History of the Fightstick
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- Опубліковано 22 бер 2022
- Remember arcades? That place you’d go with your friends after school and spends pockets full of quarters on Street Fighter and Galaga? Before your time?
That’s fine because remnants of the arcade have made their way into our homes. And no, I’m not talking about the Street Fighter cabinet in your uncle’s man cave. I’m talking about controllers!
Specifically, the joystick and buttons are used across virtually all fighting games. Taking on various forms over the years, this setup has moved from giant machines to portable gamepads.
This, is the history of the Fightstick.
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Hey everyone, we want to let you know that we appreciate your support and the feedback on this video. We read all of your comments and take them to heart and will strive to do better in the future.
I just would like to point out that the early fighting games didn't share the 6 buttons scheme. MK had 5 (with the guard button between the 4 attack buttons) and most SNK games used 4 buttons in a line (A, B, C, and D).
Mark "MarkMan" Julio is the reason why Madcats started making quality fightsticks and his passion for the FGC is why we can buy insanely high-quality fightsticks today. I'm kind of stunned you guys didn't even mention him in this video.
Thanks for the kind words. It was a team and community effort. It was the right time for companies to recognize what arcade gamers loved at the time. I am more than happy to chat with anyone about those old days. There are some fun stories actually.
Maybe team up with someone or solo, do a video reminiscing about those times
Just an idea :)
They also kept zooming into the SE stick while talking about the TE.
@@MarkMan23 do a podcast with akshon esports...
Unfortunately since he's left that haven't made a stick that was worth a shit
Man, I remember feeling like the coolest kid when I played NES games with the NES Advantage. That would cement my love for playing arcade ports with a stick when possible besides fighting games. Playing Streets of Rage 4 with a stick is great and I can't wait to play Cowabunga Collection with it with my fam.
boomer lol
@@korndogssb Ah yes, I recall playing Megaman 2 on NES during the space race of the 1950s.
I had always wanted an NES advantage, but I was unable to pick one up until Comicon several years ago. And considering I have an Xbox 360 fight stick that also works on my PC...that shit cray!
Minor correction for 13:41
Smashbox's competitors B0xx and (now mainly) Frame1 are considered the go to options for rectangle style controllers in the smash community.
Smashbox was more the initial spark which spiralled off into b0xx after Hax$ left the Hitbox team to make his own version, and then Greg Turbo left the b0xx dev team himself to make his own spin on it.
i was honestly wondering if they just didn't do their research or were sponsored by hitbox when they said that. gave me whiplash lol
Thanks for the feedback. This was definitely something that your point could have expanded upon when it comes to discussing other rectangle style controllers in Smash Bros.
@@Akshonesports
EDIT: everything I said was about Melee kinda forgot about ult my b
To be clear the smash box is considered way too OP for competitive play. The Frame 1 is currently the state of the art, but people consider it OP as well and there have been discussions of nerfing or even banning hitbox style controllers.
@@nahometesfay1112 people have been discussing the validity of box controllers in smash for like 2 years now. Things like the pivot utilt nerf and input scrubbing have even been added to balance them more fairly.
@@theonlybass8947 I think the boxx should definitely be legal maybe even buffed. I'm just talking about the overall discussion
Small pet peeve: The stick at 10:27 is not TE but SE. Cheaper version with non-sanwa parts.
Can someone pin this?
@@zakutenakazumiya1516 Think only the creator can pin it
for anyone potentially interested in these controllers the term hitbox can refer either to the brand or the layout and imo other brands have succeeded in making better hitboxes than hitbox and are worth checking out.
Madcatz success in fightsticks can be directly correlated to markmans efforts while working in the company and their new line of fightsticks after the company's revival are truly not cut from the same cloth.
The creators of Mas sticks passed away in 2021 in a tragic fire. Recently their work has been carried over anew and creator scanline city has taken up the challenge of developing both traditional mas sticks and a new model that if I remember correctly, he had collaborated on with the original creator before their passing.
