Zone 2 Is Overrated Says Norwegian Super Coach
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- Опубліковано 15 чер 2024
- Zone 2 training is all over the internet these days, but not everyone is sold on it. Are you wasting your time by focusing too much on zone 2? And is it really as game-changing as some say? In this video, Olav Aleksander Bu shares his thoughts on zone 2 training, discussing its potential shortcomings, and crucially, what we might be able to do instead and potentially BETTER in our training!
Are you wasting your time with zone 2? 0:00
Welcome Olav! 1:48
Nuance regarding what zone 2 actually improves in the body 2:15
The power of mitochondria and mitochondrial efficiency 4:22
Performance and how training impacts all systems of the body 9:24
What do you suggest for people training 6-8 hours per week? 16:27
Variety in training, consistency, and leaving intervals in reserve 18:58
Why leave an interval in reserve 22:23
Alternative training philosophy and how to create consistency 27:04
Conclusion 32:28
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Are you a fan of Zone 2 training? 🚴
In short, no - not a fan. I work intervals into almost every ride. Some more than others. Stopped with that nonsense a few years ago and have never been faster.
@@mumm-ratheeverliving3138 Do you not find that you burn yourself out too quick?
Absolutely not! I like high intensity and I don't like this low intensity laziness :)!!
Yes, because I'm able to get on the bike (indoor or outdoors) more often without getting sick and as a result I'm on stronger on specific targeted rides. I found that stressing the heart and the immune system too often was a recipe for longer periods of rest through sickness. Of course I would have higher intensity training but once or 2 twice per week.
Not at all! Learned to listen to my body. I push just a little over threshold with each interval, recover for a bit then smash another one out. Having a lot of fun with that!
The ridiculous clickbait title seems a disservice to Si’s excellent interview and GCN’s otherwise high standards. It would also appear to be rather insulting to your guest. He categorically does NOT say that zone 2 is a waste of time but provides a high level of nuance.
It's the game of UA-cam. Blame UA-cam not GCN.
Olav kept reinforcing a point that is the problem of all competitive people - "don't go bonkers (over exertion)". When we are feeling good in our training regiment, we want to push ourselves to the limit. The wear and tare this has on the body demands a lot of recovery, opens us up for injury and keeps the body in a repair state instead of a build state. I fought this tendency to max out until I had an injury serious enough to teach me otherwise. I really liked the whole conversation and it all hit home for me.
Consistent training and consistently doing the same variation of training (focused to your own goals/targets ) is going to help but you have to be disciplined with yourself and look at the long game and not the 'smash it up' effort in a busy plan when you've got a longer effort/ride the next day - you'll be feeling it for the majority .. We've all done it :D i have..
What injury did you get?
In Norway you learn this when you’re ten and start cycling, cross country skiing or running. Do one session of intervals (zone 3-5) a week and the rest of sessions is zone 1-2. Also best recovery is sleeping enough. Unless you’re aiming for pro your training plan doesn’t need to be more advanced than this for the average Joe with family, work and the occasional grand fondo. I tried many of these workouts plans of different apps like Zwift, but most of them drains you in a few weeks because the load is too high when you have a normal lifestyle.
It can be really tricky to balance life and training! Do you have any tips for people that are struggling with this?
@@gcnquit your job
@@gcn Use available time. I drive my son to soccer practice. All the other parents sit in their cars and watch and wait. I go to the gym next to the soccer field. I got 83 sessions last year at the gym by doing this. If you don’t want to be far away from home if the kids are old enough to be alone for a little while, do laps in the neighborhood. Running, walking, cycling to work is also “free” zone 2 time.
@@gcn Walking is also kind of a national thing in Norway. We walk all the time. I take the buss to work, but jump off the bus two stops before work and walk the rest. Same after work. This gives me 30 minutes of walking each day that I don’t even notice.
I have seen people on social media following zwift fitness plans and do 8-12 weeks of training with an FTP test at the end and they only gain 10-15watts. I belive that their gains are stunted because of a number of factors. I am coaching two guys in their mid/late sixties who've been gaining ~10-15 watts a month with consistent training over six months - doing zone 2/3 training in the majority with zone 4 threshold efforts. People who ride a bike and want to train should do so with specific training and not 'do stuff cos zwift says so' without realising what each targetted training gives them.
So basically he doesn't disagree. He is talking about high high performance where 99.99% is cycling population is not. Basically, zone 2 still valid, specially for amateur like the rest of us. The 80/20 or 90/10 still valid.
