Clarification: While the Intel Core Ultra 7 155H can be configured up to a 65W TDP, it was running in the mid-30s during our testing on this device both in productivity and in games, for example reaching an average of 36W in performance mode during our Cyberpunk benchmark. We apologize for not including this information in the video. Thank you for watching! Sign up for an account at grammarly.com/LTT02. If you want to get access to extra features, get 20% off Grammarly Premium.
Old naming scheme worked quite well for the desktop CPU's. There's a reason why AMD basically copied that naming scheme. But intel did such a bad job at naming their laptop cpu's.
@@Liinuli. In this case i feel like intel copied AMD Or at the least felt like they needed to change since AMD did AMD changed their mobile naming to be horribly confusing And now intel did the same Honestly should have just kept the old scheme on both platforms
I mean it wasn't that confusing, everyone including my mum knew that bigger number meant better and that there was i3 i5 i7. The only clarification I had to do was pointing out that no your i7 5820 isn't faster than a new i5 12600, because generations exists
PLEASE put some icons in the graphs. Just an intel/AMD/Apple logo will go a long way. I constantly have to look back and forth to see which number is which laptop. If a logo is in my peripheral vision while looking at the bars, that would help a huge amount.
You can know for sure that battery will be worse, that Intel chip can consume by default double (65W) of the AMD (28W) and in turbo (117W) almost 5 times the AMD chip typical consumption (28W) and well the Apple chip is more efficient than the AMD one but consumes similar (average is like 25-28W and maximum usually 30W for general purpose and 47.5W for CPU workload). So yeah battery life will not be great. If the laptop allows it, the maximum for that AMD (58W) will be still half the turbo of that Intel CPU (117W) and well at that amount of consumption the Apple one will beat in efficiency both of them (48W). Not fair comparison or at least incomplete since they are missing a key point, not a hater, but those are the facts, I have seen LTT for a decade and this is bad. Also ignoring the fact that Ryzen 8000 for laptop is launching now and will beat even more Intel and get closer to Apple.
@@lefthornet using a 7840u was a wrong comparison honestly, I would have used at least a 7845hs, which has a 15% multi core performance increase over the U, and is more on line with the 155H avg consumption
I'm super proud of what we've been able to do with Meteor Lake. Just like with Alchemist, this is a 1st-gen attempt at something really new from the old ways at Intel. I would expect some of your gaming stutter and encoding to go away with the full TDP. MTL is meant to be performant in areas that last gen wasn't, such as the iGPU and NPU, while maintaining competition with Ryzen 8000 and M3 where last gen did well. It looked like you laptop was pulling some punches, as as you mentioned, it was capped around 36W while the 1370P can draw 64W quite comfortably. I would expect to match the 1370P at 55W. I am more than happy to take questions about anything. For the NPU vs GPU question, that's entirely the expected and intended behavior. Think of the NPU like an E-core for the GPU when doing I/O. The tiles are my point of pride though. I'm not an architect in any form. I don't make cores or GPUs or anything like that. I worked on the physical interconnects between the tiles, and let me tell you guys, there's interesting stuff in there I wish I could talk about more. Hopefully I'll get to put a paper out on this around the launch window of Lunar Lake. When you mentioned modularity, I would like to point out that the sizes of tiles are not set in stone.
Just to reiterate for that bit at 2:13. CONSISTENT FRAMES > HIGHER FRAMES I will always take 30fps over 60 that's constantly dipping to 5 or 10 every couple of seconds
It would have been more fair to run the intel laptop on vulkan as well, considering apple runs on that. In vulkan It would have destroyed the competition even in 1% lows.
Small rant here but I feel like part of the reason why that older video did so good was because it was easily searchable. I’m not a fan of how LTT has been labeling their videos in the last few years since it’s hard to tell what the video actually is. This one’s better but if your earlier video was titled “Luke’s new 2024 gaming PC” It would have 100% gotten a click from me but I totally skipped over it. Also I’m slightly scared I’m already shadowbanned for these mild takes so if someone could give a thumbs up or comment here that would be awesome.
Not shadowed 🤷♂️ And I agree, the naming of their videos has been a bit of a miss recently, I’ve gone to look for specific things a few times and can never find them easily anymore.
This actually proves their point. The interconnects are much better designed here and not "glued together". They were never bashing multiple chips on a die, they were criticizing the amateurish design of "infinity fabric" which is a cool way to refer to slapping them together in a very low-performance design. There's a reason Intel kept up in performance with 2x the process node size of AMD and it's because AMD's architecture is garbage.
A quick note - single precision FLOPs/Watt is the current battle in the ML space. The price of SoA models training is now dominated by the electricity draw, just as their cost in inference, so any saves there, even at a price of lower performance is what matters. So if you want to benchmark NPUs, showing power draw and inference speed on a set of standard models is what will be most interesting to people who need them or want to integrate into their software.
I'd advocate for doing a bit of coloring for the Y-axis on the charts. We're seeking out the Intel Core Ultra 7 155H (Std. and Perf. Mode) by reading 5 lines of white text some. The video is all about that though so why can't the processor's name be in yellow or something to quickly say "hey it's this one/it's these two look here" faster so we can shift our attention to the bars. Even the bars could have distinct coloring but that might be too loud looking idk.
I think having different color bars is a great idea. Makes it super readable. Especially if they say "Core Ultra is Blue, apple is red, last gen Intel is green" or something like that.
@@FinneasJedidiah It would be even better if they kept re-using the same colours for different companies, though. Intel is blue, Nvidia is green, AMD is red and Apple is... black, like their logo?
A colouring scheme would be nice, but pausing the video to view charts in more detail is also possible. A colouring scheme would be nice even with the paused video, but the consequences aren't as bad as the OP makes it seem.
Adding color is just adding more to the chart to fix a problem they are creating instead of just fixing the actual problem directly. Although different colors wouldn't hurt. The problem is they sort the chart based on performance, which means you do not know what each bar represents at a glance because number 1 in one chart is different then number 1 in another chart. We can distinguish a big bar from a small bar at a glance, so ordering the results by something that is already easily distinguishable is pointless. Just keep each product (cpu in this case) in the same spot so when we see that bar 3 is biggest (or smallest) we already know what product that is without having to look every time because it is the same on every chart.
It's nice to see LTT taking Apple seriously now that they deserve it. Obviously some of the older thinner Intel MacBooks really didn't have a place in a video like this and I don't blame them for not including them but it's nice to see now that Apple is competitive in this field, that they're not just being completely ignored.
I suspect that was on purpose. In terms of heat, even the U series hits 57W TDP at full boost which is significantly higher than it's closest AMD and Apple competition. Given the performance, I think we can safely say it's much less power efficient.
That was honestly suprising, and does make this kind of a useless video. Everyone knows that the 12th-14th generation cpu's have had pretty bad efficency experiences especially on the laptop, that was literally the first thing I wanted to know when I saw that there was a new intel cpu on the laptop.
They're comparing completely seperate laptops, not just the CPU. It'd be pretty impossible to get anything useful out of it, in terms of apples-to-apples
From my testing against an i7 1360P and 13700H, you can expect MTL to match performance with a 38W 1360P at 20-25W, and match the 45-50W 13700H at 35-42W. As for battery life, the ASUS Zenbook 14 I am testing the 155H in routinely pulls out 10+ hour days at work and I've gotten a full 8-hour fligh's worth of movie watching and blog post writing done on it already.
Wait until they would need to ditch clocks altogether and went to asynchronous systems to gain any significant performance uplift. That would mean return to architecture that remember Soviet union in it's hay days.
I want my baby back baby back baby back I want my baby back baby back baby back I want my baby back baby back baby back Baaaaaabyyyyyyy, Baby Faced Tipssss
I really appreciate the focus red dot thing for the graphs, one of the better solutions I have seen for highlighting relevant information in graphs. Good job!
Personally I prefer far more the GN approach of the "shades" walking around graphs showing exactly whats being talked about at that moment. LTT graphs are kinda "one dimensional", and those random focus dots - can kinda "disappear" from my vision when I focus like 80% of my eyes on trying to read which model is which position.
I was going to point out the same thing. the only thing that may prevent direct comparisons is if the software for testing isnt on both platforms. eitherway slight oversight by LTT on this.
Not just the M3, AMD’s mobile parts have had NPU’s for over a year now and they just ignored it. Their second gen ones just came out that promise to be 60% faster than Intel’s
@@creativeanvil2783 ML accelerators tend to have different support for different precision levels (fp32, bf16, int8, etc.), and memory bandwidth vs compute can both be bottlenecks depending on workload, so it's actually very hard to compare them in general as opposed to on a specific benchmark. That said, they could have run or cited MLPerf.
