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I might get hate for this, but if I was making Smash 6, I'd cut Daisy and remake Peach's moveset to incorporate Perry from Super Princess Peach. It's her one solo adventure and basing her kit on that isn't crazy.
I love the Idea for Daisy's move set, I would like to add that instead of floating like peach, she should have an extra jump to reference her double jump ability in Super Mario Run, and leave the floating to peach
I seen a modded smash where they actually did And side B also was changed abit still Peachs but had properties like Luigi's missle where it can missfire
@@crep50 I thought the third jump would be better if it was more horizontal rather than vertical, and maybe footstooling anyone after the third jump will give them the flower effect
I think Daisy's moveset could use some of the bosses from Super Mario Land as they are literally her subjects. According to the Super Mario Wiki, the bosses ruled under Princess Daisy until Tatanga came and hypnotized them, making them evil
Yeah I like this idea more. Like how Rosalina's moves have ties to Super Mario Galaxy. I think it makes more sense drawing references from Super Mario Land for Daisy. Knowing overall how the existing Mario Reps solely (almost) focus on the main games (with the exception of Dr. Mario only because of Melee's development).
Honestly Dark Pit has the most missed potential as there are LOAAAADDDDS of weapons from Kid Icarus uprising that could be so well implemented in smash
It's not even just that the weapons exist. Dark Pit's entire character is genuinely different from Pit. Normal Pit is the burning Yang, a hot-blooded warrior of light: every level has you just bum-rushing an enemy stronghold and figuring it out from there. Dark Pit is the shady Yin: a brooding sniper who prefers to play keepaway. Even in Chapter 22 when you play as him, even when he has the same controls as Pit, Chapter 22 has Dark Pit just flying around most of the enemies because he can, only fighting Amazon Pandora because she steals his flight and pins him to the floor
@@videogamesleague629 Considering he was in the game since Smash 4, he could've very easily been changed up. If Falco and Ganondorf can do so between games, there's no reason any other clone can't.
I somewhat feel dumb now for wanting Dark Samus in the game because of how she turned out, but she honestly does have a lot of potential for a really cool move-set. This video didn't even talk about Dark Samus's ability to turn invisible, make duplicates, mimic the abilities of opponents she possessed, giving her access to some of Rundas, Ghor, and Gnadrayda's abilities. There's also plenty of leeway to her concept to give her character in general. Dark Samus is a Metroid so one can give her potentially a grab that can drain energy. Dark Samus' body produces Phazon"The Great Poison" so we can give her poison effects. Even beyond that one can also give Dark Samus abilities that Samus used in the prime trilogy that she doesn't use in smash.
Fun fact, Dark Pit was originally separated from Pit because Three Sacred Treasures wouldnt make sense for Dark Pit’s final smash, but since Pit now uses the Lightning Chariot (which he and DP have both used) it defeats the original purpose of separating the two.
Dark pit should’ve got lightning chariot as he literally uses it in a major scene and pit should’ve kept 3 sacred treasures cause it’s faaaaar cooler and more fitting for him
Why didn’t the devs just replace some of the special moves of the echoes with one of the custom moves they had in ssb4? I’m not a developer but I don’t think it would be too hard to port over and make balanced for ultimate.
or just some minor changes. the only difference between marth and lucina is the tipper mechanic, but that is enough to make their playstyles different. aside from chrom and ken, the echoes in ultimate play identically to the original (simon deals fire damage with his down B, while richter deals aura damage, but that just means simon can prematurely detonate remote bombs while richter can kill red pikmin with down B, both being too situational to count as differences)
using the fire emblem for the aegis move would make sense. it was never used as a shield in canon, but chrom does wear it like one, which implies it can be used that way. it would also make him the second FE character to utilize the fire emblem in combat (the other being corrin. in fates, the fire emblem is another name for the omega yato). you could probably make the argument that byleth does as well (the fire emblem is never directly named, but the crest of flames is a clear reference), since his/her crest is what allows him/her to use the hero relics safely
@@Underworlder5 Technically "Crest" is a right translation, but they can also be translated as "Emblems" so... In Japanese version, Byleth's Crest is directly called "the Fire Emblem"(Wich make an unique thing at his own(but that's big spoiler i suppose). In reality, Chrom and Lucina are poorly depicted in their fighting style in Smash, since Chrom is supposed to have a violent, fast and brutal fighting style, absolutely different from Marth's fighting style, and Lucina has the same fighting style(Chrom recognize it immediately, so...). Apart from that, there is a ton of material they could have picked, Lucina and Chrom are both canonically skilled archers and lancers, they both can use Aether, Lucina has access to Bride class, while Chrom to the Dread Fighter. Again, they were made to be Echoes so, meh, but definitely had a lot of wasted moveset
I honestly feel they should have put Celica in Smash instead of Chrom. Her being a main title Lord who wasn't from Awakening, and also being a mage would have been a lot better for FE's image in the eyes of Smash players.
@@redhead_bebs she could be somewhat unique in terms of playstyle as well. maybe give her safer sword moves in addition to stronger magic spells that deal recoil damage (magic consumes the casters HP in gaiden, with more powerful spells costing more HP). since she has access to seraphim, that also means we got a FE rep who uses light magic. the only issues i can see is that she has a sword (she uses magic, but is presented with both weapons equally) and is somewhat divisive among the FE fandom compared to alm
Nah I agree about Daisy. And of course with Ken, the way he is is kinda the point of the character and everything he does is in street fighter as is. So, it works out
I've always thought that Daisy should be a Sports rep, and Party should have it's own character with a moveset built entirely around the bullshit vibes of that franchise, especially since there's a perfect candidate for a wacky chaotic Mario Party rep just sitting there wasting away as an Assist Trophy.
Towards the end of Uprising, Dark Pit lost his infinite flight power when Pandora left his wings at the Rewind Spring in Chapter 21. So it also makes sense for Pittoo to have the same up special as Pit.
I'd like to see a video that would be about "what if alternate costumes in Smash Ultimate were full characters?" featuring movesets for Blood Falcon, Galacta Knight, Dark Meta Knight, Alph, The Koopalings (As a single fighter), and Enderman (Zombie can't do much Steve can't, and Alex is basically a glorified genderswap)
I really hate the Enderman costume. It just looks so wrong. Usually Sakurai doesn't twist the design of characters so blatantly to make them fit in some weird niche in Smash.
Blood Falcon should take Ganondorf's current moveset (with the old, swordless smashes) so that Ganondorf can finally get a unique one that actually references the Zelda series.
Gotta say, Daisy as a trapsetter just isn't fitting. Sleep effects on the flower field, an RNG projectile and a reliable projectile, the playstyle you're proposing for her here might have REFERENCES to sports games, but it's not sporty or athletic at all, it sounds like some Animal Crossing, Game and Watch, Solid Snake, Pac-Man kinda shit.
But even like that, is representative to the character and what she does in game. It's not a representation to the games she is on, but more a representation of HERSELF in that games.
It is worth noting for Lucina that Arena Ferox IS actually a reference to a specific location, and is actually where you first meet and fight her in awakening, making it already an incredibly fitting homestage
For daisy i hope she wouldn't have peaches float but she would be faster and have better frame dater also the nutreal special would be the dice block. Dark pit be more aggressive e.g. up b does damage but because dark pit has something extra pits up b would have invincibility for a few frames, i would also give pits ultimate to dark pit and give pit his old smash 4 ultimate. Lucina i couldn't think of anything.
@@nathanielbaker9359 I think for Lucina they could’ve at least made her wield her sword two-handed in the stance that She does in Awakening and as shown in the smash 4 trailer for her. Her attacks have always seemed very heavy and uncanny to me. In a good way.
Without a doubt Daisy definitely deserves the decloning treatment, faster, stronger, and slightly heavier than peach and give her a down air foot stomp that spikes, give her Peach’s old melee up air as well. I love Daisy very much as a character outside of smash and yes she’s my waifu and the best princess. But as a character in Smash she’s basically a glorified set of Peach skins with different animations and a voice. That’s how Smash portrays her sadly.
What do you mean "basically"? That's exactly what she is, since she's the one Echo Fighter with absolutely no gameplay differences from the original character.
