Persona: The Velvet Room Explained
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- Опубліковано 8 лип 2024
- 00:00 It starts
00:43 What is the Velvet Room?
03:04 Who is Igor?
04:01 Victor/Devil Summoner
06:12 Evil Phone
07:00 Who is Philemon?
10:30 The Demon Painter
10:57 Velvet Room inspirations/Black Lodge
11:32 Belladonna
12:00 Nanashi/Nameless
12:35 Velvet Room's new rules, lore and what happened to the olds
16:10 Elizabeth
17:22 The Wildcard Ability
18:00 Theodore
18:18 Marge
18:44 Marie
19:44 Caroline & Justine
21:24 Morgana
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I wanted to talk about the velvet room because it’s got a storied history. I wanted to answer the question of what is it. In modern persona the answer is super literal:
"A that place exists between dream and reality, mind and matter. It is a room that only those who are bound by a "contract" may enter. It may be that such a fate awaits you in the near future.”
But that doesn’t actually explain it very much. That line has been pretty much said verbatim since persona 1 but a lot of things about the room itself is a mystery, why does it exist, how does it exist, who made it, what inspired it and who can enter the room.
Source: • Evolution of the Velve...
#persona #thevelvetroom #larrue #igor - Ігри
Fantastic video, I learned so much so quickly and Im so happy to learn we will see Igor in Persona 6, it wouldnt be the same without him
How Awesome of a video.
Oh so that's where you got that Igor/Victor connection from!
I literally love Igor, I anticipate him every time I play the game
Kinda obvious he will lol
@@dmclsl03his fate in the games has been largely unknown ever since the original Japanese voice actor for Igor passed away
Another thing to note: when welcoming people to the velvet room Igor usually says “the velvet room,” but in P5 when Yaldaboth welcomes you he says, “my velvet room,” to add on to the alarms going off in veteran players heads the different voice, the lightly different greeting, and the protagonist’s wardrobe change that “Igor” isn’t to be trusted
I hope they pick Elizabeth's story back up one day I've been invested on seeing where she goes and what she does for awhile with no even hints that she will be coming back to the series.
IMO, the infamous P3 Remake Rumors, if true, might be a Final Fantasy Remake situation where things might not end the way we expect it.
@@ThatBeingCedyeah, no. FFVII situation has nothing to do with P3, the devs have already said they are going to be faithful to the original game.
@@lemonov3031 Yeah, I agree. But 9 months ago we didn't know that :P
@@ThatBeingCed well, I corrected just in case
@@ThatBeingCedits definitely happening
there's a detail in Persona 2 where one of the residents of the room says he's been in there for [a large, specific number of] nights
I did the math on it and iirc it dates back to the late 18th century, counting from the game's release date? I couldn't think of what specifically would've happened in that year that would've drawn a man into the dream, but I've always wondered if it was meaningful
Probably a Frankenstein reference
Good video, didn't realize Lavenza's outfit was supposed to be a maid. Always thought her design was more a reference to Alice in Wonderland lol. Also very surprising that Igor is always going to be a constant in the series. tbh I thought either Philemon/an older attendant would come back or we'd get an entirely new caretaker of the velvet room altogether in future installments
Thank you kind stranger
No, Not a Maid. Not again.
I've heard a theory based off lore and dlc that the perona 5 velvet room was infact meant to be a jail however it was the protag that was supposed to be the keeper seving out justice and locking away the injust in the cells
It could also be Akechi’s as he had a persona given to him by Igor before the start of the game and since he’s a detective maybe it’s his jail for the phantom thieves or anyone else who stands against his justice or his goal
"It exists between dream and reality. Between mind and matter." So it's the Twilight Zone? I'm expecting Robert Sterling to be the next Velvet Room Attendant
It’s more like the Black Lodge from Twin Peaks.
Elizabeth is my absolute favourite character in the franchise
I'd love a Persona game where she's the protagonist and we learn more about the world where we pull Persona's from
She'd be the goofiest protagonist ever and I'm all for it
I would love to see Philemon, Belladonna, Nanashi, etc. to make a return one day.
21:22 i head canon jokers velvetroom as a cafe. He is staying at one and its calming
Love your videos Larrue, always informative and always a good time!
Amazing job
All shadows that take on human form (from what I recall) have yellow eyes. I assume that perhaps Igor and the other Velvet Room denizens may actually be shadows.
Teddie's eyes are blue 😘
@@SmearyBridgesmorgana too
Thank you for confirming the Twin Peaks thing. I always think it but am surprised newbies never bring it up!
Thanks heaps for the awesome video. It’s also ignited a passion in me to revisit the original Persona games, which I’ve been waiting for a reason to, so very much appreciated!