@BIGbearrrrrfor training yes, but you can convert PyTorch and TensorFlow models to CoreML, which allows you to do inference on the neural engine on Apple devices. Including iPhones and iPads. I’m not an expert on the bottlenecks with the NE, but it’s my understanding that it’s significantly faster than the GPU with quite a few models
Did they really compare a high performance 65W max TDP CPU against an efficiency oriented CPU 30W max TDP (according to AMD website)? Also no efficiency mentioned in a laptop CPU review/"explained" video?
I bought the 7840HS equipped lenovo ideapad pro 5 with 32gb lpddr5 6400, with 75whr battery and 14' 1800p ips screen I can get upto 8 hours of light to medium work and can game at 1200p or 1050p and if I need any more gaming power 7840hs also supports USB4 40GBPS so yeah I recommend 7000hs @@redgopnik2227
Got a suggestion for making the graphs easier to absorb when using multiple applications to test performance. Example 3:32 - 3:34 It would be great if y'all could maintain the same order of the devices from top to bottom across the graphs. It is a little unintuitive to have to constantly re-read the order of devices on the y-section of the graph. :D
As a regular viewer I am fine with the "investment disclosure" thing, but a new viewer would not be able to understand at all what it means. Maybe write some details on screen, otherwise the disclosure is basically useless (the ones who already know, already know, and the ones who don't know, won't know). Also, sometimes it would be nice to have the laptops in the same spots in the various plots instead of always reordering them, it would make them much more readable during the video.
@@ilovelol2642You can't buy the stock as it's not publicly traded. Because of this Linus isn't legally obligated to disclose it, but chooses to do so based upon the potential conflict of interest involved with reviewing, analysing and concluding on other laptops as well as Framework models. It's not to indicate whether the product is good or bad, Framework has it's own merits and drawbacks compared to competitors, but it's more to make it clear that he has a vested interest financially speaking. A laptop is a personal purchase which should involve spending time finding the right option for you, rather than basing it off of investments made by people in the industry.
If by "it" you mean the disclosure, it just means Linus is personally an investor in Framework. He seems to be remaining unbiased but even still, regarding that particular model of laptop, verify from another source (and I think he would say the same thing.)@@ilovelol2642
@@ilovelol2642 I think OP's talking about the Framework investment disclosure. Linus owns a stake in Framework, and LTT videos are supposed to disclose that when Framework laptops are involved. This video just said (and flashed on the screen) "INVESTMENT DISCLOSURE" with no details, so people that don't already know of Linus's relationship with Framework get exactly zero context.
There isn't a strict legal requirement to disclose such a conflict of interest in this kind of video (i.e. not doing so isn't going to get anybody in legal trouble with securities regulators or yt, though it would probably backfire bigly credibility-wise), but if there was, just flashing the word "disclosure" with no details or link to them, is insufficient The whole idea of liking a product meaning the company is 'a good investment' is banal dumbed down logic missing a mention of a lot of intermediary steps, it is contradictory to the supposed point of this video which is to educate
Apple isn't reducing specs to cut costs, its to build in obsolescence. The elements that make their devices sub-par are designed to make the consumer have to replace the device sooner. You pair an increased need for paging with soldered NAND and RAM, and you get a device that will outright fail sooner. So when they upcharge for either of those you're paying for longevity, or more accurately space between times you have reason to give them more of your money.
is that why apple devices last the longest and why apple are shown to be the most reliable major hardware manufacturer (third party calculated too)? Microsoft comes out last by the way. I have had 3 surface laptops and 2 dells. Yeah. never again.
@@ZeerakImran I can only hope you're joking. Yea a $500 windows based laptop is a piece of shit that isn't gonna last a year let alone a decade, but at Apple's price points a comparable windows laptop tend to hold up equally when it comes to hardware. Software is where Apple fails miserably as they'll cut you off from OS updates before the end of the decade while Microsoft basically places an ankle high wall between you and the next version of windows no matter how old your CPU is.
@@ZeerakImranPerhaps tell that to someone that doesn't fix them for a living, and sees all common and ridiculous ways they actually happen to fail. It's a bigger and more costly headache to get them fixed, or to recover data. Made even worse by the Apple store's universal default of pricing (or denying) the repair at a point designed to push you toward a new device. Apple's practices is the biggest reason why right to repair had to be legislated for such devices. The only things in Apple's laptop designs that are genuinely superior is how they reduce mechanical failures. Like the hinge mounting, and the magsafe connector. Memory, storage, and the much of the electronics are made by the same companies PC OEMs use, and have similar rates of failure. Now Apple silicon does rely on memory being physically close to the SOC, which legitimizes it's soldering, but they started that on their Intel based systems after 2014. There is zero excuse for then proprietary and now soldered storage.
I'm getting an unusual amount of low end audio rumble in this video, like lack of pop filter but more than that. I have a very large/sensitive sub, but this does not happen in other LTT videos.
... Do you have crossovers? Have you tuned those subs properly to the space? Do you have a mixer and eq available? If not do you know how to use EQ in windows? Sounds like user error mate my subs have no overbearing low end, it sounds more natural than normal. MORE natural. Cancel Reply Cancel Reply
@@donatedfleaUseless advice from someone pretending to understand audio. Classic. The audio in this video is off, it’s even noticeable one a phone speaker
The low rumble has always been an issue and I kept bugging Sam about this, but apparently he wasn't able to get through to whoever mixes audio for LMG. I guess they just have a preset chain of plugins that was set up once many years ago and then never touched. I'm pretty sure they don't have an employee for this, so nobody feels like it's their job to take care of it and/or probably most lack a proper playback system and knowledge to fix it.
I got the Asus ZenBook 14 OLED with the Ultra 9 185H (45W TDP) this week and it is amazing. It can power down to 3W on the CPU in HWINFO. Absolutely amazing battery life. Performance is great in Windows 11. Gaming absolutely possible. And the 2880x1800px OLED touchscreen is a blast. Super happy with it.
cool video, for me missing is the power draw for the tasks for each chips, like you said naming schemes are confusing and for me comparing intel H series with an U series is from a price point a good comparison but if one is drawing 28W and the other 15W then it is a little off especially as it is not a laptop review but a chip review. as a viewer I don't know how much the M3 or the 1370P draws and it would have been nice to know, I didn't say the chips were the wrong chips, but for me this context was missing completely and for me the video is not satisfying like this. but maybe it is just me
From another comment of mine: You can expect a 25W 155H to match up with the 1360P at 38W, and a 155H at 35-42W to match up with a 45W+ 13700H. Power draw for this chip is a 28W TDP and 64W max boost power, with very short spikes above that allowed as is the case with most laptop CPUs.
So glad ARC graphics has gotten usable now. I bought an A380 (intended for a HTPC & encoding) and A750 LE early on to play with. The A750 was pretty buggy/slow for most games near release and I switched back to my RX6800 (and shortly after a 7900XTX). I kept the A750 as sort of a collectors thing or assuming performance improved, could use it for a friend/family machine. But, when the 4080 Super was close to being launched I popped the A750 back in while trying to sell the 7900XTX and was pleasantly surprised that I could play most games at mid-low presets and still maintain a playable ~60 FPS @ 1440p, and even faster with XeSS. Idle & desktop power consumption also got better since launch too. Will be nice when their graphics division really gets dialed in. AAA games on a thin/light(ish) laptop playing 60 FPS+ at 1080+ and medium settings would be awesome. And hopefully wreck AMD/Nvidia's mid-low end pricing schemes, forcing their whole line to shift down to reality.
Not saying it's bad at gaming, at it's price point it's great, but Intel's A380 is more than anything an absolute godsend to streamers. It made having a dedicated encoding GPU viable again depending on what streaming app you're using. Game on your main GPU and encode on the A380 for a smaller performance loss. Also the damm thing runs on slot power so you won't need a PSU with an extra set of "GPU" power connectors to install it in an existing system.
It was this searching that got me to watch this channel in the first place and I subscribed. Still watching even if I am not smart enough to know what you talk about but it is worth watching.
Very impressive to see MacBooks have this trajectory in performance. Nice to see the M series MacBooks get their representation as a M1 MacBooks User. Still one of the fastest laptops I use today and it’s been 2 years.
