[TF2] Weapons Valve Actively Hates
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2023
- Sometimes you DO have favorite children. The Righteous Bison deserves better. The Ullapool Caber does not.
"Ame Ame Beam" is by Roaming Tuna
Outro art is by CaughtinRed
Twitch: / tealopal
Trade URL (Donations will never be sold): steamcommunity.com/tradeoffer...
I own none of the copyrighted materials used in this video, and am not trying to claim or express any ownership over them. - Ігри
![[TF2] Head Collecting Weapons](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/7SU8Xz5-qAU/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Crit-Collecting Weapons](/img/n.gif)
Hey all! I hope you enjoy this return to form. This is the beginning of a New Era™️ for Teal Opal TF2.
Also, I wanna note that this video was conceptually inspired by a similar video by Macarjoe about Pokemon. That video is pretty stylistically different from this one (his is much funnier and better edited), but if you're interested, you can find that video here: ua-cam.com/video/JBS9vkUETU4/v-deo.htmlsi=xvERW72rHA22Z_Ie
Pfff You Wrong. Mostly 2010s New Valve Developers just are ignorant killed weapons in 2017 10 year anniversary after the orange box 10 days later.
couldn't the enforcer change be due to how it interacts with the dead ringer? the dead ringer gives instant cloak, thus giving the early enforcer no downside if paired
Honestly I love the babyface’s blaster but 2 more shots would be so nice
I once met a soldier named "Bison my Darling" on a hightower map. This man had a collector's righteous bison with a ton of kills on it. It was all he used, the entire game. THAT is dedication.
From what I understand, the Righteous Bison and the Pomson both are somehow connected to the either the flare gun or the flamethrower (I think their projectile was an edited version of the flare gun’s code). When the Jungle Inferno Update dropped, they changed the coding for Flamethrower damage and Afterburn. The projectile’s hit box is also way smaller than it should be, so all of these factors together have lead to a nerfed bison.
So you're telling me if Heavy won the Update instead of Pyro we would've had the good old Bison?... *sob*
Man this just sad
@@Fatsaver We would have had an even worse Bison because before the Jungle Inferno update, Valve forgot that the penetration mechanic was a feature and 'fixed it'. Back then, the projectile sucked and it also didn't penetrate any targets (which is the entire point of the weapon). They need to find a way to revert it back to the 2010 version 100%, or just make the projectile extremely fast.
@@Spanishdog17 The penetration bug was actually related to hitting enemies more times than it should had. Back then it should hit you for maximum of 5 times. Now it's 3, but even now as its revert it has that bug again.
@@Spanishdog17 Long story short it was just Valves extremely poor wording that made people confused as to what they actually meant.
While unmentioned in the script - the Enforcer's Penetration *did* get fixed back in Blue Moon - now properly working against nearly everything, minus Sapper Armor and an weird case of ignoring the damage vulnerability of the Pain Train.
Just the pain train or just dmg vulnerability weapons?
It still doesn't work about battalions backup
@@leeroyjenkins4456 You would think it would also be the case for the Warrior's Spirit, but the penalty seems to work as intended. As far as I'm aware, any other universal damage vulnerabilities work as intended, but specifically Bullet Vulnerabilities (which only have appeared on the Pain Train specifically) are bugged.
Pfff You Wrong. Mostly 2010s New Valve Developers just are ignorant killed weapons in 2017 10 year anniversary after the orange box 10 days later.
Maybe the code for the pain train is listed a a negative resistance value instead of a positive Vulnerablity value?
Valve nerfed the caber because competitive players lied about how effective it was.
That’s how 90% of fun/good weapons got nerfed. The great comp nerf of 2017. Wish Valve never listened to B4nny.
''It could one shot a Medic which is op!!'' *Dealt literally 149 damage which would leave the Medic to survive lol*
Not really lied as bombing the enemy Medic with this only forced the Demoman in other team to do it too.
Caber is still banned on comp too lmao the nerf didn't change anything.
@@kimmy620 They could literally just switch to Pyro to protect their Medic, but of course they’re never gonna do that because heaven forbid 6s players be “forced” to use a class that isn’t part of The Meta™️
The baby face's blaster is extremely underrated, even in its current form.
