0:57 You're missing a lot, but instead of throwing them right away you need to take an extra turn aiming in order to get the weapon's accuracy bonus-otherwise you don't get the bonus _and_ get hit with a snap-shot penalty -4 to your skill.
Hi Shad! Nice! I would like to make two points. Those throwing knives require more skill to throw than the Blade Heavy throwing knife. The blade heavy are almost impossible to miss a shot. The second point is like throwing star are more for a distraction to allow the thrower to escape. Love what you do!
And do not forget, that throwing knives are also in favor of any type of assassins - just add poison to the blade and you got it - deadly, compact, ranged weapon
I agree with the three points. 1. A throwing knife is not well balanced. It is point heavy. 2. Throwing knives are not thrown with a spin. 3. Poison is added to make it a high probability kill as long as the skin is broken.
They also make it easier to attack someone too since you can exploit that distraction and confusion to force an opening or weakness to show. Plus with poison it can make prolonged fights in your favour if you nick the target
Essentially these are just pointy, flimsy things for target practice. This is not something you would use in any real scenario. MY throwing knives are hefty and brutal. You get hit by one of them and youre staggered and have a dent in your armor whether I hit with the pointy bit or not. And if youre not armored, you are gonna get hurt. I think as such... As a projectile to chuck at somebody.. On a 3-5 meter distance before entering combat, it can be very effective indeed. But its not like you would show up to any kind of battle armed only with throwing knives. And you are right. The biggest problem with them is the amount of training you would need to reliably hit anything. But if its heavy, any throw that lands, will stagger a person.
Reading sword and spirit, there's an interview with a shuriken teacher who really emphasises the fact that it's a distraction only, if you're lucky you might hurt an opponent, a shuriken in your arm hurts just like a cut and can tip the scales in your favor Also, the throwing knives shown here look like kunai which were supposedly used as a kind of multi tool, knife, climbing tool, shovel, also sometimes a string was attached. I guess anyone carrying one or more would also learn to throw them so as to make the most of their potential.
The kunai (might be mistaken, don't @ me) started out as a farming tool, but when sharpened, could be used as a knife, while still having the plausible deniability of being just a tool. Since only samurai could carry proper weapons in peace times, the commoners of japan have found various ways to make their inconspicuous tools into self-defense weaponry (as seen with weapons such as the kama and the bo and jo staffs)
@@alecchristiaen4856 Yeah, most of the weapons used by shinobi (ninjas) were originally farming tools. The vast majority of shinobi were peasant freedom fighters or mercenaries using whatever tools they had on hand and any techniques and strategies they needed to use to take on samurai, guards, and soldiers who had superior weapons, armor, and training. Despite their appearances in pop culture, shinobi would have never used a katana in combat due to how expensive they were, unless of course they managed to steal one from a samurai - but even then they would probably quickly discard it because it would draw too much attention.
shuriken were used as caltrops, thrown into the ground to stop pursuers. at some point someone might have found themselves with a shuriken in their possession, and *threw* it at an enemy. *can* shuriken be thrown *at* enemies? yes... *are* they *throwing weapons* in full effect? no. can you use a shovel as a hammer? yes... if it's all you have, you use it. *is* it a hammer as such? no... it's a shovel. that's why a hammer is called a hammer, and a shovel it's a shovel.... it's two different objects. I'm all for unorthodox use of everyday objects, but from there to use a hammer to dig a trench? that's stupid.
In the Book of Five Rings Miyamoto Musashi suggests all samurai learn the art of shuriken-jutsu because being able to throw knives and other objects well was a huge asset. Musashi describes using it as a disctraction/injury technique to give you the chance to draw your sword or make an attack while they are distracted.
What I know is that in Japan the throwing knives were used primarily for distraction and surprise attacks in warfare. While in central Africa they were used as primary throwing weapons in warfare and hunting. The African types often had heavy head styles of throwing knife, that we're hefty and lethal, while the Japanese throwing knives were extremely small and light and not able to likely kill anyone.
@@SHIVSHANK ehh, a small one wouldn't do much regardless of where it hit, but if it was tampered like with something toxic then yeah probably. You could definitely take out an eye but all arteries and windpipes are fairly deep in the neck, small ones wouldn't do much. On top of that I doubt anyone, even ones who mastered it, would have the accuracy to properly hit said places.
@@TuberoseKisser you'd be surprised. There's masters out their including some who've mastered the kunai with chain/rope, capable of hitting falling objects in air with precision and accuracy and even stationary or moving objects with ease. It's not impossible just takes a long time to master the precise hand eye coordination needed for such skill
08:50 That is one of the big misconceptions regarding thrown knives, that they NEED to spin. There are techniques where you throw them without any or very little spin and a very flat trajectory that ensures the point/edge is always facing the target. These throws can be done very swiftly with a distracting sweeping motion which has shorter range than throws with a spin but also guarantees the knife poses a threat to things like exposed hands, wrists, the neck or face, making sure that they serve their primary historical usage of being a distraction with the potential to injure. On top of that, throwing just about any lighter kind of weapon on a loose cloth or tarp like what you have there makes for a very poor demonstration since it almost ensures you can't get any penetration since with even a good hit most if not all energy will be lost just pushing that cloth/tarp towards the background material, air resistance being what it is. I will also say that of course just about any quick takedowns with thrown knives that don't rely on swift bleeding out from severed arteries or very temporarily stunning/knocking someone out by hitting them in the eye or temple is bullshit but I think almost everyone knows this.
I used to practice knife throwing (I haven't had a suitable target in a long time; I would use phone books, the blade largely slipped through the pages, meaning they lasted a while) using a spinless throwing method. I would do them with a Ka-bar, which has a bowie knife shape.
Not true at all at face requires 0 spin at 5 feet would knock a dude off his feet not counting the facial damage the kinetic energy distribution is key from toe to point of knife
@@based_prophet I'm not sure I understand you but I assume you are basically talking about baseball-pitching into someone's face from point-blank range and honestly in such cases it does not really matter what you throw because anyone unaware enough to not dodge will be so surprised that anything from an apple to a cellphone or slipper is likely to make them fall over.
A throwing knife that doesn't spin won't stick to a target because it literally won't land point in or hit the target at much the 3 foot range. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
Throwing knives could be an interesting weapon for a magic user in fantasy. imagine someone who uses telekinesis or something similar to the force form star wars, he could accelerate them at crazy speeds and could have a small pouch of basically bullets in a medieval setting. and if he can slow them down in time he could even redirect them after throwing. it could be quite op and could be a good use of magic for a beginner magician in a story as moving small objects is pretty much the starting point for telekinesis.
That would depend on how fast they can accelerate the thing, or if they can simply "steer" the knives in mid-air. A slower but sharper object would be as deadly as a faster but blunt object. Otherwise, a bag full of steel balls will give you more bang for your buck and be deadlier and easier to handle than a throwing knife. Basically, they would be firing bullets in every way but the delivery method. In fact, pebbles, coins, etc. Would work as well. If that is the case, the only reason I think of someone using throwing knives is because they also want a melee weapon whenever they can't use their powers, and/or they are just edgy/rule of cool. Anyways, it's a good idea.
If you would like to see a wonderful depiction of telekinesis combat in a modern setting then I recommend the movie Push. They have a scene where two Tk users are having a shoot out with guns that they are levitating around each other’s cover. It’s pretty awesome.
Look up Pucci and Dio from Jojo's bizzare adventure. Pucci can do exactly as you described in the final chapter and use his power: Made in Heaven to Accelerate things... including knifes. DIO by contrast can use is power -ZA WUARDO- The World to stop time for a while, and he uses this time to great effect, often throwing a bushel of knifes at his opponent all at once.
I was really into ninja stuff when I was a teenager and did a lot of reading into them and even then I learned quite well that shuriken and throwing knives were mostly just distraction and annoyance rather than to mortally injure anyone, unless maybe if used with poison. But even then you'd probably just be better with a bow.
Yeah, if you can poison a knife, you can poison an arrow. It would probably be pretty foolish to try and poison a shuriken though. There wouldn't really be any safe way to grab the thing under stress.
@@vandiverb You're telling me the man born in the 1930s killed people with little shiny stars? Or he 'could' have in theory? Because that means nothing.
Great video, as always, Shad. I just have a few things (aka a whole essay) that I would like to touch on when it comes to throwing knives. Full disclosure: I'm not an expert, but I have had my fair experience with throwing knives and am familiar with most of the basics, as well as aware of how NOT to throw them (which I still somehow manage to do frequently) First off: You're throwing kunai, which are not meant to be spun when thrown. They're meant to be thrown "straight", with 180 degrees of rotation at the most, for a maximum range. "Straight" throws are easier to do and learn anyways, while spinning throws are more difficult and "advanced", for lack of a better word. Which brings me to my second point: Even if you were throwing the appropriate kind of knives, you're still not throwing them properly. When you put spin on a knife it's not supposed to be a rapid spin with tons of rpms, like you see in movies and tv, because that increases the likelihood of hitting with something other than the point. It's supposed to be a slow, controlled spin, so that the point hits the target, rather than anything else. The weight of the knife is supposed to stabilize it and/or drive the point into the target, but that can only do so much. NOW even IF you did everything correctly, yes throwing knives are still more of a novelty than an actual functional battlefield weapon, HOWEVER with proper technique they can be used even more effectively in their limited uses than you gave them credit for. For example, in modern times, what is the likelihood that an attacker is going to be wearing armor? None. A hoodie at most, unless you're in a fight with armed security, at which point you have other problems. Even in that scenario, a heavy enough knife, when thrown properly can pose a real danger to an attacker, forcing them to either block or dodge, which, as you said, is the real use of a throwing knife. TO CLARIFY: You can throw any kind of knife. When I say "throwing the appropriate kind of knives" I'm specifically referring to the shape of the knife, and, more importantly, the point of balance. For example, those kunai have their weight focused near the handle, making their point of balance in the center. When these are thrown, the point of balance needs to be directly behind the tip of the knife, otherwise the energy, which now uses the point as a fulcrum, will continue to spin the knife rather than force the tip home. In large bladed knives, where the weight is focused near the tip, the point of balance pulls the tip forward, rather than spinning and twisting wildly as the kunai are when you throw them. However, this makes driving the point home easier, because the weight of the knife has already reached the target and therefore has less leverage. Also, Jorg Sprave has a video, that you may or may not have seen, where he learns to properly and effectively throw knives in a matter of minutes, proving that you don't necessarily need years of practice to get adequate at throwing knives. I think I covered most of the important stuff, but I'm sure I forgot to mention SOMETHING. P.S. I've tried Magic Spoon and it's okay cereal, but extremely expensive. Additionally, the only flavors I liked was the Frosted and the fruity. The others were kind of meh... 😕
A kunai like those were a tool first. A cutting, prying and digging tool, you would also use as a dagger first in a conflict. They were occasionally thrown mainly to distract either while you swapped to a primary weapon or ran the hell away.
Kunai's have always been cheap unsharpened stakes except for in Modern Times to sell :Ninja: . Japan has many types of military and utility knifes and Kunai isn't one. Kunai is usually made of pig iron, and typical daggers are made of Steel.
Adam Celandin (world champion knife thrower) has made a response video to this! Exciting! He has some awesome content also and great tips if anyone wants to learn knife throwing.
throwing knives at least from my understanding has always been much more of a utility item. it can function as a knife, a small shovel, basic climbing gear, and if needed a thrown weapon. it's always important to carry one or two but they would never be your main weapon.
I don't think they would work as a tool. Throwing knives have no handle (except for kunai, some chakrams and the african knives) also their edge usually isn't sharp so they would be really bad cutting tool. If I had to choose I'd much rather some hunting knife or even kitchen cleaver to cut small trees or dig a hole.
That scene in Lord of the Rings proves that a thrown knife can be deflected using a melee weapon. Context: There’s a scene in Lord of the Rings where an orc throws a dagger at Aragorn, one of the heroes. The knife was supposed to miss by a wide margin and the camera angle would be used to make it look like a close call. However, the actor throwing the knife had bad aim and threw it directly at Aragorn, who deflected it using his sword. It was such a cool maneuver that they kept it in the movie. Also, the prop knife was metal so would in theory be similar to a throwing knife.
Gaijin Ghoomba has covered ninja stars and shuriken many times on his channel. A point he often makes is that in the real world they weren't really used for lethality. They were used for a distraction to open the target up for an ambushing strike (like you pointed out), a diversion to infiltrate or escape, or to poison the target. In some cases to supplement hand to hand combat. Larger kunai were not really throwing weapons, but functioned more as tools like hand spades.
or to reduce effectiveness... I mean, if your not stuck in a video game were you just loose some HPs after a hit, a knife sticking in your leg or foot or arm is propably decreasing your effectiveness in melee fighting. and if you can accomplish that outside of measure, i.e. without beeing effectivly threatend, thats great
@@andrewlatourette428 Kind of, but they were basically never used at all. There were always better options then kunai to use for most tasks, making it the last choice only really relied on by people who couldn't access them. As for the climbing stone walls specifically, thats quite niche and a kunai wouldn't really work any better then another bladed object that is more sturdy. EDIT I realized I kind of over exaggerated by saying "never" they were somewhat common, just not used by professional warriors who had better choices (dedicated throwing knifes existed and were a lot better then kunai or normal knifes were better at doing the task of being an normal knife.)
That guy doesn't know WTF he's talking about. I've seen his videos and he's always inaccurate or just flat-out wrong. Antony Cummins is a historical researcher and linguist who works with Japanese historians to translate scrolls used by Shinobi schools and training. They are not a specific "ninja" weapon or tool. He has a whole series just about shuriken. In scrolls he's translated, the shuriken is only referenced in criminal capture. So calling a shuriken a "ninja star" is asinine. Antony struggles to find any evidence connecting them to ninja or shinobi at all. They were not for distraction, ambushes, poisonings, or anything. That's made up of fictional nonsense based on stage plays/theater and fictional stories that were written in the mid-1830s, then it was popularized in movies. Goober Ghoomba just repeats shit he read on the internet. Historically, shuriken was more the straight big nail-looking things in kenjutsu (swordsmanship) associated teachings. It's just a hidden weapon/tool, not a throwing thing.
congrats shad: by the powers of deduction you have come to the correct conclusion about shuriken (and honestly most light throwing weapons) - there a concealable distraction/wounding tool, definitely NOT a lethal weapon. Also throwing weapons are much better indoors than a bow or other ranged weapon. So much more useful for a Guard or assassin or spy than a battlefield soldier who obviously would prefer a bow or xbow or whatever. One final point: thats a terrible throwing knife.. its tacticool mall ninja kunai - see that ring pommel - that was for the rope. Real kunai being tools before they were ever weapons used for digging and also for weighting the end of a rope for going over tree branches to pull them down for harvest. any ways - hope this didnt come off disrespectful - I do enjoy your content and appreciate you sharing your knowledge just you were a bit off on this one chap.
As a main weapon it's fairly bad as you'd need to magically carry infinite daggers, have fairly amazing aim, only fight relativly lightly armoured opponents (though even an armoured opponent might flinch instinctivly) & you'd probably still need to mix it with regular knife-fighting to be even somewhat effective. As a side-arm or backup weapon, carrying 3-4 throwing knives has potential to be usefull. Especially if they are also effective for regular knife/dagger-fighting. Hell, you don't even necesarly care about it killing. Just distracting, or lightly wounding an opponent may be worth the effort of carrying one.
If you were writing a story And you have a character that only uses knives, The problem is you're writing. That is not realistic. Especially a warrior. Modern armies have learned, It's better better to wound the soldier then to kill. When you kill you only take one person out of your battle. If You wound him his cries takes the medics and his buddies out of the battle.
@@milesromine9960 The thing is that this is situational. In a ranged combat scenario, you may be able to find the time to notice that your buddy is bleeding and think you have an opportunity to remove him to somewhere safer for aid. In a close combat scenario though, even if you somehow manage to notice that your buddy is hurt, you're going to be too committed to trying to not die to deal with that immediately. And hell, even if he's mortally wounded, the pure adrenaline of the situation may still allow him to continue to contribute to the fight.
@@ColonelSandersLite All combat scenarios are situational, it doesn't matter about the weapon. This is why I said If you have a character who only uses knives and nothing else it's bad writing. You cannot flinch fast enough to beat a knife that is thrown from 15 ft. Even if you could the nife Wielder can throw up to four knives with one hand in less than a second. Most armors do not cover the face. Most actual knife wielders will have the proper weapon for the proper combat. Armor defeats knives except for the face because most people's faces are not armored all the time. Against heavy armored foes the knife wielder uses axes. If your character is coming across two or three people carrying spears. And your character has a sword in You're right hand. So you grab three knives with your left. A person's face is a big target to a knife thrower Who practices hitting golf tees to train accuracy. And I'm sorry but I cannot see a scenario where a guy has a knife stuck through his mouth tickling his spinal cord fighting through it.
You can do both. There are multiple different types of way to throw knives. I also believe that it might depend on the knife. Adam Celadin YT channel has a lot on the subject
Yes you can do both, you can also pull off with your tires spinning.... Same principle, the spinning seems to waste force. I can throw both ways and the 1/2 turn overhand at short distances and underhand at longer distances definately inserts the blade deeper into the target
I’ve been practicing throwing every day for a couple years now. Real throwing knives make a difference but I understand Shad’s point of view coming from his experience with them.
I've always imagined the purpose of the throwing knife to be exactly the context they are used in in the Princess Bride. I don't feel like lethality is absolutely required as long as you can injure someone without being at much risk for injury yourself.
Indeed. The downside is just tossing your opponent weapons to be used against you. And yeah, they’re rarely lethal. It’s like the knife fight military safety videos; the best way to survive a knife fight when unarmed is to run away. Or to add another heuristic, a knife fight typically has two outcomes: the loser dies in the street and the winner dies in hospital later on from sepsis.
@@KUsery42 Major Kira in an episode of DS9, trying to prove a point, stated (with a knife to Ziyal's throat): "The best way to survive a knife fight is to never get in one."
@@KUsery42 Yeah we have an old saying over here where I live about people who are bleeding out. It goes like this. Transported by ambulance through the ER into the waiting room then off to the cemetery.
Funny enough, this came up in a D&D session with my buds. the fighter carried throwing knives on him because they were easier to carry than javelins, and he normally fights using a longsword. Are they as effective as a javelin? No. Do they cripple him to carry them? No, and not only that, but he has an easily concealed weapon, and it can double as a last ditched ranged attack to save someone if necessary (keep in mind, in our D&D sessions we do "realistic carry" meaning we have to be able to explain how we're carrying something. Meaning a fighter can't carry his sword, a bow, 20 arrows, and 10 javelins on top of all of his camping equipment like you're used to seeing)
I've seen throwing javelins inside of a arrow-like case before IRL, but they were just 1/2 a foot or so longer than an arrow draw for that person. Realistically speaking they would do about as much damage as throwing an arrow as well. Furthermore, depending on how the weapons are packed, you could carry all that equipment you listed... you just could not get to some of that equipment with the pack on... likely the Javelins making them pointless, unless someone was drawing them from another's pack.
You could also look up the iron "war darts" or the late roman plumbata that allegedly inspired them too Its prospectively heavier than a throwing knife but its more or less a very cut down javlin
In my campaign, my sorcerer keeps throwing knives on her. Why? Well...because they come in handy sometimes. We're a party of nearly all casters, so our DM throws an anti-magic circle at us. Everyone else was nearly unable to deal much more than a scratch to the enemy due to them losing access to their magic if they got within attacking range, and any magic attack that gets within that range also dissipated. So my sorcerer uses Tenser's Transformation and starts chucking throwing knives at the guy. Couldn't get close otherwise the transformation would end also, but throwing knives from range means I get the advantage of Tenser's Transformation while the knives don't count as magical attacks. I probably dealt about 95% of the damage for that fight, and is about the only time where they came in handy. The only other character who wasn't totally handicapped due to the anti magic was the one character who had an artifact, which is apparently strong enough to not be affected by the anti-magic.
As someone who has a set of throwing knives that they play around with occasionally I relate to the start so much! Also some tips: you should keep your wrist straight and have all the rotation come from your arm, also you shouldn't let go of the knives and instead hold them in a way just light enough that they slip out of your hands at the right time. These tips have been a life saver to me when trying to learn how to throw knifes (have yet to completely figure out no spin sadly)
"When I mention Ninja Death Stars, I'm talking about throwing weapons, not the Japanese dub of Star Wars." You got me on that, Shad, well done! Edit: It's "Press 'X' to doubt," not F.
@@rachdarastrix5251 I dunno about that. A surprise attack might have made the battle of yavin go a bit differently. Hell, the battle of endor would have been completely different if the rebels just didn't know where the death star was too.