You really shouldn't expect things to be much faster in just a couple of years... If you look past the marketing, each new generation of product just isn't that different than the last
Disagree and think you all have incredibly shitty speakers or pods and zero knowhow how to tweak audio. It sounds perfectly audible and all frequencies covered on every system and speaker in my house. Im an audio engineer. Lol.
@@donatedflea If you seriously can't hear the awful quality of this video, especially compared to the last one they put out, you should re-think your career choice. Or maybe get a better set of speakers?
5:24 don't make assumptions that CQ is absolute - many things impact it - even number of threads, since x264 poorly multithreads, so most of the performance comparisons on it are pointless tbh. Use parallel encoder (like AV1AN), and then you can measure quality difference (imo PSNR is alright, but use ssimulacra2 and vmaf if you want to satisfy all people with perceptual metrics). I know the usecase sounds quite specific then, but you would want to quantify performance properly, just like games being run 1080p on top shelf processors.
0:30 I assume that the U chips are the low power mobile CPU's, and that part of the denomination has not changed. Can we stop and admire for a moment that Intel managed to go back to "dualcore" again on mobile chips? Yes, I know I am counting only performance cores, but those are the ones that matters when the system is getting hammered down. But I'd like to argue that the whole point of quadcore on laptops was not only for background tasks, but also because that power is used when you hammer down your computer, and is not uncommont to happen, even if by virtue of a poorly written ap, or a decent amount of tabs in the background.
I have no idea why they didn't go with a simple 'core' prefix for U series and 'ultra' for H series. Core for thin and light, Ultra for workstations or heavier gaming laptops. Not this confusing mess!
no they are not intel can say otherwise this thing still can turbo with a 115w tdp @@__aceofspades Processor Base Power 28 W Maximum Turbo Power 115 W Minimum Assured Power20 W Maximum Assured Power65 W
The NPU is basically the new Purevideo, Clear Video, and UVD. A new hardware accelerated feature to lighten the load of a particular process by paralleling the operation into it's own segment of the CPU. It's happening again, cramming more features into the CPU and improving it along with literally everything else at the same time while More's law is not as effective as it once use to be. If both AMD and Intel go into this, who will make CPUs without NPUs? Maybe they can offer separate line ups without NPUs to get even more out of regular CPUs, cause that's what I want.
Hey just a note about the graphs, In this video you made a point of putting the best on top sometimes but in others it was alphabetical or something. Can you just pick an order and stick with it? It's difficult to follow the information on a particular computer when it keeps moving around the bar graphs.
There's something very wrong with the audio for sure. I had this video in the background and it made me check if my cables weren't plugged in all the way.
The industry standard for benchmarking machine learning systems is the MLPerf / MLCommons benchmark. They provide benchmarks for training and inference on different scales of systems.
im not sure what it is that is different but the recent videos have felt to me higher in quality (im sure has something to do with longer production times) i was wondering tho if anyone else has noticed this. cause to me its cool to see a channel as big as ltt still changing up there editing style to see what works best and to bring up the quality!
@@donatedfleaThe video audio quality is very bad compared to their other videos, your headphones might just not be good enough to hear a difference. Bad source audio quality can’t magically be fixed by “tweaking”.
OMG that explanation of the Intel nomenclature! The main reason I have purchased only AMD chips over the past 10 years is that I don't want to risk buying the "wrong" Intel SKU.
Sorry, but I feel like I have not learned anything, maybe more about Apple than anything actual useful for day to day about the new Intel CPUs. Also you refered only to the 155h and did not takl about the 135h much or the messed up U-line-up where all CPUs seem the same. And even more, you did not even mention efficiency outside of the NPU. This is not an explanation, just an emtpy overview with some benchmarks. If you put benchmarks in it, do it right or leave them be for the final review. This does not feel like the renewed and better LTT.... I hope the acutal review if it comes to that is more satisfying.
"Framework investment disclosure" could be expanded on, you could mention with the on-screen text something like "Linus owns some Framework". Now it kinda looks like LTT/LMG has invested in them.
So are we really just going to ignore power draw in laptop benchmarks, or what? All other reviews I've seen Intel gets destroyed by AMD in performance per watt, and Apple is even farther ahead.
I know right? I really wanted to see how putting the decoding and super-low-power core so close to each other would impact the classic youtube battery test.
@@MattSitton the difference between u and hs isnt that noticable as it is only base clock and wattagae that is different. The u is more dominant in the thin and light segment. But everything depends on the specific laptops power delivery.
Constructive criticism: On the graphs, put the CPU (the things we are talking about) front and centre, and the machine it was tested on below in brackets. It's not reasonable to expect everyone to know which laptop has which cpu at first glance, and as this is not a video ABOUT any of those laptops, it should especially be about the cpu first and foremost.
exactly. all of those laptops are very different from one another and target different audiences. They all have different ram speeds, disk speeds, cooling systems and so on. All of that though is understandable if they say that these are the current options for buyers. But then when they bring the prices up of the laptops, that all goes out the window again. We're paying for different things. One of the laptops is designed to last for a decade with great build quality, hardware and amazing free software, another which is modular and designed to last longer (let's say currently in beta and first gen), and the others are your standard glue together whatever specs and sell it for the price that the users would buy those specs for. Also, I'm assuming they are using the m3 macbook pro with a base m3 processor and comparing it to the high end processors of intel. Their justification being price (which I have already thrown out of the window (are they going to factor the price of my data being taken by MS in their calculations too?)). Sure. If its price, then why not compare it to a m1 pro from years ago. You can buy one that is second hand for £1200 in the UK (20% vat was charged in this price originally too) and they won't be able to tell me whether its brand new or not. You can get a macbook air m2 refurbished (apple refurbished is still better than other manufacturer's brand new for reliability and aging) for £900. That's £400 cheaper than the ones in the video and then they could have brought up how that laptop doesn't have a fan and lasts forever. Literally the whole point of these processors. Otherwise we could just be using 12th gen i9s. I have to be honest. LinusTechTips has always been pro windows boo everything else. But this video kind of seems like the bias has to do with the framwork laptop and not painting it for what it is. I don't think it's malicious though. I don't think its intentional. Just wishful and naturally biased due to the emotional connection. Also if they really want to compare the laptops as opposed to the processors, see what happens when you unplug the charger. What happens to the benchmarks then? The least they could do is mention this stuff so that the audience is aware. Educate rather than influence.
Yeah.. plus the 30-odd watts drawn vs the the 64w possible... it feels like a pretty flipping hardcore CPU that's getting shafted review-wise for whatever reason(s)..
You also mean one that can also turbo to 115w if allowed. Power draw information really should have been included and not just a chart showing how long playback of a video would last on battery while all other tests run plugged in, so much for the superior Labs results.
Intel's naming scheme has become quite complex and confusing. Exciting to see some meaningful advancements with the meteor Lake, especially with the npu.
Love the machines they picked for the benchmarks in this video, as they were all contenders for a near future laptop purchase. Especial kudos for finding ways to sneak apple into the benchmarks where it made sense.
I know I'm the outlier and get heckled for this, but I think along with better naming.... fewer sku's!!! This would further simplify keeping them all straight (and naming, for that matter), allow shorter release windows, and actually make noticeable differences between the sku's stand out.
I fail to see how meteor lake coming out a year later than promised, being sometimes slower than last gen, and usually slower, more expensive and less efficient than AMD’s over a year old Phoenix improves one’s outlook on Intel so much as to suggest they’re back to their old school dominance. And NPU’s really, even if a 10 TOPS NPU was useful phoenix has one that is also exactly 10 TOPS, and the recently launched Hawkpoint has 16. Alder Lake looked like Intel was back, this is no different than Rocket Lake
Reading comprehension, homie. He didn’t say they were already back. His point is that they’re now visibly on a path to _getting_ back, instead of flailing around in post-14nm hell like they did for a few years. Tiled CPUs and a viable mobile implementation of ARC are an enormous (and welcome) shift from Iris and monolithic dies, so delays and 1st-gen jank are somewhat expected. That it works as well as it does, though, implies big things for what’s coming next… both in terms of Battlemage on the immediate horizon, and the new 3nm/20A foundries coming online in the more intermediate future. It’s something like a Vision Pro situation, if that helps you conceptualize it-this is a different animal than anything they’ve made in the past, with some very impressive new features. But people aren’t really excited about *this,* they’re excited about what’s very clearly coming next. Not now, but in 2-3 generations, this is going to be something truly impressive.
