Three small things I still get confused in Finland
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- Опубліковано 20 чер 2024
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You csn always be casual with everyone in Finland. The only situation where you call someone "sir" or something is in the army. You can even call the president by his first name and he doesn't mind, because that's his name. I have never heard anyone in Finland thinking about the seating position in a party or something. All of us come from a working class background, there is no royalty.
Yeah, I was also going to mention how hierarchy really only matters in military settings (I served my conscription basically doing office work as a programmer, so I got good insight into that), everywhere else I can think of you can totally be casual.
Hell, even in the military things aren't always _that_ strict. Civilian employees, for instance, don't need to address military personnel with their titles in many cases.
Every one of us is just some little dude
We even call teachers by their first name. The president is basically a normal guy with a fancy title. My dad once saw him on the train!
@Sanna-Mary It's ope of firstname here
@Sanna-Mary No, he is "Sale" for us finns....Sauli is more formal😁
the fact that you called it "at least basic manners" and then gave out detailed instructions really speaks for how big the difference in culture is.
In finland, "basic manners" means don't be rude.
Remember that "don't be rude" means different things in different places.
In Norway, and I believe Finland, it's a little bit rude to sit down next to and start talking with a stranger without a reason.
Because we value our personal space.
In our busses you'll see 4 and 4 seats with a walkway between pairs.
But people will often prefer to stand rather than sitting down in a empty seat right next to a filled one, out of respect for that persons personal space and privacy.
In many other cultures standing like that *is* rude.
don't be rude: don't get too close to the other person, don't call them names and preferably listen when they're talking
@@Luredreier There was a confrontation between two of my peers as an army conscript, one native Finn and and another with Turkish immigrant background. Ultimately the issue was about manners and respect. One side interprets physical proximity as invasive and threatening, and keeping distance as respectful. The other sees proximity as an expression of friendship and distance as rejection. I'd like to think I was helpful in resolving the situation by interfering and giving an explanation.
@@no-bark2241 In plenty of cultures not getting close like that is very rude.
@@orbik_fin Well done.
And yeah, that kind of culture clashes are all too common...
Actually I think there is a translation issue with the word お土産 (omiage) to the word souvenir. The finnish word matkamuisto is a more closer term to souvenir, it is something you buy for yourself to remeber your trip, afterall someone else cannot remeber your trip for you.
The finnish term "tuliainen", derived from the term "tulla", is closer to the japanese term "omiage" as it is something you buy for other persons.
Tuliainen is usually given to other persons when you come visit them at home, for exaple I would buy "tuliaisia" when I would visit friends or family abroad or living further away. These would usually be some finnish goodies or things that you can not get locally at the place I am visiting.
Sure someone else cannot remember your trip for you BUT that is exactly the point. The point is that you the traveler would like to share your travels with your family or friends who were not able to join you. It's something to start the conversation about your travel. Sure the gift matters but its not all about it. Its about the experience and the story/conversation that would soon come with it in front of say coffee, tea or beer. Now, I am not Japanese but I think I can relate to the culture - I am from east asia too and I think we share this custom with the Japanese.
I mixed matkamuisto and tuliainen. Good to know, thanks for your opinion!
@@Ralph-ii4ji That's such a strange concept for me.
I don't live in Finland but in Norway.
Here if you want to talk about your trip you just do.
No gifts needed.
There's few restrictions about conversation topics in conversations.
@@Luredreier it's not about conversation. Obviously you can verbally share your travel experiences with anyone, no gifts required. The gift giving is related more to wanting to share an experience via offering a chance to experience it first hand. Thus; a tuliainen wouldn't be something very common in your own country or area of living, but instead something unique from your travels.
It's not common in Finland to bring homecoming gifts to a workplace, but it's always a nice surprise! And nobody is upset by that. That is a nice habit!
It also depends on workplace culture. In my department at work - where most of workers are women it is quite normal that people bring sweets or cookies to the office for colleagues to eat. It is normative, but it is nice thing to do. I've even served ice cream to my colleagues during the summer time. I don't know, who started it - but people like to do it. However I know it is not done everywhere - and it is totally voluntary.
Luckily being "too polite/respectful" is never considered bad/rude in Finland :)
For example when meeting high ranking person at work the first time it's okay to call they by Mr/Mrs/Ms/Dr [Surname], they often reply "please, you can say [First name]".
Similarly you can do this with elderly people by using "Te" (plural you) where you normally use "sinä" (singular you) and using their last name. They will then tell you to use their first name or "sinä".
Historically you were obligated to use these respectful references until the "higher ranking" person granted you permission to refer them as equal. This was called "sinunkaupat" as you was then allowed to use "sinä" instead of "te".
Nowadays you don't often wait until you get explicit permission to use "sinä" but you need to read the situation and see how your personal chemistry works. Or you just go with "sinä" from the start.
Manners/customs change with time and it's is getting more casual all the time in my opinion.
Thanks for the great points :)
"Manners/customs change with time and it's is getting more casual all the time in my opinion." There hasn't really been any change from my parents generation to mine. "Teitittely" and stuff like that is only used ironically if at all these days. I must say, my grandparents generation still had some of those "teitittely" rules in effect but that was the generation born just before war.
"Teitittely" is mostly used in work places towards the customers. I find that kinda stupid and it "lowers" the status of the salesperson compared to the customer, which shouldn't be the case.
