All of the gods: *giving useful tricks and gifts to Pandora* Ares: "once a month you will bleed, and the bleeding with cause you immense pain and rage. Your period is my gift" Rest of the gods: "Dude wtf?"
Wall at least he isn’t a douche like the other gods!!! Not the greatest at gift giving sometimes, but isn’t a rapist and actually cares about his kids!!!!
Humans were never imortal, they were always mortal because humans and animals are creations of Prometheus and Epimetheus, sons of Iapetus the Titan of Mortality. Also everything that Gaia creates without Ouranos is mortal, like monsters and other creatures, and even humans. And the golden humans lived in the Titan Age, also called the Golden Age. After that war humans were destroyed, and Prometheus needed to create new humans, but they were constantly nerfed in the silver, bronze and iron ages.
I like the version where Hestia agrees with Prometheus and lets him sneak off with fire because it it sort of counteracts the whole sexism thing and Hestia’s cool like that.
It has nothing to do with women, Hestia is a goddess. Greeks always made a strong distinction between mortals and gods. They don't play by the same rules, they're not comparable.
"...Created to be evil and sexy, and make everything worse." Wait, so, according to this story Zeus built an enticing convoluted trap (ladies) to ruin human lives, and then just continuously jammed his own face into it over the years? Your King of Gods, everybody!
Zeus: "We're gonna punish you with the worst thing imaginable...You, but prettier, with smoother skin, and dangly bits in different places!" Guys: "Uhh, thank you?"
"Best punishment ever!! I mean, uhhh... Oh no, she's so hot and smart. Wait Zeus she's not for you!! My punishment!!!" And Zeus continued to bang his way through the generations.
I find this hilarious. However, maybe the whole reason women got a brain is to be the punishment for man. There was suddenly a living organisms that could think for themselves and didn't serve man😂
Here is a yikes interpretation. Since Zeus instigated this BS and takes credit for the creation of women, he feels entitled to his own creation, i.e. his property. Big Yikes
@@LordVader1094 I used to say it ironically. Then one day it became a regular part of my diction and I can't turn it off. Run before it's too late for you.
Funny that Zeus creates women as a punishment or whatever considering he basically spends the rest of his mythos strolling down to earth to get in their pants.
Well, the other gods had hands in it...except Hera, apparently. Also, how did Hermes help create Pandora, the first woman, when his mother Maia was a mortal?
PhazonOmega I know it’s a joke but, I already saw this wayyyy too much in the comment section and there was no way of knowing if they were joking or not so.....By women they meant Female humans, since Prometheus literaly sculpted the entire human race as male, goddesses, as non humans, weren’t counted in what they meant by ‘women’ in the context.
I'd totally free Prometheus if I ever had the chance. The dudes cool. And we kinda owe him. Edit: I am aware he was freed. It was a hypothetical thought in which I was saying if I were there I would’ve attempted to help the guy out. Can’t be a pyro without fire, so I’m invested already!
Fun fact: some versions pen “hope” as the worst of all the evils, as it’s only an illusion that things will get better and is preventing mortals from simply offing themselves to end their misery. Isn’t mythology fun! EDIT: I’m actually kind of terrified this has been upvoted so much. Please do not take this as advice and take this as an alternative reading of a popular story
-_- you laugh but some superstitious asshole probably believes it. There are still entire areas in this world where they believe a woman cannot physically let down her hair without causing catastrophe(or "being a witch"- not the religious groups that parts of cheerfully embrace the ill begot moniker either--- ppl who are just like them but just wanted to wear there hair down)... So... I've got no faith in humanity to assume there isn't some idiot who doesn't genuinely believe fluttering eyelashes are disastrous.
AuroraLalune I understand people are like this due to tradition. They kill children due to tradition. I in no way wanted to offend or support this topic.
TheThreadWeaver Why didn't Humanity just worship him instead of the petty lecherous storm God who usually fucks humanity (both figuratively and *very* literally)
Inquisitor Thomas Because Zeus had a very fragil ego and would hit you with a lighting bolt if you didn't pay him tribute, on the other hand Prometeus was like "No is fine, I don't need anything, you guys are cute and funny"
Also it would seem(?) as if Zeus is the stronger of the two, seeing how he was confidently able to chain up put Prometheus and just confidently leave him there.
+Inquisitor Thomas Because Zeus is petty, he punished humanity because Prometheus wanted humans to be able to eat. Promehtheus was also a Titan, not a god, I don't think they got worshiped.
Athena: I take your Rook with my Bishop Aries: I execute my knight in front of the rest of my army for failing to defend my Rook Athena: That’s not how- you know what fine
What’s funny is in ancient Athens Greek woman were not even allowed to leave their own houses unless accompanied by their male spouse. The Greeks views of women were quite interesting aren’t they...
I *never* understood how the evils *escaping* the urn means they're now plaguing mankind, but Hope *staying* in the urn means mankind still has it/can feel it. Evil is affecting mankind by being out of the urn, but Hope is affecting mankind by being *in* it? *That's a complete contradiction!*
The urn could be symbolic for humanity. Pandora opening the urn and letting out the enumerated evils upon the world would then represent how most of the causes of human suffering are self-inflicted by vices like greed, wrath, pride, et al., and lust (connection to Pandora, the first female human, opening the urn). In other words our internal vices cause misery for those external to us. Hope staying in the jar would represent how hope is the one characteristic of all of humanity that doesn't primarily affect those around us. I've never heard anyone use this explanation, but it sounds like a plausible theory to me.
I heard a different version where the box contained *good* stuff, all the gifts from the gods, and when she opened it they escaped and humanity was left with nothing but Hope that still remained in the box.
There were two kinds of "hopes" in ancient Greece, and though there was no consensus on which one it was, it could also have been the bad kind of hope, the one where a person foolishly hopes for things to go their way when all evidence points otherwise. A deception they cast upon themselves.
Perhaps Hope stayed in the jar because - unlike all the evils which tend to actively hunt us down - Hope can only be acquired through seeking it out yourself. Hope is not merely felt; it can only ever be *found* - and even if you've already lost everything else, Hope stays behind, patiently waiting for someone to decide she's worth searching for.
I heard it as it not being hope in the urn but rather foreboding - the knowledge of whats to come. It staying in the box meant humanity could delude itself into thinking things could get better when they can't, which is...
A pithos. The box was not gifted to the Greeks before the lesser known Titan,Boxitheus,gave it to humanity. He was punished by being locked into a box forever.
I think the implication was that the box was essentially Pandora's dowry, and its evils could only be gifted upon humanity once Epimetheus accepted her amongst their midst. Thus, not only did she need to be beautiful enough to be enticing for humanity, but she also needed to be cunning enough to set Epimetheus' worries at ease despite literally being a gift from Zeus, the guy who Epimetheus was warned against accepting gifts from. (I mean sure he was kind of an idiot so it wasn't super difficult, but it still takes a bit of cunning to convince the guy to specifically do the thing his notoriously smart brother specifically told him not to do.)
Part of the reason why Pandora being beautiful yet evil and cunning is such a big deal is also because in ancient Greece, people, especially philosophers and artists, used to consider that there's a clear connection between physical beauty and virtue, and by default, if you were physically ugly you must be evil XD
Poor Hephaestus. Yeah, Ancient Greeks took a huge deal with it comes to beauty to a ridiculous standards, to the point there's a saying *Kaloi k'agathoi* ("the Beautiful and the Good"). Phryne is a good historical example of this. She was a courtesan who's put on trial for committing blasphemy against Aphrodite, but she defend herself by citing her beauty basically saying "why would you condemn me to death if the gods gave me this beauty", and then the judges let her off free.
Thank you for mentioning what RED chose to ignore so she can go on a "reee men are the real evil and enslaved their wives" tangent that has no actual historical basis.
PANDORA: (leans back from turning the webcam on) "Hey guys! It's ya girl Pandora here, and today I've got a special treat for you all--this magical mystery jar from Zeus Enterprises! I can't wait to open this thing, I got it yesterday but my HDMI cable went out and I had to go pray to Hephaestos to make me a new one...anyway, let's get to it!" :) ..now I kind of want, like, a web series or maybe cartoon where famous mythological characters host various types of web shows. :P And it could tie into their myths/personalities...like, Hercules could have a workout program, Thor is all about hardware (hammers!), Aphrodite is the dating expert...
As a dude myself, I read a bit of Hesiod for my World Mythology class a while back, and honestly... nah, you're spot on. Dude was the definition of a misogynistic bitter incel with too much time on his hands.
@@benapeh854 As someone who identifies as pseudo-Christian (I believe in a God-esque entity that is omni-benevolent, a just afterlife, and I think Jesus of Nazareth had some kind of divine inspiration from the aforementioned God-esque entity), I 100% see the Old Testament as mythology, and I know several Christians who think the same. The far-right self-righteous maniacs who spout nonsense like "God hates the gays!" and "Abortion is murder!" are a very vocal minority of Christianity.
@Ben Apeh I mean, if I remember correctly, the Bible itself doesn't actually cast more judgment on Eve than on Adam for eating from the apple first. God punishes both of them for breaking his rules, not putting more blame on one than on the other. It was later People interpreting the book that came up with the BS reasoning of 'Eve ate from the apple first and gave it to Adam and therefore she and all women are totally to blame for this'.
If Hesiod's definition of evil is sexy and sly, then I'm certain that this was inspired by the time he was ripped off by a hooker. And if that was the case, then Hesiod's life is best suited to be a satire.
What about Hesiod's ankle fetish? I had to read the Theogony for a class, and Hesiod literally compliments four different goddesses in the text as "one with... nice ankles." *Careless whisper intensifies* Or how about Hesiod's complete lack of understanding bee biology when he tried to say men are like buzy honey bees while the lazy women drones stay in the hive! I'll let you figure out why that analogy falls apart completely. 🤣
Hera: Hey Zeus you wanna hear your worst nightmare? Zeus: Uhh, I highly doubt you know- Hera: A smart beautiful woman with personally Zeus: *Screeches*
@@michaeliv284 considering she never just kills the results of zeues exploits instead just tests them till she gets board I don't the she's that smart.
Sexism existed Mainly in Athens. Remember Greece was a collection of warring city-states. Records show that the biggest name in gender equality back then was actually Sparta, they let women be single own property be educated and even get male-dominated jobs. That's why Athens and Sparta were such big rivals.
Red will always aposse blue, North will always aposse South and West will always aposse East. I guess it's balance?🤔 Sorry I've been playing ACO. Sparta, is red and Athens is blue.
To say that two states were rivals because of one single issue is a gross oversimplification, and only makes sense in fiction, in reality there are a lot of reasons states have rivalries between them (economics, religion, culture, military, alliances, territorial expansion), states tend to pick out one single issue and use it an excuse to escalate preexisting rivalries from other factors, as for why Sparta and Athens were rivals, the factors include cultural differences (Spartans were a blunt and simple with words, while Athenians loved their words, just to give an idea), military (Sparta being the foremost military power of Ancient Greece, thought Athens the major naval power of its day, something the Spartans never quiet got the hang of), economy (Athens was powerful economically while Sparta's economic footprint on Greece as a whole was minimal), and alliances/territorial expansion (Sparta dominated the Peloponnese through alliances, Athens is also very close to that peninsula, putting it in the cross-hairs of being conquered or forced into the alliance under Sparta, on the other hand, Athens was an expanding empire, thus making it a threat to Sparta's alliance)
@@weik-2936 I can see how my wording may come across as saying that was the only reason, but I meant to say that that was a reason, not the reason. I'm sorry that my wording was off I could edit it to be more clarified.
