I can’t help but notice some striking similarities between Scylla and Charybdis (from Greek mythology) in relation to the bestial sanctuary and the vortex/whirlpool next to it. I then stumbled upon a photo of The Rock of Scilla, Calabria, which bares a striking resemblance to the edge of the colosseums in Elden Ring. I was wondering what your thoughts on that might be? Personally I can’t tell if it’s alluding to something more, if it’s just inspired by such mythology. Also I love you channel, gives me a lot more insight on one of my all time favorites games and I truly appreciate all the hard work you put into your videos. Much love - Q
unrelated to this vid but have u noticed that the farum azula gold covered skeletons that are lying down on the ground and on the "tables"(at least in the beguinning parts) are of herbivores and not carnivores while the ones cuffed to the pilars are carnivores?? any thoughts on that?
Let me just say I love the naturalistic education that comes in these videos. The flow isn't broken to explain achaeological terms or perspectives, but I still find myself understanding through context. Excellent work.
smoughtown and quelaag do great content too, and as far as im aware these guys all keep in touch and share knowledge too, so making a competition out of it is rather fruitless imo
I just finished the first 5 mins of this video and i had forgotten i wasnt there to learn about funeral rights in our world and this was a video on elden ring i honestly think if you did a video on a topic unrelated to it i'd still be really glued to it (i am a fan of archeology though so maybe i'm an outlier) but still i'm so happy this channel exists, thank you
You’re able to extract so much information that I’m not sure what’s more impressive, your analysis or the fact that they were able to build such an ecosystem of culture hidden in the game world. Fromsoft gameplay is unmatched, but the way they tell a story through community discovery and support this kind of content is what makes them truly incredible imo
@@YamaXI Bethesda, the company that thinks that people can run a diner in the post-apocalypse, but not even bother to clear out the literal skeletons in the booths from over 100 years ago? They don't even come close to touching Fromsoft's world-building.
@@YamaXIwhat an unhinged comment, gobsmacked. Fromsoft lore exploring is the definition of missing the forest for the trees. Then noticing the forest, only to get lost in the trees again. One simple sentence phrased differently by someone else, and the entire understanding shifts.
Elden Ring came out about a year after I got worryingly into Bronze and Iron Age history was a transcendental experience and these videos are immensely gratifying, because i wasnt sure if i was imagining the similarities or not.
Historian and translator Tom Holland? Imagine being a devoted scholar and then having your legacy get overshadowed on Google by a hot guy who put on a spider suit
Can we just appreciate how much real world history TA teaches us on top of the Elden Ring lore? I've never come across a channel that actually makes me feel like I come out of it smarter for learning about a video game's world development. Also, I should know better than to click on a "part one" that came out earlier today... part two can't come soon enough.
I've been wanting to give you - and your accomplices, if you have any - a compliment. Not a native ENG speaker so if my choice of words seems funny, that's the reason. But here goes: your channel, and the way you present information as well as how you conduct yourself, has not only gotten me extremely interested in the world of Elden Ring, but also surprised at the level of depth involved in creative world design that started before the game was in full production. It's fantastic to realize that there are far more layers to the story that I realized, meaningful layers even, and that some things which seem out of place aren't always explained with "don't think about it too much, it's just a game" rhetoric (even if that sometimes probably is the case). As a huge bonus, I've learned something about our history and customs as well, and I thank you for that. All of these observations and theories you put out there are so much more meaningful than just reading item descriptions out loud or coming up with a timeline of events like an accountant, without meaning or passion. Even if you were wrong about something, or even if you were wrong about most things, you still get my imagination going. Because of your work I have even more respect for the little details FromSoft puts in its games, and that childish spark of curiosity just lights up. You clearly care about what you're doing, you're clearly interested in all of this yourself. Same kind of energy, in a way, as another youtuber Bob the Hollow. The way he presents his lore videos is amazing too, you can sense there is a personal investment and curiosity there. But I have a question about this video in particular. Forgive me if I'm dumb and I missed something you said, but what do you think was the reason for the original builders of the catacombs to build them around the roots, if there was no erdtree burial? Why is the presence of the roots necessary, let alone a huge chamber dedicated to them? Might it be a "it's just a game" situation, where it was just more economical for FromSoft to have more story elements packed into certain locations, or do you think it (the presence of the roots) plays an integral part to pre-erdtree death rituals?
Until TA can take the time to answer this, I can offer some speculation. There is a lot of evidence and allegory to support that the Elden Beast, the Elden Ring, and the Erdtree are all, on some level, the same thing. The evidence also points to the Erdtree being made from a fusion of the Elden Ring and the remains of the Great Tree. This gives us a hints at the predatory, or even sinister, nature of the Outer God the Golden Order ultimately serves. To bring it back around to your question, tree related plant life often probes for resources with it's roots. When they encounter something of significant value, say the runes that make up a person, they reinforce growth in that area of the root system and swell in size and strength. I imagine the answer to your question is t that hey weren't. They probably started as close to a traditional catacomb gets for this world. But the roots eventually found them, and the bodies/runes were so nourishing that they became a feature of them in later years.
"Might it be a "it's just a game" situation, where it was just more economical for FromSoft to have more story elements packed into certain locations" ?? As much as it is a very well rooted (ba dum tsss) world element, it's also a "just a game" situation. I'm a believer of game's archaeological evidence but I'm not a child to believe in fairy-tales about the impeccable FromSoft game design. Simply put - "Get f^cking real, will ya?" ER is a marvel as much as it is a sell-out, it's most saddening and impressive that it accomplished to be both. (Also non-English speaker, hope I don't come off as rude. Although I am ;) 😁
I am exceedingly impressed at FromSoftware's level of detail and real world history being reiterated in Elden Ring's mythos but I am even *more* in awe in how TA manages to unveil this layer of Elden Ring's narrative. Truly representative of Miyazaki's love for the Occult. So much story hidden in plain sight but isn't realized unless someone unveils it for others. So glad to be following this channel!
I have a theory about the warrior jars that this video inspired. Put yourself in the shoes of a normal person in Elden Ring post shattering. People are starting to question and lose faith in the golden order and it's way of life including erdtree burial, but you still want a way to ensure that you and the people you care about are properly taken care of in death. So with the present societal order failing you look to past great civilizations for answers, civilizations like the Saint and Tree era. Looking to their catacombs leads you to urns and not knowing any better you misinterpret their use and just start putting your dead in jars, sometimes the same jars. Since you have been removed from the life cycle of the erdtree but still can't die because there is no death rune anymore, you get a fascimile of life, the jars taking on a "life of their own" seemingly separate from but I'm fact a consequence of the fact that there is no longer a distinction of separate people in the jar but a consistent corpse pudding. Maybe.
Fantastic! This is exactly how we think the development team goes about their world building. Add a dash of minor Erdtree to the mix, and you get an internally-consistent narrative, which also mirrors IRL examples of post-collapse societies, unknowingly inventing syncretic culture through a desire to cling on to a previous glorious past. Attempts to reconstruct forgotten ways-of-old from their lingering remains often end up combining remains from several layers deep. As you describe, together with the new givens of the time, attempts to fit all those past elements together, elements that never before coexisted, ultimately creates something new. That is what we have here. Well seen!
@@tarnishedarchaeologist Yeah I definitely agree with you about the hook to fromsoft games is all the meticulous world building they do that they, that they then just toss out into the world to find if you want to. Makes you actually want to spend inordinate amounts of time starting at brickwork. Most fantasy you just appreciate that a thing is there and not wonder how or why. Your videos were definitely what opened my eyes to that kind of thing and my experience is much richer because of it. So, thanks for all the hard work. Keep it up! 😁
@@tarnishedarchaeologist Ah jeez! I really should finish a video before commenting. Just realized you pretty much said what I commented very shortly after I posted it lol. Well, if I have to share a hypothesis with anyone, this humble tarnished is honored to share it with the venerable Tarnarch!
I want to bring up: Erdtree burial was reserved for those who "deserved" it, such as heroes or nobles. It could be that some form of cremation is still practiced to this day, which can possibly explain Spirit "Ashes". I don't really believe the previous though, since fire is seen as so heretical in the Erdtree belief. Edit: I really need to finish the video before I comment lmao
This channel was the push I needed to really get myself to explore Elden Ring (my first time playing a Fromsoft game)! I just wanted to see it all for myself. This is such an interesting channel 👏
When did you start exploring? I know you said this channel helped push you to do it but when did you start doing that? 🤔 I still find myself noticing details all the time. But yeah, I started looking harder after this channel started to publish its works 💖✨
It wasn't untill watching this channel that I started really looking at/thinking about the architecture within Elden Ring. Shortly after, I too noticed the seeming contradiction of having all the places for storing bodies in the catacombs, despite the prevalence of Erdtree burial. Couldn't figure it out though, so I'm glad you're covering this!!
