I've had to read the arguments for and against Orientalism in 3 different courses. Orientalist art isn't problematic because it depicts every day life. It's problematic when it continued to depict the middle east as static, frozen in time at the height of the Ottoman Empire. I've done research on historical fashion of the middle east. It was mandatory in the Ottoman Empire since 1850 to wear western dress. You can see photographs and read travel accounts of people discussing how people of the middle east dressed. Prior to then, during the 1810's when the Balkans were taken over by Russia, locals immediately adopted western dress and had western style fashion houses in under 2 years. Also the Middle East was incredibly diverse during the 18th and 19th century because Christians and Jews also lived there and had their own styles of dress. You rarely see depictions of those people's in art from Western artists during this period. I will not say that every artist was trying to depict what they dreamed. But it is hard to accept that most artists were portraying reality in their work due to restricted access. There are paintings that depict nonsense Arabic or imaginative squiggles on the walls of mosques. There are paintings of women in Turkish baths that no men would have been allowed to enter. Many depictions of harems are also a male artist's idea of what it would look like, as only males allowed inside were eunuchs and family members. Many women are portrayed to be scantily clad or nude, when that would have gone entirely against their religious and social values. We can't simply brush all of this off and say artists were depicting what they saw. Art can depict reality, but artists also depict what they dream. Both can exist and be true at the same time.
And don't forget that most artists paint what they can easily sell. The tradition of covertly salacious images in disguise (such as fake "harem" scenes) goes back much further than "orientalism" - many a buxom virgin and child or classical goddess was painted to be ogled.
People in Japan wear western clothes all the time. It doesn't mean they stopped wearing kimono. Also, the artists weren't selling their paintings as documentary evidence of how the sultan's court looked in the 1860s. It's almost like there's a phrase for that... artistic license! Squiggles are a time honored tradition. Yes, let us blame these artists for not first becoming fully fluent in Arabic and not getting every dot, dash, and hamza correct. A law must be issued to stop artists from making squigglies that suggest the presence of writing! Do you know what men fantasize about besides the Roman empire? Wow, a guy painted a picture of a hot woman in a exotic setting. Truly that is awful and has never been done before except by these terrible European painters. What depraved perverts lol. Where are you getting that all of these are documentary pieces? Some are obviously fantastical. The works aren't entitled "Reporting live from the Harem Peephole - Odalisque Slumber Party, 1852" But maybe being purposefully obtuse is what allows your fantasy to work.
@@casimirgythe2181 thing about art is that it influences how people think and approach a subject. The middle east narratively in the west has *consistently* been stereotyped as a mysterious land full of oppressed women and hostile warlike men who need other people to solve their problems for them. The ottoman empire was considered a western power, but also like a child trying to impersonate one at the same time. "Orientalism" by Edward Said for a better understanding. You may also find "The Question of Orientalism" by Bernard Lewis to show some insight into how Orientalists bristled at Said's arguments. Definitely give a look at "At All the Shah's Men" for insight into how the US overthrew Iranian Democracy in the 1940's to protect them from communism, but in reality was trying to let Britain maintain control over their natural resources. When it comes to fetishization of Muslim Women, feel free to endure the condescension of the author in "Do Muslim Women Need Saving?" "Re-Presenting the Harem: Orientalist Female Artists and the 19th century Ottoman Empire" by Megan McDaniel and "Gender, Orientalism and the War on Terror" by Maryam Khalid may also be enlightening. But if you really want insight into how perception of the middle east impacts how the people who live their are treated, look no further than "Iran Awakening" by Shirin Ebadi and the French animated film "Persepolis". I am not saying the art is bad or completely racist. I am saying that the bias of every person influences their work and understanding of the world. Art can be used for propaganda as much as it can be used to educate or inspire. Take a look at how people from the middle east are portrayed in film and media have been portrayed in the last 25 years. How often are they given the role of heros or nuanced protagonists? Even in the animated version of Alladin, the opening song calls their culture barbaric. One can't ignore the fact that perceptions of a nation, a religion, or a people as whole loses its context and nuance if a mass majority of media upholds stereotypes. Japan has its own nuance and context too. From how it responded to western infiltration. To chosing to adopt western culture and technology in the idea of "if you can't beat them, join them". The western world consumes media that Japan has put out. Japan is not viewed as poor 3rd world country that hasn't progressed since the 18th century. The Roman empire is seen as the ancestor of the western world. Its seen as the inheritance of the West, a power that shaped our ideas and notions of several nations identies. It's fetishization is based off the art Rome itself produced. The middle east has not been extended that same courtesy despite its preservation of Greek and Roman texts during the european Dark Ages. Art can be appreciated for the sake of art. But it doesn't exist in a bubble. It's a response. You are right people do depict random squiggles all the time. That's why people didn't want to give credit to the peoples of the mezzo or South American the credit for founding and building their own ancient monuments. Many of the first depiction of Mayan script have elephants and other Hindu elements. Things that we're not actually in the glyphs standing right in front of them. Still, those artists continued to perpetuate the theory that it was another known civilization that created these structures. Ever heard of people claiming things like the pyramids or nazca lines were made by aliens? Yeah. That comes from the notion that western people are the only civilizations capable of being smart enough to build incredible things. Hark back to the Romans. Nobody claims the colloseum was made by aliens. Because that's considered nonsense.
Thank you for adding research and informed opinion to these comments. The title of this video uses the word “nuance,” and you’ve added a bit more nuance to this discussion. People may agree or disagree, but you definitely have added to the discourse. Thanks!
For those unfamiliar with Said, here's wikipedia's description of this book: "Orientalism is a 1978 book by Edward W. Said, in which the author establishes the term "Orientalism" as a critical concept to describe the West's commonly contemptuous depiction and portrayal of The East, i.e. the Orient. Societies and peoples of the Orient are those who inhabit the places of Asia, North Africa, and the Middle East. Said argues that Orientalism, in the sense of the Western scholarship about the Eastern World, is inextricably tied to the imperialist societies who produced it, which makes much Orientalist work inherently political and servile to power.[1]" As others have noted, its definitely more nuanced than Julian's comment, and not strictly related to art. if you are interested in these ideas or feel defensive of the art/artists (Said is not arguing about the beauty of the art, but about its relationship to colonial power structures) i would encourage reading Said's work or looking at other scholarship on Orientalism.
The problem with critical theories is that the moment you put on that lens, everything becomes problematic because of the theory's bias. If you have a painting that is a caricature of the people and is portraying them in false light or obviously racist stereotypes then yes, Said might have a point. But if the painting is of a Moroccan man sitting at a table during the day, then no it's idiotic to then ascribe the horrors of colonial legacy to that work. Some works are just as they appear, a wonderful composition with a striking subject. Other works can be very political. But to confuse the two is to be purposefully stupid or malevolent in an attempt to manipulate people. Were there artists that could be described as Said is suggesting, yes sure, is every work and every artist doing that, obviously not. As the title of the video implies, "Radical Nuance" each work and each artist has its own nuance. Reductively dumping them all into a set of "problematic/colonial/racist/sexist/etc" art is a tired, stupid, and boring technique used by Marxist 101 undergrads and those under its influence to create windmills for their Quixotic delusional crusade against fake made up problems. I would encourage other people before reading anything to look at the painting, look at how it portrays the subject, to think about the artist who spent time painting it, and then ask themselves, if I was the subject and saw this work, would it offend me? If your answer is no, then you probably don't need to do extra research to find out why you should be offended or why you a century plus later, a culture different, and sitting thousands of miles away should be offended on behalf of the subject.
@@JacquesDeLeon it's not just "another opinion", it's cancel culture. And yes, that is stupid to - reductively dump everything into a category of 'problematic', and to then go on a crusade.
@belneste there is a big difference between being critical of something and 'canceling' it. As an anthropologist, it's important to understand that some, and the original comment does say much, art will show the sitter in different views that correlate with the painter's view on the society. You have to try and understand the implicit bias (which is subconcious) to figure out if an artwork is true to fact or not. One also has to separate their own bias' from the work they do in order to keep it from corrupting the work. It's also important to understand that not everyone is viewing this art. Art used to be seen as something only those in high society, those with money and power, viewed. Therefore they'd influence those parts of the world based on their ideas of what was existing there. So if an artist paints a simple scene, but imparts his bias of it being riddled with poverty, this can be done with colors chosen or the placement of shadows that western viewers would subconsciously read as 'poor', then the person buying the art will assume the sitter is poor, or unhygienic. Being critical of a system, like how we know that brain capacity between people doesn't really effect intelligence but they believed it did in the 1800s, doesn't mean we can't improve upon it and take the bits that work out, like how there's sometimes roughly a 25cc brain capacity difference between males and females and in some cases that helps investigators identify missing and dead people. Cancel culture would be throwing the whole system out, and erasing it from history, much like the ancient Egyptians did to pharaohs they didn't like, not finding the issues with a system and setting about fixing it, which can only come through being critical.
lmao responses to this comment appear to sum up to“don’t read critical theory because it’ll turn you woke” people still getting upset about Said generations after his work was integrated into serious thinking on these topics and we all moved on
You can love something and think it is problematic. We can be grateful for his work and know that he was participating in perpetuating harmful stereotypes. We can know his intention was good, but that his impact was varied. If someone says something is problematic, please consider using an and/both viewpoint instead of an either/or viewpoint. It will help us view this work of art as a whole in a web of complex history, instead of something wholly good or bad. As a long time watcher, I think you usually strive for seeing that complexity and I value that. This time, you might have oversimplified a bit.
That's simple presentism. How dare people in the time they live behave as if they're not future people! If you look at what is being shown, the works are a wide variety of genre paintings. They're no more problematic than those painted by the Netherlandish masters. Said's point is uselessly reductive and prevents anyone not from the region from painting anything of that region. That's essentialism on steroids and does nothing for the art historical value of these pieces. The works are tremendous as they are windows into these times and places. Your present day opinion on colonialism or whatever you're channeling doesn't have anything to do with these painters who obviously took extreme care to render their subjects in a way faithful to what they saw and encountered. Have you ever been to some of these places? They are striking, and wonderful, and exotic, and beautiful. Imagine what it would be like at the time of the painting when you can't instantly watch travel videos or scroll through Instagram feeds to become jaded. Said's critique of Orientalism is a cover for his politics and its refreshing to see someone like Julian push past the bog standard academic narrative and deal with these paintings and painters on their own terms and merits.
@@casimirgythe2181: I'm afraid you completely missed the point and it doesn't look like you understand more nuanced than "black or white" opinions, so I'll leave it at this: no, the world doesn't work that way. The fact that humans did reprehensible or just... a bit worse than "morally ambiguous" things in the past doesn't mean that they were faultless or that their deeds were harmless just because a certain type of behaviour was more widely accepted (then again - more widely accepted by which social groups? those whose voice mattered? and accepted or suffered in silence because there was no choice? etc, etc) or that certain terms didn't exist or weren't widespread back then.
@@Airsaber Do you understand why presentism is a logical fallacy? And what EXACT reprehensible thing are you suggesting Coutts did other than paint a wonderful picture? Can you actually defend your claim? Be precise now, I'd like to know how it is you've come by this knowledge that gives you the authority to make such a claim. Or are you just painting him in your own black and white colors of oppressor/oppressed? No one suggested that people haven't done bad and evil things. Obviously they have, but not all people are bad and evil. Sometimes a painting of a Moroccan man is just a painting of Moroccan man. Unless you actually know when and when not to apply a critical lens, you're going to make the mistake of assigning things as being "problematic" when its just your own bias on display.
