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Peter
Приєднався 2 бер 2013
Lazy...
Factorio Space Age - Throttling for Controlled Thrust (Read Description)
Having a thruster in Factorio Space Age with its own performance chart, I was quite sad to have found out there’s no direct method to throttle the system to get the desired fuel flow, and the thruster can’t be linked with a wire to directly read its content.
Hence I tried to use storage tanks as a fuel control mechanism linked with pump (and decider combinator to read the tank) where the desired fuel flow (Q) is set in a constant combinator (paired with a set of calculation to convert the number), where the correlation between direct Q input vs Q actual is approximately:
y [Q] = 1.26x [Q_in] + 23.125 || [Check new equations below]
but to limit the amount of combinators used the equation in factorio, the numbers that is fed into the circuit system [Q_in] becomes:
Q_in = (Q-23)*4/5
With this equation, the desired fuel flow should be approximately where you’d want it to be with slight deviation after the fuel flow reaches steady state where the range for best results seems to be 40-80 unit/s (needs further testing) for controlled thrust but still capable of delivering lower and higher flow value.
The value I’ve tested to far is not that much different between 1, 2, and 3 engines system, where a slight drop occurs (see new equations below), but my hypothesis should be capable to supply up to max pump capacity (1200 unit/s). The fuel doesn't distribute evenly across the engine where on odd engine amount will cause the center burner to have the highest fuel flow, followed by the left engine (-2 unit/s from center), and the lowest flow on the right engine (-2 unit/s from left side).
Several limitation I’ve found:
1. The lowest flow possible is limited by the pump work (how long the pump is active).
2. I don’t have a logger to fully average the testing value for curve data.
3. The pressure drop on distance is ignored (for longer pipes).
4. There’s no limitting the fuel reserve inside the thruster when it’s idling.
Please don’t mind the mess and piping I was too lazy to rearrange them after testing some configs.
Very rough data, Input [Q_in] vs Average Fuel Flow [Q]:
Q_in : 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, 60, 70, 80, 100
FF : 26.5, 33, 41, 47.5, 53.5, 60, 65.5, 70.5, 77.5, 83.5, 94, 105, 115, 120
Other factors might cause variation in the curve, where one of my ship in the current playthrough has a different curve, howewer mass of the ship doesn't cause any change in the fuel flow to the engine.
Anything else interesting or could be improved just leave a note somewhere. No blueprints for now, maybe later when it's a bit more fleshed out.
[Updated equation for N = 1-3 taken from Q input range 20-90]
y = 1.1816x + 26.07 (n Engine = 1)
y = 1.1309x + 24.262 (n Engine = 2)
y = 1.0687x + 23.751 (n Engine = 3)
y = 1.0144x + 23.607 (n Engine = 4) [Calculated; Tested]
(I have no clue how to correlate them to n.Engine especially in Factorio, maybe someone should do a better system than just regressing data especially with factorio circuits.)
Hence I tried to use storage tanks as a fuel control mechanism linked with pump (and decider combinator to read the tank) where the desired fuel flow (Q) is set in a constant combinator (paired with a set of calculation to convert the number), where the correlation between direct Q input vs Q actual is approximately:
y [Q] = 1.26x [Q_in] + 23.125 || [Check new equations below]
but to limit the amount of combinators used the equation in factorio, the numbers that is fed into the circuit system [Q_in] becomes:
Q_in = (Q-23)*4/5
With this equation, the desired fuel flow should be approximately where you’d want it to be with slight deviation after the fuel flow reaches steady state where the range for best results seems to be 40-80 unit/s (needs further testing) for controlled thrust but still capable of delivering lower and higher flow value.
The value I’ve tested to far is not that much different between 1, 2, and 3 engines system, where a slight drop occurs (see new equations below), but my hypothesis should be capable to supply up to max pump capacity (1200 unit/s). The fuel doesn't distribute evenly across the engine where on odd engine amount will cause the center burner to have the highest fuel flow, followed by the left engine (-2 unit/s from center), and the lowest flow on the right engine (-2 unit/s from left side).
Several limitation I’ve found:
1. The lowest flow possible is limited by the pump work (how long the pump is active).
2. I don’t have a logger to fully average the testing value for curve data.
3. The pressure drop on distance is ignored (for longer pipes).
4. There’s no limitting the fuel reserve inside the thruster when it’s idling.
Please don’t mind the mess and piping I was too lazy to rearrange them after testing some configs.
Very rough data, Input [Q_in] vs Average Fuel Flow [Q]:
Q_in : 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, 60, 70, 80, 100
FF : 26.5, 33, 41, 47.5, 53.5, 60, 65.5, 70.5, 77.5, 83.5, 94, 105, 115, 120
Other factors might cause variation in the curve, where one of my ship in the current playthrough has a different curve, howewer mass of the ship doesn't cause any change in the fuel flow to the engine.