I can't shake the thought that someone ordered a song as a remembrance of his deceased wife and 2200 years later we remember her. Not to mention the fact that the passing of around seventy generations between then and now validates these beautiful lyrics.
I believe that the deaths poker is actually designed to stoke and turn the burning bones, not remove them unconsumed from the fire (like a traditional poker). As the ghostflame torch description states that ghostflame is produced by burning the bones themselves. One of these descriptions is mistranslated and it seems more likely that it is that of the poker. I would greatly appreciate it if you could get a second opinion on the japanese description for both.
Ghostflame Torch says 仲間の骨を燃やし, specifying that they burned their comrades bones. Deaths Poker says 遺体の燃えがらを掻き出すという, that the birds rake out corpse embers/cinders/burnt residue. But the poker is only describing what the birds do, it doesn't call out the poker itself. So you're likely correct that the birds used the poker to stoke and turn the burning bones. However, I'd like to put forth another theory based on an alternate definition of ember, "Slowly dying or fading emotions, memories, ideas, or responses still capable of being revived." Perhaps the birds were raking out the remembrances and/or souls of the dead while burning the bones. Perhaps those two actions are one in the same, which is why it produced a cold ghostflame.
@@Deadgye Thank you so much! That is a very cool and crucial detail. The description is incidentally talking about how the birds collect something from the fire to be reused or reborn, not necessarily describing the function of the poker itself! It seems that I was correct to some degree.
22:06 Wouldn't that rather mean that there's ash that actually returns to the Erdtree? For example, the term Unpicked Fruit implies that there are other fruits that were picked up, otherwise there would be no need to create a specific term. Ashes contain immortal essence (aka spirits), which is precisely what the Erdtree feeds on. What if cremation is actually necessary for Erdtree Burial?
A cool thought - but I think that the bodies twined in the roots are clearly unburnt, so it can’t be a requirement. “Ash unreturned” could simply be drawing the comparison to other forms of corpse that are returned.
I interpret it as its *possible* for ash to be used for erdtree burial, like scattering it around the roots or on top of the groups of bodies- but not necessary. Perhaps some in the Lands Between are disturbed by the visual of their corpse getting absorbed like that. So the way I see it, the spirit ashes dont have their magic power just because they're ash, but specifically because they're ash that hasnt been scattered on the roots. After all, why would anyone return the ash of a stormhawk or rotten stray to the erdtree? This also could explain why we find Oleg in a burial chamber despite being ash. He's been cremated and prepared for burial- but for one reason or another, his ash hasnt been absorbed and the player can use it. Perhaps the Ulcerated Tree Spirit made it impossible for undertakers. Or perhaps the shattering stopped the process of absorption. Whatever the case, I believe Oleg and others in similar situations like Lhutel didnt have their cremation and erdtree burial as seperate processes across two different lives. If they did, both deaths would be of completely different people.
Damn, man! You as consistently teach me about the real world as you do the lands between. Positively titillated by that reference to the twin birds in Farum Azula. Great video!
I always eagerly anticipate the next Tarnished Archaeologist video and I am a huge fan of the channel. I am currently working on a TTRPG system based on Elden Ring, and one of the most challenging and rewarding parts of that process has been trying to assemble a timeline of the world and enrich my personal understanding of its lore and factions so that I can serve as an effective worldbuilder and GM. In this way, your channel, in addition to Smoughtown, have been absolutely essential to my note-taking and research, and I want to thank you for the quality work you consistently put out. I don't always fully agree with a handful of your conclusions, but I wanted to let you know that I would not be able to continue with this project of mine without your excellent and informative content! I eagerly anticipate the next video, because the connection between the Twinbird and Farum Azula is a question I have been grappling with for some time. However, I do have two questions that I hope you can take the time to answer. 1) If everyone is technically "born" of the Erdtree by virtue of Marika's and the Erdtree's grace, then how/why are Godwyn, Mohg, Morgott, and the rest of the Golden Lineage considered to be specifically Marika and Godfrey's children? I am not sure if that is something you ever touched on in your Erdtree births videos. And 2) I'm still wrestling with the idea that you and Kosmos have put forward that the Gloam-Eyed Queen was in fact the previous god before Marika and therefore the god consort of Placidusax. If that is the case, then that means the ancient dragon empire would have spanned all the way back to the inception of the Great Tree roots up until the ascension of Marika and Godrey during the Crucible crown-sprouting period. That would also have to mean that Placidusax was Elden Lord and the GEQ was god during all of the other ancient empires you have discussed in other videos, such as the Ancient Dynasty, the Numan Eternal Empire, and the Saint-and-Tree empire that directly preceded the Crucible, and yet to my knowledge we see little if any dragon iconography within those strata. While there are certainly huge connections between specifically Stormveil and the ancient dragons/beastmen, I find it hard to believe that Placidusax was Elden Lord and the GEQ god during all of those different eras and dominant cultures. Instead, it seems more likely that the ancient dragon culture fell prior to the emergence of the Ancient Dynasty and the Great Tree, the fled god of Placidusax is unrelated to the GEQ, and that she was instead perhaps a rival Empyrean claimant during the Crucible era. What would you say to that?
So we basically have several funeral practices: 1. Beastmen practices excarnation in style of Zoroastrian tower of silence, combined with Varna burial practice. 2. And then ghostflame cremation of deathbird and the catacombs, with tightly packed tombstone on the surface probably for burying the severed finger. Given the burial watchdog breathe fire, able to use glintstone magic, and affected by crystal darts just like Golems, this suggests that this burial watchdog related or at the same time where Giants/ancient giants and astrologers thrives and live peacefully together 3. Sarcophagi burial, in catacombs or in the surface 4. Erdtree burial and subsequent use of Jars 5. Sarcophagi and spaces inhumation of Haligtree 6. Skeleton in boat, on watery section of Stormveil castle 7. Remember the eternal cities, you can transport between three cities using sarcophagus that can even ascend through waterfall, and in some sections, red ants seemingly eating and collecting dead bodies from wooden casket seemingly carried by river flow to their domain One thing to note in the opening, you see the corpse of Gideon Ofnir, submerged between ears and several eyes, overlookes by creature, seemingly imps. Does that mean they also manage his revival and sendoff to real world in Lands Between?
I really appreciate your separation of the different practices, especially your connection between the deathbirds and the catacombs via cremation. That’s a really excellent catch. I’m still not sure the Minor Erdtrees have to be post-Shattering, because there’s a Minor Erdtree Church built before the Shattering (since Marika spoke there). I stand by my theory that they’re clonal sprouts from the root network. This would upset the jar timeline a bit.
In his timeline the shattering is followed by radagons rise. So the words in the Minor Erdtree church are likely radagons, and there's actually plenty of clues that point to this. The voice doesn't speak with the authority or phrasings associated with marika, golden centipedes are found by the church, and are also found by radagon statues. The golden order seal can be found there which is ties to radagon's golden order principia.
@@swordierre9341 I think the idea that Marika’s spoken words there are Radagon’s still contradicts the way Marika and Radagon have remained within the tree and the impenetrable thorns; Marika imprisoned, Radagon trying and failing to repair the Elden Ring.
@@WanderedIn Alternatively, the Elden Ring has been shattered more than once throughout history. There have been cycles of great tree destruction and regrowth, so it is not unlikely there have been accompanying cycles of shattering and repair of the Elden Ring. This would explain why depictions of the Ring change across the different historical stratum; the Ring was shattered, but then rebuilt into that form.
@@MutantHeadcrab I think that’s a significant step too far - we have textual references to the uniqueness of the Shattering across the game, and the previous changes in the Ring are easily explained by events like Marika’s creation of the Golden Order by removing the Rune of Death. The golden seeds are said to have been impossible to imagine, and Marika as something God itself intended to be ‘Eternal’ is crucial to the thematic point that what ‘should have been’ eternal cannot be. If the cycle is shattering after shattering, then the story is muddled; the moment of breaking the cycle would not really suggest the possibility of real change (or real despair, or the restoration of the cycle).
Also, it seems to require the God of the Age to betray the Elden Ring to shatter it, since it was Marika alone who did it, in the end. Let us give her credit for originality, in attempting suicide by cosmic destruction.
I just want to say thanks for the great content and thanks for putting part # in the title. Too many youtubers these days just do clickbait titles and you can't tell what's part of a series or not nor in what order.
