Hey, Saints Unscripted community! It was so nice chatting with so many of you. I'm going to take off. But I can't wait until I'm back. And if you want to get a hold of me, just follow me on one of the 7 links they shared in the description. But my Facebook page is best. Cheers!
Just so well done. I am an orthodox christian but I think the point that we need to have some humility when it comes to our thoughts/perspective is something we need to remember. We all believe in God and may He have mercy on us all in our struggle. God help us.
Thank you for being so sincere. The truth is the truth. What matters is what God thinks of us. We do not have to pay attention to what they say. The big and spacious building will always mock, diminish and destroy. Thanks for being so smart, wise and so strong to clarify and encourage. Many will return because of your diligence.
I have an old cassette tape I recorded and kept from back in the day (I've since converted it into a CD.) It is about an Aaronic Priesthood fireside talk I attended at my Ward when I was younger. The speaker was Hyrum Wayne Smith a direct descendant of Hyrum Smith the brother of Joseph Smith. The talk was on (Building Your Own Testimony). Some of the things I remembered from that talk (as he told his own story about questioning his faith) was this: "Brethren, there is nothing wrong with doubting. There is something wrong with not doing anything about the doubts. We should be encouraged to doubt and ask questions. As you gain the answers to your questions, you become stronger." He then gave us a definition of wisdom. He said remember this brethren, "Wisdom is knowledge, rightly applied." He went on: "Brethren, everyone must gain his own testimony, and that is a very personal thing between you and The Lord. After some activity, some effort on your part, it is given as a gift. A sweet and powerful gift, and then we know it is true."
@@sumguuy I don't know. It's very old, 1979 I think. It was during the 150th anniversary of the restoration of the Priesthood. The sound quality now is very very poor. I might have to get back to you on that after I check with my brother who knows more about that stuff.
This is hard stuff. I've been a Free Methodist all of my life I recently gained a testimony of the truth of the book of Mormon. The problem is I'm extremely analytical and it doesn't add up sooooo many things don't add up. And the spirit isn't always a reliable way to decipher truth. The problem is God always points me back to the church which means it must be true. After working extremely hard talking with church members and a girl who I have fallen in love with who is in the church and discussing with them I decided to take a breather and ask again and then James 1:5 ended up being the verse of the day. I've been struggling with the belief that heavenly father was created. That doesn't sit well with me at all. I honestly don't want that to be true even if it is. But then this video came out and I watched it and I will just have faith even though it is hard. Also is it okay if I still prefer the Bible over the book of Mormon? I still don't think the book of Mormon is more important than the Bible I think it's more of the other way around and of LDS haven't read enough of their Bible. Anyways if youve read all of that please pray for me in the name of Jesus Christ and it will help!
The Bible is very important, no, it is extremely important to ones testimony of Jesus Christ, but The Book of Mormon is more beneficial in overcoming doubt and testifying of the restoration. Together is how they should be used and studied. Eternal is a difficult concept to grasp, but it is real. He whom we look to as God, or Heavenly Father, is real and He is Eternal. He is not a created being. He has always existed, as have you and I.
Best of luck to you Jaydon on your journey. If you are investigating the church, my only advice would be to take an honest, objective look at information from both the critical side and the faithful side. The truth will become evident.
Have a look at google Utah Lighthouse Ministries. note James 1:5 indicates wisdom. Wisdom is based on knowledge. knowledge is obtained by study. Study/research takes time. Invest the time. regards.
What Christopher says at 3:32 about anti-mormon literature. I read a lot of that before baptism. I then joined the church. I have since read a lot of so-called "anti" books and online material. Guess what? The church is still true.
Thank you thank you thank you. I am in a faith crisis right now I struggle to feel that god loves me at all. I have just trial on trial on trial. I am so thankfull for this episode right now
7 Behold, you have not understood; you have supposed that I would give it unto you, when you took no thought save it was to ask me. 8 But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right. - Doctrine and Covenants 9: 7-8
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is true. I love the principle of faith. I know that the Lord loves the principle of faith. The Lord rewards faith, even if that faith is only a particle to just believe. As you read the a Book of Mormon and just rely on the Lord to tell you through the Holy Spirit that it is true you will feel it start to grow inside of you. You will see that the Book of Mormon brings light into your life. It testifies of Christ and the Lord does not destroy faith but builds faith, He is the Light and Life of the world. Reading the Book of Mormon will NEVER bring evil into your life, but it fills your system with light. I know that the Book of Mormon is true.
I think one of the great things in my experience as a convert, is that as soon as I asked questions about the church, I was flooded with anti-Mormon stuff (never ask a question on Reddit, if you don't want 50 people filling your inbox with it!). Which doesn't sound great, but I was forced right at the start to recognise the fallibility of men and leadership, and disengage it from my faith, and my belief in the Heavenly family. Life had already shown me humans are just full of foibles, so believing it stopped at the church doors actually didn't make sense to me from the start. All of it actually reinforced my testimony, because I was able to research all the 'facts', and find the refutations, and most things do have decent answers. Yes, crazy stuff happened, no denying it - but show me the history of any church hasn't had its share of it! Unfortunately the history of the LDS church isn't far enough in the past for people to start overlooking it. All of that studying, of both anti and pro literature created a solid foundation that can't really be rocked by the propaganda. My testimony started to be built in Oliver Cowdery's story (read it if you haven't! Spirit inducing stuff right there!) , and those of members who leave, then come back after living the freedoms of secularism.. Not sure why they affect me so much, but maybe it has something to do with my own transition from a secular life! But Cowdery left because of men, and came back because of God - he had no reason to go back in the midst of all that turmoil (especially if he didn't believe JS and the BOM - he was there, he would know if it was true)! He had already been told he'd only ever be a 'normal' member, with no chance of going further after being baptised .. And yet! That blows my tiny mind :)
If I understand you correct, your advice is: BELIEVE! Then look for reason inside that mindset as to why you should believe, because if you believe , you will see the reasons you want to see. I suggest an alternative approach. DON'T BELIEVE! Question every single claim stated to you from the standpoint of "why should I believe?" not from "Why shouldn't I believe?" By having the standpoint of not believing, the level of proof, evidence and logic has to be at its greatest level to satisfy you. If there is a god (any god!) he, she or it should be able to meet your logical demands with ease.
I think your summary of what I said about how to believe is pretty good. But I don't think I'd say my advice in the video is to believe. I was speaking to people who want to believe. People who recognize the good, and want to believe but are struggling. If you don't want to believe, I think we'd have lots to talk about, but this video isn't really directed towards you. When I was a freshman in college, I had a philosophy professor. For the most part he did a great job keeping his own views out of it. But one lecture was on the history of philosophy about whether or not there was a God. At the end, he opened it up for questions. One person asked if he personally believed in God. What he said has really stuck with me, "I don't. But I wish I did. I look at the people who believe and they live so much better happier lives than I do. I wish I had that. But I just can't." I don't know that I agree that believers are always happier in every situation, but he wanted to believe and didn't know how. I've thought about that a lot. And this video was for people like him. That being said, though, belief has worked great for me, so even though it wasn't my advice in the video, I do think believing is great. I don't regret it.
Faith is hard BUT VITAL. Jumping out of an airplane, testing out a new medicine, eating a new diet; you will not see the outcome until you try it out, and then patiently looking for the results.
@@Jupiter_Crash I totally agree. I am not very sharp when it comes to using examples. The message I was trying to get across is that if I were to go on a specific diet recommended to me by my friends, my doctor, or even a scientist, I would not experience the outcome until I tried it. They could give me scientific proof that it works, but I would still have to take a leap of faith trusting that their evidence is valid. If it can be proven by someone else, then I should be able to replicate it myself; even then, I would still have to do something to replicate the evidence. Even though there may be scientific evidence of the diet to work and benefit my life, I would not experience It until took action. People say to me, "You should just try praying, my life is evidence that it works." But for me, I won't experience it relying on what they say. If I start a fitness program and I see thousands of people's lives improve, and there is scientific evidence that it will make anyone healthier, I should try it out right!. After following the program for a week, I might not see any results and decide to quit. Everybody that has followed the fitness program all the way through knows that if I were to keep going, I would eventually see my health increase. I think that's one thing this video is trying to get across; don't give up. Knowledge and understanding comes to you little by little. As a hobby, I play the piano. I started off doing what seemed like pointless exercises and lessons. If I expected myself to be able to play a difficult Chopin piece after having just taken the first few steps, and then later found out that I could not, I would have probably quit trying to learn anything more. Similarly, if I heard that Joseph Smith prayed to God and that the heavens opened to him as he saw Heavenly Father, and Jesus Christ, and then I expected to have a similar experience if I put forth the effort and pray, and then got discouraged when They didn't end up visiting me; it would be a normal reaction to give up trying since it didn't happen. The gospel teaches that we gain knowledge little by little, "line upon line, precept upon precept (2 Nephi 28:30)." Just like when I was learning to play the piano, or when I was learning to read, or when I was learning to drive, if I was to stop trying when things didn't go my way, I would have not been able to do any of those things leading up until today. When a roadblock hits you, don't give up. When you have a question on your mind that won't stop bugging you, don't give up, look for the answer. I think that's what this video's talking about. Sorry for using terrible examples again. These ones are probably even worse =)
Proving the Book of Mormon is a book translated from an ancient language about an actual ancient civilisation is impossible and it is obvious as to why but I choose to believe in the Church and that has done me good
In regards to the restoration of the Gospel and the Book of Mormon, there is ‘by design’ not enough evidence to prove its’ validity without question, but is enough evidence that its’ potential validity cannot be ignored. In this space between all proof, and no evidence, we are granted an opportunity where belief and faith can perfectly flourish and thrive.
A few years ago, the city council of Monza, Italy, barred pet owners from keeping goldfish in curved bowls... saying that it is cruel to keep a fish in a bowl with curved sides because, gazing out, the fish would have a distorted view of reality. But how do we know we have the true, undistorted picture of reality?