@@casimirgythe2181: Yep, unfortunately you didn't get the point. I suggest re-reading the comments not agreeing with the rather flippant/dismissive tone re: the aforementioned book and term. And I'm afraid that you are the only person talking about this who writes comments that suggest that the author of said comments sees things in black and white. Nobody else here is talking in such absolutes - on the contrary, people are asking for more nuance.
Honesty i love the way Julian narrates his process to cater to anyone so first yime viewers will understand it, instead of just saying its a hot table you all have seen it 200 times now.
As a Moroccan specifically from Tangier "The bride of the north" born and raised watching your videos for years, this was the least expected restoration ever! Tangier has a history of attracting renowned painters and artists. The city's unique cultural blend, picturesque landscapes, and vibrant atmosphere have made it an appealing destination for artists seeking inspiration. Notable painters and artists, such as Henri Matisse and Eugène Delacroix, have been drawn to Tangier for its artistic inspiration. Additionally, American expatriate artists, like Paul Bowles and Tennessee Williams, spent time in Tangier, further contributing to the city's reputation as a hub for creative minds.
@furrymessiah that's what I'm saying. Keep that woke $hit somewhere else. Lol. I'm an artist and what's truly amazing is that most artist just painted what they observed. They honestly could not have cared at all about being racist or any of that stuff. When your painting you have to focus, and you also have to love what your painting. People are just looking for an argument in the comments.
A beautiful portrait! Really not a fair assessment of Edward Said's work or thesis at the beginning, however, which overshadowed this video for me. Said dedicated his life to understanding how colonized people were represented by colonizers in colonial-era literature particularly. The complex dynamics between interpersonal relationships (which may be positive) and broader power structures (which were overwhelmingly exploitative - including in North Africa) are a huge part of what Said discusses across volumes of his work. I would recommend rather that accepting the summary provided here, people should read Said's work for themselves.
Yes it is incredibly naive and anyone who’s engaged with the field of study would laugh at this casual dismissal of one of the most important sociological authors of the 20th century.
Yeah, agreed, I was a bit saddened that this argument was presented so onesided and comically overblown. People can still agree or disagree, but flattening down the argument because you don't agreee with it is always a bad look.
@@ChrisGalardi I studied Said and was repulsed by his work. Not that some of the implications weren't merited, but his work was what was one-sided - not our reactions to it.
Cool thing about the varnish, is even if it's old and yellow - the fact you can remove it and see such bright colors underneath says the varnish totally did its job.
@@ordulf7193 Yeah I just mean, the major purpose of varnish is to protect a painting. That's what it did. It just also happened to yellow after some time lol!
This may be my favourite painting that you've restored. So beautiful, subtle and full of contemplation. Truly an exceptional artist who took great care in capturing this scene originally and an exceptional conservator who has now preserved it so that it can be enjoyed for years to come!
It amazes me how, especially fabric, can go from a flat, almost cartoonish, look to a pillowy flowing fabric, simply by removing the varnish. Makes me wonder how all the paintings I've stared at in my life actually were supposed to look.
It's because it flattens out the values (shading). A lot of the sense of depth in a drawing is carried by reproducing the patterns light forms when it hits a geometric form. old varnish, especially as it collects dust, converges the whole image to a kind of middle gray because light is reflecting off the accumulated dust. If you pay attention to the before and afters you can see that the dark parts of the paintings get darker just as the light parts get lighter, that contrast between light and dark is really import to making the 3d illusion work. source: am art student
This is one of the most striking paintings I've ever seen. Among all the paintings I've seen you do, none has captured an emotion so strongly, nor light interaction so vividly, in so much detail with so few strokes. I see why so many artists fell in love with the sun in this part of the world.
I agree that this painting strikes deeply into the viewer. On one side it's the simplicity of the Background with sunfall in the back of the man, which makes the sun as much of the paintings subject as the man himself. The other side is the photorealism archived with less strokes than imagined. It's an perfect play of the visible bone and muscle structure, as well as clarity of the eyebrows and beard with the slightly peeking teeth that build an nice focal point on the mans darker skintone. With how freely painted this portrait feels i feel how the painter loved to paint and how he obsessed a bit over the details. All in all an painting i would love to have to put on my living room wall as highlight. As strange as it sounds i think i would never tire to look at the portrait of an unknown person...
I really like your work but I'm a POS english major and so I feel the need to say that I think you've misunderstood what orientalism is. From what I understand Said is discussing the way that the "western" understanding of african and asian cultures forms how they interact with them. This understanding is however, distorted by previous westerners which dictates how these interactions will be recieved and understood. It's basically a self amplifying lens that westerners viewed other cultures during both imperialist colonization and decolonization following WWI and II. I highly recomend reading Said if you haven't and also reading Home Rule by Nandita Sharma as her work builds off of Said's and expands upon the ideas of post colonialism and the damage it does.
To explain simply why the “intentions” of orientalist artists don’t matter: I’m sure every amateur artist who eagerly dipped their toes into painting restoration and (either temporarily or permanently) ruined a painting also had good intentions - they weren’t TRYING to ruin the painting, to insult the original artist, I’m sure on some level they “loved” that piece too. But that doesn’t change the final outcome and the harm they’d done, however unintentional it was.
Julian, I love your work and what you do, I have been watching your videos for years, but I have to say I was disappointed to hear how critical of Said you are. I have studied and written about Said in academic contexts, maybe the art world’s understanding of Said is different than the political science world, but I think your description of his thesis is such an oversimplification that it becomes inaccurate, and I was hoping my perspective on Said might be able to clarify a few things. Said argues that cultural exchange is based around perceptions. Europe has a perception of what it means to be European, and what it means to not be European. He argued that European scholars, writers, and artists, who produced media based on “the Orient” operated through the lens of what it means to be “Uneuropean.” This is not the fault of any individual artist, I’m sure they had a deep admiration for the cultures they were studying and attempted to convey that through their art, but perceptions still shape our worldview and how we produce. Said argued that the ultimate impact of Orientalism was a proliferation of the idea that the Orient was whimsical and beautiful, but also alien, underdeveloped, and perverted, worldviews which acted as a justification for colonialism. Said did not argue that “anything a European says about the middle east is bad and racist” but that the cultural movement of Orientalism served as a catalyst for some bad things Europe would go on to do in the middle east. These paintings are beautiful and should be cherished as treasures and invaluable parts of history, but part of understanding history is knowing their complex cultural impact. Hope this finds you well!
Well said. It is hard to imagine how Jean-Léon Gérôme's The Slave Market could possibly be understood as anything other than objectifying, especially given the unreality of the scene.
I hope everyone yelled out Hi Kit just like I did! :) how much more stunning is that now that it's been cleaned and properly taken care of just beautiful.
I was a bit perturbed, maybe jealous, when Julian first introduced his intern. Now I miss Kit! She's cool. Would love to know how she's progressing and see what she's working on!
I’ve been following your blogs for over 12 months now and haven’t commented on the amazing work you do. But this vlog deserves great praise. The painting was already beautiful and mysterious but after you finished your craftsmanship, you have enhanced the beauty and the mystery of it. ❤❤❤
My grandfather worked directly for Mr Mason (Masonite) from the late 20s and early 30s into the 60s. The history of that product is interesting. I enjoyed hearing you mention it, even though it wasn't great for this painting. I always appreciate your videos.
@@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648 Julian, at one point, mentioned that it looked like corrugated cardboard was involved somehow. I can't begin to imagine how cardboard got into the act.
@@johnopalko5223 Could cardboard have been used on the front of the painting to help apply even pressure to the front, in order to press the painting and the wax resin onto the masonite? If so, then the striations from the cardboard could have been molded into the wax between the painting and the masonite. When the wax cooled the striations were there in the hardened wax.
@@MageeMC That's definitely a possibility. In fact, it's most like exactly what happened, now that I think about it. All in all, it was a hack job. I'm glad Julian was able to rescue it.
I am a bit surprised by the short tangent in the beginning about Said's "Orientalism", since the book does not address visual arts at all. There is literary criticism and an investigation into historical accounts of the middle east by western writers, and a description of how the presentation of the middle east in those works is tied to imperialist power dynamics, how our view of the Orient was created and how it shapes our understanding in turn. In light of this, calling his argument "reductionist" is pretty awkward, and slightly ironic. Other than that I enjoyed the video greatly, as I always do with content this channel puts out, just wanted to mention this.
@@iandonnelly6684 I've been following this comment section for the past 2 days because I was a bit shaken. I made comments similar to yours. Some people have had a more generous interpretation of Julian's "misunderstanding" of Saïd's work and tried their best not to speculate, given the general (and deserved) admiration for his work. But yeah, I can't wrap my head around it. I wonder whether Julian will address it in the future. Tbh it'd probably be safer for his channel to let the issue die and get on with the next restoration vid as if nothing had happened, but who knows ?
@@elax75I agree. considering one can enjoy a work of art only through its aesthetic qualities and/or view it through its historical/cultural dimension, it may be wise for Julian to focus solely on the aesthetic aspect if treating the historical/social aspect cannot be done with enough nuance within this video format. Critical inquiry is highly valuable to understand the world but its oversimplification may hurt more than help its objective.
It's because art history is equal parts visual critique as it is literary/poltical/cultural/religious critique. Said's Orientalist arguments are trotted out to undergrads and grad students who are often getting their first blush of "Critical Theory" aka Marxism and many other concepts that are often horrifically misapplied by people who don't know enough but don't have the wisdom to keep their uninformed opinions to themselves. Said's Orientalism is one of the gateway texts to anything anti-European if you're interested in the colonial period. It allows for an instant vilification of one group and victimization of another group. This then allows the budding academic to create utterly inane "hot takes" on any work that you think could be "problematic." Said does have some valid criticisms but they have to be applied properly. That requires research, context, evidence, and actual thought. That a lot of times is unfortunately missing from people who want basically a premade academic theory to support their "I want free stuff" or "Europeans bad!" opinion. Applying Said's Orientalism to this work is idiotic just as its wrong to many works which are essentially North African and Middle Eastern genre paintings.
Loved the mini history lesson, although I don't agree with your interpretation of Said's work, his criticism also leans towards commodification of the Oriental image, rather than just all discourse regarding the East through the Western eye being reductive, although he does talk about it too, his works also have a lot of (radical) nuance
Yeah, there is plenty of legitimate criticism of Said, but Julian goes way too far here in dismissing him. Artists commodifying and fetishising North Africa and the Middle East (and its inhabitants) was absolutely a thing - even though that is not a reason to condemn all the art of that period.
All art is a commodity, at least the 'good' stuff is. The artist produces the work, and is paid for it, that is how artists make their living. The same work of art may lie neglected, stay with the owner to be inherited, or sold through a few or multiple hands, in any event it is a commodity, it has a value. What on earth is a "Western Eye"?
I have noticed that the quality of the paintings you work on for your videos have been increasingly improved. This one in particular is extremely good and beautiful. On the other side it’s impressive how many great painters are in very different parts of the world, many of them unknown or unnoticed.
It's one thing to paint a portrait of a person, but to look at a painting and see an individual, his character, his personage, is as rare as this painting is beautiful.
I love everything you do, but I *especially* love watching you un-do shoddy restoration work, stripping a piece down as close as you can to its original state and building it back up again.
