I always liked Doi's human designs but I think his demon designs are notable in how quickly they get better - there's a clear improvement in them between every new title even though Apocalypse also had some good ones.
I get why people might've reacted poorly to Doi's work early on, people are reluctant towards change, but people were overreacting as usual. I get how iconic many of Kaneko's demons are, but he chose to step down and let someone else's creativity take over. Doi is getting more comfortable in his role as demon designer and I think he has a good philosophy to spawn demons that are both interesting, original and accurate enough (when necessary or available)
I really like Doi a lot. I understand why, but I really would've liked to see him in charge of character design in Metaphor ReFantazio rather than Soejima. I think Doi's style is more suited to fantasy than Soejima's.
@@backupschmliff1156 It looks like Persona characters with horns and elf ears, which feels unimaginative to me. Looking at some of the early character designs for SMT IV and IV Apocalypse, I feel like we could've gotten something really special.
@@backupschmliff1156 That is a good idea on paper but Soejima sadly just gave us "regular human with extra steps". It doesn't feel like modern-but-fantasy but just like stuff he's already done in the past. They don't stand out as unique compared to his past work.
@@Cue-Ball. Are we seeing the same game? I've followed Soejima's work since the beginning. Stuff like Stella Deus, and this is by far his most unique and different. It looks like nothing he has ever done before.
Doi has very good character design sense, especially with colors. The small detail that each of the samurai Prentices have a uniquely colored bandana was a stroke of genius tbh.
He's okay in SMT, but his shit is too busy, and in many cases over designed, its become another thing visually, I miss the original fella, wished we got to see how his newer demons would have turned out.
Honestly I think people give Doi way too much flack Imagine, people are going to compare your art to fucking Kazuma Kaneko. I would fucking crumble instantly
I really like Masayuki Doi's art, he's probably one of my favorite artists and personally I prefer his art to Kaneko's. Idk why I just really like the brighter colors and the more heterogeneous designs, they look great. That is all. Btw, my favorite designs made by him are Satan and Anansi
Kaneko's style will always be my favourite but Doi has made some great designs and I'd never say he was a bad pick for the new games. Kaneko had bad designs too and needed a lot of time and experience to hit his peaks.
Kaneko's designs really peaked in the Raidou Kuzunoha games. They finally became natural to look at and didn't stand out. Doi's enviromental design is excelent. Waiting for SMT V to realse on Steam to appreciate the full Doi expirience.
i had no idea he took point on smt iv character design -- the only mainline SMT with changeable outfits based on armor selection (the one with far and away the best fashion design in the series, imo). that fact alone wins me over, and makes me curious to see what he'll do in the future. so, thank you for the thorough research! also just wanted to take a sec to note the total stylistic turn between SMTV and VV -- their presentation is absolutely night and day. that european PS5 cover you had up at 14:42 is NUTS. that they've made custom glyphs for VENGEANCE alone is proof that they're more confident in the presentation of this project. contrast that with the standard serif font of the original SMTV. i remember seeing SMTV in the store for the first time and thinking it looked like a truly generic JRPG, so i'm so happy to see more intentional design from the team. thanks again Warrue, one more W Accepted
As someone who is still relatively new to smt as a whole, I would love a dedicated art book for Doi like kaneko has. Looks like i gotta watch who designed what demons vid now cuz im interested.
Really enjoyed the video and learned alot! Anansi has got to be one of my favorite Doimon desgins especially as someone who grew up reading about Anansi. Doi did a fantastic job!
Good video! Personally Fionn mac Cumhaill is my favorite doimon, I know it might be a boring answer but I just think he did amazing with this one. I also like Krishna and Anahita quite a lot.
I'll die on the hill of SMT4's fugly archangels, they got that biblically-accurate angel vibe He's a great artist, my only critique is I think mayne some of his designs are a lil too tokusatsu for my taste
No idea why people hate Demeter so much. Because she's a cute girl and looks young? People wanted her to look like a fertility goddess? Demeter is the goddess of harvest and plentifulness as well, she doesn't need to be a MILF. I think she meshes really well with Zeus as well. It's definitely not offensively bad like some people pretend it is, she doesn't close to being as bad as like Diana for example.
