I settled into the tank role early on in my gaming career. I learned very quickly that I'm bad at video games, but I am very good at getting hit in the face. Then I learned that getting hit in the face was a career path, so my choice was clear.
Some people will tell you the best way to get good at games is to avoid getting hit. These people are wrong. The best way to get good at games is to know what hits you can survive, which hits your teammates can't, how to abuse I-frames in games with them, and how to quickly recover from a near-debilitating injury. All the dodging in the world can't save you from an unlucky shot... but a whole lot of HP can.
People can say whatever they want about positioning and people being toxic, playing Tanks keeps me from aiming in shooters, and playing rhythm games in MMOs and MOBAs
This is me but with healing/support. I'm not going to stand in front, but I love figuring out how to be the best force multiplier and set my team up for success.
Fawful's Minion put it this way, " What makes playing Heavy fun? Being the clog in the enemy team's pipeline. Taking pride in protecting my team, and tearing babies to shreds." Heavy is basically an anchor in which you keep the frontlines from being pushed back, I've noticed that as soon as heavy goes down the group falls back, which gives the BLU team time to push forward.
Heavy does get the option to push the frontline forward to actively take ground from the enemy team. Sentries are more towards fallback options unless the engineer aggressively moves the sentry which needs time to setup. Spy and Snipers being pick classes could easily remove both Heavies or Sentries themselves. I say it’s more of so them being possible threats to cripple teams.
I love Tanking, I love coordinating with other people. I also love not getting healed because I’m solo queued into a group of E-daters. I also love my team not following my orders.
@@wabingusnothing pains more than You wait for your teammates to group up, they come, you say youre going in, die in a second, and see your teammates do nothing
One of my favorite Tank-ish character for PVE games is the Gunner from Deep Rock Galactic. His low maneuverability is balanced by his shield. Pop it and you got a stall zone that edges out bugs, blocks enemy projectiles, and gives much needed breathing room in a pinch. No other class can save a team like the Gunner. Best part is that its just one tool in his kit- He still deals damage, has fun weapons, and chugs beers.
There's a great point hear too. Newer players find gunner to be useless, not cos he is but at lower difficultys he never gets chance to flex his strength. With the right build he takes 75% less dmg from explosives... that means a bulk can't break his shield. Maybe that's more of the way gaming should think about tanks, not giving up ground being valuable. All the love in the world to my gunner brethren, from a reckless engi Also, if you don't rock and stone, you ain't coming home
@@Mightypi Very true. I think it can also come down to "burst" vs "sustain" designs. Without experience it can be tough to known when to put down a shield- it's on a decent cooldown and can be forgotten about it in the heat of a swarm. Its tougher to wrap a new player's head around. This in contrast to the driller who is made to sustain control. Hold left click with your favorite primary weapon and you're slowing, burning, or freezing bugs to give your team room to breathe. Its not a panic button like the shield or freeze grenades but it's easier to understand when jumping in.
One thing to note - GOATS meta made tanks OP not because they could deal as much damage as the DPS, but because they would never die. If you look at some of the older matches from that time, fights would last forever, and you would have your ulti up on the first point because of the amount of manfighting and healing going on. Basically, the first team to get their ulti off would win the fight, and the matches were often determined by this. Having 3 healers made any kind of flanking DPS entirely unviable because they could all peel for each other.
It wasn't as much the tank that was an issue as Lucio and Bridgette were with AOE healing. All the tanks were replacable, and there was even Sym goats and Sombra goats, however Lucio and Bridgette was VITAL as if you didn't have them, the whole comp fell apart. The tanks you ran were just whatever was best at that patch.
I hate to say it but that is what the devs thought at the time they always thought dps were weak and tanks were strong but turned out it was all about supports since the start
@@SnickMonster For sure, Lucio and Brig were absolutely vital to the comp. The thing is, both Lucio and Brig had very low healing output back then, and the 3rd healer would optimally be someone that can heal a lot like Ana, and she would be absolutely invincible with 3 tanks and 2 hard to catch supports peeling for her.
@@therealzizmon1748 for the majority of time 3rd healer was Zen, so your argument kinda falls apart. Brig was replaced by Bap later on and that worked just fine. Lucio was vital not because of AOE heal, but because of speed boost
@@therealzizmon1748 That was the second evolution of GOATs if I remember correctly. First form was Moira as the third healer, then came the Ana not because of her higher healing but for her nade. Last was Zen variant to round out the rock, paper, scissors of the comp. Ana beat Moira, Zen beat Ana, Moira beat Zen. Though the last wasn't that common because discord was still incredibly strong so usually became Zen mirror matches.
Tanks failure is usually also exacerbated by the teams failure. DPS playing dumb and not focusing, heals mis-prioritizing their targeting and cooldowns, etc. These are all team games and everyone has a role to play. Simply saying "tanks run everything" is just untrue. I have seen healers who can lead a group and the tank is just in the front. Healers and DPS have life saving cooldowns in almost every game. -Signed, a lifelong tank player in many games.
I will point out, that DPS can also have the issue of not really being able to focus, and if they try too much, they will be caught out, and that is why the front line needs to try and dictate the fight, and open up the space for the DPS to be able to do their focus rather safely.
@@decidueyezealot8611 This could be true, but if the tank never pushes or always hunkering down (when they're supposed to be in the offensive) the DPS got frustrated that they cant attack. Tank is like some sort of "checkpoint" once the tanks stays there the team around them feels that it's safe to screw around near the tank. So the tank also need to know when to push and when to not, cause hunkering down forever (unless defending point ofc) won't do good
The main 2 things i think that make people toxic towards tanks is its often much harder to quantify via a scoreboard or even notice a tanks impact mixed with the fact that in overwatch atleast if u have a serverly outmatched tank you lose the game no matter how weak or strong the role is. Space as a concept is so much more dynamic and complicated than people people realise. Often people dont understand where the space or opportunities are despite them being generated. Even good dps and supports players have scenarios there more used to and better know how to play. Tank in ow imo atleast is bassically finding/creating situations that give your team an advantage. If you team don't understand the advantages they are getting then obviously the egos gunna kick in
Something ive learned from Monster Hunter is that with great defense comes great offense. I love tanking in a bunch of different games (Such as Overwatch rest in peace), cause the incredible defense lets you get really into the opponents face and harrass them to no end
It also came because damage wise the tanks were just as good if not better than dps, so there was basically no reason to run them over characters who have way more health
As a tank, you get to be the massive Chunky bastard that makes the enemy team piss themselves in anger because you keep cock blocking their attacks, and that is enough for me
As a support main in almost every Game I just love all the Tanks, they're jobs are hard and often go unrecognized but I see you, you doing great, please keep it up.
The toxicity part is mostly other people thinking they could do better as a tank in a party/raid setting, yet never do and just have their massive egos out. Literally all bark from healers and DPS, yet none of em would ever attempt tanking, because they know they would get embarrassed. Tanking is relatively simple aslong you get the mechanics down that matter for you, eg. tank-swaps, picking up adds, CD usage and positioning, for most of these you need an "offtank" who does your job but is always secondary to you and does some funky mechanics while you tank a boss. Nothing is harder than picking up adds and positioning, people always bitch around that against you, yet all they do is just adjust while you actively set the mobs in the positions you and your lead want to.
To think the argument used to be the exact opposite with Healer's not that long ago, how Healer's used to get called "The easiest" because all they really needed to do is point at someone who's low and bring them up to full again, all 3 class types are extremely hard and they often require a specific field of knowledge to utilize them. Its sickening we have learned NOTHING from our years of abusing and talking doen on Healers...
@@Sulferlines it's always funny to see people shit on healers yet when they go healer they can't even keep their team alive. I've seen so many people including my own friends shit talk healers when they fail yet when they go healer the raids die early and in pvp games a lot of people simply think big healing numbers = good when in reality it's about who you keep alive in any given play. It's sad how little people play team based games as teams and think that they can do no wrong. Each role requires a different approach within every play in both pvp and pve
@@reethardio6432 Yeah... At some point it's more dreadful to see people talk about the "holy trinity" of classes, especially when nearly no one actually knows what they're saying 2/3rd's of the time, none of the classes are actually "The most hated" or "the most misunderstood/underestimated" because no one understands the other classes as much as they actually think, I can give my experience as a TTRPG player as an example, I usually played tanks and DPS but they were "unique" because they used mechanics to avoid taking damage and waste the enemies resources rather than straight up tank it. Am I still a tank? By definition yes, I'm still making sure enemies target me and don't kill my party. Will people be able to take my build and handle it well? Not likely, every person has their own style and in many cases people have a bias against the class/system that favors a style they can't handle. The hate for healers and tanks is just an example of that...
In high level wow raiding tank is probably the easiest role to play _most of the time._ If you're a reasonably competent player, many mythic progress bosses are straight up boring to tank. You can often preplan the entire pull from start to finish to a very high degree and you usually have to stick to your routine and don't have the freedom to react to things happening and make plays the same way other roles can. Performing at top 1% level as a tank doesn't have the same impact as a top 1% healer or dps, just being on par with what the encounter requires is enough. On the other hand if you're playing at a lower level, tanking may seem like a relatively difficult job because you can't carry a subpar tank the same way you could the other roles - you always need a _good enough_ tank, a bad tank has a disproportionately huge negative impact on your success and I can see this leading to frustration and toxicity. There are exceptions of course, there are usually one or two "tank bosses" per tier where tanks have to perform, but most bosses are just routine for tanks. Regardless, tanking can still be rewarding. If you are a good, consistent, dependable tank, you know you are a indispensable asset to your team and they know it too.
Nah, the toxicity argument isn’t even an argument at all. I can count the ammount of times a random dungeon group kicked or even antagonized their tank in a serious way on one hand, and I’ve played wow for decades. You kick him-he will find new group instantly, while you will have to wait another 40 minutes for someone else to pick up the slack-it’s just not worth it in most cases. Not the same for dps. So no, toxicity argument is just dumb, other roles get it way more than tanks.
As a Scorch/Legion main, tanking shots from every other titan so your Ronin can take the glory or a Northstar can survive is truly a bittersweet feeling.
Ocassionally though they become insane in their own right. I remember MVPing using them multiple times just by knowing what damage you can take and when to tunnel vision on taking someone down instead of supressing.
i think this role is just taken for granted a lot in MMO-RPG games, when ever you join a raid in wow for example you see the tank doing just fine so you assume that's how all tanks (and more often then not this is the case) are and you don't notice any thing wrong with the raid but when a new tank joins you immediately notice the difference between both tanks due to gear or the tank not knowing the fight.
Happend to me a lot, when my guild and I did a daily run and i got to dps everyone complain that it was going realy slow. Mind you, i was a prot warrior in wrath so i could and would dash to every pull in the dungeon, take them with my to the boss and tank them while tanking the boss. It wasn't hard but the diference in experience and gear is masive, to that add the confidence that comes with knowing what you are doing and raids could go from 2 hours to 5 easily.
I think the problem with tank role as well is that you will also get blamed even when you tell your teammates to not engage yet, this happens a lot in HoTS where the tank dictates where the fight will go and yet some people will go with Jaina face checking bushes despite the ammount of warnings you tell them to not engage and focus on other stuff instead
HotS, as a whole, has a fairly braindead community, especially in quick play. Teams gets 0-1 tank per match, and then just die to a flanker like Tracer/Genji ganking them because no one wants to play safe. They all play for maximizing stats more than playing to win. I'm not a tired Blaze main, I swear.
That's remind of a game in HoTS where i was doing a good job as Shen while one of our a dps (a Li Ming) was flaming me every time they died. One time I was going to engage a teamfight and then Li Ming teleported in the middle of the enemy team and obviously got killed (and once again it was my fault for that).
Maaaan tank role in a PvP is a different beast entirely. I love being tank in PvE but would not touch it PvP. You get all the tank frustrations on repeat, every few minutes.
And when you do decide the pace, people don't even follow up properly sometimes. Like, look here team I've got 3 people locked in a 3 second stun maybe you want to deal some damage on that? And they're off to the side chasing someone just running away. Also when you peel for a disengage people always think it's an engage.
I actually learned that while DPS is usually more engaging, it’s the tank privilege of not getting obliterated at the bosses sneeze that not only is fun but I like the idea of protecting my teammates Like go off my dudes, I’ll yell at the bosses face, you clap them positional cheeks
A quote from Reinhardt has always stuck with me and motivated me: I will be your shield. The idea of being the huge motherfucker jumping into the line of fire to protect their squishies has always been so appealing to me.
man I feel like the tank role is underrated, the ability to take the brunt and hold a line will always be more satisfying than just moving around dealing damage or healing people.