Can we take a moment to contemplate that there is a high chance some woman played Hesiod like a violin thousands of years ago and we still got a register of how much salt was left afterwards?
Athenian woman: "Why are Spartan women treated better?" Spartan queen: "Because Spartan women give birth to REAL men." *invents the mic just to drop it*
@@vladprus4019 this is EXPLICITLY NOT how any of that worked. tha spartans didnt think a whole lot more of their women, they just had to do more because the men were always somewhere fighting uprisings and wars
I've heard that, in some versions, hope is the worst thing to come out of the box. It's thought of as a falsehood and illusion, simply preventing people from ending their lives and freeing themselves from the other evils. Which I'm going to put under the "Yikes!" category and move on.
What I don't get, is that if hope was left, then that means it wasn't unleashed onto the world. What does it even matter if it's still in the jar/box? Or maybe 'hope is an illusion' _because_ she never let it go? So we have all the evil stuff without the counteractive force that's supposed to balance it out.
Quite shockingly the comments section here is pretty fucking tame, especially compared to a lot of other prior videos. Christ, the one where she refuses to draw Muhammed alone..
Do NOT let Aphrodite hear you say that. I agree with you, but if the goddess of love finds out......based off the myths about her, well it won't end well.
"Pandora promptly dumps the contents of her jar full of evil and humanity is immediately stricken with all kinds of nasty things, like natural lifespans and childbirth and *swedish fish* " DEAD
I honestly didn't know of this version. The tale of Pandora i grew up with (and the one i prefer honestly), was about how great, nice and wonderful she was. In the version i knew (Before watching this one) she never wanted to hurt anyone, and was tricked to open the box, by the nasty evils inside, and felt guilt when she realized what she had just done.
I prefer the one where she is told to never ever open the box for any reason, guaranteeing that curiosity gets the better of her eventually. It also explains why one thing didnt escape, as she closed the lid and trapped it inside.
On a much more positive note, apparently there are earlier versions of Pandora's story that tells a much different tale. In order to trick Prometheus's brother, who basically followed the family footsteps of protecting humanity from the gods, Pandora was presented as a bride along with her "box," containing all things good and useful to mankind. In essence, Zeus created the guise of a peace offering by presenting humans with forces of nature that formerly belonged to the gods, giving the power instead to them. Pandora, of course following the classic fatally curious flaw, opened the "box" and let loose all these things back into the hands of the gods, save one. Closing the lid in time, Pandora kept Hope within the box, and so to this day the power of hope still rests solely in our hearts. It's a much better story than insinuating Hesiod's message that women let loose all things save for Hope, literally meaning that men have no hope against the evils of women.
@ Madeleine Svensson There is an american candy named swedish fish. it kind of tastes like cherry. that's what people are defending, not sturströmming. I doubt anyone will defend sturströmming.
So... does this hatred of stories portraying you as pure evil mean I should *not* finish writing my fanfiction in which you're an evil overlord set to conquer the Earth?
The Greeks didn't really have boxes. But they had a certain kind of vase that you could close with a lid, a pithos. The whole box idea comes mostly from painters and sculptors in the Renaissance.
fraya1022 it depends on the artist really. In greek,we refer to the box as a box too(/kootee/), but well. As the 2 people before me said,it was neither a box nor a vase. It's an ancient greek thing that was made out of clay-
Not just pandora, but also a lot of other stories, the amazons for an example iirc are formed because they hated their husbands who just made them cook and clean . Sorry for bad english
Interestingly, the version I hear of this has the inciting incident events switched around - Prometheus steals the fire, first, Zeus is huffy, but gets over it when he notices the humans burning meat as sacrifices to the gods. Still, Prometheus notices this is a really raw deal for humans, so does the tricking Zeus with the meat thing, and THAT gets Zeus mad enough that he chains Prometheus up and gets down to making Pandora. Wonder if that impacts the rest of the story, any?
Well, it makes Prometheus look like he picked up a particularly sticky Idiot Ball, Zeus a Planck Length's less of an arse, and the other God(dess)(s) supportive family members.
Another version was Prometheus had wanted to give humans the best of the best (hint why humans are smarter and can walk on two legs) but his brother had already given claws and fangs to the animals without thinking to leave something for the humans. Promethus then decides to steal fire so humans can have the best weapon. Can't recall the full part of this but in order to get the fire it involved him tricking Zeus with the food.
@@midnightgear2616 I mean, Zeus is also super full of the good old fashioned hubris, too - the whole point being that he was angry at being made to look stupid because someone pulled a fast one.
"Hope" is however also considered an evil in the mythology as it deceives mankind into believing (or hoping) for salvation instead of acting upon achieving it themselves.
Yuwan and yet somehow less dumb than the standard version's "dumps out all the evils, so those are in the world, but hope doesn't come out so we have that too"... The myth is a huge mess
@Yuwan Different culture, different views. But in a way it makes sense, instead of sitting on your arse hoping for things to get better (not like the Gods would let it), you go out and make things better yourself.
Hope can be both a Good and Bad thing. It allows for the idea of a better future being possible while also creating situations with major decisions being made on hope alone, which is a very weak foundation by itself.
"And humanity is immediately stricken with all kinds of bad things like natural lifespans, childbirth and Swedish fish" People need to talk about this more.
@@lunariumaqua3033 Or the freeze-dried fish that Scandinavians packed with them on every journey, used as trade goods and sometimes food. To become edible they had to be pulverised with a hammer then boiled or gummed for several hours. The challenge to cut down a tree with a herring in "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" could have been based on the Swedish dehydrated and cured fish that were harder than wood and retained a sharp edge until thoroughly soaked.
Zeus: hey epimetheus got a present Epimetheus: what is it Zeus: it's called a woman and it's totally great Epimetheus: ok sure what could go wrong Pandora: *yeets open box*
2:34 quotes like these are the reason why these episodes are so entertaining. See, they lure you in as "Overly Sarcastic Productions", but their sarcasm actually has valid arguments underneath
Red: Humanity was then cursed with nasty things like natural lifespans and childbirth and Swedish Fish! Me: *gAsP* WHAT DID YOU JUST SAY ABOUT SWEDISH FISH?!?!
MsKitkatluver123 That's not true. When I was at elementary school I used to call Mythology history and so did everyone else. Now I'm just stuck with it.
Helen Kenway It would be a very interesting world if the myths of all the gods were considered actual history... Not that I’m saying it’s bad on your part to call mythology history.
There are other versions of the story where the jar breaks accidentally, or where the husband is the one to open it. It’s awhile later in late antiquity and the Middle Ages that she becomes someone who’s insatiably curious. I have to believe that the later characteristics of Pandora are heavily influenced by Eve.
I know I'm an athiest and all, but I'm still confused at how they managed to explain away the fact that female goddesses already existed alongside male gods, yet women are some special "gift" to humanity which didn't exist yet. Also, I want to hear the rest of prometheus's story. And is this the end of Pandora's story? did nothing special happen after she unleashed all that evil? Also if zeus is the Head-god, how come literally everytime I hear about him it's him fucking with humanity to make life harder, why would anyone worship him?
3:11 "This is a bad call, as Pandora promptly dumps out the contents of her jar full of evil, and humanity is immediately stricken with all kinds of nasty things, like natural lifespans and childbirth and Swedish Fish." Dang, Red. Way to call a whole type of candy out. But... I don't disagree Edit: also, wouldn't hope staying in the jar mean that humanity will NEVER have hope?
I used to puzzle about the hope thing too, until I read somewhere that hope staying in the jar meant that it's under humanity's *control*, rather than it flying around every which way.
I'd like to think that was a bit of poetic justice against him and the gods for allowing that to happen. Before Pandora's box the gods payed relatively little attention to human, but after the punishment of the evils humans seemed to become all the more fascinating to them.
Did the Athenians keep women on a separate floor/denying them property rights because they believed that women with brains/power were all pure evil, or did they invent a myth saying that women with brains/power were pure evil to justify the fact they keeping women on a separate floor/denying them property rights?
@@IggyTthunders There is little doubt that ancient Greek society was a massively sexist patriarchal one that kept women in low regard and structurally and personally oppressed them badly, even by the standards of their time.
@@olenickel66 "There is little doubt" No doubt, huh? How very academic. (Actually, if it's the social sciences, it is "academic.") "Greek society was a massively sexist patriarchal one that kept women in low regard and structurally and personally oppressed them badly, even by the standards of their time." "Even by the standards of their time." Are you an expert in ancient European cultures, by any chance? Because that's a pretty broad assumption: especially when you take into account women have, as far back as recorded history, always been prioritized in western society: hence why men protect, provide and even die for them. That doesn't sound, logically, like someone held in low regard: not the way you seem to be implying. Women were infantalized, yes, but but dehumanized. You don't protect people who you consider less than human. You protect children, of course, more than anyone or anything, but, you don't let them vote: anymore than you let them go to war. And you are HARDLY talking about Spartan women, who were voting citizens, were educated extensively, and were trained as the last line of defense; when all the men were dead.
I always thought this story was super hilarious... I mean, I'm sure it's based in a lot of bad practices with women in greek city states and such... But it is pretty amusing. Even if I don't agree with what it implies about women. I think the over exaggerated implication is kind of funny, when you really look at what Greeks seriously thought.
@@IggyTthunders Theseus was definitely not smart considering his little misadventure with Pirithous. Herakles would make more sense to mention, seeing as none of his myths actually portray him as a colossal idiot.
Red's constant insistence to take her retelling with a grain of salt because she retold it with the Black Sea (Paraphrasing) actually makes me trust this retelling more: She admits that she was upset by the extreme sexism in the story but she admits that this may have effected the reliability of the retelling, but since she recognised this and put aside her bias as much as possible I believe that makes this more reliable. It is extremely impressive that she admits her bias and attempts to put it aside when the story is written by a two thousand year old precursor of the average male on the internet when the word 'feminism' is mentioned. The story literally claims that women were put on Earth as punishment for Prometheus' 'slights' against Zeus. I would really like to see a miscellaneous myths episode on the Epic of Gilgamesh, please, and if you ever branch out to poetry could you please do Percy Shelley's Ozymandias.
"It is extremely impressive that she admits her bias and attempts to put it aside when the story is *written by a two thousand year old precursor of the average male on the internet when the word 'feminism' is mentioned.* " Woah there. That's some not-too-light sexism yourself, friend (you're implying the average man is sexist). The Greeks' opinions on women aside, the majority of complaints about feminism (as a movement), are entirely valid.
**Woah there. That's some not-too-light sexism yourself, friend (you're implying the average man is sexist). The Greeks' opinions on women aside, the majority of complaints about feminism (as a movement), are entirely valid.** not the average man, just the average online man (or woman, lets be real here) that has an issue with anything that has even a whiff of feminism how ever slight on it and gets bitterly triggered and nasty at the "offender." And also **not all** complaints against feminism are "entirely" *valid* some are valid criticisms (that even I can acknowledge and agree with), and others are obviously motivated by ignorance or hate. (waits to be emphatically reminded how feminists, do the same thing...)
So, here's what got me on this: I have always heard that what zeus actually did was create women to temper man, not punish them. The versions I'm familiar with talk of giving women the gift of wisdom and intellect to balance out man because apparently a lot of greek myths have strong dudes and smart women or something... More likely to trust her retelling but, that was how I originally read that myth. But I also read it on wikipedia.
WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT... So Zeus got mad about sacrificing shenanigans, so he took away fire, which is quite integral to the whole sacrificing the food thing... LOGIC
I don't remember Hera kicking Zeus ass anywhere in the greek mythos. As far as I know she focused her anger on his bastard children because there was nothing she could do against her husband.
eh, Hera normally does not kick his ass as much as play the occasional trick on him. Normally by trying to distract him with sexiness at inconvenient times, like the Trojan War,.