Also keep in mind the core ultra build is using 7467 Mhz Ram while the 7840u is using 6400mhz. That's a 16% difference in speed that could potentially influence gaming and productivity (more likely the productivity)
Had to pause the video twice before 20 seconds in to check if my sound was busted or they just messed up the audio mastering on this. Pretty sure it's the latter.
I watched this entire video twice. I still have no idea why anyone would want this. More powerful CPU and discreet GPU costs hundreds of dollars less, for what I think would be a more powerful laptop.
love the flashing red dot to help me see what I'm supposed to be looking at, that's always been a big problem with graphs that fly past at light speed.
While Intel has stated they have no plans for ARM, Windows 11 on ARM runs so well on Apple Silicon that the tiled processors seem like they could enable a transition to Windows running on an ARM core with x86-64 cores only being activated for legacy apps. Eventually all 'current' (in the future) apps would be on ARM and x86-64 apps would reach a point where the performance doesn't need to get better. Then it's all efficiency gains until they stop calling them cores and it's just an x86-64 accelerator. Official 'Windows' could just be a plugin for any OS at that point.
I have 0 consideration for buying a mac book. Am SOOO happy they are here on these charts. I never get to see Apple Vs PC when PCs launch. This is great pls keep doing. I may not buy them, but Apple is still important to compare to.
I like the new Dot-Indicator in the graphs that you have used in a couple of videos now, but I am still having some problems following the graphs in a fast pace environment like this one. I absolutely get, that these slides can't stay for too long. My problem more specifically is, that I cannot compare this fast what so ever, but I have an Idea: Maybe you could use some colors, for example some grey for Apple M3, red for AMD and Blue for Intel. However, I am not talking about changing the color of the whole graph, but instead more or less underlining every bar with a brand representing color maybe? I think this would 1st help readability (especially for slides with short viewtime) and 2nd keep the opportunity to use high contrast colors for e.g. color blind people in the primary bars, since the underline is just a small accent. Important with this is, that the color is not just on the left or something, it should help with 2 Things: 1st, make it less necessary to read the text on the left by using colorcoding 2nd, make it able to see the brand or maybe other important aspects anywhere on the screen and not just the left. Meaning I can view the points/fps/frames/time what ever on the right, while also seeing the brand at the same time. As a nice bonus, it would also help in graphs with a lot of hardware, to see wich is more on top, middle or bottom, since seeing colors is typically WAY faster than reading.
You have an M3, it has an NPU. You can run linux on any recent-ish high end Android smartphone and you've got access to a capable NPU there too. I've used my One Plus 7 Pro as a network attached 7 TOPS NPU machine to do low power batch image processing tasks. A USB Coral TPU is also an option.
i got my zenbook duo 2024 120hz oled, ultra 7 155H & 16gb ram few days ago.. in the asus system setting app i put 8gb allocation to the arc GPU & the fan speed option to performance mode with the AC power and was able to play all games on high setting with few tweaks in graphics setting of the games which i couldn't believe a laptop without RTX can even do lol also increased the VRAM by adding more SSD space for paging file size for that extra push on a 16gb system
It not hard to see why not to invest. If you can afford to loose then go for it. Made short term investments in AMD befor AM5 and Nvidia before 40 series and the craze with Ai with some nice returns. I see what intel is doing and one of those where investment in any of these companies will benefit in the long run (12 months or more)
As a user of Apple devices, I will never get tired of people calling them out for the ridiculous RAM/SSD upgrade prices. Thanks, Linus. Never stop. Hopefully they listen at some point (though I don't have much hope).
Clarification: While the Intel Core Ultra 7 155H can be configured up to a 65W TDP, it was running in the mid-30s during our testing on this device both in productivity and in games, for example reaching an average of 36W in performance mode during our Cyberpunk benchmark. We apologize for not including this information in the video.
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I love you Mr Linustech
@@UA-camtailsame
Itel
Itel
Itel
While the old naming was confusing, at least it was for new pc enthusiasts. Now it's confusing for everyone 😂
Equal opportunity offender
Old naming scheme worked quite well for the desktop CPU's. There's a reason why AMD basically copied that naming scheme. But intel did such a bad job at naming their laptop cpu's.
@@Liinuli. In this case i feel like intel copied AMD Or at the least felt like they needed to change since AMD did
AMD changed their mobile naming to be horribly confusing
And now intel did the same
Honestly should have just kept the old scheme on both platforms
I legit don't even care to learn what this new, sh*ttier naming scheme means -_-
I mean it wasn't that confusing, everyone including my mum knew that bigger number meant better and that there was i3 i5 i7.
The only clarification I had to do was pointing out that no your i7 5820 isn't faster than a new i5 12600, because generations exists
PLEASE put some icons in the graphs. Just an intel/AMD/Apple logo will go a long way.
I constantly have to look back and forth to see which number is which laptop. If a logo is in my peripheral vision while looking at the bars, that would help a huge amount.
You weak
@@quanghuyvu2649 💔 how could you... I thought we had something
Pay more attention to the video
Damn so much hate
@@oo--7714 it's a fking suggestion and honestly its a good idea
No word on batterylife? That was intels biggest problem in the mobile sector as far as I am concerned..
Agreed, though there might be some NDA where Asus or Intel don't allow reviewers to show battery life.
You had the consumption 28W for H, 15W for U
You can know for sure that battery will be worse, that Intel chip can consume by default double (65W) of the AMD (28W) and in turbo (117W) almost 5 times the AMD chip typical consumption (28W) and well the Apple chip is more efficient than the AMD one but consumes similar (average is like 25-28W and maximum usually 30W for general purpose and 47.5W for CPU workload).
So yeah battery life will not be great. If the laptop allows it, the maximum for that AMD (58W) will be still half the turbo of that Intel CPU (117W) and well at that amount of consumption the Apple one will beat in efficiency both of them (48W).
Not fair comparison or at least incomplete since they are missing a key point, not a hater, but those are the facts, I have seen LTT for a decade and this is bad.
Also ignoring the fact that Ryzen 8000 for laptop is launching now and will beat even more Intel and get closer to Apple.
@@LordNementon Lol no, that's base tdp, but the 155H can boost up to 65w, and even turbo to 115w max over the pl
@@lefthornet using a 7840u was a wrong comparison honestly, I would have used at least a 7845hs, which has a 15% multi core performance increase over the U, and is more on line with the 155H avg consumption
Remember when Intel says about "glued together" Epyc CPUs?
Pure cynism
First gluing that I remember was an Intel Pentium D, so it was their idea
I will never forget
See the pinned comment. It was 36W. meteor lake is much more efficient than AMD.
@@MMRSSM 🤣😂
I have integrated graphics edit:I now have a Quadro M2000
No
Yes
They are up slightly earlier on floatplane
It really just shows us how long videos being uploaded to UA-cam is delayed by.
Or they choose when they want to upload and release said video
I'm super proud of what we've been able to do with Meteor Lake. Just like with Alchemist, this is a 1st-gen attempt at something really new from the old ways at Intel. I would expect some of your gaming stutter and encoding to go away with the full TDP. MTL is meant to be performant in areas that last gen wasn't, such as the iGPU and NPU, while maintaining competition with Ryzen 8000 and M3 where last gen did well. It looked like you laptop was pulling some punches, as as you mentioned, it was capped around 36W while the 1370P can draw 64W quite comfortably. I would expect to match the 1370P at 55W. I am more than happy to take questions about anything.
For the NPU vs GPU question, that's entirely the expected and intended behavior. Think of the NPU like an E-core for the GPU when doing I/O.
The tiles are my point of pride though. I'm not an architect in any form. I don't make cores or GPUs or anything like that. I worked on the physical interconnects between the tiles, and let me tell you guys, there's interesting stuff in there I wish I could talk about more. Hopefully I'll get to put a paper out on this around the launch window of Lunar Lake. When you mentioned modularity, I would like to point out that the sizes of tiles are not set in stone.
Just to reiterate for that bit at 2:13. CONSISTENT FRAMES > HIGHER FRAMES
I will always take 30fps over 60 that's constantly dipping to 5 or 10 every couple of seconds
100% agree.
It would have been more fair to run the intel laptop on vulkan as well, considering apple runs on that. In vulkan It would have destroyed the competition even in 1% lows.
Were the 1% really that low?
Same, unless you happen to have a VRR display. Then I'll take the unlocked 40+ FPS performance instead.
Depends on the range. 60 dropping to 5-10 every few seconds is unplayably stuttery, 120 that drops to 80 ever few seconds is a lot less noticeable.