OK SO LET ME ASK YOU THIS, IF YOU TURN ON YOU'RE RADIO, WILL IT TURN ON?? Well that's see that requires faith, you have faith it will work because it has before! Now when you turn the radio on and it works , can you see the THE RADIO WAVES, NO YOU CAN'T,BUT YOU KNOW THEY ARE THERE, BECAUSE IT'S WORKING! IT'S THE SAME THING WITH GOD WE CAN'T ALWAYS SEE HIM ,OR HERE HIM, BU5 HE IS THERE, AND WE KNOW THIS TO BE TRUE, BECAUSE HE ANSWER'S PRAYERS! AND HE CREATED THE WORLD AND THE UNIVERSE WE LIVE IN! GOD ALSO CREATED SCIENCE, THE BIG BANG HAPPENED WHEN GOD CREATED THE WORLD!
@Tyler G ya kinda like a two year old who soiled his diaper and is hiding behind a big plant in the corner of the living room, thinking mom and dad can't see me. Yet something sure smells a bit fishy. 🧡💚💙💜❤💛😄
Daily Quote: Doubt Your Doubts. "We must never allow doubt to hold us prisoner and keep us from the divine love, peace, and gifts that come through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ." - Dieter F.
The divine center is a great resource for this topic. It’s based on the idea that if you put your faith in a person, idea, or the church rather than Christ then your faith is in a foundation that is unsure. The church holds his path and the gateway to return to him but it isn’t that faith center, Christ is!
I am the same way. I have a spirit that recognizes truth. So it is so hard for me when people struggle with negative and anti church things. Because it comes before me and it's almost humourous because my spirit knows. Absolutely knows. And I am also a converted member. I had to get my witness. And once you get that witness you just see these ignorant negative things and you almost laugh. However it is so hard to see others struggling with it when you don't. Those of us who know need to be there to help those who struggle. Good man! Keep enlightening people! Truth is truth. The evidence that is pro and positive is outstanding and will build faith.
The idea is to believe in God. The church is God's body. Therefore to believe in the church is to believe in God. God gave us his church and so it is good. All is created by God and is good.
Your title is misleading, since obviously if the church isn't true then leave for what is. That being said I seek out arguments adversarial to the church and the Book of Mormon, not because I have doubts but because in my case it encourages me to delve deeper into what I believe and why and I have needed to adjust my paradigms from time to time. Because I actively seek contrary arguments I rarely find any new facts anymore that attempt to contradict what I believe which I haven't found adequately addressed for me. As a young man how I addressed things I had no answer for like polygamy and black and the priesthood was to shelve those issues until I had more information on which to make a determination. mean while I would focus on those things that like my faith in God or testimony of the Book of Mormon that I knew were true trusting that eventually those things I didn't have answers for would resolve themselves when I knew more.
Why some are Trinitarian and some are not is such a good question. I think we will not know until we are supposed to know or we will get to a place where we just give it all to God and place ourselves in his arms as babes -- his children. Amen, amen, amen I say to you, amen. Thank you for this episode. Faith and trusting in God is the key.
This is a really great example of Latter Day Saints thinking. Please notice that In this 20min video that ALL The emphasis is on the LDS church exclusively, i.e. staying in, or being tempted to leave 'the church'. Jesus Christ himself was not mentioned once, Joseph Smith their founder/ prophet was mentioned several times. The word Bible was not mentioned either, however Joseph Smith's Book of Mormon was mentioned on several occasions, and we were told to 'read IT every day', again, no mention of reading the Bible. Here is classic Mormonism, Joseph Smith, his teachings and the church he founded take pre eminence ,( as his Book of Mormon does over the Bible). Hardly surprising as it is a LDS foundational Article of faith, (8th), that the Holy Bible cannot be fully trusted, on the other hand they are taught that Joseph Smith's Book of Mormon is 'the most correct book on earth.' God's testimony in the Bible is that he is eternal, unchanging, and the only God in existence, Joseph Smith's teachings refuted these points (and many other key Biblical doctrines). Sadly, Mormonism may help produce better people, but by trusting Joseph Smith and the personal revelations he claimed to have received directly from God, will simply make you a Mormon, but not a Bible believing Christian. So read the Bible, trust the real Jesus Christ of the Bible, and it's everlasting gospel, (the one Joseph Smith rejected). Kind regards to all especially the LDS folk.
This video was perfect timing for me (: I’ve been struggling creating a testimony on Joseph Smith and modern prophets. This was helpful but I’m still not fully there yet 🤷♀️
I'm glad you liked the video! And I'm so jealous that you're creating your testimony of Joseph Smith and modern prophets now. It's like watching a great movie, you can only do it for the first time once. Don't let anyone rush you. You know the steps to take. Do it on your time table.
Oh. Just finished the video. At no point does it address "what to do if the church ISN'T true" except to say "If you realize the church isn't true, just keep telling yourself it is, and then eventually you'll believe yourself, in spite of the overwhelming evidence against every single one of its truth claims." that's about the gist of it. Maybe you need a better title for this episode.
I served my mission in Chicago where Moody Bible institute was and they were the publishers of many tracts and books about Mormons. I read everything I was given but I soon realized that so much of it had been around a hundred years but we're not just misunderstandings or errors but we're in fact absolute lies. I listened to Dr. Walter Martin all the time for entertainment. It always sustained my faith because it was so full of falsehoods. Now with You Tube I see so many channels that act like the final word and when I watch them they are rehashing the same old thing and repeating the same logic.
16:46 You just said the reverse of how science works. You asked, "what's the point of faith if the answers can just be there for us?". However, that's literally the reason that science exists. Because we don't have all the answers. And the thing about faith is that it can be in direct conflict with science. It's one thing if you don't get all the answers from science. It's a completely different thing when science does give you the answers, but your faith contradicts science. And no matter what religion you're part of, your religion contradicts science in some way. If you can see those contradictions and choose to ignore that part of your religion to accept facts, then good for you. But if your faith contradicts science, and you choose your faith over science, then that's what's referred to as delusional. 17:38 WRONG! Nobody chooses what they believe. You can choose to research certain things that can impact what you believe. But belief is not a choice. You either believe something or you don't. Choice isn't truly a factor in belief. You can even make yourself believe something. But that's not the same as "just choosing to believe". The reason I'm an agnostic atheist is specifically because I can't just choose to believe something that contradicts reality. And the thing about wanting to believe something, then seeing reasons to believe it, is that 1) it gets you no closer to truth, and 2) if you're seeing reasons to believe, then technically you already do.
I'm a little late to this video, but I wanted to share my thoughts. You are getting caught in the trap of comparing how we learn about science to how we learn about God, religion, and meaning in life. Somethings are the same but I like to think about it as a relationship (it makes sense to me since God is our Father.) If you want to date someone who but won't talk to them, ask them out, or look at them you will lose faith in relationships really fast. On the other hand, if you put yourself out a little bit ask her out, buy her flowers, buy her chocolates every now and then your chance of building a relationship increases dramatically. The same true after you get married you must maintain the relationship or else you will seek approval elsewhere. To believe in God doesn't mean you have to disregard science it just means that you need to listen to his opinions (commandments) as you make decisions. If you don't do this with your girlfriend she will most likely leave you. The same is true with God.
Why is the BOM more important than than D&C, which actually contains the doctrines of the church and is not even a translation of anything written by men, but God actually speaking to us in modern times?
Ive read the book of mormon with an open mind multiple times ive prayed about it.. I was born and raised in the lds church but I just don't feel about it the same way you guys do. I do believe in god and jesus christ and the bible but the book of mormon and lds religion not so much
I like this episode. I liked what Mimi said about using resources like Fairmormon to get another side. Also the Interpreter Foundation is great as well. And Book of Mormon Central. I did all the anti stuff when I was investigating. But best of all I found Jesus Christ here and RELATIONSHIP with God. Most important of all!.
Yeah. The musical always makes me feel a bit weird because I literally was Elder Cunningham. On the plus side, if times ever get really tough, I could sell an authentic Elder Cunningham name tag on ebay. Edit: I realized that some people may not know we're talking about the Book of Mormon Musical that's on Broadway.
Why does it seem like almost all videos I see of Mormons on UA-cam is about them trying to justify their beliefs and prove that they're not crazy for believing them? I feel like when they study to become a missionary they learn all the "correct responses" to the flaws that the people they will encounter will point out about their religion. There's a reason why they feel this need to have a "defense" to every area of their beliefs.
In my opinion, the reason is lack of opportunity to voice our beliefs. Book of Mormon the musical was written by people who weren't associated with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Then, the people starring in it, were also not members! It's true that that musical spread out our religion, but it had so many things wrong about Christ's Gospel and His Doctrine that people had to research to find any answers as to what we truly believe. Not to mention, about 90% of the online conversation is dominated by people who are attacking the church and it's members. And I know that because I grew up with it. I'm sorry that it seems sketchy, that's just what it is and how it seems. But I know the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is true. And if you want to know whether it's true or false, you can know for yourself. You don't have to listen to anybody to find out. Just ask God.
@@ScottBub I have thought about that. And I realized that God communicates to me through the Holy Ghost, that which I received on the day of my baptism. I know this is true because of the following experience. When I was in middle school, around 14, I luckily lived close enough to walk. So, I walked to school every day. But, one day, as I was walking I noticed that one house on the street didn't have their garbage cans out on the road. (The garbage man was coming within the hour.) I immediately had a thought, "You should move those garbage cans to the road." I had originally thought that this was just a random thought, but I had recently read in Moroni 7:16 that, "Every thing which inviteth to do good... is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ;" So, I went and moved the garbage cans. And moved them back on my walk home from school. I later found out that the woman living there had her husband taken to the hospital the night before and was in so much distraught that taking out the garbage cans was too much pain for her to bear. I know for a fact that this incident was not a coincidence. Because the feeling in my heart that I felt when I found out was too strong for it to be in my imagination. The only answer is that God exists, and if we follow Him, we can be tools in His hands to help the rest of His children when they're in need. And I believe that's the reason why faith is so important.
@@ScottBub In regards to somebody who has had brain damage, I've never heard of any situation where they became incapable of hearing God. Do you think you could inform me?
@@mats460 I don't think your last point is a good argument. I don't believe simply asking God if a religion is true or not is the way to knowing. That is very vague to tell someone to ask God in order to find out. Once I ask, then how do I know? Will He talk to me? Will he make me "feel good" inside when I am thinking about it which will be the 'yes' I was awaiting? Faith is a lot deeper than emotions. We don't have our faith or practice our religion for the emotions we experience through worship. If I do a good deed I will 'feel good'. Let's define a good deed as an act of charity that a certain religion teaches. I would argue many religions teach people to do the same 'good deed'. So is each person able to conclude, based off the reasoning of 'know for yourself', that their religion is the true religion?
