Fun fact. In the scene where we meet adult Ben, we see a hefty gentleman to fake us out before we meet super hot Ben. This man played kid Ben in the original miniseries.
Yes!! Not only that he actually read the script and wished he’d gotten to be in more of it but said he gets it since he’s a background character and his days as a Handscome are over, he was really sweet about the whole cameo
To explain Pennywise and the Dead Lights. Imagine a fish in a pond. A human reaches into the pond. The fish sees the hand in the pond, but doesn't see the human. The fish doesn't understand what a hand is, and can only relate it to similar looking things; maybe worms. The fish represents the kids. The hand is Pennywise. And the human is the Dead Lights. Even if the fish bites the hand, it doesn't kill the human. This is also why in later Stephen King novels, there are hints that Pennywise has returned in some fashion. Because humans have more than one hand. If the Dead Lights loses Pennywise, it can always reach back in later with another hand.
@@abagegael It's from a Magic: The Gathering story. There's things in that canon called Eldrazi, which basically work the same way, except a lot less subtle than Pennywise (they are basically skyscraper sized eldritch abominations that reformat the matter of the world they appear in into a blank state that a new world can be created from).
This is pretty much how I imagine all of the Eldritch creatures from the Cthulhu mythos to be. They don't really look the way we represent them, that's just the portion of their essence that we can see in our dimension.
I heard Mr. Gray from Dreamcatcher might be a variation (and is mentioned in another King work). Or even the guy from the Dark Tower series? I need to look it up again.
Better yet have him be in Richie’s audience and call him out for stealing a joke, to make it better, make the joke “EXCUSE ME SIR! Do you have Prince Albert in a can? YOU DO?! WELL YOU BETTER LET THE POOR GUY OUT!”
Everyone was great in this but Jay Ryan's performance as adult Ben stood out to me because he carried himself like someone who's painfully aware that they "used to be ugly" despite currently being super conventionally attractive. It's such a specific vibe and he nailed it so well
Being formerly fat myself I expected to hate his performance, but damn... Jay Ryan simply nailed it as adult Ben. That lack of confidence that comes with the fat kid inside the mind is too hard to embody without looking arrogant.
One of the reasons why the murder of Adrian Mellon hits so hard is because it was based on the murder of Charlie Howard a young gay man who was attacked and killed in a very similar way back in 1984 and the worst thing is that even if the killers were captured they did not face any serious jailtime for what they did
yeah the three boys who did it had admitted to harming gay people prior to charlie howard. crazy how many people at the time genuinely believed he was partially responsible because he was “open” about it. and how many people excused the boys cause it’s “just teenage boys doing teenage boy things”
I didn't know about the 1984 murder but I remember when I was in college (maybe 6 or 7 years ago) hearing on the news that a gay high school boy was killed by his class mates.
I was shell shocked and I’m none of those things 😭💀 accept for gay, but I’m a woman. I wasn’t expecting a kind of violent horror right off the bat of a realistic hate crime when the movie I thought I was about supernatural/ ancient lovecraftian horror, I was LIKE AYO DONT DO THAT WHAT AYO-
@@heelixes Well, in the book, the crime is much more horrific than the movie in my opinion and there's actually conclusion to that scene. In the book, the perpetrators age was 15, 17 and 18 years old and one of them saw Pennywise killed Adrian. After that, all three of them were arrested and their defense were they just wanted to beats Adrian, not to kill him. It was the clown that kills him, not them. Of course the cops didn't believe it, but Don also had the same story. Finally, the cops and the DA decided to omitted that part of the story in court and the 18 and 17 years old got first degree manslaughter and send to prison. The 15 years old got trial as juvenile and got second degree manslaughter.
Bill Hader said in an interview that when he heard Finn Wolfhard had said he'd like to see Hader play the adult vessjon of his character, he thought that was kind of cool, but when he got the call for the actual audition, his first thought was "This Wolfhard kid has some POWER!"
The old lady scene was genuinely creepy, but as soon as the CGI monster appeared, my whole cinema burst out laughing. There's nothing like a "Bad Laugh", when you crack up at something that you know isn't supposed to be funny, but scary.
I get that reaction when Richie gets hit by the Deadlights in the film. The physicality of the moment is stupidly funny to me, and overrides the horror of the moment.
The version of this scene in the TV miniseries is much closer to how it happens in the book. I hated the CG witch, so dumb in context. Looked like something out of Pan's Labyrinth.
A big thing that was left out that I miss, but understand why it's not there with run time for the movie, was the stories Mike was compiling about all the known signings and times of IT. He was able to pin point almost every recording of IT through the history of Derry, from the people who were there. It was super unsettling when Mike would ask about the Clown, and the people would slowly and reluctantly tell him about seeing IT and how it always seemed to float, even against the wind
There were some references to the interludes. I have seen the films in a while but I think The Black Spot is brought up in conversation. And then one of the scares in the first film is burnt hands and children screams a reference to the explosion at the iron works.
They could have had a great scene for Beverly with the old woman by playing on her insecurities, having the woman talk about solitude and being alone, and maybe hinting that this will happen to her too if she doesn't settle for her husband or other shitty men because she's not good enough to deserve better etc. Maybe have the woman slowly morph to look like an older Beverly (or like her mother). They could have a nice bit of psychological horror instead of jump scare nr. 14
I suspect part of the reason why Adrian Mellon’s death felt so real was because, well King based it on a real case. Namely the murder of Charlie Howard in 1984.
King's self deprecation in the movie as he disses Bill about His endings is one of My favorite parts. "Nah, i didnt like the ending" love it when an author has a sense of humor😂😂😂😂
I have always enjoyed reading the fore/afterwords of King's books. His conversational style and sense of humor is quite wonderful, and you really get a sense of humility from how willing he is to poke fun at himself.
@@darthvedder7664 honestly I've always seen him as got and miss with endings. Done of his endings I find as bad I still like. It for example I find the ending goofy and dumb and cheesey but I kind of love it because of that
Him making fun of himself did make me laugh in the theatre. The man is more than aware of what people have said about his endings for the last 50 years 😅
I think that was accurately conveyed in the movie. He was the only one who had his face sucked on. I can only imagine the ptsd he went through from the phone call alone.
My favourite line from the book happens after young Eddie has his arm broken by Butch Bowers and Eddie's mother blames the Loser's Club and tells Eddie they are bad friends. After she leaves, Eddie thinks about his friends: “Maybe there aren't any such things as good friends or bad friends-maybe there are just friends, people who stand by you when you're hurt and who help you feel not so lonely. Maybe they're always worth being scared for, and hoping for, and living for. Maybe worth dying for too, if that's what has to be. No good friends. No bad friends. Only people you want, need to be with; people who build their houses in your heart.” ― Stephen King (It) A pretty good definition of friendship, as far as I'm concerned.
I think it's also because that kid actor was naturally the funniest, so they decided to let him shine in this movie. Apparently, that kid (Jack Dylan Grazer) came up with many of Richie's best jokes in the first movie and improvised a lot of Eddie's funniest lines.
About Beverly's friend not being able to bring herself to report the crime. It isn't a criticism of feminism, it's a criticism of the society we live in that Kay was so afraid of reporting the assault because she, as a feminist, knows that very little would be done by the law to protect a woman.
An odd change in chapter 1 was making it so Ben was interested in researching Derry's history instead of Mike, yet Mike is still the one to stay behind and act as the town librarian.
Yeah I thought it was stupid to give Ben half of Mike's character traits knowing Mike had to stay and be the one interested in history for the story to work at all.
@@Laneous14 It's staggering to me how people don't notice how backwards this movie is. One of the most randomly casually racist mainstream productions I've seen in decades.
@@Mad_Oph Well maybe you could have it be Seth Green or still be Tim Curry but have a stunt double in place of Tim Curry and have Tim Curry voice over him.
Given that there's a whole section in the book describing Bill's feud with a literature professor who insisted *every* story has to have some sort of deeper meaning where Bill stuck to the idea that sometimes a story is just a story, I'm gonna say that what happened to Bev's friend had literally no significance beyond "plot point."
I always thought if it had a message, then given how cynical King can be, it probably was not an attack on feminism so much as a grim nod to the reality that sometimes evil can overcome good.🎉
It also did feel like a logical thing that would happen with the characters as written. Like it wouldn't have been necessary for this movie, but in the book I totally buy that Tom would go do that after Beverly escapes him. So it's not like it felt like it came out of nowhere. I do like that the majority of King's writing feels like something that would naturally happen with the characters as he established them.
Pennywise being beaten via insults does work given that he feeds off of fear so people not being afraid of him at all and throwing the torment back at him could be seen as his kryptonite. But it was still pretty ridiculous to see on screen especially given what the adult Losers Club went through for the entire movie.
Yeah it feels like the ending where the loser club defeating penny wise as kids comapre to them as adults feel like it show be switch around. Like it would be fitting for the kids going "your just a clown" while the adults go "I'm so sick your shit" and beat the shit out of penny wise.
