I'm clearly gonnna be hit on this, but the whole Leaf vs Green debate is a topic on its own. I don't feel neither neither side truly has enough evidence to say otherwise, but it seems that unlike Lyra and Kris who did appear in the same game (Pokemon Masters), Leaf and Green don't ever appear at the same time, so thus it can be speculated that they are the same actually but depending on developers or marketers, they are called by one name or the other. Personally I feel they are meant to be the same as they both are based on the original unused female trainer of Gen 1, Leaf using Pokemon that Green would have in Let's Go, and even her design in Let's go heavily resembling that of Leaf including her hair and bag. Let alone the dress just being a reverse colouring of what she wore in FRLG. That's my personal opinion at least, but again no definitive proof like Kris and Lyra to truly give one side the win here and i'm not here to debate this. Just here to present the cut content of this game today.
It's been confirmed that the three legendary beasts of Johto are based off of large CATS, not dogs. Entei is based off of a lion, Raikou is based off of a saber-tooth tiger and Suicune is based off of a cheetah.
@@WayWardWonderer So can I see the official source from TPC, GameFreak, or Nitnendo that says what they actually are based on? cause I actually am interested ngl
@@WayWardWonderer Didn't they show them as non-descript actual dogs inside the burnt tower before turning into the legendary beasts in the Pokemon Generations anime? Not sure if that canonises it, or if i'm just remembering it wrong
The fact that there's sprites of Red and Blue with their original outfits implies that Game Freak might not have intended to update everyone's designs originally. On that point, I believe that there's Pokegear icons in HGSS that have the older hat for Ethan, as well as an unused set for Kris.
i think lyra is a result of them not finding a way to update kris into a modern(for 2008) design even in mastersex she's out of place; everyone else looks modern and fits well together, paldea notwithstanding, but kris looks so outdated by comparison; her design SCREAMS 90s and i love her, but i don't know if there's a way to update her design in a way that feels true to the original, while still feeling late-2000s like gold's redesign was.
Maybe one day we'll get a true remake that finally features this fight. Also agreed on the Wireless Link. I was hoping it'd work with all GBA games in place of a Link Cable
12:34 Okay, I didn't know that despite knowing that there's almost 100 trainers in FRLG that share the exact same names with trainers from RSE in both English and Japanese. Interesting!
The FRLG e-Reader content wasn't cancelled. It released, as did the Emerald e-cards, but only in Japan. Ut was only scrapped for the international releases
Same with the oldseamap. Such a shame, because even today that the events have been recreated and pretty much anyone can get them, having those pokemon caught in non-Japanese copies might flag them as illegal.
I wonder if the cut sevii island maps were going to have more on them if they were kept but perhaps were named as such cause while not a full island they might have important things planned on them. Trainer tower could have been its own island. Also fun fact if you do a randomiser of these games and randomise tms you can see the unused bug tm icon
@@Venemofthe888 well those were routes in the end and I imagine they had some plans in the end but probably not important enough or just were able to compress to what they had
@@TheObsessiveGamerHello! May I ask you what you think about the cut routes on the Sevii Islands? Do you think they were cut because the developers didn't have enough time to finish them? Or alternatively, do you think that they were cut simply because the developers decided to go in a different design direction, where these routes weren't necessary anymore? Thank you in advance!
@@colokolito1 Depends. I think the ones for Isle 7 were more for design as I think it was an expansion on the caves they had there but thought it was too much work or too unnecessary to pad it that hard Isle 4 ones are trickier as they aren't ones you normally can even connect to the existing Isle 4. This could be either a case of revisioning the whole island that left those unused for maybe they wanted to do more there but it was cut for time.
@@TheObsessiveGamer Thank you very much for your reply! Personally, I like to think that both the cut routes on Four Island and Seven Island were simply cut due to design decisions, because it would make me sad if they were cut due to lack of time honestly. But also, I think it makes more sense. Because, for Seven Island, we know that those routes south of the Tanoby Ruins were cut early in development, so I doubt it had to do with time issues. And as for the routes around Four Island, like you said, there's no way to connect them to the existing Four Island, meaning that the entire Island was probably reworked. My personal theory is that the Daycare and the entrance to Icefall Cave were meant to be on these cut routes, but the developers decided to put them in the town of Four Island itself, making these routes around Four Island redundant. I have one more question for you: do you think they had planned to bring back the Pikachu Surfing minigame too? I know that there's data for a house interior on the same route where Pikachu's surfing minigame was in Pokemon Yellow, but I always just assumed this house was for a Move Tutor that later got scrapped or something. What do you think?
For those of you who saying that Green and Leaf aren't the same character: Yes they are. Masters basically confirmed it by giving Leaf basically the same personality as Green in Let's Go, giving one of Green's mons as her lodge pair (Clefable), and confirmed that she knows Chase and Elaine, and said trainers seem to treat her like she's Green in relation to the Kantrio. Her unit even references the LGPE games multiple times, like how her eevee has a move called "let's go" and how one of her topics in the lodge is Pewter Crunchies. Why TF would Leaf's unit make so many references to a game that she never made an appearance in? And this isn't getting into the fact that they have a fuckton of design similarities, and how Mix Leaf and Blastoise is guaranteed to be coming in the near future... Edit: Well now Leaf has a Blastoise for her Mix Pair in Masters, proving my point even further...
