Land Rover’s Ingenium Engine Failures 😳😳😳
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- Опубліковано 7 чер 2024
- I was feeling bad about the state of my old Volvo… but spending time in a Land Rover owners group made me feel a whole lot better about my car. #landrover #fail
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I work on these 6 days a week, the entire JLR range, with these engines in them, I rebuild the engines daily, and know all the fail points, have dealt with numerous warranty companies who reject each and every claim. Its just too expensive for them to pay out for every ingenium failure.
In regards to the common failures ,the main reason for losing coolant , without any visible signs of a leak is because the intercooler is water cooled and the internal waterway fractures just enough to start leaking into the intake system, but not enough to cause any damage with a water going into the inlet side of the engine., very common trivial issue.
Cylinder bore wear, due to the "piston cooling jet" failing, it stops supplying oil to the underside of the pistons and cylinder walls, causing pistons and cylinder bores to be running dry with no oil, causing wear and then blow by.
timing chains stretching, snapping, common. EGR cooler filter blocking up, DPF crack internally, check for any soot in exhaust tailpipes , they should be spotless, general turbo failure, extremely common issue, due to suggested service intervals and the stupidly poor location of them when designed.
I could go on and on. If you are an ingenium owner, I feel for you, I really do, but im being kept extremely busy with them, usual price for a total single turbo ingenium to be bare block rebuilt with new cylinder liners, and all parts upgraded between £7.5k to £9k depending on customer. completed within less than 10 days. Total engine swaps, 2 day turn around.
By the way, I drive a VOLVO with over 300k on the clock.
Sadly now Volvo are owned by the Chinese
A lot of that sounds like poor oil change maintenance intervals....
@@khalidacosta7133 The bore wear issue does yes but the intercooler/coolant loss issue has nothing to do with the oil change interval, it's just crappy quality. If the intercooler is inside the manifold there is no good reason for it to fail. It should last for decades, same as the heater matrix does.
Do you work for a dealer or indie? Warranty companies are denying customers literally because the failures are too common/too expensive?
You didn't say how much for total engine swaps, 2 day turn around
What to do with a seven year old LandRover that needs a new engine? Park it next to an EV in an airport car park.
As we now know, the Luton airport fire was started by the diesel Range Rover.
The LandRover would still get the blame when they burnt to the ground.
@@stephenbirchall941 Diesel Hybrid Range Rover*
Anddddd Wait🤣
😀😀😀
"Landfill Rover"
The fuel pipe on top of my diesel tank exploded yesterday on my 2011 Audi a6 I took it to a garage and. They said they needed to drop the rear subframe and take the fuel tank out of the car to fix it. Labour would be £50 per hour for an estimated min 6 hours. I went to the motor factors bought a meter of fuel pipe and 2 jubilee clamps for £10.23 and spent 2 hours working out how to reroute and fix this leak . The satisfaction of saving myself £300 plus vat plus parts made the fact that I was literally up to my armpit in diesel and will probably smell of it for the next week totally worth the effort. The satisfaction of fixing your own car is something that people these days just don’t seem to appreciate.
You should do ok if you go down the local truckers overnight stops and find the Lot Lizards....🤣🤮
Yes!!! Exactly this
VAG aren't good engineers.
@@johnwade1095
Worst manufacturers going.
@@davidgavin7280 maybe the modern stuff is crap . I’ve owned 4 pre 2012 diesel Audis and have literally had very few problems with all of them things do go wrong but nothing that has broke the bank. I had a 1.9 tdi a4 that I never spent anything on in 10 years of owning other than an engine temp sensor that cost £10 .
When i heard Victoria Beckham had some input into the design of the Land Rover Evoque i had no idea that included her designing the engine.
Maybe Victoria Beckham should branch out into engine design, and Land Rover should try singing. We might get better cars and better music that way.
The convertible evoque is just ghastly
@@crazyfroggie6546 It's almost as ugly as the Tesla Model X. Mind you, compared to the Cybertruck, it's positively beautiful.
Underrated comment 🤣👏
What's the problem? Victoria's input fulfills Land Rovers diversity requirements.
The timing of the introduction of the not-fit-for-purpose JLR products coincides with them getting rid of 'fuddy-duddy engineers' like me, being replaced by much 'cleverer' people - straight from Uni' ! I struggle to make the connection.
I was on the AJ200 engine programme.
👍👍
In every walk of life, I chucked the police force when I saw degree yieilding inspectors with 6 years service trying to tell me how to be a policeman with double the street service. You keep it pal, wallow in your incompetence, I went self employed and never answered to these dicks again.
The same in aerospace engineering..and there are no layby at 30000ft..
I totally agree
SO THATS WHERE MY NANS SHOWER CURTIAN WENT.......
Looks like my Grans Kitchen Lino 😊
Hehe! I actually quite like it…has a retro vibe ✌️
What about the bit of shag carpet over the back seat
@@davidbarnsley8486 ...she had some around the toilet thats gone AWOL, you wouldn't want that though, Grandads aims not up to much.....
Sick of how the mainstrem "motoring journalists" as they call themselves never report on any manufacturers faults or eff ups.
No journalist or news agency is independent nowadays.
They are all paid off by corporations.
They are being paid by the industry...😉🙄
They are the customers, of course they aren't publicly knocking them!
The readers/viewers/listeners are thr target. It's just marketing with vestigial journalism.
Because if they did report these faults they would never get another JLR press fleet to road test.
Same for the celebrity TV doctors that peddled the covid jab! Then we found out astra zenica paid them all £1,000s through a bogus publicity agency!