You mention Stan’s wife (Patricia Blum) as left out, and I wanted to add a piece of writing I really liked about her even if it never could’ve made it to screen. In the early chapters of the book, Patricia says that Stan found Bill’s books and was delighted to find a friend from his childhood was now a published author. But Patricia doesn’t like Bill’s book at all, she considers stories of werewolves and other creatures tearing kids apart to be distasteful. Afterwards, she goes on to describe the intense anger she sometimes feels as a result of growing up so heavily discriminated against. She describes being in a grocery store like normal when she hears a laugh like the one she heard when she was turned away from prom for being Jewish. From the book, “Then the hate and shame would come flooding back like a migraine headache and she would despair not only for herself but for the whole human race. Werewolves. The book by Denbrough-the one she had tried to read and then put aside-was about werewolves. Werewolves, shit. What did a man like that know about werewolves?” In a book at least partly about the trauma of growing up marginalized and how that trauma and hate and despair follows you, something about that passage has always stood out to me. You can even read it as King criticizing (or at least acknowledging criticism of) his habit of writing about bigotry from the perspectives of people belonging to groups he’s not a part of. After all, what does a man like that know about werewolves? I struggle with my relationship to King’s work a lot as a queer woman, as I find his works can both reinforce a lot of harmful stereotypes while also beautifully portraying those experiences. Like this video says, he writes about fear. And fear is tied so closely into persecution and bigotry. It’s hard for me to fully describe the rage I carry with me every day knowing that the bigotry that directly killed and hurt people I knew was performed by people who are right next to me in the grocery store, but King manages to get that across in a brief minor character who’s barely worth naming in a plot synopsis. That’s why I keep coming back to his work even despite the myriad of flaws.
Maybe if people let go of identity politics and just wrote characters as authors and read characters as readers without needing "representation" they could enjoy fiction the way the human race has since the dawn of time. Just a thought. That said I don't really like King's work because it tends to be too formulaic for me so I don't know about knowing about werewolves :P
@@bleedingberryjuiceThe idea that humans have enjoyed fiction “since the dawn of time” is kind of ridiculous considering mass produced novels are an incredibly recent invention, and novels have always been highly political. Authors like Radcliffe Hall have had their work burned for writing queer characters, Hitler imprisoned authors for writing things he didn’t like (he wanted to imprison the author of All Quiet on the Western Front, for example), and the types of books that the average person has been able to get into their hands have ALWAYS been a highly political process. Sure, “audiences ‘needing’ representation” (need is in quotes because i’ve read hundreds of books with nothing but straight white men in it) now might seem annoying, but it’s better than the days when it was literally impossible for people outside of the majority to get their books read on a wide scale. Beyond that, I don’t understand how you can ignore identity politics when King’s work is often directly about identity politics. You want me to ignore how he writes about minorities… in a book that’s largely about how society treats minorities. So you want me to just ignore the words he writes? This novel spends literal chapters exploring how being a minority affects your life, how can you “ignore identity politics” in a work that is ABOUT identity politics? You’re asking me to just straight up not engage with the ideas King is writing about. finally, you saying “If you could ignore identity politics you could enjoy his work” is kind of a dumb reply to my comment where I openly praise his work? Especially considering what I LOVE about It (which is one of my favorite books, I’ve read the entire thing three times and reread specific chapters dozens of times) is how it handle identity politics. Ignoring identity politics would take away something I like about this work, not make me like it more. I love King’s books, I own several and plan to read more. But at the same time, I can also criticize it. Fun fact, hundreds of thousands of people every day enjoy media that they acknowledge has flaws. I dont understand this idea so many people have that acknowledging any flaw in a work ruins your ability to enjoy it. I like work that challenges me, I like work that makes me sit down and think, I like work with complex themes and characters. And when you seek out work like that, you’re inevitably going to find things you disagree with. If you only ever read and enjoy books you 100% agree with politically, you’re never going to grow as a person or learn how to do deeper media analysis and criticism.
@@neonradiustechnically, fiction has been around since the dawn of time. Cavemen probably told "fish stories" around the fire about the time they killed "the biggest animal you've ever seen." Plus, there's also The Illiad, The Odyssey, and the old, uncensored fairy tales that existed before writing stories was a thing
A truly Noble attempt to explain the macroverse and the deadlights. Oh goodness I was laughing so hard by the end of it when you mentioned the Crimson King. Bravo!
The whole time I was thinking, “Well, when you say it out loud…..”. But yeah, for me it “made a lot more sense” when I was reading it, especially the first time when I was a kid. If you just went with it and used your imagination it was cool, which also fits in really well with a main theme at that point in the story. MAN, King is a good writer!
The whole idea of the hate crime was that the town is evil to a paranormal extent, caused by pennywise. And that hate crime is the horrific event that started the cycle. They didn’t really go into the whole cycle thing as much as in the book but they’re started by a horrific event, and ended by one as well. There’s other events talked about in the book too, not just that one. When they defeat pennywise in the book, like half the town physically falls apart too, in a way showing how much of Derry was pennywise.
I have to say I really like the decision they made regarding the Losers not forgetting everything again at the end. I always read them losing their memories magically as a metaphor for the very real repression and loss of memories that can be caused by trauma. So I like that they still remember at the end of this movie, implying that they have overcome/worked through that trauma. Forgetting again also just always felt a bit underwhelming to me. Generally, especially when I re-read the book as an adult, the theme that stuck out most to me was all the ways in which suppressed childhood trauma can follow people into their adult lives. (While, when first I read it as a teen, the childhood belief side of things was what I found most memorable.) Anyway, great breakdown!
Yeah, forgetting always felt like they hadn't mentally dealt with anything (physically they had by defeating IT, but mentally and emotionally they were still blocking things out by forgetting). Plus it makes sense given when they first leave Derry they forget, as that's is IT ensuring they don't think to come back...remembering is the ultimate sign IT is gone?
100% agree. I was so disappointed when they it was revealed that they were once again losing their memories after defeating It the second time. Having them retain their memories was a far better ending because it demonstrated that they had finally faced their childhood trauma and no longer needed to suppress their past. Having them forget in the book just felt so messed up, especially after Eddie's sacrifice.
This. Plus there was a whole Thing in 1970s/1980s speculative fiction where of course people forget about the magical stuff or it goes away or whatever at the end, because, IDK "realism" or something, and I loathe it.
If I could play Devil's Advocate for the suicide note, it could be seen as Stanley feeling an intense lack of self-worth. Something I personally can identify with.
That’s a thought I also had… as someone who hasn’t seen EITHER movie, tho, I should admit that FRAMING could be the make-or-break part. It seems like everyone agrees that the framing is not supposed to be “oh, this is a real thing that people struggle with, and an extra layer of tragedy to Stanley’s death”, everyone seems to find it as “no, it’s okay - it was a noble sacrifice, so it isn’t that bad, actually…” And THAT… that’s not okay
@@phastinemoonI think that’s a person problem. I didn’t come out of that finding that to be a sacrifice, I came out of that crying my eyes out because one of my favorite characters thought they were better off without him around.
OK from someone who nearly walked out of the movie when the letters arrived... To make the suicide a "noble sacrifice" is complete BS. It's this simple: Stan remembered everything, the moment he got the call. He couldn't handle a) the sudden information dump or b) the fact that his reality was warped so badly as a child that he completely forgot it. His brain broke.
10:37 - Okay, so I think I know why they didn't include Adult Richie switching to contacts. Keep in mind that this is just a theory, though. In real life, Bill Hader has an autoimmune condition that affects his vision, particularly in his left eye. It’s not noticeable unless you’re looking for it, but if you look at his left eye, you can see that it’s a bit more squinty and droopy than the right eye. Because of this condition (he's never said what he specifically has, BTW), Bill does need to wear glasses, sometimes. It’s hard to know just how much he relies on them, but in the most recent interviews and talk show appearances I’ve seen him in, it seems to me that he wears glasses pretty much on the regular, now - maybe because he's gotten older or maybe because his condition has gotten worse or both. Around the time he was filming “IT Chapter 2,” though, his glasses use seemed more sporadic. I don't think his vision was quite as bad back then and he didn't need to wear them all the time. Also, I don't know if Bill has the ability to wear contacts or not, but I do know that his condition affects the MUSCLES around his eye so maybe wearing contacts would be painful or just not possible for him to wear. Therefore, I think they let Adult Richie keep his glasses because of Bill Hader's real-life vision issues. Wearing contacts might not have been something his condition could actually let him do. Furthermore, considering that this is a movie with stunts and with a very intensive shooting schedule (Andy Muschietti is, apparently, a perfectionist that made all the actors do dozens of takes just for a single scene), it probably wouldn't surprise me if it turns out the glasses he wore for the movie were real and not just prop glasses. Whatever his condition might be, it seems like it's sensitive to light and affected by stress, so it makes sense that he WOULD want to wear a real pair of glasses - for sake of his health and so that he can keep on acting in a long-ass movie without exacerbating anything.
I assumed it was just to help the audience remember who he was since he doesn't look that much the the actor playing his child self. And it makes the group feel more diverse. Plus they were already jam packed with info, they didn't need a whole subplot about glasses being nerdy.
