I am 15 minutes in and I really enjoy this. I think it is really cool that you reenact the moves. It is very refreshing to look at and gives me a more clear view in what you are referring to. Please keep doing these videos!
Emil Lerner obi wan isn’t trying to kill anakin until the second half of the fight, where they have a little exchange and he says “well then you are truly lost!”. Until then obi wan was simply trying to disarm anakin. But he realizes that the only way to stop him is to kill him.
Another pattern I am picking up on is that the spins that Obi Wan uses are also allowing him to pivot between his feet while moving backwards during the high guards, I don't know if there is a better way to retreat while maintaining momentum and your guard especially against heavy/impassioned blows such as the ones that Anakin is using.
I agree. People can critisize many things but I don't think anyone can realistically say Hayden and Ewan did not care about their performances or the characters. They clearly did and worked to extreme levels to bring what they could to the screen.
And poor Hayden gets so much flak... I absolutely love his anakin. Sure, the dialog isnt perfect but he did what he could with it. His emotional and physical performances were really really great though.
Also why later in the fight the pauses make logical sense, and why there are a bit more frequent of mistakes (both in story and the actors themselves.) They are simply getting worn out
@@zzodysseuszz I disagree with this part, what maul wanted to do was hit Obi wan with the hilt of his double lightsaber, just like how he defeated Qui Gon, but Obi wan deliberately took his master's stance so as to lure him in and finish him off with one blow
@@ChillyCharizard006 when someone criticizes something normally you'd expect it to realize how horrible something is. But this showed how much effort they put in to the fight scene compared to the last jedi throne room
Lowkey Arki OHHHH... for some reason my mind wasn't processing TLJ throneroom fight, even though that's LITERALLY what you said... And after the mentions it multiple times in the video. I feel stupid now lol. Yes totally agree.
@@revbladez5773 It seems like quite a bit. You can watch the actors go through the drills on UA-cam if you like. It looks really neat to know they could do all the moves.
I know from a technical perspective Obi-Wan makes mistakes not striking when he has an open opportunity but from a lore perspective it actually makes sense. For a majority of the fight Obi-Wan is intentionally not taking these opportunities as he doesn't actually want to kill Anakin instead defending himself and trying to find an opening to disarm Anakin and end the fight without having to take his life. Only later in the fight realizing that due to Anakin's skill and the fact that they are so familiar with each others fighting styles, as they have been fighting along side one another for years, the only way Obi-Wan can end the fight is by killing Anakin.
Let me say something about the, "I have the high ground" scene; I genuinely don't believe Obi Wan believes he has the advantage. I think it's a taunt, a challenge. He is trying to provoke Anikan and he falls for it exactly as Obi Wan expects because he knows Anikan believes himself to be superior. It's just a mind game.
Actually, it is because he knows Anakin will try to do the same move on him that he did on Maul: the jump and flip over him. The jump obi wan does on maul and the one anakin does on obi wan are identical, except in the latter situation, obi wan knows exactly whats up and...yea
Obi Wan: _waves hand_ You *will* jump at me Anakin: Are you trying to do a mind trick? Obi Wan: _waves hand more insistently_ You *will* jump at me. You *will*-blast it, why is Master Qui Gonn’s training failing me?! Anakin: I’m still gonna jump though. *AAAAHHHH*
“A higher guard position is preferable to a lower one” “This spin Anakin did wasn’t horrible since it kinda made sense” *smiles in High Ground and Good Trick*
I believe the "Canon" reason for the fight becoming more unconventional later, is both Obi-Wan and Anakin realizing they're to familiar with each other and start to make false openings to bait the other.
The high ground scene. Obi-Wan was baiting Anakin to take the high ground, that's the whole point. Obi-Wan even said to not try it.But Anakin did it anyway and took the bait and got maimed.
I was a dumb highschool student when I first watched this fight and all I took home from this was it was a cool flashy fight. Seeing it frame by frame seeing Hayden's face during the whole fight, my goodness Hayden is a terrific actor. Through all the physical exertion he is still conveying all the anger Anakin has. Its kinda sad that he received a crap ton of flack due to the garbage dialogue. Ewan isnt really half bad as well, he looks like he is in pain during this fight.
Ewan acted circles around Hayden. Hayden was good with aggressive, brooding emotions but the lighter dialogue where vulnerability required he was awful. His scenes with Natalie were some of the worst delivered lines in cinema and made him seem robotic and very 2 dimensional.
I love this breakdown, but I think one thing you're disregarding is that as the fight goes on, their moves deliberately get more sloppy and telegraphed because they're getting TIRED. As an ex-fencer myself, the longer the matches wore on, the sloppier my opponent and myself got because our legs were aching from our guard position and our arms felt like lead from holding it outward. It's really impossible to contend with.
@Mk. 5II33II4N So? They're still human. It's not like they have unlimited stamina. If you watched the fight, you'd see that the moves get sloppier, slower and they're pausing more often to catch their breath.
Agreed! I was actually waiting for him to comment on that myself-looking at both their facial expressions and their style of movement, they look increasingly desperate and worn out.
@@bleack8701 To add to your comment, they're also fighting on a planet made of lava, and near the end of the fight are fighting literally just a couple feet from lava. Not just the possibility of heat stroke but I know from experience (having lived in Phoenix for the majority of my life) that breathing very hot air (from 120 fahrenheit and above) that it actually becomes painful to inhale because your lungs are being scorched, also, you seem to get less oxygen per breath when it's very hot out too. It would make total sense that both these people would be exhausted near the end of the fight.
I'm only about halfway through, but I just want to point out something really cool that I noticed. These actors, while facing each other, have not broken eye-contact once. They haven't even glanced at their props. Really subtle way of conveying both the emotion of the scene and their skill with the choreography, and it's a testament to both of of their abilities.
Fun fact: This entire scene was done in normal speed. Previous ones had to be done slower so that the actors could better anticipate their opponent's moves and then in post prod they would accelerate the fights. But in this one, Ewan and Hayden had so much training from the previous movies that they instinctively did all their moves in normal speed.
I also remember somebody in production saying something about them wanting to bring as much intensity as they could to it since it was the big defining fight between them.
@@thepewplace1370 And there is the difference the recent actors and these two, it isn't the actors they just don't have training which MAY be the directors fault or the relatively small time frame given to make the film. Not making excuses but just thinking. After all when watching Kylo fight I thought "hmm, he leaves himself open so much its no wonder Ray beats actually I could beat him."
I've heard that the "flourish off" at 50:00 is meant to represent them being in perfect sync with eachother in the force. As in all fights with force users, they are at all times using the force to try and predict the other fighters next move, but here, the two fighting know eachother so well that the force guided them to this. It may be that we're writing the movie after the fact, but personally I can accept that as being the reason.
Yes exactly. I came to a similar conclusion myself. They begin a strike, but in the middle of it they already see the other one reacting to it so they switch to something else, and that repeats several times in a sequence.
@@antonvagen8206 that doesn’t make any sense. There were points where their lightsabers could’ve just cut each other’s feet while the other had their lightsaber behind their back. It’s just bad choreography
This is the case, it’s the same reason a kid could even pod race (and win). It’s like having amazing reflexes using the force, using it to sense what’s coming to a degree. Otherwise using a lightsaber without the use of the force is incredibly dangerous.
I think Shad missed the fact they have the force when analyzing the high ground scene. I think the analysis was amazing, but Obi-Wan was right. He had a chance to use the force without it effecting him negatively. Rolling up a hill isn't really problematic compared to rolling into lava.
Agreed! Most of the time it's Anakin who leaves himself open to attacks and Obi Wan seems to refuse these opportunities. He didn't want to kill Anakin! Although, whether this was the actual intent of the coreographers, I have no idea.
ZachRduo I think the directors told them something like “ok in this scene anakin wants to kill obi wan for betraying him, and obiwan just wants to stop anakin but hasn’t come to being able to kill him. Which story wise is what was going on and you can see it in the choreography
I came here at 19.5 minutes in to say just that exactly. It may be a bad move on Anakin's part, but he may be banking on Obi-Wan not killing him. He knows his best friend and mentor doesn't really want to kill him, and would rather have him turn back to the light side. He may have done stupid things like that to catch Obi-Wan off guard and try to get an advantage. It's probably uncharacteristic of his fighting style, which would be unexpected by Obi-Wan, hopefully leaving him open to attack from other angles. On the other hand, he has also had absolutely no time to process Padme's alleged betrayal and his disbelief that he actually brought himself to force choke her, as well as his loss of relationship with her and the potential loss of his unborn child, though he doesn't think he killed her. He's taking out all of his emotions on Obi-Wan because he thinks it's all his fault, and he probably isn't thinking clearly, causing him to make one bad decision after another. Lucky for him, Obi-Wan doesn't want to take the advantage and kill him. Either way, it would be completely understandable that his moves aren't perfect. Also keep in mind, at this point I haven't had any bad moves on Obi-Wan's part pointed out to me yet, but I would imagine that those could also be explained as his lack of desire to kill Anakin. The choreography could be exactly what was intended, mistakes and all.
As was said by other before me. I absolutely agree. Obi-Wan isnt trying to kill Anakin, he's protecting himself and that early into the fight (what 10-14 seconds?) no wonder he passes up a clear killing blow.
I have the same feeling, that Obi-Wan Kenobi did not want to kill Anakin. The whole point of the fight was for Obi-Wan to subdue and again, not defeat him. If we would have seen a fight where Obi-Wan wanted to destroy Anakin, we would have seen something similar to win Obi-Wan dispatched Darth Maul at the end of the Clone Wars animated series.
37:36 earlier in the movie, Anakin cut off Dookus hands by doing this move, and he was trying to do the same to Obi-Wan, but Obi-Wan was countering it. Also, it helps to keep in mind throughout the fight that it was designed to show that Anakin was in control, and that Obi-Wan didn’t want to kill Anakin. So it would make sense that any advantage he saw he would’ve ignored, hence why he was on the defensive the whole time, while Anakin was on the attack the whole fight.
@@davari9032 No it is not. It's not even remotely close. I've learned both choreographies and they just look similar, but they are completely different. In this Mustafar shot, Anakin comes out of a right-spin to attack Obi-Wan from his left while Obi-Wan had his lightsaber blocking his upper body with the tip pointing upwards. Kenobi parries this attack with a weird circular motion by dragging Anakin's left attack downwards, then to the right. (from Anakin's POV) After this, he takes the opportunity and tries to stab Anakin but he parries his attack away by continuing the circular motion Obi-Wan set him in. In this fight scene, Anakin never "tried" to disarm Kenobi, in fact it was actually Obi-Wan who was trying to cut Anakin's legs... it can be confusing for the viewers tho... In the Invisible Hand however, it's completely different. Anakin does come out of a right spin to slice Dooku but when he gets blocked, he does a left 180 spin instead and blocks Dooku's upper swing with his own tip pointing to the right in an awkward position. Dooku tries to take advantage of this and pushes Anakin's lightsaber forward but Anakin outsmarts him and before it's too late, he holds and gains control over Dooku's lightsaber, repositions his blade and effortlessly defeats Dooku. Basically, in this scene, Anakin simply outsmarts Dooku for trying to take advantage of him, which ironically fits the context PERFECTLY. It's really hard to explain and visualize on text, so I'd recommend you try to watch a tutorial on these choreographies instead of watching the film because from the angles the scenes were shot from, they can appear very similar. Note: These swings mostly happen in fractions of a second so it might be a little confusing.
I'm almost halfway through, and just wanted to point out that all five complaints about Obi-Wan so far are about him not taking the kill shot. This is intentional and actually written into the choreography (see script). Obi-Wan is desperately trying to not kill Anakin. It's his friend and he's looking to hold him off and find chances to reason with him. Finally at the end, he's pleaded with him, nothing is getting through to Anakin. If he continues any longer, he'll likely die. He has an opportunity to end the fight without killing Anakin and he takes it. So, this is so well done because the actors trained daily for months, filming it several times on green screen, and finally on set. So much work was put into it because this was supposed to be the Big Duel of the saga. The fight that was talked about since the Original trilogy was being made.
Christus Regnet "So, this is so well done because the actors trained daily for months, filming it several times on green screen, and finally on set. So much work was put into it because this was supposed to be the Big Duel of the saga." you just described The Last Jedi though w/ snoke. rey. kylo, +imperial red guards fight at the end in the throne room.
@@Arcexey Since when does Reys and Kylos fight was even close as the dual of the saga? Their fight doesnt matter like at all comparably. While Anakin and Obi wans fight was anticipated from the very fist time it was mentioned in the OT. Also seeing on how many mistakes TLJ did on their scene and how badly choreograph it is, I seriously doubt that they even put a quarter of the effort as this fight.
Personal opinion: The moments Obi-Wan has a moment to strike Anakin but doesn't could be justified in that this whole fight starts with Kenobi clearly being against fighting his friend and brother in arms, he's conflicted.
This really was the case actually. Obi-Wan was intentionally drawing out the fight. Part of him knew he'd have to kill him, but two things were affecting his marital judgment here. A. His conflicting emotions B. The fact that the main thing keeping him in this fight was his Soresu mastery, any slip in defense, Anakin would have taken advantage of and the fight would have been over. Obi-Wan knew this. So even when obi-wan had openings he could have exploited he both didn't want to slip up and didn't really want to kill his "brother." Definitely not defending all the inconsistencies in the fight of course, but some of them can be explained by that.
@@HighPhoenix1754right also add in that they are force enhancing their speed and strength to the point of inhuman and a non force sensitive could barely keep up with watching the fight they dont have time to see and take the openings that would actually be only the briefest blink of an eye in timing. so all these "big" openings are actually less of an opening then a beat of the heart before its gone. Jedi fight at stupid speeds which is the singular reason non force sensitives dont stand much of a chance in melee unless the Jedi lets them.
@@atk9989 this too. Though most Jedi have a degree of combative foresight, when two force users are faced off against one another, that too cancels out and it's left to skill, tactics, and power from that point on.
Its fully possible and to add to that we must also take Obi Wans lightsaber style in to account. Form 3 Soressu was an almost entirely defensive style while capable of offence is designed to defend. So it makes sense that Obi wan would be on a defensive footing for most of the fight until the right opportunity to strike would arise. Anakins form 5 is far more aggressive and thus he would be on the attack
I love how they basically made that backwards flourish Anakin’s signature move. Of course other Jedi have done it once or twice, but Anakin constantly does it all through the prequels and Clone Wars.
Noticing some trends, like Anakin leaves himself open and Obi-Wan doesn't take advantage of that. In the context of the narrative - Anakin is consumed by rage, and Obi-Wan doesn't really want to harm him - is this more reasonable?
And we can add to that the fact that Anakin is a nearly unequaled master of Djem-So, which is an aggressive action/reaction fighting style. It is literally based around being overly aggressive, and then countering your opponent's counter, funny as that sounds. Obi-Wan being the greatest Soresu (defensive counter style) knew he had to tire Anakin out, lest the risk of being countered himself was too great. I think it was the combination of both these things that made him hesitate, and he only ever had 0,1 seconds, so it's not like he was actively not harming Anakin. I could be rationalizing, but hell, even if I am it is perfectly reasonable as these would be valid reasons as to why he didn't chop him down earlier.
This does kinda fit the narrative. I'd add that I was once in a fist fight with a drunk friend who decided to go off on me. I blocked and dodged a flurry of punches, kicks and grapple attempts aimed at me without returning any blows. I didn't want to hurt my friend. I just let him run out of gas trying to get shots in. The closest he got was a literal 'boop' that touched the end of my nose as I backed my head out of a well timed combo. :D
Chris Backofen, After analyzing how Obi doesnt imediately take advantage of the initial mistakes of Anakin, it may suggest he initially wanted to spare him and only sought to disarm him of his lightsaber, possibly having to cut off one of his arms in the process, but in the ending segment, when Anakin tries to do his trick he tells him not to try it, because that next move was when Obi decided to disarm Anakin´s legs and give him the lava ground treatment, as punishment for his fall.
Also to patch the "they're aiming or each other's weapon instead of dealing a death blow". Jedi/Sith and any force sensitive can have premonitions or insight on future moments and possible outcomes of said events. So instead of risking leaving themselves open they're actively trying to counter one another's next move. Also with their familiarity with each other's fighting style and movesets they're simply doing their best to outplay the other ie. striking the opponent's weapon to stop a potential move.
Honestly, i wanted to write down that there is also a deep emotional Level to this Fight and so on... But you Guys said it all 😂 yes Obi wan didn't want to Cut down Anakin and yes it comes down to theyre mastery of the respective Styles and familiarity with each other which btw leads to the "flurrish Off" which is also to Show Off said Last fact and not Just to bei fancy
Obi: Anakin, Palpatine is evil! Ani: That point is debatable as from my perspective, which i laid out in this power point presentation, the jedi are evil! Obi: well now i'm lost!
There are pleanty of times during the fight where Anikin and Obiwan attacked or blocked with a flourish. So, I like to think the "flourish-off" was the lightsaber fight equivalent of two people trying to pass each other in a hallway, but they keep moving to the same side. Each of them was expecting the other to attack, but neither did, so they kept swinging long enough to go "oh, screw this".
That's what I always figured most of the fight was. One had trained the other and both had fought side by side for years, so each were over predicting what the other was going to do
In the EU its amso explained that students often would practice "speeds" with their teacher or other padawan. They consisted of a series of strikes and blocks and they would repeat them at ever increasing speeduntil someone got hit (they used practice lightsabers for that) or yielded. So its possible that in the heat of the battle they reverted to the speeds they did in the past for a brief moment.