Losing boost so easily is very much countered by how incredibly easy it is to get it back. Many people don't know this, but you gain boost when dealing any damage with any weapon, so opening with a pistol so that you have a decent speed before going in full-force is very viable.
Also, one should definitely play differently with this weapon. It makes scout so fast, that he can choose to approach his target from any angle, as the unnecessary extra distance is nothing to a 175% speed scout. Getting a kill without taking any damage whatsoever is much easier with this weapon! Many people also run in a straight line and rely on jumping to make soldiers and demomen miss their projectiles, and doing that while not double-jumping gets them killed while using this weapon.
Here's the thing, though. Losing the boost is way too easy. Sometimes, you just can't avoid damage. Be it that stray shotgun pellet from across the map, or something else.
And good luck getting boost with damage over-time debuffs like afterburn and bleed. That shit chews through the meter like no tomorrow.
A single full damage pistol shot shouldn't be able to take away the entire meter.
@@Wahmageddon I agree that the boost loss is overtuned. But it's still not remotely enough to make the weapon unusable!
DOT damage should basically destroy boost, that's on purpose. All DOT damage in this game is easily avoidable by Scout. Bleed is only dealt by melees and throwables that a good Scout is next to impossible to hit with, and not staying out of Pyro's range (especially when using a weapon which makes it easier to do so!) should be punished.
A shotgun pellet from across the map will not remove the boost meter completely. As long as you have more than 25% boost you are faster than stock scout! But yeah, it should be dialed back just a bit, maybe 50 damage to remove the full boost meter, 25 damage is way too little, I agree.
I love using the weapon but it only work in player destruction or koth with MAX 6 players on both teams other wise you get targeted down very easily
@Wahmageddon honestly I don't think this is a bad thing. Inconsistent movement speed can make you way harder to hit since people aren't expecting you to suddenly change speed, and you can pretty reliably gain boost mid-fight since it's based on damage, and just one flying guillotine blade is usually enough to completely fill your boost.
@@FlishonyanKing Once again, there is no reason a single pistol bullet should take away your ENTIRE meter.
I'd say increase the damage needed to take away the entire meter to 75 or 100. Legit takes no effort to completely cripple a BFB Scout.
Because even if you're hit by say, a stray rocket from across the map, you'll end up getting to around the same speed as a normal scout. Possibly lower. Which people are used to.
Bison, eh? It was bugged with stairs so you could make instant kill traps that won't fade away. Saw delfy do it a.... 5-6 years back? Time sure flies
Holy cow, it does.
I just want the weapons to be useable.
Sun on a stick actually has a bit of use, generally a great pick while playing flank scout and the enemy swaps to Pyro! (6v6)
birb
Don't recommend the sun on a stick for comp. 😅
I would say you're greatly overstating the difficulty of building up the boost meter for the baby's face blaster. It's literally one meat-shot or two mid shots - with somewhat decent aim you can always bring it back to 100% in less than a second. Backscatter is actually worse in my opinion because it also has 4 shots in its magazine but it has an actually crippling accuracy debuff which makes it very weak and inconsistent and nullifies the whole point of powerful shots from behind - the bullet spread is so unreasonable you need to breath at an opponent's neck to deal any serious damage but at this point you could just use the stock.
Honestly baby faces is so underrated, with a combination of well landed shots, good awareness of when to double jump and when you can simply get away with running against an opponent, and a snowball-esc movement niche to help counteract the downside of losing boost on hit with good enough movement, it really is quite well balanced in its current state as a bona fide flank weapon
Erm, the Enforcer's damage piercing DOES work as intended, tho.
Here, from the wiki :
Resistance piercing works on :
1) Vaccinator's bullet resistance (both passive and uber)
2) Wrangler's shield (my favorite, you can shred through sentries from far outside their range and the Engi can't save them)
3) Battalion's Backup rage's damage resistance
4) Heavy's damage resistance on half-or-less HP when using Natasha/Brass Beast
5) Fists-of-Steel ranged damage resistance
6) Spy's cloak resistance (the 20% from Stock/C&D and resistances from the Dead Ringer (initial 75%, 65% follow-up))
Here's the resistances it doesn't work on :
1) Mannpower's power up (Resistance, Vampire and Plague powerup, granting respectively 50% damage reduction, 25% damage resistance and 50% damage resistance against Plague victims)
2) The revolver damage reduction Sentries have when sapped.