When I used to tank in WoW, which I enjoyed, it got expensive (in game) quick. Plate armor was more expensive to repair and tanks don’t have any disengage abilities like Feign Death for Hunters or Vanish for Rogues to name a few examples. And of course the flaming and toxicity when it was a wipe since it’s easy to blame the tank since it’s all eyes on them. If it was successful we get no thanks at all and the DPS just link their dps and get praised lol.
i think nowadays DPS is the most "hated" class imo. People now realize that DPS are considered the braind dead class of most game (well unless it's a hard class/job to play) and they're pretty much everywhere. Go ahead create a party, it's always LF tank/heal, rarely LF DPS. So most people has somewhat respect to those 2 role
I would never notice the quality of the DPS, but good or bad Healers would make the experience night and day. Unless its a Raid, an experienced Healer would absolutely lead and carry us through any dungeon.
@@istheworldreal I mean... Don't get this the wrong way, but DPS are usually expendable. I say usually, because a good DPS player is a dream. Really, when you find that guy, that can control his aggro, but can go all out when needed, and know when to actually use their support abilities, it's amazing.
@@devilleknievel2144you can't generalize an entire roles job. Sure, supports have to keep in check on the tank but thats not all. Mercy for example is a pocket and should barely ever play with a tank.
@@devilleknievel2144 My job isn't to babysit you as if we also don't get flanked and have to heal OTHER people. You want your heals? Peel for the supports and push against the enemy team.
I am a tank main on overwatch 2, and I am constantly blamed for doing my job. My job is not to kill everything, tank all the damage, make space and carry the game, but that tends to happen. Some of these things are the tank's job, but not entirely damage. Very few games have I gotten useful dps even in diamond, and I am the one who is blamed for things not dying??? Why is that? People can miss all of their shots, just shoot their tank all game, adn clean up when I get the picks for them. and they get away for free??!!!
I flex in OW1, but When solo q, sometimes have to play tank(most of the time). I love when Forever Bronze DPS bragging about his Damage Gold when all he did is shoot at barrier(Rein/Wins/Orisa), not put pressure on healer and not protect healer that stand beside him. When lose, instant blame everyone except themself.
For example In LoL it's so good when I play a support role tank or enchanted and my team mate blame me for anything. If I'm 0/4/20 it's bad BCS I'm 0/4 tho it doesn't matter I have 20 assists but the moment I accidentally take a kill then I'm stealing their kill's.
I'm thinking of the silver Genji/Mcree/Hanzo who shoot the Roadhog all match, end up with 10k damage and 4-10 e/d and then blame the tank and heals while bragging about their damage.
Great video I main tank on Overwatch, climbed all the way up to grand master, even played a LAN as a tank. Always felt like it was the « least rewarding », the line « if you do it right, it'll seem like you did nothing » is SO so true Playing with friends tho, or people listening, coordoning fights and all. There were fights where I felt like a commander or something and it felt so nice, I had eyes everywhere, feeling like a maestro of the battlefield balancing between offense and defense. The tank role is just so, so under appreciated. I think it's because it's easy to hate on it that I've been drawned to it. Like « Someone's got to do it, and I'm going to do it right »
It took me a little while (and a few games played), but I eventually settled into and enjoyed the role of the Tank. While healers may find themselves getting that dopamine hit from being the fulcrum between life and death, and DPS get happy juices from seeing big damage numbers, there's nothing more satisfying to me than taking a direct hit from a god-like being that would delete someone else-and yet still be alive
A few things: 1. Heavy is just as unpopular in TF2 as tanks are in every other game 2. A Tank is often defined by their high defense and CC, but low damage, but that's not necessarily the case. The former and ideal philosophy on Overwatch tanks is that they have high damage, durability, and the only ones with reliable CC, but they lack range, mobility, or has very clear windows of weakness, like Roadhog. 3. Something not mentioned here is CC. No one likes to lose control of their character, but as a Tank, you're the primary target for that CC, adding another reason that Tanks are unpopular
heavy's unpopular for a different reason than most tanks. Its more because he's very mechanically linear than any inherent "tank" reason. He just isnt as mechanically varied with tech nor has near as many viable playstyles as most classes. His only subclass is badly weak melee build and people unironically try to argue that just using a shotgun, a literal stock weapon he just has from the start, is a subclass for him because of how little he has to do. Its not a tank issue with heavy, its a "he is way too linear" problem of him just literally doing one thing for the most part.
Heavy's more of a danger tank or a fighting game heavyweight: If an enemy carelessly approaches, they die. If you play Heavy, there's not much anyone can do to you in an honest one-on-one fight because of his terrifying damage...But good luck getting one of those to begin with
This video made me feel a little better about having put so much tank into playing Tank in OW1 and OW2. I'll remind myself this next time I get blamed for something that wasn't my fault or not playing to the best of my ability at all times.
I think what makes Heavy such a good Tank are the weapons he is given to slightly change him up. Despite his slow speed the Shotguns allow him to be mobile without having to rev up his Minigun picking off nuisance classes. Not talking about the Buffalo Steak Sandvich, his Lunchbox items give him much needed sustainability and survivability. Some of his Melees, namely the FoS and GRU give him some type of utility to shave some of his downsides. Usually with his Miniguns, is just picking your favorite one for the right situation imo, even the Brass Beast has its uses Compared to most Tank classes, he isn't as much of a sitting duck like he is made our to be. I know people say the Heavy is a stale class, but there are still some fun Loadout ideas to try with him
i wish they'd buff buffalo steak sadvich for a boxer heavy subclass though. (and a melee focused primary but we're never getting new weapons lmao) a melee subclass to rival demoknight
Heavy's a force to be reckoned with even without a team, if you aren't a sniper on the other side of the map or Soldier/Demo who can deal splash damage from around the corner you'll get shredded by him.
Unironically the Brass Beast is a force to be reckoned with when you have a competent and coordinated team to back you up (NOT a sweaty team, just a decent one). Not just a pocket medic, not just a sniper buddy, real teamwork and cooperation. It's unbelievably satisfying to plow through an annoying choke point with a squad backing you up. Get a good demo/soldier for sentries, a scout/pyro for recon and ambush protection, and a medic to keep all of you alive, and suddenly everyone starts respecting the brass beast. And yeah, you could accomplish something similar with the other miniguns, but the extra DPS and damage reduction keeps you in the fight for way longer, and creates a situation where your team treats you kind of like a payload cart; if they stick around you, and keep the enemies off of you, they'll have much better odds than just going solo.
Heavy is fun so long as you actually get to play as heavy and not get 1 shot by that one spy that seems dead set on always backstabbing you no matter what the actual fuck happens
Easily the worst role in the game bar none. ALL of them play the same. Every tank has 1-2-3 combo, 100 energy bar, and 50 energy skill that they use to not go over cap. Some have shields, some have mit, some have healing, but in the same proportions, and on practically identical CDs, so you can plan out the fight so your 40%s and Invuls are ready for a tank busters. Snore fest
@@max7971You’re entitled to your opinion, but I just hit 9 Fell Cleaves in a row followed by a Monkey Flip while healing the rest of my team after the healer went down and having fun here.
I really liked tanking in the MOBA Smite. Typically the support in the duo lane was also the tank. In the first five minutes they’d stay with the ADC, but after that they’d roam and also support the jungler and mid. They’d build into mostly defense items and make up for the lack of damage with heavy cc abilities. Solo laners would also frequently be fairly tanky.
I love playing support Sylvanis and screwing with the enemy with all the CC or going a bruiser build with someone like bachus to set up a nice ambush or break formations.
Smite is a weird one though seeing as it doesn’t really fit the ‘holy trinity’ bill since there is no healer role after all Tanks are literally called supports in Smite. Though I will echo your sentiment, I love tanking… from the back line that is.
she is straight up the most boring basic tank of them all. Laser, bubble, laser, bubble. You could say the same with pretty much any character with a shield or extra HP
@@destiny_5540 giving someone a shield that essentially gives them temporary health is a very healer mechanic. making a shield that is either stationary or follows the caster which absorbs damage is a very tank mechanic.
@@RadialSeeker113 I play mostly at diamond and masters. probably people are pissed at you become you're not running the meta, and you're actually being happy playing genji. I didn't reach GM myself, but having friends from top 500, it gets better around GM where one tricking is more common, so a lot of the time, they kinda just go: this guy must know what he's doing, whatever
@@domicci4460 this is probably because GMs know the power supports have low level players blame DPS because nobody is dying, regardless of how much space or time you got. mid level players blame tanks because they're "not making space" even though nobody pushes with the tank, and only start attacking after the tank is half health. high level players know positioning and trust a bit more on the supports to do their job and apply their utility correctly being the ranks that know how to use a suzu or anti nades at it's peak, many pushes rely on utility to start, and supports hold a lot of utility it's just a hypothesis, I'm just an ex ranked masters that today just plays casual because I wanna be happy, not to have an ego badge om my account
I've been yelled at and even left by heavily-geared healers that complain that I am too slow and am not pulling fast enough to the point where they will sometimes actively start pulling mobs if I don't do so myself.
In moba the problem is either they are turbo busted dealing bilion damage whiel soaking bilion damage, or they are soaking wet paper that cant do anything, and never in between.
@@GamingDualities anyway here me building Tara's and bm with 2 lv disadvantage pb, good luck kill that mother fucker, as I said either turbo busted or nothing, and never in between
@@Monkchelle_Kongbama now the problem is where is the break point and find it, like it's doesn't matter the team losing , if a tank is busted it's gonna be painful experience for everyone who not picking tank and when they weak everyone who pick tank will be on painful experience because they can't do shit, I been on MOBA space almost my entire life and I never once find a single patch where tank feel balance, or close to the break point where they can soak enough damage while doing ramping up damage because they live long enough and dealing good amount damage. It always boils down into they too tanky and still able to burst you down with one rotation, or they don't do anything because they get burst down by everyone.
@@vo1ce147 I don't think you can. Tank's don't really poke, they exist in an all in playstyle. The point of a tank is not to die. So when a tank doesn't die, they automatically get to impact a fight longer. I don't think anyone could reasonably find a damage value for a tank to not either be useless or too valuable... and arguably CC is more infuriating and another can of worms.
I love playing Alistar or Naut support, because at full build im almost unkillable not doing any damage, but casually strolling through them and stunning or rooting them.
@@JDReC100 Erm... The reason why tanks can crumple is because there is counter builds, counter characters, etc. But most tanks can both be built with damage, or survivability. Someone like Tahm can be absurdly defensive, and deal decent damage as well, but if he is kited he is absolutely utterly useless in terms of damage, and for that matter CC. He is a "damage tank", Ornn is kind of in the same boat. His CC is relatively easy to counter, but he makes up for that with good bursts of damage if you land it, along with a heavily telegraphed major stun. You are right now acting exactly like the DPS complaining about the Tank, but towards the developers and the balance team instead. If it is so easy to just make survivable tanks that CCs, that also has enough impact on the game that they are worth attacking (otherwise, there is no point in the tank), do it yourself? If all the tanks are just running around stunning/rooting/etc. then you suddenly have the issue that only few tanks will be played, because... well... the only thing they really contribute to the fight is stunning/rooting/etc, and you are only going to pick the "best in slot" for that. Right now you have Alistair who actually has a competent heal passive heal on top of his CC, he has unique ways to approach the CC, and so does Naut and Leona, but you also have Nasus, who has ridiculously little CC, but unless he is dealt with, he can eat your team alive if you don't keep him away. You have someone like Tahm that might not look like he does much in the start of the fight, but suddenly he is capable of dealing quite significant amount of damage over time, while supplying stuns/slows and self-heals and shields to stay alive while doing so. Or you have someone like Sion, who if killed first can end up hurting your team more in the long run, because of his passive, and can get some pick offs while focused, etc. etc. etc. But all of these tanks can be countered by Attack Speed ADCs, with BoRK and Lord Dominik's Regard, and that is where you should rely on your assassin to help pick off that ADC, etc. You are taking this very varied and rather complex issue of tanks and boiling it down to nothing. Almost none of the tanks deal "absurd damage", their time to kill, even on ADCs is slower than essentially every other class in the game, but they can survive while dealing that damage, if built right, and played right.