I had to laugh when I pressed play on this video, I got an ad for Land Rover playing.
Quintoon = Electric Vanker
They need to stop paying the finance, then they'll find out who actually owns the car.
Finance in the UK is simpler. The company own the vehicle until the final payment has been made. Until then, they are on the hook. Reference - Section 75, Consumer Credit Act 1974, as amended. Whatever you do, do not skip payments. Instead, insist the car is NOT fit for purpose and has a manufacturing fault. Do not stop paying. Invest in a legal consultation and your rights will be explained together with possible your possible routes. That will be money well spent.
@@Trevor_Austin Technically the right thing to do, yes. But, serious question - How long should customers continue to make payments on a car they can't use which is clearly faulty, through no fault of their own, if both manufacturer and warranty provider refuse to help?
Seeing as this looks to be a common and well known problem with JLR I expect customers in the end would win in any legal battle in terms of proving the vehicle is defective and not of satisfactory quality. But that can take months, sometimes years. And people need to be able to get to work etc...
It might not be "correct" but I totally understand anyone who just stops paying...I mean what can the finance company do other than take back the heap of junk that is no use to anyone..?
Modern cars are actually designed to fail. Modern manufacturers could do the right thing, the sensible thing and manufacture 500,000 mile engines with ease. Current manufacturing process are stupid and blows the "save the planet" arguement straight out of the water. Less manufacturing less pollution (less profit). All those engine parts that used to be metal have been replaced with cheap plastics which have a very short expiry date.
I'm sad to say that companies like TVR showed us that using cheaper options never works. Why are cars so unreliable?
Because they're purposely made that way, just like washing machines etc etc etc.
"Modern cars are actually designed to fail."
- This is a lie.
I know as I have worked for three different car companies as a development engineer.
"Modern manufacturers could do the right thing, the sensible thing and manufacture 500,000 mile engines with ease."
- Yes, they could but no one would buy it as it would be 2-3 times more expensive than every other car on sale.
"Current manufacturing process are stupid and blows the "save the planet" arguement straight out of the water."
- Eh ?
"Less manufacturing less pollution (less profit)."
- Like I said, no one would buy a car that was designed, tested and built to last 500,000 miles.
"All those engine parts that used to be metal have been replaced with cheap plastics which have a very short expiry date."
- In a small number of instances, this is true (e.g. plastic timing chain tensioners, plastic thermostat housings) and was something I used to bang on about when I was on a number of engine development programmes, however, you probably forgot, or never knew, that cars made in the 1970s-1980s or so had a life of around 8-10 years at best. They would be rotten after 5 years or so and the engines would be burning oil and/or have a very rattly top end.
As I've stated, I've been in hundreds of design review meetings where we have discussed design, fatigue, wear etc and at no point was failure ever deisgn-in.
It's always cost-driven, which is essentially driven by the customer.
@@lewis72 I have a BMW built/registered in 1975 , a Ford built/registered in 1976 and a Chevrolet built/registered in 1984 , so the youngest of my 3 vehicles is 40 years old.......I don't care if you are a development engineer , I wouldn't drive a vehicle built in the last 5 years if you gave it to me for free AND paid all of the running costs . modern cars are rubbish and constantly producing more vehicles is destroying the planet
Toyota 1UZ says hold my proverbial beer
@@lewis72 see my comment up there 👆🏼
Basically only people who have very basic engine knowledge can keep cars running long term. It seems JLR product buyers know sod all and just expect them to run forever. A great example are the ones who buy new diesels and just use them for school and shop runs then wonder why they’re having DPF, EGR and injector problems.
They get choked up
The chain tensioner on Landover 2.2 engines are made of plastic when they brake the plastic finds it's way into the oil pan and blocks the oil pump .
Causing the engine to fail.. this should be fixed by jaguar land rover for free they have known about this issue for years.
The 2.2 diesel engines have a timing belt (rather than a chain), is the tensioner on these plastic?
I'm not sure which is worse. The range anxiety of owning an EV or the next breakdown anxiety of owning a JLR vee hicle.
My son has had no end of people knocking on his door asking if he wants to sell the old jeep that I gave him. Still a great drive when I borrow it. There’s a sign on it now, not for sale ❤
Or, how about having BOTH at the same time in the same vehicle! (Apparently deposits for the new fully EV Range Rover are stacking up well)
A fool and his money... 😆
Sadly Land Rover have become a fashion accessory for the wealthy. There used to be a time they were designed to go off road or do hard work.
God help those who buy them when they go fully electric as the can't get the electrics right either especially when you look the amount of recalls they have had for flammable i-paces.
Come to think of it I haven't seen a I-pace in my neck of the woods for ages. And i live near the factory where they are purchased as staff cars.
The 5 year old defender with 55,000 km in Australia. That is a vehicle that is
'Not fit for purpose'
This case needs someone to go them in court.
BMWs are the same, Car has FSH and yet failed rear air suspension, failed radar for adaptive cruise control, leaking headlights, and more… Car has done 46k miles and is 8 years old. These fixes are across the last 4 years. Apparently the headlights are designed to leak at 8 to 9 years old. That alone cost £3000…. Buy Japanese cars.
Mitsubishi, Isuzu, not so great.
I think all cars are a gamble, but Japanese tends to be the least risky for a few decades now.
Complex cars with complex features have more to go wrong. A Lexus will have more parts and more expensive parts that a Dacia... but how often will either need parts? Does that change at the 5, 10 and 15+ year marks.
