The secret story behind Two and Three Fingers | Elden Ring Archaeology Ep. 18
Вставка
- Опубліковано 1 сер 2024
- Elden Ring Lore of the Fingers. What's the deal with the Two Fingers? Why Three Fingers? Why... fingers?? Join us as we answer these and other seemingly absurdities by some old fashioned Tarnished Archaeology in the Lands Between.
#eldenring #eldenringlore #threefingers #twofingers #tarnishedarchaeologist
Gameplay footage/music credit: Elden Ring, Dark Souls, Bandai Namco and FromSoftware.
Music and audio samples:
Dark Souls A Moment's Peace, and Elden Ring Theme harp cover by Anna Ellsworth
/ @annaellsworthmusic
Song of Despair, Epitaph for Boletaria, and The Curse That Binds Us by Alex Roe
/ @alex-roe
Tang Tengri by Ahmed Bahadır Uslu
/ ahmed bahadır uslu - t...
Audio samples from Le Mystère des Voix Bulgares, Archimandrite Seraphim and the Choir of the Monastery of the 13 Assyrian Fathers
Video: Mongolia, MrBrynnorth; Basilica, Timeline - World History Documentaries; Eucharist, Annunciation Greek Orthodox Church, Rochester NY; Schism of 1054, CNN; Russian wooden churches, Great Big Story; Braille, BBC; Blaeu's map of Russia (1645), University of California; Grand Duchy of Moskovy, History Lab; Yin Yang, Jeren Velletri and DS-DNA; Rievaulx Abbey: 4K Cinematic Tour, eheritage.
Images (Chapters 1-3):
Justinian Mosaic, Steven Zucker; Pope and Patriarch, Osservatore Romano; Solovetsky Monastery Uprising, 1666, Sergey Miloradovich, 1885; Data glove, Rachel Freire & Artyom Maxim; Braille glove, ORama AI; Map of Rusia, Blaeu 1645; Fall of Constantinople, Lestertair; Mehmet Enters Hagia Sophia, Fausto Zonaro; Woodcut of Constantinople, Nuremberg Chronicle; Orthodox mass, Russianchurch; Oirad, kalmyk's National music; Chaos, Giovan Francesco Capoferri, Lorenzo Lotto; The Skoptsy, public domain.
Images (Chapter 4):
Roman Pantheon:I, Jean-Christophe BENOIST
Quatrefoil above the west door of Croyland Abbey; Thorvaldsson
Hand of God Fresco: Museu Nacional D'Art de Catalunya, Barcelona, Spain.
Cloister of Poblet Monastery, Spain (founded 1153) Jaume Meneses - Flickr: Monestir de Poblet
Whitby Abbey (1220s) Wilson44691
Ruins of Rievaulx Abbey (begun 1132) WyrdLight.com
Rievaulx Abbey showing Presbytery (R), South Transept, Chapter House foundations & wall of Infirmary (L) WyrdLight.com
Clothed hand clutching wreath, San Clemente, Rome, 1140-43. Jastrow
Moses receives the Tablets of the Law, and hears the call of God. Paris Psalter.
Moses receives the Tablets, c. 840 Karolingischer Buchmaler um 840 - The Yorck Project (2002)
Meister des Drogo-Sakramentars - The Yorck Project (2002
Canterbury Cathedral: Antony McCallum, WyrdLight.com
Hagia Sophia: Arild Vågen - Own work
Aachen cathedral: Photo by CEphoto, Uwe Aranas © CEphoto
Contents of the Video
----------------------------------
00:00 Intro
01:00 The Schism of the Fingers
03:45 Chapter 1: The Fingers
07:55 Chapter 2: A Quivering Code
13:45 Chapter 3: The Finger Schism
24:10 Chapter 4: The Divine Hand
36:58 Chapter 5: Who Killed the Divine Hand? . - Ігри
This channel broke the glass ceiling that other lore UA-camrs have hit a while ago. Item descriptions and npc dialogue are things that I can find myself. This channel really brought forward things that I actually missed in my playthrough of the game. Thank you so much for the awesome content.
Yes
@@manuelcuesta4789yes
@@oatmeal8274Yes.
@@eddiey699yes
@@biggiecheese3678yes
A numerous but somehow fitting message dotted throughout the lands between reads,”Finger but hole”. This phrase puzzles the mind but this analysis gives it a hole new meaning, truly awe inspiring.
I see what you did there
Imagine being some bloke in the lands between that gets petrified in a certain way and your entire legacy from then on is some tarnished fuck talking about fingering your ass with his other tarnished
finger.... but whole !
GRRM and Miyazaki forsaw it. They wanted us to do it!
I've helped quite a number of people out who are new to the game, and inevitably, at some point, they always ask..."What does fingers but hole mean?" I never know what to say, except to laugh.