That's the thing tho, Diana is a great design, it's so weird and unsettling. (It's why i like his Manananggal design) Demeter is just a basic anime girl, kinds sad and out of place honestly. Zeus could be better but it's trying to do something interesting, those are the only doi's designs i find 'meh'.
That’s exactly why people don’t like Demeter. They wanted a sexy milf looking goddess but Doi has the right idea of Demeter looking like this. Greek gods would often disguise themselves and manipulate humans. In the context of SJ it makes sense
Y'know Larrue, this great video got me thinking...... you should do a video covering your favorite Kaneko designs and another one covering your least favorite Kaneko designs. And maybe 2 others for Doi's, way later on.
I don't necessarily agree that deviating too much automatically makes a design bad, I think it's whether or not the deviation is interesting, ex. making Beelzebub into a cute anime girl or a generic doom creature is a deviation that isn't interesting. I think if Doi redesigned Beelzebub into something more abstract from the more literal form that the kaneko designs were, it wouldn't be bad that they diverge but that it's uninspired.
Yeah my point was that Kaneko didn't necessarily always draw fresh abstract interpretation, many including the Beelzebub we know from Kaneko is just lifted directed from source or is random and that Doi is part of a team or so it was explained, so that his work is subject to team scrutiny in a way Kaneko's wasn't
@@Larrue I like most female designs but question why so many mother goddesses look like "lolis". I miss many old designs, some that never got to be in 3D.
I'm loving his new designs too. I also hated him before but now i think he's a great artist, i still prefer Kaneko tho. Also, can you send me the link to your wiki?
just want to say, ive been watching this channel for a few years now and i love how informative every video is and how you even provide the sources found in the video. its because of this channel that i know as much megaten lore (specifically about the development side of things) that i do. keep up the good work larrue
It could have been maybe twice as long, I'm still buying and importing some magazines and books that might have more insight on Doi but it's hard to find what I'm looking for
It's so nice seeing Doi comfortably come into his own. The same with Kozuka with his composition work. The both of them have done such great things for the series.
@@Larrue haha I don’t remember why exactly… it was easy to remember naamah tho cuz she looks like zeus lol. What was wrong with the lilith one? All I can think of is she’s kind of plain? But also maybe too much pattern?
I think whenever you have to be reductive in matters of taste you're already incorrect. Because the point of this video was the nuance of all the things people don't consider when it comes to the design work.
Doi isn't that good of an artist IMO. Drawing the same looking girls/twinks. It's even worse with his weird patterns and weird obsession into putting Tokusatsu color schemes into everything (The scarfs of the Samurai in SMT IV, the color scheme of the party members in Apocalypse by even destroying Nozomi's hunter looking design to some idiotic looking power girl with a stupid looking glasses and the most egregious example of all, the original cover art of SMT 5 with non characters just to fulfill his Tokusatsu main character color scheme fetish). Doi's 'skill' is never going to evolve unless he changes something, and will always go along with the "broader audience" desires rather than doing his own stuff (which always sucked), the fact that he refuses to get assistants like Kaneko (Soejima, Shiraishi) and Soejima (Kabayashi, Oribe, Shimada) did shows how much of a insecure hack he is. Thank God, Oribe and Shimada were chosen as Soejima's replacements in Persona.
Give us the Doi art book atlus we want more 'Knowledge' on him
There isn't even a SMTV art book 😭😭
Oh! hey Johne! How are you?
What is that supposed to mean Johne
"i'm not really a fan of Doi designs"
*adds jiggle physics*
"i didn't know you were chill like that Doi-sama"
"he is one of us"
Naamah moment
You can't beat us fairly
I always liked Doi's human designs but I think his demon designs are notable in how quickly they get better - there's a clear improvement in them between every new title even though Apocalypse also had some good ones.
smt vv has done wonders for doi pr
I won't lie, People hate Doi's Zeus and Odin, but I love them. They looks so freaking cool and interesting. And in 3D model, they looks even better.