@@potatolord5774 I know that is bullshit, I have mained Tahm, and the time to kill is often 3-4 seconds, requires me to be next to a non-mobile squishy, and not having anyone peel for them. If Tahm had no damage though, he'd be utterly useless, as he has little utility. Don't get caught out by a Tahm, someone like Lucian can eat Tahm alive with just BoRK and Lord Dominik's Regard, where if he can dodge my Q, I have very little recourse for handling him.
I used to play a lot of tank in Overwatch 1 but stopped a while before Overwatch 2 because I just enjoyed damage more. It felt like I was doing a lot more and I got to see more improvement. Getting back into tank has been enjoyable but the reliance on a good support is the worst part about it. You either have big dps or damage sponge that gets to do nothing
>be rein, enemy tank also rein >peel for my dps and support, focus the junkrat which is kicking my teams butt and kill him start of each fight >use shield when needed and pressure enemy supports so my dps can take them or tank out >get a 5 man ult wiping the enemy >somehow lose >most damage done (as much as my two dps combined), most damage mitigated , most elimination >my kiriko: tank diff that sums up the tank experience
As someone who has gone through military service and have a brother who's an actual tank commander, tank is such a dumb sounding term. The person who came up with the term probably don't know what the job of tanks are in real world combat. A tank is supposed to be shock and awe, meaning enemies run away from them and they destroy things, the exact opposite of drawing enemy attention and doing less damage in general.
That's actually not entirely far away from game tanks at all. I play a few games where tanks in general are supportive through their presence alone. Their existence forces the enemies to play differently or be pummeled. Tanks, per design, ARE shock and awe just like real ones.
Pretty sure Supports are the most hated role not tanks. Being an immovable wall that may not 1 shot but still feels like a raid boss to take down is satisfying. Being the teams mule who carries all their stuff with no recognition is the sad part
i love being a tank main! i’m pretty good when it comes to gaming not because i’m naturally talented or anything but because i genuinely love to put the time and effort to get good at whichever game im playing at the time i usually end up having to abandon the role later on because of one of two things 1.either im better than the dps i keep coming across or 2 and this is the main main reason. tanks just get blamed for a lot of things and or they go unappreciated and it sucks lmao only tank mains can look at another tank main and really appreciate their skill
One way to get around the problem of tanks is a skirmisher role, like in splatoon. Weapons like the Tetra Dualies and the Splata Wiper have amazing movement and draw fire by having the ability to easily disengage while still being threatening. This is a really fun and cool play style.
I believe you're thinking of the "Off Tank." In Paladins, they're the ones who duel flankers, plunge into the backline, and have threat to pressure the enemy team from pushing while the main tank focuses on the main objective.
I main Wrecking Ball in Overwatch 2 and the amount of shit you get from team-mates is ridiculous, just for picking him. And then I get told to switch tank, and I’m even worse than I am with Ball if I do, but get loads of grief if I don’t. It’s such a shame it’s like this because Wrecking Ball is a pretty unique character and really engaging to play, but I’m scared to use him because of the backlash I get if I don’t play perfectly or if the team doesn’t win.
Ironically in Pokemon unite, people are usually the happiest when they see team mates that are tanks because tank players usually know to play basic and safe versus all the terrible speedsters or offensive bass characters who rip apart like paper when they rush In recklessly.
I mained Blastoise and I can't tell you the amont of times I saved teammates who was trying to flee from a losing fight by using the various knockback moves, giving the teammate some much needed distance and be able to safely retreat into side of the map.
At the same time, tanks expect to be pocketed at all times yet they never really fully commit to their job and this is coming from another tank player.
To be fair dps is an accessory role in games like overwatch, they’re important and have a lot of responsibilities if they’re the main damage and support/tank can’t out damage them
This is why I like dota's approach. You don't have a dedicated tank role, it's just that some heroes have kits and item combinations that allow them to frontline. This just means that they are the first to go in when pushing objectives, and this means that characters that traditionally wouldn't be tanks in other games, can in fact frontline. A good example would be Gyrocopter when played as a carry. Despite being a ranged hero that is dependent on ability cooldowns, he can build items that give attack damage and health such as Satanic and Black King's Bar which allow him to walk in front of his team and push objectives such as towers.
Then they are no longer tank but fighter. Dota doesn't have traditional tank because tanks doesn't work in pvp. If you give them no damage, they get ignore, if you give them damage they become fighter.
@@dieptrieu6564 Most tanks in League when building tank items are actual tanks. Maokai, rammus, sion ... But yea in most pvp games, the best defense is offense, you dont need to soak dmg when theres no dmg to soak
@@MefoWho Lmao, no. These tanks have enough damage to murder the squishy champ. Otherwise everyone would just ignore them. That have been the balance problem in league since forever
I like tanking in FF14 because I have fast Que times and I can lead the party along with my pace or I can speed things up if they can handle it it lets me coordinate a lot better than anything most people like
Without watching, and as a long loooong time tank/healer player, I feel like DPS are easily the most hated between the three. Not only that, but I feel like the hatred only grows as you branch into more specific kinds of DPS like DOT heavy DPS or Control DPS like warlock or frost mage from WoW respectively. In my experience, tanks also get the benefit of often being the IGL, so not only do I feel like they usually avoid a lot of the toxicity/hate, but they’re actually usually the ones dishing it out. As an aside, pure/predominant buffers are easily the most loved role in games. They avoid the hate targeted at the pure healers for messing up heal prio, and they usually also have over time heals which people usually have no idea how to criticize.
I do admit that the tank role does suck, but I personally never really got people to be toxic to me. Likely because I always would use the argument of, my job is to eat damage to keep your squishy ass safe, not listen to you blame me for the lack of damage you bring.
One of my favorite experiences in all of gaming is tanking 5 man dungeons in classic wow. And not even with friends specifically, randos are fine. Let's get lost exploring the depths of BRD together, friends!
On top of all of this is because that in games like FFXIV and LoL, tanking is known as a very, if not the most easy class in the game. For LoL, often you are essentially sacrificing your autonomy for skillful plays to give the rest of your team breathing room. Not only is this playstyle not appealing to many players, it also brings with it less respect from other players since you're actively putting the spotlight on somebody else instead of yourself. Not to mention how the person you put the spotlight on can just trip over themselves and ruin the setup you give them
I could say the same for healers.. no one wants to be the healer who don't do high damage and gets lots of kills. I would even say that Healer is even less popular then tanks.. thanks to the fact that most tanks in games can still do good damage, while healers don't do damage. In conclusion.. Both healers and tanks need to get more positive encouragement from the rest of the players.. as both those roles are extremely stressful and hard to do. compared to dps.
I usually love to play frontline and tanky characters as I used to be a Nasus OTP and I play Tanks for my friends in WoW. I love to coordinate with my friends and do the challenges together. It is the random players out there that I don't want to tank for.
As a main healer in ffxiv i always try to have because I know how hard that role is... And because tank and healers live in symbiosis, but besides that is because I deeply appreciate our chunky big-hearted carries. Please never change tanks ❤
I enjoyed playing tank in normal raids when I was active FFXIV years ago but I never did the impossible runs. Maybe my opinion will change if I did do the endgame challenges at the highest difficulty. Then again I normally picked 3 jobs and learn them to the best of my abilities. One tank, one dps, and one healer. When I quit I was Paladin, Monk, and White Mage. This was back in 2015 though.
@@max7971now imagine tanks in savage and ultimate raids. Suddenly there's more to "smacking boss, pop mitigations" 🙃 (I mean, I don't think people care to do swaps in normal raids in the first place even though sometimes there are in fact swap mechanics, it's so brute-forcey lol)
As somebody who blatantly mains the definitive Mighty Glacier/Melee Tornado hybrid in Kid Icarus Uprising and and prefers to use armor-based loadouts in general, I can provide my 2 cents, especially since I have some additional stuff to say after seeing Vars III's video about Olimar, which actually came out shortly after this, and even though he's not somebody who would be looking for heavy armor, do I have something to say about HIM. First off, the most important subject to cover is about the aspect of risk-reward. A lot of people end up with doubts about using options with obvious risks, and they understand the reasons for wanting speed over power that were brought up by Goku in Dragon Ball Z in one of his more bright moments. I can point out that Goku in that same moment understood that having power to back up the individual attacks was still going to be needed, hence the "Super Saiyan weight training" as I'm calling what he and Gohan went with. And the weight training analogy definitely helps, as when YOU can conceivably avoid needing to have active thought when throwing out superpowered moves with obvious punishable drawback, the opponent will be less able to know when to expect those superpowered moves. Even so, not everybody is going to be going with this idea, but the good news is that secondary purposes is a useful concept, because armor guys can themselves be smart against those risk-reward methods, so more natural reasons to use them would help in smokescreening them. In that regard, we want anti-armor methods that are well-designed. Anti-armor would be things that would be good for punching through armor, obviously with heightened risk-reward as highlighted above. There is no hard limit on what can be anti-armor; it can be long range, like Pac-Man's Fire Hydrant in Smash Bros, or it can be subtle, like the Power "Power Thief" in Kid Icarus Uprising. The important thing is for the risk factor to be clear as day to allow for the armor guys to challenge the methods directly to grant active interaction. I can even cite about an enemy type example in Kingdom Rush that punctuates the importance of variety with anti-armor: Dark Knights, who have their description include them being "almost impervious to damage", yet there's plenty of anti-armor methods to damage them efficiently enough, and you just have to put in the work to make the most of them. There is also the added point about melee combat. Melee combat is not passive DPS on its own unless your character has the mobility to set it up reliably or the opponent can't work with distance opening for whatever reason, because most locations aren't going to be next to the opponent. And even when melee combat IS managed, you're right there to potentially eat the opponent's counterattack for good measure. Melee combat tends to get compensating benefits as a result. That can be used to bolster the tank, not only as reason to have their durability, but also to even challenge the tank head-on at key moments. Recovery of Mana or a similar resource has been a popular incentive nowadays in game design, and you know it works when Metroid Samus Returns has the player actually consider the Melee Counter against mooks to reasonable effect even when they get the Plasma Beam and Screw Attack for casually melting mooks to get straight to battling the bosses. The whole notion invites skill incentive to retain damage output. Something that does help is cost-effectiveness for risky gameplay. The Power known as Counter, which is an Armor Power, already involves that, and while its design could stand a little more depth for less selective capability, when it works, it works. I can also mention that I actually tried out a more standard mage-style Power loadout for the aforementioned Mighty Glacier/Melee Tornado hybrid a few months back, and while it IS playable, I definitely had moments of missing the mobility that was granted to me by Power Grid space saving. By the way, that Power Grid space that isn't going to defenses? I'm primarily using it to abruptly tag people, and Black Hole has the added convenience that Energy Charge immediately guarantees BH's usefulness regardless of setup even if BH is primarily supposed to save on passive combat involvement. Oh, and yes, in case you didn't see the implication, Kid Icarus Uprising ties durability efficiency to the use of activation abilities while still making it clear and present regardless. That's a very sound approach by making the tank's combat significantly more involved. I can point out that people missing these points is what undermines Olimar in Smash Bros., because they turn him into a Pikmin Throw spammer and get him a "why nobody plays" video for that. That is Smash's fault for not making Pikmin maturity stages matter, which would incentivize using melee attacks, especially the aerials, as damage dealing moves that avoid risking the Pikmin's lives and thus allow Olimar to get increasingly stronger when not projectile camping. His concept is the sort of character we want to indirectly bolster, a Squishy Wizard who doubles as a case of A Father To His Men. Not some coward who sacrifices his loyal helpers to some dark God who will inevitably be fickle. Suffice to say that our armor people just need to have engaging gameplay and we can see our mages equally benefit indirectly without becoming polarizing.
Lets get this out the way goats was only a thing because of brig. You remove brig and the comp fell. Tanks werent doing damage they were just not dying in the fight due to all the AOE healing that brig provided.
Brig was the huge problem of her own and made everything worse, but for goats she was not the root cause imo. Like, slambulance emerged before her, and later on SF Shock replaced Brig with Bap when he came out and it (arguably) worked even better
If I recall she really enabled it by by the end she kinda wasnt really run in it by being optimized out of it. I actully think lucio shares a lot of the blame for it since he helped enable it usin his speed. Supports in general have a habit of breaking the meta tho.