@@joytotheworld9109hands down Honda is the best make i've worked for except the fk6 1.0 turbo which is wetbelt engine and the 2016 hrv made in Mexico which was badly put together but all the other models are fine.
Its mainly just servicing with Honda not much else and Toyotas the same.
Or buy a late '90s BMW if you can find a rust free one
@@joytotheworld9109my Father in Law in Texas has had a Lexus suv since 2005. Not a single problem even in that heat. When it was 14 year old the soft touch dashboard top near the windscreen split a little due to the long term extreme heat.
My father in law took it in for his weekly free car wash at lexus and when they saw the small split, they offered to replace it free of charge on a 14 year old car. Now that is quality and service.
Yes and why put the bloody timing chain behind the flywheel wrong end of the engine the engine management light comes on say the camshaft sensor at fault but it not its the timing chain stretched so you have to take the subframe gearbox flywheel off before the you can even start the timing chain bloody muppet engineers
VW did that on the VR6 engines, the double row chains on the 2.8 only lasted 100K!
In the Sharan and the Ford galaxy it all had to come out from the bottom to fix it! Most were scrapped!
There's less torsional noise at that end so the engine is quieter, but if you get the chain wrong it's a disaster.
Camchains should last 400k miles with clean oil
I was thinking of buying a range rover and fitting it wit a decent engine audi or?????
@@movenis66 lol.
Those muppet engineers are there to comply with the diversity inclusion equity requirements.
Who came up with those requirements? forbids the mention.
The ingenium engine has a host of problems. I feel sorry for anyone who has been left with a heavy financial burden, unable to afford to fix a car that they are still paying off. I have some how to videos on rebuilding a 2.0 ingenium diesel engine on my channel. Hope they can help someone.
I know you've heard it all before , but here in OZ , i'm driving a 2006 , 6 cylinder Ford Falcon station wagon with 436,000 kilometres on the clock . In the last 130,000 kms it has had 2 front lower balljoints , a set of brake pads on the rear and 2 sets on the front and an oil service every 15,000 kms . It returns 9.4 ltres per 100 kms the equivalent of roughly 28.5 mpg .
Those running costs equate to around $1,000 for parts roughly 500 quid , plus fuel . Fuel averaged out over 9 years equals $13,000 , or 6,000 quid . The car was $1500 when i got it . 700 quid .
If you have a car for a long spell , the costs are basically irrelevant . The old shitbox still drives well and is extremely comfortable . I used to run a workshop in town and the number of imported pommy shitboxes that came to town and expired a few years later were numerous .
Well said...same as my Holden Ecotec V6, I only have 360,000 km and still fine...It is called maintenance and good design. The Falcon in-line 6, one of the best engines in the world and quick.
The barra engines are pretty much bulletproof, not surprised. Only thing about old fords is they rust away quickly and have suspension issues
I don't understand why people who buy Land Rover complain when the engine fails ect when you know full well they have problems like this and more
Wait till the turbo eat themselves..
Because the Ford Ecoboost and Pug 1.2 engine with the wet belt are less reliable than the Ingenium.
As are the 2.0 Merc diesels that suffer with bottom end issues
Let’s not forget all the 2.0 diesel BMWs that have chain failure
But let’s attack the only UK Brand left.
@@bigjmlIndian like your prime minister
There's a lot of consumer behaviour which I find difficult to understand.
They are beautiful things to behold - especially the interiors. Most are exported which may explain why so many are stolen, cut up and.placed in shipping containers to provide an alternative 'aftersales' channel
Make sure you’re subscribed and hit the thumbs up and leave a comment… it seems we have upset someone, look at the viewing stats lately 😂
Ive checked im tickety boo subscribed etc ❤😊
Subscribed and thumbs up Geoff.
Could it be 'cos you had a bit of a break and the algorithm has fallen out with you...? 🤔
@@metannica1could be that or because I said something about Kate…
😂😂😂@@GeoffBuysCars
My 2004 lexus GX470 4x4 has 400k on the clock and has barely needed more than service items......
Brother in law bought a 10 year old Lexus saloon and every single thing worked as it should.
The Japanese do things properly.
My last four cars Toyota. Never a single fault. Next car Lexus RC300h
v8? that's a ton of money in petrol/gas!
Worked in the Motor Trade for years, its the only manufacturer were I've seen 6 engines being replaced a week! Not saying where I currently work of course ;)))
That's what happens when you make engines without dipsticks.
I believe the dipsticks appear behind the steering wheel. No ?
No, that's what happens when dipsticks make engines🙂
they have dipsticks, which can be put in back to front, believe it or not
@@Rubberdinghyrapids Is that legal?
or dipsticks who show off and buy JLR
My profile picture is my 2000 Jeep Cherokee XJ. It’s now 24 years old, has 240,000 miles on the clock and is still chugging along nicely returning nearly 40mpg on a run. It has the so say ‘unreliable’ VM old school diesel engine. Apart from a couple of water pumps, an alternator and a fuel injector it’s been superb. Took me to Greece and back twice. Comfortable and looks cool too. I have no intention of selling it and will keep it going as long as possible.
Don't leave it out in the cold!
Left my VM-engined Range Rover parked up in -15 to -20°C nightly temperatures for a week in Austria, back in 1995;
blew the engine up in Belgium on the way back.
VM engines are brilliant for motorboats;
not so good for road-going vehicles,
but great to hear yours is performing so heroically.
Those cars are very cool. I want one!
Love those Jeeps! 🤗
My 4.0 jeep xj is the most loyal vehicle I have ever owned. I could not be without it.