And yes, PMEX Leaf does have a very similar personality to LGPE Green, if you read some of her dialogue you'll notice that she actually says and does a lot of things that give off LGPE Green vibes. Here are a bunch of examples that illustrate my point: "By the way, Valerie, about you wanting to become a Pokémon… Were you serious?" "I love that!" "And I actually know a way... A way to become a Pokémon." "Yeah. I'm sure it's exactly the kind of thing you're looking for, Valerie." "Yes, if you follow what I say. All right..." "Plus...we're both still hiding an ace up our sleeve, aren't we?" "You see a lot of Trainers keep their Pokémon out of their Poké Balls on Pasio, right?" "I'm glad to be able to walk around with my Eevee, but it does worry me a bit… He's just too cute! Somebody might want to kidnap him!" "Or maybe a talent agent might want to make him a Pokémon model! Would that mean we couldn't be together anymore?! Oh no! Wh-where'd I put his Poké Ball?! I have to protect him!" "I was so jealous when I heard Red caught Snorlax..." "Clefairy! Aah, I love you sooo much... I just can't even-""I used to search all over Mt. Moon in Kanto, hoping to find a Clefairy..." "If we want to get to know each other better, all we have to do is battle a bunch more, right? Come on, let's do it right now! Don't expect me to go easy on you just because we're friends, though!" "*giggle* Kidding, kidding... I've got to do some more training before the two of us battle again!" "Red and I were totally fine coming here by ourselves, but I seem to recall someone just BEGGING us to let him in on this, no?" "As far as I can tell, you didn't really pay that much attention to anyone but yourself back then." "And weren't you the one who got too cocky and said "I am the most powerful Trainer in the world!" when you were Champion?" "Hehehe! That's Blue for you.” "Whaaat? That's gotta be me and Moltres!" "You gotta be kidding me!" "That's a shame." "Aww! I lost!" "Pokémon are so cute, even their smell is comforting! You agree with me, right?" "It's our secret! Don't tell ANYONE...OK?" "Oh, just admit that you like it already!" My post on reddit titled "Personality and Dialogue similarities between LGPE Green and PMEX Leaf" goes into further depth as to how they actually have very similar personalities.
@@darkfrost-star6317 technically her name is Blue. The rival in Red and Blue was originally named Green in Japan, and in the Adventures manga her name is Blue. So yes, Green and Leaf aren't the same character. Green is the male rival, and Leaf is the female playable character of FRLG.
@@stellarsub-orbital9922 I know that, I'm just using their western names since I know that people from the west are primarily going to be the ones reading my comment. Don't need to get all pedantic here lol. Admittedly I actually do prefer calling the girl Blue and the boy Green as well-
Lol, I knew I wasn't hearing things. I'm assuming that he recorded it and this is the raw take that he forgot to splice. Probably was tired at the time of editing the video and wanted to get it out soon.
@3:59 I'm unaware at game design, but you said the sprite for the main character looking sideways was not used in the final game. But if they use head directions, you can see when he reaches for a monster before surf, just for a second, the character does tilt the head diagonally. Just an observation
the one thing I always found so weird about Gen 1's two remakes, for both Gen 3's version, and the lets go series, is why they never remade Team Rocket's battle theme for both of those games- like that's legit the most missed opportunity in existence. it deff makes Team Rocket somewhat more bland to fight against because they never had their Gen 2/4 battle theme remade for the gen 1 remakes🤔
Strongly disagree. Her design in Let's Go is literally just her design from FR/LG with the colors flipped to match the R/G art and her hat removed, similarly to how Red and Blue have their R/G designs. Her hair is identical and everything.
Ok so the reason why leaf and green are not the same characters but more like just mirror versions of each other is because in Japanese Green is named Blue and who we know as Blue is named Green so they probably didn’t want it to be confusing with the Japanese audience
Best way to explain away Green and Leaf is to just say Green is grown up leaf. Probably changed their name when they became an adult, kinda like Blue/Gary.
isometric is soooo not the way you wanna describe the FRLG overworld sprites, nothing in that game is truly isometric ! it just has a better top down perspective !
Yay, my favourite Pokémon games finally got covered here! I absolutely loved this video ObsessiveGamer. It was so interesting to know more about these games development cycles that I didn't know before.
Man, I wished they'd kept the original sprites for Red and Oak instead of the new ones which looks so meh in comparison. Great video, dude, it's always nice to find something new about a game I played so many times
It bothers me that people continue to call them "Legendary Dogs" when A, they're known as the Legendary Beasts, and B, as you mentioned, they're clearly based on cats.
@@FyreCh There was a good amount in this video that just made me go “that’s wrong” or “that’s just speculation,” but that one really made me go “yeah man, this isn’t it.”
Maybe the cut islands is where you would have caught the event legendary pokémon originally, but they changed their mind because of running out of development time.
I assume the head tilting was an idle animation. It's a super common animation for 2D spites to do. Pretty sure we didn't have idle animations until Gen 6.
obligatory engagement comment that says the legendary beasts are based on big cats 🤓 actually learned a couple new things, and i continue to wish theyd just let us beat up an old man (oak) for sport without cheats or romhacks
idk if its been said here, dont care, just wanted to come in and clear up leaf info in vid. leaf and green are both two different characters and the same character. ones from the adventures manga, the others the protag player character from gen 1. theyre basically just two versions of the SAME character, but youll never see those two versions in the same room despite being distinctly different characters.
Bro green was a manga character that wasn’t in any game until let’s go. She was cut and in the series lore they are listed as separate characters officially by game freak. Same as Kris and Lyra. But exist in current canon separately. I’m not sure why this confusing to people because green actually has a defined character were as leaf is just female red. By that logic blaziken and latias should be the same character as well. No. The original green concept from gen 1’s development spawned two separate characters. That’s not uncommon in game development.
Because they're not... While it's unconfirmed in the English translation, one of the manga confirm they're different characters by stating Green is several years younger than Red (compared to Leaf who is around the same age). What's confusing / conflicting is that one of the manga has Green growing up to be Leaf but this gets contradicted by the story in Masters Ex. Tldr; GameFreak have never confirmed one way or another if they're the same or separate characters and all the material makes it hard to determine which is the case.
To those of you who saying that they aren't: Yes they are. Masters basically confirmed it by giving Leaf basically the same personality as Green in Let's Go, giving one of Green's mons as her lodge pair (Clefable), and confirmed that she knows Chase and Elaine which should be impossible if her and Green aren't the same entity. Her unit even references the LGPE games multiple times, like how her eevee has a move called "let's go" and how one of her topics in the lodge is Pewter Crunchies. Why TF would Leaf's unit make so many references to a game that she never made an appearance in? And this isn't getting into the fact that they have a fuckton of design similarities...