I always thought the winged scyth was in reference to the cleanrot Knights because they have those white things hanging down that look like moth wings. Also in the Haligtree (for example in the prayer room) there are statues of little angles everywhere so that could be a connection.
its very possible Miquella believes in whatever pagan religion the white-winged maidens originate from (assuming its not the deathbird religion because they just dont really fit there). After all, one of the greatest mysteries in Elden Ring is what EXACTLY Miquella believes in; he quite randomly implements Carian icons in his work, he uses a new form of reincarnation through cocoons, he clearly has rejected or reformed a lot of Golden Order/Erdtree beliefs, etc etc. And then theres the dlc concept art's ruined churches that share the same double helix stonework found on trina's torch, which might imply that Miquella/Trina himself is being worshipped too
I think the winged scythe belongs to an older level of strata (as tarnished archelogist would put it) than the time of Malenia and the Haligtree. Wings in general are a part of a lot of death religions in elden ring, like on the Mausoleum Knight gear. Most likely Miquella is borrowing/appropriating a lot of elements from earlier strata to support his Haligtree faction's claim as the erdtree's successor
@@ethanwashington6789 From what I've been able to work out, Miquella has a male body but most likely a female soul, which is why he appears in dreams as St. Trina as (possibly) a woman. The goal of the Haligtree is a sort of magical switcheroo to take his sister Malena's place and become the next God (because otherwise Malenia's rot will turn the lands between into more Caelid). This gets interrupted by Mohg, who keeps seeing St. Trina in his dreams and becoming obsessed with them, and then somehow kidnapps Miquella to start his own faction around him as the Formless Mother. (there's a lot of gender stuff around Miquella so I'm kind of playing fast and loose with pronouns)
Again, I'm without the knowledge base to add to the discussion on top of what you and others have said, but I'm nevertheless flabbergasted by just how much there is to learn in your content. The best I can offer is my like, subscription, comment, and most of all, my appreciation in what you all are doing with this channel. Thank you.
I only just started the video, but that long shot of the statue at the beginning made my jaw drop because I realized it might be fucking grace. Not Golden Order grace, but probably something along the lines of the deathbirds, similar to the ambient red grace in the mountain of the Giants
I love how in all your videos, when you communicate things that are new to me, my response is rarely a mind-blowing "wow, that unbelievable, what a twist!" but more often a "oh, that actually makes a lot of sense, and is really cool".
I always learn something new with your videos, not only about Elden Ring, but about humanity itself as the inspiration behind this amazing game. Thanks!
Dude, awesome video as always! I'd take one point though, both Lhutel and Oleg EARN an Erdtree burial rather than actually HAVING one... this actually goes back to your serpent video pointing out how Lithuanian kings converted while still practicing 'pagan' rituals. This kinda makes sense if you consider the idea of someone like Oleg, if compared as a crusading night as an allegory for their essentially transitioning to mercenaries, earning Erdtree burial but rejecting it would make a lot of sense. It would be a bit like the Varangian secretly arranging a Scandinavian funeral rite, perhaps even tolerated given the politics of the era
The more I watch your channel, the more I'm convinced that one of the major issues with The Lands Between is specifically the rune of death and it's treatment by the Golden Order. It's hard to tell what the situation between life and death was before the Golden Order got its mitts on the rune of death, but once they started trying to work around it/negate it, that's when seems like all this funky stuff where people couldn't die properly seems to stem from. Additionally, its use in bringing down the Golden Order seems to have not been a full reversal of its containment, but only a partial relaxing of it. Which, again, further messes with its normal operation. That's where you, the player come on the scene: the rune of death is trying to do its normal thing, but it can't any more because of the state it has been forced into by a whole lot of people who have been trying to cheat it for a very long time. Yeah, it would suck to let death go back to doing its normal thing - likely lots of people would die - but I think that would also alleviate so much of the sort-of-dead-but-not-really that so many of the inhabitants seem to be suffering under. #FreeTheRuneOfDeath XD
Over the past week I binged all your videos, this is the first one I'm catching on premiere, so I'm excited. I'm belling for your content now, man, it's just too good. Each one is a profound learning experience. I need more more more! MORE! Always! Forever!
First off, I would like to say your movies are absolutely astonishing. I watch them constantly and on repeat. Do you have any other videos or work we can view? Much love and keep up the amazing work!
These videos are amazing--love the analysis, the storytelling in the narrative flow, and the tie-ins to real-life historical practices. Thanks for putting these out and can't wait to continue watching!
Damn. Aside from the absolute informative blast that the video is - as usual - one cannot overlook the artistic sensitivity to open the video with that song. These vids really are work of art.
These videos highlight the absolute genius of the writers and developers of the game and their clue dropping to the sheer brilliance of the lore hunters to decipher it! honestly mindblowing stuff
As a suggestion for a future opening song I bring you a niche norwegian folksong called "Heiemo og Nykkjen" by Kirsten Bråten Berg, it has a great mood which would fit perfectly as one of your opening songs for a future eerie topic.
So happy I found this channel. What incredible work. It’s almost like Elden Ring is a reimagining if our own history. So excited for the DLC and more analysis videos of whatever it adds to the story. Thanks for this amazing content. It’s so detailed it’s like attending a University lecture. There should be irl classes on this subject.
Oh my god I'm so early- AND IM SO HAPPY :D Thanks for another upload so soon! I love listening to these on my way home from work. Makes it so much more fun.
I've defended Herodotus so many times I'll just rewrite what I usually do here quickly. He was writing down what people told him, not specifically what was 100% verifiably true in most cases. I think it's way cooler we have those stories than strictly exactly what happened, Herodotus is exactly what I hope an ancient "historian" would have been. He had some real history, some half true history, and some not true history. All of it immensely valuable and all of it incredibly interesting. I respect his travels, his skill, his dedication, and the man himself. Thanks for another great video.
I always name my character "Samsara" in From software games because I die so many times before achieving moksha. Some thoughts: The Romans also used wedding rings to link one spouse to another spouse via a finger which, they believed, had a nerve that went directly to the heart. Deathbed companions are similar to the alchemical belief in ancient China and Japan that an older man sleeping chastely beside a young maiden might restore life to the older/dying man. There is also the story of Abishag in the Torah where Abishag would lay in bed with elderly David to keep him warm and restore his energy. When Fia embraces us she remarks that we are "very warm." And what does she do? She takes part of our life, perhaps using it in the hope of imparting it to Godwyn's corpse. Elden Stars states that the Elden Ring would eventually become the Erdtree, yet Life existed before the Erdtree (as evidenced by the ancient burials, ghostflames, etc.) so does that mean the Greater Will coopted Life by using the Elden Ring? Did Life exist in the Lands Between before the Greater Will asserted itself? Is Gold really essential to Life or is it like the phantasms in Bloodborne, augmenting Life for its own purposes?
@@jannafrancis7452 but is Farum Azula the oldest part of the Lands Between? The tombs all around the LB may be older. There may have even been a time before the Crucible, perhaps a time when the Crystallians and the Onyx/Alabaster Lords existed, born in the Primeval Current. After all, "primeval" literally translates to "first age".
Your channel inspires a lot of us to keep discussing and searching for things in Elden Ring and feel like being a part of it. Even though you're setting up your own framework fundamentally based on archaeology, I believe a channel for discussions just for viewers like a discord for members is a nice idea. The same way that a network of untrained or partially trained amateur astronomers once in a while find important things for big institutions like NASA, I think a place where your viewers (a.k.a. the untrained archaeologists) can discuss things they found might once in a while be nice for some footnotes in your content
It makes so much sense that you would be a fan of Bloodbourne up close. I watched their videos some time ago and felt like Elden Ring would greatly benefit from someone taking a similar look at it. Thank you for taking up that mantle.
Amazing video, I aswell found the caskets and urns strange, thanks for unearthing this mystery! I think the culture that built the catacombs could be the giants, the crystal dart affects their creations all, that's to say golems, imps and watchdogs. And it makes sense that a fire god would want a funeral of flames. I think farum azula use the icon of the deathrite bird for the same reason as the raven assassins, that culture was so prominent that the birds became icons of death for following cultures. Another bit of ghostfire is the skeletons around hermit merchant's shack in Altus Plateau can vomit ghostfire, and they have the rarest shield in the game, sun realm shield and it's seen better days. But as the deathrite bird seems modeled after the phoenix, well a sun god isn't out of place as their master.
I don't know about the giants. Crystal darts seem associated with the crystalians who seem largely confined to the Sellia/ Raya Lucaria empire. We don't see crystalians in the mountaintops. Otherwise it'd be a shoe-in. What is the connection between crystalians and the astrologers, anyway? Perhaps the crystalians were made by astrologers of a later age.
@@Xandros999 We do know the astrologers lived with the giants, as per night and fire sword: "Astrologers, who preceded the sorcerers, established themselves in mountaintops that nearly touched the sky, and considered the Fire Giants their neighbors." and to quote the crystal dart "Long ago, it is said that a golem crafter employed a similar crystal tool."