“This is FromSoft giving us the entire story through architectural strata, right before our very eyes.” Prior to encountering your channel, I would have never been able to appreciate the full scope of From’s masterful work. I’ve been in love with their game lore since around the time Bloodborne released, and it’s always easy to miss something huge. I’m so grateful to this channel for enhancing the experience of the story of Elden Ring for all of its viewers, because there is no group of individuals that could do a more succinct, objective storytelling job than they.
theres people I know who think having to watch videos about the lore to understand means the game is bad lol shits crazy to me watching these are the pinnacle of the game I swear
@@gtkingly8127 unfortunate that people think this, but at least they can have the story too if they decide to look it up from a more focused perspective(youtuber lol), and maybe that will be enough to change an opinion like that
@@gtkingly8127 it’s like watching a season of game of thrones 😭
@@gtkingly8127
You should Look Up the paleblood Podcast, its a very simulare Kind of historical Look into the inspirations for bloodborne and the meaning of those in context of the Story. Realy a completely different Viewpoint.
The DLC finally provides insight to the fingers' origins. They are pretty much aliens, and their 'mother' resides in some sort of breeding ground only accessible through 'bells' in ancient ruins. I have no idea how this revelation could function to your analyses.
Not to mention the location leading to this Mother is another Cathedral nearly identical to the Cathedral of Manus Celes, albeit in better shape, which makes things REALLY interesting and perhaps links Manus Celes more closely to the fingers proper somehow.
this video was made a year ago
the number of times ive audibly gasped or gone “no way” out loud while watching one of your videos surpasses like every single other lore channel I’ve watched
It's honestly not even close. Every single video I make an exclamation in shock. Every one.
That was me when he was talking about braille.
There's a 4 hour video on Bloodborne on a guy called aesir aesthetics channel gives me the same vibes completely changed the entire story of Bloodborne for me
yeah, imagine ppl who are still like: lore = vaati. and I'm like vaati is not even close to being great, repeating other's ideas and such. All covered by "well-made visual scenes" which most of the time just take away from listening to the actual content rather than being useful. They're not even that good looking tbh
@@Tarcon_Vaagh_69 vaati is still one of the most lore accurate souls lore channels on UA-cam
I've said it before and I'll say it again, this channel is my favorite source of Elden Ring content, even ahead of Vaati, which I love as well. It's smart, I mean, I actually learn stuff, which is incredible, it's relaxing, great stuff guys.
100%! But still, the purpose of the channels are way different. Vaati is meant for a larger audience, and wraps the findings and conjecture of these smaller channels into cohesive, compelling narative with stunning production value. Then, for the few dozen thousands who are REALLY into speculating in what the inspiration for all this stuff is, we got Tarnished Archaeologist, which has become some of my favorite UA-cam content period.
Like, this channel has really opened my eyes to how much knowledge in history is needed for good world building. I would not be surprised if Miyazaki, George R.R Martin and other great fantasy writers would crush it on history trivia night lol. Really humbling to see that creating great fantasy is so much more than to just drawing really hecking cool dragons and other such surface level stuff.
TBH the last I enjoyed a video from Vaati was his lore video on the Children of Chaos. It had some real substance, both in story it had pieced together, as well as the execution of its telling.
Fast forward to today, he's meandering into cut content & mistranslation, making lists that don't really build into much, and focusing needlessly on 'cinematic' aspect of his videos, which seem to keep increasing in runtime for no reason. He's lost his charm and feels the same as most run-of-the-mill lore channels do nowadays.
the most thorough lore channel i've seen so far
SmoughTown is killin it too. Vaati’s ER content has been super inconsistent
Vaati is one of the worst channels that cover ER lore, he does not go into enough depth and makes assumptions that have no backing. One thing I really love about this channel is that they really go into detail about inspirations that Miyazaki could have taken from the real world. Alot of channels forget that the world Miyazaki created is told also through visuals and real world history. Being able to understand what inspired Miyazaki to create certain details is key to solving many parts of the game's lore, not just the dialogue that is told to us in-game which is what a lot of channels only focus on.
I love how the idea of a divine hand that schismed into two and three fingers long ago works perfectly to solve that weird lingering issue with a lot of the color theories where people get stumped on what differentiates Yellow from Gold in Elden ring.
The difference is slight probably born of some minor shift in hue from one faction or the other, but the consequences of such a shift ended up being massive in the long run.
I knew it!!! The sign of the two fingers pointing upright, and the lower three dangling underneath. I just thought I was being crazy, but I have seen a lot of eastern orthodox religious icons in my life so I distinctly remember that hand gesture, it almost in every single one of them. You guys blew my mind again, congrats!!
Glad you enjoy!
@@tarnishedarchaeologist Love your content, and cant wait for the next ep! 🤩
@@tarnishedarchaeologist Oh and I just wanted to add one think now that im through the whole video, I always understood the Two Fingers more akin to Angels to Greter Wills godhood, being called its envoys. But im talking something like actual inhuman looking and creepy Byblical seraphim and ophanim! Maybe that was also part of the inspiration.
Likewise! I had a total mind blown moment just like that
I think its worth mentioning that Ranni's finger is different. It's blue instead of grey, hairless, not rotted at all, not located in a divine tower, and most importantly its the only two fingers that still seems to be alive and active.
