Why I STOPPED practicing pure IFS therapy and what I do now instead
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- Опубліковано 21 вер 2023
- In this video, I'm sharing why I stopped practicing pure IFS therapy and what I do now instead. Discover the pivotal moment that led me to reevaluate my therapeutic approach and the alternative method I've embraced in its place. Join me as I candidly discuss the benefits and drawbacks of both IFS therapy and my current approach, shedding light on the transformative power of this shift in perspective. If you're curious about IFS therapy and self-discovery, this video offers valuable insights that could revolutionize your own therapeutic journey.
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// ABOUT ME:
Hi, I'm Lucille Aaron-Wayne. I help visionaries, luminaries and soul-seekers move from stuck to self-healing.
Are you thrilled by the potential of IFS? Love Jungian analysis? Curious about art therapy? You're in the right spot! I'm a:
- Level 3 Certified IFS Therapist
- professional mental health provider in the Netherlands with a private practice
- Jungian-Analyst-in-training
- passionate holder of a master's degree in creative arts therapies (you can call me an art therapist)
And I like to dance ;) I'm passionate about empowering you to pilot your self-healing journey.
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#ifs #ifstherapy #selfhealing #partswork #internalfamilysystems
© 2023 LUCILLE AARON-WAYNE. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
➡Download your free mp3 guide to doing IFS on yourself: seekdeeply.com/free
➡Check out my 9-month IFS mastermind, where you get my 1-on-1 support for doing solo IFS: seekdeeply.com/mastermind
➡Book an initial consultation for 1-on-1 therapy with me here: seekdeeply.com/therapy
I am experienced with both, but I did Jung first and at great depth with at least one world renowned analyst. I am learning IFS now. IFS is more powerful in terms of healing. But Jung’s work provides a deeper understanding of what is happening. When it talks about archetypes it is talking about fundamental emotions that people sometimes blend with to their detriment. Active imagination technique invented by Jung is an early clumsy variation on parts work, which IFS has taken farther and more effectively. Object relations theory in a somewhat Freudian approach to understanding parts. Fritz Perls chair work also is parts work but using dream figures or parts. When Jung talks about the sacred (or its opposite, the infernal) he is talking about profound emotional experiences, which frankly are ordinary if we allow them to happen. Sadly, we sometimes must go through the unpleasant ones first (deal with our wounds) u til we get to the deep inner ones of self acceptance. (Note the word Self,) the experience of the Self May feel like a God like religious experience, but in the end it is just self acceptance as an ordinary person, living mostly in the here and now. And now guess what? We know we are not exactly like others, of course, but we are variations of fundamental humans. That is, we are individuals and rarely are seized by archetypes (that is, blend with a ‘part’) or if we do so it is consciously because it is ‘part’ of who we are. Some parts are to be feared and kept from unsafe expression (but explored with curiosity in safe moments) others to be enjoyed and explored as well. Jung himself suffered a deep narcissistic wound after his breakup with Freud and was overwhelmed by his unconscious (his parts) and spent years on them in writings and art work. In public life he avoided the effects of blending, but the deep blends of inner pain were there. These had a deeper origin in his own childhood. The disappointment and rejection by Freud activated much from his early childhood. To his credit he kept his outer daily life together while his inner life utterly degenerated. But even profound grief and pain will gradually ease if yiu weep long enough and have one or a few compassionate friends. Jung’s wife was not particularly understanding. She was a good woman but did not go deep enough to meet his deeper emotional needs. Jung did have a regular girl friend too (she may or may not have been a lover) who fulfilled thar role, both as good person and as “soul guide”. So here today I share some of my own deep knowledge, based on both experience, education, analysis, and healing. I hope it is of some use to someone. I have learned these things because I had to. But I applaud IFS. Most folks simply want healing. Jung certainly did for himself and found it…slowly. I think Jung could have speeded his personal healing up using IFS methods, but, bring Jung, he still would be Jungian, and would talk about God, the gods, and the archetypes.
Thank you for this, beautiful and captures some of my thoughts more eloquently than I've thought them
What were your worst bits? Fir me it’s narcissism and not achieving. Not being a success or having achieved what I wanted to. I couldn’t handle it. Burnt anger. Madness anger. I was how I was raised I guess. To be an achiever and others who didn’t achieve weren’t as good.