Anything else interesting or could be improved just leave a note somewhere. No blueprints for now, maybe later when it's a bit more fleshed out.
[Updated equation for N = 1-3 taken from Q input range 20-90]
y = 1.1816x + 26.07 (n Engine = 1)
y = 1.1309x + 24.262 (n Engine = 2)
y = 1.0687x + 23.751 (n Engine = 3)
y = 1.0144x + 23.607 (n Engine = 4) [Calculated; Tested]
(I have no clue how to correlate them to n.Engine especially in Factorio, maybe someone should do a better system than just regressing data especially with factorio circuits.)
Переглядів: 4 834
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That's a really awesome circuit build, great work! I should note that the equation for transforming between Q_input (intended flow) and Q_actual (real flow) depends not only on the number of engines, but also on the amount of fluid pipes between the fluid tank and the engines, as each one of them stores a small (but non-zero) amount of fluid. So, minimizing the number of pipes should reduce how much the fluid flow variates and bounces around. Please also note that, according to FFF#430, "output rate is now inversely proportional to the fullness ratio of the sink", so the actual equation may actually be non-linear, changing with both the flow rate of the input (your variable "x") and the fullness of the engine (inversely proportional to variable "y", the flow rate of the sink). I'm actually interested in how you calculated the linear equations themselves; if you could show it, it would be awesome.
I did consider that the pipe length might cause slight differences, but for now I just neglect their effect and tried to make the pipe as short as possible for the feed tanks, I'd read the FFF#430 later on. As for the calculation, I just log the fuel flow for each engine (and average them later on) for 1, 2, and 3 engines at several increments (used the time accelerate and decelerate to get into steady state and read the numbers afterward) and plot them, which is the equations you see at the latest addition in the description. I would like to just toss the raw numbers, charts, and screenshot of testbeds used out there but dunno where the good place to do so for now.
I was so surprised seeing thruster having no circuit connection. And having 1k of internal storage makes it really hard to feed specific amount of fuel.
exactly the problem I am facing. rocket kick way too hard initially
I would have paid more attention to my automation lessons in engi school if i ever knew it would help me control my factorio spaceship :/ Great work !
i think i just found one ,you control pump determine by ship speed, like if speed below 150 start a pump, but it swing the fluid a bit (30-50% in thruster for 6 engine+keep below 150 speed)
As I pointed out in other reply I'd prefer to make a 0-100% range direct flow control (well in the end it's 0-120 max range to save on combinators) as opposed to autothrottle system to be able to ignore the effect of mass and thrust in my input, and also since I don't know how to make circuit logic based on speed :) Then if I wanted it to be economical cruise I'd pick around 30-50% range but if I want a ship to come fast I just can go full reheat on the engines. Honestly it'll be easier if you just can connect a circuit directly to the engine to control it rather than adding extra feed tank for the control system.
I tried to tackle this same issue. Trial and error I would turn off the pumps when the ship's speed was over 150. No tanks between the pump and thruster worked best for me. My goal was 40% thruster fuel level, but it bounced a lot. The speed threshold for peak efficiency will vary from one ship to another by it's mass and number of thrusters.
method reduces fuel cost of trips between the first few planets to about 7000 of each fuel & oxidizer
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
my ship blueprint was posted but I don't see it here now
That's one way to approach it, and which I did consider as well, but as you pointed out they differ based on thrust-weight ratio of the ships which is why I didn't use that approach for myself because I wanted to have a direct control of the flow instead of autothrottle/automatic speed control. Glad it worked on your end, and presumably more user friendly compared to just pure numbers. :) As for the blueprint I can see it in the studio comment but not when opening the video, so most likely autohide from yt? I'm not sure on these kinds of things...
make it a blueprint!!
It's technically just a pump for each fluid that's connected to a "feed tank" with boolean to control the pump (input number centralised with a constant combinator with a empirical function)
Nice build!
Saya suka waktu di sudut kanan atas tersebut
6 jam
Stupid
thou art welcometh
kiowa's taxiway robbery is the new trend
Noice
Monitor nya ingat perbaiki pak
lagi ga kambuh aman
mulai gila ini
sejak kapan engga gila
Moment” kita kehilangan hasrat tidur
Ini mah main arma bukan faktorio, tinggal tunggu dikasih zeus asset yg lebih mantap aj
Memang mensesat
abis tamat vanilla + qol la diajakin joze
@@PeterSLow gaskan
bad kids lol
congratulation, you'r a little ganker shit
👾
I got ur bara helm BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA
Stefen Moses I WILL NEVER FORGET ABOUT IT!!!
Lol
u need only to upgrade ur net connection and no more lag
This is the fastest I can get from the ISP
GG :D
ahhahahahahaha do a pvp compilation bro :D