For most people it'll be about getting consistency and milage under the belt 🙌 That said, it was interesting to hear that sweet spot trainning might be the route to go down 🤔
@@gcn I have to disagree a little bit. I know so many cyclists and runners and most of them get enough volume and miles. The intensity on the other hand is often lacking.
The right thing is to do 2 or 3 real workouts per week. Zone 2 is filler depend of how much you can do more.
They really do a lot of z1 too with much of their z2 being low z2 to make the best of the hard stuffs.
@@Nyonideand many do too much intensity. This is all about finding what's ideal for a given person
Key take home from both coaches: consistency is king.
Ride ride ride! There isn't any replacement 🙌
@@gcn I don't believe he was saying that. I took from it that you need progressive overload....... kJ's burned per week/month need to increase or you stagnate (hit the ceiling). And, that Z2 only training will get you so far, you need to add in high/medium intensity if you want to keep progressing esp if time crunched. What he didn't say but is really saying is, you can't recover from doing high/medium intensity training everyday, so the fillers/alternate days should be Z1/Z2 (of 5 zone/7 zone model(s))
The thumbnail and the title are 100% clickbait! Obviously, nobody ever said «Replace all your training with Z2 ». You don’t need to be a Norwegian to know it wouldn’t be efficient 😂 Still, the video is very informative, and I appreciate seeing a different take on Zone 2 training and hearing different way of thoughts on the topic!
100% agree. Click bait 😏
Have you watched it yet? Personally I think he raises some really interesting points, particularly relating to mitochondria. Cheers, Si
Si, I am sorry, I love you guys! But the title is literally “zone 2 is waste of time”, not even “Is zone 2 a waste of time?”. And yes, I have watched it and even his opinion is (simplified) “Mondays and Wednesdays zone 2”. As in everything, moderation and variety. I also was intrigued by the mitochondrial function not being the limiting factor, as well. I understand your business and the fact that probably the title choice is not dependent on the presenters.
Ditto! But keep in mind that this channel is not just a few guys getting together to make content for UA-cam. It's a corporation that has to meet payroll obligations. And these video presenters need to generate click the same way Fox Media, CNN, MSNBS, etc need to generate clicks. Clickbaiting is the standard norm.
The sad thing about cycling channels is that there is only just so much that can be talked about. Have you guys noticed how many repeat topics GNC has been generating? It probably won't last another 2 years. That's my guess.
Well, we've been going 11 years, hopefully we'll last a couple more! Sorry you think that this is clickbait, personally I disagree. I also think if you look back through recent videos you'll see a complete absence of clickbait in other titles too.
The format is great. Really, any content from you to get my mind off the rest of the burning world is great. The longer the better.
This all sounds like scientific support for Eddie Merckx's training suggestion: "Ride a lot, sometimes ride hard". It all makes total sense. I'm glad this research has been done. Thanks for the great video!
I love every interview I get to watch with Olav. To see how he thinks about the approach is amazing and eye-opening. Thanks so much, top-notch content.
Thanks for keeping things simple Olav!
@gcnm please keep on with content like this. Keep them coming. The quality of this channel keeps improving. It's a pleasure to watch you and to learn from you. I just love it 🙏!
@gcn please keep on with content like this. Keep them coming. The quality of this channel keeps improving. It's a pleasure to watch you and to learn from you. I just love it 🙏!
I love the format as opposed to just chunks of info taken from an interview. I even listen to Adams loooong posts on zero friction cycling. Great work. Also, it's very helpful to get other descriptions or points of view. He speaks of nuance...he does a great job of pointing out nuances of training....great and helpful to me.
Great to hear you enjoyed the video! We love these long form interviews, are there any other subjects you would like us to cover?
Pro bike fitter....not at home changes. Actual the entire process (dealing with hip impingement, saddle set back,etc).
Race tactics
If you did enjoy his perspective, Olav has a podcast called the Norwegian Method where he goes into fine detail on many aspects of elite endurance sports.
Great interview. Thanks Si. What a treat to be a GCN subscriber.
Great video guys. The title got me to watch, but the discussion surely didn’t disappoint.
This is what we like to hear 🙌
@@gcn Yeah. Every business owner likes to think they deliver something of value.