This video was great until they failed to mention Markman when talking about modern fightsticks.
It's funny to think about how SF1 standardized the 6-button set up when the game original used a joystick and two gigantic plunger buttons that you would smack with various degrees of force to get the three different strengths. Imagine if that had taken off instead. Thankfully, they were horrible to use and maintain, so the 6-button style became a cheaper solution.
13:39 I’ve seen my fair share of smashbox players but there is by no means a consensus among the smash community. Ultimate players are more likely to use a smashbox, but melee players use B0XX/Frame 1 almost exclusively since they’re specifically developed for Melee.
The main advantage smashbox has over its competitors right now is that because B0XX/Frame 1s have such long waiting lists, if you want to get a box controller without waiting 6 months for it smashbox is your only solid option.
tbf i think now it's just the boxx and frame 1 idk if i've seen a smashbox in a while
Most, if not every, smash player I’ve seen use a box have a different layout than the smashbox, usually called the b0xx or frame1
It’s weird they said six buttons became the standard yet the two fighting games they mentioned that were incredibly popular were fatal fury and mortal kombat which aren’t six button…
in fact most snk fighting games are probably 4 buttons, and neo geo dominated the arcade scene.
SEGA’s Virtua Fighter which was a huge deal in the 90s was only 3 buttons. NAMCO's Tekken and Soul Calibur are both 4 button games usually.
6 buttons was very much not the standard back then.
What makes this weird isn't that it's inaccurate (there are some other inaccuracies too in the video), but they almost directly contradict themselves as they state the "fact".
Yeah...really surprised they said that.
The original Street Fighter arcade cabinet also had a 2 button version available. That is what was in my local arcade when I was a kid.
I think you got it wrong. Street Fighter is the one to blame for the 6 buttons and the game had more impact in the arcades than the other games you mention. But the reason wasn't exactly that, it was actually for practical reasons. The same way that the standard for home version controllers has 8 buttons. You don't really need the 7th and 8th button for all these arcade games but it's easier to have more buttons for backwards compatibility than having to add more buttons. In short, the 6 button layout allowed you to play all the games you mentioned by just not using (or covering) the buttons you don't need.
@@STRevival2015 That’s not really what is said and the video, and most arcade cabinets are not made that way either back then.
Neo Geo is just 4 buttons, it doesn’t have 6 buttons with 2 laying there dormant. The machine can’t even play street fighter or any other 6 button fighter natively.
6 buttons is largely just a capcom thing, not a universal thing. Using the argument that 6 is more than 4, and it is easier to subtract than add seems like a straw man argument, and it isn’t really rooted in how arcade cabinets are made either.
@@chrisgrudge6964 Cabinets were either made specific for the game or generic ones and the generic ones outside of Japan were really bad as there was a big disconnect in the distribution chain between the game companies and the arcade businesses. It wouldn't be the first time you hear about cabinets with a Street Fighter in an arcade with just two buttons. It's a similar case nowadays with these home-popular (and horrible) custom modern cabinets, pretending to be retro, with subpar furniture quality and an lcd screen.
In Japan, however, you can find the SNK cabinets with the 4 buttons you mention. Unfortunately for you, out of all the brands manufacturing cabinets, the SEGA astro city is the one that became the most popular setting a standard for reasons too long to explain here. Search for "mikado astro city" to read more articles about it.
Neat history lesson with a surprising amount of more modern gaming history coverage with the discussion of the HitBox controllers and such. It was fascinating to learn about and always interesting to hear the love given to the old school arcade scene (something I never truly got to see by the point I was gaming).
Thanks! Glad you like this video :D
Just to be clear Hori was a already considered a top of the line arcade stick manufacturer well before the advent of the MCZ TE1. As a matter of fact, Hori had the license in Japan to produce SF4 branded arcade sticks.
Good content tho.
The HRAP and MAS sticks are really the grand daddies of this entire thing
@@zachleyba5529 pretty much.
