The manner of death in this case was undetermined. Why would you charge a hit and run, let alone second-degree homicide, when the manner of death is undetermined? Nobody is going to believe those injuries are from a vehicle.
@@kittymartin2982he had a brain bleed. And two black eyes. Hypothermia didn’t cause that. There was no DNA or tissue under Karen’s car. He died in that house.
I mean if the manner of death is undetermined , how can you even really charge someone for murdering them then, kinda doesn't make sense, if U don't know the cause of death then how can U possibly know it's murder. Ya know.
The evidence prooved the DNA was on the suv Karen was driving . The Tailight was busted and evidence found. Evidence Karen HIT him and had motive is undeniable. Karen said herself she hit him. Karen went right to the body. Karen was unfaithful with Higgins and mentioned hiw she hated John for cheating as well as despising John's Kids. Karen was reported as a jealous lady in Aruba as testified by witnesse. Karen told Jen M she had a terrible Fight with John that night. If that's not enough evidence what is FFS??
@@Ieezecathis is about John not Karen. The kids don't care for her. She didn't care for them either. Instead of staying and comforting them after she killed their uncle she left and ran to her parents house. That speaks volumes
@@AlittlebitofMari she lost her boyfriend of many years and saw him dead on the house of a person she knew and she did not knew how he died or what happened, its logical her reaction was like that.
LEARN the whole story. Those kids loved Karen until JM hijacked JO"s family. The woman just had the most horrible experience of her life. She loved them. Stop with the hate bombs. Jen started telling the family she hit him and admitted it to her b4 they were even home from the hospital. Her bail had a no contact order. Jen broke that family apart & and continues to this day.
As a juror, do you think they are wondering why the lead investigator and medical examiner haven't testified. Why all the secondary people instead of primary? Seems this plays into the defense narrative.
@@Michelle-bl7uo the Prosecution has to call the Medical Examiner to explain John’s injuries, no one else is qualified. Typically the Prosecution doesn’t wait 7 weeks because it’s important info.
Maybe, if they know how trials work usually.... I probably wouldn't wonder this if it were me coz I'd probably just be assuming they know who is important to testify not 🤷 Coz I'm a bit naive & stupid like that sometimes In some scenarios and I reckon this is one of them I'd be stupid in 🤷🤪
And those who are testifying are avoiding a straight answer. It seems the judge is leaning towards the cw per papa because she isn’t used to the defense coming on with their own evidence t change the narrative. If I were a juror I wouldn’t believe the cw - def reasonable doubt!
@@bettywillbrowseit’s not stupid :) there’s no shame in not knowing. That’s why the prosecution must be the ones to give the jurors what they need, and the judge must instruct the jurors on how to apply the law. You are not stupid :) you’re smarter than anyone who wouldn’t admit they don’t know!
@@JustinTyme33so adults should be allowed to drink and drive putting others at risk while they're under the influence on the road? Really? You'd change your mind quick if someone you cared about/ loved had their life stolen from them because some entitled a**hat decided to drink to excess & then drive! I'm sorry you're comment is so uninformed & ignorant! The message of don't drink & drive doesn't just pertain to teens -smh
Brian A. has dirt on every powerful person in a 50-mile radius because he helped them do crimes, so all he has to say to get some help from them is, "if I go down, you're going down with me." Brian H. helped bring John out through the garage, and put him in the back of a vehicle (allegedly). They drove to the far side of the yard & placed John's body near the road, because the plan was to say he must've been hit by a snow plow. Then, Karen told Jen that she was so frantic, she cracked her tail light backing into John's car at 5am as she left home that morning. Jen secretly called her sister from the car at 6:04am & whispered, "Karen cracked her tail light! I told her she could've hit John with her car!" Brian said that was a much better story to go with (allegedly). Canton PD took everything he told them at face value. They didn’t take 1 photo of John's body at the scene. They should have. That's standard procedure in every police department in the world. So is measuring (or drawing a chalk outkine) where the body was, documenting everything, including all interviews, in reports, and 20 other basic aspects of police work that Canton PD opted out of on 1/29/22. 3 quarts of John's blood were lost according to the ME, but were never located. Only a few separate small spots of blood were around him. The 3 quarts were in Brian Albert's basement (allegedly), where nobody looked. That's why he ripped the floor out & replaced it afterward. The trial has presented objective proof of misconduct & nefarious behavior on the part of the Alberts, the McCabes, and all involved law enforcement officers.
I just wrote a similar comment!! (Yours is more specific!) the fight wasn’t planned.. they were going to just let John be found, and let the pd assume it was a plow! When Karen came out looking for John, and may have even mentioned that she was angry with him the night before.. I 1000% agree that’s why Jen called her sister, and claimed she didn’t answer the phone! She needed to let her in on her newest plan! Holy crap! There’s no doubt in my mind that they did it! Also, I think Higgins will eventually turn on them if he ends up losing his career, home, etc.. he’s not family, and he def seemed the most upset and scared to death on the stand!!
the Karen Reed case is so intriguing. I do not trust the local or State police, this is crazy, I hope the defense, gets the time they need. If the trial stopped today, their is so much reasonable doubt.
Same. I am a huge supporter of law enforcement; my father was in the bleu family and I married into the TBL family. It wasn’t until Kyle Rittenhouse that I saw with my own eyes how corrupt and incompetent some (few, relatively) law enforcement can be. I was convinced that there were so many levels of oversight that I found it hard to believe that there were as many (as I do now) innocent individuals locked away, some condemned to death. By default, I believe in the men in women in blue but I have an open mind. THIS case is beyond suss. I trying believe there are very few departments that still run on the “good ol’ boys” and nepotistic system. It’s no secret that the New England departments have always and still live by the same standards they have always been known for. With as many LEOs I have been friends with and/or spent any amount of time having conversation with, most departments have distanced themselves from even the appearance of inappropriate conduct/behavior.
They will. It would violate Karen's rights if they didn't get enough time and it would guarantee an appeal. Karen's right to freedom, and taking that freedom away is more important than anything the prosecution could say, so they will get what they need, even if it seems like the judge is kinda on the common wealth's side.
Seems like the cops in that town drink and drive as much as the general public!! The defence should be questioning how much they had to drink but of course they would just lie about it anyways! This whole case should have never even gone this far!! So much reasonable doubt!!!
The problem is there’s so much BS in this case, a absolute 💩 investigation, the detectives seizing property and goi g through it before having warrants, the videoed being purported flipped and the prosecution, and the weirdo detective, not stating this fact. But purposely stating they never touched the passenger side light. When they clearly were back by the passenger side doing something. But they wanted everyone to believe we were looking at the passenger side. Phones being thrown away, destroyed the day before an order was sent out to preserve their phones. They were obviously tipped off. But dials, google searches, “hos long to die in cold”…all around 2AM. I came into this trial not knowing anything and I come from a law enforcement family, so I thought what little I knew was most likely BS…. But I’m sorry, I dont believe anything the Prosecution, detectives, Troopers, DA, witnesses, says! Not one word. I feel sorry for Officer John O'Keefe, his family, Karen, and those children. Because of the crap job done in the investigation by these incompetent Troopers John will never get justice. And maybe that was the plan. They should be charged for this. It’s absolutely sickening
Every single word - spot on! I also came in blind and leaned towards the State at 1st. Didn't last long! Solo cups and a leaf blower for collecting such important evidence, that of a fallen comrade is such a disgrace!
You're absolutely right. When I watch this trial I honestly don't even think that im watching a trial about a man that was murdered. I'm too busy saying to my self "why is this witness so unbelievable and what do they have to hide"? The prosecutions witnesses seem shady as hell ands that's where my focus is while I watch this trial. And John was a good man...
@jeannehood1222 what theatrics? All the witnesses from the prosecution have got ridden of their phones, dog, home, can't get their stories right. Prosecution hasn't showed how much she had to drink, video was misrepresented, evidence tainted because of solo cups, Proctor name in ever thing because he didn't use the CSS to collect evidence. What evidence has Prosecution shown? Even the little clip he played is not a confession. She hit something but I'm not sure it was John. Karen hit John and no one saw or heard anything at all?
Yes because this country is filled with wanna be Americans that blindly “back the blue” . This cucked American society has created this monster! WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!
I was really trying to hang onto the open mind concept, putting aside the cover up theory, the set up of Karen Read theory, and just look at the facts that the prosecutor was putting forward. However I was becoming frustrated with the inconsistencies by all these witnesses, and just had to wonder why this case was charged, I'm looking for the proof that clearly must be there. Sadly, after the video debacle at the garage, I just can't let it go anymore. I don't know what happened to John O'Keefe, but the behavior of all his friends, is truly beyond acceptable., and so many of them are in law enforcement, in some capacity, and should know better. Too dang much!!
How you can see the case as not a complete disaster is bizarre given the amount of police corruption, incestuous connectios, outright lying, destroyed phones, deleted evidence and buttduals! Ridiculous!
It’s cause he’s an actor. He’s playing the part of an impartial onlooker. He’s not giving his truly honest opinion of what he is seeing, like all lawyers it’s an act.
I agree with him. People are swayed by different things. If this is being done right, they jury right now doesn't have the public speculation and ability to rewatch and revisit testimony and evidence to catch things they didn't the first go round. They may not be seeing the significance of one thing or another. And we have all seen trials where people were convicted despite there being an abundance of reasonable doubt.
Karen Read is known to have angry rage jealousy moments over John .please everyone watch the entire trial and listen to the witnesses and damming text messages please
Please everyone pay no attention to all the dim McAlbert familiars and all the perjurous temtimony. Technology, in sickening detail, exposes the poorly performed frame job on KR. Justice is coming for JJ, in FBI windbreakers
Well, this is the first time I’ve listened to Vinnie’s Podcast. He just outlined how to successfully prosecute a case when you want to frame someone. He would file lesser charges so there wouldn’t be complications like lots of witness testimony and to many things that needed to be proven. He’s trying to give Lolly a quick seminar in how to frame someone more successful. Nice going Vinnie. It says a lot about you if that’s your first reaction to deeply criminal offenses by a city police department, state police agency , a DEA agent and the Commonwealth’s office of the District Attorney. WTF😮
This case continues to blow my mind. I honestly have no idea what really happened, I feel for the jury trying to do the right thing with this mess. Great job as always Vinnie, youre the best 👌
It’s clear that she did it? In my mind, that’s the LEAST clear thing so far. This case is just AWFUL and exposes every evil in our justice system and police department that people worry about. So we don’t want competent defense attorneys because they make things hard on the prosecution?? What an awful take on this case.