What a GOAT comment
@@TheFalzox what does goat mean?
@@TheFalzox you should read the entire posting. I’ve been working on this for 60 years and I have a PhD in the field. Best Wishes
No one teacher knows everything in this world and if that was the case, all knowledge seekers should be out of things to do. Key is to learn from different people and integrate different ways of healing to what we personally find the best. I was trying to heal for 10 years and only when I started using IFS I saw the light. It was truly life saving to me and many others and helped me go deeper.
I am just now starting I.F.S. It's the most helpful tool I've ever experienced. With saying that, I've been in therapy for 26 years on and off. Before starting with my current IFS therapist, i had healed a lot of my trauma. My flashbacks were still triggered. I lived in constant fight or flight. Diagnosed with Generalized Anxiety Disorder and CPTSD and Depression. Since I've been with my therapist, my flashbacks don't cause panic or anxiety. Depression and anxiety are at manageable levels. Every time i meet a new part and help it, I feel joy. I.F.S. is working for me but other methods have been taught before.
IFS is just one tool. If a carpenter tries to build a house with only one tool, the project will suffer.
This has to be one of the most powerful comments I have ever read!!!! Thank you for this!!!!
Richard Schwartz, the creator of IFS, is a Jungian and a family systems therapist. As someone who went to a presentation of his as he was putting together the IFS model, I can see are using these two together would be very appropriate and helpful to clients.
I didn't agree with your findings because IFS is the only therapy I know of that addresses the foundation, namely the child traumas.
But having read your comments, I think I now understand what you mean (but I could be wrong, of course). It's about the situation after the healing. How do you live your life from Self? How do you connect with the greater SELF? What is your core? To me, it sounds more like a spiritual question and not so much a psychotherapeutic question.
I love this. IFS has been for about five years, and continues, to be a huge part of my recovery, healing, and mid-life transformation. I practice some on my own and some with my therapist, but my therapist and I simple talk sometimes. This video is validating the just talking aspect for me, as well as pointing to a Jungian approach. I've long heard of Jung, but never read his work or overtly experienced his method in therapy. I'm definitely more curious now. Many thanks for the post!!!
You're welcome! Yes, the "just talking" aspect can be the deepest-reaching change ... CAN being the operative word, as it depends on what your therapist is doing with it 😃 and if you're experiencing your therapy as transformative, that's a great sign!
Totally agree. . IFS wasn’t helpful for my cptsd. Did it for 5 years. I’ve found other means that have been more therapeutic- ketamines for instance.
yes!! Anytime I find myself thinking inflexible thoughts like "this is the only tool you ever need" or "this is the answer for everything" , I know there are some cognitive distortions and probably mistruths at play.
So true!
I appreciate your opinions about IFS. And as a therapist it is important to me to use and refer to various modalities based on where my client is and how I best can draw them into the process.
YES! The point is the healing, not the modality
I completely agree!
Thanks for this! Will you be doing more videos? Hope so 🙏🏼
I’m a UK therapist of 30 years and have been working with Jungian and IFS for some time now - I also use other frameworks when appropriate
do you know about this and what to do ?experienced with IFS and unattached burdens??
Thanks for sharing! This is spot on. I just started Jung Psychology opleiding while getting trained with IFS.
Love that! And you're in the Netherlands, too?
Hi Lucille, great videos you’re putting out! I wonder, will you ever offer an introductory or mid-level go at your own pace course on your unique approach to IFS/Jungian analysis/Art therapy? That would be amazing, especially for us folks who can’t afford the more intensive (and expensive) options that you offer due to life circumstance. Keep up the awesome shares 🌼
I so appreciate where this question comes from! I pour all of myself into the things I do, and right now my high-touch offerings are essential to give me resources to create these free offerings. But who knows what will come. Are you subscribed to my email list? That's a great way to find out about my new stuff seekdeeply.com/
I understand her answer and think she is worth what she charges. I have heard of a small but growing group of IFS practitioners that are choosing to keep their costs low. I work as a nurse, and do IFS as a second job, its my work of love, actually I love being a nurse, so maybe I am doubly blessed. I don't think people should take a second job to be able to do IFS. I keep my rates low so everyone can experience just how amazing it is.
@@ascensionsoulhow can I contact you?
I find this incredibly interesting. I've always thought that there was a missed opportunity to talk about dreams in IFS. But Jung has this in spades. And i was also wondering how the anima/us and archetypes fit into play when it comes to IFS.