Small rant here but I feel like part of the reason why that older video did so good was because it was easily searchable. I’m not a fan of how LTT has been labeling their videos in the last few years since it’s hard to tell what the video actually is. This one’s better but if your earlier video was titled “Luke’s new 2024 gaming PC” It would have 100% gotten a click from me but I totally skipped over it. Also I’m slightly scared I’m already shadowbanned for these mild takes so if someone could give a thumbs up or comment here that would be awesome.
Not shadowed 🤷♂️ And I agree, the naming of their videos has been a bit of a miss recently, I’ve gone to look for specific things a few times and can never find them easily anymore.
Can't wait for plus ultra cores!
Itel
just wait until core ultra super-duper pro max plus
my hero academia!!!
Go beyond! (Beyond naming conventions making sense.)
is that a MyHero reference? Shame on you
Intel: "something something glued-together CPUs". My my, how the turns have tabled.
This actually proves their point. The interconnects are much better designed here and not "glued together". They were never bashing multiple chips on a die, they were criticizing the amateurish design of "infinity fabric" which is a cool way to refer to slapping them together in a very low-performance design. There's a reason Intel kept up in performance with 2x the process node size of AMD and it's because AMD's architecture is garbage.
Audio sound a little odd on this one. A little more bass heavy and maxed out
my cage was vibrating from the bass off my phone i had to turn it down im in that slumped lazy phone propped on my sternum mode
Yeah, I have a dual 18" Sub and it's uncomfortable.
i thought my sub was busted or something LOL
@@cbennett1
I've got an 18" as well, but luckily it was turned off, highs are muffled at the 3:45 mark as well. Horrible audio.@@cbennett1
They want Linus to sound more masculine.
A quick note - single precision FLOPs/Watt is the current battle in the ML space. The price of SoA models training is now dominated by the electricity draw, just as their cost in inference, so any saves there, even at a price of lower performance is what matters. So if you want to benchmark NPUs, showing power draw and inference speed on a set of standard models is what will be most interesting to people who need them or want to integrate into their software.
I'd advocate for doing a bit of coloring for the Y-axis on the charts. We're seeking out the Intel Core Ultra 7 155H (Std. and Perf. Mode) by reading 5 lines of white text some. The video is all about that though so why can't the processor's name be in yellow or something to quickly say "hey it's this one/it's these two look here" faster so we can shift our attention to the bars. Even the bars could have distinct coloring but that might be too loud looking idk.
I think having different color bars is a great idea. Makes it super readable. Especially if they say "Core Ultra is Blue, apple is red, last gen Intel is green" or something like that.
@@FinneasJedidiah It would be even better if they kept re-using the same colours for different companies, though. Intel is blue, Nvidia is green, AMD is red and Apple is... black, like their logo?
A colouring scheme would be nice, but pausing the video to view charts in more detail is also possible. A colouring scheme would be nice even with the paused video, but the consequences aren't as bad as the OP makes it seem.
Adding color is just adding more to the chart to fix a problem they are creating instead of just fixing the actual problem directly. Although different colors wouldn't hurt. The problem is they sort the chart based on performance, which means you do not know what each bar represents at a glance because number 1 in one chart is different then number 1 in another chart. We can distinguish a big bar from a small bar at a glance, so ordering the results by something that is already easily distinguishable is pointless. Just keep each product (cpu in this case) in the same spot so when we see that bar 3 is biggest (or smallest) we already know what product that is without having to look every time because it is the same on every chart.
There are blinking red dots next to the metrics he is discussing.
It's nice to see LTT taking Apple seriously now that they deserve it. Obviously some of the older thinner Intel MacBooks really didn't have a place in a video like this and I don't blame them for not including them but it's nice to see now that Apple is competitive in this field, that they're not just being completely ignored.
you are right, intel should not be compared to older intel chips in apple. the new stuff is way better.
No power draw / power efficiency comparisons? I think that's pretty important for laptop CPUs
I suspect that was on purpose. In terms of heat, even the U series hits 57W TDP at full boost which is significantly higher than it's closest AMD and Apple competition. Given the performance, I think we can safely say it's much less power efficient.
That was honestly suprising, and does make this kind of a useless video. Everyone knows that the 12th-14th generation cpu's have had pretty bad efficency experiences especially on the laptop, that was literally the first thing I wanted to know when I saw that there was a new intel cpu on the laptop.
They're comparing completely seperate laptops, not just the CPU. It'd be pretty impossible to get anything useful out of it, in terms of apples-to-apples
Apple would dominate those charts
From my testing against an i7 1360P and 13700H, you can expect MTL to match performance with a 38W 1360P at 20-25W, and match the 45-50W 13700H at 35-42W. As for battery life, the ASUS Zenbook 14 I am testing the 155H in routinely pulls out 10+ hour days at work and I've gotten a full 8-hour fligh's worth of movie watching and blog post writing done on it already.
Funny how manufacturers have moved to the same "tile" architecture style than IBM Z & Power systems have been for past 30+ years...
Wait until they would need to ditch clocks altogether and went to asynchronous systems to gain any significant performance uplift. That would mean return to architecture that remember Soviet union in it's hay days.
STILL WAITING FOR BABY LINUS
I want my baby back baby back baby back
I want my baby back baby back baby back
I want my baby back baby back baby back
Baaaaaabyyyyyyy,
Baby Faced Tipssss
2nd
Itel is cool
This is the last video of handsome linus. No the beard was good, the earrings needed to go xD
@@BookerZeroWitt barbeque sauce
I really appreciate the focus red dot thing for the graphs, one of the better solutions I have seen for highlighting relevant information in graphs. Good job!
Personally I prefer far more the GN approach of the "shades" walking around graphs showing exactly whats being talked about at that moment. LTT graphs are kinda "one dimensional", and those random focus dots - can kinda "disappear" from my vision when I focus like 80% of my eyes on trying to read which model is which position.
no way ludwig's bidet is in LTT store now
It’s been there for weeks xddd.
Everybody poops 💩
Save on your shi**ing. By which I mean shipping.
ludwig bidet tips
been there for months now actually xD I remember when it launched on WAN show
the audio quality of linus voice sounded weird on this video, Just a heads up! love the channel!
For not having an NPU to compare against, Apple has had a "16-core Neural Engine" in their M-series products since it was originally released in 2020.
I was going to point out the same thing. the only thing that may prevent direct comparisons is if the software for testing isnt on both platforms. eitherway slight oversight by LTT on this.
Even the 7840u has its own NPU
Not just the M3, AMD’s mobile parts have had NPU’s for over a year now and they just ignored it. Their second gen ones just came out that promise to be 60% faster than Intel’s
@@creativeanvil2783 ML accelerators tend to have different support for different precision levels (fp32, bf16, int8, etc.), and memory bandwidth vs compute can both be bottlenecks depending on workload, so it's actually very hard to compare them in general as opposed to on a specific benchmark. That said, they could have run or cited MLPerf.
@BIGbearrrrrfor training yes, but you can convert PyTorch and TensorFlow models to CoreML, which allows you to do inference on the neural engine on Apple devices. Including iPhones and iPads. I’m not an expert on the bottlenecks with the NE, but it’s my understanding that it’s significantly faster than the GPU with quite a few models
Hey LTT - you can tell Linus' LAV mic is being muffled by being under his hoodie.
Tiles - Glue but intel branded!
Did they really compare a high performance 65W max TDP CPU against an efficiency oriented CPU 30W max TDP (according to AMD website)? Also no efficiency mentioned in a laptop CPU review/"explained" video?
its worse, PERF Mode actually uses as much watt as possible, so it's very much possible that its using more than 65W.
Yeah this is super sketch to me what the hell
yeah my takeaway was i want the amd, lmao
exactly the intel chip can even boost to 115w
I bought the 7840HS equipped lenovo ideapad pro 5 with 32gb lpddr5 6400, with 75whr battery and 14' 1800p ips screen I can get upto 8 hours of light to medium work and can game at 1200p or 1050p and if I need any more gaming power 7840hs also supports USB4 40GBPS so yeah I recommend 7000hs @@redgopnik2227
Got a suggestion for making the graphs easier to absorb when using multiple applications to test performance. Example 3:32 - 3:34
It would be great if y'all could maintain the same order of the devices from top to bottom across the graphs. It is a little unintuitive to have to constantly re-read the order of devices on the y-section of the graph. :D
12:07 "Everyday maching learning tasks" - never thought I'd hear such a thing in my life.
