Moi Gen! Oletko viihtynyt suomessa hyvin? Miksi japanilaiset maahanmuuttajat sopeutuvat niin hyvin suomeen? Oletko ajatellut, että vertaisit omia kokemuksia toisen maalaiseen maahanmuuttajaan? Johtuuko se kulttuurista, kasvatuksesta tai jostain muusta syystä? .... muuten kiitos hauskoiska videoista!
Terve, herra Hoshikawa! Olen suomalainen ja tämä video oli todella kiinnostava katsoa. Yritän pitää tämän lyhyenä, mutta sanon vaan, että selität hyvin perspektiivistäsi ja videotasi oli hauska katsoa. :D
Hello Mr. Yoshikawa. I was really surprised to learn that Japan uses paper so much and does not rely on electronic services. It's good to have archives, but that sure takes time! You have a great channel. Please keep up the good work!
Fascinating! I'm new to your channel. I'm Finnish, but I spent a year in Japan as an exchange student when I was in high school. I remember the bureaucracy in Japan and how surprised I was by it because Japan in my mind was (and is!) so modern. I'd love to hear about the other topics you mentioned some other time. ^^
Thank you for watching and welcome! Nice to hear you somehow found my channel. I'm sure the high school you studied in Japan was quite different from Finnish high school but hope it was good experience for you:)
I would like to express the rarely mentioned point that in Finnish companies there is often an invisible hierarchy that is not formally expressed in titles or salary. It might be that an engineer in the QA department is practically higher up in rank than the director in the R&D department because the CEO that makes the actual decisions knows the QA engineer personally and trusts his judgement. In other words there are favorites that are higher up in the hierarchy than their titles might say. I don't know if that's the case in Japanese companies if the pyramid structure in a Japanese organization basically prevents the staff from talking directly with the managers.
I think difference between salary and food, alcohol cost is bigger in Japan than in Finland, so it more easy to treat friends. Taxes are much higher in Finland, especially on spirits. Good way to treat friends in Finland is to go all-you-can-eat buffet, because then can treat friend a fixed fee and not need to worry about different bills. I see buffet meals are super popular because they are advertised everywhere.
That sounds somewhat controversial imo. Because Finnish defense forces has been said to have affected finnish companies and workplaces hugely(because most adult males complete conscription). And armies have very hierarchical structruses. But it is true in Finland the bosses do less "bossing around" and let the employees do their thing and interfere only if neccesary. And like in army it is seen that every task is important to the mission so there is less looking down at people "below you" on some hierarchical scale. Probrably ultimatelly most is to do with simple cultural difference(s) between european and asian countries.
@@alainerookkitsunev5605 I have not read studies on the subject; I have read some people's personal claims. Also different armies the hierarchical structures differ. In a Finnish military group, leaders go first; they lead ahead. At least I have not noticed military-style leading in workplaces and frankly, I do not see that it would fit well. That could have been old-style leading at some point before I joined the workforce- I have heard that it also in Finland used to be more "stuck up". At least in all the workplaces, I have worked I have not noticed strong hieracy. Bosses and C0 have eaten with me even when I was in summer jobs and while I was in civil service. Maybe the most hierarchy that I have noticed has been in hospitals, but even there I was eating often with some of the doctors when I was there doing my civil service. I think in Finland, at least in my case, my opinions have been heard, and can talk freely about whatever position the other person held in the workplace. @Alaine Rook Kitsunev "But it is true in Finland the bosses do less "bossing around" and let the employees do their thing and interfere only if necessary." Mostly yes, there are also of course bad bosses. If the boss does interfere, that does not mean here that he will have the last word ;) @Alaine Rook Kitsunev "And like in army it is seen that every task is important to the mission so there is less looking down at people "below you" on some hierarchical scale." I am not so sure that comes from the army. I think that it comes more from society. @Alaine Rook Kitsunev "Probrably ultimatelly most is to do with simple cultural difference(s) between european and asian countries." Could be. I think that Finns on average see people on quite an even playing field. First European nation that gave women the right to vote, low GINI, etc. Some European nations seem to have a much more "class" style of thinking, aristocracy, etc. Maybe that comes also from history; for a long time "leaders and highest-ranking people" were not Finns.
@@alainerookkitsunev5605 yes, there is still a hierarchy of responsibility. Its just put aside for casual talk and people dont look up or down on others. When things get serious, everybody knows their hierarchical role (responsibility, duty) and performs it. No need for frivolous display of hierarchy. Not much bossing around is needed.