In my view, throwing knives in combat are for "O fuck, I gotta throw something… Knife!" Anything thrown at someone is gonna be a reasonably good distraction, even moreso if it has a sharp edge, either to get an opening for an attack or to buy just a moment o' extra time for something else (like running the fuck away in my case).
if someone is running at you with a knife at 20 meters you will be able to draw a gun and fire. 20 meters is 66 feet what you are thinking about is the 21 foot rule
I would just like to point out, most throwing knives aren't heavy on purpose. For practice and safety, you train and compete with light knives. For context, those can't even stick to tree bark. But I have knives that will stick to trees much like a thrown axe will, they're much heavier and thicker than even normal camping/survival knives. What you're doing with those knives is almost like trying to judge a long sword by testing a LARP foam sword against a target. Yeah, you can train technique, but effectiveness is not the same.
*THROW DAGGERS ARE TERRIBLE WEAPONS BUT GREAT STEALTH TOOLS :* 1) Feint throw to the head then pause, and after the enemy moves to dodge retarget the spot they are moving towards THEN throw. 2) Immediately after you throw you either run forward and tackle through your opponent or run away entirely 3) Before being sighted, throw one at a pot or window, to cause a noise distraction and then sneak out 4) Douse one in oil, light it on fire then throw it into walls to create fire or into flammable materials to cause panic 5) Leave one in the path of an enemy, then hide for a free head shot when he drops down to collect it 6) Use them as steppers to scale high walls (stab them between the bricks then climb on them) 7) Attach one to the end of a chain and swing it around to ward of several attackers or to block incoming missiles aimed at you. 8) Throw to bait a shield raise, then attack the legs with a takedown and disarm if you have no other options To name a few ;) Mispent youth... Very surprised nobody seems to think these things have any value except as a main weapon, when that's literally the least likely use of them.
@@DailyCorvid Um... so many of those would be more effectively done with just using a different weapon/tool? 1: I guess any throwable thing counts? 2: Rock. It's free and practically everywhere. 3: Rock. 4: Rock (in-cloth)/stick/arrow/torch. Oil doesn't stick at all well to metal. Use wood/cloth like everyone else! 5: Just how dumb are you expecting the person to be? And/or just how sharp do you think their eyes are? Why are they walking around while closely examining the ground in the first place? Are people normally not going to think "Huh, a weapon lying around, this might be a dangerous area and I should be on my guard?" 6: Really? I've never personally tried it, but I imagine there are far more effective and reliable ways to climb a wall. Grappling hook or ladder comes to mind. Or a pile of the guards' corpses. 7: If you are that godly skilled to accurately block high-speed projectiles with a super-narrow piece of metal with enough force to deflect projectiles, just grab it out of the air instead. Looks much cooler! Also, no it's not a "dagger" at all, just a blade on a rope. Pretty sure that already has a name, just not gonna google it for ya. 8: Rock. Or just attack them with a good feint using the primary weapon you should be using instead. Also, how fast do run compared to the distance you are from them?
Actually, in the form of throwing your doing, you'd determine a constant form of throwing, so the spin is consent, and you'd throw either blade, or handle, depending on how far you are, since the number of rotations the blade needs to stick em with the pointy end is partly based on which end your holding. Though strength of throw does matter a little still, this makes it less of an issue, and easy to calculate. Also, your throwing them wrong, you'd throw them more like a throwing Axe in this style.
When I was younger I wrote a couple fantasy books as a hobby and one of my favorite running gags was my main character attempting to use his backup daggers as throwing knives, usually resulting in them either missing completely or hitting at the wrong angle and just bouncing off. Unless you've put in an insane amount of training, the idea of doing anything productive with a thrown knife *in a combat situation* is pretty far fetched to me. Seems like some wannabe commando shit.
where can I find this story, it sound's interesting on how realistic is sounds... I hope it is anyway and when I write a story, I have knives be as long as possible since it isn't a good idea to use it as a main weapon unless it's more of a sword for you than anything, and even then, duel wielding it to compensate for it since having 2 should at least help in using oe to throw to get in close to stab in a weak point area, or as the side arm for your arming sword and throwing knives be laces with either a poison or paralysis to make surethe enemy is damages more when cut, and namely as a distraction more than anything
@@LoneWolf20213 heh, unfortunately I don't have the story anymore as I lived with my strict religious parents at the time of writing it and they thought it was demonic so they smashed my computer to pieces with a sledgehammer. I wish I had kept better backups. But I do appreciate your interests! I would definitely love to go back and revisit that world at some point. Yup, main character's weapon was an axe and he kept two daggers as back up weapons. Poisoned blades would be a really good idea! That was something the Chinese did with their repeating crossbows, where to make up for the weapons low penetrating power they would coat the bolts in poison so that even a scratch could prove deadly.
@@Phoenix0F8 That's a bummer. Sure doesn't sound like good parenting, religious or otherwise. (My family, close and extended, is quite religious, but none would do something so terrible!)
Hey Shad, great vid as always man. Love watching your content instead of baking outside in the New Mexico desert. The one thing I can add here, especially in respect to fantasy type situations is how versatile a throwing knife is when combined with poison, especially for stealth/assassination. Even with chain mail it'd only take a nick. While you wouldn't get great penetrating power vs chain mail, the tip of the knife will still break the skin. Granted the assassin would have to toss it and run, but by the time the commotion died down the target would have died as well, even from a nick.
11:00 It's not just that throwing knives are easy to dodge because even if you can't dodge left or right, you can still use movement to negate them entirely. As you noted very early in the video, Shad, you have to get the perfect amount of spin to have the knives hit straight on with the point and penetrate. So even if someone can't dodge a knife completely, a single step backwards will prevent the knife from striking with the point and make the whole thing worthless. Given this, there are really only two viable uses for throwing knives: 1. As a pure distraction 2. As a regular knife that isn't thrown
@@keggerous the force the blade hits with is higher when it spins if travelling at the same velocity due to a fraction of its angular momentum adding to the impact.
@@simonfarre4907 The momentum is traveling in the circle though, not in the direction of the throw. It wont pierce deeper. Also, you can literally throw the knives harder because of the technique. When you throw with a spinning technique, you have to control the spin and wrist movements. You cannot throw as hard as you can. With the no-spin technique, you can throw as hard as you can.
This is the only guy who knows how to make great, compelling sponsored content. I always skip sponsored parts, but here, I'm always looking forward to them
Well, there is also Neytrix with her character skits featuring Pufferbunny, and Terrible Writing Advice, which has a whole storyline written around parodies of various stock villians figthing over Skillshare or Campfire Blaze, while Knigths of Artistic Integrity are trying to prevent them from destroying the world.
Adam Celandin (world champion knife thrower) has made a response video to this! Exciting! He has some awesome content also and great tips if anyone wants to learn knife throwing.
Hi Shad, while i agree with you about practicality of thrown knives in combat, i do think you might be selling the idea a bit short. I threw knives, 9 inchs nails etc as a target practice hobby with my dad when i was a kid (cooler than darts, for sure). Never spin the thrown single-pointed object more than 180 degrees btw. With a bit training we scored solid hits to 5 to 10 meters every time. I'd say my dad would have been down right mortally dangerous at that distance with knives. Maybe do a cooperation video with Adam Celadin... he's real good at knife throwing and seems a nice and cool guy in general. :)
I was taught how to throw knives by my mother and she used to hunt rabbits with a bowie knife. Every time I see someone make a video critiquing throwing knives they have no idea about the real methods vs the movie spin a thousand times nonsense.
I agree, at least somewhat. I've spent quite a bit of time throwing and I think they do have uses in close range. Especially in melee combat, if you have something you can quickly draw and throw you can out range the other person and throw them off. I used to practice no spin and half spin out to 30 feet (max) and it's definitely doable but like Shad said it would be easy to dodge at that range, close up you're not going to dodge and unlikely to miss.
@@richardtous1085 I'm pretty sure Shad's done videos with Skallagrim (Canada), Metatron (Italy), Schola Gladiatoria (UK) etc before. I think such cooperation would be entirely doable. :)
You can't compare these to crapchucks. There is a HUGE difference why throwing knives are way better than nunchucks... It's that anyone can pick up a knife and throw it WITHOUT hurting themselves
Throwing knives would be best utilized in conjunction with other weapons as part of a group; the knives get the target’s immediate attention before a more direct attack is implemented.
Thrown knives are slower than a fired arrow or bolt, so it could actually make enemy aware of an attack from a different angle, so that a (cross)bow user can shoot him while his attention is elsewhere (I assume opponent uses shield and can't just parry bolts on reaction with his sword).
Adam Celandin (world champion knife thrower) has made a response video to this! Exciting! He has some awesome content also and great tips if anyone wants to learn knife throwing.
Most often, shuriken were used as a distraction without the intention to kill. Sometimes they were also smeared with poison or even feces so that even a slight graze could turn into a difficult-to-treat infection. Fascinating video, I love hearing you talk about this stuff. Have you done a video about the chakram yet? It seems like a logical next step if you haven't tackled it already
I'm actually pretty good at throwing knives. It's all about knowing what distances the tip will be aligned at, which becomes increasingly difficult the more rotations.
Yeah ya probably have to be when youre hunting in danger riddled tombs for long lost relics like crystal skulls that you can then hollow out and fill with vodka
@@Stop_Gooning It's hard at first but if you can manage it, it becomes natural like throwing a football. I think the major thing to getting it right is to start close like 5 to 8 feet away from your target. Also focusing more on smothly swiping downward at first rather than trying to apply a huge amount of counter spin, you don't really need much until you get up to like 15-20 feet throws. It also might help to start throwing at a target that's more downward than you would normally at first because the gravity will help you out till you can get a feel for the slide/flick motion. After that it's just practicing. Also for a middle ground military half spin is kind of halfway between the two styles where you throw from the blade and use your palm and thumb to control the spin. Just what I found useful in case you were interested in trying it out again, not saying spin throw isn't just as fun a hobby since that's what its all about these days thankfully.
"Shuriken" isn't really a weapon, but a technique - it literally translates to "thrown sword" - famously utilized by Miyamoto Musashi as a surprise weapon, which netted him quite a few duel victories. He was ambidextrous and used his left hand to throw his wakizashi while the opponent was charging at him, usually to a lethal effect. Also, he was known to finish of a running enemy by throwing his regular katana as a spear into the enemy's back. How much of that is legend and how much actually happened is not clear, but the guy was a no-nonsense guy when it came to dueling and it's really fun to read up on his exploits.
What aren't legends are the entire community except thagne and matt Easton. Everyone else is average level garbage! If I got a person who was a bit more physically able and less skilled. They would still defeat these weak nerds.
@pensive_cube correct me if i'm wrong, but i think you may be misunderstanding shuriken a bit. the ken part of shuriken doesn't literally translate as "sword", and the kanji for ken is often pronounced differently in other weapons' names. the kanji for ken usually refers to weapons that have curved, single edged blades. for example, naginatas are polearms with curved, single edged blades, and the kanji used to write naginata is the same for the katana, a sword famous for being curved and single edged. if you're interested to learn more about this, here is a video done by a language professor who is fluent in japanese and japanese kanji who better explains it: ua-cam.com/video/8KIb3YYQMrM/v-deo.html . if i remember correctly, which i may not, the shuri part of shuriken would most accurately be translated as hidden, hence, "hidden blade". and on the whole word shuriken not being a weapon, but meaning "thrown sword" is also incorrect. shuriken are weapons, but the word shurikenjutsu is a martial art focused on shuriken, and literally translates to "hidden blade technique".
There is a medieval European sword and dagger manuscript that have several dagger throws in it. The throwing knives actually used in combat were not our modern small sport knives.
While I certainly agree with many of your points, I wouldn't completely discount this as a valid attack, especially in the emergency cases you alluded to. It can be done very accurately, to greatly devastating effect. And a thinner "spike" only makes it lighter and more effective, while still letting you have enough meat on the knife to grind in a proper blade for general use. Keep up the good work, I love watching your vids!
I've actually resorted to using one in a duel for fun. My sword got snapped at the hilt so I quickly jabbed them with the hilt, they stepped back due to being caught off guard, and in that time I pulled a rubber one from my pocket, and tossed it at them before they could finish stepping back in range. (Admittedly, it being half that size helped since it was so easy to pull from the pocket - underhanded close range throw immediately from my pocket.)
Wait, how did your sword snap in the first place? Were you using styrofoam swords or what? If it was made of steel, you should cease the combat since it creates a lethal edge that would normally be safeguarded.
I think Shad got very close when talking about the “specific situation” where throwing knives would be effective. But I think looking at how effective they are in use is the wrong angle to understand their usefulness. I think the primary usefulness is that they simply are a ranged weapon and they can be dangerous. Imagine Shad wants to get past Ozzy (I hope that’s the right spelling) and Ozzy has a good defensive position. They both are unarmoured, with arming swords. Ozzy can wait for Shad to come to him and have the advantage of the defensive position. Shad doesn’t want to fight there, but has no choice but to engage, to get past. If Shad also has throwing knives, he has another option. When he pulls one, Ozzy has a choice. He can let Shad have a free shot, or charge in, losing his defensive advantage. He may know that Shad is unlikely to do much damage, but he’s still throwing a knife at him. Of course, there’s no guarantee Ozzy will charge, but it’s made more likely by the threat of the throwing knives. Shad doesn’t actually have to throw a knife, at all (though he can still probably get at least one free throw) for it to be useful in this situation. That’s just one example, but it’s not hard to imagine a situation where the threat of any thrown weapon might tip the balance.
He is also using what amounts to practice throwing knives. Those were made for sports. They never saw any use in actual combat. Real throwing knives, while still not super useful, or commonly used, had far more weight to them. In the hands of someone that actually knew how to use them properly, even if you blocked, they could still maim, or at least temporarily disable or hinder a limb.
This is what light throwing weapons have traditionally been for - a very light and small tool that simply gives you a small extra advantage above your actual weapon, that gives your enemy one more thing they have to care about. And since most people would have just had a few knives on them in general, it's not that big a stretch to make those knives just a bit better balanced and weighted. They compare to heavier throwing weapons such as hatchets and javelins, which historically have been used on the charge to disrupt the enemy before you use your main weapon. Hatchets in particular stand out, since we have so many documented examples of them being highly effective in skilled hands. Throwing knives would be useful in everyday situations. If you are being unexpected attacked of course your first defense is to run, and throwing out an unexpected knife at your attackers will be surprising and distracting - helpful to get you a few seconds to run, and it will slow down your pursuers as now every time you round a corner they have to be prepared to face a knife the other way. Redundant to a modern handgun, of course.
*THROW DAGGERS ARE TERRIBLE WEAPONS BUT GREAT STEALTH TOOLS :* 1) Feint throw to the head then pause, and after the enemy moves to dodge retarget the spot they are moving towards THEN throw. 2) Immediately after you throw you either run forward and tackle through your opponent or run away entirely 3) Before being sighted, throw one at a pot or window, to cause a noise distraction and then sneak out 4) Douse one in oil, light it on fire then throw it into walls to create fire or into flammable materials to cause panic 5) Leave one in the path of an enemy, then hide for a free head shot when he drops down to collect it 6) Use them as steppers to scale high walls (stab them between the bricks then climb on them) 7) Attach one to the end of a chain and swing it around to ward of several attackers or to block incoming missiles aimed at you. 8) Throw to bait a shield raise, then attack the legs with a takedown and disarm if you have no other options To name a few ;) Mispent youth...
So... are you implying that throwing daggers are something you should naturally be carrying along with an arming sword WITHOUT armor or shields on a regular basis? That it would be relatively common practice to get good enough at using them as a potentially deadly weapon... rather than a bow or sling? Or is it really just a fringe situation that people have blown out of proportion due to how it falls into rule of cool-and-sometimes-possible?
Honestly - I once knew two historical reenactors, who were practicing to perform the scene from Lord of the Rings, where the Uruk throws a knife at Aragorn, who chops it out of the air with his sword and they managed to pull it off relatively consistently. They were never hurt, but that is mainly because the guy throwing them knew how to properly do so and never threw the knife at the other, instead throwing it to one of his sides. So yeah - you could totally dodge a knife, if your reflexes and agility were good enough, but you still shouldn't ever throw them at anyone (saying this just in case someone is getting ideas because of the above). Also - I agree that they are mainly a distraction. For example - let's say there is a chaotic melee (a skirmish, for example) where you have managed to overcome your opponent and see your mate struggling with theirs, so you chug a knife at that opponent to throw them off, maybe even take an eye. But like I said already - if the opponent knows you're throwing a knife at them, it is improbable you will actually wound them, because they can be struck out of the air.
I used them in LARP for years alongside a bastard sword. Effective even in combat IF you can no-spin and underarm. Sheaves on shoulders, hips and small of the back. These were foam and duct tape and still hit home. Never throw just one if the opponent is aware of it, always use it to offend an area. Opponents will either move from or move their defences to that area. Put something pointy in the new area of attack, result. Start to think of them as one shot pikes you can put in your pocket and they become very useful.
Thye great legend of Bushido Musashi Miyamoto was said to be an expert at trowing knifes, shurikens and even his katana (of wich he carried two) since he was an specialist at battling one against many. Aztec knights carried usually 3-5 atlatl javelins, they were very light made of reed and featers, with an obsidian head and had insanely long range and piercing power.
I think that is legit an often overlooked aspect in fantasy. Entertainment. Throwing some knives at a tree can be a good pastime to stave off boredom. Being able to entertain some guests at a bar improves your reputation AND can earn you some money. Or at least a few free drinks.
Love this! I would love to see an underrated historical weapons episode about the Sling! Lightweight, high damage, incredible accuracy, and all for the same material cost as a single belt. Definitely underrated
High skill required and not practical to use from tight formations... Not surprising that in practical military use didn't get traction throwing spears or bows did, even if effective.
@@michaelearl6765 The Greeks, Spaniards, some Romans, and some other parts of the Mediterranean and Mideast got pretty good with using them as battle weapons. The accuracy was limited, but when used with a cast lead slug or bullet could have the same hitting power as that of a handgun. (Not the same as penetrating power, but the weight of it could crack a skull or rib if not using adequate armor.) Since they were relatively cheap/simple they were more of a skirmisher or secondary weapon than something with more specialization or prestige like learning archery.
@@pauljs75 Actually, most slingers were highly accurate, as they'd been doing it all their lives. I remember that formations were never an issue either because they could rotate people as they skirmished.
26:50 I think throwing knives can be decent in close combat situations (for example in an inn or something like that) were you have one dagger/knife and another throwing one. You could switch extremely fast between throwing the one knife and then going on the offensive. That's about the best use I could think off when it comes to actually throwing a perfectly fine knife
Throwing knives are obviously designed for subtlety, not the battlefield. Also helps to actually know how to throw them properly (Shad!) and actually putting a bit of power into the throw (Shad!)
Here it is. If you are at war you should be carrying 3 types of knives, a survival knife, a small knife for eating, and a combat knife. Modern soldiers have the KBar that does all of it...but with this you can have a knife that can be thrown as well as all those other things. Very versatile. Also, there are more straight throwing methods for knife throwing and usually mostly done at max 10m and the various versions of them through history come in at times of ranged weaponry transitions. Mostly where reload times of the prevailing ranged weapons require a reloading time where a quickly deployed thrown weapon improves your ability to close the gap. Those transition times also coincide with time where armor was also in transition due to the advantages of the ranged weapons. Not the most effective thing in the world, but a really effective tool if employed exactly as you described. The most common use of thrown knives is to cover a retreat (same as shuriken were used by historical ninja), even if you miss the knives will find purchase in the mud and eventually the feet of your pursuers (since if you are running there is probably 1/2 and army on your ass). Learning to throw a knife while maintaining your run is actually no the hardest thing and can be done without being forced to present an open target, also very good for use from ambush, create a distant distracting sound, killing and skinning rabbits...but no, there were never and will never be a real primary weapon of any import.
@@johan.ohgren but it would be much more effective if you laced it with poison or hallucinogens, so if your good at chemistry or have pharmaceutical knowledge you can make a wounding weapon into a useful tool to disable/disorient or kill your opponent slowly
The throwing knife's role is entertainment. In showy circus stunts. And it fills that role very well. They are optimized for it, even, in ways that make them lag as lethal combat weapons. Hard to use effectively? Good, less competition. Ringmaster can't just pull a chump off the street to do your job. Not super-lethal? That miscalculation while practicing your latest stunt has better odds of meaning a first-aid kit or a hospital visit instead of a funeral. Easy to see flying through the air? Well, yes, that's what the crowd is paying to see; a held moment of drama. Expensive? Meh, pay a premium. You're not gonna lose them; they're in that board with the target circle over there.
They still work as pretty good normal knives too. For when that lion tamer didn't tame the lion so well, you're one of the few people in the ring with a weapon.
Throwing weapons is one of the two topics I've been wanting Shad to cover, I'm glad he covered this. The over topic I would like to see is poison tipped weapons.
I know others have said this, but the Thorn method is a "no-spin" or "half-spin" method that I've had lots of success with, even with some modern combat knives not made for throwing. Definitely worth looking into, since I myself cannot (consistently) stick a knife through spinning, but can with no-spin throws.