Why would a prosecutor try to prove Karen Read had nine drinks by having an officer narrate what he believes he sees in front of her on a camera that is located behind her? There was a camera behind that bar. Why didn't they use that footage so we could see what she was actually being served, and why can't we see the actual receipt with the drinks she paid for?
And why prove she was drunk if you also need to prove intent?? They say it was deliberately done, by a barely functional drunk?? I think they should have picked one or the other.
@@brynb245 legit!!!! Proving she was shitfaced drunk only proves that she's much much less capable of making a premeditated decision to kill him by hitting him with her car and pretending not to see... The drunk thing only potentially could prove involuntary manslaughter, if anything.... Imo.
They need to be focusing on recreating the accident and explaining John’s injuries not what Karen had to drink. She’s not going to prison over a tail light .
The original plan was to suggest John was hit by a snow plow. Then, Karen mentioned later that she cracked her tail light at 5am & Jen suggested perhaps she could have hit him.
Exactly! It seems like they are just going through the motions…political pressure to prosecute even though they don’t really believe in their case…it happens!
Agree with you.. sorry but not sorry Vinnie this theory is no working here, she do not hurt him. And young people take pictures like crazy. Like every time they breath 😅 where are all of that pictures.? Ahh they deleted it, no intentional of course. Just things happen. SHAME IN THIS PEOPLE
Why is there blood on his shoes? If he is hit and laid out on the yard on his back, why are his shoes covered in blood? Nothing in this case makes sense
Why is there blood on his shoes? If he is hit and laid out on the yard on his back, why are his shoes covered in blood? Nothing in this case makes sense
I can't get past the clothes. The staining on the front of OJOK clothing shows he was upright when injured and stayed upright for a bit, because gravity. Then the puncture (tear drp shaped holes) damage to his right sleeve. That's not blunt force abrasions!! There are so many other things that don't fit in this, that I have reasonable doubt. But the laws of gravity can't be overcome by a "trust me bro" prosecution.
I just…I don’t know, Vinnie. It is easier for me to believe a fight broke out over Higgins texts to Karen, and it went too far. I don’t think they MEANT to kill him. Because let’s just be logical here….he was NOT HIT by that car. I have tried and tried over and over to come up with some scenario that has THOSE injuries with THAT car. I cant
The FBI investigating the investigators agrees with you... and hired their own professional crime scene reconstructionists who of course also had the autopsy photos. They concluded that John was not hit by a car, and a car did not hit John. The defense will be presenting that if Lally ever shuts up so the defense can finally present their case.
Yup and they all selfishly thought about their own careers instead of attempting to help him. They all had enough training to stop the head lac bleeding and call for help. Instead they destroyed many lives and took a great man away from those that loved him. My heart breaks for the niece and nephew the most.
The real elephant in the room is if Vinnie was a DA and this case was dropped on his desk would he smell something afoul and still prosecute or investigate the investigation?
Jen went in the Albert house and told them Karen thinks she hit him and then the framing began... otherwise they would have blamed the snow plow driver
@@KristieMAC1Jen went busting into their bedroom and no dog attacked her, or the cop sleeping inside the bedroom was not on alert when a stranger busts through your door?? BS they knew everything on the lawn before Jen came through the door…Brian told everyone to stay away from the scene, how could a family stay inside their house instead of go out to see what happened on the lawn?? Bizarre 😮
First, I want to say I’ve been watching you since I was a teen! I’m 44 now. My mom used to watch a ton of Court TV. With that said, I can see some bias on your part. Incoming long post. I wish I could have a personal conversation with you about this case. 1:08:53 Vinnie. Be reasonable. I think they were counting on people thinking JOK was hit by a plow. Karen was frantic and stated “Could I have hit him?”I believe that’s when they decided to throw her under the bus. There’s a channel on UA-cam where the creator is a police dog trainer. It’s got millions of followers. I saw a lawyer interview him. He’s been doing it for many years. Remember, Chloe was a failed police dog. The trainer showed the arm that they wear when they’re training the dogs. The bite marks look _exactly_ like the wounds on JOK’s arm. He also explained how a German Shepherd bites things. They can bite just with their top teeth and bottom. The trainer said the wounds on JOK’s arms were definitely dog bites. If there was a fight in the Albert’s basement(where I believe the wound on the back of John’s head was made by hitting him with a weight), maybe Chloe got upset and started biting John. Maybe she was given the same order she learned in police dog training to attack perpetrators, and that’s where the wounds on John’s arm came from. The prosecution theory that she backed up at 25 mph in 60 feet is impossible. Go out to a large empty parking lot and try and do it yourself. I tried it. You get out of control at 15 mph. Remember, the street is curved in front of the Albert’s house *_and_* it was snowing. In 60 feet, JOK would have had PLENTY of time to step out of the way. *_If_* it was even possible to get up to that speed in reverse, you’d flip an SUV. When Karen spoke about Colin and Higgins beating up JOK, and made her comment about everyone being in on the same joke, she was being sarcastic. You can’t hear the sarcasm in her voice? I heard it instantly. When she made the comment about JOK’s face being pulverized and her tail light being cracked, she was pointing out how ridiculous the accusation was because he didn’t have any other injuries besides the injuries on his face and his arm. As in, how could John’s face be as injured as it was if only her tail light was cracked. When Lally characterized the statement as an admission of guilt, he wasn’t being honest with the jury. The jury will hear the sarcasm in Karen’s voice. I was an EMT for years. You’d see WAY more injuries to JOK if he was hit at that speed and dragged as the prosecution says. He’d have broken bones all over his body. It’s ridiculous. The ME report says JOK lost 3 pints of blood. It also says JOK’s manner of death is undetermined. So where was the blood? They only found a small amount of blood there. It’d be all over the snow!! We also saw the video where Jen and Kerry get to John’s house to drop off Karen’s car, Karen never went to the back of the car to show them anything. They also did provide a motive for the Alberts to harm John. The texts between Higgins and Karen. What if drunk JOK said something about it, BA and BH say let’s go down to the basement and talk about it, and the fight occurred. If it got out of hand, that’s where the conspiracy would start. Everyone at the house would be implicated. BA may have told everyone to go along with the story because they’d go down with him. Why was the Ford Edge supposedly right in front of the flag pole right where JOK was found? Maybe it was to cover up them placing John’s body where he was found? The police in the family and BH would have a lot to lose if a fight did get out of hand. Also, why did Proctor hold onto evidence in his trunk for so long? No chain of custody for some evidence. How could they keep adding pieces of tail light when the scene wasn’t secure?? How could unknown glass stay on Karen’s bumper while she drove to the McCabe’s house? And a hair? Not buying what the prosecution is selling. It’s an insult to our intelligence. The “what if anything” comments were because Lally has said it well over a thousand times in this case. There’s a lawyer on UA-cam who has been counting them. Another thing, the FBI hired a public accident reconstruction firm and had three experts look at the case. All three came back and said there was no way Karen could have done this. This information was passed to the defense, in fairness to Karen. These experts are on the witness list. Alan will call them all. Former Manhattan prosecutor Mark Bederow has talked about this when he’s been a guest on different podcasts. That’s why the defense has said to wait for their turn. Because they know they have that in their pocket. Likely, these are some of the experts Lally wants to keep out. We also know the FBI is investigating this case for corruption. What else would they be investigating besides Higgins breaking the law with using the government’s resources for personal gains and why it was done. Also, why would Higgins take his phone to his friend who specializes in forensic analysis of electronics and only take screenshots of certain conversations knowing he was about to get an order for his phone?? Then, he takes his phone and SIM card and destroys them, then takes them to a military base to throw them in separate trash cans! You don’t find that suspicious? Also, arguing over Cellebrite data is ridiculous. It’s the gold standard. You likely know that. So BA and BH butt dial each other and a ghost answers the phone when they say they didn’t answer the phone?? The data says they did. It also says JM’s search of hos long to die in cold was at 2:36am. It was one of the things she deleted along with twenty calls and texts. Is that suspicious to you? She could have been trying to cover up the search deletion by searching again at 5:30am, when Karen came around frantic, with the same spelling error and the other search hos long ti die in cikd. Sorry for the long post. I just had a lot to say about this livestream. There’s so much suspicious behavior by the McAlberts that I absolutely could believe a conspiracy is happening here. The sloppy investigation doesn’t help. Their nasty and sarcastic tone, plus the way they distanced themselves from JOK by calling him “the guy” in the group text and everything but JOK while testifying, besides Kerry. I could go on and on pointing out all the shenanigans, but the post would be even longer. PS Even though I’m questioning some of your beliefs and statements about this case, I still think you’re awesome! 😎 🕺🏼
I feel like Jen McCabe could of put the idea of Karen hitting John with her car into Karen's head while she was driving her the next morning. I think Karen was so distraught that she would have been in a highly suggestable state.
So much smoke and mirrors ! Phones. Or rather lack of phones. Butt dials. Calls - Hos long to die in the snow @ 2.37am. Evidence gathering - over a period of days in an insecure crime scene. Albert’s house completely swerved. The Sally port and the prosecutors sly sneaky footage he thought no one would catch on to ! I’m convinced Karen is innocent !
Vinnie...your dogs are barking, you hear them...someone walking by. CHLOE. No barking when half the town is in her front yard/ sirens blaring. No barking when McJen barges in tge bedroom. Not buying it...ty for making the point w your dog.
Not just a crime scene , a scene where their brother in Arms was killed. They went all the way to NY for the funeral of an officer they never knew but they didn't go to their John's , close friend's and fellow cop's funeral
It’s absolutely ridiculous my aunt was murdered yrs ago they would not let anyone in the home they stop you from entering the home so you can’t contaminate the crime scene
I don't think they planned on framing Karen until she ASKED did I hit him, I think that's when Jen ran in the house and said Karen thinks she could have hit him and mentioned the taillight.
Here is the only theory besides an accident that could make sense to me. Based on GPS John got to BAs house around 1224. His Apple Watch says at that time 80 steps begin ( I did some measurements using Google Earth and it is 80 ft from the street to BAs door then back to flagpole). Then his GPS coordinates place him at the flagpole and at 1231 36 steps begin. It is exactly 36 feet from the flagpole back to the house. I think John drops his phone on his way to the door and he starts walking back to look for it. (I think Karen had already pulled off at this point because a voicemail she left at 1241 you can hear John’s garage door opening and it takes about 7 mins from BAs to John’s house, it was snowing so it could of taken 2-3 extra mins longer.) then he can’t find it so he goes inside to get someone to call his phone and there is a 10 mins where something bad could of happened, they can’t find his phone which is the first thing they would look For being that they are cops so Jen starts the “butt dials” while she’s texts in between the butt dials aka her outside calling and texting his phone over and over again to find the location & that’s where they decide to place his body. The only reason I think why maybe it would be so Jen important to Jen is if something did happen with Colin and Allie McCabe picked him up, if he was even there then.