3) The crit immunity from the BB's rage.
So unless you play an obscure gamemode nobody plays, or shoot the Sentry you just sapped, the damage piercing works PERFECTLY AS INTENDED.
Fair! I had a limited sample pool to test the damage piercing with while recording footage and also hadn't played TF2 since 2021 prior to a few weeks before making this video but I definitely rescind my point.
@@TealOpal
People also do not realize the extra damage while disguised is more impactfull than they think.
People thinks it's only good to two-shot 125 hp classes, but in truth, it also means you can now three shot 175 hp classes without needing the full damage ramp-up. Excellent to counter Pyros outside of the flamethrower range.
And again, it keeps its regular damage (and even boosted damage) against Sentries. Meaning you can confortably sit outside the Sentry normal range and easily gun it down from afar, even if the Engi pull out a Wrangler to deter you.
shooting the sentry you just sapped is actually a downside that can be fairly significant considering that level 3 buildings take forever to get drained completely and thus shooting them while sapping can prevent the engineer from removing the sapper completely before the process is complete.
That being said though i think the enforcer isnt that bad a weapon either. the damage boost on the first shot is significant enough to affect how many shots you need to kill 125 and 175 hp classes, and the slower firing speed isnt that big a deal either considering the stock revolver punishes you for holding down m1 and spamming away with its spread recovery, so youre encouraged to take your time shooting anyway
@@drucy.yea, plus helps even more to pick off enemies with low hp, because usually in that situation it’s one shot you use to kill
The enforcer has ONE niche that makes it good, it hard counters vaccinator medics and wrangled sentries.
I think the baby face is a little overhated.
As many have mentioned, boost is pretty easy to build, which makes double jumping in combat still usable. People got used to the FaN, which makes it harder to double jump and fire, people can get used to firing after they jump to regain boost. And both of the ways to lose boost make sense, they're just a little overturned numbers wise.
Additional note: while many people mention losing full boost from 25 damage, nobody ever mentions returning to normal scout speed after dealing 25 damage.
That said, pyro and mini sentries can be super unfun to fight if you didn't know they were there.
The shortstop is just a little bit more situational than stock, and very viable. fight me
agreed
Was not expecting a Splash Damage logo, rip DB.
I knew there was something I had forgotten to watch yesterday. Better late than never.
I like the overdose, as a medic main my self, it just cool, and yeah, the speed is noticeable
Yea, but people don’t like using anything else besides the crossbow, it’s works rlly well with the vita-saw, where if you have 60% when you spawn, you can use the overdose to get to the front lines quicker
@@kirbs_3378 yeah, make sense, i like to get out the meta some times, but i would probably die when using the vita saw, and thx for the idea
@@kirbs_3378because the crossbow is a direct upgrade in a sense, whereas weapons like the overdoes are only side grades, like intended. There's no reason to use any primary other than the crossbow due to the amount of utility provided. Before the solemn vow came along, ubersaw was in the same spot. It's why they tried to avoid coding in direct upgrades to the stocks generally.
Now I’ve been living your review channel, but this is also nice to see.
Also 6:20 that ragdoll tho
I love how Valve instead of just lowering the speed of the max BFB boost, they proceeded to make it nigh impossible to hold boost for more than 12 seconds.
It was probably easier to lower the max speed to something like 145-150% and it would be a small boost that wasn’t too fast and is nice to have, but instead they removed all ability to have the reward for an extended period of time. I understand the old design of the weapon (trading vertical mobility for lateral mobility) and if they just lowered the max speed and increased boost loss on double jump, it would probably be a fine side grade.
Oh ya, it's Teal Opal time! Great vid and happy to have you back!
"More slippery than a hakan super" woah, SF4 reference, hell yeah you got my comment and like just based on that
What I find a shame is that, IMO, some of these weapons like the Baby Face, Bison, and Enforcer have salvageable designs, they just need to properly balance the risk/reward factor of the weapon, but a balance update for this game doesn't exactly seem to be at the top of Valve's priorities. And while it could be argued that'd push weapons like the BFB over the edge in the hands of a skilled player, the Bazaar Bargain and Kunai exist so IDK what to tell ya.