About hierarchy - we are all different yet equal. I could see myself in christmas party with collegues and supervisor/employer/manager having a mundane conversation, calling each other by first name and if we were same gender going to sauna too.
on the 3rd point, we here in Finland have acknowledged that no matter your "position or role in society" you might still have slightly different way of thinking than the rest that might come to different reasons, problems and solutions that work better than the obvious ones. So everyone is valued up to a point and I love that about us and the fact that we deeper than the skin (sauna has taught us well on that) we tend to be great at judging characters.
Thank you for bringing up the hierarchy. As I have understood it, it's not just in work places but schools, clubs and other social situations as well in Japan where one has to behave according to his or her position and nobody is equal to most of the others. That is one aspect I don't like about Japanese society (like a councilman might get or expect some special treatment in a public café just because of his position or a secondary school student getting punished for talking in the same style to his teacher as he would to his friend). That kind of hierarchy and formality should have no place in a modern-day democratic society.
Japanese bureaucracy was a big problem during the pandemic as everything official still requires your official stamp. Even if japan was to build all the services online, you still have to physically go to the office to put your stamp on the papers. Here you can just use your banking details to confirm your identity at kela/vero/posti and basically do everything online. At finland we also pay with both, cash and CARD. At japan there are many places that accept cash only, which can be an inconvenience for the foreign people who expect to pay everything with the card. At finland men usually only pay for the women on the dates (and even more at the divorce! :D) but it's not uncommon for the friends to offer each others drinks every now and then. But that's usually as far as it goes, we don't pay for others foods for example without a good enough reason.
I'm asking you. What you do. You illuminate the Kultuuri differences between different cultures. You Young People. You have an open eye to see the world as people. More young people who have that opportunity can do the same. Thank you internet, although there is still room for improvement. Therefore. Tell the young people about this. Through you, we get a more open-minded world.
In my view the customs of the geographical area should be respected and I would take it as granted to follow Japanese way of paying while in Japan. The culture shouldn't bend itself for outsiders' views or special needs, which I find strange and unfortunate if it happens.
Wen me and My husband 1mett hi wood Pay coffe Ore the dinner ore a hotell weekend togheter Butt after somtime i wonted to Pay 50/50. often now i Pay My coffe somtimes hi Will say i Will pay gour coffe Butt gou now after 7years and 10.5 years togheter we Pay 50/50
But how are they as co-workers? Do they also concepts of 建前 and 本音? 内 and 外？ Are immigrants forever outsiders? Do you have a voice in the workplace? Do you have to just deal with being outcasted? Do you have to bend over and do small talks and forge connections so you don't get mistreated?! Sorry. I'm an exhausted foreigner in Japan and I just want to move to Finland and float in some river or lake somewhere during my day off. I would totally flip if I ended up moving to Finland and if it ended up no different from Japan. Sorry. I don't have anybody else to ask.
If you ask someone out for a date, then you are expected to pay, especially if you are a man. (Women rarely ask men out on a date, especially in Finland). Regular asking someone for a coffee it is usually expected to pay seperatelly, but i have never heard anyone complain if i or someone else offers to pay your coffee and a cupcake for example. That sounded very wierd imo. Maybe the Finnish girl wanted to show she is strong and independent by paying her coffee wich sounds more than a bit silly in a number of ways.
I have and would have objected if I know that the person who is offering to pay has tight finances. As a student I would have been uncomfortable if fellow students would have paid for me as I knew they would not have a lot of money. It would have seem greedy. Later in life that has changed a bit, since most work and I know it is not a burden for them to pay for my coffee etc. But I also would be offering to pay for their drinks and food next time, again it would seem greedy, if one person would always be the one paying.
Hyvä video😆👍
Moi Gen! Oletko viihtynyt suomessa hyvin? Miksi japanilaiset maahanmuuttajat sopeutuvat niin hyvin suomeen? Oletko ajatellut, että vertaisit omia kokemuksia toisen maalaiseen maahanmuuttajaan? Johtuuko se kulttuurista, kasvatuksesta tai jostain muusta syystä? .... muuten kiitos hauskoiska videoista!
Tein tehtäväni sotilaana ja tulin sanomaan hei Daikille
Kiitos paljon Gen-san!
Terve, herra Hoshikawa! Olen suomalainen ja tämä video oli todella kiinnostava katsoa. Yritän pitää tämän lyhyenä, mutta sanon vaan, että selität hyvin perspektiivistäsi ja videotasi oli hauska katsoa. :D
Hello Mr. Yoshikawa. I was really surprised to learn that Japan uses paper so much and does not rely on electronic services. It's good to have archives, but that sure takes time! You have a great channel. Please keep up the good work!