All in all, there seems to be a lot more going on in Jung than in IFS, but the baseline for IFS is definitely there. It'll also be interesting to compare the Self in both modalities.
I came to Jung first and I agree with this video in general, and specifically with another comment here that IFS is essentially a specific, and more frameworked kind of Active Imagination.
For me Schwartz's work has more evidence of its value exactly because it has emerged as a _parralel discovery_ of Jung's findings.
However you could also see Jung's approaches as a means to open up less accessible "trail heads" as well, just as I did today, starting with dream figures.
The value of Jung is that he allows and maps out an additional journey to the soul, spirit, godhead etc, which is not dependent on the mental process of the client, which is possibly one of the key weaknesses of IFS, since one must find some humility in order to heal deeply, and being always a known and needed part of the healing process rather defeats the ego deflation, and ritualised access, necessary to produce access to the client for healing purposes, from completely outside of their own conscious mechanisms.
I think these two systems are massively complimentary precisely because one empowers the individual totally (IFS), and the other allows the individual to acknowledge, accept, understand, _and happily utilise_ the opposite fact of lack of power to change in the face of an overwhelmingly potent, but subtly hidden system.
Beautiful! And solo IFS empowers the individual even more ✊
I wonder this is why Schwartz and others have got quite into plant medicine, psilocybin specifically, to access the unconscious and more powerful forces beyond the ego?
Do you know anything about Loch Kelly's integration of Tibetan Buddhist practices of effortless mindfulness along with IFS? This seems one major dimension which is not so well developed in IFS alone. Here's a good video with Loch and Richard talking together.
therapy is hit or miss, ive been through many therapists and I still have the same issues although my relationship to it has changed and I have more compassion with myself
I'm curious: what are these issues that haven't changed?
@@edheldude c PTSD
@@Daneiladams555 I had it too. Have you not just found ways to heal it? For me it took years of meditation, IFS therapy, and holotropic breathwork. Now I help others heal and make a good living.
@@edheldude I’m working on it
Meditation, awareness of breath
It will heal or not , I can’t hold my breath, but I will do the work
@@Daneiladams555 Good luck on that journey. It took me years of grueling inner work. Blood, sweat, and tears. 🫡🙏
Hi lucille,
I enjoyed your videl, but was left wanting to know your opinion of what exactly it is that the jungian approach adds to ifs. It seems to offer a greater explanatory container, but that is probably not the element that will lead to deeper healing.
A follow up video would be good 😅
Hi Brad. Great question. Stay tuned!
I appreciate both IFS and Jungian psychology, and I understand the mythical connection that you crave and get with Jungian analysis, but I don't think the house metaphor is appropriate. I recently started training with IFS and I am amazed just how quick it is in helping people see and work with their inner worlds in a way that I have never seen before.
Excellent video and like you see the limitations of purely using IFS - I personally have found processing healing (Prof Gary Flint) modality plus IFS has both transformed and healed the exiled parts.
That's wonderful!
Did you ever do the unattached burden work ? Removing the entities that are not parts of the system? If not this is key on why things weren't working
Absolutely. I recommend Bob Falconer's book if anyone is interested in learning more about UBs
Love this, I've been super interested in Jung for a long time but have never taken the next step to how to utilize Jungian approaches in therapy. Would you recommend any resources on how to do that?
Great question. A good overview of the Jungian approach is Murray Stein's book Jung's Map of the Soul
my trainer uses IFS with Hakomi, Sensorimotor, Somatic experiencing, with bits of EMDR. Whats your view on that approach?
It sounds powerful. Most importantly, how do YOU feel it's going?
I agree! I am focusing on IFS, Jungian psychology and ecotherapy and find that they support and compliment each other well.
i really need help after a horrible bad trip and got the most extreme symptoms and don't know what to do
Seek a therapist with a degree in clinical psychology.
I have a lot of parts showing up around this video. The one I’ll name is the fact that Dick and others acknowledge in various books the similarities of IFS to other modalities/spiritual traditions so what you’re saying isn’t new. I find IFS works well with Advaita between the concepts of Atman and Brahman as oppose to Self and SELF. These ideas can help lead us to the same outcome just using different ideas.