Lmao the last one, the goodbyes one I think is just a Finnish thing! When I was visiting my friend in Mexico, she would drop me off at my Airbnb and I was struggling to open the Airbnb gate and then I noticed that she hadn't left and I got super confused "why is she still there" and I went up to ask her in the car "what's wrong why are you still here" and she said "Dude it's Mexico it's dangerous I'm waiting until I see you get inside" 🤣 I never thought more of it but you reminded me of that. I think we don't think about it cos in general Finnish people are quite independent and Finland is a safe country but I'm not sure. To me the whole situation just felt embarrassing cos I didn't want her to watch me struggle with the gate door lock 🤣
Thanks for sharing your experience. That's actually interesting!
I had almost the inverse happen. When walking back home in central stockholm after a night out with a girl from Brazil, she got really scared when we entered an empty street. Only streets where criminals are in control were empty in her city.
As a very cynical person, and also a finn, receiving gifts makes me uncomfortable. My first thought is that now I owe something. This is why I don't bring trivial gifts to people so they wouldn't have to feel the same way.
About the last part, I think all Finns think that after saying bye we will part ways immediately. If we want to stay and see the person off until they are on the train for example, we would hold off on saying bye until the last moment.
The finnish hierarcy thing, it's really deep in the culture that no one is above another. Ofcourse we respect our elders exc. but we consider treating them as equal to everyone else polite. I think it comes from the culture of modesty, tough history and small population; everyone is needed.
I agree as a Finn :)
Great point :)
There are no kings or peasants in a sauna, that's what it's all about.
Thank you for these words.
I've had interesting experience with this while working in a grocery. while thus far I've not had any issues with customers telling me i adress them wrong, i do notice it does feel wrong to adress them too casually (like fully shortened spoken laguage or especially using "sä" (spoken 'you'), and instead using the written you sinä, or dropping the pronoun and just implying it with the verb (like instead of saying "haluaisitko sä/sinä pussin" "would you like a bag", use either the plural you (more respectful) or drop it, "haluaisitko/haluaisitteko (te) pussin"
This might not happen nowhere but in Northern countries; I work as a cleaner and a caretaker in residential properties. The president of the highest court lived in a house I work, it’s a normal block of flats in the center of the city. Once he picked up a trash from the ground for me. It was an ice cream wrap paper. And we used to talk about weather, plans for summer, joking and laughing like anybody in Finland. If we lived in South America we would never meet, he would live in highly guarded house and leave the house in a bullet proof car.
I think bringing souvenirs for friends and family from trips used to be the norm here in Finland too, but has declined in the past 20 years. My colleagues have brought sweets and chocolates from trips. I think I would too if I traveled. I tend wait until trains and cars are farther away before leaving.
Interesting to hear that things changed :)
I used to buy tuliainen for my friends and family until ~7-10 years ago. I think it changed also because traveling with a carry on became more popular.
Most of my friends prefer experiences or services as gifts these days rather than something that just brings clutter to your home.
Bringing candies to your workplace from abroad is still pretty common I think 🤔
Also traveling has become fairly common and frequent, so it's not really a rarity that someone travels to an exotic place - I feel like that has to do with the fact that people stopped bringing sweets to workplaces. I still always bring something for my family and few very close friends. In 15 years my family went from 6-8ppl to 15 people (kids being born etc.) so I wouldn't have space nor the means to bring every single family member, friend and co-workers gifts from trips :D
From my trips abroad I always bring some local snacks or candy to the office for my co-workers. I feel that currently in Finland doing this is well received, understood and appreciated, although not really expected let alone mandatory. It's purely a personal choice and preference. During the previous decade or so in my workplace, I would say most people have not brought tuliaisia from most of their trips abroad, but many people still have, especially if the country they have visited has been far away and exotic from the Finnish perspective.
Finnish people are very casual and relaxed it was quite nice to see. Great video!
Nice to hear!
Some of us say long goodbyes and some of us don't. Nobody really thinks about it here. Although if you see a Finn waving after goodbyes you probably left your things behind and they're trying to get your attention. You're right about all of these things about gift culture and work place communication. Especially gift culture is totally optional, at least in my family. Good observations.
Terve that was a polite way to describe Finnish habits! I should add that when we see family members and near friends to train or airplane or alike we prefer to stay as long as the traveller is visible. Often I also wave to my near ones.
Souvenirs were common in Finland in my childhood, It wasn't long ago that Finland was quite a poor country, maybe it's related to the fact that souvenirs are no longer needed and everyone can travel and buy themselves. I haven't thought about it before.
Souvenirs in Finland are sometimes given to people and they're always appreciated when gotten, but the local courtesy rules usually go that people aren't expecting or asking for it unless they're close family. They're not being asked because people want to give the holiday goer some slack time instead of making them do chores and buy stuff for you. It's just about basic local humbleness.
Same goes for appreciating higher-ups, it never goes unnoticed if you're courteous but it's really never expected.
I remember as a kid when we left the grandparents home in a car we used to wave until we couldn't see them anymore. Things change.
Oh yea. I also did that as a kid. I also have a funny story related to that. One day when I was doing that, a passing by old man noticed me waving and he thought I was waving at him. Seemed to be happy about it, so hopefully that misunderstanding didn't get cleared.
