What It's REALLY Like Living in a Cult: Inside the ICOC 😳
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- Опубліковано 22 сер 2023
- Ever wondered about the mysterious world inside a cult? I spent 7 years of my life immersed in one, and let me tell you, it was a rollercoaster of experiences. From the camaraderie that felt like family to the unsettling beliefs that isolated us, I'm pulling back the curtain on what life is truly like within those walls. Join me as I recount the highs, lows, and the moments that had me questioning everything. This is an unfiltered glimpse into a world that's often hidden from view - a story that's equal parts captivating and chilling. Buckle up for a journey through my personal odyssey of living in a cult.
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That threat of “going to hell” would be a HUGE red flag to me 🚩. Also, getting “permission” to date and only seeing people within the church - also a red flag 🚩
Yep! 🚩🚩🚩
Yes indeed 👍🏽
@@travelsnacks I’m part of this church. I did not need permission to date someone outside of the church.
They were legitimately trying to convince me to break up with my girlfriend who’s been my best friend to 2 years. She was legit the catalyst that got me to take my relationship with Christ serious. If people feel comfortable enough giving such strong unsolicited advice, run for the hills
When you leave these brothers and sisters you were with for years are nowhere to be found. Leave the church you leave the Kingdom. ( Kingdom is within).
The ICOC always says, "The negative you heard about ICOC is how it used to be. We are different now."
...and then they go on to show that they haven't really changed a whole lot, just a change of management.
I was a member of the Greatland Christian Church (Anchorage AK ICOC) 1993-96. Then I was part of the Rhode Island ICOC. Same problems everywhere.
Everything you said, what you experienced, was EXACTLY as it was then. The International Cult of Kip along with His Diskipples and bits have never changed. Henry Kreite and his letter to the Church never sunk in, apparently. So sad.
No freedom of thought, no resolve to any issues that may be personality based. No questioning of authority. I remember being told God doesn't makes mistakes about leadership.....and I remember saying he doesn't, but you do. Yep, that marked me for disaster. When I finally left RI and Church going at all, I was not into being a disciple any more. Too much drama, not joy. I missed a weekly contribution. If I did that again, my salvation depended on it, I was told. These tactics of guilt, shame, meanness, manipulation, all designed to control you, not to surrender to Jesus, but to them. When I left I just wanted to see milestones hung from their necks. Still do. It took decades to pick my Bible back up, my faith was destroyed. Persecution from outside the church, sure. Contempt from within I just never saw it coming. Till it did.
I have had to repent of much sin and heartbreak over the years. I read and pray again. Daily. I have yet to find a church that I can not feel assaulted by. It's trauma I just don't think I can ever really recover from. Pray I do.
A church of Christ started up in Atlanta in the mid 1980s.
They leased the building, that had been named Druid Hills church of Christ, and grew from the many 26 to 45 year olds moving into northeast Atlanta.
The Druid Hills congregation had aged out not able to have mobility, moved away.
But i had attended several Sunday worship services from March 1987.
Easter of 87 the building was full.
I was upset about one of the supposed founders of that congregation, after he told me in the line to ask for baptism, he said i was not ready.
I was with an older friend who went to Robert Lipscomb Bible school.
The end of that congregation made it to the Atlanta newspapers Metro section.
Seems too many elders trying to rule the congregants with an iron hand.
So they go from a large gathering in Spring 1987, to closed down by December 1988.
I'm sorry you had this experience with Alaska and Rhode Island. The contribution pressure is wrong. Do you think its fair to label hundreds of churches with "nothing has changed" based on your experience with two of them? There is a shared culture no doubt. Yet, as someone who grew up in the ICOC I have never once been told I must give contribution. And was expressly told repeatedly that it was not a biblical demand for a church leader to make; from the pulpit no less. Hopefully this gives you some hope that there has been genuine repentance in many congregations in key areas. I hope you can find healing and a church that helps you draw near to God.@@thomasouellette8987
Omg. I've said it! And yes, I was scolded. I'm sorry your faith was shaken. I guess mine too. A leader would say to the congregation, " if you leave, you better go all out. " with further meaning we will need those memories in hell. Well...I went all out! I'm with you churches are disappointing. I live my life by the 10 commandments. Simple. Done.
Good for you, for using your heart and eyes to see.
I hope you continue to heal.❤
Someone tried to recruit me to this church a couple years ago. I’m in Texas and she just moved here from Cali and told me she lived with a few other girls and they were disciples. I had a phone call with her after meeting her and we talked about our faith, it was her first church experience but I grew up in a baptist and non denominational family so I knew something wasn’t right speaking with her. She was already shaming me for not living this strict lifestyle. I never went to the church and she called me over and over again throughout the following year! Girl I had to block her !! I definitely knew something wasn’t right and I’m glad I have discernment and relationship with God already so I didn’t get sucked in
Yowza! Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm glad you didn't get sucked in.
We used to live in the Boston area, where this cult got its start. I knew several families that were torn apart by this organization. Families are much more important than this control freak baloney. Im so happy you were able to break away, Alison.
My friend in the boston area joined this church. Can i talk to you privately somehow to understand this church and what they got going on?
I still have family in leadership with Kip McKean!😞
It WAS a “business” model! Individuals turned into sales people for the church vs disciples for Christ. So glad you removed yourself from that organization❤️
Exactly! It was like a factory, So stressful. I'm glad I got out too!
You forgot professional gossips!
I got "saved" in the ICOC but long story short the Holy Spirit led me out within 2 months ... Praise The Lord!
God used it so I could "find Him". I still have my journals and the "Counting the Costs" session before the baptism. It is amazing how many issues I had leaving there...almost traumatized...can't imagine people who were in there longer. Ultimately I am grateful for the experience but glad I got out early.
I still have the books too.
Like you said...intention was great, execution...a cult...lol
Edit: gosh, I am remembering everything you mentioned. I was in the ICOC in 2001. They were trying to call me into a household...anyway I didn't for reasons too long to mention. I remember sessions I confessed and would end up in a sermon. I was in college at the time and impressionable where they mostly looked for new disciples.