Hit by a vehicle and not 1 broken bone and lands on his back laid out? That alone is unbelievable! Add all these unbelievable butt dials and answering butt dials with a butt answer. Missing videos, missing phones, deleted calls, I don’t recalls and the shoddiest of all investigations.
I don't know much at all about this case, but the little tiny bit I do know, I thought these guys had been drinking, got into a fight, they realize later he's dead, and they try to cover up.
I think it was Brian as well and I don’t believe it was intentional at all. He also seems to have the most “Shady” behavior to me. Incidentally he left the earliest!
@@MzWriteNow that's actually an interesting point. If the jury decides for Karen Read, how safe will they feel? Will they want to live in that community for the rest of their lives, knowing that any time they need to call 911 one of *these* guys might show up? Or NOT? Scary
Ignoring all of the many problems w/ this case (the elephant in the room, so to speak), where is the evidence that Karen Read hit Officer John O'Keefe? Where is it? Waiting.
Exactly! Same here. All we need to know is: Was Karen behind the wheel? Was John in proximity? Had she been drinking? Did she has a compelling motive to hit him (if she was that upset) rather than just leave him? (Was she violent in previous breakups?) Then they need to show compelling evidence that John was hit by a car and that Karen's car did it.
The inverted video changed everything for me. If I were a juror I would be swayed by that and the little hair on the tail light traveling 60 miles unmoved 🤦🏻♀️
QQQ: Vinnie, why cant you see that the key piece of evidence is...WHAT THE REAR TAIL LIGHT LOOKED LIKE BEFORE LAW ENFORCEMENT TOOK THE CAR???? That is key because this proves whether and what she hit and whether there were any pieced to plant. COME ON VINNIE. Open your ears.
I agree. The ring cam video is missing. The video from the library is missing. Both would prove her light was in tact when she drove home. I don’t believe in coincidences.
There is no evidence of what her tail light looked like…because all the inept law enforcement agencies failed to photograph it before they took custody of it. Bukhenik & Johns niece/nephew cleared up the missing Ring footage…any Ring data was sent to Proctor.
I think you misunderstand the defense's position. They are not saying someone premeditated an attack on John as you infer (you said "who would want to take him away from those kids?). Their argument is there was a fight in the heat of the moment with a lot of alcohol involved. I really don't find that hard to believe at all.
People with 3.5 liters of blood on their floor. I don't think people realize how much blood he lost and there is just little spots where they found him... He was placed there after the fact 1000%
I can't see a taillight being broken out Like that by hitting a body. So many of the prosecutors Witnesses have lied. I can't say what exactly happened.I just don't buy the prosecutors timelime Or theory. On a more personal note... People that drink and drive and allow under Age drinking in their home... Well those are not my favorite people And I think it shows the real character of a person who does that.
🎯Agree, 100%. It's as if excessive drinking, partying w/their children, driving drunk, etc is simply normal for these people. Not to mention, these are police officers & their families, good grief! There is zero chance any of that would have been permitted, much less promoted, in our home while raising teenagers. We are nowhere near perfect parents, but we never tried to be "cool" w/our kids~ to be their "friends". We are their parents, first & foremost. Encouraging reckless behavior, modeling drunken stupidity is absolutely irresponsible ~ as well as truly scary. As a parent, I had plenty to worry over w/my kids, without putting them in danger myself~ on purpose?! Not happening. Yes~ it absolutely speaks to the character of those involved.Samantha in AZ
PAY ATTENTION Vinny!!! I believe the people in the house initially threw John out in the snow, and were planning on letting it look like a random plow hit John, then he froze to death! When Karen came in the am looking for him, they got a “better” idea! Jen specifically got a better idea, which was why she called her sister and left the line open for the 9 seconds. She wanted her sister to HEAR that they were all out front and had found John earlier than they planned!
I'm Australian and started following the case, thinking all the talk of a cover up was rubbish. But then, within the first couple of hours, I couldn't believe how crooked and inept the police department seemed. Karen should not be charged with murder. I feel compassion for John's family, but I can not believe they still don't have doubts about the case. A completely insane mess.
🤦♀️could you even imagine if the Jury was paid of I’d be getting the hell out of dodge.This is the real reason people don’t like the police there’s a lot of good but it’s truly sad to say there’s more corruption in police it’s frightening 😮
I listened to Vinnie talk about the case. He said if the case is dismissed, there will probably be no further investigation. The liars will never be charged.
Wow vinny, you are really into this trial and what is going on!! Even on a saturday night you are giving us info on this intriguing case!! I bet the prosecutors for the commenwealth of mass arent even going over as much as you are! They are probably off at dunkin donuts or starmarkets stuffing their faces! Hats off to you for your due diligence in helping us understand what are facts and what is false from all that are involved. Keep up the great work and thanks for info!!!
I love how they want us to believe she hit him and did damage to only a taillight… no one heard it and the light just EXPLODED with nuclear force all over the Albert yard… and nobody ever saw any pieces until the scene was appropriately “Proctored”.
I can't believe I missed the live just as you went off. Replay crew ❤ they should have never brought charges. This is crazy. Noone can say for sure one way or the other. Also, how was he suppose to get home anyway?
If you were at a party and wishing to go home, how would you do it? Personally I would opt for a taxi rather than have drunk friend drive me home, where do you stand on the subject?
Probably thought Higgins was going to give him a ride. Maybe he even ran into Higgins on his way in to the party, and Higgins said hey come with me and check out my snow plow. "Stand right there John." Still a great question though
The jurors have no prior knowledge of anything so it’ll be interesting to see where this goes. Hopefully they’ll do interviews after the fact so we can hear what their thought process was.
As I've been watching this, I see many reasons why this is a mess. From the opening statements, Lally was not impactful. The defense, on the other hand, was dropping bombs. One major revelation was about Proctor and the nude pictures, and the defense's initial claim that Karen was framed. From that moment, I have been looking for evidence to show she was framed. Now, 21 days in, I’m still waiting to hear from the lead investigatior, Trooper Proctor. If Proctor doesn't testify, that's it for me. He wasn’t there to address the mess of an investigation and his extremely unprofessional attitude towards Karen..Being in the UK, I constantly wonder how the people of MA feel about their hard-earned money being spent on this case and its investigation. My heart goes out to John's family. To add: Thus far, Karen has not been proven to have said, "I hit him, I hit him." McCabe ( the woman , cant remember her first name🤷🏾♀️ ) admitted to saying it 12 times and has made it very clear that she hates Karen. Her hatred is palpable. It's feeling very witch hunty 👀
Hey Vinnie, As for as DNA on the SUV goes, the end all is the photo of the stop and shop bag next to the taillight. Lank said it was entered into the evidence dept. Lies about the chain of custody.
The timestamp wasnt mirrored so the timestamp was added after it was altered/mirrored. For the prosecutor not to notice .... Lally is incompetent, complicit, or both.
How to trust, When the police is collecting evidence in solo cups, blowing snow , not labelling correcly thw evidence, finding evidence in the vecinity weeks after without measuring where the found it. When the leading investigator had conections with the involved and the local police had withdraw because of conflict but only for the interviews
I really enjoy watching Karen’s lawyers, they’re awesome. But Lally puts me to sleep and it’s hard to hear him. He seems to just respond objection‘ after every sentence from the defense. And the Judge Bev comes across as biased a lot.
They said there were no injuries on John from neck down to his feet. John's right arm scratches and gashes, hit with something above his eye . Hit hard in back of head.
No BROKEN BONES on John.. seems like tail light hitting a soft body so light that there is no broken bones. would not cause tail light to break! PLUS POLICE COVER UP !!
I completely agree with the argument he presents as to how the prosecution should probably have charged and brought the case, HOWEVER, there is something suspicious about the whole situation as far as the actions of the police that raise serious questions. I thought this not knowing the back-story about the investigation of Proctor. I actually knew nothing and hadn’t listened to anything but straight streaming of the trial. Immediately I did not trust many of the prosecution’s witnesses. As a former prosecutor who requested a dismissal of one of my cases immediately after my “star” witness testified because they lied (and I knew it without doubt), I would be furious with the filing deputy for filing the case in the first place or would not have tried it myself after having worked up the case and recognized the serious issues involved here. I firmly believe that a prosecutors duty is to get justice, not just “win” a case. Why was this case brought without further investigation? I don’t know anything about the back-ground investigation of the officers or the case in general, I just know that I’ve never seen such a questionable train-wreck brought to trial before. My belief is that there are too many glaring “errors” made during the police investigation for this just to be negligence on their behalf and the evidence doesn’t match up with their story. I realize that all the prosecution’s evidence hasn’t been presented yet, but it is either a strange way of prosecuting or there’s a reason that we have not heard from either the phone or medical forensics yet. It’s just strange. I’ve seen a lot of somewhat incompetent police investigations, but nothing like what happened here. Small, sleepy department though they may be, it’s hard for me to believe that any officer would ever handle evidence collection or the chain of custody like these officers all seemed to do. It’s just too sloppy for me to believe it wasn’t done with some kind of motive. IMO, in this case, the “extraneous” things are really important factors that necessarily SHOULD come out because they should have been taken into account before ever bringing this case to trial. If I were asked right now if I believe she did it, I’d say I had reasonable doubt.I don’t believe that they really had a plan to frame her from the get-go, it looks to me like he got into a fight with someone in that house and they dragged him outside waiting for him to die. How else to explain the 4am Google search about how long it would take for someone to die in the cold? There has been no expert presented to explain how that happened without it being done and then deleted. What about the marks on his arm? If they could prove it was not done by a dog why haven’t they presented anything to show it yet? Maybe they will, but letting the jury hear all this evidence that is so devastating to their case without changing up their witness order is just stupid. There’s so much doubt now that I don’t know if they can rehabilitate.
I have a confession. I barely knew anything about this case and only assumed the "conspiracy theory" was just another crazy far fetched theory similar to the political ones flying around. That was until I saw the evidence and testimony for myself. This is a tragedy of epic proportions. Not only did a man lose his life, but the killers are trying to take the life of his innocent girlfriend. It is also tragic for the community who has been victim to the corruption.
My husband works from home. We have 2 ginormous german shepherds The UPS/Amazon dude almost always shows up when I'm in the bathroom...hense the the bark fest. Hearing your dogs bark reminds me that we're all normal. 😂😂😂
31:28 Vinnie “my dogs bark every single time somebody walks by my house.” But a German Shepherd was sleeping in the front bedroom of 34 Fairview, directly above the body, and nobody in that house woke up?