@@spugelo359 aww :D
I still do that now and I'm in my twenties. Some things don't change everywhere I guess.
I love Finland 🇫🇮
Finnish goodbyes was an awesome observation. I haven't thought that before as I am a native finn. I would probably stay and see a person leave if she is extremely close to me (my partner in life or my mom for example) or someone close friend that I won't be seeing for a long time. Otherwise goodbyes will be very short. The culture has changed dramatically within 30 years or so. In my childhood everyone stayed until the train had disappeared to the horizon. This started to change right about the time when cellular phones started to be a thing. 🤔
Exactly, casual friends won't stay after the goodbyes. Staying is a sign that you really care.
@@jattikuukunen My thought too, if you stay and wave until the vehicle vanishes to the horizon it might give a wrong message in some situations. If opposite sex friend would stick too long, I would start to wonder is he attracted of me.
At my workplace most people bring cookies, sweets etc to the coffee table and whenever someone has birthday he/she brings something good too
It depends very much on the culture of the workplace. My workplace has a habit where people bring sweets or other souvenirs when travelling or coming from holidays.
Love your channel, keep up the fantastic work!!!
Thank you so much!
Very nice video, the last item was really very nice and saying bye bye to moving train is very sweet.
Even though it’s not a huge thing, it is still a nice gesture to bring snacks to your workplace. It also depends on the workplace and your team. I worked in a small corner store where most of us got along very well. We’d always buy each other holiday gifts and brought snacks to the break room.
That was interesting! Great video! 👍
Thank you!!
Interesting thoughts!
If you wanna play it safe just give packet of good coffee (1kg, 7-10e) as a souvenir or gift to a finnish person and he/she will appreciate it surely because we drink coffee a lot :)
Sounds like a good idea!
Yes and that is almost also an old tradition. A very safe solution.
I don't even drink coffee but I'd probably still get happy so yes definitely a life hack :D
This was interesting! For the last habbit of leaving and saying good bye; we follow your steps and getting into bus, train, home etc if you are elderly or a child and might have difficulties to get there. Also if you are a rare visitor that I dont meet often. I watch every time my 94 yrs mother in law getting seven steps up to the elevator when I bring her to her home out door.
I'm from Sweden, but I can see the japanese perspective (friends and family are japanese). The part of saying bye is same in Sweden. I would say swedes hug each other often as a way of saying bye. Some people won't wait and "wave you off". As my wife is japanese, I think like japanese sometimes instead, and people laugh at me, for being too polite...In Japan I'm instead too casual...So having two perspectives is good, but its also confuzing. Changing the way of thinking depending on if its in Scandinavia compared to Japan is hard.
Yes I understand how you feel when following Japanese "point" ways :D
Seeing someone taking off is more common in romantic relationships or when a parent is saying bye to a child.
There are some cases where Finns do bring treats to their workplace, but they are part of the "unwritten rules". For example at the workplaces I have been at, coworkers would bring treats for the coffee break if they had purchased a new car, become a parent or a grandparent, purchased a house, started their summer holidays, returned from their summer holidays, had their birthday, and stuff like. So both major and minor positive events that Finns want to share are usually celebrated this way amongst coworkers. But this is NOT expected or required, and it usually does not advance your career either. So you don't get into trouble if you don't bring treats, but you won't get promoted either if you do bring treats often.
Taking with you sweets and such varies allot from workplaces. It really depends on how the people are there. People have habits and play usually the easiest way.. If you for example bring sweets sometimes it might open door for the others to do that aswell.
My co-worker went to Thailand and brought a durian as a souvenir to the office. The office kitchen smelled horrible for weeks.
It is always different culture around the world. I feel the same when I move and work in Finland. 😊
As a Finn, I've never even thought about that "saying bye" part. The bye is said then and there, and the person goes to train. Ofc you might do that if it's your child or someone you love. But usually when I go to train, it would feel nice that they are waving at me from the station, although I might think that I forgot something. It's just a thing that doesn't comes to mind on normal occasions.
I heard that this souvenir tradition comes from the old days, when traveling abroad from Japan was very expensive. Travelers borrowed money from friends and relatives to make trip possible. When returned, they brought back some gifts as a thanks.
Thanks for the comment, that's interesting! :)
@@DAIKIFinlandLife It's also common to bring gifts to family members and very close relatives you're in regular contact with in Finland. At least in our family. Usually it's just something not so expensive like sweets and chocolate from the country. But my grand parents usually brought some really nice things on the way back. The gifts I remember really well would be ship in a bottle, 2 towels (really nice looking ones) and a... SanDisk memory stick? To this day I'm not sure how it's related to the trip, but I still use it for storing stuff. Along with snacks they brough.
2:15 As a Finn I loved that text "small swedes brought by different people ..." 😂 Daiki said it of course correctly as "small sweets".
For the gift culture the soveniers are something you dont expect cause you want your friends to relax and enjoy the vacation and only bring something back if they hapen to pass by something. Same goes for you. You don't need to bring anything back unless you feel like it. The main thing about vacation is to relax not to stress about soveniers. For birthdays adults usually dont want gifts but you to actually show up and have nice time to actually remember the day by.