@levischorpioen Heh, well...Bill Hader is actually my celebrity crush. A few years ago, I fell down the UA-cam rabbit hole and ended up watching a whole bunch his interviews and talk show appearances and Saturday Night Live sketches. I've been admiring him ever since. I don't mean to be parasocial, I know what the pitfalls are, I just think he's a super nice and really talented dude! Did you know that when he was on SNL he used have really bad panic attacks? And, yet, he still went out there and performed every single week! I just think it's really brave of him keep going back out on that stage even if the fear was overwhelming like that. I try to keep a cool head and I try not to go overboard but maybe I was a little too enthusiastic when I wrote my original post. Oops. This just happens to be something I'm super knowledgeable in and I wanted to share. Thank you letting me know, though. I would rather be told that I'm going too far than to not be told at all, right?
@levischorpioen Heh, well...Bill Hader is actually my celebrity crush. A few years ago, I fell down the UA-cam rabbit hole and ended up watching a whole bunch his interviews and talk show appearances and Saturday Night Live sketches. I've been admiring him ever since. I don't mean to be parasocial, I know what the pitfalls are, I just think he's a super nice and really talented dude! Did you know that when he was on SNL he used have really bad panic attacks? And, yet, he still went out there and performed every single week! I just think it's really brave of him keep going back out on that stage even if the fear was overwhelming like that. I try to keep a cool head and I try not to go overboard but maybe I was a little too enthusiastic when I wrote my original post. Oops. This just happens to be something I'm super knowledgeable in and I wanted to share. Thank you letting me know, though. I would rather be told that I'm going too far than to not be told at all, right?
Bill Hader was the best choice as Adult Richie, you really believed him becoming a comedian to hide his deep seated issues. I wish that they'd explored Eddie and Ritchie's relationship more.
He is SUCH a good actor! Absolutely knocked it out of the park! BTW, if anyone wants to explore Bill Hader's more dramatic side of acting, I highly recommend both the show he made for HBO, "Barry," and a movie called "The Skeleton Twins." They're fabulous!
@the_exodusrex3385 "Seated" is the correct term when you say something is "deep seated."Seeded" is the incorrect term. A quick Google search will clear up the definitions for you.
It's Richie and Mike who see the vision in the smokehole in the book. It's the smoke burning his eyes that adult Ritchie feels in his contacts forcing him to return to glasses
I got so excited hearing your enthusiastic acclaim of 'succulent Chinese meal', was not expecting that reference. And then I immediately saw a comment, 'you know your judo well'. I love y'all 😂
So basically what I'm hearing here is, my decision to watch the 2nd movie first out of sheer boredom on an intercontinental flight was the CORRECT thing to do. Cause I too was freaking out with the adults, having no idea HOW A BUNCH OF KIDS BEAT THAT UNHOLY ABOMINATION!! 😅😂
Yeah, the book is about the adults going back for some random reason, and they regain parts of their memories as the story happens, and it all comes together by the end. The orginal TV film captures the structure of the book better and it also frames the narrative incredibly well vs the remark.
Derry self destructing in a localized hurricane is *wonderfully* foreshadowed in the book, one of the characters asks another (I think child-timeline Beverly) if she killed a spider she saw and when Bev says no the other character says "good, killing spiders will make it rain" which...I see what you did there, Stephen. Oh you picked *that* page for the "sometimes mid-sentence" bit, did you? Cheeky. The change with Ritchie being gay and secretly in love with Eddie was one I actually liked. Maybe because I'm not straight myself, but I appreciated the representation (especially in a character that, you know, survives). It/Pennywise actually being part of an eldritch horror from beyond the boundaries of the universe is actually one of my favorite elements from the book, because I love eldritch horror. I still wish they'd made It's final physical form more spider-y, King's original inspiration for it was Shelob after all. Stretchy tooth-hole Pennywise face is still a neat visual though. Tom and Audra's reduced role in the film isn't anything super-disappointing, but I did miss Henry being picked up on the road by Belch's corpse driving Christine. Maybe that'd have been too on-the-nose in a film. I'd actually completely forgotten about the letter Stan wrote, and yeah, that change feels like such a cop-out on the filmmaker's part. I suppose nothing's perfect.
Re: The fate of Derry. I always found the city being destroy AND it surviving being... underwhelming. Mostly because the people of Derry caused so many horrible things to happen and just... forgot. And they never know what they did. I read somewhere a suggestion for an alternate ending where the Losers make it out of the sewers only to find Derry silent. And as they begin to walk towards main street they discover the bodies, with hastily written suicide notes; everyone, upon Pennywise dying, remembered everything they had done. How they had turned a blind eye time and time and time again to children dying. And unable to live with the guilt they killed themselves. The final line was that then the Losers Club began to hear the sobbing of the children and the dark realization they are now in a ghost town with a ton of orphans.
@@mollywantshugs5944 And deeply naive and unrealistic... Look what happens after atrocities in real life. People find a scapegoat and keep on doing what they were doing.
@@aimeem not sure why you directed that at me specifically, but people taking their lives from guilt is a thing that occasionally happens. It’s not exactly realistic that such a thing would happen to an entire town, but it’s definitely a striking image that fits with the book’s themes very well if nothing else
Margaret Atwood - I don't write Science Fiction, I write speculative fiction Stephen King - I don't write horror, I write suspense It's easy to forget that fantasy, scifi and horror used to be considered trash. Like what are you doing, dreaming? Nerd.
my favourite part of IT was the brief but very active period on tumblr where the fandom created a canon compliant band AU complete with collaborative actual recorded songs (one person would write some lyrics, another person would record themselves singing them, and a third person or more would record music to go with it), cover art, memes and references. you really had to be there, it was surreal but a lot of fun.
LotR is basically the only example of filming a first movie with a sequel(s). Filming movies 2 and 3 together isn’t uncommon, but movies 1-2+ doesn’t really happen. The closest example I can think of it Kill Bill, but that was just one movie that got too long so the split it. Actually, I think the new Kevin Costner movie Horizon: An American Saga (which he paid for himself) filmed at least one sequel (planned 4 total?) at the same time, but the first movie flopped hard which makes it difficult to release the sequel that was already film, and certain means the other sequels aren’t going to happen. Kevin Costner paid for it himself, but when studios have to use their own money, they’re not going to want to take the risk of filming two movies at the same time not knowing how well the first movie will do.
@@puxtbuck6731 I just did a quick check and am seeing different numbers, but it looks like the entire trilogy was made for $5-10M total. Yeah when you have super low budgets like those, there’s not much opposition to filming multiple movies. The production cost for IT Chapter 1 was $35-40M, which is still relatively low. The cost for Chapter 2 was $80M, which would’ve cost less if filmed simultaneously, so maybe about $100M for both? $100M to shot both movies simultaneously doesn’t seem like an unreasonable risk, but it’s New Line’s money so maybe the just wanted to do $40M for the first one and not risk another $60M?
Like the recent Dune films there was no guarantee they would be a sequel-if the first was a flop, the sequel wouldn't get made and they had to watch the budget so no filming for the sequel attend of time.
The idea of having a celebrity cameo as the theatre actor passenger being chauffeured by Eddie makes me sad because if it weren't for his health issues that would 100% be the perfect role for Tim Curry.
I prefer Bill Skarsgård performance in part two than part one. In the first movie, he’s just in creepy clown mode all the time, and this one you get to see him like trying trick kids by playing on their sympathy, he gets to goof around a little more, it feels more accurate and three-dimensional a villain
Except he's portraying a giant evil alien space clown. IT might technically be four dimensional, but it's a very one dimensional character. Giving more characterization to a giant space alien clown spider monster isn't necessary.
Kind of wish Mike Flannigan had been tapped for this. If people have seen one of his earlier films Oculus you’d see he’s quite good at telling two timelines simultaneously and telling a story that in concept may seem silly but in execution is quite scary.
As decent as this stuff was, there's a reason I'm convinced Mike Flanagan is the only one allowed to adapt Stephen King novels. Doctor Sleep was legitimately masterful in how it managed to stay close to both the book AND Kubrick's film.
@@kingofthegundam7974Carpenter openly said he just made “Christine” for the paycheck because of how much critics despised “The Thing”. He said he didn’t even read the book and doesn’t really like the film he made
I think the reason they turned the dead lights blue in the second film was to suggest they might be will o'wisps. Or perhaps ball lightning. The infamous swamp gas people are always told they see when they see bright lights in the wilderness.
It’s macroverse, not microverse. And Pennywise/IT is more like an avatar of the deadlights. in the book, IT does have a consciousness, as IT does HATE Maturin and often spits insults at it, suggesting that IT maybe more of like a Metatron for the Deadlights, acting as its voice and extension.
For arguably the best adaptation of It, I might make the case for Mike Flanagan's The Haunting of Hill House. Yes, it really is a different story, based on an entirely different property, but Flanagan is deeply indebted, and has adapted King's work in the past. Hill House brilliantly utilizes the non linear story telling of It, hopping between adult and child versions of the same group of characters, who are being haunted by horrific and mysterious events of their childhood.