I was today years old when I found out that Vinnie has his own channel...thanks to the Law and Lumber chat replay. I've never subbed so fast in my life. Excuse me while I binge all of your Karen Read videos 😂
Karen was suspicious from the beginning !Early morning when she saw the piece of taillights (!before going Albert's home)she tried to understand what could have happened!after getting alberts house she convinced herself that she could have hit him!when she come to her senses and saw everything she realized that he couldn't died by accident!!!there is no way her taillights smashed that fast and killing him!!!!Those investigators obscured the evidence to make it easier for her to be accused !it is my understanding 🤷♀️
It’s so sad that being distraught because your partner is beat to a pulp and frozen equates to suspicion… especially after investigating for a few months and find that all the acts of other party members seems totally reasonable compared to Karen. WTF?
That’s what I think. It happens. I’ve seen someone die in a bar fight. Two drunk guys one hit the other. The other passed out and hit the floor with nothing to break the fall. I think that’s what happened to John in the basement.
The murder charge is insane to me. Overcharged for sure. I’m not sure what the truth is, but if KR was at fault I believe it was completely accidental. She’d be at fault for drinking but murder? I don’t see it. If it was the other side, maybe a fight got out of hand or something accidental happened on that end. And now they’re trying to cover it up. I don’t know, but the fact that they charged her so ludicrously almost makes me feel like there’s something nefarious going on to cover up for the Fairview crew. It’s just way too suspicious.
Watching this feels like sitting with an old friend, a smart friend who finally made this case make sense?!? I’ve admired your legal mind for years. Thanks for doing this case…Im obsessed!
Read’s BAC was over the limit 8 hours after the incident. Not hard to believe that 8 hours earlier she was so drunk she hit O’Keefe without meaning to.
The forensic photos of 34 Fairview never emphasize the gate to the backyard, which is to the immediate right of the garage and driveway. Karen said she dropped John off at the foot of the drive and watched him walk up the driveway before pulling forward to park and wait for him to call her. We know she would have dropped him off before 12:23 am, when the F-150 with Ryan Nagle inside pulled in after Karen. Remember when the Alberts testified that the dog was let out in the backyard. Nicole Albert got home at 12:15 am, and said Brian Albert, who drove home with her, let the dog out when he got home. Brian said he used the restroom as soon as he got home. I believe it. He was drinking beer all night. He used the restroom after he got home at 12:15 am and before he went upstairs to get the dog. That sounds like the dog was let out at about 12:20 am. It sounds like John would have reached the end of the drive at about 12:22 am. I think John snuck in that gate to the backyard to take a leak before heading into the party. I think the dog mistook him for an intruder and grabbed his right arm, causing him to fall on the back of his head on the cement pool surround. Zillow shows an inground pool behind that gate. It's possible that John was able to get himself up for a moment before falling again on his face and hand. I think John was dead when the Alberts discovered him back there, hours later. And because of the liability associated with the dog, who did not have a known bite history at that time, they made the poor decision to stage it as a snowplow accident in the front yard. That effort may have been successful if Karen had not been histrionic that morning. She noticed her cracked taillight right before finding John's body and irrationally associated the two things. John's injuries are not from a vehicle. They don't look like a fight either. It is rare to injure both the front and back of your head. Those are dog bites on his arm. The top and bottom teeth marks get joined when the dog pulls. I doubt anyone wanted to hurt John except for the dog who thought he had invaded her yard.
Could not agree more that they overcharged her. Even if the Prosecutor is right that she hit him there no motive here. It’s a long way to murder just because the relationship was going South. Nothing I saw shows Karen out of control prior to his death. Her being highly upset when she sees her boyfriend lying in the snow is completely normal and actually proves her case.
Where did U see the pictures to form this opinion? I haven't seen them, do you know what day those were shown so I can go back and rewatch , or a link ? People saying it's not a car hit injuries and looks like being beaten up injuries, I'd like to be able to see what they've seen to form that opinion, so I can consider it for myself too. Thanks. 😊
His hands had bruises as if he had been in fist fight. So much for getting hit by the car. Not sure how his hands got all bruised up by the tail light yet?
Karen at the house when she spotted John was trying to figure out how and why he was on the ground and tried to figure out in her head out loud what had happened and started asking questions if she could have hit him when she went to leave and didn't know that. She wasn't confessing to a crime. Everyone was drinking that night and you could say they all had way to much to drink. If Jen was a friend? why didn't she sit Karen down and ask what she did that night when everyone was wondering why she and John never went into the house vs Telling others that Karen said she hit John without the full context?
She was a jealous hot head drunk who cared for the kids, did financial trusts for them, and then was disrespected by him and told he thought relationship was toxic. He meant she was toxic and crazy (if you believe Laura Sullivan). Of course its a motive. This is a Betty Broderick case . Karen was desperate to keep him and John was walking on egg shells trying to break up with her in a way she would not go nuts…welp, he did not succeed. Don’t forget she called him her husband to all the EMTs who took her to hospital….weird
Well for me it was a Sunday night special because I watched the replay and I totally enjoyed it! Thanks for your dedication and candor with every broadcast you do and as always your coverage of this case is awesome. Gave you a sub so I don’t miss you next time. You are the best. Thanks for being here for all of us ⚖️
Two officers who destroyed evidence on their cell phones. That's suspicious right out of the gate.
This case is like "trying to make sense out of nonsense".
Corrupt Copa are a mute point seeing Karen already confessed
I think this case stinks no matter how you look at it.
@@davidking6986sorry we don’t trust the testimony of people that destroyed phones and SIM cards and want us to believe in random butt dials.
It's sad that John will probably never get justice, we won't know what actually happened, because of the absolute circus of an investigation.
The manner of death in this case was undetermined. Why would you charge a hit and run, let alone second-degree homicide, when the manner of death is undetermined? Nobody is going to believe those injuries are from a vehicle.
@Physics4290
Hypothermia v. Vehicular Homicide.
@@kittymartin2982he had a brain bleed. And two black eyes. Hypothermia didn’t cause that. There was no DNA or tissue under Karen’s car. He died in that house.
I mean if the manner of death is undetermined , how can you even really charge someone for murdering them then, kinda doesn't make sense, if U don't know the cause of death then how can U possibly know it's murder. Ya know.
@@bettywillbrowse good point ‼️
The evidence prooved the DNA was on the suv Karen was driving . The Tailight was busted and evidence found. Evidence Karen HIT him and had motive is undeniable. Karen said herself she hit him. Karen went right to the body. Karen was unfaithful with Higgins and mentioned hiw she hated John for cheating as well as despising John's Kids. Karen was reported as a jealous lady in Aruba as testified by witnesse. Karen told Jen M she had a terrible Fight with John that night. If that's not enough evidence what is FFS??
My heart goes out to those children who the victim was raising. First their parents die then their uncle John takes them to raise and now he's killed.
💔😢
Dont forget they had Karen with them for 2 years during Covid Times. They lost her too.
@@Ieezecathis is about John not Karen. The kids don't care for her. She didn't care for them either. Instead of staying and comforting them after she killed their uncle she left and ran to her parents house. That speaks volumes
@@AlittlebitofMari she lost her boyfriend of many years and saw him dead on the house of a person she knew and she did not knew how he died or what happened, its logical her reaction was like that.
LEARN the whole story. Those kids loved Karen until JM hijacked JO"s family. The woman just had the most horrible experience of her life. She loved them. Stop with the hate bombs. Jen started telling the family she hit him and admitted it to her b4 they were even home from the hospital. Her bail had a no contact order. Jen broke that family apart & and continues to this day.
As a juror, do you think they are wondering why the lead investigator and medical examiner haven't testified. Why all the secondary people instead of primary? Seems this plays into the defense narrative.
Because you can only ever be called to testify for either the defence or prosecution. Those people may be called for the defence.
@@Michelle-bl7uo the Prosecution has to call the Medical Examiner to explain John’s injuries, no one else is qualified. Typically the Prosecution doesn’t wait 7 weeks because it’s important info.
Maybe, if they know how trials work usually.... I probably wouldn't wonder this if it were me coz I'd probably just be assuming they know who is important to testify not 🤷 Coz I'm a bit naive & stupid like that sometimes In some scenarios and I reckon this is one of them I'd be stupid in 🤷🤪
And those who are testifying are avoiding a straight answer. It seems the judge is leaning towards the cw per papa because she isn’t used to the defense coming on with their own evidence t change the narrative. If I were a juror I wouldn’t believe the cw - def reasonable doubt!
@@bettywillbrowseit’s not stupid :) there’s no shame in not knowing. That’s why the prosecution must be the ones to give the jurors what they need, and the judge must instruct the jurors on how to apply the law.
You are not stupid :) you’re smarter than anyone who wouldn’t admit they don’t know!
Lally has spent the last 6 weeks defending the mcalberts instead of prosecuting Karen. Which is why there is so much reasonable doubt in this case.
Yeah does he live in Canton????
Right, more typos. Interesting
No one talks about the drinking and driving these people do ! Police officers too !
That’s per se it’s enough reason for all to get fired.
And driving police vehicles and going to the station to move vehicles around and do paperwork. All while he was drunk. Yet it's a normal day for them
Who cares about drinking and driving? They are all adults. Don’t Drive Drunk is a message for high school students.
They should all be fired for this alone.
@@JustinTyme33so adults should be allowed to drink and drive putting others at risk while they're under the influence on the road? Really?
You'd change your mind quick if someone you cared about/ loved had their life stolen from them because some entitled a**hat decided to drink to excess & then drive! I'm sorry you're comment is so uninformed & ignorant! The message of don't drink & drive doesn't just pertain to teens -smh
Brian A. has dirt on every powerful person in a 50-mile radius because he helped them do crimes, so all he has to say to get some help from them is, "if I go down, you're going down with me." Brian H. helped bring John out through the garage, and put him in the back of a vehicle (allegedly). They drove to the far side of the yard & placed John's body near the road, because the plan was to say he must've been hit by a snow plow.
Then, Karen told Jen that she was so frantic, she cracked her tail light backing into John's car at 5am as she left home that morning. Jen secretly called her sister from the car at 6:04am & whispered, "Karen cracked her tail light! I told her she could've hit John with her car!" Brian said that was a much better story to go with (allegedly). Canton PD took everything he told them at face value.
They didn’t take 1 photo of John's body at the scene. They should have. That's standard procedure in every police department in the world. So is measuring (or drawing a chalk outkine) where the body was, documenting everything, including all interviews, in reports, and 20 other basic aspects of police work that Canton PD opted out of on 1/29/22.