Thank you! Yes, and FYI, they still use cash A LOT! haha
Fascinating! I'm new to your channel. I'm Finnish, but I spent a year in Japan as an exchange student when I was in high school. I remember the bureaucracy in Japan and how surprised I was by it because Japan in my mind was (and is!) so modern.
I'd love to hear about the other topics you mentioned some other time. ^^
Thank you for watching and welcome! Nice to hear you somehow found my channel. I'm sure the high school you studied in Japan was quite different from Finnish high school but hope it was good experience for you:)
I would like to express the rarely mentioned point that in Finnish companies there is often an invisible hierarchy that is not formally expressed in titles or salary. It might be that an engineer in the QA department is practically higher up in rank than the director in the R&D department because the CEO that makes the actual decisions knows the QA engineer personally and trusts his judgement. In other words there are favorites that are higher up in the hierarchy than their titles might say. I don't know if that's the case in Japanese companies if the pyramid structure in a Japanese organization basically prevents the staff from talking directly with the managers.
That's interesting to know. Thanks for sharing it with us!
It's crazy how antiquated Japanese bureaucracy is when in other things automation seems to be so commonplace.
I think difference between salary and food, alcohol cost is bigger in Japan than in Finland, so it more easy to treat friends. Taxes are much higher in Finland, especially on spirits. Good way to treat friends in Finland is to go all-you-can-eat buffet, because then can treat friend a fixed fee and not need to worry about different bills. I see buffet meals are super popular because they are advertised everywhere.
Great video! Had not thought so much about how companies don't have much hierarchy in Finland. Now as I think of it, it seems more clear.
Thank you! Yes that's one thing I like about working here :)
That sounds somewhat controversial imo. Because Finnish defense forces has been said to have affected finnish companies and workplaces hugely(because most adult males complete conscription). And armies have very hierarchical structruses. But it is true in Finland the bosses do less "bossing around" and let the employees do their thing and interfere only if neccesary. And like in army it is seen that every task is important to the mission so there is less looking down at people "below you" on some hierarchical scale. Probrably ultimatelly most is to do with simple cultural difference(s) between european and asian countries.
@@alainerookkitsunev5605 I have not read studies on the subject; I have read some people's personal claims. Also different armies the hierarchical structures differ. In a Finnish military group, leaders go first; they lead ahead. At least I have not noticed military-style leading in workplaces and frankly, I do not see that it would fit well. That could have been old-style leading at some point before I joined the workforce- I have heard that it also in Finland used to be more "stuck up". At least in all the workplaces, I have worked I have not noticed strong hieracy. Bosses and C0 have eaten with me even when I was in summer jobs and while I was in civil service. Maybe the most hierarchy that I have noticed has been in hospitals, but even there I was eating often with some of the doctors when I was there doing my civil service.
I think in Finland, at least in my case, my opinions have been heard, and can talk freely about whatever position the other person held in the workplace.
@Alaine Rook Kitsunev "But it is true in Finland the bosses do less "bossing around" and let the employees do their thing and interfere only if necessary."
Mostly yes, there are also of course bad bosses. If the boss does interfere, that does not mean here that he will have the last word ;)
@Alaine Rook Kitsunev "And like in army it is seen that every task is important to the mission so there is less looking down at people "below you" on some hierarchical scale."
I am not so sure that comes from the army. I think that it comes more from society.
@Alaine Rook Kitsunev "Probrably ultimatelly most is to do with simple cultural difference(s) between european and asian countries."
Could be. I think that Finns on average see people on quite an even playing field. First European nation that gave women the right to vote, low GINI, etc. Some European nations seem to have a much more "class" style of thinking, aristocracy, etc. Maybe that comes also from history; for a long time "leaders and highest-ranking people" were not Finns.
@@alainerookkitsunev5605 yes, there is still a hierarchy of responsibility. Its just put aside for casual talk and people dont look up or down on others. When things get serious, everybody knows their hierarchical role (responsibility, duty) and performs it. No need for frivolous display of hierarchy. Not much bossing around is needed.
About hierarchy - we are all different yet equal. I could see myself in christmas party with collegues and supervisor/employer/manager having a mundane conversation, calling each other by first name and if we were same gender going to sauna too.
Good point, thanks for sharing it :)
on the 3rd point, we here in Finland have acknowledged that no matter your "position or role in society" you might still have slightly different way of thinking than the rest that might come to different reasons, problems and solutions that work better than the obvious ones. So everyone is valued up to a point and I love that about us and the fact that we deeper than the skin (sauna has taught us well on that) we tend to be great at judging characters.
Very interesting! Thanks for sharing.
Thank you for watching!
