Wes, if I can maybe make a humble suggestion... If your camera just has a microphone "hole", perhaps you can glue a 3/16 thick rubber washer over/around it. That way, at least you'll be able to feel if you're putting your finger over it. Thanks for the always entertaining videos. -Dave
this is going to be a cliff hanger if you cant download when your on holiday we will all have to wait till you come back. I CANT WAIT THAT LONG. great job so far...
Ooh man, this is a nice one. My best guess; it's the differential. When you pulled that tractor, both wheels where lock, if the gears where lock one wheel would have turned backwards. But now you tell us that he also misses gears. Goodluck figuring, and have a nice trip.
Get some suspenders Tim or work overalls. I'm built like you and for years I fought ass crack and pulling up my pants all the time wearing a belt. The comfort of your pants staying were they are suppose to be is worth the old fashioned look.
Brake linings coming apart were a common problem on the 6000 series. I have heard of one being driven on the road that got slower an slower and when the driver stopped to see what the problem was it had started melting the paint on the trumpet housings.
hey wes is the crap in the bottom of the sump the pto clutch. it was on both of my 6400's. but that would not cause shifting problems. good luck. love the video
Inside the first casing on the front of the shuttle pack is a pump which holds the clutch packs together, when worn it scours the casing and you can lose pressure, this results in your clutch packs slipping and little black squares of facing coming off... If its just a directional problem, the solenoids on the bottom of the F/R pack should be the first port of call.
I think I like the other tractors you can open the top of the trans case to see everything. that one looks like a nightmare, but it's fascinating to see
A heated shop IS a plus! You have a good start on one close up the area your trying to heat and get away from heating with diesel fuel will help I prefer LP infrared heaters they are more cost effective and quieter and a LOT cleaner. AS A GOOD FREIND OF MINE SAYS "LITTLE BY LITTLE" WINS THE RACE
Put 2 of the wheel bolts in 2 holes apart and try turning the axle with a lever bar. you probably won't be able to turn the axle just by itself (by holding the flange) because of the bearing and diff gear drag. If the axles rotate in the same direction its a limited slip diff (or engaged diff lock) and if they rotate in different directions its an open diff with either 2 or 4 spider gears and 2 side gears. The backlash you can feel is backlash (or clearance) in the diff gears and side gears and axle splines and is perfectly normal. Can be up to 15* on some diffs. From what you are describing It doesn't sound like any diff or brake problem. Syncros can be checked by looking at the clearance between the back of the syncro ring and the face of the dog teeth as you pull it into gear slowly. This will also show broken syncro rings too. If it was consistant id say it was Syncros, but gears dissappearing id say either selector problems. (worn control linkages and loose levers broken detent springs bent selector forks or loos securing bolt or similar. I haven't had anything much to do with powershift but if they are sets of clutches like an auto Id look there for burned or damaged steels and discs or their selectors. It would have been nice if youd been able to see the problem before it was f@#ked with. It would have made the job easier. BTW have a nice holiday Wes.
You need a fiber optic inspection camera with as much stuff as you repair. Would let you look into the rear end and inspect it without taking it all the way apart. They're not all that expensive today, and using one makes looking into things a whole lot easier without total disassembly.
Wes, I have to agree with most others out there, been turning wrenches for over 40 years. Just what are those pieces coming our on your finger made of???
Wes you and Tim should set up a cuss jar and see who's fills up the fastest and in one week winner takes all one dollar per word. Just thought it would be funny.
Would this be a good application for an inexpensive inspection camera? You could actually send one up thru the hole to look at the differential gears ,just to sure something isn't jammed into the gears?
Wes, I'm with the guys that thinks it's a rear diff issue. Unless there is something about that tractor that I don't understand, the axles should be free wheeling and obviously they are not. I would really want to know why the axles aren't free wheeling before I would even think about tearing into the transmission/gearbox. Maybe there is an issue there too, but IMO you have an issue there.
Hi Wes as always we aren't seeing the whole picture here, that you are working on it. I'm with the others on a comment of why cant you turn the differential/axle, and it skiding in to the shop. With no wheels on if nothings locked one hub should turn forward and the other back. if it was me i'd put 2 studs in the hub at say 3 and 9 o clock position and try turning that axle with a large bar, to see if it moves or find out why it's locked. either it's locked in park somehow or you maybe got 2 problems from what we can and can't see in the video's.. I hate guessing problems online, so much we can't see, hear or feel that we need to is missing that would help a guy if it was in front of us in a workshop. Regards Robert
I must have missed the part where you described the symptoms of the problem. Could you repeat at some point, what was the malfunction? Enjoying the video... thanks.