@@wiiownsps3and360I don't think that comparison really works because Blaziken/Latias are supposed to be an entire species not one specific character... EDIT: Also another reason why this comparison doesn't work is because the two situations didn't play out the same way. With Blaziken and Latias, it was more like they made a concept for a potential pokemon to be made, and they split that pokemon into two: making Blaziken and Latias as two brand new pokemon species. With Green/Leaf however; it was more like they made a concept for a female protag/rival in gen 1, then they scraped it, then when they made FRLG they made a female protag (Leaf) based on the scraped OG gen 1 girl protag, then in let's go they gave Leaf a counterpart by fusing her design with the unused gen 1 heroine's, creating Green. So... Yeah...
So Green is most likely based off of the character from the manga (and some early concept art) while Leaf is a new original design they made for FireRed/LeafGreen. Green predates Leaf's design so I think this is the true intention. Its kind of like how Kris and Lyra are 2 different characters. IDK why people think these 2 are the same character since they CLEARLY have 2 different designs and Green's design predates Leaf's but IDK.
@@thebandit6886 the manga isn't canon to the game's lore as it meant to be it's own thing. that's why Crystal and Lyra were the same person there when they weren't in Masters.
But Leaf is ALSO based on the girl from the early concept art, also LGPE Green and Leaf technically have more striking design similarities than Classic Red and Remake Red do. Master's also gave Leaf one of Green's mons (Clefable) as her lodge pair sooooo...
@darkfrost-star6317 but the thing is that both classic Red and FRLG Red are confirmed to be the same person from alternate timelines where their story are slightly different. However, there's no in- universe explanation that both Green and Leaf are the same despite their similarities. Plus, all of the spin-offs and main series's games implied the two to be different people with their names and personalities.
@@genkidom except Green and Leaf literally never co-exist with each other, not even in Masters. Instead it seems like Masters just keeps adding more and more of Green's traits onto Leaf, such as giving her a clefable for her lodge pair (in which fyi lodge pairs are only ever mons that characters canonically have in the mainline games), giving her more of Green's weirdness and sassiness, giving her the same mindset of blurring the lines between humans and pokemon (see how Leaf played along with Valerie's desire to become a pokemon and compare it to how Green joked about making the player one of her mons), and Leaf actually KNOWING who Chase and Elaine are. And the most damning evidence of all, literally no one mentions Green as a completely separate entity from Leaf, not even Chase and Elaine, or even Blaine even tho he's the guy who randomly brought her up in LGPE. Instead they're going to be giving Leaf a Blastoise as her mix pair, literally Green's starter, as the Kantrio mix pairs are referencing their classic counterpart's starters.
I really love FRLG. My only issue with them is this: they turned the ending credits into a medley, as they did in ORAS. They kind of ruined themes that are so "iconic". My guess is that they needed a version that's way longer that the original, because there where many more people that worked for the games.
No unfortunately 3 dogs, celbi and mew was going to be events at one point unfortunately like Eon Ticket but unfortunately was not released... the celbi was going be special eReader card for Physical event and dog dog event be for other 2 dogs and and ran out time for the mew event...
The sevii isles are some of the best locations in pokémon. They didn't need to add them but they went above and beyond and added 7 entirely new locations. And the music is so good. Wish there was more johto music to distinct it but it's great
I didn't know Professor Oak was planned to be a trainer battle in this game too. I think they've been playing around with that idea for a long time now. We got teased with a Professor Oak battle in Pokemon Let's Go. For a moment it felt like he was going to be the Champion you faced against on the Pokemon league, but unfortunately not.
that‘s interesting! That beta design for red‘s character (as seen at around 0:35) reminds me a lot of how they did the trainer sprites a few years later in Diamond/Pearl/Platinum…
My favourite game, currently replaying fire red after I found my old gameboy and copies of fire red and leaf green, finally traded between them to get starters and trade evolutions, it’s so sick
Things like bug type tms are not inherently interesting, theyre always programmed as redundancies so the game doesnt crash. Same reason EVERY pokemon (even event legendaries) all have shiny sprites, even if theyre never meant to be found that way.
Worth noting it's never been confirmed whether Leaf and Green are the same character or not. While it's unconfirmed in the games (English or Japanese), one of the manga imply they're different characters by stating Green is several years younger than Red (compared to Leaf who is around the same age). What's confusing / conflicting is that one of the other manga has Green growing up to be Leaf but this gets contradicted by Leaf's story in Masters Ex. Tldr; GameFreak have never confirmed one way or another if they're the same or separate characters and all the material makes it hard to determine which is the case.
@@Absbor Actually funny enough the designer said in an interview that they were designed off a lion, tiger and leopard. So basically they're big cats lol
there's really a lot of things here that you just casually take for granted once you've messed with the hacking tools and romhacks way too much some things not put here include the ability of the games to acknowledge that you have no space for key items, even though it's now impossible in these remakes to legitimately have no space for key items if you still want to see this in action without messing with the scripts themselves, i think you can change all the key items into normal items and stuff your bag with junk you don't need
@@TheObsessiveGamer Yeah, the monster element was more pronounced early on. Even cute little Pikachu was less cute originally. It applies to humans too, especially their expressions. There's no more cocky grins or anything, just vacant smiles lol
Hello and thank you for the great video! May I ask you what do you think about the cut routes on the Sevii Islands? Do you think they were cut because the developers didn't have enough time to make them? Or alternatively, do you think that they were cut simply because the developers decided to go in a different design direction? Thank you in advance!
God FR and LG are honestly still some of my favorite games to this day. That was how you do a remake. I really wish I liked HG and SS but they just didn’t have the same magic to them
Good video! One small gripe though... Leaf and Green are not the same person. And the reason that they don't call her Green in the files, is that in japan, the rival we know as "Blue" is called "Green". And the character we know as Green in Let's Go! is a different character.
Thanks and Leaf and Green...is an interesting debate on its own. I would personally say neither side truly has enough evidence to say otherwise, but it seems that unlike Lyra and Kris who did appear in the same game (Pokemon Masters), Leaf and Green don't ever appear at the same time, so thus it can be speculated that they are the same actually but depending on developers or marketers, they are presented differently. Also i'm aware about Green being Blue and Blue being Green in Japanese.