When Julian mentioned the name Gordon Coutts I thought "Why does that sound familiar?" When he mentioned Palm Springs, I went "AH!" Living in the Palm Springs area, I've heard his name and of Villa Dar Marroc many times. He's considered one of the founders of the city, and was one of a couple dozen artists who lived and worked here in the early 20th century before Palm Springs became famous as a movie colony.
that's the weirdest take on orientalism ive ever heard. "the snake charmer" (one of the most famous orientalist paintings, but it wasn't shown) isn't a faithful representation of life in the middle east (it shows a naked boy charmjng snakes for a group of decrepit looking older men, which Simply Did Not Happen), and saying that gêrome "was just in love with the people" doesn't explain why he made up that scene. even if orientalist painters had the best of intentions, that intent doesn't change the effect that orientalism had on the public perception of the middle east. heck, we know that manet didn't want to cause such upheaval with his art, but we still remember manet's art pushing boundaries and being revolutionary! saying Said's argument is reductive is actually really reductive of that same argument. i wish the art history lesson had the same nuance as the conservation work :( pretty confused by this one not going to lie
I felt the same way. I can't pretend to be super familiar with the history at work here, but the extremely broad generalizations of "NONE of these artists were racists" was definitely a red flag and lacked any nuance that is absolutely required when talking about colonizers making profit off of other people's cultures.
very weird take on his part to brush aside Mr. Said’s work (of all people!) on the subject at hand. Orientalist works can be beautifully painted and I quite enjoy them, but to take them at face value… come on. One can practically hear these painters thinking “people back home are going to go crazy when they see this!”. It’s fantastical artwork at times and to illustrate just refer to Gérôme’s “The Tiger and the Guardian”, a painting that’s left a huge impression on me when I was younger precisely for its fantastical qualities. Pretty? Yes. Faithful, would anyone REALLY say so? Bit of a bad take by the guy… Amazing video as always, but misleading at best historically. I’m with you on this one mate!
You saying a man can't just paint what he wants? He has to worry about what effect his painting might have on someone home or miles away across the ocean perhaps. Or are you saying you should only paint your own culture or home, to me that sounds really boring.
After seeing some of the incredibly damaged paintings you have restored (pretty much miraculously), it’s amazing to see the huge difference your restoration makes in a painting that was minimally damaged. Your wizardry shines through regardless!
you're lucky i like this channel and love to watch the restoration cuz i almost turned the video off when you claimed to know more about orientalism than Edward Said 😅 the idea that fetishization is always deliberately hateful or with an eye toward colonization is false, plenty of orientalist artists "loved what they saw" and still warped the cultures they depicted when they did so because that's like? basically how human point of view works??? if you read said you would know that.
Edward Saids work is racist theory. You have to be a racist to believe in all the critical race theories out there to begin with. What positive change does his work or any of the other bring to society? How does it unite society and help spread peace and love in any way shape or form? How does it bring positive solutions for issues our society is facing today since all this has been applied it seems onto everyones brains? Because I see nothing but racism on the rise, hate, division, blame placed where it doesn't belong, and nothing positive being applied or put in place of what is destroyed over something that is theory not even fact.
The before, and after comparison of this painting is like looking at the universe from a land-based telescope, and the webb telescope. The colors are so vivid and the image so clear,great job.
I'll admit i did flinch slightly when the solvent splashed down on the back. I'm too used to seeing precision and care from Julian that it totally caught me off guard... a literal "ohhhh he IS human, he spills stuff too!!"
The only time I've ever had issue with you Sir, it's Glaz-go not Glass-cow in Scotland. Wonderful video and work that is a lesson in not accepting second best. Regards from Scotland.
I regularly have trouble sleeping due to chronic anxiety. When I’m watching one of Julian’s videos, I’ll be nodding off before it’s finished! His voice is just so calming I relax enough to fall asleep :)
A life-saving treatment for this piece beautifully done. A contemplative ordinary man appreciated by a man of his time from a different part of the world.
Someone's love for an area and a people does not preclude their also exotifying them. They were "Loved" because they were outside the social norm and that implies that the social norm is Western European White culture. It is the love of a fantasy not an actual people and by commodifying it these artists perpetuated it. Take for example that when the West came to Japan it classified all Japan art as decorative art which on the western hierarchy was the lowest form of art. Thus, tell a culture that all of its art did not have value and to have value it needed to be FINE ART, aka painting. HOWEVER, this did not stop Westerners from exporting, commodifying and all forms of Japanese art to a high degree. Telling a culture their art is worthless, while stealing a copying the style because it is desirable.
Gauguin loved Tahiti and painting Tahitian women so much that he "married" three underage Tahitian girls, impregnated them, and never raised his children.
The social norm for Western European white men was Western European and white... who would have thought. Funny you give that example about Japan since the Japanese under their own social norms saw Europeans as barbarians with no manners and "exotified" them the same way
It always amazes me just how different the paintings looks once the grime and old varnish are removed. It reminds me of watching remastered tv shows, we are no longer looking at it though a haze or with gauze over our eyes that softened everything, we are seeing it in its full glory as meant.
All due respect, generalizing Said's work in such manner is reductive. Not all of his ideas were "misplaced". His thesis on orientalism does not just apply to art, it also includes other areas like literature, and there're substantive amount of literature written in that time by european authors about "the orient" that actually greatly benefit from being analyzed through his theory of orientalism. While I agree that we can't generalize every work of art that came out of this movement as being bad or racist, we can't also say in good conscious that they were all done respectfully. Off the top of my head, Jean Leon Gerome made a lot of questionable choices depicting praying men, for example having them face the wrong way, hold their hands in weird positions, and trying to pass off jibberish writing as arabic to name a few. not to mention countless paintings of Harems with overly sexualized, half-naked women when those women would neither be dressing in such way nor would these artists be allowed anywhere near the Harem. Again, I agree that we can't generalize every piece of art to come out of this period, but that goes both ways.
Art painted during the colonial era doesn't get more or less beautiful by claiming that the artist was somehow more enlightened than his contemporaries. Isn't that a preposterous claim to make? I think it is possible to acknowledge that the artist felt genuine love for the people he painted, without concealing the problematic context of what he did. On the contrary, concealing that context is, as you say, reductive.
Thinking of Gauguin and his many paintings of Tahitian women and also how he "married" and impregnated a 13 year old Tahitian girl and then left and never saw her or her child again. And then later "married" another Tahitian girl, this time who was 14, and then left her to raise his child on her own. And THEN "married" ANOTHER 14 year old Tahitian girl.
@@renerpho i didn't speak to their aesthetic beauty tho, did i? my qualm was the way he presented Edward Said and his views on orientalism. nuance is a thing. we can recognize that these paintings were beautiful and done well, while also acknowledging their problematic nature in some instances. we are saying the same thing.
Julian yet again I find myself relax and forget the world just watching the work you do, I almost feel as If I am standing over your shoulder watching it all. Wish I could be as I think to work on this type of art restoration in itself is wonderful. If the artists at the time never painted the people and times we would have lost so much of the wonders of the times gone by. Love it thank you xxxxxxx Dede xxx
This is perhaps one of my favourite restorations you've undertaken. I can happily admit that I would love to acquire it in the unlikely event is for sale...
I wouldn’t call orientalism an art movement, it’s a theme, a tendency, or even a genre. Academic, romantic, symbolist, Fauve painters, and more, tried themselves at orientalism. And I do believe a big part of them have very reductive not to say racist views on the so called “Orient”. Just by looking for example at the number of “harem” scene, “odalisque” or lascivious “slave”. Not the case in this beautiful painting of course.
I mean, to be fair, the reason so many people painted it was bcs it captured their attention, it was pretty different that what they saw at home. And i don't think we can judge people, too much, by WHAT interests them, so long as they don't present such things in a deceiving and mean spirited way that doesn't reflect reality, imo. And it's not like things like harems and odalisques didn't exist, unless there is something about it that I'm not aware of? Is it the WAY they painted it that bothers you or is it something else?
@@witcht It's less an issue of whether or not the images depicted by European painters of 'the Orient' were real or not (they most often weren't) and more an issue of numbers. For most people in Europe and America, paintings like Gerome's "The Slave Market" were their only images of what life in the Middle East looked like. Their's good evidence to prove that these paintings were seen as anthropological works, near perfect depictions of the 'Other.' I also agree with the original commenter here- Orientalism involves the complicated relationship between those who produce knowledge (academics and artists like Gerome) and colonial military forces. One reinforces the other. Think about how US media depicting Arabs as terrorists in the 80s-2000s reinforced the cultural image of the Arab as a violent, religious radical. US intervention in the Middle East is made a lot easier if the US people believe the country needs to be protected from Arabs. Said sought to highlight this relationship- not dismiss all art made by Westerners about the East as racist. It's a pretty meaningful reduction of what Said hoped to point out. His original argument is broad, yes, but it leaves a lot of room for complexity. Just because something engages with Orientalism doesn't make it inherently bad- how are people from the region ever meant to challenge the entire construction if just by engaging with its signifiers they're doing a bad, evil thing. Said himself is Palestinian-American. He's well aware of these kinds of complications. Anyway, sorry for the paragraphs. I've spent a lot of time reading with and against Said and I was really disappointed by BR's definition of the topic.
@@witcht harems didnt exist in they way they are currently portrayed. A the harem was the womens quarters a place where no men could go so they could hang around without being all covered up.
@@witcht The guy you replied to doesn't seem to get that 19th/20th century dudes painted 19th/20th century pinups. Sometimes a harem scene isn't a critique on culture or women or politics. Sometimes its just an excuse to paint hot women in a cool scene. They're basically male fantasies about the female locker room. It's why they're naked and having pillow fights. Its because guys think about that type of stuff and usually its not much deeper than "Tits! or Ass!" You hit the nail on the head though. People WANT to judge this stuff and its easy to apply (insert random -ism here) to whatever they're looking at. Did some artists do nefarious things, sure. Or maybe some artists just thought it would be cool to paint a naked woman in a oriental palace. Maybe the artist isn't racist, maybe he was just a pervert and liked titties. Unless there's specific information on what the artist ACTUALLY intended when painting the piece, it's just bad attempts at mind reading from decades to centuries later by people looking to be outraged.
These works are not dismissed but rather it is evidence of the problematic nature of the Orientalist that should be studied . Orientalism is not a movement but a pattern that Said and other scholar noticed in terms of how the West viewed the others in mostly negative way that continues to put the “orient” in a disadvantage
Came to say something similar. We should be listening to the scholars affected by these movements. The artists may have had a different intent, but that intent doesn't erase the impact of their actions. Impact > Intent.
Scholars love to judge the people of the past, because they can't answer back. The fact that they study what others have done, making conclusions to flatter the thinking of the day, is not an intellectual accomplishment.
@@TroyRubert Because people can have good intentions & still wind up having a negative impact. Their intentions don't erase that. Unless we are the ones who have been affected by those actions, it is not our place to say that the impact is erased by the good intentions. They don't have to be a scholar to talk about the impact- I should have said people instead but because Julian was talking about a scholar is why I used that term.
The whole reason orientalism became such a problem was because these European artists were changing the realities they saw to better suit European expectations so these paintings could sell. Regardless of their feelings, artists have to make money. While there were absolutely artists that simply painted what they saw, it was a little sad to hear him downplay the criticism here. As he said though, this painting seems to be one of the examples of one made out of simple love of the culture and people… hopefully
Even more flatly racist to say that about the slew of work out of the orientalism movement. Like, it's in the name! I've never heard someone so quickly dismiss Edward Said's work like that, as if he's naive for pointing out the way British and more broadly European art contributes to the colonialist effort to exocitize the "Middle East" and extract resources from it. Like?? Truly out of pocket interpretation here.