Whoa! I remember 'counting the costs' too. It's so crazy how many different issues there were. I'm glad you got out early!
Same Holy Spirit led me out and the more you become aware the more they question you but I’m thankful I left when God told me to leave and God definitely used that time to transform me from the inside out. I’m grateful and I pray others will see Gods love and rely on him.
Are you in orange county CA. Have a friend that's involved with church
Same thing happened to me. I was in the ICOC for about 2-3 months and while I got some good things out of it- they gave me trust issues and other trauma. So glad that God led me out and used my experience for good
Wow, God knew what you needed at that time.
I recently left the ICC. I was reached out to during a spiritual low-point, and that’s how I joined. I think part of the struggle leaving is that I believe everyone in the church is very genuine in their faith. It makes it difficult because then you have doubts whether or not you’re in the wrong. At the end of the day I’m grateful for them because they helped me in seeking God and getting my life on track.
On another note, my parents had a similar approach to yours. They were very skeptical of the church, but weren’t church-going themselves. They initially vocalized their doubts, but eventually laid off on the comments. Afterwards they said that they believed it was something I should discover for myself on whether or not I wanted to stay there.
I was in it for years. Dating and the one true church were my two biggest issues. Glad I got out
Thank you for sharing this. You hit the nail on the head with everything you said. I was a member for 7 yrs in the LAICOC but went to service in Irvine, CA. I was forced into leadership because I was told that being a former military serviceman I was a leader. I never believed that I was saved. I never truly understood what having a relationship with Christ was. I did things out of fear of going to hell.
Sorry to hear that.
I was in this cult in high-school. It ruined my faith. For 20 years.
Please explain.
That's terribly sad!
Same. Except I went back to a different city church 20 years later. I honestly think it’s an attempt to heal my inner child and be the adult I needed then.
@basedanimeonly7922 from day one they kept me from my family. They appeared to my family as a wholesome family group but I literally only spent 2 days a week at home.
Sunday I was with church members from 7am till bedtime. It was preferred that i spend the night Saturday with sisters and not go home until Monday for school after I was baptized.
Monday. School then study group after church
Tuesday home
Wednesday: Bible talk
Thursday home
Friday night: youth events
Saturday youth activity until Sunday church.
Rinse and repeat. On Tuesday and Thursday I was encouraged to go to my disciplers home to eat dinner with them.
I remember telling my discipler that I felt weird reaching out because I had an ulterior motive and would probably not talk to them normally. She said, "Well, you DO have an ulterior motive. But it's a good one!" Still creeps me out.
That's exactly like the Jehovah Witness!
You forgot to mention how when a person fell into sin you would have to call them and make them feel bad. They forced me to call one girl and make her feel so bad so for a personal thing she committed. I felt so bad after and told myself I will never do anything like that to someone again.
Omg yes they told me things about another minor that I absolutely shouldn’t have known as a way to shame her. I’ll never forget it
I was raised in the church of Christ. It was so strict.
The thing that still amazes me is that for attending 12 plus years three times a week. I never knew that God loved
me. Everything was based on fear. It seemed every action would somehow send you to hell.
Many years after leaving the church siting I was living in hell.
I heard a sermon that said God loved me. It changed my life!
Dang, that's so sad. I'm glad you got out and finally experienced God's love. 🙏🏼
It sounds like they worshipped the church and not God.
Yes, that's a good way to put it!
Exactly! You're on point!
Perfect way to put it
It is so great for you to share 😊
Back in the early 90's 20/20 did a piece about them and that was when I started to put all for the things together that you said in this video. I have always wanted to meet someone that had the same expierence. Thank you for sharing this!
I tried this "church" for a few months a couple years back. I was really into the family-like lifestyle they shared, but it quickly started to get weird when i realized they did *EVERYTHING* together. Only dated one another, lived together, any outings was ONLY with church members or family, seeminly mandatory get togethers multiple times a week every week. And this "family" type dynamic started to feel.... obligatory. Like some of them were just forcing a smile and fake loving-ness because they have to love their brothers and sisters in christ. It really started to rub me the wrong way.
I didnt know the bible well so it was really easy for me to just accept what i was being told. I started researching the bible and truth on my own and quickly got more freaked out by the group.
I remember them sharing very VERY tmi sin issues with me, which didnt feel like a flattering "i need to get this off my chest to a kind ear." It felt more like it was said in a way to try to get me to say sins I struggle with. Im all for having someone to be able to share struggles with, who can hold you accountable, but not someone you just met a couple months prior, and them making you feel like you have to tell them your issues!
When i started pulling away a bit to explore other churches (but i wasnt yet fully commited to leaving their church -i still had a fondness for some of the members and their christ centered goals) their love bombing turned into anger. That was a huuuge red flag. They didnt ask me *why* i would feel compelled to explore other churches. They were just upset I didnt conform to whatever they wanted before they could baptise me. They didnt seem to care about me and my salvation - just about their numbers.
I was so caught off guard by the sudden anger. I quickly knew I made the right choice to leave their clutches.
It hurts how it feels like they faked being a friend to get me to join. Some of them still try to text me to tell me about upcoming church events, but never to just ask how ive been...even when i was in the church they never really seemed too interested in who i was as a person, even though i was taking steps to show genuine interest in them. Super fake "friends".
Their theology messed me up for a little while and it took some untangling. Even from just a few months! But I have been a part of 2 truly Bible focused churches and ive been able to follow christ in a healthy manner that has generated TRUE change. Not obligatory fake change.
The ONE good thing I got out of this church: they got me into a good habit of reading my Bible. Im not always consistent but it isnt a foreign concept to me to read daily.
Having to ask permission from human beings would cause me to raise several eyebrows. We have the Holy Spirit to lead and guide us, so that is stepping way over the boundaries. They should be encouraging other members to pray for guidance and direction instead of trying to play God. This is an important topic. I would love to see more.
Amen! Great comment. I agree, there was very little teaching people how to be sufficient in the Lord and to depend on God's Holy Spirit within.