I think I missed that part also. I always like a detailed description from the owner of what happened, and when, and then what did they do then? I need that before I dig in too far. It can be the biggest clue to finding the difference between operator error, and an issue that could cause a repeat failure.
Would the tractor have to be split to convert it from 2wd to 4wd? I have a 6200 2wd with open cab and I'd like to turn it into 4wd if it's as easy as you made it seem in the video lol... Any chance you could tell me what is the part called that I would need to get to do that? Priced a radiator reservoir and JD wants $321 for it, that's more than the radiator itself. They want $1500 for the Schwitzer turbo, I think mine might be froze up. Tractor sat for years without running. We used to dairy farm on our land but after my father passed we had to shut it down. I'm trying to get things back running like they were.
Does it have a standard dry clutch on the motor? if so check it and the hydraulics for it. It would show the same problems if the hydraulics were leaking and not getting enough travel to release the clutch (as you push the pedal) and making it difficult to dissengage one gear or engage the next gear. It would be irratic.
Well I don't know what is wrong with the tractor the owner said it was missing gears don't seem like rear end problems would cause missing gears but Wes will find out I know never seen him fail yet.
I know it's too late now, but next time send a sample of oil to fluid analysts company. It will tell you want chunks are in the oil. I think it cost like $30 a sample
How come Tim couldn't rotate the hub with the trans disconnected? Surely it has to be something in that unit sat there? Or was he just being a Jessie and not trying hard enough? Cheers.
I think you will find the problem is there is drag from the diff gears and loaded bearings and you don't have enough leverage on the flange to turn the axle.
I've seen brakes that looked like that lock up the guy ran it low on oil and they locked up because they were warped from heat, that rear end should turn without that axle on if there is nothing wrong.
if it was the powershift packs why would the rear end still be stuck with that part of the trans not connected? my gut says Tim is right and its the rear end somewhere with those chunks I'd bet differential, maybe the missing speeds is just a coincidence and theres problems with the power shaft pack too, good luck regardless :]
Jeff, I like this one, ever blow a diff? Feels very diff. Especially if the operator felt like it was skipping gears, especially when turning, I really like it. How long did it take to lock up?
Seems like a pressure issue. I would also look into the reason why there was a failure in the first place. Pressure issues will definitely cause Trans issues
Personally I think your ring and pinion are fused together. Probably pulled something heavy with a quick yank, snapped a couple teeth and is now jammed together.
Too bad you didn't have a more knowledgeable dealer. First of all unless some major failure has wrecked the diff case all service can be done with the rear still in the tractor. You can even remove the differential from the back once the pto hsg is off. You remove the powerquad from the front with a cherry picker. Easy test for the rear end. If you can turn the pinion and the rear wheels turn ok there is no problem there. Common problem is a blown gasket between the valve body and powerquad housing. On some tractors the dowels were left out and it allows movement overtime and gasket failure, then you get cross leaks in the clutch pack circuits and it burns the trans up. Rebuild the packs, new gasket and add the dowels and you should be good for 10000hrs,if you use hy-gard, much less if you run shitty looking oil like that though.
I'll have to join the rest of you that think it's the diff, perhaps take a pipe wrench and trying to turn the axles or input shaft to the pinion, if it can't be moved then there's your problem. Oh, and never believe what an owner or operator of the now broken machinery tells you....... :-)
I really admire your taken to take a whole tractor apart put it back together again and have it work. I wouldn't even know where to begin.
Another great video. Hopefully we find out what the problem is before you leave, otherwise we might go a bit stir crazy!
Gotta love a project like this. It makes sense to me the way your going through it. Hopefully it's something relatively simple.
Wes, if I can maybe make a humble suggestion... If your camera just has a microphone "hole", perhaps you can glue a 3/16 thick rubber washer over/around it. That way, at least you'll be able to feel if you're putting your finger over it.
Thanks for the always entertaining videos.
-Dave
this is going to be a cliff hanger if you cant download when your on holiday we will all have to wait till you come back. I CANT WAIT THAT LONG. great job so far...
wes that Alan key set you have are they made by EKLIND part no d343106 ?
Looks like the alen keys are Elkin, I've got two sets :)
Eklind*
KimberlyBarnett123 I have a set as well best Alan keys I have ever bought.. :)
They are very good
Ooh man, this is a nice one. My best guess; it's the differential. When you pulled that tractor, both wheels where lock, if the gears where lock one wheel would have turned backwards. But now you tell us that he also misses gears. Goodluck figuring, and have a nice trip.