I mean, I've also come across non-mythological ancient Greek texts that insisted that the only true love was the love between two men. Not because the Greeks were all incredibly homo-erotic (well, they kind of were, but they were just kind of universally erotic), but because the author believed that women were somehow incapable of that sort of depth of connection. The ancient Greeks made a lot of progress in societal development, but gender equality was *not* a part of that progress. Women were often treated as livestock who could talk.
I swear, men have had their egos threatened by women since the beginning of time. Why. Capable, headstrong goddesses like Athena and Artemis and renowned real-life scholars like Hypatia are evidence that the Ancient Greeks knew on at least SOME level that women were people and not just one-note evil harpies all day, everyday, so just. Fucking why. Think of how much more advanced humanity would be if half our population wasn't systematically oppressed for several millennia. I wish we had time travel so we could see just where and how this harrowing, long-persisting vitriol towards women originated :/
@@Ambulatory_Viscount Please, tell us more about how your mommy issues are in any way relevant to the rest of half the world's population, oh wise guru of women. In GREAT detail, if you're able. you're either a Lv. 2 troll or a straight dumbfuck. To your fortune, it's pretty much impossible to tell the difference between the two on the internet, so you get points for authenticity either way.
@@rueenglish9328 If you were curious,this mindset that "men are better than women" probably originated from the fact that men could do manual labor better and were mostly hunters,while women were gatherers who gathered fruits and stuff. Or maybe something else entirely,you never know,the universe is a strange place.
@@inanjarif1388 yeah, intellect being the basis of worth for the majority of the population is actually a fairly recent development. Before most of the population (commoners and such who needed to perform manual labor to survive) valued physical strength and endurance, and as such women were generally viewed as inferior (technically true I guess, but let's not go there), while in the modern day you need brain power more than muscle power, and since men and women are equal in that sexism has been slowly eroded away. hm, what physical advantages do women have?... (Looks at childbirth) pain tolerance?
The whole "Hope stays in the jar" metaphor never really made sense to me. Like, wait, all of the bad shit got let out of the jar, and therefore now belongs to humanity, but Hope stays in the jar, and therefore also belongs to humanity? All aboard the S.S. Mixed Metaphor, and don't forget to fasten your seatbelt and locate the exit nearest to you, because it's going to be a bumpy ride.
Remember that to the Ancient Greeks, Hope was an EVIL, it represented the Spark of Hubris, the HOPE that Mortals might Have a Chance at Equaling the Gods themselves. and as I recall it was left in as a simple matter of Giving Humanity the CHOICE as to if they wanted to release it or not... Considering how many heroes/monsters have the Flaw of Hubris, you can guess which choice was made...
KG Motte Okay, so according to Wikipedia, Hesiod didn't explicitly say what Hope staying in the jar was meant to symbolize, so it's open to interpretation. That said, I'm pretty sure from context that Hope is supposed to be a positive quality, and that it staying in the jar is SUPPOSED to represent that it belongs to mankind. Thinking on it, I guess one interpretation could be that Hope being contained in the jar makes it something that mankind can control; thus while death, disease, etc. happen to you whether you like it or not, hope is something you have to choose. EDIT: Apparently, there is some lost-in-translation nonsense with the word hope, so my interpretation may be way off.
Honestly, I read a retelling of Pandora's tale when I was a kid and I didn't understand it. Or, well, maybe I understood it too much. I always thought Zeus was being kind of a jerk (like usually), wanting to punish humanity for that fire thing with Prometheus, but by making like if it was Pandora's fault. Like, "hey, take this mystery box, don't open it maybe" and Pandora, as a human, said "but what's inside and why are you giving it to me?" and Zeus all like "just don't open it I have to make at least four new demi-gods, see ya". Of course she is gonna open it! Everybody would! And, knowing Zeus, maybe if Pandora decided to not open the box, he would make her fall and make the box open itself with the hit, because lol.
Zeus’ thought process for creating Pandora probably went something like this: Zeus (thinking): Ok, so I need to think of a way to punish humanity for getting fire back, hmmm.... Hera: Zeus! Did you sleep with Mnemosyne NINE TIMES and impregnate her with the Muses? Why can’t you go five minutes without cheating on me? Zeus: Bingo! Why should I be the only one to suffer?
You in an alternate universe I agree! Red really I love your contents but your voice is what lingers all day in my head. I wish we could hear the hole song..
It sounds like stories like this were made to explain and rationalize why society treated women the way they did. Also keep in mind that we are judging a ancient culture base on modern societal standards and the ancient greeks probably ask us. "Why are your women not subservient to you (with the exception of Sparta)?" "Why arn't you more gay or bi sexual?" "Why did you make slavery illegal?" Our simple answer to those questions would be "stuff happened, we started to feel differently about how we did things and Society changed."
Right And Wrong Exists No Matter The Culture Or Era: Women Are Not Subservient Because Most People Have Realized How Stupid It Is To Expect That Based On Nothing But Gender,We're Not More Gay/Bi Because Christianity Became A Big Deal And Made People Think It Was't Ok And Slaves Are Illegal Because Most People Figured Out That It's Wrong To Own A Another Human (Kinky Sexy Times Aside). The Morality Was Always THERE: It Just Took WAY Too Long For People To Realize It. I Think It's Totally Fair To Judge A Time/Culture Based On Things That Are Objectively Right And Wrong.
@@JT5555 First of all, caps-lock is not in fact cruise control for cool. Secondly how are you so certain what you believe in right now is the "objective" right and wrong? In 1, 2, 3-hundred years people could look at the things you believe in as incredibly backwards morally. The idea that YOUR morals are the first ones in human history to be "objectively correct" is hilariously arrogant. Human beings are not perfect. We can never make a perfect moral system, and there will always be disagreements. We are also incredibly hypocritical, which causes problems with the very idea of an "objective morality".
@@KaguroDraven First Of All,Big Talk For Someone With A Middle School Level Edgelord Profile Pic. As For Morality,I Did't Say Humans Were Perfect (GOD,I Did't Say That) Nor Did I Say EVERYTHING Right And Wrong Today Is The Objective Morality. What I SAID Was Some Things (Like,I Don't Know: Owning People?) Are Objectively Shitty Things To Do And If You Don't Agree Then That Just Objectively Makes You A Shitty Person (Not That I'd Be Surprised,Since You're Already Trying To Argue For It). If You Can't See The Problem With Starving Half The Population Over A Story,Then Kindly Go Fuck Yourself Because I Don't Have The Time To Waste On Someone So Stupid And I'm SURE That's Not The Only Horribly Stupid Thing You Believe (I'm Legit Betting You're A Nazi Sympathizer Or Something. Not Even Kidding And It Would't Surprise Me In The Least,Judging By How You Grudge Morality As A Whole) And,Again I Don't Have Time To Sit Here And Tell You How Stupid You Are After Every Replay. Later,Worthless Insect: Try Not To Hurt Yourself With Your Next (Very Much Ignored) Reply. Or Do. I Really Don't Give A Rat's Ass.
@@JT5555 So your immediate response to someone disagreeing with you is to throw personal insults, and to call them a Nazi sympathizer? That seems a rather extreme reaction to simple disagreement, well either that or you're a troll.
3:20 the Greek word used is "elpis" and while being translated as hope it actually fits the English word "expectation" better, making elpis either good (hope) or evil (fear). However, the fact that elpis or "expectation" stays in the jar does represent that humans will always be accompanied by expectation (elpis), unlike the "gods" who have nothing to fear or desire (hope for). Hope this makes sense!
The irony of having one of the most womanizing characters in all of fiction creating (by proxy anyway) women and having her being a malevolent entity is.... well ironic
Wait,so,let me get this straight. Women were made as a *punishment* for men,and if Prometheus didn't steal the fire,women wouldn't be made. So how did humans reproduce? Was it just Prometheus making more of them from clay? So if women,who were meant to be a *punishment* for men, weren't made,the entire human race would just die out?
I always thought fire had originated because Prometheus stole it, I didn't realise they already had it and Prometheus was just giving it back. Really paints that myth in a new light with Zeus being so petty
The Pip so are we just going to label everything as sexist now a days? It's an Ancient Greek mythos, different time different culture. Plus I think the story goes much deeper than just "women are evil" narrative and regardless of its sexist tones I think it's a great story overall (it's the archetypal story of humanity's fall from grace and how the hardships of life are the result of a vengeful god punishing humans of wrong doing).
Well the thing about it is that it IS sexist. The whole Ancient Greek civilization is really sexist. It's not a label, it is what it is. If you have the chance to read some other myths/stories, there is one that's really interesting about how husbands marry girls at a young age so they can "mold" them into the wife they want. ( Xenophon - Oikonomicus )
Pro0ohunter The reason why I made the presentation to the class was that I had to make a presentation relating to "social justice", and I really like greek mythology, so I found a way to be able to have my presentation involve that.
You say this may not have anything to do with Hesiod's love life, but I think you are underestimating the pettiness of ancient Greek story writers. I mean, look at how they portray their gods.
While the tale is undeniably regressive (duh, ancient greece), I think it has some strong redeeming features and interpretations that should not let go to waste. Pandora is literally all-gifted, which, even when seen as evil, puts her above the weak/uninteresting/agency-lacking female characters of other greek mythology; the traits that make her unappealing in greek society make her interesting to us, which is fascinating to me. Making love as the source of human suffering, kind of, is agreable at least. Also the Imagery of Pandora's Vase/Box/Whatever is pretty strong, with hope being everlasting regardless and all. And finally, the idea of someone created to make others miserable, of a predetermined evil of sorts, is quite tragic and makes, by today's standards, Pandora the major victim of the whole plot; exploring her psychology could lead to some amazing storytelling, showing off how one can be more than what others meant them to be. And I'm just scratching the surface, after all the best part about myths is overanalyzing them. P.s. How do you tag people on youtube again? @Overly Sarcastic Productions ? Does that work? P.p.s. Prometheus is amazing everytime.
Carlo Mazzeranghi In your mind, what kind of stories would you get from analyzing (this version of) Pandora that you wouldn't get from looking at similar characters? Despite the extravagance of her creation, she strikes me as very straight forward; she was created to bring evil/ misery into the world and enjoys doing so. She's more or less Maleficent, but beautiful and without magic powers. Don't get me wrong, I like Maleficent; characters with simple, pure motivations are appealing to me: Lord Dominator from Wander over Yonder, Saitama from One Punch Man, and most iterations of The Joker are also examples of this. Even by modern sensibilities I'd hesitate to say Pandora's a tragic character or even a victim, let alone the major victim. She's literally the only human who suffer inn this story. As a followup, there's nothing inherently wrong with a character fulfilling the ends for which they were ordained, so long as the relationship isn't abusive and person enjoys the role they've been given. Take the appliances from the Brave Little Toaster; on one hand all man-made machines must hide that are fully sentient and exist as solely as *tools* to be used by man. On the other hand, all machines (even *evil* ones) love humanity for unknowingly giving them life and genuinely find joy and fulfillment in doing what they were created for.
Abby The weird fangirl that's quite normal, youtube videos usually need to be interesting to be successful over other videos whereas school traps you, you don't have another choice so they don't bother trying and it's just easier to learn anything if it's interesting, any topic can be made interesting by the right teacher, youtube just creates a situation where the teachers who make the topic interesting get seen the most, school doesn't, getting through everything is more important to them than making sure the students care
I remember reading that there was an earlier variation of this myth, that her name Pandora meant 'she who sends up gifts,' and that initially she was a kind of Mother Goddess figure who offered gifts to mankind from a jar buried in the Earth. Hesiod, among others, reimagined the myth and later generations expanded upon those changes - including altering the jar into a box.