@@Zack-kk5xr I don't think I ever made an argument??.. If I came off that way, I apologize. I just wanted to answer your question. I don't think we'll agree on the fact that asking God is vague. However, that question of, "How will I know" is reasonable, and is the first question that SHOULD be asked. It's more than just a feeling. It always has been. I'm sorry that I can't tell you specifics, but that's the truth. God has spoken to me numerous times and it's undeniable. But in order to receive an answer, you need to have faith. I agree that faith is a lot deeper than emotions. Faith is knowing that everything will be okay. That everything will work out. Faith is trusting that God knows you, hears you, and will help you if you ask for Him. You don't need to prove to me that faith is more than just emotions. I think we both know that's it's true.
Thank you for this video! I just took out my endowments and have been feeling really afraid and confused. Just because the endowment ceremony is EXTREMELY different than anything else I have participated in previously in the church and because of that it has kind of made me question a lot of things and rethink my whole life/church. But I keep thinking that I have received blessings, answers to my prayers, and a number of spiritual experiences that all contribute to my testimony. So like I know the church is true, i just found the endowment confusing, and overwhelming. And like not a soul can really deny the spiritual presence found in the temple because it is so apparent. Like the church is true I'm just trying to mentally process the ordinance, which I have a hard time understanding but thank you so much for saying that its literally my choice to decide if I want to believe or if I don't. Because it made me realize that i do. So i guess i will just press forward with faith. I may not understand everything but I know that faith is where it all starts.
I had a very similar reaction when I was endowed in the temple 34 years ago. It was confusing to me. Overwhelming. I didn't understand it. Others I knew had the opposite reaction, so I knew it was just something about my mind and how I processed what was happening. Fast forward to now and I love the endowment ceremony at this point. I just kept going and praying. I was led to people (or they to me) in the temple who taught me deeper things about that I thought were amazing. It really was all centered around Jesus Christ. It's wonderful. Just keep going and praying. You'll learn more as you go.
Prepared to Obtain Every Needful Thing By David A. Bednar is a good talk to study to learn more about the endowment. As you study the scriptures you will see how much the scriptures talk about the truths found in the endowment.
Hey, long time fan here. I’m curious about how scripted these episodes are. Do you have an actual script or just a vague talking point? Also, there were a few moments in this when you guys expressed a misunderstanding of how belief works. Belief is not a choice.
On my episode we had an outline. I was super nervous, so I spent a lot of time ahead of time thinking of different stories and stuff I could share. But they weren't written down, and I didn't know when I'd say them until we were in the middle of the conversation. I certainly can't speak for everyone's experience, but for me belief is definitely a conscious choice I make. I don't think we decide what thoughts we get, or what conclusions are brain come to, but we aren't victims of those. We have agency to choose what we want to believe.
Christopher D. Cunningham - nah, I don’t think that’s right. Belief is based on something more than simple want. To demonstrate - Pick a god that you don’t believe in and just choose to believe in it. You can’t do it.
@@matthelion There is a difference between belief in something (God,Gospel, BOM, etc.) in spite of some reservations or unanswered questions, and a belief in something that contradicts known ideas, and answered questions. In regards to the restoration of the Gospel and the Book of Mormon, there is ‘by design’ not enough evidence to prove its’ validity without question, but is enough evidence that its’ potential validity cannot be ignored. In this space between all proof, and no evidence, we are granted an opportunity where belief and faith can perfectly flourish and thrive. “Argument does not create conviction, but the lack of it destroys belief.” - C.S. Lewis
5 Pray always, that you may come off conqueror; yea, that you may conquer Satan, and that you may escape the hands of the servants of Satan that do uphold his work. 6 Behold, they have sought to destroy you; yea, even the man in whom you have trusted has sought to destroy you. - Doctrine and Covenants 10: 5-6
Contrary to what the video claims, I found that much of the supposed "anti-Mormon" critical material that I read turned out to be much more truthful than the apologetics which I found to be full of logical fallacies and intellectual dishonesty.
@cindybin2001 Actually, it's the extremely compelling and damning evidence that shows that the church isn't true. Evidence like the fact that according to LDS and non-LDS Egyptologists, the Egyptian papyri that Joseph used to translate the Book of Abraham has nothing to do with Abraham. Evidence like the fact that indigenous Americans do not have DNA that would suggest any sort of old world migration contemporary to the Book of Mormon time-frame. And this is just the tip of the iceberg.
@cindybin2001 I don't know if you're being facetious or not, but don't take my word for it. Study for yourself. Read the essays on lds.org and follow the references. Read critical and apologetic material to get as many viewpoints as possible. For me, I felt that my eternal salvation was at stake so I was super careful with all information and tried to be as honest and objective as possible. In any case, best of luck to you on your journey.
@@calebsandorf "That doubt which feeds and grows upon itself, and, with stubborn indolence, breeds more doubt, is evil… Stagnant doubt does not lead to knowing the reality of the Savior, Jesus Christ; it does not lead to really knowing that we have a kind, loving Heavenly Father. We can come to know the truthfulness of this latter-day work, but it requires that we choose faith, not doubt, and that we go to the right sources for our answers" - Renlund 2018... So yeah, doubting is good...???
Sorry, I’m not saying we should try to doubt everything, I just meant that it’s normal to have doubts and when we do have doubts, if we can overcome them then it can help to strengthen our testimonies.
Faith is hard BUT VITAL. Jumping out of an airplane, testing out a new medicine, eating a new diet; you will not see the outcome until you try it out, and then patiently looking for the results.
That part about being able to choose what you believe is not completely true. You can certainly argue your way into almost any belief, but you simply can't truly believe something first and then say why later.
Why do I have to have faith in a god before I can know if that god is even real? Can you think of any other truth claim that you have to first believe in order to find out whether it’s true?
Here's a question for you all: what was the first vision? Joseph Smith himself makes multiple different versions about it, see for yourself: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Vision . One may argue that the main point is still made, but from a historical point of view it is hardly reliable, especially given that it is a supernatural event, which by definition are the least probable things to occur. I suggest watching this channel for an in-depth view of Mormon history, and decide for yourself is the church is true: ua-cam.com/video/Qy3avtd-PZM/v-deo.html . Please don't shrug it off simply because the person is an ex-mormon: they represent another side of the story. If you only look at one side and let other people sugarcoat the opposing view, how will you ever find out the truth?
Here's a theory as to why there are multiple different accounts. Joseph Smith recounted the story several times, at several different points of his life. Therefore, his perspective likely was not kept constant. Also, people tend to remember different details at different times. Had it been a lie, it would likely be itentical every time he recounted it.
❤🧡💛💚💙💜❤ Love this, so much! I really connected with the notion of being blessed with the capability of believing. It sucks, trying to explain to people how I believe in a religion so much, even though I have had a hard time with living the standards. They just can't wrap their minds around the fact that the church can be true, even though I struggled with this, or that. I believe, because I do. I can't deny certain experiences I've had, and even though I might have been a horrible example in the past... that doesn't mean I question(ed) the validity of my faith, or the gospel. To be fair, if (Huge Hypothetical IF) the church weren't true... I dunno.. it's almost an impossible Hypothetical! That's like saying "If God weren't real" or "if God didn't answer prayers.." . It feels almost blasphemous to even entertain the notion. BUT,, for the sake of argument for those who need that WHAT IF answer... IF the church weren't true, I have no doubts whatsoever that Heavenly Father would still be like "Wow, Sherry. You had amazing faith, and did your best with what you had. I love you. " And I still wouldn't go to hell. I'm so eternally grateful that the church IS true, and for the experiences I've had, because... I'm a hot mess without Him. I'm so glad I was given my funky brain that makes everything harder. Because of my funky brain, I have compassion; and maybe I can help others who have funky brains to find the peace, and love, and crazy-hard-to-kill kind of faith that I have. I love this channel so much!! On a side note, blistex and carmex are bad for your lips. They have an ingredient in them that causes your lips to get all dry and crap, once you stop using it. Power through it, and use a non medicated beeswax lip balm!
Ugh - this is hard. As someone who has left, i respect people who have stayed. i share DNA with quite a few of them. i sometimes wonder what the difference is between faith and a persistent delusion. People have lost faith in all kinds of things. They've lost faith in Vladimir Putin, in communism, in the democratic party, in Donald Trump, in conservative principles, in Warren Jeffs, in Pope Francis, and everything in between. Which ones is it good to lose faith in? The wrong ones of course. Which ones are the ones it's good to keep your faith in? The good ones of course. And those are questions it's utterly critical to come to a consensus on before saying anything about the nature of keeping faith, or having doubts. And as critical as that is, it's even more impossible. You people all take a lot of flak for this channel. i just want to say that i am sad that so many people take their frustration and anger and pain and confusion out on you. It changes nothing, and poisons everything - and is as sad as it is understandable (at least for me). i hope you can forgive all the people who foist anti literature on you. i think they do it only because something that has been fused into them from a million different places from the day they were born has been ripped out of their souls. And what do you do then? When it can never be the same even as it was, while everyone else tells you that it must be. When the only way to not be wrong in the eyes of the people who made up the vast majority of your world is to make them wrong? Lots of people would call me a moral relativist - but really, i'm just not a huge fan of zero sum games. The polarity they create is far worse than the improvements the proponents of both sides cite as reasons for their ultimate importance. May God have mercy on us all. Because i am not sure there is any other answer to all this.
@@ScottBub Thank-you. Just to clarify - to the extent that your comment was even directed at me. i am not sure i claim to know what truth is when it comes to religion - or the lack thereof. i thought i did once. But that was shattered, and i don't really claim to now. i know that being kind and respectful and compassionate and giving are good. Beyond that, i draw a blank. i sometimes think our (or at least my) inability to know anything beyond that is an indication that just about everything else doesn't matter all that much. It hurts to have someone call a gut-wrenching decision a lack of faith - that holds an assumption that maintaining faith is the obviously right thing to do. But i am sure the people who label it as such have been hurt just as badly themselves. Once i get past any anger and indignation, it's all just profoundly sad. i hope that God - whatever God ends up being - can fix things up so they are OK again. And OK for everyone - not just for me.