3 quarts of John's blood were lost according to the ME, but were never located. Only a few separate small spots of blood were around him. The 3 quarts were in Brian Albert's basement (allegedly), where nobody looked. That's why he ripped the floor out & replaced it afterward.
The trial has presented objective proof of misconduct & nefarious behavior on the part of the Alberts, the McCabes, and all involved law enforcement officers.
I just wrote a similar comment!! (Yours is more specific!) the fight wasn’t planned.. they were going to just let John be found, and let the pd assume it was a plow! When Karen came out looking for John, and may have even mentioned that she was angry with him the night before.. I 1000% agree that’s why Jen called her sister, and claimed she didn’t answer the phone! She needed to let her in on her newest plan! Holy crap! There’s no doubt in my mind that they did it! Also, I think Higgins will eventually turn on them if he ends up losing his career, home, etc.. he’s not family, and he def seemed the most upset and scared to death on the stand!!
*This makes perfect sense*
Well said ! Bravo.. I hope the Real culprits come to light 🇺🇸♥️🕊💪🇺🇸
SLAM DUNK!!!!
That’s how so many ppl are in on the conspiracy plus they’ve had 2 + years to get their stories straight
the Karen Reed case is so intriguing. I do not trust the local or State police, this is crazy, I hope the defense, gets the time they need. If the trial stopped today, their is so much reasonable doubt.
❤
Same. I am a huge supporter of law enforcement; my father was in the bleu family and I married into the TBL family.
It wasn’t until Kyle Rittenhouse that I saw with my own eyes how corrupt and incompetent some (few, relatively) law enforcement can be. I was convinced that there were so many levels of oversight that I found it hard to believe that there were as many (as I do now) innocent individuals locked away, some condemned to death.
By default, I believe in the men in women in blue but I have an open mind.
THIS case is beyond suss. I trying believe there are very few departments that still run on the “good ol’ boys” and nepotistic system. It’s no secret that the New England departments have always and still live by the same standards they have always been known for.
With as many LEOs I have been friends with and/or spent any amount of time having conversation with, most departments have distanced themselves from even the appearance of inappropriate conduct/behavior.
They will. It would violate Karen's rights if they didn't get enough time and it would guarantee an appeal. Karen's right to freedom, and taking that freedom away is more important than anything the prosecution could say, so they will get what they need, even if it seems like the judge is kinda on the common wealth's side.
The prosecution has already lost this case. I’m sure the jurors want to go home!
With everyone being so drunk, they probably don’t even remember what happened.
Karen for sure !
Only one person ran over someone while they were drunk
Why don't we know anything else about this town and it's criminal activity?That town isn't picketing for the heck of it.
Seems like the cops in that town drink and drive as much as the general public!! The defence should be questioning how much they had to drink but of course they would just lie about it anyways! This whole case should have never even gone this far!! So much reasonable doubt!!!
@@lauravallejos719
Except Officer John O'Keefe's injuries are not consistent with being hit by a motor vehicle.
I love that you put up the picture of Officer John O’Keefe! Thank you for showing respect due to him.
The problem is there’s so much BS in this case, a absolute 💩 investigation, the detectives seizing property and goi g through it before having warrants, the videoed being purported flipped and the prosecution, and the weirdo detective, not stating this fact. But purposely stating they never touched the passenger side light. When they clearly were back by the passenger side doing something. But they wanted everyone to believe we were looking at the passenger side.
Phones being thrown away, destroyed the day before an order was sent out to preserve their phones. They were obviously tipped off. But dials, google searches, “hos long to die in cold”…all around 2AM.
I came into this trial not knowing anything and I come from a law enforcement family, so I thought what little I knew was most likely BS…. But I’m sorry, I dont believe anything the Prosecution, detectives, Troopers, DA, witnesses, says! Not one word. I feel sorry for Officer John O'Keefe, his family, Karen, and those children. Because of the crap job done in the investigation by these incompetent Troopers John will never get justice. And maybe that was the plan. They should be charged for this. It’s absolutely sickening
I agree with EVERYTHING you stated. You are not alone in your thinking.
The solo cups used to collect evidence....🤦♀️it is hard to believe this was a legitimate investigation.
Every single word - spot on!
I also came in blind and leaned towards the State at 1st. Didn't last long! Solo cups and a leaf blower for collecting such important evidence, that of a fallen comrade is such a disgrace!
💯 agree with you and thank you for saying OFFICER John o'keefe.
💯
Sad that this case is forgetting that John lost his life.
The theatrics from the defense are saddening
You're absolutely right. When I watch this trial I honestly don't even think that im watching a trial about a man that was murdered. I'm too busy saying to my self "why is this witness so unbelievable and what do they have to hide"? The prosecutions witnesses seem shady as hell ands that's where my focus is while I watch this trial. And John was a good man...
@@jeannehood1222theatrics?
@jeannehood1222 Theatrics ..or Truths.
@jeannehood1222 what theatrics? All the witnesses from the prosecution have got ridden of their phones, dog, home, can't get their stories right. Prosecution hasn't showed how much she had to drink, video was misrepresented, evidence tainted because of solo cups, Proctor name in ever thing because he didn't use the CSS to collect evidence. What evidence has Prosecution shown? Even the little clip he played is not a confession. She hit something but I'm not sure it was John. Karen hit John and no one saw or heard anything at all?
There will never be justice for John O'Keefe and his family!
Right 👍😢
No because the Albert house was not searched or even glased at
Yes because this country is filled with wanna be Americans that blindly “back the blue” . This cucked American society has created this monster! WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!
OH YOURE A FORMER PROSECUTOR? IN OTHER WORDS YOURE FAMILIAR WITH HOW CORRUPT IT IS BECAUSE YOU HAVE ENGAGED IN THESE SAME CRIMES AND COVER UPS😂😂😂😂
I disagree! I think someone will turn on the rest, and that someone will have some evidence..
I was really trying to hang onto the open mind concept, putting aside the cover up theory, the set up of Karen Read theory, and just look at the facts that the prosecutor was putting forward. However I was becoming frustrated with the inconsistencies by all these witnesses, and just had to wonder why this case was charged, I'm looking for the proof that clearly must be there. Sadly, after the video debacle at the garage, I just can't let it go anymore. I don't know what happened to John O'Keefe, but the behavior of all his friends, is truly beyond acceptable., and so many of them are in law enforcement, in some capacity, and should know better. Too dang much!!
How you can see the case as not a complete disaster is bizarre given the amount of police corruption, incestuous connectios, outright lying, destroyed phones, deleted evidence and buttduals! Ridiculous!
Totally agree. It's like, are you really following this case then?
It’s cause he’s an actor. He’s playing the part of an impartial onlooker. He’s not giving his truly honest opinion of what he is seeing, like all lawyers it’s an act.
I agree with him. People are swayed by different things. If this is being done right, they jury right now doesn't have the public speculation and ability to rewatch and revisit testimony and evidence to catch things they didn't the first go round. They may not be seeing the significance of one thing or another. And we have all seen trials where people were convicted despite there being an abundance of reasonable doubt.
Incestuous connectios where did that come from
Destroyed phones. Deleted evidence which can be retrieved. Far from over
Jen McCabe is angry but she has changed her story so much that she looks like a liar, Shady to me
@@user-ji5gz5fu3gBut Jen McCabe changed her story under oath. KR has not.
@@user-ji5gz5fu3ghow did. She change her story.
I don't really know if she did change her side after the shock wore off
Karen Read is known to have angry rage jealousy moments over John .please everyone watch the entire trial and listen to the witnesses and damming text messages please
Please everyone pay no attention to all the dim McAlbert familiars and all the perjurous temtimony.
Technology, in sickening detail, exposes the poorly performed frame job on KR.
Justice is coming for JJ, in FBI windbreakers
I love listening to Vinny’s discussion on cases. I’ve been watching him on court tv from 2006 😊
Me too! ❤me some Vinnie on a Saturday night lol
susan..i wanna get on
Well, this is the first time I’ve listened to Vinnie’s Podcast. He just outlined how to successfully prosecute a case when you want to frame someone. He would file lesser charges so there wouldn’t be complications like lots of witness testimony and to many things that needed to be proven. He’s trying to give Lolly a quick seminar in how to frame someone more successful. Nice going Vinnie. It says a lot about you if that’s your first reaction to deeply criminal offenses by a city police department, state police agency , a DEA agent and the Commonwealth’s office of the District Attorney. WTF😮
Me too I love his passion. I’m from Philly and I’m Italian. To me Vinny is so likable.
@@CB-zf5wthe’s so biased! Always sides with the prosecution! Such a disgrace
This case continues to blow my mind. I honestly have no idea what really happened, I feel for the jury trying to do the right thing with this mess. Great job as always Vinnie, youre the best 👌
I can't help but wonder if they feel safe. I presume they live in that basic area.
It’s clear that she did it? In my mind, that’s the LEAST clear thing so far. This case is just AWFUL and exposes every evil in our justice system and police department that people worry about.
So we don’t want competent defense attorneys because they make things hard on the prosecution?? What an awful take on this case.
Why would a prosecutor try to prove Karen Read had nine drinks by having an officer narrate what he believes he sees in front of her on a camera that is located behind her? There was a camera behind that bar. Why didn't they use that footage so we could see what she was actually being served, and why can't we see the actual receipt with the drinks she paid for?
And why prove she was drunk if you also need to prove intent?? They say it was deliberately done, by a barely functional drunk?? I think they should have picked one or the other.
@@brynb245 legit!!!! Proving she was shitfaced drunk only proves that she's much much less capable of making a premeditated decision to kill him by hitting him with her car and pretending not to see... The drunk thing only potentially could prove involuntary manslaughter, if anything.... Imo.
Because Proctor tried to intimidate the bartender into saying Karen was drunk, none of it was water, etc. But said bartender called the FBI...
OMG
They need to be focusing on recreating the accident and explaining John’s injuries not what Karen had to drink. She’s not going to prison over a tail light .
This case should never have gone to trial.
It seems like the prosecution feels the same way right now lol
The original plan was to suggest John was hit by a snow plow. Then, Karen mentioned later that she cracked her tail light at 5am & Jen suggested perhaps she could have hit him.
John O’Keefe has been forgotten here ,,, who killed him ,,, he will never get justice or his family
Very sad
Where is the autopsy report ? So many missing parts
Yes! Exactly this! They're all townies and they couldn't blame the plow guy!
Actually the first was a physical altercation
I feel like every witness the Prosecution put on was for the defense! Not for them. I’ve never seen such lack of enthusiasm in a prosecutor ever.
I know right!!?!
