Are Snake-Eyes STILL Tier 0? Everything about the current TCG Format! | Heart of the Cast #18
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- Опубліковано 5 сер 2024
- In this episode, @Farfa & @JoshuaSchmidtYGO discuss the current situation in the TCG! Is Snake-Eyes Tier 0? What's the impact of Legacy of Destruction? Which decks performed at European Nationals so far? Everything in this Episode!
0:00 Yapping, RC2 and Accessories
9:26 Intro to Today's Topic & Snake Eye Talk
20:18 Other Notable Decks
45:30 Some Tenpai Talk
49:42 Why Do Boardbreakers not work?
56:15 Closing Thoughts
Spreadsheet: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/... - Ігри
Josh really needs to schedule the releases of these now lol
should have kept this in the bin.
YCS Indianapolis 2024 top 32 answers the question in that title
In 28 different ways lol
"I don't think it's just like Snake Eyes is the best deck" not even 1 minute in and it already aged like milk
@@PyckledNyk *24 I think? 20 Pure, 1 FK, 1 Salad and 1 "Kashtira" was it iirc
@@nightknight498 23. The Branded in top 32 was mislabeled as Snake Eye.
When I saw this title I knew it was copium. Indys topcut was nightmare fuel
It's really funny how they released this video right after the YCS that had Snake Eyes at Tier 0 status.
Technically not quite tier 0 since that’s at 65% or greater and pure SE was at 62%. There were also 12 different decks in top 32, which is surprisingly diverse.
Fire King SE isn’t different enough, so I’d say yes to tier 0
@@dariuspenner2528 Literally every time I read different numbers for tier 0 when someone says this. Most people say over 50% or 60% btw. There is no clear definition and 65% is absolutely arbitrary.
@@dariuspenner2528oh just 65% ohhh so it’s definitely okay and not an oppressive format. So glad the Salamangreat ftk, kash and fire king decks in the top 32 also ran snake eye engines. Phew close call, almost thought it was tier 0
@ stiffeification 65% being the threshold for tier 0 has been the standard since as far back as around 2010 looking at old Pojo forum posts. The people who call it >50% or any other number are wrong, since that’s the precedent that’s been set for over a decade now. Yes the percentage is arbitrary. No different than how percentages translating to letter grades are arbitrary. 65% has just been the community-agreed-upon threshold that denotes a deck so overwhelmingly strong that it’s realistically only losing games against itself. Most tier 0 formats have also well exceeded that 65% threshold, with decks like Spyral and Tear routinely taking up around 90% and Zoo taking up literally 100% of top cut spots at some events. Pure SE from last format is one of the worse performing tier 0 decks, barely even qualifying pre-ban list. Point is, tier 0 does have a clear definition and has had a clear definition for well over a decade. The only way SE qualifies as tier 0 currently is if you lump every deck that splashes the SE cards under the same umbrella, which isn’t what we did with Zoodiac after the Fusion Sub combo got hit when it became a splash in half a dozen other strategies. Fire King SE, Salamangreat SE, and pure SE all play completely differently. They’re not the same deck.
its always a pleaseure see you using my spreadsheet for things like this, and i always greatful that you share it with others , the more people see it i get more info and the data becomes more accurate this sheet is not made by me is made by everyone, thanks u all
thank u for ur dedication
0:46 "I dont think its just like snake eyes is the still the best deck" aged like milk lol
Tbf they did acknowledge this in the ycs stream that Josh was streaming 😂
Love how these come out once a week, but always too late for the discussion to matter.
You guys should have waited until the YCS was over to record this one.
Oh no :/ they predicted wrong :///
I disagree with farfa that some random euro nationals with 300-400 people is a more "prestigious" event than the 2000+ person ycs' that every pro and top player consistently travel to. And in those events Snake Eyes is clearly still tier 0
Farfa every 4 seconds:
“That would be a good topic for a different video”
My favorite thing abt these podcasts is that whenever they sit down to discuss meta relevant stuff, its always too late to be matter or just ends up being straight up wrong (YCS indy top cut for ex). Its surprising that this hasnt yet been addressed in some way.
I love how this series has consistently outdated on launch episodes lol
Yea i came here to hear them talk about indy and for aome reason they recorded thisbbefore indy, really boggles the mind with thay decision
I put these on in the background and always enjoy them as the hour or so passed by so fast without me sidetracked by anything else. Another banger episode 🍻
Bad timing on this one lol. Comes out not 24hours removed from 24 or top 32 at indy being snake eyes and all of top 4 being that deck.
honestly it feels like until snake eyes is actually reigned in, theres just feels like playing 1 engine and a bunch of handtraps and non-engine.
like even even when fiendsmith comes i feel like it still might be better
Farfa and Josh. You guys are great, the pod is great, however there seriously needs to be a restructure of how late the uploads come to UA-cam. This isn't the first time a pod has come out after a major update (YCS Indy, Banlist, etc.) and just aged like milk. Please upload them more in line with when they are recorded.