Also unrelated but I've wanted to mention for a while that I love the way you end your video segments on clever quips and puns to the current topic. I'm a huge fan of that kinda stuff and I'd definitely call it one of the main signatures of your work.
You can use the caber for ONE strategy: heavy killer.
If you charge with a shield and get the crit, your caber will one-shot a heavy. Or anything else for that matter.
Since when?
I remember why the Bison was nerfed. How could I forget?
Competitive players complained to Valve that the bison was too powerful when combined with a kritz krieg medic, and this was when Valve was making TF2 more competitive to compete against Overwatch so they actually listened to the comp players and tried to fix the issue.
Isn't why they nerfed the caber as well ? I heard it was a problem with medics and that competitive non-sense lol
This is exactly why casual players don't want comp players ruining the meta.
Do you have *ANY* proof about that info chief ?
Sir, I don't keep sources for any fact that I ever learn in the entirety of my life. It is unreasonable to ask, let alone, assume that anybody would, and everyone knows that nobody does, including you.
If I ever tell people something that is incorrect, I am not lying, I'm the one that was lied to and I'm simply repeating what I was told.
I learned it from TF2 UA-camrs who themselves had sources. No I don't have any video to link, this was years ago around when the bison got nerfed.
@@vivelespatat2670
@@Amvod The caber was never banned in comp. If anything the weapon was more of a problem in casual.
I think people exaggerate the BFB’s uselessness. The boost is so easy to gain that it being easier to lose isn’t that big a deal. Those many moments of being pretty fast makes it’s pretty fun even in this stage. I encourage anyone who thinks it’s really bad to use it a lot for a while. It’s not horrible.
Another weapon that valve also doesnt like is the short circuit because its been a balencing nightmare to the point they just completely changed it
A few words to improve thy algorithm: Mc overdose
I like the idea of instead of keeping your boost with the bfb, it instead fills up based on what damage you do, and the boost goes down if you don’t deal damage. This encourages you to get in there and deal nutty damage while punishing you if you are not fighting
Since nobody asked, I spend a lot of time thinking about how I would balance TF2 and have a few reworks for some of these weapons:
- Baby Face: Instead of affecting the Scout's speed, it affects jump height. On spawn, Scout has a significantly reduced jump height, but on full charge can jump significantly higher than normal. Jump height is lost exclusively with damage proportional to how much damage the scout takes. With 100 damage completely emptying the bar.
- Vita Saw: It becomes a utility weapon that splits the ubercharge meter in half. Instead of one full charge, it allows Medic to store two half charges that last half as long. The new negative is that your Uber builds slightly slower after 50% charge.
- Caber: Has a 25% damage bonus when intact and after exploding slowly recharges (like Jarate). Deploy speed debuff is removed and when deployed, the Demo is marked for death. The weapon also cannot crit or minicrit under any circumstances.
- Enforcer: Reduced clip size (4) instead of the firing speed penalty. Can be fired when cloaked (instantly breaks cloak) and deals minicrits when firing while cloaked.
I've got a few more changes for a few other bad weapons but i feel like these are weapon reworks that keep the identity of the weapons while being a lot healthier for game balance
Bison was hit with such nerfs because in comp people were using it along with crits of the Kritzkrieg to spam chokepoints. Yeah.
Honestly, I can see why they'd nerf it then, but they could've at least made its damage better if it wasn't gonna hit a player multiple times. At least then it'd be "oh it's just a sorta bad shotgun sidegrade"
@@llmkursk8254 There are dozens of ideas how to balance each weapon, but Valve for some reason only does it not only for major updates, but sometimes never for some weapons. Weapons can be balanced and viable in 6v6, 9v9, Casual, and MvM, and it's hard to understand what the hell Valve is waiting for. They really should work with balances changes like in Dota. On average 2 major balance changes per year, around 6 months between each. Don't wait years. Or decades...
@@kimmy620 Even a once a year balance patch would've been nice. Didn't have to be more than 5 weapons even.
But god damn has the game gone stale in terms of weapons. We all know the Eviction Notice is bad, the Warrior's Spirit the Cleaner's Carbine the Scorch Shot...
And Valve does nothing.