The point of the “high ground” line is to lure Anakin into jumping over to him. He isnt saying hes actually in the advantageous striking position, especially since they arent even within striking distance due to Anakin being on the platform in the lava. He’s using Anakins arrogance against him. This has been pretty frequently talked about. Also, their flourish towards eachother is them testing eachother. Also been talked about often.
Exactly my thoughts too. As Shad points out when commenting on the lines/writing, Anakin's responses didn't match up with what Obiwan was saying. It shows he's unhinged in his thinking. Obiwan took advantage of this by claiming he had the high ground. A rational Anakin would have used the Force to move the droid close enough to just step off onto solid ground, but he isn't rational, so instead he he tries to prove his abilities and take the high ground for himself and plays right into Obiwan's trap. This also leads into the argument that Obiwan probably intentionally or subconciously missed all his opportunities, because even after winning the fight, he still can't bring himself to actually kill Anakin, just as he told Yoda he would not be able to.
Exactly. And having by having “The High Ground” Obi-Wan is also saying that he has the moral high ground. This pisses Anakin off even more since this whole fight is as much about fighting with ideals as fighting with swords. The way I see it, Obi-Wan is deliberate taunting Anakin and saying “You are just a sith, you can’t beat me like Maul couldn’t beat me”. In his arrogance and rage Anakin refuses to believe this and to prove his point (about how powerful he is) he tries to beat Obi-Wan with the exact move he used to kill Maul. Of course this is what Obi-Wan was expecting and he does what Maul should have done back in episode 1. I also like how this is right comes after Obi-Wan say “Then you are lost”. I think that is where he realized he had to stop Anakin by any means necessary. That Obi-Wan (who claims to have the moral high ground), wins the fight by basically luring Anakin into a trap, is a good reflection on the double standards of the jedi throughout the prequels and especially Clone Wars.
@@Dragonpuncher123 i mean it doesn't reflect any double standards. it's an ongoing battle, it's not a "trap" just because Anakin chose to be stupid. the whole point of a duel is to attempt to trick an opponent into making a mistake in the first place. i am afraid this is one of those instances of fans trying to apply deeper reasoning and validation for something silly, because we already know the origin of why "i have the high ground" was incuded in the script, and it had absolutely nothing to do with a deeper meta-message. fight choreographer Nick GIlliard straight up confirmed in an interview that his idea of the high ground came from the fact that Hayden Christensen hates walking up slopes. there was nothing significant about it, Obi-wan winning the fight because he was physically higher up than anakin was very much the intention by the movie makers.
I believe Anakin, as a Padawan, tried to replicate the jump move Obi Wan did against Maul to impress his master. Obi Wan acknowledged what Anakin was about to do and genuinely warned him not to, Anakin's arrogance got the best of him and he tried Kenobi's trick against Kenobi.
The high ground comment actually makes sense based on the position that they're in. Obi-Wan is about three or four meters above Anakin, and he doesn't say that he's won. He says that it's over, not because he's won, but because he's in an established defensive position. Anakin would need to jump over lava and into his range and land with good footing, giving Obi-Wan the time to hit him. It's over, because it's a stalemate. Anakin can't advance on him without exposing himself, and no competent attacker would commit to that kind of attack. And then Anakin decides to go for it anyways, trying to vault over Obi-Wan's defense, but misjudges the jump, or just runs out of gas at the end, allowing Obi-Wan the opening to end the fight. So yeah, high ground between two non-force-using humans isn't too much of an advantage, but it's more like Obi is standing on a wall that Anakin need to scale to reach him. Are you then saying that the person on a castle wall is at a disadvantage against someone trying to scale the wall?
And all of it was all a bait. Anakin could've jump much more farther, but it'd make sense that he could only jump right behind Obi-Wan as he's also tired as well, but not his right arm as it is a robotic one. Or Anakin could've just jumped on the ground and continued the duel and tried to outdo Obi-Wan into taking a position with the lava behind him then try to create an opening then kick him down to the lava. But if Obi-Wan can control where he falls, which he can do anyway, he will still lose.
Well you see when you say he "ran out of juice" technically isnt possible sure he would have been tired and the reason I say isnt possible is because it takes basicly no energy to channel the force into a jump so he could have jumped further but I think he was getting desperate and hoping that obi was bluffing
The only reason that Obi-Wan was able to defeat Anakin was that he was in the exact same position as Anakin was when Obi-Wan was when he defeated Darth Maul. The high difference between them was the same. If Obi-Wan hadn't between Maul the way he did he would have lost against Anakin.
@@AEWYU If you notice Obi Wan during the jump, he changes his position, Anakin's jump was to reach well above Obi Wan, only Obi Wan took a short jump and positioned himself. Funny no one notices that detail ...
Funny thing is, Anakin could've broken the stalemate if only he didn't do a somersault, but instead sharp, low-height and possibly Force-enhanced forward jump towards the lower part of the hill Obi-Wan was standing on. That way he could at least prolong the fight. But well, I guess his emotions and arrogance got the best of him.
With Anakin telegraphing so much it kinda feeds into his character being over confident with his powers. This fight is also a fight about Anakin's ego.
Anakin wasn’t exactly in the best mental state during the fight. He was angry and he felt betrayed by his wife and best friend. I think he would have been prone to make mistakes and openings.
jaywalker02 exactly. This fight scene truly shows how each one are. It reflects just how they feel with themselves and eachother. Anakin was way too arrogant in his approach at times. I think he just wanted a duel at times not even to kill Obi wan but just disarm. And vice versa
Some nice lore context for this fightscene: The Jedi actually have different schools/forms of lightsaber fighting, which favor different strikes, Guard-positions, follow certain principles etc. We actually know which ones are used by Obi-Wan and Anakin - and the best part about it is: you can tell from the way they are fighting. Obi-Wan is known to be *the* master of "Soresu" (the third lightsaber fighting form), which is a very defensive style based around tiring the opponent out and was actually conceived to counter blasterfire, rather than for lightsaber combat. In fact since the Sith were believed to be extinct for so long Lightsaber duels actually got a lot rarer for the Jedi, so it is logical that their way of fighting would change accordingly. Obviously Obi-Wan himself has fought Lightsaber Duels over the course of the Movies (and animated series) numerous times though, so you could say he is somewhat of an exception (which goes for Anakin aswell). But his preferred Style is a bit of an indicator on why he might fail to finish Anakin off sometimes (along with the psychological pressure of you know, killing your best friend) and also why he is on the Defensive most of the time. Anakin himself uses the fifth of the Lighsaber forms called "Djem So", an aggressive style characterized by powerful attacks like overhead strikes - exactly what we see Anakin do in the Duel (if you pay attention Obi-Wan actually doesn't do those). Additionally Anakin is known to be *extremely* gifted with the Lightsaber (and overconfident) so the flourishes and spins make a lot of sense in that context aswell. The final thing to consider is that Anakin and Obi-Wan are master and apprentice, which has lead to certain similarities in their fighting styles. Bonus Fact: the Lightsaber style *meant* for Dueling, is the one Count Dooku uses (Form 2 Makashi) - one of the reasons why he holds his ground well even when fighting against 2 opponents at the same time For more on all of this you can check out Wookieepedia ;)
One interesting thing that I once read (I'm not sure if this is true or not) is that the novelization of Revenge of the Sith explains that Dooku's style, while excellent for duels, has one specific weakness: a complete lack of leverage from the one-handed grip and the nature of lightsabers (all the weight's in the handle) It then says that Anakin's style, due to its emphasis on leverage and heavy strikes that incorporate the Force into the power of the blow, can basically break Dooku's guard positions as a result. Is that true?
Even if that lore was inaccurate based on the story that was being told if I remember correctly Obi Wan didn't really wanna fight him if he could help it but Anakin was becoming more aggressive in his pursuit for power that even without the lore a lot of that would still make sense...
Absolutely something I have mentioned myself but this is a very nice and quite complete comment. I use this kind of detail to help me enjoy things like these fight scenes more and to help me justify technical details that are a little awry :) Great comment I really liked reading it. Soresu for the win... my style if I ever got to learn I am sure.
I love how most of the flaws are Obi-Wan failing to take advantage of Anakin's openings because it actually makes a lot of sense. Obi-Wans entire method of lightsaber combat is to wear down his opponent with an impenetrable defense so he was likely holding out hope that the fight could be resolved without having to kill Anakin. Obi-Wan is also practically outright stated to be the better swordsman and even though he's backpedalling the whole time he's visibly more collected at the end of the fight. So to me it makes complete sense that Anakin would leave more openings and Obi-Wan wouldn't necessarily capatalise to the point where I barely consider them flaws. Thanks for the awesome video! It was really interesting to hear your take.
Adding to your comment: he decided to adapt Soresu (the defensive form) after witnessing Qui-Gon's death due to his form's lack of proper defense in closed quarters. Up to that point, both practiced Ataru. From Wookieepedia: "Fatigue was theorized to have been a contributing factor in Qui-Gon Jinn's defeat on Naboo at the hands of Sith Lord Darth Maul during the latter stages of the Battle of Naboo. In fact, ever since their brief fight on Tatooine, Maul knew that Ataru would be the Jedi Master's undoing. Another contributing factor in Jinn's death was the requirement of open space for the kinetic acrobatics of Ataru. Without ample space to move in the Theed Royal Palace reactor core, Jinn was deprived of the key element in his defense, and thus could only attempt to block Maul's incessant barrage of Form VII strikes. This event influenced Kenobi-after his Master's death, he changed his preferred form to Soresu, the most defensive of all forms."
@@rafaellago172 this so much. What @shadiversity does not acknowledge is that Anakin and obi wan use different techniques. Also that this entire fight scene was done in one take and at the speed it is seen at in the actual movie, so yes, human error is a thing and obi wan has a far more defensive style than Anakin's.
Technically Obi-Wan's fighting style is designed to wear down the opponent until they can end the fight with one blow. That blow being any of the openings Anakin offers.
Obi-wan is definitely the better defensive fighter, but Anakin is a better offensive fighter, using a more aggressive style, backed with the added power from the dark side and he is physically stronger. So this is literally Immovable object (Obi-wan) vs Irresistible force (Anakin).
@@ghosty918 I'm sorry sir, but as a calculus student I cannot allow that error to persist. Although the joke is good, "absolute value" refers to a number's distance from 0, disregarding negative numbers, and can be applied to all real numbers.
I can't argue with the analysis of the choreography, narratively we have several things happening with the characters... A. Neither truly wants to kill the other at this point, Obi less so but that is my take he is B. showing Anikan that he is still the master, which echoes/foreshadows Vader vs. Luke in Empire but it is a more intense fight because C. this is master and highly trained student. It is more chess match than sword fight with each player knowing to near perfection each others moves, counter moves and favorite tricks I have many 30+ years of SCA fighting and one of the more combat heavy LARPs and I have seen and been in fights with closely matched opponents that train together and sometimes the follow through with a strike is stopped because one of them suspects a trick or has a moment of doubt...it seems odd but it is a human thing that happens. Quick edit for an after thought, advanced fighters, like chess masters, are setting moves far ahead of what the average and uninitiated can. thus the continuous action and seemingly missed opportunities. Again, all in story justification stuff...
Anakin: “I’ll try spinning! That’s a good trick!” Us: “No it isn’t. It’s stupid. Stop.” Shad: “Akshually...” Edit: About the Luke vs Vader fight... which one? Episode V? Episode VI? Both? Please do both. This series is already off to a great start, and it just means more content for you.
@@thedragonreborn9856 I.... gurgled at this... 😅 Thank you for the compliment, but the Geno Breaker IS the evolved Geno Saurer, though some people may prefer the big guns to the claws lol
There really isn't much to the episode 6 duel, the focus in that one is the drama between Luke trying to redeem Anakin while Vader and Palpatine are simultaneously trying to turn Luke to the dark side, the fighting itself is entirely secondary in RotJ with frequent and long pauses for dialogue.
Shad Fact: Follow Up: Apparently after a long talk with the ASA (Australian Space Agency {yes really}) and a long discussion about the dangers of Kessler Syndrome, Shad has agreed not to participate in future caber tossing for the present.
Might I suggest Anakin's rematch with Dooku? I especially love the bit where Anakin runs his lightsaber down and right through Dooku's wrists. Completely impractical for a regular sword, but totally works with a lightsaber.
Seems like someone would have exploited this design flaw long before now, if they’ve been used for thousands of years. The smallest guard they should have is like the one on Katanas.
Once anakin realized that obi wan was holding back and was avoiding killing blows anakin started attacking in ways that exposed himself more to insult obi wan hesitance
agreed. Plus, how long were they fighting each other? Stamina affects how effective you are in combat. The longer you fight, the more mistakes you're going to make.
@@chalion8399 it's like how in a fist fight you would not pull back a jab as fast as you would if you had a lot of energy. And you would desperately punch and kick to hope to get a hit in
@@ReksNuadiah Pretty much, yes. It's all about maintaining a solid defence until the opponent makes mistakes due to fatigue or frustration, and is pretty much designed for long battles like this one (as well as defence against blaster fire).
The best part is how Obi Wan started off the fight in his usual stance, but then switched to Qui Gon's stance in order to bait Maul's attack. Short. Sweet. Devastating. It was brilliant.
1 of the things i really liked about the Clone Wars was how it allowed hte characters to move at a supernatural speed and do impossible things but this came pretty close
this really does show just how good they were, not as actors but more of like dancers... sounds silly i know but this is more of an art form than acting. it takes real skill to be in perfect sync with someone else especially in these types of scenes
@@mikeyguest6596 that's 1 of my main problems with the Autopsy is that it acts as if these mistakes could be taken advantage of, at the speed they're going there isn't enough time AND ObiWan isn't TRYING to kill Anakin, and Anakin is a show off
I think the " I have failed you" line does make sense, because we see throughout the prequels that many time obi wan dismisses, or just doesn't really listen to Anakin and his struggles
I think it's because he doesnt understand anakin's, inability to let go. While obi wan as every jedi feels emotions, through his education he has learned not to let himself be overwhelmed by them and understand that sometime there's just nothing you can do, like when satine died.
@@ddy7323 um ok, I'm not sure if you're trying to argue against me, reinforce my point, or just add to the discussion. in any case, what you said is interesting, but I don't really have anything to comment on it, plus I never watched the clone wars tv show, so I don't know much about satine.
@@slkjvlkfsvnlsdfhgdght5447 Satine was a woman that obi wan loved that darth maul killed write in front of him out of spite. He didn't go to murderous rage, or went on a quest for revenge but he did grieve.
@@slkjvlkfsvnlsdfhgdght5447 What i was trying to say is that it's not so much simple dismissal from obi wan so much as he didn't understand or couldn't comprehend why he was struggling so much.
"Yeah, I ate from both Hayden's and Evan's plate while they went for drinks and made a mess on the table. I let them shake it down w each other outside the cantina and just kept the camera rolling..." - George Lucas
You have to remember we have been fighting together for many years so we know how the other fights, and our different styles of lightsaber combat (Anakin uses form 5 and me form 3). Also, the force allows us to even better predict the movements of each other. BTW form 5 focuses on heavy large strikes to pressure your opponent while form 3 focuses on mainly defensive moves to wait for an opening to take advantage of. P.S. I was once called THE master of Soresu (form 3) by master Mace Windu Edit: This is one of the nerdiest comment sections I’ve ever seen and I love it Edit 2: Also I wasn’t trying to kill him until later I was simply trying to disarm him at first. And he was being reckless and letting his emotions take over, he wasn’t thinking as strategically as normal. Also (out of character here) some parts of this footage are actually slowed down so the music, Duel of the Fates, didn’t seem awkward and out of place.
Seems like the choreographers knew what a fight would look like, we're able to adapt that for Hollywood style, and we're only limited by the actor's abilities (which weren't bad tbh)
Lucas: overchoreographed they said, unrealistic they said, surrounded by yes men they said. At least my character knew how to fight! Rian: *burp* edit out that d*burp*agger!
I think the “I failed you” line is one of the best lines in Star Wars. For me, Star Wars and especially the prequels are not about “good Jedi” against “evil Sith” but about the dangers of, in lack of a better word, extremism on both sides. Anakin looses his mother because the Jedi forbade him to rescue her, and afterwards he’s told to “control his emotion” (so basically “Calm down”), he expects to lose the love of his life because the Jedi teachings don’t allow him to seek help for her. And still he told Windu about Palpatine (the one who promised him to help Padme and his best father figure) being a Sith Lord, basically sacrificing his love for the Jedi. And then Windu tries to ignore the Jedi code, the one Anakin sacrificed everything for. That’s the moment he becomes Darth Vader, that’s the point of no return. And it’s the failings of the Jedi and by extension Obi Wan that brought him there. Obi Wan failed him because as a close friend and mentor he should have seen it coming. He should have been someone Anakin can talk to, and I think he knows that. I think that’s why Obi Wan (and Yoda) went on to become hermits, because they knew that it were the Jedi whose failings created Darth Vader.
Spot, fucking, on! I've explained this in similar fashion to many, yet they still persist in their mindset that Anakin's downfall was badly written. The prequels did not deserve the hate they got.