That was interesting to realize about bringing souvenirs from foreign countries! As a russian person who has lived in Finland for 18 years, I also notice that cultural difference! Altho I think I realized it fully just now when you pointed it out... in russian culture it is also very common to bring souvenirs to family, friends and coworkers, but here in Finland, not so much. I think I still have that part of russian mentality in me, because I went to Greece and also brought souvenirs and chocolate to my friends and coworkers. Interesting!
Yeah actually that's what I also realized when my Russian friends often gave me gifts :)
About seeing someone off, as a Finn, if I actually walk you to the train platform or bus stop I usually wait with a friend/loved one until they get on their transport. But if we part ways in a "mid point" for example in front of the train station, I leave for my bus, she/he goes for the train, then we both "move away" from each other at the same time.
As for hierarchy I think everything you said was correct, I feel that the confusion is more prevalent in terms of etiquette. I do still worry sometimes about dress codes etc. when attending work events/formal celebrations. Even with mostly casual culture, sometimes (rarely, but sometimes) there are still oddly rigid rules at play. This as a 35+ year Finnish female :D
This was so interesting! It’s nice to hear about customs in other countries. What one thinks as normal in their own country, might be very puzzling to people from other cultures.
At my last place of work it was very common to bring local sweets or snacks from your holiday trips, but I very rarely bought souvenirs to anyone. Maybe for my close family members, but that’s it. I rarely even want people to bring me anything from their trips, unless I ask for something specific.
I can’t imagine how many fo paux moments I might have if I was put in a similar situations as you, but in a culture, where certain manners were expected 😨😬.
When I’m talking with very much older people, I usually talk more politely (using the pronoun Te instead of Sinä). I just changed jobs and our CEO is over 70 and I’m having a hard time calling him ’Sinä’ or using his first name, even though the CEO at my old company was older and I never had issues calling him by his first name 😄. But that came after working with him for so many years.
Thanks for telling me the examples from your experience!
At my work we bring sweets from our trips abroad. But I think it was generally more common before when travelling was a luxury. Now people travel so often that it not a must anymore.
Same for my culture when it comes to gift giving.
I started seeing people of in a more Japanese way apparently at some point because it just felt nicer, warmer. It kinda expresses that I really liked seeing that person.
Even though I hadn't realized we have that habit of just saying bye and taking of. Even seeing someone of to their train or something isn't necessarily done.
In my country we are exactly between your two countries, I think. I live in Poland, I understand all the three examples. That is why it is very interesting to hear about differencies between Japan and Finland.
Gift giving isn't a custom, but it's always cool if someone brings them. When no one else does it, and you have that thought and do it, others will usually have good thoughts on that, and remember you better and be kinder to you also. Especially if you bring those japanese treats!
I can already tell I will have reverse culture shock when I move back to Finland eventually.
Moi Daiki. I def get what you're saying.
The gifting culture is a bit different. It seems like Finns gift in Christmas or holidays rather than buying souvenirs after a trip.
It's very sweet of you to stay a bit when you part with someone.
You can send me off to the train station or airport next time then. Just kidding, haha.
Thanks for watching as always!
Yes I would see people off and still have the tendency to do it too. Although I'm used to going away immediately as well.
I think the souvenir thing might be regional, or maybe just depends on the family? I'm at least used to receiving and giving a wide variety of relatives, friends etc. souvenirs from my trips. I've brought back sweets to school, my work place and workshops I've been at the time after trips abroad. In my family at least souvenirs are a norm. Also on hierarchy, it's never bad to be polite and assume calling a person a sir is fine. Most likely the person will tell you you can call them by their first name, but I for one wouldn't go and just be personal with them from the get go.
I think low hierarchy and casual attitude in a workplace can be confusing, but it also lowers the bar for employees to bring up suggestions to their bosses to make things work better. Sure not all suggestions are good, but lower the hierarchy is, more good ideas should raise to the top if management is skilled.
I agree!
Heck, as a multi-year trainee I was assigned as a direct "underling" of the company COO (~50 person company) 'cause the work that I did spanned pretty much across everything the company did. Can't really have a flatter structure than that.
I've been to 6 weddings and only once i felt obliged to bring a gift and that was when the groom was a long time friend other times they were just some random relatives that i had met like once or twice before in my life
I would feel very awkward if I would go to wedding in Finland without gift 😯 It doesn't need to be as expensive as in video though. I also prefer buying something from their gift registry or something I think they like over giving money.
It's very, very untypical to go to a wedding without a gift! 😯 I have never heard about that kind of unpoliteness.
I read somewhere many years ago that in Japan if you're in a meeting room, the youngest member of staff always sits closest to the door. This is a throwback to the old days where if an assassin burst in mid-meeting, the person closest to the door would be the first target. Is that actually true?
Great vid BTW. Merry Christmas to you.
Not always, but in some formal situations, it could be true. Thanks, wish you a happy holiday!
Interesting point of views.. I am Finnish and about the last situation: If I am not in a hurry to go anywhere else - chatch my own bus or train etc. - I usually stay a bit, like if the person takes the train I might wait to see them go in and get seated and then wave for the last time before leaving. Specially if it is someone I don't see very often. Also it depends on the weather, if it is raining a lot or cold in the winter I might not stay at all.. I usually hugg with my friends before separating, so we might hugg each other and then both go fast our own ways.. Specially if we meet often. So I would say for me it depends on the situation.