I get why people might've reacted poorly to Doi's work early on, people are reluctant towards change, but people were overreacting as usual. I get how iconic many of Kaneko's demons are, but he chose to step down and let someone else's creativity take over. Doi is getting more comfortable in his role as demon designer and I think he has a good philosophy to spawn demons that are both interesting, original and accurate enough (when necessary or available)
I really like Doi a lot. I understand why, but I really would've liked to see him in charge of character design in Metaphor ReFantazio rather than Soejima. I think Doi's style is more suited to fantasy than Soejima's.
Are you serious? That's what makes it so interesting. Metaphor looks modern but fantasy. And it's easily the pinnacle of Soejima's artstyle.
@@backupschmliff1156 It looks like Persona characters with horns and elf ears, which feels unimaginative to me. Looking at some of the early character designs for SMT IV and IV Apocalypse, I feel like we could've gotten something really special.
@@backupschmliff1156 That is a good idea on paper but Soejima sadly just gave us "regular human with extra steps". It doesn't feel like modern-but-fantasy but just like stuff he's already done in the past. They don't stand out as unique compared to his past work.
@@tabris95We'll have to agree to disagree. I've never seen any of the designs in Metaphor in Persona.
@@Cue-Ball. Are we seeing the same game? I've followed Soejima's work since the beginning. Stuff like Stella Deus, and this is by far his most unique and different. It looks like nothing he has ever done before.
Doi has very good character design sense, especially with colors. The small detail that each of the samurai Prentices have a uniquely colored bandana was a stroke of genius tbh.
He's okay in SMT, but his shit is too busy, and in many cases over designed, its become another thing visually, I miss the original fella, wished we got to see how his newer demons would have turned out.
Honestly I think people give Doi way too much flack
Imagine, people are going to compare your art to fucking Kazuma Kaneko. I would fucking crumble instantly
I really like Masayuki Doi's art, he's probably one of my favorite artists and personally I prefer his art to Kaneko's. Idk why I just really like the brighter colors and the more heterogeneous designs, they look great. That is all.
Btw, my favorite designs made by him are Satan and Anansi
had no clue Doi did stuff for Nocturne and Persona 3, really informative
I was pretty shocked when I saw his name on the credits too
i seriously like his work on smtV. his designs gave that game a pretty unforgettable vibe
I love doi and kaneko equally. They both gunfire.
Welcome back king
Doi is cool, he def gets too much hate.
Fav design of his is probably Amanozako.
Kaneko's style will always be my favourite but Doi has made some great designs and I'd never say he was a bad pick for the new games. Kaneko had bad designs too and needed a lot of time and experience to hit his peaks.
Ngl I used to be an avid Doi hater during SMTIVA period, but he cooked for both SMTV games
I always loved his work so I never understood the obsession to compare him to Kaneko.
My favorite Doi character design is Naomi from her Trauma Team incarnation, and my favorite Doi demon is Aitvaras from 5
Kaneko basically looked at Doi and said "I'm gonna make you good at background art"
Doi is my Boi!
That Naamah skill IN SMT5V?
KEPT ME BIG AS HELL!
Kaneko's designs really peaked in the Raidou Kuzunoha games. They finally became natural to look at and didn't stand out.
Doi's enviromental design is excelent. Waiting for SMT V to realse on Steam to appreciate the full Doi expirience.
I love Doi's designs tho
i been doi-pilled since IV he did a good job there.
My favorite design currently is konohana sakuya
i had no idea he took point on smt iv character design -- the only mainline SMT with changeable outfits based on armor selection (the one with far and away the best fashion design in the series, imo). that fact alone wins me over, and makes me curious to see what he'll do in the future. so, thank you for the thorough research!
also just wanted to take a sec to note the total stylistic turn between SMTV and VV -- their presentation is absolutely night and day. that european PS5 cover you had up at 14:42 is NUTS. that they've made custom glyphs for VENGEANCE alone is proof that they're more confident in the presentation of this project. contrast that with the standard serif font of the original SMTV. i remember seeing SMTV in the store for the first time and thinking it looked like a truly generic JRPG, so i'm so happy to see more intentional design from the team.
thanks again Warrue, one more W Accepted
As someone who is still relatively new to smt as a whole, I would love a dedicated art book for Doi like kaneko has. Looks like i gotta watch who designed what demons vid now cuz im interested.