It definitely felt like a slap in the face to Daisy stans. The attacks just don’t make *sense* for her and making her an echo is barely better than when she “existed” as an alternate Peach skin for years. …like, she has a presence in the spinoff titles as being more of a tomboy. She only fills “the same slot” in Mariokart where she and Peach have the same special item (and ballgowns). (Whatever. I still drive as Daisy.) And well. Sure her one (1) nonspinoff franchise game damsels her BUT-technically all the bosses Mario fights (save the final one trying to force her into marriage) are brainwashed nobility. They serve under her, so having them and their gimmicks referenced really wouldn’t be a stretch Or…just make new attacks, and run with her “rougher” personality + flower aesthetic. Use vines for a grab, damage-dealing pollen clouds, put opponants to sleep with flower fields, etc She could be an utter *menace*
I’ve always thought dark pit should have some physical combat moves like kicks. Because I remember in chapter 5 he kicks pit even tho he has a weapon and I thought that was very un pit like, and thought it made him more unique. Maybe replace dash attack, forward throw and forward tilt with kicks.
he also kicked an underworld gatekeeper in chapter 9, taking it out instantly. him having kick moves wouldve been a neat way to add a bit of difference between him and pit
Normal jump with a basketball - front flip with a basketball - SLAM DUNK!! (causes a very small amount of damage like a taunt but kind of acts like a meteor but way less affective)
I feel like the whole “give Daisy a move set based on spinoff games” is what they should do to Waluigi if he ever gets added. I can’t think of any other type of move set that would fit other than just standard punches and kicks, and even then what would his final smash even be?
Final Smash: Waluigi Pinball - Waluigi sends the opponent to Waluigi Pinball and they take damage as they bounce around the pinball area and then get finished off by a huge pinball.
that’s IF he ever gets added. if they pledged or swore on never putting him in smash then why not go ahead and give the spin-off game moveset to daisy, it makes sense for both so
@@Demi-Joker i personally don’t see why that makes sense as waluigi’s smash, i just think him attacking the opponent with different sport or party weapons or teleporting them to his pinball thing is way better than a goofy reused dumbass dance
I still use Lucina & Chrom more than their original lol, though I still love using Roy, he’s fun cause he’s probably the most aggressive character in the game
I get that Daisy was made an echo fighter to please the fans and because she would be easier to put in, but there was so much potential for a unique moveset.
For Lucina I thought of implementing a gimmick where she starts every stock with her mask which would make her play exactly like she currently does in smash but when she reaches high percentage like around 60% she “reveals” her actual self and she gets a new original moveset with powered up attacks
That's a very interesting concept. However I think it would be hard to justify using marth with something like that, which tbf it already is hard to justify using marth over Lucina, but I think with a mechanic like that it would take incredible balancing acts.
10:00 I'm a big Kid Icarus fan and I can assure you... It's 50-50. Most think think that yes, it does make perfect sense for Dark Pit to be a clone for... Very obvious reasons. Agreeing to it though is not the same as liking it, as yeah, there's missed potential with Uprising weapons.
Absolutely agree that Daisy needs a new... Everything to change her from being virtually identical to Peach. I will agree with the changes suggested to Richter, so at least we don't have another virtually identical echo that serves little if any purpose. Idk or care enough about the fire emblem echos to have a strong opinion on them, apart from feeling like they have too many reps for a series that doesn't feel as big as pokemon or Mario Dark Samus, Dark Pit, and Ken, at least have elements of uniqueness to them to not have to change too drastically, but extra variety never hurts
I do agree with Daisy's moveset, except there would be one thing I would change. I know you added a reference to Strikers with using her torpedo strike from the first Strikers game as her side-B, but I would have made her final smash her mega strike (Crystal Daisy) from Mario Strikers Charged. Her special swing as a special move for her was a nice touch.
I know its been a year since you posted this comment but I totally agrée with you and I think crystallized daisy is a much more powerfull and creative final smash that represents her personality instead of all those Mario party details that are here to remind the Mario series, She is not a representation of Mario games but of herself
Daisy needs a rework, but I don't think a spinoff centric moveset really fits her. I think it'd make more sense for Waluigi because of his goofy, weird nature and the fact that he debuted in the spinoffs
i have some ideas for Richter: -When he charges his smash attacks to its fullest, he activates Flame Whip, one of his Item Crashes on Rondo of Blood/ Symphony of the Night, making the Smash attack WAAAAY more powerful. - up air is his Flip double jump, losing the ability to recover but getting the ability to ladder combo. - i would swap Stopwatch and Holy water. -and Stopwatch is literally Witch Time but it stops time now.
The Fire Emblem in Marth's time (Awakening takes place thousands of years later) was used to seal away Earth Dragons. Either Lucina or Chrom could use this to disable foes for a small bit of time. Think of it like kinda like Mewtwo's Disable. Naga's Flame as a mechanic would work nicely. Either have it like a typical comeback mechanic, or give the ability to charge it at the cost of damage since in Awakening Naga's Flame is a painful trial.
Ness is still one of the worst grievances in the series. Not only is he not the original protagonist (Ninten)-which means he wasn't a good representative of the series in the same way Mario, Marth, or Kazuya were-, but he's also using a moveset not native to his character.
@@ThunderBrine I believe "Earthbound / Mother 2" was a lot more popular than the first game in Japan, and it actually had a North American release at the time, hence why Ness got picked over Ninten.
I really like your ideas for Daisy and agree that she deserves a new moveset! I think some idea using the crystals she's associated with from Mario strikers charged could also add to the character
I agree that Daisy is the most deserving of a new moveset. Here are my ideas for alts: a) The casual T-shirt used in many Mario Sports games b) The casual dress used in many Mario Sports games c) Mario Strikers outfit d) Biker from MarioKart 8 e) Her swimsuit from various Mario and Sonic at the Olympics games f) Her princess dress can have one alt What would probably happen would be 4 of those outfits in their default colors and with one recolor each, my preference being: P1&4 would be the casual T-shirt, P4 being a purple shirt and blue shorts (referencing Waluigi) P2&5 would be biker, P5 being light blue (referencing Rosalina) P3&6 would be Strikers, P6 would feature green (referencing Luigi) P4&8 would be the dress she currently has, P8 would be similar to Peach That was a long comment
For a final smash, I say use daisy's captain super from Mario strikers charged aka "Crystal Smash". It has crazy reach and also gives off a fiery effect and send foes upwards that would be clueless to touch hot crystals
I love the Mario Spin-offs, but save representing that stuff for a character like Waluigi who literally has nothing to work with. Keep the dress or in the most extreme case give her her sports attire as an alt. Make her moves more aggressive than Peach and incorporate only Mario Land stuff. The enemies from Mario Land are all her subjects, just mind controlled by Tatanga, so she could easily have them in her moveset. Biokinton up B, Dragon Zamasu side B, Bombshell Koopa down B similar to Bowser Jr., King Hoyoihoi for her throws. King Totomesu could be her neutral B or give her the Super Ball power up. For her final smash she could bring out the Sky Pop. For her stage, I could accept a stage based on Daisy's Circuit, Cruise or Hills but really it should be based on a location in Sarasaland. Actually represent her with Mario Land stuff instead of giving her spin-off references. One of her biggest issues is that Sarasaland and stuff from her game hardly ever get associated with her anymore.
Waluigi isn't as much into sports as Daisy. A lot of her character is that she is very rough and competitive and makes sense to be the rep of spin offs like sports game way more than Waluigi
@@Salemwitchcraft she isn’t centered around sports, she’s just a tomboy. People just associate her with sports because Strikers and how she acted in it (even though everyone is over the top). She less centered around sports than Waluigi who literally has his a sports spin-off as his reason for existing.
@@CometX-ing yes well it's more important for reps who are already in smash to get a unique move set that way the arent just taking up slots instead of adding more probably echos like Waluigi that would make people mad.