And I do bring gifts for my friends from abroad if I have been there for a longer time. Or if they ask me to bring something special you can't get from Finland. I also send post cards to friends/family from abroad. But if my trip only lasts a week I rarely bring gifts. Last time I was in Korea for 5 weeks and I brought fex. some special seaweeds and cute plasters for all of my friends.. 😊
You must be a thoughtful person :)
My parents are foreigners in Finland as well, although at my mom's workplace they give even too much sweets.
Daiki san, could you make a video about dating in Japan vs dating in Finland?
Maybe someday, or maybe not haha
Some of the long goodbyes are also internalized sadness that your friend is going away. But if its a good relationship it wont matter, ergo it feels like short goodbyes are more healthy. Tho i could be very wrong.
Finns are very practical (or should I say functional, which manifests in a lot of Finnish desing, too) when it comes to communication. If you say something to another party and basically any response from another party, the "handshake" part of the discussion protocol has already been completed, so there's obviously no need for small talk. And when you end the discussion, meeting or a phone call with a "moi" or "moikka", the protocol has ended and both parties are free to continue as they wish.
In more formal situations you can ask directly "voinko sinutella" (literally "can I call you in singular form" because the older format style uses plural "you" when referrring to another party) if you want to switch from format communication style. I cannot remember any situation where the other party wouldn't have accepted the offer and immediately switch to casual style. In most situations, using format style would be considered smarmy here in Finland.
It's not so much about practicality we don't gift cash money. Money is a bit taboo in Finland, it's a private matter. Showing off you have money is considered tacky.
I can't explain it exactly but giving money as a gift is a bit crude and giving someone money kind of signals them being above the one receiving the money. Giving money signals that the gifter didn't bother thinking and getting a (personalised) gift. So giving money can seem inconsiderate and sort of insulting/belittling. It's like adults giving children money.
BUT then again people still prefer money over gifts and it's seen as the sensible and considerate thing to do, because then they can get exactly what they want and don't end up with stuff they don't need or like. And Finnish people LOVE to be sensible/rational.
So... it's complicated. Giving money is both considerate and inconsiderate.
To mitigate this the money is transferred without anyone physically handling money. If cash is given it will be given in an envelope and the receiver is not to show others the money or count them when receiving the envelope or in public in general. The gifter will also not say how much money is in the envelope.
Unless everyone is really relaxed. Finns like that too and informality and can intentionally sort of rebel against these social norms and do pretty much the opposite.
This is my experience at least (as a finn).
Gift cards are somewhere in between cold cash and personalized gift, and quite popular. It is not too obvious about the sum, the giver has put some effort getting it but the receiver can still make some own decisions.
In cases when you are really giving money, the account transactions are much easier than giving cash, as cash is quickly vanishing from Finnish economy. It can be a pain to use if you have given up carrying a wallet, just having your card holder.
@@glanwen10969 That's true too, cash is used less and less.
Excellent description of the Japanese Gentleman. The cultural differences must be approached with sensibilities. We need not be judgemental about others cultural habits. Each society follows what is comfortable for it and it tries to come to eco balance. I remember the gift exchanges of Japanese as my host gifted me with some thing each time he came to see me which I could not cope up with. The cultural homogeneity of the Japanese is of high order. Exceptions are not that known.
As a mom i think i need to take part on this convo of goodbye. Well think of it this way you have kids and you are working right... Then when you drop off your kids to kindegarten you have maybe 30 min to get to your workplace and to be on time so not alot of time to be just standing there to make sure everything goes smoothly+if you standaround the ladies will shoo you away because your children are in good care and the kids will be crying their little eyes out. Saying bye to your friend means that ok we are done for today no need to hover because your interaction has come to an end. It's prob very different in Japan and working culture is here more relaxed and casual so no need to be over thinking what you should do just be you that is enough
大樹、明日は月曜日、また仕事に行かなきゃいけない、冬は起きたくない😯。
The only exception for strict hierarhy is the army (officially "Finnish Defence Forces") where everybody is referenced by either their rank or last name only during the service hours. As Finland has mandatory conscript service for men, all men have this experience and it can affect the behavior a bit. In practice, you can notice people that have done their conscript within the last year or so, because it usually takes some time to get rid of this formal style after the army.
There's difference in army too. Navy is for example a lot more relaxed.
Living in Norway it's really fascinating to hear about these differences. :-)
By the way, perhaps you can do a collab with a American UA-camr living in Finland?
There's a American over there that I'm watching, and I'd love for you two to compare notes some day. ;-)
I'm not sure about how things are going with other families in Finland, but even nowadays when one is young and in love, perhaps it is better to visit together (with a girl/boyfriend) to her/his parents' home before wedding.. 💐 In older times, a boy/man had to ask "girl's hand" from her father. But some did live together without weddings, which is much more general nowadays. Differences still could be (how the parents are thinking) if you are rich or not, or girl's parents are deeply "religious" but you are not etc. Though those parents are not deciding usually, unless the girl is too young...
I'm a Finnish retired married woman and have one married son and three with a boy/girlfriend.