If you can't see the inherent value of 3 supports and 3 tanks without Brig, you're coping lmao. How is a DPS supposed to kill a support when there are two other supports that peel and heal each other? Brig or not, a Tracer wasn't gonna be able to go in and get an Anna when she's sat next to two other supports and shield hoping between two different shields.
I love being the healer having control over who lives is so much fun. Like dps talking too much trash just "accidentally" run out of mana. Tank not being tanky enough make the dps sub in and pray that you have enough to get through it.
I don't know why, but Heavys from TF2 and Ogryns from Warhammer 40K : Darktide are like the two peak standards for tanks being seen positively for me. It could just be the characters themselves and the people who play them being more respectful and enjoyable to interact with. It could be the fact that both characters aren't in extremely competitive games such as Overwatch, therefore the toxicity is a lot less of an issue for me regarding the tanks. Obviously there will be times where people are toxic enough to look past all of that and instead berate Ogryns or Heavys because they didn't simply stick with the team or take out a dangerous threat that they could have killed. But despite some critical mistakes players make on those two characters, I still have respect and admiration for the people who choose to play as the Heavy or an Ogryn, and their always fun to play with in their respective games, on top of being well balanced no matter the circumstances that a match can have in it.
@@reio4641 I have no horse in this race since I tend to jump around all roles, but man tank mains are just as whiny. All you have to do is hold agro and y'all act like it's super hard and complex. Healing and tanking are both easy. Unless you're talking about Overwatch specifically. Then yeah, Supports are crazy annoying in that game compared to any other role.
"All you had to do was to just burst those enemies down!" "All you had to do was to just click on players and heal them!" "All you had to do was to just draw aggro away from the team!"
The Heavy in TF2 isn't balanced because of his kit, he's balanced because nobody in TF2 has utility. Everything is purely based around movement and the type of weapon they carry. Overwatch devolved into GOATS primarily because supports have insane utility, not because tanks are beefy. It naturally followed that tanks which also have utility and the best ults in the game would pair best with them. Durability is less important than their utility and ults. All their durability did was extend fights but those were determined by ult economy anyways. Reduce tank HP to be more in line with DPS and there would still be the same problem. The DPS role in Overwatch, like TF2 characters, has the simplest designs and carry almost no utility. If TF2 added heroes with utility then the idea of what is optimal in that game would change very quickly. Utility in Overwatch is what makes the game interesting though. Removing utility in order to make it more like TF2 would be like stripping away all of the abilities that make DOTA interesting and balancing on a flat axis of just movement and damage.
as a tank player. a lot of the time i go into a random game expecting to carry because if i dont there's no guarantee we can win. even while being on the top of the leaderboard or even having blocked the most amount of damage in for example overwatch it can still get toxic. but when you protect everyone and youre unstoppable as a team its the best feeling knowing you tanked everything and kept pushing forward.
I like Tanking for a chill and competent group.. unfortunately finding a group that's Both is incredibly difficult... Their either too serious or not serious enough
Id loke to eventually look at tanking in FFXIV since tank is usually my best role. Any tips on avoiding toxicity? I'm a pretty empathetic persona and don't want to cause trouble for anyone.
Tank is the easiest role in FFXIV right now. Just press tank stance and you'll keep aggro 99% of the time. Nobody will question you if you say you are a new tank player. At lvl 15 you have basic AoE, ranged pull button, mits, everything you need in dungeons. There is a problem if you are trying gunbreaker. They start at lvl 60, in 60-70 content tanks are expected to know the basics at least. But I started tanking as GNB, just pressed buttons on a dummy, got a feel of the rotation, tested my limits in some dungeons, and I am a tank main ever since. The only advice I can give you is don't be afraid of pulling wall to wall. Cycling mitigation buttons easily helps you survive all pulls if healer doesn't spam Cure 1 and whine every time you pull "too much". There is a couple of dungeons where you are not advised to do that (e.g. Stone Vigil) without a good party, but that exists only in ARR and those dungeons are cursed anyway. Don't overstack %dmg mits tho, there is diminishing returns. In normal content you are less punished by mistakes than DPS, especially ranged phys. You will facecheck mechanics, eat Vuln Ups like a champ and demand more. Just get into it, it's a lot more chill than you think.
Prot Pally Tank here, from back in the day. I loved it, but I also had a close group of dungeon/raiding friends and we actually took the time to learn it together. After a wipe we'd all put our heads together to figure out what went wrong, and we got really far as a team back when we played. I also find Tanking in Heroes of the Storm to be pretty well balanced, just in that Tanks might not ever top the overall damage lists, and they may not be the ones getting the Killing Blow, but they still contribute to the fights. Stitches getting an awesome hook and setting up a great team fight is still super rewarding, even if Stitches himself isn't getting the KBs.
I love playing tank. Since in Overwatch its usually the tank that leads the team to win, if you know how to counter-pick and tank diff the other tank, it'll become a breeze to play. And if people aren't healing you, YOU RUN THEM OVER WITH HOG.
What I like about the tank system in League is mostly map pressure. Sometimes you might not have damage to kill the enemy, but the enemy also has no damage to kill you (at least if it's only one enemy). This draws a lot of attention and as the map is so much bigger than most other pvp, this is a very effective strategy.
Honestly, the "don't waste my time" argument in an EM-EM-OH game of all places is just absurd. You should make a video on the psychology behind it. Typically, I call it a good time to take a break from the game if you resort to this 'excuse'.
I only play ff14 with these roles but when I started I only played dps. I steered away from tanks because of "tankxiety". But I managed to get over it with practice and now I maxxed out all the tank classes and love to play dark knight and gunbreaker. I've still never played healer though lmao.
Usually, I've found, prefacing a dungeon with "I'm new to this dungeon/role, and im probably going to mess up" warns players in advance and the more toxic ones usually split before it becomes an issue.
About the talk on goats. Ow was not played because tanks could dps as much as dps. It was played because of insane aoe healing combined with large health pools and rotations of defensive abilities. Why trade out any of those for another character who will get out healed or out sustained. Sombra was only relevant because of emp which disabled those cooldowns.
back when I played League, being the Top Lane or Support Tank could be a fun time but it could also be stressful. You can pop your combo to setup an engage only for your team not to follow up, or you can perfectly land that hook or stun and hand your ADC a double kill. If you're in the op lane alone you run the risk of accidentally feeding a Jax or an Illaoi or a Darius that then proceeds to walk through your entire team, or you be the first to take your tower and make the enemy Top irrelevant.
It's really weird listening to this because I never see tanks get hated on any more than DPS my entire life. It's always a healer. Who gets blamed for wipes? Healers. Guys don't even want to play healers. They groom girls into doing it for them lmao. What made you think tank was the most hated? Do you actually play MMOs? I don't get it. People usually love their tanks. They get the most praise for the least flak. Boss doesn't die? DPS' fault. Tank dies? Healer's fault. Healer dies? Healer's fault. Seriously. This seems so detached from reality to say that tanks are the most hated. Level down to earth and join us again one day.
As a Pudge players in dota 2 akshon was clueless with a tank class in his POV for every gaming, he should discovery this games that tank in dota is ridiculously terrifying their enemy carry
I usually plat Tank or Healer since my friends usually don't like playing either. But anyways, I was solo queuing one day in Paladins and was playing my Main, Khan. I always insta-pick him. My teammates also insta-picked. Raum, Torvold, and I forgot the 4th one but they were a tank too. At first our team was getting clobbered by an actual team who clearly were coordinating in a Voice Call. But since it was the Siege Gamemode we had a bit of an advantage there since we didn't need to get kills. The Raum managed to coordinate us using the in-chat text chat and thanks to them we managed to pull through a win. And ngl one thing that brought me great joy was how well he knew Khan's synergy with Raum. Since Khan has a Shield and Raum can have an extra health pool we were able to keep taking turns taking fire rather easily.
I think this was a great breakdown video. However, I have to disagree with one of your points. Tanks are NOT the most often blamed role when something goes wrong, unless they were obviously and blatantly fucking up. That honor goes to healers. It's very easy to blame a healer when a wipe happens, and often tanks will do this even when they were the one who screwed up. Also, quoting a game journalist LUL
I settled into the tank role early on in my gaming career. I learned very quickly that I'm bad at video games, but I am very good at getting hit in the face. Then I learned that getting hit in the face was a career path, so my choice was clear.
truer words have never been spoken
@damsen978 so you can get hit in the face for longer.
Some people will tell you the best way to get good at games is to avoid getting hit.
These people are wrong.
The best way to get good at games is to know what hits you can survive, which hits your teammates can't, how to abuse I-frames in games with them, and how to quickly recover from a near-debilitating injury.
All the dodging in the world can't save you from an unlucky shot... but a whole lot of HP can.
People can say whatever they want about positioning and people being toxic, playing Tanks keeps me from aiming in shooters, and playing rhythm games in MMOs and MOBAs
This is me but with healing/support. I'm not going to stand in front, but I love figuring out how to be the best force multiplier and set my team up for success.
Fawful's Minion put it this way, " What makes playing Heavy fun? Being the clog in the enemy team's pipeline. Taking pride in protecting my team, and tearing babies to shreds." Heavy is basically an anchor in which you keep the frontlines from being pushed back, I've noticed that as soon as heavy goes down the group falls back, which gives the BLU team time to push forward.
Wouldn't it actually be sentry guns? If you fall back because the heavy died, that'd probably happen quite often as he gets stabbed by spies a lot.
Heavy does get the option to push the frontline forward to actively take ground from the enemy team. Sentries are more towards fallback options unless the engineer aggressively moves the sentry which needs time to setup.
Spy and Snipers being pick classes could easily remove both Heavies or Sentries themselves. I say it’s more of so them being possible threats to cripple teams.
@cameraman1191 A good sniper can shut down an area on their own and a good spy is hell to deal with.
Unless you're pyro lol@@fighter5583
I love Tanking, I love coordinating with other people. I also love not getting healed because I’m solo queued into a group of E-daters. I also love my team not following my orders.
"group of E-daters" LMAOOO
“following my orders” so you’re one of THOSE tanks
The tank is part of the team, not the leader
@@wabingusnothing pains more than
You wait for your teammates to group up, they come, you say youre going in, die in a second, and see your teammates do nothing
So tru
One of my favorite Tank-ish character for PVE games is the Gunner from Deep Rock Galactic. His low maneuverability is balanced by his shield. Pop it and you got a stall zone that edges out bugs, blocks enemy projectiles, and gives much needed breathing room in a pinch. No other class can save a team like the Gunner. Best part is that its just one tool in his kit- He still deals damage, has fun weapons, and chugs beers.
Fellow Gunner 🤝
Rock and stone, fellow gunner, rock and stone.
Rock and Stone, my comrade in heavy arms
There's a great point hear too. Newer players find gunner to be useless, not cos he is but at lower difficultys he never gets chance to flex his strength. With the right build he takes 75% less dmg from explosives... that means a bulk can't break his shield.
Maybe that's more of the way gaming should think about tanks, not giving up ground being valuable. All the love in the world to my gunner brethren, from a reckless engi
Also, if you don't rock and stone, you ain't coming home
@@Mightypi Very true. I think it can also come down to "burst" vs "sustain" designs. Without experience it can be tough to known when to put down a shield- it's on a decent cooldown and can be forgotten about it in the heat of a swarm. Its tougher to wrap a new player's head around.
This in contrast to the driller who is made to sustain control. Hold left click with your favorite primary weapon and you're slowing, burning, or freezing bugs to give your team room to breathe. Its not a panic button like the shield or freeze grenades but it's easier to understand when jumping in.
One thing to note - GOATS meta made tanks OP not because they could deal as much damage as the DPS, but because they would never die. If you look at some of the older matches from that time, fights would last forever, and you would have your ulti up on the first point because of the amount of manfighting and healing going on. Basically, the first team to get their ulti off would win the fight, and the matches were often determined by this. Having 3 healers made any kind of flanking DPS entirely unviable because they could all peel for each other.
It wasn't as much the tank that was an issue as Lucio and Bridgette were with AOE healing.
All the tanks were replacable, and there was even Sym goats and Sombra goats, however Lucio and Bridgette was VITAL as if you didn't have them, the whole comp fell apart. The tanks you ran were just whatever was best at that patch.
I hate to say it but that is what the devs thought at the time they always thought dps were weak and tanks were strong but turned out it was all about supports since the start
@@SnickMonster For sure, Lucio and Brig were absolutely vital to the comp. The thing is, both Lucio and Brig had very low healing output back then, and the 3rd healer would optimally be someone that can heal a lot like Ana, and she would be absolutely invincible with 3 tanks and 2 hard to catch supports peeling for her.