Other than the one at the Roundtable Hold. The Manus Celes fingers are also not shaped the same way the divine tower fingers are and appear to be larger in size
maybe empyrean fingers are different? Cuz we dont see Miquella and Malenia's two fingers so Ranni's are the only empyrean two fingers we see
We do actually see Malenias two fingers as hers are in the isolated divine tower where you activate her great rune. And it looks basically the same to all the other ones in the divine towers
I think it shows a "deviation" of the Greater Will. Ranni intends to betray them, and her will was enough to cause her two fingers to develope a sort of... independence from the Greater Will. (I know she kills it, but I think her Two Fingers were okay with being sacrificed for a "Greater good")
It's probably why all the other fingers look the same, as well. They are part of the overall hive mind that is the Greater Will.
As a side note and little tangent: Ranni seems to be about sacrifice, even sacrificing herself to keep out the Greater Will and other gods with her Consort. She knew what would happen to Blaidd, even Iji tried to save him, or prevent Blaidd from losing himself.
Ranni is the only empyrean who is active, so it may be that. Also those fingers were the likely very active plotting her assassination before she killed them. And she was a favorite to become the vessel of the GW. So maybe that may have saved them from stagnation.
I can't help but think about Placidusax with 2 heads resembling the 2 fingers, and 3 stumps. Maybe he lost/abandoned his 3 heads in a related event to the schism.
Could it be that his extreme belief in the two fingers principle led the god hand and the greater will to abandon him? And that's why he Farum Azula was abandoned.
If mogh lost his eye, just for his religious fanatism for his omen blood, placidussax could have done the same.
@@eduardusk5808 or it could have been a mutilation. He as the true OG Elden Lord, stayed true to the unified philosophy of the great tree, and was mutilated by followers of the 2 fingers in a symbolic act.
@Kynan12
it actually makes a lot of sense. There is crucible knights in farum azula, and Marika is known to bully and torture opposing minorities.
Fire giant standing has the biggest example
@@kynan1232 and that's why dragons attacked the capital of leyndell???
@@muramasa870 it very possibly could’ve been retaliation after the defeat and humiliation of their lord; who seems to have exiled himself within his own crumbling capital.
This is mindblowing. How this game didnt take 20 years to make I will never understand.
It did. This never could have happened without the team being experienced with Dark Souls, 2,3, Sekiro, etc
@@NoConsequenc3 great point. Theres that old tale of Picasso sketching something for a woman on a napkin in five minutes and when she brings up how it “only took five minutes” he replies that it actually took 40 years to get good enough to draw something in just five minutes
what exactly here needs 20 years to make?
@@sol9059 the depth of research and detail in every story, building, piece of clothing, accessory, weapon..
@@sol9059 building the world that this is set in, and making everything revolve around everything else. There is so much interconnected lore, characters, and locations, its crazy
Imo, the caliber of this content cannot be understated. What y'all are doing is very special and so dear to my heart. Helping myself and others fall deeper in love with these worlds and stories, all by relating to it's inspirational roots in history... Thank you. It's always a treat.
Our pleasure!
I initially passed off the lore as being a lazy rehash of Dark Souls, but after watching a single TA video (I think the one about grafting), I realized I was entirely wrong. I've been hooked on this channel ever since and I've gained a bigger appreciation of the game, and even did some digging of my own. Did you know Faram Azula has reliefs of human kings and queens with tons of babies and children? It's unique to Faram Azula and could have further implications
Pardon the caps lock but HOLY SHIT YOU FOUND IT! The two/three fingers lore was probably the most confusing parts of the ER allegory but now it all makes perfect sense.
How the hell are you so good at this?
What, you don’t get Miyazaki’s weekly newsletter?
@@tarnishedarchaeologist i got the newsletter but its full of feet fingers not hands fingers
@@suta7 lol reminds me of Limitbreakers video on people turning hollow from the wait for Elden Ring.
@@suta7 The Foot Fetish of Frenzy. No true Fromsoft fan would go unsubscribed.
I am heavily inclined the guy behind this channel is an insider from fromsoft.
Some of his explanations sound straight out of a brainstorming meet
I wondered if the fingers of benediction debate would come up. Literally two fingers vs three fingers.
I really love SmoughTown's lore videos and he constantly sites and recommended your channel so I decided to check it out. I see why now, easily one of the best lore channels out there. You've defo done more than enough to earn a sub from me. Good Job TA !
Smough's the best.
@@tarnishedarchaeologist I prefer Ornstein
@@tarnishedarchaeologist Smough IS really good, but you re thé best ^^
smough has a lot of incorrect takes imo
@@sebakisniesebakisnie6109I don't think he headcanons as much as Vaati does (sometimes) but then again, Elden Ring's lore is a clusterfuck of the highest order. There's so much that's unclear both in and out of universe.
I think the saint-and-tree era ended because of the finger schism which culminated in a tree burning and was followed by the crucible era/age of plenty/marika's new order. The elden ring seems to shrink with every subsequent burning and regrowth cycle, what that means I don't know. Could mean the world is getting sicker, cycles getting shorter, or could mean the elden ring is becoming more refined with each cycle.
There could be something to that
The poison jar of faith. Put many poisonous insects in a jar a let them fight to gain the strongest poison
Watching your channel grow over this past year has been such a treat. Every single video is outstanding, and the angles you explore are so original and fascinating. Thanks so much for all your hard work.