初め。ダイキはかわいい男の子です。🤩
Tosta lahja kulttuurista voin sanoa että lahjoja ei oikeen anneta töissä vaan enemmänkin koulussa varsinkin ala kouluissa oppilaat antaa opettajilleen ennen joulu lomaa esim. Kynttilöitä ja konvehtirasioita ja suklaata oppilaat antaa kyllä usein aika paljon konvehteja sillä usein ala asteen opettajien ei tarvitse ostaa omia konvehteja tai suklaata kun oppilaat on antaneet niitä niin paljon ja sitten taas ennen kesälomaa oppilaat saattaa antaa kukkia ja suklaata sun muita pieniä lahjoja
Finland does have hierarchies but the only rule is that the superior sets the rules. Thus if your CEO acts formal, you do the same. That's rare but not unheard of. I wonder how long it's been like this, the older generations were definitely stiffer...
moi Daiki,oh my goodness......... I totally understand where you are coming from......(now I'm giggling)....We Finns are incredibly straightforward.................like really..........I don't think there is any other countries like ours......I could not even tell you where this "behavior"coming from???????maybe survivor...........since its dark, cold most of the winter?????????I have lived in states number of years and I had to get use to that people are sooooo"damn nice'.....which of one of the reason I love this country........gosh,they will do anything for you...they are so considerate.Now when I come home to Finland its truly shock for me since nobody says hello or ask how are you today?Oh Brother,hang in there and love the beautiful nature,quietness,silence..............that is what I love about Finland........walk in nature, smell the fresh air..........no people......how unique is that??????????and thank you for your view point.Arigato my friend.....................and do you know what's funny?so many people in here is asking if I'm speaking Japanese(cause they hear my accent)
In Finnish, there isn't hierarchy per say, there are only niceties, that you can choose (Not mandatory at all) to use in any given situations. All these terms can be used (A) To express politeness (B) Make fun of someone in not serious manner (Humor) (C) to scold someone. The difference between A and B is your relationship with the person, and in C, the tone of your voice.
- "Neiti" is for younger ladies and customer service. A (To someone you don't know) B (Someone you know) C (Angry tone, to anyone)
- "Rouva" for older ladies and customer service. A (To someone you don't know) B (Someone you know) C (Angry tone, to anyone)
- "Herra" is for men and customer service. A (To someone you don't know) B (Someone you know) C (Angry tone, to anyone)
- "Te" for very old people and customer service. A (To someone you don't know) B (Someone you know) C (Angry tone, to anyone)
Then there are tricky subjects, as how to refer to younger men? Calling them Poika would be calling them a kid, which is OK if you are a grandpa. Calling them Jätkä / Jäbä would mean you are the same age, kind of. I think most often the choice of calling younger men something is just talk to them as sinä.
In Finland the leaders eat last. It is ingrained to us from military, that Your first make sure your men (your employees) are served, and after you have fulfilled this duty you can eat yourself.
You are nothing without those under you, so you better make sure they're satisfied.
I'm italian and i moved to Finland 4 years ago, is funny to hear that Japanese culture on these things are similar to the italian one, so yeah, we're on the same boat 😂
-Although not all italians care anymore about gifts usually it is considered rude if you don't buy something on a trip.
-Have you found difficult when you go to Japan or interact with japaneese "go back" to use hierarchy rules?
-In Italy when you stay longer when someone is leaving (let's say wave from the bus stop) looks like you are interested to that person or is a really close friend. why? mentality is "if stays so long means that really cares about me and don't wanna see me leaving" 😅 .
For me what was, and still feels strange is that it seems that they do not pay much attention to fashion or what people can think of, which in Italy is relevant (generally ofc) ; and when you are in a social situation (group, party for example) is rude or they think you are weirdo if you don't talk to all the people, at least to say hi once, this actually apply also in the workplace and neighbor (at least say hi don't walk over).
Thanks for sharing your experience. Sometimes it feels a bit hard to follow the hierarchy rules when I go back to Japan :)
One more data point: 1) I think we tend to decide for ourselves how thoughtful we want to be; others like to bring souvenirs/goodies more and to wider social groups and others not at all or just to closest people. I would probably bring something to family group only and perhaps closest friends. People in the office seem a bit too distant for bringing gifts to but of course there are different workplaces with differing styles of gifting. I think the Japanese way is nice but mandatory gift culture sounds also slightly intimidating. What if someone is poor (things seem to only get ever more expensive here and bosses seem publicly fantasize about free slave labor in Finland) and cannot constantly buy stuff for many people or you dislike someone and would be still forced to buy a gift for them or other people get mad at you :D Scary and complicated for a Finn :-) 2) In case of elderly people I might be tempted to use "teitittely" ('mini-Keigo' concept I guess) or "te" instead of "sinä". Also customer service people might speak to you in that more respectful manner. I really enjoy the flat hierarchy style and I think it helps with communication when there are not too many artificial barriers. Hierarchies have their place too or when it feels more natural way to go. I would love to talk about this with some Japanese people who have been living here for a while. 3) I think it's just wonderful to send someone off that way, though I feel that sense of non-complication again and like to just run away to my next task after we have clearly said "heippa" to each other and meeting is therefore adjourned :-D I can see myself standing there for a longer time and seeing someone off when they are leaving for war or some other adventure and will not see them for years :-)
I often think the Japanese are mega-thoughtful in most areas and we tend to have the lazy and un-complicated version of that 🤠
thanks
If you're not too close you are walking with them because you're going the same direction and so you can keep chatting. Once they go in the train you cannot chat anymore so you leave.
Waiting for the train to move would feel kind of excessive unless it is a friend from very far away, your immediate family or a child who would wave through the window.