Exactly! It seems like they are just going through the motions…political pressure to prosecute even though they don’t really believe in their case…it happens!
That's precisely how it seems.
Sometimes I wonder if Lally actually is on Karen's side.
I feel like this is a soap opera!
If she did it, where is all the blood? Why all the butt dials? Why google search?
Agree with you.. sorry but not sorry Vinnie this theory is no working here, she do not hurt him. And young people take pictures like crazy. Like every time they breath 😅 where are all of that pictures.? Ahh they deleted it, no intentional of course. Just things happen. SHAME IN THIS PEOPLE
Why is there blood on his shoes? If he is hit and laid out on the yard on his back, why are his shoes covered in blood? Nothing in this case makes sense
Why is there blood on his shoes? If he is hit and laid out on the yard on his back, why are his shoes covered in blood? Nothing in this case makes sense
@@AParallelRealityI also wonder about the blood on his shirt. Some of the spots look like drips and if he was laying down, that would be impossible.
@@AParallelRealitywhere did you see pictures of blood on his shoes? I saw pictures of his sneaker they found in the snow, no blood
To answer the question, bc those witnesses should be the ones on trial, along with the DA, NOT Karen Read.
I totally agree with you!
You guys are totally delusional
💯
Absolutely!
So true I agree
I can't get past the clothes. The staining on the front of OJOK clothing shows he was upright when injured and stayed upright for a bit, because gravity. Then the puncture (tear drp shaped holes) damage to his right sleeve. That's not blunt force abrasions!! There are so many other things that don't fit in this, that I have reasonable doubt. But the laws of gravity can't be overcome by a "trust me bro" prosecution.
It's the multiple hematomas for me. John was 6'2 I don't see how his injuries match up to being hit with a car.
Vinnie, when you make excuses for bullies, they remain bullies.
I like this. I will be using it, thank you ..
I just…I don’t know, Vinnie. It is easier for me to believe a fight broke out over Higgins texts to Karen, and it went too far. I don’t think they MEANT to kill him. Because let’s just be logical here….he was NOT HIT by that car. I have tried and tried over and over to come up with some scenario that has THOSE injuries with THAT car. I cant
The FBI investigating the investigators agrees with you... and hired their own professional crime scene reconstructionists who of course also had the autopsy photos. They concluded that John was not hit by a car, and a car did not hit John. The defense will be presenting that if Lally ever shuts up so the defense can finally present their case.
I think it was over the kiss with Higgins.
I believe that too. I also think why John had those scratches on his arm is because the Albert's dog jumped up at bit John so they "rehomed" her
Yup and they all selfishly thought about their own careers instead of attempting to help him.
They all had enough training to stop the head lac bleeding and call for help. Instead they destroyed many lives and took a great man away from those that loved him. My heart breaks for the niece and nephew the most.
Why would John O’Keefe fight Higgins over Karen? He wanted to break up with her anyway.
The real elephant in the room is if Vinnie was a DA and this case was dropped on his desk would he smell something afoul and still prosecute or investigate the investigation?
Thank you for the time you spend with us x
Jen went in the Albert house and told them Karen thinks she hit him and then the framing began... otherwise they would have blamed the snow plow driver
But Jen wouldn't have heard that from Karen at that point, yet at all.
@@KristieMAC1yes she had jm went into the house after John was found and after kr said did I hit him
Exactly this.
@@KristieMAC1Jen went busting into their bedroom and no dog attacked her, or the cop sleeping inside the bedroom was not on alert when a stranger busts through your door?? BS they knew everything on the lawn before Jen came through the door…Brian told everyone to stay away from the scene, how could a family stay inside their house instead of go out to see what happened on the lawn?? Bizarre 😮
Exactly
First, I want to say I’ve been watching you since I was a teen! I’m 44 now. My mom used to watch a ton of Court TV. With that said, I can see some bias on your part. Incoming long post. I wish I could have a personal conversation with you about this case.
1:08:53 Vinnie. Be reasonable. I think they were counting on people thinking JOK was hit by a plow. Karen was frantic and stated “Could I have hit him?”I believe that’s when they decided to throw her under the bus.
There’s a channel on UA-cam where the creator is a police dog trainer. It’s got millions of followers. I saw a lawyer interview him. He’s been doing it for many years. Remember, Chloe was a failed police dog. The trainer showed the arm that they wear when they’re training the dogs. The bite marks look _exactly_ like the wounds on JOK’s arm. He also explained how a German Shepherd bites things. They can bite just with their top teeth and bottom. The trainer said the wounds on JOK’s arms were definitely dog bites.
If there was a fight in the Albert’s basement(where I believe the wound on the back of John’s head was made by hitting him with a weight), maybe Chloe got upset and started biting John. Maybe she was given the same order she learned in police dog training to attack perpetrators, and that’s where the wounds on John’s arm came from.
The prosecution theory that she backed up at 25 mph in 60 feet is impossible. Go out to a large empty parking lot and try and do it yourself. I tried it. You get out of control at 15 mph. Remember, the street is curved in front of the Albert’s house *_and_* it was snowing. In 60 feet, JOK would have had PLENTY of time to step out of the way. *_If_* it was even possible to get up to that speed in reverse, you’d flip an SUV.
When Karen spoke about Colin and Higgins beating up JOK, and made her comment about everyone being in on the same joke, she was being sarcastic. You can’t hear the sarcasm in her voice? I heard it instantly. When she made the comment about JOK’s face being pulverized and her tail light being cracked, she was pointing out how ridiculous the accusation was because he didn’t have any other injuries besides the injuries on his face and his arm. As in, how could John’s face be as injured as it was if only her tail light was cracked. When Lally characterized the statement as an admission of guilt, he wasn’t being honest with the jury. The jury will hear the sarcasm in Karen’s voice.
I was an EMT for years. You’d see WAY more injuries to JOK if he was hit at that speed and dragged as the prosecution says. He’d have broken bones all over his body. It’s ridiculous. The ME report says JOK lost 3 pints of blood. It also says JOK’s manner of death is undetermined. So where was the blood? They only found a small amount of blood there. It’d be all over the snow!!
We also saw the video where Jen and Kerry get to John’s house to drop off Karen’s car, Karen never went to the back of the car to show them anything.
They also did provide a motive for the Alberts to harm John. The texts between Higgins and Karen. What if drunk JOK said something about it, BA and BH say let’s go down to the basement and talk about it, and the fight occurred. If it got out of hand, that’s where the conspiracy would start. Everyone at the house would be implicated. BA may have told everyone to go along with the story because they’d go down with him. Why was the Ford Edge supposedly right in front of the flag pole right where JOK was found? Maybe it was to cover up them placing John’s body where he was found? The police in the family and BH would have a lot to lose if a fight did get out of hand.
Also, why did Proctor hold onto evidence in his trunk for so long? No chain of custody for some evidence. How could they keep adding pieces of tail light when the scene wasn’t secure?? How could unknown glass stay on Karen’s bumper while she drove to the McCabe’s house? And a hair? Not buying what the prosecution is selling. It’s an insult to our intelligence.
The “what if anything” comments were because Lally has said it well over a thousand times in this case. There’s a lawyer on UA-cam who has been counting them.
Another thing, the FBI hired a public accident reconstruction firm and had three experts look at the case. All three came back and said there was no way Karen could have done this. This information was passed to the defense, in fairness to Karen. These experts are on the witness list. Alan will call them all. Former Manhattan prosecutor Mark Bederow has talked about this when he’s been a guest on different podcasts. That’s why the defense has said to wait for their turn. Because they know they have that in their pocket. Likely, these are some of the experts Lally wants to keep out. We also know the FBI is investigating this case for corruption. What else would they be investigating besides Higgins breaking the law with using the government’s resources for personal gains and why it was done.
Also, why would Higgins take his phone to his friend who specializes in forensic analysis of electronics and only take screenshots of certain conversations knowing he was about to get an order for his phone?? Then, he takes his phone and SIM card and destroys them, then takes them to a military base to throw them in separate trash cans! You don’t find that suspicious?
Also, arguing over Cellebrite data is ridiculous. It’s the gold standard. You likely know that. So BA and BH butt dial each other and a ghost answers the phone when they say they didn’t answer the phone?? The data says they did. It also says JM’s search of hos long to die in cold was at 2:36am. It was one of the things she deleted along with twenty calls and texts. Is that suspicious to you? She could have been trying to cover up the search deletion by searching again at 5:30am, when Karen came around frantic, with the same spelling error and the other search hos long ti die in cikd.
Sorry for the long post. I just had a lot to say about this livestream. There’s so much suspicious behavior by the McAlberts that I absolutely could believe a conspiracy is happening here. The sloppy investigation doesn’t help. Their nasty and sarcastic tone, plus the way they distanced themselves from JOK by calling him “the guy” in the group text and everything but JOK while testifying, besides Kerry. I could go on and on pointing out all the shenanigans, but the post would be even longer.
PS Even though I’m questioning some of your beliefs and statements about this case, I still think you’re awesome! 😎 🕺🏼
THE CASE IS OVER !!!! ADMIT IT !!!!
I feel like Jen McCabe could of put the idea of Karen hitting John with her car into Karen's head while she was driving her the next morning. I think Karen was so distraught that she would have been in a highly suggestable state.
All the DA has proved is if you live in Canton you need to MOVE!
Good one
right? If I ever get pulled over in Canton I am giving the police officer a breathalyzer test too!
So much smoke and mirrors !
Phones. Or rather lack of phones.
Butt dials.
Calls - Hos long to die in the snow @ 2.37am.
Evidence gathering - over a period of days in an insecure crime scene. Albert’s house completely swerved.
The Sally port and the prosecutors sly sneaky footage he thought no one would catch on to !
I’m convinced Karen is innocent !
AMEN
JOK was a fellow cop , a brother , a close friend yet he was treated like a homeless bum or worse.
Vinnie...your dogs are barking, you hear them...someone walking by. CHLOE. No barking when half the town is in her front yard/ sirens blaring. No barking when McJen barges in tge bedroom. Not buying it...ty for making the point w your dog.
Hey Vinnie, thank you! Appreciate your expertise, clarity and insight. You’re a Gem💎
Where have you seen detectives not going to a crime scene on day 1???
agreed
They didn’t even put up crime scene tape.
Not just a crime scene , a scene where their brother in Arms was killed. They went all the way to NY for the funeral of an officer they never knew but they didn't go to their John's , close friend's and fellow cop's funeral
It’s absolutely ridiculous my aunt was murdered yrs ago they would not let anyone in the home they stop you from entering the home so you can’t contaminate the crime scene
I don't think they planned on framing Karen until she ASKED did I hit him, I think that's when Jen ran in the house and said Karen thinks she could have hit him and mentioned the taillight.