Our pleasure!
It's becoming a lot more obvious what role GRRM played in developing Elden Ring. The investigative work that goes into these videos is beyond remarkable. Thank you for being the channel you are, holy shit.
I love how you're having a 1v1 battle with the architectural storytelling FromSoft has created. While everyone assumes there is nothing else to be gleaned from the game lore-wise, you're still cracking important codes like this. This is definitely my favorite series of yours to date. Fantastic work!
Only a third of the way in and this one's already a banger. Bravo.
I think it's worth noting that the trefoil statue base isn't unique to the Saint & Tree stratum. While its appearance in later stratum might be just iconographic replacement, we also see in Farum Azula.
Makes sense: a symbol of the Elden Ring, it's slight variations depicting different iterations of the Ring.
Of course, the sword-saint would be culturally linked to a later era; Farum Azula is a City of Dragons, not of Cloaked Humans.
Farum Azula is the place where dragons worshipped primordial Elden Ring. So that's makes sense
Farum Azula is also highly notable for featuring the undivided five-fingered hand in the Cinquedea:
"Short sword given to high ranking clergymen of Farum Azula. [...]
The design celebrates a beast's five fingers, symbolic of the intelligence once granted upon their kind."
I *think* Farum Azula gets placed before Saint & Tree, but either way, it's another reference point.
@@vavakxnonexus I would agree Farum predated Saint and Tree. Their depiction of the Elden Ring in Malekith's arena denotes no tree veneration, instead depicting the Elden Ring surrounded by lightning, with the tornado/storm represented as the helix holding the rings up.
@@vavakxnonexus Of course! And this skism of the 2 and 3 fingers marks the start of a downward spiral that causes people to lose their minds; hence why most of the people in the lands between seem downright feral.
The amount info you are able to glean from in-game, and the mastery in your presentation of that info is simply astounding. I cannot get enough of your videos, and love all the insights you make. Thank you so much for all your hard work!
Wow, thank you!
At last some real thoughts about the three fingers and chaos flame that isnt just "lol, they hate life."
a big reason I never got into souls games I realize now is because they just seemed too cliche or nihilist. This game is brimming with meaning and I am much more inspired to play
Masterful! So many of the final tumblers are clicking into place. All the little things that bothered me. I usually keep my mouth shut and wait to see what people figure out, but there is one detail that bothers me. In Farum Azula, I noticed that ALL of the skeletons enshrined on the floors aren't beast men. They are horses. That has got to have some significance.
Wow, thats an intersting fact.
If your familiar with horse skeletons, I've got a question:
Somewhere I read that the ancestral spirits are not deer but just "horses with horns" due to their skeltn, skul and hoves. Can you confirm that?
@@leohirtsche8341 I've heard that as well. There were other beast races. Why not sentient horses. I feel like there may be a connection between torrent and those ancestral spirits as well.
@@leohirtsche8341sounds like Torrent
@@DH-oj2ruI assume Torrent is the last in the line of whatever the ancestor spirits are. Unless the one we see in the dlc trailer isn't torrent
I think it speaks to the quality of your content when I get genuinely mad that you're done when your videos end. I just want to keep listening! No other channels cause this emotion within me the way yours does. I can't wait to see how far your videos go.
It's amazing to be able to figure out something like this. I have been invested into the lore of souls games since the original Demon Souls, and the idea of braille and finger prints across all of the fingers never really caught my attention to this degree before. Absolutely amazing work.
Thanks!
As an Orthodox Christians, these videos always fill me with shivers. May chaos take the world!
Glad to see I'm not the only one!
same@@Poorcheeseboy
"may chaos take the world"
why not just *leave* then if you hate the whole living and earth thing so much
this is your temporary home, and as long as we bare arms, we're willing to "evict" you if you misbehave
I think you guys have done enough damage in the ... I don't know ... about 2200 years? How about you don't spread chaos for about one minute?
Mndblowing connections and parallels. Amazing, gonna go back and rewatch all your videos on this saint-tree empire because this put everything in a brand new light. Also eagerly anticipating your next video, thanks for the hard work.
Hands down THE MOST insightful Elden Ring content ❤ love the work
This channel is such a gem. Great job.
Glad you enjoy it!
Perhaps, philosophically, the Three Fingers were cut off from the whole hand to literally cut out the truth of the universe. Their prints, as you say, contained these truths about how all was one. The big question to me is, how does this schism come to pass? Perhaps the fingerslaying blade - made from the body of a champion much like Marika/Radagon was for the Sacred Relic Sword. Perhaps it was an assassination plot, much like the Night of the Black Knives. There's so many mysteries coming to light thanks to this video. I'm always excited for your uploads, and there is still so much of the game you can cover.
Additionally, I always found it peculiar how Raya Lucaria lacked Stakes of Marika but the Eternal Cities do not. We always learn of their banishment happening because of an unforgiveable crime as ordained by the Greater Will. And as I'm realizing, perhaps this schism happened of the whole hand thanks to the Fingerslaying Blade. I'm pretty sure the Eternal Cities were specifically located in Consecrated Snowfields - at least Nokron was, as it had the blade and its terrain with the red wolf matches the terrain found in Consecrated Snowfields, with the pale trees and the Ancestral Followers populating it.