Basically the only area I've used throwing knives in any of my game design concepts is when someone needs a highly concealable weapon. Because they are relatively simple in design, and can be quite flat, they are easier in some ways to conceal than a war dart. Though it's still basically a weapon that is exclusive to the 'sneaky' roguish types. Anyone else who wants a thrown weapon I tend to give something heavier and more lethal such as a tomahawk or javelin. And even that only if they have some justifiable reason for not wanting/being able to use a bow or crossbow. Edit: Oh, I also gave a small satchel of throwing knives to a psion character who specializes in telekinetic attacks. So that's one other situation where I felt they made sense.
Hi Shad, when i was in the army (20 years ago) i used to practice alot with throwing knives and i become very good at it. I could throw them very fast and very accurate, i used to throw them at trees, and i tthrew them so hard that they would stuck very deep in the tree, which means that they have very good penetration. Throwing knives can be very effective and lethal weapons, and it takes only few weeks to master them
Shuriken were typically as a distraction or general nuisance to the enemy. I’ve also heard of them being used as a landmine, stuck in the ground in thick grass or covered with brush.
@@randomperson4198 a shuriken would have enough cutting surface to make a nasty laceration and possibly sever a toe. a caltrop's geometry makes sure one spike points upward, maximizing force. a ball of spikes would be the gentlest possible way to pierce someone, since the spikes are all arranged in a nice sphere and redistribute the force over a large area.
I think probably the strongest point is that if you're going to be carrying a knife _anyway,_ choosing one that's well-balanced for throwing on the off-chance that it might come in handy is probably not going to hurt anything.
I'm beginning to think that Shad is confusing "Starting a family" with "Creating an army". At this rate his house will have it's own armored militia in a few years.
One of my earliest memories is of our cat bringing a copperhead on the porch as a gift, except it was still alive. My older brother about 16 at the time very quickly retrieved and threw a knife through the head of the snake pinning it to the porch. I might be a bit biased but since then I've always been convinced that if someone knows what they're doing, throwing knives can be a helluva tool.
I agree with your assessment that they were used as a distraction. Either to create distance or to open a window of opportunity to close distance. Musashi suggested throwing his wakazashi and then closing distance and striking with his katana
Indeed. But the problem is you can throw any knife like that, not specificaly throwing one. Or indeed even a rock. And it will still be a distraction. Musashi is the example of this. But throwing knife is better than a regular stick or nunchaku or things like that. It's still a knife. Who says you have to throw it every time? And if you have 2 - 3 throwing knives on you, you can throw one, and use your second one as a close combat option.
It's funny how morden world think katana is a combat weapon but in actual past they were nothing more than show piece to signify royalty, status and need very high maintenance. They were only used either in small scale fighting like self protection against robbery, assault by other person or in fast execution of surrendered enemies or guilty by higher authority person.
@@kindle184 not sure if the usefulness of a katana is in question here, it was more a statement about using feints and distraction techniques to break an opponents guard, such as a thrown secondary weapon. I bring Mushashi up because he had lots to say on the subject, and happened to duel with a sword.
@@Member_zero Good points. I suspect the term "throwing knife" was an ad hoc title to describe a knife that you can afford to throw away (perhaps not a refined implement?). But I absolutely agree, it doesn't have to be one.
I've worked for an axe throwing range and threw a bunch of throwing knives as well. I'll try to answer a few of your points: - After a while, you do get used to the distance you need with your technique. So you can have a subconscious idea of the right distance. Generally, if you miss the first throw (against an immobile target), you can easily readjust because you know whether you were too far or too close and by how much, so the next throws are all good. -In terms of damage, you are correct, knives have to be perfectly thrown for lethality. I would highly suggest throwing axes for damage, these also have enough weight to deal damage even if you miss the blade during the throw. -About the situation where you could throw one as a last ditch effort to save someone, I will actually have to downplay the usefulness of throwing knives compared to other weapons. Once you get used to throwing wepons, you can throw pretty much anything correctly if it is stiff enough. At my job, when there were no clients, we would throw axes, two-handed axes, machetes, knives, spears, kukris, a halberd (I own a voulge), etc. I even managed to stick a modern hammer to a target, I had to throw it in a way where the back of the hammer (the prybar part) would strike the target and penetrate. The hammer was definitely the most precis I ever had to throw something, it is much harder than throwing knives. The only thing I had trouble throwing correctly was swords, and that was because they are too flexible and will wobble a bit when thrown. So as long as something is stiff enough to not wobble, you can throw it if you understand the weight distribution. Throwing knives would be useful in a last ditch effort to save someone, but if I'm honest almost every other weapon would do so better. If however you want to keep your main weapon no matter what, then having throwing knives would serve well as a back-up weapon for that purpose. -I agree about the distraction aspect. People don't like getting sharpened metal things thrown at them. - They are really fun to throw!
one thing that REALLY should've been brought up is no (1/4) spin throwing- the knife does not spin, flies mostly straight which makes (short to medium) range damage much more reliable (and is much easier to learn)
I actually think having a few knives made to be throwable, as well as being regular hunting/campfire tools, with proper practice, could be incredibly useful in a fight. With proper spin techniques, the knife *wont* spin much, if at all. before reaching the target. Would it do a lot of damage? No, it might cause a minor scratch or put someone off. But with poisons or a quick follow up, it could be incredibly effective. I don't think it works as a primary weapon, but as a *tool* or *option* I think it could be invaluable to have extra ones. Importantly, you'd want to make sure you aren't just giving your opponent a weapon to use against you, so making sure they're personalized would matter a touch, meaning they wouldn't be a great option to arm a general infantry with, but elite soldiers or mercenaries could get use out of them I think. For a bit of an anecdote, when I was in elementary (primary) school, I was at a friend's house. He had these plastic shurikens. They had rings on them to prevent injury, but we took those off cause we were stupid kids. My friend ended up throwing one at me as we were playing, and it stabbed into my arm. Extremely minor cut, I didn't even really need much of a bandage, but it still bled. If made of metal, it could have been a lot worse- but it's a fine conceptual proof. A thrown weapon can cause minor injuries, which can get you the edge you need in a close fight. Even just that bit of pain can be enough.
You should never rely on such a weapon in a real fight, certainly not for causing real damage. A wrench set would provide cheaper heavier more powerful throwing missiles that work regardless of a point forward hit. That said, I think I can make several good cases for their inclusion as a defence tool. I won't bore you with the details but there's at least a dozen really good reasons to use these as other things that are not weapons. Practical uses that do not require any skill timing strength or anything else.
@@DailyCorvid I think you misunderstood completely. Relying on such a thing- like relying on any single tactic without flexibility- is a bad idea yes. But having an *option* for a weapon or technique that , with proper practice, can be dangerous is never a bad thing. The reason you'd use a knife over something ridiculous like a wrench is because of it's uses as a tool, aerodynamics, possible injuries, and weight/ease of carry. yes, a wrench is a tool, but I don't think many knights, footsoldiers, or similar have a use for a wrench. It's certainly not aerodynamic and predictable when thrown, and it's heavy, badly weighted, and not exactly small.
@@A5tr0101 First off, armor is not foolproof nor all encompassing, or worn at all times. Second, obviously a greatsword will do more damage than a throwing knife, and more reliably when you land said strike. But clearly you didn't actually read or care for any nuance that was stated in my original post, so I'll leave it at a very simple question and answer. Does a man with a greatsword beat a man with a greatsword who has a knife lodged 2 inches into his elbow? The answer: Not always, but he has a serious advantage now doesn't he?
Knife throwing is easily one of my favorite weapon topics simple because i think of all the different kinds of knives i've seen, historical and modern, real and fantasy, and i imagine all the different ways they would all fly in various different throws. i'm a blade enthusiast but knifes are my favorite subject so i really feel at home in your videos on the topic. Loved the video and i have nothing to dispute, but i will recommend another youtuber who could probably paint a better picture. Adam Celadin is an amazing knife thrower whose videos could give you a lot more insight to what i think is called "Instinctive knife throwing". In his videos, Adam is often using either dead trees as targets or places out his own in various positions and angles, using the natural terrain to his advantage/disadvantage and runs or jumps in from several different directions to throw a variety of knives. he talks about how to count and feel the distance for spinning throws and how to throw with less or more spin for targets both closer and farther away. He talks about many different throwing techniques, how some ways are easier than others, and how to become better at one or more. most notably, he teaches the "no-spin throw" which i think you'll have some interesting thoughts on.
@@AdamCeladin The man himself! You're very welcome, always happy to spread this knowledge and skill. Please tell me this may lead to where i hope it does, it would be absolutely epic!
@@AdamCeladin So you did, and i somehow did'nt watch it until now. Fantastic video as always and a great response! I did hope for a full meetup collab but this is plenty. Cant wait to see what both of you do next!
I have always thought of throwing knives as a distraction to dissuade people from chasing you, much like caltrops, shuriken, egg-shell bombs and the like.
Fun fact: Kunai were actually primarily used as a trowel, and in case of ninja to make holes in a wall etc. Ninja sharpened them to use also as a makeshift weapon, and while they could be thrown they were more commonly used like a regular dagger.
@@Shadeius my old sensai told me that the types of knives used in this video could also be stabbed into trees and used as foot holds for climbing, don’t know how true that is 😆
Some Russians in particular are fairly infamous for their love to use them as surprise close-range weapons... With your opponent approaching with, say, a regular knife (or just open hands or fists or whatever), draw that hidden throwing knife and throw it in one smooth move when they're about 1m or so away and getting ready to slice or stab you. No dodging, no blocking, and at that distance, pretty much impossible to miss. Basically, really dirty streetfighting weapons.
Hi Shad! Loved the video, you bring up a lot of good points. I've been practicing Kali for the past two years where we fight using knives quite a bit, and we've explored and practiced throwing them quite a lot (although we mainly do try and hang on to them). In my experience, we do occasionally throw them, but only under very specific circumstances. The main problem is that if you throw a knife from more than a few feet away, it is very possible for a trained opponent to dodge it, block it with a shield, or even knock it aside with a sword. I've seen it done many times. You can, however, throw them from very short distances. The only use we've found is that if you throw a knife at very close range it can be useful because it's unexpected and difficult to counter. The idea is that when you're in melee combat, but maintaining distance and don't want to get in too close to avoid into a grapple with the knives, it can be useful to quickly pitch the knife at the opponent from about a meter away, just out of normal range of a one-handed melee weapon. It uses just a quarter spin so that it will always hit right on the point. It's actually quite easy to get good penetration into an unarmored or lightly armored target from that range, with just a little bit of practice. You can do it with longer weapons as well, although the weight is a bit different. Of course, this only works if you have another weapon, since once you throw it you don't have it anymore, but knives are small enough that we often practice carrying two or three of them so that you can just quickly draw another while guarding yourself with your a second weapon or a shield in the other hand. In terms of whether anyone would actually do it in warfare, it seems unlikely. Ideally I would rather just have a longer weapon like a javelin. But if I just happened to have a knife for some other purpose, or was carrying something small for self-defense, then I would absolutely consider throwing it under the right circumstances, since if I'm at about a meter I can pretty consistently hit the heart, which could be effective depending on what sort of weapons an attacker might have. I would never throw it at the kind of distances you were trying though. At that point you're better off hanging onto it and just moving in to fight closer or else running away if that's an option.
That is an amazingly interesting reply! My only point of concern would be why someone would just happen to have a dagger(s) on their person (added weight) and would they be able to usefully incorporate them at a moments' notice in combat; like, are they so easy to grab from wherever they are stored and does the person have to drop shield/weapon just to get it. (I expect the answer to both can certainly be "yes", but feel that it would still be a rather rare situation in real life.)
@@JarieSuicune It's not so much that a person would be carrying a sword and shield and then put one down to grab a dagger. It's more that a person might have a dagger for some other purpose, either for its utility or for self-defense. Simply put, I don't carry a sword around all the time, because it would be difficult to conceal, heavy, and generally a pretty weird thing to do. But could I carry a folding knife or even a small fixed-blade knife around on my person? Totally! (Speaking as someone from the USA where this is legal and in some places quite normal) Of course, I would always rather have a weapon like a sword as compared to a knife, and if I had a longer weapon then there would be no reason why I would be reaching for a dagger (unless the weapon was one-handed and I didn't have a shield). But sometimes, for either legal or cultural reasons, carrying around a larger weapon is impractical. So in that case a person might only have a smaller dagger, or perhaps would have a one-handed weapon and a free hand that could draw a dagger. And when you have a small, expendable weapon like a dagger, then it may be worthwhile to throw it from very close range if there is a good opening and an opponent doesn't expect it. That's also why I said it is unlikely medieval soldiers would have done this on the battlefield, as they would be potentially dropping a more useful piece of equipment such as a shield in order to hold a dagger in one hand. It may have happened sometimes, I know that people used things like parrying daggers in conjunction with rapiers in the 16th century. You could make an argument for throwing those I suppose. But I'm not personally familiar with any major conflicts in which that sort of fighting style was common.
They never brought up the historicity of throwing knives and how people may have actually used small concealed throwing weapons in combat. The ninja *_(which we actually know nothing about because a lot of the information we have about ninjas was either created at some point to exist as part of a deliberate misinformation campaign or created at some point much later based on the mystery of the ninja in their time period)_* used throwing weapons as tools of distraction. Let's say there are a bunch of guys with swords hanging out some place where you don't want them to hang out. You throw a bunch of knives at them and run into the woods when they try to chase you down. While they're chasing you down your buddy is able to take care of whatever business they had to take care of that they didn't want those guys around to see. This is a rough example of how some historians thought ninjas would use throwing weapons or shuriken. Other examples include the administration of poison at a distance or just having an object on hand that you could throw in an assailant's face in a fight. In India they have chakrams. Those were used in war but off the top of my head I believe they were also used by shepherds to chase off wild animals. Throwing weapons aren't useful weapons because they're not particularly good at killing people. However, they could've been useful tools if your goals were something other than violence for the sake of killing. This is the same as the nunchuck debate. Nunchuks were invented for when you wanted a weapon on your person but you had to be some place where swords weren't permitted. If you analyze a weapon/tool for a purpose it wasn't intended for then of course you're going to come to the conclusion that it's not useful, you're looking at it through the wrong lens. It's a little bit like evaluating a screwdriver on its merit as a hammer.
"people may have actually used small concealed throwing weapons in combat"... May have. Your argument is based on a possibility. Which, sure, it IS a possibility, and almost definitely DID happen from time to time. But to assume that automatically means it was viable enough to be a MAJOR or NOTABLE condition? Seriously? "Nunchuks were invented for when you wanted a weapon on your person but you had to be some place where swords weren't permitted." Source? I have never heard that claim ever. Also, why would you spend SO MUCH TIME mastering Nunchucks when you could take a staff, club, etc. non-sword weapon that was much easier to learn and obtain?
@@JarieSuicune the nunchaku debate isn’t really relevant and it’s a debate in historical circles as well, but you can still break it down logically. Long sticks are cumbersome, they become more compact if you break them in half. Attaching both lengths by chain retains the reach of having a long stick. As a weapon, its only advantage is convenience. If you’re evaluating its effectiveness as a weapon it’s subpar, but if you evaluate other aspects of its design then it seems more advantageous. It’s not a question of usefulness, but applicability. Also, just read your first paragraph back to yourself. If we can agree that people in history likely did something, then we can agree that there must have been a reason for it. We may not agree about what that reason is, but we must agree that a reason must exist. People in history weren’t stupid, they mostly acted rationally and logically. At times we just don’t relate to that logic and rationale. If people in history threw knives as weapons, then they had to think it was useful. If we determine that throwing knives weren’t more useful as weapons than other alternatives then we must look elsewhere to explain their behavior. As an aside, throwing knives likely didn’t exist as weapons in history. The items Shad has in the video and the methods he used to apply them likely do not resemble anything that was applied in combat throughout history. However, people did engage into combat with small hand-thrown projectiles. We can extrapolate reasons as to why. It’s likely that the primary reasons were not related to how good they were at killing people.
@@ChristophBrinkmann But what if I don't want to carry two sticks? What if I want to carry a long stick but I don't want one of my hands full when I walk around? This is what I'm talking about, it doesn't make any sense to bring up tangentially relevant information and pretend it actually comes into play when you don't actually think about it beyond trying to use the information to service your point. Nunchuks are bad weapons, that doesn't mean we can't analyze their use cases from a historical educational perspective. You guys are so busy meming on it that it's not fun anymore for people who'd rather engage in the dialogue. It's fine to go along with the meme, but some people are just trying to engage with the conversation.
"Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it." Plus, as Shad pointed out, more likely to have a knife (not just specifically-made throwing knives) in your equipment, seeing as how it's a multi-purpose tool.
I think there might another situation when you could use them: when you're just dealt finishing blow to someone with a sword and you see another enemy drawing a bow and you know you don't have time to get behind a cover
@@Juanito_Pecados are you carrying rocks in your pocket? or do you have to first find a rock, bend over picking it up, then standing back up to then throw and charge? that sounds like you're getting stuck with an arrow before you can throw the rock, the knife is at least already on your hip and a lot faster and smoother to grab and throw.
Adam Celandin (world champion knife thrower) has made a response video to this! Exciting! He has some awesome content also and great tips if anyone wants to learn knife throwing.
Shad: "I found these throwing knives that are much better than the normal ones" _they are bloody kunai_ Also, you are thinking this the wrong way. Throwing daggers serve best as distractions when retreating or escaping. That's what Shuriken were used for, worst they can do is hit an eye and thus immobilise someone (possibly blinding them permanently).
@@kangarumpy Yes I did. Chad focuses on their lethality and even when mentioning distraction, it's as an alternative backup during combat. I'm saying they were not *meant* to be used in combat, they are Ninja weapons. It would be nice if Shad looked at weapons from more viewpoints than that of a medieval adventurer.
Now I’m imagining someone like Shad advising the studio responsible for Arcane on the combat for Jax, the weapon master who limits himself by only using shitty and/or improvised weapons.
As you continue this seemingly unintentional 'reviews of classic ninja weapons' series of , I'd love to see Rope Darts examined. I really wonder if it will end up in the same category as Nunchauks given the capacity to injure the user.
I'd say the Rope Dart (or if we're talking about ninja tools, we're more likely talking about the kusari) is not the best as a weapon, but has good utility in that it's basically a rope and a small knife put together. I'd argue the kusarigama is a fairly good weapon though. It's a Kama, a farming sickle repurposed and later rebuilt as a weapon, which is not the hardest thing to use, it certainly cuts which is good, and the angle of the blade allows for deep puncture and gash wounds with each swing that can probably go through some lighter armors. And then it also has a long metal chain on opposite end to the blade. It doesn't really offer much in terms of lethal force, but you can bind opponents with it to restrict and somewhat control their movement or flat-out strangle them at a slight distance.
I mean, it’s basically a knife that you can retrieve more easily when thrown that has rotation centered around you as opposed to the knive’s center of mass. As long as you don’t whip it around I’d go with slightly behind a dagger, since you have the rope to deal with, and safely reeling it in for melee and transferring the rope is probably too slow to be practical. This comes from a guy who has messed with tennis ball mock up and used a tie down as an analogue while wearing a motorcycle helmet and similar protection. It’s not complete shit, but you would be better served with just a sling, a knife, and a pocket of large pebbles.
Adam Celandin (world champion knife thrower) has made a response video to this! Exciting! He has some awesome content also and great tips if anyone wants to learn knife throwing.
@@claylilac Short kusarigama (800-1600mm overall length) are very underrated. They are easily carried/concealed, rapidly deployed, and can do considerable damage, change of application/uses during a conflict, extend reach yet do not leave a close-range hole such as spears and long-swords/sticks; they do lack in the 'stabbing/thrusting' dept, and are shite for throwing, but are very good in many other ways; also given even a slim chance/range someone adept at suddenly whipping around a weight on the end of a chain/cord is quite unnerving. In an average situation, rooms/corridors, scrub/vegetation, not too-cramped melee, they have much to recommend them. Kama, while good in unarmoured/close combat, have seriously injured practitioners in training due to the unfortunate accidental snagging that comes with the deliberate proximal movements used; as the cutting edge is 'inwards' the movements tend to be cross-body and hooking in nature. Kama remind me more of an extended form of a karambit (itself, I suspect, a re-purposed form of hand-sickle). I'd like to see Shad, using his 'medieval swords/pole-arms', go up against someone adept with Chinese war-sword and naginata etc.
I always thought this would be assassins weapons. As you said, armor would render this pretty useless, but if you are aiming for a civilian target, this ones could work really well. You need to get somewhere close to aim, but you already need this to confirm your target in most cases. A civilian with no armor get's hit in the neck or some other vital organ ( or the knife is poisoned ), dies, and because there is some distance between you and him, you can now run away and escape with some margin of advantage. Add to this a note tied at the end of the knife, and you have a perfect "medieval mafia" scenario. This would also solve the "it wouldn't be economical to lose so many knifes" because an assassin can probably hit the target with only one or two, and i'm sure a bounty for killing would easily outweight the cost of the weapon.
Came here to say the same thing. And to add to "PleasantThoughs" comment about keeping it hidden, it is also easier to carry. If you are looking for a "ranged" weapon and you need to climb over things, and sneak to an awkward vantage point, carrying a bow or a spear would be challenging. Allows discretion, not cumbersome, silent, lethal for a non-armored unexpecting target, can be used from hiding (ranged)... sounds like a good assassin weapon. Sure a plumbata would do that too, but that assumes you are in a setting where people know about plumbatas... and I certainly hadn't heard of those before now.