Tim will have all done by the time you get back right Tim enjoy your trip
Holy shit that is one complex little tractor
Get some suspenders Tim or work overalls. I'm built like you and for years I fought ass crack and pulling up my pants all the time wearing a belt. The comfort of your pants staying were they are suppose to be is worth the old fashioned look.
Brake linings coming apart were a common problem on the 6000 series. I have heard of one being driven on the road that got slower an slower and when the driver stopped to see what the problem was it had started melting the paint on the trumpet housings.
hey wes is the crap in the bottom of the sump the pto clutch. it was on both of my 6400's. but that would not cause shifting problems. good luck. love the video
Inside the first casing on the front of the shuttle pack is a pump which holds the clutch packs together, when worn it scours the casing and you can lose pressure, this results in your clutch packs slipping and little black squares of facing coming off...
If its just a directional problem, the solenoids on the bottom of the F/R pack should be the first port of call.
Looks as though tomorrow we will finally see the problem, :D
I think I like the other tractors you can open the top of the trans case to see everything. that one looks like a nightmare, but it's fascinating to see
A heated shop IS a plus! You have a good start on one close up the area your trying to heat and get away from heating with diesel fuel will help I prefer LP infrared heaters they are more cost effective and quieter and a LOT cleaner. AS A GOOD FREIND OF MINE SAYS "LITTLE BY LITTLE" WINS THE RACE
cant wait for the next vid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Put 2 of the wheel bolts in 2 holes apart and try turning the axle with a lever bar. you probably won't be able to turn the axle just by itself (by holding the flange) because of the bearing and diff gear drag. If the axles rotate in the same direction its a limited slip diff (or engaged diff lock) and if they rotate in different directions its an open diff with either 2 or 4 spider gears and 2 side gears. The backlash you can feel is backlash (or clearance) in the diff gears and side gears and axle splines and is perfectly normal. Can be up to 15* on some diffs. From what you are describing It doesn't sound like any diff or brake problem. Syncros can be checked by looking at the clearance between the back of the syncro ring and the face of the dog teeth as you pull it into gear slowly. This will also show broken syncro rings too. If it was consistant id say it was Syncros, but gears dissappearing id say either selector problems. (worn control linkages and loose levers broken detent springs bent selector forks or loos securing bolt or similar. I haven't had anything much to do with powershift but if they are sets of clutches like an auto Id look there for burned or damaged steels and discs or their selectors. It would have been nice if youd been able to see the problem before it was f@#ked with. It would have made the job easier. BTW have a nice holiday Wes.
You need a fiber optic inspection camera with as much stuff as you repair. Would let you look into the rear end and inspect it without taking it all the way apart. They're not all that expensive today, and using one makes looking into things a whole lot easier without total disassembly.
Should be named one lonely tractor doctor in winter, one lonely farmer in summer. Enjoy your holiday you will have earner it.
Wes, I have to agree with most others out there, been turning wrenches for over 40 years. Just what are those pieces coming our on your finger made of???
Wes you and Tim should set up a cuss jar and see who's fills up the fastest and in one week winner takes all one dollar per word. Just thought it would be funny.
My wife agrees.
Looks like fun.
Would this be a good application for an inexpensive inspection camera? You could actually send one up thru the hole to look at the differential gears ,just to sure something isn't jammed into the gears?
I wouldda pulled the other axle and hub off and checked that out...stay tuned..
Clutch packs shift plates ,material in the oil is from the material glued to the the plates
Drive and diagnose next time, find what gears are missing before disassembled.
You could stream clean your tracker
I have had a pinion bearing come apart and the rollers got jammed between the pinion and the ring gear. Just a thought.
Wes, I'm with the guys that thinks it's a rear diff issue. Unless there is something about that tractor that I don't understand, the axles should be free wheeling and obviously they are not. I would really want to know why the axles aren't free wheeling before I would even think about tearing into the transmission/gearbox. Maybe there is an issue there too, but IMO you have an issue there.
Tim. Sorry I can't make it to the big party this weekend.
Hi Wes as always we aren't seeing the whole picture here, that you are working on it. I'm with the others on a comment of why cant you turn the differential/axle, and it skiding in to the shop. With no wheels on if nothings locked one hub should turn forward and the other back. if it was me i'd put 2 studs in the hub at say 3 and 9 o clock position and try turning that axle with a large bar, to see if it moves or find out why it's locked. either it's locked in park somehow or you maybe got 2 problems from what we can and can't see in the video's.. I hate guessing problems online, so much we can't see, hear or feel that we need to is missing that would help a guy if it was in front of us in a workshop.
Regards Robert
I must have missed the part where you described the symptoms of the problem. Could you repeat at some point, what was the malfunction? Enjoying the video... thanks.