Kind of like saying さようなら to your friend who you will see tomorrow, it is a bit dramatic or excessive to wait at the platform for too long or take a big detour to walk with them. With casual friends you use the "keep talking" or "going in the same direction" excuses to avoid coming too close.
In Finland giving money as gift can be seen as lacking imagination and effort. I think that part of the culture has been changing for a good while, but I believe many people still don't like giving money as a gift because it doesn't communicate your caring of the person. But money is also a very practical gift these days, and someone might have a big and special thing in mind which can't be coordinated by the guests together or requires the person to be choosing it, so just piling up the money gifts is convenient.
It's also common for the birthday person to ask not to get any gifts. Partially because they don't have anything in mind, partially because they appreciate the company when the friends come for coffee and cake. As you grow older, you start to value seeing your friends more than getting gifts, and I think it's just not that common in Finland to get together. Although it's equally common for people to still bring something, just something smaller like a bottle of special beer or some delicacies, or a nice little thing that reminded you of the person in the store.
I think the thing with the hierarchy, like when you talked about the bigger boss visiting, is that you're never gonna make a bad impression by being too respectful. Or being polite like pouring a glass of water, it can be a nice gesture. Like you can do that to a friend or a person you meet for the first time in casual life as well. It might be awkward for the boss if you're very respectful, but they would probably ask for you to be more laid back. As a japanese person, people would definitely also give a huge pass to you as people know japanese people are extremely polite and respect hierarchy. On the other hand you can never get back being rude to someone when you first meet them, or being impolite when someone expects some level of politeness. Like your friend said, the older people are often more like that nice uncle or grandpa. In many situations you can also observe the other person's lead, especially in situations where they are higher status. You can be polite and keep it to minimum until they open the situation somehow, which people often do and show quickly their level of casualness. And finally I don't think people will ever take offense if you're very blunt and straight forward with them like "I've lived in Finland for 6 years, but I'm still sometimes not sure of the level of politeness expected in all situations, coming from a very hierarchical society in Japan". It can be a huge conversation starter as well and they'll most likely try to make you feel easy about it. At least my experience as a finnish person has been that awkward social situations can often be resolved by being fair and square with people, they usually appreciate it.
Funny thing about that "bye" to me is the situations where you meet someone you know and have interacted with but aren't really personal friends with, or at least not on a daily basis, and then you chat a bit and it always feels like neither knows how to end the chat and how to say bye properly. In fact bye is the most difficult to me as a finnish person, I struggle to just cut it with bye and walk off. It always becomes awkward. I would stay at the train station if it was my partner that I'll miss or maybe a family member, but it would have to be a close person to stay and have them see I'm standing there sending them off all the way.
I'm surprised nobody's mentioned it from what I see, but there "teitittely", i.e. using "they" instead of "you" when talking to an older person is definitely a thing to some degree e.g. in service professions, even though it is going away fast. Back when I worked in a service profession (only about 6 years ago), I was told to always "teititellä", especially when speaking to older people. This kind of reminded me of keigo vs. non-keigo speech, just a lot more limited. But instead of asking "Tuletko sisään?", you'll ask "tuletteko sisään?", small things like that.
I am not that old, and am a finn, but it is Ok to use "teitettlyä, ja tuletteko", it is just a sound of respect. If you met the person before, then maybe not need to go so deep.
QUE PENA ,NÃO TER LEGENDA EM PORTUGUÊS SOU DO BRASIL 🇧🇷. GRATIDÃO .
My family brings small souveniers to each other from trips. Work friends are separate from my proper friends. On my birthday I bring candy to work or brownies. Nowadays, it is hard because everyone has allergies and diets. 220 euros is sooooo much money to give to a none relative as a wedding gift. And giving cash is weird.
Well, different culture.
Do I detect a slight Finnish accent in your English? My wife's from China, and she started to speak English with a Swedish accent after 8 years living here.
I am happy to see Japanese people in Finland, I am Finnish studying Japanese. I hope Finns and Japanese get along well
Good luck on learning Japanese!
@@DAIKIFinlandLife ありがとうございます
Also, Swedes went MUCH further in egalitarianism in the past decades. At least Finns have hierarchy in the military, but what I've heard, they erased it pretty much completely in Sweden. Also when working there in elderly care, I asked if I was supposed to "teititellä" (speak to the elderly in plural form like we at least used to do in Finland) and they said no, the elderly people would be appalled to be addressed that way.
The gift thing we have it too in spain, but mostly for the most closest friends and families, and when we say hi and bye we always give two kisses or hug and when you say bye always we check and wave the hand again etc
but here sometimes you just come there and no one says anything and sometimes i was like '' where did they go?'' xD and my partner just said ''they already went away'' and i was like ''but and the goodbye?!'' xD
Just different ways of behaving, i didn't find it rude, just shocking at the beginning
Haha I can imagine how it's different from what people do in Spain :D
yeh-...in here everybody hate long good bye's. makes feel like "heart breaking" moment. they not even starring 5 seconds after say good bye.😅
I never figure out when I can and when I cannot use Swedish in Helsinki unless the person wears a language flag on his chest. Sometimes I ask a person if he speaks Swedish but I must be prepared on any reaction to that.