I agree that Daisy needs a rework but the moveset here sounds pretty toxic with the rng and stuns which, imo, would be more fitting of Waluigi than Daisy I'd want to focus more on the sporty aspect, mix in a little more Mario to make her feel more tomboyish, and I have a fun gimmick for her; Overview: Sporty outfit with a cyan Strikers Charged home and away alt. Slightly heavier and faster than Peach, has a third jump instead of float, enters from a warp pipe ala Party. Her stance is more competitive than Peach and her run is closer to Mario's. Standard attacks are mostly the same as Peach but a touch faster. Her dash replaced with Mario's slide, the golf club swing is moved to down smash (with hit boxes through the entire arc), and side smash is replaced with Ness' reflector baseball bat. Her pummel no longer uses toad but hits with her own crown, and her throws are replaced with Wii Fit's. Her jab could be replaced with Little Mac's as a boxing reference (without the rapid jab), or Mario's three hits. Neutral Special; Super Ball (Mario Land) Fires a metal ball 45° diagonally downward; the Super Ball bounces predictably, and has no gravity. Whenever the ball is hit by an attack it gains charge and glows, like a Strikers ball, making it faster and more damaging, and it is sent in a new direction like the football item. She can act out of the attack quickly but can't use the ability again for 1 second; she can have only one Super Ball out at a time and it disappears after 4s of not being hit. If the ball has full charge it explodes on hitting an enemy, otherwise it bounces at a 90° angle. Up Special; Flower Shot (Mario Tennis) As per Peach's UpS but using a racket, swirling flowers around her that pull targets inward to the apex. At the top Daisy hits with a strong serve that can be angled. Side special: Volley Dive (Mario Sports Mix) Similar to each bomber but with a swan dive animation that leads into a roll on the ground. Can be angled; tilting down aims the attack down (or lowers the jump from the ground) and launches upwards, tilting up aims upward and launches downward. Down Special: Heart Shield (Mario Kart) Daisy ducks and sends two hearts spinning around her (one hitbox either side); they each negate one attack over 15% or up to 15% of damage from weaker attacks. If they block a holdable projectile while her hands are empty it is instantly transferred to her as per Rosalina; if one or both hearts are intact at the end of the animation they can each pick up an idle item within about hookshot range. Gimmick: All of Daisy's attacks pull the Super Ball towards her if she is within reach; Up and Side launch it, while Neut and Down bring it into her hands (with Neut only doing this when the ball is within item pickup range). The ball can't be picked up in any other way; Daisy holds it like a basketball, dribbling it while running, and can charge-throw it in any direction like a dodgeball. The balls charge can be canceled and stored with a dodge, but it loses charge faster while held and can't be charged over 50% this way. As an Easter egg, if all players are Daisy then they share the same Super Ball; at the start of the match they automatically use a Mario Party Dice Roll (which is her up taunt) to decide who starts with it in their hand. In this mode Neut B won't replace the ball while it is in play but the ball can be reset if all players use the Dice taunt in a way where they all overlap. Ultimate: Either the strikers charged or mariokart one, or, if you wanted more Party representation (which really should go to Waluigi) Party Time - Daisy uses a Warp Dice Block that pulls nearby enemies into a cutscene of her playing a Marioparty Minigame, revealing the highest percent foe stunned in an inoppertune place (such as next to an inflatable bowser or the next in line as she passes a lit bob-omb) - the cutscene would be randomly chosen from the dice but always lasts the same time and deals the same damage (although knockback direction could change)
hard agree with your decision haha. she has a lot of history to be a unique fighter drawing off the spin-off games, especially if they never put waluigi in as a fighter.
For Dark Samus I'd also make her taller and her grab could be a tentacle from her off hand which would alow her to do more Brutal throws by blasting them away.
I'm surprised you didnt put the somersault for chrom or Lucina's cause that's interesting for a side B Honestly all of them would be nice to be not echo fighters, what's the point of having them in when they ain't original Plus that could help the Fire Emblens characters stand out more and wont be AS disliked Also you didnt talk about Ganondorf, the guy that needs a change
The reason we have echo fighters is becaause that was the only way they could be included. Echo fighters are mostly based off of other fighter's models and animations, meaning the work needed to make them was far less than a completely original character that needs to be made from scratch.
Controversial, but I personally enjoy Fire Emblem characters. It's my opinion and someone took it too far with saying someone deserves to die for being excited for Byleth. Also I think Ganondorf isn't because he is not an Echo Fighter.
I absolutely love the Fire Emblem characters personally, especially Lucina, Chrom, & male Corrin, I think they’re very fun & have interesting personalities in their home games
considering gradivus appears in shadow dragon and gaiden, and awakening takes place two milennia later, i just imagine chrom digging up an ancient weapon so he can use it in smash. sure, historians could have a great use for it, and it could be displayed in a museum for all to see, but chrom needs a more diverse moveset, dangit
@@Underworlder5 I'm pretty sure it was in Awakening too. I think in that mission where you fight some reanimated guys and they all drop legendary S rank weapons like Mystletainn among others.
It would be better if it weren't *exactly the same* as Peach's! I mean, even Dark Samus is slightly different in her dodging ability, while Lucina doesn't have the tipper mechanic, but Daisy has absolutely no changes whatsoever as far as gameplay goes! She might as well be a more detailed version of the alt costume for Peach that she was in the previous games.
Why is it when folks think of a non-Echo moveset for Daisy, they always default to spin-off stuff and not Super Mario Land stuff, or include it. Her Final Smash can be the Sky Pop, Neutral B be the Superball, various other enemies can be part of the moves so on and so forth
I get what you mean but for me it's mainly about making her unique and showcasing more content from popular Mario sub series since Smash doesn't represent Mario Party nearly at all
This is something that concerns me about Echo Fighters: that status might make it difficult for them to be differentiated from their source character. We can see this with Dark Pit and Lucina, who weren't changed from Pit and Marth from Smash 4 to Ultimate. Previous clone characters, like Luigi, Falco, Roy, etc., have been given new moves and identities over many installments. But if a character is introduced as an Echo, can they graduate?
Fair point, but Daisy and Dark Samus still deserve more differentiating than they have (or any, in Daisy's case) while still fitting the mold of Echo Fighters.
i think dark pit, dark samus, ken, and chrom will not be able to graduate however daisy, lucina, and richter have more history and have more potential with new movesets
Why couldn't they graduate? Assist trophies have graduated. Trophies have graduated. Previous clones became not-clones. Nothing says that "echo" status has to stick for the rest of the series. I don't think it's anything to worry about (whether there'll be another Smash game in any reasonable period of time is something more to worry about).
I think Daisy should be a semiclone rather than a full-on clone. Her sharing many of her normal moves with Peach is fine and make sense to me, but most of her special moves are things that only Peach does and don't fit Daisy all that much. Floating is also a Peach-specific ability, so for Daisy I'd replace it with an extra midair jump, referencing her unique ability to double jump in Super Mario Run. Losing the floating ability is a huge nerf but Daisy could make up for it by being faster than Peach and having stronger attacks, as well as being able to inflict the damaging flower status on opponents when using moves with flower effects.
Dark Pit as an echo makes the most sense of any echo. After all, he's literally a copy of Pit. He plays almost identically to Pit in Kid Icarus: Uprising. He does get Pandora's powers to heal him and give him unlimited flight, but that's the only difference. Just making him Pit with some different weapons makes the most sense.
Except there's hundreds of weapons and powers in KIU to draw from on top of Dark Pit's whole character arc being about how he doesn't like being a clone of Pit and wants to be his own person. Even if you did stick to the Silver Bow, there's still powers he could be using and Bow attacks from KIU that don't get used in Smash such as the Dash Attack or the actual Bow combo attack as well as Pit's old moves in Brawl.
As much of a Lucina & Chrom fan I am I have to agree with Daisy being the top character to need a new move set, she’s unplayable to me in her current state because of her current move set, if I really wanted to use that move set I’ll just use Peach, but I’ll really like to see these changes, I’m kinda tired of Lucina (me) being considered a watered down or an unskilled Marth!!
Instead of the dice I’d give her the super ball from Mario land. Which is a fast and weaker shot put attack that bounces and does less damage with each bounce but will keep going like a baseball item
When it comes to the Belmont Bros., I like the idea of buffing moves of Simon's that originated in his games, and buff moves of Richter's that originated in his. For example, the whip attacks of the Belmonts' forward tilt, forward air, jab, and forward smash came from Simon, so his version of those moves would be buffed. The dash attack, down tilt, up special, and final smash debuted with Richter, so those could be buffed for him.
i will say that I think tying in the time travel thing a s a cutscene final smash for Lucina would be interesting to me, it puts her higher in the list for me. Her whole arch of coming back to save her father, and the cutscene of her pretending to be some 'timeless hero' who saves those who need to be saved in the need of the revived is something that could make a cool final smash cutscene, you see her in her mask, it cracks while she fights these undead, and the enamys on the field are seen as these figures that don't belong, just cutsceneing away and breaking all of them and cutting through them as she did in the story that feels right to me. her being a copy of marth makes sense because she tried to be like him so no one could tell the difference, but having moves based on the awakening game would make me happier than warriors to an extent, yes, warriors expands on more moves she could have, but I think, Chrom and Lucina alike, they don't need 100% unique moves, they would be the candidates of "Coustom moves from 3ds" they have their own variations of the moves from Marth with each of them having their own special smash. that's what I would consider good for those two characters, cutting out the falcion, would be like cutting out a main part of them, its the only weapon they use mainly besides the non 'cannon' I say that loosely I don't like warrior games. that they use, it is a weapon passed down through the generation. i think them using that weapon to their own ability fits 100% I will say, I know there are a lot of Fire emblem characters in smash, I don't think either of these deserve the top spot they function as is... i just .. story wise it would be pleasing for these changes to happen, even for chrome to have an existential crisis smash or something, the game has materiall they didn't pull from and it makes me sad.
For Ken the only real change I could see would be his tatsumaki becoming his sfV heavy tatsumaki (he jumps at the start and only starts swinging and going slightly down at the middle of the dash).
the bosses of Super Mario Land are normally under daisy's command, in the game they are hypnotized by Tatanga so that's why they attack Mario. So it makes sense if they help her fighting.