I was thinking the same thing. Like the Hori Real Arcade Pro SE and SA both had seimitsu and sanwa parts respectively. They were made for the ps1 which was long before the MCZ TE1 ever came out. They used that same shell and layout all the way up to ps3/360 era with the hori rap3
As a fight stick collector this really makes me happy
Once I've sorted some stuff out imma get back into collecting
Ya me too. I'm out of space and don't trust storage units after a bad experience so I need to get rid of stuff to make room for more fightsticks LOL
@fgc-linux1650 what about getting some shelves on your walls?
Just so you know, the TE1 you were showing was actually Standard Edition (SE) Fightstick. The smaller cousin of the TE that was using non-sanwa Parts.
The TE was the bigger breathen with the official sanwa parts
But said parts can be switched out for Sanwa parts. I should know; i've done it.
Very cool video! All the different tech and customization that can go into a fightstick fascinates me. You can really express yourself with the controller.
Glad you enjoyed it!
14:48 What you said here is so beautiful🎉 Agree 100%
I grew up in Japan where i got to play most fighting games in the arcades first for about 6-18 months before the games came out on consoles and absolutely fell in love with arcade joysticks and buttons.
Now big fighting games are released straight to consoles because there is such a big world wide competitive scene. So now when i got SF6 on release date it really feels like i got a real SF6 cabinet at home and i don't need to spend 400x ¥100 coins to experience the game at launch.
Long story short as you said, the arcades are alive in our livingrooms now, and the arcade history and traditions only live as long as we are using arcade sticks..
very fun to watch, thank you for the information and also to comments below for more information. i got into fighting games last year and just recently built my first custom fightstick (a mixbox with wasd keypad) few weeks ago and really enjoyed it. after playing around this for a while i'd love to build another one (and hopefully improve in these fighting games)
This was a really cool video. I have no interest in esports, and don't really even play fighting games much. My love for arcade sticks runs strong, though, for all kinds of games [Spelunky, anyone?]. I learned a few things about them today, and it makes me happy! You rock bunches!
Great video man! love your FGC stuff
Hitbox is the best! I saw the video and I built one for myself. Love it.
Thank you so much for the fighting game coverage. It’s amazing .
God bless the fightstick. I still play every fighting game on my Xrd art TE2.
Thank you for all your videos Forreal man you really keep me entertained after a long day of work keep it up
Thanks! Reading comments like these really warms our hearts knowing you enjoyed it.
This dude sounds like Sakurai’s English voice dub explaining the history of a character during a Smash Bros. Presentation 😂😂😂
Here in Australia we were all using Australian-built MCA joysticks in the arcades, and the ultimate home joystick was the Battlestation II, which was a huge steel control panel with two MCA joysticks with six buttons each and had cords for the NES, SNES, Master System, Mega Drive, Amiga, Commodore 64 and Atari. A lot of Australian arcade and fighting game players still swear by the MCA as the best arcade joysticks ever made, they were more expensive than the Japanese sticks, but were super tough. They're kinda ball-top, but the whole knob and rod are plastic coated. Look them up and maybe give them a try if you can get ahold of one!
That was awesome man! Your voice talking gaming history is something I want more of!!
when I was 7 in the mid 90sh I would refuse to play a game without my ascii arcade stick for my ps1, I remember being so amazed that I can play all my favorite games like in my town's local arcade, playing 2d platformers, shot em ups, 3d platformers, party games, and fighting games where my go to games at that age as I was usually to young for any other game (I used that weird Namco controller for racing games and had a light gun for light gun games, I was a spoiled little shit thanks for my dad being a hardcore gamer at that time lol)
Yo, what a great and informative video!! Thanks for taking the time to put this together for us...👍👍🙏
Love these videos I'm pretty sure I've watched all of them three times already
There's a misconception that melee players use the smashbox as their rectangle alternative. That just isn't true, the smashbox has become more for ultimate players while melee players have primarily gone over to the b0xx or Frame1.