@@Jack-tx2ve yup-that straight six engine is a gem. I had it in a Grand Cherokee ZJ Orvis I sold last year. Wonderful thing.
Most JLR engine failures are directly related to oil dilution issues. It's imperative to change the oil every 5000 miles. Diesel contaminates the oil, the engine is lubricating itself with a mixture of oil and diesel, the bottom end gets shredded and cylinder bores get washed to destruction hence bad compression. The JLR oil change schedule should be ignored.
Agreed - this applies to a lot of other car manufacturers too. Oil change intervals are dreamed up by the marketing dept and validated by the engineers to get the engine through the warranty.
This is bang on
@@jimb7406 Makes them appear to be cheaper to run to fleet buyers and PCP customers. And it is.....over the short term! A false economy if ever there was such a thing.
I work at a vehicle assessors agency... Boss says (who has 50 years experience in the motor trade) that basically the EU directive is that all new cars must make 100'000 KM... 62'000 miles, that's been going on for a few years now. Jaguar, Land Rover and the wet belt engines, Ford, Vauxhall, Peugeot and Citroen etc, are our bread and butter.
Do you mean they are designed to fail after 62,000 miles?
@@hayno7066 it certainly would seem that way.
@@850r2Exactly Ulez and the like had her introduced.
All the 90's stuff is modern enough to be clean, easy to fix at home and generally will easily do over 100k.
Reduce the used car stock simply pushes prices up of new and old, as we are seeing now.
My citroen xsara Picasso 1.6 diesel .. 228 thousand miles on clock, drives like new... And I paid £100 for it.... 8 years ago (egr fault).... Really good engine /car (old mechanic) 😊🇬🇧
@@user-bz9cb8bp2y the old HDI engines... Back when Diesels were designed for longevity and not choked by DPF's
I work on these things, and on average, we'll do one engine a month. Not to mention the repairs that need to be done to them.
This is the reason l left Land Rover after 25 years of ownership. The 2L and the v6 diesel engines are a lottery, plus all the other issues.
My 1998 Honda Accord ESI coupe, goes on and on ! I can’t bring myself to sell it ! Just INCREDIBLE 👍👍
Some 7 years ago, my friend wanted to replace his Toyota with a Land Rover Discovery. I strongly advised him NOT to and find something else.
He said amongst other things:
- If a vehicle cannot do the job, the fact that it is reliable makes it irrelevant.
I said:
* If the car doesn't run due to multiple issues, that is not doing its job.
* Having kids and breakdowns on the roadside exposing them to risks isn't right.
He made other excuses and still determined to buy a Discovery. I've done my good deed but some people can't be helped. He hasn't spoken to me since, which I assume he has bought the Discovery and too embarrassed to talk to me now as I'll grill him with every issues he had and the cost to put them right.
Discovery........waiting for owners to discover what piles of crap they are!
@@Tunners26 So true! And it's not like I just dismissed it, as an ex-mechanic, I've explained in details technically my reasons behind but he was so determined to get the Disco. Historically he had Toyotas so he thinks all cars are like that which obviously isn't the case in reality which he will discover soon if not already.
Ignore all warning lights, they are just for granny, mine has looked like a christmas tree for years, nothing happens because nothing is wrong. Granny takes the car in to say this light is on, they put it out and charge her £400 having done nothing!
That works until you have to get the car MOT'd. They updated the test a few years ago to automatically fail any vehicle with warning lights on the dash, even if the vehicle is clearly safe to drive 😣
@@soundseeker63 mine has been through the mot many times with lights on, it's nothing to do with the test, but, dealers would tell you different, they are full of shit
@@Enl1thened1 I've never taken any of my cars to stealerships for servicing or MOT. But what I said is true. Anything to do with warnings like EML, ABS, airbags/SRS etc. is SUPPOSED to be a fail. Some may turn a blind eye to it as they do to things like gutted DPFs, blanked EGRs, illegal numberplate formats/styles etc. It IS still fail criteria and they SHOULD fail it. If found to be ignoring this they could end up losing their DVSA licence to provice MOT certificates and possible fines. Likewise if your car was found to be unroadworthy following an accident you could be liable, insurance payout refused, so please be aware doing this carries risks.
@@soundseeker63 We discussed this, none of the dash lights were mot failures, it depends on your model, the newer cars may fail as all new car owners are being ripped off because there's more of them, by design! and designed to fail regulally, never buy a vehicle after 2015 models
@@Enl1thened1 lol this isn't a discussion, I am telling you some facts. And no the make/model/age of car does not matter. They are MOT failures! End of story.
It seems that the implied prestige of driving one of these is about £15k plus all the inconvenience.
Why do you think the UN swopped all there Land Rovers for Toyotas.?
Swapped. And their. Jesus
And Land Rovers were much better back then.
@@Holloweve exactly
@@Hollowevebut you still knew what he meant I assume.🥱🙈
As the UN are corrupted I suspect many brown envelopes full of Japanese yen exchanged hands 😊
It took Honda 80 hours per Discovery to make it acceptable to be badged as a Honda, and that's post production.
If Landrover put a fraction of the time in, both in design and on the line, they'd be World beaters.
I believe it is down to the programming of the DPF cleaning cycle. It puts so much extra diesel in to try and raise the temperature of the exhaust that unburnt diesel goes past the piston cylinders and contaminates the engine oil. Contaminated oil is never good for any aged engine, and causes vastly increased wear, compression issues, timing belt wear,, etc etc.