Lucas did everything as he should. Some fans simply would never accept different story from OT. Lucas went too far with Jar Jar in ep1 and kid Anakin shouldn't destroyed Droid ship but everything else was good paced movie with lot of locations and showed universe in state of decay and rise of Sith though corrupt system. next two episodes build on that state of universe till showdown in ep3 prequels have such huge scope of universe and no other franchise came close. Actions taken on Coruscant were felt across galaxy and Anakin journey into darkness step by step was awesome He was kid who looked on Jedi as heroes, wanted to become jedi to save his mother and others from slavery. after time he becomed arrogant because he was better than other students, tortured by dreams about his mother, want to see what is happening with her and Obi Wan tell him dreams pass in times, When he got his first assignment still is tortured by dreams but he put duty first until he cant take anymore and went to see what is wrong with his mother, try to save her, she died and he killed her captors, swear that he won't fail again on grave of his mother, arrogant again and was fried by lighting and lost an arm from duel with Dooku, prideful my power are doubled since we met, use anger and kill Dooku, still save Obi wan, he learn that will become father which is problem for Jedi, tortured by dreams of his wife death, ask jedi about visions and they tell him to be happy that others die miss them do not mourn them do not. Palpatine masterfully control Anakin and make that Jedi humiliate him by not giving him rank of master, Anakin and Jedi council are moving far from each other. Jedi Council ask that he spy Palpatine before they even knew he was Sith which make Jedi bad and power hungry that want to control and are no different then Siths. Palpatine reveal himself to Anakin and promise him that he can help him save his wife Padme. Anakin in shock that his fatherfigure is sith went to seek Jedi but realize that they are no different and when came into Palpatine office, Windu wants to kill Palpatine and only Anakin say that's not Jedi way and Windu answer same as palpatine did after Dooku died which confirmed for Anakin that Jedi are no different from Siths so he cut windu hand and Palpatine fried windu. After being part of killing leaading member of jedi council, life he knew was over and only side he have is with Palpatine. To become more powerful to learn dark side to use it like Plageous, he must do dark deeds so he Purged Jedi from temple. After that he went to destroy separatists and he brought peace to the galaxy. After that he had time to reflect on his actions but he has gone too far and choice he made is permanent. Padme hears what happened and want check for herself so she went on mustafar and Obi Wan secretly boarded and after Anakin saw her, she wanted to leave but he wanted to stay because they don't have to run anymore and he still didn't learn what he need to save her, After that Obi Wan appear, he thought that Padme brought Obi Wan to kill him so he force choke her feeling betrayed and only because of arrogance he lost against Obi Wan. Awesome and unique story of Anakin Skywalker. And that was mostly two movies because TPM was mostly Qui Gon and obi Wan movie.
Very late. But the "I have the high ground!" and "Don't try it." is actually pretty valid. Obi Wan spent a lot of time meditating and thinking about that moment when he managed to leap over Darth Maul and mentally went through how it could've gone. And more than likely would've taught Ani what happened that day. So Obi could see that Ani was planning on pulling a similar move, hence the "Don't try it." which, Ani does and Obi Wan counters.
Coreographer: the actors made a few mistakes but the scene it's fast and flashy so no one will notice. I mean, Who would ever make a one hour long analysis of this fight frame by frame? Shad: so we'll see
Everything about this scene suggests a massive amount of time and effort was put into it. The director, choreographer, cinematographer, composer, stuntmen and actors all understood why the characters were fighting, how they were fighting, what their goals were and what their limits were. They must have spent ages planning every little detail, and I think it holds up really well even today. That throne room scene from The Last Jedi however, fails at the first hurdle. We as the audience have no idea why the Imperial Guards are fighting now that their leader/employer is dead. At least I didn't. Add to that all the inconsistencies, mistakes rectified in post and general sloppy choreography, and it pales in comparison. Substance vs Superficiality I guess.
Just training wise. Hayden and Ewan spent 3 hours a day, every day for 6 months practicing for this fight. They broke SO many stunt sabers and accidentally hit eachother countless times to get this fight so tight and fast.
I always assumed that the Imperial Guards fight Rey and Kylo out of loyalty/revenge. But you’re right about how this is never explained to the audience.
What are you even on about? They just saw these people kill the guy they're paid to protect. Why would they just stand there and let their leader's murderers just get away? These people are criminals who just killed the guy they're loyal to, of course they're going to do something about it. With Episode 3, though, I get why these two are fighting but I never really understood Obi Wan's intentions because he clearly doesn't like the idea of fighting Anakin, but it's never made clear at all whether he wants to actually kill him or not. There's never really that moment where you see him start off on the defensive and then he realizes he has to aim to kill no matter what and both of them seem to just be fighting very defensively the entire time. It doesn't really feel like a story with ups and downs as much as it feels like just an overly flashy segment of padding to get to the point where Obi Wan can have the advantage of the high ground, where he's forced to act. While it's a way technically worse fight scene with way more unrealistic choreography, the fight against Darth Maul is actually way better from a story and character perspective because who knows what the heck Darth Maul really wants, but you definitely understand that he's there to kill them and you see him actively adjust to the fact that he has to take on two opponents at once until they get separated and you see that nice bit of heavy-handed character work where Qui Gon is very calm and patient while Darth Maul is just pacing back and forth like he's irritated at how long this is taking. Then he gets Qui Gon and Obi Wan just goes into a rage and manages to overpower him. It's not as much of a series of flashy moves, there's clear stages to the fight with each character doing better or worse as it progresses. In contrast, Obi Wan vs Anakin feels like they're on even footing the entire time until the end, which only makes the fight feel like it drags on and on until the final exchange. It makes for a very narrative boring action scene that gets by mostly because it's so over the top and flashy, which is a shame for the big final confrontation that the entire Prequel Trilogy was building up to. Which is to say nothing of all the CG setpieces that just make a lot of the fight feel like even more padding. Say what you will, but I HEAVILY doubt anyone ever felt like that fight could have ended on the ropes or hover-platforms because it's so goofy that you just instinctively know they're in no danger at all.
Keep in mind, Obi Wan believed he could bring Anakin back to the light side, he didnt want to kill him or injure him, most of the fight was a defensive one, trying to prevent Anakin from getting off a killing blow. If Anakin had killed Obi Wan, he would have gone fully to the dark side because he would have had nothing left to bring him back to the light side.
Shayan he was bullied as a padawan, and the council didn’t do anything, the council didn’t let him check on his mother every once in a while, and despite being the hero of the clone wars, was not made a Jedi master.
@@admiralsand i only have an issue with your second and third statement. 2. He was not allowed to see his mother as Jedi are taught to shun attachment. 3. He was not made master because if i remember correctly, palpatine put anakin on the council despite the council likely not believing he was ready.
it's important to note that this entire fight scene was performed in real time. there is no digital speedup to the actors, the speed you're seeing in the footage is the speed they were moving at on set during recording. god it's so impressive. really makes you appreciate stuff like 40:25 EVEN MORE
Actually, this is incorrect They *slowed it down* for some parts because they were moving so fast it didn’t look human, which could also be why some of the mistakes seem more avoidable than they would’ve been
It's actually a good example of how good an actor he is. He gets a lot of flak for his role as Anakin, but most of the criticism comes from the dialogue, which isn't up to him. Any scenes where he is just able to emote are really well done. When Windu heads to arrest Palaptine and Anakin is left in the Jedi Council chamber alone (With no dialogue) you can really see his turmoil.
He stayed in character a few times on set between takes - so as not to lose the intensity. Natalie said, at one point, when she approached him, Hayden's 'warmth' was just 'gone.' I'll try and find the source.
Hayden is a really good actor, honestly. Any time that he's left to his own devices, to act... When he's not restricted by the writing? He truly feels like the man that will become Darth Vader.
Hayden was a perfect choice for Anakin at this stage: even thought George's dialogue was extremely poor and clunky, he still manages to convey a huge amount of emotion. Not just in this fight scene, but check out the difference in his character in Clones vs Sith. He portrays the fall into darkness and anger really well, and its not over the top.
53:26 "...you can't redirect your momentum. Once you are in the air, you are in the air. Granted, they are Force-users, maybe Force-users can redirect their momentum... that's _up in the air."_ - Shad, Master of Swords and Words
The "Don't use the Force against a Force user who is as good as you" was established in Episode 2 with Yoda vs. Dooku. I think both Sith and Jedi take a lot of pride in sword fighting. They use the Force to augment their senses and physical strength in a fight, like in Yoda vs. Dooku.
This must have taken 20 hours to make having to rewatch over and over in slow and take notes then go out and demonstrate in the yard all the moves and finally record all the commentary. Great job
The reason they do their fun little lightsaber spinning in the middle is because at this point it is showing how each of them understand how the other fights and are so in tuned with their saber form that it shows how truly connected they are
Always thought Hayden played Skywalker perfectly. Absolutely perfectly. The expression of hate he has thru out the fight is intense. Likewise for Ewan. He looks like he's on the verge of tears, almost like he can't believe what is going on. That final "I HATE YOU!" was so guttural and cathartic it gives me chills. The pain in obi wans eyes at the end is absolutely devastating.
Agree. This film is a masterpiece of portraying emotion. That scene where Anakin and Padme stare out into the distance and Anakin basically gives up on the light... pure goosebumps.
@@villerintanthillith1762 yeah well try to be almost like a Sheldon Cooper all your life, and then when you meet the girl you fancied all those years ago. . . . Try to flirt with her.
"The man he faced was everything Obi-Wan had devoted his life to destroying: Murderer. Traitor. Fallen Jedi. Lord of the Sith. And here, and now, despite it all. . . Obi-Wan still loved him. Yoda had said it, flat-out: 'Allow such attachments to pass out of one's life, a Jedi must', but Obi-Wan had never let himself understand. He had argued for Anakin, made excuses, covered for him again and again and again; all the while this attachment he denied even feeling had blinded him to the dark path his best friend walked." "I have failed you, Anakin; I have failed you."
I like to think that when Obi misses it's because in the story he actually doesn't want to kill Anakin. He's testing Anakin's willpower and hoping he can discourage Ani from fighting further.
My thoughts exactly. That explains perfectly Obiwan's misses and that knowledge makes Anakin more daring in his attacks following his increasing anger.
At around 8:40 or so when you analyzed Obi Wan's spin block, I like to think he used it as an opportunity to quickly scan behind him while maintaining guard against Anakin. He was being pushed back pretty hard. I know it was most likely added to be flashy but it's a pretty cool idea in my opinion. Love the content!
I always saw Obi-wan's lack of aggression as the embodiment of the quote, "I can't kill Anakin." Minor hesitations that allow a more aggressive Anakin to make mistakes he normally wouldn't.
Obi-Wan was the Máster of the defensive form Soresu. Mace windy even called him as such saying but to you Master Kenobi what Does soresu has to fill in any weakness?
@@0predaking0 idk what you are trying to say but if you are asking what Soresu weakness is, it was force user. Soresu offensive style mainly involve counter attack against light saber and blaster. A force user will have a field day with passive defender who doesnt want to fight close and dirty. Anakin is a force user tho...but his recklessness is his undoing.
That's something Shad doesn't really consider, but for the purposes of this video, he doesn't need to. There is so much psychology at play while everything is unfolding. Good call!
A guy on IMDB forums did one over fourteen years ago, CoryTheLoveGod he was called. It was a really good, long analysis. Showing how Obi-Wan and Qui Gon fight together and how Maul is a very good match for them, but is so aggressive that he gets cocky. Really good analysis, wish I'd saved it.
@@visionist7 I agree. Especially when Maul did the spark thing, he became so cocky that he expected that Obi-Wan will not be able to jump back up. Obi-Wan did take note of that cockiness and managed to pull the trick of catching Darth Maul in surprise and cutting him in half.
@Kiernan Rogers yes but again he didn't want to land a fatal blow unless he had to. He didn't want to kill anakin except as a last resort so he ignored all those possible fatal openings to avoid doing that
@Kiernan Rogers That can be explained in universe with the force. Force users can predict incoming attacks and speed up their bodies using the force. Obi Wan masted the Saber art of defense and is heralded as the greatest defensive fighter in all Star Wars.
15:51 I think the reason Obi-Wan does that spin is just so he could get a brief glimpse of where he's going. Remember, he hasn't been to Mustafar before, and he's fighting Anakin while being pushed back the entire time, for all he knows Anakin could be pushing him to the edge of the platform and end up throwing him off into the lava, so he does a quick spin to get a little glimpse of how much platform he has left and if there's no obstacles in the way before continuing the fight.
On the whole "bad dialogue" bit when they're on the platform, I understand that the line delivery's not perfect and it may seem nonsensical to a degree but you're ignoring the big picture the Prequels painted about Anakin's apprenticeship to Kenobi. Obi-Wan's rigidly orthodox in his teachings, adhering to standard Jedi norms, where Anakin's unique circumstances (emotional/attachment issues due to age) required a more unorthodox teacher like Qui-Gon. A good example of this is comparing Qui-Gon's advice to Anakin versus Obi-Wans' "Use the Force, feel don't think" -Qui-Gon in TPM "Use the Force, think" -Obi-Wan in AoTC It's subtle but you can easily see it. Plus if it wasn't obvious enough that Anakin and Obi-Wan didn't get along during Anakin's time as a padawan they literally bicker with eachother endlessly during AoTC and whine about eachother to others around them, like Padme. Obi-Wan did his best but the problem always was that he was too orthodox of a Jedi to truly give Anakin the teaching he needed to handle his issues, the entire point of introducing Qui-Gon is to show a teacher who could've saved Anakin but the Sith intervened and Darth Maul managed to eliminate him, sealing the Jedi Order and Anakin's fate (Until Luke comes along that is)
Precisely. It bugs me that people keep missing that. It was an important theme throughout the whole trilogy, it was one of the key factors that led to his downfall. Plus, Anakin's strange vocal inflections could easily be due to the fact that he's consumed by the Dark Side and in a stage of unhinged rage. He's emotionally unstable. I noticed he sounded differently after his turn compared to the rest of the film, so I figured it was intentional. Guy wasn't in his right mind, and I think it's further reinforced after he's put in the suit, since he sounds like his more rational old self and seemingly had no recollection of how he hurt Padmé. Just tossing ideas out there that I've had since watching the films.
The different voice was an intentional choice Hayden made. He wanted to imitate Vader's way of speaking and voice, at least partially, to bridge the gap between young Anakin and Vader.
@@AnimaVox_ The point is, it was defined that to be smart it is mandatory to hate prequels. Anakin is not charismatic like Luke so he has to be burned in criticism and nothing in the film is worth it. So the so-called "smart" are taking these little details in the film and acting as if they were hard evidence that nothing in the prequels is good.
Fiddle Sticks Exactly! It’s the same reason why Anakin in AOTC is such a creepy, awkward teenager. He was a slave until the age of 9 on a backward planet lacking any just legal system, then he sees and engages in a battle in which people die, only to then be taken away from the only home he ever knew and the only family he has to be indoctrinated in a religious cult. Add onto that lack of emotional development and normal social development the likes of puberty and you would have some really fucking awkward kid. Never mind him being unnaturally talented and always told he was the best and possible Chosen One while also being treated as an outsider by the other padawans and distrust by those such as Mace Windu. People hate the character, but think it’s just bad writing because they fail to look beneath the surface and think “Why would Anakin say that, why would he be like this?” It’s all in character for Anakin, but not in character with this idealised chad protagonist with endless charisma that they imagine Darth Vader to be as a young man.
CinemaWins actually made a pretty good point, saying Anakin may not have turned if Qui-Gon was his master. Qui-Gon was much more a spirit of the law rather than the letter
52:00 "I've always wondered why they don't use Force powers more often." Well Shad, the answer to that actually gets back each Force Wielder's philosophy. Obi Wan and Anakin were what is known as Jedi Guardians, they focus more on subtle uses of the Force and more on fighting and bladework. They were actually both using the Force this entire battle. For example, Anakin is much better at precognition than Obi Wan, so he is actively seeking what Obi is gonna do. Anakin is also using the Force to augment his strength his dexterity, his endurance, etc. And Obi Wan was actually renowned for his ability to turn his body completely over to the Force in battle. At the beginning Obi Wan has to focus more attention on Anakin since he wasn't very good at precognition, so he uses the Force to augment his reaction time, his speed of movement, and his endurance. But as time moves on, he will actually begin to progressively allow the Force itself to direct his limbs in battle. And overt uses of the Force often weren't worth the effort, because it takes just that split second to focus on telekinesis and that opens you up to an attack. And if the object you are about to throw is too far away, then you are going to lose your hand. Definitely lengthy, but that's most of the lore on that question.
Also during the fight over the lava (which is also when they are arguably at their most EXHAUSTED) is when they have to direct that force instead to just a barrier to make sure neither one just bursts into flame due to proximity. One clean hit could disrupt concentration and kill the one who got hit.
I sometimes wonder why there hasn't been a force user that fights by controlling their lightsaber(s) with the force, like, straight up wielding it(them) through telekinesis.
@@ansrfururactionsMy thinking is that it may be more practical for most Force users to simply just strengthen their arms to make impactful and swift swings because without arm control they'd need extremely precise and potent Force control to fight with the lightsaber in that way. Now on the other hand perhaps throwing weapons could benefit from that method since they're replaceable and likely require less finesse once they leave the hand which can allow the Force to move the much lighter object.
@@icycrusader1947 though, at the same time, you gain the range and versatility advantage, can't be hit if your opponent is multiple yards away from you and is preoccupied with blocking multiple, rapidly striking laser swords to stay alive.
It occurred to me while I was watching your breakdown that these lightsaber fights all have a fatal flaw: The blinding flashes. The flashes produced from the lightsabers striking each other would absolutely blind the fighters unless they closed their eyes for a split second. Temporary blindness would be a MAJOR obstacle when using these weapons, especially in a dark environment. They would need something like welding goggles to protect their eyes.
Unfortunately they had to use dowels in the hilts as blades, natural ambient glows or flashes on the actors or terrain, but better effects than the original pre-CGI mattes from the original trilogy.