@@ScottBub Thank-you very much. And believe me, i am no apologist for any of the doctrines of this church. i've left, and am not coming back. And i don't know all the reasons why the world is as it is. i have no good explanation for suffering, or unfairness, or anything. And the absolute last thing i want to be is in charge with a spouse of some world. i can't for the life of me see what the draw in that one is. i hope in God - but it's just hope. That said, what i hope in, i get to define. Personally, i do think there is something. i doubt it is a 70 year old white male with a beard. i think that everyone will make it in the end. That the only hell is the one people create for themselves - and that when the person has figured out that is not a good idea, it will end for them. One thing that has brought me peace is listening to this near death experience by Amy Call - you can find it on UA-cam. Who knows - but that is the kind of things that makes sense to me. Might be worth checking out. Though again, i don't claim to know. i hope - but that hope is just my own. i hope you find some peace.
I left and came back! But even know I don’t know at all! I don’t. And for me it’s about what brings me joy and I think sometimes this church doesn’t provide the joy or answers that some people need and that’s okay. All we can do is love and look out for each other. God bless you! :)
I stumbled upon this video by accident and while not Mormon (because it's fairly clear in my opinion that the it's BS) I do have a level of respect for the fact you keep all these comments from people that disagree with you up, there are unfortunately a lot of people that would rather hide the criticisms of their ideas.
My faith was shaken because reality suffered from what the spiritual “burning in my bosom” had told me was going to happen if I kept the commandments. I then took a break from the church and researched what I had previously referred to as “anti-Mormon” with a genuine curiosity. A month or two later I recognized the church isn’t true. So I left. I am an atheist now. PS, the reason that people use “anti-Mormon” church history is because ridiculous claims were made by the early history of the church based on nothing. Today ridiculous claims are made by the current church leaders based on the early history of the church. Gordon B Hinckley said that the Gospel works or fails based on the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon. So, all I really looked into was truthfulness of the Book of Mormon. Long story short, Joseph Smith made up a fake book of scripture and it’s been proven historically false and implausible in many categories.
So you altered your entire lifestyle, and changed your entire enteral perspective, based on what men say about a book rather than actually looking at what the book says about itself?? Sounds like such a huge decision to be making all on the whims of what some antagonistic, propaganda driven men, believe! Looks like you were to focused on the shallow details to understand the purpose. I think there is a saying about that, something along the lines of not being able to see the forest for the trees.
You do not need other men to tell you the Book of Mormon is false. The book disproves itself. And JUST believing, is one of the most harmful things you could ever preach. People kill themselves based off of just believing. Don’t believe me? Check out heavens gate or any of the other cults who their leaders preach to just believe! The end is near! I have the truth! Believe me! I will not. Never again. And I don’t have to because I stoped just believing the Mormon church and found the truth. I hope that one day maybe, just maybe, like your misleading title, entertain the fact that what you are following actually isn’t true. Because what then, you never even answered it. If God told you the church wasn’t true and wanted to show you his true essence and reality, don’t you think you would be sad you missed it because you were too busy just believing something else.
The way the talk about "anti-mormons" is really insensitive. They're not "antis" they are people. Please accept that with the information they have been given they have decided that it is unreasonable to continue believing. Also know that they have been where you are. They likely had a testimony the burned as bright as yours. But you have not been where they are. See them as people with different life experiences than you. They're not "anti-mormons". They're just people trying their best.
I understand what you're getting at, but at the same time, it's just a term to describe what they are. A 'mormon' is just a person who believes in the church, and an 'antimormon' is just someone who doesn't believe in it and wants to tell why. It's not inherently disrespectful
@@Asarrrrrr but, by definition, antimormons don't like the church. Yeah they're people, and they have their reasons for not liking/agreeing with it, but that's the main thing these guys are trying to address.
@@mintbrownieangelfish-6114 It's annoying when they conflate them to hating the church is all they are and don't bother to maybe understand their pov in the first place. Bc they're "anti's" their opinions are automatically invalid and evil. It's all one sided
When trying to make sense of anti-mormon literature you have to take Occam's razor in consideration. You can honestly just say "because God wills it so" to any controversial thing that makes the mormon church false. Or you can just accept the FACT that, yes, Joseph DID try to translate the Kinderhook plates HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA. To this day I still laugh out loud when i remember the kinderhook plates. Everything else was funny, too, but this one's just tickles me at the right spot.
#1 rule of the mormon church is to stay loyal. If you're not loyal you've been deceived by the devil and you're an apostate. Couldn't even listen to a full 4 minutes. Heavy gaslighting (calling anything that doesn't 100% agree with the mormon church "negative" or "anti"). Doubt there was any real thought put into whatever advice was provided.
I hope I didn't call anyone who doesn't 100% agree with the church Anti. I certainly don't believe that. But if you're going around accusing us of gaslighting, and saying that we don't think about what we say, then maybe in your case you are anti. I don't know. Maybe. Besides, the first four minutes are mostly about lip balm.
after the discussion of hey-o and lip balm 1:57 accosted by negative things 2:35 negative - some people might not faith in the church yet 2:50 some will send a lot of anit mormon stuff to those investigating 2:57 those sources are very one sided and don't use actual facts "as we believe them" 3:03 misinterpretations and miscommunications 3:12 something a lot of you guys are struggling with 3:25 anti 3:30 your mission story 3:33 anti mormon 3:45 make it my business to read anti mormon material 3:48 what ever people are saying to try to tear down the church To me all this was a clear slant towards anything that didn't agree with the mormon church is labeled anti or negative, something can be true without it being negative or anti. Blanket labeling like that is as bad as Trump calling news he doesn't like "fake". Labeling all non approved mormon chrurch source as one sided, anti or negative is gaslighting, you're stating that sources that aren't mormon church approved are automatically incorrect and we shouldn't listen to at all. It's unhealthy and showed me that no real discussion of the topic was going to happen. If all you're discussions are is how to stay loyal to the church without addressing the real questions real people have it doesn't help, the faithful will stay faithful and those who are marginalized for "doubting" or doing anything the mormon church doesn't approve of will "leave".
@@davegolightly3754 Look, Dave, if you're not anti-Mormon we weren't talking about you. But if you want to say that pamphlets whose sole purpose is to oppose (anti) the beliefs of Latter-day Saints (Mormon) isn't anti-Mormon material, then I guess I have to wonder whose gaslighting who.
@@christopherd.cunningham2375 I never thought you were talking about me. I'm saying you can't have a real discussion about something if you discount it from the beginning. I tried to give your video a chance. I was a faithful attending member of the mormon church up until a couple years ago. Part of me still looks to see if I've missed something and I thought this video could provide a view I hadn't considered. The first few minutes of this video indicated it wasn't going to provide a new way of looking at things or some new information. Just because a pamphlet presents a different view point doesn't mean it's sole intent is to oppose a belief or a religion. It's intent could be to introduce your mind to something new (there's no way a pamphlet can provide much more than introduction to anything). I can tell you the times I've grown the most as a person is when I've opened my mind and at times that has entailed listening and trying to understand something that doesn't agree 100% or at all.
@@christopherd.cunningham2375 And when it was put out there that someone who was struggling after hearing something anti was because they didn't have enough faith to me is absolute gaslighting. It was blaming the person who didn't have enough faith and lumping a lot of those who struggle as weak when it comes to faith. As one who has gone through this it is belittling, it is very judgemental. I am one of those who are sincerely seeking the truth, who have a large portion of their life dependent on the outcome. This video marginalizes a large population without a sincere attempt to understand what they're struggling with. (edit: to clarify wording)
I have this same feeling anti-Mormon material never shakes me! If you want to leave the church,,,,,,any excuse will do,,,,,so they leave for all these dumb reasons! Search search pray and move forward become stronger in the Gospel....
The Mormon church needs to stop saying they are Christians because there is only one God according to Christians and the Mormons believe that you can be an exalted God, which is contrary to the bible. So, there are many exalted Gods out there according to the Mormon church doctrine, people leave the church because they have been deceived, they have not been told the truth about God. 2 Cor 11:4 For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you may well put up with it. The Mormon church needs to tell the whole truth, they change GOD'S WORD in the bible, they are not upfront with Joseph's Polygamy, they used Freemason symbols in the temple ceremony, there are pagan symbols on the church Temples from Freemasonry. They believe their Books are authentic when they have never been proven historically or by archeologists. The list goes on.
Hey, Saints Unscripted community! It was so nice chatting with so many of you. I'm going to take off. But I can't wait until I'm back. And if you want to get a hold of me, just follow me on one of the 7 links they shared in the description. But my Facebook page is best.
Cheers!
It was SO nice meeting you and having you on the show! Thank you so much for sharing your insights with us!
silly thing but Nivea Smoothness lip balm is quite good. you might become a convert :)
Just so well done. I am an orthodox christian but I think the point that we need to have some humility when it comes to our thoughts/perspective is something we need to remember. We all believe in God and may He have mercy on us all in our struggle. God help us.
Thank you for being so sincere. The truth is the truth. What matters is what God thinks of us. We do not have to pay attention to what they say. The big and spacious building will always mock, diminish and destroy. Thanks for being so smart, wise and so strong to clarify and encourage. Many will return because of your diligence.
I've read the Deckers, the Tanners, and worse. And my faith remains unshaken.
I have an old cassette tape I recorded and kept from back in the day (I've since converted it into a CD.) It is about an Aaronic Priesthood fireside talk I attended at my Ward when I was younger. The speaker was Hyrum Wayne Smith a direct descendant of Hyrum Smith the brother of Joseph Smith. The talk was on (Building Your Own Testimony). Some of the things I remembered from that talk (as he told his own story about questioning his faith) was this: "Brethren, there is nothing wrong with doubting. There is something wrong with not doing anything about the doubts. We should be encouraged to doubt and ask questions. As you gain the answers to your questions, you become stronger." He then gave us a definition of wisdom. He said remember this brethren, "Wisdom is knowledge, rightly applied." He went on: "Brethren, everyone must gain his own testimony, and that is a very personal thing between you and The Lord. After some activity, some effort on your part, it is given as a gift. A sweet and powerful gift, and then we know it is true."
Can I have it as an audio file?