@@llmkursk8254 Rift weapons exist since 2011 and received 0 changes. That's what I call waiting for god knows what, Valve.
@@MariaFlores-KAII It's not even good in Medieval. Med packs drop everywhere. The Back Scratcher is THE Pyro melee for Medieval mode.
once you use the caber for a few months you really get the feel for it and it's extremely fun. the bugs are annoying, but with some learning you can mitigate almost all of them except for the bugs that apply to all explosives.
I want a Strange Vita-Saw so bad. It's looks so fucking cool.
Why does the thumbnail's Gabe model look so cursed to me?
Closest thing I can think of that could have gotten the Bison its nerfs was holding fire and quick swapping between it and the rocket launcher letting you barrage chokes hard, (give it a try it is good fun) but its not really a problem since reloading both weapons prevents it from being strong, and beggers + banner combo exists which is much better for choke blasting, otherwise crits were strong, random or otherwise but everything is strong with crits, so my best guess is someone at Valve just really disliked it, I would love to see it buffed back to what it once was, a weapon that did great damage against classes that run backwards with it while trying to flee the might of a silly bison soldier.
Pre nerf Bison was as op as possible defending the first choke on Borneo. It was so gross I joked that I was responsible for the nerf.
Thanks for introducing me to budhud by the way, it's a really good hud!
I feel like the caber needs to be replenished on ammo pickup
Awesome video, hope u keep posting
The baby face's blaster was truly terrifying back in 2014 (a year after I started playing) and was probably the only weapon on this list imo that needed a huge nerf. However they effectively destroyed the weapon's capabilities which really sucks. I propose a couple ways to fix the BFB:
1: No double jump, boost increases jump height and movement speed, boost reduction upon taking dmg scaled to dmg done (eg. 1% boost lost per 1 dmg taken, so a direct pipe or a rocket would get rid of all boost but stray bullets would only remove a little bit)
2: No double jump, boost not lost on damage taken, and -25 max health (so a direct pipe/rocket would insta-skill scout much like if he were carrying the candy cane)
Okay, while I agree that all of these weapons were given the shaft, I have to correct one thing:
People most certainly *did* complain about the Enforcer for awhile when it was first added to the game. The issue with it wasn't so much its increased damage, but the way that the Enforcer's stats collectively synergized with other Spy weapons. The Enforcer was the offensive power of the infamous Dr. Enforcicle loadout.
For you youngsters who weren't around in 2011 when this loadout existed, I'll explain. The Enforcer's cloak inhibiting stat gave a delay to the Invis Watch and the CaD, but it *didn't* work on the Dead Ringer, which was much stronger back then than it is now. This meant you could pepper enemies with the Enforcer, then instantly bring the DR up as soon as they retaliated. At the time, the DR lasted slightly longer, its damage resistance was a lot higher, and its meter could be both replenished and its cloak time could be lengthened by ammo packs and Dispensers, making it much more obnoxious to deal with. A few months later, the 2011 Smissmas update added the Spy-cicle, which was again quite strong when it was added. It gave you several seconds of fire resistance, *10* seconds of afterburn immunity, and it was a silent killer like the YER. All of this put together meant that you were now facing a Spy who could consistently hit you with 60-70 damage shots and, if you tried to fight him back, was essentially indestructible without intense focused fire, spamming status effects like Jarate or bleed damage, or a lot of luck.
-Good times.-
Players did not like this very much. Hence, all 3 weapons have since been nerfed.
I'm melancholic about your return to tf2. I was excited for more smash videos and other video game reviews.
I'm still gonna make those! I'm actually recording footage for one on the side as we speak. I've got a ton over at my Opal Reviews Everything channel.
0:53 i gotta stop you there. Overdose is the next best medic's primary after the crossbow.
Upd: 2:18 short stop is also good. Ok i'm turning the video off. Not that i am this short tempered, it's just that I already know all about the topic and only watch those types of videos as comfort content. But i would prefer to watch them from someone who, you know, is knowledgeable about the game. Or at least cares to be.
The only feasible reason for valve's obvious distain for the bison & pomson would be for there to have been some sort of under the table clash with the Dr. Grordbort company responsible for the designs of both the tf2 weapons we actually got and the scrapped ideas that never made it into the game, as well as the irl model productions.
the shortstop is goated
Was not expecting an opal video in 2023
A weapon I feel might deserve to be on this list, is the Buffalo Steak Sandvich.