Today’s Topic : Current TCG Format… these videos are already outdated when they come out and even if a week goes by these videos will be even more outdated. If you really wanted their take on the format in real time you’d just watch these live streams. Most of the content these creators make are just clipped from their livestreams so we’re already late to the party.
The answer is "yes", its just that there's finally a somewhat budget meta deck in the room now in the form of Tenpai and Melodious (and i guess stun, but floodgate.dek is always strong if people aren't preparing for it to some extent; bringing it up seems kinda pointless, that type of deck is always going to see some level of success because its inherrently anti-meta).
Farfa being a dad is a piece of knowledge that causes me slight existential dread every time im reminded of it
this episode aged well after indianapolis
they probably shoulda just waited until the ycs to make this is was a couple days
Josh just be talking out of his asss like… he knows nothing about salad and there are tons of ppl playing nib to some capacity
Ofcourse the people who bought RA2 will enjoy it. The people who dislike RA2 will go for the singles :D
Yeah im just gonna go for the singles this time round…
32:36 Slovenia mentioned! WOOOOOOO!!!!
Hey duelists, whatcha think about snake eye chimera?
Using original sinkeeper as my bridge piece to connect chimera and the other illusions to sinful spoils and snakeye
The spreadsheet has not been put in the description
oop, I just finished this episode and looked in the description for the spreadsheet link, but it isn't there
I use the Melodious engine in one of my Lightsworn brews, and while it definitely can put up Apollousa before I commit to my actual gameplan, I primarily use it as a way to Pendulum Summon a handful of otherwise bricky Light monsters. One Ostinato turns a whole hand of guys into *GAS*.
INFO being legal for NA WCQ is gonna suck so much
Need to see farfa lights worn list
I feel that “im a dad now” lol
Tenpai in a long tournament can’t too because you can’t sack 12 rounds in a row
Also loses to all rogue decks
Knowing Konami, they’re probably gonna ban runick allure next list
This was a crazy talk about hearthstone, so crazy that i dont see how any of this leads to my thirst for knowledge of hearthstone.
After ycs indianapolis news, we definitely need shakeup in the meta. Either we unban full power tear or konami has to hit snake-eyes more aggresively
I would love to see a more powerful Tearlaments deck, but that's not how Konami operates. They need to sell new cards.
Tear will absolutely destroy snake eyes, nothing interesting to see here, just ban the cards already
Can you imagine if they killed snake eyes after never having an EU YCS when we all bought the cards at over a grand 🤣
The game is already dying here. It would see even more people leave the game in Europe.
Bring arise back problem solved. Or ban flameburg
@@lenabo9929a limit on Flamberge, Ash and maybe WANTED would be decent. Apollousa will most likely get hit also so I think that’ll be enough to take Snake-Eye and bump it down to tier 1.5
Josh: snake-eye isn’t tier 0
YCS Indi: hold my beer…
Yes. Next question?
Where spreadsheet?
Awww Farfa is a father
Virtual world winning spanish nationals is the same thing as the first time prank kids won a YCS.
No one was prepared for it, and it happens to have a decent match against most lower power decks. Anyone playing tenpai is fucked hard by shenshen.
And the guy just got lucky.
I need to see the Farfa Lightsworn guu pls
In regards to Boardbreakers, Evenly Matched sounds like a card that would be the boardbreaker to max out on against Snake-Eye. Promethean and I:P in the S/T zone don't matter when your opponent is forced to banish all but one card face-down. Is Evenly not a popular sideboard option?
You’re giving up your battle phase, and the opponent gets to keep Flamberge on board with Princess in grave (+ handtraps, usually 2+). The moment you special summon, they get a Princess pop which searches Ash + OSS with the Flamberge floating effect. You now need to make a board through that pop + the handtraps capable of contesting the opponents starter + extender next turn (a next turn they are guaranteed to have due to Evenly) - and there aren’t many decks capable of doing that.
You need Evenly + 1-2 other cards for it to be impactful; at that point, it’s no different to needing multiple handtraps. You’re better off playing the cards that increase the strength of your turn 1 board and give you a chance of OTKing turn 2, rather than a card that is dead going first and still needs to be drawn as part of a strong hand to have the desired effect going second.
No battle phase. They still have their full GY and hand (flamberge/princess) + handtraps. They just need to play a 1 card starter now that you've used everything and they rebuild again but with a battle phase while you gave up yours. Snake- eye is much more probalamatic than just their board.