Yeah, you're on to something with the Fingerslayer blade. We hope to develop that idea soon.
Welp, I'm gonna need my own Finger Reader to decode my praise, because I am officially speechless and all I can do is wriggle. I hereby bestow Tarnished Archeologist with an Honorary Degree in Fromology. I grant thee the title of Digito Lectorem. 🖖
You know what, there's actually something to dig if you pay attention to the hand gesture of casting black flame incantations from both players and Godskin apostles, especially Scouring Black Flame incantation😉. also notice the hand gestures in the godskin dual fight in Farum Azuls when they summon new godskin to spawn, I think there's some stories to talk about there.
Hmmm formless serpent, assassins, Usurper of God, flying serpent, shaded castle. I believe the divine towers (tower of God) are there for divine communion purpose specifically with The Greater Will, who brought 'the concept of order' to the Lands Between (plant order within life) via meteor strike of the Elden Star, just as you mentioned , like 'concept of fire' brought disparity in dark souls series. Two fingers on top of the towers are envoys to communicate with The Greater Will in the circumstances, while Ranni leaves her empyrean vessel flesh on top of the divine tower to show her provocation towards The Greater Will.
I can't express the joy I felt when I heard Dark Clouds by Christopher Tin playing
I was getting worried you'd disappeared! Thank you so much for your hard work; these videos are as impactful, poignant and entertaining as playing the game. THAT is no mean feat!
As a soon to be historian, and amateur archeologist, the way you weave research on real events that might have inspired game design, with archeological methodology, and good story telling, is endlessly inspiring. I remember when you had only made one video, been watching ever since, keep up the great content.
Thank you for being with us from the start
You have a really calming voice, and the content is of top notch quality. Thank you for your hard work!
Great video! Excellent observations about Manus Celes
Thanks my man. Do us a favor and use that influence you wielded for the PVP changes and get us that DLC ASAP!
I thank more enthusiasts everyday for their work because us regular fans probably don’t appreciate the stunning detail and storytelling told through the architecture enough. It blows my mind that it’s not only item description telling us deeper stories about the Lands Between but also the architecture. It absolutely blows my mind
I am endlessly fascinated by ancient Christianity and all its chaos and you’ve somehow combined two things I love to learn more about and never considered in a million years how closely related they are. I am here forever haha
He kinda glossed over a lot of important fact,
before the schism the church of Rome agreed and singed the nicean creed that the holy spirit comes only from the Father but, in 1054 when they revisited the Nicean Creed again, the eastern orthodox church realised that they (RCC) purposefully added the "Filioque" (and the Son) title in the document.
This caused an outrage because this undermines the holy spirits. The RCC lied about that they didn't added it and this was "the real document". Both church excommunicated each other and in the time of the 4th crusade, the crusaders attacked constantanople and raided the hagia sophia church (one of the holiest site in EOC). This action killed any possibility of a reunion.
Fantastic video as usual. I would like to just highlight a parallel that I don't discussed anywhere. There are 3 and 2 fingers after a split from the One Great into the Greater Will and The Flame of Frenzy, as per Hyetta's dialogue. My question is: how do Placidusax' heads figure into this? He used to have 5 and only 2 remain. Could his god be the One Great and the split cause him to lose his 3 heads?
I want to give my two cents about the whole "braille in the air" thing as well, as someone who's been living in Japan for 6 years.
It is very common for Japanese to write kanji in the air in conversations, to clarify meaning or specific words during conversations. Since japanese is a language with many words that have the same sound, the difference in the kanji can change everything. So, when Corryn read Goldmask finger movement that's what I imagined he was doing, basically reading (without seeing, I know, but magic and whatever) the kanji he was "drawing" in the air
I’ve always figured goldmask and the fingers were actually writing in the air, but knowing it’s based on a real thing that (most likely) developers and writers were doing casually for convenience
I had no idea this was a thing, the phrase "reading the air" makes much more sense now
one thing, we don’t use gloves for old texts anymore. It’s actually more likely to be damaged with gloves than without as long as you wash your hands of any excess oil before handling.
why? because gloves make you lose dexterity and your sense of touch making you more likely to damage the page by tearing it, gloves also tend to lift dirt off the page, causing loss of pigments or transferring it to another page/book. clean dry hands only folks, unless of course the book has metal fittings or poisonous bindings.
Oh boy, another Tarnished Achaeology video! Your channel really is the gift that keeps on giving from a lore perspective, I adore your intertwining of historical events, myths and allusions and how well you make them parallel the lore and narratives of the game. It truly is a brilliant type of creativity in its own right! I also appeciate how "academic" you make it all feel in presentation, nuance, and overall substance, thriving upon the openness of interpretations of the purposeful ambiguity of the game to really push farther than the typical Soulsborne lore perspective and inject your own interests (or the scholarly interests of your team as a whole, whatever it might be) to further detail the scope of the acheaological/historical outlook you furnish. Really looking forward to this video after the first one, let's see what kind of epiphanies you will seek to explain!