That hidden 20% damage vulnerability is really hard to justify and has been there since the weapon was added in 2010
Baby face's blaster is actually completely fine with cleaver, boston basher and wrap assasin in whatever your preferences are, they increase your DPS if you can aim but more importantly keep you gaining boost even when you're not firing, and that combined with bleed effect really annoys the enemy. BFB is certified lime scout gun.
As for enforcer, remember that valve nerfed razorback, sniper can't be overhealed anymore, enforcer now 2shots him, I think that's a good enough niche.
honestly just make the enforcer do double damage for the disguised shot and no random crits (if it even can right now) and make it a proper ambush weapon. One single double damage non-crit boosted revolver shot will at worst one-shot classes with 120 health or less at point blank and maximum damage ramp-up. So, Sandman scouts and unboosted kunai spies. The horror.
one thing to point out is that he will hurt friendlies on choice
ahh, I miss the good old days where we could terrorize snipers with the Caber :) those were the good times
The caber is the Melee weapon equivalent to ISIS, and not for the obvious terrorist joke: was once really scary, now considered a joke for how weak it is in its current state.
How to fix the Baby Face's Blaster:
Step 1: Remove the Double Jump Penalty.
Step 2: Make the Damage to Self to Boost Lost ratio 1:1 with the Damage Dealt to Boost Gained ratio.
Step 3: Give it the same amount of bullets as stock
Step 4: Reduce the rate of fire.
Step 5: Profit.
someone threw a real life bison model at Gabes dog so he nerfed the bison
Likely the bug referenced by Valve was how the projectile would do very inconsistent damage hitting a target multiple times in the same tick due to how damaged ticks work. In fact actually the reason why it's so weak right now despite being technically reverted is because damage ticks were changed in jungle inferno to be way more consistent but slower. This is why the gun is in such a bad state
I remember the Bison change was because of MvM, since the fact the projectile could hit an enemy multiple times and Robots had a set path that they could move... You could basically have Bison shots keep running through the same group of enemies and essentially be the bulk of damage
They then added gas passer and made everything besides phlog pyro completely irrelevant.
The caber is good on hybridknight. If you're mostly using your primary and charge for movement. But then opportunistically slamming into a crowd with a crit explosion once a life.
1) The Baby Face's Blaster can be fun with its current system of upsides and downsides. It just needs the damage requirements to be higher (a 100 damage meatshot isn't the hardest thing to get, even in two shots), and the threshold for losing Boost to be more forgiving (50 damage instead of 25)
2) Ironically enough, the single hit per player part of its rework isn't such a bad idea. It makes the projectile more consistent in terms of damage. It honestly just needs to deal higher damage to compete with the shotguns to be anywhere near fun, but a faster projectile speed and more consistent hitbox wouldn't be bad.
3) The Ullapool Caber's biggest cited nerf reason is that it used to oneshot Medics. Which, granted, is a pretty powerful thing in competitive TF2. Your demo could just stickyjump across the map, trade his life for the enemy Medic, and suddenly the enemy team has less uber than yours does. But it honestly would be nicer if it could at least oneshot light classes, and recharge over time and with ammo packs. Its downsides justify being a oneshot melee tool, but not to the degree of its damage and lack of mini-crits off of shields.
4) I really have nothing to add to the Vita-Saw, but it does remind me that the Crossing Guard is the only strange weapon (as in, a weapon you hurt players with) that has no killstreak kit. I have no idea why, as even the Vita-Saw has killstreak kits. There are weapons that do not have strange variants that have killstreak kits. The only way to get a Crossing Guard with a killstreak kit is to either use one of the extremely rare universal ones, or to buy one that is the result of that.
5) I have nothing to add for the Enforcer. At least its damage resistance pierce was properly fixed outside of sapper armor!
If you want a suggestion for a server that handles weapon rebalances well, I always suggest Bad Weapon Rehabilitation. A lot of the changes have been tested and tweaked over the past year+, and while some changes are a bit more controversial or odd, as a whole I feel the balance changes would be healthy for the game if implemented. We've been without a balance patch for nearly 6 years now, and the current weapon balance state of TF2 is so stale I've actually seen retreads on videos talking about weapons. We are starved for some fresh changes, and Valve has 6 years of player feedback to look at instead of a few months.