I always saw Pandora as the metaphor. I'd never even heard the 'ladies be evil' angle until today and it's super weird to me. I always saw Pandora herself as the jar(The first version I'd heard it in, but not Hesiod's I guess). As the first woman, Pandora kind of has to be considered the start of human reproduction. Zeus sending her to man struck me as giving them responsibility over their own future as a punishment. The boons from all the gods were given because humanity would need those traits to survive, and slipping them to Pandora in the guise of helping Zeus' plan made more sense than openly giving them to humanity(undercutting Zeus' punishment and risking his ire). Being literally built to have a (perhaps the first) brain, Pandora knowing what was about to happen makes sense. It's not like she could have stopped Zeus and she would've known her real job came after. That also explained why the 'evils' in the jar were things like sickness, dying, or worrying(the kind of stuff you wouldn't even know about as the god's mindless, sheltered, offering-cattle) and why Hope remained within the humanities possession/the jar(Pandora herself as anyway you wanna slice it women hold the hope of humanities future). Once I heard the box version, the curiosity angle felt odd to me(seen one eden parallel seen 'em all right?) but Pandora intentionally keeping Hope in the Box(/jar/self/humanities grasp) strengthened my original belief that Hope getting 'stuck' there in the first place was intentional.
That actually quite interesting and thoughtful. While yes it does contain some sexism given this Ancient Greece, however I hope this was Hesiod being more metaphorical
It's kinda ironic that Zeus confiscates all of Humanity's fire because of how butt-hurt he was about the sacrifices, since they need fire to burn those sacrifices in the first place, meaning Zeus just stopped them from being able to sacrifice to him at all.
It just figures that Aphrodite would decide how Pandora would look. I can see it now "Make her pretty, just not prettier than me dear."
Steven Flaningam why did i just read that comment in Rarety’s voice
@@joshuawilliams8921 it works
and its great
Like 700 jajajaa
"Make her pretty, just not prettier than me." I feel like this one line sums up Aphrodite pretty well as character 😂😂
I mean probably not the dear part as she didn't /want/ to marry Hephaestus.
All of the gods: *giving useful tricks and gifts to Pandora*
Ares: "once a month you will bleed, and the bleeding with cause you immense pain and rage. Your period is my gift"
Rest of the gods: "Dude wtf?"
Wall at least he isn’t a douche like the other gods!!! Not the greatest at gift giving sometimes, but isn’t a rapist and actually cares about his kids!!!!
Just another reason I hate Ares
Actually menstruation is the removal of dirty blood so Ares kind of gave a great gift 🎁
But I still hate ares
@@samookthaa cope
I'm starting to realize why Hades thought he got the worst job after the titans were defeated, if the first humans were literally immortal
I’ve never thought of it like that but you have a great point
Dude was basically a zookeeper, if Hades accepts animals that is.
Im sure he was like, everyone fucks up eventually
Dont think they were immortal they just lived for a very long time
Humans were never imortal, they were always mortal because humans and animals are creations of Prometheus and Epimetheus, sons of Iapetus the Titan of Mortality. Also everything that Gaia creates without Ouranos is mortal, like monsters and other creatures, and even humans.
And the golden humans lived in the Titan Age, also called the Golden Age. After that war humans were destroyed, and Prometheus needed to create new humans, but they were constantly nerfed in the silver, bronze and iron ages.
I like the version where Hestia agrees with Prometheus and lets him sneak off with fire because it it sort of counteracts the whole sexism thing and Hestia’s cool like that.
Yeah Hestia would definitely do that, she’s a wholesome bean who just wants to help people and do her own thing
@@pokeyscorpion8224 Would’ve definitely made for a better head god than Zeus. She’s even the first born!
hestia is underrated tbh
She would’ve been much better as ruler of olympus
It has nothing to do with women, Hestia is a goddess. Greeks always made a strong distinction between mortals and gods. They don't play by the same rules, they're not comparable.
"...Created to be evil and sexy, and make everything worse."
Wait, so, according to this story Zeus built an enticing convoluted trap (ladies) to ruin human lives, and then just continuously jammed his own face into it over the years?
Your King of Gods, everybody!
His face isn't the only thing he jammed into it.
Zeus should have his d*ck chopped off like Ouranos
Zeus literally made r/nicegirls
Trap was to go
Good
Zeus: *creates the woman to spite humanity*
Also Zeus: *keeps falling for the woman*
Me: "Congratulations, you played yourself"
Wolf Ancap lololol
Wait what about the female gods?
@@averysadsack1289 In this case they don't count as they are goddesses and they can fight back. Or this is as I see it.
I busted out laughing at this
He has a type
Zeus: "We're gonna punish you with the worst thing imaginable...You, but prettier, with smoother skin, and dangly bits in different places!"
Guys: "Uhh, thank you?"
VampCinder I like this, but I can’t show that cause you currently have 69 likes and that’s too perfect to mess up 😉
sonorasgirl too bad it’s already ruined lol
"Best punishment ever!! I mean, uhhh... Oh no, she's so hot and smart. Wait Zeus she's not for you!! My punishment!!!" And Zeus continued to bang his way through the generations.
I find this hilarious.
However, maybe the whole reason women got a brain is to be the punishment for man. There was suddenly a living organisms that could think for themselves and didn't serve man😂
Courtz Let’s be real. A smart *and* hot chick is something to die for. As I’ve almost done trying to impress girls. Isn’t being young awesome?
To be honest, I love this legend, purely for the irony that follows later with Zeus.
Here is a yikes interpretation. Since Zeus instigated this BS and takes credit for the creation of women, he feels entitled to his own creation, i.e. his property. Big Yikes
@@yiklongtay6029 Did you deadass use "yikes" unironically TWICE in one comment? Lmao
@@LordVader1094 I used to say it ironically. Then one day it became a regular part of my diction and I can't turn it off. Run before it's too late for you.
@@yiklongtay6029 Yikes
@@dakota6050 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
We lost a good person today
Funny that Zeus creates women as a punishment or whatever considering he basically spends the rest of his mythos strolling down to earth to get in their pants.
Well, the other gods had hands in it...except Hera, apparently.
Also, how did Hermes help create Pandora, the first woman, when his mother Maia was a mortal?
Well... dresses. But same concept.
Curt Clark shhhh ancient men liked to claim superiority. The answer was probably "because god magic"
Curt Clark
Temporal Mechanics.
Mini_Squatch I thought she was a nymph.
I love how Zeus has ended up falling for his own trap. Kinda poetic in a way
OMG! That’s the point of the story! We fall for pretty things which are bad for us! But you have to make it about sexism
@@alejandromolinac Sorry what? How did I make it about sexism?
That's schadenfreude baby!
@@ForrestFox626 I agree I think Zeus would totally be into that
@@alejandromolinac There's still sexism in it.
Greek Mythology: "Women don't exist yet."
Also Greek Mythology: "Aphrodite and Athena already exist."
PhazonOmega I know it’s a joke but, I already saw this wayyyy too much in the comment section and there was no way of knowing if they were joking or not so.....By women they meant Female humans, since Prometheus literaly sculpted the entire human race as male, goddesses, as non humans, weren’t counted in what they meant by ‘women’ in the context.
And hera demeter artemis
EXACTLY
@@phoebusapollo8365 but what about the fact that Hermes was born of a mortal woman and yet still somehow exists?
@Oniket My reply to Harry 👆
I'd totally free Prometheus if I ever had the chance. The dudes cool. And we kinda owe him.
Edit: I am aware he was freed. It was a hypothetical thought in which I was saying if I were there I would’ve attempted to help the guy out. Can’t be a pyro without fire, so I’m invested already!
I believe Heracles freed him somewhere during his labors.
@@WraythSkitzofrenik more power to him.
Mood
@@WraythSkitzofrenik did Prometheus actually eat the bird's liver?
@@WraythSkitzofrenik Yep, Heracles did free Prometheus, though it was during his stint with Jason and the Argonauts, not during the 12 labors.
"...But she's secretly a person underneath." funniest line I've heard all day.
Wait? Are you actually saying that females are humans too?
Gonzo the great yes they are you dupe!
@@tennesseelife2696 SARCASM
@@tennesseelife2696 Prove it!
@@gonzothegreat1317 WHAT!? NO THAT'S CRAZY
Fun fact: some versions pen “hope” as the worst of all the evils, as it’s only an illusion that things will get better and is preventing mortals from simply offing themselves to end their misery.
Isn’t mythology fun!
EDIT: I’m actually kind of terrified this has been upvoted so much. Please do not take this as advice and take this as an alternative reading of a popular story
More details please I’m curious!
Mythology isn't fun, and that's why we adopted religions
@@agungpriambodo1674 Religons and mythologies are just cults that got to big for their boots subdivided by current following
@@isitnotwrittenthat1680 a better comparative would be a cheer leading squad
YAY?!
"And make sure shes got nice dark eyelashes, too. She has to be able to flutter her problems away"
*im dead*
Karli Rose i wish i had powerful eyelashes like that
Karli Rose me too.
*Blinks*
*Creates a powerful tornado and kills 5% of the population*
-_- you laugh but some superstitious asshole probably believes it.
There are still entire areas in this world where they believe a woman cannot physically let down her hair without causing catastrophe(or "being a witch"- not the religious groups that parts of cheerfully embrace the ill begot moniker either--- ppl who are just like them but just wanted to wear there hair down)... So... I've got no faith in humanity to assume there isn't some idiot who doesn't genuinely believe fluttering eyelashes are disastrous.
AuroraLalune I understand people are like this due to tradition. They kill children due to tradition. I in no way wanted to offend or support this topic.
Pandora: "Why am I evil again?"
Hesiod: "BEGONE THOT!"
Prometheus: Basically humanity's best bro.
Brometheus
TheThreadWeaver Why didn't Humanity just worship him instead of the petty lecherous storm God who usually fucks humanity (both figuratively and *very* literally)
Inquisitor Thomas
Because Zeus had a very fragil ego and would hit you with a lighting bolt if you didn't pay him tribute, on the other hand Prometeus was like "No is fine, I don't need anything, you guys are cute and funny"
Also it would seem(?) as if Zeus is the stronger of the two, seeing how he was confidently able to chain up put Prometheus and just confidently leave him there.
+Inquisitor Thomas
Because Zeus is petty, he punished humanity because Prometheus wanted humans to be able to eat.
Promehtheus was also a Titan, not a god, I don't think they got worshiped.
I keep imagining Athena and Ares playing chess in the corner of Olympus and every time Ares loses and flips the table.
We all keep imagining that.
This is defiantly what they do on their off time
Athena: I take your Rook with my Bishop
Aries: I execute my knight in front of the rest of my army for failing to defend my Rook
Athena: That’s not how- you know what fine
And that sparked the war between sparta and athens
Ares*
“Like natural lifespans and childbirth and Swedish Fish.”
I died.
-_____-
Well, we got the Swedish Fish back at some point, so suck it, pagan gods!
I mean, how can we NOT consider Pandora evil? She gave us Swedish Fish!
@@Zakanuva No, I think the point was that the pagan gods inflicted the horrors of Swedish Fish on us.
CoryxKenshin: *TRIGGERED*
Zeus: "How can i punish men i know i'll create woman"
Men and Women: *Build loving, meaningful relationships with each other*
Zeus: "Well shit..."