Even we all study Swedish at school, not many of Finns speaking Finnish as mother tongue are willing to speak it, vi vågar inte... And some think it is waste of time to learn it. The Swedish language is swept out of sight these days compared what it was still in eighties or nineties. Finlands Svenska Television had their own channel decades ago (when I was a kid FST stuff was in the same TV channels with Finnish ones and you heard Swedish in kid's programmes and news every day because no one had changed the channel), Swedish adds are now more rare than English ones in the street view. In Helsinki I would say all people that speak Swedish as mother tongue can speak Finnish like natives and if they spot any hint that your Swedish isn't next to perfect, they change to Finnish; so in order to be able to use Swedish you need to be really good at it. You can't really rehearse in real life.
@@glanwen10969 In Sweden, ads ans commercials are too more and more in English instead of in Swedish. It seems English is taking over both in Finland and in Sweden. By the way, there are lots of Finnish speakers in Sweden. I was told the level of their skills though are often not functional in today´s Finland.
As a Finn, I just realized that it always bugged me a bit that friends just turn their backs on you when they're about to leave so soon, while I usually stay put seeing them properly off. Often I check if I can see them take a seat inside the train or bus and wave to them through the window but some of my friends seem like they're already completely immersed in their own world or on their phones not noticing me. I do not take offense but I've come to realize that it's just me being a weird Finn. But I can understand how that may come off a bit rude to people of other cultures.
Good points Daiki!
For me the casual hierarchy aspect came also as a sort of a "culture shock" after returning to civil society from a year long military service. I'm a FInn, so the casual/flat/loose hierarchy is familiar to me through my school years.
Tho be honest though, I refer the more strict/layed out/clear hierarchy and way of addressing someone, because in many situations I get into a sort of "analysis paralysis" when talking to someone "higher" to me while wanting to sound respectful towards them. There's ways to do that but reactions can differ and it's not really expected so the interaction is more or less everytime uncomfortable
To add: I think that many of us Finns take sort of Lutherian(church/main religion in FInland throughout the last couple of centuries) pride in being humble and undeserving. There's a point though where it becomes, in my opinion, ridiculous and counterproductive. So I wish there was more protocol based interactions in the Finnish civil society too.
ありがとうございました
Thanks for your interesting insight!
I think ppl can't be truly equal with hierarchy so I really love how casual Finland is. 🤔
@@bluemeow yeah its comfortable, but for me, personally, i prefer clear cut social roles and competition. I can appreciate the casual, "chill", aspects of everyday life, too.
I feel the souvenir culture has pretty much been dead ever since online shopping with free or cheap shipping and cheap traveling became common. In the past having something brought from abroad was uncommon since you couldn't just buy it on the internet and people didn't travel abroad multiple times a year.
Gifting culture drives me nuts here 😂 I love giving gifts but I feel that people might get bothered by it if it’s not something they really need. So now sticking with gift cards or asking what they want (which makes no sense to me).
三十で立って、四十で疑いなく、五十で天の使命を知る。大樹さんは40歳未満ということなので、若いのはいいですね。 🤩
論語ですね！笑
Everyone is naked in the sauna. That's the mentality behind being casual with everyone.
In Finland no one likes, if you do they feel uncomfortable and pressed to do the same.
My country gift culture is same as in Japan, but here I’m the only one who care about others in my bubble, even in my work if someone bday I make cakes and do something for them, but they complain: “you don’t need to”.
If I say bye bye I mean it and leave. I am not waiting :D
I would use "te" for the president and other exeptionally high public position people, old unknown persons, and that would be about it, everyone else would be "sinä". Anything more hierachical would feel very strange. I suppose a great contrast to Japanese society
We always buy things ( gifts) when we did go to finland and meet the relatives , i would rather not do it my brohers do this so i have pay my share - and its always alcohol and cigaretts. period
These captions are not great, swedes for sweets, slovenia for souvenirs. It sounded funny though when those small swedes got brought in XD
Those are the automatic captions of UA-cam.
Moi
"Teitittely", when you call elderly people "te" instead of "sinä" is something that I think will disappear soon. It's a generation thing. I learned as a child that it's the way you speak to old people. I think most people these days would prefer that you don't call them "te" because it is basically a sign that says you think they are old! Like If I (in my 30's) hear someone calling me "te", it is just awful! Some young cashiers do this and I hate it! Please stop
Interesting observation!
hmm... I might need to lightly disagree with this. Or well not disagree, but rather point out another point of view, I guess. The way I have always seen "teitittely" is as the only way in finish for the speaker to humble themselves. I at least have always been taught that in customer service "teitittely" is somewhat expected, especially, if you're a salesman trying to sell a product. And while yes I have also been taught to use it with elders, I wouldn't use them for that reason if the said elder wasn't at the age to be retired or near that age group.
In shorter (since I ended up making that kinda confusing) while teitittely is used for elders, but it's not the only use for the term. And that people MAY not necessarily call you te, because you're old. But because they're in customer service.
There is little here that is "about Finland", as this could apply to almost any European country. What you mention are essentially mismatches between European habits and your Japanese expectations.
In Germany or France it is not neccessarely so relaxed about hierarchy (fex. as far as I know you can't call your teachers by their first names there). Even when I studied at the University of Copenhagen, in Denmark, they had more hierarchy than in Finnish Universities. Some professors really kept their "high" distance to their students which I have not experienced while studying in Finland.