I've been spending some time recently making my own version of the hitbox, because I was a PC keyboard player and wanted my weird ass button layout from pc converted to hitbox form. It's been a lot of fun prototyping with cardboard
You can find something called a mixbox, basically a hitbox but it uses keyboard buttons for movement if you're used to that
I don't really get the need of a Hitbox anyway. When the Stick is missing, you might aswell just use your keyboard, right?
@@dunkelwelpling Probally cause of the feel. Hitting the arcarde button give a different feel than a keyboard button
@@dunkelwelpling the keys are close to each other making it weird. Sometimes because there are so mnay keys you might misplace your hand. Might as well simplify it into hitbox layout
@@dunkelwelpling Keyboards are good but not purpose built for fighters, unlike Hitbox. And not everyone that uses one is playing on PC. I need to play VF5 on console for example. Plus you can't bring a keyboard to tournaments usually.
Very nice though kinda disappointed the Namco Arcade Stick on PS1 wasn't covered (the grey one with the yellow buttons). I'd say that was the first decent commercial arcade stick and is honestly still my favorite. Heck I'm kinda annoyed because it was also really affordable in a way modern arcade sticks aren't.
Also the Capcom Fighter Power Stick for SNES. Obviously not the quality of things available later but there were products to get decently close to the arcade experience at home.
Great video. 👍🏾 love it!
Yo! I've been binge watching for over an hour and get a new video!
Lucky lucky day 😁
Thank you for mentioning MAS systems, such an important part of our community. I think there was a miss on the optical variations of arcade components (p360 / sanwa flash) addtionally, there were lots of imports around the 2k era (ascii sticks for guilty gear, capcom vs snk, etc). Otherwise, it was a nice doc regarding the history of our arcade sticks :)
EDIT: I want to also say the grass root component of arcade stick building. Neogeo, SRK, arcade projects, madmancafe, slackcoin.....so many places where you could go to learn how to custom create your own arcade stick from scratch. That in itself could probably be a whole video :)
Love your videos man keep up the hardwork
Thank you!
This was super informative. Thanks!
I love arcade-style fighting games.
Informative as always
Amazing video!!
This video is great for Fight stick curious. Thank you for the info
6:22 video before unfortunate events
The Smashbox is NOT the standard for competitive Smash. It's not even in the conversation. Frame1 or B0XX are the only prominent box controllers in the community. Disappointed, usually your videos are so well researched.
I was on pad during a time when getting a stick was difficult. Can't tell you the amount of crap I got from the boys when I would challenge them in MVC2 on my controller.
Made every win feel even better. Haha.
As much as I appreciate hitbox and other innovations to improve controller alternatives I find it very bad if they are used for arcade games (instead of console games) as it's a crucial detail that affects all the preservation efforts of the arcade era that many communities are doing around the world.
It's also very connected to a cultural part of Japan where the arcade scene will eventually die but we want that date to happen as late as possible in the future.
For the last 15 years many players around the world have been able to travel overseas between communities with no problem of accessibility as the candy cab controllers became the unofficial standard and for that we have to thank eternally Markman and Madcatz.
damn what a coincidence I was planning to buy my first fight stick thanks for the info man
Let us know what you end up getting!
Toujours des vidéos de qualité !!! continue
Very informative.
Even though I was already comfortable on pad and honestly sticks aren't even considered the best way to play anymore I got one just because they are really cool and I love the expression you can put into them.
as a fight stick fancier, i very much love seeing this kind of content. The ps3 and ps4 fight stick were just built differently compared to ps4 sticks. way way more durable
Thanks for the vid
Excellent choice in music Akshon Esports!
I thought the main no stick arcade controller for smash was the Boxx?