Amen! I agree that their church issues needs to be at the least addressed to the public. The problem is that they don't truly follow God and they certainly are bad teachers to their recruits. You can't just force a baptism and expect people to learn your way in a matter of weeks. God doesn't work like that. Only He knows the right time and He has a plan for each and every one of us, so why should a church like this try to control that?
Baptism should not be a requirement, but a decision made by the receiver, not the giver. People should be learning the Bible in its full context and be able to study it for themselves. I have been a Christian my whole life and I accepted Christ into my life when I was nine. To be exposed to this cult's doctrines over time is like having poison put in your system. They don't value or respect Christians for their beliefs, desired paths, or personal lives in general. The Holy Spirit would never do that. And you should never try to impose doctrines on other people. I get that the Bible needs to be taken seriously, but this is not being taken literally by their church. It's being twisted and they don't give any credit where it's due.
The leader is a tyrant and a control freak and teaches others to be the same.
Great content. Super interesting and very needed. 😊
Great to hear!
I was introduced to ICOC in 2001 on my college campus. A super sweet girl invited me to a Bible study. God was already pulling me in His direction, so I was happy to go. Over the next several months, I experienced much of what you discussed. There was a lot of pressure to spend hours with my new friends and away from my family. What pushed me to know something wasn't right was when they told me my mom wasn't a Christian when I knew she was. And, when I told them I wanted to get baptized in my childhood church, they said the only way I could be saved was to be baptized in their church. I walked away. Naively, I thought we could go our separate ways but still be friends. They wanted nothing to do with me after that. But, God still used them to save me. The Bible studies encouraged me to read the Bible without bias and our study on the crucifixion broke my pride and showed me my need for a Savior. So I can't be upset really. God still uses broken things to save people. I'm just thankful I didn't stay with ICOC.
I watched this video on my bedroom tv so couldn’t comment right away. Allison, I appreciate you, your speaking ability and your kind heart. I was raised Pentecostal and in my day it was a lot of condemnation, guilt, fear. It controlled my mind and crippled me as a person. Even though it was brutal I am so thankful for the Bible teaching because it was through the teachings I learned about how much God loved me. The price Christ paid for me. I love where your channel is headed right now.
So fascinating. Well done ❤😊
Thanks!
Thank you for sharing your experiences with the 'church' I think you handled this sensitive subject with a level headed approach. I do relate to a lot of what you were saying.
I know exactly what you're speaking about. When the women's church leader told me I couldn't go home because they didn't approve, I made sure to disobey.
I was involved in this church for a few months Fall 2015. Before they even asked me to study the Bible, I looked at their website and saw ICOC at the very very bottom in small letters and did some research. Saw some disturbing things. Soon after the Bible studies started happening and I got very uncomfortable. I survived one semester. I had one bible study with the pastor’s wife and her telling me I was soooooo far away from God (without knowing me) was so disturbing and confusing to me. Don’t get me started on the sin study.
"If they started a business"? IT IS A BUSINESS.
Who precisely makes all the money? Where does it go?
I can honestly say I would not last 10 minutes in that church! I would be critical, bitter, ungrateful and rebellious🤣
😂 😂 Thank you, That gave me a good chuckle! 🤣
I guess I be beeping to see if people invited were coming
Back in the 90s 🤔
This video brought back countless memories. I was a member of this church from 1995-2006. I have struggles with people pleasing, heightened emotional intensity, and major distractibility as a result of ADHD (undiagnosed at the time). I was honestly driven by fear - fear of hell, fear of criticism & rejection, fear of being a disappointment. My journey led me from Chicago to South Florida and back again - but had I known fully what I was dealing with inside me, I wouldn't have stayed as long as I did. I've made attempts to attend other churches since, but I could never stick with any of them. I don't want to put myself in a situation where I could potentially relive such a negative experience.
I, too, was in from 1994- 2003. It's been 21 years, and I have Church hooped for years. It is a struggle, but my relationship with God has been strong for over 15 years now! I am eternally grateful for everything God has shown me, but I do have many scars, as does my family. I have so many triggers, and I still have some family members in major leadership roles with Mr. Kip himself! 😑
I knew a few people from my childhood that got hooked up with the NYC Church of Christ and to this day have struggled a bit mentally. As a young Christian attending a great church I came across a few members who wanted to "fellowship" with me and I walked away feeling man am I even saved. But I feel God used it to strengthen my faith in his finished work for me. Thank you for sharing this. Oh for those who may be listening just know those who are truly sent by God will always point you to Jesus(John the Baptist) and wont be personally offended if you dont follow them or thier organization. Thanks again Allison ❤
It’s nice to hear how supported you were. When I started fostering a baby … I was expected to be at church the next day… had to beg sisters to come over and literally was asked if I planned on going to a field trip the next weekend. But the married sisters with new baby were definitely supported like you said.
Talk about PTSD...it's been over 30 years and it's still fresh 😮
Same here. I left in 1990 and the resentment is stood there.
Girl, this video brought back memories. Whew chile.
The fact that I went through this is crazy to me bro
This is exactly my experience with the ICOC.
I can totally see your travel journey as trauma response/healing journey!
Wow, so interesting. I’d like to hear more about it.
Thank you so much for exposing this toxic group❤
Thank you for your honest comments.
I was baptized in 1991 and I am still part of the ICOC, I am in Tijuana Mexico now, the church methods have changed drastically for good. most of what you've said brought many memories to me and I appreciate you shared your experiences; I agree with most of them. Once Kip Mckean left, lots of improvements were implemented.
Do you still believe your part of the "one true church" and all other denominations are wrong?
As someone who grew up in the ICOC and can remember fairly well back to the early 2000's. Too young before that to really recall . I have never heard this taught from a pulpit. And I have heard the opposite explicitly taught both in private and in public. Due to many decades of conditioning a lot of the members have a hard time not seeing things this way and displaying visceral reactions when somebody transfers to a different church. This can happen even when they explicitly say they don't believe this anymore. But, no this is not taught nor expected of members as a doctrinal commitment anywhere that I have been. Which certainly isn't everywhere. Out of curiosity, as a Hospitaller, are you Catholic? Because this is certainly a Catholic teaching, as well as an Eastern Orthodox one. @@HOSPlTALLER
I have to agree, although I have seen some older Christians still have some of the operating practices mentioned, but it's far and few between in churches.