I have always loved looking at the lore of these games with the concept of "schisms" in mind, since there is a lot of ideology and philosophical distinctions packed into Soulsborne games (not to mention theological, of course, as you focus on heavily in your Elden Ring videos. Bloodborne's schisms always fascinated me (evolution vs insight, blood vs eyes of the mind etc.), and Elden Ring definitely has many schisms going on as well, so let's take a look at your take on the finger schism and what conclusion you come to based on the historical grounds you tend to couch your views upon. By the way, you SHOULD do Bloodborne lore one day!
PS: The Maradona quote, haha nice!
PPS: Well, having watched this all, I can say: WOW! The connection of the two and three finger schism to the Russian Schism is incredible, I never made that link, but it fits so fantastically and it just has to be the historical inspiration! What a wonderful discovery and speculatory flourish. The Roman Empire parallelisms are of course also brilliant as usual, especially with the emphasis on environmental storytelling and archaeology itself, but I do always feel the "Faith and Tree Empire" concept in connection to the Roman parallel is a bit more fraught and stretched, there are just so many alternative interpretations that can form without any kind of concrete chronological textual source from an item description in-game. Still, this was another incredible video, and I continue to look forward to deeper delving into this topic as the series develops. Your presentation and eye for aesthetics has also grown by leaps and bounds from the earliest videos of the channel, which is another great sign of progress and quality!
Well done again, as usual!
One thing I've yet been able to link is the timespan between the Dragon Lord's abandonment and the Saint-Tree Culture, but especially the architecture behind Manus Celes cathedral.
Placidusax' injury obviously parallels the (first ?)finger schism, yet the first fall of the Beast Empire must have happened long before the peak of Saint-Tree: In many ways - f.e. the latin names, the gothic-style architecture, and the reverance of the whole hand of 5 - Gothic Caria must be a scion of Azula and have had a lot of time to develop distinct features and ideals of it's own, while moving into a noticably different direction than Liondell. The time necessary for this development from Ancient Roman (Azula) / Ancient Greek (Dynasty) through Norman/Romanesque (Caria Manor ?) suggests that, at the time the cathedral was (last) named, the Celestial Hand likely was no longer a prescence; but "merely an object of faith".
This then gives us a major political and theological disagreement between Liu/Lnd and suggests that at least one of the major conflicts between them was about that sovereignity in interpretation. After Marika has established her new empire, the 5-finger-worshippers are the most prominent threat to the GO's mandate of divinity. The poor stonework of the church of vows further suggests that a long time of degrading construory skills had passed between abandoning of the five-finger faith (and thus the cathedral), and the marriage alliance.
The First Liurnian War being a second Finger Schism also fits with the Sword Monument near Bellum Church: Radagon wins, and eradicates Manus Celes worship from Liurnia, strengthening the Golden Order. Perhaps this is when Nokron and Nokstella are banished, aswell.
Credit to other lorehunters who paved the way during the Souls era, but you are operating on another level when it comes to this stuff. Consistently amazing videos, every time.
Ah, the fingers finally solved
I don't understand how every single one of the videos in this series blows my mind. Every single one has evolved the way I look at this game. So much credit should be given to fromsoft for the truly unbelievable care they took in world building in elden ring, and so much credit should be given to you for uncovering so many mind-boggling secrets hidden in plain sight. As usual, the game doesnt just tell us the story and hides most of it in details. But From had faith that somewhere out there, there would be a tarnished archeologist who would come along and uncover the mysteries of this incredible universe.
I have been looking forward to your next video.
Thank you for what you do.
As a non-Christian, and someone who was raised pretty removed from Christianity, this channel is an absolute treasure trove. I never would've stood a chance at putting together ANY of these dots. Incredible work, as always.
awesome video. i love your way of pointing out the similarities with real world history, you have to have great knowledge in that field. for me as a history geek it is a great pleasure to watch your videos, i was so impressed when i first discovered your channel that i binged all the content. maybe think about sometime doing the same with bloodborne and/or ds, that would be really cool.
big thanks for your work and greetings from austria, home of ferum noricum.
Every video you have produced has made my jaw physically drop. You are a absolute gift to this community
Finally. I’ve been searching for this explanation since I started delving into the lore. Nothing came close but this. Gold.
Both the level of detail included in the game, and the attention to these details by the community gives me a deeper appreciation for the game as a whole, and for that I am thankful!
standout channel. THIS is analysis. most who make videos about media analysis contain no investigation, just summary of what the game already says/shows. just a retelling of the piece of media, as its already told to the audience. this channel's video includes incredibly thorough, EXHAUSTIVE investigation.
Keep this up ! The real life parallels are so insightful and interesting to learn about !
It's interesting how a lot of the lore in game sounds really cool, but when that same cool lore actually happens irl with a lot of these religions you just think "wow... those people are insane".
NEW TARNISHED ARCHAEOLOGIST VIDEO WOOOOOOO!!!!!!