No-one ever said only Zone 2 training except GCN, in my opinion. Human nature makes most of us tend to do 0% Zone 2 because it doesn’t feel like it is doing anything. It’s a revelation that Zone 2 is actually really important part of training. 80-85% of training time should be in Zone 2, which is extremely hard to do! Most of us do way too much training in our hard zones!
💯
Yes,even Iñigo San Millan says it's not enough to do just zone 2, you have to do the high intensity training too, just that it's really important to do a lot of continuous zone 2 in your training.
If you search on youtube almost all videos are zone 2
If Zone 2 feels like you aren't doing anything, then you are probably in Zone 1. I watched a video of Peter Attia doing a demonstration of a Zone 2 ride, and clearly he is feeling something.
@@bobp5523 I think it's a matter of categorizing perception? Zone 2 feels like you're doing something. Zone 2 doesn't feel like you're pushing, and in most people's minds that means it doesn't feel like you're training or working out. I think it's a shame that people only tend to think of working out as something that's hard, because there's a lot you can do comfortably that will still make you more fit. Zone 2 is done at a level where you really feel like you're just kind of muddling about not doing /much/ and the only reason that feels rewarding to me is because I know it will let me do more sooner, rather than breaking me down and ruining my training tomorrow or making the level of exertion I'm shooting for feel miserable.
Feeling miserable is a valid thing to do when you're actively training for competition and something you'll need to get used to if that's your goal, but even then all of your training and working out should not feel miserable, cause that's an easy way to lose motivation.... that said, probably a big part of the reason z2 is so popular is that it /doesn't/ feel miserable, and if you feel miserable you're definitely doing it wrong. Thing is, in a lot of people's minds feeling miserable is what training means. I think that's why people say "zone 2 doesn't feel like you're doing anything": because it doesn't feel punishing, and "doing something" in regards to training is expected to feel punishing for a lot of people.
Really appreciating the multiple perspectives! Well done GCN!
Love this kind of content.
It's the stuff you could read about in the magazines before they become all biased "buy this stuff" content to be able to survive.
Learning about the latest training research and hear from up-to-date caches is not a bad way to get your training going.
He actually agrees with Indigo San Millan. San Millan says also about himself he finishes his zone 2 workouts with zone 5 or zone 6 work (as a very time crunched rider). And of course your training must have a complete picture of several intensity zones.
No one has ever suggested to train 100% in Zone 2. None of this is new. In the "70's we trained by perceived effort and breathing. Spend 80% at a talking pace, 20% at higher levels. When I train on my own, I am in Zone 2 on the flats, Zone 3 on climbs. I do one or two group rides each week with younger and faster people. I am in Zones 3, 4 and 5 to keep up and the efforts come as needed rather than a certain number of minutes on or off. There isn't anything new here.
That's an interesting point! Did you catch Si talking to Nick Craig about how he stays so fit as on older racer 👉ua-cam.com/video/GCfqgnfoVWY/v-deo.html
Zone 2 is something else. Your zone 2 isn't zone 2. Every time you get into zone 3 you lose everything you did in zone 2. Please have a look at the older GCN videos with San Millan.
@@orbifold4387 did he mention it takes something like 20 minutes for your body to get back into zone2 . Which is why he likes to add on a hiit session at the end of his zone 2 sessions
@@orbifold4387 'Every time you get into zone 3 you lose everything you did in zone 2. ' That's overstating the case. you don't lose the stimuli it just takes a while (
Oh my. You sound like a weekend warrior. Do you have a beer gut, too?
Really enjoyed this. Apart from the science and the quality of the conversation I was struck forcefully once again at how well and with what an extensive vocabulary Olav communicates in a second language . In the English speaking world we take this for granted so much of the time
Couldn't agree more. Very intelligent guy
Great video. I guess variety is the spice of life, plus leave a little in the tank so you can be consistent and improve. Interesting side note. I was listening to part of an interview Victor Vincente the other day, and he said he basically followed the training formula of Bob Tetzlaff (1960 US Olympian), which was ride hard on Tuesday, Thursday, and then race on Sunday. Take it easy Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.
So, Olav was absolutely right about similar ideas being around for decades ;)
This is one of the most informative knowledge about this particular subject. Thank you for this!!!
Excellent information. Thank you GCN!
Great interview and definitely got a lot of great information. It would be interesting to that experiment he suggested in an episode or even a series! Thanks Si!