Cool story. Alex valley use to play cvs2 on xbox the original...I was 12 and upset I couldn't win any fight..he sat in a private lobby just showing me everything his gamertag was coilaflower or something like that. Dude was super cool,he told me so many people quit kid if you are still here after a week I'll keep teaching you. That's why I teach the new players I see on tekken7 (my current fighting game)
This is the bid I needed 2 years ago! I'm glad I found it though regardless
- Street Fighter's motion inputs were just an easter-egg for highly skilled players
- Street Fighter's 6 button layout was an after-thought after their experiment with pressure-based buttons failed
- Street Fighter 2's combo mechanic was the result of a bug that the dev's thought was funny
It almost feels like the Fighting Game genre was entirely built of accidents
The first photos of the MadCatz "TE" in the video aren't of the Tournament Edition though, they're of the "Standard Edition" that didn't have Sanwa parts.
Finally, a video that covers this.
I was maybe hoping for a little more history, but I enjoyed the video.
The hitbox is literally just what every mechanical keyboard player knows for years.
I'm still interested in a stick since the haptic and feeling and fun is something else.
I have a Hitbox from this year, a QANBA crystal from 2016, and a MvC2 TE1 from 2009. The older sticks have some recent modding, but they will hold up really well.
I'm just a filthy casual with fighting games (haven't played seriously since Alpha 2 was NEW in the arcades). But I kind of want a fight stick for MAME/FBA reasons. I loved the arcade as a kid. Loved it.
Look up the atari 2 player fightstick from micro center with raspberry pi built in. Feels like an american arcade, just download SD card image and you got thousands of games to play with. Just plugs right into a tv with hdmi. You can get Pandora's box if you're really lazy for true plug and play, but the Atari has nicer parts and feel
my favorite series on UA-cam
Need shooting games to be included. Shmups were a definite highlight in the arcade era, thus had an important impact on the design of the arcade stick. Regardless, a very good video. Many thanks for your passion, time and effort.
Smash Box is the perfect name for that rig and not just for the branding. I don't think I've ever seen so many buttons on a controller, outside of a traditional keyboard.
If you’re on the fence about the hitbox please, please get it, it feels incredible playing on it and definitely helps you focus on execution the right way. especially if you struggle with any kind of hand/wrist pain, the hitbox is for you. Get the young ones around you learning hitbox early, so they have much longer term health span when it comes to gaming.
Awesome vid! I think the only arcade stick layout that was always a bit awkward for me was the MK style with that X shaped style of button layout of 4 outer buttons and the block being in the middle. Was always so strange for my hands to ever get used to properly
My first stick was the namco soul edge on ps1 .. I still have it . But now i use the razer phantera evo . Good all round sticks
Built my own fight stick out of cardboard and some parts off of the internet. Best decision I've ever had coz it feels jank enough for me to take care of it, while being functional enough to have fun.
great content, I lean short history of USA FGC from this vid :)
I grew up in the same area and made Joysticks for people at the same time at MAS. That said His quality blew me out of the water
I bought an arcade quality joystick for the SNES in the mid 90s called Firestick. It was made by a company in California and used the same type of stick and buttons found in arcade machines. It was similar to the MAS controllers.
At 14:28, is that a Nacon Daija on the right (as the 500 dollars 'example')?
Akshon time baby
I'm almost always play fighting game on PC so I play it with keyboard. I tried to use a fight stick but I didn't suit my motoric preferences so I stick with my keyboard. I guess if would ever play on a console, a mixbox or a hitbox will suit me well.
I think you might love hitbox, same WASD layout for movement but attack buttons are more comfier, bigger, and responsive.
hitbox is best overall.
No words on my boy the mixbox?
I think it's interesting to talk about it and the influence of the new wave of PC FGC players
Nice video.
let's GO "Blue Water Blue sky" playing in there!!!
Thank you for the video!
You should have mentioned that the original Street Fighter cabinet used those 'Pneumatic' punchable buttons and not the 6 button layout.
The punchables got swapped as they kept breaking when people smacked them, no surprise.