@@therealzizmon1748 for the majority of time 3rd healer was Zen, so your argument kinda falls apart. Brig was replaced by Bap later on and that worked just fine. Lucio was vital not because of AOE heal, but because of speed boost
@@therealzizmon1748 That was the second evolution of GOATs if I remember correctly. First form was Moira as the third healer, then came the Ana not because of her higher healing but for her nade. Last was Zen variant to round out the rock, paper, scissors of the comp. Ana beat Moira, Zen beat Ana, Moira beat Zen. Though the last wasn't that common because discord was still incredibly strong so usually became Zen mirror matches.
Tanks failure is usually also exacerbated by the teams failure. DPS playing dumb and not focusing, heals mis-prioritizing their targeting and cooldowns, etc. These are all team games and everyone has a role to play. Simply saying "tanks run everything" is just untrue. I have seen healers who can lead a group and the tank is just in the front. Healers and DPS have life saving cooldowns in almost every game. -Signed, a lifelong tank player in many games.
I will point out, that DPS can also have the issue of not really being able to focus, and if they try too much, they will be caught out, and that is why the front line needs to try and dictate the fight, and open up the space for the DPS to be able to do their focus rather safely.
@SioxerNikita or the dps can just play safe and not get caught out over extending
@@decidueyezealot8611 This could be true, but if the tank never pushes or always hunkering down (when they're supposed to be in the offensive) the DPS got frustrated that they cant attack. Tank is like some sort of "checkpoint" once the tanks stays there the team around them feels that it's safe to screw around near the tank. So the tank also need to know when to push and when to not, cause hunkering down forever (unless defending point ofc) won't do good
@@decidueyezealot8611 Yeah, you play a DPS and NEVER get caught over extending, especially when people complain you focus wrong...
@@SioxerNikita I just don't blame the tank for my own short coming ;) If you overextended that's on you my guy
The main 2 things i think that make people toxic towards tanks is its often much harder to quantify via a scoreboard or even notice a tanks impact mixed with the fact that in overwatch atleast if u have a serverly outmatched tank you lose the game no matter how weak or strong the role is. Space as a concept is so much more dynamic and complicated than people people realise. Often people dont understand where the space or opportunities are despite them being generated. Even good dps and supports players have scenarios there more used to and better know how to play. Tank in ow imo atleast is bassically finding/creating situations that give your team an advantage. If you team don't understand the advantages they are getting then obviously the egos gunna kick in
You know what they say
“A Tank making a great play goes unnoticed; a Tank making a mistake always gets noticed”
@@Verdugo_Arulaq i notice my tank making great plays more than bad plays
Back in my WoW Raid days, having a good experienced Tank or Healer was the most satisfying thing ever!
people people
You completely nailed it.
Something ive learned from Monster Hunter is that with great defense comes great offense. I love tanking in a bunch of different games (Such as Overwatch rest in peace), cause the incredible defense lets you get really into the opponents face and harrass them to no end
aw man monster hunter, im a greatsword main, i love rise cause they added the guarding tackle.
What I hear on reading this comment:
poke poke poke
counterthrust
poke poke poke
dooter main who mainly tanks for friends, imagine getting knocked down by a hunter who freestyle while you're in the ground.
I still remember the day we got Counterstrike gems, and were able to deal damage with well timed blocks.
And then abusing it with Gustcrabs.
Goats came because of heal creep, not tank dps. Before goats there were quad tank teams, but they were very situational
It also came because damage wise the tanks were just as good if not better than dps, so there was basically no reason to run them over characters who have way more health
Tank appeals to team players, and people who love a challenge, but aren't afraid to fail.
This makes tank the most attractive role for me.
As a tank, you get to be the massive Chunky bastard that makes the enemy team piss themselves in anger because you keep cock blocking their attacks, and that is enough for me
The low queue times in every single game was also a huuuge perk lol
As a tank its like have to take a risk of doing something stupid or innovative but hey at least you don't fear on getting killed.
But I am a solo player, who hates challenge and is afraid to fail, yet my favorite class is tank.
As a support main in almost every Game I just love all the Tanks, they're jobs are hard and often go unrecognized but I see you, you doing great, please keep it up.
I love supporting, especially myself.
Bless tanks and those who play them
May the power be on your side
Meanwhile healers are the most sadistic role in rpg game because a healer can just choose who wants to live or die
psst, quiet down. They can hear you
If the dps starts complaining they better believe they aint getting shit, especially on easier fights.
In a moba game like league. Or at worst. ML. The support class is the one that get shitted on more so than the tank.
The TF2 Medic is the embodiment of this
Quoting JSH "I am God." - healer
The toxicity part is mostly other people thinking they could do better as a tank in a party/raid setting, yet never do and just have their massive egos out. Literally all bark from healers and DPS, yet none of em would ever attempt tanking, because they know they would get embarrassed.
Tanking is relatively simple aslong you get the mechanics down that matter for you, eg. tank-swaps, picking up adds, CD usage and positioning, for most of these you need an "offtank" who does your job but is always secondary to you and does some funky mechanics while you tank a boss. Nothing is harder than picking up adds and positioning, people always bitch around that against you, yet all they do is just adjust while you actively set the mobs in the positions you and your lead want to.
To think the argument used to be the exact opposite with Healer's not that long ago, how Healer's used to get called "The easiest" because all they really needed to do is point at someone who's low and bring them up to full again, all 3 class types are extremely hard and they often require a specific field of knowledge to utilize them. Its sickening we have learned NOTHING from our years of abusing and talking doen on Healers...
@@Sulferlines it's always funny to see people shit on healers yet when they go healer they can't even keep their team alive. I've seen so many people including my own friends shit talk healers when they fail yet when they go healer the raids die early and in pvp games a lot of people simply think big healing numbers = good when in reality it's about who you keep alive in any given play.
It's sad how little people play team based games as teams and think that they can do no wrong. Each role requires a different approach within every play in both pvp and pve
@@reethardio6432 Yeah... At some point it's more dreadful to see people talk about the "holy trinity" of classes, especially when nearly no one actually knows what they're saying 2/3rd's of the time, none of the classes are actually "The most hated" or "the most misunderstood/underestimated" because no one understands the other classes as much as they actually think, I can give my experience as a TTRPG player as an example, I usually played tanks and DPS but they were "unique" because they used mechanics to avoid taking damage and waste the enemies resources rather than straight up tank it. Am I still a tank? By definition yes, I'm still making sure enemies target me and don't kill my party. Will people be able to take my build and handle it well? Not likely, every person has their own style and in many cases people have a bias against the class/system that favors a style they can't handle. The hate for healers and tanks is just an example of that...
In high level wow raiding tank is probably the easiest role to play _most of the time._ If you're a reasonably competent player, many mythic progress bosses are straight up boring to tank. You can often preplan the entire pull from start to finish to a very high degree and you usually have to stick to your routine and don't have the freedom to react to things happening and make plays the same way other roles can. Performing at top 1% level as a tank doesn't have the same impact as a top 1% healer or dps, just being on par with what the encounter requires is enough. On the other hand if you're playing at a lower level, tanking may seem like a relatively difficult job because you can't carry a subpar tank the same way you could the other roles - you always need a _good enough_ tank, a bad tank has a disproportionately huge negative impact on your success and I can see this leading to frustration and toxicity. There are exceptions of course, there are usually one or two "tank bosses" per tier where tanks have to perform, but most bosses are just routine for tanks. Regardless, tanking can still be rewarding. If you are a good, consistent, dependable tank, you know you are a indispensable asset to your team and they know it too.
Nah, the toxicity argument isn’t even an argument at all. I can count the ammount of times a random dungeon group kicked or even antagonized their tank in a serious way on one hand, and I’ve played wow for decades. You kick him-he will find new group instantly, while you will have to wait another 40 minutes for someone else to pick up the slack-it’s just not worth it in most cases. Not the same for dps.
So no, toxicity argument is just dumb, other roles get it way more than tanks.
As a Scorch/Legion main, tanking shots from every other titan so your Ronin can take the glory or a Northstar can survive is truly a bittersweet feeling.
Ocassionally though they become insane in their own right. I remember MVPing using them multiple times just by knowing what damage you can take and when to tunnel vision on taking someone down instead of supressing.
Yeah
Ronins are just too fragile
I wish the Ions would do more than just waste energy
what game is this?
@@MangaGamified titanfall 2.
The original, before apex cancelled the series
Fellow Scorch main, based
I feel it tho, I’ll fight up in someone’s face as long as the ronin or northstar can do their thing.
i think this role is just taken for granted a lot in MMO-RPG games, when ever you join a raid in wow for example you see the tank doing just fine so you assume that's how all tanks (and more often then not this is the case) are and you don't notice any thing wrong with the raid but when a new tank joins you immediately notice the difference between both tanks due to gear or the tank not knowing the fight.
Happend to me a lot, when my guild and I did a daily run and i got to dps everyone complain that it was going realy slow. Mind you, i was a prot warrior in wrath so i could and would dash to every pull in the dungeon, take them with my to the boss and tank them while tanking the boss.
It wasn't hard but the diference in experience and gear is masive, to that add the confidence that comes with knowing what you are doing and raids could go from 2 hours to 5 easily.
I think the problem with tank role as well is that you will also get blamed even when you tell your teammates to not engage yet, this happens a lot in HoTS where the tank dictates where the fight will go and yet some people will go with Jaina face checking bushes despite the ammount of warnings you tell them to not engage and focus on other stuff instead
HotS, as a whole, has a fairly braindead community, especially in quick play. Teams gets 0-1 tank per match, and then just die to a flanker like Tracer/Genji ganking them because no one wants to play safe. They all play for maximizing stats more than playing to win.
I'm not a tired Blaze main, I swear.
That's remind of a game in HoTS where i was doing a good job as Shen while one of our a dps (a Li Ming) was flaming me every time they died. One time I was going to engage a teamfight and then Li Ming teleported in the middle of the enemy team and obviously got killed (and once again it was my fault for that).
Maaaan tank role in a PvP is a different beast entirely. I love being tank in PvE but would not touch it PvP. You get all the tank frustrations on repeat, every few minutes.
Should have played DotA 2 instead...
And when you do decide the pace, people don't even follow up properly sometimes.
Like, look here team I've got 3 people locked in a 3 second stun maybe you want to deal some damage on that? And they're off to the side chasing someone just running away.
Also when you peel for a disengage people always think it's an engage.
It's depends on the game and your team. Some games make playing tank really fun and others just make it feel like a chore
I actually learned that while DPS is usually more engaging, it’s the tank privilege of not getting obliterated at the bosses sneeze that not only is fun but I like the idea of protecting my teammates
Like go off my dudes, I’ll yell at the bosses face, you clap them positional cheeks
A quote from Reinhardt has always stuck with me and motivated me: I will be your shield. The idea of being the huge motherfucker jumping into the line of fire to protect their squishies has always been so appealing to me.
@@adumbchicken8022
As tank players, we have been called and we must answer
@@adumbchicken8022stand behind Braum!
man I feel like the tank role is underrated, the ability to take the brunt and hold a line will always be more satisfying than just moving around dealing damage or healing people.
When I used to tank in WoW, which I enjoyed, it got expensive (in game) quick. Plate armor was more expensive to repair and tanks don’t have any disengage abilities like Feign Death for Hunters or Vanish for Rogues to name a few examples. And of course the flaming and toxicity when it was a wipe since it’s easy to blame the tank since it’s all eyes on them. If it was successful we get no thanks at all and the DPS just link their dps and get praised lol.
As healer in WoW, I want to thanks you, and all others tanks.
Thanks for taking lead most of the time, and keeping my squishy ass alive too.
i think nowadays DPS is the most "hated" class imo. People now realize that DPS are considered the braind dead class of most game (well unless it's a hard class/job to play) and they're pretty much everywhere. Go ahead create a party, it's always LF tank/heal, rarely LF DPS. So most people has somewhat respect to those 2 role
I would never notice the quality of the DPS, but good or bad Healers would make the experience night and day. Unless its a Raid, an experienced Healer would absolutely lead and carry us through any dungeon.
@@istheworldreal I mean... Don't get this the wrong way, but DPS are usually expendable. I say usually, because a good DPS player is a dream. Really, when you find that guy, that can control his aggro, but can go all out when needed, and know when to actually use their support abilities, it's amazing.