Lmao what Throwing knife won't kill anyone, at least 99% of the time lol Not to mention low accuracy and range makes them completely useless for assassinations
@@Archimedes.5000 there are techniques that make them highly accurate with the cost of a bit of range by reducing how much they spin idk what your talking about to be honest they more lethal then only 1% yes without poison you have to hit a artery and cause heavy bleeding to kill someone but most assassins use poisons to point in fantasy setting you could prick someone with a tooth pick and kill them with a strong enough dose of poison (i think even some real world ones are that strong but don't know how long they last in open air and all that)
@@reddragon9064 "highly accurate" compared to usual knife thowing techiques, not to other projectile weapons like bows, crossbows or even darts And sorry but poisoning someone is usually not as easy as just grazing someone with a "poison coated" knife, especially if your opponent isn't completely naked
So my first issue with this is, like others have commented, no spin or straight throwing is preferable as not only is the tip far more likely to hit your throw also wont be losing any momentum from the spin. Secondly, knives like this simply arent practical for long to mid range use. Its just not their forte. The real use and practicality of these knives is in close to mid range combat. Basically if youre in a knife fight, and you have a throwing knife that you can quickly and reliably throw, youre not losing that fight in any situation short of were you mess up or your opponent knows what youre up to. Really these knives should be used to replace a knife that would otherwise be used for close combat self defense. Theyre decent knives as just knives, and the shape and packaging of the knives makes it so theres not much difference between concealing one and concealing three on you. In a close combat fight were you can take someone out from a few feet away with an unexpected and unforseen throw is a huge advantage. Being able to no spin throw from multiple angles of movement is also essential as it could be done in the heat of a fight. Outside a knife vs knife fight being able to reliably impale someone from, for me personally, say about seven or eight feet away is a huge advantage against other weapons that would otherwise be primarily used for melee with a range of three to five feet at most typically. If you want to see this in action i can send you a demonstration video. Im no expert but i think even at my level you can see the advantage of it
Let's break this down. First of all, I agree that throwing knives are a "cool factor weapon", that have little to no place in a battlefield context. I am also writing this comment while watching and pausing the video, so I might sound repetitive or point things out that Shad is already aware of. Point number 1 "There are a lot of bad (lightweight) knives." Well there are a lot of crappy wall hanger swords. As toys they are fun and cool but nobody with any martial experience is going to use them over good quality weapons. Point #2 "They are more dodge-able." Yes, and it is my opinion that a throwing knife is best used within 2-5 paces to force your opponent to doge/flinch and lose momentum or stance. It would be an opening move with a fallow up tactic, that could very well inflict an injury on your opponent before you enter a melee conflict. Point #3 "Much slower velocity" Yes generally. But speed can improve with skill and knives can be thrown much faster at closer targets "2-5 paces". Also consider how small and simple the knife is compared to javelins, arrows, and even a throwing axe. It is a short length of steel with a pointy end. Pretty easy to come by, and pretty easy to conceal. The Plumbata is a decent comparison, definitely having the upper hand when it comes to thrown lethality, but it is slightly more complex an object and lacks any other meaningful utility that a knife might have. Point #4 "short range." Valid point when comparing to range weapons. Nul point when compared to melee weapons. As previously stated I agree that the throwing knife is not very useful outside of a few paces distance. But it can be a great tactical tool in a system that includes more tools. Point #5 "ninja stars are extra dumb throwing knives." Yes Point #6 "Why waste a knife by throwing it?" 2-5 paces. And throwing knives can be a balance of utility and specialized. Some models are simply spikes, some are basically daggers with throwing ergonomics. If you are rich, why not throw a few knives? If you are poor, you can use a sharpened skrewdriver. Point #7 "Are they as bad as nunchucks?" No, not in any world. They beat a stick of the same size, and they are better than nothing. They may have slip/ergonomic issues when used in melee, but they don't often hurt their user. I will concede that if you only had one and no other weapon and some force of nature was keeping you from using it in melee, then it would only be slightly better than having nothing... But that's a ridiculous scenario that we don't even see in fantasy depictions. Point #7 "It takes too much skill to be lethal" True. But I would say that the throwing knife takes minimal skill to give you a meaningful advantage in a melee struggle. When distance is closing you can stop, slow, deter, distract, and/or mame your enemy before it comes to blows. Then your second knife can go into his vitals by hand. If you can stick a screwdriver in the ground 2 paces in front of you you can stick a knife into a person. I understand that under fear and adrenaline this would become more difficult, but so would anything technical. Point #8 "It would not do well against armor." I'm not sure about this one. Plate, yes, it would bounce off. But in my experience, when I have thrown decent throwing knives into wood (not quite maile or gambeson), I have found that they go in deeper than I can stab them into the wood by hand. This makes me question if they are entirely useless against light armor. Point #9 "Could be very good in a specific use." Yep. This is exactly my idea. Consider a non battlefield context, where everyone is equipped with at most a knife or two. Perhaps a city with stringent weapon laws. A throwing knife in that context is a powerful tactical tool, and much more fashionable than a Plumbata, or a rock hanging off your belt. Point #10 "You won't have time." If you don't have time to draw and throw, then you definitely don't have time to draw, string, draw, nock, draw, aim, and shoot. So yes, you would have to be ready to throw before your opponent enters you range. Also I believe the 20 meters is a statistical number that indicates whether or not your opponent reaches you. In this scenario you are anticipating melee combat. Point #11 "They are only useful in specific circumstances." Yes, much like the flail, man catcher, sling, lantern, quarterstaff, sword breaker... Point #12 "They are heavy and a character that uses a lot of them would be weighed down" I agree. 3 knives is more than enough for most knife throwing circumstances. Having a bunch of throwing knives is cool for ultra skilled fantasy characters, but is entirely impractical. Point #13 "Worse than actual battlefield weapons in a battlefield context." Yup. So, for the battlefield warrior, throwing knives? No. For the Medieval urban rogue or crafty dualist? I think yes. For the backyard Ninja? Absolutely!
Point #8 - It's often my main point and I do the live demo for friends, asking them to stab wood with 2 hands the harder they can... Then stick it twice as deep when throwing.
It would be cool to see some tests with some good specialized throwing knives, no/half spin technique, and actual armor. Even just some textiles. Just so long as they don't use the knives from this video. Not ideal throwers.
Infiltration Tool, not a battlefield weapon. Was always my thought. You might use it on a unarmoured foe, who was alerted to your ambush, and it would give you the time needed to draw a proper blade.
I guess, as far as I know, most throwing weapons of similar shape and weight were used for distraction to then attack, but im some contexts I feel that a rock would be equally as useful.
I have had some similar "throwing" knives for a long time. I like to use them as basic utility knives. When camping, several fit in a slim sheath. If one is dull, I have several others to use. So I can put sharpening off until it is more convenient. They are cheap enough, and I have backups, that I don't care if I have to sacrifice one using a knife improperly. They can also be a great distraction tool. Not for combat but for yourself and friends.
These knives seem very portable. Very slim, flat, no crossguard. So keeping two or three around for specific situations could be a good thing for your traveling adventurer?
The fact you're talking about spinning and being primary weapons checked me out. In combat throwing knives were usually blade heavy so they DIDN'T spin, they spun about 180 or 0 degrees depending if they were thrown by blade or grip (different knives, different technique). And yes, they can be dodged, and yes, they can be deflected by armor or shields or whatever, so can anything. The point of knives being thrown is, as far as anyone I know that's been trained to do so, threefold: 1) to put the opponent out of position or stop them for a moment (you're charging someone, they whip a knife at your face, you have to dodge, duck behind your shield, flinch, etc), also known as Suppression (as you note). 2) To inflict an injury that stands a very good chance of getting infected, remembering any foe injured is a foe off the field and with medical care what it was in many ancient fields of war, that's a very good chance of a death or permanent injury. And 3) to assassinate, typically via poison against an unsuspecting, likely unarmored foe. Some would add 4) a knife, with all applicable uses, which has the option to be thrown. They're small, you can carry three on your belt for little bulk, they're easy to smuggle where they're not wanted, EVERYONE carried a knife in some eras and places, and they could let you escape like a Derringer can: nobody expects you to kill with one but the threat is there. There's a reason most militaries still teach people to throw knives (PROPERLY, not this tumbling nonsense). Also, please note unarmored HORSES do not like getting hit in the neck or chest with a knife, especially when they're running full tilt. They're not meant to be primary tools, and ditch the spinning clown throw. Even Jason Statham's character doesn't throw spinning knives. Throwing knives are still in use... plumbata aren't. Throw them straight and you will get a meaty thwack on impact if your arms aren't noodles. And yes, they need training... that's what soldiers do. You get them out fast and you hit a close target, that's their use.
No.. just no. There is no way anyone ever threw knives in real life combat as a legitimate technique. The way you talk about it, makes it sound like you learned everything from Dark Souls.
@@Indeterminite Saying 'nobody ever threw knives' is like saying 'nobody ever used a sidearm'. If you can't see how a sharp object coming at your face tip first will make an effect in combat, then nobody has ever thrown a spear, an axe, a dart, or even in desperation a primary cutting weapon at someone as a legitimate combat technique, nor has anyone ever fired an arrow or ballista bolt, or for that matter a bullet, which is essentially just high speed stabbing with a chemically propelled object. You've also clearly never been stabbed or cut in your life if you don't see how a knife can give you an edge in combat. Sticking a person in the thigh or gashing their face from outside of their reach or forcing them to dodge or deflect the blow all have advantage for you as you close. Get over the spinning clownshow throwing here: real throwing knives fly blade first and usually on a pretty straight trajectory. Oh, and end point: you'll notice nobody volunteered to have a knife thrown at them. You know, because they might get HURT. You think nobody in HISTORY has decided 'hm, hurting people like that could be useful!'? Yeesh, kids.
Giving this a quick thought it seems to me that the point of throwing knives (no pun intended) is to either distract your opponent (as mentioned) or even incapacitate rather than kill them.
In my experience, throwing knives are very difficult to use precisely and consistently (as Shad demonstrated in the beginning of the video). I would be interested in seeing Shad's take on throwing axes (such as the tomahawk). Knives have generally smaller rotations that are influenced by small changes in grip and release and ultimately have less mass. Throwing an axe generally involves a larger rotation that allows for more precise estimation of how it will land. Even on the case of over/under rotation the mass of an axe when thrown with lethal intent is usually enough to knock a person down.
@@arcanearcher13 Wait, how? Only one side is going to be facing "towards" the target. The other is always facing away. Or is the other blade on the opposite end of the shaft?? Because that sounds like a nightmare to try to wield or even carry around effectively.
Kyle to throw a knife right for competition or combat you are using one of the methods of no spin. Yes most people when they attempt the throw a knife spin the hell out of it just like shad did and wonder why its not working. More the knife spins less time the point is on target. Correctly thrown in the different no spin methods the point is on target from 25% to 80% of the throwing distance. Yes combat taught methods did go closer to 80% on target. Yes been point on target for 80% of distance does give a lot of + and -. The common combat item taught to be thrown using no spin is the metal crossbow bolt(yes in the historic training manuals) and the japan weapon that looks the same as in being a round bar with a point. Yes you been over run with crossbow you have metal bolts instead of loading them when attacker is under 20 meters you throw them done right they are lethal. You are right small changes in grip and release alter how knife/bolt behave not using a no spin method gives you way smaller margin of error. Yes using a spin method you margin of error drops to point that its useless in combat because the target cannot move because you need to know the target exact distance because the point is no on target long enough. The difference between no spin and spin with a knife/bolt is huge. Spinning a knife/bolt in combat is basically equal to telegraphing you attacks with a sword in combat because its not going to work out.
Oh no, Shad is so close to the target they could throw knives at him! I still recommend that Shad read John Flanagan's Ranger's Apprentice. The books are for youth, but in my mind they mark a change in the idea of fantasy. He is not perfect, but he tries so hard to make them historically based. They are cool.
Some thoughts. 1. Dodging something is easy only when you expect it. Keeping a throwing knife hidden till thrown could make it more danherous. 2. One advantage of throwing a knife compared to using it in close combat is: You aren't in close combat. You can use it from up on a tree, while running away to hinder a pursuer, or keep your distance to someone who has no ranged option right now.
Though for running away myself in the sort of classic ninja tradition sense I'd have just preferred caltrops (called the makibishi) or a smokebomb over throwing a knife.
Or throw it to someone who HAS ranged option, for example, aiming at you with crossbow from close distance and you don't want him to shoot this crossbow.
I like the points made here it also makes a lot of sense to have multiple knives as a secondary option maybe just not throw the last one 🤷♂️ and as with any weapon it just requires practice just maybe a little more than some others
Gaijin Goombah has talked about throwing knives and shuriken a bunch of times. They were mainly used as small, concealable hand weapons or tools (kunai like the ones in this video were used more as a small spade or piton, for example), and only thrown as a distraction, either to escape or as part of an ambush, or occasionally to deliver a poison. Really, any weapon that can be defeated by stepping slightly to one side isn't a particularly good weapon, especially in the case of ninjas or assassins, where on top of the other problems now you're leaving _evidence_ behind.
Oh I remember that guy! He helped me learn that Ninjas wouldn’t try or want to get into fights and would wear blue or dark blue or white to blend in and not look suspicious.
Here's my assessment of throwing weapons, having tried mostly throwing an axe. 1) It was fun! 2) It would take LOTS of practice to get consistent even while just standing and throwing at a target much less in real combat while you're both moving. 3) Even if you got really good, I still feel like they'd only be great at specific distances (having to account for the rotation and all, there's always a period in the rotation where the weapon is blunt; this ratio is basically always going to be the same no matter how fast the rotation so you're actually more likely to hit with a slower rotation, but you still need enough rotation to apply force...anyways, I could go on and on about this part...) 4) you're probably better off just throwing rocks, and suddenly a sling looks like a decent weapon lol.
I was (Was = damn you Parkinson's) really good at the underhanded no-spin throw. It is a bit hard on the shoulder, in the way throwing a baseball is. And yes. I did spend many "idle" hours flicking knives and jeets (4 to 6 inch rods with a pointy end) into a board. I had trouble getting a deep hit past sixteen feet. Overhand was no problem, but accuracy suffered.
Adam Celandin (world champion knife thrower) has made a response video to this! Exciting! He has some awesome content also and great tips if anyone wants to learn knife throwing.
@@riftalope same here! I used to be really good at underhand when I was young, got a lot of knifes stuck on trees from quite a distance. The problem for me with throwing knifes is that.... you miss it, you're out of a knife hahaha so not really combat reliable.
I’m working on a response video as we speak. I’m not a champion or anything. I’m an average guy who knows a bit about knife throwing. And I use it around here on my farm especially against rats. 😆 they are always getting into the grain. I love your videos and highly respect you and agree with a few things that you are saying but see a things a different way.
I think it’s time Shad learns that just because HE can’t do something doesn’t mean it’s impractical. Lately anytime he says something “sucks” or doesn’t work, he completely ignores the fact that he’s the only person he’s testing things out on, and he doesn’t factor in his own physical limitations or lack of training
Regardless, why would you train on this when any other weapon would be more useful is the point. In older times you had to train up peasants. Its far easier and more effective to train on real weapons. Not the flashy ones.
If the only thing a thrown knife is good for is distracting the enemy or making them flinch, then you don't even need a knife specifically designed to be thrown. You could just pull out your dagger and throw that because it's not gonna be lethal either way. Actually, you could throw just about anything and get the same effect if they don't know what it is you're throwing before it hits them. A pen, a bottle, a box of TicTacs, anything could cause someone to flinch if you throw it at them. And if you want to throw something that will actually cause damage, you could just throw a rock.
That intro was very enjoyable! I got really good with throwing axes once upon a time, but never tried knives. It was in my scout days for jamboree. My troop always won the axe throwing because we practiced a lot. If it was a role playing game, skill levels 1,2,3 would take a long time to gain. Additional levels easier. I assume knives would be the same.
0:57 You're missing a lot, but instead of throwing them right away you need to take an extra turn aiming in order to get the weapon's accuracy bonus-otherwise you don't get the bonus _and_ get hit with a snap-shot penalty -4 to your skill.
I'm here for this
@@bologna3048 yeah.. no initiative .. the knife should ask you first to be thrown.
G-GURPS? I didn't expect a reference like this here
Wait is this gurps?
A fellow DSA player?
Hi Shad! Nice! I would like to make two points. Those throwing knives require more skill to throw than the Blade Heavy throwing knife. The blade heavy are almost impossible to miss a shot. The second point is like throwing star are more for a distraction to allow the thrower to escape. Love what you do!
And do not forget, that throwing knives are also in favor of any type of assassins - just add poison to the blade and you got it - deadly, compact, ranged weapon
I agree with the three points. 1. A throwing knife is not well balanced. It is point heavy. 2. Throwing knives are not thrown with a spin. 3. Poison is added to make it a high probability kill as long as the skin is broken.
They also make it easier to attack someone too since you can exploit that distraction and confusion to force an opening or weakness to show. Plus with poison it can make prolonged fights in your favour if you nick the target
Essentially these are just pointy, flimsy things for target practice. This is not something you would use in any real scenario. MY throwing knives are hefty and brutal. You get hit by one of them and youre staggered and have a dent in your armor whether I hit with the pointy bit or not. And if youre not armored, you are gonna get hurt. I think as such... As a projectile to chuck at somebody.. On a 3-5 meter distance before entering combat, it can be very effective indeed. But its not like you would show up to any kind of battle armed only with throwing knives.
And you are right. The biggest problem with them is the amount of training you would need to reliably hit anything. But if its heavy, any throw that lands, will stagger a person.
@@jackhartwig440 where are you getting the info that throwing knifes are not thrown with a spin? Are you suggesting they are thrown like a spear?
Reading sword and spirit, there's an interview with a shuriken teacher who really emphasises the fact that it's a distraction only, if you're lucky you might hurt an opponent, a shuriken in your arm hurts just like a cut and can tip the scales in your favor
Also, the throwing knives shown here look like kunai which were supposedly used as a kind of multi tool, knife, climbing tool, shovel, also sometimes a string was attached. I guess anyone carrying one or more would also learn to throw them so as to make the most of their potential.
The kunai (might be mistaken, don't @ me) started out as a farming tool, but when sharpened, could be used as a knife, while still having the plausible deniability of being just a tool.
Since only samurai could carry proper weapons in peace times, the commoners of japan have found various ways to make their inconspicuous tools into self-defense weaponry (as seen with weapons such as the kama and the bo and jo staffs)
@@alecchristiaen4856 Yeah, most of the weapons used by shinobi (ninjas) were originally farming tools. The vast majority of shinobi were peasant freedom fighters or mercenaries using whatever tools they had on hand and any techniques and strategies they needed to use to take on samurai, guards, and soldiers who had superior weapons, armor, and training. Despite their appearances in pop culture, shinobi would have never used a katana in combat due to how expensive they were, unless of course they managed to steal one from a samurai - but even then they would probably quickly discard it because it would draw too much attention.
@@alecchristiaen4856 C'mon, Mr. Samurai-dono. It's just a farming implement.
40 of them?
... I gotta lot of peasantry to do.
shuriken were used as caltrops, thrown into the ground to stop pursuers.
at some point someone might have found themselves with a shuriken in their possession, and *threw* it at an enemy.
*can* shuriken be thrown *at* enemies? yes... *are* they *throwing weapons* in full effect? no.
can you use a shovel as a hammer? yes... if it's all you have, you use it.
*is* it a hammer as such? no... it's a shovel.
that's why a hammer is called a hammer, and a shovel it's a shovel.... it's two different objects.
I'm all for unorthodox use of everyday objects, but from there to use a hammer to dig a trench? that's stupid.
In the Book of Five Rings Miyamoto Musashi suggests all samurai learn the art of shuriken-jutsu because being able to throw knives and other objects well was a huge asset. Musashi describes using it as a disctraction/injury technique to give you the chance to draw your sword or make an attack while they are distracted.
What I know is that in Japan the throwing knives were used primarily for distraction and surprise attacks in warfare. While in central Africa they were used as primary throwing weapons in warfare and hunting. The African types often had heavy head styles of throwing knife, that we're hefty and lethal, while the Japanese throwing knives were extremely small and light and not able to likely kill anyone.
Depending where it hits you...
@@SHIVSHANK ehh, a small one wouldn't do much regardless of where it hit, but if it was tampered like with something toxic then yeah probably. You could definitely take out an eye but all arteries and windpipes are fairly deep in the neck, small ones wouldn't do much. On top of that I doubt anyone, even ones who mastered it, would have the accuracy to properly hit said places.
The magic word is poison. Makes even a dart lethal.