Information light discussion. 30 minutes to say:
1. Consistency over the long term is good
2. Alternate easy and hard days
3. Don't dig yourself into a hole by overdoing.
Fascinating interview! Love the nuancing! Love these Science Si deep dive interviews! Great content. Unfortunate title. Both Inigo and Olav are riveting and right. What I love about Olav's take about recovery/sleep and LISTENING TO YOUR BODY! This is particularly
importants as we age. Phil Cavell emphasizes this point in THE MIDLIFE CYCLIST. Please keep this content coming!
Great interview. He basically reaffirms that zone 2 does work...when combined with harder intensity training. There's nothing new here. Im sticking to my 80/20 training.
Sounds like you've got it nailed 👌
So you wont increase it when your recovery can handle it?
@TomSM5 Nope, I increase the intensity of the next high intensity intervals, but not the frequency.
so do i😉
That was so interesting! Did not know that mitochondrial function is "orders of magnitude" above cardiovascular function. Great interview.
Yes title a bit misleading but quality video…I’d urge people to ignore title and watch! Loads of good advice and insights from a guy who knows his stuff!
Just get on your bike and Ride. Enjoy the scenery, enjoy it along Lakers, Rivers and in the hills and Mountains.
That's the cool thing about cycling, you can get whatever you want from it 🙌
If you live in a big town, there is no lake, rivers or mountains.
And some of us don't ride for "fun"...
@@chrisdelaplante5515depends on the town, many have lakes and rivers and quite a few have mountains 😁
@@HighFell Where ? in Péru ?
Brilliant interview Si - great questions and listening skills!
Thanks for this interview!
It's been about a year since I started to deep dive into training properly.
Olav stated what I understood from reading different studies, mix & match of different training is always the best approach. Training to exhaustion could be done when training for a specific purpose and limited time (e.g. gym session for muscular hypertrophy) but in the long run isn't sustainable nor advantageous.
Btw the norwegian method is a strict pyramide training, so most of the training session are in Z2.
Great to hear that you enjoyed the video 🙌 How have you changed your training since doing the deep dive?
Great interview! Thanks!
So intersting. I now feel better with myself knowing he only change of plans you should do is doing less. This is something I started to do his year, and as I am training for ultraendurance it sometimes feel counterproductive to do less. Thanks Olav an SI!
Of course this Super Coach is correct. The concept is diminishing return. Optimizing mitochondria function is only one element in the performance equation. Zone 2 isn't a be all or panacea to training. It is only developing a baseline. Dr. Peter Attia has a superb youtube short on the subject and talks about area under the triangle. Zone 2 is the width of the base of the triangle. Peak height to an isosceles triangle is V02 max. A short peak to the triangle aka low V02 max does not optimize performance. Can't optimize V02 max which is critical to optimizing road racing without HIIT to improve power and strength.
Biggest mistake riders make that the Norwegian super coach stated, is riding too hard too often. We have all made this mistake. A variety of Zone 2 with specific HIIT to optimize V02 max is required to maximize the area inside the triangle for best road racing performance.
Thanks for the video Si and thanks to the coach for sharing his expertise.
PS. unrelatedly, I have some Norwegian genes as an American. 🙂
I would take anything that Peter Attia says with a huge grain of salt
I usually think of Zone 2 training as workouts designed to repair damaged mitochondria. Usually the damage comes from consuming too much sugar and other carbs without enough fat so the mitochondria cannot remember how to switch back and forth burning carbs and fat at will. After the mitochondria are flexible and dense and higher intensity training is necessary to increase VO2 max, there is a need for some slow recovery rides. Some might call them Zone 2 training. But I don't. I don't really consider recovery workouts to be training. To me they are more like medication.
Peter Attila’s stuff is superb.
HIIT offers massive benefit. While people get wrapped around the axle on the peak intervals, the actual average heart rate during an escalating HIIT routine is pretty much in Zone 3. The muscular loads, however, are quite high. Since heart rate lags behind muscular load until the onset of cardiac drift due to a rise in core temperature, the muscles end up getting a phenomenal workout from HIIT.
@@jlippin123Recovery rides dont exist.
what kind of jeans do you have?
"Zone 2 is a waste of time" in quotation marks, meaning he spoke those words. Anyone have the timestamp where he said it? I can't find him saying anything remotely like that. I see him saying Zone 2 is "very effective" at 28:00.