Really love hearing about the design process for demons, makes me think about them in a whole new way
You missed out he did something for Maken X his first 3D game as Window Designer.
I kinda skipped over most of the stuff if I couldn't find quality interviews to read from him
I LOVE Anansi and Nuwa (Nahobino and Snake Nuwa especially). I think most of Dois best work really shows in V and I can’t wait to see more in VV.
finally some respect on his name
he is truly not as good as kaneko but. i think thats okay
Really enjoyed the video and learned alot! Anansi has got to be one of my favorite Doimon desgins especially as someone who grew up reading about Anansi. Doi did a fantastic job!
Yeah I'm gonna cover the vv demons a bit more in depth in my next video coming out next week :)
Just finished watching and, great informative vid!! Also my favorite doimons are Idun, Konohana Sakuya and Amabie
Good video! Personally Fionn mac Cumhaill is my favorite doimon, I know it might be a boring answer but I just think he did amazing with this one. I also like Krishna and Anahita quite a lot.
I'll die on the hill of SMT4's fugly archangels, they got that biblically-accurate angel vibe
He's a great artist, my only critique is I think mayne some of his designs are a lil too tokusatsu for my taste
He did not design the angels in smtiv
I'd love a Doi art book. Doi describes himself as an openbook so I'd love to learn more about him.
Im on my knees praying for his satan to appear in smtvv
So glad Doi has come into his own since the era he was the "not-Soejima" artist.
No idea why people hate Demeter so much. Because she's a cute girl and looks young? People wanted her to look like a fertility goddess? Demeter is the goddess of harvest and plentifulness as well, she doesn't need to be a MILF. I think she meshes really well with Zeus as well. It's definitely not offensively bad like some people pretend it is, she doesn't close to being as bad as like Diana for example.
That's the thing tho, Diana is a great design, it's so weird and unsettling. (It's why i like his Manananggal design) Demeter is just a basic anime girl, kinds sad and out of place honestly. Zeus could be better but it's trying to do something interesting, those are the only doi's designs i find 'meh'.
That’s exactly why people don’t like Demeter. They wanted a sexy milf looking goddess but Doi has the right idea of Demeter looking like this. Greek gods would often disguise themselves and manipulate humans. In the context of SJ it makes sense
I feel like his demon designs are way too beautiful anime. Especially in smt v. I hate how artemis looks.
Thank you for making this video. Way too much shade being thrown at Masayuki Doi before the launch of V_V. He's an awesome artist.
Y'know Larrue, this great video got me thinking...... you should do a video covering your favorite Kaneko designs and another one covering your least favorite Kaneko designs. And maybe 2 others for Doi's, way later on.
return of the King
I don't necessarily agree that deviating too much automatically makes a design bad, I think it's whether or not the deviation is interesting, ex. making Beelzebub into a cute anime girl or a generic doom creature is a deviation that isn't interesting. I think if Doi redesigned Beelzebub into something more abstract from the more literal form that the kaneko designs were, it wouldn't be bad that they diverge but that it's uninspired.
Yeah my point was that Kaneko didn't necessarily always draw fresh abstract interpretation, many including the Beelzebub we know from Kaneko is just lifted directed from source or is random and that Doi is part of a team or so it was explained, so that his work is subject to team scrutiny in a way Kaneko's wasn't
@@Larrue yeah, I agree, I also agree that there are many Kaneko stinkers that people ignore like the vast majority of MT2 demons imo
Ayyy, back and with a great video too!
I actually really liked the design of Napaea, in comparison to Pixie. But was mostly disappointed with the rest smtiv’s designs.