You playing P3 Reload? It's amazing
Definitely the best version of Persona 3 I’ve ever played! Too bad that there’s no signs of the developers including the female protagonist though.
I’m just passed floor 70 on Tartarus and have taken a break from the repetitive grinding, can’t believe how long it takes to level each Persona!
@@bobbytagget5511 right, I love FeMC, shes iconic and was so happy when they added her to Persona Q 2. She's so funny and I loved her again.
Definitely missed opportunities from devs to not add her, she's awesome.
Also, just like in the 2006 P3 PS2, it's brutal with the grindinh.
Wow I'm now motivated to play through P3P now that I know the female protagonist has quite a sennse of humour :) Thanks@@ICgay4!
10:00 Nyarly Jumpscare
I loved the old Velvet Room dwellers such as Belladonna and Nameless. I actualy find them more intriguing than Igor. I would love to know about their backstories if there were any.
Fantastic video as usual
I swear they say somewhere that Philemon created Igor from a doll
I think Victor created a doll and philemon gave it a soul
Amazing video as always, keep up the good work!
I never really payed attention to the Velvet Room lore, so this video helps a lot
One interpretation I’ve heard is that Lavenza is a young girl because Joker was a child who was forced to grow up too fast because of his falsified criminal record.
I love this so much thank you for this as so many people unsure what it is and just seem like they never really think about it
Holy shit nyarly cameo
I'm really interested in the lore behind the Velvet Room and everything it has to do with it. Nice video!
pd: I would have also loved if you talked a bit about Jose, from P5R, who even though is not actually confirmed to have anything to do with the Room (if I recall correctly) he has yellow eyes and gray hair, implying some ties between them :P
This was a really cool video bro. I like how you talked about the devil summoner connections. I'm really curious as to how Persona fits in with the boarder smt multiverse and lore in reference to shadows, the velvet room, sea of souls ect. Like the idea of the different planes of existence and different dimensions. Like would you say persona's sea of souls is equivalent to the Abyss in smt? Or even the metaverse/cognitive world? From what I gather there is like 3-4 planes or dimensions. The real physical world, The metaverse/cognitive space, and the sea of souls/Abyss. I feel like the velvet room is in its own way a 4th dimension since it exists in the in-between. Sea of souls shares similarities to the Abyss. And I feel like boarder SMT generally functions off of the idea of demons and gods existing because of human belief I them. This is similar to all personas coming from the Sea of Souls. The difference between persona and SMT mainline is which plane you meet demons (the real world, or the metaphysical one) on, and how you recruit or form your contracts with them (devil summoner via comp, vs persona user). About the dimensions though, I think demons/persona can exist on any plane, physical, mental, & spiritual. Forming a contract with a persona is just a different method of summoning a demon. Personas are just demons who have formed a personal contact with a user, instead of being forcibly summoned via comp. Actually interestingly enough I think both Nahobino and Demifiend are more similar to persona users in the aspect of them not using a comp, and recruiting party members via contract/negotiation only. I think it's interesting persona users can still hear their persona's voice at times in the real world, and Joker saw Arsene in the real would before actually forming a contact and summoning him. At the end of P5 they could also use their personas in the real world once reality started ro merge. Speaking of cognitive space though, would the Tokyo you live in in SMTV bc considered cognitive space? Like the real Tokyo is a desert wasteland. From what I understood Da'ta is the real world and Tokyo is the preserved space everyone has been living it after it was preserved by YHWY, so wouldn't that make it like a metaverse situation? Is any of the characters ever real? Or are all the real humans dead, and they are just cognitive copies? Or have real humans just actually been trapped in cognitive space? Also SMTV takes place in a post Demifiend killing God ending where he stops the cycle of conception? And that's why the cognitive space of Tokyo is crumbling and they're getting invaded by demons from the outside? There's a lot of questions here. But then again doesn't Nahobino kinda forge a new type of conception? Except YHWY is dead/dispersed??? And there's a power vacuum??? So Nahobino isn't the chosen one, but he's basically in the same position as Demifiend during the conception? Like how much was SMTV trying to copy from nocturne again??? Point being my fan theory is telling me it's all connected. Like every obscure piece of lore from both persona and SMT is intertwined and its just a puzzle. Also note on the velvet room: Did Akechi Goro ever have access or rather a connection to yaldabaoth? I know on some level he was, and was being puppeteered, but was he actually another wilde card, or could have had the potential to be. You could say Loki and Robinhood are two aspects of himself and that's why he had more than one, but Joker also calls for different aspects of himself when he forms new contracts. It's not so dissimilar. Akechi also never had a formal contract with the velvet room, but he did essentially perform fusion if you get his 3rd semester persona. The only thing is the game would not let you switch between them while playing him. But cannonically he could and did switch between Loki and Robin. Also like correct me if I'm wrong,but in P2 they could also have other party members with multiple persona? But it had to be of their same arcana, and only Tatsuya could use different arcana? There's is just a lot of holes and missing information. Maybe Atlus just doesn't care that much about the details? Like each game is still a stand alone, and consistent lore is extra. But idk what do you think, if feel like there's a lot to think about.