As a regular viewer I am fine with the "investment disclosure" thing, but a new viewer would not be able to understand at all what it means. Maybe write some details on screen, otherwise the disclosure is basically useless (the ones who already know, already know, and the ones who don't know, won't know).
Also, sometimes it would be nice to have the laptops in the same spots in the various plots instead of always reordering them, it would make them much more readable during the video.
what does it mean? simply dont buy the stock because i find the product good?
@@ilovelol2642You can't buy the stock as it's not publicly traded. Because of this Linus isn't legally obligated to disclose it, but chooses to do so based upon the potential conflict of interest involved with reviewing, analysing and concluding on other laptops as well as Framework models. It's not to indicate whether the product is good or bad, Framework has it's own merits and drawbacks compared to competitors, but it's more to make it clear that he has a vested interest financially speaking. A laptop is a personal purchase which should involve spending time finding the right option for you, rather than basing it off of investments made by people in the industry.
If by "it" you mean the disclosure, it just means Linus is personally an investor in Framework. He seems to be remaining unbiased but even still, regarding that particular model of laptop, verify from another source (and I think he would say the same thing.)@@ilovelol2642
@@ilovelol2642 I think OP's talking about the Framework investment disclosure. Linus owns a stake in Framework, and LTT videos are supposed to disclose that when Framework laptops are involved. This video just said (and flashed on the screen) "INVESTMENT DISCLOSURE" with no details, so people that don't already know of Linus's relationship with Framework get exactly zero context.
There isn't a strict legal requirement to disclose such a conflict of interest in this kind of video (i.e. not doing so isn't going to get anybody in legal trouble with securities regulators or yt, though it would probably backfire bigly credibility-wise), but if there was, just flashing the word "disclosure" with no details or link to them, is insufficient
The whole idea of liking a product meaning the company is 'a good investment' is banal dumbed down logic missing a mention of a lot of intermediary steps, it is contradictory to the supposed point of this video which is to educate
Apple isn't reducing specs to cut costs, its to build in obsolescence. The elements that make their devices sub-par are designed to make the consumer have to replace the device sooner. You pair an increased need for paging with soldered NAND and RAM, and you get a device that will outright fail sooner. So when they upcharge for either of those you're paying for longevity, or more accurately space between times you have reason to give them more of your money.
is that why apple devices last the longest and why apple are shown to be the most reliable major hardware manufacturer (third party calculated too)? Microsoft comes out last by the way. I have had 3 surface laptops and 2 dells. Yeah. never again.
@@ZeerakImran I can only hope you're joking. Yea a $500 windows based laptop is a piece of shit that isn't gonna last a year let alone a decade, but at Apple's price points a comparable windows laptop tend to hold up equally when it comes to hardware. Software is where Apple fails miserably as they'll cut you off from OS updates before the end of the decade while Microsoft basically places an ankle high wall between you and the next version of windows no matter how old your CPU is.
@@ZeerakImranPerhaps tell that to someone that doesn't fix them for a living, and sees all common and ridiculous ways they actually happen to fail. It's a bigger and more costly headache to get them fixed, or to recover data. Made even worse by the Apple store's universal default of pricing (or denying) the repair at a point designed to push you toward a new device. Apple's practices is the biggest reason why right to repair had to be legislated for such devices.
The only things in Apple's laptop designs that are genuinely superior is how they reduce mechanical failures. Like the hinge mounting, and the magsafe connector. Memory, storage, and the much of the electronics are made by the same companies PC OEMs use, and have similar rates of failure. Now Apple silicon does rely on memory being physically close to the SOC, which legitimizes it's soldering, but they started that on their Intel based systems after 2014. There is zero excuse for then proprietary and now soldered storage.
Why so kittle mention about the power modes. The 155H in perf. Vs. Std. Modes were basically different experiences.
It's a good time to be alive! It's so neat to see CPU hardware changing so much, and I can't wait for what happens over the next several years.
I'm getting an unusual amount of low end audio rumble in this video, like lack of pop filter but more than that. I have a very large/sensitive sub, but this does not happen in other LTT videos.
... Do you have crossovers? Have you tuned those subs properly to the space? Do you have a mixer and eq available? If not do you know how to use EQ in windows? Sounds like user error mate my subs have no overbearing low end, it sounds more natural than normal. MORE natural.
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@@donatedfleaUseless advice from someone pretending to understand audio. Classic.
The audio in this video is off, it’s even noticeable one a phone speaker
The low rumble has always been an issue and I kept bugging Sam about this, but apparently he wasn't able to get through to whoever mixes audio for LMG. I guess they just have a preset chain of plugins that was set up once many years ago and then never touched. I'm pretty sure they don't have an employee for this, so nobody feels like it's their job to take care of it and/or probably most lack a proper playback system and knowledge to fix it.
@peniku8 like the server maintainence then haha
@@donatedflea a crossover isn't going to to anything for frequencies that are already there.
I got the Asus ZenBook 14 OLED with the Ultra 9 185H (45W TDP) this week and it is amazing. It can power down to 3W on the CPU in HWINFO. Absolutely amazing battery life. Performance is great in Windows 11. Gaming absolutely possible. And the 2880x1800px OLED touchscreen is a blast. Super happy with it.
Wow nice, price? How much battery life with moderate use?
i got the ultra 7 155h and its great , unfortunately ultra 9 wasn't available where I live
cool video, for me missing is the power draw for the tasks for each chips, like you said naming schemes are confusing and for me comparing intel H series with an U series is from a price point a good comparison but if one is drawing 28W and the other 15W then it is a little off especially as it is not a laptop review but a chip review. as a viewer I don't know how much the M3 or the 1370P draws and it would have been nice to know, I didn't say the chips were the wrong chips, but for me this context was missing completely and for me the video is not satisfying like this. but maybe it is just me
Agreed the h / u compassion made and look worse than they are
From another comment of mine: You can expect a 25W 155H to match up with the 1360P at 38W, and a 155H at 35-42W to match up with a 45W+ 13700H. Power draw for this chip is a 28W TDP and 64W max boost power, with very short spikes above that allowed as is the case with most laptop CPUs.
I love the idea of Intel Arc making waves. We NEED real competition
Making waves as in struggling not to drown. So yeah an apt metaphor.
So glad ARC graphics has gotten usable now. I bought an A380 (intended for a HTPC & encoding) and A750 LE early on to play with. The A750 was pretty buggy/slow for most games near release and I switched back to my RX6800 (and shortly after a 7900XTX). I kept the A750 as sort of a collectors thing or assuming performance improved, could use it for a friend/family machine.
But, when the 4080 Super was close to being launched I popped the A750 back in while trying to sell the 7900XTX and was pleasantly surprised that I could play most games at mid-low presets and still maintain a playable ~60 FPS @ 1440p, and even faster with XeSS. Idle & desktop power consumption also got better since launch too.
Will be nice when their graphics division really gets dialed in. AAA games on a thin/light(ish) laptop playing 60 FPS+ at 1080+ and medium settings would be awesome. And hopefully wreck AMD/Nvidia's mid-low end pricing schemes, forcing their whole line to shift down to reality.
Yea great to hear, probably swapping my GTX 1660S to A770 this year once I do a distro upgrade. Excited to see performance increases here.
it has stutter problem, very unplayable, only in my games though
Not saying it's bad at gaming, at it's price point it's great, but Intel's A380 is more than anything an absolute godsend to streamers. It made having a dedicated encoding GPU viable again depending on what streaming app you're using. Game on your main GPU and encode on the A380 for a smaller performance loss. Also the damm thing runs on slot power so you won't need a PSU with an extra set of "GPU" power connectors to install it in an existing system.
@@Glornak I wish I bought a later model, mine still comes with the power connector, very annoying.
@@jierenzheng7670 Yeah, same. Would have made my NVR setup a lot easier.
0:52 - Aged like milk. Intel lose its biggest share price drop in 50 years lol
I mean, he did say it was not financial advise lol
idk why but the audio in this sounds like it's playing behind a blanket
yeah it does sound different, thought it was just me 😅
...and i thought that i accideentaly overboosted my sub
I was looking for this comment, yeah it seems off.
mic under hoodie im guessing. its muffled asf
bullshit. Every speaker in my home (dozens) sound great at any level.
Its YOU or your browser or apple, but its NOT the source audio.
It was this searching that got me to watch this channel in the first place and I subscribed. Still watching even if I am not smart enough to know what you talk about but it is worth watching.