I bought a TE1 back in like 2013 or so, I used that thing until earlier this year when the stick stopped working. Amazing how it lasted over 10 years from its original production.
you can probably just buy a replacement sanwa stick off amazon for $25. or the encoder board got fried, but that can probably be replaced for $20 also
@3:30 Six buttons were *not* the standard for fighting games. The standard for SNK titles were four buttons, because the Neo Geo MVS cabinet offered only four buttons . Mortal Kombat, along with other games like Time Killers, used five buttons. 3D games would only move further from six button schemes. What you could get from a six button controller was *adequate* support for most fighting games, even if the available buttons weren't in optimal positions for all games.
I'd say in the long run Capcom's six button config was the exception to the rule. The NeoGeo stuff standardized four buttons and when Sony won the gamepad wars with a Nintendo four button config that became the norm for everybody.
A friend of mine has this bizarre half-controller fightstick that has buttons on one side and a controller grip + d-pad on the other. It's hilarious, but it works.
Yo, when you showed footage of the TE, you actually had footage of the SE. which wasn't nearly as good and didn't use sanwa parts.
Great video! I‘m happy I clicked.
Crazy how there were more Pad and Hitbox players than Stick players in the Evo top 8s this year
The deluxe 87 Street Fighter had 2 large Pressure Sensitive Buttons instead of the 6 Buttons before being abandoned for the 6 buttons that the standard cab had because of how easily they broke
Looking to pick up a mix box soon. Been playing strive exclusively on keyboard.
Great work guys!
We're glad we were able to help with questions.
Thanks for showcasing and supporting the FGC!
the nes advantage was feeling so solid, i still have it, sadly no fighting game of interest ever were on the system, so i basically never used it, also had that falce joystick gamepad that was just terrible, remember paying big money for that garbage in the 90(or have my dad pay for it like 99francs/15 bucks, it was a lot for a controller at that time, for exemple i buyed my nes games the equvalent of a dollar now, and selled them before they became super expensive lol), it was still sold new in stores.
In retrospect, Hitbox / buttonboxes seem so obvious. ¿What's the best thing about arcade sticks? The buttons. ¿You know how computer keyboards have arrow keys / WASD? ¿What if Sanwa made them? Kinda goes to show that sometimes great innovation / invention is right under our noses. (When every pro gamer in every genre is playing with a flight stick in their left hand and a combination mouse-and-trackball in their right hand, I will accept all credit with grace and modesty.)
Of course, it helps to know in 2022 that playing stick (and playing Smash) for decades can cause wrist and hand problems down the road. The improvement to our health is the most important thing to come of the invention of the Hitbox / buttonbox.
Should a good thing about nostalgia is like you can basically got anyway and still play arcade games like if a mini carnival comes around cos I'm from UK it's a mini like kind of all comes out in the park and have arcade machines and all sorts and I can enjoy the hell out of it
I made my own hitbox using a cardboard box and some sanwa bottons, i've never being happier playing fighting games.
Fantastic history recap - I got into Smash Ultimate and decided that controller just didn't give me the consistency and accuracy I needed so I went ahead and made keyboard.gg :)
The amount of buttons on a Smash Bros box breaks my brain, lol. I love it yet it's so wild.
you also have to mention the hit box and mix box cause those have some facts that further the fightstick technology
Oh, man. I remember when i hooked up my 360 fight stick to emulate SMB1 on my PC... #goodtimes
What is the first song in the Video? it's been stuck in my head since I watched this video like a day ago
The videos shown as he talks about the te1 makes it look like he's calling the SE a TE1. Just to clarify, the smaller, white stick is the Standard Edition. The bigger one with white sides is the Tournament Edition
Why do I have to watch a hitbox ad whenever I watch a video like this.
I love my Hori: FightingEdge fight stick, but I'm really eager to try the Hitbox out, might really need alot of time to get used to it but it might be worth it.
I made the switch last year & it was well worth it. Whenever you get the chance to get one, give it a shot