I was so surprised seeing thruster having no circuit connection. And having 1k of internal storage makes it really hard to feed specific amount of fuel.
I tried to tackle this same issue. Trial and error I would turn off the pumps when the ship's speed was over 150. No tanks between the pump and thruster worked best for me. My goal was 40% thruster fuel level, but it bounced a lot. The speed threshold for peak efficiency will vary from one ship to another by it's mass and number of thrusters.
That's one way to approach it, and which I did consider as well, but as you pointed out they differ based on thrust-weight ratio of the ships which is why I didn't use that approach for myself because I wanted to have a direct control of the flow instead of autothrottle/automatic speed control. Glad it worked on your end, and presumably more user friendly compared to just pure numbers. :) As for the blueprint I can see it in the studio comment but not when opening the video, so most likely autohide from yt? I'm not sure on these kinds of things...
That's a really awesome circuit build, great work! I should note that the equation for transforming between Q_input (intended flow) and Q_actual (real flow) depends not only on the number of engines, but also on the amount of fluid pipes between the fluid tank and the engines, as each one of them stores a small (but non-zero) amount of fluid. So, minimizing the number of pipes should reduce how much the fluid flow variates and bounces around. Please also note that, according to FFF#430, "output rate is now inversely proportional to the fullness ratio of the sink", so the actual equation may actually be non-linear, changing with both the flow rate of the input (your variable "x") and the fullness of the engine (inversely proportional to variable "y", the flow rate of the sink). I'm actually interested in how you calculated the linear equations themselves; if you could show it, it would be awesome.
I did consider that the pipe length might cause slight differences, but for now I just neglect their effect and tried to make the pipe as short as possible for the feed tanks, I'd read the FFF#430 later on. As for the calculation, I just log the fuel flow for each engine (and average them later on) for 1, 2, and 3 engines at several increments (used the time accelerate and decelerate to get into steady state and read the numbers afterward) and plot them, which is the equations you see at the latest addition in the description. I would like to just toss the raw numbers, charts, and screenshot of testbeds used out there but dunno where the good place to do so for now.
i think i just found one ,you control pump determine by ship speed, like if speed below 150 start a pump, but it swing the fluid a bit (30-50% in thruster for 6 engine+keep below 150 speed)
As I pointed out in other reply I'd prefer to make a 0-100% range direct flow control (well in the end it's 0-120 max range to save on combinators) as opposed to autothrottle system to be able to ignore the effect of mass and thrust in my input, and also since I don't know how to make circuit logic based on speed :) Then if I wanted it to be economical cruise I'd pick around 30-50% range but if I want a ship to come fast I just can go full reheat on the engines. Honestly it'll be easier if you just can connect a circuit directly to the engine to control it rather than adding extra feed tank for the control system.
It's technically just a pump for each fluid that's connected to a "feed tank" with boolean to control the pump (input number centralised with a constant combinator with a empirical function)
I would have paid more attention to my automation lessons in engi school if i ever knew it would help me control my factorio spaceship :/
Great work !
I was so surprised seeing thruster having no circuit connection. And having 1k of internal storage makes it really hard to feed specific amount of fuel.
exactly the problem I am facing. rocket kick way too hard initially
I tried to tackle this same issue. Trial and error I would turn off the pumps when the ship's speed was over 150. No tanks between the pump and thruster worked best for me. My goal was 40% thruster fuel level, but it bounced a lot. The speed threshold for peak efficiency will vary from one ship to another by it's mass and number of thrusters.
method reduces fuel cost of trips between the first few planets to about 7000 of each fuel & oxidizer
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my ship blueprint was posted but I don't see it here now
That's one way to approach it, and which I did consider as well, but as you pointed out they differ based on thrust-weight ratio of the ships which is why I didn't use that approach for myself because I wanted to have a direct control of the flow instead of autothrottle/automatic speed control. Glad it worked on your end, and presumably more user friendly compared to just pure numbers. :)
As for the blueprint I can see it in the studio comment but not when opening the video, so most likely autohide from yt? I'm not sure on these kinds of things...
That's a really awesome circuit build, great work!
I should note that the equation for transforming between Q_input (intended flow) and Q_actual (real flow) depends not only on the number of engines, but also on the amount of fluid pipes between the fluid tank and the engines, as each one of them stores a small (but non-zero) amount of fluid. So, minimizing the number of pipes should reduce how much the fluid flow variates and bounces around.
Please also note that, according to FFF#430, "output rate is now inversely proportional to the fullness ratio of the sink", so the actual equation may actually be non-linear, changing with both the flow rate of the input (your variable "x") and the fullness of the engine (inversely proportional to variable "y", the flow rate of the sink). I'm actually interested in how you calculated the linear equations themselves; if you could show it, it would be awesome.
I did consider that the pipe length might cause slight differences, but for now I just neglect their effect and tried to make the pipe as short as possible for the feed tanks, I'd read the FFF#430 later on.
As for the calculation, I just log the fuel flow for each engine (and average them later on) for 1, 2, and 3 engines at several increments (used the time accelerate and decelerate to get into steady state and read the numbers afterward) and plot them, which is the equations you see at the latest addition in the description.
I would like to just toss the raw numbers, charts, and screenshot of testbeds used out there but dunno where the good place to do so for now.
Nice build!
i think i just found one ,you control pump determine by ship speed, like if speed below 150 start a pump, but it swing the fluid a bit (30-50% in thruster for 6 engine+keep below 150 speed)
As I pointed out in other reply I'd prefer to make a 0-100% range direct flow control (well in the end it's 0-120 max range to save on combinators) as opposed to autothrottle system to be able to ignore the effect of mass and thrust in my input, and also since I don't know how to make circuit logic based on speed :)
Then if I wanted it to be economical cruise I'd pick around 30-50% range but if I want a ship to come fast I just can go full reheat on the engines. Honestly it'll be easier if you just can connect a circuit directly to the engine to control it rather than adding extra feed tank for the control system.
make it a blueprint!!
It's technically just a pump for each fluid that's connected to a "feed tank" with boolean to control the pump (input number centralised with a constant combinator with a empirical function)