I swear I didn't see your comment when I posted WOOOO as well, hahahahah
That's what we've been waiting for, that's what it's all about
I am in absolute awe and I’m not even four minutes into the video. How is this free on UA-cam?! This video is on the upper echelon of content; the highest caliber. Absolutely incredible… Bravo, sir!
God, you seriously plow through every lore mystery effortlessly, I cannot believe that a discussion of the frenzied flame was able to ramp into a perfect explanation for the fingerslayer blade. Sometimes it feels like you're reading directly from the lore bible that informs every single detail of this game.
Having miyazaki's cell# helps too.
I get so excited when I see you've posted a new video! Your detailed breakdowns and analysis have added so much depth to my Elden Ring experience, and I'm grateful for your hard work. Thank you!
Glad you like them!
Absolutely brilliant work as always. I'd had a similar theory about the fingers being a hand previously, then splitting due to conflict, but the way you piece everything together using real world events is masterful! Can't wait for the next video.
Big compliments to the music selection and editing of this video. Perfectly resonating with the subject, and every time I recognized the music, it came in a mini-crescendo of both music and understanding of the connections. You guys know your stuff! Respect! Fantastic research work, I can't wait for more!
Every video absolutely blows me away. The way historical events link to the present and the ‘IRL’ and in-game connections are truly fascinating. Another masterpiece video. Thank you for sharing!
We missed you ❤ thanks for another video 😍
Man, you really knock it out of the park every time. While everyone else always seems to be grasping around in the dark, your combination of in-game factual analysis and direct real-world comparisons slot everything together like you're inside Miyazaki's head. Love your videos, excited to continue the series.
I tried so hard not to have my mind blown AGAIN but TA knows no mercy.
To me two fingers were always the receiver-sender antenna which is why it would take them 'many moons' to receive the answer from the Greater Will when they run out of pre-programmed instructions and the world entered stalemate state, with impassable thorns preventing new Elden Lord from mending it.
Kid named finger
I just wanted to share a relevant revelation I had a couple weeks back. Law of Regression is the GO Fundamentalist way of describing the fact of reality that all things were once "One" and acknowledges the primordial chaos.
>"The fundamentalists describe the Golden Order through the powers of regression and causality. Regression is the pull of meaning; that all things yearn eternally to converge." - Law of Regression
>"All that there is came from the One Great. Then came fractures, and births, and souls. But the Greater Will made a mistake. Torment, despair, affliction... every sin, every curse. Every one, born of the mistake. And so, what was borrowed must be returned. Melt it all away, with the yellow chaos flame. Until all is One again." - Lightseeker Hyetta
I just thought it was worth pointing out. Also how Yellow and Gold are very very similar colors and Represent Chaos and Order respectively. They're similar ideas. I love how this video expands and solidifies these ideas for me.
That is some high level insight.
@@tarnishedarchaeologist All things can be conjoined.
I’ve never looked forward to new videos as much as yours! You guys have something special going here
Been waiting a whole month for this. I haven't even played Elden Ring, don't plan to. I enjoy watching the challenge runs, and this channel makes an amazing work at communicating the lore. Will be expecting part 3!
Man this one in particular I WAS GLUED TO! As soon as you brought up the russian schism it all clicked and jeeeeeez the deep dive into the architecture of the church of vows blew me away!!!
As a russian I was surprised nobody saw the connection from a mile lol
Always a good day when TA uploads! Fantastic lore video, its always fascinating hearing the real world stories that may have influenced the game!
I can't get enough of these videos of yours, literally dropping everything as soon as you upload. Great when your own gather knowledge from all fields of study are somehow relevant, like the video you recommended about roman concrete which is a rabbit hole that I've already delved into. Thank you yet again! Proud supporter since your second video and your growth is simply astounding!
Now that's the kind of brand loyalty we're talking about. Happy to have you still around.
My mind is continuously blown at the level of detail the FromSoft developers have put into this game. The more i learn about the lore, it's real world inspirations, and the meticulous way the details have been layered into the various items and structures in the world is so far beyond what most major AAA studios are willing to commit time to making. You just dont see this kind of love and artistic craft from other major studios and it's why this game is an all time great.
Seems to me there are some architectural similarities between the Church of Vows and the Cathedral of Dragon Communion as well, is this something that might be addressed in a future video?
Excellent as always, my dear. You are a major source of inspiration to me in my own writing of Elden Ring lore.
Whatever you write, keep working at it!
Yes I love these types of videos, been stuck thinking on and off again about the splits between certain groups in the land between especially since you pointed out the shared archaeology between certain spots in selia and leyndell and thinking about the nox and numen.
Yeah flowery story telling is cool, but I just learned about river blindness, nomadic tribes being persecuted, and the Orthodox schism from old times, and then was reminded this is an Elden Ring video. I love this.
The actual GOAT of elden ring lore. I wish you would take a swing at other fromsoft games as well in the future best of luck.❤
Its not eldan ring but have you seen charred tomas
I made this exact observation on reddit a year ago and I got nothing but "hands mean alot of things" IM BITTER
You need a youtube channel my friend. Then no one can stop your crazy theories.