Your rival uses the opposite version color for name recommendations. It's implying throughout FR LG that Leaf is the female protagonist, Red is the male ofc, and then Green is the male rival. Yea yea, I get it, you want it to be Blue. Every other game says Blue. But we all forget that every single generational remake is an alternate universe. After all, Green is literally manga Gary, and Blue is manga Leaf. You can see the male Green/Blue is Japanese/English, and the female Blue/Green is vice versa. Blue, for whatever strange reason, was entirely stripped as a colored naming concept throughout the span of generation 3's Kanto. If you think it says BLUE for the Rival's name suggestion, you are a victim of either the Mandela Effect or a questionable long-term memory. Leaf and Green do appear at the same time, because they're different people entirely. Green is merely the English name commonly given to the female protagonist, but not here.
11:36 I know they changed a lot of the back sprites for Kanto Pokemon for this games when transitioning them from ruby and sapphire, so the “Beta” squirtle’s back sprite looks exactly like it’s back sprite in ruby and sapphire. Maybe at one point they were going to keep squirtle’s back sprite the same at one point.
Japanese people call green Aoi = Blue, which is why it's so confusing for us and we keep calling Aoi different fictional games, also why why have a Pokemon Blue instead of green 😂 the stubbornness and lack of wanting to understand a different culture that still lives up to 2024
I do know this fact and I wish they had kept to what it was meant to be back then. At this point though since everyone is use to it, we just stick to what is the western canon of the games here.
@@TheObsessiveGamer appreciate the forwardness of it, I just never got the point of censoring food, speech, actual plot etc to manipulate what people should want to see, rather than letting them decide whether it is good or not for themselves 😅
I think even if they consider them the same character they were designed to be different. The design of Green and Leaf are very opposite, one seems like a mature rival while the other is designed like a girl next door friend. Wait they must be different because in Japan Green and Blue are swapped so having green be a female character wouldn't make sense to them, idk unless she is named Blue in the Japanese code? Or uh, Water?
Red with blue hair? So he would look more like Boyfriend from Friday Night Funkin? As far as names go, I just simplify things. I call both of the protagonists Fire Red and Leaf Green. Fire and Leaf being titles that come before their names.
the three legendary dogs? they planned to add Zacian, Zamazenta and a 3rd one in the Kanto games? How interesting! But why drop the argument and then talk about the Legendary Beasts out of nowhere?
I'm clearly gonnna be hit on this, but the whole Leaf vs Green debate is a topic on its own. I don't feel neither neither side truly has enough evidence to say otherwise, but it seems that unlike Lyra and Kris who did appear in the same game (Pokemon Masters), Leaf and Green don't ever appear at the same time, so thus it can be speculated that they are the same actually but depending on developers or marketers, they are called by one name or the other.
Personally I feel they are meant to be the same as they both are based on the original unused female trainer of Gen 1, Leaf using Pokemon that Green would have in Let's Go, and even her design in Let's go heavily resembling that of Leaf including her hair and bag. Let alone the dress just being a reverse colouring of what she wore in FRLG.
That's my personal opinion at least, but again no definitive proof like Kris and Lyra to truly give one side the win here and i'm not here to debate this. Just here to present the cut content of this game today.
It's been confirmed that the three legendary beasts of Johto are based off of large CATS, not dogs. Entei is based off of a lion, Raikou is based off of a saber-tooth tiger and Suicune is based off of a cheetah.
@@WayWardWondererThey'll always be dogs to me lol.
@@WayWardWonderer So can I see the official source from TPC, GameFreak, or Nitnendo that says what they actually are based on? cause I actually am interested ngl
@@WayWardWonderer Didn't they show them as non-descript actual dogs inside the burnt tower before turning into the legendary beasts in the Pokemon Generations anime? Not sure if that canonises it, or if i'm just remembering it wrong
I mean, in Japan she is suppose to be Blue.
The fact that there's sprites of Red and Blue with their original outfits implies that Game Freak might not have intended to update everyone's designs originally.
On that point, I believe that there's Pokegear icons in HGSS that have the older hat for Ethan, as well as an unused set for Kris.
i think lyra is a result of them not finding a way to update kris into a modern(for 2008) design
even in mastersex she's out of place; everyone else looks modern and fits well together, paldea notwithstanding, but kris looks so outdated by comparison; her design SCREAMS 90s and i love her, but i don't know if there's a way to update her design in a way that feels true to the original, while still feeling late-2000s like gold's redesign was.
GameFreak continues to troll us with the Prof fight. I wish they did more stuff with the wireless link cable
Maybe one day we'll get a true remake that finally features this fight.
Also agreed on the Wireless Link. I was hoping it'd work with all GBA games in place of a Link Cable
Wireless... Cable?
@@zekeiwa5837 Metal.....Gear....?
The Rapidash logo for the Seagallop makes a lot of sense since Rapidash's japanese name is literally "Gallop".
12:34 Okay, I didn't know that despite knowing that there's almost 100 trainers in FRLG that share the exact same names with trainers from RSE in both English and Japanese. Interesting!
I got FireRed for my 11th birthday. For a while, I hardly ever played any other game. I couldn't have been happier.
The FRLG e-Reader content wasn't cancelled. It released, as did the Emerald e-cards, but only in Japan. Ut was only scrapped for the international releases
Same with the oldseamap. Such a shame, because even today that the events have been recreated and pretty much anyone can get them, having those pokemon caught in non-Japanese copies might flag them as illegal.
A few of these i knew about, but i still really enjoy watching other youtubers talking about the cut content. Its always so fascinating.
Glad you found enjoyment in this video still while knowing the material :)
I wonder if the cut sevii island maps were going to have more on them if they were kept but perhaps were named as such cause while not a full island they might have important things planned on them. Trainer tower could have been its own island.
Also fun fact if you do a randomiser of these games and randomise tms you can see the unused bug tm icon
@@Venemofthe888 well those were routes in the end and I imagine they had some plans in the end but probably not important enough or just were able to compress to what they had
@@TheObsessiveGamerHello! May I ask you what you think about the cut routes on the Sevii Islands? Do you think they were cut because the developers didn't have enough time to finish them? Or alternatively, do you think that they were cut simply because the developers decided to go in a different design direction, where these routes weren't necessary anymore? Thank you in advance!