Whilst you didn't touch much upon the stormveil boat burials, I have to congratulate you for not presuming it's movie "viking burial" by burning a boat at sea. But rather buried the entire boat with a person. My pet theory is the Tibia Mariner are these graves being afflicted by deathroot.
19:42 - An interesting cultural point about the practices of contemporary Western cremation: we seem largely comfortable with "bad things" happening as long as they largely occur out of sight. I doubt many today would enjoy watching their loved ones' cremated bones be crushed up. A lot of people would probably even object to it if they were intimately involved in the process. This is similar to a lot of other things in contemporary society. Agriculture and food production come to mind, where people love eating meat but are extremely grossed out and uncomfortable with most of the practices that go into producing it. Other consumer goods have the same issue. Most people would be disturbed by the labor that goes into making their products. What these all have in common is an extreme alienation from production. If one does not wish to think about how their food is made, they never have to engage with it. You can buy your meats, vegetables, and other snacks pre sorted, washed, and packaged nicely for sale. In the same way, we aren't actually involved in much of our practical funerary rites. People plan the events and give speeches but do not deal with the bodies or burials themselves. As such, the appearance of the end result matters more than what goes into "producing" it. There is little spiritual significance to cremation. Some religious practices insist on whole body burial, but that's more tradition than a spiritual belief that preserving the body is important to the enduring soul or whatever. To get back on the subject of Elden Ring, it's surprising that the age of the Ghostflame bothered with building catacombs. The invocation of birds as being the bearers of the Ghostflame seems very linked with carrion bird or consumption based funerary practices. Afaik, funerary practices like these are most common in cultures with low attachment to physical objects of remembrance and/or low attachment to physicality in general. If Death Birds are the ones "administering" death, and which bear the Ghostflame used for cremation - how would the ashes end up in pots which are then kept in catacombs for safe keeping and visitation? The best explanation that I can think of is that perpetual animation of the body is the norm in the Lands Between. Perhaps the only way to prevent someone from going on to "live in death" as a sort of dark souls-esque hollow is to invoke a greater power for destruction of the soul. The Ghostflame is described as being cold, which might mean that it is not as good at burning flesh as it is at burning souls. The implication being that the Ghostflame is collected by people from the Death Birds and then used for Ghostflame cremation to prevent eternal animation. Erdtree burial, as well, is the process of returning the soul to the Erdtree to remain in the cycle moreso than it is a way to deal with corpses. I dunno, though. Could be way off base!
Myasaki is a social scientist, grrm loves antropology and social sciences in general, só its fitting that their atention to historical in game details are so good
Writing truly is just putting something down, something else down and then going Huh this middle thing seems cool and it feels like it works And you slot it in and then bam. A whole system has evolved. of course if you dont think about it or try to link bits together at all it falls apart- But I doubt they were thinking of it THAT deeply. It seems to be a constant with writers
@@elvingearmasterirma7241 I do think that TA is great with his videos but i have to admit i think he is reading into alot of stuff a bit deeper than the world building and story writers really intended at times.
Miyazaki surely thinks more about the lore than about the game, he probably has this all figured out. Martin probably only wrote the names of characters so he must be scratching his head. 😂
Thank you so much for the videos, i have been rewatching all from oldest to newest and i totally fell in love with all of them, almost feels like counting the days 🤣 i am dying to watch the following, keep up with excellent work!
I always found interesting how life triws to adapt to fill the niche left for the ridance of death as maybe the case with the living jars and for example in caelid after the bloom with the rune of death removed and life unable to die being corrupted and twisted by the scarlet rot just couldn't afford the luxury of an agonizing death but had to twist itself to live alongside the rot and even incorporating it into their lives somewhat similar to Chernobyl wildlife adapting to the radiation irradiated exclusion zone
If cremation is incompatible with Erdtree burial, why do we find spirit ashes (literally "ashen remains") of people who were given Erdtree burial? (Oleg, Kristoff, Lhutel, maybe more)
A welcome breakdown. Since very early the Lands Between have reminded me of the Necropolis Litharege from Neil Gaiman's Sandman. I think there is a lot more to the Living Jars than you give them credit for. It is perhaps possible that the Erdtree repurposed them, if that is in fact the Erdtree Seal, but the tradition of the jar burial seems to be something much older and connected to the coliseums. The seal is the most easily changed component of the jar. Perhaps it is true that the Minor Erdtrees were more recently grown from seed, but it really does seem that the jars were associated with earlier trees that stood on those spots and were cut down.
Seeing as alot of the same jars are broken and empty around minor erdtrees, chances are they are used to transport corpses and maybe even compost them for use by the trees.
History mixed with myth. Just like the notion that From can make an open and cohesive game world 😉 Still, good for us (channels like the Tarnished Archaeologist) 👍
If there was ever a video I needed it's this one. ER www as my first foray in Souls games so the death concept never made sense to me like it did to veterans of the series. Just kind of rolled with it.
I've never thought that I'd see a Syrian city in an elden ring video... but you've done it like three times. I can't comprehend how you link all the real world stuff together with the game.. truly amazing work
Amazing video as usual! Can you recommend any book/ material about ancient rome for a curious reader? I'm always amazed by the historic context in ur videos!
And there are people that says that Elden Ring has no story and that the lore is poor... The history, the plethora of cultures, the world itself is as rich and vast as it can get; a truly achievement of human imagination and creation. The thing is that the game doesn't spoon feed anything on the player and that's why people disqualify the rich narrative of the game. The history is there, ready to be discovered to those interested in dissect the archeology of the world of Elden Ring and at the same time people who are not interested on such "trivial" details, can have a blast thru the game only understanding the little lore they can get from a handful of cutscenes.
This video is sponsored by Atlas VPN's Summer Deal.
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I can’t help but notice some striking similarities between Scylla and Charybdis (from Greek mythology) in relation to the bestial sanctuary and the vortex/whirlpool next to it. I then stumbled upon a photo of The Rock of Scilla, Calabria, which bares a striking resemblance to the edge of the colosseums in Elden Ring. I was wondering what your thoughts on that might be?
Personally I can’t tell if it’s alluding to something more, if it’s just inspired by such mythology.
Also I love you channel, gives me a lot more insight on one of my all time favorites games and I truly appreciate all the hard work you put into your videos.
Much love
- Q
unrelated to this vid but have u noticed that the farum azula gold covered skeletons that are lying down on the ground and on the "tables"(at least in the beguinning parts) are of herbivores and not carnivores while the ones cuffed to the pilars are carnivores?? any thoughts on that?
Do you have a Discord or redit?
Let me just say I love the naturalistic education that comes in these videos. The flow isn't broken to explain achaeological terms or perspectives, but I still find myself understanding through context. Excellent work.
Beautifully worded my man 👍
You’re the #1 Elden Ring UA-camr when it comes to small details.
Small details always make up big pictures, much respect for you!
aggreeeddd....
Number one in general really
@@WeWillAlwaysHaveVALISyou don’t play souls games otherwise you wouldn’t be saying that
@Ghost-rv3ru ? I've been playing since Demons Souls and I'd rank TA either #1 or right near the top
smoughtown and quelaag do great content too, and as far as im aware these guys all keep in touch and share knowledge too, so making a competition out of it is rather fruitless imo
WAKE UP BABE NEW TARNISHED ARCHEOLOGIST VIDEO
ARISE, OH BABE! YE ASLEEP, WHO YET WAKE. THE CALL OF TARNISHED ARCHAEOLOGIST SPEAKS TO US ALL!
ARISE, YE WHO DOESN'T EXIST, WHO IS LIVETH ONLY IN MY MIND, WHOS TOUCH IS OF'ETH MY PALM
FUCK YEA BUD
Thnx bby
I'm awake I'm awake fuck
I just finished the first 5 mins of this video and i had forgotten i wasnt there to learn about funeral rights in our world and this was a video on elden ring
i honestly think if you did a video on a topic unrelated to it i'd still be really glued to it
(i am a fan of archeology though so maybe i'm an outlier)
but still i'm so happy this channel exists, thank you
I second this
THAT IS NOT ON THE ROAD TO BECOMING ELDEN LORD
@@okname5335 Heresy is not native to the world; it is but a contrivance. All things can be conjoined.
Looks like you weren't around to learn to spell "rites", either.
@@hyliadreamer look i love too things in this world voluntari typoes and involutnary types
You’re able to extract so much information that I’m not sure what’s more impressive, your analysis or the fact that they were able to build such an ecosystem of culture hidden in the game world. Fromsoft gameplay is unmatched, but the way they tell a story through community discovery and support this kind of content is what makes them truly incredible imo
Hello? Fallout exists too. But fromsoft and Bethesda definitely put the most love into their projects.
