Well, that makes sense and I agree with you, IF you mostly do up cuts. However, the vast majority of people do mostly down cuts with limited up cuts. So the user needs to tighten the chain accordingly.
Your sights will be off if you use this method. If you are falling trees, you want your bar all the way up so that the sights are at a 90 degree angle to the bar. It will cause you to miss your desired shot, especially when cutting taller timber. Also if your bar is moving up or down when you are sawing, your bar nuts aren’t tight enough. No offense, but this is bad advice.
As a fifth generation tree faller. I have to agree fellas. This might work for you yard work guys but in the woods with a pro saw. You don't fubar the equipment if you have a little common sense. I'll keep running my power saws with the tip up. Like I was taught, a long, long time ago. by professional loggers!!! Or listen to the engineer. The chainsaw is not a wheel, no need to reinvent. In competent hands it will get the job done and cut down a whole forest no problem! I have never burnt up bearings or bent a crank. I have only burnt up a tip once while logging next to a creek in alaska. It was winter and the trunks of the trees were covered in silt coated in ice from overflow. My saws run like a scalded dog and I lean on em all day. Operator error is why saws break down, not from raising the tip. I grew up in a little town called mill city oregon, timber country. Tell me now. If you pinch the bar alot raising or dropping the bar is the least of your problems. Good luck!
@@tysonhillyer484 I'm trying tk get my grandmother to run a battery dewalt saw so she can cut stuff around her house. Figured after a couple months I'll have her on the ms661c
Redbull661....This is some of the best information I have seen. Being an engineer your video made a lot of sense. I have bound my saws up on several occasions to the point of them stopping and the chain being immovable mounting it the way everyone (including Sihl, Husky, Echo, Poulan and others)recommend and never knew why. The only way you can tighten the bar nuts tight enough to keep an oily bar mount area from slipping you risk pulling a bar stud out. I am going to your method and if the chain gets loose I can always loosen the bar nuts and retighten as necessary. It sure beats buying a new bar/replacing a sprocket nose and crank. Thanks so much for this invaluable piece of information. I guess if you are going to do nothing but buck firewood holding the tip up would make sense. For limbing, undercutting to get the tension side, and all of the other reasons I use the top of my bars I am using your method of installing my bars from now on. Thank you so much!
That’s not necessarily true. As a traveling mechanic for over 15 years, airlines would lose our tools every third trip or so. So naturally we would have to buy new tools. I get what your saying though.
On a 36" bar I broke a tensioner on my 660 and was told to take the weight off when tensioning. Seems to work, just a finger and a thumb holding the pressure off the tensioner.
You dogs are meant to be a pivot point for a downward cut put under pressure. That's why you pull the nose up, because if the bars moving anywhere it upwards and if your mid cut and your saw goes slack and your chain comes off, we'll that does damage too. Tighten your nuts and you'll be fine.
Yeah, late viewing and comment here... Interesting viewpoint, and point taken, IF, IF, one up cuts primarily, as the creator says he does here. Most would advise lifting the bar when tightening the bar nuts, and as some have pointed out, if the bar nuts are tensioned properly, the bar should not move?! This may not be the case with longer heavier bars, say, over 28 inches? I don't know? Other good point that some made is the sighting. YMMV What I sometimes wonder is when the bar is lifted, how well does the oiler groove line up with the bar? Stay safe and Healthy! 👍✌😊
Great question, I’m going to try to see where the oiler lines up at. He’s right though about the chain tension on bottom of bar being looser when bar is pointing upwards. Comment?