Click bait
It's a lie as far as I can tell
GCN being clickbait scumbags... it was never said
Yes, lie and clikbait. It is a shame, and I hope more people react to this sort of lie. It better not be accepted or more producers will use such shit for getting attention.
Loved this interview! I had no idea about zone training a month ago, and even though I've been adding zone 2 training to my schedule, I was never under the illusion that I could avoid high intensity for stretching my capacity, specially for climbing. And I've always heard that if you do the same thing over and over, regardless of the sport, you get diminishing returns, so it seems that variety is really the answer to most efficient training.
I've NEVER heard any reputable coach or cyclist say that the best way to train is to use only zone 2. Polarized training uses three zones, and they structure it so that you're doing 80% of your training in zone 1 (endurance), and 20% doing HIIT. So if I train 5 days per week, I do 3 long rides in zone 1, and 2 rides where I hammer intervals. I've found over many years that this type of training not only makes me faster, but I don't get burned out because I'm not going full gas every time I get on my bike like a lot of cyclists do.
I don't think the 80% is supposed to be done in Zone 1. Probably somewhere between Zone 2 and Zone 3 is ideal if you are doing Polarized Training. And it's fine to switch back and forth between Zone 2 and Zone 3 during the 80%. All the switching back and forth means the rider is not doing True Zone 2 (TZ2). TZ2 requires the rider to burn fat for fuel EXCLUSIVELY. You go in and out of Zone 3 and you cannot be doing TZ2.
@@jlippin123 I would suggest you read up on polarized training. You don't want to touch zone 2 or 3 for 80-90% of your training. As a matter of fact, if you go from zone 1 to zone 2, even for a minute, it takes at least 20 minutes to reset yourself to zone 1. Zone 2 is sweet spot, and you shouldn't be doing much at all in that zone. Zone 3 is VO2, and you want to hit that once or twice a week depending on how many hours/days you're training. Zone 3 is strictly for hitting high intensity intervals. Polarized literally means two poles. Zone 1 and zone 3. No mixing them up (unless you're doing intervals of course, because you want to ride easy between intervals). It would seem to me from your comment that you need to research this training method. I've been doing it for years and I assure you it works extremely well.
@@shepshape2585 You seem to be basing your comment on a range of three zones: 1 to 3. My comment is based on on a range of five zones: 1 to 5.
@@jlippin123 Polarized training only uses 3 zones. Hence why you're not understanding what I had originally posted. Look it up, it's a fantastic way to train.
Superb content, guys. Thanks. J
Great interview and discussion. All coaches, Inigo included, know that we need to train all systems. Zone 2 really develops the aerobic system with minimal muscular catabolic damage, but we need to train the other zones in order to the demands each rider needs. Keep up the great work Si and GCN.
Loved this,,, cracking interview, top work team.
I love the state of the pro sports economy. A guy like this has a new partnership with whatever company and that’s reason enough to go on shows and podcasts and talk training science for hours for free . Legend
This is what you should be doing more of! Real advice from real experts w/o the hype and w/o it being dumbed down.
Love these long form interview videos. More please.
Really interesting, great video👏🏻👏🏻
Very interesting, thanks for sharing 👍
The chapters feature with the video to jump around to sections is great 👌🏻
Great! This can be a podcast when you talk for 2-3 hours as well. Would 100% listen.
Fantastic interview. Super interesting
Reminds me of Haruki Murakami's book about 'what I think about when I think about running ' which presents a philosophy on consistency and keeping some in reserve
- do you believe in zone 2 training?
- no
- what training do you recommend for amateur cyclists?
- zone 2 training
ok
Fantastic discussion!!
Thanks for another great training conversation, even if it was with a guy who comes from the sockless world. I feel validated in knocking it off early today. Even more difficult than knocking it off on a bad day is stopping after the plan on a good day. I found myself so often going into „leadout mode“ on good days and delivering my imaginary sprinter to the line.
I can't believe I have free access to this type of information, thank you.
Interesting perspective thinking about fatigue from sessions a couple weeks prior. I'm so used to tracking relative effort on a weekly basis in Strava that I forget that a massive effort from a couple weeks ago could be affecting my efforts in the current week. I definitely agree that consistency week over week does lead to better growth. I find consistency by attending weekly club rides throughout the week in the evenings.
Amen! To improve, you must push yourself towards your limits. Staying in zone 2 might just keep you fit and nothing more.
Well done GCN. Good motivation.
amazing information guys.. thank you ..
