuff
I would love to see a clever elf child in Rings of Power.
What if the end of the Elves is to become Maiar and Valar? While men go on to follow the path of Eru Iluvatar, Elves, ever bound to mortal realms, become gods of the earths.
so i got about minute into this...and have a question... it's said the other ages years equate differently in other ages... u said they are carried for a year... is that a third age year or a year from back when they "emerged"???
This was one of the few things I did not knew about Tolkien’s world. Thank u ❤️
Excellent video! Great summation of the Elven life-cycle.
My only question was the meaning of 50 and 100 years. Were those Valian Years or Years of the Sun?🤔
@@Enerdhil It's Years of the Sun. Elrond was at the Fall of Thangorodrim and that was only around 50 Years of the Sun after he was born.
@@istari0
Elrond was never alive during the so-called Valian Years, so of course in his case it is Years of the Sun.
How about Galadriel? If those 50 and 100 years are Years of the Sun, then she would have reached her Third Cycle of Life in Eldamar according to Matt's interpretation of Tolkien's very confusing Life Cycles of Elves. Did Galadriel reach her Third Cycle of Life at all?🤔
@@Enerdhil We know the 1st Cycle ends after around 100 years. As far as I recall, I don't remember there being a clear definition of how long the 2nd cycle lasts. And Galadriel was nearly 3000 Years of the Sun younger than Círdan.
@@istari0
Based on what conversion rate? 9.59 Years of the Sun for one Valian Year or 144 Years of the Sun for one Valian Year?🤔
They were such glorious beings and now they work in the kitchens of Hogwarts! So sad.😭😱
Timey gets wimey when you can live forever.
Not to mention the wibbly wobbly
Im curious to know if the original orc/s feya went to the Halls of Mandos or not.
First born, even thou the dwarfs where born before them. and maybe even orcs.
Do Elves have pubic hair or, so too will it grow on their 3rd cycle like their beard?
So I'm literally watching FOTR right now and thought, how does Sauron not at least keep in mind that the rings destruction was a possibility when it was the rings power that convinced isildur to leave Mt Doom and not destroy it? When he did find out it was too late but he should have already known
this was addressed in the stories. He fully believed that the corrupting power of the ring was so great, no mortal (and few immortals) could withstand it and therefore none would have the will to destroy it. None should even be willing to CONSIDER destroying it once they are under its sway. And he was very nearly right. Gandalf and Galadreil *barely* manage to turn down the offer to take the ring and both knew what it would do to them if they actually possessed it. Faramir is the ONLY man in history to be in a position to take the ring and actively choose to let it go. And the only bearers of the ring to willingly give it up were Bilbo (who still was tempted by it later) and Sam. AND in the end, the ring is not destroyed willingly. Neither Frodo nor Gollum wanted to destroy it once they reached Mt. Doom. But in their struggle to possess it, Gollum fell and took it with him. So in that sense Sauron was not wrong, the "owner" of the ring did NOT try to destroy it. Like Isildur before him, Frodo had the will to bring it to the Crack of Doom, but then the ring's power proved to strong and he turned away.
Tolkien apparently did not know the earth was billions of years old -- or at least, he chose to reflect a biblical age in his writings as a literary choice -- so his statements about elves and Arda strike modern audiences much differently than he intended.
1 year of the trees of pregnancy =144 solar years
In some of his variants he had very long pregnancies. He seems to have abandoned that in the later ones.
An elf episode that focuses on a part of their physiology. nice. Im willing the bet that this is going to be one of many.
Young Brenda Smith Charles Robinson Matthew