@@YamaXI Bethesda, the company that thinks that people can run a diner in the post-apocalypse, but not even bother to clear out the literal skeletons in the booths from over 100 years ago? They don't even come close to touching Fromsoft's world-building.
@@YamaXIwhat an unhinged comment, gobsmacked.
Fromsoft lore exploring is the definition of missing the forest for the trees. Then noticing the forest, only to get lost in the trees again.
One simple sentence phrased differently by someone else, and the entire understanding shifts.
3:46 That's the most devious griddy I've ever seen.
Another Tarnished Archeologist banger, as always.
Elden Ring came out about a year after I got worryingly into Bronze and Iron Age history was a transcendental experience and these videos are immensely gratifying, because i wasnt sure if i was imagining the similarities or not.
Historian and translator Tom Holland? Imagine being a devoted scholar and then having your legacy get overshadowed on Google by a hot guy who put on a spider suit
That just sounds like the world's sense of humor, to be honest.
Can we just appreciate how much real world history TA teaches us on top of the Elden Ring lore? I've never come across a channel that actually makes me feel like I come out of it smarter for learning about a video game's world development.
Also, I should know better than to click on a "part one" that came out earlier today... part two can't come soon enough.
I've been wanting to give you - and your accomplices, if you have any - a compliment. Not a native ENG speaker so if my choice of words seems funny, that's the reason. But here goes: your channel, and the way you present information as well as how you conduct yourself, has not only gotten me extremely interested in the world of Elden Ring, but also surprised at the level of depth involved in creative world design that started before the game was in full production. It's fantastic to realize that there are far more layers to the story that I realized, meaningful layers even, and that some things which seem out of place aren't always explained with "don't think about it too much, it's just a game" rhetoric (even if that sometimes probably is the case). As a huge bonus, I've learned something about our history and customs as well, and I thank you for that.
All of these observations and theories you put out there are so much more meaningful than just reading item descriptions out loud or coming up with a timeline of events like an accountant, without meaning or passion. Even if you were wrong about something, or even if you were wrong about most things, you still get my imagination going. Because of your work I have even more respect for the little details FromSoft puts in its games, and that childish spark of curiosity just lights up. You clearly care about what you're doing, you're clearly interested in all of this yourself. Same kind of energy, in a way, as another youtuber Bob the Hollow. The way he presents his lore videos is amazing too, you can sense there is a personal investment and curiosity there.
But I have a question about this video in particular. Forgive me if I'm dumb and I missed something you said, but what do you think was the reason for the original builders of the catacombs to build them around the roots, if there was no erdtree burial? Why is the presence of the roots necessary, let alone a huge chamber dedicated to them? Might it be a "it's just a game" situation, where it was just more economical for FromSoft to have more story elements packed into certain locations, or do you think it (the presence of the roots) plays an integral part to pre-erdtree death rituals?
Until TA can take the time to answer this, I can offer some speculation.
There is a lot of evidence and allegory to support that the Elden Beast, the Elden Ring, and the Erdtree are all, on some level, the same thing.
The evidence also points to the Erdtree being made from a fusion of the Elden Ring and the remains of the Great Tree. This gives us a hints at the predatory, or even sinister, nature of the Outer God the Golden Order ultimately serves.
To bring it back around to your question, tree related plant life often probes for resources with it's roots. When they encounter something of significant value, say the runes that make up a person, they reinforce growth in that area of the root system and swell in size and strength.
I imagine the answer to your question is t that hey weren't. They probably started as close to a traditional catacomb gets for this world. But the roots eventually found them, and the bodies/runes were so nourishing that they became a feature of them in later years.
"Might it be a "it's just a game" situation, where it was just more economical for FromSoft to have more story elements packed into certain locations" ??
As much as it is a very well rooted (ba dum tsss) world element, it's also a "just a game" situation. I'm a believer of game's archaeological evidence but I'm not a child to believe in fairy-tales about the impeccable FromSoft game design. Simply put - "Get f^cking real, will ya?" ER is a marvel as much as it is a sell-out, it's most saddening and impressive that it accomplished to be both.
(Also non-English speaker, hope I don't come off as rude. Although I am ;) 😁
I am exceedingly impressed at FromSoftware's level of detail and real world history being reiterated in Elden Ring's mythos but I am even *more* in awe in how TA manages to unveil this layer of Elden Ring's narrative. Truly representative of Miyazaki's love for the Occult. So much story hidden in plain sight but isn't realized unless someone unveils it for others. So glad to be following this channel!
I have a theory about the warrior jars that this video inspired. Put yourself in the shoes of a normal person in Elden Ring post shattering. People are starting to question and lose faith in the golden order and it's way of life including erdtree burial, but you still want a way to ensure that you and the people you care about are properly taken care of in death. So with the present societal order failing you look to past great civilizations for answers, civilizations like the Saint and Tree era. Looking to their catacombs leads you to urns and not knowing any better you misinterpret their use and just start putting your dead in jars, sometimes the same jars. Since you have been removed from the life cycle of the erdtree but still can't die because there is no death rune anymore, you get a fascimile of life, the jars taking on a "life of their own" seemingly separate from but I'm fact a consequence of the fact that there is no longer a distinction of separate people in the jar but a consistent corpse pudding. Maybe.
Fantastic! This is exactly how we think the development team goes about their world building.
Add a dash of minor Erdtree to the mix, and you get an internally-consistent narrative, which also mirrors IRL examples of post-collapse societies, unknowingly inventing syncretic culture through a desire to cling on to a previous glorious past. Attempts to reconstruct forgotten ways-of-old from their lingering remains often end up combining remains from several layers deep. As you describe, together with the new givens of the time, attempts to fit all those past elements together, elements that never before coexisted, ultimately creates something new. That is what we have here. Well seen!
@@tarnishedarchaeologist Yeah I definitely agree with you about the hook to fromsoft games is all the meticulous world building they do that they, that they then just toss out into the world to find if you want to. Makes you actually want to spend inordinate amounts of time starting at brickwork. Most fantasy you just appreciate that a thing is there and not wonder how or why. Your videos were definitely what opened my eyes to that kind of thing and my experience is much richer because of it. So, thanks for all the hard work. Keep it up! 😁
@@tarnishedarchaeologist Ah jeez! I really should finish a video before commenting. Just realized you pretty much said what I commented very shortly after I posted it lol. Well, if I have to share a hypothesis with anyone, this humble tarnished is honored to share it with the venerable Tarnarch!
I want to bring up: Erdtree burial was reserved for those who "deserved" it, such as heroes or nobles. It could be that some form of cremation is still practiced to this day, which can possibly explain Spirit "Ashes". I don't really believe the previous though, since fire is seen as so heretical in the Erdtree belief.
Edit: I really need to finish the video before I comment lmao
This channel was the push I needed to really get myself to explore Elden Ring (my first time playing a Fromsoft game)! I just wanted to see it all for myself. This is such an interesting channel 👏
When did you start exploring? I know you said this channel helped push you to do it but when did you start doing that? 🤔 I still find myself noticing details all the time. But yeah, I started looking harder after this channel started to publish its works 💖✨
It wasn't untill watching this channel that I started really looking at/thinking about the architecture within Elden Ring. Shortly after, I too noticed the seeming contradiction of having all the places for storing bodies in the catacombs, despite the prevalence of Erdtree burial. Couldn't figure it out though, so I'm glad you're covering this!!
I can't shake the thought that someone ordered a song as a remembrance of his deceased wife and 2200 years later we remember her. Not to mention the fact that the passing of around seventy generations between then and now validates these beautiful lyrics.
I believe that the deaths poker is actually designed to stoke and turn the burning bones, not remove them unconsumed from the fire (like a traditional poker). As the ghostflame torch description states that ghostflame is produced by burning the bones themselves.
One of these descriptions is mistranslated and it seems more likely that it is that of the poker. I would greatly appreciate it if you could get a second opinion on the japanese description for both.
Ghostflame Torch says 仲間の骨を燃やし, specifying that they burned their comrades bones.
Deaths Poker says 遺体の燃えがらを掻き出すという, that the birds rake out corpse embers/cinders/burnt residue.
But the poker is only describing what the birds do, it doesn't call out the poker itself. So you're likely correct that the birds used the poker to stoke and turn the burning bones.
However, I'd like to put forth another theory based on an alternate definition of ember, "Slowly dying or fading emotions, memories, ideas, or responses still capable of being revived."
Perhaps the birds were raking out the remembrances and/or souls of the dead while burning the bones. Perhaps those two actions are one in the same, which is why it produced a cold ghostflame.
@@Deadgye Thank you so much! That is a very cool and crucial detail.