@@TuberoseKisser ua-cam.com/video/8dRREUfJgYQ/v-deo.html
@@TuberoseKisser you'd be surprised. There's masters out their including some who've mastered the kunai with chain/rope, capable of hitting falling objects in air with precision and accuracy and even stationary or moving objects with ease. It's not impossible just takes a long time to master the precise hand eye coordination needed for such skill
08:50 That is one of the big misconceptions regarding thrown knives, that they NEED to spin. There are techniques where you throw them without any or very little spin and a very flat trajectory that ensures the point/edge is always facing the target. These throws can be done very swiftly with a distracting sweeping motion which has shorter range than throws with a spin but also guarantees the knife poses a threat to things like exposed hands, wrists, the neck or face, making sure that they serve their primary historical usage of being a distraction with the potential to injure.
On top of that, throwing just about any lighter kind of weapon on a loose cloth or tarp like what you have there makes for a very poor demonstration since it almost ensures you can't get any penetration since with even a good hit most if not all energy will be lost just pushing that cloth/tarp towards the background material, air resistance being what it is.
I will also say that of course just about any quick takedowns with thrown knives that don't rely on swift bleeding out from severed arteries or very temporarily stunning/knocking someone out by hitting them in the eye or temple is bullshit but I think almost everyone knows this.
I used to practice knife throwing (I haven't had a suitable target in a long time; I would use phone books, the blade largely slipped through the pages, meaning they lasted a while) using a spinless throwing method. I would do them with a Ka-bar, which has a bowie knife shape.
Not true at all at face requires 0 spin at 5 feet would knock a dude off his feet not counting the facial damage the kinetic energy distribution is key from toe to point of knife
If ur shorter it is lot harder only threw years of training day n night u can learn this I can explain in words
@@based_prophet I'm not sure I understand you but I assume you are basically talking about baseball-pitching into someone's face from point-blank range and honestly in such cases it does not really matter what you throw because anyone unaware enough to not dodge will be so surprised that anything from an apple to a cellphone or slipper is likely to make them fall over.
A throwing knife that doesn't spin won't stick to a target because it literally won't land point in or hit the target at much the 3 foot range. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
Throwing knives could be an interesting weapon for a magic user in fantasy. imagine someone who uses telekinesis or something similar to the force form star wars, he could accelerate them at crazy speeds and could have a small pouch of basically bullets in a medieval setting. and if he can slow them down in time he could even redirect them after throwing. it could be quite op and could be a good use of magic for a beginner magician in a story as moving small objects is pretty much the starting point for telekinesis.
See the Buffy episode where Willow goes after Glory with a bag of knives.
That would depend on how fast they can accelerate the thing, or if they can simply "steer" the knives in mid-air. A slower but sharper object would be as deadly as a faster but blunt object.
Otherwise, a bag full of steel balls will give you more bang for your buck and be deadlier and easier to handle than a throwing knife. Basically, they would be firing bullets in every way but the delivery method. In fact, pebbles, coins, etc. Would work as well. If that is the case, the only reason I think of someone using throwing knives is because they also want a melee weapon whenever they can't use their powers, and/or they are just edgy/rule of cool.
Anyways, it's a good idea.
If you would like to see a wonderful depiction of telekinesis combat in a modern setting then I recommend the movie Push. They have a scene where two Tk users are having a shoot out with guns that they are levitating around each other’s cover. It’s pretty awesome.
>X-Men: First Class
>Magneto bar scene
Look up Pucci and Dio from Jojo's bizzare adventure. Pucci can do exactly as you described in the final chapter and use his power: Made in Heaven to Accelerate things... including knifes. DIO by contrast can use is power -ZA WUARDO- The World to stop time for a while, and he uses this time to great effect, often throwing a bushel of knifes at his opponent all at once.
I was really into ninja stuff when I was a teenager and did a lot of reading into them and even then I learned quite well that shuriken and throwing knives were mostly just distraction and annoyance rather than to mortally injure anyone, unless maybe if used with poison. But even then you'd probably just be better with a bow.
To quote a ninja it’s better just to throw stones
Yeah, if you can poison a knife, you can poison an arrow. It would probably be pretty foolish to try and poison a shuriken though. There wouldn't really be any safe way to grab the thing under stress.
Can't sneak a bow into a lord's domain.
A shuriken can be deadly in the right hands. Sensei Soke Masaaki Hatsumi could kill with one.
@@vandiverb You're telling me the man born in the 1930s killed people with little shiny stars?
Or he 'could' have in theory? Because that means nothing.
Great video, as always, Shad. I just have a few things (aka a whole essay) that I would like to touch on when it comes to throwing knives.
Full disclosure: I'm not an expert, but I have had my fair experience with throwing knives and am familiar with most of the basics, as well as aware of how NOT to throw them (which I still somehow manage to do frequently)
First off: You're throwing kunai, which are not meant to be spun when thrown. They're meant to be thrown "straight", with 180 degrees of rotation at the most, for a maximum range. "Straight" throws are easier to do and learn anyways, while spinning throws are more difficult and "advanced", for lack of a better word.
Which brings me to my second point: Even if you were throwing the appropriate kind of knives, you're still not throwing them properly. When you put spin on a knife it's not supposed to be a rapid spin with tons of rpms, like you see in movies and tv, because that increases the likelihood of hitting with something other than the point. It's supposed to be a slow, controlled spin, so that the point hits the target, rather than anything else. The weight of the knife is supposed to stabilize it and/or drive the point into the target, but that can only do so much.
NOW even IF you did everything correctly, yes throwing knives are still more of a novelty than an actual functional battlefield weapon, HOWEVER with proper technique they can be used even more effectively in their limited uses than you gave them credit for. For example, in modern times, what is the likelihood that an attacker is going to be wearing armor? None. A hoodie at most, unless you're in a fight with armed security, at which point you have other problems. Even in that scenario, a heavy enough knife, when thrown properly can pose a real danger to an attacker, forcing them to either block or dodge, which, as you said, is the real use of a throwing knife.
TO CLARIFY: You can throw any kind of knife. When I say "throwing the appropriate kind of knives" I'm specifically referring to the shape of the knife, and, more importantly, the point of balance. For example, those kunai have their weight focused near the handle, making their point of balance in the center. When these are thrown, the point of balance needs to be directly behind the tip of the knife, otherwise the energy, which now uses the point as a fulcrum, will continue to spin the knife rather than force the tip home. In large bladed knives, where the weight is focused near the tip, the point of balance pulls the tip forward, rather than spinning and twisting wildly as the kunai are when you throw them. However, this makes driving the point home easier, because the weight of the knife has already reached the target and therefore has less leverage.
Also, Jorg Sprave has a video, that you may or may not have seen, where he learns to properly and effectively throw knives in a matter of minutes, proving that you don't necessarily need years of practice to get adequate at throwing knives.
I think I covered most of the important stuff, but I'm sure I forgot to mention SOMETHING.
P.S. I've tried Magic Spoon and it's okay cereal, but extremely expensive. Additionally, the only flavors I liked was the Frosted and the fruity. The others were kind of meh... 😕
Well. Let us all relax as Shad about to say a few things about throwing knives. And Shad throwing them. Whilst having smooth jazz in the background.
Background? I hear it louder than Shad's voice.
I rather go to a dentist than having to listen to that "music" again.
@@1IGG music isnt just the music you like
There was a person who interviewed a modern day ninja, and he says the purpose of kunais were to wedge them between rocks of a wall for easy climbing.
They were also used as digging tools.
@Green Warrior Monke Much like HEMA or any other martial art - people practice the artform to preserve the artform.
@Green Warrior Monke There is some old schools in kyoto still. But yeah a source, A name would be great to research.
i want more likes on this comment
There's lots of improvised uses for a knife of any kind. A knife is a knife, it's one of the best inventions of all time.
A kunai like those were a tool first. A cutting, prying and digging tool, you would also use as a dagger first in a conflict. They were occasionally thrown mainly to distract either while you swapped to a primary weapon or ran the hell away.
Plus if one throws a kunai like that & it spins of course it ain’t gonna work. You want it to get straight hard & fast
Kunai's have always been cheap unsharpened stakes except for in Modern Times to sell :Ninja: . Japan has many types of military and utility knifes and Kunai isn't one. Kunai is usually made of pig iron, and typical daggers are made of Steel.
Adam Celandin (world champion knife thrower) has made a response video to this! Exciting!
He has some awesome content also and great tips if anyone wants to learn knife throwing.
Kenai were always a tool.
All the stuff about "ninja" is just made up 19th century entertainment.
throwing knives at least from my understanding has always been much more of a utility item. it can function as a knife, a small shovel, basic climbing gear, and if needed a thrown weapon. it's always important to carry one or two but they would never be your main weapon.
I don't think they would work as a tool. Throwing knives have no handle (except for kunai, some chakrams and the african knives) also their edge usually isn't sharp so they would be really bad cutting tool. If I had to choose I'd much rather some hunting knife or even kitchen cleaver to cut small trees or dig a hole.
It's like carrying metal spikes they are a really versatile tool to have
They are easier to throw if you put a long handle on them. A handle about your own height should be proper length
So a mighty stick added to it? Can't go wrong with stick.
My goodness. What an idea...
That scene in Lord of the Rings proves that a thrown knife can be deflected using a melee weapon.
Context: There’s a scene in Lord of the Rings where an orc throws a dagger at Aragorn, one of the heroes. The knife was supposed to miss by a wide margin and the camera angle would be used to make it look like a close call. However, the actor throwing the knife had bad aim and threw it directly at Aragorn, who deflected it using his sword. It was such a cool maneuver that they kept it in the movie. Also, the prop knife was metal so would in theory be similar to a throwing knife.
So he just casually deflected a knife that was accidentally thrown directly at him lmaooo
You also forgot too mention the knife was partly sharpened and it could of seriously injured him if not killed him
@@willmungas8964 It was epic you should watch the scene
@@SasoriZert True. That’s so scary!
Also the actor plating the uruk hai had heavy makeup around his eyes, and accidentally grabbed a real knife instead of the prop
Gaijin Ghoomba has covered ninja stars and shuriken many times on his channel. A point he often makes is that in the real world they weren't really used for lethality. They were used for a distraction to open the target up for an ambushing strike (like you pointed out), a diversion to infiltrate or escape, or to poison the target. In some cases to supplement hand to hand combat.
Larger kunai were not really throwing weapons, but functioned more as tools like hand spades.
Hell, even in Naruto shuriken are almost 100% distraction tools.
or to reduce effectiveness... I mean, if your not stuck in a video game were you just loose some HPs after a hit, a knife sticking in your leg or foot or arm is propably decreasing your effectiveness in melee fighting. and if you can accomplish that outside of measure, i.e. without beeing effectivly threatend, thats great
Weren't the largu kunai basically just weaponized masonry trowels, basically mostly useful for climbing stone walls?
@@andrewlatourette428 Kind of, but they were basically never used at all. There were always better options then kunai to use for most tasks, making it the last choice only really relied on by people who couldn't access them. As for the climbing stone walls specifically, thats quite niche and a kunai wouldn't really work any better then another bladed object that is more sturdy.
EDIT I realized I kind of over exaggerated by saying "never" they were somewhat common, just not used by professional warriors who had better choices (dedicated throwing knifes existed and were a lot better then kunai or normal knifes were better at doing the task of being an normal knife.)
That guy doesn't know WTF he's talking about. I've seen his videos and he's always inaccurate or just flat-out wrong.
Antony Cummins is a historical researcher and linguist who works with Japanese historians to translate scrolls used by Shinobi schools and training. They are not a specific "ninja" weapon or tool. He has a whole series just about shuriken. In scrolls he's translated, the shuriken is only referenced in criminal capture. So calling a shuriken a "ninja star" is asinine. Antony struggles to find any evidence connecting them to ninja or shinobi at all.
They were not for distraction, ambushes, poisonings, or anything. That's made up of fictional nonsense based on stage plays/theater and fictional stories that were written in the mid-1830s, then it was popularized in movies. Goober Ghoomba just repeats shit he read on the internet.
Historically, shuriken was more the straight big nail-looking things in kenjutsu (swordsmanship) associated teachings. It's just a hidden weapon/tool, not a throwing thing.
congrats shad: by the powers of deduction you have come to the correct conclusion about shuriken (and honestly most light throwing weapons) - there a concealable distraction/wounding tool, definitely NOT a lethal weapon. Also throwing weapons are much better indoors than a bow or other ranged weapon. So much more useful for a Guard or assassin or spy than a battlefield soldier who obviously would prefer a bow or xbow or whatever.
One final point: thats a terrible throwing knife.. its tacticool mall ninja kunai - see that ring pommel - that was for the rope. Real kunai being tools before they were ever weapons used for digging and also for weighting the end of a rope for going over tree branches to pull them down for harvest.
any ways - hope this didnt come off disrespectful - I do enjoy your content and appreciate you sharing your knowledge just you were a bit off on this one chap.
Good moment to remember how Viggo Mortensen used his sword to actually deflect the dagger accidentally thrown at him on the Lord of the Rings set.
As a main weapon it's fairly bad as you'd need to magically carry infinite daggers, have fairly amazing aim, only fight relativly lightly armoured opponents (though even an armoured opponent might flinch instinctivly) & you'd probably still need to mix it with regular knife-fighting to be even somewhat effective.
As a side-arm or backup weapon, carrying 3-4 throwing knives has potential to be usefull. Especially if they are also effective for regular knife/dagger-fighting. Hell, you don't even necesarly care about it killing. Just distracting, or lightly wounding an opponent may be worth the effort of carrying one.
water hemlock oil on the tip of a needle will kill a man in minutes.
Quite litterally just what he said in the video
If you were writing a story And you have a character that only uses knives, The problem is you're writing.
That is not realistic. Especially a warrior.
Modern armies have learned, It's better better to wound the soldier then to kill.
When you kill you only take one person out of your battle.
If You wound him his cries takes the medics and his buddies out of the battle.
@@milesromine9960 The thing is that this is situational. In a ranged combat scenario, you may be able to find the time to notice that your buddy is bleeding and think you have an opportunity to remove him to somewhere safer for aid. In a close combat scenario though, even if you somehow manage to notice that your buddy is hurt, you're going to be too committed to trying to not die to deal with that immediately. And hell, even if he's mortally wounded, the pure adrenaline of the situation may still allow him to continue to contribute to the fight.
@@ColonelSandersLite All combat scenarios are situational, it doesn't matter about the weapon.
This is why I said If you have a character who only uses knives and nothing else it's bad writing.
You cannot flinch fast enough to beat a knife that is thrown from 15 ft.
Even if you could the nife
Wielder can throw up to four knives with one hand in less than a second.
Most armors do not cover the face.
Most actual knife wielders will have the proper weapon for the proper combat.
Armor defeats knives except for the face because most people's faces are not armored all the time.
Against heavy armored foes the knife wielder uses axes.
If your character is coming across two or three people carrying spears.
And your character has a sword in You're right hand. So you grab three knives with your left.
A person's face is a big target to a knife thrower Who practices hitting golf tees to train accuracy.
And I'm sorry but I cannot see a scenario where a guy has a knife stuck through his mouth tickling his spinal cord fighting through it.
You seem to be completing the fatherhood quest line fantastically Shad, congratulations 🎉
Shad, you don't spin the knife, you throw it straight 1/2 turn into the target, with a lot of power. Very effective at close range.
You can do both. There are multiple different types of way to throw knives. I also believe that it might depend on the knife. Adam Celadin YT channel has a lot on the subject
Yes you can do both, you can also pull off with your tires spinning.... Same principle, the spinning seems to waste force.
I can throw both ways and the 1/2 turn overhand at short distances and underhand at longer distances definately inserts the blade deeper into the target
If your in close range then just stab them.
You know what else is effective at close range? Stabbing or slashing them, and not losing your weapon intentionally
@@vicc6790 Kind of hard to stab someone from 4 to 6 meters.
I’ve been practicing throwing every day for a couple years now. Real throwing knives make a difference but I understand Shad’s point of view coming from his experience with them.
I've always imagined the purpose of the throwing knife to be exactly the context they are used in in the Princess Bride. I don't feel like lethality is absolutely required as long as you can injure someone without being at much risk for injury yourself.
My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my fa...ck!
Pretty much. Throwing knives are hardly lethal weapons.
Indeed. The downside is just tossing your opponent weapons to be used against you. And yeah, they’re rarely lethal. It’s like the knife fight military safety videos; the best way to survive a knife fight when unarmed is to run away.
Or to add another heuristic, a knife fight typically has two outcomes: the loser dies in the street and the winner dies in hospital later on from sepsis.
@@KUsery42 Major Kira in an episode of DS9, trying to prove a point, stated (with a knife to Ziyal's throat): "The best way to survive a knife fight is to never get in one."
@@KUsery42 Yeah we have an old saying over here where I live about people who are bleeding out. It goes like this.
Transported by ambulance through the ER into the waiting room then off to the cemetery.
Funny enough, this came up in a D&D session with my buds. the fighter carried throwing knives on him because they were easier to carry than javelins, and he normally fights using a longsword. Are they as effective as a javelin? No. Do they cripple him to carry them? No, and not only that, but he has an easily concealed weapon, and it can double as a last ditched ranged attack to save someone if necessary (keep in mind, in our D&D sessions we do "realistic carry" meaning we have to be able to explain how we're carrying something. Meaning a fighter can't carry his sword, a bow, 20 arrows, and 10 javelins on top of all of his camping equipment like you're used to seeing)
Never bring a knife to a longsword fight.
I've seen throwing javelins inside of a arrow-like case before IRL, but they were just 1/2 a foot or so longer than an arrow draw for that person. Realistically speaking they would do about as much damage as throwing an arrow as well. Furthermore, depending on how the weapons are packed, you could carry all that equipment you listed... you just could not get to some of that equipment with the pack on... likely the Javelins making them pointless, unless someone was drawing them from another's pack.
You could also look up the iron "war darts" or the late roman plumbata that allegedly inspired them too
Its prospectively heavier than a throwing knife but its more or less a very cut down javlin
In my campaign, my sorcerer keeps throwing knives on her. Why? Well...because they come in handy sometimes. We're a party of nearly all casters, so our DM throws an anti-magic circle at us. Everyone else was nearly unable to deal much more than a scratch to the enemy due to them losing access to their magic if they got within attacking range, and any magic attack that gets within that range also dissipated. So my sorcerer uses Tenser's Transformation and starts chucking throwing knives at the guy. Couldn't get close otherwise the transformation would end also, but throwing knives from range means I get the advantage of Tenser's Transformation while the knives don't count as magical attacks.
I probably dealt about 95% of the damage for that fight, and is about the only time where they came in handy. The only other character who wasn't totally handicapped due to the anti magic was the one character who had an artifact, which is apparently strong enough to not be affected by the anti-magic.
@@rachdarastrix5251 ...if you have something better than a knife that you could bring. Having a weapon is almost always better than having no weapon.
As someone who has a set of throwing knives that they play around with occasionally I relate to the start so much! Also some tips: you should keep your wrist straight and have all the rotation come from your arm, also you shouldn't let go of the knives and instead hold them in a way just light enough that they slip out of your hands at the right time. These tips have been a life saver to me when trying to learn how to throw knifes (have yet to completely figure out no spin sadly)
"When I mention Ninja Death Stars, I'm talking about throwing weapons, not the Japanese dub of Star Wars." You got me on that, Shad, well done!
Edit: It's "Press 'X' to doubt," not F.
Aka "The Hidden Fortress"?
I was imagining a bunch of space ninjas flying around in a giant metal ball saying
"Ha ha! We don't need to be stealthy now do we?"
F
Press 'E' for the people!
@@rachdarastrix5251 I dunno about that. A surprise attack might have made the battle of yavin go a bit differently.
Hell, the battle of endor would have been completely different if the rebels just didn't know where the death star was too.
In my view, throwing knives in combat are for "O fuck, I gotta throw something… Knife!" Anything thrown at someone is gonna be a reasonably good distraction, even moreso if it has a sharp edge, either to get an opening for an attack or to buy just a moment o' extra time for something else (like running the fuck away in my case).
I know it isn't the case but I love the thought of a complete stranger seeing this and helping him retrieve the knives during the video.
if someone is running at you with a knife at 20 meters you will be able to draw a gun and fire. 20 meters is 66 feet what you are thinking about is the 21 foot rule
I would just like to point out, most throwing knives aren't heavy on purpose. For practice and safety, you train and compete with light knives.
For context, those can't even stick to tree bark. But I have knives that will stick to trees much like a thrown axe will, they're much heavier and thicker than even normal camping/survival knives. What you're doing with those knives is almost like trying to judge a long sword by testing a LARP foam sword against a target. Yeah, you can train technique, but effectiveness is not the same.
Agreed. However his points still stand and other than distraction and/or pretty specific situation, they are useless in combat
@@karrimgyver No argument there. They can be useful, but they're not main weapons.
*THROW DAGGERS ARE TERRIBLE WEAPONS BUT GREAT STEALTH TOOLS :*
1) Feint throw to the head then pause, and after the enemy moves to dodge retarget the spot they are moving towards THEN throw.