Men and Women: *Build loving, healthy relationships with each other*
*AND THEN ALONG CAME ZEUS!*
@@drunk_famasmf5135 He hurled is thunderC-
@@ilikethebluesky101-bolt! He zapped!
Women: *are homosexual*
Zeus: Well, shit.
@@imthebossmermaid3648let’s be honest, that wouldn’t stop him from
I just realize:
Prometheus and Epimetheus
Prologue and epilogue
Prometheus means someone who thinks before he acts whilst epimetheus means someone who thinks after he acts.
Pro literally means before and epi after while metheus is basically thinking/thought.
Epimetheus is Captain Hindsight
@@unflexian that's almost literally his name, and Prometheus is foresight.
@@Mysteri0usChannel I know, but captain hindsight is a south park reference.
Zeus: *Makes a poor choice*
Zeus: Am I the one to blame? Surely not, it must be Humanity's fault!
Zeus: Well, _someone_ has to pay for it. And it's not gonna be me since I'm already the victim!
Yahweh/Jehovah: Ooh, that's a smart move. I gotta use that!
@@michaeliv284 This is about mythology .
Smart, attractive woman: exists
Ancient Greece: aaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Your profile pic sells the comment
Literally my gay ass:
Unless you're Odysseus's wife
What’s funny is in ancient Athens Greek woman were not even allowed to leave their own houses unless accompanied by their male spouse. The Greeks views of women were quite interesting aren’t they...
@@ArdenSeccoriAzucar The Spartans treated them different too though. Don't just lump all of them together.
I *never* understood how the evils *escaping* the urn means they're now plaguing mankind, but Hope *staying* in the urn means mankind still has it/can feel it. Evil is affecting mankind by being out of the urn, but Hope is affecting mankind by being *in* it? *That's a complete contradiction!*
The urn could be symbolic for humanity. Pandora opening the urn and letting out the enumerated evils upon the world would then represent how most of the causes of human suffering are self-inflicted by vices like greed, wrath, pride, et al., and lust (connection to Pandora, the first female human, opening the urn). In other words our internal vices cause misery for those external to us. Hope staying in the jar would represent how hope is the one characteristic of all of humanity that doesn't primarily affect those around us.
I've never heard anyone use this explanation, but it sounds like a plausible theory to me.
I heard a different version where the box contained *good* stuff, all the gifts from the gods, and when she opened it they escaped and humanity was left with nothing but Hope that still remained in the box.
There were two kinds of "hopes" in ancient Greece, and though there was no consensus on which one it was, it could also have been the bad kind of hope, the one where a person foolishly hopes for things to go their way when all evidence points otherwise. A deception they cast upon themselves.
Perhaps Hope stayed in the jar because - unlike all the evils which tend to actively hunt us down - Hope can only be acquired through seeking it out yourself. Hope is not merely felt; it can only ever be *found* - and even if you've already lost everything else, Hope stays behind, patiently waiting for someone to decide she's worth searching for.
I heard it as it not being hope in the urn but rather foreboding - the knowledge of whats to come. It staying in the box meant humanity could delude itself into thinking things could get better when they can't, which is...
I don't understand how it takes a lot of cunning and guile to open an evil box
A pithos. The box was not gifted to the Greeks before the lesser known Titan,Boxitheus,gave it to humanity. He was punished by being locked into a box forever.
I think the implication was that the box was essentially Pandora's dowry, and its evils could only be gifted upon humanity once Epimetheus accepted her amongst their midst. Thus, not only did she need to be beautiful enough to be enticing for humanity, but she also needed to be cunning enough to set Epimetheus' worries at ease despite literally being a gift from Zeus, the guy who Epimetheus was warned against accepting gifts from. (I mean sure he was kind of an idiot so it wasn't super difficult, but it still takes a bit of cunning to convince the guy to specifically do the thing his notoriously smart brother specifically told him not to do.)
Not to open a Box but because Smats + Woman = Evil = Dangerous
It's all about who gets the box? What's in the box? How much is what's in the box worth?
It's...
A LOCKED BOX!
Part of the reason why Pandora being beautiful yet evil and cunning is such a big deal is also because in ancient Greece, people, especially philosophers and artists, used to consider that there's a clear connection between physical beauty and virtue, and by default, if you were physically ugly you must be evil XD
Poor Hephaestus.
Yeah, Ancient Greeks took a huge deal with it comes to beauty to a ridiculous standards, to the point there's a saying *Kaloi k'agathoi* ("the Beautiful and the Good"). Phryne is a good historical example of this. She was a courtesan who's put on trial for committing blasphemy against Aphrodite, but she defend herself by citing her beauty basically saying "why would you condemn me to death if the gods gave me this beauty", and then the judges let her off free.
Choco Zoe wait tell me were that story or news came from?
I tried looking everywere for that story
You mean the courtesan Phryne? You can easily find her story anywhere on the internet and her Wikipedia page mentioned it.
Choco Zoe oh okay thanks!!!
Thank you for mentioning what RED chose to ignore so she can go on a "reee men are the real evil and enslaved their wives" tangent that has no actual historical basis.
2020 is just Pandora Doing A Box Reveal
no, she just found a bigger box
PANDORA: (leans back from turning the webcam on) "Hey guys! It's ya girl Pandora here, and today I've got a special treat for you all--this magical mystery jar from Zeus Enterprises! I can't wait to open this thing, I got it yesterday but my HDMI cable went out and I had to go pray to Hephaestos to make me a new one...anyway, let's get to it!" :)
..now I kind of want, like, a web series or maybe cartoon where famous mythological characters host various types of web shows. :P And it could tie into their myths/personalities...like, Hercules could have a workout program, Thor is all about hardware (hammers!), Aphrodite is the dating expert...
This is an incredibly underrated comment well done
@@Heothbremel thanks
Yep
As a dude myself, I read a bit of Hesiod for my World Mythology class a while back, and honestly... nah, you're spot on. Dude was the definition of a misogynistic bitter incel with too much time on his hands.
Same with whoever it was that wrote the story of Adam and Eve in the Bible. Except unfortunately people don't see the Bible as mythology .
@@benapeh854 As someone who identifies as pseudo-Christian (I believe in a God-esque entity that is omni-benevolent, a just afterlife, and I think Jesus of Nazareth had some kind of divine inspiration from the aforementioned God-esque entity), I 100% see the Old Testament as mythology, and I know several Christians who think the same. The far-right self-righteous maniacs who spout nonsense like "God hates the gays!" and "Abortion is murder!" are a very vocal minority of Christianity.
@@drafo789 "Vocal minority " isn't really true. At least considering Christians worldwide
@Ben Apeh I mean, if I remember correctly, the Bible itself doesn't actually cast more judgment on Eve than on Adam for eating from the apple first. God punishes both of them for breaking his rules, not putting more blame on one than on the other.
It was later People interpreting the book that came up with the BS reasoning of 'Eve ate from the apple first and gave it to Adam and therefore she and all women are totally to blame for this'.
Mythology is only called as such because the people believing in it died.
If Hesiod's definition of evil is sexy and sly, then I'm certain that this was inspired by the time he was ripped off by a hooker.
And if that was the case, then Hesiod's life is best suited to be a satire.
David Taylor XD this comment needs more likes
What about Hesiod's ankle fetish? I had to read the Theogony for a class, and Hesiod literally compliments four different goddesses in the text as "one with... nice ankles." *Careless whisper intensifies*
Or how about Hesiod's complete lack of understanding bee biology when he tried to say men are like buzy honey bees while the lazy women drones stay in the hive! I'll let you figure out why that analogy falls apart completely. 🤣
I want that to be a play
Hesiod was an incel.
Hera: Hey Zeus you wanna hear your worst nightmare?
Zeus: Uhh, I highly doubt you know-
Hera: A smart beautiful woman with personally
Zeus: *Screeches*
lol
He absorbed the last one into his own head.
@@tomsautocadstudio6446 What about Hera?
@@michaeliv284 considering she never just kills the results of zeues exploits instead just tests them till she gets board I don't the she's that smart.
@@tomsautocadstudio6446 could be sadism or a lack of pragmatism more so than direct intelligence but that is entirely up for debate and interpretation
Sexism existed Mainly in Athens. Remember Greece was a collection of warring city-states. Records show that the biggest name in gender equality back then was actually Sparta, they let women be single own property be educated and even get male-dominated jobs. That's why Athens and Sparta were such big rivals.
Agreed.
It certainly is a factor, but there's a bit more to the rivalry than just the two cities states attitudes regarding women's rights
Red will always aposse blue, North will always aposse South and West will always aposse East. I guess it's balance?🤔 Sorry I've been playing ACO. Sparta, is red and Athens is blue.
To say that two states were rivals because of one single issue is a gross oversimplification, and only makes sense in fiction, in reality there are a lot of reasons states have rivalries between them (economics, religion, culture, military, alliances, territorial expansion), states tend to pick out one single issue and use it an excuse to escalate preexisting rivalries from other factors, as for why Sparta and Athens were rivals, the factors include cultural differences (Spartans were a blunt and simple with words, while Athenians loved their words, just to give an idea), military (Sparta being the foremost military power of Ancient Greece, thought Athens the major naval power of its day, something the Spartans never quiet got the hang of), economy (Athens was powerful economically while Sparta's economic footprint on Greece as a whole was minimal), and alliances/territorial expansion (Sparta dominated the Peloponnese through alliances, Athens is also very close to that peninsula, putting it in the cross-hairs of being conquered or forced into the alliance under Sparta, on the other hand, Athens was an expanding empire, thus making it a threat to Sparta's alliance)
@@weik-2936 I can see how my wording may come across as saying that was the only reason, but I meant to say that that was a reason, not the reason. I'm sorry that my wording was off I could edit it to be more clarified.
Can we take a moment to contemplate that there is a high chance some woman played Hesiod like a violin thousands of years ago and we still got a register of how much salt was left afterwards?
this, this right here, is why i keep comments on recent first
@@N.I.A23 lol you’re a fucking incel stuck 3000 years behind the rest of humanity shut the fuck up
@@litewavegames3967 how am I a incel? Because I recognise those who are below me???
@@N.I.A23, if you naturally were above others, people would grovel at your feet. However, that does not appear to be the case
@@Doublemonk0506 I'm not above people. Just above these talking cows.
Athenian woman: "Why are Spartan women treated better?"
Spartan queen: "Because Spartan women give birth to REAL men."
*invents the mic just to drop it*
Queen sparta original Becky vs Athenian women soyboy wranglers
Sparta: All women are queens
Athens: If she breathes, she's a thot
@@vladprus4019 this is EXPLICITLY NOT how any of that worked. tha spartans didnt think a whole lot more of their women, they just had to do more because the men were always somewhere fighting uprisings and wars
@@DMurphyApple That was a joke.
@@DMurphyApple OBVIOULSY ancient Greeks didn't had mentality simmilar to modern memes.
I've heard that, in some versions, hope is the worst thing to come out of the box. It's thought of as a falsehood and illusion, simply preventing people from ending their lives and freeing themselves from the other evils. Which I'm going to put under the "Yikes!" category and move on.
Hmmm, username checks out.
Wasn't it also in some batman film, then the worst suffering is having hope that suffering may end.
Nooo, that's too dark, I prefer the version where it's a good thing😭
Sounds like a solid shit take from cynical assholes. Happy to reject it too
well thats fucked
What I don't get, is that if hope was left, then that means it wasn't unleashed onto the world. What does it even matter if it's still in the jar/box? Or maybe 'hope is an illusion' _because_ she never let it go? So we have all the evil stuff without the counteractive force that's supposed to balance it out.