What I take with me from this video, (listen to many interviews with Olav) was that it’s not just ok it is right to skip one or two intervals if you see your numbers are not keeping up.
Many of us want so much do the “homework “ and it will lead to overloading the body to much.
Now I coach myself, and I been there to not be able to do the work. When I had my coach, he was really good to balance my training.
I also liked that he said that it takes years to build up one body. That’s why I can’t just copy my training from last year exactly. I’m not in the same square. Always little different situation.
Thank you for this video
//Marie-Louise 🇸🇪
Keep them coming...these interviews... :o) keep up the good work
30 mins to say, don’t forget your intervals.
It’s still fun to hear someone say something slightly different, even if it is reinventing the wheel. THANKS GCN.
Excellent video!
Great video, thank you.
Good interview, Si! There is a lot here for an elite pro but for a common weekend warrior like me, I think alternating between hard and Z2 rides is still key. My non-researched thought is that the body adapts to anything if you do it too long so mixing up training is key. Happy riding all!
Sounds like a good idea! Have you been doing this training for a while?
@@gcn Yes, sort of. I ride in groups a lot and I can't say "hey everybody, today is a high intensity day" so I just know now that my Tuesday group is really fast so that's a hard day and Saturday is longer and more consistent, and riding with my partner is Z2. It's been a good mix for me.
Great video, thank you !!!!
In a nutshell, the mitochondria are integral to athletic performance. They need to be flexible meaning they need to be able to switch back and forth between carb fuels and fat fuels. And they need to be dense meaning they are not skinny runts but instead are big and bulky capable of producing lots of power. If the mitochondria are dysfunctional (inflexible) and rely primarily on carb fuels, then this is when Zone 2 training is most beneficial and not a waste of time. Zone 2 allows for mitophagy to eliminate the damaged mitochondria and regrow new skinny runts of mitochondria. When there are no more inflexible mitochondria to replace (usually after 6 months of training), then Zone 2 training loses its importance. Zones 4 and 5 training are important when it comes to making skinny runt mitochondria into robust and dense mitochondria. And when the athlete has healthy dense mitochondria (usually after 3 or 4 months of training), then the real training comes into play. The body now has the tools it needs to push itself to higher levels of performance.
Perfectly put! 🙌
This guys gets it
Mitochondrial density/activity/function indelibly related to redox cell signaling which is physiologically dependent on aging. A childhood seeped in fun, non pressured aerobic activity (Z1/2) is the most important factor in long term high performance endurance sports. Solid vid. 🙏🏾
Interesting discussion. I think that back in the day "zone 2" training is what we used to call LSD, long slow distance training. That was the recommended training for early in the cycling season, when one tried to develop a good "base". Then one continued with higher medium and intense workouts in order to progress.
This was spot on!!! Taking a page from strength training, I wonder about varying the time in every zone every day with the greatest time spent in the emphasized zone for that day. The exception would be on true recovery days.
I like the analogy of raising the roof by looking at shorter duration critical power and looking to improve those to improve overall strength to support zone 2 development.
Enjoyed that!
Very interesting interview which supports commonsense,that is zone 2 is not enough. I have to ask you though Simon, I have just completed the 35 minute 20 seconds on 40 seconds off routine featuring a 7 years younger and less tired looking Si. Will you change your commentary from " Push it, one last attack and Contador is on your wheel " to " Come on try a little bit harder, but do not try too hard, if you feel tired just stop for a couple of intervals, tomorrow's another day." .... I think not.
I love that session by the way ! Signed a proud member of your 20:40 club.
My take is that mitochondria can take up huge amounts of oxygen. If you are not fit enough to provide them with the oxygen, having more mitochondria won’t be of much benefit.
If you are very fit from a cardiovascular/pulmonary standpoint then increasing mitochondrial function might help.
No. The mitochondria are the weak link in most people fitness or lack of fitness. Poor diet is the primary cause for mitochondria becoming dysfunctional. And dysfunctional mitochondria is the key reason older guys who like to ride a bike complain about getting old. They think their body is just wearing out. It's not really the body as a whole usually. It is dysfunctional mitochondria. Other conditions related to this are: metabolic syndrome, pre-diabetes, diabetes, insulin resistance, clogged arteries, fatty liver disease, stroke, heart attacks, and cancer. Fix your mitochondria and so many things in your life should improve.
@@jlippin123 Please.... getting old is normal and your body "wears" out with age ok? We don't have 700 years old yodas around doing races.