@@tarnishedarchaeologist is there a discord I know I can contribute to some ideas that are in line with the vibe of your show
What if the bells on the finger readers staff pick up the vibrations from the fingers moving. It’s a stretch but the vibrations would move the bells a little bit and to those who don’t have eyes like the finger readers any sensations might be more noticeable. In turn the readers might be the only ones able to decipher it.
Good lord I learn so much from each of your videos, about history as much as anything else. Yours are the videos I now actually look forward to on UA-cam, simply sublime!
Nothing gets me more excited than a new tarnished video ❤
Omg so excited I've been wondering when this one was going to drop. I say it every video you have your finger on the pulse. You and quelaag.
How many fingers on that pulse? Answer wrong and down to the catacombs you go!
@@AmryL lmao you got me there cause we all know it's 3!
This has been my favorite Elden Ring lore video I've. I didn't even know what questions to ask when it came to the 2 and 3 fingers so you blew me away with all these answers XD
You don't need me to tell you how amazing this content is. I'm supremely impressed, and having found these yesterday, intend to go through your whole catalogue over the next week.
Thank you so much for sharing your curiousity and diligence with the world.
From the second I booted up elden ring I instantly could feel it was a game of faith and hope and how different people use those concepts to different ends. Keeping up with your videos, it’s nice to see that my knee-jerk reaction and gut instinct are supported by so much! Lol
It’s always going to be a good day that starts with a new Tarnished Archaeologist lecture. Do you have a Patreon? How can I support your work?
Glad you enjoyed! There is a mechanism through UA-cam superthanks to donate, but honestly just watching and commenting is good too.
he also accepts chicken bones
Everytime my feed is blessed with a new Video from TA, i get all giddy because i know i will get to see one of the most interesting, breathtaking and well put together videos i have ever seen in my 13+ years of using UA-cam. Never have been let down once, in fact, every video seems to trump the last!
Fun fact, some books are so old that they actually DONT want people to wear gloves because it dulls their sense of touch and can lead the reader damaging it because they can't quite feel how delicate it is. Not all books, just really really old ones with delicate brittle pages.
Ladies and gentlemen, the RedGrave of Elden Ring! Somebody get this guy a crown!
There is only one RedGrave
Bro will you talk about the sunken City in Liurnia? I immediately thought about it when you started talking about how this pattern of arches and clover relief is all around Liurnia. I have always wanted to know wtf happened to this city cause it actually doesnt seem like it sank but more like the uhh ground rose over it? The whole geography of Liurnia keeps me up at night. Maybe the same people who built Manus Celes used to live in this city before it sank? Like, it's the only actual city in Liurnia and it's taken over by albinaurics. I just always wanted a video on that but I have never found one.
Holy shit dude
How does it feel to be this good at what you do?
Discovered your channel through this video and I'm losing my mind, I've never been this impressed by a lore video before, let alone the fact that I also feel like I learned actual USEFUL real world information from it. Just wow
When you showed the image of the finger severing blade, it made me think of the blade we get after killing the Elden Beast. It has the same humanoid rib & spine design... which makes me wonder, who's body was used to make that blade? The gloam eyed queen maybe?
The gloam eyed queen does not quite fit into the timeframe. Considering she was defeated by Maliketh, Marikas emperian beast, she was around at least till Marika herself became an emperian. Thats a rather "resent" event compared to the making of the fingerslayer blade.
WOOOOOOO
My man you are the only channel that I actually click on every time I go on youtube because I want to make sure I have not missed your latest upload. Cannot wait to see what you have for us this time. Cheer!
Good to see some recognition of the setting’s overt monism!
You might also invoke monastic sign language, rather than braille, which has existed in European monastic traditions for centuries - Braille is much more recent, and monastic sign language extremely apropos.
I also would like to propose that, instead of a schism splitting a literal hand, the three fingers take that form to symbolize the reunification of the world into one thing - the ideology of the Three Fingers (and five fingers represent Will or Intellect in the symbology of the Land Between). The hands are not really a good match or made of the same substance, but that’s because the shape of the Three Fingers is a declaration. (This neatly deals with all the dead two fingers which don’t correspond to a similar throng of three fingers). The counting rhyme of the Lands Between is very old, with five fingers appearing on the Cinqueada to represent the Beast’s intellect. There is a literal hand - it’s the hand of the Elden Beast, which is the five-fingered hand representing the Greater Will in its vassal.
(The counting system seems to be one for fellowship, two for guidance, three for misfortune - and the frenzied flame calls all life misfortune, four for good fortune, and five for intellect. Six is implicitly blasphemy against all things, and only Rykard, Godrick, and Astel seem to show six)
After all this, however, I’m a bit skeptical of the Manus Celes connection - a complete hand represents intellect, so Manus Celes means a celestial will, as well. The many two fingers around the map (including the one below Manus Celes) seems like something the single physical hand theory needs to handle, while a symbolic construction of the three fingers as a statement of ‘return to the monad’ seems quite parsimonious. The complete hand is “Will” or “intellect” - and the three fingers are “Will made a mistake.”
Wow, this channel is an absolute gold mine. Your breaking down this information on an absolute molecular level. Definitely found this channel at the perfect time.