Been a member since 2013 and have gotten informed about what was done before so it doesn't get repeated. Clearly many people were spiritually ruined by what was done honestly all to serve Kips reach the world in one generation which isn't in scripture.
I’m waiting for (possibly) the next video about how you got out. I’m almost certain that it will be banned in Utah for similar reasons. Speak boldly my friend!✝️
Hey Allison! ❤
Hello!
Cool video, I actually just realized this about the ICOC at my university. I’ve been a Christian for quite a while now before this and yes I mean they’re right about a lot of things in the ICOC about how you don’t have to make a big deal about sharing your faith and you should just do it, but in practice the church made me very upset and actually felt for a little while like I was kinda worse off in my faith. Overall, praise God for showing me that I should put more effort into sharing the Gospel but these people are crazy in a bad way and I felt pretty angry when I was there (this was my experience and maybe others had better or worse ones idk).
I was in the ICOC for 2 years! I can't even begin to tell you how much they destroyed my life! I thank God I got out when I did!
100 percent
What seems to be selfless, and of course at time it was ( atnoeast we wanted it to be in our hearts) , was motivated alot by ego. Your ego would get rewarded, being praised for bringing visitors, and all things like that. Being raised up. Made a bibke talk leader and so on. . They fed are ego, and then called that excitement the holyspirit. And if course then being, " discipled" or even rebuked, was the negative reinforcement. I also was in the ICOC for 7 years and a missionary to Athens Greece. Thank you for sharing.
You hit the nail on the head. For anyone needing help understanding why otherwise successful and bright human beings will be drawn to groups like this, look up Margaret Singer (not to be confused with Sanger) and her work regarding cults.
Don’t know if I should comment, But, we’re all broken in some way. Those who did not have a “good” upbringing in a church are vulnerable to psychological manipulation ‘cause folks are looking for an end to their pain, a savior, and may be willing to follow “the rules”, especially if not raised with any guide rails or family that showed love and concern. Being “offered” a house with “good” church family is a real draw and relief for some. I can see the pull for many to join. No judgement.
Love these videos!!! Thank you for sheddung light on this topic. You have no idea how many people your story will help and protect from the dangerous deception guised by religion. God is real, the Bible is true, but people are always getting in the way.
Interesting for sure!!!
I don’t know if you ever heard of the big crash of the ICOC in 2002… occurred in NYC… I proudly caused it! All it took me was studying the 7 studies, particularly the Kingdom study, in a more detailed way and away from their supervision… boy… my eyes opened in just afternoon! Then I questioned one by one, higher and highe in the hierarchy, and their unmasking was spectacular! I left and took tens with me, and they took their other tens, and it fell apart a month later. Somehow they picked up the pieces and rebooted this cult!
According to them you were committing “spiritual pornography”. Also, I thought the revamp was because of the Henry Kriete letter?!
The fall was with the Kip McKean´s letter, back in 2002, after my actions, but the revamp you mentioned I don´t know, I lost all ties with that cult! @@ruthyh2874
@@ruthyh2874 - According to them I was “being prideful ” when I started asking questions USING THE BIBLE! Basterds!
WELL I WAS IN THE CHURCH HERE IN NZ ITE REALLY STUFFS U CRAZY
Every thing you said they where doing with this cult was weird. always wondered how people can fall into cults, so sad
Being involved in that church sounds exhausting and I’ve been heavily involved in church before…like you couldn’t Rest in the Lord and wait for the Holy Spirit to lead you…
Yes this is a great point! There was no resting. And to your point, there wasn't even time to consider what the HOLY SPIRIT wanted you to do.
Wow, you described the ICOC very well! Listening to you brought back so many memories, good and bad. I believe the intent was to be like the first century church but there was too much human interpretation to the scriptures. Thank you for shedding light on an organization that at one time was a cult. I left many years ago. I hope they have changed their ways. What was missing was grace.
Awesome story and thanks for sharing this with us and I can totally relate as well because I recently decided just left the ICOC on today and not looking back and I was only there for October 2022-January 2024 and I only had personal Bible study from September 2023-January 2024 and it gave weird vibes and it’s wasn’t the one for me and it wasn’t matching my beliefs as a non denominational religion and I’m going to find a new church as a non denominational that’s not associated with ICOC and have a new fresh start!
Hi, they've started the evangelisation proclamation. I've just left the church in Edinburgh. They're still pretty small, & hold Sunday services at the Hilton hotel while midweek services are at the leaders flat. It was really intimate - a lot of the principles you mentioned here still operate. I'm a uni student, most of the church consists of uni students. There's less emphasis on tithing though (which I can imagine is because of all the work the generations before us put in). They do mention Kip & how he "apologised" publicly for the cultish doctrine. I guess this was a tactic to keep us from believing what we saw online & convincing us that they've "changed" but now that i'm looking into everything for myself i'm learning that the only "change" was a change in name from "ICOC" to "ICC"
I was in the ICOC from 1991 to 2003. I joined during my freshman year in undergrad and left when I was 31 years old, so I spent my college years and young adulthood in the cult. One of the biggest issues I had with the ICOC was how women were treated as second class citizens. The women were expected to submit to the men in ALL situations - and the men often took it WAY too far. If we were playing a game and a woman was winning, one of the men would complain, "The sisters aren't being submissive!" (that happened A LOT while I was in the campus ministry). I still remember this one time I was shooting pool and won with a nifty bank shot - and the one guy shot me the dirtiest look like "how dare you beat me, you Jezebel!" Some of the guys also struggled with having female bosses (who weren't even in the ICOC); I knew at least one of them had a hard time holding down a job because of his line of work (social services, which is very female-dominated). Then there was the whole bit about needing to be "relatable" - meek and feminine - which I was NOT. I also struggled a great deal with evangelism/recruitment, because I was (still am) an introvert and not comfortable talking to complete strangers.