@@colokolito1 Depends. I think the ones for Isle 7 were more for design as I think it was an expansion on the caves they had there but thought it was too much work or too unnecessary to pad it that hard
Isle 4 ones are trickier as they aren't ones you normally can even connect to the existing Isle 4. This could be either a case of revisioning the whole island that left those unused for maybe they wanted to do more there but it was cut for time.
@@TheObsessiveGamer Thank you very much for your reply! Personally, I like to think that both the cut routes on Four Island and Seven Island were simply cut due to design decisions, because it would make me sad if they were cut due to lack of time honestly. But also, I think it makes more sense. Because, for Seven Island, we know that those routes south of the Tanoby Ruins were cut early in development, so I doubt it had to do with time issues. And as for the routes around Four Island, like you said, there's no way to connect them to the existing Four Island, meaning that the entire Island was probably reworked. My personal theory is that the Daycare and the entrance to Icefall Cave were meant to be on these cut routes, but the developers decided to put them in the town of Four Island itself, making these routes around Four Island redundant. I have one more question for you: do you think they had planned to bring back the Pikachu Surfing minigame too? I know that there's data for a house interior on the same route where Pikachu's surfing minigame was in Pokemon Yellow, but I always just assumed this house was for a Move Tutor that later got scrapped or something. What do you think?
For those of you who saying that Green and Leaf aren't the same character: Yes they are. Masters basically confirmed it by giving Leaf basically the same personality as Green in Let's Go, giving one of Green's mons as her lodge pair (Clefable), and confirmed that she knows Chase and Elaine, and said trainers seem to treat her like she's Green in relation to the Kantrio. Her unit even references the LGPE games multiple times, like how her eevee has a move called "let's go" and how one of her topics in the lodge is Pewter Crunchies. Why TF would Leaf's unit make so many references to a game that she never made an appearance in? And this isn't getting into the fact that they have a fuckton of design similarities, and how Mix Leaf and Blastoise is guaranteed to be coming in the near future...
Edit: Well now Leaf has a Blastoise for her Mix Pair in Masters, proving my point even further...
And yes, PMEX Leaf does have a very similar personality to LGPE Green, if you read some of her dialogue you'll notice that she actually says and does a lot of things that give off LGPE Green vibes. Here are a bunch of examples that illustrate my point:
"By the way, Valerie, about you wanting to become a Pokémon… Were you serious?" "I love that!" "And I actually know a way... A way to become a Pokémon." "Yeah. I'm sure it's exactly the kind of thing you're looking for, Valerie." "Yes, if you follow what I say. All right..."
"Plus...we're both still hiding an ace up our sleeve, aren't we?"
"You see a lot of Trainers keep their Pokémon out of their Poké Balls on Pasio, right?" "I'm glad to be able to walk around with my Eevee, but it does worry me a bit… He's just too cute! Somebody might want to kidnap him!" "Or maybe a talent agent might want to make him a Pokémon model! Would that mean we couldn't be together anymore?! Oh no! Wh-where'd I put his Poké Ball?! I have to protect him!"
"I was so jealous when I heard Red caught Snorlax..."
"Clefairy! Aah, I love you sooo much... I just can't even-""I used to search all over Mt. Moon in Kanto, hoping to find a Clefairy..."
"If we want to get to know each other better, all we have to do is battle a bunch more, right? Come on, let's do it right now! Don't expect me to go easy on you just because we're friends, though!" "*giggle* Kidding, kidding... I've got to do some more training before the two of us battle again!"
"Red and I were totally fine coming here by ourselves, but I seem to recall someone just BEGGING us to let him in on this, no?"
"As far as I can tell, you didn't really pay that much attention to anyone but yourself back then." "And weren't you the one who got too cocky and said "I am the most powerful Trainer in the world!" when you were Champion?"
"Hehehe! That's Blue for you.”
"Whaaat? That's gotta be me and Moltres!"
"You gotta be kidding me!" "That's a shame." "Aww! I lost!"
"Pokémon are so cute, even their smell is comforting! You agree with me, right?" "It's our secret! Don't tell ANYONE...OK?"
"Oh, just admit that you like it already!"
My post on reddit titled "Personality and Dialogue similarities between LGPE Green and PMEX Leaf" goes into further depth as to how they actually have very similar personalities.
@@darkfrost-star6317 technically her name is Blue. The rival in Red and Blue was originally named Green in Japan, and in the Adventures manga her name is Blue. So yes, Green and Leaf aren't the same character. Green is the male rival, and Leaf is the female playable character of FRLG.
@@stellarsub-orbital9922 I know that, I'm just using their western names since I know that people from the west are primarily going to be the ones reading my comment. Don't need to get all pedantic here lol.
Admittedly I actually do prefer calling the girl Blue and the boy Green as well-
@@darkfrost-star6317 lol I was just being technical, from a Western viewpoint you're technically correct.
Are you talking about Blue?
12:11 you can catch shuckle AND shuckle there? Man you never see those 2 Pokémon together.
Obv haha just an oversight on his part of the script
Lol, I knew I wasn't hearing things. I'm assuming that he recorded it and this is the raw take that he forgot to splice. Probably was tired at the time of editing the video and wanted to get it out soon.
@3:59 I'm unaware at game design, but you said the sprite for the main character looking sideways was not used in the final game. But if they use head directions, you can see when he reaches for a monster before surf, just for a second, the character does tilt the head diagonally. Just an observation
I interpreted it as an unused animation for a lil "no" headshake reaction to NPCs 🙅♀️🤷♀️
The gen3 surf ”blob” is actually a blobyfied Kyogre. You can see the white spots in the front and it’s back fins, but not its ”arms”
I was always thinking of Wailmer, because it's quite roundish, but Kyogre makes more sense.
the one thing I always found so weird about Gen 1's two remakes, for both Gen 3's version, and the lets go series,
is why they never remade Team Rocket's battle theme for both of those games-
like that's legit the most missed opportunity in existence.
it deff makes Team Rocket somewhat more bland to fight against because they never had their Gen 2/4 battle theme remade for the gen 1 remakes🤔
Leaf and Green are two different characters. The character in Lets Go is not meant to be Leaf from FRBG
It's...debatable as many have prior. I made a pinned comment giving my thought on the matter.