THE INTRO
“I apologize in advance for what the comment section is gonna look like”
Quite shockingly the comments section here is pretty fucking tame, especially compared to a lot of other prior videos. Christ, the one where she refuses to draw Muhammed alone..
Yep
too*
It's zeus dude fucked everything he made that's why it's tame
I made the like count 666
“She’s beautiful.”
“Oh, cool.”
“And smart.”
“GET IT AWAY!!!”
I swear Athena is the cutest deity in this entire series.
Waifu for laifu. And she would't lay with you even If she was real, so we're losing nothing!
Dreamwalker ikr
Do NOT let Aphrodite hear you say that. I agree with you, but if the goddess of love finds out......based off the myths about her, well it won't end well.
Hestia is bestia.
@@barrybend7189 man of culture right here
"Pandora promptly dumps the contents of her jar full of evil and humanity is immediately stricken with all kinds of nasty things, like natural lifespans and childbirth and *swedish fish* "
DEAD
I love Swedish fish :(
The gods have weird standards for what can be considered evil. I'm not even surprised, the one here believes mixing fabrics is evil.
What is the problem with swedish fish?
Natalie Bollert same I was about to comment that
Surströmming is the problem of swedish fish
I honestly didn't know of this version. The tale of Pandora i grew up with (and the one i prefer honestly), was about how great, nice and wonderful she was. In the version i knew (Before watching this one) she never wanted to hurt anyone, and was tricked to open the box, by the nasty evils inside, and felt guilt when she realized what she had just done.
This sounds more like Bible/Kuran version of events. I like greek one more.
Sounds more more like the washed-down version for kids. Like, Ariel.
Θανάτος of Death lol I think this is one of the few times I prefer the washed down version
Talia Terrell Nice. But I prefer the not washed-down version because I like the Greek myths with tragedy and heartbreak.
I prefer the one where she is told to never ever open the box for any reason, guaranteeing that curiosity gets the better of her eventually. It also explains why one thing didnt escape, as she closed the lid and trapped it inside.
Hermes : has a mom
Also Hermes: somehow takes part in crafting the first woman
Exsctly what I thought during the entire video
*The first human women
Well, Pandora was simply the first mortal woman. Hermes' mother was an immortal being.
His mom is one of the Pleiades, who are nymphs, not human.
Now if Dionysus had gotten in on the action, THEN it would have been confusing.
Legend has it that Zeus later took mercy on humanity and promised to henceforth make women bad at opening jars and boxes.
THIS IS THE REASON I NEED THOSE STUPID RUBBER PADS JUST TO GET TO MY F***** *JAM!?!??!?!?!?!? D:
The entirety of Humanity vs that damn jar of pickles: ua-cam.com/video/3JwlwqGtRyE/v-deo.html
That...explains way to much XD
Huh, no wonder my soda bottle caps were too hard to open after use! XD
I love/hate you for presenting such a plausible explanation. Take my surly, spiteful upvote.
On a much more positive note, apparently there are earlier versions of Pandora's story that tells a much different tale. In order to trick Prometheus's brother, who basically followed the family footsteps of protecting humanity from the gods, Pandora was presented as a bride along with her "box," containing all things good and useful to mankind. In essence, Zeus created the guise of a peace offering by presenting humans with forces of nature that formerly belonged to the gods, giving the power instead to them. Pandora, of course following the classic fatally curious flaw, opened the "box" and let loose all these things back into the hands of the gods, save one. Closing the lid in time, Pandora kept Hope within the box, and so to this day the power of hope still rests solely in our hearts.
It's a much better story than insinuating Hesiod's message that women let loose all things save for Hope, literally meaning that men have no hope against the evils of women.
@user-pq4fc1mc7q Crazy how many interesting gods, especially goddesses, were basically whitewashed by a bunch of incel greeks in later antiquity.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, what was that about Swedish Fish?
it's called "surströmming". It's the worst thing you'll ever taste, Trust me.
I myself mc fuckin love Swedish Fish and Swedish meatballs
Swedish fish are freaking excellent, not as good as German raspberries but still pretty good
Curry herring is freaking delicious. Especially with some snaps.
@ Madeleine Svensson There is an american candy named swedish fish. it kind of tastes like cherry.
that's what people are defending, not sturströmming.
I doubt anyone will defend sturströmming.
Speaking as a straight man who enjoys intelligent conversation with women, I find the idea of attractive + smart = EVIL to be HILARIOUS.
So... does this hatred of stories portraying you as pure evil mean I should *not* finish writing my fanfiction in which you're an evil overlord set to conquer the Earth?
They liked the comment but didn't tell you no directly...
...that must mean GO FOR IT!
Alexandre Brault fanfiction? You mean Red *Isn't* an evil overlord bent on world conquest?
It's not evil if you do it in style!
Grace Adams But was it Red or Blue who likes it?
faolan1686 DUN DUN DUN
Pandora's Box was apparently originally Pandora's...vase?
Pandora's Pithos
The Greeks didn't really have boxes. But they had a certain kind of vase that you could close with a lid, a pithos. The whole box idea comes mostly from painters and sculptors in the Renaissance.
The Greeks didn't have boxes but they had vases? How hard is it to make a box you literally just have to nail six pieces of wood together into a cube.
fraya1022 it depends on the artist really. In greek,we refer to the box as a box too(/kootee/), but well. As the 2 people before me said,it was neither a box nor a vase. It's an ancient greek thing that was made out of clay-
Hesiod originally referred to it as a jar- an analogy for a woman's womb.
The story of pandora is just one big "wife bad" boomer comic
Not just pandora, but also a lot of other stories, the amazons for an example iirc are formed because they hated their husbands who just made them cook and clean .
Sorry for bad english
every boomer is greek confirmed
In my mythology class we talked about a different interpretation. Because hope stayed in the jar, humanity can only ever experience false hope.
Interestingly, the version I hear of this has the inciting incident events switched around - Prometheus steals the fire, first, Zeus is huffy, but gets over it when he notices the humans burning meat as sacrifices to the gods. Still, Prometheus notices this is a really raw deal for humans, so does the tricking Zeus with the meat thing, and THAT gets Zeus mad enough that he chains Prometheus up and gets down to making Pandora.
Wonder if that impacts the rest of the story, any?
Well, it makes Prometheus look like he picked up a particularly sticky Idiot Ball, Zeus a Planck Length's less of an arse, and the other God(dess)(s) supportive family members.
Another version was Prometheus had wanted to give humans the best of the best (hint why humans are smarter and can walk on two legs) but his brother had already given claws and fangs to the animals without thinking to leave something for the humans. Promethus then decides to steal fire so humans can have the best weapon. Can't recall the full part of this but in order to get the fire it involved him tricking Zeus with the food.
Your version will just additionally implies that Zeus was a foodie
@@midnightgear2616 I mean, Zeus is also super full of the good old fashioned hubris, too - the whole point being that he was angry at being made to look stupid because someone pulled a fast one.
@@midnightgear2616 wat
Honestly I could use a full salt version of this. No trying to be neutral, just Red salting on a sexist myth.
Petition for red to make that version
I sign to the petition
That'd be fun! I want to see Red at full salt
Sign
@@taylor_green_9 yes
"Hope" is however also considered an evil in the mythology as it deceives mankind into believing (or hoping) for salvation instead of acting upon achieving it themselves.
TheVolcomDust thats pretty edgy and dumb, but then again a lot of myths have some BS.
But hope not only provides us aims but a motivation to attain those aims.
Yuwan and yet somehow less dumb than the standard version's "dumps out all the evils, so those are in the world, but hope doesn't come out so we have that too"...
The myth is a huge mess
@Yuwan
Different culture, different views.
But in a way it makes sense, instead of sitting on your arse hoping for things to get better (not like the Gods would let it), you go out and make things better yourself.
Hope can be both a Good and Bad thing. It allows for the idea of a better future being possible while also creating situations with major decisions being made on hope alone, which is a very weak foundation by itself.
"And humanity is immediately stricken with all kinds of bad things like natural lifespans, childbirth and Swedish fish"
People need to talk about this more.
I agree
Funny enough, childbirth wouldn't been a thing without Pandora/women.
I mean the goddess go through childbirth too, but you know.
I love Swedish Fish.
Your most controversial take in the video is your opinion of Swedish fish
It’s a good candy tho.
Swedish fish the candy or actual swedish fish dish?
@@lunariumaqua3033 the candy
Kartana or maybe just fish that live in Sweden
@@lunariumaqua3033 Or the freeze-dried fish that Scandinavians packed with them on every journey, used as trade goods and sometimes food. To become edible they had to be pulverised with a hammer then boiled or gummed for several hours. The challenge to cut down a tree with a herring in "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" could have been based on the Swedish dehydrated and cured fish that were harder than wood and retained a sharp edge until thoroughly soaked.
D I D Y O U J U S T D I S S S W E D I S H F I S H
I think she did *dusts off pitchfork* Anyone got a torch?
@Zara Basantez Might I have one? We need to get all Angry Villagers up in this shit.
Disclaimer: Do not harass or threaten people.
@Zara Basantez Wohoo! Fire!
*loads gun* Lets get her
Surströmming.
Zeus: hey epimetheus got a present
Epimetheus: what is it
Zeus: it's called a woman and it's totally great
Epimetheus: ok sure what could go wrong
Pandora: *yeets open box*
2:34 quotes like these are the reason why these episodes are so entertaining.
See, they lure you in as "Overly Sarcastic Productions", but their sarcasm actually has valid arguments underneath
Pandora: You coming out Lil’ guy?
Hope: Nupe
Pandora: Suit yourself
*Pandora:T H E N P E R I S H
Isn't hope the greatest evil of all
Prometheus flashback: "Do NOT, under ANY circumstances, take ANY gifts from Zeus"
Epimetheus, taking a gift from Zeus: "WE'LL TAKE HER!"
Prometheus and Epimetheus' names literally mean forethought and afterthought respectively.
Off topic, but Red absolutely did that Bon Jovi song justice!
Harper Delahaye definitely
I know, right?
I can't believe how good she is at singing. She's so talented
Yes she did 🥇
"Like natural lifespans and childbirth"
"And Swedish Fish"
*Swedish Fish are a blessing upon humanity, how dare you!*
"... and Swedish Fish"
Me: *Looks at the bag I'm eating from*
Me: oh
Red: Humanity was then cursed with nasty things like natural lifespans and childbirth and Swedish Fish!
Me: *gAsP* WHAT DID YOU JUST SAY ABOUT SWEDISH FISH?!?!
As a 15 year old girl from Greece I just want to say...
My country's history is freaking weird.
I think you were meant to say mythology, greek history is quite normal.
Cinos the Dense potato Same thing
Weird is better than boring though..
MsKitkatluver123 That's not true.
When I was at elementary school I used to call Mythology history and so did everyone else.
Now I'm just stuck with it.
Helen Kenway It would be a very interesting world if the myths of all the gods were considered actual history... Not that I’m saying it’s bad on your part to call mythology history.
There are other versions of the story where the jar breaks accidentally, or where the husband is the one to open it. It’s awhile later in late antiquity and the Middle Ages that she becomes someone who’s insatiably curious. I have to believe that the later characteristics of Pandora are heavily influenced by Eve.
jar easier to knock over than box. I rthought some versions have the box being good things.
Gonna take a wild guess that Pandora was the name of Hesiod's ex...
Senaneone probably
As clever a guess as anything Athena could come up with -that's a lie-
Senaneone Oh my god I'm dead!
Bible Media You goddamn genius lol
That what I'm thinking.