When the Thieves confront Akechi in Shido's Palace, they say that he has a comparable power of Joker, so I believe he was the wild card of the false Igor! Thanks for your comment, it was interesting to complement the info in the video about both series in-lore connection.
Very detailed video! Learned a lot!
Cool video! I was just pondering the Velvet Room recently.
Larrue, have you considered and is there any evidence to suggest that the attendants represent the Animus/Anima concept from Jung? The fact that Theo is a man sparked this idea in my mind. IIRC correctly, he only appears in the FeMC side of P3P.
Maybe they even have yellow eyes because of they are in a similar category as the shadows, being inhuman, spirit beings who are part of the MCs psyche. Morgana kinda throws a wrench in that, but being made in haste and as a guide to humanity generally, is that enough to fudge it and make it work with everything else?
2:35 And in Persona5 Tactica: it's a train!
I think Philemon was terrified of the cup/old yald, and after the whole Nyarl situation decided maybe direct intervention isn't a good idea anymore.
You should watch the first 2 seasons of Twin Peaks and the film Fire Walk With Me. The Persona games make a lot more sense when you do. I watched those before my first Persona game so when I started I was like "Oh shit P4 is just Twin Peaks with JoJo stands" which I love.
Why not the third season
@@PushingFriend28 For the purposes of Persona inspiration, the 2 seasons and the movie are what would have gone into the series. The 3rd season is good but it's both quite different and came incredibly later.
Well, actually... (adjusts glasses), Marie is actually Izanami. The Sagiris and Izanami no Okami were different parts of herself.
Cool video. I appreciate the amount of research you put into them.
Would you make a video about the "Artificial Persona Users" or you don't think there is much in it?
I could look into that!
The Velvet Room is SUUUUUUUUUCH an interesting concept. I would love to figure out like, a way to make a DIY Velvet Room office because it could be anything theoretically! It was a fuCKING C A R! A CAAAAAAAAR!!! tHATS NOT A ROOM BUT STILL COOL AS FUCK!
I need a version of the velvet room that has Laura Palmer
I'd say with the P5's attendant it's most likely the simple representation of "innocence" since he knows he isn't a criminal. So his state of mind is an innocent man being imprisoned wrongfully hence his attendant.
None of the other attendants represent abstract ideas like that tbh, and it still disconnects with the intended velvet room design
I always kinda considered Teddie from Persona 4 as a character related to the Velvet Room even though he’s technically a shadow. He does kinda look like the other attendants though. Who knows maybe in P6 he’ll be the attendant.
finally a room in which curtains are blue for a reason
20:29 It means he's just like me fr fr
I hope P6 is just Elizabeth's journey so it finally ends.
But also because I love Elizabeth and need more of her.
well this already late to discover but Igor stated that he is a puppet that Philemon created as the Master of the Velvet room and his existence anchor the velvet room as his absence make the realm unstable
lavenza is a child to represent the future of humanity Joker is fighting for , some of her personality is also inside Morgana
"Igor will always be there" Didnt he go away to find out truth about himself after P5 and thats why its only Lavenza in Strikers and Tactica?
i haven't played strikers but i'm pretty sure he isn't there in tactica because of salmael being a dick
Welcome to the Velvet Room
Does that mean in persona 3,4 and 5 whenever the protagonist goes through the blue door they’re just asleep standing up ?
So in Persona 3 they only really acknowledge that the first time . I guess the velvet room is further away from the rest of your group but no one goes in to check on him? Tartarus entrance is basically mostly empty circular room with a staircase in the middle and a teleporter to the side. If I seen our leader lose conscious every night or every few minutes or hours he wouldn’t be my leader
they just kind of just see them space out until they exit
I know this is probably an unimportant detail, but the comb that Marrie has is a reference to the myth of Izanagi and Izanami. Izanami traveled to the underworld to speak with it's lord in order to make a deal of some kind with him. And when Izanagi eventually followed her down, Izanami said she was fine and to leave without seeing her. However Izanagi lit his COMB on fire to see the true state of his wife, when he saw her she was no more than a decaying corpse, Izanagi fled while being pursued by demons sent by Izanami, where Izanagi sealed the entrance. Izanami swore to kill over 1,000 humans a day, where Izanagi swore to create more than she destroyed. The comb Marrie was gifted was the same comb from this story, and it is a metaphor for seeking the truth, as Izanagi used said comb to find the cruel but true state of his wife in the underworld.