Love seeing "Tank Diff" from supports after every game in ow
they act like their job isn't keeping the mf alive
@@devilleknievel2144you can't generalize an entire roles job. Sure, supports have to keep in check on the tank but thats not all. Mercy for example is a pocket and should barely ever play with a tank.
@@devilleknievel2144 My job isn't to babysit you as if we also don't get flanked and have to heal OTHER people. You want your heals? Peel for the supports and push against the enemy team.
@@KalleDemos666 both at the same time right
@@KalleDemos666 with so much damage and utility creep nowadays tank has become a cosmetic role. most games now are just support diffs.
I am a tank main on overwatch 2, and I am constantly blamed for doing my job. My job is not to kill everything, tank all the damage, make space and carry the game, but that tends to happen. Some of these things are the tank's job, but not entirely damage. Very few games have I gotten useful dps even in diamond, and I am the one who is blamed for things not dying??? Why is that? People can miss all of their shots, just shoot their tank all game, adn clean up when I get the picks for them. and they get away for free??!!!
I flex in OW1, but When solo q, sometimes have to play tank(most of the time). I love when Forever Bronze DPS bragging about his Damage Gold when all he did is shoot at barrier(Rein/Wins/Orisa), not put pressure on healer and not protect healer that stand beside him.
When lose, instant blame everyone except themself.
For example In LoL it's so good when I play a support role tank or enchanted and my team mate blame me for anything. If I'm 0/4/20 it's bad BCS I'm 0/4 tho it doesn't matter I have 20 assists but the moment I accidentally take a kill then I'm stealing their kill's.
I'm thinking of the silver Genji/Mcree/Hanzo who shoot the Roadhog all match, end up with 10k damage and 4-10 e/d and then blame the tank and heals while bragging about their damage.
ow 2 tank is just a dps with more hp. game is shit zz
I mean tanks in overwatch 2 are pretty overpowered. Going from 6v6 to 5v5 was not great from a balancing perspective.
Great video
I main tank on Overwatch, climbed all the way up to grand master, even played a LAN as a tank. Always felt like it was the « least rewarding », the line « if you do it right, it'll seem like you did nothing » is SO so true
Playing with friends tho, or people listening, coordoning fights and all. There were fights where I felt like a commander or something and it felt so nice, I had eyes everywhere, feeling like a maestro of the battlefield balancing between offense and defense.
The tank role is just so, so under appreciated. I think it's because it's easy to hate on it that I've been drawned to it. Like « Someone's got to do it, and I'm going to do it right »
if people dont notice when tanks do well they have really bad awareness because its really obvious when they do well
It took me a little while (and a few games played), but I eventually settled into and enjoyed the role of the Tank.
While healers may find themselves getting that dopamine hit from being the fulcrum between life and death, and DPS get happy juices from seeing big damage numbers, there's nothing more satisfying to me than taking a direct hit from a god-like being that would delete someone else-and yet still be alive
A few things:
1. Heavy is just as unpopular in TF2 as tanks are in every other game
2. A Tank is often defined by their high defense and CC, but low damage, but that's not necessarily the case. The former and ideal philosophy on Overwatch tanks is that they have high damage, durability, and the only ones with reliable CC, but they lack range, mobility, or has very clear windows of weakness, like Roadhog.
3. Something not mentioned here is CC. No one likes to lose control of their character, but as a Tank, you're the primary target for that CC, adding another reason that Tanks are unpopular
heavy's unpopular for a different reason than most tanks. Its more because he's very mechanically linear than any inherent "tank" reason. He just isnt as mechanically varied with tech nor has near as many viable playstyles as most classes. His only subclass is badly weak melee build and people unironically try to argue that just using a shotgun, a literal stock weapon he just has from the start, is a subclass for him because of how little he has to do. Its not a tank issue with heavy, its a "he is way too linear" problem of him just literally doing one thing for the most part.
@@isaacargesmith8217 The biggest issue, IMO, is that he's slow. Being slow is the #1 way to get your ass handed to you, and Heavy is SLOW
Heavy's more of a danger tank or a fighting game heavyweight: If an enemy carelessly approaches, they die.
If you play Heavy, there's not much anyone can do to you in an honest one-on-one fight because of his terrifying damage...But good luck getting one of those to begin with
Honestly pyro is more hated and he’s more of a generalist
tank dont wanna be CC either. good fights/game mechanics will have healers and dps cced more with ways to stop/undo/prevent them.
This video made me feel a little better about having put so much tank into playing Tank in OW1 and OW2. I'll remind myself this next time I get blamed for something that wasn't my fault or not playing to the best of my ability at all times.
I think what makes Heavy such a good Tank are the weapons he is given to slightly change him up.
Despite his slow speed the Shotguns allow him to be mobile without having to rev up his Minigun picking off nuisance classes.
Not talking about the Buffalo Steak Sandvich, his Lunchbox items give him much needed sustainability and survivability.
Some of his Melees, namely the FoS and GRU give him some type of utility to shave some of his downsides.
Usually with his Miniguns, is just picking your favorite one for the right situation imo, even the Brass Beast has its uses
Compared to most Tank classes, he isn't as much of a sitting duck like he is made our to be.
I know people say the Heavy is a stale class, but there are still some fun Loadout ideas to try with him
i wish they'd buff buffalo steak sadvich for a boxer heavy subclass though. (and a melee focused primary but we're never getting new weapons lmao)
a melee subclass to rival demoknight
chocolate bar with fists of steel makes heavy a good cart pusher. brass beast is really good with the chocolate too
Heavy's a force to be reckoned with even without a team, if you aren't a sniper on the other side of the map or Soldier/Demo who can deal splash damage from around the corner you'll get shredded by him.
Unironically the Brass Beast is a force to be reckoned with when you have a competent and coordinated team to back you up (NOT a sweaty team, just a decent one). Not just a pocket medic, not just a sniper buddy, real teamwork and cooperation. It's unbelievably satisfying to plow through an annoying choke point with a squad backing you up. Get a good demo/soldier for sentries, a scout/pyro for recon and ambush protection, and a medic to keep all of you alive, and suddenly everyone starts respecting the brass beast.
And yeah, you could accomplish something similar with the other miniguns, but the extra DPS and damage reduction keeps you in the fight for way longer, and creates a situation where your team treats you kind of like a payload cart; if they stick around you, and keep the enemies off of you, they'll have much better odds than just going solo.
Heavy is fun so long as you actually get to play as heavy and not get 1 shot by that one spy that seems dead set on always backstabbing you no matter what the actual fuck happens
It was a good point to note some of the massive knowledge gap required to tank well. And yeah, the burden to perform if pretty high in pug runs.
I didn't know I'd fall in love with it as hard as I have, but tanking in FFXIV has been the most fun I've had with the game by far
nothing has made me feel like the protagonist more than playing paladin
I love tanking in FFXIV!
ffxiv classes have very little agency except for the tank who has little agency, its my favorite too
Easily the worst role in the game bar none. ALL of them play the same. Every tank has 1-2-3 combo, 100 energy bar, and 50 energy skill that they use to not go over cap. Some have shields, some have mit, some have healing, but in the same proportions, and on practically identical CDs, so you can plan out the fight so your 40%s and Invuls are ready for a tank busters.
Snore fest
@@max7971You’re entitled to your opinion, but I just hit 9 Fell Cleaves in a row followed by a Monkey Flip while healing the rest of my team after the healer went down and having fun here.
Hardest to play well, but can also be most rewarding
I really liked tanking in the MOBA Smite. Typically the support in the duo lane was also the tank. In the first five minutes they’d stay with the ADC, but after that they’d roam and also support the jungler and mid. They’d build into mostly defense items and make up for the lack of damage with heavy cc abilities. Solo laners would also frequently be fairly tanky.
I love playing support Sylvanis and screwing with the enemy with all the CC or going a bruiser build with someone like bachus to set up a nice ambush or break formations.
Smite is a weird one though seeing as it doesn’t really fit the ‘holy trinity’ bill since there is no healer role after all Tanks are literally called supports in Smite. Though I will echo your sentiment, I love tanking… from the back line that is.
I loved playing Zarya in overwatch. Getting clutch shield bubbles to advance/stop a push is immensely satisfying
That’s more of a hesler mechanic on a tank chassis tho.
@@max7971 shielding is a very tank mechanic
she is straight up the most boring basic tank of them all. Laser, bubble, laser, bubble. You could say the same with pretty much any character with a shield or extra HP
@@destiny_5540 giving someone a shield that essentially gives them temporary health is a very healer mechanic.
making a shield that is either stationary or follows the caster which absorbs damage is a very tank mechanic.
I liked playing rein in ow1 n getting zarya as the second tank is always fun coz i get to charge into enemies more hehehe
In a overwatch match, we lost 1st point and nobody had a single kill on the board, yet they blamed only me, the tank. We won the game btw
Weird because as a support main I'm the one blamed over tank I find in gm lobbys
@@domicci4460weird. As a genji main in diamond I get blamed 10x more than a mispositioned tank
@RadialSeeker113 ya I also play genji at master 1 and rarly ever blamed
@@RadialSeeker113 I play mostly at diamond and masters. probably people are pissed at you become you're not running the meta, and you're actually being happy playing genji. I didn't reach GM myself, but having friends from top 500, it gets better around GM where one tricking is more common, so a lot of the time, they kinda just go: this guy must know what he's doing, whatever
@@domicci4460 this is probably because GMs know the power supports have
low level players blame DPS because nobody is dying, regardless of how much space or time you got. mid level players blame tanks because they're "not making space" even though nobody pushes with the tank, and only start attacking after the tank is half health. high level players know positioning and trust a bit more on the supports to do their job and apply their utility correctly
being the ranks that know how to use a suzu or anti nades at it's peak, many pushes rely on utility to start, and supports hold a lot of utility
it's just a hypothesis, I'm just an ex ranked masters that today just plays casual because I wanna be happy, not to have an ego badge om my account
Playing heavy and knowing the team succeeded because of your skill and coordination is just an unparalleled feeling.
Same I can say about playing Engineer. The fact that your teleporter won the game is just something else
I've been yelled at and even left by heavily-geared healers that complain that I am too slow and am not pulling fast enough to the point where they will sometimes actively start pulling mobs if I don't do so myself.
In moba the problem is either they are turbo busted dealing bilion damage whiel soaking bilion damage, or they are soaking wet paper that cant do anything, and never in between.
conquest dota is designed around snobwalling. lvl adventage. 2-3 lvl difference is huge. also most people dont counterbuild
@@GamingDualities anyway here me building Tara's and bm with 2 lv disadvantage pb, good luck kill that mother fucker, as I said either turbo busted or nothing, and never in between
I think the reason is break points
Either you win or you lose...
Either you get the kill, or you die...
@@Monkchelle_Kongbama now the problem is where is the break point and find it, like it's doesn't matter the team losing , if a tank is busted it's gonna be painful experience for everyone who not picking tank and when they weak everyone who pick tank will be on painful experience because they can't do shit, I been on MOBA space almost my entire life and I never once find a single patch where tank feel balance, or close to the break point where they can soak enough damage while doing ramping up damage because they live long enough and dealing good amount damage.
It always boils down into they too tanky and still able to burst you down with one rotation, or they don't do anything because they get burst down by everyone.
@@vo1ce147 I don't think you can.
Tank's don't really poke, they exist in an all in playstyle. The point of a tank is not to die. So when a tank doesn't die, they automatically get to impact a fight longer.
I don't think anyone could reasonably find a damage value for a tank to not either be useless or too valuable...
and arguably CC is more infuriating and another can of worms.
in shooting games the most hated role is the sniper.
I love playing Alistar or Naut support, because at full build im almost unkillable not doing any damage, but casually strolling through them and stunning or rooting them.
this.yes.
if only more tanks were like this without dealing absurd damage or crumpling like tissue.
just give us more survivability riot.
Tahm kench builds full tank and still finds a way to delete me in 2 seconds
@@JDReC100 Erm... The reason why tanks can crumple is because there is counter builds, counter characters, etc.
But most tanks can both be built with damage, or survivability.
Someone like Tahm can be absurdly defensive, and deal decent damage as well, but if he is kited he is absolutely utterly useless in terms of damage, and for that matter CC. He is a "damage tank", Ornn is kind of in the same boat. His CC is relatively easy to counter, but he makes up for that with good bursts of damage if you land it, along with a heavily telegraphed major stun.