Bro did overdose dirty 😭
As a scout enjoyer the baby face's blaster *needs* it's current negatives. You don't need to win a fight to get boost, you only need to land one good shot. It's perfectly fine to double jump mid combat with it because you will gain back your boost instantly if you're playing well. When you're able to run so fast that it generates a misconception that you are outrunning your hitbox, there needs to be strong counters to it
I would love to see some love for the caber. I personally would like a rework of it to be the demo equivalent of the equalizer. Less health = more damage. Keeps the weapon from being the 1 shot menace it was pre-nerf and changes it into more or less a last stand weapon.
I feel the caber should be a 500 dmg kill on the user and target, with high splash damage but equally high drop off for distance. At that point, it can ONLY be a meme weapon / sniper disposal tool, but what else are you using the caber for, anyway?
Let's be real, they could just delete the Vita-Saw and nothing would change
I still don't know why the loch 'n load has building damage only cuz it was suppose the demoman virson of the direct hit so why did they nerf it and leave the direct hit how is the direct hit on demo broken?last time I checked it it harder to hit a curving projectile than a projectile that moves in a stright line
1:15 - 1:19 That movement prediction was painful to watch XD.
listen dood the Bison is HARD okay
@@TealOpal It's not just the Bison...
The bison makes me sad it used to be my favourite weapon to piss around with now it's not even fun to be a ray gun soilder
Alright, listen, the Overdose is like, the second most viable Medic primary, it isn't THAT bad.
Valve Secretly loved the Phlog it's why they trickled slowly with nerfs but, still kept it OP. It's why I use it >:3
I just want my Bison back, dude 😥
There are multiple Bioshock Infinite cosmetics in game. Not sure why the Vita Saw would be a problem.
Don’t underestimate the Baby Faces though, I use it all the time and crush other scouts.
Welcome back opal. Remember when you become a tf2 fan, you sell your soul to vavle. All hail Gaben!
Anyway yeah their is some weapon out their just you can tell vable wants to delete. Also about the baby face blaster out running the hitbox is actually false. The reason why it people were saying that because the scout was going faster.
If I recall correctly, A LOT of the reasons why some weapons like the Bison got nerfed hard by Valve is according to the community due to TF2 UA-camrs claiming whatever weapon they're using is good and their audience taking them at face value going into the game to use that weapon, sure a weapon can have its dedicated fans but Valve has the data that we don't so when they see that a weapon is used more often than any other, they're going to be under the impression that something might be wrong with the weapon balance wise and make changes accordingly in an attempt to ring it back in so it no longer can be in the spotlight.
I usually find the idea of weapon reskins to be boring, but I think that Valve should make a reskin of the Vita Saw with a new name and look but the same stats.
weapon reskins in tf2 have always been a strange case to me...
great blue reference
Wasn't bison like really OP with Kritzkrieg?
The caber should instantly kill scoped in snipers
It still does, but you have to crouch before hitting them
holy shit jungle inferno was 7 years ago....
I think the babyface was at its absolute best when it first came out. More accurate, much lower damage, and jumping *at all* completely removed your boost. I've also toyed with the idea of a slightly tweaked original blaster where instead of losing all boost on jumping, it straight up removes your double jump. Heck, make it remove air-jumping at all so that you can't even circumvent it with the atomizer. The idea of a weapon that trades off scout's vertical movement for even greater horizontal isn't really all that bad. It's just that when it first came out, no one used it. Then it got buffed and everyone hated it. People didn't even avoid using the original version because it was bad, they just didn't really want to bother using anything aside from the doubles, stock, and at that point in time, the shortstop as it had its heal bonus fully intact. A classic case of a good weapon getting overbuffed simply because people refused to stop using other weapons out of comfort. Given the shortstop's current situation and the gravitation away from the FaN, I think the original recipe blaster would be a pretty solid pick up.
blue fella return
the ulapool caber would be an acceptable meme weapon if either it could still one-shot a light class, or regenerate after a timer like every other weapon with limited use not tied to ammo packs
Is the community creator not entitled to the enjoyment from his Vitasaw? NO says the Bioshock Lawyer!