Very impressive to see MacBooks have this trajectory in performance. Nice to see the M series MacBooks get their representation as a M1 MacBooks User. Still one of the fastest laptops I use today and it’s been 2 years.
You really shouldn't expect things to be much faster in just a couple of years... If you look past the marketing, each new generation of product just isn't that different than the last
It has really impressive price for poorly 8gb of ram
@antonioytm It's Unified Memory /s
People are Unified that 8gb of RAM is dogshit @@Demopans5990
@@Demopans5990Even as a sarcastic comment it's unfunny cause it makes it even worse 😅
Intel is gonna be STONKS in a few short years!! Great to see after the debacle that was 14NM+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
is it just me or is the microphone sounding really off in this video, tonal balance seems so unnatural
yup, sounds boomy, way too bassy
Disagree and think you all have incredibly shitty speakers or pods and zero knowhow how to tweak audio. It sounds perfectly audible and all frequencies covered on every system and speaker in my house. Im an audio engineer. Lol.
It's an allegory for the balance of the data presentation
@@donatedflea If you seriously can't hear the awful quality of this video, especially compared to the last one they put out, you should re-think your career choice. Or maybe get a better set of speakers?
@@donatedflea It's definitely bass boosted and sounds uncanny
I really need to say that editing on this video is absolutely amazing!
thanks
5:24 don't make assumptions that CQ is absolute - many things impact it - even number of threads, since x264 poorly multithreads, so most of the performance comparisons on it are pointless tbh.
Use parallel encoder (like AV1AN), and then you can measure quality difference (imo PSNR is alright, but use ssimulacra2 and vmaf if you want to satisfy all people with perceptual metrics).
I know the usecase sounds quite specific then, but you would want to quantify performance properly, just like games being run 1080p on top shelf processors.
0:30 I assume that the U chips are the low power mobile CPU's, and that part of the denomination has not changed. Can we stop and admire for a moment that Intel managed to go back to "dualcore" again on mobile chips? Yes, I know I am counting only performance cores, but those are the ones that matters when the system is getting hammered down. But I'd like to argue that the whole point of quadcore on laptops was not only for background tasks, but also because that power is used when you hammer down your computer, and is not uncommont to happen, even if by virtue of a poorly written ap, or a decent amount of tabs in the background.
What is up with the sound mixing in this one? The voice is jumping all over the place in terms of clarity.
I have no idea why they didn't go with a simple 'core' prefix for U series and 'ultra' for H series. Core for thin and light, Ultra for workstations or heavier gaming laptops. Not this confusing mess!
7840U U=low power chip the intel chip can turbo to 115w lol
i don`t unterstand this Test.
If you've actually look at other reviews they are in the same power class.
no they are not intel can say otherwise this thing still can turbo with a 115w tdp @@__aceofspades Processor Base Power 28 W
Maximum Turbo Power 115 W
Minimum Assured Power20 W
Maximum Assured Power65 W
There's not a single laptop in which the 155H boosts past 65W, and it only boosts to 65W for less than 1 minute, when perf. mode is enabled.
Amdf4gs cant accept reality, intel beat even their integrated graphics haha. Both chips take the same watts, dont need to lie
The NPU is basically the new Purevideo, Clear Video, and UVD. A new hardware accelerated feature to lighten the load of a particular process by paralleling the operation into it's own segment of the CPU. It's happening again, cramming more features into the CPU and improving it along with literally everything else at the same time while More's law is not as effective as it once use to be. If both AMD and Intel go into this, who will make CPUs without NPUs? Maybe they can offer separate line ups without NPUs to get even more out of regular CPUs, cause that's what I want.
Hey just a note about the graphs, In this video you made a point of putting the best on top sometimes but in others it was alphabetical or something. Can you just pick an order and stick with it? It's difficult to follow the information on a particular computer when it keeps moving around the bar graphs.
It was highest 1% lows when they included it, not alphabetical
Looks like they glued them together pretty well.
Wow… Whoever balanced Linus’s mic audio failed. That mic is so bass heavy that it sounds like he is eating that microphone
There's something very wrong with the audio for sure. I had this video in the background and it made me check if my cables weren't plugged in all the way.
The industry standard for benchmarking machine learning systems is the MLPerf / MLCommons benchmark. They provide benchmarks for training and inference on different scales of systems.
Was here for the efficiency/power and battery tests, guess I'll just head out.
Meteor Lake often loses to Raptor Lake at the same power draw.
@@lharsayhe’s talking about battery life at idle tasks where performance doesn’t matter.
@@jivewig It's even losing in a youtube playback battery life test.
The only guy on the world that makes ads fun and enjoyable
Audio quality is jacked in this. Does anyone even watch the final cut before sending?
Could be UA-cam
I thought it was my head phones
im not sure what it is that is different but the recent videos have felt to me higher in quality (im sure has something to do with longer production times) i was wondering tho if anyone else has noticed this. cause to me its cool to see a channel as big as ltt still changing up there editing style to see what works best and to bring up the quality!
Why does the audio sound so bad?
because you have no idea how to tweak audio to your system and space and you expect everything on a silver platter like youtubers to do your bidding.
@@donatedfleaThe video audio quality is very bad compared to their other videos, your headphones might just not be good enough to hear a difference. Bad source audio quality can’t magically be fixed by “tweaking”.
OMG that explanation of the Intel nomenclature! The main reason I have purchased only AMD chips over the past 10 years is that I don't want to risk buying the "wrong" Intel SKU.
Sorry, but I feel like I have not learned anything, maybe more about Apple than anything actual useful for day to day about the new Intel CPUs. Also you refered only to the 155h and did not takl about the 135h much or the messed up U-line-up where all CPUs seem the same. And even more, you did not even mention efficiency outside of the NPU. This is not an explanation, just an emtpy overview with some benchmarks. If you put benchmarks in it, do it right or leave them be for the final review.
This does not feel like the renewed and better LTT.... I hope the acutal review if it comes to that is more satisfying.
"Framework investment disclosure" could be expanded on, you could mention with the on-screen text something like "Linus owns some Framework". Now it kinda looks like LTT/LMG has invested in them.
So are we really just going to ignore power draw in laptop benchmarks, or what? All other reviews I've seen Intel gets destroyed by AMD in performance per watt, and Apple is even farther ahead.
I know right? I really wanted to see how putting the decoding and super-low-power core so close to each other would impact the classic youtube battery test.
Not only that they are comparing this Intel sku which is a higher power h chip vs low power amd/apple chips
@@MattSitton the difference between u and hs isnt that noticable as it is only base clock and wattagae that is different. The u is more dominant in the thin and light segment. But everything depends on the specific laptops power delivery.
@@rasmuspedersen2001If you research the info, that Intel chip can suck doble the power than AMD and Apple chips, not fair comparison.
but apple is cringe , id never use apple even if they won the monopoly
Honestly that sku segment needed to be 4x longer to actually explain wtf we're looking at.
Man Ill take that as advice thanks lil bro
i like that this man is still showing benchmarks as if anyone takes them seriously from him
Audio recording of Linus' voice in this ep was out to lunch, rip. I say this having done sound recording professionally.
i loveee the red bubble indicating which statistic is important!!
dont know when this was introduced but wow is it amazing!!!!
Lol How nice of Intel to make their naming schema infinitely more complicated in order to screw the customer base.
All they had to do was replace i with core.
Core 7600k
Core 12900k
Etc
Etc.
They didnt need to do all this and they know it.
1:00 Dragonballs just chilling on the kitchen counter. No wonder Linus says monetize my death. He's just going to come back.
Constructive criticism: On the graphs, put the CPU (the things we are talking about) front and centre, and the machine it was tested on below in brackets. It's not reasonable to expect everyone to know which laptop has which cpu at first glance, and as this is not a video ABOUT any of those laptops, it should especially be about the cpu first and foremost.
exactly. all of those laptops are very different from one another and target different audiences. They all have different ram speeds, disk speeds, cooling systems and so on. All of that though is understandable if they say that these are the current options for buyers. But then when they bring the prices up of the laptops, that all goes out the window again. We're paying for different things. One of the laptops is designed to last for a decade with great build quality, hardware and amazing free software, another which is modular and designed to last longer (let's say currently in beta and first gen), and the others are your standard glue together whatever specs and sell it for the price that the users would buy those specs for. Also, I'm assuming they are using the m3 macbook pro with a base m3 processor and comparing it to the high end processors of intel. Their justification being price (which I have already thrown out of the window (are they going to factor the price of my data being taken by MS in their calculations too?)). Sure. If its price, then why not compare it to a m1 pro from years ago. You can buy one that is second hand for £1200 in the UK (20% vat was charged in this price originally too) and they won't be able to tell me whether its brand new or not. You can get a macbook air m2 refurbished (apple refurbished is still better than other manufacturer's brand new for reliability and aging) for £900. That's £400 cheaper than the ones in the video and then they could have brought up how that laptop doesn't have a fan and lasts forever. Literally the whole point of these processors. Otherwise we could just be using 12th gen i9s. I have to be honest. LinusTechTips has always been pro windows boo everything else. But this video kind of seems like the bias has to do with the framwork laptop and not painting it for what it is. I don't think it's malicious though. I don't think its intentional. Just wishful and naturally biased due to the emotional connection. Also if they really want to compare the laptops as opposed to the processors, see what happens when you unplug the charger. What happens to the benchmarks then? The least they could do is mention this stuff so that the audience is aware. Educate rather than influence.