You are spot on
Here here my iveco dpf removed mapped out 10-40 Castrol 396k purrs like a kitten
Throw in 2 year 24kmile service intervals and you have very busy and very profitable workshops.
I had a car with dpf, deleted it and funny enough still passed the emissions, it's a con
@@peterryecroft5144 I believe that the Ingenium engines monitor (to a degree) the oil quality, so the service intervals can be as low as 8,000 miles. I had a 3 door Gen1 Evoque (ended up rolling it!) and did consider a newer version, but decided against it after a little investigation into the horror stories that people were posting within the first 2 years of ownership.
THE Americans used to have a saying I believe, "There's no replacement for cubes" Squeezing undersized engines for every ounce of power never works well.
Yes, as others have said in the comments, 2.0 litres just doesn’t seem enough for vehicles this size and weight
Colin Chapman engineer in tightness
Make the car smaller and lighter ,also in the UK the vast majority of journeys are 4 miles each way
Ergo the obesity crisis
A small engine warms up quicker and is more efficient
W.O. Bentley said: " There's no replacement for displacement".
I think it's that in combination with the complexity and restriction of all the modern emissions control equipment it has to carry, combined with the drive to make everything as light as possible thats the real killer.
You CAN make a heavily boosted small 4-cyl reliable if you build it solid - Cast iron block, fully forged internals, large lubrication channels and jets etc. But modern engines simply aren't built that way anymore - Everything is pared back to be as lightweight as possible, to the point that strength and durability are now suffering significantly. Add in those other two factors and the outcome is almost guaranteed failure.
Firstly not all JLR cars are rubbish, I’m currently running a 280k 18 year old discovery 3 with no issues and is one of the best built cars I’ve ever worked on and a 2012 Range Rover with no issues either. These cars are great if you do regular maintenance and don’t follow JLRs maintenance schedule. I think my RR has 24k service schedules which is madness, I do them on 6-10k
Most of these stories are probably from non car enthusiasts who take their car to the garage for everything including changing a bulb.
That said, I personally would not buy or own the 3.0 SDV6 from Land Rover. It’s had a weak point for years and JL.r never addressed it. Do your research people and try to buy the engines that keep going. The 2.7 Ford lion or 4.4TDV8 are solid.
JLR state 24k maintenance service...that is proof they are crooks.
I'd never buy a car from a maker who ignored chronic serious issues.
@@desobrien3827 a lot of manufacturers do this, nothing special about JLR there. My mk8 golf is 30k service.
@@G-ra-ha-m that’s virtually every car maker. Kia left recalls late, Tesla forced to recall, Toyota for into recalls after fatally. Car manufacturers weigh up the cost of recall or re-engineering vs bad press and low sales. Regardless of the sissy’s with 3.0 engine crankshafts these things sold like hot cakes. People want a luxury 4x4 and are willing to take the risk.
@@eoghanfla6343 Regardless of other makers, it appears JLR never attempted to build a reliable engine, as any testing quickly shows the flaws.
equity has arrived in the car market we need to make ice cars shit to allow the new coal powered ones to look slightly better.
Tired engine ffs. what utter bollox. I know someone with a 50 year old 911 who drives it regularly to Europe and back, he's had it 40 years. the dealer will tart that "tired " engine up and put it on forecourt and resell for some ridiculous price, probably with a wankerwise warranty that won't pay out.
Your right Geoff. Stick with the older cars. A half decent garage should be able to sort out the pulling to the left issue for not a lot of money and if it were to need a new engine, I'm sure it wouldn't cost circa £25,000. I had a 1992 Ford Sierra, petrol 1600 high mileage and had no issues with it. I have had number of Skoda diesels also with no issues. Loved them all. I wish the manufacturers would simply produce cars that performed adequately for what we want and the bonus to me would be a car that didn't require a trained monkey with an I'pad to diagnose the slightest fault. Better still if I could fix it myself. Like I used to. Why must they introduce new technology all the time when they have already produced successful examples that we could keep on the road for decades without breaking the bank.
I do feel sorry for anyone who baught a Land rover.
The advantage of an older car is also that if the engine or gearbox gives up the ghost, you can get a used replacement for a few hundreds pounds or so.
That said, rust repairs can run into thousands.
We have an XF Diesel, done 197,000 miles as a taxi, never spent a penny on it except for servicing when required, these people who say they have problems never had the bonnet up & never had them serviced imo
Hang on, second letter, if they have had the car less than 12 months which having a warranty would suggest then the sale of goods act would apply. Having no joy from the dealer then reject the car to the finance company, that's why you pay the premium for a dealer and to get finance for the added legal protection.
The ingenium 2.0 diesel engine has known timing chain problems more so on earlier vehicles up until around 2019 MY. Likely to save a few £ and make even more profit JLR made the chain out of cheese 🧀 which combined with recommending two year service interval or 21000 miles between oil changes 🤔 is a recipe for disaster. Combined further with thick drivers that can’t hear a rattling noise on startup and just keep driving it until it fails I have no sympathy DUH. I believe the VW Audi V6 diesel has similar problems, thanks Geoff great rant as always 👍
Same thing just happened to my however I did hear the noise and the said it had a stretched timing chain, fortunately extended warranty paid out I'm hoping that the updated chain will solve the issue 2018 with 39k on the clock
A man on the internet who bought a new RRover with the ingenium engine it had only 30000 miles on it before it went pop. Our local small garage who mainly buys sells, repairs, and scraps RRovers. Said about the 2litre if it gets past 50000 miles your doing well he said that 2 years ago. On UA-cam an American bought at auction a 4 cylinder petrol RRoyce engine still in a crate never opened, he paid scrap money for it, he opened the crate took the sump off cleaned inside, put new spark plugs in, and oil fitted a Ford carb. He found a tag that said it was built in 1952 he connected a petrol supply to it and a battery first turn of the key it started and ran smooth and quite. I believe it was normally fitted to the Austin Champ .
yes there is a vid of the engine on youtube they dont make like that anymore
This same thing was happening to late , 90s early 2000s Discovery models as well - needing new engine at 60k - loads of em.