Also I seem to recall a rumour that the caber was hit so hard because players would pair it with the most Arab looking cosmetics as an insensitive meme.
Bold of you to assume valve cares about any part of TF2
Wait, if the Vita Saw is on here cause it has no strange, then where is the the Buffalo Steak?
I think the Baby Face's Blaster could be decently balanced if they reverted the amount lost on double jump back down to 25 and made it lose less boost from taking damage. It might be annoying, sure, but it wouldn't be overpowered, really. It's one of those weapons that really just needs the numbers tweaked then it'd probably be fine.
the vita saw is so rarely used and forgettable ive seen less vita saws than i have golden pans
I MISS THE OLD CABER! Sticky jumping unexpected snipers and blowing them up with the caber when it was brand new was one of the most HILARIOUS and BEST times I had! Seeing snipers get so MAD and calling you every swear word in the dictionary was a satisfying feeling. I’m guessing my so many sniper mains lobbied and begged valve to nerf the weapon and sadly, they got their wish! Never forget the fun times with the caber!
they should add reset on ammo pickup to the caber
Honestly just give the bfb a lot more meter scout can gain but same benefit and heavily nerf the boost lose rate. And fixed!
the only one here that makes sence is really teh bison thats it
One thing I always noticed back in the day when VALVe still changed weapons. Is VALVe does it all ham-handed. They never change just one stat in a nerf and see its effect. Even the BFB is an example. Why not try the damage-speed-reduction stat OR the doublejump stat? Why do both?
Or the Bison? They reduced its speed, no penetration, and changed its damage. Why do they always change more than one stat?
Whenever they change one stat it typically goes well. Like the Soda Popper, they just changed its ability and nothing else, and it worked out. They never want to do things slowly, always they nerf things so ham-handedly.
Because valve... Gun spy nerf was dead ringer AND ambassador. There was no reason to nerf ambassador.
which hud mod is this?
TF2 players when they have to play with the normal hud, also why only have weapon images in the kill feed that seems quite silly
Hoenaly Baby face blaster is Probaby the beat 1vs1 Wepon that scout have and you can combo with winger fan or war and other stuff so caling it "The worst" is eh
Pretty sure valve just hates tf2 in general these days.
Your reasoning about the Vita-Saw is very wrong, it was nerfed because of the competitive scene. It messes up uber tracking and also forces both meds to run it because if you medic dies, your team will often sac in to get the enemy med, and you get an uncounterable uber advantage if you're on Vita Saw and they're not. You don't tend to run ubersaw in 6s ever, because you are never getting melee hits against Scouts, Demos, or Soldiers. In HL there was a real choice since you can get saw hits on the enemy Spy, but Vita was still problematic.
Thabks ;D
The bison op
Wtf u mean?
the actual reason that the caber was nerfed into the ground was because higher level heavies or sollies were upset that with the right situation, the old caber could 1 shot a medic at full hp
Demoknight with 4 heads can do this in front of a sentry and get out alive, even if medic is overhealed, because melee crit does 195 damage...
The fact that caber is strict downgrade makes this nerf mean nothing, it's just a cope.
Overdose is actually really good in clinic trial set :(
given how easy it is to lose the baby face blaster's boost why not give it a boost on hit depending on damage dealt that last a certain amount of time, again depending on damage dealt so that you cant shot someone across the map and get a full boost for free. keep the speed penalty but make it able to exceed scout's base speed like the og one with meatshots. It sounds a bit boring and in essence it's really gonna be played like a wackier stock but eh. At worse you could give a boost similar to the soda popper so that he doesnt keep it forever when a big fight happens
I think claiming Valve actively hates the Enforcer is a bit odd. It was nerfed pretty heavily, sure, but it's not really in a bad spot now, either. People like to say it's a bad weapon, but that just genuinely is not true. Its only negative stat is a firing speed penalty that doesn't matter very much since to use the Revolver to its fullest potential you need to space your shots for the accuracy to reset anyway, and piercing damage resistances is a genuinely useful albeit niche feature. It doesn't really compete with the L'etranger due to them serving frankly complete opposite purposes, and considering the state of the Ambassador, genuinely the only reason not to use it is that the Diamondback is just kinda silly balance-wise.