I cannot see enough damage on the car to account for such severe injuries on John.
She backed into John's car. That's on video. Minor damage.
Here is the only theory besides an accident that could make sense to me. Based on GPS John got to BAs house around 1224. His Apple Watch says at that time 80 steps begin ( I did some measurements using Google Earth and it is 80 ft from the street to BAs door then back to flagpole). Then his GPS coordinates place him at the flagpole and at 1231 36 steps begin. It is exactly 36 feet from the flagpole back to the house.
I think John drops his phone on his way to the door and he starts walking back to look for it.
(I think Karen had already pulled off at this point because a voicemail she left at 1241 you can hear John’s garage door opening and it takes about 7 mins from BAs to John’s house, it was snowing so it could of taken 2-3 extra mins longer.) then he can’t find it so he goes inside to get someone to call his phone and there is a 10 mins where something bad could of happened, they can’t find his phone which is the first thing they would look
For being that they are cops so Jen starts the “butt dials” while she’s texts in between the butt dials aka her outside calling and texting his phone over and over again to find the location & that’s where they decide to place his body.
The only reason I think why maybe it would be so Jen important to Jen is if something did happen with Colin and Allie McCabe picked him up, if he was even there then.
Hit by a vehicle and not 1 broken bone and lands on his back laid out? That alone is unbelievable! Add all these unbelievable butt dials and answering butt dials with a butt answer. Missing videos, missing phones, deleted calls, I don’t recalls and the shoddiest of all investigations.
I don't know much at all about this case, but the little tiny bit I do know, I thought these guys had been drinking, got into a fight, they realize later he's dead, and they try to cover up.
Brian was drunk and probably got in fight with john and accidently killed him is what i believe
I think it was Brian as well and I don’t believe it was intentional at all. He also seems to have the most “Shady” behavior to me. Incidentally he left the earliest!
@@lisajeter9511Higgins or Albert?
So does everyone else
Brian... they said it twice
As someone from this area, I can tell you we don’t suffer fools. We don’t like to be tricked. The prosecution will not play well.
If I were on that jury I would not feel safe. What is the feeling in the community in terms of their safety?
@@MzWriteNow that's actually an interesting point. If the jury decides for Karen Read, how safe will they feel? Will they want to live in that community for the rest of their lives, knowing that any time they need to call 911 one of *these* guys might show up? Or NOT? Scary
Ignoring all of the many problems w/ this case (the elephant in the room, so to speak), where is the evidence that Karen Read hit Officer John O'Keefe? Where is it? Waiting.
Exactly! Same here. All we need to know is:
Was Karen behind the wheel?
Was John in proximity?
Had she been drinking?
Did she has a compelling motive to hit him (if she was that upset) rather than just leave him? (Was she violent in previous breakups?)
Then they need to show compelling evidence that John was hit by a car and that Karen's car did it.
Some vague claims of a confession, told by serial liars? Good enough for some people, I guess 😂
The inverted video changed everything for me. If I were a juror I would be swayed by that and the little hair on the tail light traveling 60 miles unmoved 🤦🏻♀️
QQQ: Vinnie, why cant you see that the key piece of evidence is...WHAT THE REAR TAIL LIGHT LOOKED LIKE BEFORE LAW ENFORCEMENT TOOK THE CAR???? That is key because this proves whether and what she hit and whether there were any pieced to plant. COME ON VINNIE. Open your ears.
I agree. The ring cam video is missing. The video from the library is missing. Both would prove her light was in tact when she drove home. I don’t believe in coincidences.
It's not Vinnie's job to pick a side and go full gung ho. Someone needs to be objective and he is.
There is no evidence of what her tail light looked like…because all the inept law enforcement agencies failed to photograph it before they took custody of it. Bukhenik & Johns niece/nephew cleared up the missing Ring footage…any Ring data was sent to Proctor.
@@Ieezeca doesn't sound objective to me.
I think you misunderstand the defense's position. They are not saying someone premeditated an attack on John as you infer (you said "who would want to take him away from those kids?). Their argument is there was a fight in the heat of the moment with a lot of alcohol involved. I really don't find that hard to believe at all.
Yeah but then I add a conspiracy coverup with dozens of people involved.
Replay! Thanks Vinnie you are the best!
Vinnie Amazing Brain--niac!!
Who 'replaces' a basement floor in a house before selling it? To increase the property value ? LMAO
And sold for 50k under market value
People with 3.5 liters of blood on their floor. I don't think people realize how much blood he lost and there is just little spots where they found him... He was placed there after the fact 1000%
I can't see a taillight being broken out Like that by hitting a body. So many of the prosecutors Witnesses have lied. I can't say what exactly happened.I just don't buy the prosecutors timelime Or theory.
On a more personal note... People that drink and drive and allow under Age drinking in their home... Well those are not my favorite people And I think it shows the real character of a person who does that.
🎯Agree, 100%. It's as if excessive drinking, partying w/their children, driving drunk, etc is simply normal for these people. Not to mention, these are police officers & their families, good grief! There is zero chance any of that would have been permitted, much less promoted, in our home while raising teenagers. We are nowhere near perfect parents, but we never tried to be "cool" w/our kids~ to be their "friends". We are their parents, first & foremost. Encouraging reckless behavior, modeling drunken stupidity is absolutely irresponsible ~ as well as truly scary. As a parent, I had plenty to worry over w/my kids, without putting them in danger myself~ on purpose?! Not happening. Yes~ it absolutely speaks to the character of those involved.Samantha in AZ
@@RV-there-Yetthey should do a recreation to see if a body would break a tail light !
and no flesh or hair stuck on the jagged edges of the tail light pieces?
Karen is being framed .
PAY ATTENTION Vinny!!! I believe the people in the house initially threw John out in the snow, and were planning on letting it look like a random plow hit John, then he froze to death! When Karen came in the am looking for him, they got a “better” idea! Jen specifically got a better idea, which was why she called her sister and left the line open for the 9 seconds. She wanted her sister to HEAR that they were all out front and had found John earlier than they planned!
Yes!!! I have been saying this same thing! I just commented this again in this comment section. There is no way JO was hit by a car.
I have been watching Court tv for a long time.Your coverage is second to none,I really enjoy it.
I pray the jurors weren't paid off.
I'm Australian and started following the case, thinking all the talk of a cover up was rubbish. But then, within the first couple of hours, I couldn't believe how crooked and inept the police department seemed. Karen should not be charged with murder.
I feel compassion for John's family, but I can not believe they still don't have doubts about the case. A completely insane mess.
🤦♀️could you even imagine if the Jury was paid of I’d be getting the hell out of dodge.This is the real reason people don’t like the police there’s a lot of good but it’s truly sad to say there’s more corruption in police it’s frightening 😮
The FBI will be there if that hapens...
I listened to Vinnie talk about the case. He said if the case is dismissed, there will probably be no further investigation. The liars will never be charged.
@@DorothyKeoseian I have thought of that and also wonder about their safety, or perception of safety right now.
Karen and her attorney were told that colin and Brian beat John and he started convulsing and vomiting. And they left him outside
Who told them? I feel I’ve heard this but why isn’t this witness coming forward?
There would've been evidence of gastric pulp in throat.
@@kittymartin2982there was vomit in the shirt
@@kittymartin2982the emt said there was blood and vomit on his sweater
@@karlybeech8094did the right thing, he & family were threatened.
Wow vinny, you are really into this trial and what is going on!! Even on a saturday night you are giving us info on this intriguing case!! I bet the prosecutors for the commenwealth of mass arent even going over as much as you are! They are probably off at dunkin donuts or starmarkets stuffing their faces! Hats off to you for your due diligence in helping us understand what are facts and what is false from all that are involved. Keep up the great work and thanks for info!!!
Not live. From Boston. I am going to take my, very important time, and head down to the court house. I find it fascinating
Can you please comment about your observation of the jurors reactions?
Hey Vinny, been watching you since the earliest court TV days. I have always enjoyed your prospective. Thanks
*perspective
I love how they want us to believe she hit him and did damage to only a taillight… no one heard it and the light just EXPLODED with nuclear force all over the Albert yard… and nobody ever saw any pieces until the scene was appropriately “Proctored”.
I can't believe I missed the live just as you went off. Replay crew ❤ they should have never brought charges. This is crazy. Noone can say for sure one way or the other.
Also, how was he suppose to get home anyway?
If you were at a party and wishing to go home, how would you do it? Personally I would opt for a taxi rather than have drunk friend drive me home, where do you stand on the subject?
uber Lyft ride home like others got.
Probably thought Higgins was going to give him a ride. Maybe he even ran into Higgins on his way in to the party, and Higgins said hey come with me and check out my snow plow. "Stand right there John."
Still a great question though
The jurors have no prior knowledge of anything so it’ll be interesting to see where this goes. Hopefully they’ll do interviews after the fact so we can hear what their thought process was.
Glad Vinnie isn’t the prosecutor because he would actually put on a better case with an innocent woman on trial
I think the prosecution is losing on purpose
As I've been watching this, I see many reasons why this is a mess. From the opening statements, Lally was not impactful. The defense, on the other hand, was dropping bombs. One major revelation was about Proctor and the nude pictures, and the defense's initial claim that Karen was framed. From that moment, I have been looking for evidence to show she was framed. Now, 21 days in, I’m still waiting to hear from the lead investigatior, Trooper Proctor. If Proctor doesn't testify, that's it for me. He wasn’t there to address the mess of an investigation and his extremely unprofessional attitude towards Karen..Being in the UK, I constantly wonder how the people of MA feel about their hard-earned money being spent on this case and its investigation. My heart goes out to John's family.
To add: Thus far, Karen has not been proven to have said, "I hit him, I hit him." McCabe ( the woman , cant remember her first name🤷🏾♀️ ) admitted to saying it 12 times and has made it very clear that she hates Karen. Her hatred is palpable.
It's feeling very witch hunty 👀
Hey Vinnie, As for as DNA on the SUV goes, the end all is the photo of the stop and shop bag next to the taillight. Lank said it was entered into the evidence dept. Lies about the chain of custody.
The timestamp wasnt mirrored so the timestamp was added after it was altered/mirrored. For the prosecutor not to notice .... Lally is incompetent, complicit, or both.
How to trust, When the police is collecting evidence in solo cups, blowing snow , not labelling correcly thw evidence, finding evidence in the vecinity weeks after without measuring where the found it. When the leading investigator had conections with the involved and the local police had withdraw because of conflict but only for the interviews
I think the jury has already reached a verdict
Not guilty
I really enjoy watching Karen’s lawyers, they’re awesome. But Lally puts me to sleep and it’s hard to hear him. He seems to just respond objection‘ after every sentence from the defense. And the Judge Bev comes across as biased a lot.