I know I'm an athiest and all, but I'm still confused at how they managed to explain away the fact that female goddesses already existed alongside male gods, yet women are some special "gift" to humanity which didn't exist yet. Also, I want to hear the rest of prometheus's story. And is this the end of Pandora's story? did nothing special happen after she unleashed all that evil?
Also if zeus is the Head-god, how come literally everytime I hear about him it's him fucking with humanity to make life harder, why would anyone worship him?
Because a human and a god are not the same: that's why there are demi-gods, half-gods. They're different breeds of sentient beings.
@@IggyTthunders *sapient
@@brandonvelde5774 Sentient and sapient, but, yeah.
Why worship him if he just makes your life harder? Well...ever hear of the Kalydonian Boar?
The story explains why there's bad shit in the world. So that's what happens after she opened the box... We have to live fucked up lives.
Loved the accoustic cover at the end. you're singing voice is really beautiful.
Brandon Taylor The song is very fitting to the story too, well played 😙
Hesiod: "all women are queens! :D"
Women: **betrays him**
Hesiod: "Okay so you know what you little shit-"
Also Hesiod: If she breathes, SHE IS A THOT!
This story does have “venting from a rejection or break up and your in dark place” vibe
I don't think Hesiod ever believed that women are queens, sadly. So no. 😔
Pandora the explorer?
Pandora's Lunch Box, look it up.
KiwiFruit Yes. Just yes.
I'm a map, i'm a map
Boxer, no boxing!
get out
Epimetheus: But bro, she's suuuper hot
Prometheus: Bro, I told you to 'liver' alone
Everyone: ayyyy
122yotam this comment needs to be pinned at the top
Thank you, I'm glad my de-Liver-y was on point
122yotam pls stop i can't *stomach* any more organ puns
I'd tell another organ joke, but I don't have the **guts**
122yotam I wish we could keep this up longer but I'm terrible at puns so *ileum* to the professionals
2:07 "Time to figuratively and LITERALLY SCREW MANKIND." LOLOL
3:11
"This is a bad call, as Pandora promptly dumps out the contents of her jar full of evil, and humanity is immediately stricken with all kinds of nasty things, like natural lifespans and childbirth and Swedish Fish."
Dang, Red. Way to call a whole type of candy out. But...
I don't disagree
Edit: also, wouldn't hope staying in the jar mean that humanity will NEVER have hope?
I used to puzzle about the hope thing too, until I read somewhere that hope staying in the jar meant that it's under humanity's *control*, rather than it flying around every which way.
Some take that as the meaning actually...dark, very very dark.
Zeus, you hippocrite. You made women to mess up men's lives and then you can't stop going around falling in love with them? Shame on you.
Phantom Owlet this why I love Hades,
Zeus: creates women to fuck men's lives
also Zeus: constantly causes trouble because he loves women too much
oh the turntables
I'd like to think that was a bit of poetic justice against him and the gods for allowing that to happen. Before Pandora's box the gods payed relatively little attention to human, but after the punishment of the evils humans seemed to become all the more fascinating to them.
To me that just makes him the dopey pantomime villain who falls for his own trap
I wonder how many artists fall for their art?
I hope you guys don't stop making these
Me too I LOVE these videos❤️
Did the Athenians keep women on a separate floor/denying them property rights because they believed that women with brains/power were all pure evil, or did they invent a myth saying that women with brains/power were pure evil to justify the fact they keeping women on a separate floor/denying them property rights?
@@Ambulatory_Viscount Obvious bait is obvious
As far as he mythos goes the Pandora myth came before the Athens
Well, who is "they" in this scenario? This is one story, and a lot of Greek myths are only believed as scripture by the cults they concern.
@@IggyTthunders There is little doubt that ancient Greek society was a massively sexist patriarchal one that kept women in low regard and structurally and personally oppressed them badly, even by the standards of their time.
@@olenickel66
"There is little doubt"
No doubt, huh? How very academic. (Actually, if it's the social sciences, it is "academic.")
"Greek society was a massively sexist patriarchal one that kept women in low regard and structurally and personally oppressed them badly, even by the standards of their time."
"Even by the standards of their time." Are you an expert in ancient European cultures, by any chance? Because that's a pretty broad assumption: especially when you take into account women have, as far back as recorded history, always been prioritized in western society: hence why men protect, provide and even die for them. That doesn't sound, logically, like someone held in low regard: not the way you seem to be implying. Women were infantalized, yes, but but dehumanized. You don't protect people who you consider less than human. You protect children, of course, more than anyone or anything, but, you don't let them vote: anymore than you let them go to war. And you are HARDLY talking about Spartan women, who were voting citizens, were educated extensively, and were trained as the last line of defense; when all the men were dead.
Zeus is the kind of guy who finds out a kid was taking advantage of a loophole on the computer and decides to punish the whole class for it
Kinda funny how the Ancient Greek idea of an evil character is giving them an ounce of depth
I always thought this story was super hilarious... I mean, I'm sure it's based in a lot of bad practices with women in greek city states and such... But it is pretty amusing. Even if I don't agree with what it implies about women. I think the over exaggerated implication is kind of funny, when you really look at what Greeks seriously thought.
Are we just going to overlook heroes like Theseus and Odysseus? Paragons who were paragons because they had brains and brawn? It works both ways.
@@IggyTthunders Theseus was definitely not smart considering his little misadventure with Pirithous.
Herakles would make more sense to mention, seeing as none of his myths actually portray him as a colossal idiot.
I mean Ares is pretty one-note and also villainized
Red's constant insistence to take her retelling with a grain of salt because she retold it with the Black Sea (Paraphrasing) actually makes me trust this retelling more: She admits that she was upset by the extreme sexism in the story but she admits that this may have effected the reliability of the retelling, but since she recognised this and put aside her bias as much as possible I believe that makes this more reliable. It is extremely impressive that she admits her bias and attempts to put it aside when the story is written by a two thousand year old precursor of the average male on the internet when the word 'feminism' is mentioned. The story literally claims that women were put on Earth as punishment for Prometheus' 'slights' against Zeus.
I would really like to see a miscellaneous myths episode on the Epic of Gilgamesh, please, and if you ever branch out to poetry could you please do Percy Shelley's Ozymandias.
thank you.
"It is extremely impressive that she admits her bias and attempts to put it aside when the story is *written by a two thousand year old precursor of the average male on the internet when the word 'feminism' is mentioned.* "
Woah there. That's some not-too-light sexism yourself, friend (you're implying the average man is sexist).
The Greeks' opinions on women aside, the majority of complaints about feminism (as a movement), are entirely valid.
I wouldn't compare him to just men who don't like feminism, I would rather compare him to the MGTOW movement.
**Woah there. That's some not-too-light sexism yourself, friend (you're implying the average man is sexist).
The Greeks' opinions on women aside, the majority of complaints about feminism (as a movement), are entirely valid.** not the average man, just the average online man (or woman, lets be real here) that has an issue with anything that has even a whiff of feminism how ever slight on it and gets bitterly triggered and nasty at the "offender." And also **not all** complaints against feminism are "entirely" *valid* some are valid criticisms (that even I can acknowledge and agree with), and others are obviously motivated by ignorance or hate. (waits to be emphatically reminded how feminists, do the same thing...)
So, here's what got me on this: I have always heard that what zeus actually did was create women to temper man, not punish them. The versions I'm familiar with talk of giving women the gift of wisdom and intellect to balance out man because apparently a lot of greek myths have strong dudes and smart women or something...
More likely to trust her retelling but, that was how I originally read that myth. But I also read it on wikipedia.
WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT... So Zeus got mad about sacrificing shenanigans, so he took away fire, which is quite integral to the whole sacrificing the food thing... LOGIC
This is Zeus. He could've kept his wife from kicking his ass and that of his progeny if he'd just stopped raping human women. But noooo.
I don't remember Hera kicking Zeus ass anywhere in the greek mythos. As far as I know she focused her anger on his bastard children because there was nothing she could do against her husband.
eh, Hera normally does not kick his ass as much as play the occasional trick on him. Normally by trying to distract him with sexiness at inconvenient times, like the Trojan War,.
Lol yeah
“She’s hot but also smart and evil”
I love her already
I mean, I've also come across non-mythological ancient Greek texts that insisted that the only true love was the love between two men. Not because the Greeks were all incredibly homo-erotic (well, they kind of were, but they were just kind of universally erotic), but because the author believed that women were somehow incapable of that sort of depth of connection. The ancient Greeks made a lot of progress in societal development, but gender equality was *not* a part of that progress. Women were often treated as livestock who could talk.
That's bad.
I swear, men have had their egos threatened by women since the beginning of time. Why. Capable, headstrong goddesses like Athena and Artemis and renowned real-life scholars like Hypatia are evidence that the Ancient Greeks knew on at least SOME level that women were people and not just one-note evil harpies all day, everyday, so just. Fucking why. Think of how much more advanced humanity would be if half our population wasn't systematically oppressed for several millennia.
I wish we had time travel so we could see just where and how this harrowing, long-persisting vitriol towards women originated :/
@@Ambulatory_Viscount Please, tell us more about how your mommy issues are in any way relevant to the rest of half the world's population, oh wise guru of women. In GREAT detail, if you're able.
you're either a Lv. 2 troll or a straight dumbfuck. To your fortune, it's pretty much impossible to tell the difference between the two on the internet, so you get points for authenticity either way.
@@rueenglish9328 If you were curious,this mindset that "men are better than women" probably originated from the fact that men could do manual labor better and were mostly hunters,while women were gatherers who gathered fruits and stuff. Or maybe something else entirely,you never know,the universe is a strange place.
@@inanjarif1388 yeah, intellect being the basis of worth for the majority of the population is actually a fairly recent development. Before most of the population (commoners and such who needed to perform manual labor to survive) valued physical strength and endurance, and as such women were generally viewed as inferior (technically true I guess, but let's not go there), while in the modern day you need brain power more than muscle power, and since men and women are equal in that sexism has been slowly eroded away.
hm, what physical advantages do women have?... (Looks at childbirth) pain tolerance?
The whole "Hope stays in the jar" metaphor never really made sense to me. Like, wait, all of the bad shit got let out of the jar, and therefore now belongs to humanity, but Hope stays in the jar, and therefore also belongs to humanity? All aboard the S.S. Mixed Metaphor, and don't forget to fasten your seatbelt and locate the exit nearest to you, because it's going to be a bumpy ride.
I have always found this deeply puzzling.
Remember that to the Ancient Greeks, Hope was an EVIL, it represented the Spark of Hubris, the HOPE that Mortals might Have a Chance at Equaling the Gods themselves. and as I recall it was left in as a simple matter of Giving Humanity the CHOICE as to if they wanted to release it or not... Considering how many heroes/monsters have the Flaw of Hubris, you can guess which choice was made...
KG Motte
That makes a lot of sense. Thank you. It's also possible that hope isn't a perfect translation of the original word and concept.
KG Motte
Okay, so according to Wikipedia, Hesiod didn't explicitly say what Hope staying in the jar was meant to symbolize, so it's open to interpretation. That said, I'm pretty sure from context that Hope is supposed to be a positive quality, and that it staying in the jar is SUPPOSED to represent that it belongs to mankind. Thinking on it, I guess one interpretation could be that Hope being contained in the jar makes it something that mankind can control; thus while death, disease, etc. happen to you whether you like it or not, hope is something you have to choose.
EDIT: Apparently, there is some lost-in-translation nonsense with the word hope, so my interpretation may be way off.
Sean Murphy
Can I be first mate?
"...and Swedish fish."
Ah yes, the greatest catastrophe to strike mankind of all catastrophes.