@@sumguuy I don't know. It's very old, 1979 I think. It was during the 150th anniversary of the restoration of the Priesthood. The sound quality now is very very poor. I might have to get back to you on that after I check with my brother who knows more about that stuff.
KevlarX2 that was one of the most powerful comments I have ever read. Thank you so much for sharing
This is hard stuff. I've been a Free Methodist all of my life I recently gained a testimony of the truth of the book of Mormon. The problem is I'm extremely analytical and it doesn't add up sooooo many things don't add up. And the spirit isn't always a reliable way to decipher truth. The problem is God always points me back to the church which means it must be true. After working extremely hard talking with church members and a girl who I have fallen in love with who is in the church and discussing with them I decided to take a breather and ask again and then James 1:5 ended up being the verse of the day. I've been struggling with the belief that heavenly father was created. That doesn't sit well with me at all. I honestly don't want that to be true even if it is. But then this video came out and I watched it and I will just have faith even though it is hard. Also is it okay if I still prefer the Bible over the book of Mormon? I still don't think the book of Mormon is more important than the Bible I think it's more of the other way around and of LDS haven't read enough of their Bible. Anyways if youve read all of that please pray for me in the name of Jesus Christ and it will help!
Good luck! We're praying for you.
The Bible is very important, no, it is extremely important to ones testimony of Jesus Christ, but The Book of Mormon is more beneficial in overcoming doubt and testifying of the restoration. Together is how they should be used and studied.
Eternal is a difficult concept to grasp, but it is real. He whom we look to as God, or Heavenly Father, is real and He is Eternal. He is not a created being. He has always existed, as have you and I.
Best of luck to you Jaydon on your journey. If you are investigating the church, my only advice would be to take an honest, objective look at information from both the critical side and the faithful side. The truth will become evident.
Personally, new testiment is my fav! Are we allowed to have fav's? Lol.
Have a look at google Utah Lighthouse Ministries. note James 1:5 indicates wisdom. Wisdom is based on knowledge. knowledge is obtained by study. Study/research takes time. Invest the time. regards.
What Christopher says at 3:32 about anti-mormon literature. I read a lot of that before baptism. I then joined the church. I have since read a lot of so-called "anti" books and online material. Guess what? The church is still true.
Thank you thank you thank you. I am in a faith crisis right now I struggle to feel that god loves me at all. I have just trial on trial on trial. I am so thankfull for this episode right now
7 Behold, you have not understood; you have supposed that I would give it unto you, when you took no thought save it was to ask me.
8 But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right. - Doctrine and Covenants 9: 7-8
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is true. I love the principle of faith. I know that the Lord loves the principle of faith. The Lord rewards faith, even if that faith is only a particle to just believe. As you read the a Book of Mormon and just rely on the Lord to tell you through the Holy Spirit that it is true you will feel it start to grow inside of you. You will see that the Book of Mormon brings light into your life. It testifies of Christ and the Lord does not destroy faith but builds faith, He is the Light and Life of the world. Reading the Book of Mormon will NEVER bring evil into your life, but it fills your system with light. I know that the Book of Mormon is true.
I think one of the great things in my experience as a convert, is that as soon as I asked questions about the church, I was flooded with anti-Mormon stuff (never ask a question on Reddit, if you don't want 50 people filling your inbox with it!). Which doesn't sound great, but I was forced right at the start to recognise the fallibility of men and leadership, and disengage it from my faith, and my belief in the Heavenly family. Life had already shown me humans are just full of foibles, so believing it stopped at the church doors actually didn't make sense to me from the start.
All of it actually reinforced my testimony, because I was able to research all the 'facts', and find the refutations, and most things do have decent answers. Yes, crazy stuff happened, no denying it - but show me the history of any church hasn't had its share of it! Unfortunately the history of the LDS church isn't far enough in the past for people to start overlooking it. All of that studying, of both anti and pro literature created a solid foundation that can't really be rocked by the propaganda.
My testimony started to be built in Oliver Cowdery's story (read it if you haven't! Spirit inducing stuff right there!) , and those of members who leave, then come back after living the freedoms of secularism.. Not sure why they affect me so much, but maybe it has something to do with my own transition from a secular life! But Cowdery left because of men, and came back because of God - he had no reason to go back in the midst of all that turmoil (especially if he didn't believe JS and the BOM - he was there, he would know if it was true)! He had already been told he'd only ever be a 'normal' member, with no chance of going further after being baptised .. And yet! That blows my tiny mind :)
What a great story!
Do you have a link? That sounds interesting
Oliver Cowdery was upset about the Fanny Alger affair. I would have been, too.
Thank you for sharing this. Oliver Cowdery's story has also touched me deeply as a new convert and recent investigator. God is good
After the trial of your Faith you will receive the witness.
If I understand you correct, your advice is: BELIEVE! Then look for reason inside that mindset as to why you should believe, because if you believe , you will see the reasons you want to see.
I suggest an alternative approach. DON'T BELIEVE! Question every single claim stated to you from the standpoint of "why should I believe?" not from "Why shouldn't I believe?" By having the standpoint of not believing, the level of proof, evidence and logic has to be at its greatest level to satisfy you. If there is a god (any god!) he, she or it should be able to meet your logical demands with ease.
I think your summary of what I said about how to believe is pretty good. But I don't think I'd say my advice in the video is to believe. I was speaking to people who want to believe. People who recognize the good, and want to believe but are struggling. If you don't want to believe, I think we'd have lots to talk about, but this video isn't really directed towards you.
When I was a freshman in college, I had a philosophy professor. For the most part he did a great job keeping his own views out of it. But one lecture was on the history of philosophy about whether or not there was a God. At the end, he opened it up for questions. One person asked if he personally believed in God. What he said has really stuck with me, "I don't. But I wish I did. I look at the people who believe and they live so much better happier lives than I do. I wish I had that. But I just can't."
I don't know that I agree that believers are always happier in every situation, but he wanted to believe and didn't know how. I've thought about that a lot. And this video was for people like him.
That being said, though, belief has worked great for me, so even though it wasn't my advice in the video, I do think believing is great. I don't regret it.
Faith is hard BUT VITAL. Jumping out of an airplane, testing out a new medicine, eating a new diet; you will not see the outcome until you try it out, and then patiently looking for the results.
@@Jupiter_Crash I totally agree.
I am not very sharp when it comes to using examples.
The message I was trying to get across is that if I were to go on a specific diet recommended to me by my friends, my doctor, or even a scientist, I would not experience the outcome until I tried it. They could give me scientific proof that it works, but I would still have to take a leap of faith trusting that their evidence is valid. If it can be proven by someone else, then I should be able to replicate it myself; even then, I would still have to do something to replicate the evidence. Even though there may be scientific evidence of the diet to work and benefit my life, I would not experience It until took action. People say to me, "You should just try praying, my life is evidence that it works." But for me, I won't experience it relying on what they say.
If I start a fitness program and I see thousands of people's lives improve, and there is scientific evidence that it will make anyone healthier, I should try it out right!. After following the program for a week, I might not see any results and decide to quit. Everybody that has followed the fitness program all the way through knows that if I were to keep going, I would eventually see my health increase. I think that's one thing this video is trying to get across; don't give up. Knowledge and understanding comes to you little by little.
As a hobby, I play the piano. I started off doing what seemed like pointless exercises and lessons. If I expected myself to be able to play a difficult Chopin piece after having just taken the first few steps, and then later found out that I could not, I would have probably quit trying to learn anything more. Similarly, if I heard that Joseph Smith prayed to God and that the heavens opened to him as he saw Heavenly Father, and Jesus Christ, and then I expected to have a similar experience if I put forth the effort and pray, and then got discouraged when They didn't end up visiting me; it would be a normal reaction to give up trying since it didn't happen.
The gospel teaches that we gain knowledge little by little, "line upon line, precept upon precept (2 Nephi 28:30)." Just like when I was learning to play the piano, or when I was learning to read, or when I was learning to drive, if I was to stop trying when things didn't go my way, I would have not been able to do any of those things leading up until today. When a roadblock hits you, don't give up. When you have a question on your mind that won't stop bugging you, don't give up, look for the answer. I think that's what this video's talking about.
Sorry for using terrible examples again. These ones are probably even worse =)
Believing is seeing
like holy writ says
eyes of understanding
Proving the Book of Mormon is a book translated from an ancient language about an actual ancient civilisation is impossible and it is obvious as to why but I choose to believe in the Church and that has done me good
In regards to the restoration of the Gospel and the Book of Mormon, there is ‘by design’ not enough evidence to prove its’ validity without question, but is enough evidence that its’ potential validity cannot be ignored. In this space between all proof, and no evidence, we are granted an opportunity where belief and faith can perfectly flourish and thrive.
A few years ago, the city council of Monza, Italy, barred pet owners from keeping goldfish in curved bowls... saying that it is cruel to keep a fish in a bowl with curved sides because, gazing out, the fish would have a distorted view of reality.
But how do we know we have the true, undistorted picture of reality?
What a great metaphor. I should have used that instead of the circle optical illusion. I hope you don't mind if I use it in the future.
OK SO LET ME ASK YOU THIS, IF YOU TURN ON YOU'RE RADIO, WILL IT TURN ON?? Well that's see that requires faith, you have faith it will work because it has before! Now when you turn the radio on and it works , can you see the THE RADIO WAVES, NO YOU CAN'T,BUT YOU KNOW THEY ARE THERE, BECAUSE IT'S WORKING! IT'S THE SAME THING WITH GOD WE CAN'T ALWAYS SEE HIM ,OR HERE HIM, BU5 HE IS THERE, AND WE KNOW THIS TO BE TRUE, BECAUSE HE ANSWER'S PRAYERS! AND HE CREATED THE WORLD AND THE UNIVERSE WE LIVE IN! GOD ALSO CREATED SCIENCE, THE BIG BANG HAPPENED WHEN GOD CREATED THE WORLD!
calm down@@stardustgirl2904, i am just a fish in a bowl....
you can see me in the video 😅
@Tyler G ya so cute😁
@Tyler G ya kinda like a two year old who soiled his diaper and is hiding behind a big plant in the corner of the living room, thinking mom and dad can't see me. Yet something sure smells a bit fishy. 🧡💚💙💜❤💛😄
Daily Quote: Doubt Your Doubts. "We must never allow doubt to hold us prisoner and keep us from the divine love, peace, and gifts that come through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ." - Dieter F.