2) Immediately after you throw you either run forward and tackle through your opponent or run away entirely
3) Before being sighted, throw one at a pot or window, to cause a noise distraction and then sneak out
4) Douse one in oil, light it on fire then throw it into walls to create fire or into flammable materials to cause panic
5) Leave one in the path of an enemy, then hide for a free head shot when he drops down to collect it
6) Use them as steppers to scale high walls (stab them between the bricks then climb on them)
7) Attach one to the end of a chain and swing it around to ward of several attackers or to block incoming missiles aimed at you.
8) Throw to bait a shield raise, then attack the legs with a takedown and disarm if you have no other options
To name a few ;) Mispent youth...
Very surprised nobody seems to think these things have any value except as a main weapon, when that's literally the least likely use of them.
@@DailyCorvid This isnt payday mate. none of those would work, most people would just shout and alert everybody else. Youre not sneaking out of there
@@DailyCorvid Um... so many of those would be more effectively done with just using a different weapon/tool?
1: I guess any throwable thing counts?
2: Rock. It's free and practically everywhere.
3: Rock.
4: Rock (in-cloth)/stick/arrow/torch. Oil doesn't stick at all well to metal. Use wood/cloth like everyone else!
5: Just how dumb are you expecting the person to be? And/or just how sharp do you think their eyes are? Why are they walking around while closely examining the ground in the first place? Are people normally not going to think "Huh, a weapon lying around, this might be a dangerous area and I should be on my guard?"
6: Really? I've never personally tried it, but I imagine there are far more effective and reliable ways to climb a wall. Grappling hook or ladder comes to mind. Or a pile of the guards' corpses.
7: If you are that godly skilled to accurately block high-speed projectiles with a super-narrow piece of metal with enough force to deflect projectiles, just grab it out of the air instead. Looks much cooler! Also, no it's not a "dagger" at all, just a blade on a rope. Pretty sure that already has a name, just not gonna google it for ya.
8: Rock. Or just attack them with a good feint using the primary weapon you should be using instead. Also, how fast do run compared to the distance you are from them?
Actually, in the form of throwing your doing, you'd determine a constant form of throwing, so the spin is consent, and you'd throw either blade, or handle, depending on how far you are, since the number of rotations the blade needs to stick em with the pointy end is partly based on which end your holding.
Though strength of throw does matter a little still, this makes it less of an issue, and easy to calculate.
Also, your throwing them wrong, you'd throw them more like a throwing Axe in this style.
Shad throws like a girl. nuff said.
@@bikerfirefarter7280 now thats just needlessly mean
When I was younger I wrote a couple fantasy books as a hobby and one of my favorite running gags was my main character attempting to use his backup daggers as throwing knives, usually resulting in them either missing completely or hitting at the wrong angle and just bouncing off.
Unless you've put in an insane amount of training, the idea of doing anything productive with a thrown knife *in a combat situation* is pretty far fetched to me. Seems like some wannabe commando shit.
where can I find this story, it sound's interesting on how realistic is sounds... I hope it is anyway
and when I write a story, I have knives be as long as possible since it isn't a good idea to use it as a main weapon unless it's more of a sword for you than anything, and even then, duel wielding it to compensate for it since having 2 should at least help in using oe to throw to get in close to stab in a weak point area, or as the side arm for your arming sword
and throwing knives be laces with either a poison or paralysis to make surethe enemy is damages more when cut, and namely as a distraction more than anything
@@LoneWolf20213 heh, unfortunately I don't have the story anymore as I lived with my strict religious parents at the time of writing it and they thought it was demonic so they smashed my computer to pieces with a sledgehammer. I wish I had kept better backups. But I do appreciate your interests! I would definitely love to go back and revisit that world at some point.
Yup, main character's weapon was an axe and he kept two daggers as back up weapons. Poisoned blades would be a really good idea! That was something the Chinese did with their repeating crossbows, where to make up for the weapons low penetrating power they would coat the bolts in poison so that even a scratch could prove deadly.
@@Phoenix0F8 That's a bummer. Sure doesn't sound like good parenting, religious or otherwise. (My family, close and extended, is quite religious, but none would do something so terrible!)
@@Phoenix0F8 demonic? would that have been on account of just magic or was it too violent or something?
I put about 10-20 minutes a day in for a year and now I'm competitive. You just need proper knives and guidance.
Hey Shad, great vid as always man. Love watching your content instead of baking outside in the New Mexico desert. The one thing I can add here, especially in respect to fantasy type situations is how versatile a throwing knife is when combined with poison, especially for stealth/assassination. Even with chain mail it'd only take a nick. While you wouldn't get great penetrating power vs chain mail, the tip of the knife will still break the skin. Granted the assassin would have to toss it and run, but by the time the commotion died down the target would have died as well, even from a nick.
11:00 It's not just that throwing knives are easy to dodge because even if you can't dodge left or right, you can still use movement to negate them entirely. As you noted very early in the video, Shad, you have to get the perfect amount of spin to have the knives hit straight on with the point and penetrate. So even if someone can't dodge a knife completely, a single step backwards will prevent the knife from striking with the point and make the whole thing worthless. Given this, there are really only two viable uses for throwing knives:
1. As a pure distraction
2. As a regular knife that isn't thrown
You can throw knives without spinning them, apparently. That means you can't just step forward or back to negate the spin in that case.
That shit Aint got a cross guard so its tsust a worse knife in most cases
There is a thing called no spin technique. That's how they can stick the knifes from any distance.
You can also throw them a lot harder with the no-spin technique.
Underarm blade first no rotation = more penetraion, works for me
@@peterhall8572 no-spin is just the name. it doesn't literally have no rotation. it's just minimal spin.
@@keggerous the force the blade hits with is higher when it spins if travelling at the same velocity due to a fraction of its angular momentum adding to the impact.
@@simonfarre4907 The momentum is traveling in the circle though, not in the direction of the throw. It wont pierce deeper. Also, you can literally throw the knives harder because of the technique. When you throw with a spinning technique, you have to control the spin and wrist movements. You cannot throw as hard as you can. With the no-spin technique, you can throw as hard as you can.
This is the only guy who knows how to make great, compelling sponsored content. I always skip sponsored parts, but here, I'm always looking forward to them
Well, there is also Neytrix with her character skits featuring Pufferbunny, and Terrible Writing Advice, which has a whole storyline written around parodies of various stock villians figthing over Skillshare or Campfire Blaze, while Knigths of Artistic Integrity are trying to prevent them from destroying the world.
Internet Historian's ads are so good that people have uploaded them separately on UA-cam
What is D and D?
Adam Celandin (world champion knife thrower) has made a response video to this! Exciting!
He has some awesome content also and great tips if anyone wants to learn knife throwing.
Nice little eating sesh there Shad. The children seemed to enjoy their cereal. Very wholesome.
Hi Shad, while i agree with you about practicality of thrown knives in combat, i do think you might be selling the idea a bit short. I threw knives, 9 inchs nails etc as a target practice hobby with my dad when i was a kid (cooler than darts, for sure). Never spin the thrown single-pointed object more than 180 degrees btw. With a bit training we scored solid hits to 5 to 10 meters every time. I'd say my dad would have been down right mortally dangerous at that distance with knives. Maybe do a cooperation video with Adam Celadin... he's real good at knife throwing and seems a nice and cool guy in general. :)
I was taught how to throw knives by my mother and she used to hunt rabbits with a bowie knife. Every time I see someone make a video critiquing throwing knives they have no idea about the real methods vs the movie spin a thousand times nonsense.
yeah but from another country. Adam is from Czech republic.
I agree, at least somewhat. I've spent quite a bit of time throwing and I think they do have uses in close range. Especially in melee combat, if you have something you can quickly draw and throw you can out range the other person and throw them off. I used to practice no spin and half spin out to 30 feet (max) and it's definitely doable but like Shad said it would be easy to dodge at that range, close up you're not going to dodge and unlikely to miss.
@@richardtous1085 I'm pretty sure Shad's done videos with Skallagrim (Canada), Metatron (Italy), Schola Gladiatoria (UK) etc before. I think such cooperation would be entirely doable. :)
You threw 9 Inch Nails? I suppose that could leave someone with a Head Like a Hole😎
You can't compare these to crapchucks. There is a HUGE difference why throwing knives are way better than nunchucks... It's that anyone can pick up a knife and throw it WITHOUT hurting themselves
Throwing knives would be best utilized in conjunction with other weapons as part of a group; the knives get the target’s immediate attention before a more direct attack is implemented.
@@juice6521 They had guns in the medieval times?
@@minisithunknown5568 Yes.
@@Rogsnutle Depends on how early we are talking. But anyway "use a gun" is a dumb and bad faith response.
Thrown knives are slower than a fired arrow or bolt, so it could actually make enemy aware of an attack from a different angle, so that a (cross)bow user can shoot him while his attention is elsewhere (I assume opponent uses shield and can't just parry bolts on reaction with his sword).
Adam Celandin (world champion knife thrower) has made a response video to this! Exciting!
He has some awesome content also and great tips if anyone wants to learn knife throwing.
Most often, shuriken were used as a distraction without the intention to kill. Sometimes they were also smeared with poison or even feces so that even a slight graze could turn into a difficult-to-treat infection.
Fascinating video, I love hearing you talk about this stuff. Have you done a video about the chakram yet? It seems like a logical next step if you haven't tackled it already
I'm actually pretty good at throwing knives. It's all about knowing what distances the tip will be aligned at, which becomes increasingly difficult the more rotations.
Yeah ya probably have to be when youre hunting in danger riddled tombs for long lost relics like crystal skulls that you can then hollow out and fill with vodka
Look into no-spin if you want a change up in style I can throw at any distance up to about 15 yards so far.
Yeah, he is doing full spin without knowing his distance and normally in combat best distance is 4-6feet. .
@@nickgreene2971 I've tried it out but never got the hang of it.
@@Stop_Gooning It's hard at first but if you can manage it, it becomes natural like throwing a football. I think the major thing to getting it right is to start close like 5 to 8 feet away from your target. Also focusing more on smothly swiping downward at first rather than trying to apply a huge amount of counter spin, you don't really need much until you get up to like 15-20 feet throws. It also might help to start throwing at a target that's more downward than you would normally at first because the gravity will help you out till you can get a feel for the slide/flick motion. After that it's just practicing. Also for a middle ground military half spin is kind of halfway between the two styles where you throw from the blade and use your palm and thumb to control the spin. Just what I found useful in case you were interested in trying it out again, not saying spin throw isn't just as fun a hobby since that's what its all about these days thankfully.
"Shuriken" isn't really a weapon, but a technique - it literally translates to "thrown sword" - famously utilized by Miyamoto Musashi as a surprise weapon, which netted him quite a few duel victories. He was ambidextrous and used his left hand to throw his wakizashi while the opponent was charging at him, usually to a lethal effect. Also, he was known to finish of a running enemy by throwing his regular katana as a spear into the enemy's back.
How much of that is legend and how much actually happened is not clear, but the guy was a no-nonsense guy when it came to dueling and it's really fun to read up on his exploits.
He didn't throw his wakizashi. They refer to knives as swords in japan too, especially in this days. He had a throwing knife he used
What aren't legends are the entire community except thagne and matt Easton. Everyone else is average level garbage! If I got a person who was a bit more physically able and less skilled. They would still defeat these weak nerds.
Acrually, s shuriken was a carpenter's tool used for removing nails and pegs from wood. Still works pretty well in that regard.
@pensive_cube correct me if i'm wrong, but i think you may be misunderstanding shuriken a bit. the ken part of shuriken doesn't literally translate as "sword", and the kanji for ken is often pronounced differently in other weapons' names. the kanji for ken usually refers to weapons that have curved, single edged blades. for example, naginatas are polearms with curved, single edged blades, and the kanji used to write naginata is the same for the katana, a sword famous for being curved and single edged. if you're interested to learn more about this, here is a video done by a language professor who is fluent in japanese and japanese kanji who better explains it: ua-cam.com/video/8KIb3YYQMrM/v-deo.html . if i remember correctly, which i may not, the shuri part of shuriken would most accurately be translated as hidden, hence, "hidden blade". and on the whole word shuriken not being a weapon, but meaning "thrown sword" is also incorrect. shuriken are weapons, but the word shurikenjutsu is a martial art focused on shuriken, and literally translates to "hidden blade technique".
There is a medieval European sword and dagger manuscript that have several dagger throws in it. The throwing knives actually used in combat were not our modern small sport knives.
I was about to start my daily work, but you know what, yes, Shad. Let us discuss throwing knives :)
While I certainly agree with many of your points, I wouldn't completely discount this as a valid attack, especially in the emergency cases you alluded to. It can be done very accurately, to greatly devastating effect. And a thinner "spike" only makes it lighter and more effective, while still letting you have enough meat on the knife to grind in a proper blade for general use.
Keep up the good work, I love watching your vids!
I've actually resorted to using one in a duel for fun. My sword got snapped at the hilt so I quickly jabbed them with the hilt, they stepped back due to being caught off guard, and in that time I pulled a rubber one from my pocket, and tossed it at them before they could finish stepping back in range. (Admittedly, it being half that size helped since it was so easy to pull from the pocket - underhanded close range throw immediately from my pocket.)
I'll wager this was exactly how they were used most historically.
So... You ended him rightly?
Wait, how did your sword snap in the first place? Were you using styrofoam swords or what? If it was made of steel, you should cease the combat since it creates a lethal edge that would normally be safeguarded.
I think Shad got very close when talking about the “specific situation” where throwing knives would be effective. But I think looking at how effective they are in use is the wrong angle to understand their usefulness. I think the primary usefulness is that they simply are a ranged weapon and they can be dangerous.
Imagine Shad wants to get past Ozzy (I hope that’s the right spelling) and Ozzy has a good defensive position. They both are unarmoured, with arming swords. Ozzy can wait for Shad to come to him and have the advantage of the defensive position. Shad doesn’t want to fight there, but has no choice but to engage, to get past.
If Shad also has throwing knives, he has another option. When he pulls one, Ozzy has a choice. He can let Shad have a free shot, or charge in, losing his defensive advantage. He may know that Shad is unlikely to do much damage, but he’s still throwing a knife at him.
Of course, there’s no guarantee Ozzy will charge, but it’s made more likely by the threat of the throwing knives. Shad doesn’t actually have to throw a knife, at all (though he can still probably get at least one free throw) for it to be useful in this situation. That’s just one example, but it’s not hard to imagine a situation where the threat of any thrown weapon might tip the balance.
you painted me a picture with words 🤗
He is also using what amounts to practice throwing knives. Those were made for sports. They never saw any use in actual combat. Real throwing knives, while still not super useful, or commonly used, had far more weight to them. In the hands of someone that actually knew how to use them properly, even if you blocked, they could still maim, or at least temporarily disable or hinder a limb.
This is what light throwing weapons have traditionally been for - a very light and small tool that simply gives you a small extra advantage above your actual weapon, that gives your enemy one more thing they have to care about. And since most people would have just had a few knives on them in general, it's not that big a stretch to make those knives just a bit better balanced and weighted. They compare to heavier throwing weapons such as hatchets and javelins, which historically have been used on the charge to disrupt the enemy before you use your main weapon. Hatchets in particular stand out, since we have so many documented examples of them being highly effective in skilled hands.
Throwing knives would be useful in everyday situations. If you are being unexpected attacked of course your first defense is to run, and throwing out an unexpected knife at your attackers will be surprising and distracting - helpful to get you a few seconds to run, and it will slow down your pursuers as now every time you round a corner they have to be prepared to face a knife the other way. Redundant to a modern handgun, of course.
*THROW DAGGERS ARE TERRIBLE WEAPONS BUT GREAT STEALTH TOOLS :*
1) Feint throw to the head then pause, and after the enemy moves to dodge retarget the spot they are moving towards THEN throw.
2) Immediately after you throw you either run forward and tackle through your opponent or run away entirely
3) Before being sighted, throw one at a pot or window, to cause a noise distraction and then sneak out
4) Douse one in oil, light it on fire then throw it into walls to create fire or into flammable materials to cause panic
5) Leave one in the path of an enemy, then hide for a free head shot when he drops down to collect it
6) Use them as steppers to scale high walls (stab them between the bricks then climb on them)
7) Attach one to the end of a chain and swing it around to ward of several attackers or to block incoming missiles aimed at you.
8) Throw to bait a shield raise, then attack the legs with a takedown and disarm if you have no other options
To name a few ;) Mispent youth...
So... are you implying that throwing daggers are something you should naturally be carrying along with an arming sword WITHOUT armor or shields on a regular basis?
That it would be relatively common practice to get good enough at using them as a potentially deadly weapon... rather than a bow or sling?
Or is it really just a fringe situation that people have blown out of proportion due to how it falls into rule of cool-and-sometimes-possible?
Honestly - I once knew two historical reenactors, who were practicing to perform the scene from Lord of the Rings, where the Uruk throws a knife at Aragorn, who chops it out of the air with his sword and they managed to pull it off relatively consistently. They were never hurt, but that is mainly because the guy throwing them knew how to properly do so and never threw the knife at the other, instead throwing it to one of his sides. So yeah - you could totally dodge a knife, if your reflexes and agility were good enough, but you still shouldn't ever throw them at anyone (saying this just in case someone is getting ideas because of the above).
Also - I agree that they are mainly a distraction. For example - let's say there is a chaotic melee (a skirmish, for example) where you have managed to overcome your opponent and see your mate struggling with theirs, so you chug a knife at that opponent to throw them off, maybe even take an eye. But like I said already - if the opponent knows you're throwing a knife at them, it is improbable you will actually wound them, because they can be struck out of the air.
I used them in LARP for years alongside a bastard sword. Effective even in combat IF you can no-spin and underarm. Sheaves on shoulders, hips and small of the back. These were foam and duct tape and still hit home. Never throw just one if the opponent is aware of it, always use it to offend an area. Opponents will either move from or move their defences to that area. Put something pointy in the new area of attack, result. Start to think of them as one shot pikes you can put in your pocket and they become very useful.
Thye great legend of Bushido Musashi Miyamoto was said to be an expert at trowing knifes, shurikens and even his katana (of wich he carried two) since he was an specialist at battling one against many. Aztec knights carried usually 3-5 atlatl javelins, they were very light made of reed and featers, with an obsidian head and had insanely long range and piercing power.
"It's night, Jazz is playing, the bartender serving his swill to his patrons, and a crowd gathers around watching a guy throwing knives"
I think that is legit an often overlooked aspect in fantasy. Entertainment. Throwing some knives at a tree can be a good pastime to stave off boredom. Being able to entertain some guests at a bar improves your reputation AND can earn you some money. Or at least a few free drinks.
Love this! I would love to see an underrated historical weapons episode about the Sling! Lightweight, high damage, incredible accuracy, and all for the same material cost as a single belt. Definitely underrated
Should've used the word thong instead of belt, it'll be funnier for non Australians but Shad would still have understand it.
High skill required and not practical to use from tight formations... Not surprising that in practical military use didn't get traction throwing spears or bows did, even if effective.
@@michaelearl6765 The Greeks, Spaniards, some Romans, and some other parts of the Mediterranean and Mideast got pretty good with using them as battle weapons. The accuracy was limited, but when used with a cast lead slug or bullet could have the same hitting power as that of a handgun. (Not the same as penetrating power, but the weight of it could crack a skull or rib if not using adequate armor.) Since they were relatively cheap/simple they were more of a skirmisher or secondary weapon than something with more specialization or prestige like learning archery.
@@pauljs75 Actually, most slingers were highly accurate, as they'd been doing it all their lives.
I remember that formations were never an issue either because they could rotate people as they skirmished.
26:50 I think throwing knives can be decent in close combat situations (for example in an inn or something like that) were you have one dagger/knife and another throwing one. You could switch extremely fast between throwing the one knife and then going on the offensive. That's about the best use I could think off when it comes to actually throwing a perfectly fine knife
Throwing knives are obviously designed for subtlety, not the battlefield.
Also helps to actually know how to throw them properly (Shad!) and actually putting a bit of power into the throw (Shad!)
It definitely seems like a useful trick. Of course like all tricks, it'll probably fail if they're prepared.
Here it is. If you are at war you should be carrying 3 types of knives, a survival knife, a small knife for eating, and a combat knife. Modern soldiers have the KBar that does all of it...but with this you can have a knife that can be thrown as well as all those other things. Very versatile. Also, there are more straight throwing methods for knife throwing and usually mostly done at max 10m and the various versions of them through history come in at times of ranged weaponry transitions. Mostly where reload times of the prevailing ranged weapons require a reloading time where a quickly deployed thrown weapon improves your ability to close the gap. Those transition times also coincide with time where armor was also in transition due to the advantages of the ranged weapons. Not the most effective thing in the world, but a really effective tool if employed exactly as you described. The most common use of thrown knives is to cover a retreat (same as shuriken were used by historical ninja), even if you miss the knives will find purchase in the mud and eventually the feet of your pursuers (since if you are running there is probably 1/2 and army on your ass). Learning to throw a knife while maintaining your run is actually no the hardest thing and can be done without being forced to present an open target, also very good for use from ambush, create a distant distracting sound, killing and skinning rabbits...but no, there were never and will never be a real primary weapon of any import.