2.0 petrols are pretty solid. Regardless of power output.
The 2.2 diesel predecessor was a great engine.
What these people need to do is contact a law firm and start up a class action lawsuit against JLR
JLR, just know the people that buy their vehicles can afford to pay anything to fix their vehicles because their customers can afford to buy a new one in the first place. Who the heck is the CEO of JLR now 'Arthur Daley' 😂
This is a lie.
No, the vast majority are on finance or leased
Land Rover seems to have taken a leaf out the BMW book of customer service. I had an F10 535D M Sport with 50k miles on the clock when I bought it approved used from a main dealer. 7k miles in the engine blew up, and they replaced it under warranty. But, only because the car was with them every other month since I bought it and they spent more on courtesy cars than the car was actually worth. They lied to me at every opportunity, and I will never buy a BMW product ever again.
Thats sad to hear because old BMWs were brilliant! The naturally aspirated 6-cyls would go on and on! I'm on my 6th and never had any major mechanical issues. Just little electronics things and a few plastic bits that break with age but engines themseleves... unstoppable! Seems that era of German engineerin is over.
@soundseeker63 things go wrong and that's fine. But, it's how they dealt with it that let the whole thing down: passing the buck, making excuses, promises not kept, treating me as the problem rather than the product, and downright lying.
@@albundy5992 yeah! Intersting bcuz here in the U.S. Bmw had been the only euro maker here who tended to treat customers well. Things have degraded here as well apparently, though probably the other two germans are still worse customer service wise.
They prey on the people who don't do their fluid checks. It works.
Geoff, did you mention CretinWilson?
What about Ford Ecoboost? What about Audi timing chains. What about a two year old Audi being written off because they couldn’t guarantee to get a replacement headlight within 2 YEARS!!! What about a 6 month wait for a Mercedes headlight that costs over a grand? What about BMW head gaskets? Why are you picking on poor old Land Rover when they are all at it??? Just wait until there are thousands of inlet valve failures on direct injection engines from ALL manufacturers that are just waiting to fail. All cars have problems and this silly game manufacturers play with ridiculously long service intervals is just causing more problems. 20,000 miles between oil changes with 0-20 oil???? No wonder engines fail!!
What we are finding is that manufacturing standards are falling asleep they try and cut costs. Ironically, EVs with less moving parts may prove more reliable.
Spot on. Look at all the engine bottom end failures with the new Toyota Tundras and others with the v6 petrol particularly in the US, where Toyota is rapidly destroying its previously hard won reputation. The rule for all manufacturers these days is take their recommended oil change intervals and halve them, and in the case of a diesel halve them again.
I was told, "long life oil Sir, will easily last for two years or 20,000 miles" a load of bollocks. I believe oil is like our blood, bad blood bad body, bad oil bad engine.
Didn’t know about the Audi one…!!
I think a class action against Ford in the USA might have woken them up
They are starting to cover them
Oddly a friend has one,never a problem, but he does long journeys and has the oil and filter changed more often
Whereas my lazy neighbour who drives half a mile to a pint of milk has had her engine roll over and die
They all went downhill after the series one lol
Realistically after the TDI 200 and 300 altough many liked the TD5 , after that just garbage.......
Everything before the late 1990's was OK then as soon as the Range Rover P38, Discovery 2 arrived it went to pot. The mk1 Freelander was OK until the K-series engine head gasket failed. The only one that was pretty dependable was the old Defender with hardly any gadgets or electrical equipment. Yes they leak but that's a built in chassis rust protection.
The trouble with the TD1 is you need to carry a mig welder in the back of the car to chase the rust around.
I had a 2014 evoque with the old 2.2 Ford engine, was a great car and put 80k miles on it, wouldn’t touch the ingenium engine though!
Earlier this year our Volvo V70 Estate (been in the family from new) wouldn’t start for the first time ever, needless to say I was absolutely disgusted with Volvo reliability. I spent an hour diagnosing the fault and replaced the fuel pump relay for £10. This Volvo is only 25 years old and has only covered 190K miles. I’m very concerned that it might break down again during the next 25 years, what should I do?
that car is a keeper
If that relay fails again can you swap it with the heated rear window one ?
Still dearly loving our Zeus geared timing sweet1994 Defender 90 300TDI - balance a 10p on the wing…
From what I have been told its mostly the ingenium engines pre 2020. I have seen 66 Plate F-Pace's needing new engines as well as 2017 SVR needing a new V8 engine (owner said he was quoted £17k for the engine)
The P250 is a good engine in my 2020 XE s it’s really a nice piece of engineering and sounds fantastic. The previous petrol engine was very poor so I’ve read.
Failed motors for no good reason could be returned en masse to JLR HQ at a specific date / time for a tea party.
I am surprised that there has not been a class action law suit against JLR for their not fit for purpose vehicles! All Petrol engines should be capable of 200k miles without breaking down, & Diesels good for 250k the same. The only caveat is they have a full service history!