Honestly, I read a retelling of Pandora's tale when I was a kid and I didn't understand it. Or, well, maybe I understood it too much. I always thought Zeus was being kind of a jerk (like usually), wanting to punish humanity for that fire thing with Prometheus, but by making like if it was Pandora's fault. Like, "hey, take this mystery box, don't open it maybe" and Pandora, as a human, said "but what's inside and why are you giving it to me?" and Zeus all like "just don't open it I have to make at least four new demi-gods, see ya". Of course she is gonna open it! Everybody would! And, knowing Zeus, maybe if Pandora decided to not open the box, he would make her fall and make the box open itself with the hit, because lol.
Zeus’ thought process for creating Pandora probably went something like this: Zeus (thinking): Ok, so I need to think of a way to punish humanity for getting fire back, hmmm....
Hera: Zeus! Did you sleep with Mnemosyne NINE TIMES and impregnate her with the Muses? Why can’t you go five minutes without cheating on me?
Zeus: Bingo! Why should I be the only one to suffer?
For the love of god someone please make an independent version of the "You Give Love A Bad Name" cover
You in an alternate universe I agree! Red really I love your contents but your voice is what lingers all day in my head. I wish we could hear the hole song..
It should be a patreon perk to hear the full cover of the songs she sings.
Please please PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!
Yes! After this episode I had it stuck in my head.
ua-cam.com/video/5hYrvZGVcHs/v-deo.html i just had to do one cut....
It sounds like stories like this were made to explain and rationalize why society treated women the way they did.
Also keep in mind that we are judging a ancient culture base on modern societal standards and the ancient greeks probably ask us. "Why are your women not subservient to you (with the exception of Sparta)?" "Why arn't you more gay or bi sexual?" "Why did you make slavery illegal?"
Our simple answer to those questions would be "stuff happened, we started to feel differently about how we did things and Society changed."
Livebearer Fancier thank you.
Right And Wrong Exists No Matter The Culture Or Era: Women Are Not Subservient Because Most People Have Realized How Stupid It Is To Expect That Based On Nothing But Gender,We're Not More Gay/Bi Because Christianity Became A Big Deal And Made People Think It Was't Ok And Slaves Are Illegal Because Most People Figured Out That It's Wrong To Own A Another Human (Kinky Sexy Times Aside). The Morality Was Always THERE: It Just Took WAY Too Long For People To Realize It. I Think It's Totally Fair To Judge A Time/Culture Based On Things That Are Objectively Right And Wrong.
@@JT5555 First of all, caps-lock is not in fact cruise control for cool.
Secondly how are you so certain what you believe in right now is the "objective" right and wrong? In 1, 2, 3-hundred years people could look at the things you believe in as incredibly backwards morally. The idea that YOUR morals are the first ones in human history to be "objectively correct" is hilariously arrogant.
Human beings are not perfect. We can never make a perfect moral system, and there will always be disagreements. We are also incredibly hypocritical, which causes problems with the very idea of an "objective morality".
@@KaguroDraven First Of All,Big Talk For Someone With A Middle School Level Edgelord Profile Pic.
As For Morality,I Did't Say Humans Were Perfect (GOD,I Did't Say That) Nor Did I Say EVERYTHING Right And Wrong Today Is The Objective Morality. What I SAID Was Some Things (Like,I Don't Know: Owning People?) Are Objectively Shitty Things To Do And If You Don't Agree Then That Just Objectively Makes You A Shitty Person (Not That I'd Be Surprised,Since You're Already Trying To Argue For It). If You Can't See The Problem With Starving Half The Population Over A Story,Then Kindly Go Fuck Yourself Because I Don't Have The Time To Waste On Someone So Stupid And I'm SURE That's Not The Only Horribly Stupid Thing You Believe (I'm Legit Betting You're A Nazi Sympathizer Or Something. Not Even Kidding And It Would't Surprise Me In The Least,Judging By How You Grudge Morality As A Whole) And,Again I Don't Have Time To Sit Here And Tell You How Stupid You Are After Every Replay. Later,Worthless Insect: Try Not To Hurt Yourself With Your Next (Very Much Ignored) Reply. Or Do. I Really Don't Give A Rat's Ass.
@@JT5555 So your immediate response to someone disagreeing with you is to throw personal insults, and to call them a Nazi sympathizer? That seems a rather extreme reaction to simple disagreement, well either that or you're a troll.
3:20 the Greek word used is "elpis" and while being translated as hope it actually fits the English word "expectation" better, making elpis either good (hope) or evil (fear).
However, the fact that elpis or "expectation" stays in the jar does represent that humans will always be accompanied by expectation (elpis), unlike the "gods" who have nothing to fear or desire (hope for).
Hope this makes sense!
This video offends me...
Swedish Fish are amazing.
PrimevalDragon I know right? I wish I had a bag of Swedish Fish right now.
The irony of having one of the most womanizing characters in all of fiction creating (by proxy anyway) women and having her being a malevolent entity is.... well ironic
Wait,so,let me get this straight. Women were made as a *punishment* for men,and if Prometheus didn't steal the fire,women wouldn't be made. So how did humans reproduce? Was it just Prometheus making more of them from clay? So if women,who were meant to be a *punishment* for men, weren't made,the entire human race would just die out?
@David Larsson Ok thanks!
Think of the Dwarves in Tolkien, which originally just popped out of the ground.
See they invent women but there were already goddesses in Olympus, sooooo what’s up with that? Wouldn’t they have made women out of clay the same way?
Gods aren't humans, so human rules do not apply.
Kaza ddum so the Goddesses aren’t women
I always thought fire had originated because Prometheus stole it, I didn't realise they already had it and Prometheus was just giving it back. Really paints that myth in a new light with Zeus being so petty
I just finished my presentation about how sexist the Pandora myth is for English class, and THEN you upload this.
The Pip so are we just going to label everything as sexist now a days? It's an Ancient Greek mythos, different time different culture. Plus I think the story goes much deeper than just "women are evil" narrative and regardless of its sexist tones I think it's a great story overall (it's the archetypal story of humanity's fall from grace and how the hardships of life are the result of a vengeful god punishing humans of wrong doing).
Alan L. Since when do they label everything as sexist? They just said that this particular myth is sexist, what's wrong with that?
The Rising Theurge
Making a whole presentation infront of (I presume a class) just to say that this ancient Greek myth is sexist.
That's what's wrong.
Well the thing about it is that it IS sexist. The whole Ancient Greek civilization is really sexist. It's not a label, it is what it is. If you have the chance to read some other myths/stories, there is one that's really interesting about how husbands marry girls at a young age so they can "mold" them into the wife they want. ( Xenophon - Oikonomicus )
Pro0ohunter
The reason why I made the presentation to the class was that I had to make a presentation relating to "social justice", and I really like greek mythology, so I found a way to be able to have my presentation involve that.
You say this may not have anything to do with Hesiod's love life, but I think you are underestimating the pettiness of ancient Greek story writers. I mean, look at how they portray their gods.
While the tale is undeniably regressive (duh, ancient greece), I think it has some strong redeeming features and interpretations that should not let go to waste. Pandora is literally all-gifted, which, even when seen as evil, puts her above the weak/uninteresting/agency-lacking female characters of other greek mythology; the traits that make her unappealing in greek society make her interesting to us, which is fascinating to me. Making love as the source of human suffering, kind of, is agreable at least. Also the Imagery of Pandora's Vase/Box/Whatever is pretty strong, with hope being everlasting regardless and all. And finally, the idea of someone created to make others miserable, of a predetermined evil of sorts, is quite tragic and makes, by today's standards, Pandora the major victim of the whole plot; exploring her psychology could lead to some amazing storytelling, showing off how one can be more than what others meant them to be.
And I'm just scratching the surface, after all the best part about myths is overanalyzing them.
P.s. How do you tag people on youtube again? @Overly Sarcastic Productions ? Does that work?
P.p.s. Prometheus is amazing everytime.
OMG Sempai noticed me.
Prometheus is amazing everytime.
FYI, Tagging used to be +name, but that doesn't work anymore. Thanks youtube.
Thanks for the info. I wish the various social networks and sites would be consistent about these rules. -_-
Carlo Mazzeranghi
In your mind, what kind of stories would you get from analyzing (this version of) Pandora that you wouldn't get from looking at similar characters? Despite the extravagance of her creation, she strikes me as very straight forward; she was created to bring evil/ misery into the world and enjoys doing so. She's more or less Maleficent, but beautiful and without magic powers. Don't get me wrong, I like Maleficent; characters with simple, pure motivations are appealing to me: Lord Dominator from Wander over Yonder, Saitama from One Punch Man, and most iterations of The Joker are also examples of this.
Even by modern sensibilities I'd hesitate to say Pandora's a tragic character or even a victim, let alone the major victim. She's literally the only human who suffer inn this story.
As a followup, there's nothing inherently wrong with a character fulfilling the ends for which they were ordained, so long as the relationship isn't abusive and person enjoys the role they've been given. Take the appliances from the Brave Little Toaster; on one hand all man-made machines must hide that are fully sentient and exist as solely as *tools* to be used by man. On the other hand, all machines (even *evil* ones) love humanity for unknowingly giving them life and genuinely find joy and fulfillment in doing what they were created for.
"Beware Greeks bearing gifts" should also apply to the Greek Gods, basically.
You guys really deserve more views and subs and likes
You teach better that my school!
animatic Rz if a UA-cam channel teaches you better than school there’s a problem
Abby The weird fangirl that's quite normal, youtube videos usually need to be interesting to be successful over other videos whereas school traps you, you don't have another choice so they don't bother trying and it's just easier to learn anything if it's interesting, any topic can be made interesting by the right teacher, youtube just creates a situation where the teachers who make the topic interesting get seen the most, school doesn't, getting through everything is more important to them than making sure the students care
I remember reading that there was an earlier variation of this myth, that her name Pandora meant 'she who sends up gifts,' and that initially she was a kind of Mother Goddess figure who offered gifts to mankind from a jar buried in the Earth. Hesiod, among others, reimagined the myth and later generations expanded upon those changes - including altering the jar into a box.
I always saw Pandora as the metaphor. I'd never even heard the 'ladies be evil' angle until today and it's super weird to me.
I always saw Pandora herself as the jar(The first version I'd heard it in, but not Hesiod's I guess). As the first woman, Pandora kind of has to be considered the start of human reproduction. Zeus sending her to man struck me as giving them responsibility over their own future as a punishment. The boons from all the gods were given because humanity would need those traits to survive, and slipping them to Pandora in the guise of helping Zeus' plan made more sense than openly giving them to humanity(undercutting Zeus' punishment and risking his ire). Being literally built to have a (perhaps the first) brain, Pandora knowing what was about to happen makes sense. It's not like she could have stopped Zeus and she would've known her real job came after. That also explained why the 'evils' in the jar were things like sickness, dying, or worrying(the kind of stuff you wouldn't even know about as the god's mindless, sheltered, offering-cattle) and why Hope remained within the humanities possession/the jar(Pandora herself as anyway you wanna slice it women hold the hope of humanities future).
Once I heard the box version, the curiosity angle felt odd to me(seen one eden parallel seen 'em all right?) but Pandora intentionally keeping Hope in the Box(/jar/self/humanities grasp) strengthened my original belief that Hope getting 'stuck' there in the first place was intentional.
Thats an interesting angle
I like this one
That actually quite interesting and thoughtful. While yes it does contain some sexism given this Ancient Greece, however I hope this was Hesiod being more metaphorical
It's kinda ironic that Zeus confiscates all of Humanity's fire because of how butt-hurt he was about the sacrifices, since they need fire to burn those sacrifices in the first place, meaning Zeus just stopped them from being able to sacrifice to him at all.