Hello Daiki. Takagi Gen told to come say hi to you so hi. And I find your videos interesting so I'm a new subscriber
Thank you for visiting and subscribing!! :)
Thank you for bringing up the hierarchy. As I have understood it, it's not just in work places but schools, clubs and other social situations as well in Japan where one has to behave according to his or her position and nobody is equal to most of the others. That is one aspect I don't like about Japanese society (like a councilman might get or expect some special treatment in a public café just because of his position or a secondary school student getting punished for talking in the same style to his teacher as he would to his friend). That kind of hierarchy and formality should have no place in a modern-day democratic society.
Thanks for that unique perspective....really enjoyed your commentary.
Thank you for watching! :)
I don't know if you've been told already but your countryman Gen Takagi has stayed here for several years.
great info. I live your point of view !!!!!
Japanese bureaucracy was a big problem during the pandemic as everything official still requires your official stamp. Even if japan was to build all the services online, you still have to physically go to the office to put your stamp on the papers. Here you can just use your banking details to confirm your identity at kela/vero/posti and basically do everything online. At finland we also pay with both, cash and CARD. At japan there are many places that accept cash only, which can be an inconvenience for the foreign people who expect to pay everything with the card. At finland men usually only pay for the women on the dates (and even more at the divorce! :D) but it's not uncommon for the friends to offer each others drinks every now and then. But that's usually as far as it goes, we don't pay for others foods for example without a good enough reason.
I'm asking you. What you do. You illuminate the Kultuuri differences between different cultures. You Young People. You have an open eye to see the world as people. More young people who have that opportunity can do the same. Thank you internet, although there is still room for improvement. Therefore. Tell the young people about this. Through you, we get a more open-minded world.
Gen Takagi sent me here. :)
Thank you and Gen! :)
In my view the customs of the geographical area should be respected and I would take it as granted to follow Japanese way of paying while in Japan. The culture shouldn't bend itself for outsiders' views or special needs, which I find strange and unfortunate if it happens.
Yes true
I've noticed some linguistic similarities between Japanese and Finnish
Good examples
Interesting
Sure I like your video!👍 Ureshi!😂
👍
Wen me and My husband 1mett hi wood Pay coffe Ore the dinner ore a hotell weekend togheter Butt after somtime i wonted to Pay 50/50. often now i Pay My coffe somtimes hi Will say i Will pay gour coffe Butt gou now after 7years and 10.5 years togheter we Pay 50/50
だいちゃん久しぶり！
ちょいちょい動画見させてもらってます！(最近ちょっと痩せた？？)
うちの会社もフラットであることのメリットを感じ出してて、ちょっと前からいろいろ取り組み出してるような感じです( ´ ∀ ` )
また動画楽しみにしてまーす✨
ありがとう！痩せてないわwおー、そうなんや、良い取り組みやなあ！
First Sucsribers
こんにちわ だいきーさん
ありがとうございます！
But how are they as co-workers? Do they also concepts of 建前 and 本音? 内 and 外？ Are immigrants forever outsiders? Do you have a voice in the workplace? Do you have to just deal with being outcasted? Do you have to bend over and do small talks and forge connections so you don't get mistreated?! Sorry. I'm an exhausted foreigner in Japan and I just want to move to Finland and float in some river or lake somewhere during my day off. I would totally flip if I ended up moving to Finland and if it ended up no different from Japan. Sorry. I don't have anybody else to ask.
Of course this doesn't apply to all people/all cases...
マレーシアに住んでた時はもっと上下関係厳しかったよ。韓国とか中国も。
韓国、中国は何となくわかる気がしますが、マレーシアもなんですね。意外です。
フィンランドでは後輩や女性の前でどうやってカッコつけるん？
たぶん、あんまりカッコつけないと思います。あ、一部の男性は筋肉とかじゃないですかねw
When in Rome, do as the Romans.
Suomi!
If you ask someone out for a date, then you are expected to pay, especially if you are a man. (Women rarely ask men out on a date, especially in Finland). Regular asking someone for a coffee it is usually expected to pay seperatelly, but i have never heard anyone complain if i or someone else offers to pay your coffee and a cupcake for example. That sounded very wierd imo. Maybe the Finnish girl wanted to show she is strong and independent by paying her coffee wich sounds more than a bit silly in a number of ways.
Well maybe we have different experience haha
I have and would have objected if I know that the person who is offering to pay has tight finances. As a student I would have been uncomfortable if fellow students would have paid for me as I knew they would not have a lot of money. It would have seem greedy. Later in life that has changed a bit, since most work and I know it is not a burden for them to pay for my coffee etc. But I also would be offering to pay for their drinks and food next time, again it would seem greedy, if one person would always be the one paying.