Brought to you by the same guy who made a crazy, pink, monorail train who could only be "defeated" by telling it riddles as it sped across the wastelands where the end-track had crumbled centuries ago.
@alicepbg2042 in the 3rd dark tower book the protagonists escape from a city by climbing on a sentient pink monorail named "Blaine". The A.I that powered Blaine had gone crazy and refused to let the group off the monorail, It continued to accelerate which would eventually cause it to crash. If I remember correctly Blaine would let them off if they could beat him in a game of riddles, Most of the group fail except for the last guy (I think his name was eddie) Throughout the book he had constantly made low brow and confusing jokes, Instead of riddles he told his jokes which confused Blaine, He then shot the computer that housed Blaine which destroyed him and caused the monorail to stop
They explain why a lot of how belief and will works on IT in the book. When IT has his perspective chapter he reflects for the first time in his existence about his life. How he came to Earth because he knew humans would come. The losers had caused him pain for the first time and he realized that there were drawbacks to his power. The rules of the universe were the same for him. You had to obey the rules of the form you occupied. Which meant that if the wills were strong enough and his fear didn't cow them, they could hurt him with traditional weapons that can kill monsters. Rituals, silver, charmed weapons, etc...... In the book Richie uses at least one joke weapon, sneezing or itching powder and It is temporarily disabled as he sneezes massive snot globs.
I gotta say, they nailed the adult as people who convincingly look like older versions of the kids. Of particular note is Ben's actor, who despite not being overweight still manages to have the same smile as kid Ben, instantly evoking his look.
I was just watching an anime call Oshi No Ko, which has a whole subplot about the trade-off between capturing the author’s real often deeper intent, and ensuring the adaption fits the new medium. It really felt like an unintentional allusion to a King adaption.
For Shame! My favorite moment in IT Chapter 2 is that sudden and jaring cut to "Just call Me Angel." My friend and I couldn't stop laughing when it happened. Awesome content as always Dear Narrator!
I didn't even know they used suble deaging on the younger cast to make them match book 1, which I guess is the biggest compliment you could give to the VFX artists.😅 The second makes me wonder tho how the first film could have turned out of they had decided to do the timeline split afterall.
They were right not to do the 'split' device in 1 as there was no guarantee it would be a hit and needed to keep the budget down so casting name adult actors wasn't going to happen. By 2 it was a hit so they could spend the money on the adult actors and VFX's to bring the kid's back.
I remember reading somewhere that some of the scenes were filmed during the first part, but couldn't fit in anywhere in the final cut. If they had to de-age the kids it would probably be in some minor supplementary scenes.
It pisses me off that they left out the part of the book where Pennywise kills one of the homophobic attackers in Shawshank (redemption) prison to keep him from talking. It was so satisfying to see the gay guy get some justice
@@supercjm3306 Shawshank prison is mentioned in all his books even before he wrote redemption. That's why he wrote redemption because it's so important to his universe but we hardly get to read about what it's like in there
12:41 I also wonder if it’s because they didn’t want it to seem like they were killing off their only Black character, or if they wanted to get their money’s worth out of the actor.
I mean, Mike didn't get killed off in the book or mini series anyway...the attack just push him out of commission. I think they did it because they had given Mike's thing about books, researching and being a history buff to Ben and putting him in the hospital in part 2 would have taken even more away from the character they'd only left racism being his main struggle in part 1? Its the only thing I really have an issue with in part 1 😕
@@gRinchY-op5vr Yeah 😕. I think Ben being into history was fine-it dovetails nicely with his interest in architecture-but maybe they could've maintained Mike's book/miniseries history interest, too, and have them bond over it. Anything to give Mike more to do /and/ more moments between the Losers which, IMO, is why IT is so beloved.
I was kinda of thinking that too. It wouldn't feel right to have the only black guy get benched for the whole movie when they could just... not do that
I think the "you're a clown" thing was less just pointing it out and more; Emphasizing that thats ALL that he is; he is a clown.But hes *only* a clown and thats what made him shrink.
I always wonder why Pennywise can't focus. I get that you like playing with your food, mate, makes it taste better or however that goes, but these guys nearly killed you when they were 11. Maybe settle for less pleasant meal for the sake of safety, yeah?
that's why he can't focus my man. this meal nearly killed him. he had them on a plate and was ready to chow down and then they nearly offed him. and now this meal is back bigger and stronger and said meal knows how to beat him. Pennywise has one weapon: fear and the instant they stopped being afraid he's in deep shit. Pennywise is an Opportunist hunter IT goes after children cause they are easy prey for it. The only time he ever on screen goes after an adult it's the nearly dead gay guy. Pennywise's only play from the moment the losers club returned to derry was to convince them to leave.
The book partially goes into detail why Pennywise chooses to go after them. There's a chapter or two from IT's perspective and it talks about how much hate it feels for the losers club for almost killing it. And that knowing they're back, IT wants to get revenge. To IT they're the ultimate prey and if IT is the embodiment of fear, then IT itself can't have a fear. So by killing them, IT proves a point.
I mean, if he were REALLY smart he would have just eaten Beverly during the first movie when he kidnapped her. The other kids were going to come try to find her anyway, there was no reason to leave her alive. Also it turned the strongest one of the Losers into a damsel in distress. Easily the worst choice in the first movie.
So Pennywise is a cosmic being who created a mortal avatar to walk among us but takes the form of whatever our minds can comprehend/fear. That seems way easier to understand.
My takeaway was that belief (in what you fear) gives it power, so belief (that you can overcome fear) can take it away. A certain symetry to that. Not going to use the M word.
"Deadlights" are a cosmic... uh... entity, or phenomenon, or alien _universe..._ violently incompatible with human minds. "IT" is a borderline comprehensible aspect of the Deadlights that we tend to perceive as a spider. "Pennywise" is ITS proboscis reaching into our world to feed.
The other way around! Pennywise the Clown is a favorite form of IT; IT is the shapechanging nightmare avatar created by the Spider as an extension of itself small enough to insert into our world like a stinger/proboscis/ovipositor/unpleasant-insectoid-appendage-of-choice; and the Spider in turn is the borderline humanly comprehensible avatar or aspect of the mindcrushingly alien being/phenomenon/world called the Deadlights.
It was honestly you who got me to finally do nebula. I thought I’d easily resist it forever. But alas, Dear Presenter. Your work has offered me a warm shelter from the cold of UA-cam.
Tom and Audre showing up in Derry was the universe trying to make up for Stanly and Henry Bowers not being present at the fight with Pennywise the 2nd time. Mike got to be there mentally, but the other two weren't. I think there's some weird language about the two time lines almost converging and appropriate players needing to play parts.
See, that was mu problem with these movies fromthe start - as soon as I saw in the first one they were dividing the movies by age group I sat in the theater and thought to myself "But this defuses the entire adult half of the story since we willalready know how to defeat Pennywise..." That conceit in the book was not just for show - it was really the ony way to keep the tension up for the entire store and removing that interminglingof time lines screws thinsg up.
@@kianbakker3691 I'm not sure actually. I suddenly in the mood to watch Dom video about Stephen King novel, so I just opened the playlist. This video just newly update in the playlist, but it wasn't in video list. I'm not sure why but I just watched it and comment.
I thought the book was more ambiguous about what happened to Maturin. Like I know that It says he died, but he's just in his shell and not coming out. That's how I remember it anyway.
Of course part 1 wasn't filmed like that so it makes it harder to add it retroactively [and it would be nearly 6 hours long] but it would be a challenge.
9:10 would’ve worked if Deadpool never came out, if that song wasn’t used in it, or if a different song entirely was used. The joke of the most disgusting thing imaginable happening to Eddie being portrayed via “pretend this isn’t happening by music” could work it just… had the wrong parts in the wrong places
As someone who's read too much King too often, I find his 80s-era takes on cheating interesting. Bill/Bev and the couple in The Mist are at one sympathetic end, where the odds are that they're both going to die before it ever becomes relevant to anyone's relationship (and the wife in the latter has a good chance of already being dead), the ongoing affair that fucks everyone up in Cujo is at the other (though Donna still gets sympathy and motivation) and in the middle there are cases like those in Pet Semetary, where they're character flaws or errors but aren't supposed to really make the cheaters bad people. I don't have the experience of general fiction of the time to say for sure, but one possibility is that, in an age where ethical non-monogamy wasn't a thing most people hadn't even heard of and even more people than today got married without really understanding their sexual desires, a one-off or so wasn't as huge a deal. Like, yes, bad--Bill and Mist Guy certainly angst about it--but more of a human foible than a relationship deal-breaker or indelible stain on your character. Anyhow, that was lengthy. I loved the video, and at the moment I can't help but draw parallels between Derry's relationship to IT and our own country's bargain with the unthinkable because people think it'll make them more prosperous. Or, indeed, the many times in the past that we've done the same. Maybe Derry is the US in microcosm. ...is it too early to have a drink?