I’m struggling with my faith. I’m coming back to church and get my ordinances back in December, I feel alone and hope I can just get back on track
Can you have Telltale on your show in the future please? :)
Or at least a response video to his response videos about your channel. ?
Joey Feliciano why?
Lol they ain't gonna do that
That would be awesome
That would be intriguing
The divine center is a great resource for this topic. It’s based on the idea that if you put your faith in a person, idea, or the church rather than Christ then your faith is in a foundation that is unsure. The church holds his path and the gateway to return to him but it isn’t that faith center, Christ is!
I am the same way. I have a spirit that recognizes truth. So it is so hard for me when people struggle with negative and anti church things. Because it comes before me and it's almost humourous because my spirit knows. Absolutely knows.
And I am also a converted member. I had to get my witness. And once you get that witness you just see these ignorant negative things and you almost laugh. However it is so hard to see others struggling with it when you don't. Those of us who know need to be there to help those who struggle. Good man! Keep enlightening people! Truth is truth. The evidence that is pro and positive is outstanding and will build faith.
The idea is to believe in God. The church is God's body. Therefore to believe in the church is to believe in God. God gave us his church and so it is good. All is created by God and is good.
Your title is misleading, since obviously if the church isn't true then leave for what is.
That being said I seek out arguments adversarial to the church and the Book of Mormon, not because I have doubts but because in my case it encourages me to delve deeper into what I believe and why and I have needed to adjust my paradigms from time to time. Because I actively seek contrary arguments I rarely find any new facts anymore that attempt to contradict what I believe which I haven't found adequately addressed for me.
As a young man how I addressed things I had no answer for like polygamy and black and the priesthood was to shelve those issues until I had more information on which to make a determination. mean while I would focus on those things that like my faith in God or testimony of the Book of Mormon that I knew were true trusting that eventually those things I didn't have answers for would resolve themselves when I knew more.
Why some are Trinitarian and some are not is such a good question. I think we will not know until we are supposed to know or we will get to a place where we just give it all to God and place ourselves in his arms as babes -- his children. Amen, amen, amen I say to you, amen. Thank you for this episode. Faith and trusting in God is the key.
This is a really great example of Latter Day Saints thinking.
Please notice that In this 20min video that ALL The emphasis is on the LDS church exclusively, i.e. staying in, or being tempted to leave 'the church'.
Jesus Christ himself was not mentioned once, Joseph Smith their founder/ prophet was mentioned several times.
The word Bible was not mentioned either, however Joseph Smith's Book of Mormon was mentioned on several occasions, and we were told to 'read IT every day', again, no mention of reading the Bible.
Here is classic Mormonism, Joseph Smith, his teachings and the church he founded take pre eminence ,( as his Book of Mormon does over the Bible).
Hardly surprising as it is a LDS foundational Article of faith, (8th),
that the Holy Bible cannot be fully trusted, on the other hand they are taught that Joseph Smith's Book of Mormon is 'the most correct book on earth.'
God's testimony in the Bible is that he is eternal, unchanging, and the only God in existence, Joseph Smith's teachings refuted these points (and many other key Biblical doctrines).
Sadly, Mormonism may help produce better people, but by trusting Joseph Smith and the personal revelations he claimed to have received directly from God, will simply make you a Mormon, but not a Bible believing Christian.
So read the Bible, trust the real Jesus Christ of the Bible, and it's everlasting gospel, (the one Joseph Smith rejected).
Kind regards to all especially the LDS folk.
The Bible explains what happens, The Book of Mormon explains why it happens . Read them with this point of view and your eyes will be opened
🎶 Turn it off! Like a light switch! 🎵
This video was perfect timing for me (: I’ve been struggling creating a testimony on Joseph Smith and modern prophets. This was helpful but I’m still not fully there yet 🤷♀️
I'm glad you liked the video!
And I'm so jealous that you're creating your testimony of Joseph Smith and modern prophets now.
It's like watching a great movie, you can only do it for the first time once.
Don't let anyone rush you. You know the steps to take. Do it on your time table.
Oh. Just finished the video. At no point does it address "what to do if the church ISN'T true" except to say "If you realize the church isn't true, just keep telling yourself it is, and then eventually you'll believe yourself, in spite of the overwhelming evidence against every single one of its truth claims." that's about the gist of it. Maybe you need a better title for this episode.
I served my mission in Chicago where Moody Bible institute was and they were the publishers of many tracts and books about Mormons. I read everything I was given but I soon realized that so much of it had been around a hundred years but we're not just misunderstandings or errors but we're in fact absolute lies. I listened to Dr. Walter Martin all the time for entertainment. It always sustained my faith because it was so full of falsehoods. Now with You Tube I see so many channels that act like the final word and when I watch them they are rehashing the same old thing and repeating the same logic.
16:46
You just said the reverse of how science works. You asked, "what's the point of faith if the answers can just be there for us?". However, that's literally the reason that science exists. Because we don't have all the answers. And the thing about faith is that it can be in direct conflict with science. It's one thing if you don't get all the answers from science. It's a completely different thing when science does give you the answers, but your faith contradicts science. And no matter what religion you're part of, your religion contradicts science in some way. If you can see those contradictions and choose to ignore that part of your religion to accept facts, then good for you. But if your faith contradicts science, and you choose your faith over science, then that's what's referred to as delusional.
17:38
WRONG! Nobody chooses what they believe. You can choose to research certain things that can impact what you believe. But belief is not a choice. You either believe something or you don't. Choice isn't truly a factor in belief. You can even make yourself believe something. But that's not the same as "just choosing to believe". The reason I'm an agnostic atheist is specifically because I can't just choose to believe something that contradicts reality. And the thing about wanting to believe something, then seeing reasons to believe it, is that 1) it gets you no closer to truth, and 2) if you're seeing reasons to believe, then technically you already do.
I'd like to say amen, but not sure if it's appropriate in this case.
I'm a little late to this video, but I wanted to share my thoughts. You are getting caught in the trap of comparing how we learn about science to how we learn about God, religion, and meaning in life. Somethings are the same but I like to think about it as a relationship (it makes sense to me since God is our Father.) If you want to date someone who but won't talk to them, ask them out, or look at them you will lose faith in relationships really fast. On the other hand, if you put yourself out a little bit ask her out, buy her flowers, buy her chocolates every now and then your chance of building a relationship increases dramatically. The same true after you get married you must maintain the relationship or else you will seek approval elsewhere.
To believe in God doesn't mean you have to disregard science it just means that you need to listen to his opinions (commandments) as you make decisions. If you don't do this with your girlfriend she will most likely leave you. The same is true with God.
Great video! I really enjoyed the things that were said. GREAT GUEST!
This is an excellent tutorial on how to maintain a belief but a very problematic way to find truth.
Love this. You all are great examples. 💗💗💗💗💗💗
Why is the BOM more important than than D&C, which actually contains the doctrines of the church and is not even a translation of anything written by men, but God actually speaking to us in modern times?
What is the significance of the fishbowl?
Ive read the book of mormon with an open mind multiple times ive prayed about it.. I was born and raised in the lds church but I just don't feel about it the same way you guys do. I do believe in god and jesus christ and the bible but the book of mormon and lds religion not so much
I like this episode. I liked what Mimi said about using resources like Fairmormon to get another side. Also the Interpreter Foundation is great as well. And Book of Mormon Central. I did all the anti stuff when I was investigating. But best of all I found Jesus Christ here and RELATIONSHIP with God. Most important of all!.
Howdy, I'm Elder Cunningham...literally.
Yeah. The musical always makes me feel a bit weird because I literally was Elder Cunningham.
On the plus side, if times ever get really tough, I could sell an authentic Elder Cunningham name tag on ebay.
Edit: I realized that some people may not know we're talking about the Book of Mormon Musical that's on Broadway.
Why does it seem like almost all videos I see of Mormons on UA-cam is about them trying to justify their beliefs and prove that they're not crazy for believing them? I feel like when they study to become a missionary they learn all the "correct responses" to the flaws that the people they will encounter will point out about their religion. There's a reason why they feel this need to have a "defense" to every area of their beliefs.
In my opinion, the reason is lack of opportunity to voice our beliefs.
Book of Mormon the musical was written by people who weren't associated with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Then, the people starring in it, were also not members!
It's true that that musical spread out our religion, but it had so many things wrong about Christ's Gospel and His Doctrine that people had to research to find any answers as to what we truly believe.
Not to mention, about 90% of the online conversation is dominated by people who are attacking the church and it's members. And I know that because I grew up with it.
I'm sorry that it seems sketchy, that's just what it is and how it seems. But I know the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is true. And if you want to know whether it's true or false, you can know for yourself. You don't have to listen to anybody to find out.
Just ask God.
@@ScottBub I have thought about that. And I realized that God communicates to me through the Holy Ghost, that which I received on the day of my baptism.
I know this is true because of the following experience.
When I was in middle school, around 14, I luckily lived close enough to walk. So, I walked to school every day. But, one day, as I was walking I noticed that one house on the street didn't have their garbage cans out on the road. (The garbage man was coming within the hour.)
I immediately had a thought, "You should move those garbage cans to the road."
I had originally thought that this was just a random thought, but I had recently read in Moroni 7:16 that, "Every thing which inviteth to do good... is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ;"
So, I went and moved the garbage cans. And moved them back on my walk home from school.
I later found out that the woman living there had her husband taken to the hospital the night before and was in so much distraught that taking out the garbage cans was too much pain for her to bear.
I know for a fact that this incident was not a coincidence. Because the feeling in my heart that I felt when I found out was too strong for it to be in my imagination.
The only answer is that God exists, and if we follow Him, we can be tools in His hands to help the rest of His children when they're in need.
And I believe that's the reason why faith is so important.
@@ScottBub In regards to somebody who has had brain damage, I've never heard of any situation where they became incapable of hearing God.
Do you think you could inform me?
@@mats460 I don't think your last point is a good argument. I don't believe simply asking God if a religion is true or not is the way to knowing. That is very vague to tell someone to ask God in order to find out. Once I ask, then how do I know? Will He talk to me? Will he make me "feel good" inside when I am thinking about it which will be the 'yes' I was awaiting?