My sister bought a Discovery Sport about 4 years ago. Full service history from the dealer. It was a 2018, 2.0d ingenium. I told her when she bought it the car would probably spend more time in the garage than on the road. Failures included, turbo, egr, air con compressor , something in the 4x4 system had to be changed (transfer box?) various electrical issues, a lot of which were cured with software upgrades. The infotainment system constantly froze which the dealer was never able to fix.
A lot of these faults occurred after the warranty had expired.
Last August after the gearbox decided to only intermittently select gears she got rid of it. Oh, and the last time i heard it start i suspect the timing chain was on the way out, very noisy on start up.
But the thing is, when the car worked it was fabulous, comfortable, practical, great presence, and on the odd long road trip was a great long distance cruiser.
So glad I watched this vid, just been looking at a LR Disco Sport 2ltr diesel! Guess what I won't be buying now?
Keep up the good work.
If you buy a car on finance they own the car until you have made the last payment.
If it is on HP once you have paid 50% they can't reposes it without a court order.
In the case of the Landrover, if they have reached that point i would stop the payments
until it is sorted out.
Never been so disappointed with a marque whose exterior design I so love who I would never buy because of their engine quality.
My 2009 Land cruiser 200 has a diesel V8 with 320,000 km (200,000 miles) and runs like a swiss watch. What's need most is faithful service and a Toyota badge...😎
Scary thing is people buying 6 and 7 year old Landrovers on finance, it’s an expensive way to look flash.
A 3 year old Jaguar XF with full JSH and after over £10K of warranty repairs went BANG 💥
Jaguar looked at it, said the engine including both turbo’s was toast and asked for £12+K to repair it.
I said ‘NO, you pay’ and they said, ‘go ahead, sue us’
I scrapped the car.
I literally dragged it to the scrap yard.
It was the last in a string of JLR cars and I’ve learnt,
Never, EVER, buy a JLR product.
That’s not true is it. If it is your a complete idiot
Send me an email let’s make a video about this
Will do 👍
The assumption by the AA was that the car’s DPF had failed causing diesel to flood the engine.
A common fault of the 2.7D XF due to the DPF being too far away from the manifold, therefore causing the DPF to not heat up and so clogging up.
Jaguar dealers talk about the fault but do not accept any liability.
B45tards
@@GeoffBuysCars LOL!!
That is unbelievable - having to scrap a 3 year old car due to engine failure. Do yourself a favour and get a Toyota or Lexus.
Jaguar Land Rover made this engine to make money. From a very reliable source
Know an ex landrover tech who told us the ingenium engine is produced for less than 400£ complete manufacturing cost and JLR have ALWAYS known about the failures even during very very early development stages but it's so cheap to produce they dgaf! We see so many with rattly chains, stretched chains, poor timing, injector faults, exhaust leaks, cracked manifolds, adblue system faults, engine failures.. it's absolutely mental that it's allowed to still be produced, JLR, Ford (Ecoboost) and PSA (pure tech shite) all need their asses kicking. Great vid none the less Geoff!
£400?!
And I believe the Govt. paid for a huge chunk of the cost of the new Wolverhampton plant. Gave RAF St Athan to Aston Martin too, which is owned by a Swiss consortium. Must look after the rich.
that cost for the engine is just not possible in todays prices the crank alone would cost more
I expect you meant for less than £4K which is still pretty cheap for a 2.0L turbo engine
Loved the content thanks Geoff❤
My local independent garage that looks after my 21 reg F-Pace tells me that Land Rovers have a much longer exhaust pipe between the turbo and the catalytic converter. Apparently this is much shorter on the Jag. This longer pipe contributes to cooler gasses in the cat, so when carrying out a regen on the cat the engine needs to over fuel even more, and this leads to the problems we are seeing.
This garage has looked after our family cars for over 30 years, so I have quite a lot of faith in them. Was their dads, but now run by his two sons and a great bunch of younger “spanners” who have been stripping engines since their teens.
Mine gets oil and filters every year (~15k miles), irrespective of what the “service engine” monitor thinks. The gearbox and transfer unit will be getting services and the fluids changed at around 50-60,000 miles. It’s not expensive at a local independent garage, but at the prices the Stealerships charge I can understand why people avoid even the simplest preventative maintance.
"Stealerships" ...
I love that so much
I'm stealing it
(no pun intended; oh, okay then, maybe a little bit)
😁😁😁
And would so, so love to know who & where that wonderful independent garage is
- they sound brilliant;
would drive a long way to get good service at a reasonable price
🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️
Actually it’s the DPF that was remote mounted on early Ingenium engine versions of transverse engine models of both Land Rover, Range Rover and Jaguar models. They sorted it with a major facelift that altered the front firewall/bulkhead to accommodate a cat and DPF unit bolted directly to the turbocharger exit port which preserved heat and allowed reliable regeneration which also eliminated lubricating oil dilution by diesel fuel.
Longitudinally mounted Ingenium engines, as found in your F-Pace and Velar plus larger RR and Defenders always had close mounted emission equipment because there was more room to the side of the engine bays. However, early Ingenium four and six cylinder engines do suffer from timing chain and guide failures as well as blocked EGR cooler filters to the side of their engine blocks. Basically JLR once again made a hash of their vehicles, quelle surprise!
This is an important comment - find a garage you trust - service your car in a sensible way. Simple.
@@ericdunn555 Brands Garage in Felixstowe Suffolk. I hope you are not too far away.
ive heard the gold volvo went for £3,800 , GEOFF , Ive had a good talk with myself and im keeping the E38 for ever thanks .