5 months later. 'this is not financial advice ' raise suspicions .
Yeah.. plus the 30-odd watts drawn vs the the 64w possible... it feels like a pretty flipping hardcore CPU that's getting shafted review-wise for whatever reason(s)..
Great video but you missed an opportunity to color chart bars to red blue darker blue and black. It would have been easier to follow 😊
Why are you comparing a 45w CPU to lower power CPUs?
You also mean one that can also turbo to 115w if allowed. Power draw information really should have been included and not just a chart showing how long playback of a video would last on battery while all other tests run plugged in, so much for the superior Labs results.
The Intel one can get 117W vs 58W max on AMD and 48W on Apple, not fair comparison.
@@lefthornetthe Test should be Core Ultra 155H vs AMD Ryzen 8840HS
@@lefthornetthis show how power hog Intel cpu is. I’m not buy Intel laptop again and I don’t like Apple MacBook either
Intel's naming scheme has become quite complex and confusing. Exciting to see some meaningful advancements with the meteor Lake, especially with the npu.
did linus just say "closlier" at 2:13? LMAO
Yes, it’s an ongoing meme.
I believe I never heard him say it properly)
Love the machines they picked for the benchmarks in this video, as they were all contenders for a near future laptop purchase. Especial kudos for finding ways to sneak apple into the benchmarks where it made sense.
Sounds like an Apple naming scheme
I know I'm the outlier and get heckled for this, but I think along with better naming.... fewer sku's!!! This would further simplify keeping them all straight (and naming, for that matter), allow shorter release windows, and actually make noticeable differences between the sku's stand out.
I fail to see how meteor lake coming out a year later than promised, being sometimes slower than last gen, and usually slower, more expensive and less efficient than AMD’s over a year old Phoenix improves one’s outlook on Intel so much as to suggest they’re back to their old school dominance. And NPU’s really, even if a 10 TOPS NPU was useful phoenix has one that is also exactly 10 TOPS, and the recently launched Hawkpoint has 16. Alder Lake looked like Intel was back, this is no different than Rocket Lake
Reading comprehension, homie. He didn’t say they were already back. His point is that they’re now visibly on a path to _getting_ back, instead of flailing around in post-14nm hell like they did for a few years. Tiled CPUs and a viable mobile implementation of ARC are an enormous (and welcome) shift from Iris and monolithic dies, so delays and 1st-gen jank are somewhat expected. That it works as well as it does, though, implies big things for what’s coming next… both in terms of Battlemage on the immediate horizon, and the new 3nm/20A foundries coming online in the more intermediate future.
It’s something like a Vision Pro situation, if that helps you conceptualize it-this is a different animal than anything they’ve made in the past, with some very impressive new features. But people aren’t really excited about *this,* they’re excited about what’s very clearly coming next. Not now, but in 2-3 generations, this is going to be something truly impressive.
The generative fill features in Photoshop mentioned at 8:20 do not run locally yet.
Sounds like a new possible processor for the Valve Deckard if that ever comes into existence.
0:46 this aged like milk
Also keep in mind the core ultra build is using 7467 Mhz Ram while the 7840u is using 6400mhz. That's a 16% difference in speed that could potentially influence gaming and productivity (more likely the productivity)
Not sure about mobile, but desktop ryzen do not scale past 6400, and probably get regressions.
@@Lost-One-n9sit would influence iGPUs quite a lot. Desktop AMD APU take a lot of benefit from faster RAM.
@or1on89 but the igpu is still coupled to memory clock. And once you go to high it decouples it runs at 2:1 instead of 1:1.
Had to pause the video twice before 20 seconds in to check if my sound was busted or they just messed up the audio mastering on this. Pretty sure it's the latter.
Same
i just hope the sleep feature doesn't drain my battery to zero in less then 2 days......
Oh great... USB 3.2 Gen 2 by 2 equivalent of CPUs...
Amazing.
I watched this entire video twice.
I still have no idea why anyone would want this.
More powerful CPU and discreet GPU costs hundreds of dollars less, for what I think would be a more powerful laptop.
love the flashing red dot to help me see what I'm supposed to be looking at, that's always been a big problem with graphs that fly past at light speed.
While Intel has stated they have no plans for ARM, Windows 11 on ARM runs so well on Apple Silicon that the tiled processors seem like they could enable a transition to Windows running on an ARM core with x86-64 cores only being activated for legacy apps. Eventually all 'current' (in the future) apps would be on ARM and x86-64 apps would reach a point where the performance doesn't need to get better. Then it's all efficiency gains until they stop calling them cores and it's just an x86-64 accelerator. Official 'Windows' could just be a plugin for any OS at that point.
that seems important but I didn't fully get it....could you please say that in less technical terms? what does this mean for windows and intel?
"If we look closelyer "
Remember Intel was making fun of AMD for "gluing" the chip together 9:30 ? Great work Lisa Su, looks like Intel understood your engineering.
Your 8gbs ram mac crashes, my 32gb macbook pro m1 crashes. We are not the same
I have 0 consideration for buying a mac book. Am SOOO happy they are here on these charts. I never get to see Apple Vs PC when PCs launch. This is great pls keep doing. I may not buy them, but Apple is still important to compare to.
I like the new Dot-Indicator in the graphs that you have used in a couple of videos now, but I am still having some problems following the graphs in a fast pace environment like this one.
I absolutely get, that these slides can't stay for too long.
My problem more specifically is, that I cannot compare this fast what so ever, but I have an Idea:
Maybe you could use some colors, for example some grey for Apple M3, red for AMD and Blue for Intel. However, I am not talking about changing the color of the whole graph, but instead more or less underlining every bar with a brand representing color maybe?
I think this would 1st help readability (especially for slides with short viewtime) and 2nd keep the opportunity to use high contrast colors for e.g. color blind people in the primary bars, since the underline is just a small accent.
Important with this is, that the color is not just on the left or something, it should help with 2 Things:
1st, make it less necessary to read the text on the left by using colorcoding
2nd, make it able to see the brand or maybe other important aspects anywhere on the screen and not just the left. Meaning I can view the points/fps/frames/time what ever on the right, while also seeing the brand at the same time.
As a nice bonus, it would also help in graphs with a lot of hardware, to see wich is more on top, middle or bottom, since seeing colors is typically WAY faster than reading.
I like the red pulsing marker on the charts to help follow with what you're saying :)
You have an M3, it has an NPU.
You can run linux on any recent-ish high end Android smartphone and you've got access to a capable NPU there too.
I've used my One Plus 7 Pro as a network attached 7 TOPS NPU machine to do low power batch image processing tasks.
A USB Coral TPU is also an option.
i got my zenbook duo 2024 120hz oled, ultra 7 155H & 16gb ram few days ago.. in the asus system setting app i put 8gb allocation to the arc GPU & the fan speed option to performance mode with the AC power and was able to play all games on high setting with few tweaks in graphics setting of the games which i couldn't believe a laptop without RTX can even do lol also increased the VRAM by adding more SSD space for paging file size for that extra push on a 16gb system
It not hard to see why not to invest. If you can afford to loose then go for it. Made short term investments in AMD befor AM5 and Nvidia before 40 series and the craze with Ai with some nice returns. I see what intel is doing and one of those where investment in any of these companies will benefit in the long run (12 months or more)
out of curiosity how much did you inves? and when did you sell?
As a user of Apple devices, I will never get tired of people calling them out for the ridiculous RAM/SSD upgrade prices. Thanks, Linus. Never stop. Hopefully they listen at some point (though I don't have much hope).
I’m gonna do it Mr. Financial advisor