Strongly disagree. Her design in Let's Go is literally just her design from FR/LG with the colors flipped to match the R/G art and her hat removed, similarly to how Red and Blue have their R/G designs. Her hair is identical and everything.
@@ender7278 Elaine is the female protag of let's go though
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. They are the same character. Pokémon fans are so regarded about this dumb stuff
@royrogers4468 they are not the same character though.
Why do I feel that the E-reader limited them a lot?
12:07 Mr President! A second Shuckle has struck the video! Were gonna need more berry juice!
Ok so the reason why leaf and green are not the same characters but more like just mirror versions of each other is because in Japanese Green is named Blue and who we know as Blue is named Green so they probably didn’t want it to be confusing with the Japanese audience
Best way to explain away Green and Leaf is to just say Green is grown up leaf. Probably changed their name when they became an adult, kinda like Blue/Gary.
Never stop making videos,i recently discovered the channel and i am officially addicted.
isometric is soooo not the way you wanna describe the FRLG overworld sprites, nothing in that game is truly isometric ! it just has a better top down perspective !
Yay, my favourite Pokémon games finally got covered here! I absolutely loved this video ObsessiveGamer. It was so interesting to know more about these games development cycles that I didn't know before.
Glad you enjoyed it here man! More planned!
I live for Blue’s purple cargo pants
Man, I wished they'd kept the original sprites for Red and Oak instead of the new ones which looks so meh in comparison. Great video, dude, it's always nice to find something new about a game I played so many times
I’d love to see a colosseum and/or XD gale of darkness beta video. There doesn’t seem to be a ton of info out there
For how wildly they strayed from the series, there HAD to be so many ideas/assets they threw on the table, would love nothing more ❤
When it comes to the houses - there is one more on 7 Island. They all lack events to enter and theres nothing in there, but they exist.
"The 3 legendary dogs" They are literally big cats but okay
It bothers me that people continue to call them "Legendary Dogs" when A, they're known as the Legendary Beasts, and B, as you mentioned, they're clearly based on cats.
I turned off the video because of that exact line.
@@FyreCh There was a good amount in this video that just made me go “that’s wrong” or “that’s just speculation,” but that one really made me go “yeah man, this isn’t it.”
They were designed with traits of both, they're called beasts for a reason
@@juter1122 Okay yeah but Raikou literally has tiger stripes and sabre tooth tiger fangs, it is definitely not a dog
The number of cut content in the FRLG is equivalent to post game content in newer games
There's not much cut content in FRLG, basically just a bunch of small routes that were considered unnecessary during development.
Maybe the cut islands is where you would have caught the event legendary pokémon originally, but they changed their mind because of running out of development time.
I knew that about the head turning and diagonal walking that’s where Gumbino must have created the joke from
Interesting enough, data from both RS and FRLG are found in Emerald, including music, items, pokemon and if I'm not wrong evem some trainer classes
I remember the Sevii Islands in Pokémon Fire Red version, where you can catch wild Pokémon from Johto.
I assume the head tilting was an idle animation. It's a super common animation for 2D spites to do. Pretty sure we didn't have idle animations until Gen 6.
obligatory engagement comment that says the legendary beasts are based on big cats 🤓
actually learned a couple new things, and i continue to wish theyd just let us beat up an old man (oak) for sport without cheats or romhacks
So disappointing how even in the remake they couldnt manage putting the prof oak fight in. AGAIN.
I wish Blue the male Rival would go back to being called Green and the girl stop being called green and go back to being Blue
You mean follow their Japanese names and not their American names right.
@@PokemonFan1986 yes because they are colour coded to match their actual names
idk if its been said here, dont care, just wanted to come in and clear up leaf info in vid. leaf and green are both two different characters and the same character. ones from the adventures manga, the others the protag player character from gen 1. theyre basically just two versions of the SAME character, but youll never see those two versions in the same room despite being distinctly different characters.
Thank you so much for correctly identifying Green and Leaf as the same character. It drives me up the wall when people insist they're different.
They're not the same character though
Bro green was a manga character that wasn’t in any game until let’s go. She was cut and in the series lore they are listed as separate characters officially by game freak. Same as Kris and Lyra. But exist in current canon separately. I’m not sure why this confusing to people because green actually has a defined character were as leaf is just female red. By that logic blaziken and latias should be the same character as well. No. The original green concept from gen 1’s development spawned two separate characters. That’s not uncommon in game development.
Because they're not...
While it's unconfirmed in the English translation, one of the manga confirm they're different characters by stating Green is several years younger than Red (compared to Leaf who is around the same age).
What's confusing / conflicting is that one of the manga has Green growing up to be Leaf but this gets contradicted by the story in Masters Ex.
Tldr; GameFreak have never confirmed one way or another if they're the same or separate characters and all the material makes it hard to determine which is the case.
To those of you who saying that they aren't: Yes they are. Masters basically confirmed it by giving Leaf basically the same personality as Green in Let's Go, giving one of Green's mons as her lodge pair (Clefable), and confirmed that she knows Chase and Elaine which should be impossible if her and Green aren't the same entity. Her unit even references the LGPE games multiple times, like how her eevee has a move called "let's go" and how one of her topics in the lodge is Pewter Crunchies. Why TF would Leaf's unit make so many references to a game that she never made an appearance in? And this isn't getting into the fact that they have a fuckton of design similarities...
@@wiiownsps3and360I don't think that comparison really works because Blaziken/Latias are supposed to be an entire species not one specific character...
EDIT: Also another reason why this comparison doesn't work is because the two situations didn't play out the same way. With Blaziken and Latias, it was more like they made a concept for a potential pokemon to be made, and they split that pokemon into two: making Blaziken and Latias as two brand new pokemon species.