What kept me in the ICOC was the fear of going to hell, since I was raised very religious. I finally left a few months after the Henry Kreite letter was released in 2003. I initially had hope that things would change for the better, but after goimg back and forth with many of the leadership, I finally decided I was tired of feeling constantly bad about myself and feeling like I was never going to be "good enough".
I eventually became agnostic because I really don't like how most (if not all) organized religions treat women quite poorly. I also refuse to believe a supreme deity (if there is one) can be pigeonholed by some kind of man-made system.
Thanks so much for this video! My husband and I are joining the (normal, not international) church of Christ, and it was really important for me to understand the difference.
I think the thing that was most alarming to me was the housing. I think I'd be really uncomfortable hearing that I needed to move out of my family's home (or dorm) and live with other church members. The needing permission to do things like visit family, and confession not being confidential are also very concerning.
I can totally see how someone could get roped into the group. I think as a Christian you did an amazing job explaining the church fairly because some of the good things you mentioned really are attractive to a Bible believing Christian. One thing I have noticed today in my area (Boston-ish) area is that NONE of the ICOCs in Massachusetts market themselves as the ICOC. Their churches are just called things like Boston Church of Christ, and the websites do not say they are affiliated with the ICOC specifically. Fortunately the ICOC seems very open and transparent about their locations, so it's fairly easy to use an ICOC church locator in order to figure out which churches are ICOC vs CoC 😅
The ICOC much like the COC now functions via cooperation only. The ICOC like the COC can therefore vary quite a bit church to church and region to region. My experiences with COC have been largely disappointing. That doesn't mean I discount the COC entirely. It is absurd to dictate where people live. It is ridiculous to treat "advice" like "God's law". It is wrong to not keep confession confidential. But as a long-time member of the ICOC I can assure you that I was explicitly and repeatedly taught to keep confessions confidential, and if you are seeking help for how best to help someone else with their struggles you ask their permission before you bring it to someone else. Furthermore I was taught that "advice is advice" and that you ought to seek it but follow the path God has for you. In other words, your understanding of ICOC may be incorrect and vary from place to place.
Cults have been the bane of my existence! I was baptized into the icoc when i first started community college. I got out thank God! Then I was tricked and baited into a deliverance ministry cult when I finished university 😭. Cults are everywhere i swear. Everything you describe din the video happened to me! The browbeating sessions. The way they would tell that something that I told them in confidence to the leaders and then make a sermon out of it to manipulate me! It’s real. You’re not crazy. And I’m confirming this.
Been there ... done that. Recruited on college campus circa 1992. So glad I got out after about a year or so.
True about dating outside the church wasnt allowed.
False. I am part of this church.
Your video just popped up so I watched it. Your experience was a lot better than mine. You had good, bad, and ugly. I only had bad & ugly experiences. I definitely have horror stories. I was treated horribly. They definitely thought they were the only ones going to Heaven. They thought it to the point of thinking they could do no wrong. For example, whenever I would say something to my discipler that someone did wrong, she would say "It's not them, it's you" and "You have to be in Heaven with them" and "You keep record of wrong". She literally thought her discipler could do no wrong. Or anybody else. In the chain of command, she was my discipler, and her discipler was my discipler's discipler. My discipler's discipler, along with my discipler, did so many things wrong & unChristian. I didn't see true Christians. I didn't see LOVE. I saw religious people following laws & rules on the outside, but I didn't see good, loving hearts on the inside. They were like dead men's bones inside a white-washed tomb.
On another channel, they talk about the $3xual accusations that have recently surfaced. I'm not a bit surprised, because when someone tried to tell them when it happened, I'm sure they were told "It's not them, it's you". And I'm not surprised they didn't do background checks before someone did Children's Church, because since they are the only ones going to Heaven, no background check is needed. If they did a background check, they would be saying there's a possibility that something bad would come up on it.
My personal, private stuff belongs to me. It is my choice to divulge or not. Plus, no one is going to tell me where to live.
I was briefly involved with the ICOC back in graduate school. The people I met there were super nice, but something did always feel a little bit off. I remember being invited to what I thought was a lunch with a friend who was a member of the church, and when I showed up, it was a Bible study not just with the one guy, but also with his discipleship partner. So they wanted to disciple me together. Both good guys, and I think they had good intentions and were just caught up in a movement that they themselves probably didn't understand, but it seemed off. I didn't agree with some of what they were saying and knew how to defend my view which was frustrating to them, so they didn't invite me to a second discipleship session and we remained friends but I don't think they knew what to do with me haha.
There is still a Church in near Atlanta GA in Marietta, my friend just left the Church I am going to start to protest them and put them on UA-cam. Hope you watch
I would definitely like to hear more. I was raised in the church of Christ (NOT icoc) and am still an active member. It hurts my heart to hear of people earnestly seeking God to be lead so astray. Thankful you got out but maintained your relationship with God.
I’ve seriously thought about making some of these videos myself, I might do it eventually. Was in the church for about 13 years, “fell away” multiple times, was “restored” multiple times etc. It honestly destroyed my faith in God and Jesus. I still haven’t fully repaired and it’s been about 8 years.
I was in for 4 or 5 years back in the 90’s. It was a really great experience for me & I had a lot of exposure to different kinds of ppl from dfrnt backgrounds than myself & just constantly being with all these ppl was an education in itself. I loved the “encouragement”dates,lol. I was in my awkward stage of life as far as my physical appearance goes & those brothers took me out every dang weekend. I needed that. And again it broadened my taste in men because I was constantly going out with guys that weren’t my type. Anyway I eventually met the man I would later end up marrying because of the pressure they put on us to go out & invite ppl to church. Hubby was one of those strangers I approached and invited. He never ended up coming out to a service but he & I kept in touch secretly. I have no regrets from that time.
Thank you for being willing to share this experience, I know you know it's a touchy subject. To answer your question, I don't have a visceral reaction to the word cult because Jesus himself and his apostles were accused of being a cult. I certainly want to be part of a group that puts it's highest priority on learning what the bible says. I do draw the line at any organization that teaches untruths i.e. hellfire, the trinity, Ministers on payroll... that would drive me away. Thank again for putting yourself out there, you are a brave woman.