@@monstro8171 I hear you. It sucks getting old. And when we get old who wants to race? Not me. But I like to know that I can still go fast when I want to. It's true that the body wears out over time. But just like a car if well maintained it will not wear out quickly. Most people as they age do not do a good job of maintaining themselves. And the mitochondria are the first things to go. And they affect everything else. The one thing you cannot fix as you age is how fast you will recover after a stressful workout. But you can fix your mitochondria.
"Raise the roof" is the highlight of the interview. Great stuff.
I agree. This is where periodization comes in. If we’re only talking about Z2, for example, you need to systematically increase volume. You can’t just motor at Z2 at the same rate every week because you will have hit the roof. To raise it, you need to expand your Z2 volume. One of the most important aspects of cycling is that you can do way more TIME at Z2 than, for example, running. Everyone talks about time-crunched training but unfortunately in order to “raise the roof” at some point you need to increase your volume. You will quickly reach a plateau and stay there.
Did he really say zone 2 is "overrated" ? Because i listened to all of that and he definitely didn't say its overrated... All he does is keep referring back to "tour de france sprinters" and true "track sprinters" Basically the top 0.01% and DOES not apply to 99.9% of age groupers, weekend warriors etc. But hey, whatever gets the clicks. And i am pretty sure NO training program prescribes ONLY zone 2 training?
Excellent, interview
Great Vídeo! Alexander Bu is the scientist
Yes! I want more longer videos.
12:17 -- "there's a day after tomorrow", "consistency", I think this is such a key message.
I think put simply ‘specificity’ is king. Closer to the race or shorter distances don’t worry about Zone 2. The use of Zone 2 should be used to increase volume allowing you to not be mentally fatigue and reduce the strain to your body, once you are comfortable with the volume add high intensity.
So basically he’s saying that 100% zone 2 will limit development and that a balance is required, like 80:20 ratio of low to high intensity. Which is literally what everyone says.
Super interesting video - especially just having started cycling a short while ago this was eye opening. It would be great if you can maybe make one absolute beginner video.
For example my watch (Suunto) talks about TSS, EPOC and PTE as well as hear rates. I also know already I have to switch up my trainings between Intervalls as well as longer and recovery rides.
However all the three metrics are all over the place with the 3 workouts. Intervall has high EPOC &PTE but low TSS for longer rides it’s the other way around.
Or my heart zone during intervals average is zone 3/4 for 30min vs for longer rides for me this is 90 minutes and 50km it’s only zone 1. After both I am completely exhausted though.
Looking online at Reddit for help turns out to bring a wide range of answers/optimal training tips and guidelines. In addition other metrics such as watt/kg and FTP are thrown in as well, making it overwhelming for a beginner.
Hence would love one video very basic for how to get started and advice on basic metrics (TSS, EPOC, PTE, heart zones, FTP etc). Just wanna stay safe and healthy, making some progress without any shirt or longterm risks
I must say that zone 2 definitely works because I focused on it almost exclusively during the off season and now even 30 lbs heavier I’m breaking PR’s this year without even trying. Lol
30lb heavier, maybe your new performance is related to that in some way? More calories.
@@ninjaxd9050 I’m not sure but even my uphill times are on par or better and I’ve only barely begun putting in the road miles this year. It’s quite shocking actually.
It will be interesting to see what may be lost in performance as the weight starts shedding if the wrong weight is lost. Lol
@@neoneherefrom5836 It all depends on how healthy you mitochondria are. If they were really sick when you started, then Zone 2 will make a big difference in your performance. If they were healthy at the outset, then not so much.
@@jlippin123 I can tell you that I always put intensity above duration so I’d be willing to bet my mitochondria were begging for attention lmao
@@neoneherefrom5836 The way to see if your mitochondria are inflexible (unhealthy) is to have a high carb meal not too much before you start a 4 or 5 hour Zone 2 bike ride. Could you make it through the entire ride without eating anything while not feeling ravenous? If not, then your body was unable to tap on stored body fat for energy. Classic case of dysfunctional mitochondria.
Typically the longer the ride then the lower the intensity. Most weekend warrior cyclists I know love cafe stops along the way on their Saturday morning rides. I think they think it's a social thing that they must have a cafe stop (convenience store stop). But in reality it's an addiction thing. They have dysfunctional mitochondria and after riding 30 or 35 miles they have run out of glycogen/sugar to burn for energy. But there is too much insulin in their blood and thus they cannot burn stored body fat for energy. So they feel like they are starving. They need a fix of sugar. They go to the candy aisle or pastry aisle at the convenience store and load up on sugar to get them back to their cars or home.