Honestly throwing knives are good if you are good with them. I bet if you spent every day for 2 years practicing you would be a beast.
Not very useful in a fight though. Especially against someone in armor or shield.
@@johan.ohgren That's presuming you took throwing knives onto a battlefield...
@@johan.ohgren but it would be much more effective if you laced it with poison or hallucinogens, so if your good at chemistry or have pharmaceutical knowledge you can make a wounding weapon into a useful tool to disable/disorient or kill your opponent slowly
sounds like a nunchak argument tbh
@@johan.ohgren throw molotov at them, see how they would deal with it
The throwing knife's role is entertainment. In showy circus stunts. And it fills that role very well. They are optimized for it, even, in ways that make them lag as lethal combat weapons. Hard to use effectively? Good, less competition. Ringmaster can't just pull a chump off the street to do your job. Not super-lethal? That miscalculation while practicing your latest stunt has better odds of meaning a first-aid kit or a hospital visit instead of a funeral. Easy to see flying through the air? Well, yes, that's what the crowd is paying to see; a held moment of drama. Expensive? Meh, pay a premium. You're not gonna lose them; they're in that board with the target circle over there.
They still work as pretty good normal knives too. For when that lion tamer didn't tame the lion so well, you're one of the few people in the ring with a weapon.
Throwing weapons is one of the two topics I've been wanting Shad to cover, I'm glad he covered this. The over topic I would like to see is poison tipped weapons.
I know others have said this, but the Thorn method is a "no-spin" or "half-spin" method that I've had lots of success with, even with some modern combat knives not made for throwing. Definitely worth looking into, since I myself cannot (consistently) stick a knife through spinning, but can with no-spin throws.
Basically the only area I've used throwing knives in any of my game design concepts is when someone needs a highly concealable weapon. Because they are relatively simple in design, and can be quite flat, they are easier in some ways to conceal than a war dart. Though it's still basically a weapon that is exclusive to the 'sneaky' roguish types. Anyone else who wants a thrown weapon I tend to give something heavier and more lethal such as a tomahawk or javelin. And even that only if they have some justifiable reason for not wanting/being able to use a bow or crossbow.
Edit: Oh, I also gave a small satchel of throwing knives to a psion character who specializes in telekinetic attacks. So that's one other situation where I felt they made sense.
Hi Shad, when i was in the army (20 years ago) i used to practice alot with throwing knives and i become very good at it. I could throw them very fast and very accurate, i used to throw them at trees, and i tthrew them so hard that they would stuck very deep in the tree, which means that they have very good penetration.
Throwing knives can be very effective and lethal weapons, and it takes only few weeks to master them
Shuriken were typically as a distraction or general nuisance to the enemy. I’ve also heard of them being used as a landmine, stuck in the ground in thick grass or covered with brush.
wouldnt ball of spike do a better job if the purpose distraction and deadly lego steping
You mean like punji sticks
@@randomperson4198 in japanese history caltrops were called tetsubishi or metsubishi I believe
@@randomperson4198 a shuriken would have enough cutting surface to make a nasty laceration and possibly sever a toe. a caltrop's geometry makes sure one spike points upward, maximizing force. a ball of spikes would be the gentlest possible way to pierce someone, since the spikes are all arranged in a nice sphere and redistribute the force over a large area.
@@KairuHakubi yeah but what about if u throw them not all gonna stand straight and more likely wouldn't it fall flat?
I think probably the strongest point is that if you're going to be carrying a knife _anyway,_ choosing one that's well-balanced for throwing on the off-chance that it might come in handy is probably not going to hurt anything.
I'm beginning to think that Shad is confusing "Starting a family" with "Creating an army". At this rate his house will have it's own armored militia in a few years.
One of my earliest memories is of our cat bringing a copperhead on the porch as a gift, except it was still alive. My older brother about 16 at the time very quickly retrieved and threw a knife through the head of the snake pinning it to the porch. I might be a bit biased but since then I've always been convinced that if someone knows what they're doing, throwing knives can be a helluva tool.
That's so awesome. You must've really looked up at him!
Sounds like both the cat, and your brother, are badasses.
@@watchface6836 That cat brought home a live copperhead after all! insane
I agree with your assessment that they were used as a distraction. Either to create distance or to open a window of opportunity to close distance. Musashi suggested throwing his wakazashi and then closing distance and striking with his katana
Indeed. But the problem is you can throw any knife like that, not specificaly throwing one. Or indeed even a rock. And it will still be a distraction. Musashi is the example of this. But throwing knife is better than a regular stick or nunchaku or things like that. It's still a knife. Who says you have to throw it every time? And if you have 2 - 3 throwing knives on you, you can throw one, and use your second one as a close combat option.
It's funny how morden world think katana is a combat weapon but in actual past they were nothing more than show piece to signify royalty, status and need very high maintenance. They were only used either in small scale fighting like self protection against robbery, assault by other person or in fast execution of surrendered enemies or guilty by higher authority person.
@@kindle184 not sure if the usefulness of a katana is in question here, it was more a statement about using feints and distraction techniques to break an opponents guard, such as a thrown secondary weapon. I bring Mushashi up because he had lots to say on the subject, and happened to duel with a sword.
@@Member_zero Good points. I suspect the term "throwing knife" was an ad hoc title to describe a knife that you can afford to throw away (perhaps not a refined implement?). But I absolutely agree, it doesn't have to be one.
I've worked for an axe throwing range and threw a bunch of throwing knives as well. I'll try to answer a few of your points:
- After a while, you do get used to the distance you need with your technique. So you can have a subconscious idea of the right distance. Generally, if you miss the first throw (against an immobile target), you can easily readjust because you know whether you were too far or too close and by how much, so the next throws are all good.
-In terms of damage, you are correct, knives have to be perfectly thrown for lethality. I would highly suggest throwing axes for damage, these also have enough weight to deal damage even if you miss the blade during the throw.
-About the situation where you could throw one as a last ditch effort to save someone, I will actually have to downplay the usefulness of throwing knives compared to other weapons. Once you get used to throwing wepons, you can throw pretty much anything correctly if it is stiff enough. At my job, when there were no clients, we would throw axes, two-handed axes, machetes, knives, spears, kukris, a halberd (I own a voulge), etc. I even managed to stick a modern hammer to a target, I had to throw it in a way where the back of the hammer (the prybar part) would strike the target and penetrate. The hammer was definitely the most precis I ever had to throw something, it is much harder than throwing knives. The only thing I had trouble throwing correctly was swords, and that was because they are too flexible and will wobble a bit when thrown. So as long as something is stiff enough to not wobble, you can throw it if you understand the weight distribution. Throwing knives would be useful in a last ditch effort to save someone, but if I'm honest almost every other weapon would do so better. If however you want to keep your main weapon no matter what, then having throwing knives would serve well as a back-up weapon for that purpose.
-I agree about the distraction aspect. People don't like getting sharpened metal things thrown at them.
- They are really fun to throw!
one thing that REALLY should've been brought up is no (1/4) spin throwing- the knife does not spin, flies mostly straight which makes (short to medium) range damage much more reliable (and is much easier to learn)
I actually think having a few knives made to be throwable, as well as being regular hunting/campfire tools, with proper practice, could be incredibly useful in a fight.
With proper spin techniques, the knife *wont* spin much, if at all. before reaching the target.
Would it do a lot of damage? No, it might cause a minor scratch or put someone off. But with poisons or a quick follow up, it could be incredibly effective. I don't think it works as a primary weapon, but as a *tool* or *option* I think it could be invaluable to have extra ones. Importantly, you'd want to make sure you aren't just giving your opponent a weapon to use against you, so making sure they're personalized would matter a touch, meaning they wouldn't be a great option to arm a general infantry with, but elite soldiers or mercenaries could get use out of them I think.
For a bit of an anecdote, when I was in elementary (primary) school, I was at a friend's house. He had these plastic shurikens. They had rings on them to prevent injury, but we took those off cause we were stupid kids. My friend ended up throwing one at me as we were playing, and it stabbed into my arm. Extremely minor cut, I didn't even really need much of a bandage, but it still bled. If made of metal, it could have been a lot worse- but it's a fine conceptual proof. A thrown weapon can cause minor injuries, which can get you the edge you need in a close fight. Even just that bit of pain can be enough.
You should never rely on such a weapon in a real fight, certainly not for causing real damage. A wrench set would provide cheaper heavier more powerful throwing missiles that work regardless of a point forward hit.
That said, I think I can make several good cases for their inclusion as a defence tool. I won't bore you with the details but there's at least a dozen really good reasons to use these as other things that are not weapons. Practical uses that do not require any skill timing strength or anything else.
@@DailyCorvid I think you misunderstood completely. Relying on such a thing- like relying on any single tactic without flexibility- is a bad idea yes.
But having an *option* for a weapon or technique that , with proper practice, can be dangerous is never a bad thing.
The reason you'd use a knife over something ridiculous like a wrench is because of it's uses as a tool, aerodynamics, possible injuries, and weight/ease of carry.
yes, a wrench is a tool, but I don't think many knights, footsoldiers, or similar have a use for a wrench. It's certainly not aerodynamic and predictable when thrown, and it's heavy, badly weighted, and not exactly small.
It's just bounce of their armor lol
Just smack a dude with a great sword, much better than any throwing knife
@@A5tr0101 First off, armor is not foolproof nor all encompassing, or worn at all times. Second, obviously a greatsword will do more damage than a throwing knife, and more reliably when you land said strike.
But clearly you didn't actually read or care for any nuance that was stated in my original post, so I'll leave it at a very simple question and answer.
Does a man with a greatsword beat a man with a greatsword who has a knife lodged 2 inches into his elbow?
The answer: Not always, but he has a serious advantage now doesn't he?
Knife throwing is easily one of my favorite weapon topics simple because i think of all the different kinds of knives i've seen, historical and modern, real and fantasy, and i imagine all the different ways they would all fly in various different throws.
i'm a blade enthusiast but knifes are my favorite subject so i really feel at home in your videos on the topic.
Loved the video and i have nothing to dispute, but i will recommend another youtuber who could probably paint a better picture.
Adam Celadin is an amazing knife thrower whose videos could give you a lot more insight to what i think is called "Instinctive knife throwing".
In his videos, Adam is often using either dead trees as targets or places out his own in various positions and angles, using the natural terrain to his advantage/disadvantage and runs or jumps in from several different directions to throw a variety of knives.
he talks about how to count and feel the distance for spinning throws and how to throw with less or more spin for targets both closer and farther away.
He talks about many different throwing techniques, how some ways are easier than others, and how to become better at one or more.
most notably, he teaches the "no-spin throw" which i think you'll have some interesting thoughts on.
Thank you my friend ,))
@@AdamCeladin The man himself!
You're very welcome, always happy to spread this knowledge and skill.
Please tell me this may lead to where i hope it does, it would be absolutely epic!
@@ZickaN13 Yes i made the respond video on this topic ,))) Cheers
@@AdamCeladin So you did, and i somehow did'nt watch it until now.
Fantastic video as always and a great response!
I did hope for a full meetup collab but this is plenty.
Cant wait to see what both of you do next!
@@ZickaN13 thank you my friend 😎
shad nomming cereal with his kids as a sponsorship is the most wholesome thing. So cute!
I have always thought of throwing knives as a distraction to dissuade people from chasing you, much like caltrops, shuriken, egg-shell bombs and the like.
Hadn’t even got to the end of the video wen I posted this! Well chuffed Shad came to the same conclusion! 😂
Fun fact: Kunai were actually primarily used as a trowel, and in case of ninja to make holes in a wall etc. Ninja sharpened them to use also as a makeshift weapon, and while they could be thrown they were more commonly used like a regular dagger.
@@Shadeius my old sensai told me that the types of knives used in this video could also be stabbed into trees and used as foot holds for climbing, don’t know how true that is 😆
Some Russians in particular are fairly infamous for their love to use them as surprise close-range weapons... With your opponent approaching with, say, a regular knife (or just open hands or fists or whatever), draw that hidden throwing knife and throw it in one smooth move when they're about 1m or so away and getting ready to slice or stab you. No dodging, no blocking, and at that distance, pretty much impossible to miss. Basically, really dirty streetfighting weapons.
Hi Shad! Loved the video, you bring up a lot of good points. I've been practicing Kali for the past two years where we fight using knives quite a bit, and we've explored and practiced throwing them quite a lot (although we mainly do try and hang on to them). In my experience, we do occasionally throw them, but only under very specific circumstances.
The main problem is that if you throw a knife from more than a few feet away, it is very possible for a trained opponent to dodge it, block it with a shield, or even knock it aside with a sword. I've seen it done many times. You can, however, throw them from very short distances. The only use we've found is that if you throw a knife at very close range it can be useful because it's unexpected and difficult to counter. The idea is that when you're in melee combat, but maintaining distance and don't want to get in too close to avoid into a grapple with the knives, it can be useful to quickly pitch the knife at the opponent from about a meter away, just out of normal range of a one-handed melee weapon. It uses just a quarter spin so that it will always hit right on the point. It's actually quite easy to get good penetration into an unarmored or lightly armored target from that range, with just a little bit of practice. You can do it with longer weapons as well, although the weight is a bit different.
Of course, this only works if you have another weapon, since once you throw it you don't have it anymore, but knives are small enough that we often practice carrying two or three of them so that you can just quickly draw another while guarding yourself with your a second weapon or a shield in the other hand.
In terms of whether anyone would actually do it in warfare, it seems unlikely. Ideally I would rather just have a longer weapon like a javelin. But if I just happened to have a knife for some other purpose, or was carrying something small for self-defense, then I would absolutely consider throwing it under the right circumstances, since if I'm at about a meter I can pretty consistently hit the heart, which could be effective depending on what sort of weapons an attacker might have.
I would never throw it at the kind of distances you were trying though. At that point you're better off hanging onto it and just moving in to fight closer or else running away if that's an option.
That is an amazingly interesting reply! My only point of concern would be why someone would just happen to have a dagger(s) on their person (added weight) and would they be able to usefully incorporate them at a moments' notice in combat; like, are they so easy to grab from wherever they are stored and does the person have to drop shield/weapon just to get it. (I expect the answer to both can certainly be "yes", but feel that it would still be a rather rare situation in real life.)
@@JarieSuicune It's not so much that a person would be carrying a sword and shield and then put one down to grab a dagger. It's more that a person might have a dagger for some other purpose, either for its utility or for self-defense. Simply put, I don't carry a sword around all the time, because it would be difficult to conceal, heavy, and generally a pretty weird thing to do. But could I carry a folding knife or even a small fixed-blade knife around on my person? Totally! (Speaking as someone from the USA where this is legal and in some places quite normal)
Of course, I would always rather have a weapon like a sword as compared to a knife, and if I had a longer weapon then there would be no reason why I would be reaching for a dagger (unless the weapon was one-handed and I didn't have a shield). But sometimes, for either legal or cultural reasons, carrying around a larger weapon is impractical. So in that case a person might only have a smaller dagger, or perhaps would have a one-handed weapon and a free hand that could draw a dagger. And when you have a small, expendable weapon like a dagger, then it may be worthwhile to throw it from very close range if there is a good opening and an opponent doesn't expect it.
That's also why I said it is unlikely medieval soldiers would have done this on the battlefield, as they would be potentially dropping a more useful piece of equipment such as a shield in order to hold a dagger in one hand. It may have happened sometimes, I know that people used things like parrying daggers in conjunction with rapiers in the 16th century. You could make an argument for throwing those I suppose. But I'm not personally familiar with any major conflicts in which that sort of fighting style was common.
They never brought up the historicity of throwing knives and how people may have actually used small concealed throwing weapons in combat.
The ninja *_(which we actually know nothing about because a lot of the information we have about ninjas was either created at some point to exist as part of a deliberate misinformation campaign or created at some point much later based on the mystery of the ninja in their time period)_* used throwing weapons as tools of distraction. Let's say there are a bunch of guys with swords hanging out some place where you don't want them to hang out. You throw a bunch of knives at them and run into the woods when they try to chase you down. While they're chasing you down your buddy is able to take care of whatever business they had to take care of that they didn't want those guys around to see. This is a rough example of how some historians thought ninjas would use throwing weapons or shuriken. Other examples include the administration of poison at a distance or just having an object on hand that you could throw in an assailant's face in a fight.
In India they have chakrams. Those were used in war but off the top of my head I believe they were also used by shepherds to chase off wild animals.
Throwing weapons aren't useful weapons because they're not particularly good at killing people. However, they could've been useful tools if your goals were something other than violence for the sake of killing.
This is the same as the nunchuck debate. Nunchuks were invented for when you wanted a weapon on your person but you had to be some place where swords weren't permitted. If you analyze a weapon/tool for a purpose it wasn't intended for then of course you're going to come to the conclusion that it's not useful, you're looking at it through the wrong lens. It's a little bit like evaluating a screwdriver on its merit as a hammer.
"people may have actually used small concealed throwing weapons in combat"... May have. Your argument is based on a possibility. Which, sure, it IS a possibility, and almost definitely DID happen from time to time. But to assume that automatically means it was viable enough to be a MAJOR or NOTABLE condition? Seriously?
"Nunchuks were invented for when you wanted a weapon on your person but you had to be some place where swords weren't permitted." Source? I have never heard that claim ever. Also, why would you spend SO MUCH TIME mastering Nunchucks when you could take a staff, club, etc. non-sword weapon that was much easier to learn and obtain?
@@JarieSuicune the nunchaku debate isn’t really relevant and it’s a debate in historical circles as well, but you can still break it down logically. Long sticks are cumbersome, they become more compact if you break them in half. Attaching both lengths by chain retains the reach of having a long stick. As a weapon, its only advantage is convenience. If you’re evaluating its effectiveness as a weapon it’s subpar, but if you evaluate other aspects of its design then it seems more advantageous. It’s not a question of usefulness, but applicability.
Also, just read your first paragraph back to yourself. If we can agree that people in history likely did something, then we can agree that there must have been a reason for it. We may not agree about what that reason is, but we must agree that a reason must exist. People in history weren’t stupid, they mostly acted rationally and logically. At times we just don’t relate to that logic and rationale. If people in history threw knives as weapons, then they had to think it was useful. If we determine that throwing knives weren’t more useful as weapons than other alternatives then we must look elsewhere to explain their behavior.
As an aside, throwing knives likely didn’t exist as weapons in history. The items Shad has in the video and the methods he used to apply them likely do not resemble anything that was applied in combat throughout history.
However, people did engage into combat with small hand-thrown projectiles. We can extrapolate reasons as to why. It’s likely that the primary reasons were not related to how good they were at killing people.
@@viciousclam2417 You know what you also have with two pieces of wood? TWO STICKS! And nunchucks are garbage.
@@ChristophBrinkmann But what if I don't want to carry two sticks? What if I want to carry a long stick but I don't want one of my hands full when I walk around?
This is what I'm talking about, it doesn't make any sense to bring up tangentially relevant information and pretend it actually comes into play when you don't actually think about it beyond trying to use the information to service your point. Nunchuks are bad weapons, that doesn't mean we can't analyze their use cases from a historical educational perspective.
You guys are so busy meming on it that it's not fun anymore for people who'd rather engage in the dialogue. It's fine to go along with the meme, but some people are just trying to engage with the conversation.
@@viciousclam2417 Then carry a longer stick, which, as Shad already proved, PROVED, you can EASILY conceal.
His reactions to him hypothetically fighting himself are awesomely subscribed.
"Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it."
Plus, as Shad pointed out, more likely to have a knife (not just specifically-made throwing knives) in your equipment, seeing as how it's a multi-purpose tool.
I think there might another situation when you could use them: when you're just dealt finishing blow to someone with a sword and you see another enemy drawing a bow and you know you don't have time to get behind a cover
Sincerely by that point just throw a rock while rushing them.
@@Juanito_Pecados are you carrying rocks in your pocket? or do you have to first find a rock, bend over picking it up, then standing back up to then throw and charge?
that sounds like you're getting stuck with an arrow before you can throw the rock, the knife is at least already on your hip and a lot faster and smoother to grab and throw.
@@atk9989 In that case just have a pouch with rocks, or find cover/move first... Which tends to be the best option anyway.
Adam Celandin (world champion knife thrower) has made a response video to this! Exciting!
He has some awesome content also and great tips if anyone wants to learn knife throwing.
Shad: "I found these throwing knives that are much better than the normal ones"
_they are bloody kunai_
Also, you are thinking this the wrong way. Throwing daggers serve best as distractions when retreating or escaping. That's what Shuriken were used for, worst they can do is hit an eye and thus immobilise someone (possibly blinding them permanently).
Did you watch even half the video?
@@kangarumpy Yes I did. Chad focuses on their lethality and even when mentioning distraction, it's as an alternative backup during combat. I'm saying they were not *meant* to be used in combat, they are Ninja weapons.
It would be nice if Shad looked at weapons from more viewpoints than that of a medieval adventurer.
@@bologna3048 Well, a ninja is an assassin, not a soldier.
@@MythosTheSophist They a spy not a assassin.
@@MythosTheSophist , a good assassin kills his target before needing a distraction.