You are right now acting exactly like the DPS complaining about the Tank, but towards the developers and the balance team instead. If it is so easy to just make survivable tanks that CCs, that also has enough impact on the game that they are worth attacking (otherwise, there is no point in the tank), do it yourself? If all the tanks are just running around stunning/rooting/etc. then you suddenly have the issue that only few tanks will be played, because... well... the only thing they really contribute to the fight is stunning/rooting/etc, and you are only going to pick the "best in slot" for that.
Right now you have Alistair who actually has a competent heal passive heal on top of his CC, he has unique ways to approach the CC, and so does Naut and Leona, but you also have Nasus, who has ridiculously little CC, but unless he is dealt with, he can eat your team alive if you don't keep him away. You have someone like Tahm that might not look like he does much in the start of the fight, but suddenly he is capable of dealing quite significant amount of damage over time, while supplying stuns/slows and self-heals and shields to stay alive while doing so. Or you have someone like Sion, who if killed first can end up hurting your team more in the long run, because of his passive, and can get some pick offs while focused, etc. etc. etc.
But all of these tanks can be countered by Attack Speed ADCs, with BoRK and Lord Dominik's Regard, and that is where you should rely on your assassin to help pick off that ADC, etc.
You are taking this very varied and rather complex issue of tanks and boiling it down to nothing. Almost none of the tanks deal "absurd damage", their time to kill, even on ADCs is slower than essentially every other class in the game, but they can survive while dealing that damage, if built right, and played right.
@@potatolord5774 I know that is bullshit, I have mained Tahm, and the time to kill is often 3-4 seconds, requires me to be next to a non-mobile squishy, and not having anyone peel for them.
If Tahm had no damage though, he'd be utterly useless, as he has little utility. Don't get caught out by a Tahm, someone like Lucian can eat Tahm alive with just BoRK and Lord Dominik's Regard, where if he can dodge my Q, I have very little recourse for handling him.
@@SioxerNikita whenever i play against him in top it feels ridiculous how much damage he does for only having merc treads and bamis or something
5:42 “They trade their defense for offense.”
The biggest issue with GOATS was AOE Healing not tanks
it was def the tanks..... all that AOE healing wouldn't matter if still squishy
me in hell let loose when I full auto the enemy spawn for 10 minutes straight with the Panzer II
I used to play a lot of tank in Overwatch 1 but stopped a while before Overwatch 2 because I just enjoyed damage more. It felt like I was doing a lot more and I got to see more improvement. Getting back into tank has been enjoyable but the reliance on a good support is the worst part about it. You either have big dps or damage sponge that gets to do nothing
>be rein, enemy tank also rein
>peel for my dps and support, focus the junkrat which is kicking my teams butt and kill him start of each fight
>use shield when needed and pressure enemy supports so my dps can take them or tank out
>get a 5 man ult wiping the enemy
>somehow lose
>most damage done (as much as my two dps combined), most damage mitigated , most elimination
>my kiriko: tank diff
that sums up the tank experience
If that seriously happened to you, I- I don't know what to say except that I'm sorry on behalf of humanity.
As someone who has gone through military service and have a brother who's an actual tank commander, tank is such a dumb sounding term. The person who came up with the term probably don't know what the job of tanks are in real world combat.
A tank is supposed to be shock and awe, meaning enemies run away from them and they destroy things, the exact opposite of drawing enemy attention and doing less damage in general.
That's actually not entirely far away from game tanks at all. I play a few games where tanks in general are supportive through their presence alone.
Their existence forces the enemies to play differently or be pummeled. Tanks, per design, ARE shock and awe just like real ones.
Pretty sure Supports are the most hated role not tanks. Being an immovable wall that may not 1 shot but still feels like a raid boss to take down is satisfying. Being the teams mule who carries all their stuff with no recognition is the sad part
i love being a tank main! i’m pretty good when it comes to gaming not because i’m naturally talented or anything but because i genuinely love to put the time and effort to get good at whichever game im playing at the time i usually end up having to abandon the role later on because of one of two things 1.either im better than the dps i keep coming across or 2 and this is the main main reason. tanks just get blamed for a lot of things and or they go unappreciated and it sucks lmao only tank mains can look at another tank main and really appreciate their skill
Watching this an a tank for DC Universe Online after having just took literally billions worth of damage
One way to get around the problem of tanks is a skirmisher role, like in splatoon. Weapons like the Tetra Dualies and the Splata Wiper have amazing movement and draw fire by having the ability to easily disengage while still being threatening. This is a really fun and cool play style.
I believe you're thinking of the "Off Tank." In Paladins, they're the ones who duel flankers, plunge into the backline, and have threat to pressure the enemy team from pushing while the main tank focuses on the main objective.
I main Wrecking Ball in Overwatch 2 and the amount of shit you get from team-mates is ridiculous, just for picking him. And then I get told to switch tank, and I’m even worse than I am with Ball if I do, but get loads of grief if I don’t. It’s such a shame it’s like this because Wrecking Ball is a pretty unique character and really engaging to play, but I’m scared to use him because of the backlash I get if I don’t play perfectly or if the team doesn’t win.
Ironically in Pokemon unite, people are usually the happiest when they see team mates that are tanks because tank players usually know to play basic and safe versus all the terrible speedsters or offensive bass characters who rip apart like paper when they rush In recklessly.
_nods head_
I mained Blastoise and I can't tell you the amont of times I saved teammates who was trying to flee from a losing fight by using the various knockback moves, giving the teammate some much needed distance and be able to safely retreat into side of the map.
Braum is the best boy.
And tanking in league doesn’t get you ask much flak. Because everyone is busy berating the jungle.
DPS players just want zero responsibility, all they do is just press buttons and get pampered by the other players
Toxic
At the same time, tanks expect to be pocketed at all times yet they never really fully commit to their job and this is coming from another tank player.
nah, not really@@KalleDemos666
i kinda agree most dmg players are just people that want to weasel their way out of more responsible roles
To be fair dps is an accessory role in games like overwatch, they’re important and have a lot of responsibilities if they’re the main damage and support/tank can’t out damage them
I knew Overwatch was gonna get a big mention in this with all the recent complaints about the tank role.
This is why I like dota's approach. You don't have a dedicated tank role, it's just that some heroes have kits and item combinations that allow them to frontline. This just means that they are the first to go in when pushing objectives, and this means that characters that traditionally wouldn't be tanks in other games, can in fact frontline. A good example would be Gyrocopter when played as a carry. Despite being a ranged hero that is dependent on ability cooldowns, he can build items that give attack damage and health such as Satanic and Black King's Bar which allow him to walk in front of his team and push objectives such as towers.
Then they are no longer tank but fighter. Dota doesn't have traditional tank because tanks doesn't work in pvp. If you give them no damage, they get ignore, if you give them damage they become fighter.
@@dieptrieu6564 That's exactly why I said "frontline" and not "tank".
@@therealzizmon1748 I'd go so far to say that dota isn't alone in this. Every single pvp games out there doesn't have tanks. It's all fighters.
@@dieptrieu6564 Most tanks in League when building tank items are actual tanks. Maokai, rammus, sion ... But yea in most pvp games, the best defense is offense, you dont need to soak dmg when theres no dmg to soak
@@MefoWho Lmao, no. These tanks have enough damage to murder the squishy champ. Otherwise everyone would just ignore them. That have been the balance problem in league since forever
7:06 no way you guys showed impregnator gragas LMAO
I like tanking in FF14 because I have fast Que times and I can lead the party along with my pace or I can speed things up if they can handle it it lets me coordinate a lot better than anything most people like
MC syndrome right here
Without watching, and as a long loooong time tank/healer player, I feel like DPS are easily the most hated between the three. Not only that, but I feel like the hatred only grows as you branch into more specific kinds of DPS like DOT heavy DPS or Control DPS like warlock or frost mage from WoW respectively. In my experience, tanks also get the benefit of often being the IGL, so not only do I feel like they usually avoid a lot of the toxicity/hate, but they’re actually usually the ones dishing it out. As an aside, pure/predominant buffers are easily the most loved role in games. They avoid the hate targeted at the pure healers for messing up heal prio, and they usually also have over time heals which people usually have no idea how to criticize.
It's a thankless job, but somebody has to take up the mantle
I do admit that the tank role does suck, but I personally never really got people to be toxic to me. Likely because I always would use the argument of, my job is to eat damage to keep your squishy ass safe, not listen to you blame me for the lack of damage you bring.
One of my favorite experiences in all of gaming is tanking 5 man dungeons in classic wow. And not even with friends specifically, randos are fine. Let's get lost exploring the depths of BRD together, friends!
On top of all of this is because that in games like FFXIV and LoL, tanking is known as a very, if not the most easy class in the game. For LoL, often you are essentially sacrificing your autonomy for skillful plays to give the rest of your team breathing room. Not only is this playstyle not appealing to many players, it also brings with it less respect from other players since you're actively putting the spotlight on somebody else instead of yourself. Not to mention how the person you put the spotlight on can just trip over themselves and ruin the setup you give them
I could say the same for healers.. no one wants to be the healer who don't do high damage and gets lots of kills.
I would even say that Healer is even less popular then tanks.. thanks to the fact that most tanks in games can still do good damage, while healers don't do damage.
In conclusion.. Both healers and tanks need to get more positive encouragement from the rest of the players.. as both those roles are extremely stressful and hard to do. compared to dps.
so basically, fuck DPS
I usually love to play frontline and tanky characters as I used to be a Nasus OTP and I play Tanks for my friends in WoW. I love to coordinate with my friends and do the challenges together.
It is the random players out there that I don't want to tank for.
As a main healer in ffxiv i always try to have because I know how hard that role is... And because tank and healers live in symbiosis, but besides that is because I deeply appreciate our chunky big-hearted carries. Please never change tanks ❤
"Healers" can be even more generalized somehow into "support", which also includes stacking buffs
Rip OW tanking. Rein zarya and double bubble were the best times😢
Would’ve been ironic if this video was sponsored by World of Tanks.
I enjoyed playing tank in normal raids when I was active FFXIV years ago but I never did the impossible runs. Maybe my opinion will change if I did do the endgame challenges at the highest difficulty. Then again I normally picked 3 jobs and learn them to the best of my abilities. One tank, one dps, and one healer. When I quit I was Paladin, Monk, and White Mage. This was back in 2015 though.
Haha, normal raids? Ofc you liked it, it’s impossible to fail them as a tank, and Que times are low.
@@max7971now imagine tanks in savage and ultimate raids.
Suddenly there's more to "smacking boss, pop mitigations" 🙃
(I mean, I don't think people care to do swaps in normal raids in the first place even though sometimes there are in fact swap mechanics, it's so brute-forcey lol)
As somebody who blatantly mains the definitive Mighty Glacier/Melee Tornado hybrid in Kid Icarus Uprising and and prefers to use armor-based loadouts in general, I can provide my 2 cents, especially since I have some additional stuff to say after seeing Vars III's video about Olimar, which actually came out shortly after this, and even though he's not somebody who would be looking for heavy armor, do I have something to say about HIM.
First off, the most important subject to cover is about the aspect of risk-reward. A lot of people end up with doubts about using options with obvious risks, and they understand the reasons for wanting speed over power that were brought up by Goku in Dragon Ball Z in one of his more bright moments. I can point out that Goku in that same moment understood that having power to back up the individual attacks was still going to be needed, hence the "Super Saiyan weight training" as I'm calling what he and Gohan went with. And the weight training analogy definitely helps, as when YOU can conceivably avoid needing to have active thought when throwing out superpowered moves with obvious punishable drawback, the opponent will be less able to know when to expect those superpowered moves. Even so, not everybody is going to be going with this idea, but the good news is that secondary purposes is a useful concept, because armor guys can themselves be smart against those risk-reward methods, so more natural reasons to use them would help in smokescreening them.
In that regard, we want anti-armor methods that are well-designed. Anti-armor would be things that would be good for punching through armor, obviously with heightened risk-reward as highlighted above. There is no hard limit on what can be anti-armor; it can be long range, like Pac-Man's Fire Hydrant in Smash Bros, or it can be subtle, like the Power "Power Thief" in Kid Icarus Uprising. The important thing is for the risk factor to be clear as day to allow for the armor guys to challenge the methods directly to grant active interaction. I can even cite about an enemy type example in Kingdom Rush that punctuates the importance of variety with anti-armor: Dark Knights, who have their description include them being "almost impervious to damage", yet there's plenty of anti-armor methods to damage them efficiently enough, and you just have to put in the work to make the most of them.