@@RoseDelightful YEAH! I'm in a grad program for archaeology and did my undergrad in anthropology and Said is common reading here. Julien's take is genuinely one I've never heard before - a huge part of understanding orientalism is the way images were crafted and romanticized for the sake of capturing European attention to encourage tourism and especially sexual tourism. It's one of the many pieces of the machine if colonialism. No matter how much you may 'authentically' love your subject, you cannot produce a depiction within that framework that doesn't contribute to it. Truly it sounds like he regurgitated what a disgruntled professor told him in college.
Ok, I really love the sound of your voice, but at the end I was like come on Sir; show us the comparison already!!! Great painting and I enjoyed learning about the background of the painter.
I think this is one of your best yet. I find your retouching sections to be especially useful to me, in particular for painting styles like this that use a lot of mixing of slightly-different shades and textures.
Julian’s normally very nuanced point of view is oddly clumsy here . Of course some Western artists fetishized the East (they fetishized women, wealth, aristocracy, and their own genius, as well!). The take on Said is reductive. “Falling in love” with another culture or people is never untainted by hierarchies of power (again, let’s look at women in the entire history of art). That doesn’t mean we can’t find beauty and talent and joy in the art-it just means that we can’t naively look at artistic production as springing from a culture-free (and power-free) vacuum.
Said is annoying tripe. He uses a correct perception "all our views and expressions are coloured by our socio/cultural standing in life" to then dismiss countless amounts of great wonderful art as being worthless because opressor/opressed dynamic. When in reality all of the art (even the fetishized ones) are interesting insights into the human experience. Its groanworthy grandstanding
Someone wrote that in a book that he had to study at school. It's like most of the arts subjects. They read books. Some, like lawyers and mental health professionals use their knowledge constructively in a way that benefits society in a real way.
People "fall in love" with their own perception of something rather than the something itself all the time across countless contexts, so I also thought it was really weird how Julian presented fetishization as dichotomous to love.
'Glasgow' is pronounced 'Glaz-go' not 'Glass-Cow'............Apart from the mispronunciation of my home town's name, I loved this wee video, stunning painting brought back to all it's reflective subject's glory ❤
Something special about this painting. I just love it and Find it fascinating .I am amazed at the difference in colours now revealed following your restoration. Will definitely check out this artists other works .
23:50 "[the retouching] should be very quick. But just because it is very quick does not mean it's gonna be easy". All is said, and that's why I, again and again, watch you painfully retouch all those paintings. Because, even when it shall be quick, it's never easy. And, by the way, I now can distinguish, in museum, paints that went through restauration process, and paints that didn't. Thus, I can understand that the painter did *not* paint this yellowish and blurry and colorless paint. It's time and surface grim and old varnish that killed the painting. And we shall wait for it to revive thanks to conservation hardwork. And for that, thank you.
I’m sure some artists from this time period had a genuine appreciation or admiration for the middle east, but it’s clear from numerous portrayals that just as many (if not more) of them sought to exploit those cultures by capitalizing on the ignorance of the western imagination. There are plenty of paintings from this movement where western artists represented the middle east as “barbaric”-just look at the countless depictions of women (often, inexplicably, white women) standing demurely (often nude or partially nude) with their hands tied, as dark-skinned male figures gawk at them. The implication of these scenes is that they are being sold into slavery. And the colorism is no coincidence: they depict the women as white or white passing because to westerners that makes them easier to sympathize with as innocent victims, powerless against the evil arab characters in the paintings. (It also makes the female figures more desirable, because people are racist!) And what about all of the paintings of odalisques, which are clearly an excuse to objectify the bodies of women from those countries (even if colorism often means that their appearances are extremely whitewashed-because of course, they had to fit victorian beauty standards at least a little bit to be desirable, and therefore easier to objectify). Those are absolutely fetishistic. And this is all besides the fact that most artists who engaged in orientalism didn’t ever actually travel to the lands that they were depicting! Many of them created scenes based purely on their imagination. I doubt that many of them even endeavored to do actual research before depicting cultures that they knew nothing about. I genuinely think some paintings from this movement are quite beautiful, and sometimes even respectfully rendered, but I’ve encountered just as many paintings that make me extremely uncomfortable. I think it’s hard to deny that major elements of orientalist art tend to be racism, colorism and fetishization-one doesn’t need to look far to see that.
the fact you automatically attacked "western ignorance" as if thats the only culture who ever wrongly portrayed foreign cultures tells me everything i need to know about your motives. This reads like an insanely spiteful demonisation of the west, while straight up infantilising and wildly wrong idolising of any non western culture. Especially when you start complaining that westerners paint Middle easterner people as "white" which is spoken like someone who has never been outside of the US because many of the inhabitants of that region really could pass as white after millenia of Roman, greek and Turkic migration... but i guess saying only brown and black people count as "accurate" Middle eastern people is somehow better in your eyes. Stuff like this doesnt challenge people to analyse the biases seen in HUMAN NATURE and strive to improve or at least remember said biases, it just seems like a bitter attempt to smear and demonise the intentions of people you or i will NEVER actually know, based entirely off your clear hatred for Western Europe
Orientalism of course rose out of a love and enchantment with aspects of those foreign cultures. The British loved Oriental cultures so much they have a massive treasure trove of other countries' antiquities in their museum. I don't think anybody is saying that the majority of people who produced orientalist artwork did so to purposely misrepresent those cultures for malicious reasons. But they were colonizers born believing in the might of their own country and culture. Their presentation of foreign cultures is like viewing an image through a skewed lens, naturally distorted, and the way they distorted it ultimately had a negative impact on the people from those cultures. It's false to think that because an artist genuinely loved the culture, their artwork isn't also problematic. But just because an artwork is orientalist doesn't mean it has no cultural or aesthetic value. I think people need to be educated about the context in which it was created and hear the voices of the people whose cultures were depicted in that artwork.
Thank you Mr. Baumgartner for yet another lovely restoration! I just marvel at the brilliant play of light and dark pigments in this painting - so stunning. One of the things I love most about your restorations is the introduction to artists whom I've not known of before, like this one. Thank you for that too. ♥️ **waving at Miss Kitt** ♥️
gorgeous! It well answers my thoughts about what happens with darker skin tones in paintings. I appreciate the artist skill to bring through so many little nuanced moments in a single image, and the flow of the light through his robe.
For once I disagree with your reductive opinion of Said's work. His work is a great insight of how western countries view other parts of the world, also it shows how racism, islamophobia etc takes place in western countries
Not familiar with Said's work, but I was disappointed to have the pushback against Orientalism dismissed so casually. I'm sure these artists did love the region and the subjects that they painted-- that doesn't preclude the work from exoticizing or fetishizing them. Unconscious bias is still bias. We can still acknowledge the beauty and craftsmanship of these paintings while acknowledging their problematic history.
I considered whether I should write this comment for a bit. I decided that I owe you this feedback if I respect your craftsmanship; and I sure do. While I was pleasantly surprised that you know that orientalism as a post-colonial research domain exists, I have to say that your judgment of Edward Saed and his groundbreaking book was simplistic and your criticism of how he exposed systemic racism in artistic depictions of the “East” was borderline offensive. I do hope that you actually read the book and maybe even go further and read the actual criticism of it by another brilliant thinker called Joseph Masad.
I don’t know anything about art history but I’m gonna need some popcorn before I get into this comments section
I've had to read the arguments for and against Orientalism in 3 different courses.
Orientalist art isn't problematic because it depicts every day life. It's problematic when it continued to depict the middle east as static, frozen in time at the height of the Ottoman Empire.
I've done research on historical fashion of the middle east. It was mandatory in the Ottoman Empire since 1850 to wear western dress. You can see photographs and read travel accounts of people discussing how people of the middle east dressed. Prior to then, during the 1810's when the Balkans were taken over by Russia, locals immediately adopted western dress and had western style fashion houses in under 2 years. Also the Middle East was incredibly diverse during the 18th and 19th century because Christians and Jews also lived there and had their own styles of dress. You rarely see depictions of those people's in art from Western artists during this period.
I will not say that every artist was trying to depict what they dreamed. But it is hard to accept that most artists were portraying reality in their work due to restricted access.
There are paintings that depict nonsense Arabic or imaginative squiggles on the walls of mosques. There are paintings of women in Turkish baths that no men would have been allowed to enter. Many depictions of harems are also a male artist's idea of what it would look like, as only males allowed inside were eunuchs and family members. Many women are portrayed to be scantily clad or nude, when that would have gone entirely against their religious and social values. We can't simply brush all of this off and say artists were depicting what they saw.
Art can depict reality, but artists also depict what they dream. Both can exist and be true at the same time.
And don't forget that most artists paint what they can easily sell. The tradition of covertly salacious images in disguise (such as fake "harem" scenes) goes back much further than "orientalism" - many a buxom virgin and child or classical goddess was painted to be ogled.
People in Japan wear western clothes all the time. It doesn't mean they stopped wearing kimono. Also, the artists weren't selling their paintings as documentary evidence of how the sultan's court looked in the 1860s. It's almost like there's a phrase for that... artistic license!
Squiggles are a time honored tradition. Yes, let us blame these artists for not first becoming fully fluent in Arabic and not getting every dot, dash, and hamza correct. A law must be issued to stop artists from making squigglies that suggest the presence of writing!
Do you know what men fantasize about besides the Roman empire? Wow, a guy painted a picture of a hot woman in a exotic setting. Truly that is awful and has never been done before except by these terrible European painters. What depraved perverts lol.
Where are you getting that all of these are documentary pieces? Some are obviously fantastical. The works aren't entitled "Reporting live from the Harem Peephole - Odalisque Slumber Party, 1852" But maybe being purposefully obtuse is what allows your fantasy to work.
@@casimirgythe2181 thing about art is that it influences how people think and approach a subject. The middle east narratively in the west has *consistently* been stereotyped as a mysterious land full of oppressed women and hostile warlike men who need other people to solve their problems for them. The ottoman empire was considered a western power, but also like a child trying to impersonate one at the same time. "Orientalism" by Edward Said for a better understanding. You may also find "The Question of Orientalism" by Bernard Lewis to show some insight into how Orientalists bristled at Said's arguments. Definitely give a look at "At All the Shah's Men" for insight into how the US overthrew Iranian Democracy in the 1940's to protect them from communism, but in reality was trying to let Britain maintain control over their natural resources.
When it comes to fetishization of Muslim Women, feel free to endure the condescension of the author in "Do Muslim Women Need Saving?" "Re-Presenting the Harem: Orientalist Female Artists and the 19th century Ottoman Empire" by Megan McDaniel and "Gender, Orientalism and the War on Terror" by Maryam Khalid may also be enlightening.
But if you really want insight into how perception of the middle east impacts how the people who live their are treated, look no further than "Iran Awakening" by Shirin Ebadi and the French animated film "Persepolis".
I am not saying the art is bad or completely racist. I am saying that the bias of every person influences their work and understanding of the world. Art can be used for propaganda as much as it can be used to educate or inspire. Take a look at how people from the middle east are portrayed in film and media have been portrayed in the last 25 years. How often are they given the role of heros or nuanced protagonists? Even in the animated version of Alladin, the opening song calls their culture barbaric. One can't ignore the fact that perceptions of a nation, a religion, or a people as whole loses its context and nuance if a mass majority of media upholds stereotypes.