3,800? Who told you that? It was £5k 👍
@@GeoffBuysCars excellent some random guy in taunton posted it ,it was nice are you going to Gaydon 7/7 .big E38 meeting .
an ad pops up about a land rover just when you mentioned land rover
Thanks Geoff, I don't feel so bad about the occasional smoke from my 08 A6 which has just passed 250k miles 🤣
Similar issues with Ford wet belts and Peugeot use a similar wet System
I must have been lucky as I had my wet belt changed at 10 years
Yeah absolute shite.
If you had a battery EV, might that be *Eveready?*
Thanks Geoff, was wanting to look at a used Land Rover; this helps!!!!! ❤
Volvo fan here I have a C30 and a V70 from '10 and 08 , respectively. The cars are bulletproof. Was considering a LR Disco , but thank you for discouraging me now!. 😅
the wetbelt fords and peugeots are a nightmare
The eco boom engine ?
@@ridbanner1407 ive got a 2019 pug 2008 1.2 and belts just went at 65k
ford charge £2000.00 to change the cam belt and ancilleries
Land Rover and Range Rover owners never learn, do they?
🤣 My freelander is good it's 22 years old still going strong and no rot. It's been running on biodiesel for the last 2 years..
I nearly bought one. Before I did the deal I thought I’d join the owners forum to see what the owners thought. After 20 minutes I decided to buy something else.
I had £45,000 to buy a car in 2020 and the Evoque was very tempting; my boss had one and said it never had any problems. Thing is, his was a company car and, if there were problems, he wouldn't lose any sleep about it. After re reading the horror stories on line I couldn't persuade myself that 'it could never happen to me' and bought Audi. I am very glad I did.
@@kevinmoffatt yeah or a very used JLR for tiny money, assuming that's possible.
As if there was a Range Rover ad at the start of this video lmao 😂
My neighbour’s F pace engine went a week before the 3 year warranty ran out. New engine, new turbo. Think the total would have been around £18K according to the dealer. Imagine -less than 3 years old, full dealership service history and ( seeing as it’s on her drive for 95% of the day, probably less than 20k miles on it.
Insane isn’t it
A very lucky win on the lottery for her. You should rub her back for luck when you see her.
Headlining needs redoing, it's not straight. 😜
Yep, it's definitely pulling to the left 😛
I have petrol Jag with Ingenium 2.0t. Do they have issues ? I was told the diesels suffered not the petrol
And half way though the vid I get a advert for Land Rover !!! Yer right.
Why do people continue to buy Land Rovers when they have widely publicised problems? There are so many better car brands out there. 👍
Quite. JLR have been featuring at the bottom of reliability surveys for MANY years, but fools keep buying them and then finding their engine is done after a few years and not huge mileage. And JLR couldn't care less.
I agree with this. It’s reported enough online. It’s definitely the status symbol thing
Image
the roof lining looks awful 😢
It’s much better in real life than on camera!!😂
@@GeoffBuysCarslook at daily mail online 😮Kia to recall 463k cars over fear they could explode 😮
@@GeoffBuysCars Your car purchase documentation states that you are the registered keeper of your car although most people believe they are the owner of the vehicle. After the Agenda 21/30 Earth Summit event in 1992 held in Rio Brazil, everything changed for reasons that are available to anybody who takes the trouble to research this topic.
Glad you have covered this, I was a big landrover fan, I hate all new landrovers, will talk more when you see my tunnel 😂
What colour are you set now at the moment, I can’t seem to make it out?
This is the green Volvo 👍
BUY A TOYOTA!!
Hi
It is a great shame and embarrassment that the uk has gone from world leaders in manufacturing to a laughing stock
Seriously we are now just a rusty spot on the chromium plated arse of the world
Britan has been the laughing stock for 60+ years. BMC, Leyland, Rootes etc etc
that's making me happy with my 2004 mercedes eclass with an original chain in it, still going strong, it drifts to the left but I'll get it sorted 😂😂
The ingenium engine was recalled in some foreign markets due to local law / legislation, from memory South Korea was one of them
Kia recalls 463k cars over fear they could burst into flames 🔥 story daily mail online 😮
Think I did that one? I’ll check
@@GeoffBuysCars
Daily heil as usual gets it wrong
It's American Market SUVs ie big ugly fat vehicles for big ugly obese people
The wiring for the heated seats and seats motors is chafing under the 29 stone occupants and arcing out
JLR consistently make the most unreliable and poor quality vehicles available worldwide. They have great showroom and driver appeal and really go well for a short time, until they don’t and land you with a ridiculously large repair and bill to pay. These may seem to be somewhat affordable to a certain middle class demographic at first, on a short lease, but do not be deceived. They are only affordable to millionaires that have alternative transport, the patience of saints and who don’t mind burning their money away repairing poorly engineered crap.
2014 Hyundai ix35. 94,000 km. Drives beautifully, quite, comfortable, reasonably economical, never had anything go wrong with it apart from the rear hatch gas struts needed replacing last year. It's had one recall for a dodgy fuse box which took less than an hour to change. The only issue I have with it is some creaky plastic in the centre console and someting in the boot area rattles a bit (I think it's just the cargo cover). I fully expect to keep this car for at least another 10 years. Oh, and it's still on it's original Kumho tyres.
You should probably replace those...
@@soundseeker63 Nah. They are showing absolutely no signs of degradation. I'll probably replace them at 100k.
Haha first ad even before Geoff started was for Land Rover