Faith is a lot deeper than emotions. We don't have our faith or practice our religion for the emotions we experience through worship. If I do a good deed I will 'feel good'. Let's define a good deed as an act of charity that a certain religion teaches. I would argue many religions teach people to do the same 'good deed'. So is each person able to conclude, based off the reasoning of 'know for yourself', that their religion is the true religion?
@@Zack-kk5xr I don't think I ever made an argument??.. If I came off that way, I apologize. I just wanted to answer your question.
I don't think we'll agree on the fact that asking God is vague. However, that question of, "How will I know" is reasonable, and is the first question that SHOULD be asked.
It's more than just a feeling. It always has been. I'm sorry that I can't tell you specifics, but that's the truth.
God has spoken to me numerous times and it's undeniable. But in order to receive an answer, you need to have faith.
I agree that faith is a lot deeper than emotions. Faith is knowing that everything will be okay. That everything will work out.
Faith is trusting that God knows you, hears you, and will help you if you ask for Him.
You don't need to prove to me that faith is more than just emotions. I think we both know that's it's true.
There is only one you🧡💚💙💛❤💜
Thank you for this video! I just took out my endowments and have been feeling really afraid and confused. Just because the endowment ceremony is EXTREMELY different than anything else I have participated in previously in the church and because of that it has kind of made me question a lot of things and rethink my whole life/church. But I keep thinking that I have received blessings, answers to my prayers, and a number of spiritual experiences that all contribute to my testimony. So like I know the church is true, i just found the endowment confusing, and overwhelming. And like not a soul can really deny the spiritual presence found in the temple because it is so apparent. Like the church is true I'm just trying to mentally process the ordinance, which I have a hard time understanding but thank you so much for saying that its literally my choice to decide if I want to believe or if I don't. Because it made me realize that i do. So i guess i will just press forward with faith. I may not understand everything but I know that faith is where it all starts.
I'm glad you're still here wrestling alongside us, Jessica!!
I had a very similar reaction when I was endowed in the temple 34 years ago. It was confusing to me. Overwhelming. I didn't understand it. Others I knew had the opposite reaction, so I knew it was just something about my mind and how I processed what was happening. Fast forward to now and I love the endowment ceremony at this point. I just kept going and praying. I was led to people (or they to me) in the temple who taught me deeper things about that I thought were amazing. It really was all centered around Jesus Christ. It's wonderful.
Just keep going and praying. You'll learn more as you go.
Prepared to Obtain Every Needful Thing By David A. Bednar is a good talk to study to learn more about the endowment. As you study the scriptures you will see how much the scriptures talk about the truths found in the endowment.
VIdeo lacked a lot of compassion.
Hey, long time fan here. I’m curious about how scripted these episodes are. Do you have an actual script or just a vague talking point?
Also, there were a few moments in this when you guys expressed a misunderstanding of how belief works. Belief is not a choice.
On my episode we had an outline. I was super nervous, so I spent a lot of time ahead of time thinking of different stories and stuff I could share. But they weren't written down, and I didn't know when I'd say them until we were in the middle of the conversation.
I certainly can't speak for everyone's experience, but for me belief is definitely a conscious choice I make.
I don't think we decide what thoughts we get, or what conclusions are brain come to, but we aren't victims of those. We have agency to choose what we want to believe.
Christopher D. Cunningham - nah, I don’t think that’s right. Belief is based on something more than simple want.
To demonstrate - Pick a god that you don’t believe in and just choose to believe in it. You can’t do it.
@@matthelion There is a difference between belief in something (God,Gospel, BOM, etc.) in spite of some reservations or unanswered questions, and a belief in something that contradicts known ideas, and answered questions.
In regards to the restoration of the Gospel and the Book of Mormon, there is ‘by design’ not enough evidence to prove its’ validity without question, but is enough evidence that its’ potential validity cannot be ignored. In this space between all proof, and no evidence, we are granted an opportunity where belief and faith can perfectly flourish and thrive.
“Argument does not create conviction, but the lack of it destroys belief.” - C.S. Lewis
I believe in the another testament of Jesus Christ because it bless all his children who believe on it
5 Pray always, that you may come off conqueror; yea, that you may conquer Satan, and that you may escape the hands of the servants of Satan that do uphold his work.
6 Behold, they have sought to destroy you; yea, even the man in whom you have trusted has sought to destroy you. - Doctrine and Covenants 10: 5-6
I am also from San Antonio, Texas. Represent!
Contrary to what the video claims, I found that much of the supposed "anti-Mormon" critical material that I read turned out to be much more truthful than the apologetics which I found to be full of logical fallacies and intellectual dishonesty.
@cindybin2001 Actually, it's the extremely compelling and damning evidence that shows that the church isn't true. Evidence like the fact that according to LDS and non-LDS Egyptologists, the Egyptian papyri that Joseph used to translate the Book of Abraham has nothing to do with Abraham. Evidence like the fact that indigenous Americans do not have DNA that would suggest any sort of old world migration contemporary to the Book of Mormon time-frame. And this is just the tip of the iceberg.
@cindybin2001 I don't know if you're being facetious or not, but don't take my word for it. Study for yourself. Read the essays on lds.org and follow the references. Read critical and apologetic material to get as many viewpoints as possible. For me, I felt that my eternal salvation was at stake so I was super careful with all information and tried to be as honest and objective as possible. In any case, best of luck to you on your journey.
@cindybin2001 Thanks for keeping a smile.
@@Jupiter_Crash What "nonsense" are you referring to? Dan's nonsense?
@@tyndale25 I could cite several examples to strengthen my claim if you would like.
Just CHOOSE to believe, no reason to doubt at all! /s Sounds like something a cult would say doesn’t it.
@@calebsandorf "That doubt which feeds and grows upon itself, and, with stubborn indolence, breeds more doubt, is evil… Stagnant doubt does not lead to knowing the reality of the Savior, Jesus Christ; it does not lead to really knowing that we have a kind, loving Heavenly Father. We can come to know the truthfulness of this latter-day work, but it requires that we choose faith, not doubt, and that we go to the right sources for our answers" - Renlund 2018... So yeah, doubting is good...???
Sorry, I’m not saying we should try to doubt everything, I just meant that it’s normal to have doubts and when we do have doubts, if we can overcome them then it can help to strengthen our testimonies.
Faith is hard BUT VITAL. Jumping out of an airplane, testing out a new medicine, eating a new diet; you will not see the outcome until you try it out, and then patiently looking for the results.
AcePilot737 every one of these things I’d like scientists to examine carefully. Not just jump into without good reason.
No it doesn’t!
Yeah Lord I believe, help mine unbelief.
That part about being able to choose what you believe is not completely true. You can certainly argue your way into almost any belief, but you simply can't truly believe something first and then say why later.
Your struggle with Mormonism is the same struggle that all religious people go through.
Why do I have to have faith in a god before I can know if that god is even real? Can you think of any other truth claim that you have to first believe in order to find out whether it’s true?
Here's a question for you all: what was the first vision? Joseph Smith himself makes multiple different versions about it, see for yourself: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Vision . One may argue that the main point is still made, but from a historical point of view it is hardly reliable, especially given that it is a supernatural event, which by definition are the least probable things to occur. I suggest watching this channel for an in-depth view of Mormon history, and decide for yourself is the church is true: ua-cam.com/video/Qy3avtd-PZM/v-deo.html . Please don't shrug it off simply because the person is an ex-mormon: they represent another side of the story. If you only look at one side and let other people sugarcoat the opposing view, how will you ever find out the truth?
The truth! The whole truth and nothing but the truth
Here's a theory as to why there are multiple different accounts. Joseph Smith recounted the story several times, at several different points of his life. Therefore, his perspective likely was not kept constant. Also, people tend to remember different details at different times. Had it been a lie, it would likely be itentical every time he recounted it.
❤🧡💛💚💙💜❤
Love this, so much!
I really connected with the notion of being blessed with the capability of believing.
It sucks, trying to explain to people how I believe in a religion so much, even though I have had a hard time with living the standards.
They just can't wrap their minds around the fact that the church can be true, even though I struggled with this, or that.
I believe, because I do.
I can't deny certain experiences I've had, and even though I might have been a horrible example in the past... that doesn't mean I question(ed) the validity of my faith, or the gospel.
To be fair, if (Huge Hypothetical IF) the church weren't true... I dunno.. it's almost an impossible Hypothetical!
That's like saying "If God weren't real" or "if God didn't answer prayers.." . It feels almost blasphemous to even entertain the notion. BUT,, for the sake of argument for those who need that WHAT IF answer...
IF the church weren't true, I have no doubts whatsoever that Heavenly Father would still be like "Wow, Sherry. You had amazing faith, and did your best with what you had. I love you. " And I still wouldn't go to hell.
I'm so eternally grateful that the church IS true, and for the experiences I've had, because... I'm a hot mess without Him.
I'm so glad I was given my funky brain that makes everything harder.
Because of my funky brain, I have compassion; and maybe I can help others who have funky brains to find the peace, and love, and crazy-hard-to-kill kind of faith that I have.
I love this channel so much!!
On a side note, blistex and carmex are bad for your lips. They have an ingredient in them that causes your lips to get all dry and crap, once you stop using it.
Power through it, and use a non medicated beeswax lip balm!
I love this comment! Thank you for sharing, Sherry!!!
Ugh - this is hard. As someone who has left, i respect people who have stayed. i share DNA with quite a few of them. i sometimes wonder what the difference is between faith and a persistent delusion. People have lost faith in all kinds of things. They've lost faith in Vladimir Putin, in communism, in the democratic party, in Donald Trump, in conservative principles, in Warren Jeffs, in Pope Francis, and everything in between.
Which ones is it good to lose faith in? The wrong ones of course. Which ones are the ones it's good to keep your faith in? The good ones of course. And those are questions it's utterly critical to come to a consensus on before saying anything about the nature of keeping faith, or having doubts. And as critical as that is, it's even more impossible.
You people all take a lot of flak for this channel. i just want to say that i am sad that so many people take their frustration and anger and pain and confusion out on you. It changes nothing, and poisons everything - and is as sad as it is understandable (at least for me).
i hope you can forgive all the people who foist anti literature on you. i think they do it only because something that has been fused into them from a million different places from the day they were born has been ripped out of their souls. And what do you do then? When it can never be the same even as it was, while everyone else tells you that it must be. When the only way to not be wrong in the eyes of the people who made up the vast majority of your world is to make them wrong? Lots of people would call me a moral relativist - but really, i'm just not a huge fan of zero sum games. The polarity they create is far worse than the improvements the proponents of both sides cite as reasons for their ultimate importance.