10:21 I honestly believe dark pit has one of the best chances of getting a different move-set, considering how many weapons is in kid Icarus uprising. Just give him the dark pit staff and change it according to it. For example, like changing the n-special to be a hard precise shot that works similar to ROB’s n-special. If you don’t like that idea, there’s tons of other weapons in the game that could be used.
For Chrom, I'd combine him with Robin to make a duo character like Melee Sheik and Zelda. To make the two mesh better, I'd remove Robin's durability system and Levin/Bronze sword make his moves all tome-based. That way you can play around with Robin being the zoner of the duo and Chrom being the rushdown. Lucina could then serve as an echo to Chrom, bringing along Robin's child Morgan to stand in as their echo.
Simon was the Belmont in Super Castlevania 4 and in that game, he can whip in all 8 cardinal directions. The way I'd do it is that he can whip downward if he inputs a f-air (← or → + A then ↓) and keeping his n-air. He can also whip diagonally up the direction he's facing so his forward tilt can work in the same way.
I might get hate for this, but if I was making Smash 6, I'd cut Daisy and remake Peach's moveset to incorporate Perry from Super Princess Peach. It's her one solo adventure and basing her kit on that isn't crazy
Dark Pit: Orge Club Violet Palm(Smash Attacks) Ez Cannon Pandora's Flight Silver Bow(Aerials and throws) Dark Pit Staff(Nuetral Special & as a Final Smash remains) Rant: Dark Pit Staff kills at 0% at ledge with either and Backthrow or Fowardthrow. Many people agreed that's it's one of the best Final Smash since it's one of the few to have 0 to death. Also it's based off the Staff Special Attack in Air Battles. It's unique in Ultimate but not in Smash 4. It's boring but practical. Give Lucina her custom moves: Crescent Slash Ila Counter
Don't get me wrong, I love Ken, but I feel that ryu could be the old street fighter rep and Ken be the new one. There hasn't been a street fighter game in ages without ex meter. If we remove his connection to sf2 and model him more off 3/4/5 it could be cool. idk I just wanna confirm into ex shoryu and kill at 50% lol don't @ me
I find it disappointing that you didn't mention daisy's earth attacks from mario strikers charged. That makes for at least an easy down b and final smash. Earth pillars rise from the ground as a down b, and anyone who gets hit with a backflip kick gets launched into the air and she makes a crystal fist to punch her opponents into the blast zone from the side.
For Ryu and Ken: Ryu can put fire in his Hadoken Ken can put fire in his Shoryuken The fact that Ken cannot normally do fiery hadokens is what separates him with Ryu
I like the idea of Daisy having a sports moveset while if Waluigi were to ever be added, he would have more of a reference to the party/spinoff games like Mario Party or maybe Mario Kart. Though, if we never got Waluigi, I would love your idea instead.
Daisy is one of my favourite Mario characters specifically because of her personality in the sports games, it was so disappointing when she ended up being an echo of peach, since the moveset does not fit her whatsoever It's really cool seeing an alternate idea for a moveset, and I really hope that if the echos make it into another game that they're given more individuality
I’m liking the dice block idea but to keep it more consistent I’d make it just a stat buff with the exceptions being 1 making you weaker, and 10 giving you the big powerful chainchomp whilst the rest are just varying degrees of Buster/Smash Monado Arts. I’d think it’ll be best to remove Daisy’s float but replace it with a third jump. Referencing her double jump in Mario Run.
I like your ideas and concepts but I believe these changes furthers them from echos, as they're suppose to be easy to make and like the orginals with some small changes Daisy, Richter and lucina did get horrible treatment due to very minor changes. I think echos should retain a majority of the tilts and theme as their orginal counter parts however the changes I think would make sense and acceptable for the game designers are: echos should have a different speed dynamic ( either faster weaker or slower stronger), give them one unique special like peach pulling turnups and daisy pulls the random mario party dice like you stated, change the dynamic to another existing special like Richters up b will go way higher then Simon but be a weaker single hit rather then the shorter stronger mulitihit. And finally final smashes should at least give the echo a more better cut scene style focused on their orginal appearance from their game. This will help keep echos as echos while giving them a twist of semi uniqueness that won't tax or make a developer work harder for essentially a freebie for us. I wish smash would of gave is an echo fighter pass it would of been perfect to help promote the echos and give more easy representation for franchise who don't have much.
I agree in regard to Ken, no real changes are needed with him. He's pretty accurate to how he is in Street Fighter. The only change I would do to both him and Ryu is just the option to input commands for their Final Smashes. Say, in Ryu's case for example; have Shinku Hadouken be ⬇️↘️➡️⬇️↘️➡️ + A while far from the opponent, and Shin Shoryuken would be ⬇️↘️➡️⬇️↘️➡️ + A while close to the opponent. Same for Ken's Final Smashes. I would like that a lot!
@@KaitouKaiju Eh, maybe. But if they still have two final smashes (assuming Ryu and Ken return for the next Smash, which might be possible) Then I would appreciate it if they had inputs for their final smashes at the very least. Hell, maybe make it so that the final smashes are stronger with the inputs.
5:27 biokinton is actually not a villain, he along with all the other enemies in the game are actually sarasaland citizens that were brainwashed by tatanga.
I always wanted Daisy and I always pictured her own final smash as the background being filled with water like in a tsunami on which her boat would be making it's way to the center of the stage
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Hi
I might get hate for this, but if I was making Smash 6, I'd cut Daisy and remake Peach's moveset to incorporate Perry from Super Princess Peach. It's her one solo adventure and basing her kit on that isn't crazy.
I love the Idea for Daisy's move set, I would like to add that instead of floating like peach, she should have an extra jump to reference her double jump ability in Super Mario Run, and leave the floating to peach
And to differentiate from fighters like banjo & kazooie, it wouldn’t be worse than her double jump
I seen a modded smash where they actually did
And side B also was changed abit still Peachs but had properties like Luigi's missle where it can missfire
@@crep50 I thought the third jump would be better if it was more horizontal rather than vertical, and maybe footstooling anyone after the third jump will give them the flower effect
I think Daisy's moveset could use some of the bosses from Super Mario Land as they are literally her subjects. According to the Super Mario Wiki, the bosses ruled under Princess Daisy until Tatanga came and hypnotized them, making them evil
Super Mario Land, you mean?
@@fluffy698, yes, why did autocorrect do that
Is there a castle cat's profile I see
@@ocmillion3667, yes
Yeah I like this idea more. Like how Rosalina's moves have ties to Super Mario Galaxy. I think it makes more sense drawing references from Super Mario Land for Daisy. Knowing overall how the existing Mario Reps solely (almost) focus on the main games (with the exception of Dr. Mario only because of Melee's development).
Honestly Dark Pit has the most missed potential as there are LOAAAADDDDS of weapons from Kid Icarus uprising that could be so well implemented in smash
Even changing his sword attacks and neutral b to use the staff and his jab to use claws w/out any hitbox changes would be be an upgrade on its owe
If he were more deverse, he might not be in the game
i think his moveset would be really cool if only pits was kept the same from brawl.
HIYIYIYA FOREVER!!!
It's not even just that the weapons exist. Dark Pit's entire character is genuinely different from Pit. Normal Pit is the burning Yang, a hot-blooded warrior of light: every level has you just bum-rushing an enemy stronghold and figuring it out from there. Dark Pit is the shady Yin: a brooding sniper who prefers to play keepaway. Even in Chapter 22 when you play as him, even when he has the same controls as Pit, Chapter 22 has Dark Pit just flying around most of the enemies because he can, only fighting Amazon Pandora because she steals his flight and pins him to the floor
@@videogamesleague629
Considering he was in the game since Smash 4, he could've very easily been changed up. If Falco and Ganondorf can do so between games, there's no reason any other clone can't.
Image you being an assist trophy being more unique than your character
69th like
I somewhat feel dumb now for wanting Dark Samus in the game because of how she turned out, but she honestly does have a lot of potential for a really cool move-set. This video didn't even talk about Dark Samus's ability to turn invisible, make duplicates, mimic the abilities of opponents she possessed, giving her access to some of Rundas, Ghor, and Gnadrayda's abilities. There's also plenty of leeway to her concept to give her character in general. Dark Samus is a Metroid so one can give her potentially a grab that can drain energy. Dark Samus' body produces Phazon"The Great Poison" so we can give her poison effects.
Even beyond that one can also give Dark Samus abilities that Samus used in the prime trilogy that she doesn't use in smash.
If Ashley was in smash brothers then maybe dark samus can use those abilities
@@aasaadmays1860 ashley is so uninteresting.
@@R0-83-RT It's ok! I don't think anyone truly expected Dark Samus to be so lazily included to the roster.
Dark Pit absolutely deserved a unique moveset. KIU gave him so much moveset potential, and it's sad that he quite literally is Pittoo
Fun fact, Dark Pit was originally separated from Pit because Three Sacred Treasures wouldnt make sense for Dark Pit’s final smash, but since Pit now uses the Lightning Chariot (which he and DP have both used) it defeats the original purpose of separating the two.