Japan has its own nuance and context too. From how it responded to western infiltration. To chosing to adopt western culture and technology in the idea of "if you can't beat them, join them". The western world consumes media that Japan has put out. Japan is not viewed as poor 3rd world country that hasn't progressed since the 18th century.
The Roman empire is seen as the ancestor of the western world. Its seen as the inheritance of the West, a power that shaped our ideas and notions of several nations identies. It's fetishization is based off the art Rome itself produced. The middle east has not been extended that same courtesy despite its preservation of Greek and Roman texts during the european Dark Ages.
Art can be appreciated for the sake of art. But it doesn't exist in a bubble. It's a response.
You are right people do depict random squiggles all the time. That's why people didn't want to give credit to the peoples of the mezzo or South American the credit for founding and building their own ancient monuments. Many of the first depiction of Mayan script have elephants and other Hindu elements. Things that we're not actually in the glyphs standing right in front of them. Still, those artists continued to perpetuate the theory that it was another known civilization that created these structures. Ever heard of people claiming things like the pyramids or nazca lines were made by aliens? Yeah. That comes from the notion that western people are the only civilizations capable of being smart enough to build incredible things. Hark back to the Romans. Nobody claims the colloseum was made by aliens. Because that's considered nonsense.
well said!
Thank you for adding research and informed opinion to these comments. The title of this video uses the word “nuance,” and you’ve added a bit more nuance to this discussion. People may agree or disagree, but you definitely have added to the discourse. Thanks!
Julian: "With a wax-based adhesive"
The entire audience: "IT'S HOT TABLE TIME BAYBEEE LETS GO"
I mean it was hot table time as soon as he mentioned the impressions... But it's more hot table time!
Could you imagine a drinking game base on Julian’s videos? We’d all be sozzled halfway through! 😂
For those unfamiliar with Said, here's wikipedia's description of this book:
"Orientalism is a 1978 book by Edward W. Said, in which the author establishes the term "Orientalism" as a critical concept to describe the West's commonly contemptuous depiction and portrayal of The East, i.e. the Orient. Societies and peoples of the Orient are those who inhabit the places of Asia, North Africa, and the Middle East. Said argues that Orientalism, in the sense of the Western scholarship about the Eastern World, is inextricably tied to the imperialist societies who produced it, which makes much Orientalist work inherently political and servile to power.[1]"
As others have noted, its definitely more nuanced than Julian's comment, and not strictly related to art. if you are interested in these ideas or feel defensive of the art/artists (Said is not arguing about the beauty of the art, but about its relationship to colonial power structures) i would encourage reading Said's work or looking at other scholarship on Orientalism.
The problem with critical theories is that the moment you put on that lens, everything becomes problematic because of the theory's bias. If you have a painting that is a caricature of the people and is portraying them in false light or obviously racist stereotypes then yes, Said might have a point. But if the painting is of a Moroccan man sitting at a table during the day, then no it's idiotic to then ascribe the horrors of colonial legacy to that work. Some works are just as they appear, a wonderful composition with a striking subject. Other works can be very political. But to confuse the two is to be purposefully stupid or malevolent in an attempt to manipulate people. Were there artists that could be described as Said is suggesting, yes sure, is every work and every artist doing that, obviously not. As the title of the video implies, "Radical Nuance" each work and each artist has its own nuance. Reductively dumping them all into a set of "problematic/colonial/racist/sexist/etc" art is a tired, stupid, and boring technique used by Marxist 101 undergrads and those under its influence to create windmills for their Quixotic delusional crusade against fake made up problems.
I would encourage other people before reading anything to look at the painting, look at how it portrays the subject, to think about the artist who spent time painting it, and then ask themselves, if I was the subject and saw this work, would it offend me? If your answer is no, then you probably don't need to do extra research to find out why you should be offended or why you a century plus later, a culture different, and sitting thousands of miles away should be offended on behalf of the subject.
@@casimirgythe2181And do you think your argument is helped or hindered by calling another opinion "stupid"?
@@JacquesDeLeon it's not just "another opinion", it's cancel culture. And yes, that is stupid to - reductively dump everything into a category of 'problematic', and to then go on a crusade.
@belneste there is a big difference between being critical of something and 'canceling' it. As an anthropologist, it's important to understand that some, and the original comment does say much, art will show the sitter in different views that correlate with the painter's view on the society. You have to try and understand the implicit bias (which is subconcious) to figure out if an artwork is true to fact or not. One also has to separate their own bias' from the work they do in order to keep it from corrupting the work. It's also important to understand that not everyone is viewing this art. Art used to be seen as something only those in high society, those with money and power, viewed. Therefore they'd influence those parts of the world based on their ideas of what was existing there. So if an artist paints a simple scene, but imparts his bias of it being riddled with poverty, this can be done with colors chosen or the placement of shadows that western viewers would subconsciously read as 'poor', then the person buying the art will assume the sitter is poor, or unhygienic. Being critical of a system, like how we know that brain capacity between people doesn't really effect intelligence but they believed it did in the 1800s, doesn't mean we can't improve upon it and take the bits that work out, like how there's sometimes roughly a 25cc brain capacity difference between males and females and in some cases that helps investigators identify missing and dead people. Cancel culture would be throwing the whole system out, and erasing it from history, much like the ancient Egyptians did to pharaohs they didn't like, not finding the issues with a system and setting about fixing it, which can only come through being critical.
lmao responses to this comment appear to sum up to“don’t read critical theory because it’ll turn you woke”
people still getting upset about Said generations after his work was integrated into serious thinking on these topics and we all moved on
You can love something and think it is problematic. We can be grateful for his work and know that he was participating in perpetuating harmful stereotypes. We can know his intention was good, but that his impact was varied. If someone says something is problematic, please consider using an and/both viewpoint instead of an either/or viewpoint. It will help us view this work of art as a whole in a web of complex history, instead of something wholly good or bad. As a long time watcher, I think you usually strive for seeing that complexity and I value that. This time, you might have oversimplified a bit.
Well said!!
That's simple presentism. How dare people in the time they live behave as if they're not future people! If you look at what is being shown, the works are a wide variety of genre paintings. They're no more problematic than those painted by the Netherlandish masters. Said's point is uselessly reductive and prevents anyone not from the region from painting anything of that region. That's essentialism on steroids and does nothing for the art historical value of these pieces. The works are tremendous as they are windows into these times and places. Your present day opinion on colonialism or whatever you're channeling doesn't have anything to do with these painters who obviously took extreme care to render their subjects in a way faithful to what they saw and encountered. Have you ever been to some of these places? They are striking, and wonderful, and exotic, and beautiful. Imagine what it would be like at the time of the painting when you can't instantly watch travel videos or scroll through Instagram feeds to become jaded. Said's critique of Orientalism is a cover for his politics and its refreshing to see someone like Julian push past the bog standard academic narrative and deal with these paintings and painters on their own terms and merits.
@@casimirgythe2181: I'm afraid you completely missed the point and it doesn't look like you understand more nuanced than "black or white" opinions, so I'll leave it at this: no, the world doesn't work that way. The fact that humans did reprehensible or just... a bit worse than "morally ambiguous" things in the past doesn't mean that they were faultless or that their deeds were harmless just because a certain type of behaviour was more widely accepted (then again - more widely accepted by which social groups? those whose voice mattered? and accepted or suffered in silence because there was no choice? etc, etc) or that certain terms didn't exist or weren't widespread back then.
@@Airsaber Do you understand why presentism is a logical fallacy? And what EXACT reprehensible thing are you suggesting Coutts did other than paint a wonderful picture? Can you actually defend your claim? Be precise now, I'd like to know how it is you've come by this knowledge that gives you the authority to make such a claim. Or are you just painting him in your own black and white colors of oppressor/oppressed? No one suggested that people haven't done bad and evil things. Obviously they have, but not all people are bad and evil. Sometimes a painting of a Moroccan man is just a painting of Moroccan man. Unless you actually know when and when not to apply a critical lens, you're going to make the mistake of assigning things as being "problematic" when its just your own bias on display.
@@casimirgythe2181: Yep, unfortunately you didn't get the point. I suggest re-reading the comments not agreeing with the rather flippant/dismissive tone re: the aforementioned book and term. And I'm afraid that you are the only person talking about this who writes comments that suggest that the author of said comments sees things in black and white. Nobody else here is talking in such absolutes - on the contrary, people are asking for more nuance.
Honesty i love the way Julian narrates his process to cater to anyone so first yime viewers will understand it, instead of just saying its a hot table you all have seen it 200 times now.
The painting has moved from late afternoon, almost twilight, to mid morning. It is beautiful. Good work!!
You are awesome! I was searching for Words and i only posted Emojis. You are brilliant! Exactly this!!!!!!
Beautiful work! That said, of all the occupations, artists don’t really have the best history of not fetishizing something..
As a Moroccan specifically from Tangier "The bride of the north" born and raised watching your videos for years, this was the least expected restoration ever!
Tangier has a history of attracting renowned painters and artists. The city's unique cultural blend, picturesque landscapes, and vibrant atmosphere have made it an appealing destination for artists seeking inspiration. Notable painters and artists, such as Henri Matisse and Eugène Delacroix, have been drawn to Tangier for its artistic inspiration. Additionally, American expatriate artists, like Paul Bowles and Tennessee Williams, spent time in Tangier, further contributing to the city's reputation as a hub for creative minds.
Seeing your comment after all the white guilt in the comments is like a breath of cool, fresh air.
Lovely Cosmopolitan city Tangier. It has only been an international hotspot for about 2000 to 3400 years.
@@furrymessiahhuh where 😭
@@jazzjj7665 Don't look! You'll need retouching if you see it!
@furrymessiah that's what I'm saying. Keep that woke $hit somewhere else. Lol. I'm an artist and what's truly amazing is that most artist just painted what they observed. They honestly could not have cared at all about being racist or any of that stuff. When your painting you have to focus, and you also have to love what your painting. People are just looking for an argument in the comments.
A beautiful portrait! Really not a fair assessment of Edward Said's work or thesis at the beginning, however, which overshadowed this video for me. Said dedicated his life to understanding how colonized people were represented by colonizers in colonial-era literature particularly. The complex dynamics between interpersonal relationships (which may be positive) and broader power structures (which were overwhelmingly exploitative - including in North Africa) are a huge part of what Said discusses across volumes of his work. I would recommend rather that accepting the summary provided here, people should read Said's work for themselves.
Yes it is incredibly naive and anyone who’s engaged with the field of study would laugh at this casual dismissal of one of the most important sociological authors of the 20th century.
@@ChrisGalardi Important to leftists because he was one of them.
Said was an absolute wank stain and his work is worthless tom foolery.
Yeah, agreed, I was a bit saddened that this argument was presented so onesided and comically overblown. People can still agree or disagree, but flattening down the argument because you don't agreee with it is always a bad look.
@@ChrisGalardi I studied Said and was repulsed by his work. Not that some of the implications weren't merited, but his work was what was one-sided - not our reactions to it.
Cool thing about the varnish, is even if it's old and yellow - the fact you can remove it and see such bright colors underneath says the varnish totally did its job.
Well, part of its job. It became too yellowed to do the other part of its job well.
@ordulf7193 the varnish wasn't yellow when it was first applied so it did its job for a period of time.