4:25 The book dropped some lines that Ben grew up to be hot AF. When he was a kid, there's a scene where he smiles and it mentions you could see the handsome man he'd become in the lines on his face. Then Richie notes he could be a model at the reunion. Other little things, like the women in the podunk town he lives in as an adult (and commutes to jobs via private jet) would love to screw him senseless.
I borrowed a copy of IT from my library because of this video. I’ve read Stephen King’s bricks before: Four Past Midnight, Tommyknockers, Needful Things, and The Stand. Tried to read 11/22/63 but I couldn’t find the time. Point is I know what to expect and even with that I’ve liked IT. Thanks Dom for getting me to read the book.
A decade plus to be honest. I was a 14 in 2014 and it was distinctly uncool. I could see someone in their late twenties saying it since they were a young adult when it was popping off
16:43 Liked the twisted vision Bill has showing what Pennywise did when he initially showed up, turning into various beasts of Native American folklore IE a Wendigo, Thunderbird and a Skinwalker. Kind of scary to imagine the types of monsters he turned into when superstition and fear of the unknown was more prominent
I read once that the Muschiettis were thinking about doing a 5-hour supercut of the movie more in line with the book; I keep holding out hope for it to be real
@@ellagoreyshorrorstories7524welcome to Derry is the 1962 cycle of violence before the first movie that takes place in 1989 but I hope they’ll include ideas from the book like kids getting got by universal monsters like Frankenstein and the Creature from the Black Lagoon since it’s closer to that era
The film did great with the Dead Lights. In both this and the book version, if you even try to explain their existence, it feels like you are dwelling into chaos theory. That's a definition of the eldritch; so sinister and ghostly, with a caliber way beyond the human mind. Eldritch horror is extremely difficult to put into film and actually be scary; you need the time to think about it and can't be compressed on a simple jumpscare. This is one of the reasons we will likely never get a Cthulhu movie that will do Lovecraft's writing any from of justice.
listening to this made me realize that Stephen King is kind of an alternate universe Terry Pratchett. Books that don't translate well to movies, terrible track record with adaptations, writing that works because of the way it makes you feel, not the actual description, complicated universes set up across books. also giant turtles heavily involved in their creation myths
This movie is weird. Where I think the first one had a much firmer grasp of its tone, this one can’t decide if it’s wacky and goofy or serious or if it’s trying to do The Godfather Part II and it’s almost three hours long for some reason.
I think one of the biggest problems I had with IT Chapter 2 was the overabundance of goofy jumpscares. I like new part 1 better than miniseries part 1, but I like miniseries part 2 better than new part 2.
my theory for the "it's female" thing is that it's not actually a woman, but it wants the characters to believe it can reproduce so it can use that power to make itself able to, therefore continuing after death,
I feel like It's actually reproducing, or trying to--one of the POV bits mentions the adult Losers "crushing the life out of Its spawn"--but gender doesn't actually come into the process, it's just that 1984 Humans equate "lays eggs" with "female."
The book does indeed suggest that Ben grew up hot. He started running and eating salads - lost the weight. The barman he speaks to remarks to himself that many of the women in the town he was in would have given a lot to go to bed with Ben.
To me Chapter 2 would've been better if... 1) No flashbacks with sidequest for the ritual (which turns out to be pointless anyway so it feels like a waste of time) 2) Change that Henry Bowers died in Part 1 falling down the well, replace him with Tom. 3) They kind of introduce the turtle as some kind of Big Good figure but make it work so that an audience can buy into it 4) Less jumpscares, and utilize Adrian's lover and some other people who are sort of neo-Losers who help out the protagonists 5) Going kind of back with the turtle, they should've focused more on the Cosmic Horror Story side of Pennywise/IT, make the film dreadful and tense by writing and executing well the crushing sensations these reveals have on the characters. If it's not scary, at least make it engaging and interesting. The poor actors had to carry the whole film on themselves, they needed better material.
I always thought the scene where young Bill confronts Pennywise by the storm grate was so well done, not in the book but shows how much the movie's creators understood the source material and Bill/Pennywise's book characters and motivations
Honestly whenever I try to picture the book version of the final battle in my head I always get this spacey background in my head with IT More or less just being some old JRPG endboss from this SNES era. I mean there's already enough parts of the plot surprisingly in line with Earthbound.
Stanley's death through fear of what will happen, is distressing of course, but I think that it's pretty powerful as it originally was. Stanley as a now reasonably well adjusted adult, fearing the situation so intensely that he mentally broke extremely quickly acts as a reminder that none of us is all that tough.
Fun fact. In the scene where we meet adult Ben, we see a hefty gentleman to fake us out before we meet super hot Ben. This man played kid Ben in the original miniseries.
Yes!! Not only that he actually read the script and wished he’d gotten to be in more of it but said he gets it since he’s a background character and his days as a Handscome are over, he was really sweet about the whole cameo
Huh, that’s really cool.
Oh yes, Brandon Crane. He popped up in a few "The Wonder Years" episodes, thanks so much for sharing.
@@trinaq ... I saw both the miniseries and The Wonder Years millions of times, how did I never notice?!
I think the whole "Ben got hot" thing was talked about in the book. It's been a while since I read it, but I remember that.
To explain Pennywise and the Dead Lights.
Imagine a fish in a pond. A human reaches into the pond. The fish sees the hand in the pond, but doesn't see the human. The fish doesn't understand what a hand is, and can only relate it to similar looking things; maybe worms. The fish represents the kids. The hand is Pennywise. And the human is the Dead Lights. Even if the fish bites the hand, it doesn't kill the human.
This is also why in later Stephen King novels, there are hints that Pennywise has returned in some fashion. Because humans have more than one hand. If the Dead Lights loses Pennywise, it can always reach back in later with another hand.
what a cool analogy!! did you come up with this?
@@abagegael It's from a Magic: The Gathering story. There's things in that canon called Eldrazi, which basically work the same way, except a lot less subtle than Pennywise (they are basically skyscraper sized eldritch abominations that reformat the matter of the world they appear in into a blank state that a new world can be created from).
This is pretty much how I imagine all of the Eldritch creatures from the Cthulhu mythos to be. They don't really look the way we represent them, that's just the portion of their essence that we can see in our dimension.
And then there's his cousin out there in Endworld. He's a rather more friendly fellow...Just likes telling jokes.
I heard Mr. Gray from Dreamcatcher might be a variation (and is mentioned in another King work). Or even the guy from the Dark Tower series? I need to look it up again.
I would have voted for Tim Curry as the possible limo cameo. The original Penny Wise just chilling the the back seat!
Better yet have him be in Richie’s audience and call him out for stealing a joke, to make it better, make the joke “EXCUSE ME SIR! Do you have Prince Albert in a can? YOU DO?! WELL YOU BETTER LET THE POOR GUY OUT!”
Sadly, he's disabled now and probably wouldn't be able to, but the thought is great.
@@selkiefluff he still does voice work so they could have had a radio cameo instead
@Frenchaboo What?! I hadn't heard that. What happened to him?
@@scaper8
I think he had a stroke, if I'm remembering right. Whatever it was, he retired shortly after.
Everyone was great in this but Jay Ryan's performance as adult Ben stood out to me because he carried himself like someone who's painfully aware that they "used to be ugly" despite currently being super conventionally attractive. It's such a specific vibe and he nailed it so well
Do we know if he was fat as a kid? Because that would explain how natural and relatable the acting was
Being formerly fat myself I expected to hate his performance, but damn...
Jay Ryan simply nailed it as adult Ben. That lack of confidence that comes with the fat kid inside the mind is too hard to embody without looking arrogant.
One of the reasons why the murder of Adrian Mellon hits so hard is because it was based on the murder of Charlie Howard a young gay man who was attacked and killed in a very similar way back in 1984 and the worst thing is that even if the killers were captured they did not face any serious jailtime for what they did
Glad someone else pointed it out. So many people don't know that the murder of Adrian had very real life parallels
People vandalized the memorial a few years ago unfortunately 😕
yeah the three boys who did it had admitted to harming gay people prior to charlie howard. crazy how many people at the time genuinely believed he was partially responsible because he was “open” about it. and how many people excused the boys cause it’s “just teenage boys doing teenage boy things”
I didn't know about the 1984 murder but I remember when I was in college (maybe 6 or 7 years ago) hearing on the news that a gay high school boy was killed by his class mates.
@@ironwolf5802was that the one where they literally nailed him to a fence?
I was also shell-shocked by the opening hate crime as someone who didn't read the book, being a 1) gay man 2) with asthma 3) named Adrian
Wow, a triple whammy! That certainly must have been a shock. 😮
ALARM
I was shell shocked and I’m none of those things 😭💀 accept for gay, but I’m a woman. I wasn’t expecting a kind of violent horror right off the bat of a realistic hate crime when the movie I thought I was about supernatural/ ancient lovecraftian horror, I was LIKE AYO DONT DO THAT WHAT AYO-
Gsus that must have been such a weird moment 0.o
@@heelixes Well, in the book, the crime is much more horrific than the movie in my opinion and there's actually conclusion to that scene. In the book, the perpetrators age was 15, 17 and 18 years old and one of them saw Pennywise killed Adrian. After that, all three of them were arrested and their defense were they just wanted to beats Adrian, not to kill him. It was the clown that kills him, not them. Of course the cops didn't believe it, but Don also had the same story. Finally, the cops and the DA decided to omitted that part of the story in court and the 18 and 17 years old got first degree manslaughter and send to prison. The 15 years old got trial as juvenile and got second degree manslaughter.