The description is incidentally talking about how the birds collect something from the fire to be reused or reborn, not necessarily describing the function of the poker itself!
It seems that I was correct to some degree.
22:06 Wouldn't that rather mean that there's ash that actually returns to the Erdtree?
For example, the term Unpicked Fruit implies that there are other fruits that were picked up, otherwise there would be no need to create a specific term.
Ashes contain immortal essence (aka spirits), which is precisely what the Erdtree feeds on.
What if cremation is actually necessary for Erdtree Burial?
A cool thought - but I think that the bodies twined in the roots are clearly unburnt, so it can’t be a requirement. “Ash unreturned” could simply be drawing the comparison to other forms of corpse that are returned.
I interpret it as its *possible* for ash to be used for erdtree burial, like scattering it around the roots or on top of the groups of bodies- but not necessary. Perhaps some in the Lands Between are disturbed by the visual of their corpse getting absorbed like that.
So the way I see it, the spirit ashes dont have their magic power just because they're ash, but specifically because they're ash that hasnt been scattered on the roots. After all, why would anyone return the ash of a stormhawk or rotten stray to the erdtree?
This also could explain why we find Oleg in a burial chamber despite being ash. He's been cremated and prepared for burial- but for one reason or another, his ash hasnt been absorbed and the player can use it. Perhaps the Ulcerated Tree Spirit made it impossible for undertakers. Or perhaps the shattering stopped the process of absorption. Whatever the case, I believe Oleg and others in similar situations like Lhutel didnt have their cremation and erdtree burial as seperate processes across two different lives. If they did, both deaths would be of completely different people.
A Smoughtown AND a Tarnished Archiologist IN THE SAME WEEK?! Elden ring lore people are eating good can’t wait to watch this one man!
Damn, man! You as consistently teach me about the real world as you do the lands between. Positively titillated by that reference to the twin birds in Farum Azula. Great video!
Thanks!
This is the only channel that consistently blows my mind with each video
I always eagerly anticipate the next Tarnished Archaeologist video and I am a huge fan of the channel. I am currently working on a TTRPG system based on Elden Ring, and one of the most challenging and rewarding parts of that process has been trying to assemble a timeline of the world and enrich my personal understanding of its lore and factions so that I can serve as an effective worldbuilder and GM. In this way, your channel, in addition to Smoughtown, have been absolutely essential to my note-taking and research, and I want to thank you for the quality work you consistently put out. I don't always fully agree with a handful of your conclusions, but I wanted to let you know that I would not be able to continue with this project of mine without your excellent and informative content! I eagerly anticipate the next video, because the connection between the Twinbird and Farum Azula is a question I have been grappling with for some time.
However, I do have two questions that I hope you can take the time to answer. 1) If everyone is technically "born" of the Erdtree by virtue of Marika's and the Erdtree's grace, then how/why are Godwyn, Mohg, Morgott, and the rest of the Golden Lineage considered to be specifically Marika and Godfrey's children? I am not sure if that is something you ever touched on in your Erdtree births videos.
And 2) I'm still wrestling with the idea that you and Kosmos have put forward that the Gloam-Eyed Queen was in fact the previous god before Marika and therefore the god consort of Placidusax. If that is the case, then that means the ancient dragon empire would have spanned all the way back to the inception of the Great Tree roots up until the ascension of Marika and Godrey during the Crucible crown-sprouting period. That would also have to mean that Placidusax was Elden Lord and the GEQ was god during all of the other ancient empires you have discussed in other videos, such as the Ancient Dynasty, the Numan Eternal Empire, and the Saint-and-Tree empire that directly preceded the Crucible, and yet to my knowledge we see little if any dragon iconography within those strata. While there are certainly huge connections between specifically Stormveil and the ancient dragons/beastmen, I find it hard to believe that Placidusax was Elden Lord and the GEQ god during all of those different eras and dominant cultures. Instead, it seems more likely that the ancient dragon culture fell prior to the emergence of the Ancient Dynasty and the Great Tree, the fled god of Placidusax is unrelated to the GEQ, and that she was instead perhaps a rival Empyrean claimant during the Crucible era. What would you say to that?
So we basically have several funeral practices:
1. Beastmen practices excarnation in style of Zoroastrian tower of silence, combined with Varna burial practice.
2. And then ghostflame cremation of deathbird and the catacombs, with tightly packed tombstone on the surface probably for burying the severed finger. Given the burial watchdog breathe fire, able to use glintstone magic, and affected by crystal darts just like Golems, this suggests that this burial watchdog related or at the same time where Giants/ancient giants and astrologers thrives and live peacefully together
3. Sarcophagi burial, in catacombs or in the surface
4. Erdtree burial and subsequent use of Jars
5. Sarcophagi and spaces inhumation of Haligtree
6. Skeleton in boat, on watery section of Stormveil castle
7. Remember the eternal cities, you can transport between three cities using sarcophagus that can even ascend through waterfall, and in some sections, red ants seemingly eating and collecting dead bodies from wooden casket seemingly carried by river flow to their domain
One thing to note in the opening, you see the corpse of Gideon Ofnir, submerged between ears and several eyes, overlookes by creature, seemingly imps. Does that mean they also manage his revival and sendoff to real world in Lands Between?
I really appreciate your separation of the different practices, especially your connection between the deathbirds and the catacombs via cremation. That’s a really excellent catch.
I’m still not sure the Minor Erdtrees have to be post-Shattering, because there’s a Minor Erdtree Church built before the Shattering (since Marika spoke there). I stand by my theory that they’re clonal sprouts from the root network.
This would upset the jar timeline a bit.
In his timeline the shattering is followed by radagons rise. So the words in the Minor Erdtree church are likely radagons, and there's actually plenty of clues that point to this. The voice doesn't speak with the authority or phrasings associated with marika, golden centipedes are found by the church, and are also found by radagon statues. The golden order seal can be found there which is ties to radagon's golden order principia.
@@swordierre9341 I think the idea that Marika’s spoken words there are Radagon’s still contradicts the way Marika and Radagon have remained within the tree and the impenetrable thorns; Marika imprisoned, Radagon trying and failing to repair the Elden Ring.
@@WanderedIn Alternatively, the Elden Ring has been shattered more than once throughout history. There have been cycles of great tree destruction and regrowth, so it is not unlikely there have been accompanying cycles of shattering and repair of the Elden Ring. This would explain why depictions of the Ring change across the different historical stratum; the Ring was shattered, but then rebuilt into that form.
@@MutantHeadcrab I think that’s a significant step too far - we have textual references to the uniqueness of the Shattering across the game, and the previous changes in the Ring are easily explained by events like Marika’s creation of the Golden Order by removing the Rune of Death. The golden seeds are said to have been impossible to imagine, and Marika as something God itself intended to be ‘Eternal’ is crucial to the thematic point that what ‘should have been’ eternal cannot be. If the cycle is shattering after shattering, then the story is muddled; the moment of breaking the cycle would not really suggest the possibility of real change (or real despair, or the restoration of the cycle).
Also, it seems to require the God of the Age to betray the Elden Ring to shatter it, since it was Marika alone who did it, in the end. Let us give her credit for originality, in attempting suicide by cosmic destruction.
I just want to say thanks for the great content and thanks for putting part # in the title. Too many youtubers these days just do clickbait titles and you can't tell what's part of a series or not nor in what order.
I always thought the winged scyth was in reference to the cleanrot Knights because they have those white things hanging down that look like moth wings. Also in the Haligtree (for example in the prayer room) there are statues of little angles everywhere so that could be a connection.
Malenia does have the winged depiction in winged sword talisman, and millicent get's to be transformed into a Valkyrie should you plant her.
its very possible Miquella believes in whatever pagan religion the white-winged maidens originate from (assuming its not the deathbird religion because they just dont really fit there).
After all, one of the greatest mysteries in Elden Ring is what EXACTLY Miquella believes in; he quite randomly implements Carian icons in his work, he uses a new form of reincarnation through cocoons, he clearly has rejected or reformed a lot of Golden Order/Erdtree beliefs, etc etc.
And then theres the dlc concept art's ruined churches that share the same double helix stonework found on trina's torch, which might imply that Miquella/Trina himself is being worshipped too
I think the winged scythe belongs to an older level of strata (as tarnished archelogist would put it) than the time of Malenia and the Haligtree. Wings in general are a part of a lot of death religions in elden ring, like on the Mausoleum Knight gear. Most likely Miquella is borrowing/appropriating a lot of elements from earlier strata to support his Haligtree faction's claim as the erdtree's successor
@@ethanwashington6789 From what I've been able to work out, Miquella has a male body but most likely a female soul, which is why he appears in dreams as St. Trina as (possibly) a woman. The goal of the Haligtree is a sort of magical switcheroo to take his sister Malena's place and become the next God (because otherwise Malenia's rot will turn the lands between into more Caelid). This gets interrupted by Mohg, who keeps seeing St. Trina in his dreams and becoming obsessed with them, and then somehow kidnapps Miquella to start his own faction around him as the Formless Mother.