This fun fact always pisses me off.
exactly
Dark pit should’ve got lightning chariot as he literally uses it in a major scene and pit should’ve kept 3 sacred treasures cause it’s faaaaar cooler and more fitting for him
Why didn’t the devs just replace some of the special moves of the echoes with one of the custom moves they had in ssb4? I’m not a developer but I don’t think it would be too hard to port over and make balanced for ultimate.
or just some minor changes. the only difference between marth and lucina is the tipper mechanic, but that is enough to make their playstyles different. aside from chrom and ken, the echoes in ultimate play identically to the original (simon deals fire damage with his down B, while richter deals aura damage, but that just means simon can prematurely detonate remote bombs while richter can kill red pikmin with down B, both being too situational to count as differences)
@@Underworlder5 Doesn't Dark Pit also have a completely different Final Smash?
@@andco53
Yes, but that doesn't count for anything since that's dependent on an item and aren't allowed in competitive player.
@@Underworlder5 dark pit's arrows are different and electroshock arm sends at a different angle from upperdash arm
@@egon3705 i meant echoes that debuted in ultimate
You're wild for giving all these swordies projectiles
Lmao i never realized how unfair that would be 😂
*_”NO ROBIN, YAMATE!!!~”_*
I mean like there's only so much interesting with a sword
Imagine if Captain Falcon suddenly used his gun.
@@brandonwilliams6119 imaye
Chrom should use the Fire Emblem.
(It's a shield)
I think his Great Lord outfit not being in Smash was kinda a missed opportunity and a unique shield would've been cool
using the fire emblem for the aegis move would make sense. it was never used as a shield in canon, but chrom does wear it like one, which implies it can be used that way. it would also make him the second FE character to utilize the fire emblem in combat (the other being corrin. in fates, the fire emblem is another name for the omega yato). you could probably make the argument that byleth does as well (the fire emblem is never directly named, but the crest of flames is a clear reference), since his/her crest is what allows him/her to use the hero relics safely
@@Underworlder5 Technically "Crest" is a right translation, but they can also be translated as "Emblems" so... In Japanese version, Byleth's Crest is directly called "the Fire Emblem"(Wich make an unique thing at his own(but that's big spoiler i suppose). In reality, Chrom and Lucina are poorly depicted in their fighting style in Smash, since Chrom is supposed to have a violent, fast and brutal fighting style, absolutely different from Marth's fighting style, and Lucina has the same fighting style(Chrom recognize it immediately, so...). Apart from that, there is a ton of material they could have picked, Lucina and Chrom are both canonically skilled archers and lancers, they both can use Aether, Lucina has access to Bride class, while Chrom to the Dread Fighter. Again, they were made to be Echoes so, meh, but definitely had a lot of wasted moveset
I honestly feel they should have put Celica in Smash instead of Chrom. Her being a main title Lord who wasn't from Awakening, and also being a mage would have been a lot better for FE's image in the eyes of Smash players.
@@redhead_bebs she could be somewhat unique in terms of playstyle as well. maybe give her safer sword moves in addition to stronger magic spells that deal recoil damage (magic consumes the casters HP in gaiden, with more powerful spells costing more HP). since she has access to seraphim, that also means we got a FE rep who uses light magic. the only issues i can see is that she has a sword (she uses magic, but is presented with both weapons equally) and is somewhat divisive among the FE fandom compared to alm
Nah I agree about Daisy. And of course with Ken, the way he is is kinda the point of the character and everything he does is in street fighter as is. So, it works out
I've always thought that Daisy should be a Sports rep, and Party should have it's own character with a moveset built entirely around the bullshit vibes of that franchise, especially since there's a perfect candidate for a wacky chaotic Mario Party rep just sitting there wasting away as an Assist Trophy.
Towards the end of Uprising, Dark Pit lost his infinite flight power when Pandora left his wings at the Rewind Spring in Chapter 21. So it also makes sense for Pittoo to have the same up special as Pit.
I'd like to see a video that would be about "what if alternate costumes in Smash Ultimate were full characters?" featuring movesets for Blood Falcon, Galacta Knight, Dark Meta Knight, Alph, The Koopalings (As a single fighter), and Enderman (Zombie can't do much Steve can't, and Alex is basically a glorified genderswap)
The Enderman at least should have his death sound.
I really hate the Enderman costume. It just looks so wrong. Usually Sakurai doesn't twist the design of characters so blatantly to make them fit in some weird niche in Smash.
@@k-leb4671 definitely shouldve been skeleton
Blood Falcon should take Ganondorf's current moveset (with the old, swordless smashes) so that Ganondorf can finally get a unique one that actually references the Zelda series.
Gotta say, Daisy as a trapsetter just isn't fitting. Sleep effects on the flower field, an RNG projectile and a reliable projectile, the playstyle you're proposing for her here might have REFERENCES to sports games, but it's not sporty or athletic at all, it sounds like some Animal Crossing, Game and Watch, Solid Snake, Pac-Man kinda shit.
But even like that, is representative to the character and what she does in game. It's not a representation to the games she is on, but more a representation of HERSELF in that games.
It is worth noting for Lucina that Arena Ferox IS actually a reference to a specific location, and is actually where you first meet and fight her in awakening, making it already an incredibly fitting homestage
Technically the cloud boss from Super Mario Land isn't evil, he's just one of Daisy's subjects who got hypnotized by Tatanga during the game.
More reason for her to use it.
For daisy i hope she wouldn't have peaches float but she would be faster and have better frame dater also the nutreal special would be the dice block. Dark pit be more aggressive e.g. up b does damage but because dark pit has something extra pits up b would have invincibility for a few frames, i would also give pits ultimate to dark pit and give pit his old smash 4 ultimate. Lucina i couldn't think of anything.
lucina is still different bc of no tipper
@@orangez8710 yeah I agree I don't think Lucina should be changed because being able to choose between tipper and no tipper is awesome
Yes Lucina is boring,lame and Lucina mains have no taste (as you can see I have a lot of repressed anger against Lucina)
@@nathanielbaker9359 I think for Lucina they could’ve at least made her wield her sword two-handed in the stance that She does in Awakening and as shown in the smash 4 trailer for her.
Her attacks have always seemed very heavy and uncanny to me.
In a good way.
Daisy should have the power ball from Super Mario land, since that's the game she 1st appeared in and that had the Power Flower as a power up.
Without a doubt Daisy definitely deserves the decloning treatment, faster, stronger, and slightly heavier than peach and give her a down air foot stomp that spikes, give her Peach’s old melee up air as well. I love Daisy very much as a character outside of smash and yes she’s my waifu and the best princess. But as a character in Smash she’s basically a glorified set of Peach skins with different animations and a voice. That’s how Smash portrays her sadly.
What do you mean "basically"? That's exactly what she is, since she's the one Echo Fighter with absolutely no gameplay differences from the original character.
It definitely felt like a slap in the face to Daisy stans. The attacks just don’t make *sense* for her and making her an echo is barely better than when she “existed” as an alternate Peach skin for years.
…like, she has a presence in the spinoff titles as being more of a tomboy. She only fills “the same slot” in Mariokart where she and Peach have the same special item (and ballgowns). (Whatever. I still drive as Daisy.)
And well. Sure her one (1) nonspinoff franchise game damsels her BUT-technically all the bosses Mario fights (save the final one trying to force her into marriage) are brainwashed nobility. They serve under her, so having them and their gimmicks referenced really wouldn’t be a stretch
Or…just make new attacks, and run with her “rougher” personality + flower aesthetic. Use vines for a grab, damage-dealing pollen clouds, put opponants to sleep with flower fields, etc
She could be an utter *menace*
I want Daisy have new movesets from those spin-offs more than just copying Peach’s stupid crazy movesets :/
I’ve always thought dark pit should have some physical combat moves like kicks. Because I remember in chapter 5 he kicks pit even tho he has a weapon and I thought that was very un pit like, and thought it made him more unique. Maybe replace dash attack, forward throw and forward tilt with kicks.
he also kicked an underworld gatekeeper in chapter 9, taking it out instantly. him having kick moves wouldve been a neat way to add a bit of difference between him and pit
Daisy needs 3 jumps instead of float
Normal jump with a basketball - front flip with a basketball - SLAM DUNK!! (causes a very small amount of damage like a taunt but kind of acts like a meteor but way less affective)
I feel like the whole “give Daisy a move set based on spinoff games” is what they should do to Waluigi if he ever gets added. I can’t think of any other type of move set that would fit other than just standard punches and kicks, and even then what would his final smash even be?
Final Smash: Waluigi Pinball - Waluigi sends the opponent to Waluigi Pinball and they take damage as they bounce around the pinball area and then get finished off by a huge pinball.