Bill Hader said in an interview that when he heard Finn Wolfhard had said he'd like to see Hader play the adult vessjon of his character, he thought that was kind of cool, but when he got the call for the actual audition, his first thought was "This Wolfhard kid has some POWER!"
Bill Hader's entire press tour for It II was just wonderful. Not a single interview was a miss.
The old lady scene was genuinely creepy, but as soon as the CGI monster appeared, my whole cinema burst out laughing. There's nothing like a "Bad Laugh", when you crack up at something that you know isn't supposed to be funny, but scary.
Been trying to skip ahead in the book 📕 to find that chapter
the cgi hag was so insanely bad 😂
I get that reaction when Richie gets hit by the Deadlights in the film. The physicality of the moment is stupidly funny to me, and overrides the horror of the moment.
The version of this scene in the TV miniseries is much closer to how it happens in the book. I hated the CG witch, so dumb in context. Looked like something out of Pan's Labyrinth.
@@Ravuun don't shame Pan's Labyrinth like that, that film used practical effects and had legit creepy creatures chasing the kid 🤨🤣
A big thing that was left out that I miss, but understand why it's not there with run time for the movie, was the stories Mike was compiling about all the known signings and times of IT. He was able to pin point almost every recording of IT through the history of Derry, from the people who were there. It was super unsettling when Mike would ask about the Clown, and the people would slowly and reluctantly tell him about seeing IT and how it always seemed to float, even against the wind
I'm really hoping the series covers some of that
@@GlitterFlame89I think we got confirmation that some of those stories will be included. At least the Black Spot.
@@jonathandorton3337 Oh awesome! Last I heard it wasn't confirmed if any would be included, that is great news!
There were some references to the interludes. I have seen the films in a while but I think The Black Spot is brought up in conversation. And then one of the scares in the first film is burnt hands and children screams a reference to the explosion at the iron works.
I really hope it happens, those stories were very interesting
They could have had a great scene for Beverly with the old woman by playing on her insecurities, having the woman talk about solitude and being alone, and maybe hinting that this will happen to her too if she doesn't settle for her husband or other shitty men because she's not good enough to deserve better etc. Maybe have the woman slowly morph to look like an older Beverly (or like her mother). They could have a nice bit of psychological horror instead of jump scare nr. 14
I seem to remember that scene being done pretty well in the TV movie. Goofy as it was at times, it had a good grasp of how to do creeping dread.
This was how it was done in the book, with King painting a very vivid picture of the slow transformation from kindly old lady to hag
@@yissnakklives8866 The bit that stuck out about that scene for me was Bev's coffee turning into soiled sewer water. That was rank.
I suspect part of the reason why Adrian Mellon’s death felt so real was because, well King based it on a real case.
Namely the murder of Charlie Howard in 1984.
And sadly so many LGBTQ+ hate crimes since Charlie’s death when King wrote the story. It’s such an uncomfortable scene in both the book and film
King's self deprecation in the movie as he disses Bill about His endings is one of My favorite parts.
"Nah, i didnt like the ending" love it when an author has a sense of humor😂😂😂😂
Give ur to King he has been good own wrist critic
I have always enjoyed reading the fore/afterwords of King's books. His conversational style and sense of humor is quite wonderful, and you really get a sense of humility from how willing he is to poke fun at himself.
especially since he said multiple times hes bad at writing endings. (Although I disagree, since I like a simple not dramatic end)
@@darthvedder7664 honestly I've always seen him as got and miss with endings. Done of his endings I find as bad I still like. It for example I find the ending goofy and dumb and cheesey but I kind of love it because of that
Him making fun of himself did make me laugh in the theatre. The man is more than aware of what people have said about his endings for the last 50 years 😅
In the book Stan had the WORST experience with IT. He saw the scariest/nastiest stuff as a kid. So his suicide in the opening was understandable.
I think that was accurately conveyed in the movie. He was the only one who had his face sucked on. I can only imagine the ptsd he went through from the phone call alone.
My favourite line from the book happens after young Eddie has his arm broken by Butch Bowers and Eddie's mother blames the Loser's Club and tells Eddie they are bad friends. After she leaves, Eddie thinks about his friends:
“Maybe there aren't any such things as good friends or bad friends-maybe there are just friends, people who stand by you when you're hurt and who help you feel not so lonely. Maybe they're always worth being scared for, and hoping for, and living for. Maybe worth dying for too, if that's what has to be. No good friends. No bad friends. Only people you want, need to be with; people who build their houses in your heart.” ― Stephen King (It)
A pretty good definition of friendship, as far as I'm concerned.
I think Eddie is made a bit more of a jerk to help fill in all the blank spaces left by removing Richie's excessive racist 'humor'
I loved Eddie being a little asshole. Sometimes kids are assholes! And he was a cute one.:) I just appreciated how real all the kids felt.
I think it's also because that kid actor was naturally the funniest, so they decided to let him shine in this movie. Apparently, that kid (Jack Dylan Grazer) came up with many of Richie's best jokes in the first movie and improvised a lot of Eddie's funniest lines.
@@amityislandchumThat’d explain why I also think his actor is a highlight of the Shazam movies, then. He’s a funny kid.
About Beverly's friend not being able to bring herself to report the crime. It isn't a criticism of feminism, it's a criticism of the society we live in that Kay was so afraid of reporting the assault because she, as a feminist, knows that very little would be done by the law to protect a woman.
An odd change in chapter 1 was making it so Ben was interested in researching Derry's history instead of Mike, yet Mike is still the one to stay behind and act as the town librarian.
Yeah I thought it was stupid to give Ben half of Mike's character traits knowing Mike had to stay and be the one interested in history for the story to work at all.
@@baixiaolang Yeah, Mike got the short end of the stick for most of the first movie. He's just kind of there. Like Stan.
There's something about that I just can't put my finger on... Possibly related to Mike being shafted in the first part too 🤔
The woke movie turned Bev into a damsel in distress and made the one black character superfluous to the story. Amazing.
@@Laneous14 It's staggering to me how people don't notice how backwards this movie is. One of the most randomly casually racist mainstream productions I've seen in decades.
How great would it have been if they'd gotten Tim Curry to be the celebrity in the back of Eddie's limo? Missed opportunities!
Sadly, he suffered a massive stroke a while back and was not capable of even a cameo scene.
@@BluegrassGeek Ah, I had forgotten about that, scared the hell out of me to hear it happened to him.
@@Mad_Oph Well maybe you could have it be Seth Green or still be Tim Curry but have a stunt double in place of Tim Curry and have Tim Curry voice over him.
Given that there's a whole section in the book describing Bill's feud with a literature professor who insisted *every* story has to have some sort of deeper meaning where Bill stuck to the idea that sometimes a story is just a story, I'm gonna say that what happened to Bev's friend had literally no significance beyond "plot point."
I always thought if it had a message, then given how cynical King can be, it probably was not an attack on feminism so much as a grim nod to the reality that sometimes evil can overcome good.🎉
It also did feel like a logical thing that would happen with the characters as written. Like it wouldn't have been necessary for this movie, but in the book I totally buy that Tom would go do that after Beverly escapes him. So it's not like it felt like it came out of nowhere. I do like that the majority of King's writing feels like something that would naturally happen with the characters as he established them.
Pennywise being beaten via insults does work given that he feeds off of fear so people not being afraid of him at all and throwing the torment back at him could be seen as his kryptonite. But it was still pretty ridiculous to see on screen especially given what the adult Losers Club went through for the entire movie.
Yeah it feels like the ending where the loser club defeating penny wise as kids comapre to them as adults feel like it show be switch around. Like it would be fitting for the kids going "your just a clown" while the adults go "I'm so sick your shit" and beat the shit out of penny wise.
He isn't beaten by insults in the film, lol... it's the losers believing what they are saying that defeats it. It's so simple to understand
@@idiot_city5444 I know that's the idea behind it but I would have written the scene differently if I was in charge.
I prefer them "beating the mashed potatoes" out of IT and ripping ITs' heart out 😂
why did “youre just a clown” even hurt him so bad 😂 he is literally a clown
You mention Stan’s wife (Patricia Blum) as left out, and I wanted to add a piece of writing I really liked about her even if it never could’ve made it to screen.
In the early chapters of the book, Patricia says that Stan found Bill’s books and was delighted to find a friend from his childhood was now a published author. But Patricia doesn’t like Bill’s book at all, she considers stories of werewolves and other creatures tearing kids apart to be distasteful. Afterwards, she goes on to describe the intense anger she sometimes feels as a result of growing up so heavily discriminated against. She describes being in a grocery store like normal when she hears a laugh like the one she heard when she was turned away from prom for being Jewish.