I imagine that, considering how long they've had the lightsabers and they've used them against other lightsabers that they'd be more accustomed to the flashes. I could definitely be wrong, but if you're more used to bright flashes, youd be able to recover better from them.
As a writer myself I say Obi Wan saying "I have failed you" is that he failed as his teacher, he feels like should have done more for Anakin and he is regretful of what is going on shown with how Kenobi at times does not really try to strike his friend. Everything else could have used different wording tbf.
Yeah, I thought it odd that he wasn't able to empathise with the sentiment. It's not like emotions are rational. It's similar to a parent being disappointed in their kid for bullying or stealing; when someone you're responsible for strays, you feel like you should've done more.
I would imagine that if you see a student that you really believed in and poured a lot of time and energy in completely fail in everything you tried to teach you do feel responsible for it. Even if there is nothing you could have done to stop it. Also it's very much like Obi-Wan to lament seeing his pupil fail rather than cast blame his way.
My headcanon for the flourish-off is that it was just a moment of competing double-vision where they had a moment to both engage their Jedi-Future-Vision but with them becoming concious of what their opponent was about to do the future was just a whirlind and they both tried to parry strikes that would never come, but I'm fully concious of the fact that I just pulled that explanation out of my arse so my own enjoyment doesn't get hampered by that scene.
That what I've always thought. You've got two combatants who each have precognitive powers each trying the sway the next moment of the future in their favor. They're basically in a precog bind there, seeing twelve moves ahead, and nothing works.
"In time, Shad, you will learn to trust your pauses. Then you will be invincible. I have said it many times. You are the most gifted long man I have ever met. I see you are becoming the greatest of all long men, Shad; even longer than Master MauLer."
9:30 I really like this part. It could've been done slightly differently, but the spin was still plausible so they went with that to make it look cooler. It wasn't just a pointless "speen cuz it looks cool" it was a plausible way to block Anakin's blow and looked cool as well.
Can we just appreciate the fact that Shad coreographed his swordplay sections to follow his main narration, meaning this isn't his usual style of narrating that part where he does it separately from the main narration? Not to say it's something unique or anything, but that's a lot of planning. And the fact that they are in sync with the narration is so nice! Must've taken a lot of time to plan out. Good on ya Shad
"Sorry Ahsoka... reverse grips are dumb." I love Ahsoka and I laughed so hard. Her style look very cool but I always wondered about the practicality of it. Ah, she can have it - she is too believable.
the reverse grip isn't "generally" practical, but it is practical. irl we teach soldiers both methods of holding a knife (reverse and forward) because both are practical and useful in specific circumstances give a marine a knife and their first reaction when using it for fighting purposes is to reverse grip it the same advantages apply with full length blades, it just comes at the disadvantage of the length makes it much..much easier to cut yourself and it's defensive ability is reduces for someone accustomed to their weapon "losing" it doesn't happen, your mind considers it a natural extension of you and you the need to constantly be thinking of it is eliminated, competition shooters and soldiers for instance, after enough time will simply be able to react with their weapon and not think about where there arms are or if the weapon is on point and she had/has good reason for using it, namely it's extremely unorthodox, and her style/form relies on extreme aggression to avoid fatigue and ultimately death the only people who'd even be somewhat trained to deal with that shit are jedi, sith and Grievious one you never fight, one was supposed to be extinct, and who tf thinks about a metal robot with a lightsaber being a thing? droids, bounty hunters and criminals are all atleast somewhat familiar with lightsabers and how they're used, you bypass that alltogether with unorthodox means people knowing how you fight is and always has been the bane of any fighting force, no matter how effective you are if you're predictable then an enemy will fuck you for that
Using a reverse grip is practical in a defensive position. Much like someone instinctively raises their arm when physically threatened, the reverse grip can react in such a way
I think the fact that Lightsabers are both weightless blades and don’t need momentum to cut removes some of the negative aspects of a reverse grip that you’d have with a sword
The high ground here actually is an advantage due to the ground being slippery with a bit of a slope and rocks and also due to the fact there is lava behind Anakin.
Some other Star Wars super fan probably already pointed out that 1: Obi-Wan wasn't trying to kill Anakin, and Anakin was purposefully being portrayed as wreckless for story purposes. So every instance that Obi-Wan could have killed Anakin and didn't, and every instance of Anakin broadcasting or leaving himself open, I consider to be completely in-line with the story, and choreographed into the fight pretty well. That stupid thing inside where they're auditioning for marching band is still terrible, though. 2: The line about "From my point of view the Jedi are evil." is a direct throw-back to a quote from RotJ where Obi-Wan defends the version of the story he had told Luke in ANH where Vader betrayed and murdered his father, stating, "what I told you was true, from a certain point of view. You're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view." 3: I forget which EU book it was (Maybe Shadows of the Empire, it's been 20 years since I read them...), but before the prequels were released there was a book that pretty much determined how this fight ended. The book described the final attempted leap over Obi-Wan's head, and subsequent removal of Anakin's legs by Obi-Wan, as well as Obi-Wan leaving him there next to an active volcano (that's how it was described in the book, not a volcano planet, but an active volcano) where Anakin suffered burns over his entire body. 4: I am almost certain that the way lightsabers are supposed to work is that they do not slide against each other, but bind where they touch, hence why there is only one instance of a lightsaber with any form of hand guard, which if you look at that dipshit's lightsaber those wouldn't be effective anyway because if a lightsaber were to slide down it to the hand the pommel juts out before the energy portion of the hand guard begins, and a lightsaber would just go right through it, between the saber hilt and the energy portion of the hand guard. I knew the moment I saw Kylo's dumbass saber that the new movies were doomed. On force attack vs force defense in the books where force users fight each other, the way the fight is described each combatant can feel when the other reaches out to use the force for more than just general speed and conditioning purposes to use it as a force push or pull or to throw something and has the time to disrupt that attack either with their own force abilities or with a lightsaber. The general way the fights would go is if one or the other were much stronger in the force they would use that, and if they were roughly equal in force ability but one was a much better swordsman then the weaker swordsman would require more concentration on the duel and the better swordsman could sneak in force attacks, even if their abilities with the force were lesser than that of the other. That's why it was important to train with the sword, so that a brilliant swordsman but generally weaker in-the-force assailant couldn't use swordsmanship to overpower/distract someone who is stronger in the force but unskilled with a saber. Yes, I am incredibly bitter about Disney's destruction of the Star Wars Extended Universe.
There are problems with fight that have nothing to do with narrative. You can't just use blanket statements to excuse everything just because of a element of the story. Besides, the movies are self-contained and have nothing to do with the books.
Even if lightsabers’ blades’ bind, Kylo’s crossguard is still useful in the sense that it can still be used for offense. I think it’s in a clash with Finn where their sabers are locked but one of the crossguard blades begin cutting into Finn’s arm. Yeah the sequels are dumb but I think Kylo Ren is one of the few good things to come out of it
@@nobro6971 Those cross guards look like they'd be better at disarming (dishanding?) yourself more than your opponent. If they were angled 45 degrees towards the tip then they'd be much more helpful in disarming your opponent and far less dangerous to yourself.
@Bread It's getting to where Disney owns so much stuff that all of the movies and TV we watch go through them and their own agenda permeates everything they do.
Me: I really loved this fight, I know it’s not realistic but I hope Shad isn’t too brutal with it... 0:30 “this fight scene is actually really good” Me: YES!
It kind of tears me in two to see this. Because there are some instances where the plot would explain some of the moves taken. Slight precognition, the difference in physical strength and speed between the two opponents, the familiarity of the characters, the motives (i.e Obi-Wan doesn’t really want to kill Anakin.) and the fact that Anakin makes more mistakes because he’s tapping into the Dark Side and his negative emotions. But at the end of the day it’s still a technical flaw. Ah well, at least I can say I liked the Prequels for the choreography than the shite we got in the sequels. And the really good stuff we have here is worth it I think. To the point where I agree with Shad, This IS the best lightsaber duel in Star Wars.
I was going to comment on this myself and then saw this comment. Obi-Wan is a better fighter and trying to talk/calm/wear Anakin down, he's not making a killing blow because he's not trying to kill. IF Obi-Wan had wanted to disable/kill Anakin from the start, the fight would have been over in the first real exchange.
@@xSniper1982 Id argue that Obi Wan was the better fighter then. As a whole Anakin tops him easily when it comes to sheer skill and talent. Anakin is however, completely overtaken with rage so in this duel Obi Wan is able to contain him and even finishes the fight by capitalizing on the rage and arrogance of Anakin.
@nathaniel gray Soresu, form 3 which he supplements with form 4 Ataru. Anakin uses one of two variants of from 5 Djem So, which while it is marked by counter offensive principles is also marked by heavy offensive movements.
I am 15 minutes in and I really enjoy this. I think it is really cool that you reenact the moves. It is very refreshing to look at and gives me a more clear view in what you are referring to. Please keep doing these videos!
If u havent seen the episode 8 breakdown u should its pretty great.
@DeimS I strongly agree
Not only that it is done in a humorous and entertaining manner and reminds me of something from the past I just can't quite remember from what...
@ i keep seeing you everywhere
@ agreed. If you make anything educational fun then people pay more attention
I noticed a pattern in your complaints: Anakin is too reckless and Obiwan isnt trying to kill him... narratively that makes perfect sense.
no Obi-Wan definitely wanted to kill Anakin, he just was extremely careful because he knew Anakin was much stronger.
Emil Lerner obi wan isn’t trying to kill anakin until the second half of the fight, where they have a little exchange and he says “well then you are truly lost!”. Until then obi wan was simply trying to disarm anakin. But he realizes that the only way to stop him is to kill him.
@@emillerner6362 no
@@emillerner6362 "i will not kill Anakin" - Obi wan to Yoda
Did u forget about that
Another pattern I am picking up on is that the spins that Obi Wan uses are also allowing him to pivot between his feet while moving backwards during the high guards, I don't know if there is a better way to retreat while maintaining momentum and your guard especially against heavy/impassioned blows such as the ones that Anakin is using.
Look at Hayden and Ewan sweating bullets during the training footage... It's like they actually cared about choreography. Imagine that!
I agree. People can critisize many things but I don't think anyone can realistically say Hayden and Ewan did not care about their performances or the characters. They clearly did and worked to extreme levels to bring what they could to the screen.
And poor Hayden gets so much flak... I absolutely love his anakin. Sure, the dialog isnt perfect but he did what he could with it. His emotional and physical performances were really really great though.
@@skaionex Yeah he reminds me of Keanu Reeves. He's a very good physical actor, very strong in presence without any dialogue.
@@skaionex Sadly, all the acting skill in the world can't save garbage dialogue. But that turd was polished to the extreme!
Also why later in the fight the pauses make logical sense, and why there are a bit more frequent of mistakes (both in story and the actors themselves.) They are simply getting worn out
The real reason anakin spins so much?
"I'll try spinning, that's a good trick"
Palpatine is his master
@@morgothable Do beyblades also backflip on a regular basis?
@@renz4369 No, but they do have trouble advancing onto higher ground.
Renz yes actually, they summon tornadoes sometimes too
@@MarginalSC in the Burst anime there is a Beyblade that can get in the high ground
Shad near the start "a fight would realistically last 2 or 3 moves"
Star Wars Rebels - Maul vs Kenobi.
Showing the difference between a master going for a kill versus two having an argument and wanting to wear the other out.
@@thanatosstorm it’s too bad the rebels maul vs Kenobi was horrible bc mauls swings were awkward and made no sense
@@zzodysseuszz I disagree with this part, what maul wanted to do was hit Obi wan with the hilt of his double lightsaber, just like how he defeated Qui Gon, but Obi wan deliberately took his master's stance so as to lure him in and finish him off with one blow
Best part of that show....
But the autopsy video would still be about 2 or 3 hours.
I thought this was going to destroy the Anakin vd Obiwan fight scene, but it just destroyed the last jedi throne room even more lol.
Lowkey Arki what?
As it should. Hayden and Ewan worked hard to perform this.
@@ChillyCharizard006 when someone criticizes something normally you'd expect it to realize how horrible something is. But this showed how much effort they put in to the fight scene compared to the last jedi throne room
Lowkey Arki OHHHH... for some reason my mind wasn't processing TLJ throneroom fight, even though that's LITERALLY what you said... And after the mentions it multiple times in the video. I feel stupid now lol. Yes totally agree.
@@revbladez5773 It seems like quite a bit. You can watch the actors go through the drills on UA-cam if you like. It looks really neat to know they could do all the moves.
I know from a technical perspective Obi-Wan makes mistakes not striking when he has an open opportunity but from a lore perspective it actually makes sense. For a majority of the fight Obi-Wan is intentionally not taking these opportunities as he doesn't actually want to kill Anakin instead defending himself and trying to find an opening to disarm Anakin and end the fight without having to take his life. Only later in the fight realizing that due to Anakin's skill and the fact that they are so familiar with each others fighting styles, as they have been fighting along side one another for years, the only way Obi-Wan can end the fight is by killing Anakin.
I think the one opertunity he could have used was when Anikin hit the console he could have cliped the tip of the saber and cut off the balde
@@TetsuRiken Yeah that was a pretty big opening for him to take advantage of that was definitely missed.
@Wraith 13 eh no one's perfect... Xept ray...
Edit: holy shit that’s a lot of likes!
@@albertschoise8091 *chokes with the force* You dissapoint me.
...or at least horribly maiming him.
This video - 79 minutes
Revenge of the Sith - 140 minutes
This is more then half length of movie! Glorious.
10/10 would watch again ^^
To be fair The fight scene was like 3 hrs long.
Don't worry, we still have a half of movie
@@Jfk2Mr another happy landing
I don't know how to feel about that.
Let me say something about the, "I have the high ground" scene; I genuinely don't believe Obi Wan believes he has the advantage. I think it's a taunt, a challenge. He is trying to provoke Anikan and he falls for it exactly as Obi Wan expects because he knows Anikan believes himself to be superior. It's just a mind game.
True! He had beaten general grievous and maul from a lower position too!
Looking at that terrain, could Anakin have realistically fought his way uphill? After all, he did slip down the bank to where he caught fire.
Actually, it is because he knows Anakin will try to do the same move on him that he did on Maul: the jump and flip over him. The jump obi wan does on maul and the one anakin does on obi wan are identical, except in the latter situation, obi wan knows exactly whats up and...yea
Obi Wan: _waves hand_ You *will* jump at me
Anakin: Are you trying to do a mind trick?
Obi Wan: _waves hand more insistently_ You *will* jump at me. You *will*-blast it, why is Master Qui Gonn’s training failing me?!
Anakin: I’m still gonna jump though. *AAAAHHHH*
It's a corny pun characteristic of a Prequel film. I never thought it was that deep.
“A higher guard position is preferable to a lower one”
“This spin Anakin did wasn’t horrible since it kinda made sense”
*smiles in High Ground and Good Trick*
Sparkle Pawz *laughs in hello there*
*is relieved in happy landing*
*enjoying the fun begins*
yes obi wan had the high ground but thats not why anakin lost anakin was fueled by hatred and anger he wasnt thinking clearly which is why he lost
Them references tho!!!
Breaking it down really brings out what great acting we got from Ewan and Hayden across this entire fight.
Lol sick
Tf you doing here
Where there is high culture there is caprisun
whoa ain’t that a cool seeing you round these parts
hayden perfectly portrays his lack of fondness for sand
I believe the "Canon" reason for the fight becoming more unconventional later, is both Obi-Wan and Anakin realizing they're to familiar with each other and start to make false openings to bait the other.
plus theyre both getting tired and just plain desperate (Obi-Wan) and even more mentally unhinged (Anakin)
i think that's why they did that thing where they are just spinning and nobody is hitting, the point was that they were both doing the exact same move
The high ground scene. Obi-Wan was baiting Anakin to take the high ground, that's the whole point. Obi-Wan even said to not try it.But Anakin did it anyway and took the bait and got maimed.
ALSO they were both getting tired because this fight would be very energy draining even with the force
@@AEWYU yeah you can tell by the end they are slower and more predictable because theyre tired
I was a dumb highschool student when I first watched this fight and all I took home from this was it was a cool flashy fight. Seeing it frame by frame seeing Hayden's face during the whole fight, my goodness Hayden is a terrific actor. Through all the physical exertion he is still conveying all the anger Anakin has. Its kinda sad that he received a crap ton of flack due to the garbage dialogue.
Ewan isnt really half bad as well, he looks like he is in pain during this fight.
Ewan acted circles around Hayden. Hayden was good with aggressive, brooding emotions but the lighter dialogue where vulnerability required he was awful. His scenes with Natalie were some of the worst delivered lines in cinema and made him seem robotic and very 2 dimensional.
@@joshuaroberts1287 hayden was trying to portray james earl jones robotic voice because they are the same person
@Cow Lupin
In that case don’t go to 36:47 or you’ll be scarred for life
@Cow Lupin as a neurodivergent who talked with neurodivergent people
wat
@Cow Lupin That has to be the *dumbest* shit I've ever heard in my entire life
You misunderstand. The high ground does not give Obi-Wan power from a swordsmanship perspective, it simply multiplies his power in general.
Obi-wan+high ground > god
Or it just sped up his brains so that this time he used the opportunity?
Really obi wan is king of the low ground. He has won most of his fights by looking up at his opponent
Well, the most simple solution would be: He lied, trying to intimidate his student.
Is it like passive buff in rpg ?
I've been looking forward to this
Hello there!
General Kenobi. You are a bold one.
Didn't y'all lose to Dooku ? XD
Obi Wan Kenobi OMG I was going to say that 😱😭
You should get a good view from the highground
I love this breakdown, but I think one thing you're disregarding is that as the fight goes on, their moves deliberately get more sloppy and telegraphed because they're getting TIRED.