@@thebuddyadrian now that sounds awesome, Waluigi pinball track should also be his stage, or maybe a Mario party board
that’s IF he ever gets added. if they pledged or swore on never putting him in smash then why not go ahead and give the spin-off game moveset to daisy, it makes sense for both so
Luigi's Brawl final smash. Need I say more?
@@Demi-Joker i personally don’t see why that makes sense as waluigi’s smash, i just think him attacking the opponent with different sport or party weapons or teleporting them to his pinball thing is way better than a goofy reused dumbass dance
7:37 I don't think this is Corrin's neutral B
"Maybe a stage that fully embraces one area of the game could be included..."
He said, showing a stage that is exactly that.
"What if every echo fighter got a new moveset?"
Then I'd actually play as them.
I still use Lucina & Chrom more than their original lol, though I still love using Roy, he’s fun cause he’s probably the most aggressive character in the game
I get that Daisy was made an echo fighter to please the fans and because she would be easier to put in, but there was so much potential for a unique moveset.
For Lucina I thought of implementing a gimmick where she starts every stock with her mask which would make her play exactly like she currently does in smash but when she reaches high percentage like around 60% she “reveals” her actual self and she gets a new original moveset with powered up attacks
That's a very interesting concept. However I think it would be hard to justify using marth with something like that, which tbf it already is hard to justify using marth over Lucina, but I think with a mechanic like that it would take incredible balancing acts.
10:00 I'm a big Kid Icarus fan and I can assure you... It's 50-50.
Most think think that yes, it does make perfect sense for Dark Pit to be a clone for... Very obvious reasons. Agreeing to it though is not the same as liking it, as yeah, there's missed potential with Uprising weapons.
Not gonna lie, I kinda wish Chrom was in his Tokyo Mirage Sessions design so he could have a sword arm.
Would be a cool alt costume
Daisy and Dark Samus for sure for sure... I also think that the three Links desperately need to be made more unique
Absolutely agree that Daisy needs a new... Everything to change her from being virtually identical to Peach.
I will agree with the changes suggested to Richter, so at least we don't have another virtually identical echo that serves little if any purpose.
Idk or care enough about the fire emblem echos to have a strong opinion on them, apart from feeling like they have too many reps for a series that doesn't feel as big as pokemon or Mario
Dark Samus, Dark Pit, and Ken, at least have elements of uniqueness to them to not have to change too drastically, but extra variety never hurts
As a lover of Kid Icarus Uprising and a Dark Pit main in Smash
Fuck yes.
I do agree with Daisy's moveset, except there would be one thing I would change. I know you added a reference to Strikers with using her torpedo strike from the first Strikers game as her side-B, but I would have made her final smash her mega strike (Crystal Daisy) from Mario Strikers Charged. Her special swing as a special move for her was a nice touch.
I know its been a year since you posted this comment but I totally agrée with you and I think crystallized daisy is a much more powerfull and creative final smash that represents her personality instead of all those Mario party details that are here to remind the Mario series, She is not a representation of Mario games but of herself
Daisy needs a rework, but I don't think a spinoff centric moveset really fits her. I think it'd make more sense for Waluigi because of his goofy, weird nature and the fact that he debuted in the spinoffs
i have some ideas for Richter:
-When he charges his smash attacks to its fullest, he activates Flame Whip, one of his Item Crashes on Rondo of Blood/ Symphony of the Night, making the Smash attack WAAAAY more powerful.
- up air is his Flip double jump, losing the ability to recover but getting the ability to ladder combo.
- i would swap Stopwatch and Holy water.
-and Stopwatch is literally Witch Time but it stops time now.
Congratulations.
You have created the most painful and toxic character ever.
@@penitente3337 i would also make that he can't use other projectiles while one is out
(And the same for Simon)
Better now?
@@BluestCapybara2400 okay that makes it slightly more valid
And the Bible the most broken item on rondo of blood.
@@migelangeldejesusquinterog4584 im sure Sleepy Swampert will use it as his Shield B
The Fire Emblem in Marth's time (Awakening takes place thousands of years later) was used to seal away Earth Dragons. Either Lucina or Chrom could use this to disable foes for a small bit of time. Think of it like kinda like Mewtwo's Disable.
Naga's Flame as a mechanic would work nicely. Either have it like a typical comeback mechanic, or give the ability to charge it at the cost of damage since in Awakening Naga's Flame is a painful trial.
I would make Dark Pit's moveset different, but even so, I agree with these changes. As a Kid Icarus Uprising fan, this is highly appreciated
"they cant use these moves" ness tries not to get noticed
Ness is still one of the worst grievances in the series. Not only is he not the original protagonist (Ninten)-which means he wasn't a good representative of the series in the same way Mario, Marth, or Kazuya were-, but he's also using a moveset not native to his character.
@@ThunderBrine Ness' moveset is supposed to be based off his SERIES, hence why he uses PK Fire and PK Freeze.
@@ThunderBrine I believe "Earthbound / Mother 2" was a lot more popular than the first game in Japan, and it actually had a North American release at the time, hence why Ness got picked over Ninten.
@@ThunderBrine Ninten is not that even known as Ness...
I really like your ideas for Daisy and agree that she deserves a new moveset! I think some idea using the crystals she's associated with from Mario strikers charged could also add to the character
I agree that Daisy is the most deserving of a new moveset.
Here are my ideas for alts:
a) The casual T-shirt used in many Mario Sports games
b) The casual dress used in many Mario Sports games
c) Mario Strikers outfit
d) Biker from MarioKart 8
e) Her swimsuit from various Mario and Sonic at the Olympics games
f) Her princess dress can have one alt
What would probably happen would be 4 of those outfits in their default colors and with one recolor each, my preference being:
P1&4 would be the casual T-shirt, P4 being a purple shirt and blue shorts (referencing Waluigi)
P2&5 would be biker, P5 being light blue (referencing Rosalina)
P3&6 would be Strikers, P6 would feature green (referencing Luigi)
P4&8 would be the dress she currently has, P8 would be similar to Peach
That was a long comment
Daisy should get a triple jump plus the ability to double jump cancel instead of float. Also give her a spike!
For a final smash, I say use daisy's captain super from Mario strikers charged aka "Crystal Smash". It has crazy reach and also gives off a fiery effect and send foes upwards that would be clueless to touch hot crystals
As a daisy main, I would have loved a different kit for her inclusion. Though similar to peach, they aren't the same.
I love the Mario Spin-offs, but save representing that stuff for a character like Waluigi who literally has nothing to work with. Keep the dress or in the most extreme case give her her sports attire as an alt. Make her moves more aggressive than Peach and incorporate only Mario Land stuff. The enemies from Mario Land are all her subjects, just mind controlled by Tatanga, so she could easily have them in her moveset. Biokinton up B, Dragon Zamasu side B, Bombshell Koopa down B similar to Bowser Jr., King Hoyoihoi for her throws. King Totomesu could be her neutral B or give her the Super Ball power up. For her final smash she could bring out the Sky Pop.
For her stage, I could accept a stage based on Daisy's Circuit, Cruise or Hills but really it should be based on a location in Sarasaland.
Actually represent her with Mario Land stuff instead of giving her spin-off references. One of her biggest issues is that Sarasaland and stuff from her game hardly ever get associated with her anymore.
Waluigi isn't as much into sports as Daisy. A lot of her character is that she is very rough and competitive and makes sense to be the rep of spin offs like sports game way more than Waluigi
@@Salemwitchcraft Waluigi literally debuted in a sports spin-off.
@@CometX-ing Still Daisy is mmore centered around sports Waluigi would make sense for a party spin off rep and Daisy for sports spin of rep.
@@Salemwitchcraft she isn’t centered around sports, she’s just a tomboy. People just associate her with sports because Strikers and how she acted in it (even though everyone is over the top). She less centered around sports than Waluigi who literally has his a sports spin-off as his reason for existing.
@@CometX-ing yes well it's more important for reps who are already in smash to get a unique move set that way the arent just taking up slots instead of adding more probably echos like Waluigi that would make people mad.
I agree that Daisy needs a rework but the moveset here sounds pretty toxic with the rng and stuns which, imo, would be more fitting of Waluigi than Daisy
I'd want to focus more on the sporty aspect, mix in a little more Mario to make her feel more tomboyish, and I have a fun gimmick for her;
Overview: Sporty outfit with a cyan Strikers Charged home and away alt. Slightly heavier and faster than Peach, has a third jump instead of float, enters from a warp pipe ala Party. Her stance is more competitive than Peach and her run is closer to Mario's.
Standard attacks are mostly the same as Peach but a touch faster. Her dash replaced with Mario's slide, the golf club swing is moved to down smash (with hit boxes through the entire arc), and side smash is replaced with Ness' reflector baseball bat. Her pummel no longer uses toad but hits with her own crown, and her throws are replaced with Wii Fit's. Her jab could be replaced with Little Mac's as a boxing reference (without the rapid jab), or Mario's three hits.