@@ordulf7193 Yeah I just mean, the major purpose of varnish is to protect a painting. That's what it did. It just also happened to yellow after some time lol!
@@xerodeus2337 Modern conservation varnishes do both parts, for they do not yellow.
@@xerodeus2337 I agree.
The light coming through the fabric behind his face really makes this painting.
This may be my favourite painting that you've restored. So beautiful, subtle and full of contemplation. Truly an exceptional artist who took great care in capturing this scene originally and an exceptional conservator who has now preserved it so that it can be enjoyed for years to come!
It amazes me how, especially fabric, can go from a flat, almost cartoonish, look to a pillowy flowing fabric, simply by removing the varnish.
Makes me wonder how all the paintings I've stared at in my life actually were supposed to look.
It's because it flattens out the values (shading). A lot of the sense of depth in a drawing is carried by reproducing the patterns light forms when it hits a geometric form. old varnish, especially as it collects dust, converges the whole image to a kind of middle gray because light is reflecting off the accumulated dust. If you pay attention to the before and afters you can see that the dark parts of the paintings get darker just as the light parts get lighter, that contrast between light and dark is really import to making the 3d illusion work.
source: am art student
The details with folding the fabric is just pure beauty!
This is one of the most striking paintings I've ever seen. Among all the paintings I've seen you do, none has captured an emotion so strongly, nor light interaction so vividly, in so much detail with so few strokes. I see why so many artists fell in love with the sun in this part of the world.
I have to agree. There is something about this particular painting that makes it stand out.
Totally agree, I fell in love with this painting, wow!❤
I agree that this painting strikes deeply into the viewer. On one side it's the simplicity of the Background with sunfall in the back of the man, which makes the sun as much of the paintings subject as the man himself. The other side is the photorealism archived with less strokes than imagined. It's an perfect play of the visible bone and muscle structure, as well as clarity of the eyebrows and beard with the slightly peeking teeth that build an nice focal point on the mans darker skintone. With how freely painted this portrait feels i feel how the painter loved to paint and how he obsessed a bit over the details.
All in all an painting i would love to have to put on my living room wall as highlight. As strange as it sounds i think i would never tire to look at the portrait of an unknown person...
I really like your work but I'm a POS english major and so I feel the need to say that I think you've misunderstood what orientalism is. From what I understand Said is discussing the way that the "western" understanding of african and asian cultures forms how they interact with them. This understanding is however, distorted by previous westerners which dictates how these interactions will be recieved and understood. It's basically a self amplifying lens that westerners viewed other cultures during both imperialist colonization and decolonization following WWI and II. I highly recomend reading Said if you haven't and also reading Home Rule by Nandita Sharma as her work builds off of Said's and expands upon the ideas of post colonialism and the damage it does.
To explain simply why the “intentions” of orientalist artists don’t matter: I’m sure every amateur artist who eagerly dipped their toes into painting restoration and (either temporarily or permanently) ruined a painting also had good intentions - they weren’t TRYING to ruin the painting, to insult the original artist, I’m sure on some level they “loved” that piece too. But that doesn’t change the final outcome and the harm they’d done, however unintentional it was.
I like how you put it in context
Great analogue
How dare the people of the past live as if they aren't people of the future!
@@oz_jones Please explain.
@@BlueCoolOla I understand what oz_jones mean. However it is not always as simple as that.
as a moroccan i’m not sure how i feel about the portrait itself HOWEVER you slayed
Why would you object to this marvelous painting?
The subject does not seem to have been disrespected. And it’s from the 1800’s so his clothing, etc is correct.
What the hell is wrong with the painting at all, let alone to a Moroccan?
Once it is finished you really can see light through the cloth around his head...Amazing skill. Charles
This guy really had a way with painting light. A really lovely portrait. (ed: Gordon Coutts is the guy)
I miss the name of the artist.
I agree, the mastery of light in the fabric is exquisite!
Yep, this one is getting added to my “Baumgartner Fine Sleep Restoration” playlist.
Julian, I love your work and what you do, I have been watching your videos for years, but I have to say I was disappointed to hear how critical of Said you are. I have studied and written about Said in academic contexts, maybe the art world’s understanding of Said is different than the political science world, but I think your description of his thesis is such an oversimplification that it becomes inaccurate, and I was hoping my perspective on Said might be able to clarify a few things.
Said argues that cultural exchange is based around perceptions. Europe has a perception of what it means to be European, and what it means to not be European. He argued that European scholars, writers, and artists, who produced media based on “the Orient” operated through the lens of what it means to be “Uneuropean.” This is not the fault of any individual artist, I’m sure they had a deep admiration for the cultures they were studying and attempted to convey that through their art, but perceptions still shape our worldview and how we produce. Said argued that the ultimate impact of Orientalism was a proliferation of the idea that the Orient was whimsical and beautiful, but also alien, underdeveloped, and perverted, worldviews which acted as a justification for colonialism. Said did not argue that “anything a European says about the middle east is bad and racist” but that the cultural movement of Orientalism served as a catalyst for some bad things Europe would go on to do in the middle east.
These paintings are beautiful and should be cherished as treasures and invaluable parts of history, but part of understanding history is knowing their complex cultural impact. Hope this finds you well!
Thank you so much for this, I came to the comments section specifically for more info on Said.
💯
i hope he sees this
Thank you, I was about to add my two cents, but you said it best.
Well said. It is hard to imagine how Jean-Léon Gérôme's The Slave Market could possibly be understood as anything other than objectifying, especially given the unreality of the scene.
My soul died when Julian uttered the phrase, "Glued to a sheet of Masonite."
I literally gagged when he said it ToT
Hey Kit, good to see your cameo!
I hope everyone yelled out Hi Kit just like I did! :) how much more stunning is that now that it's been cleaned and properly taken care of just beautiful.
I TOTALLY did!!
I was a bit perturbed, maybe jealous, when Julian first introduced his intern. Now I miss Kit! She's cool. Would love to know how she's progressing and see what she's working on!
I let out an audible groan.
@@projektkobra2247 😂😂
@@britaggies2365 I'm hoping to see a Kit exclusive video on this channel one day ^^
You have restored an exquisite painting back to what the painter painted. Thank you for sharing your talents with us. You are amazing!!😊
I’ve been following your blogs for over 12 months now and haven’t commented on the amazing work you do. But this vlog deserves great praise. The painting was already beautiful and mysterious but after you finished your craftsmanship, you have enhanced the beauty and the mystery of it. ❤❤❤
My grandfather worked directly for Mr Mason (Masonite) from the late 20s and early 30s into the 60s. The history of that product is interesting. I enjoyed hearing you mention it, even though it wasn't great for this painting. I always appreciate your videos.
How did affixing the painting to a solid flat backing create vertical striations rather than a more generally wrinkled look?
@@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648 Julian, at one point, mentioned that it looked like corrugated cardboard was involved somehow. I can't begin to imagine how cardboard got into the act.
@@johnopalko5223 Could cardboard have been used on the front of the painting to help apply even pressure to the front, in order to press the painting and the wax resin onto the masonite? If so, then the striations from the cardboard could have been molded into the wax between the painting and the masonite. When the wax cooled the striations were there in the hardened wax.
@@MageeMC That's definitely a possibility. In fact, it's most like exactly what happened, now that I think about it. All in all, it was a hack job. I'm glad Julian was able to rescue it.
I am a bit surprised by the short tangent in the beginning about Said's "Orientalism", since the book does not address visual arts at all. There is literary criticism and an investigation into historical accounts of the middle east by western writers, and a description of how the presentation of the middle east in those works is tied to imperialist power dynamics, how our view of the Orient was created and how it shapes our understanding in turn. In light of this, calling his argument "reductionist" is pretty awkward, and slightly ironic.
Other than that I enjoyed the video greatly, as I always do with content this channel puts out, just wanted to mention this.
I fear his rejection might have to do with the current situation in Israel/Palestine. But i dont want to speculate lol.
@@iandonnelly6684 I've been following this comment section for the past 2 days because I was a bit shaken. I made comments similar to yours. Some people have had a more generous interpretation of Julian's "misunderstanding" of Saïd's work and tried their best not to speculate, given the general (and deserved) admiration for his work. But yeah, I can't wrap my head around it. I wonder whether Julian will address it in the future. Tbh it'd probably be safer for his channel to let the issue die and get on with the next restoration vid as if nothing had happened, but who knows ?
@@elax75I agree. considering one can enjoy a work of art only through its aesthetic qualities and/or view it through its historical/cultural dimension, it may be wise for Julian to focus solely on the aesthetic aspect if treating the historical/social aspect cannot be done with enough nuance within this video format. Critical inquiry is highly valuable to understand the world but its oversimplification may hurt more than help its objective.
Said was a complete and utter fool.
It's because art history is equal parts visual critique as it is literary/poltical/cultural/religious critique. Said's Orientalist arguments are trotted out to undergrads and grad students who are often getting their first blush of "Critical Theory" aka Marxism and many other concepts that are often horrifically misapplied by people who don't know enough but don't have the wisdom to keep their uninformed opinions to themselves. Said's Orientalism is one of the gateway texts to anything anti-European if you're interested in the colonial period. It allows for an instant vilification of one group and victimization of another group. This then allows the budding academic to create utterly inane "hot takes" on any work that you think could be "problematic." Said does have some valid criticisms but they have to be applied properly. That requires research, context, evidence, and actual thought. That a lot of times is unfortunately missing from people who want basically a premade academic theory to support their "I want free stuff" or "Europeans bad!" opinion. Applying Said's Orientalism to this work is idiotic just as its wrong to many works which are essentially North African and Middle Eastern genre paintings.
Loved the mini history lesson, although I don't agree with your interpretation of Said's work, his criticism also leans towards commodification of the Oriental image, rather than just all discourse regarding the East through the Western eye being reductive, although he does talk about it too, his works also have a lot of (radical) nuance
Yeah I think Julian is off on Said too
Yeah, there is plenty of legitimate criticism of Said, but Julian goes way too far here in dismissing him. Artists commodifying and fetishising North Africa and the Middle East (and its inhabitants) was absolutely a thing - even though that is not a reason to condemn all the art of that period.
All art is a commodity, at least the 'good' stuff is. The artist produces the work, and is paid for it, that is how artists make their living. The same work of art may lie neglected, stay with the owner to be inherited, or sold through a few or multiple hands, in any event it is a commodity, it has a value.
What on earth is a "Western Eye"?
WOW, ALL THESE EXPERTS
@@nicktecky55A western eye is a view from a White European based perspective.
I have noticed that the quality of the paintings you work on for your videos have been increasingly improved. This one in particular is extremely good and beautiful. On the other side it’s impressive how many great painters are in very different parts of the world, many of them unknown or unnoticed.
It's one thing to paint a portrait of a person, but to look at a painting and see an individual, his character, his personage, is as rare as this painting is beautiful.
I love everything you do, but I *especially* love watching you un-do shoddy restoration work, stripping a piece down as close as you can to its original state and building it back up again.
This is such a beautiful painting, even in its damaged state. I can’t wait for it to be restored! 😊
A Monday meditation on art with Julian - a perfect start to the week!