With Green/Leaf however; it was more like they made a concept for a female protag/rival in gen 1, then they scraped it, then when they made FRLG they made a female protag (Leaf) based on the scraped OG gen 1 girl protag, then in let's go they gave Leaf a counterpart by fusing her design with the unused gen 1 heroine's, creating Green. So... Yeah...
THEY ARE CATS!!!
So Green is most likely based off of the character from the manga (and some early concept art) while Leaf is a new original design they made for FireRed/LeafGreen. Green predates Leaf's design so I think this is the true intention. Its kind of like how Kris and Lyra are 2 different characters. IDK why people think these 2 are the same character since they CLEARLY have 2 different designs and Green's design predates Leaf's but IDK.
Nah in the manga Green sports the "Leaf" outfit so they're most definitely the same person
@@thebandit6886 the manga isn't canon to the game's lore as it meant to be it's own thing. that's why Crystal and Lyra were the same person there when they weren't in Masters.
But Leaf is ALSO based on the girl from the early concept art, also LGPE Green and Leaf technically have more striking design similarities than Classic Red and Remake Red do. Master's also gave Leaf one of Green's mons (Clefable) as her lodge pair sooooo...
@darkfrost-star6317 but the thing is that both classic Red and FRLG Red are confirmed to be the same person from alternate timelines where their story are slightly different. However, there's no in- universe explanation that both Green and Leaf are the same despite their similarities. Plus, all of the spin-offs and main series's games implied the two to be different people with their names and personalities.
@@genkidom except Green and Leaf literally never co-exist with each other, not even in Masters. Instead it seems like Masters just keeps adding more and more of Green's traits onto Leaf, such as giving her a clefable for her lodge pair (in which fyi lodge pairs are only ever mons that characters canonically have in the mainline games), giving her more of Green's weirdness and sassiness, giving her the same mindset of blurring the lines between humans and pokemon (see how Leaf played along with Valerie's desire to become a pokemon and compare it to how Green joked about making the player one of her mons), and Leaf actually KNOWING who Chase and Elaine are.
And the most damning evidence of all, literally no one mentions Green as a completely separate entity from Leaf, not even Chase and Elaine, or even Blaine even tho he's the guy who randomly brought her up in LGPE. Instead they're going to be giving Leaf a Blastoise as her mix pair, literally Green's starter, as the Kantrio mix pairs are referencing their classic counterpart's starters.
This content is interesting and well worth a visit to UA-cam
I really love FRLG. My only issue with them is this: they turned the ending credits into a medley, as they did in ORAS. They kind of ruined themes that are so "iconic". My guess is that they needed a version that's way longer that the original, because there where many more people that worked for the games.
remade the gen 1 but still no day and night clock 🙄🙄🙄
No unfortunately 3 dogs, celbi and mew was going to be events at one point unfortunately like Eon Ticket but unfortunately was not released... the celbi was going be special eReader card for Physical event and dog dog event be for other 2 dogs and and ran out time for the mew event...
The sevii isles are some of the best locations in pokémon. They didn't need to add them but they went above and beyond and added 7 entirely new locations. And the music is so good. Wish there was more johto music to distinct it but it's great
Love these games, they brought me to Pokémon games as a whole
1:43 I think that was probably a sprite for blue since the hair is the same. And, you know, it’s blue.
Except 'Blue' isn't called 'Blue' is Japan.
@@GalCon99 oh yeah lol
I didn't know Professor Oak was planned to be a trainer battle in this game too. I think they've been playing around with that idea for a long time now.
We got teased with a Professor Oak battle in Pokemon Let's Go. For a moment it felt like he was going to be the Champion you faced against on the Pokemon league, but unfortunately not.
Imagine if fire red and leaf green got an remake to the new gen
I would of loved to have more of the sevii islands.
that‘s interesting! That beta design for red‘s character (as seen at around 0:35) reminds me a lot of how they did the trainer sprites a few years later in Diamond/Pearl/Platinum…
I love your content about Gen 3 Pokemon Games
My favourite game, currently replaying fire red after I found my old gameboy and copies of fire red and leaf green, finally traded between them to get starters and trade evolutions, it’s so sick
Things like bug type tms are not inherently interesting, theyre always programmed as redundancies so the game doesnt crash.
Same reason EVERY pokemon (even event legendaries) all have shiny sprites, even if theyre never meant to be found that way.
12:00 Bro saying Shuckle twice killed me 🤣🤣🤣
Worth noting it's never been confirmed whether Leaf and Green are the same character or not.
While it's unconfirmed in the games (English or Japanese), one of the manga imply they're different characters by stating Green is several years younger than Red (compared to Leaf who is around the same age).
What's confusing / conflicting is that one of the other manga has Green growing up to be Leaf but this gets contradicted by Leaf's story in Masters Ex.
Tldr; GameFreak have never confirmed one way or another if they're the same or separate characters and all the material makes it hard to determine which is the case.
10:23 cancelled
I’ll never understand how they look like dogs lol
@@PVNTHR bc the artists made them look like beasts. no defined feature for cats and dogs, amigous between them.
@@Absbor Actually funny enough the designer said in an interview that they were designed off a lion, tiger and leopard.
So basically they're big cats lol
hey im first :D and this is new content for me with these remakes :)
eyy first! Yeah not many have covered these, so good time to do so.
there's really a lot of things here that you just casually take for granted once you've messed with the hacking tools and romhacks way too much
some things not put here include the ability of the games to acknowledge that you have no space for key items, even though it's now impossible in these remakes to legitimately have no space for key items
if you still want to see this in action without messing with the scripts themselves, i think you can change all the key items into normal items and stuff your bag with junk you don't need
I much prefer the gen 1 & 2 art style, gen 3 onward ruined it. The rougher, watercolor type was amazing. It had a tough tone too, less friendly.
I agree. I preferred Sugimori's old water colour rougher style. Everything looked tougher and more animalistic, which was perfect imo.
@@TheObsessiveGamer Yeah, the monster element was more pronounced early on. Even cute little Pikachu was less cute originally. It applies to humans too, especially their expressions. There's no more cocky grins or anything, just vacant smiles lol
@@Vulpas Yeah trainers actually looked more kid like too.