I think I missed that part also. I always like a detailed description from the owner of what happened, and when, and then what did they do then? I need that before I dig in too far. It can be the biggest clue to finding the difference between operator error, and an issue that could cause a repeat failure.
Would the tractor have to be split to convert it from 2wd to 4wd? I have a 6200 2wd with open cab and I'd like to turn it into 4wd if it's as easy as you made it seem in the video lol... Any chance you could tell me what is the part called that I would need to get to do that?
Priced a radiator reservoir and JD wants $321 for it, that's more than the radiator itself. They want $1500 for the Schwitzer turbo, I think mine might be froze up. Tractor sat for years without running. We used to dairy farm on our land but after my father passed we had to shut it down. I'm trying to get things back running like they were.
amazing how much workshop time due to weather conditions
Tim has a GREAT face expression at 3:47 ! :-D
Does it have a standard dry clutch on the motor? if so check it and the hydraulics for it. It would show the same problems if the hydraulics were leaking and not getting enough travel to release the clutch (as you push the pedal) and making it difficult to dissengage one gear or engage the next gear. It would be irratic.
Right TIM
Well I don't know what is wrong with the tractor the owner said it was missing gears don't seem like rear end problems would cause missing gears but Wes will find out I know never seen him fail yet.
I know it's too late now, but next time send a sample of oil to fluid analysts company. It will tell you want chunks are in the oil. I think it cost like $30 a sample
So do the axle shafts turn as it is? If they don't I would bet its in the rear end.
Oh Boy, The plot thickens !!! CSI New Jersey
Tim, get some overalls like your old man! lol...
How come Tim couldn't rotate the hub with the trans disconnected? Surely it has to be something in that unit sat there? Or was he just being a Jessie and not trying hard enough? Cheers.
I think you will find the problem is there is drag from the diff gears and loaded bearings and you don't have enough leverage on the flange to turn the axle.
Can you do a cold start on your 4430
I've seen brakes that looked like that lock up the guy ran it low on oil and they locked up because they were warped from heat, that rear end should turn without that axle on if there is nothing wrong.
if it was the powershift packs why would the rear end still be stuck with that part of the trans not connected? my gut says Tim is right and its the rear end somewhere with those chunks I'd bet differential, maybe the missing speeds is just a coincidence and theres problems with the power shaft pack too, good luck regardless :]
My vote is with a problem in the crown wheel / pinion / diff region.
why cant you turn the half shafts of the rear axle i think its in the diff
Spider gears,they were just grabbing sometimes giving the impression of missing gears???I'm a boat tech what do I know lol.
Jeff, I like this one, ever blow a diff? Feels very diff. Especially if the operator felt like it was skipping gears, especially when turning, I really like it. How long did it take to lock up?
Seems like a pressure issue. I would also look into the reason why there was a failure in the first place. Pressure issues will definitely cause Trans issues
Evening all :)
I don't know, seems to me that rear end should rotate freely. Your this far Id check both.
Tell Tim crack kills lol
check the break packs
Personally I think your ring and pinion are fused together. Probably pulled something heavy with a quick yank, snapped a couple teeth and is now jammed together.
Tim!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:-)
Well if the Trans is locked. .I'm thinking reverse idler....
what brand of tools do you prefer snap on or matco
Whichever one is within reach.
Snap on for screwdrivers and Long Handled needle nose pliers.
Snap on end wrenches with flank drive jaws.
Too bad you didn't have a more knowledgeable dealer. First of all unless some major failure has wrecked the diff case all service can be done with the rear still in the tractor. You can even remove the differential from the back once the pto hsg is off. You remove the powerquad from the front with a cherry picker. Easy test for the rear end. If you can turn the pinion and the rear wheels turn ok there is no problem there. Common problem is a blown gasket between the valve body and powerquad housing. On some tractors the dowels were left out and it allows movement overtime and gasket failure, then you get cross leaks in the clutch pack circuits and it burns the trans up. Rebuild the packs, new gasket and add the dowels and you should be good for 10000hrs,if you use hy-gard, much less if you run shitty looking oil like that though.
Shift quadrant busted plum off.
are you sure you can put it all back together? lol
Release the crack-en! ;)
5:13
ouch.... turning into a bigger job then expected i guess, i hope the piece of equipment is worth it, whos paying the parts btw?
Looks like differential problem why else would it be locked up like it is
I'll have to join the rest of you that think it's the diff, perhaps take a pipe wrench and trying to turn the axles or input shaft to the pinion, if it can't be moved then there's your problem.
Oh, and never believe what an owner or operator of the now broken machinery tells you....... :-)
FIRST lol.
John deere shit