(there's a lot of gender stuff around Miquella so I'm kind of playing fast and loose with pronouns)
Again, I'm without the knowledge base to add to the discussion on top of what you and others have said, but I'm nevertheless flabbergasted by just how much there is to learn in your content. The best I can offer is my like, subscription, comment, and most of all, my appreciation in what you all are doing with this channel. Thank you.
I only just started the video, but that long shot of the statue at the beginning made my jaw drop because I realized it might be fucking grace. Not Golden Order grace, but probably something along the lines of the deathbirds, similar to the ambient red grace in the mountain of the Giants
Exactly!
I love how in all your videos, when you communicate things that are new to me, my response is rarely a mind-blowing "wow, that unbelievable, what a twist!" but more often a "oh, that actually makes a lot of sense, and is really cool".
I always learn something new with your videos, not only about Elden Ring, but about humanity itself as the inspiration behind this amazing game. Thanks!
Dude! Great timing of the Dies Irae theme in reference to the funerary rites of ancient cultures!
Last night I finished a full rewatch of all the episodes. Perfect timing
Thank you so much for including English subtitles! We all appreciate the time and effort it takes❤
I love your content. I got a good laugh out of the captions at 24:09 though. I'm picturing the family ceremonially mounting the finger for a week.
Dude, awesome video as always!
I'd take one point though, both Lhutel and Oleg EARN an Erdtree burial rather than actually HAVING one... this actually goes back to your serpent video pointing out how Lithuanian kings converted while still practicing 'pagan' rituals.
This kinda makes sense if you consider the idea of someone like Oleg, if compared as a crusading night as an allegory for their essentially transitioning to mercenaries, earning Erdtree burial but rejecting it would make a lot of sense.
It would be a bit like the Varangian secretly arranging a Scandinavian funeral rite, perhaps even tolerated given the politics of the era
The more I watch your channel, the more I'm convinced that one of the major issues with The Lands Between is specifically the rune of death and it's treatment by the Golden Order. It's hard to tell what the situation between life and death was before the Golden Order got its mitts on the rune of death, but once they started trying to work around it/negate it, that's when seems like all this funky stuff where people couldn't die properly seems to stem from. Additionally, its use in bringing down the Golden Order seems to have not been a full reversal of its containment, but only a partial relaxing of it. Which, again, further messes with its normal operation. That's where you, the player come on the scene: the rune of death is trying to do its normal thing, but it can't any more because of the state it has been forced into by a whole lot of people who have been trying to cheat it for a very long time. Yeah, it would suck to let death go back to doing its normal thing - likely lots of people would die - but I think that would also alleviate so much of the sort-of-dead-but-not-really that so many of the inhabitants seem to be suffering under.
#FreeTheRuneOfDeath XD
Over the past week I binged all your videos, this is the first one I'm catching on premiere, so I'm excited. I'm belling for your content now, man, it's just too good. Each one is a profound learning experience. I need more more more! MORE! Always! Forever!
Amazing as always, thank you for the incredible amount of quality content. Your channel makes me happy
The Lands Between must reek. You're approach is fascinating, love the videos.
Many thanks!
First off, I would like to say your movies are absolutely astonishing. I watch them constantly and on repeat. Do you have any other videos or work we can view? Much love and keep up the amazing work!
These videos are amazing--love the analysis, the storytelling in the narrative flow, and the tie-ins to real-life historical practices. Thanks for putting these out and can't wait to continue watching!
Damn. Aside from the absolute informative blast that the video is - as usual - one cannot overlook the artistic sensitivity to open the video with that song. These vids really are work of art.
Thanks!
I can't express how much joy seeing one of these videos brings me.
9:00 I this perhaps why the Frenzied Flame is so hated? It burns away body and soul?
Yep
These videos highlight the absolute genius of the writers and developers of the game and their clue dropping to the sheer brilliance of the lore hunters to decipher it! honestly mindblowing stuff
Wow I was just binge watching your videos and see a new one came out, what a treat :"D
"...Thus the historian and translator TOM HOLLAND (??)" lol a web of surprises
great video as always and always love to hear a Sinclair lore shout out. but I realllly hope you okayed it with Sophie before using her dead name.
Yeahh, I felt the same. I don't think it was intended harmfully even if it wasn't cleared first, but I'd be much more comfortable if it was
@@ElodieCunningham I don't think it's usually intended harmfully but such is the nuance of empathy.
@@legallearnedgoron very much agreed
Cringe
@@bennygohome4576OK boomer
If only my social studies teacher could’ve mixed elden ring with real world events I might have paid this much attention.
You know, I just realised, I like your content so much I'm willing to sit here through the promotion without skipping over it...
Fantastically detail-oriented work as always!
As a suggestion for a future opening song I bring you a niche norwegian folksong called "Heiemo og Nykkjen" by Kirsten Bråten Berg, it has a great mood which would fit perfectly as one of your opening songs for a future eerie topic.
So happy I found this channel. What incredible work. It’s almost like Elden Ring is a reimagining if our own history. So excited for the DLC and more analysis videos of whatever it adds to the story. Thanks for this amazing content. It’s so detailed it’s like attending a University lecture. There should be irl classes on this subject.
Thank you for covering this topic. I noticed their varying burial rituals, but I have never thought about why are there so many vastly different ones.
Oh my god I'm so early- AND IM SO HAPPY :D Thanks for another upload so soon! I love listening to these on my way home from work. Makes it so much more fun.
I've defended Herodotus so many times I'll just rewrite what I usually do here quickly. He was writing down what people told him, not specifically what was 100% verifiably true in most cases. I think it's way cooler we have those stories than strictly exactly what happened, Herodotus is exactly what I hope an ancient "historian" would have been. He had some real history, some half true history, and some not true history. All of it immensely valuable and all of it incredibly interesting. I respect his travels, his skill, his dedication, and the man himself.
Thanks for another great video.
Agreed!
Trotting through the richly-detailed cities of Sanctuary, listening to your epoch--can recommend, 10/10
I always name my character "Samsara" in From software games because I die so many times before achieving moksha.
Some thoughts:
The Romans also used wedding rings to link one spouse to another spouse via a finger which, they believed, had a nerve that went directly to the heart.
Deathbed companions are similar to the alchemical belief in ancient China and Japan that an older man sleeping chastely beside a young maiden might restore life to the older/dying man. There is also the story of Abishag in the Torah where Abishag would lay in bed with elderly David to keep him warm and restore his energy. When Fia embraces us she remarks that we are "very warm." And what does she do? She takes part of our life, perhaps using it in the hope of imparting it to Godwyn's corpse.
Elden Stars states that the Elden Ring would eventually become the Erdtree, yet Life existed before the Erdtree (as evidenced by the ancient burials, ghostflames, etc.) so does that mean the Greater Will coopted Life by using the Elden Ring? Did Life exist in the Lands Between before the Greater Will asserted itself? Is Gold really essential to Life or is it like the phantasms in Bloodborne, augmenting Life for its own purposes?
The Egyptians are the ones who discovered that nerve, actually.
The Elden Ring may be the ‘root’ or the Golden Order, but that does not mean that’s all it’s been. Farum Azula suggests the ER predates it.
@@jannafrancis7452 but is Farum Azula the oldest part of the Lands Between? The tombs all around the LB may be older. There may have even been a time before the Crucible, perhaps a time when the Crystallians and the Onyx/Alabaster Lords existed, born in the Primeval Current. After all, "primeval" literally translates to "first age".
Your channel inspires a lot of us to keep discussing and searching for things in Elden Ring and feel like being a part of it. Even though you're setting up your own framework fundamentally based on archaeology, I believe a channel for discussions just for viewers like a discord for members is a nice idea.
The same way that a network of untrained or partially trained amateur astronomers once in a while find important things for big institutions like NASA, I think a place where your viewers (a.k.a. the untrained archaeologists) can discuss things they found might once in a while be nice for some footnotes in your content
Finally, the second most important question I've had since turning the game on!
I felt something i havent felt in a long time, a pang of genuine guilt, when Jarburg was shown.
It makes so much sense that you would be a fan of Bloodbourne up close. I watched their videos some time ago and felt like Elden Ring would greatly benefit from someone taking a similar look at it. Thank you for taking up that mantle.
Holy crap congrats on the sponsor. Glad to see you're getting opportunities.
your openings are just otherworldly man. i really love your videos, thank you for making them
You guys knock it out of the park every single time.