A really useful video. I think some times the but that gets missed is that z2 is needed for an aerobic base. I encounter people who jump straight for the high intensity, without building a base. Suprise, suprise a great ride will need lots of performance at different power out puts, they all need training
I couldn’t care less what zone I’m in during a ride. Just the fact that I’m out there exercising and enjoying nature is a win for me.
Good luck with your zones 😉
I absolutely love the point @ 15:00 so clear.
Thanks for just letting the guy talk. Huberman or Attia would’ve interrupted the him 12 times in the first 3 minutes.
Get him on the show more. He’s awesome to listen to and learn from.
This was great!
I have started out doing mostly zone 2 to get my bike time up and endurance up and recently started doing 1-2 hour long interval sessions indoors using the GCN training videos and pushing into zone 4-5 and have seen a huge increase in my distance in performance!
It depends on your goals. He's training people to win the most competitive professional racers. For that group, training zone 2 only isn't going to cut it. He's trying his clients to excel at the limits of performance! So his clients need to train at much higher levels effort to build their VO2max.
That's an interesting point! For must of us it's just about getting consistency. What did you make of Olav's points around 68 hours? Sweet spot might be the training best fitting for most people.
@@gcn 6 -8 h SS is harder than it sounds. You would have to build up to it in steps.
When I was a kid in my teens and took up the sport of bicycle racing I would do 900 miles of Zone 2 training on a fixed gear track bike to "get fit" so I could train to win for the rest of the season. Usually this riding was done in late February and early March. But after two years of racing my fitness never dropped enough over the winters to justify doing the Zone 2 training any longer. The coach being interviewed in this video is coaching athletes that never let their fitness level drop to a point where Zone 2 is needed any longer. They need recover rides. Sure. But recovery rides are not training. So they are not Zone 2.
@@James-zu1ij That's especially true when you do it in a fasted state so maximum mitophagy takes place.
@@jlippin123where do you have evidence of mitophagy and fasted training? There is some evidence of fasting helping with mitophagy but I don't know of any benefits to fasted training.
Also...he literally talks about them(top of the sport) doing zone 2 riding.
I like that they matched the desk Si's Laptop is placed on with Olav's Background
I love Mark Beaumonts comment in the gcn endurance video and it also applies in the case of zones. "You don't have to go looking for endurance, it will find you" I think Nick Craig said something similar in his video about cycling over 50.
I still have training bible from 1990’s when I was racing. It’s all gone full circle, 80% of your training volume Z2, 20% 3/4, always end feeling you could go more. No Z5 in training sessions, race day is the max effort. Alternate training sessions and taper down to race day.
Olaf’s great information on what is limiting performance, it’s not the mitochondria efficiency but heart and lungs.
The Joe Friel one?
If you are trained to win, then race day is usually not your max effort unless you are participating in a time trial against the clock. It's when you do those Zone 5 training sessions that you are maxing out.
@@Bob_Shy_132 obviously paraphrasing the entire book into one paragraph isn’t quite all he said but a general gist. 😁
@@jlippin123 paraphrasing Joe Friel, he has trained the odd winner or two in his time. 😁
Sounds a lot like Jack Daniels' (running coach, not liquor) bible. Stairstep training load for ~6week periods, using fitness test (best is a time trial race) following the 6-week constant load period (with pre-race taper for a few days) as indicator of what the new training load should be. Try to stay in the sweet spot of enough new training impulse to give a significant adaptation, but not enough that you burn out or get injured (injury being a much bigger concern for runners). Hard workouts straddled on either side of your target race duration (e.g. FTP duration vs. VO2max duration) to alternately "raise the ceiling" and "lift the base," converging closer to race duration as the event nears.
Great video, makes sense.
Great material GCN, you just burried Inego thesis. This guy is the real deal.
Another solid interview from Si.
He's getting good at these 👌
I'm a fan of not listening to "experts". They just seem to follow whatever is popular this week. Just ride - be happy.
The moment a popular idea, which in itself is good, becomes too popular and is embraced like a cult, it is a good thing having balanced opinions like Olav Aleksander Bu coming in to cool down things. Great interview.