There is also the added point about melee combat. Melee combat is not passive DPS on its own unless your character has the mobility to set it up reliably or the opponent can't work with distance opening for whatever reason, because most locations aren't going to be next to the opponent. And even when melee combat IS managed, you're right there to potentially eat the opponent's counterattack for good measure. Melee combat tends to get compensating benefits as a result. That can be used to bolster the tank, not only as reason to have their durability, but also to even challenge the tank head-on at key moments. Recovery of Mana or a similar resource has been a popular incentive nowadays in game design, and you know it works when Metroid Samus Returns has the player actually consider the Melee Counter against mooks to reasonable effect even when they get the Plasma Beam and Screw Attack for casually melting mooks to get straight to battling the bosses. The whole notion invites skill incentive to retain damage output.
Something that does help is cost-effectiveness for risky gameplay. The Power known as Counter, which is an Armor Power, already involves that, and while its design could stand a little more depth for less selective capability, when it works, it works. I can also mention that I actually tried out a more standard mage-style Power loadout for the aforementioned Mighty Glacier/Melee Tornado hybrid a few months back, and while it IS playable, I definitely had moments of missing the mobility that was granted to me by Power Grid space saving. By the way, that Power Grid space that isn't going to defenses? I'm primarily using it to abruptly tag people, and Black Hole has the added convenience that Energy Charge immediately guarantees BH's usefulness regardless of setup even if BH is primarily supposed to save on passive combat involvement.
Oh, and yes, in case you didn't see the implication, Kid Icarus Uprising ties durability efficiency to the use of activation abilities while still making it clear and present regardless. That's a very sound approach by making the tank's combat significantly more involved.
I can point out that people missing these points is what undermines Olimar in Smash Bros., because they turn him into a Pikmin Throw spammer and get him a "why nobody plays" video for that. That is Smash's fault for not making Pikmin maturity stages matter, which would incentivize using melee attacks, especially the aerials, as damage dealing moves that avoid risking the Pikmin's lives and thus allow Olimar to get increasingly stronger when not projectile camping. His concept is the sort of character we want to indirectly bolster, a Squishy Wizard who doubles as a case of A Father To His Men. Not some coward who sacrifices his loyal helpers to some dark God who will inevitably be fickle.
Suffice to say that our armor people just need to have engaging gameplay and we can see our mages equally benefit indirectly without becoming polarizing.
Lets get this out the way goats was only a thing because of brig. You remove brig and the comp fell. Tanks werent doing damage they were just not dying in the fight due to all the AOE healing that brig provided.
Brig was the huge problem of her own and made everything worse, but for goats she was not the root cause imo. Like, slambulance emerged before her, and later on SF Shock replaced Brig with Bap when he came out and it (arguably) worked even better
@@forshtreter^^
If I recall she really enabled it by by the end she kinda wasnt really run in it by being optimized out of it. I actully think lucio shares a lot of the blame for it since he helped enable it usin his speed. Supports in general have a habit of breaking the meta tho.
If you can't see the inherent value of 3 supports and 3 tanks without Brig, you're coping lmao. How is a DPS supposed to kill a support when there are two other supports that peel and heal each other? Brig or not, a Tracer wasn't gonna be able to go in and get an Anna when she's sat next to two other supports and shield hoping between two different shields.
For anyone who feels like arguing, Brig could out-damage a Rein at launch
I love being the healer having control over who lives is so much fun. Like dps talking too much trash just "accidentally" run out of mana. Tank not being tanky enough make the dps sub in and pray that you have enough to get through it.
I don't know why, but Heavys from TF2 and Ogryns from Warhammer 40K : Darktide are like the two peak standards for tanks being seen positively for me. It could just be the characters themselves and the people who play them being more respectful and enjoyable to interact with. It could be the fact that both characters aren't in extremely competitive games such as Overwatch, therefore the toxicity is a lot less of an issue for me regarding the tanks. Obviously there will be times where people are toxic enough to look past all of that and instead berate Ogryns or Heavys because they didn't simply stick with the team or take out a dangerous threat that they could have killed. But despite some critical mistakes players make on those two characters, I still have respect and admiration for the people who choose to play as the Heavy or an Ogryn, and their always fun to play with in their respective games, on top of being well balanced no matter the circumstances that a match can have in it.
Tank either has 2 sides in gaming. babysitting or being a one man army
Now the next video needs to be… “why healer/support is the most blamed role for a loss in gaming”.. lol
More like why some of y'all have the biggest superiority and victim complex at the same time...
@@reio4641
I have no horse in this race since I tend to jump around all roles, but man tank mains are just as whiny. All you have to do is hold agro and y'all act like it's super hard and complex. Healing and tanking are both easy. Unless you're talking about Overwatch specifically. Then yeah, Supports are crazy annoying in that game compared to any other role.
"All you had to do was to just burst those enemies down!"
"All you had to do was to just click on players and heal them!"
"All you had to do was to just draw aggro away from the team!"
I don't know how to actually do damage or build characters so I pick tank and just get the stuff that makes me die slower
The Heavy in TF2 isn't balanced because of his kit, he's balanced because nobody in TF2 has utility. Everything is purely based around movement and the type of weapon they carry. Overwatch devolved into GOATS primarily because supports have insane utility, not because tanks are beefy. It naturally followed that tanks which also have utility and the best ults in the game would pair best with them. Durability is less important than their utility and ults. All their durability did was extend fights but those were determined by ult economy anyways. Reduce tank HP to be more in line with DPS and there would still be the same problem.
The DPS role in Overwatch, like TF2 characters, has the simplest designs and carry almost no utility. If TF2 added heroes with utility then the idea of what is optimal in that game would change very quickly. Utility in Overwatch is what makes the game interesting though. Removing utility in order to make it more like TF2 would be like stripping away all of the abilities that make DOTA interesting and balancing on a flat axis of just movement and damage.
As much as I love healing and supporting, tanking in League is still fun if I'm doing it as a tank support.
I personally find tanks bit boring to play
yup , just don't be a dick to people that do like it for messing up lol . I don't mind it so do it to help friends out
@@egbert5871 let's goo duuudee
as a tank player. a lot of the time i go into a random game expecting to carry because if i dont there's no guarantee we can win. even while being on the top of the leaderboard or even having blocked the most amount of damage in for example overwatch it can still get toxic. but when you protect everyone and youre unstoppable as a team its the best feeling knowing you tanked everything and kept pushing forward.
I like Tanking for a chill and competent group.. unfortunately finding a group that's Both is incredibly difficult... Their either too serious or not serious enough
As a tank main since forever, it enhance my mentality because i was to blame for everything
Id loke to eventually look at tanking in FFXIV since tank is usually my best role. Any tips on avoiding toxicity? I'm a pretty empathetic persona and don't want to cause trouble for anyone.
There is no toxicity in FFXIV, and tanking is REALLY easy
Tank is the easiest role in FFXIV right now. Just press tank stance and you'll keep aggro 99% of the time. Nobody will question you if you say you are a new tank player. At lvl 15 you have basic AoE, ranged pull button, mits, everything you need in dungeons. There is a problem if you are trying gunbreaker. They start at lvl 60, in 60-70 content tanks are expected to know the basics at least. But I started tanking as GNB, just pressed buttons on a dummy, got a feel of the rotation, tested my limits in some dungeons, and I am a tank main ever since. The only advice I can give you is don't be afraid of pulling wall to wall. Cycling mitigation buttons easily helps you survive all pulls if healer doesn't spam Cure 1 and whine every time you pull "too much". There is a couple of dungeons where you are not advised to do that (e.g. Stone Vigil) without a good party, but that exists only in ARR and those dungeons are cursed anyway. Don't overstack %dmg mits tho, there is diminishing returns. In normal content you are less punished by mistakes than DPS, especially ranged phys. You will facecheck mechanics, eat Vuln Ups like a champ and demand more. Just get into it, it's a lot more chill than you think.
Prot Pally Tank here, from back in the day. I loved it, but I also had a close group of dungeon/raiding friends and we actually took the time to learn it together. After a wipe we'd all put our heads together to figure out what went wrong, and we got really far as a team back when we played. I also find Tanking in Heroes of the Storm to be pretty well balanced, just in that Tanks might not ever top the overall damage lists, and they may not be the ones getting the Killing Blow, but they still contribute to the fights. Stitches getting an awesome hook and setting up a great team fight is still super rewarding, even if Stitches himself isn't getting the KBs.
I love playing tank. Since in Overwatch its usually the tank that leads the team to win, if you know how to counter-pick and tank diff the other tank, it'll become a breeze to play. And if people aren't healing you, YOU RUN THEM OVER WITH HOG.
then they pick ana and you are a wet paper towel of a character...
What I like about the tank system in League is mostly map pressure. Sometimes you might not have damage to kill the enemy, but the enemy also has no damage to kill you (at least if it's only one enemy). This draws a lot of attention and as the map is so much bigger than most other pvp, this is a very effective strategy.
Here soo people cant say first
Not all heroes wear capes
Honestly, the "don't waste my time" argument in an EM-EM-OH game of all places is just absurd.
You should make a video on the psychology behind it. Typically, I call it a good time to take a break from the game if you resort to this 'excuse'.
I only play ff14 with these roles but when I started I only played dps. I steered away from tanks because of "tankxiety". But I managed to get over it with practice and now I maxxed out all the tank classes and love to play dark knight and gunbreaker. I've still never played healer though lmao.
Dont know if you've ever played a hero shooter game but there its always healers that get flamed and sreamed at
Usually, I've found, prefacing a dungeon with "I'm new to this dungeon/role, and im probably going to mess up" warns players in advance and the more toxic ones usually split before it becomes an issue.
About the talk on goats. Ow was not played because tanks could dps as much as dps. It was played because of insane aoe healing combined with large health pools and rotations of defensive abilities. Why trade out any of those for another character who will get out healed or out sustained. Sombra was only relevant because of emp which disabled those cooldowns.
yall editor is the funniest man on earth please never lose that guy.
The Bald One has spoken: this is tanking propaganda.
back when I played League, being the Top Lane or Support Tank could be a fun time but it could also be stressful. You can pop your combo to setup an engage only for your team not to follow up, or you can perfectly land that hook or stun and hand your ADC a double kill. If you're in the op lane alone you run the risk of accidentally feeding a Jax or an Illaoi or a Darius that then proceeds to walk through your entire team, or you be the first to take your tower and make the enemy Top irrelevant.
It's really weird listening to this because I never see tanks get hated on any more than DPS my entire life. It's always a healer. Who gets blamed for wipes? Healers. Guys don't even want to play healers. They groom girls into doing it for them lmao. What made you think tank was the most hated? Do you actually play MMOs? I don't get it. People usually love their tanks. They get the most praise for the least flak. Boss doesn't die? DPS' fault. Tank dies? Healer's fault. Healer dies? Healer's fault. Seriously. This seems so detached from reality to say that tanks are the most hated. Level down to earth and join us again one day.
As a Pudge players in dota 2 akshon was clueless with a tank class in his POV for every gaming, he should discovery this games that tank in dota is ridiculously terrifying their enemy carry
I usually plat Tank or Healer since my friends usually don't like playing either. But anyways, I was solo queuing one day in Paladins and was playing my Main, Khan. I always insta-pick him. My teammates also insta-picked. Raum, Torvold, and I forgot the 4th one but they were a tank too. At first our team was getting clobbered by an actual team who clearly were coordinating in a Voice Call. But since it was the Siege Gamemode we had a bit of an advantage there since we didn't need to get kills. The Raum managed to coordinate us using the in-chat text chat and thanks to them we managed to pull through a win. And ngl one thing that brought me great joy was how well he knew Khan's synergy with Raum. Since Khan has a Shield and Raum can have an extra health pool we were able to keep taking turns taking fire rather easily.
Torvold also provided that necessary extra tanking because of his ability to put shields on his teammates
I love tanking and I can put up with the insults. What really annoys me is when players with the easiest role (DPS) still can't do their one job.
I think this was a great breakdown video. However, I have to disagree with one of your points.
Tanks are NOT the most often blamed role when something goes wrong, unless they were obviously and blatantly fucking up. That honor goes to healers. It's very easy to blame a healer when a wipe happens, and often tanks will do this even when they were the one who screwed up.
Also, quoting a game journalist LUL