Isn't it interesting, I went to a "Church" who believed they were the "One True Church" and that every other church didn't have the 'Special Knowledge or interpretation of the Bible" that they had, and that , if you left their church, you would "loose your salvation". The downside is that long after healing, after exit from Cults, you have to relearn, or "Learn" to think for yourself, because in a Cult, you are told what to think and do and follow along with healthy "Critical Thinking" Skills.
Every point you mentioned was the same for mine.
God Bless you for sharing
Very interesting. Would love to hear what is happening with the church now.
Thanks for the feedback!
The church is struggling more now. Kip runs the ICC church now. There are more people making videos now exposing him and his false teachings.
Please tell us more if you can ❤❤😊😊😊😊thks
Will do, thanks for watching!
I’ve been going to the icoc bible talks for about a year and been going to the church for a couple of weeks. Ever since my boyfriend and i decided we wanted to take Christianity serious, they were trying to tear our relationship apart. I never experienced the things you have but definitely see some red flags in the church.
I think the part of confessing my sins to someone would have been a big red flag for me. I just couldn't do it. The Lord already knows all my sins, and I need to repent and turn away from my sins daily, and I love the fact that He still loves me despite all my faults, and has already forgiven all my sins.❤🙏🙌
Helooo Scientology
James 5:15
@@user-zy8ig2bw9z The context seems to be referring to physical healing. James 5:14 "Is anyone among you sick? ... 15. "THEREFORE confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective."
Hey Tatiana, the Bible does command that we confess our sins to "one another." How do you understand this passage?
@@Lotterywinnerify If you are refering to James 5:15-16 I urge you to read the context of that passage. Its referring to physical healing and also its not a salvational issue.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do a deeper dive. I will help you!!!!!
I 100% agree with everything you said. I was in the church for 8 years. The church family aspect was wonderful and is the reason I stayed for so long. Disciple relationships were ridiculous. I had issues as well. I was in two churches LA and Knoxville. LA loving but many of my close friends were leaving. I decided to move to Knoxville, my Dad lived there, I visited him and of course the church and loved the Knoxville church. The Knox church changed leadership and it was a year of hell. They were unloving, persecuting, hypocritical leaders. After leaving Knoxville I went back to LA and Kip came to our church in OC. I wrote him a letter, we were watching a HOPE broadcast and i crawled to him. He was sitting in his seat he looked down. I was sobbing from reliving my life in Knoxville. I handed him the letter and he took it. And I knew, he would save my teens in Knoxville. Months later leadership in Tennessee shifted. Was it just my letter ??? I'm sure there were other things. But, I left the teens. My teen moved to campus and I went to singles. And it was horrible. I left during a big leadership shift. Because everyone flocks to kiss up to them and I slipped away. My discipler showed up to my job and I told my manager and she told her to leave and that's it.
I am grateful to have been a disciple because it kept me pure. I'm grateful for those friendships. I love the singing ( I still sing some of the songs) But they do not like questions of their leadership! That was a lack of faith and unloving of me. Not taking advice IS a huge, no no. To which, I was on the "week and concerned list " for two years. I still talk to a handful and they don't pressure me. We just catch up. I have lots of great memories as well as hopeless. Weird. Your video, is accurate. The sharing," I like your shoes," YES used it. But I didn't stress if they didn't come.
🤷♀️ "sister , where is your heart?" 🤷♀️ I got nothin.
Funny now. Then, not so much.
I too feel very responsible for the lives I hurt being a member. I also unknowingly saved a few, i let a few teens or women read my QT journal and no one came back after reading it. One day I read it and THAT is when I realized I needed to get out. And I did. Slipped right through the cracks. Few phone calls. Grateful no one fought very hard to get me back.
Your exit story would be interesting.
Take care.
I did two stints with the Boston church. It took me many, many years to get over the trauma I suffered.
I'm still not over it
Watching this video is giving me scary flashbacks
I was groomed to be a leader because they saw potential and would teach me how to conduct “Bible studies” with their book that was already written instead of it being Holy Spirit led which i questioned because I’m like where is the Holy Spirit in this ? And we couldn’t baptize people ourselves we would have to get permission from leaders and they would make the final decision if their ready. And I questioned why are we stopping people from salvation if it’s from God and it’s free? So I noticed the more i questioned the more I became a problem. I remember there was a member who had a go fund me for kidney failure and hasn’t been coming to church and my region leader rebuked me because she said that money could go to someone inside our region because the other member hasn’t been going to church. Please pray for my mom and aunt who are still in there my mom is seeing more through the Holy Spirit. It saddens me because a lot of people could be married by now but aren’t do to the same principles and a lot of people struggling to leave do to friendships and not trusting God. Jer.29:11 .
I remember before I was baptized I went to our region’s women’s ministry leader to see if I was ready to get baptized and I remember asking her if I can wait until Sunday so my grandma could come and see and she pulled the “if you were to die rn where you go” card yet I was meeting with her and another girl who’s decently high up in the church deciding if I should get baptized or not? I still love them like my brothers in sisters Christ but they literally decided my salvation for me
I left the ICOC in 2020 right before Covid, and it’s so sad to hear that things have not changed.
I wanted to add a point to your mention of them pushing people to get rebaptized if they were previously baptized at a different church.
.
For us, your baptism was only considered valid if it was done under their view of doctrine (baptismal regeneration). Otherwise you were required to be rebaptized.
Interesting my experience has been the opposite but this is recent and this congregation is not apart of the umbrella system anymore but have residual feels.
When they told me that my grandma isn't saved after she spend her whole life sharing the gospel to me, others, praying for me, how I got saved because she guided me, I knew I had to get out
My younger sister is in one of these… she’s constantly inviting me to her church. God forbid I say no I’m not going. The asking for permission to do anything is it for me. It’s the constant in her face 24/7 for me. Yep she does live in a house with her sisters. She’s on campus 7 days a week recruiting people for her church and failing her 2 or 3 classes. It’s her going broke and not taking care of herself for me. Plus she’s always trying to put her input in my “worldly” relationship🤦🏾♀️
You have to get her out before she has to leave school. I was a member over twenty years ago. I actually got kicked out of the Sacramento chapter. I'm a bad man! lol But seriously you must rescue your sister. If there's anything I can do to help I will. They rob you of self-determination. She must be saved!