Reasonable doubt is all the defense needs.
They said there were no injuries on John from neck down to his feet. John's right arm scratches and gashes, hit with something above his eye . Hit hard in back of head.
No BROKEN BONES on John.. seems like tail light hitting a soft body so light that there is no broken bones. would not cause tail light to break! PLUS POLICE COVER UP !!
I completely agree with the argument he presents as to how the prosecution should probably have charged and brought the case, HOWEVER, there is something suspicious about the whole situation as far as the actions of the police that raise serious questions. I thought this not knowing the back-story about the investigation of Proctor. I actually knew nothing and hadn’t listened to anything but straight streaming of the trial. Immediately I did not trust many of the prosecution’s witnesses. As a former prosecutor who requested a dismissal of one of my cases immediately after my “star” witness testified because they lied (and I knew it without doubt), I would be furious with the filing deputy for filing the case in the first place or would not have tried it myself after having worked up the case and recognized the serious issues involved here. I firmly believe that a prosecutors duty is to get justice, not just “win” a case. Why was this case brought without further investigation? I don’t know anything about the back-ground investigation of the officers or the case in general, I just know that I’ve never seen such a questionable train-wreck brought to trial before. My belief is that there are too many glaring “errors” made during the police investigation for this just to be negligence on their behalf and the evidence doesn’t match up with their story. I realize that all the prosecution’s evidence hasn’t been presented yet, but it is either a strange way of prosecuting or there’s a reason that we have not heard from either the phone or medical forensics yet. It’s just strange. I’ve seen a lot of somewhat incompetent police investigations, but nothing like what happened here. Small, sleepy department though they may be, it’s hard for me to believe that any officer would ever handle evidence collection or the chain of custody like these officers all seemed to do. It’s just too sloppy for me to believe it wasn’t done with some kind of motive. IMO, in this case, the “extraneous” things are really important factors that necessarily SHOULD come out because they should have been taken into account before ever bringing this case to trial. If I were asked right now if I believe she did it, I’d say I had reasonable doubt.I don’t believe that they really had a plan to frame her from the get-go, it looks to me like he got into a fight with someone in that house and they dragged him outside waiting for him to die. How else to explain the 4am Google search about how long it would take for someone to die in the cold? There has been no expert presented to explain how that happened without it being done and then deleted. What about the marks on his arm? If they could prove it was not done by a dog why haven’t they presented anything to show it yet? Maybe they will, but letting the jury hear all this evidence that is so devastating to their case without changing up their witness order is just stupid. There’s so much doubt now that I don’t know if they can rehabilitate.
I have a confession. I barely knew anything about this case and only assumed the "conspiracy theory" was just another crazy far fetched theory similar to the political ones flying around. That was until I saw the evidence and testimony for myself. This is a tragedy of epic proportions. Not only did a man lose his life, but the killers are trying to take the life of his innocent girlfriend. It is also tragic for the community who has been victim to the corruption.
My husband works from home. We have 2 ginormous german shepherds The UPS/Amazon dude almost always shows up when I'm in the bathroom...hense the the bark fest. Hearing your dogs bark reminds me that we're all normal. 😂😂😂
I doubt if anyone in that town will get in trouble for perjury.
31:28 Vinnie “my dogs bark every single time somebody walks by my house.” But a German Shepherd was sleeping in the front bedroom of 34 Fairview, directly above the body, and nobody in that house woke up?
I was today years old when I found out that Vinnie has his own channel...thanks to the Law and Lumber chat replay.
I've never subbed so fast in my life. Excuse me while I binge all of your Karen Read videos 😂
Karen was suspicious from the beginning !Early morning when she saw the piece of taillights (!before going Albert's home)she tried to understand what could have happened!after getting alberts house she convinced herself that she could have hit him!when she come to her senses and saw everything she realized that he couldn't died by accident!!!there is no way her taillights smashed that fast and killing him!!!!Those investigators obscured the evidence to make it easier for her to be accused !it is my understanding 🤷♀️
They said they had actual ring footage of her hitting him to get the arrest warrant. That video has disappeared as well.
It’s so sad that being distraught because your partner is beat to a pulp and frozen equates to suspicion… especially after investigating for a few months and find that all the acts of other party members seems totally reasonable compared to Karen. WTF?
Apart from the light, what other evidence have they showed? That she was drunk, that se had a fight in Aruba? That doesnt proove she hit him.
By far, the best stream I’ve seen this weekend! ❤❤❤ Everything I have been thinking.
Amen!
Thanks, Vinnie, for great ad free legal commentary!!
...almost thinking they had a "Fight Club" moment in the house/basement and everyone was too drunk to realize it went too far.
That’s what I think. It happens. I’ve seen someone die in a bar fight. Two drunk guys one hit the other. The other passed out and hit the floor with nothing to break the fall. I think that’s what happened to John in the basement.
They were hoarsing around in the bar earlier.
Coke was involved in bet
The murder charge is insane to me. Overcharged for sure. I’m not sure what the truth is, but if KR was at fault I believe it was completely accidental. She’d be at fault for drinking but murder? I don’t see it. If it was the other side, maybe a fight got out of hand or something accidental happened on that end. And now they’re trying to cover it up. I don’t know, but the fact that they charged her so ludicrously almost makes me feel like there’s something nefarious going on to cover up for the Fairview crew. It’s just way too suspicious.
Watching this feels like sitting with an old friend, a smart friend who finally made this case make sense?!? I’ve admired your legal mind for years. Thanks for doing this case…Im obsessed!
Read’s BAC was over the limit 8 hours after the incident. Not hard to believe that 8 hours earlier she was so drunk she hit O’Keefe without meaning to.
it is when you consider the lackof evidence and the ex\tremely shoddy investigationg.
The forensic photos of 34 Fairview never emphasize the gate to the backyard, which is to the immediate right of the garage and driveway. Karen said she dropped John off at the foot of the drive and watched him walk up the driveway before pulling forward to park and wait for him to call her. We know she would have dropped him off before 12:23 am, when the F-150 with Ryan Nagle inside pulled in after Karen. Remember when the Alberts testified that the dog was let out in the backyard. Nicole Albert got home at 12:15 am, and said Brian Albert, who drove home with her, let the dog out when he got home. Brian said he used the restroom as soon as he got home. I believe it. He was drinking beer all night. He used the restroom after he got home at 12:15 am and before he went upstairs to get the dog. That sounds like the dog was let out at about 12:20 am. It sounds like John would have reached the end of the drive at about 12:22 am. I think John snuck in that gate to the backyard to take a leak before heading into the party. I think the dog mistook him for an intruder and grabbed his right arm, causing him to fall on the back of his head on the cement pool surround. Zillow shows an inground pool behind that gate. It's possible that John was able to get himself up for a moment before falling again on his face and hand. I think John was dead when the Alberts discovered him back there, hours later. And because of the liability associated with the dog, who did not have a known bite history at that time, they made the poor decision to stage it as a snowplow accident in the front yard. That effort may have been successful if Karen had not been histrionic that morning. She noticed her cracked taillight right before finding John's body and irrationally associated the two things. John's injuries are not from a vehicle. They don't look like a fight either. It is rare to injure both the front and back of your head. Those are dog bites on his arm. The top and bottom teeth marks get joined when the dog pulls. I doubt anyone wanted to hurt John except for the dog who thought he had invaded her yard.
Hell yeah..I like it.
Most sensible thing I’ve heard yet.
Very interesting theory for sure !! Bravo .. though I think the basement floor replacement suspicious.. will we ever know..
🇺🇸♥️🕊🇺🇸
No dog DNA?
@@kittymartin2982yes bc his arm wounds were never tested for dna!
Could not agree more that they overcharged her. Even if the Prosecutor is right that she hit him there no motive here. It’s a long way to murder just because the relationship was going South. Nothing I saw shows Karen out of control prior to his death. Her being highly upset when she sees her boyfriend lying in the snow is completely normal and actually proves her case.
I cannot wait for the experts to explain the injuries and more of the evidence
Reasonable Doubt!!! Without a Doubt!!!
Justice for Officer John O'keefe. May he RIEP and may his grieving famiiy find comfort and peace ❤🙏🏼😇🌹💜
Adam Lowly lost his credibilty with the jury w that mirror image of the suv..got busted..he did the shiit on purpose
Lally
At this point everyone is calling him anything but his name and I am here for it. He went low, we are all going lower
Great insight! Would be great to see more of these lives!
Vinnie this is such an amazing explanation of how direct examination versus cross works!!!
Hit and run. Mr. O'Keefe, looks like her was beaten up. I am just a citizen watching this trial.
Look like her was beaten up?really. What does that even mean
Where did U see the pictures to form this opinion? I haven't seen them, do you know what day those were shown so I can go back and rewatch , or a link ?
People saying it's not a car hit injuries and looks like being beaten up injuries, I'd like to be able to see what they've seen to form that opinion, so I can consider it for myself too.
Thanks. 😊
His hands had bruises as if he had been in fist fight. So much for getting hit by the car. Not sure how his hands got all bruised up by the tail light yet?
@@LeeAnn19697he not her I think
@@LeeAnn19697it's called a type-o. You can't connect the dots and realize she meant he instead of her? 🤦♀️
Karen at the house when she spotted John was trying to figure out how and why he was on the ground and tried to figure out in her head out loud what had happened and started asking questions if she could have hit him when she went to leave and didn't know that. She wasn't confessing to a crime. Everyone was drinking that night and you could say they all had way to much to drink. If Jen was a friend? why didn't she sit Karen down and ask what she did that night when everyone was wondering why she and John never went into the house vs Telling others that Karen said she hit John without the full context?
They absolutely stoked her panic! Horrific behavior. That takes some serious levels of cruelty and evil, in my opinion.
She was a jealous hot head drunk who cared for the kids, did financial trusts for them, and then was disrespected by him and told he thought relationship was toxic. He meant she was toxic and crazy (if you believe Laura Sullivan). Of course its a motive. This is a Betty Broderick case . Karen was desperate to keep him and John was walking on egg shells trying to break up with her in a way she would not go nuts…welp, he did not succeed. Don’t forget she called him her husband to all the EMTs who took her to hospital….weird
Well for me it was a Sunday night special because I watched the replay and I totally enjoyed it! Thanks for your dedication and candor with every broadcast you do and as always your coverage of this case is awesome. Gave you a sub so I don’t miss you next time. You are the best. Thanks for being here for all of us ⚖️