It's a shame Igor's Japanese voice actor passed away.
Poor Theodore! Stop bullying him!😢 He deserves better!
Anyway! Justice for Theodore and The female main character/FEMC/Kotone!😢
common larrue w
23:05 Isn't the Igor in P5 a fake somehow? So if he's going to return will he be more or less compassionate to the protagonist instead of a stoic?
The villain of 5 was masquerading as Igor for most of the game, however real Igor is freed near the end of the vanilla story. From that point onwards and during the 3rd semester it is the real Igor helping Joker. He is noticeably far more compassionate than the fake, and more inline with characterization in previous games.
Has anyone read Frankenstein? Apparently, the Velvet assistants are all based of characters from the novel. I wanna read it lol
I have, a couple names are taken from there but I don’t really think there is any other parallels between the characters. Great book though, you should read it.
Just gonna throw out the guess that Velvet room attendants are shadows. Seeing as the main character's shadow characters have the same eyes. White hair in narrative tends to imply albinoism or a creature of a rare and unnatural nature.
So fanfictioning for a bit. A velvet room attendant is a shadow borne from the collective unconsciousness and forcibly shaped into humans but somewhat failing to be complete as they lack a true self. And yet still able to use persona like the wild card as a result.
But Elizabeth unlocked the wild card by going through personal growth
I once believed that velvet room attendants were humans with the wild card, but failed with their journey, get reborn in the velvet room and now help future wild card. I could be wrong but thats what i personally think
🔥
Is the SMT V documentary cancelled?
Naw it's the next project I just have been taking my time with it
@@Larrue I see, then I shall let you cook 🔥🔥
When do we get a black velvetroom attendant???
I never thought Lavenza looked like a maid, I always thought she looked more like a justice as she even carried what looks like a book on the law and has the thigh high boots. She does have the frilly head band, but I still think her outfit looks a bit too flat to be a maid. Plus her being a justice does clash with the protagonist as a vigilante with a sense of personal justice.
Like I said in the video the velvet room was likely supposed to be a hotel but was corrupted and that's why it's a jail and why her outfit doesn't correlate with Caroline and Justine's. There's even concept art showing the hotel design.
Larrue warrue
what about Jose?
Fun Fact: In the novel Frankenstein, Victor did not have a hunchback assistant, did not conduct experiments in a castle, and the monster never had a name. Also, the scientist was not crazy. He was trying to go against the unreasonable constraints the Roman Catholic Church placed/influenced upon science during the time.
There is an adaptation of the novel called "Mary Shelly's Frankenstein" that follows the story better versus the weird tangential version made by Hollywood that everyone knows about. It was never released in theaters as far as I know, sadly, only on DVD.
What about Jose tho?
He's the part 9 Jojo of course
I didn't talk about him because I wasn't quite sure how he fit given what we know. I also haven't finished reading the persona 5 stuff so there's a good chance there's more there
The Phantom Thieves infiltrate palaces, and Lavenza is a maid, so I think that's the connection.
I was wondering if you were going to mention the Black Lodge at all. I'd love to see a darker Lynchian style persona game.
The singing lady is so elegant and sexy through her voice and gives me goth mommy vibes
11:13 Why is it called the black lodge if it's red?
It's cuz it's the red room, but in the show it's assumed to be the black lodge
@@Larrue What's the difference?
@glennparker7028 the black lodge and the White Lodge are concepts mentioned whereas the red room is a place that is actually visited but not understood. So they don't know if it is a part or the whole of the black lodge
Igor probably would’ve appeared in every game if his JPN VA didn’t die
P5 protagonist is a phantom thief. Quite literally a criminal. Lavenza pushes that theme and idea even further.
why is always a contract between the player and the velvet room? i mean it's always asking you to sign a yourself, instead of just giving the MC their canon name. I don't think it's just because "customization".
Because you're meant to be the protagonist
@@Larrue yeah that was a rethorical question, i think every other mc played by everyone, you, me etc... are all cannon in the sea of guests.
The Persona 5's attendant that matches him is a little girl and the velvet room that matches his mind is a prison......................suddenly not sure I want to play as him any more.
Uhh I'm not sure about that whole evil phone, siloute willy thing I don't wanna fact check that. I PRAY THATS A JOKE PLEASE TELL ME IT'S JUST A JOKE
it's not LOL
So joker is just a lolicon confirmed? So a very op alice run is in character?
I've always loved the first impression of Elizabeth was she's eccentric and it must be because she's otherworldly and unfamiliar with human world customs. But as more Persona games came out with their own attendants and the spinoffs have them interact as siblings, you've come to realize Elizabeth is just a weirdo.