From the book,
“Then the hate and shame would come flooding back like a migraine headache and she would despair not only for herself but for the whole human race. Werewolves. The book by Denbrough-the one she had tried to read and then put aside-was about werewolves. Werewolves, shit. What did a man like that know about werewolves?”
In a book at least partly about the trauma of growing up marginalized and how that trauma and hate and despair follows you, something about that passage has always stood out to me. You can even read it as King criticizing (or at least acknowledging criticism of) his habit of writing about bigotry from the perspectives of people belonging to groups he’s not a part of. After all, what does a man like that know about werewolves?
I struggle with my relationship to King’s work a lot as a queer woman, as I find his works can both reinforce a lot of harmful stereotypes while also beautifully portraying those experiences. Like this video says, he writes about fear. And fear is tied so closely into persecution and bigotry. It’s hard for me to fully describe the rage I carry with me every day knowing that the bigotry that directly killed and hurt people I knew was performed by people who are right next to me in the grocery store, but King manages to get that across in a brief minor character who’s barely worth naming in a plot synopsis. That’s why I keep coming back to his work even despite the myriad of flaws.
Maybe if people let go of identity politics and just wrote characters as authors and read characters as readers without needing "representation" they could enjoy fiction the way the human race has since the dawn of time.
Just a thought. That said I don't really like King's work because it tends to be too formulaic for me so I don't know about knowing about werewolves :P
@@bleedingberryjuiceThe idea that humans have enjoyed fiction “since the dawn of time” is kind of ridiculous considering mass produced novels are an incredibly recent invention, and novels have always been highly political. Authors like Radcliffe Hall have had their work burned for writing queer characters, Hitler imprisoned authors for writing things he didn’t like (he wanted to imprison the author of All Quiet on the Western Front, for example), and the types of books that the average person has been able to get into their hands have ALWAYS been a highly political process. Sure, “audiences ‘needing’ representation” (need is in quotes because i’ve read hundreds of books with nothing but straight white men in it) now might seem annoying, but it’s better than the days when it was literally impossible for people outside of the majority to get their books read on a wide scale.
Beyond that, I don’t understand how you can ignore identity politics when King’s work is often directly about identity politics. You want me to ignore how he writes about minorities… in a book that’s largely about how society treats minorities. So you want me to just ignore the words he writes? This novel spends literal chapters exploring how being a minority affects your life, how can you “ignore identity politics” in a work that is ABOUT identity politics? You’re asking me to just straight up not engage with the ideas King is writing about.
finally, you saying “If you could ignore identity politics you could enjoy his work” is kind of a dumb reply to my comment where I openly praise his work? Especially considering what I LOVE about It (which is one of my favorite books, I’ve read the entire thing three times and reread specific chapters dozens of times) is how it handle identity politics. Ignoring identity politics would take away something I like about this work, not make me like it more. I love King’s books, I own several and plan to read more. But at the same time, I can also criticize it. Fun fact, hundreds of thousands of people every day enjoy media that they acknowledge has flaws. I dont understand this idea so many people have that acknowledging any flaw in a work ruins your ability to enjoy it. I like work that challenges me, I like work that makes me sit down and think, I like work with complex themes and characters. And when you seek out work like that, you’re inevitably going to find things you disagree with. If you only ever read and enjoy books you 100% agree with politically, you’re never going to grow as a person or learn how to do deeper media analysis and criticism.
@@neonradiustechnically, fiction has been around since the dawn of time. Cavemen probably told "fish stories" around the fire about the time they killed "the biggest animal you've ever seen." Plus, there's also The Illiad, The Odyssey, and the old, uncensored fairy tales that existed before writing stories was a thing
A truly Noble attempt to explain the macroverse and the deadlights. Oh goodness I was laughing so hard by the end of it when you mentioned the Crimson King. Bravo!
The whole time I was thinking, “Well, when you say it out loud…..”. But yeah, for me it “made a lot more sense” when I was reading it, especially the first time when I was a kid. If you just went with it and used your imagination it was cool, which also fits in really well with a main theme at that point in the story. MAN, King is a good writer!
The whole idea of the hate crime was that the town is evil to a paranormal extent, caused by pennywise. And that hate crime is the horrific event that started the cycle. They didn’t really go into the whole cycle thing as much as in the book but they’re started by a horrific event, and ended by one as well. There’s other events talked about in the book too, not just that one. When they defeat pennywise in the book, like half the town physically falls apart too, in a way showing how much of Derry was pennywise.
Pennywise basically used Derry as its nest. So, when It died, so did most of Derry.
@@RabbitShirak precisely, as well as a good portion of Derry itself being a manifestation of pennywise
I have to say I really like the decision they made regarding the Losers not forgetting everything again at the end.
I always read them losing their memories magically as a metaphor for the very real repression and loss of memories that can be caused by trauma. So I like that they still remember at the end of this movie, implying that they have overcome/worked through that trauma. Forgetting again also just always felt a bit underwhelming to me.
Generally, especially when I re-read the book as an adult, the theme that stuck out most to me was all the ways in which suppressed childhood trauma can follow people into their adult lives. (While, when first I read it as a teen, the childhood belief side of things was what I found most memorable.)
Anyway, great breakdown!
Yeah, forgetting always felt like they hadn't mentally dealt with anything (physically they had by defeating IT, but mentally and emotionally they were still blocking things out by forgetting). Plus it makes sense given when they first leave Derry they forget, as that's is IT ensuring they don't think to come back...remembering is the ultimate sign IT is gone?
100% agree. I was so disappointed when they it was revealed that they were once again losing their memories after defeating It the second time. Having them retain their memories was a far better ending because it demonstrated that they had finally faced their childhood trauma and no longer needed to suppress their past. Having them forget in the book just felt so messed up, especially after Eddie's sacrifice.
This. Plus there was a whole Thing in 1970s/1980s speculative fiction where of course people forget about the magical stuff or it goes away or whatever at the end, because, IDK "realism" or something, and I loathe it.
"It more sense in the original" is basically one of King's main features, alongside taking place in Maine and having a drunk author as a character.
Don't forget the obligatory psychic characters. That's a big one on the Steven King Bingo card as well.
Psychic kids especially. The Nostalgia Critic has a playlist of King movies, in his video on the It miniseries, he starts a King drinking game 😂😂😂
If I could play Devil's Advocate for the suicide note, it could be seen as Stanley feeling an intense lack of self-worth. Something I personally can identify with.
That’s a thought I also had… as someone who hasn’t seen EITHER movie, tho, I should admit that FRAMING could be the make-or-break part.
It seems like everyone agrees that the framing is not supposed to be “oh, this is a real thing that people struggle with, and an extra layer of tragedy to Stanley’s death”, everyone seems to find it as “no, it’s okay - it was a noble sacrifice, so it isn’t that bad, actually…”
And THAT… that’s not okay
@@phastinemoon I haven't seen the movies either. So if it is indeed framed poorly, I have no defence for that.
I’ve always seen it as that’s how Stan felt at the time, nor that his death was supposed to be some noble sacrifice.
@@phastinemoonI think that’s a person problem. I didn’t come out of that finding that to be a sacrifice, I came out of that crying my eyes out because one of my favorite characters thought they were better off without him around.
OK from someone who nearly walked out of the movie when the letters arrived... To make the suicide a "noble sacrifice" is complete BS. It's this simple: Stan remembered everything, the moment he got the call. He couldn't handle a) the sudden information dump or b) the fact that his reality was warped so badly as a child that he completely forgot it. His brain broke.
10:37 - Okay, so I think I know why they didn't include Adult Richie switching to contacts. Keep in mind that this is just a theory, though.
In real life, Bill Hader has an autoimmune condition that affects his vision, particularly in his left eye. It’s not noticeable unless you’re looking for it, but if you look at his left eye, you can see that it’s a bit more squinty and droopy than the right eye.
Because of this condition (he's never said what he specifically has, BTW), Bill does need to wear glasses, sometimes. It’s hard to know just how much he relies on them, but in the most recent interviews and talk show appearances I’ve seen him in, it seems to me that he wears glasses pretty much on the regular, now - maybe because he's gotten older or maybe because his condition has gotten worse or both. Around the time he was filming “IT Chapter 2,” though, his glasses use seemed more sporadic. I don't think his vision was quite as bad back then and he didn't need to wear them all the time.
Also, I don't know if Bill has the ability to wear contacts or not, but I do know that his condition affects the MUSCLES around his eye so maybe wearing contacts would be painful or just not possible for him to wear.
Therefore, I think they let Adult Richie keep his glasses because of Bill Hader's real-life vision issues. Wearing contacts might not have been something his condition could actually let him do.
Furthermore, considering that this is a movie with stunts and with a very intensive shooting schedule (Andy Muschietti is, apparently, a perfectionist that made all the actors do dozens of takes just for a single scene), it probably wouldn't surprise me if it turns out the glasses he wore for the movie were real and not just prop glasses. Whatever his condition might be, it seems like it's sensitive to light and affected by stress, so it makes sense that he WOULD want to wear a real pair of glasses - for sake of his health and so that he can keep on acting in a long-ass movie without exacerbating anything.