When Julian mentioned the name Gordon Coutts I thought "Why does that sound familiar?" When he mentioned Palm Springs, I went "AH!" Living in the Palm Springs area, I've heard his name and of Villa Dar Marroc many times. He's considered one of the founders of the city, and was one of a couple dozen artists who lived and worked here in the early 20th century before Palm Springs became famous as a movie colony.
that's the weirdest take on orientalism ive ever heard. "the snake charmer" (one of the most famous orientalist paintings, but it wasn't shown) isn't a faithful representation of life in the middle east (it shows a naked boy charmjng snakes for a group of decrepit looking older men, which Simply Did Not Happen), and saying that gêrome "was just in love with the people" doesn't explain why he made up that scene. even if orientalist painters had the best of intentions, that intent doesn't change the effect that orientalism had on the public perception of the middle east. heck, we know that manet didn't want to cause such upheaval with his art, but we still remember manet's art pushing boundaries and being revolutionary! saying Said's argument is reductive is actually really reductive of that same argument. i wish the art history lesson had the same nuance as the conservation work :( pretty confused by this one not going to lie
I felt the same way. I can't pretend to be super familiar with the history at work here, but the extremely broad generalizations of "NONE of these artists were racists" was definitely a red flag and lacked any nuance that is absolutely required when talking about colonizers making profit off of other people's cultures.
Well said
very weird take on his part to brush aside Mr. Said’s work (of all people!) on the subject at hand. Orientalist works can be beautifully painted and I quite enjoy them, but to take them at face value… come on. One can practically hear these painters thinking “people back home are going to go crazy when they see this!”. It’s fantastical artwork at times and to illustrate just refer to Gérôme’s “The Tiger and the Guardian”, a painting that’s left a huge impression on me when I was younger precisely for its fantastical qualities. Pretty? Yes. Faithful, would anyone REALLY say so? Bit of a bad take by the guy… Amazing video as always, but misleading at best historically. I’m with you on this one mate!
Facts
You saying a man can't just paint what he wants? He has to worry about what effect his painting might have on someone home or miles away across the ocean perhaps. Or are you saying you should only paint your own culture or home, to me that sounds really boring.
Came for the relaxing viewing, stayed for the hilarious passive-aggressive jabs at the previous restoration.
lol! I often imagine him in 1000 years, being reborn as restorator, swearing at his own doing! 😂
Well, that's not EXACTLY what Said wrote. SOMEBODY is being reductive here, and I don't think it's Said.
What an absolutely beautiful painting with it’s amazing colors and cast shadows. Great work to both the artist and the conservator!
WOW
You left Europe
And brought us all to a new place
Beautiful trip
Thanks
and Congratulations.
After seeing some of the incredibly damaged paintings you have restored (pretty much miraculously), it’s amazing to see the huge difference your restoration makes in a painting that was minimally damaged. Your wizardry shines through regardless!
I love the colors that are revealed in the restored painting - beautiful blues and pinks and yellows. And I am a sucker for strong sun and shadow…
Julian - thanks for the split screen during retouching - very interesting and informative - great idea!
As soon as Julian said “old conservation work”, I thought “oh boy, here we go…”
Amazing job, Julian!!!
❤️❤️❤️👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
you're lucky i like this channel and love to watch the restoration cuz i almost turned the video off when you claimed to know more about orientalism than Edward Said 😅 the idea that fetishization is always deliberately hateful or with an eye toward colonization is false, plenty of orientalist artists "loved what they saw" and still warped the cultures they depicted when they did so because that's like? basically how human point of view works??? if you read said you would know that.
Edward Saids work is racist theory. You have to be a racist to believe in all the critical race theories out there to begin with. What positive change does his work or any of the other bring to society? How does it unite society and help spread peace and love in any way shape or form? How does it bring positive solutions for issues our society is facing today since all this has been applied it seems onto everyones brains? Because I see nothing but racism on the rise, hate, division, blame placed where it doesn't belong, and nothing positive being applied or put in place of what is destroyed over something that is theory not even fact.
@@AvalonDreamz begone chud! i don't care what you think
The before, and after comparison of this painting is like looking at the universe from a land-based telescope, and the webb telescope. The colors are so vivid and the image so clear,great job.
I'll admit i did flinch slightly when the solvent splashed down on the back. I'm too used to seeing precision and care from Julian that it totally caught me off guard... a literal "ohhhh he IS human, he spills stuff too!!"
Oh, my word, this portrait is sublime. How I envy the owner(s). They must have been ecstatic to see this result. Beautiful work.
The only time I've ever had issue with you Sir, it's Glaz-go not Glass-cow in Scotland. Wonderful video and work that is a lesson in not accepting second best. Regards from Scotland.
Also, it's Mel-bun, not Mel-borne. I grew up there.
Removal of the yellowed varnish is always my favorite part.
I love watching these before bed. They're perfect for relaxing and calming the mind.
I regularly have trouble sleeping due to chronic anxiety. When I’m watching one of Julian’s videos, I’ll be nodding off before it’s finished! His voice is just so calming I relax enough to fall asleep :)
This particular video here has been the one that I fall asleep to every night, for a few weeks now, at 0.75% speed
A life-saving treatment for this piece beautifully done. A contemplative ordinary man appreciated by a man of his time from a different part of the world.
A radical transformation doesn’t begin to describe the beauty you revealed, thank you for sharing.
Beautiful painting and portrait, so glad it got into your hands to be restored and preserved.
Someone's love for an area and a people does not preclude their also exotifying them. They were "Loved" because they were outside the social norm and that implies that the social norm is Western European White culture. It is the love of a fantasy not an actual people and by commodifying it these artists perpetuated it. Take for example that when the West came to Japan it classified all Japan art as decorative art which on the western hierarchy was the lowest form of art. Thus, tell a culture that all of its art did not have value and to have value it needed to be FINE ART, aka painting. HOWEVER, this did not stop Westerners from exporting, commodifying and all forms of Japanese art to a high degree. Telling a culture their art is worthless, while stealing a copying the style because it is desirable.
💯
Gauguin loved Tahiti and painting Tahitian women so much that he "married" three underage Tahitian girls, impregnated them, and never raised his children.
The social norm for Western European white men was Western European and white... who would have thought.
Funny you give that example about Japan since the Japanese under their own social norms saw Europeans as barbarians with no manners and "exotified" them the same way
What would have differentiated that from genuine “love”? Or have you just been granted the power to divine their thoughts and intentions post mortem?
@@DaveM86 If you're white and/or a man whatever you do or think is wrong, it's that simple.
It always amazes me just how different the paintings looks once the grime and old varnish are removed. It reminds me of watching remastered tv shows, we are no longer looking at it though a haze or with gauze over our eyes that softened everything, we are seeing it in its full glory as meant.
All due respect, generalizing Said's work in such manner is reductive. Not all of his ideas were "misplaced". His thesis on orientalism does not just apply to art, it also includes other areas like literature, and there're substantive amount of literature written in that time by european authors about "the orient" that actually greatly benefit from being analyzed through his theory of orientalism. While I agree that we can't generalize every work of art that came out of this movement as being bad or racist, we can't also say in good conscious that they were all done respectfully. Off the top of my head, Jean Leon Gerome made a lot of questionable choices depicting praying men, for example having them face the wrong way, hold their hands in weird positions, and trying to pass off jibberish writing as arabic to name a few. not to mention countless paintings of Harems with overly sexualized, half-naked women when those women would neither be dressing in such way nor would these artists be allowed anywhere near the Harem. Again, I agree that we can't generalize every piece of art to come out of this period, but that goes both ways.
Art painted during the colonial era doesn't get more or less beautiful by claiming that the artist was somehow more enlightened than his contemporaries. Isn't that a preposterous claim to make? I think it is possible to acknowledge that the artist felt genuine love for the people he painted, without concealing the problematic context of what he did. On the contrary, concealing that context is, as you say, reductive.
💯
Thinking of Gauguin and his many paintings of Tahitian women and also how he "married" and impregnated a 13 year old Tahitian girl and then left and never saw her or her child again. And then later "married" another Tahitian girl, this time who was 14, and then left her to raise his child on her own. And THEN "married" ANOTHER 14 year old Tahitian girl.
@@renerpho i didn't speak to their aesthetic beauty tho, did i? my qualm was the way he presented Edward Said and his views on orientalism. nuance is a thing. we can recognize that these paintings were beautiful and done well, while also acknowledging their problematic nature in some instances. we are saying the same thing.
@@GetOfflineGetGood don't forget he also had a wife and 5 kids which he left behind before he embarked on Tahiti.
Such a luminous portrait, gorgeous light. 😍
Julian yet again I find myself relax and forget the world just watching the work you do, I almost feel as If I am standing over your shoulder watching it all. Wish I could be as I think to work on this type of art restoration in itself is wonderful. If the artists at the time never painted the people and times we would have lost so much of the wonders of the times gone by. Love it thank you xxxxxxx Dede xxx
Of all the paintings that I've seen on your channel and I have been watching for a few years now; this one I covet.
This is perhaps one of my favourite restorations you've undertaken.
I can happily admit that I would love to acquire it in the unlikely event is for sale...
Another superb restoration done...of a beautiful portrait painted by a marvelous artist. Wonderful to see it come to life! Thank you.
The tacking is so satisfying 🥴 beautiful job
Thank you for teaching us a little about the artist and showing us some of his other works.
I wouldn’t call orientalism an art movement, it’s a theme, a tendency, or even a genre. Academic, romantic, symbolist, Fauve painters, and more, tried themselves at orientalism. And I do believe a big part of them have very reductive not to say racist views on the so called “Orient”. Just by looking for example at the number of “harem” scene, “odalisque” or lascivious “slave”. Not the case in this beautiful painting of course.
I mean, to be fair, the reason so many people painted it was bcs it captured their attention, it was pretty different that what they saw at home. And i don't think we can judge people, too much, by WHAT interests them, so long as they don't present such things in a deceiving and mean spirited way that doesn't reflect reality, imo. And it's not like things like harems and odalisques didn't exist, unless there is something about it that I'm not aware of? Is it the WAY they painted it that bothers you or is it something else?
@@witcht It's less an issue of whether or not the images depicted by European painters of 'the Orient' were real or not (they most often weren't) and more an issue of numbers. For most people in Europe and America, paintings like Gerome's "The Slave Market" were their only images of what life in the Middle East looked like. Their's good evidence to prove that these paintings were seen as anthropological works, near perfect depictions of the 'Other.'
I also agree with the original commenter here- Orientalism involves the complicated relationship between those who produce knowledge (academics and artists like Gerome) and colonial military forces. One reinforces the other. Think about how US media depicting Arabs as terrorists in the 80s-2000s reinforced the cultural image of the Arab as a violent, religious radical. US intervention in the Middle East is made a lot easier if the US people believe the country needs to be protected from Arabs.
Said sought to highlight this relationship- not dismiss all art made by Westerners about the East as racist. It's a pretty meaningful reduction of what Said hoped to point out. His original argument is broad, yes, but it leaves a lot of room for complexity. Just because something engages with Orientalism doesn't make it inherently bad- how are people from the region ever meant to challenge the entire construction if just by engaging with its signifiers they're doing a bad, evil thing. Said himself is Palestinian-American. He's well aware of these kinds of complications.
Anyway, sorry for the paragraphs. I've spent a lot of time reading with and against Said and I was really disappointed by BR's definition of the topic.
@@witcht harems didnt exist in they way they are currently portrayed. A the harem was the womens quarters a place where no men could go so they could hang around without being all covered up.
@@call-rickey thank you! julien's discussion on the subject bothered me and i couldnt have explained it any better than you did
@@witcht The guy you replied to doesn't seem to get that 19th/20th century dudes painted 19th/20th century pinups. Sometimes a harem scene isn't a critique on culture or women or politics. Sometimes its just an excuse to paint hot women in a cool scene. They're basically male fantasies about the female locker room. It's why they're naked and having pillow fights. Its because guys think about that type of stuff and usually its not much deeper than "Tits! or Ass!"