I like the lights in the background now. It's very calming and not like the two bright lights that made it hard for some to see your beautiful face 😊
Glad you like them! Thanks!
I remember they were pushing so hard for me to not pursue law school and to go into the ICOC School of Ministry. They made me a bible talk leader, and I KNEW doing ministry was not my thing. I had to mentor the women in my bible talk, and they were older than me both in age and spiritually. My mentor was a girl who just moved here and I had bad vibes from the beginning. She would say racist things to me, would tell me to dress in baggy and covering clothes bc I had a “body,” and told me what I could/could not wear. This was after 2 yrs in the church and not having issues with how I dressed before
Hey! Thank you for sharing your story. My name is Roy Clemenz and was born into the Atlanta church. I left in my early thirties and have been sharing my story on my podcast called the balanced male podcast. I would love to have you on and have a conversation about all that you and I experienced. Lemme know if your interested and keep sharing your story!!
My other daughter reached out for help cuz she was being molested by her father. We all waited and no help was forthcoming. It was really bad. I was told to trust the brothers , that they'd take care of it, but nothing happened😢
It's hard to say what would be a deal breaker. I Remmber thinking in my late 20s that I would be very susceptible to a cult. I felt a big spiritual whole in my life. I felt like I needed direction and to be appreciated. I needed to love myself and to really, really love God. Right now, I feel wouldn't put up with any of it.
I left the church in 2003. I supose there is always going to be 2 types of people. Those he feel like a victim, and those that take responsability of there own selves, and there decision to rebel. For me, I knnow the word of God, I understand the cost of what s a Disciple of Jesus. In my personal opinion, God willing, I have another chance, from what I know of the ICOC/ICC, this is the new generation of what was the first Disples, or Apostles. No disrespect to anyone who feels otherwise. Sometimes people fail us, we can get hurt, miss-understood and if we do not deal with it when we need to, those feeling will grow. It happen to me. I get it! May everyone have an amazing weekend💛
I came across one of these at the University of Cincinnati. But I was a little more skeptical. I was 24 years old. I wanted so bad to trust them I went to many bible studies and hung out at events but deep down I knew something was off. I never allowed myself to get into deep because at the end of the day I was there to handle my business and graduate. I just stopped hanging around those people when I started questioning if they were really my friends or not. I didn’t have time for it. To much money at stake for my education to be messing around with them.
I was once a member of this church in London, Left in 2003
I left in 1998 and it's as you describe it. Along with the cult-like social atmosphere, I personally believe there was fulltime leadership involved with drug trafficking and shady dealings on the side. Some weird experiences I remember raise my suspicions.
Has something similar with the church I was in called The Local Churches
This is going to be a long comment but I'll share it anyway so that its out there. I was already a Christian before I met this group. This happened when I was going through changes in my life where I felt I needed to be a part of a spiritual group so I could get through it. Kind of interesting how all this took a different direction. So the only way I heard about them was from a girl I liked a lot that invited me to go to her church in college. I only went because of her so I never truely had the motivation to join. To my knowledge, I don't think they ever found out the reason why I went and did "bible studies" with them to "join," lol.
What I observed in my time with her was that I couldn't hang out with her unless she talked about going to church and other church stuff. I enjoyed having those conversations and I felt like I needed that, but then it got so tiring and boring. It felt like she didn't want to talk about anything else. I had strong feelings for her because we hung out a lot, and enjoyed each other's company that my emotions took over me. And I can be a very passionate and caring person over a woman I like if I'm honest. When she stopped talking to me, it was the first time I've ever had my heart punctured figuratively speaking. But it also felt like my heart literally got stabbed. It was one of the worst mistakes I ever did in my life.
I knew better and I sensed this group was bad but I let my feelings of wanting to spend time with her get the best of me at the same time. It changed me as a person and my perspective on the world. I got to know a side of me I never knew I had and to be more careful. It was odd she said she felt like she was pushing me away from God. Even though we both helped each other get closer to God. She was too deep into this cult sadly. I cared about her so much that I thought about telling her parents about her being in a cult so they could find out how to get her out. But I no longer wanted to get involved with this situation anymore because I felt like I wasn't safe.
Hopefully... her parents found out about her involvement. Even if she no longer wants to talk to me, I still care about her. I want to move on but I still feel it even though its been a long time. I'm hopefull I'll move on with life and leave it all behind.
Good video and they do definitely think a small population like them is the only one going to heaven. Oh and they said I would "lose my salvation" if I left them. They thought they had no wrong doctrine, which was another red flag. But one thing that I never lost at all was my beliefs and my human psyche.
Stay safe everyone and don't let people manipulate and take control of your mind. Listen to that gut feeling/intuition too. They aren't any different than JWs and Mormons in certain ways.
Gods got your back bro❤️
I was in the ICOC for 25 years! Yikes! After the infamous Henry Kriete letter things really began to change and we no longer had this hard core pressure that I felt in the 90s and early 2000s. Then I got married and I just didn’t care what leaders thought of me and I did the minimum and gave a minimum and no one ever really challenged us. We stayed because it was comfortable knowing the people in this group for so long and there were so many who had loved me and served me when I had babies for example. But eventually I got to the point of I really wanted good Bible teaching. I was so bored at ICOC for 10 plus years I had not really paid attention because the teaching was so shallow. I also wanted my kids to have better Bible teaching. So we found a church that had those qualities and never looked back. I just wish we had left 15 plus years ago. But I am so thankful I married young, because my hubs made me feel free and secure within this rigid church structure!
What church did you find after you left?
Would be very interested as well as the other commenter to know where you ended up and around what time you left! One of the reasons I left was because of the lack of depth in teachings (many many many self help, topical sermons with little scripture references vs teaching through the Bible) & unbiblical shift towards female pastors…we didn’t *technically* have female pastors, but it started with women doing “sharing,” and then testing the waters further by having women preaching sermons since it was *international women’s month*… I am a woman and definitely far from patriarchal, and believe women can actually do a lot more in the church/in ministry than many in my current CoC congregation believe, but I think God & the Bible have clearly defined roles for men & women in terms of church leadership and that was being lost in my ICOC church. Also a lot of new age/eastern mysticism concepts being introduced under the guise of “spiritual formation.”