@@dentondunn4346 Hey Denton, good to hear from you and thanks for comment. I’ve run saws for a number of years. Now, I would not begin to put myself in the leagues of ‘a fleet command,’ Bucking Billy Ray,’ ‘Tinman,’ and others. But I can hold my own. 😀 But based upon my experience and usage, I routinely flip my bar, and ‘dress’ it, & keep the teeth sharpened ( Important) When I put a new chain on, I tension it like normal, and run it half throttle for a couple of minutes, and re check the tension. Then I go on and get it into some wood. ALWAYS carry a scrench, as a new chain, or really any chain, will need to be re tensioned at some point. I have never had a new chain NOT need some tightening when run new, even so called ‘pre stretched’ chains. I see some guys tug and pull a bar up, and then crank the livin heck outta the bar nuts. Unnecessary ! I lightly lift up the bar, and alternate tightening the nuts, snugly, until the bar does not move. Take the scrench, and turn the chain a few times by hand, and check how it runs on the bar. Chain should just touch the bottom of the bar, and be able to be pulled away at the top. Turning it by hand helps here. Too tight, and it will be hard to turn. If I am reading you correctly, you were asking me if you raise the bar, there will be a little more slack on the bottom? Yes, and that is why majority of users and technicians say to raise the bar when tensioning the chain. The chain doesn’t need to be super duper tight on the bar, but running a loose chain is asking for trouble. Like anything in Life, try to “Hit a happy medium!” I’m not even going to go into various types of woods, and chain types, and whether one is bucking, vs felling. Comment long as it is! 🙄 Stay safe and Healthy! Peace
You'd think there would be less wobble and more precision. I'd like to hear the reason for so much clearance. The longer the bar the greater the effect you are talking about.
I agree with d hamby - Most people are cutting downwards when cutting firewood. Even when racing, you have 2 cuts down and 1 cut up. So both ways of cutting wood prove this wrong. Unless you are limbing a tree?
dex whats up dude! I think the point Scott is trying to make is that if you tension your chain with bar lifted there is no fudge factor. If the user for example has a dull chain and is pressing harder on the bar then the chain will tighten up and cause damage. Just one example. There are a variety of situations where this could happen. But if you tighten and tension the bar without lifting it. I think what he is getting at is the user will end up pushing the bar up and by doing so will loosen the chain and keep from damage. That said, I've ran my saws like this since I met scott approx 4 years now and have never had an issue.
I thought you were supposed to hold the Saw wide-open 4 stroking just above the balsa-wood and SLAM the Saw into the wood ala the Snailerizer ! And to think all these years I’ve been doing it incorrectly!
If you are just cutting normally with this setup then you chain will become loose and have a greater chance of coming off the bar and damaging your drivers right??
Click bait and misleading to say folks are doing it wrong by lifting the bar… most do not do the majority of their cutting above the nose. Lifting the bar is the correct way to tighten the chain with standard bar use and still works well with occasional over the nose use during limping, etc.
That's. Great for you that makes up cuts! But I bet most people cut top to bottom witch would make there chain loose if they did it this way! Just one of those things where you need to adjust accordingly
Seems like you want to loose your chain. When you catch wood with both sides of your chain, you will loose your chain. Sometimes even have to replace it.
Oiler wont line up. Sights will be way off. And if you are putting that much pressure for an up cut or whatever you call it , and the chain comes loose, learn to sharpen the chain. Lol
Obviously you don't do much cutting...even the saw manuals tell you to lift the bar to get proper chain tension ..oh yea your saw looks to nice to be a logger of any kind...from a 40 plus year logger timber faller in the Pacific Northwest. Shoe
I would say yes, because doesn't matter how tight you get those nuts it will always move to the opposite position of the side you cutting with. If you're cutting only with the bottom of the bar your bar will be pushed up all the time. So to me it makes sense to tighten it in upper position, where the bar will end up anyway.
Why would they say In manual to lift the bar up? Is it because most cut with the bottom of the bar? Thinking I’ll never raise mine again. Y’all are awesome. I need my saws ported. Know anywhere I can send it to thas reputable? I’m in North Carolina though. Would love to send it to you guys if y’all do porting.
I het what your saying but if your doing tree fellong or bucking you put a peice of 2x4 under the tip and put pressure doen on the saw when you tighten. You do that so it can get tighter when sawing you understand that dont you? Any other professional out there will say the same thing. Even if you up cut you are still stretching things out just not as much
Well, that makes sense and I agree with you, IF you mostly do up cuts. However, the vast majority of people do mostly down cuts with limited up cuts. So the user needs to tighten the chain accordingly.