As an ex-fencer myself, the longer the matches wore on, the sloppier my opponent and myself got because our legs were aching from our guard position and our arms felt like lead from holding it outward. It's really impossible to contend with.
@Mk. 5II33II4N So? They're still human. It's not like they have unlimited stamina. If you watched the fight, you'd see that the moves get sloppier, slower and they're pausing more often to catch their breath.
@Mk. 5II33II4N doesn't mean they have unlimited stamina. Look at Obi Wan at 1:08:50. Dude's out of breath
Agreed! I was actually waiting for him to comment on that myself-looking at both their facial expressions and their style of movement, they look increasingly desperate and worn out.
@@bleack8701 To add to your comment, they're also fighting on a planet made of lava, and near the end of the fight are fighting literally just a couple feet from lava. Not just the possibility of heat stroke but I know from experience (having lived in Phoenix for the majority of my life) that breathing very hot air (from 120 fahrenheit and above) that it actually becomes painful to inhale because your lungs are being scorched, also, you seem to get less oxygen per breath when it's very hot out too. It would make total sense that both these people would be exhausted near the end of the fight.
Bystander They are not really human
I'm only about halfway through, but I just want to point out something really cool that I noticed. These actors, while facing each other, have not broken eye-contact once. They haven't even glanced at their props. Really subtle way of conveying both the emotion of the scene and their skill with the choreography, and it's a testament to both of of their abilities.
They worked incredibly hard for this duel, it's definitively the greatest lightsaber duel in the entirety of Star Wars.
@@Thor-Orion That's debatable, but it's definitely one of my favorites.
@@James35142 what lightsaber fight would u rank above this particular one?
@@James35142which one is better?
@@reagan1197there are some that would argue Luke vs Vader both rounds for the best
Fun fact: This entire scene was done in normal speed. Previous ones had to be done slower so that the actors could better anticipate their opponent's moves and then in post prod they would accelerate the fights. But in this one, Ewan and Hayden had so much training from the previous movies that they instinctively did all their moves in normal speed.
I believe for 'Duel of Fates' (Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan vs Maul) they had to actually ask the actors to *slow down* cause the cameras couldn't keep up.
@@Lightfire398 Bruce Lee was THAT fast and strong as hell. That can be expected from perhaps fittest man in recorded history.
I also remember somebody in production saying something about them wanting to bring as much intensity as they could to it since it was the big defining fight between them.
it wasnt instinct: they trained several hours a day for months
@@thepewplace1370 And there is the difference the recent actors and these two, it isn't the actors they just don't have training which MAY be the directors fault or the relatively small time frame given to make the film. Not making excuses but just thinking. After all when watching Kylo fight I thought "hmm, he leaves himself open so much its no wonder Ray beats actually I could beat him."
Anakin: kills younglings
Shad: ...
Anakin: makes a bad spin
Shad: BAD ANAKIN, BADDD!!!!
Well minor execution is one thing, but poor swordsmanship can lead to you losing all your limbs...
@@piratekingthaszar7912 meatbags can't understand
Kek
I'll try spinning, that's a good trick.
@@piratekingthaszar7912 umm, but this is lightsaber, it's way more like kendo, just a touching game
"I'll try spinning, that's a good trick"
Anakin never changes.
Was just going through the comments to make sure someone put that quote in here, otherwise I was going to do it. Well done 👍🏻😂
Hahahahahaha. Lol
They grow up so fast
you mean a jump spin that doesn't get cut (literally) in half, halfway through? :p
@@jacobfeucht1405 You and me both!
maybe he trained by a witcher secretly who knows.
I've heard that the "flourish off" at 50:00 is meant to represent them being in perfect sync with eachother in the force. As in all fights with force users, they are at all times using the force to try and predict the other fighters next move, but here, the two fighting know eachother so well that the force guided them to this.
It may be that we're writing the movie after the fact, but personally I can accept that as being the reason.
It would make sense since they fight together all the time so they know that they're not going to strike each other for a while.
yeah i thought they basicly feinted each other but like several times in a row
Yes exactly. I came to a similar conclusion myself. They begin a strike, but in the middle of it they already see the other one reacting to it so they switch to something else, and that repeats several times in a sequence.
@@antonvagen8206 that doesn’t make any sense. There were points where their lightsabers could’ve just cut each other’s feet while the other had their lightsaber behind their back. It’s just bad choreography
This is the case, it’s the same reason a kid could even pod race (and win). It’s like having amazing reflexes using the force, using it to sense what’s coming to a degree. Otherwise using a lightsaber without the use of the force is incredibly dangerous.
Shad: Actually having the high ground is more of a disadvantage
Obi-Wan: “Oh I don't think so”
As we all know obi is the master of the low ground tho
Obi-Wan the master of the Lava Ground
I think Shad missed the fact they have the force when analyzing the high ground scene. I think the analysis was amazing, but Obi-Wan was right. He had a chance to use the force without it effecting him negatively. Rolling up a hill isn't really problematic compared to rolling into lava.
Obi-Wan: “I have failed you, Shad. I have failed you.”
Obi-Wan *is* the high ground
I feel like Obi Wan's "misses" and bad moves are because he didn't really want to kill Anakin.
Agreed! Most of the time it's Anakin who leaves himself open to attacks and Obi Wan seems to refuse these opportunities. He didn't want to kill Anakin! Although, whether this was the actual intent of the coreographers, I have no idea.
ZachRduo I think the directors told them something like “ok in this scene anakin wants to kill obi wan for betraying him, and obiwan just wants to stop anakin but hasn’t come to being able to kill him. Which story wise is what was going on and you can see it in the choreography
I came here at 19.5 minutes in to say just that exactly. It may be a bad move on Anakin's part, but he may be banking on Obi-Wan not killing him. He knows his best friend and mentor doesn't really want to kill him, and would rather have him turn back to the light side. He may have done stupid things like that to catch Obi-Wan off guard and try to get an advantage. It's probably uncharacteristic of his fighting style, which would be unexpected by Obi-Wan, hopefully leaving him open to attack from other angles.
On the other hand, he has also had absolutely no time to process Padme's alleged betrayal and his disbelief that he actually brought himself to force choke her, as well as his loss of relationship with her and the potential loss of his unborn child, though he doesn't think he killed her. He's taking out all of his emotions on Obi-Wan because he thinks it's all his fault, and he probably isn't thinking clearly, causing him to make one bad decision after another. Lucky for him, Obi-Wan doesn't want to take the advantage and kill him.
Either way, it would be completely understandable that his moves aren't perfect. Also keep in mind, at this point I haven't had any bad moves on Obi-Wan's part pointed out to me yet, but I would imagine that those could also be explained as his lack of desire to kill Anakin.
The choreography could be exactly what was intended, mistakes and all.
As was said by other before me. I absolutely agree. Obi-Wan isnt trying to kill Anakin, he's protecting himself and that early into the fight (what 10-14 seconds?) no wonder he passes up a clear killing blow.
I have the same feeling, that Obi-Wan Kenobi did not want to kill Anakin. The whole point of the fight was for Obi-Wan to subdue and again, not defeat him. If we would have seen a fight where Obi-Wan wanted to destroy Anakin, we would have seen something similar to win Obi-Wan dispatched Darth Maul at the end of the Clone Wars animated series.
“The Sandman” vs. “Backflip Machine” instant like. 10/10 deserves a billion likes just for that.
9/10 Should have been “High ground” vs “Not Jedi Master”
Beyblade kick Machine vs Backflip Machine
The sandman?
37:36 earlier in the movie, Anakin cut off Dookus hands by doing this move, and he was trying to do the same to Obi-Wan, but Obi-Wan was countering it. Also, it helps to keep in mind throughout the fight that it was designed to show that Anakin was in control, and that Obi-Wan didn’t want to kill Anakin. So it would make sense that any advantage he saw he would’ve ignored, hence why he was on the defensive the whole time, while Anakin was on the attack the whole fight.
Ooh, nice. I never caught that.
Obi-wan was trying to wear him out into submission.
No its not the same move at all. Not even the same side, they’re just dragging their sabers in a circular motion
@@PatoChuit’s literally the same exact move lmao😭
@@davari9032 No it is not. It's not even remotely close. I've learned both choreographies and they just look similar, but they are completely different.
In this Mustafar shot, Anakin comes out of a right-spin to attack Obi-Wan from his left while Obi-Wan had his lightsaber blocking his upper body with the tip pointing upwards. Kenobi parries this attack with a weird circular motion by dragging Anakin's left attack downwards, then to the right. (from Anakin's POV) After this, he takes the opportunity and tries to stab Anakin but he parries his attack away by continuing the circular motion Obi-Wan set him in.
In this fight scene, Anakin never "tried" to disarm Kenobi, in fact it was actually Obi-Wan who was trying to cut Anakin's legs... it can be confusing for the viewers tho...
In the Invisible Hand however, it's completely different. Anakin does come out of a right spin to slice Dooku but when he gets blocked, he does a left 180 spin instead and blocks Dooku's upper swing with his own tip pointing to the right in an awkward position. Dooku tries to take advantage of this and pushes Anakin's lightsaber forward but Anakin outsmarts him and before it's too late, he holds and gains control over Dooku's lightsaber, repositions his blade and effortlessly defeats Dooku.
Basically, in this scene, Anakin simply outsmarts Dooku for trying to take advantage of him, which ironically fits the context PERFECTLY.
It's really hard to explain and visualize on text, so I'd recommend you try to watch a tutorial on these choreographies instead of watching the film because from the angles the scenes were shot from, they can appear very similar.
Note: These swings mostly happen in fractions of a second so it might be a little confusing.
I'm almost halfway through, and just wanted to point out that all five complaints about Obi-Wan so far are about him not taking the kill shot.
This is intentional and actually written into the choreography (see script). Obi-Wan is desperately trying to not kill Anakin. It's his friend and he's looking to hold him off and find chances to reason with him. Finally at the end, he's pleaded with him, nothing is getting through to Anakin. If he continues any longer, he'll likely die. He has an opportunity to end the fight without killing Anakin and he takes it.
So, this is so well done because the actors trained daily for months, filming it several times on green screen, and finally on set. So much work was put into it because this was supposed to be the Big Duel of the saga. The fight that was talked about since the Original trilogy was being made.
Christus Regnet "So, this is so well done because the actors trained daily for months, filming it several times on green screen, and finally on set. So much work was put into it because this was supposed to be the Big Duel of the saga." you just described The Last Jedi though w/ snoke. rey. kylo, +imperial red guards fight at the end in the throne room.
@@Arcexey Snoke vs Rey was planned since the 70s?
Arcexey not really because these actors actually trained well and mostly got to their timing mark
Arcexey
At least in RoTS the choreography is good. TLJ is just bad choreography.
@@Arcexey Since when does Reys and Kylos fight was even close as the dual of the saga? Their fight doesnt matter like at all comparably. While Anakin and Obi wans fight was anticipated from the very fist time it was mentioned in the OT. Also seeing on how many mistakes TLJ did on their scene and how badly choreograph it is, I seriously doubt that they even put a quarter of the effort as this fight.
Personal opinion:
The moments Obi-Wan has a moment to strike Anakin but doesn't could be justified in that this whole fight starts with Kenobi clearly being against fighting his friend and brother in arms, he's conflicted.
This really was the case actually. Obi-Wan was intentionally drawing out the fight.
Part of him knew he'd have to kill him, but two things were affecting his marital judgment here.
A. His conflicting emotions
B. The fact that the main thing keeping him in this fight was his Soresu mastery, any slip in defense, Anakin would have taken advantage of and the fight would have been over.
Obi-Wan knew this.
So even when obi-wan had openings he could have exploited he both didn't want to slip up and didn't really want to kill his "brother."
Definitely not defending all the inconsistencies in the fight of course, but some of them can be explained by that.
@@HighPhoenix1754right also add in that they are force enhancing their speed and strength to the point of inhuman and a non force sensitive could barely keep up with watching the fight they dont have time to see and take the openings that would actually be only the briefest blink of an eye in timing. so all these "big" openings are actually less of an opening then a beat of the heart before its gone. Jedi fight at stupid speeds which is the singular reason non force sensitives dont stand much of a chance in melee unless the Jedi lets them.
@@atk9989 this too. Though most Jedi have a degree of combative foresight, when two force users are faced off against one another, that too cancels out and it's left to skill, tactics, and power from that point on.
That’s why Obi-Wan aiming for Anakin’s lightsaber instead of Anakin himself makes sense too, he’s defending himself, not attacking his opponent.
Its fully possible and to add to that we must also take Obi Wans lightsaber style in to account. Form 3 Soressu was an almost entirely defensive style while capable of offence is designed to defend. So it makes sense that Obi wan would be on a defensive footing for most of the fight until the right opportunity to strike would arise. Anakins form 5 is far more aggressive and thus he would be on the attack
The reason why this was so good was cause Ewan and Hayden were having an argument and the film crew just happened to be there
They just bust out the saber props for every argument they have
@@MasquedMocha would there be any other way to settle an argument on a star wars set?
I love how they basically made that backwards flourish Anakin’s signature move. Of course other Jedi have done it once or twice, but Anakin constantly does it all through the prequels and Clone Wars.
Noticing some trends, like Anakin leaves himself open and Obi-Wan doesn't take advantage of that. In the context of the narrative - Anakin is consumed by rage, and Obi-Wan doesn't really want to harm him - is this more reasonable?
And we can add to that the fact that Anakin is a nearly unequaled master of Djem-So, which is an aggressive action/reaction fighting style. It is literally based around being overly aggressive, and then countering your opponent's counter, funny as that sounds. Obi-Wan being the greatest Soresu (defensive counter style) knew he had to tire Anakin out, lest the risk of being countered himself was too great.
I think it was the combination of both these things that made him hesitate, and he only ever had 0,1 seconds, so it's not like he was actively not harming Anakin. I could be rationalizing, but hell, even if I am it is perfectly reasonable as these would be valid reasons as to why he didn't chop him down earlier.
This does kinda fit the narrative. I'd add that I was once in a fist fight with a drunk friend who decided to go off on me. I blocked and dodged a flurry of punches, kicks and grapple attempts aimed at me without returning any blows. I didn't want to hurt my friend. I just let him run out of gas trying to get shots in. The closest he got was a literal 'boop' that touched the end of my nose as I backed my head out of a well timed combo. :D
Chris Backofen, After analyzing how Obi doesnt imediately take advantage of the initial mistakes of Anakin, it may suggest he initially wanted to spare him and only sought to disarm him of his lightsaber, possibly having to cut off one of his arms in the process, but in the ending segment, when Anakin tries to do his trick he tells him not to try it, because that next move was when Obi decided to disarm Anakin´s legs and give him the lava ground treatment, as punishment for his fall.
Also to patch the "they're aiming or each other's weapon instead of dealing a death blow". Jedi/Sith and any force sensitive can have premonitions or insight on future moments and possible outcomes of said events. So instead of risking leaving themselves open they're actively trying to counter one another's next move. Also with their familiarity with each other's fighting style and movesets they're simply doing their best to outplay the other ie. striking the opponent's weapon to stop a potential move.
Honestly, i wanted to write down that there is also a deep emotional Level to this Fight and so on... But you Guys said it all 😂 yes Obi wan didn't want to Cut down Anakin and yes it comes down to theyre mastery of the respective Styles and familiarity with each other which btw leads to the "flurrish Off" which is also to Show Off said Last fact and not Just to bei fancy
Obi: Anakin, Palpatine is evil!
Ani: That point is debatable as from my perspective, which i laid out in this power point presentation, the jedi are evil!
Obi: well now i'm lost!
I mean, that's what he gets for using Power Point.
D.B.P.P.
Death By Power Point.
I have fallen victim many times.
@@histguy101 The military has trained you well. XD
@@MrJinglejanglejingle Unlimited Power Points!!!!!!!!
Ah good ol' Cox N' Crendor
There are pleanty of times during the fight where Anikin and Obiwan attacked or blocked with a flourish. So, I like to think the "flourish-off" was the lightsaber fight equivalent of two people trying to pass each other in a hallway, but they keep moving to the same side. Each of them was expecting the other to attack, but neither did, so they kept swinging long enough to go "oh, screw this".
That's what I always figured most of the fight was. One had trained the other and both had fought side by side for years, so each were over predicting what the other was going to do
Jay Rapley in the EU that’s exactly what it was.
@Jay Rapley
Thank you for again, explaining how good the prequels are (and why we should appreciate what we have) :)
In the EU its amso explained that students often would practice "speeds" with their teacher or other padawan. They consisted of a series of strikes and blocks and they would repeat them at ever increasing speeduntil someone got hit (they used practice lightsabers for that) or yielded.
So its possible that in the heat of the battle they reverted to the speeds they did in the past for a brief moment.
@@ismaelsantos5378 Dang...the EU clearly got alot right :)
The point of the “high ground” line is to lure Anakin into jumping over to him. He isnt saying hes actually in the advantageous striking position, especially since they arent even within striking distance due to Anakin being on the platform in the lava. He’s using Anakins arrogance against him. This has been pretty frequently talked about. Also, their flourish towards eachother is them testing eachother. Also been talked about often.
Exactly my thoughts too. As Shad points out when commenting on the lines/writing, Anakin's responses didn't match up with what Obiwan was saying. It shows he's unhinged in his thinking. Obiwan took advantage of this by claiming he had the high ground. A rational Anakin would have used the Force to move the droid close enough to just step off onto solid ground, but he isn't rational, so instead he he tries to prove his abilities and take the high ground for himself and plays right into Obiwan's trap. This also leads into the argument that Obiwan probably intentionally or subconciously missed all his opportunities, because even after winning the fight, he still can't bring himself to actually kill Anakin, just as he told Yoda he would not be able to.