Neutral Special; Super Ball (Mario Land)
Fires a metal ball 45° diagonally downward; the Super Ball bounces predictably, and has no gravity. Whenever the ball is hit by an attack it gains charge and glows, like a Strikers ball, making it faster and more damaging, and it is sent in a new direction like the football item. She can act out of the attack quickly but can't use the ability again for 1 second; she can have only one Super Ball out at a time and it disappears after 4s of not being hit. If the ball has full charge it explodes on hitting an enemy, otherwise it bounces at a 90° angle.
Up Special; Flower Shot (Mario Tennis)
As per Peach's UpS but using a racket, swirling flowers around her that pull targets inward to the apex. At the top Daisy hits with a strong serve that can be angled.
Side special: Volley Dive (Mario Sports Mix)
Similar to each bomber but with a swan dive animation that leads into a roll on the ground. Can be angled; tilting down aims the attack down (or lowers the jump from the ground) and launches upwards, tilting up aims upward and launches downward.
Down Special: Heart Shield (Mario Kart)
Daisy ducks and sends two hearts spinning around her (one hitbox either side); they each negate one attack over 15% or up to 15% of damage from weaker attacks. If they block a holdable projectile while her hands are empty it is instantly transferred to her as per Rosalina; if one or both hearts are intact at the end of the animation they can each pick up an idle item within about hookshot range.
Gimmick:
All of Daisy's attacks pull the Super Ball towards her if she is within reach; Up and Side launch it, while Neut and Down bring it into her hands (with Neut only doing this when the ball is within item pickup range). The ball can't be picked up in any other way; Daisy holds it like a basketball, dribbling it while running, and can charge-throw it in any direction like a dodgeball. The balls charge can be canceled and stored with a dodge, but it loses charge faster while held and can't be charged over 50% this way.
As an Easter egg, if all players are Daisy then they share the same Super Ball; at the start of the match they automatically use a Mario Party Dice Roll (which is her up taunt) to decide who starts with it in their hand. In this mode Neut B won't replace the ball while it is in play but the ball can be reset if all players use the Dice taunt in a way where they all overlap.
Ultimate: Either the strikers charged or mariokart one, or, if you wanted more Party representation (which really should go to Waluigi) Party Time - Daisy uses a Warp Dice Block that pulls nearby enemies into a cutscene of her playing a Marioparty Minigame, revealing the highest percent foe stunned in an inoppertune place (such as next to an inflatable bowser or the next in line as she passes a lit bob-omb) - the cutscene would be randomly chosen from the dice but always lasts the same time and deals the same damage (although knockback direction could change)
hard agree with your decision haha. she has a lot of history to be a unique fighter drawing off the spin-off games, especially if they never put waluigi in as a fighter.
For Dark Samus I'd also make her taller and her grab could be a tentacle from her off hand which would alow her to do more Brutal throws by blasting them away.
I saw Mario Party DS, I immediately liked the video.
I'm surprised you didnt put the somersault for chrom or Lucina's cause that's interesting for a side B
Honestly all of them would be nice to be not echo fighters, what's the point of having them in when they ain't original
Plus that could help the Fire Emblens characters stand out more and wont be AS disliked
Also you didnt talk about Ganondorf, the guy that needs a change
Fire emblem will be disliked no matter what, personally I still hate byleth for various reasons
The reason we have echo fighters is becaause that was the only way they could be included. Echo fighters are mostly based off of other fighter's models and animations, meaning the work needed to make them was far less than a completely original character that needs to be made from scratch.
Controversial, but I personally enjoy Fire Emblem characters. It's my opinion and someone took it too far with saying someone deserves to die for being excited for Byleth. Also I think Ganondorf isn't because he is not an Echo Fighter.
I absolutely love the Fire Emblem characters personally, especially Lucina, Chrom, & male Corrin, I think they’re very fun & have interesting personalities in their home games
@@CrazyHand7894 I'd rather have originality over copies of other characters
These move sets sound like something the smash team would come up with. Good job
Chrom with the Gradivus!?!?! Dude that would be so hype, I’m in 👍
considering gradivus appears in shadow dragon and gaiden, and awakening takes place two milennia later, i just imagine chrom digging up an ancient weapon so he can use it in smash. sure, historians could have a great use for it, and it could be displayed in a museum for all to see, but chrom needs a more diverse moveset, dangit
@@Underworlder5
I'm pretty sure it was in Awakening too. I think in that mission where you fight some reanimated guys and they all drop legendary S rank weapons like Mystletainn among others.
I really like daisy’s move set it works pretty well and reflects her game appearances pretty well
It would be better if it weren't *exactly the same* as Peach's! I mean, even Dark Samus is slightly different in her dodging ability, while Lucina doesn't have the tipper mechanic, but Daisy has absolutely no changes whatsoever as far as gameplay goes! She might as well be a more detailed version of the alt costume for Peach that she was in the previous games.
Why is it when folks think of a non-Echo moveset for Daisy, they always default to spin-off stuff and not Super Mario Land stuff, or include it. Her Final Smash can be the Sky Pop, Neutral B be the Superball, various other enemies can be part of the moves so on and so forth
I get what you mean but for me it's mainly about making her unique and showcasing more content from popular Mario sub series since Smash doesn't represent Mario Party nearly at all
I feel like echos fighters are a wasted potential but it’s better than not having the characters in
This is something that concerns me about Echo Fighters: that status might make it difficult for them to be differentiated from their source character. We can see this with Dark Pit and Lucina, who weren't changed from Pit and Marth from Smash 4 to Ultimate. Previous clone characters, like Luigi, Falco, Roy, etc., have been given new moves and identities over many installments. But if a character is introduced as an Echo, can they graduate?
To be fair no new games with those characters have appeared that have more notable things to pull from to differentiate them.
Luigi had the benefit of Luigis Mansion and Roy and Falco are older characters therefor are more in line for changes.
Fair point, but Daisy and Dark Samus still deserve more differentiating than they have (or any, in Daisy's case) while still fitting the mold of Echo Fighters.
i think dark pit, dark samus, ken, and chrom will not be able to graduate however daisy, lucina, and richter have more history and have more potential with new movesets
Why couldn't they graduate? Assist trophies have graduated. Trophies have graduated. Previous clones became not-clones. Nothing says that "echo" status has to stick for the rest of the series. I don't think it's anything to worry about (whether there'll be another Smash game in any reasonable period of time is something more to worry about).
I think Daisy should be a semiclone rather than a full-on clone. Her sharing many of her normal moves with Peach is fine and make sense to me, but most of her special moves are things that only Peach does and don't fit Daisy all that much. Floating is also a Peach-specific ability, so for Daisy I'd replace it with an extra midair jump, referencing her unique ability to double jump in Super Mario Run. Losing the floating ability is a huge nerf but Daisy could make up for it by being faster than Peach and having stronger attacks, as well as being able to inflict the damaging flower status on opponents when using moves with flower effects.
Wake up mom New Siiroth Video. Fr though good choice for putting daisy on the thumbnail she has the most missed potentional for an orginial moveset.
It would be nice if you did a collab with Aaronitmar
Omg yes
The dream collab please!
Dark Pit as an echo makes the most sense of any echo. After all, he's literally a copy of Pit. He plays almost identically to Pit in Kid Icarus: Uprising. He does get Pandora's powers to heal him and give him unlimited flight, but that's the only difference. Just making him Pit with some different weapons makes the most sense.
Except there's hundreds of weapons and powers in KIU to draw from on top of Dark Pit's whole character arc being about how he doesn't like being a clone of Pit and wants to be his own person. Even if you did stick to the Silver Bow, there's still powers he could be using and Bow attacks from KIU that don't get used in Smash such as the Dash Attack or the actual Bow combo attack as well as Pit's old moves in Brawl.
Oh yeah, I think Dark Pit should bring in some other weapon classes from Uprising for sure, especially the ones that he uses in Chapter 6.
As much of a Lucina & Chrom fan I am I have to agree with Daisy being the top character to need a new move set, she’s unplayable to me in her current state because of her current move set, if I really wanted to use that move set I’ll just use Peach, but I’ll really like to see these changes, I’m kinda tired of Lucina (me) being considered a watered down or an unskilled Marth!!
Thanks for making this! I’ve always wondered about echo fighters being more!
Instead of the dice I’d give her the super ball from Mario land. Which is a fast and weaker shot put attack that bounces and does less damage with each bounce but will keep going like a baseball item
I think Lucina's final Smash should've included the other future kids from Awakening, but I do like the final Smash you chose.
When it comes to the Belmont Bros., I like the idea of buffing moves of Simon's that originated in his games, and buff moves of Richter's that originated in his.