Interesting! The concepts of Self in IFS and the Jungian approach - and surely many others - vary and converge in nuanced ways
What about somatic modalities like EMDR and somatic experiencing?? So maybe IFS does not address the the original trauma?
IFS does heal the original trauma, that's the main aim. I'm a certified Level 3 trained IFS practitioner and I do not experience the limitations of IFS that Lucille describes, nor do my clients. It is lovely that she has found additional tools to help her refine her practice and help her clients. Each system is different and we all have our own path.
IFS is definitely designed to address the original trauma! It's once trauma is healed that IFS reaches its limits. When we get to the realm of thriving, of actualizing, of becoming who we're meant to be - IFS doesn't have much to say here ... and that's not its purpose. This is when a more robust approach like the Jungian model is a huge help. Of course, both trauma healing and individuation can happen at the same time, which is why I combine the two
Your metaphors are interesting, but don’t help me to understand what you’re talking about. It’s abstract. Next time you might try an example.
Thank you for this video, it's extremely helpful!
I started studying Jung out of interest a few years ago. With continuing my self-growth journey, I came across IFS but didn't think much of it. But it kept popping up every here and there so now I decided to learn a bit about it. After a short intro video just minutes ago, I noticed the overlap in the parts with Jungian model of the psyche. By the sound of it IFS is an excellent tool and I will definitely study it and apply it.
I think it works better to combine things as well!!!!
Good video with good reasoning. She is spot on re: IFS. It's a great tool... but it is a tool. When the house is built upon sand, IFS merely addresses cosmetic concerns on a house with a crumbling foundation. The foundation must be addressed or IFS simply becomes a process of continuously running around applying band aids, never really addressing the REAL reason for the problem. Biblically based Spiritual counseling in combination with IFS works well for long term positive results.
Yes, very well said!
Wow. People in the comments are in desperate need of therapy. I am excited about your video!
I have thought of my mind as having parts, and that my internal dialog is not "me", since I was teen, probably from hearing snippets of Jung and also Chogyum Trungpa.
IFS introduced to me the idea of treating my parts like they are sentient, treating them with compassion, and talking to them. I was surpised that when I first addressed my parts, I got a response!
I can't pretend my mind doesn't have parts, after 50 years.
For me, the idea of protector parts, exiles etc. is the territory. To help my parts, I need therapy techniques, like psychoanalysis and CBT-like practices. What you say makes perfect sense to me!
So then, what is an example of a specific concrete problem that Jungian analysis is good at, that IFS is not??
Good question! Stay tuned for upcoming videos on this. Here's one example: How to bridge the incredible state of being in Self with ordinary life. Many IFS clients struggle with a big gap between how they feel in IFS sessions (when in Self-energy) and how they are in regular life once this fades. I've developed ways to deal with this that stem from Jungian analysis, which welcomes and encourages us to show up as our regular selves (meaning there is not a big gap when we leave a session and go back to the mundane details of life).
@@healwithlucilleso how do you bridge the meaningful experiences with the mundanity of everyday life? I’ve had clients with such issues after undergoing psychedelic assisted therapy as well. Do you have any resources on this?
Thank you Lucille for your perspective! As a client, I was introduced to Jungian sandplay therapy along with Voice Dialogue (VD) developed by Hal and Sidra Stone (Jungian therapists). With VD there is the introduction of the Aware Ego (AE), which stands between the opposite parts. The parts do not talk to each other because they are usually at odds with each other. However, the AE is the means of softening the polarization and bringing forth more integration. I only know a little of IFS, but it sounds familiar to VD. I believe that in IFS, the AE is considered the Self. In terms of expanding our conscious awareness, I give tremendous value to parts work....yet, particularly when it comes to trauma, as a psychotherapist, I have found that the body also needs to be included. The parts include their own set of emotions and body sensations which can give the individual more ability to mindfully separate from the energies that the parts present.
Love this in-depth glimpse into the Jungian sandplay + VD combo. The AE sounds like a mixture of Self and what I call the Regular You, which is simply your awareness (what Jung calls the Ego)
IFS may be the whole solution for some people.
No one method is comprehensive. IFS doesn't give you a value system or deep spirituality. I find 12 step philosophy gives a good basis for spirituality, inventories and growth. I have a friend who uses the Course in Miracles. I have had deep transformations through ongoing Intuitive Painting sessions as well as in IFS.
💯 yes!