I was taught to hold the bar up because it lines up with the sight lines and I have never had the bar drop down and tighten the chain.
Your sights will be off if you use this method. If you are falling trees, you want your bar all the way up so that the sights are at a 90 degree angle to the bar. It will cause you to miss your desired shot, especially when cutting taller timber. Also if your bar is moving up or down when you are sawing, your bar nuts aren’t tight enough. No offense, but this is bad advice.
Agree. I've always put my bar up since I started tree work at 16. I've never had an issue.
As a fifth generation tree faller. I have to agree fellas. This might work for you yard work guys but in the woods with a pro saw. You don't fubar the equipment if you have a little common sense. I'll keep running my power saws with the tip up. Like I was taught, a long, long time ago. by professional loggers!!! Or listen to the engineer. The chainsaw is not a wheel, no need to reinvent. In competent hands it will get the job done and cut down a whole forest no problem! I have never burnt up bearings or bent a crank. I have only burnt up a tip once while logging next to a creek in alaska. It was winter and the trunks of the trees were covered in silt coated in ice from overflow. My saws run like a scalded dog and I lean on em all day. Operator error is why saws break down, not from raising the tip. I grew up in a little town called mill city oregon, timber country. Tell me now. If you pinch the bar alot raising or dropping the bar is the least of your problems. Good luck!
@@tysonhillyer484 5th gen your the guy to talk to
@@BigInjun05 Nah I just calls it likes I sees it brother. Hell even the woman in my family can run a saw
@@tysonhillyer484 I'm trying tk get my grandmother to run a battery dewalt saw so she can cut stuff around her house. Figured after a couple months I'll have her on the ms661c
The title should have been "why "I" don't pull the bar up to tighten "my" chain".
Sorry but I call BS on this.
Makes sense I just blew a tip on my 660 mag.
No way bud, been falling trees for years your bar should never move in the mount if properly tightend anyways. This is hooey for sure.
Correct BKB
Yeah nah. If you want loose chains driving you mental do it like this. If you cut all day do not. Lift the bar dont take the lazy option.
I respect your opinion but i will say you are the first person i have heard say this.
Redbull661....This is some of the best information I have seen. Being an engineer your video made a lot of sense. I have bound my saws up on several occasions to the point of them stopping and the chain being immovable mounting it the way everyone (including Sihl, Husky, Echo, Poulan and others)recommend and never knew why. The only way you can tighten the bar nuts tight enough to keep an oily bar mount area from slipping you risk pulling a bar stud out. I am going to your method and if the chain gets loose I can always loosen the bar nuts and retighten as necessary. It sure beats buying a new bar/replacing a sprocket nose and crank. Thanks so much for this invaluable piece of information.
I guess if you are going to do nothing but buck firewood holding the tip up would make sense. For limbing, undercutting to get the tension side, and all of the other reasons I use the top of my bars I am using your method of installing my bars from now on. Thank you so much!
Never take advice from someone who's tools are too clean.
That’s not necessarily true. As a traveling mechanic for over 15 years, airlines would lose our tools every third trip or so. So naturally we would have to buy new tools. I get what your saying though.
The sprocket on my saw is more in line with bar when the bar is left down.
Very interesting. I almost didnt bother to watch this but im glad i did. Interesting. For sure.
It only works if the chain is on upside down.
That's a Heck of a homemade semi skip chain.....
thank you sir! too much time on my hands or something???! ; )
I been doing this for years. But people who don't run saws for a living are the experts!!
Very interesting take on that. I as well do about 50% up. I’ll have to give it a shot. Thanks
Interesting, makes sense...my question is why saw manufactures have so much play there to begin with, tolerances could be tighter in my opinion.
Lifted for years with no issues. Later made bushings for the bar studs that have eliminated sloppy up and down bar movement. Now it’s a non-issue…👍
Sounds like the best thing to do...