No lie a video from you is just what I needed today, bless you and all who see it.
Amazing video, I aswell found the caskets and urns strange, thanks for unearthing this mystery! I think the culture that built the catacombs could be the giants, the crystal dart affects their creations all, that's to say golems, imps and watchdogs. And it makes sense that a fire god would want a funeral of flames. I think farum azula use the icon of the deathrite bird for the same reason as the raven assassins, that culture was so prominent that the birds became icons of death for following cultures.
Another bit of ghostfire is the skeletons around hermit merchant's shack in Altus Plateau can vomit ghostfire, and they have the rarest shield in the game, sun realm shield and it's seen better days. But as the deathrite bird seems modeled after the phoenix, well a sun god isn't out of place as their master.
I don't know about the giants. Crystal darts seem associated with the crystalians who seem largely confined to the Sellia/ Raya Lucaria empire. We don't see crystalians in the mountaintops. Otherwise it'd be a shoe-in. What is the connection between crystalians and the astrologers, anyway? Perhaps the crystalians were made by astrologers of a later age.
@@Xandros999 We do know the astrologers lived with the giants, as per night and fire sword: "Astrologers, who preceded the sorcerers, established themselves in mountaintops that nearly touched the sky, and considered the Fire Giants their neighbors." and to quote the crystal dart "Long ago, it is said that a golem crafter employed a similar crystal tool."
Cliffhanger ending has me itching for the next episode.
I’ll never go through another catacomb the same way again now lol
Whilst you didn't touch much upon the stormveil boat burials, I have to congratulate you for not presuming it's movie "viking burial" by burning a boat at sea. But rather buried the entire boat with a person. My pet theory is the Tibia Mariner are these graves being afflicted by deathroot.
19:42 - An interesting cultural point about the practices of contemporary Western cremation: we seem largely comfortable with "bad things" happening as long as they largely occur out of sight. I doubt many today would enjoy watching their loved ones' cremated bones be crushed up. A lot of people would probably even object to it if they were intimately involved in the process. This is similar to a lot of other things in contemporary society. Agriculture and food production come to mind, where people love eating meat but are extremely grossed out and uncomfortable with most of the practices that go into producing it. Other consumer goods have the same issue. Most people would be disturbed by the labor that goes into making their products.
What these all have in common is an extreme alienation from production. If one does not wish to think about how their food is made, they never have to engage with it. You can buy your meats, vegetables, and other snacks pre sorted, washed, and packaged nicely for sale. In the same way, we aren't actually involved in much of our practical funerary rites. People plan the events and give speeches but do not deal with the bodies or burials themselves. As such, the appearance of the end result matters more than what goes into "producing" it. There is little spiritual significance to cremation. Some religious practices insist on whole body burial, but that's more tradition than a spiritual belief that preserving the body is important to the enduring soul or whatever.
To get back on the subject of Elden Ring, it's surprising that the age of the Ghostflame bothered with building catacombs. The invocation of birds as being the bearers of the Ghostflame seems very linked with carrion bird or consumption based funerary practices. Afaik, funerary practices like these are most common in cultures with low attachment to physical objects of remembrance and/or low attachment to physicality in general. If Death Birds are the ones "administering" death, and which bear the Ghostflame used for cremation - how would the ashes end up in pots which are then kept in catacombs for safe keeping and visitation?
The best explanation that I can think of is that perpetual animation of the body is the norm in the Lands Between. Perhaps the only way to prevent someone from going on to "live in death" as a sort of dark souls-esque hollow is to invoke a greater power for destruction of the soul. The Ghostflame is described as being cold, which might mean that it is not as good at burning flesh as it is at burning souls. The implication being that the Ghostflame is collected by people from the Death Birds and then used for Ghostflame cremation to prevent eternal animation.
Erdtree burial, as well, is the process of returning the soul to the Erdtree to remain in the cycle moreso than it is a way to deal with corpses.
I dunno, though. Could be way off base!
Myasaki is a social scientist, grrm loves antropology and social sciences in general, só its fitting that their atention to historical in game details are so good
Amazing work as always from the best ER content creator out there! Wish I could contribute to the speculation about the lore but this is all I got 😂
In the midst of anticipation, Tarnished Archaeologist strikes with a new video.
Thank you. I appreciate the time you take to make this possible. A historian gamer = gold.
That opening song. It always brings a tear to my eye.
Beautiful stuff.
always the best from this channel
Yes! 🙌🏿 came for knowledge, stayed for cool intro music!
The glory of the tarnished archaeologist work has not ceased.
I wonder if Miyazaki and RR Martin are like “wow, why didn’t we think of that?!” Excellent work as always 🤝
Writing truly is just putting something down, something else down and then going
Huh this middle thing seems cool and it feels like it works
And you slot it in and then bam. A whole system has evolved.
of course if you dont think about it or try to link bits together at all it falls apart-
But I doubt they were thinking of it THAT deeply. It seems to be a constant with writers
@@elvingearmasterirma7241 I do think that TA is great with his videos but i have to admit i think he is reading into alot of stuff a bit deeper than the world building and story writers really intended at times.
Yes and no 💯 they do, fricking Zaki and Martin. Eh.
Miyazaki surely thinks more about the lore than about the game, he probably has this all figured out.
Martin probably only wrote the names of characters so he must be scratching his head.
😂
this is so useful for writing (i just write silly oc stories set in elden ring) but seriously these videos are so helpful! thank you!!!
Thank you so much for the videos, i have been rewatching all from oldest to newest and i totally fell in love with all of them, almost feels like counting the days 🤣 i am dying to watch the following, keep up with excellent work!
Getting two Tarnished Archologist vids in such quick succession, it's not even my birthday yet :D
22:59 The roots might have simply not yet called them to be absorbed. After all, the ashes haven't even returned to the Erdtree.
I always found interesting how life triws to adapt to fill the niche left for the ridance of death as maybe the case with the living jars and for example in caelid after the bloom with the rune of death removed and life unable to die being corrupted and twisted by the scarlet rot just couldn't afford the luxury of an agonizing death but had to twist itself to live alongside the rot and even incorporating it into their lives somewhat similar to Chernobyl wildlife adapting to the radiation irradiated exclusion zone
About to be on a plane for 5.5 hours had to make sure I downloaded this one thanks Tarnished Archeologist 🙏
If cremation is incompatible with Erdtree burial, why do we find spirit ashes (literally "ashen remains") of people who were given Erdtree burial? (Oleg, Kristoff, Lhutel, maybe more)
A welcome breakdown. Since very early the Lands Between have reminded me of the Necropolis Litharege from Neil Gaiman's Sandman.
I think there is a lot more to the Living Jars than you give them credit for. It is perhaps possible that the Erdtree repurposed them, if that is in fact the Erdtree Seal, but the tradition of the jar burial seems to be something much older and connected to the coliseums. The seal is the most easily changed component of the jar. Perhaps it is true that the Minor Erdtrees were more recently grown from seed, but it really does seem that the jars were associated with earlier trees that stood on those spots and were cut down.
Seeing as alot of the same jars are broken and empty around minor erdtrees, chances are they are used to transport corpses and maybe even compost them for use by the trees.
I might disagree with the timeline but I do love your intros.
So much good music and angles.
Your videos are always so informative and interesting. I appreciate immense time and efforts you spend making these videos. Great job ❤
I've learned so much history from just being an Elden Ring fan
History mixed with myth. Just like the notion that From can make an open and cohesive game world 😉
Still, good for us (channels like the Tarnished Archaeologist) 👍
4:15 The SHADE on Indiana Jones is glorious 😂
If there was ever a video I needed it's this one. ER www as my first foray in Souls games so the death concept never made sense to me like it did to veterans of the series. Just kind of rolled with it.
Stunning and wonderful as always
Easily the best Elden Ring youtuber. A real treasure for us nerds!
I've never thought that I'd see a Syrian city in an elden ring video... but you've done it like three times.
I can't comprehend how you link all the real world stuff together with the game.. truly amazing work
Amazing video as usual!
Can you recommend any book/ material about ancient rome for a curious reader? I'm always amazed by the historic context in ur videos!
It always struck me as odd that "Death" is always capitalised like its a proper noun.
Makes you wonder about "Those who live *in* Death." 👀
Fascinating. Really excellent work.
And there are people that says that Elden Ring has no story and that the lore is poor... The history, the plethora of cultures, the world itself is as rich and vast as it can get; a truly achievement of human imagination and creation. The thing is that the game doesn't spoon feed anything on the player and that's why people disqualify the rich narrative of the game. The history is there, ready to be discovered to those interested in dissect the archeology of the world of Elden Ring and at the same time people who are not interested on such "trivial" details, can have a blast thru the game only understanding the little lore they can get from a handful of cutscenes.