S:P being in every deck makes Evenly feel way worse, IMO that’s really why Evenly has fallen out of favor
If they have zealantis they lose basically nothing. Pop flamberge and I:p. Keep appo. Flamberge triggers afterward giving them oak, ash, poplar with oss in hand. Still have 2 negates plus princess active and you cant attack anymore
Evenly matched is one of these cards that might sound broken, almost unfair in theory, but in practice it rarely is enough by itself. Decks have a lot of layers and follow up these days, and the opponent decides what to keep, so is very hard for them to make a wrong decision.
39:30 Is it not almost always correct to just hit the first thing?
Sure, Ashing Aluber is stupid but Veilering or spot removing a Normal Summon has good chances to end a turn, doesn't it?
What is correct against Snake-Eyes now seems correct most of the time.
Even if they have an answer (such as Heavenly Dragon Circle on Moye) you deprive them of more options if you use the handtrap sooner than if you used it later, usually.
Yeah this was def recorded early lmao
Love you guys, cannot believe you found about 20 things to talk about yuigoh.
Ive win through imperm/nib playing vw and broke and otked thru seal savage baldrake nib. Deck has its days
Drawing the spell going second isn't bad paired with city and a name because it becomes an imperm and halfway to a pop with just city/qinglong
the bad thing about virtual world
that deck doesn't have legit boss monster
it's just an engine deck
yes
Salad wincon is roar+ Bagooska
with the new support it has a lot more win conditions, and people are not even playing access code.
We really need tear or something that don't care about hand trap to come back to kill this hand trap meta. This meta is so disgusting.
Snake eyes still has that consistency and pressure compared to tenpai (tenpai has consistency for otk but not for the handtrap/removal/dodging handtrap parts)
How do you even play against heat wave
set 5 backrow
I just thought of something: Instead of saying "Snake-Eye is the best deck", we should say "Snake-Eye is the best archetype", because not all decks that use Snake-Eye are the same, but it's the best part in all of them.
What? They’re all snake eyes decks. All they change is what engine they use. Melodious, fire king, kashtira. It’s all the same thing besides like 5-8 cards
You know there's gonna be talk of missing the timing in this video.
I realy want na wcs make people bring tenpai to eu wcs so josh can sweep with paleos
Where is the U tuuuuuuuuuuuuuube?!?!
Timing has been terrible on these the last couple times.
If you account for Snake Eyes engine being splashed in other decks it took up 75%.
But if you're grasping at straws and deluded it took up 63%.
Couldnt disagree more, ostinato doesnt even trade with imperm due to gravity controller. And a defense position aria is a straight up ftk against a lot of decks. Not fun at all to play against
These are always just a little too late, haha.
I'm just so tired of normal summoning Snake-Eye Ash, guys.
Josh if you dont know current salad combo, dont talk it down like that. You do weasel and still play through nib just fine
I’ll save you the trouble of watching this video; yes, yes it is
11:32 "painxooo: Why does Farfa look like a crack addict today?"
Boy this didn’t age well.
U tuuube
22:30 Sometimes I feel as though Farfa can come across as a little pretentious about subjects he may not be up to date on, a little bit of the YuGiOh doomsday mindset
Lol, lmao
Yeah this one aged like milk. Almost un-listenable given how wildly off some of the predictions turned out to be.
Need to be more careful going forward when timing these releases near major events and after banlists because the speculative discussion points are relevant only for a very short window of time
Title aged super badly lol
Goes to show EU Nationals arent representative of the meta vs a YCS or NAWCQ/EUWCQ.
Idk if it’s just me or if you guys are eating at 5 star diners with this episode, but man 5 adds in 25 minutes of watching is a bit ridiculous
Feel like im the only player who doesn’t care about snake eyes. I clap them all the time in Master duel with Vanquish Souls. For me its Labrynth. I think I lose about 90 percent of my lab match ups and thats even with prime hands.
For me? Snake Eyes dies to
Drowning MF sometimes
Spell shattering Arrow (its a fun AND effective card for VS)
Retaliating C can actually kill them straight off the bat, Id say about 30 percent of Snake eyes players scoop once they realise rhey need to banish poplar to get rid of my retaliating C.
Chain Strike is deceptively strong in VS because you alone can easily make the chains fairly high.
Swordsoul cards, Good synergy with Jialong 👍
Snake Eyes aint shit. Labrynth be ripping my hand before I can even start lol
You playing a different game, to an extent
@@chewdoom8415 Yeah thats true im only doing Master Duel, I dont play paper. But the discussions around Snake Eyes are similar, just remove factors like Maxx C.
I admit a good portion of my wins are from Maxx C. Which I hate saying lol
@@obskewerd3992 Damn. I wasn't that serious 💀. The "C" is a menace.
Rarity collection 2 fucking sucks and Josh only says otherwise cause he’s a Konami shill.
Homeboy is too scared, not just to show dueling book on stream, but to even mention db grinders name. My guy needs to chill.
RC2 is just a fun set to open, it doesn’t suck because you don’t like it.
Very angry, seek assistance.
U tuuube