Eh I actually like the gen 3 artstyle. To me personally it's a clash between modern and classic pokemon art
@@2bhonest559 I can see thinking that about gen 3 FR/LG, it seems like they tried to at least kinda retain the spirit of the previous gens.
Hello and thank you for the great video! May I ask you what do you think about the cut routes on the Sevii Islands? Do you think they were cut because the developers didn't have enough time to make them? Or alternatively, do you think that they were cut simply because the developers decided to go in a different design direction? Thank you in advance!
Love watching these keep them up
Main problem with these games is a problem that all gen 3 games share. The learnset of every Pokemon.
13:19 Pokemon: Rocket Edition joined the chat
So glad we (finally) have this. Great video as always!
God FR and LG are honestly still some of my favorite games to this day. That was how you do a remake. I really wish I liked HG and SS but they just didn’t have the same magic to them
Agreed. A lot of choices ofndevelopment were really jsrring and confusing. They should have just based it on crystal.
@@hisaceinthehole3426 What did you find jarring/confusing?
This is really weird to me because HGSS was perfect. FRLG were good but had weird things.
Good video! One small gripe though...
Leaf and Green are not the same person. And the reason that they don't call her Green in the files, is that in japan, the rival we know as "Blue" is called "Green". And the character we know as Green in Let's Go! is a different character.
Thanks and Leaf and Green...is an interesting debate on its own. I would personally say neither side truly has enough evidence to say otherwise, but it seems that unlike Lyra and Kris who did appear in the same game (Pokemon Masters), Leaf and Green don't ever appear at the same time, so thus it can be speculated that they are the same actually but depending on developers or marketers, they are presented differently.
Also i'm aware about Green being Blue and Blue being Green in Japanese.
El sprite de red de la primera beta, se veia que querian replicar el estilo de Pokémon, ruby, safiro y esmeralds
I would have loved to fight professor oak as a superboss even if you had to do something specific.
Your rival uses the opposite version color for name recommendations. It's implying throughout FR LG that Leaf is the female protagonist, Red is the male ofc, and then Green is the male rival. Yea yea, I get it, you want it to be Blue. Every other game says Blue. But we all forget that every single generational remake is an alternate universe. After all, Green is literally manga Gary, and Blue is manga Leaf. You can see the male Green/Blue is Japanese/English, and the female Blue/Green is vice versa. Blue, for whatever strange reason, was entirely stripped as a colored naming concept throughout the span of generation 3's Kanto. If you think it says BLUE for the Rival's name suggestion, you are a victim of either the Mandela Effect or a questionable long-term memory.
Leaf and Green do appear at the same time, because they're different people entirely. Green is merely the English name commonly given to the female protagonist, but not here.
Im more intrested in the lvl 100 Venasaur n squirtle
You said “Shuckle” twice
Id love to see a heartgold soulsilver video!
1:50
Why can people tell the difference between model and sprite??
green is different from leaf, green in the original red, blue and green artwork wore a black dress just like in lets go.
11:36 I know they changed a lot of the back sprites for Kanto Pokemon for this games when transitioning them from ruby and sapphire, so the “Beta” squirtle’s back sprite looks exactly like it’s back sprite in ruby and sapphire. Maybe at one point they were going to keep squirtle’s back sprite the same at one point.
Any source on that beta rival sprite?
@@christianmoreno3295 check The Cutting Room Floor
13:34 pictured: water tms not being blue
Beta squirtle 🔥🔥
neat
12:56 does anyone know his planned full team? I'm curious and if someone found something it would help a lot. All we see is his arcanine
green and leat are different characters from the manga. That is why they are still treated seperated in the games to this day.
Hope you'll have a good day
the beta Red sprite resembles RSE's Red sprite
They are cats. Entei is a lion, suicune is a leopard, daikon is a sabertooth tiger…
I want Japanese differences 😢
Not too much really exists there outside of different events really. The games are pretty identical unlike Crystal.
@@TheObsessiveGamer Trainer Tower is quite different between versions but that can be a short
Background music is too loud imo.
Japanese people call green Aoi = Blue, which is why it's so confusing for us and we keep calling Aoi different fictional games, also why why have a Pokemon Blue instead of green 😂 the stubbornness and lack of wanting to understand a different culture that still lives up to 2024
I do know this fact and I wish they had kept to what it was meant to be back then. At this point though since everyone is use to it, we just stick to what is the western canon of the games here.
@@TheObsessiveGamer appreciate the forwardness of it, I just never got the point of censoring food, speech, actual plot etc to manipulate what people should want to see, rather than letting them decide whether it is good or not for themselves 😅
7:32 iam hacked door on old lady house. Get battle down lvl
Kacho spotted
Why does the bata surfing look better than the final one
Ah yes my Favorite Dogs, a Lion, a Tiger, and a Panther... Homie those are Legendary Cats. Not dogs!
Beasts
@@sanderdragneel228 I'm fine with this compromise honestly.
12:05 said Shuckle twice lmfao
@@bumper3241 whoops typo. Should stop with these late night edits lol
@@TheObsessiveGamer Shuckle AND Shuckle?? Game Freak would've fed us good with that event :P
What about it? Shuckle is the best.
Stop cursing its a sin dude
Leaf and Green are NOT the same characters. It separates the timelines very well
Green and leaf are different characters
How to activate the code to move diagonally 👀
I think even if they consider them the same character they were designed to be different. The design of Green and Leaf are very opposite, one seems like a mature rival while the other is designed like a girl next door friend.
Wait they must be different because in Japan Green and Blue are swapped so having green be a female character wouldn't make sense to them, idk unless she is named Blue in the Japanese code? Or uh, Water?
leaf and green is two different charachters
Red with blue hair? So he would look more like Boyfriend from Friday Night Funkin?
As far as names go, I just simplify things. I call both of the protagonists Fire Red and Leaf Green. Fire and Leaf being titles that come before their names.
the three legendary dogs? they planned to add Zacian, Zamazenta and a 3rd one in the Kanto games? How interesting! But why drop the argument and then talk about the Legendary Beasts out of nowhere?
Leaf is best