Exactly. And having by having “The High Ground” Obi-Wan is also saying that he has the moral high ground. This pisses Anakin off even more since this whole fight is as much about fighting with ideals as fighting with swords.
The way I see it, Obi-Wan is deliberate taunting Anakin and saying “You are just a sith, you can’t beat me like Maul couldn’t beat me”. In his arrogance and rage Anakin refuses to believe this and to prove his point (about how powerful he is) he tries to beat Obi-Wan with the exact move he used to kill Maul. Of course this is what Obi-Wan was expecting and he does what Maul should have done back in episode 1.
I also like how this is right comes after Obi-Wan say “Then you are lost”. I think that is where he realized he had to stop Anakin by any means necessary. That Obi-Wan (who claims to have the moral high ground), wins the fight by basically luring Anakin into a trap, is a good reflection on the double standards of the jedi throughout the prequels and especially Clone Wars.
It also mirrors each other, the spinny flourish. It shows that these two people have trained and fought together for years and years
@@Dragonpuncher123 i mean it doesn't reflect any double standards. it's an ongoing battle, it's not a "trap" just because Anakin chose to be stupid. the whole point of a duel is to attempt to trick an opponent into making a mistake in the first place. i am afraid this is one of those instances of fans trying to apply deeper reasoning and validation for something silly, because we already know the origin of why "i have the high ground" was incuded in the script, and it had absolutely nothing to do with a deeper meta-message. fight choreographer Nick GIlliard straight up confirmed in an interview that his idea of the high ground came from the fact that Hayden Christensen hates walking up slopes. there was nothing significant about it, Obi-wan winning the fight because he was physically higher up than anakin was very much the intention by the movie makers.
I believe Anakin, as a Padawan, tried to replicate the jump move Obi Wan did against Maul to impress his master. Obi Wan acknowledged what Anakin was about to do and genuinely warned him not to, Anakin's arrogance got the best of him and he tried Kenobi's trick against Kenobi.
The high ground comment actually makes sense based on the position that they're in. Obi-Wan is about three or four meters above Anakin, and he doesn't say that he's won. He says that it's over, not because he's won, but because he's in an established defensive position. Anakin would need to jump over lava and into his range and land with good footing, giving Obi-Wan the time to hit him.
It's over, because it's a stalemate. Anakin can't advance on him without exposing himself, and no competent attacker would commit to that kind of attack.
And then Anakin decides to go for it anyways, trying to vault over Obi-Wan's defense, but misjudges the jump, or just runs out of gas at the end, allowing Obi-Wan the opening to end the fight.
So yeah, high ground between two non-force-using humans isn't too much of an advantage, but it's more like Obi is standing on a wall that Anakin need to scale to reach him. Are you then saying that the person on a castle wall is at a disadvantage against someone trying to scale the wall?
And all of it was all a bait. Anakin could've jump much more farther, but it'd make sense that he could only jump right behind Obi-Wan as he's also tired as well, but not his right arm as it is a robotic one. Or Anakin could've just jumped on the ground and continued the duel and tried to outdo Obi-Wan into taking a position with the lava behind him then try to create an opening then kick him down to the lava. But if Obi-Wan can control where he falls, which he can do anyway, he will still lose.
Well you see when you say he "ran out of juice" technically isnt possible sure he would have been tired and the reason I say isnt possible is because it takes basicly no energy to channel the force into a jump so he could have jumped further but I think he was getting desperate and hoping that obi was bluffing
The only reason that Obi-Wan was able to defeat Anakin was that he was in the exact same position as Anakin was when Obi-Wan was when he defeated Darth Maul. The high difference between them was the same. If Obi-Wan hadn't between Maul the way he did he would have lost against Anakin.
@@AEWYU
If you notice Obi Wan during the jump, he changes his position, Anakin's jump was to reach well above Obi Wan, only Obi Wan took a short jump and positioned himself. Funny no one notices that detail ...
Funny thing is, Anakin could've broken the stalemate if only he didn't do a somersault, but instead sharp, low-height and possibly Force-enhanced forward jump towards the lower part of the hill Obi-Wan was standing on. That way he could at least prolong the fight. But well, I guess his emotions and arrogance got the best of him.
I always thought they flourished at each other because they were consistently predicting the other's move and both trying to work around it.
That’s the in universe reason but like it’s just bad choreography
@@10dollarsteakneggs86 thats not bad choreography
@@trickcyber I just meant that infamous part where they just stood there swinging in the air
@@10dollarsteakneggs86 yeah it's not bad choreography they're both just looking for an opening
@@trickcyber yah I know that’s the in universe answer but shad goes over why it’s dumb in real life
With Anakin telegraphing so much it kinda feeds into his character being over confident with his powers. This fight is also a fight about Anakin's ego.
From the goal of the duel, Obi Wan was trying defend himself and dissuade Anakin. While Anakin was more eager to kill Obi Wan than to defend himself.
@@apache9162 In the novel, I think I remember it being a reflexive response to Anakin's "killng intent."
@@thiccmilkdaddy8072 Bro, Anakin was trained as a Jedi, he is just overconfident that he is the most powerful being to ever exist
Anakin wasn’t exactly in the best mental state during the fight. He was angry and he felt betrayed by his wife and best friend. I think he would have been prone to make mistakes and openings.
jaywalker02 exactly. This fight scene truly shows how each one are. It reflects just how they feel with themselves and eachother. Anakin was way too arrogant in his approach at times. I think he just wanted a duel at times not even to kill Obi wan but just disarm. And vice versa
ROTS: A modest person doing the best with what he has.
TLJ: A poor man wearing supreme and a walking jewllery store
Some nice lore context for this fightscene:
The Jedi actually have different schools/forms of lightsaber fighting, which favor different strikes, Guard-positions, follow certain principles etc. We actually know which ones are used by Obi-Wan and Anakin - and the best part about it is: you can tell from the way they are fighting.
Obi-Wan is known to be *the* master of "Soresu" (the third lightsaber fighting form), which is a very defensive style based around tiring the opponent out and was actually conceived to counter blasterfire, rather than for lightsaber combat.
In fact since the Sith were believed to be extinct for so long Lightsaber duels actually got a lot rarer for the Jedi, so it is logical that their way of fighting would change accordingly. Obviously Obi-Wan himself has fought Lightsaber Duels over the course of the Movies (and animated series) numerous times though, so you could say he is somewhat of an exception (which goes for Anakin aswell). But his preferred Style is a bit of an indicator on why he might fail to finish Anakin off sometimes (along with the psychological pressure of you know, killing your best friend) and also why he is on the Defensive most of the time.
Anakin himself uses the fifth of the Lighsaber forms called "Djem So", an aggressive style characterized by powerful attacks like overhead strikes - exactly what we see Anakin do in the Duel (if you pay attention Obi-Wan actually doesn't do those).
Additionally Anakin is known to be *extremely* gifted with the Lightsaber (and overconfident) so the flourishes and spins make a lot of sense in that context aswell.
The final thing to consider is that Anakin and Obi-Wan are master and apprentice, which has lead to certain similarities in their fighting styles.
Bonus Fact: the Lightsaber style *meant* for Dueling, is the one Count Dooku uses (Form 2 Makashi) - one of the reasons why he holds his ground well even when fighting against 2 opponents at the same time
For more on all of this you can check out Wookieepedia ;)
Well done! :)
One interesting thing that I once read (I'm not sure if this is true or not) is that the novelization of Revenge of the Sith explains that Dooku's style, while excellent for duels, has one specific weakness: a complete lack of leverage from the one-handed grip and the nature of lightsabers (all the weight's in the handle) It then says that Anakin's style, due to its emphasis on leverage and heavy strikes that incorporate the Force into the power of the blow, can basically break Dooku's guard positions as a result. Is that true?
@@matthewmuir8884 That novel is a fucking masterpiece. Stover is a genius writer
Even if that lore was inaccurate based on the story that was being told if I remember correctly Obi Wan didn't really wanna fight him if he could help it but Anakin was becoming more aggressive in his pursuit for power that even without the lore a lot of that would still make sense...
Absolutely something I have mentioned myself but this is a very nice and quite complete comment. I use this kind of detail to help me enjoy things like these fight scenes more and to help me justify technical details that are a little awry :) Great comment I really liked reading it. Soresu for the win... my style if I ever got to learn I am sure.
I love how most of the flaws are Obi-Wan failing to take advantage of Anakin's openings because it actually makes a lot of sense. Obi-Wans entire method of lightsaber combat is to wear down his opponent with an impenetrable defense so he was likely holding out hope that the fight could be resolved without having to kill Anakin. Obi-Wan is also practically outright stated to be the better swordsman and even though he's backpedalling the whole time he's visibly more collected at the end of the fight. So to me it makes complete sense that Anakin would leave more openings and Obi-Wan wouldn't necessarily capatalise to the point where I barely consider them flaws.
Thanks for the awesome video! It was really interesting to hear your take.
No Eye Deer someone else sees what I see
Adding to your comment: he decided to adapt Soresu (the defensive form) after witnessing Qui-Gon's death due to his form's lack of proper defense in closed quarters. Up to that point, both practiced Ataru. From Wookieepedia:
"Fatigue was theorized to have been a contributing factor in Qui-Gon Jinn's defeat on Naboo at the hands of Sith Lord Darth Maul during the latter stages of the Battle of Naboo. In fact, ever since their brief fight on Tatooine, Maul knew that Ataru would be the Jedi Master's undoing. Another contributing factor in Jinn's death was the requirement of open space for the kinetic acrobatics of Ataru. Without ample space to move in the Theed Royal Palace reactor core, Jinn was deprived of the key element in his defense, and thus could only attempt to block Maul's incessant barrage of Form VII strikes. This event influenced Kenobi-after his Master's death, he changed his preferred form to Soresu, the most defensive of all forms."
@@rafaellago172 this so much. What @shadiversity does not acknowledge is that Anakin and obi wan use different techniques. Also that this entire fight scene was done in one take and at the speed it is seen at in the actual movie, so yes, human error is a thing and obi wan has a far more defensive style than Anakin's.
Technically Obi-Wan's fighting style is designed to wear down the opponent until they can end the fight with one blow. That blow being any of the openings Anakin offers.
Obi-wan is definitely the better defensive fighter, but Anakin is a better offensive fighter, using a more aggressive style, backed with the added power from the dark side and he is physically stronger. So this is literally Immovable object (Obi-wan) vs Irresistible force (Anakin).
"Shad, six is a number!" "From my point of view 6 is a letter!" "Well then you are lost!"
Brilliant! LMAO :D
Only a Sith deals in numbers
@@visionist7 Whole numbers are known as 'absolute values'...
Lord Tzeentch please stop I’m starting to get annoyed by math from homeschool
@@ghosty918 I'm sorry sir, but as a calculus student I cannot allow that error to persist. Although the joke is good, "absolute value" refers to a number's distance from 0, disregarding negative numbers, and can be applied to all real numbers.
I can't argue with the analysis of the choreography, narratively we have several things happening with the characters...
A. Neither truly wants to kill the other at this point, Obi less so but that is my take he is
B. showing Anikan that he is still the master, which echoes/foreshadows Vader vs. Luke in Empire but it is a more intense fight because
C. this is master and highly trained student. It is more chess match than sword fight with each player knowing to near perfection each others moves, counter moves and favorite tricks
I have many 30+ years of SCA fighting and one of the more combat heavy LARPs and I have seen and been in fights with closely matched opponents that train together and sometimes the follow through with a strike is stopped because one of them suspects a trick or has a moment of doubt...it seems odd but it is a human thing that happens.
Quick edit for an after thought, advanced fighters, like chess masters, are setting moves far ahead of what the average and uninitiated can. thus the continuous action and seemingly missed opportunities.
Again, all in story justification stuff...
Anakin: “I’ll try spinning! That’s a good trick!”
Us: “No it isn’t. It’s stupid. Stop.”
Shad: “Akshually...”
Edit: About the Luke vs Vader fight... which one? Episode V? Episode VI? Both? Please do both. This series is already off to a great start, and it just means more content for you.
I don't think I ever would have made the connection to that line.... It's beautiful....
Geno Breaker
Do you ever intend to evolve into the Genosaurer?? Cool name btw
@@thedragonreborn9856 I.... gurgled at this... 😅
Thank you for the compliment, but the Geno Breaker IS the evolved Geno Saurer, though some people may prefer the big guns to the claws lol
There really isn't much to the episode 6 duel, the focus in that one is the drama between Luke trying to redeem Anakin while Vader and Palpatine are simultaneously trying to turn Luke to the dark side, the fighting itself is entirely secondary in RotJ with frequent and long pauses for dialogue.
Shad Fact: Follow Up: Apparently after a long talk with the ASA (Australian Space Agency {yes really}) and a long discussion about the dangers of Kessler Syndrome, Shad has agreed not to participate in future caber tossing for the present.
Obi-wan overhead block spin
Shad: That is the coolest thing I’ve seen.
Anakin: Really? Let me try.
Spins
Shad: NO! Why would you do that?!
Episode 1 Callback:
"I'll try spinning! That's a good trick!"
Context matters... oh no.
"Hi there Matt Eastern here"
Might I suggest Anakin's rematch with Dooku? I especially love the bit where Anakin runs his lightsaber down and right through Dooku's wrists. Completely impractical for a regular sword, but totally works with a lightsaber.
Seems like someone would have exploited this design flaw long before now, if they’ve been used for thousands of years. The smallest guard they should have is like the one on Katanas.
Once anakin realized that obi wan was holding back and was avoiding killing blows anakin started attacking in ways that exposed himself more to insult obi wan hesitance
agreed. Plus, how long were they fighting each other? Stamina affects how effective you are in combat. The longer you fight, the more mistakes you're going to make.
@@chalion8399 it's like how in a fist fight you would not pull back a jab as fast as you would if you had a lot of energy. And you would desperately punch and kick to hope to get a hit in
@@chalion8399 I'm not too knowledgeable about Star Wars lore but that sounds precisely what Obi-wan's Soresu style is meant for, yes?
@@ReksNuadiah Pretty much, yes. It's all about maintaining a solid defence until the opponent makes mistakes due to fatigue or frustration, and is pretty much designed for long battles like this one (as well as defence against blaster fire).
Obiwsn was getting overr run he jus defends
You'd probably like Obi-Wan's final duel with Darth Maul in Star Wars Rebels. Tragic yet fantastic.
The best part is how Obi Wan started off the fight in his usual stance, but then switched to Qui Gon's stance in order to bait Maul's attack. Short. Sweet. Devastating. It was brilliant.
he’ll turn those 4 seconds into like a 15 minute video
Entire thing was like 5 seconds
@@AEWYU Under Shad it'll be one hour. (Exaagerated) He does these really in depth.
The Retro Panda one of the only good parts of that show
The fact that McGregor and Christensen moved at that speed is impressive.
1 of the things i really liked about the Clone Wars was how it allowed hte characters to move at a supernatural speed and do impossible things but this came pretty close
this really does show just how good they were, not as actors but more of like dancers... sounds silly i know but this is more of an art form than acting. it takes real skill to be in perfect sync with someone else especially in these types of scenes
They had to slow it down a bit aswell because George Lucas thought Hayden and ewan were going to quick to be believed by the viewer.
@@mikeyguest6596 that's 1 of my main problems with the Autopsy is that it acts as if these mistakes could be taken advantage of, at the speed they're going there isn't enough time AND ObiWan isn't TRYING to kill Anakin, and Anakin is a show off
@@zaffarismail1508 All fights are like dances after all, and they do an amazing job at this! So nah dude, you don't sound silly, you sound right :>
regardless of any minor issues, I think we can all agree that as a cinematic fight scene this is extremely epic
I think the " I have failed you" line does make sense, because we see throughout the prequels that many time obi wan dismisses, or just doesn't really listen to Anakin and his struggles
I think it's because he doesnt understand anakin's, inability to let go. While obi wan as every jedi feels emotions, through his education he has learned not to let himself be overwhelmed by them and understand that sometime there's just nothing you can do, like when satine died.
@@ddy7323 um ok, I'm not sure if you're trying to argue against me, reinforce my point, or just add to the discussion.
in any case, what you said is interesting, but I don't really have anything to comment on it, plus I never watched the clone wars tv show, so I don't know much about satine.
@@slkjvlkfsvnlsdfhgdght5447 Satine was a woman that obi wan loved that darth maul killed write in front of him out of spite. He didn't go to murderous rage, or went on a quest for revenge but he did grieve.
@@slkjvlkfsvnlsdfhgdght5447 What i was trying to say is that it's not so much simple dismissal from obi wan so much as he didn't understand or couldn't comprehend why he was struggling so much.
@@ddy7323 I disagree, but ok
If there’s anything I got out of this, Anakin kept to his word that “spinning is a good trick”
Plot Twist: The actors actually fought and whoever won influenced the rest of the movie
That'd be awesome.
"Yeah me and Hayden got into an argument and started fighting each with the lightsabers, turns out George was filming the whole time." - Ewan Mcgregor
"Yeah, I ate from both Hayden's and Evan's plate while they went for drinks and made a mess on the table. I let them shake it down w each other outside the cantina and just kept the camera rolling..."
- George Lucas
@@petrowegynyolc7108 😂😂😂
But then how dearth Vader in original trilogy
You have to remember we have been fighting together for many years so we know how the other fights, and our different styles of lightsaber combat (Anakin uses form 5 and me form 3). Also, the force allows us to even better predict the movements of each other. BTW form 5 focuses on heavy large strikes to pressure your opponent while form 3 focuses on mainly defensive moves to wait for an opening to take advantage of.