May God have mercy on us all. Because i am not sure there is any other answer to all this.
@@ScottBub Thank-you. Just to clarify - to the extent that your comment was even directed at me. i am not sure i claim to know what truth is when it comes to religion - or the lack thereof. i thought i did once. But that was shattered, and i don't really claim to now. i know that being kind and respectful and compassionate and giving are good. Beyond that, i draw a blank. i sometimes think our (or at least my) inability to know anything beyond that is an indication that just about everything else doesn't matter all that much.
It hurts to have someone call a gut-wrenching decision a lack of faith - that holds an assumption that maintaining faith is the obviously right thing to do. But i am sure the people who label it as such have been hurt just as badly themselves.
Once i get past any anger and indignation, it's all just profoundly sad. i hope that God - whatever God ends up being - can fix things up so they are OK again. And OK for everyone - not just for me.
@@ScottBub Thank-you very much. And believe me, i am no apologist for any of the doctrines of this church. i've left, and am not coming back.
And i don't know all the reasons why the world is as it is. i have no good explanation for suffering, or unfairness, or anything. And the absolute last thing i want to be is in charge with a spouse of some world. i can't for the life of me see what the draw in that one is.
i hope in God - but it's just hope. That said, what i hope in, i get to define. Personally, i do think there is something. i doubt it is a 70 year old white male with a beard. i think that everyone will make it in the end. That the only hell is the one people create for themselves - and that when the person has figured out that is not a good idea, it will end for them.
One thing that has brought me peace is listening to this near death experience by Amy Call - you can find it on UA-cam. Who knows - but that is the kind of things that makes sense to me. Might be worth checking out.
Though again, i don't claim to know. i hope - but that hope is just my own. i hope you find some peace.
Faith is only Faith if it's in Jesus Christ. The other things you were talking about has to do with a temporal confidence.
I left and came back! But even know I don’t know at all! I don’t. And for me it’s about what brings me joy and I think sometimes this church doesn’t provide the joy or answers that some people need and that’s okay. All we can do is love and look out for each other. God bless you! :)
@@jeremiahtolman5213 You are very kind. Wishing you all the best!
tldr; self-indoctrination
I stumbled upon this video by accident and while not Mormon (because it's fairly clear in my opinion that the it's BS) I do have a level of respect for the fact you keep all these comments from people that disagree with you up, there are unfortunately a lot of people that would rather hide the criticisms of their ideas.
Fair Mormon is like wikipedia. It's rubbish. There are blank answers all over the place ie no answers.
My faith was shaken because reality suffered from what the spiritual “burning in my bosom” had told me was going to happen if I kept the commandments.
I then took a break from the church and researched what I had previously referred to as “anti-Mormon” with a genuine curiosity.
A month or two later I recognized the church isn’t true. So I left.
I am an atheist now.
PS, the reason that people use “anti-Mormon” church history is because ridiculous claims were made by the early history of the church based on nothing. Today ridiculous claims are made by the current church leaders based on the early history of the church.
Gordon B Hinckley said that the Gospel works or fails based on the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon. So, all I really looked into was truthfulness of the Book of Mormon.
Long story short, Joseph Smith made up a fake book of scripture and it’s been proven historically false and implausible in many categories.
So you altered your entire lifestyle, and changed your entire enteral perspective, based on what men say about a book rather than actually looking at what the book says about itself?? Sounds like such a huge decision to be making all on the whims of what some antagonistic, propaganda driven men, believe! Looks like you were to focused on the shallow details to understand the purpose. I think there is a saying about that, something along the lines of not being able to see the forest for the trees.
You do not need other men to tell you the Book of Mormon is false. The book disproves itself. And JUST believing, is one of the most harmful things you could ever preach. People kill themselves based off of just believing. Don’t believe me? Check out heavens gate or any of the other cults who their leaders preach to just believe! The end is near! I have the truth! Believe me! I will not. Never again. And I don’t have to because I stoped just believing the Mormon church and found the truth. I hope that one day maybe, just maybe, like your misleading title, entertain the fact that what you are following actually isn’t true. Because what then, you never even answered it. If God told you the church wasn’t true and wanted to show you his true essence and reality, don’t you think you would be sad you missed it because you were too busy just believing something else.
Ok so is the middle dude gay? Not a bad thing just curious
Good job guys.
The way the talk about "anti-mormons" is really insensitive. They're not "antis" they are people. Please accept that with the information they have been given they have decided that it is unreasonable to continue believing. Also know that they have been where you are. They likely had a testimony the burned as bright as yours. But you have not been where they are. See them as people with different life experiences than you. They're not "anti-mormons". They're just people trying their best.
I understand what you're getting at, but at the same time, it's just a term to describe what they are. A 'mormon' is just a person who believes in the church, and an 'antimormon' is just someone who doesn't believe in it and wants to tell why. It's not inherently disrespectful
@@mintbrownieangelfish-6114 it is disrespectful when all they amount them to us hating the church
@@Asarrrrrr but, by definition, antimormons don't like the church. Yeah they're people, and they have their reasons for not liking/agreeing with it, but that's the main thing these guys are trying to address.
@@mintbrownieangelfish-6114 It's annoying when they conflate them to hating the church is all they are and don't bother to maybe understand their pov in the first place. Bc they're "anti's" their opinions are automatically invalid and evil. It's all one sided
When trying to make sense of anti-mormon literature you have to take Occam's razor in consideration. You can honestly just say "because God wills it so" to any controversial thing that makes the mormon church false. Or you can just accept the FACT that, yes, Joseph DID try to translate the Kinderhook plates HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA. To this day I still laugh out loud when i remember the kinderhook plates. Everything else was funny, too, but this one's just tickles me at the right spot.
#1 rule of the mormon church is to stay loyal. If you're not loyal you've been deceived by the devil and you're an apostate. Couldn't even listen to a full 4 minutes. Heavy gaslighting (calling anything that doesn't 100% agree with the mormon church "negative" or "anti"). Doubt there was any real thought put into whatever advice was provided.
I hope I didn't call anyone who doesn't 100% agree with the church Anti. I certainly don't believe that.
But if you're going around accusing us of gaslighting, and saying that we don't think about what we say, then maybe in your case you are anti. I don't know. Maybe.
Besides, the first four minutes are mostly about lip balm.
after the discussion of hey-o and lip balm
1:57 accosted by negative things
2:35 negative - some people might not faith in the church yet
2:50 some will send a lot of anit mormon stuff to those investigating
2:57 those sources are very one sided and don't use actual facts "as we believe them"
3:03 misinterpretations and miscommunications
3:12 something a lot of you guys are struggling with
3:25 anti
3:30 your mission story
3:33 anti mormon
3:45 make it my business to read anti mormon material
3:48 what ever people are saying to try to tear down the church
To me all this was a clear slant towards anything that didn't agree with the mormon church is labeled anti or negative, something can be true without it being negative or anti. Blanket labeling like that is as bad as Trump calling news he doesn't like "fake". Labeling all non approved mormon chrurch source as one sided, anti or negative is gaslighting, you're stating that sources that aren't mormon church approved are automatically incorrect and we shouldn't listen to at all. It's unhealthy and showed me that no real discussion of the topic was going to happen. If all you're discussions are is how to stay loyal to the church without addressing the real questions real people have it doesn't help, the faithful will stay faithful and those who are marginalized for "doubting" or doing anything the mormon church doesn't approve of will "leave".
@@davegolightly3754
Look, Dave, if you're not anti-Mormon we weren't talking about you. But if you want to say that pamphlets whose sole purpose is to oppose (anti) the beliefs of Latter-day Saints (Mormon) isn't anti-Mormon material, then I guess I have to wonder whose gaslighting who.
@@christopherd.cunningham2375
I never thought you were talking about me. I'm saying you can't have a real discussion about something if you discount it from the beginning. I tried to give your video a chance. I was a faithful attending member of the mormon church up until a couple years ago. Part of me still looks to see if I've missed something and I thought this video could provide a view I hadn't considered. The first few minutes of this video indicated it wasn't going to provide a new way of looking at things or some new information.
Just because a pamphlet presents a different view point doesn't mean it's sole intent is to oppose a belief or a religion. It's intent could be to introduce your mind to something new (there's no way a pamphlet can provide much more than introduction to anything). I can tell you the times I've grown the most as a person is when I've opened my mind and at times that has entailed listening and trying to understand something that doesn't agree 100% or at all.
@@christopherd.cunningham2375
And when it was put out there that someone who was struggling after hearing something anti was because they didn't have enough faith to me is absolute gaslighting. It was blaming the person who didn't have enough faith and lumping a lot of those who struggle as weak when it comes to faith. As one who has gone through this it is belittling, it is very judgemental. I am one of those who are sincerely seeking the truth, who have a large portion of their life dependent on the outcome. This video marginalizes a large population without a sincere attempt to understand what they're struggling with.
(edit: to clarify wording)
Ó guð jarðarinnar
I have this same feeling anti-Mormon material never shakes me! If you want to leave the church,,,,,,any excuse will do,,,,,so they leave for all these dumb reasons! Search search pray and move forward become stronger in the Gospel....
Can you guys give your fish a bigger tank with a filter? Respect all on earth
The Mormon church needs to stop saying they are Christians because there is only one God according to Christians and the Mormons believe that you can be an exalted God, which is contrary to the bible. So, there are many exalted Gods out there according to the Mormon church doctrine, people leave the church because they have been deceived, they have not been told the truth about God. 2 Cor 11:4 For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you may well put up with it. The Mormon church needs to tell the whole truth, they change GOD'S WORD in the bible, they are not upfront with Joseph's Polygamy, they used Freemason symbols in the temple ceremony, there are pagan symbols on the church Temples from Freemasonry. They believe their Books are authentic when they have never been proven historically or by archeologists. The list goes on.
OMG! What in the hell is this and who are these people?🤣🤣🤣🤣
Faith in the church? Ha! Have faith in Jesus that he's the head of church and not just a bunch of old men LOL