You hit the nail on the head though. People WANT to judge this stuff and its easy to apply (insert random -ism here) to whatever they're looking at. Did some artists do nefarious things, sure. Or maybe some artists just thought it would be cool to paint a naked woman in a oriental palace. Maybe the artist isn't racist, maybe he was just a pervert and liked titties. Unless there's specific information on what the artist ACTUALLY intended when painting the piece, it's just bad attempts at mind reading from decades to centuries later by people looking to be outraged.
A follower from Morocco here, happy to see this work!
These works are not dismissed but rather it is evidence of the problematic nature of the Orientalist that should be studied . Orientalism is not a movement but a pattern that Said and other scholar noticed in terms of how the West viewed the others in mostly negative way that continues to put the “orient” in a disadvantage
Purely Occidental.
Came to say something similar. We should be listening to the scholars affected by these movements. The artists may have had a different intent, but that intent doesn't erase the impact of their actions. Impact > Intent.
Why do you think that is?
Scholars love to judge the people of the past, because they can't answer back. The fact that they study what others have done, making conclusions to flatter the thinking of the day, is not an intellectual accomplishment.
@@TroyRubert Because people can have good intentions & still wind up having a negative impact. Their intentions don't erase that. Unless we are the ones who have been affected by those actions, it is not our place to say that the impact is erased by the good intentions. They don't have to be a scholar to talk about the impact- I should have said people instead but because Julian was talking about a scholar is why I used that term.
"It's subtle, but the change matters" 13:01
All I can say is that was a stunning transformation !!!
It’s as though you turned on the sun. The light on this man’s wool is spectacular! Great work bringing it back!
Saying artists didn’t fetishize the people is certainly a broad statement
in this context its a racist one actually
I would disagree. Misguided, sure, but racist? How so?
The whole reason orientalism became such a problem was because these European artists were changing the realities they saw to better suit European expectations so these paintings could sell. Regardless of their feelings, artists have to make money. While there were absolutely artists that simply painted what they saw, it was a little sad to hear him downplay the criticism here.
As he said though, this painting seems to be one of the examples of one made out of simple love of the culture and people… hopefully
Even more flatly racist to say that about the slew of work out of the orientalism movement. Like, it's in the name! I've never heard someone so quickly dismiss Edward Said's work like that, as if he's naive for pointing out the way British and more broadly European art contributes to the colonialist effort to exocitize the "Middle East" and extract resources from it. Like?? Truly out of pocket interpretation here.
@@RoseDelightful YEAH! I'm in a grad program for archaeology and did my undergrad in anthropology and Said is common reading here. Julien's take is genuinely one I've never heard before - a huge part of understanding orientalism is the way images were crafted and romanticized for the sake of capturing European attention to encourage tourism and especially sexual tourism. It's one of the many pieces of the machine if colonialism. No matter how much you may 'authentically' love your subject, you cannot produce a depiction within that framework that doesn't contribute to it. Truly it sounds like he regurgitated what a disgruntled professor told him in college.
Ok, I really love the sound of your voice, but at the end I was like come on Sir; show us the comparison already!!! Great painting and I enjoyed learning about the background of the painter.
I think this is one of your best yet. I find your retouching sections to be especially useful to me, in particular for painting styles like this that use a lot of mixing of slightly-different shades and textures.
Julian’s normally very nuanced point of view is oddly clumsy here . Of course some Western artists fetishized the East (they fetishized women, wealth, aristocracy, and their own genius, as well!). The take on Said is reductive. “Falling in love” with another culture or people is never untainted by hierarchies of power (again, let’s look at women in the entire history of art). That doesn’t mean we can’t find beauty and talent and joy in the art-it just means that we can’t naively look at artistic production as springing from a culture-free (and power-free) vacuum.
Said is annoying tripe. He uses a correct perception "all our views and expressions are coloured by our socio/cultural standing in life" to then dismiss countless amounts of great wonderful art as being worthless because opressor/opressed dynamic. When in reality all of the art (even the fetishized ones) are interesting insights into the human experience. Its groanworthy grandstanding
Someone wrote that in a book that he had to study at school. It's like most of the arts subjects. They read books. Some, like lawyers and mental health professionals use their knowledge constructively in a way that benefits society in a real way.
Marxist nonsense. Said was a complete idiot. No thinking person takes him seriously.
People "fall in love" with their own perception of something rather than the something itself all the time across countless contexts, so I also thought it was really weird how Julian presented fetishization as dichotomous to love.
Is there a visual art version of "death of the author"? It sounds similar to what's being argued here.
Exquisite transformation of an elegant portrait full of warm dreamy nuance.
This is absolutely the most gorgeous painting you've shown us. This is a real man from a fairly recent time, not fancy, speaking volumes. Bravo.
stunningly beautiful painting, sensitively restored. Thanks for bringing us along.
'Glasgow' is pronounced 'Glaz-go' not 'Glass-Cow'............Apart from the mispronunciation of my home town's name, I loved this wee video, stunning painting brought back to all it's reflective subject's glory ❤
Something special about this painting. I just love it and Find it fascinating .I am amazed at the difference in colours now revealed following your restoration. Will definitely check out this artists other works .
Great job restoring this beautiful portrait 👍
23:50 "[the retouching] should be very quick. But just because it is very quick does not mean it's gonna be easy".
All is said, and that's why I, again and again, watch you painfully retouch all those paintings. Because, even when it shall be quick, it's never easy.
And, by the way, I now can distinguish, in museum, paints that went through restauration process, and paints that didn't. Thus, I can understand that the painter did *not* paint this yellowish and blurry and colorless paint. It's time and surface grim and old varnish that killed the painting. And we shall wait for it to revive thanks to conservation hardwork. And for that, thank you.
I’m sure some artists from this time period had a genuine appreciation or admiration for the middle east, but it’s clear from numerous portrayals that just as many (if not more) of them sought to exploit those cultures by capitalizing on the ignorance of the western imagination. There are plenty of paintings from this movement where western artists represented the middle east as “barbaric”-just look at the countless depictions of women (often, inexplicably, white women) standing demurely (often nude or partially nude) with their hands tied, as dark-skinned male figures gawk at them. The implication of these scenes is that they are being sold into slavery. And the colorism is no coincidence: they depict the women as white or white passing because to westerners that makes them easier to sympathize with as innocent victims, powerless against the evil arab characters in the paintings. (It also makes the female figures more desirable, because people are racist!)
And what about all of the paintings of odalisques, which are clearly an excuse to objectify the bodies of women from those countries (even if colorism often means that their appearances are extremely whitewashed-because of course, they had to fit victorian beauty standards at least a little bit to be desirable, and therefore easier to objectify). Those are absolutely fetishistic. And this is all besides the fact that most artists who engaged in orientalism didn’t ever actually travel to the lands that they were depicting! Many of them created scenes based purely on their imagination. I doubt that many of them even endeavored to do actual research before depicting cultures that they knew nothing about.
I genuinely think some paintings from this movement are quite beautiful, and sometimes even respectfully rendered, but I’ve encountered just as many paintings that make me extremely uncomfortable. I think it’s hard to deny that major elements of orientalist art tend to be racism, colorism and fetishization-one doesn’t need to look far to see that.
the fact you automatically attacked "western ignorance" as if thats the only culture who ever wrongly portrayed foreign cultures tells me everything i need to know about your motives. This reads like an insanely spiteful demonisation of the west, while straight up infantilising and wildly wrong idolising of any non western culture. Especially when you start complaining that westerners paint Middle easterner people as "white" which is spoken like someone who has never been outside of the US because many of the inhabitants of that region really could pass as white after millenia of Roman, greek and Turkic migration... but i guess saying only brown and black people count as "accurate" Middle eastern people is somehow better in your eyes. Stuff like this doesnt challenge people to analyse the biases seen in HUMAN NATURE and strive to improve or at least remember said biases, it just seems like a bitter attempt to smear and demonise the intentions of people you or i will NEVER actually know, based entirely off your clear hatred for Western Europe
Orientalism of course rose out of a love and enchantment with aspects of those foreign cultures. The British loved Oriental cultures so much they have a massive treasure trove of other countries' antiquities in their museum. I don't think anybody is saying that the majority of people who produced orientalist artwork did so to purposely misrepresent those cultures for malicious reasons. But they were colonizers born believing in the might of their own country and culture. Their presentation of foreign cultures is like viewing an image through a skewed lens, naturally distorted, and the way they distorted it ultimately had a negative impact on the people from those cultures. It's false to think that because an artist genuinely loved the culture, their artwork isn't also problematic. But just because an artwork is orientalist doesn't mean it has no cultural or aesthetic value. I think people need to be educated about the context in which it was created and hear the voices of the people whose cultures were depicted in that artwork.
exactly!!! Although I wouldn't say it "rose out of a love and enchantment" but rather simple colonial curiosity.
I wave whenever I see Kit in the background! 😂
Also, I really love this painting. All the feels.
Thank you Mr. Baumgartner for yet another lovely restoration! I just marvel at the brilliant play of light and dark pigments in this painting - so stunning. One of the things I love most about your restorations is the introduction to artists whom I've not known of before, like this one. Thank you for that too. ♥️ **waving at Miss Kitt** ♥️
wow what a coincidence i'm in fact a long time MOROCCAN fan of the channel i watched pretty much all of your videos old and new keep it up im proud
wow, honestly one of my favourite portraits you've restored yet, simply stunning!
Colours are absolutely gorgeous with that yellowed gunk layer removed. The pinks were a surprise but they look just right.
Thank you for showing the many paintings of Middle-Eastern subjects-those are truly lovely to the eye!
It is a beautiful portrait, but more of a north african man, as Morocco is not in the middle east .🙌
@@NonoyaBiz-bx1pt yes, but I was referring to the other paintings he showed earlier in the video
Beautiful painting, you brought it back to life.
gorgeous! It well answers my thoughts about what happens with darker skin tones in paintings. I appreciate the artist skill to bring through so many little nuanced moments in a single image, and the flow of the light through his robe.
I wait as patiently as I can for new videos. I love watching what you do. Thanks you.
For once I disagree with your reductive opinion of Said's work. His work is a great insight of how western countries view other parts of the world, also it shows how racism, islamophobia etc takes place in western countries
I've learned the proper way to stretch a canvas because of you. Something that I needed, as I bought an unstreched painting from Greece last year.
Not familiar with Said's work, but I was disappointed to have the pushback against Orientalism dismissed so casually. I'm sure these artists did love the region and the subjects that they painted-- that doesn't preclude the work from exoticizing or fetishizing them. Unconscious bias is still bias. We can still acknowledge the beauty and craftsmanship of these paintings while acknowledging their problematic history.
The facial features truly came alive after you fixed everything back to the artists original vision.
I considered whether I should write this comment for a bit. I decided that I owe you this feedback if I respect your craftsmanship; and I sure do. While I was pleasantly surprised that you know that orientalism as a post-colonial research domain exists, I have to say that your judgment of Edward Saed and his groundbreaking book was simplistic and your criticism of how he exposed systemic racism in artistic depictions of the “East” was borderline offensive. I do hope that you actually read the book and maybe even go further and read the actual criticism of it by another brilliant thinker called Joseph Masad.
Such a beautiful painting, I love it.