P.S. I was once called THE master of Soresu (form 3) by master Mace Windu
Edit: This is one of the nerdiest comment sections I’ve ever seen and I love it
Edit 2: Also I wasn’t trying to kill him until later I was simply trying to disarm him at first. And he was being reckless and letting his emotions take over, he wasn’t thinking as strategically as normal. Also (out of character here) some parts of this footage are actually slowed down so the music, Duel of the Fates, didn’t seem awkward and out of place.
You're not obi wan. Stop pretending
I believe he called you the undisputed master of Soresu
@@samiuddin7051 I’m not pretending that I am
Battle of the Heroes not Duel of the Fates
@@samiuddin7051 From my point of view, he is Obi-Wan!
Seems like the choreographers knew what a fight would look like, we're able to adapt that for Hollywood style, and we're only limited by the actor's abilities (which weren't bad tbh)
I'm pretty sure you meant were. We're is we are. Don't worry about it. I learned this when I was 6. I'm sure you'll get around to it.
@@lordodysseus yep
Lucas: overchoreographed they said, unrealistic they said, surrounded by yes men they said. At least my character knew how to fight!
Rian: *burp* edit out that d*burp*agger!
hey hey hey....don't insult Rick.....he'd know how the fuck to write a decent film. He'd be straight on Rian's ass telling him to get Schwifty
@@darko-man8549 i was emulating more a drunk fat swamp guy then Rick though you are very much right
Alberts Choise okay. You are forgiven.
@@darko-man8549 Rian would have written a good film if he'd Got Schwiftyyyyyyy
I think the “I failed you” line is one of the best lines in Star Wars. For me, Star Wars and especially the prequels are not about “good Jedi” against “evil Sith” but about the dangers of, in lack of a better word, extremism on both sides. Anakin looses his mother because the Jedi forbade him to rescue her, and afterwards he’s told to “control his emotion” (so basically “Calm down”), he expects to lose the love of his life because the Jedi teachings don’t allow him to seek help for her. And still he told Windu about Palpatine (the one who promised him to help Padme and his best father figure) being a Sith Lord, basically sacrificing his love for the Jedi. And then Windu tries to ignore the Jedi code, the one Anakin sacrificed everything for. That’s the moment he becomes Darth Vader, that’s the point of no return. And it’s the failings of the Jedi and by extension Obi Wan that brought him there.
Obi Wan failed him because as a close friend and mentor he should have seen it coming. He should have been someone Anakin can talk to, and I think he knows that. I think that’s why Obi Wan (and Yoda) went on to become hermits, because they knew that it were the Jedi whose failings created Darth Vader.
*loses
Spot, fucking, on! I've explained this in similar fashion to many, yet they still persist in their mindset that Anakin's downfall was badly written. The prequels did not deserve the hate they got.
Lucas did everything as he should. Some fans simply would never accept different story from OT.
Lucas went too far with Jar Jar in ep1 and kid Anakin shouldn't destroyed Droid ship but everything else was good paced movie with lot of locations and showed universe in state of decay and rise of Sith though corrupt system.
next two episodes build on that state of universe till showdown in ep3
prequels have such huge scope of universe and no other franchise came close. Actions taken on Coruscant were felt across galaxy and Anakin journey into darkness step by step was awesome He was kid who looked on Jedi as heroes, wanted to become jedi to save his mother and others from slavery. after time he becomed arrogant because he was better than other students, tortured by dreams about his mother, want to see what is happening with her and Obi Wan tell him dreams pass in times, When he got his first assignment still is tortured by dreams but he put duty first until he cant take anymore and went to see what is wrong with his mother, try to save her, she died and he killed her captors, swear that he won't fail again on grave of his mother, arrogant again and was fried by lighting and lost an arm from duel with Dooku, prideful my power are doubled since we met, use anger and kill Dooku, still save Obi wan, he learn that will become father which is problem for Jedi, tortured by dreams of his wife death, ask jedi about visions and they tell him to be happy that others die miss them do not mourn them do not. Palpatine masterfully control Anakin and make that Jedi humiliate him by not giving him rank of master, Anakin and Jedi council are moving far from each other. Jedi Council ask that he spy Palpatine before they even knew he was Sith which make Jedi bad and power hungry that want to control and are no different then Siths. Palpatine reveal himself to Anakin and promise him that he can help him save his wife Padme. Anakin in shock that his fatherfigure is sith went to seek Jedi but realize that they are no different and when came into Palpatine office, Windu wants to kill Palpatine and only Anakin say that's not Jedi way and Windu answer same as palpatine did after Dooku died which confirmed for Anakin that Jedi are no different from Siths so he cut windu hand and Palpatine fried windu. After being part of killing leaading member of jedi council, life he knew was over and only side he have is with Palpatine. To become more powerful to learn dark side to use it like Plageous, he must do dark deeds so he Purged Jedi from temple. After that he went to destroy separatists and he brought peace to the galaxy. After that he had time to reflect on his actions but he has gone too far and choice he made is permanent. Padme hears what happened and want check for herself so she went on mustafar and Obi Wan secretly boarded and after Anakin saw her, she wanted to leave but he wanted to stay because they don't have to run anymore and he still didn't learn what he need to save her, After that Obi Wan appear, he thought that Padme brought Obi Wan to kill him so he force choke her feeling betrayed and only because of arrogance he lost against Obi Wan.
Awesome and unique story of Anakin Skywalker. And that was mostly two movies because TPM was mostly Qui Gon and obi Wan movie.
@@michaelstark8720 good points but holy fuck pls learn english before you write another essay like that. It actually hurt me physically to read this
@@oteila6151 If you can understand it, then its good enough. Anyway you want more essays? Here we go.....
Very late. But the "I have the high ground!" and "Don't try it." is actually pretty valid. Obi Wan spent a lot of time meditating and thinking about that moment when he managed to leap over Darth Maul and mentally went through how it could've gone. And more than likely would've taught Ani what happened that day. So Obi could see that Ani was planning on pulling a similar move, hence the "Don't try it." which, Ani does and Obi Wan counters.
I made that point. This whole fight scene starts and end thematic elements through the whole star wars story. I love it.
@How did I get subscribed to this channel? He did.
Coreographer: the actors made a few mistakes but the scene it's fast and flashy so no one will notice. I mean, Who would ever make a one hour long analysis of this fight frame by frame?
Shad: so we'll see
Hold my ale.
Ha ha
Shad: Of course I know him, he is me!
isn't that what basically happened in last jedi?
@@mcolottiboy no it just was done half ass in that one.
I could argue that alot of the spins obi wan does was done to see where he was going, since hes walking backwards alot
Correct
And turning forward momentum into rotational one so he doesn't need to spend as much energy to block those strikes.
Nice! That makes a lot of sense. Thanks for pointing that out.
You could also argue that Obi Wan didn't take advantage of any openings and striked at the weapon because he didn't actually want to kill Anakin
@@howardlam6181 which makes even more sense if you consider that he is using form 3 which is defensive and tries to use as little power as possible
Everything about this scene suggests a massive amount of time and effort was put into it. The director, choreographer, cinematographer, composer, stuntmen and actors all understood why the characters were fighting, how they were fighting, what their goals were and what their limits were. They must have spent ages planning every little detail, and I think it holds up really well even today. That throne room scene from The Last Jedi however, fails at the first hurdle. We as the audience have no idea why the Imperial Guards are fighting now that their leader/employer is dead. At least I didn't. Add to that all the inconsistencies, mistakes rectified in post and general sloppy choreography, and it pales in comparison. Substance vs Superficiality I guess.
Just training wise. Hayden and Ewan spent 3 hours a day, every day for 6 months practicing for this fight. They broke SO many stunt sabers and accidentally hit eachother countless times to get this fight so tight and fast.
what makes this fight more impressive is that it was in real time, the actors were actually performing those moves.
I always assumed that the Imperial Guards fight Rey and Kylo out of loyalty/revenge. But you’re right about how this is never explained to the audience.
What are you even on about? They just saw these people kill the guy they're paid to protect. Why would they just stand there and let their leader's murderers just get away? These people are criminals who just killed the guy they're loyal to, of course they're going to do something about it.
With Episode 3, though, I get why these two are fighting but I never really understood Obi Wan's intentions because he clearly doesn't like the idea of fighting Anakin, but it's never made clear at all whether he wants to actually kill him or not. There's never really that moment where you see him start off on the defensive and then he realizes he has to aim to kill no matter what and both of them seem to just be fighting very defensively the entire time. It doesn't really feel like a story with ups and downs as much as it feels like just an overly flashy segment of padding to get to the point where Obi Wan can have the advantage of the high ground, where he's forced to act.
While it's a way technically worse fight scene with way more unrealistic choreography, the fight against Darth Maul is actually way better from a story and character perspective because who knows what the heck Darth Maul really wants, but you definitely understand that he's there to kill them and you see him actively adjust to the fact that he has to take on two opponents at once until they get separated and you see that nice bit of heavy-handed character work where Qui Gon is very calm and patient while Darth Maul is just pacing back and forth like he's irritated at how long this is taking. Then he gets Qui Gon and Obi Wan just goes into a rage and manages to overpower him. It's not as much of a series of flashy moves, there's clear stages to the fight with each character doing better or worse as it progresses.
In contrast, Obi Wan vs Anakin feels like they're on even footing the entire time until the end, which only makes the fight feel like it drags on and on until the final exchange. It makes for a very narrative boring action scene that gets by mostly because it's so over the top and flashy, which is a shame for the big final confrontation that the entire Prequel Trilogy was building up to. Which is to say nothing of all the CG setpieces that just make a lot of the fight feel like even more padding.
Say what you will, but I HEAVILY doubt anyone ever felt like that fight could have ended on the ropes or hover-platforms because it's so goofy that you just instinctively know they're in no danger at all.
Keep in mind, Obi Wan believed he could bring Anakin back to the light side, he didnt want to kill him or injure him, most of the fight was a defensive one, trying to prevent Anakin from getting off a killing blow. If Anakin had killed Obi Wan, he would have gone fully to the dark side because he would have had nothing left to bring him back to the light side.
Movie choreographers "I'll try spinning, that's a good trick"
Well it worked for Palpatine.
Oh, and the jumping front flip against the high ground worked for Obi-Wan against Maul.
Anakin adding “from my point of view” is actually an admission he knows he’s on the wrong side, but he’s too selfish and enraged to see that.
Yes
*yes*
Also, from his point of view, the Jedi *are* evil, because they’ve done nothing really for him except screw him over
Shayan he was bullied as a padawan, and the council didn’t do anything, the council didn’t let him check on his mother every once in a while, and despite being the hero of the clone wars, was not made a Jedi master.
@@admiralsand i only have an issue with your second and third statement. 2. He was not allowed to see his mother as Jedi are taught to shun attachment. 3. He was not made master because if i remember correctly, palpatine put anakin on the council despite the council likely not believing he was ready.
@@admiralsand I don't like sand
it's important to note that this entire fight scene was performed in real time. there is no digital speedup to the actors, the speed you're seeing in the footage is the speed they were moving at on set during recording. god it's so impressive. really makes you appreciate stuff like 40:25 EVEN MORE
Actually, this is incorrect
They *slowed it down* for some parts because they were moving so fast it didn’t look human, which could also be why some of the mistakes seem more avoidable than they would’ve been
For Anakins telegraphs, considering he's enraged it seems reasonable he would overdo some swings.
He also hasn’t slept for weeks
“Anakin, you lost your legs. It’s over now”
Anakin: “Tis but a scratch.”
*tis but a scratch
A scratch
Lets call it a draw!
It's just a flesh wound
Vader 30 years later: *It was a scratch*...
I never noticed the level of anguish on Hayden's face during this fight scene, like gosh, there's was actually so much emotion to it.
It's actually a good example of how good an actor he is. He gets a lot of flak for his role as Anakin, but most of the criticism comes from the dialogue, which isn't up to him. Any scenes where he is just able to emote are really well done. When Windu heads to arrest Palaptine and Anakin is left in the Jedi Council chamber alone (With no dialogue) you can really see his turmoil.
He stayed in character a few times on set between takes - so as not to lose the intensity. Natalie said, at one point, when she approached him, Hayden's 'warmth' was just 'gone.' I'll try and find the source.
Hayden is a really good actor, honestly. Any time that he's left to his own devices, to act... When he's not restricted by the writing? He truly feels like the man that will become Darth Vader.
Hayden was a perfect choice for Anakin at this stage: even thought George's dialogue was extremely poor and clunky, he still manages to convey a huge amount of emotion. Not just in this fight scene, but check out the difference in his character in Clones vs Sith. He portrays the fall into darkness and anger really well, and its not over the top.
53:26 "...you can't redirect your momentum. Once you are in the air, you are in the air. Granted, they are Force-users, maybe Force-users can redirect their momentum... that's _up in the air."_
- Shad, Master of Swords and Words
The "Don't use the Force against a Force user who is as good as you" was established in Episode 2 with Yoda vs. Dooku. I think both Sith and Jedi take a lot of pride in sword fighting. They use the Force to augment their senses and physical strength in a fight, like in Yoda vs. Dooku.
You could make an argument that every time Obi-wan struck at Anakin’s lightsaber, he’s trying to disarm him.
The statistical trend of disarmament in Star Wars supports your hypothesis
oh you meant THAT kind of disarm
oh
@@spaceonisorceress4406 Lmao
@@spaceonisorceress4406 haha
@@spaceonisorceress4406 A comedic giant in the flesh. A true honor.
@@tyrellwilson9334 I believe Obi Wan was hesitant to kill Anakin. He wanted to still save him or at least just incapacitate him not kill him.
This must have taken 20 hours to make having to rewatch over and over in slow and take notes then go out and demonstrate in the yard all the moves and finally record all the commentary. Great job
So, what you’re saying is....
*Spinning can sometimes be a good trick?*
Yippee!
Let's try it.
DON'T TRY IT
@@dominickeijzer5844 YoU uNdErSTiMatE mAh PoWaH!
Vaultboy101 powER. He doesn’t f*cking speak with a British accent.
The reason they do their fun little lightsaber spinning in the middle is because at this point it is showing how each of them understand how the other fights and are so in tuned with their saber form that it shows how truly connected they are
Always thought Hayden played Skywalker perfectly. Absolutely perfectly. The expression of hate he has thru out the fight is intense. Likewise for Ewan. He looks like he's on the verge of tears, almost like he can't believe what is going on. That final "I HATE YOU!" was so guttural and cathartic it gives me chills. The pain in obi wans eyes at the end is absolutely devastating.
Agree. This film is a masterpiece of portraying emotion. That scene where Anakin and Padme stare out into the distance and Anakin basically gives up on the light... pure goosebumps.
And two movie ago Anakin was like "I have to help them mom" damn that's hearth breaking
"i don't like sand"
@@villerintanthillith1762 yeah well try to be almost like a Sheldon Cooper all your life, and then when you meet the girl you fancied all those years ago. . . . Try to flirt with her.
Hayden is an S+ tier actor
"The man he faced was everything Obi-Wan had devoted his life to destroying: Murderer. Traitor. Fallen Jedi. Lord of the Sith. And here, and now, despite it all. . .
Obi-Wan still loved him.
Yoda had said it, flat-out: 'Allow such attachments to pass out of one's life, a Jedi must', but Obi-Wan had never let himself understand. He had argued for Anakin, made excuses, covered for him again and again and again; all the while this attachment he denied even feeling had blinded him to the dark path his best friend walked."
"I have failed you, Anakin; I have failed you."
I like to think that when Obi misses it's because in the story he actually doesn't want to kill Anakin. He's testing Anakin's willpower and hoping he can discourage Ani from fighting further.
My thoughts exactly. That explains perfectly Obiwan's misses and that knowledge makes Anakin more daring in his attacks following his increasing anger.
He is also attempting to disarm rather than kill which is why most of his strikes are towards the arm, hand or hilt of anakins lightsaber.
Yes,Jedi generally want to avoid killing and Ani is his padawan and friend,so yeah
heck Obi even told Yoda he couldn't do it. He should have brought Obi with him and defeated Palpy, then deal with Anakin.
At around 8:40 or so when you analyzed Obi Wan's spin block, I like to think he used it as an opportunity to quickly scan behind him while maintaining guard against Anakin. He was being pushed back pretty hard. I know it was most likely added to be flashy but it's a pretty cool idea in my opinion. Love the content!
I always saw Obi-wan's lack of aggression as the embodiment of the quote, "I can't kill Anakin."
Minor hesitations that allow a more aggressive Anakin to make mistakes he normally wouldn't.
Obi-Wan was the Máster of the defensive form Soresu. Mace windy even called him as such saying but to you Master Kenobi what Does soresu has to fill in any weakness?
@@0predaking0
idk what you are trying to say but if you are asking what Soresu weakness is, it was force user. Soresu offensive style mainly involve counter attack against light saber and blaster. A force user will have a field day with passive defender who doesnt want to fight close and dirty.
Anakin is a force user tho...but his recklessness is his undoing.
That's something Shad doesn't really consider, but for the purposes of this video, he doesn't need to. There is so much psychology at play while everything is unfolding. Good call!
I don't want you to be limited to just star wars with these vids, but I'm dying for a qui gon & obi wan vs maul breakdown.
A guy on IMDB forums did one over fourteen years ago, CoryTheLoveGod he was called. It was a really good, long analysis. Showing how Obi-Wan and Qui Gon fight together and how Maul is a very good match for them, but is so aggressive that he gets cocky. Really good analysis, wish I'd saved it.