Now I’m imagining someone like Shad advising the studio responsible for Arcane on the combat for Jax, the weapon master who limits himself by only using shitty and/or improvised weapons.
As you continue this seemingly unintentional 'reviews of classic ninja weapons' series of , I'd love to see Rope Darts examined. I really wonder if it will end up in the same category as Nunchauks given the capacity to injure the user.
I'd say the Rope Dart (or if we're talking about ninja tools, we're more likely talking about the kusari) is not the best as a weapon, but has good utility in that it's basically a rope and a small knife put together.
I'd argue the kusarigama is a fairly good weapon though.
It's a Kama, a farming sickle repurposed and later rebuilt as a weapon, which is not the hardest thing to use, it certainly cuts which is good, and the angle of the blade allows for deep puncture and gash wounds with each swing that can probably go through some lighter armors.
And then it also has a long metal chain on opposite end to the blade. It doesn't really offer much in terms of lethal force, but you can bind opponents with it to restrict and somewhat control their movement or flat-out strangle them at a slight distance.
I mean, it’s basically a knife that you can retrieve more easily when thrown that has rotation centered around you as opposed to the knive’s center of mass. As long as you don’t whip it around I’d go with slightly behind a dagger, since you have the rope to deal with, and safely reeling it in for melee and transferring the rope is probably too slow to be practical. This comes from a guy who has messed with tennis ball mock up and used a tie down as an analogue while wearing a motorcycle helmet and similar protection. It’s not complete shit, but you would be better served with just a sling, a knife, and a pocket of large pebbles.
Adam Celandin (world champion knife thrower) has made a response video to this! Exciting!
He has some awesome content also and great tips if anyone wants to learn knife throwing.
@@claylilac Short kusarigama (800-1600mm overall length) are very underrated. They are easily carried/concealed, rapidly deployed, and can do considerable damage, change of application/uses during a conflict, extend reach yet do not leave a close-range hole such as spears and long-swords/sticks; they do lack in the 'stabbing/thrusting' dept, and are shite for throwing, but are very good in many other ways; also given even a slim chance/range someone adept at suddenly whipping around a weight on the end of a chain/cord is quite unnerving. In an average situation, rooms/corridors, scrub/vegetation, not too-cramped melee, they have much to recommend them.
Kama, while good in unarmoured/close combat, have seriously injured practitioners in training due to the unfortunate accidental snagging that comes with the deliberate proximal movements used; as the cutting edge is 'inwards' the movements tend to be cross-body and hooking in nature. Kama remind me more of an extended form of a karambit (itself, I suspect, a re-purposed form of hand-sickle).
I'd like to see Shad, using his 'medieval swords/pole-arms', go up against someone adept with Chinese war-sword and naginata etc.
I always thought this would be assassins weapons. As you said, armor would render this pretty useless, but if you are aiming for a civilian target, this ones could work really well.
You need to get somewhere close to aim, but you already need this to confirm your target in most cases. A civilian with no armor get's hit in the neck or some other vital organ ( or the knife is poisoned ), dies, and because there is some distance between you and him, you can now run away and escape with some margin of advantage. Add to this a note tied at the end of the knife, and you have a perfect "medieval mafia" scenario. This would also solve the "it wouldn't be economical to lose so many knifes" because an assassin can probably hit the target with only one or two, and i'm sure a bounty for killing would easily outweight the cost of the weapon.
I had the exact same thoughts. Only thing I would add tho is that it can also be easily hidden.
Came here to say the same thing. And to add to "PleasantThoughs" comment about keeping it hidden, it is also easier to carry. If you are looking for a "ranged" weapon and you need to climb over things, and sneak to an awkward vantage point, carrying a bow or a spear would be challenging.
Allows discretion, not cumbersome, silent, lethal for a non-armored unexpecting target, can be used from hiding (ranged)... sounds like a good assassin weapon.
Sure a plumbata would do that too, but that assumes you are in a setting where people know about plumbatas... and I certainly hadn't heard of those before now.
Lmao what
Throwing knife won't kill anyone, at least 99% of the time lol
Not to mention low accuracy and range makes them completely useless for assassinations
@@Archimedes.5000 there are techniques that make them highly accurate with the cost of a bit of range by reducing how much they spin
idk what your talking about to be honest they more lethal then only 1%
yes without poison you have to hit a artery and cause heavy bleeding to kill someone but most assassins use poisons to point in fantasy setting you could prick someone with a tooth pick and kill them with a strong enough dose of poison (i think even some real world ones are that strong but don't know how long they last in open air and all that)
@@reddragon9064 "highly accurate" compared to usual knife thowing techiques, not to other projectile weapons like bows, crossbows or even darts
And sorry but poisoning someone is usually not as easy as just grazing someone with a "poison coated" knife, especially if your opponent isn't completely naked
So my first issue with this is, like others have commented, no spin or straight throwing is preferable as not only is the tip far more likely to hit your throw also wont be losing any momentum from the spin. Secondly, knives like this simply arent practical for long to mid range use. Its just not their forte. The real use and practicality of these knives is in close to mid range combat. Basically if youre in a knife fight, and you have a throwing knife that you can quickly and reliably throw, youre not losing that fight in any situation short of were you mess up or your opponent knows what youre up to. Really these knives should be used to replace a knife that would otherwise be used for close combat self defense. Theyre decent knives as just knives, and the shape and packaging of the knives makes it so theres not much difference between concealing one and concealing three on you. In a close combat fight were you can take someone out from a few feet away with an unexpected and unforseen throw is a huge advantage. Being able to no spin throw from multiple angles of movement is also essential as it could be done in the heat of a fight. Outside a knife vs knife fight being able to reliably impale someone from, for me personally, say about seven or eight feet away is a huge advantage against other weapons that would otherwise be primarily used for melee with a range of three to five feet at most typically. If you want to see this in action i can send you a demonstration video. Im no expert but i think even at my level you can see the advantage of it
Let's break this down.
First of all, I agree that throwing knives are a "cool factor weapon", that have little to no place in a battlefield context. I am also writing this comment while watching and pausing the video, so I might sound repetitive or point things out that Shad is already aware of.
Point number 1 "There are a lot of bad (lightweight) knives."
Well there are a lot of crappy wall hanger swords. As toys they are fun and cool but nobody with any martial experience is going to use them over good quality weapons.
Point #2 "They are more dodge-able."
Yes, and it is my opinion that a throwing knife is best used within 2-5 paces to force your opponent to doge/flinch and lose momentum or stance. It would be an opening move with a fallow up tactic, that could very well inflict an injury on your opponent before you enter a melee conflict.
Point #3 "Much slower velocity"
Yes generally. But speed can improve with skill and knives can be thrown much faster at closer targets "2-5 paces". Also consider how small and simple the knife is compared to javelins, arrows, and even a throwing axe. It is a short length of steel with a pointy end. Pretty easy to come by, and pretty easy to conceal. The Plumbata is a decent comparison, definitely having the upper hand when it comes to thrown lethality, but it is slightly more complex an object and lacks any other meaningful utility that a knife might have.
Point #4 "short range."
Valid point when comparing to range weapons. Nul point when compared to melee weapons. As previously stated I agree that the throwing knife is not very useful outside of a few paces distance. But it can be a great tactical tool in a system that includes more tools.
Point #5 "ninja stars are extra dumb throwing knives."
Yes
Point #6 "Why waste a knife by throwing it?"
2-5 paces. And throwing knives can be a balance of utility and specialized. Some models are simply spikes, some are basically daggers with throwing ergonomics. If you are rich, why not throw a few knives? If you are poor, you can use a sharpened skrewdriver.
Point #7 "Are they as bad as nunchucks?"
No, not in any world. They beat a stick of the same size, and they are better than nothing. They may have slip/ergonomic issues when used in melee, but they don't often hurt their user. I will concede that if you only had one and no other weapon and some force of nature was keeping you from using it in melee, then it would only be slightly better than having nothing... But that's a ridiculous scenario that we don't even see in fantasy depictions.
Point #7 "It takes too much skill to be lethal"
True. But I would say that the throwing knife takes minimal skill to give you a meaningful advantage in a melee struggle. When distance is closing you can stop, slow, deter, distract, and/or mame your enemy before it comes to blows. Then your second knife can go into his vitals by hand. If you can stick a screwdriver in the ground 2 paces in front of you you can stick a knife into a person. I understand that under fear and adrenaline this would become more difficult, but so would anything technical.
Point #8 "It would not do well against armor."
I'm not sure about this one. Plate, yes, it would bounce off. But in my experience, when I have thrown decent throwing knives into wood (not quite maile or gambeson), I have found that they go in deeper than I can stab them into the wood by hand. This makes me question if they are entirely useless against light armor.
Point #9 "Could be very good in a specific use."
Yep. This is exactly my idea. Consider a non battlefield context, where everyone is equipped with at most a knife or two. Perhaps a city with stringent weapon laws. A throwing knife in that context is a powerful tactical tool, and much more fashionable than a Plumbata, or a rock hanging off your belt.
Point #10 "You won't have time."
If you don't have time to draw and throw, then you definitely don't have time to draw, string, draw, nock, draw, aim, and shoot. So yes, you would have to be ready to throw before your opponent enters you range. Also I believe the 20 meters is a statistical number that indicates whether or not your opponent reaches you. In this scenario you are anticipating melee combat.
Point #11 "They are only useful in specific circumstances."
Yes, much like the flail, man catcher, sling, lantern, quarterstaff, sword breaker...
Point #12 "They are heavy and a character that uses a lot of them would be weighed down"
I agree. 3 knives is more than enough for most knife throwing circumstances. Having a bunch of throwing knives is cool for ultra skilled fantasy characters, but is entirely impractical.
Point #13 "Worse than actual battlefield weapons in a battlefield context."
Yup.
So, for the battlefield warrior, throwing knives? No.
For the Medieval urban rogue or crafty dualist? I think yes.
For the backyard Ninja? Absolutely!
Point #8 - It's often my main point and I do the live demo for friends, asking them to stab wood with 2 hands the harder they can... Then stick it twice as deep when throwing.
It would be cool to see some tests with some good specialized throwing knives, no/half spin technique, and actual armor. Even just some textiles. Just so long as they don't use the knives from this video. Not ideal throwers.
Infiltration Tool, not a battlefield weapon. Was always my thought. You might use it on a unarmoured foe, who was alerted to your ambush, and it would give you the time needed to draw a proper blade.
I guess, as far as I know, most throwing weapons of similar shape and weight were used for distraction to then attack, but im some contexts I feel that a rock would be equally as useful.
I adore throwing knives, but I have the aim of a crippled sea lion.
I didn't think that analogy made sense either, but it's still true.
I have had some similar "throwing" knives for a long time. I like to use them as basic utility knives. When camping, several fit in a slim sheath. If one is dull, I have several others to use. So I can put sharpening off until it is more convenient. They are cheap enough, and I have backups, that I don't care if I have to sacrifice one using a knife improperly. They can also be a great distraction tool. Not for combat but for yourself and friends.
The part with Shad spiting out the water made me laugh more than it should have xD.
These knives seem very portable. Very slim, flat, no crossguard. So keeping two or three around for specific situations could be a good thing for your traveling adventurer?
The fact you're talking about spinning and being primary weapons checked me out. In combat throwing knives were usually blade heavy so they DIDN'T spin, they spun about 180 or 0 degrees depending if they were thrown by blade or grip (different knives, different technique). And yes, they can be dodged, and yes, they can be deflected by armor or shields or whatever, so can anything. The point of knives being thrown is, as far as anyone I know that's been trained to do so, threefold: 1) to put the opponent out of position or stop them for a moment (you're charging someone, they whip a knife at your face, you have to dodge, duck behind your shield, flinch, etc), also known as Suppression (as you note). 2) To inflict an injury that stands a very good chance of getting infected, remembering any foe injured is a foe off the field and with medical care what it was in many ancient fields of war, that's a very good chance of a death or permanent injury. And 3) to assassinate, typically via poison against an unsuspecting, likely unarmored foe. Some would add 4) a knife, with all applicable uses, which has the option to be thrown. They're small, you can carry three on your belt for little bulk, they're easy to smuggle where they're not wanted, EVERYONE carried a knife in some eras and places, and they could let you escape like a Derringer can: nobody expects you to kill with one but the threat is there. There's a reason most militaries still teach people to throw knives (PROPERLY, not this tumbling nonsense). Also, please note unarmored HORSES do not like getting hit in the neck or chest with a knife, especially when they're running full tilt. They're not meant to be primary tools, and ditch the spinning clown throw. Even Jason Statham's character doesn't throw spinning knives. Throwing knives are still in use... plumbata aren't. Throw them straight and you will get a meaty thwack on impact if your arms aren't noodles. And yes, they need training... that's what soldiers do. You get them out fast and you hit a close target, that's their use.
No.. just no. There is no way anyone ever threw knives in real life combat as a legitimate technique. The way you talk about it, makes it sound like you learned everything from Dark Souls.
@@Indeterminite I .... What?
@@Indeterminite Saying 'nobody ever threw knives' is like saying 'nobody ever used a sidearm'. If you can't see how a sharp object coming at your face tip first will make an effect in combat, then nobody has ever thrown a spear, an axe, a dart, or even in desperation a primary cutting weapon at someone as a legitimate combat technique, nor has anyone ever fired an arrow or ballista bolt, or for that matter a bullet, which is essentially just high speed stabbing with a chemically propelled object. You've also clearly never been stabbed or cut in your life if you don't see how a knife can give you an edge in combat. Sticking a person in the thigh or gashing their face from outside of their reach or forcing them to dodge or deflect the blow all have advantage for you as you close. Get over the spinning clownshow throwing here: real throwing knives fly blade first and usually on a pretty straight trajectory. Oh, and end point: you'll notice nobody volunteered to have a knife thrown at them. You know, because they might get HURT. You think nobody in HISTORY has decided 'hm, hurting people like that could be useful!'? Yeesh, kids.
Giving this a quick thought it seems to me that the point of throwing knives (no pun intended) is to either distract your opponent (as mentioned) or even incapacitate rather than kill them.
5:27 is so heart warming. May God bless your family and all families.
"Bullets don't explode"
Me: OKAY LET ME INTRODUCE YOU TO MY FRIEND INCENDIARY ROUNDS... (They explode)
dont forget HE rounds
In my experience, throwing knives are very difficult to use precisely and consistently (as Shad demonstrated in the beginning of the video). I would be interested in seeing Shad's take on throwing axes (such as the tomahawk). Knives have generally smaller rotations that are influenced by small changes in grip and release and ultimately have less mass. Throwing an axe generally involves a larger rotation that allows for more precise estimation of how it will land. Even on the case of over/under rotation the mass of an axe when thrown with lethal intent is usually enough to knock a person down.
Double headed tomahawk basically ensures your success
Francisca's were used in medieval era. They could split shields even if they missed.
@@arcanearcher13 Wait, how? Only one side is going to be facing "towards" the target. The other is always facing away. Or is the other blade on the opposite end of the shaft?? Because that sounds like a nightmare to try to wield or even carry around effectively.
Kyle to throw a knife right for competition or combat you are using one of the methods of no spin. Yes most people when they attempt the throw a knife spin the hell out of it just like shad did and wonder why its not working. More the knife spins less time the point is on target. Correctly thrown in the different no spin methods the point is on target from 25% to 80% of the throwing distance. Yes combat taught methods did go closer to 80% on target. Yes been point on target for 80% of distance does give a lot of + and -.
The common combat item taught to be thrown using no spin is the metal crossbow bolt(yes in the historic training manuals) and the japan weapon that looks the same as in being a round bar with a point. Yes you been over run with crossbow you have metal bolts instead of loading them when attacker is under 20 meters you throw them done right they are lethal. You are right small changes in grip and release alter how knife/bolt behave not using a no spin method gives you way smaller margin of error. Yes using a spin method you margin of error drops to point that its useless in combat because the target cannot move because you need to know the target exact distance because the point is no on target long enough. The difference between no spin and spin with a knife/bolt is huge.
Spinning a knife/bolt in combat is basically equal to telegraphing you attacks with a sword in combat because its not going to work out.
@@JarieSuicune it makes sense if you get out of your head and just throw one. You are overthinking it and sheaths are high quality now.
Oh no, Shad is so close to the target they could throw knives at him!
I still recommend that Shad read John Flanagan's Ranger's Apprentice. The books are for youth, but in my mind they mark a change in the idea of fantasy. He is not perfect, but he tries so hard to make them historically based. They are cool.
I do too! Ranger's Apprentice is easily one of my favorite series'. And I know, the books are cool.
Here's the best use for a throwing knife:
"Your opponent can't press a button if he can't hold his hand!"
Some thoughts.
1. Dodging something is easy only when you expect it. Keeping a throwing knife hidden till thrown could make it more danherous.
2. One advantage of throwing a knife compared to using it in close combat is: You aren't in close combat. You can use it from up on a tree, while running away to hinder a pursuer, or keep your distance to someone who has no ranged option right now.
Though for running away myself in the sort of classic ninja tradition sense I'd have just preferred caltrops (called the makibishi) or a smokebomb over throwing a knife.
From a tree? lmao the mental image of that is hilarious. Where would you go after you throw it?
Or throw it to someone who HAS ranged option, for example, aiming at you with crossbow from close distance and you don't want him to shoot this crossbow.
I like the points made here it also makes a lot of sense to have multiple knives as a secondary option maybe just not throw the last one 🤷♂️ and as with any weapon it just requires practice just maybe a little more than some others
Gaijin Goombah has talked about throwing knives and shuriken a bunch of times. They were mainly used as small, concealable hand weapons or tools (kunai like the ones in this video were used more as a small spade or piton, for example), and only thrown as a distraction, either to escape or as part of an ambush, or occasionally to deliver a poison. Really, any weapon that can be defeated by stepping slightly to one side isn't a particularly good weapon, especially in the case of ninjas or assassins, where on top of the other problems now you're leaving _evidence_ behind.
Oh I remember that guy! He helped me learn that Ninjas wouldn’t try or want to get into fights and would wear blue or dark blue or white to blend in and not look suspicious.
Here's my assessment of throwing weapons, having tried mostly throwing an axe. 1) It was fun! 2) It would take LOTS of practice to get consistent even while just standing and throwing at a target much less in real combat while you're both moving. 3) Even if you got really good, I still feel like they'd only be great at specific distances (having to account for the rotation and all, there's always a period in the rotation where the weapon is blunt; this ratio is basically always going to be the same no matter how fast the rotation so you're actually more likely to hit with a slower rotation, but you still need enough rotation to apply force...anyways, I could go on and on about this part...) 4) you're probably better off just throwing rocks, and suddenly a sling looks like a decent weapon lol.
Slings actually were used historically as good weapons. They can absolutely kill someone. Shepherds used to use them to defend their livestock.
I was (Was = damn you Parkinson's) really good at the underhanded no-spin throw. It is a bit hard on the shoulder, in the way throwing a baseball is. And yes. I did spend many "idle" hours flicking knives and jeets (4 to 6 inch rods with a pointy end) into a board. I had trouble getting a deep hit past sixteen feet. Overhand was no problem, but accuracy suffered.
Adam Celandin (world champion knife thrower) has made a response video to this! Exciting!
He has some awesome content also and great tips if anyone wants to learn knife throwing.
@@riftalope same here! I used to be really good at underhand when I was young, got a lot of knifes stuck on trees from quite a distance. The problem for me with throwing knifes is that.... you miss it, you're out of a knife hahaha so not really combat reliable.
@The Salty Constitutionalist
Keep on throwing! 😁
As with any skill, it just takes time and patience to master.
I’m working on a response video as we speak. I’m not a champion or anything. I’m an average guy who knows a bit about knife throwing. And I use it around here on my farm especially against rats. 😆 they are always getting into the grain. I love your videos and highly respect you and agree with a few things that you are saying but see a things a different way.
I think it’s time Shad learns that just because HE can’t do something doesn’t mean it’s impractical. Lately anytime he says something “sucks” or doesn’t work, he completely ignores the fact that he’s the only person he’s testing things out on, and he doesn’t factor in his own physical limitations or lack of training
You are exactly right!
Regardless, why would you train on this when any other weapon would be more useful is the point. In older times you had to train up peasants. Its far easier and more effective to train on real weapons. Not the flashy ones.
This was like a blind man shooting a gun and then complaining about the gun when he missed.
If the only thing a thrown knife is good for is distracting the enemy or making them flinch, then you don't even need a knife specifically designed to be thrown. You could just pull out your dagger and throw that because it's not gonna be lethal either way.
Actually, you could throw just about anything and get the same effect if they don't know what it is you're throwing before it hits them. A pen, a bottle, a box of TicTacs, anything could cause someone to flinch if you throw it at them.
And if you want to throw something that will actually cause damage, you could just throw a rock.
That intro was very enjoyable!
I got really good with throwing axes once upon a time, but never tried knives. It was in my scout days for jamboree. My troop always won the axe throwing because we practiced a lot. If it was a role playing game, skill levels 1,2,3 would take a long time to gain. Additional levels easier. I assume knives would be the same.