I grew up in ICOC so the Kriete letter happened while I was still a toddler, but I actually left when I was finally seeking God/Christ a few years ago, one of the reasons being because they would not baptize me due to not following “advice” I received while doing the studies befOre I was supposed to be baptized, so therefore was labeled prideful and unrepentant & not allowed to be baptized (I chose to get baptized at a CoC since there was water available & I was ready)
But like I mentioned earlier above, I definitely think ICOC (at least all the congregations I’ve seen) now have swung the pendulum in the opposite direction, from legalistic controlling to bowing down to current culture and everyone’s pleasure, all in the name of “not wanting to be how they used to be”
@@paymonm9065 I ended up in a Calvary Chapel, their sermons can be found online Calvary Chapel Chino Hills. It is pastor Jack Hibbs, verse by verse expository Bible teaching. I look forward to it every week.
I ended up in a Calvary Chapel, their sermons for my specific church can be found online Calvary Chapel Chino Hills. It is pastor Jack Hibbs, verse by verse expository Bible teaching. I look forward to it every week. And yes, I didn’t want to get “political” but you are absolutely right. The ICOC is now no different than the world. They do not teach a biblical worldview on matters of culture, so you have a very weak church with lots of confused people that sway with the waves of culture. Especially now that culture has exploded with this anti-christian values, but ICOC is silent or they align with whatever the popular thing is. That was actually the primary reason we left. I didn’t want my children to be taught Sunday school by “disciples” who hate our country because of BLM told them to, while they would never show up at anything having to do with pro-life issues because it’s a “political issue” they would say. Some of their churches have been busy reading White Fragility and other woke crap. Not one pastor in the ICOC ever offered prayers for law enforcement officers, but parroted medias talking points on racism. I couldn’t stomach it.
@@mccallmemaybe_ I am a minority myself. In case you are wondering.
I was in the JCOC Which formed part of ICOC. I must say I really learned a lot of positive when I was in campus ministry. I think I got protected from lot of bad things "worldly things" happening. I learned patriotic behaviour and communism and socialism in church, which US citizens are made to hate those governing models. To me what you said is all good. Especially when you are young and directionless. What happened at the top, i wouldnt know?! Lastly, the disciples in the book of Acts were actually a cult believe it or not. Nothing wrong with that. It was a community that had a perpose. Now, I am a family man, I don't think I can do those things that I used to do then. I wish I have the energy.
My daughter was a nanny for some leaders there, and yes, she was paid.
I joined the ICC 6 years ago and all that you are saying is what they practice there too. I recently left and was struggling with thoughts of going back. However, after watching this video I'm realising it's also a cult and I wasn't wrong for leaving. All those thoughts and feelings I had were true. Thank you so much for this video. This is probably the most genuine video about the ICC/ICOC.
I hope you don’t mind my commenting, but I was in the ICOC for decades and left nearly six years ago. The only thing I regret is that I didn’t leave sooner. The ICC is just the remixed version of the ICOC, led by a man whose delusions of grandeur and twisting of Scripture have led many people astray and many souls spiritually shipwrecked. At the same time, I understand the pull of belonging to such an organization. I remember struggling with thoughts of returning, too. I have been where you are and my heart goes out to you. I implore you to continue to pursue your relationship with God outside of the confines of the ICC. They do not own your faith or your walk. I sincerely hope that you will stand firm in your stance. Also, please honor the courage and faith it took to leave such a spiritually, emotionally, and psychologically damaging situation. I celebrate your decision and pray that God will restore everything that was taken or weakened by your involvement in that church. 🙏🏾
@@aic0809 thank you so much for your message and encouragement ❤
@@TheJenniferLoretta You are so very welcome! I will certainly keep you in my prayers as you navigate this new chapter in your faith. 🙏🏾🙏🏾
The Church is a master at manipulation and gaslighting techniques.
@@thomasouellette8987 i agree with you
Well said, fair, balanced. Good, bad, and ugly. I was a for over 25 year member. Been to many many churches since leaving 13 years ago, and it's been hard finding groups with as much love for one another. Hats off church. However, come on, do you really think that you're the only group making through the pearly gates. Wake up! God is not that small.
I feel the same! There was a lot of good in the ICOC, but the control was overbearing. And it's not easy finding a good church nowadays. Thanks for sharing your experience!
I’m a new sub, where are your children now.
True true
recent college recruitee. already born again and saved. told that i'm going to hell for not being baptized into their church, "according to the Scriptures." it's the same as described.
As a former member I was also told this. This was preached to us. How dare someone set the boundaries on the Kingdom of God.
Its still happening all over the US, and among many of the colleges where I live in Boston. Pray for the campus ministers who have been indoctrinated to invalidate others’ salvation and for the vulnerable students who get involved w the ICOC.
I was a member of the ICOC. I started going with my mother when I was 10 years old. I got baptized when I was 17 and I left when I was 20. I've had PTSD with the amount of abuse that I went through during that time. I became a counselor and now I work at a domestic violence agency where I learned that the cult is an abusive institution. Abuse is a pattern of behavior where one person want's to gain and maintain power and control over someone else. Abuse isn't only physical. It's emotional, threats, intimidation, isolation, limiting independence, violating privacy, financial abuse...and basically everything that leaders and members of the ICOC do!!! Rebuking is emotional abuse! Telling people that they're going to hell is a threat! The leaders watching you and warning you is intimidation. Being told that you can't hang out with old friends is isolation. Making you go door knocking and to mid-week and having no time to yourself, and telling you who to date is limiting independence. We, former members of the ICOC are survivors of spiritual abuse! Thank you for posting this video!!
This sums it up perfectly. I'm sorry you had to go through it too, but glad you got out!! Thank you for your awesome comment!
This sounds a bit like the campus ministry that I’ve found myself in