For example, the whip attacks of the Belmonts' forward tilt, forward air, jab, and forward smash came from Simon, so his version of those moves would be buffed. The dash attack, down tilt, up special, and final smash debuted with Richter, so those could be buffed for him.
maybe make that whip dangle actually useful. it was a valuable tool in castlevania 4
i will say that I think tying in the time travel thing a s a cutscene final smash for Lucina would be interesting to me, it puts her higher in the list for me. Her whole arch of coming back to save her father, and the cutscene of her pretending to be some 'timeless hero' who saves those who need to be saved in the need of the revived is something that could make a cool final smash cutscene, you see her in her mask, it cracks while she fights these undead, and the enamys on the field are seen as these figures that don't belong, just cutsceneing away and breaking all of them and cutting through them as she did in the story
that feels right to me. her being a copy of marth makes sense because she tried to be like him so no one could tell the difference, but having moves based on the awakening game would make me happier than warriors to an extent, yes, warriors expands on more moves she could have, but I think, Chrom and Lucina alike, they don't need 100% unique moves, they would be the candidates of "Coustom moves from 3ds" they have their own variations of the moves from Marth with each of them having their own special smash.
that's what I would consider good for those two characters, cutting out the falcion, would be like cutting out a main part of them, its the only weapon they use mainly besides the non 'cannon' I say that loosely I don't like warrior games. that they use, it is a weapon passed down through the generation. i think them using that weapon to their own ability fits 100%
I will say, I know there are a lot of Fire emblem characters in smash, I don't think either of these deserve the top spot they function as is... i just .. story wise it would be pleasing for these changes to happen, even for chrome to have an existential crisis smash or something, the game has materiall they didn't pull from and it makes me sad.
3:30 in the non-profit fan made game of Smash (SSFlash2), Waluigi has that as his neutral B!
I really wish Lucina was a unique fighter instead of an echo, and instead Chrom was her echo.
Chrom taught her how to use a sword, so she should ne his.
Great work! Now do one for the original echo fighter: Dr. Mario.
For Ken the only real change I could see would be his tatsumaki becoming his sfV heavy tatsumaki (he jumps at the start and only starts swinging and going slightly down at the middle of the dash).
I agree! Daisy has so much more potential!!
Ken having a gauge when Ryu doesn't would make them feel to be from separate series.
the bosses of Super Mario Land are normally under daisy's command, in the game they are hypnotized by Tatanga so that's why they attack Mario. So it makes sense if they help her fighting.
After watching three of your videos I love your content, you have earned my subscription
I agree Daisy definitely needs it the most.
10:21
I honestly believe dark pit has one of the best chances of getting a different move-set, considering how many weapons is in kid Icarus uprising. Just give him the dark pit staff and change it according to it. For example, like changing the n-special to be a hard precise shot that works similar to ROB’s n-special. If you don’t like that idea, there’s tons of other weapons in the game that could be used.
For Chrom, I'd combine him with Robin to make a duo character like Melee Sheik and Zelda. To make the two mesh better, I'd remove Robin's durability system and Levin/Bronze sword make his moves all tome-based. That way you can play around with Robin being the zoner of the duo and Chrom being the rushdown.
Lucina could then serve as an echo to Chrom, bringing along Robin's child Morgan to stand in as their echo.
Simon was the Belmont in Super Castlevania 4 and in that game, he can whip in all 8 cardinal directions. The way I'd do it is that he can whip downward if he inputs a f-air (← or → + A then ↓) and keeping his n-air. He can also whip diagonally up the direction he's facing so his forward tilt can work in the same way.
Honestly one of my most wanted characters for the final DLC is a move set redo of daisy.
I might get hate for this, but if I was making Smash 6, I'd cut Daisy and remake Peach's moveset to incorporate Perry from Super Princess Peach. It's her one solo adventure and basing her kit on that isn't crazy
Dark Pit:
Orge Club
Violet Palm(Smash Attacks)
Ez Cannon
Pandora's Flight
Silver Bow(Aerials and throws)
Dark Pit Staff(Nuetral Special & as a Final Smash remains)
Rant:
Dark Pit Staff kills at 0% at ledge with either and Backthrow or Fowardthrow. Many people agreed that's it's one of the best Final Smash since it's one of the few to have 0 to death. Also it's based off the Staff Special Attack in Air Battles.
It's unique in Ultimate but not in Smash 4. It's boring but practical.
Give Lucina her custom moves:
Crescent Slash
Ila Counter
Don't get me wrong, I love Ken, but I feel that ryu could be the old street fighter rep and Ken be the new one. There hasn't been a street fighter game in ages without ex meter. If we remove his connection to sf2 and model him more off 3/4/5 it could be cool.
idk I just wanna confirm into ex shoryu and kill at 50% lol don't @ me
I find it disappointing that you didn't mention daisy's earth attacks from mario strikers charged. That makes for at least an easy down b and final smash. Earth pillars rise from the ground as a down b, and anyone who gets hit with a backflip kick gets launched into the air and she makes a crystal fist to punch her opponents into the blast zone from the side.
Your videos never gets old
I wouldn’t change a thing with Dark Pit and Chrom’s final smashes. But I would for the other six.
For Ryu and Ken:
Ryu can put fire in his Hadoken
Ken can put fire in his Shoryuken
The fact that Ken cannot normally do fiery hadokens is what separates him with Ryu
I like the idea of Daisy having a sports moveset while if Waluigi were to ever be added, he would have more of a reference to the party/spinoff games like Mario Party or maybe Mario Kart. Though, if we never got Waluigi, I would love your idea instead.
Daisy is one of my favourite Mario characters specifically because of her personality in the sports games, it was so disappointing when she ended up being an echo of peach, since the moveset does not fit her whatsoever
It's really cool seeing an alternate idea for a moveset, and I really hope that if the echos make it into another game that they're given more individuality
For Richter they could also change his Nair to the roundhouse kick seen in Portrait of Ruin.
I’m liking the dice block idea but to keep it more consistent I’d make it just a stat buff with the exceptions being 1 making you weaker, and 10 giving you the big powerful chainchomp whilst the rest are just varying degrees of Buster/Smash Monado Arts.
I’d think it’ll be best to remove Daisy’s float but replace it with a third jump. Referencing her double jump in Mario Run.
I like your ideas and concepts but I believe these changes furthers them from echos, as they're suppose to be easy to make and like the orginals with some small changes
Daisy, Richter and lucina did get horrible treatment due to very minor changes. I think echos should retain a majority of the tilts and theme as their orginal counter parts however the changes I think would make sense and acceptable for the game designers are: echos should have a different speed dynamic ( either faster weaker or slower stronger), give them one unique special like peach pulling turnups and daisy pulls the random mario party dice like you stated, change the dynamic to another existing special like Richters up b will go way higher then Simon but be a weaker single hit rather then the shorter stronger mulitihit. And finally final smashes should at least give the echo a more better cut scene style focused on their orginal appearance from their game.
This will help keep echos as echos while giving them a twist of semi uniqueness that won't tax or make a developer work harder for essentially a freebie for us. I wish smash would of gave is an echo fighter pass it would of been perfect to help promote the echos and give more easy representation for franchise who don't have much.
More echo fighters deserve the Ness/Lucas treatment. Similar foundations without the fear of being distinct.
I agree in regard to Ken, no real changes are needed with him. He's pretty accurate to how he is in Street Fighter.
The only change I would do to both him and Ryu is just the option to input commands for their Final Smashes. Say, in Ryu's case for example; have Shinku Hadouken be ⬇️↘️➡️⬇️↘️➡️ + A while far from the opponent, and Shin Shoryuken would be ⬇️↘️➡️⬇️↘️➡️ + A while close to the opponent. Same for Ken's Final Smashes. I would like that a lot!
Really, they should have had one super art as a final smash and another with a super meter
@@KaitouKaiju Eh, maybe. But if they still have two final smashes (assuming Ryu and Ken return for the next Smash, which might be possible) Then I would appreciate it if they had inputs for their final smashes at the very least. Hell, maybe make it so that the final smashes are stronger with the inputs.
@@marplatense31 that is the exact input for buster wolf, so the technology is there
@@Underworlder5 Yup, just gotta give it to Ryu and Ken too...
5:36 actually, most of the enemies from that game were hypnotized subjects.
Next a new move set for all clones
5:27 biokinton is actually not a villain, he along with all the other enemies in the game are actually sarasaland citizens that were brainwashed by tatanga.
I always wanted Daisy and I always pictured her own final smash as the background being filled with water like in a tsunami on which her boat would be making it's way to the center of the stage
Daisy should have the triple jump like Super Mario Run!
Instead of floating!😖
I feel like its wrong for daisy to get the party dice as it isnt exclusive to her or very important to her
A year later and the dagger throw for the belmonts has been implemented in character overall mods, fantastic!