On a 36" bar I broke a tensioner on my 660 and was told to take the weight off when tensioning. Seems to work, just a finger and a thumb holding the pressure off the tensioner.
If you got 25 plus years with chainsaw, do the way you feel is right and what works your situation.
I always life the bar like they say you should. I always have to loosen my chain. Thanks you for this.
This is hilarious!!!!😂😂😂😂😂
You dogs are meant to be a pivot point for a downward cut put under pressure. That's why you pull the nose up, because if the bars moving anywhere it upwards and if your mid cut and your saw goes slack and your chain comes off, we'll that does damage too. Tighten your nuts and you'll be fine.
I do the same thing. But after i tighten the clutch cover down i turn the tensioner back about a quarter or half turn
If you don't raise your bar, your aiming markings are off.
Good knowledge to pass along.
New thought for me, but I’ll be keeping that thought in mind.
I've been doing it this way for 4 years now. Doesn't hurt to try it.
Makes sense to me. I been doing it wrong for to long and didn’t know it. Thanks for the advice.
Yeah, late viewing and comment here...
Interesting viewpoint, and point taken, IF, IF, one up cuts primarily, as the creator says he does here. Most would advise lifting the bar when tightening the bar nuts, and as some have pointed out, if the bar nuts are tensioned properly, the bar should not move?! This may not be the case with longer heavier bars, say, over 28 inches? I don't know? Other good point that some made is the sighting. YMMV
What I sometimes wonder is when the bar is lifted, how well does the oiler groove line up with the bar?
Stay safe and Healthy! 👍✌😊
Great question, I’m going to try to see where the oiler lines up at. He’s right though about the chain tension on bottom of bar being looser when bar is pointing upwards. Comment?
@@dentondunn4346 Hey Denton, good to hear from you and thanks for comment. I’ve run saws for a number of years. Now, I would not begin to put myself in the leagues of ‘a fleet command,’ Bucking Billy Ray,’ ‘Tinman,’ and others. But I can hold my own. 😀
But based upon my experience and usage, I routinely flip my bar, and ‘dress’ it, & keep the teeth sharpened ( Important) When I put a new chain on, I tension it like normal, and run it half throttle for a couple of minutes, and re check the tension. Then I go on and get it into some wood. ALWAYS carry a scrench, as a new chain, or really any chain, will need to be re tensioned at some point. I have never had a new chain NOT need some tightening when run new, even so called ‘pre stretched’ chains.
I see some guys tug and pull a bar up, and then crank the livin heck outta the bar nuts. Unnecessary ! I lightly lift up the bar, and alternate tightening the nuts, snugly, until the bar does not move. Take the scrench, and turn the chain a few times by hand, and check how it runs on the bar. Chain should just touch the bottom of the bar, and be able to be pulled away at the top. Turning it by hand helps here. Too tight, and it will be hard to turn.
If I am reading you correctly, you were asking me if you raise the bar, there will be a little more slack on the bottom? Yes, and that is why majority of users and technicians say to raise the bar when tensioning the chain. The chain doesn’t need to be super duper tight on the bar, but running a loose chain is asking for trouble. Like anything in Life, try to “Hit a happy medium!”
I’m not even going to go into various types of woods, and chain types, and whether one is bucking, vs felling. Comment long as it is! 🙄 Stay safe and Healthy! Peace
@@georgedavall9449 thanks my friend
You'd think there would be less wobble and more precision. I'd like to hear the reason for so much clearance. The longer the bar the greater the effect you are talking about.
I agree with d hamby - Most people are cutting downwards when cutting firewood. Even when racing, you have 2 cuts down and 1 cut up. So both ways of cutting wood prove this wrong. Unless you are limbing a tree?
dex whats up dude! I think the point Scott is trying to make is that if you tension your chain with bar lifted there is no fudge factor. If the user for example has a dull chain and is pressing harder on the bar then the chain will tighten up and cause damage. Just one example. There are a variety of situations where this could happen.