@@visionist7 I agree. Especially when Maul did the spark thing, he became so cocky that he expected that Obi-Wan will not be able to jump back up. Obi-Wan did take note of that cockiness and managed to pull the trick of catching Darth Maul in surprise and cutting him in half.
YES
When Obi Wan misses opportunities, keep in mind he didn't wanna kill Anakin.
edit: spelling
Yeah at best he just wanted to stop him without landing a fatal blow
Obi Wan was practicing defensive fighting as he was a master of the combat form. Defend until you gain a tactical advantage.
@Kiernan Rogers I guess he mean the high ground
@Kiernan Rogers yes but again he didn't want to land a fatal blow unless he had to. He didn't want to kill anakin except as a last resort so he ignored all those possible fatal openings to avoid doing that
@Kiernan Rogers That can be explained in universe with the force. Force users can predict incoming attacks and speed up their bodies using the force. Obi Wan masted the Saber art of defense and is heralded as the greatest defensive fighter in all Star Wars.
15:51 I think the reason Obi-Wan does that spin is just so he could get a brief glimpse of where he's going. Remember, he hasn't been to Mustafar before, and he's fighting Anakin while being pushed back the entire time, for all he knows Anakin could be pushing him to the edge of the platform and end up throwing him off into the lava, so he does a quick spin to get a little glimpse of how much platform he has left and if there's no obstacles in the way before continuing the fight.
interesting thought!
On the whole "bad dialogue" bit when they're on the platform, I understand that the line delivery's not perfect and it may seem nonsensical to a degree but you're ignoring the big picture the Prequels painted about Anakin's apprenticeship to Kenobi. Obi-Wan's rigidly orthodox in his teachings, adhering to standard Jedi norms, where Anakin's unique circumstances (emotional/attachment issues due to age) required a more unorthodox teacher like Qui-Gon. A good example of this is comparing Qui-Gon's advice to Anakin versus Obi-Wans'
"Use the Force, feel don't think" -Qui-Gon in TPM
"Use the Force, think" -Obi-Wan in AoTC
It's subtle but you can easily see it. Plus if it wasn't obvious enough that Anakin and Obi-Wan didn't get along during Anakin's time as a padawan they literally bicker with eachother endlessly during AoTC and whine about eachother to others around them, like Padme. Obi-Wan did his best but the problem always was that he was too orthodox of a Jedi to truly give Anakin the teaching he needed to handle his issues, the entire point of introducing Qui-Gon is to show a teacher who could've saved Anakin but the Sith intervened and Darth Maul managed to eliminate him, sealing the Jedi Order and Anakin's fate (Until Luke comes along that is)
Precisely. It bugs me that people keep missing that. It was an important theme throughout the whole trilogy, it was one of the key factors that led to his downfall.
Plus, Anakin's strange vocal inflections could easily be due to the fact that he's consumed by the Dark Side and in a stage of unhinged rage. He's emotionally unstable. I noticed he sounded differently after his turn compared to the rest of the film, so I figured it was intentional. Guy wasn't in his right mind, and I think it's further reinforced after he's put in the suit, since he sounds like his more rational old self and seemingly had no recollection of how he hurt Padmé. Just tossing ideas out there that I've had since watching the films.
The different voice was an intentional choice Hayden made. He wanted to imitate Vader's way of speaking and voice, at least partially, to bridge the gap between young Anakin and Vader.
@@AnimaVox_
The point is, it was defined that to be smart it is mandatory to hate prequels. Anakin is not charismatic like Luke so he has to be burned in criticism and nothing in the film is worth it. So the so-called "smart" are taking these little details in the film and acting as if they were hard evidence that nothing in the prequels is good.
Fiddle Sticks Exactly! It’s the same reason why Anakin in AOTC is such a creepy, awkward teenager.
He was a slave until the age of 9 on a backward planet lacking any just legal system, then he sees and engages in a battle in which people die, only to then be taken away from the only home he ever knew and the only family he has to be indoctrinated in a religious cult.
Add onto that lack of emotional development and normal social development the likes of puberty and you would have some really fucking awkward kid.
Never mind him being unnaturally talented and always told he was the best and possible Chosen One while also being treated as an outsider by the other padawans and distrust by those such as Mace Windu.
People hate the character, but think it’s just bad writing because they fail to look beneath the surface and think “Why would Anakin say that, why would he be like this?” It’s all in character for Anakin, but not in character with this idealised chad protagonist with endless charisma that they imagine Darth Vader to be as a young man.
CinemaWins actually made a pretty good point, saying Anakin may not have turned if Qui-Gon was his master. Qui-Gon was much more a spirit of the law rather than the letter
Obi-Wan, true master of Soresu, keeps a defensive stance going EVEN while doing flashy spins 🤣, what a boss.
TheAntiTrope troll master obi-wan man
52:00 "I've always wondered why they don't use Force powers more often." Well Shad, the answer to that actually gets back each Force Wielder's philosophy. Obi Wan and Anakin were what is known as Jedi Guardians, they focus more on subtle uses of the Force and more on fighting and bladework. They were actually both using the Force this entire battle.
For example, Anakin is much better at precognition than Obi Wan, so he is actively seeking what Obi is gonna do. Anakin is also using the Force to augment his strength his dexterity, his endurance, etc.
And Obi Wan was actually renowned for his ability to turn his body completely over to the Force in battle. At the beginning Obi Wan has to focus more attention on Anakin since he wasn't very good at precognition, so he uses the Force to augment his reaction time, his speed of movement, and his endurance. But as time moves on, he will actually begin to progressively allow the Force itself to direct his limbs in battle.
And overt uses of the Force often weren't worth the effort, because it takes just that split second to focus on telekinesis and that opens you up to an attack. And if the object you are about to throw is too far away, then you are going to lose your hand.
Definitely lengthy, but that's most of the lore on that question.
Force flow state, awesome
Also during the fight over the lava (which is also when they are arguably at their most EXHAUSTED) is when they have to direct that force instead to just a barrier to make sure neither one just bursts into flame due to proximity. One clean hit could disrupt concentration and kill the one who got hit.
I sometimes wonder why there hasn't been a force user that fights by controlling their lightsaber(s) with the force, like, straight up wielding it(them) through telekinesis.
@@ansrfururactionsMy thinking is that it may be more practical for most Force users to simply just strengthen their arms to make impactful and swift swings because without arm control they'd need extremely precise and potent Force control to fight with the lightsaber in that way. Now on the other hand perhaps throwing weapons could benefit from that method since they're replaceable and likely require less finesse once they leave the hand which can allow the Force to move the much lighter object.
@@icycrusader1947 though, at the same time, you gain the range and versatility advantage, can't be hit if your opponent is multiple yards away from you and is preoccupied with blocking multiple, rapidly striking laser swords to stay alive.
It occurred to me while I was watching your breakdown that these lightsaber fights all have a fatal flaw: The blinding flashes.
The flashes produced from the lightsabers striking each other would absolutely blind the fighters unless they closed their eyes for a split second.
Temporary blindness would be a MAJOR obstacle when using these weapons, especially in a dark environment.
They would need something like welding goggles to protect their eyes.
Unfortunately they had to use dowels in the hilts as blades, natural ambient glows or flashes on the actors or terrain, but better effects than the original pre-CGI mattes from the original trilogy.
I imagine that, considering how long they've had the lightsabers and they've used them against other lightsabers that they'd be more accustomed to the flashes. I could definitely be wrong, but if you're more used to bright flashes, youd be able to recover better from them.
@@benjamindupaix6425
Yes, you are definitely wrong. Over time, looking at the extremely bright flashes would cause you to become permanently blind.
Perhaps this is why force users use it the most. The force protects their eyes. Heh.
Instead of goggles perhaps force perception AKA they litterally don't need their eyes they can sense what's happening
As a writer myself I say Obi Wan saying "I have failed you" is that he failed as his teacher, he feels like should have done more for Anakin and he is regretful of what is going on shown with how Kenobi at times does not really try to strike his friend. Everything else could have used different wording tbf.
Good luck with your writing. It sure isn't easy.
Yeah, I thought it odd that he wasn't able to empathise with the sentiment. It's not like emotions are rational. It's similar to a parent being disappointed in their kid for bullying or stealing; when someone you're responsible for strays, you feel like you should've done more.
I would imagine that if you see a student that you really believed in and poured a lot of time and energy in completely fail in everything you tried to teach you do feel responsible for it. Even if there is nothing you could have done to stop it. Also it's very much like Obi-Wan to lament seeing his pupil fail rather than cast blame his way.
My headcanon for the flourish-off is that it was just a moment of competing double-vision where they had a moment to both engage their Jedi-Future-Vision but with them becoming concious of what their opponent was about to do the future was just a whirlind and they both tried to parry strikes that would never come, but I'm fully concious of the fact that I just pulled that explanation out of my arse so my own enjoyment doesn't get hampered by that scene.
You know that would be an interesting explanation
That what I've always thought. You've got two combatants who each have precognitive powers each trying the sway the next moment of the future in their favor. They're basically in a precog bind there, seeing twelve moves ahead, and nothing works.
That’s exactly what I’ve always thought
Schw4rztee sort of like in Mistborn
I actually had the same thought about that scene, and several other weird moments during this and other fights.
"We're only 9 seconds into this fight scene!"
EFAP has taught you well, Shad.
Let the pausing flow through you Shad
"In time, Shad, you will learn to trust your pauses. Then you will be invincible. I have said it many times. You are the most gifted long man I have ever met. I see you are becoming the greatest of all long men, Shad; even longer than Master MauLer."
What would Shad's sith name be?
My vote is on Darth Machilocations.
@@lordofthepizzapie9319
Darth Milquetoast. That way they think he's a pushover and next thing they know they have no arms or legs.
"My Length has doubled since the last time we met, Massives."
9:30 I really like this part. It could've been done slightly differently, but the spin was still plausible so they went with that to make it look cooler. It wasn't just a pointless "speen cuz it looks cool" it was a plausible way to block Anakin's blow and looked cool as well.
"Remove the stupid is good." (Shad, 2019.)
Can we just appreciate the fact that Shad coreographed his swordplay sections to follow his main narration, meaning this isn't his usual style of narrating that part where he does it separately from the main narration?
Not to say it's something unique or anything, but that's a lot of planning. And the fact that they are in sync with the narration is so nice! Must've taken a lot of time to plan out. Good on ya Shad
"Sorry Ahsoka... reverse grips are dumb." I love Ahsoka and I laughed so hard. Her style look very cool but I always wondered about the practicality of it. Ah, she can have it - she is too believable.
Tbf reverse grip is good for certain parries that open up a strike with a mainhand.
the reverse grip isn't "generally" practical, but it is practical.
irl we teach soldiers both methods of holding a knife (reverse and forward) because both are practical and useful in specific circumstances
give a marine a knife and their first reaction when using it for fighting purposes is to reverse grip it
the same advantages apply with full length blades, it just comes at the disadvantage of the length makes it much..much easier to cut yourself and it's defensive ability is reduces
for someone accustomed to their weapon "losing" it doesn't happen, your mind considers it a natural extension of you and you the need to constantly be thinking of it is eliminated, competition shooters and soldiers for instance, after enough time will simply be able to react with their weapon and not think about where there arms are or if the weapon is on point
and she had/has good reason for using it, namely it's extremely unorthodox, and her style/form relies on extreme aggression to avoid fatigue and ultimately death
the only people who'd even be somewhat trained to deal with that shit are jedi, sith and Grievious
one you never fight, one was supposed to be extinct, and who tf thinks about a metal robot with a lightsaber being a thing?
droids, bounty hunters and criminals are all atleast somewhat familiar with lightsabers and how they're used, you bypass that alltogether with unorthodox means
people knowing how you fight is and always has been the bane of any fighting force, no matter how effective you are if you're predictable then an enemy will fuck you for that
Using a reverse grip is practical in a defensive position. Much like someone instinctively raises their arm when physically threatened, the reverse grip can react in such a way
Revese grip gives you a solid blunt object to jab with
I think the fact that Lightsabers are both weightless blades and don’t need momentum to cut removes some of the negative aspects of a reverse grip that you’d have with a sword
The high ground here actually is an advantage due to the ground being slippery with a bit of a slope and rocks and also due to the fact there is lava behind Anakin.
And because the only move that Anakin could make to reposition himself, is a jump.
Some other Star Wars super fan probably already pointed out that
1: Obi-Wan wasn't trying to kill Anakin, and Anakin was purposefully being portrayed as wreckless for story purposes. So every instance that Obi-Wan could have killed Anakin and didn't, and every instance of Anakin broadcasting or leaving himself open, I consider to be completely in-line with the story, and choreographed into the fight pretty well.
That stupid thing inside where they're auditioning for marching band is still terrible, though.
2: The line about "From my point of view the Jedi are evil." is a direct throw-back to a quote from RotJ where Obi-Wan defends the version of the story he had told Luke in ANH where Vader betrayed and murdered his father, stating, "what I told you was true, from a certain point of view. You're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."
3: I forget which EU book it was (Maybe Shadows of the Empire, it's been 20 years since I read them...), but before the prequels were released there was a book that pretty much determined how this fight ended. The book described the final attempted leap over Obi-Wan's head, and subsequent removal of Anakin's legs by Obi-Wan, as well as Obi-Wan leaving him there next to an active volcano (that's how it was described in the book, not a volcano planet, but an active volcano) where Anakin suffered burns over his entire body.
4: I am almost certain that the way lightsabers are supposed to work is that they do not slide against each other, but bind where they touch, hence why there is only one instance of a lightsaber with any form of hand guard, which if you look at that dipshit's lightsaber those wouldn't be effective anyway because if a lightsaber were to slide down it to the hand the pommel juts out before the energy portion of the hand guard begins, and a lightsaber would just go right through it, between the saber hilt and the energy portion of the hand guard. I knew the moment I saw Kylo's dumbass saber that the new movies were doomed.
On force attack vs force defense in the books where force users fight each other, the way the fight is described each combatant can feel when the other reaches out to use the force for more than just general speed and conditioning purposes to use it as a force push or pull or to throw something and has the time to disrupt that attack either with their own force abilities or with a lightsaber. The general way the fights would go is if one or the other were much stronger in the force they would use that, and if they were roughly equal in force ability but one was a much better swordsman then the weaker swordsman would require more concentration on the duel and the better swordsman could sneak in force attacks, even if their abilities with the force were lesser than that of the other. That's why it was important to train with the sword, so that a brilliant swordsman but generally weaker in-the-force assailant couldn't use swordsmanship to overpower/distract someone who is stronger in the force but unskilled with a saber.
Yes, I am incredibly bitter about Disney's destruction of the Star Wars Extended Universe.
There are problems with fight that have nothing to do with narrative. You can't just use blanket statements to excuse everything just because of a element of the story. Besides, the movies are self-contained and have nothing to do with the books.
Even if lightsabers’ blades’ bind, Kylo’s crossguard is still useful in the sense that it can still be used for offense. I think it’s in a clash with Finn where their sabers are locked but one of the crossguard blades begin cutting into Finn’s arm.
Yeah the sequels are dumb but I think Kylo Ren is one of the few good things to come out of it
@@nobro6971 Those cross guards look like they'd be better at disarming (dishanding?) yourself more than your opponent. If they were angled 45 degrees towards the tip then they'd be much more helpful in disarming your opponent and far less dangerous to yourself.
@Bread It's getting to where Disney owns so much stuff that all of the movies and TV we watch go through them and their own agenda permeates everything they do.
That's a long ass comment
Me: I really loved this fight, I know it’s not realistic but I hope Shad isn’t too brutal with it...
0:30 “this fight scene is actually really good”
Me: YES!
Ah yes thank you
It kind of tears me in two to see this.
Because there are some instances where the plot would explain some of the moves taken.
Slight precognition, the difference in physical strength and speed between the two opponents, the familiarity of the characters, the motives (i.e Obi-Wan doesn’t really want to kill Anakin.) and the fact that Anakin makes more mistakes because he’s tapping into the Dark Side and his negative emotions.
But at the end of the day it’s still a technical flaw.
Ah well, at least I can say I liked the Prequels for the choreography than the shite we got in the sequels.
And the really good stuff we have here is worth it I think.
To the point where I agree with Shad, This IS the best lightsaber duel in Star Wars.
I was going to comment on this myself and then saw this comment.
Obi-Wan is a better fighter and trying to talk/calm/wear Anakin down, he's not making a killing blow because he's not trying to kill.
IF Obi-Wan had wanted to disable/kill Anakin from the start, the fight would have been over in the first real exchange.
@@xSniper1982 Id argue that Obi Wan was the better fighter then. As a whole Anakin tops him easily when it comes to sheer skill and talent. Anakin is however, completely overtaken with rage so in this duel Obi Wan is able to contain him and even finishes the fight by capitalizing on the rage and arrogance of Anakin.
@nathaniel gray
Soresu, form 3 which he supplements with form 4 Ataru.
Anakin uses one of two variants of from 5 Djem So, which while it is marked by counter offensive principles is also marked by heavy offensive movements.
The best part about this dual is that all the mistakes make sense with the lore and chemistry between the two characters, so all around it’s perfect
"now you may assume that there wosynt much to deconstruct here But"
Shad is clearly a different level species
Shad is a character built using the Epic Level Handbook.
“Star Wars doesn’t see many thrusts”
Me: laughs in Senate
and the senate's granddaughter
Have you heard the tragedy of "the senate"?
So it is treason then *ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Ingy De Gmar actually I have seen that video
*Laughs in Dooku*
I love how it's a deadlock throughout. These two are perfect reflections of each other.