I freaking LOVE Doi's art and his character/demon designs he's honestly one of my favorite artists
I like both artists. I have played a little bit of SMT IV and SMT V. The demon designs are really cool.
The best Megaten art is probably the Persona series, SMT IV, SMT V, and Strange Journey.
16:24 hee-ho mofo
Let's go Doi. More time on demon design surely will get his sense up in the future
I hate the Doi Angel design other then that I have mixed feelings about most of his designs.
How do you feel about the new ones?
@@Larrue I like most female designs but question why so many mother goddesses look like "lolis". I miss many old designs, some that never got to be in 3D.
@@DragonKingX78we're twins.
Love the art style in these games and I'm happy to learn more about it ::3 thanks for the vid I subbed!
I'm loving his new designs too. I also hated him before but now i think he's a great artist, i still prefer Kaneko tho.
Also, can you send me the link to your wiki?
megatenwiki
megatenwiki.com/wiki/Main_Page
Thanks
just want to say, ive been watching this channel for a few years now and i love how informative every video is and how you even provide the sources found in the video. its because of this channel that i know as much megaten lore (specifically about the development side of things) that i do. keep up the good work larrue
I'm glad you value it! I'll definitely keep it up :)
Daaaaam son this game gonna get trampled on by elden ring dlc😂😂 should have released it earlier there was nothing in may
Welcome back, Larrue. Missed you man. Glad those guys aren't attacking you anymore.
Yeah lol I checked my filtered comments and there was sooooo much worse but luckily it didn't bother me, except I got caught up arguing a bit 😭
Glad to see some positivity around Doi for a change
Interesting dude lol. Hope you're doing well too brother
Doi doi doi
Doi? Doi! Doi.
I have to fill out the masuki doi apology form.
What I'm getting from this is Doi needs to be bullied to make consistent bangers :V
More like the taste of the rest of atlus was holding him back
was looking for a video more on Doi, his art grew on me over time
Larrue are you sure the video was 19:43 only don't cut anything.
Welcome back.
It could have been maybe twice as long, I'm still buying and importing some magazines and books that might have more insight on Doi but it's hard to find what I'm looking for
@@Larrue as always keep it up. 😎
It's so nice seeing Doi comfortably come into his own. The same with Kozuka with his composition work. The both of them have done such great things for the series.
I know larrue doesn’t like naamah, I presume the other he doesn’t like is lilith…? Or is it the hat girl? I know he likes the creepy girl
Damn you really know me LOL it was Naamah and lilith
@@Larrue haha I don’t remember why exactly… it was easy to remember naamah tho cuz she looks like zeus lol.
What was wrong with the lilith one? All I can think of is she’s kind of plain? But also maybe too much pattern?
This was a good video. Well no doi 😂
Easily Krishna
Doi is an amazing for 3d models and putting more personality in design.
I think whenever you have to be reductive in matters of taste you're already incorrect. Because the point of this video was the nuance of all the things people don't consider when it comes to the design work.
@@Larrue I get that. I just enjoy the translation to 3d as his art feels stilted left in 2d as a gif that moves constantly.
Doi boi good!
Doi good
Doi isn't that good of an artist IMO. Drawing the same looking girls/twinks. It's even worse with his weird patterns and weird obsession into putting Tokusatsu color schemes into everything (The scarfs of the Samurai in SMT IV, the color scheme of the party members in Apocalypse by even destroying Nozomi's hunter looking design to some idiotic looking power girl with a stupid looking glasses and the most egregious example of all, the original cover art of SMT 5 with non characters just to fulfill his Tokusatsu main character color scheme fetish).
Doi's 'skill' is never going to evolve unless he changes something, and will always go along with the "broader audience" desires rather than doing his own stuff (which always sucked), the fact that he refuses to get assistants like Kaneko (Soejima, Shiraishi) and Soejima (Kabayashi, Oribe, Shimada) did shows how much of a insecure hack he is. Thank God, Oribe and Shimada were chosen as Soejima's replacements in Persona.