But if you tighten and tension the bar without lifting it. I think what he is getting at is the user will end up pushing the bar up and by doing so will loosen the chain and keep from damage.
That said, I've ran my saws like this since I met scott approx 4 years now and have never had an issue.
Makes sense. Great job on the vids. Thanks!
Makes sense just picked up my 1st 24" for a nice dollar and will go about the chain tension same way, that saw of yours looks badass man
I'll still set the tip down but not get to heavy on it
I thought you were supposed to hold the Saw wide-open 4 stroking just above the balsa-wood and SLAM the Saw into the wood ala the Snailerizer ! And to think all these years I’ve been doing it incorrectly!
If you are just cutting normally with this setup then you chain will become loose and have a greater chance of coming off the bar and damaging your drivers right??
has never happened to me. I'd say try it.
Great video and I’m definitely going to try it.
If your falling a tree your gunning sights wont be accurate. Gosh darn rookies
Click bait and misleading to say folks are doing it wrong by lifting the bar… most do not do the majority of their cutting above the nose. Lifting the bar is the correct way to tighten the chain with standard bar use and still works well with occasional over the nose use during limping, etc.
folks will eventually learn. . .
Sir Thank you for your knowledge.
thanks
Been raising my bars and tightening the chains and doing lots of up cuts
That's. Great for you that makes up cuts! But I bet most people cut top to bottom witch would make there chain loose if they did it this way! Just one of those things where you need to adjust accordingly
If you don't lift it up the sights will be off
The videographer sounds an awful lot like August H
Seems like you want to loose your chain. When you catch wood with both sides of your chain, you will loose your chain. Sometimes even have to replace it.
Oiler wont line up. Sights will be way off. And if you are putting that much pressure for an up cut or whatever you call it , and the chain comes loose, learn to sharpen the chain. Lol
Obviously you don't do much cutting...even the saw manuals tell you to lift the bar to get proper chain tension
..oh yea your saw looks to nice to be a logger of any kind...from a 40 plus year logger timber faller in the Pacific Northwest. Shoe
Great tip thanks a lot👍
Wow that explains it, I noticed a few times my chain got very tight after some quick cutting, I raised my bar always. Now I will not.
I like those dogs.
Ahh? Chains stretch. Duh
Nice Saw
As a faller for 30 years this is crap info. Sites don't line up especially on tall trees. Lmao!!
I have never had a bar move on the mount and tighten the chain in many years
It won't move setting in shed!
@@steppoffaith8426 if mine sat in a shed i wouldnt own them to begin with
Do you like the Tsumara better than a Sugihara?
2:34 The exact opposite when it comes to woman 😂
Split the difference?
I thought it was to align the oiler hole.
How does that affect sighting in face cuts?
A lot
put a square on it, sight line and bar
I understand your reasoning. But your sights are definitely off. Especially if you ever cut tall timber
disagree!!!
Yeah the title of the video is misleading because ppl have different uses for there saw
Raise bar if you mostly down cut, bottom of bar?
I would say yes, because doesn't matter how tight you get those nuts it will always move to the opposite position of the side you cutting with. If you're cutting only with the bottom of the bar your bar will be pushed up all the time. So to me it makes sense to tighten it in upper position, where the bar will end up anyway.
Why would they say In manual to lift the bar up? Is it because most cut with the bottom of the bar? Thinking I’ll never raise mine again. Y’all are awesome. I need my saws ported. Know anywhere I can send it to thas reputable? I’m in North Carolina though. Would love to send it to you guys if y’all do porting.
What model is the chainsaw
Yah , Are ya tryin to say that BS has been doin it wrong all these years ?
makes sense
Wrong
Nope. Sorry but ur wrong and have over thought this
NAHH.....I'll keep putting mine up.
I het what your saying but if your doing tree fellong or bucking you put a peice of 2x4 under the tip and put pressure doen on the saw when you tighten. You do that so it can get tighter when sawing you understand that dont you? Any other professional out there will say the same thing. Even if you up cut you are still stretching things out just not as much