This wins the award for most parasocial thing I've seen online this week.
I assumed it was just to help the audience remember who he was since he doesn't look that much the the actor playing his child self. And it makes the group feel more diverse. Plus they were already jam packed with info, they didn't need a whole subplot about glasses being nerdy.
@levischorpioen Heh, well...Bill Hader is actually my celebrity crush. A few years ago, I fell down the UA-cam rabbit hole and ended up watching a whole bunch his interviews and talk show appearances and Saturday Night Live sketches. I've been admiring him ever since.
I don't mean to be parasocial, I know what the pitfalls are, I just think he's a super nice and really talented dude! Did you know that when he was on SNL he used have really bad panic attacks? And, yet, he still went out there and performed every single week! I just think it's really brave of him keep going back out on that stage even if the fear was overwhelming like that.
I try to keep a cool head and I try not to go overboard but maybe I was a little too enthusiastic when I wrote my original post. Oops. This just happens to be something I'm super knowledgeable in and I wanted to share.
Thank you letting me know, though. I would rather be told that I'm going too far than to not be told at all, right?
@levischorpioen Heh, well...Bill Hader is actually my celebrity crush. A few years ago, I fell down the UA-cam rabbit hole and ended up watching a whole bunch his interviews and talk show appearances and Saturday Night Live sketches. I've been admiring him ever since.
I don't mean to be parasocial, I know what the pitfalls are, I just think he's a super nice and really talented dude! Did you know that when he was on SNL he used have really bad panic attacks? And, yet, he still went out there and performed every single week! I just think it's really brave of him keep going back out on that stage even if the fear was overwhelming like that.
I try to keep a cool head and I try not to go overboard but maybe I was a little too enthusiastic when I wrote my original post. Oops. This just happens to be something I'm super knowledgeable in and I wanted to share.
Thank you letting me know, though. I would rather be told that I'm going too far than to not be told at all, right?
Bill Hader was the best choice as Adult Richie, you really believed him becoming a comedian to hide his deep seated issues. I wish that they'd explored Eddie and Ritchie's relationship more.
Seeded
He is SUCH a good actor! Absolutely knocked it out of the park!
BTW, if anyone wants to explore Bill Hader's more dramatic side of acting, I highly recommend both the show he made for HBO, "Barry," and a movie called "The Skeleton Twins." They're fabulous!
@the_exodusrex3385 "Seated" is the correct term when you say something is "deep seated."Seeded" is the incorrect term. A quick Google search will clear up the definitions for you.
@@the_exodusrex3385 Sorry, no. It's "seated."
It's Richie and Mike who see the vision in the smokehole in the book. It's the smoke burning his eyes that adult Ritchie feels in his contacts forcing him to return to glasses
I got so excited hearing your enthusiastic acclaim of 'succulent Chinese meal', was not expecting that reference. And then I immediately saw a comment, 'you know your judo well'. I love y'all 😂
So basically what I'm hearing here is, my decision to watch the 2nd movie first out of sheer boredom on an intercontinental flight was the CORRECT thing to do.
Cause I too was freaking out with the adults, having no idea HOW A BUNCH OF KIDS BEAT THAT UNHOLY ABOMINATION!! 😅😂
Yeah, the book is about the adults going back for some random reason, and they regain parts of their memories as the story happens, and it all comes together by the end. The orginal TV film captures the structure of the book better and it also frames the narrative incredibly well vs the remark.
@@gilbertoflores7397pretty sure in the book mike just calls them cause its been 27 years so It wakes up and starts eating again and he notices
Derry self destructing in a localized hurricane is *wonderfully* foreshadowed in the book, one of the characters asks another (I think child-timeline Beverly) if she killed a spider she saw and when Bev says no the other character says "good, killing spiders will make it rain" which...I see what you did there, Stephen.
Oh you picked *that* page for the "sometimes mid-sentence" bit, did you? Cheeky.
The change with Ritchie being gay and secretly in love with Eddie was one I actually liked. Maybe because I'm not straight myself, but I appreciated the representation (especially in a character that, you know, survives).
It/Pennywise actually being part of an eldritch horror from beyond the boundaries of the universe is actually one of my favorite elements from the book, because I love eldritch horror. I still wish they'd made It's final physical form more spider-y, King's original inspiration for it was Shelob after all. Stretchy tooth-hole Pennywise face is still a neat visual though.
Tom and Audra's reduced role in the film isn't anything super-disappointing, but I did miss Henry being picked up on the road by Belch's corpse driving Christine. Maybe that'd have been too on-the-nose in a film.
I'd actually completely forgotten about the letter Stan wrote, and yeah, that change feels like such a cop-out on the filmmaker's part. I suppose nothing's perfect.
Re: The fate of Derry. I always found the city being destroy AND it surviving being... underwhelming. Mostly because the people of Derry caused so many horrible things to happen and just... forgot. And they never know what they did.
I read somewhere a suggestion for an alternate ending where the Losers make it out of the sewers only to find Derry silent. And as they begin to walk towards main street they discover the bodies, with hastily written suicide notes; everyone, upon Pennywise dying, remembered everything they had done. How they had turned a blind eye time and time and time again to children dying. And unable to live with the guilt they killed themselves. The final line was that then the Losers Club began to hear the sobbing of the children and the dark realization they are now in a ghost town with a ton of orphans.
and then you turn the page to see "children of the corn" written in it.
XD
That’s really dark but also rather fitting given what happened up until that point
@@mollywantshugs5944 And deeply naive and unrealistic... Look what happens after atrocities in real life. People find a scapegoat and keep on doing what they were doing.
@@aimeem not sure why you directed that at me specifically, but people taking their lives from guilt is a thing that occasionally happens. It’s not exactly realistic that such a thing would happen to an entire town, but it’s definitely a striking image that fits with the book’s themes very well if nothing else
@aimeem unlike the striking realism of a shape shifting spider clown alien?
Margaret Atwood - I don't write Science Fiction, I write speculative fiction
Stephen King - I don't write horror, I write suspense
It's easy to forget that fantasy, scifi and horror used to be considered trash. Like what are you doing, dreaming? Nerd.
my favourite part of IT was the brief but very active period on tumblr where the fandom created a canon compliant band AU complete with collaborative actual recorded songs (one person would write some lyrics, another person would record themselves singing them, and a third person or more would record music to go with it), cover art, memes and references. you really had to be there, it was surreal but a lot of fun.
That sounds incredible, and I'm sorry I missed it.
This wasn't a LotR situation where they filmed multiple movies simultaneously? That is the weirdest thing about this movie.
I’m assuming the words “Stephen King movie” filled the studio with dread and they wanted to see how the first part did
LotR is basically the only example of filming a first movie with a sequel(s). Filming movies 2 and 3 together isn’t uncommon, but movies 1-2+ doesn’t really happen. The closest example I can think of it Kill Bill, but that was just one movie that got too long so the split it.
Actually, I think the new Kevin Costner movie Horizon: An American Saga (which he paid for himself) filmed at least one sequel (planned 4 total?) at the same time, but the first movie flopped hard which makes it difficult to release the sequel that was already film, and certain means the other sequels aren’t going to happen. Kevin Costner paid for it himself, but when studios have to use their own money, they’re not going to want to take the risk of filming two movies at the same time not knowing how well the first movie will do.
@ they just did it with those X horror movies with Mia Goth recently. It was very recent though
@@puxtbuck6731 I just did a quick check and am seeing different numbers, but it looks like the entire trilogy was made for $5-10M total. Yeah when you have super low budgets like those, there’s not much opposition to filming multiple movies.
The production cost for IT Chapter 1 was $35-40M, which is still relatively low. The cost for Chapter 2 was $80M, which would’ve cost less if filmed simultaneously, so maybe about $100M for both?
$100M to shot both movies simultaneously doesn’t seem like an unreasonable risk, but it’s New Line’s money so maybe the just wanted to do $40M for the first one and not risk another $60M?
Like the recent Dune films there was no guarantee they would be a sequel-if the first was a flop, the sequel wouldn't get made and they had to watch the budget so no filming for the sequel attend of time.
The idea of having a celebrity cameo as the theatre actor passenger being chauffeured by Eddie makes me sad because if it weren't for his health issues that would 100% be the perfect role for Tim Curry.
I prefer Bill Skarsgård performance in part two than part one. In the first movie, he’s just in creepy clown mode all the time, and this one you get to see him like trying trick kids by playing on their sympathy, he gets to goof around a little more, it feels more accurate and three-dimensional a villain
Except he's portraying a giant evil alien space clown.
IT might technically be four dimensional, but it's a very one dimensional character.
Giving more characterization to a giant space alien clown spider monster isn't necessary.
Kind of wish Mike Flannigan had been tapped for this. If people have seen one of his earlier films Oculus you’d see he’s quite good at telling two timelines simultaneously and telling a story that in concept may seem silly but in execution is quite scary.
He is also very, very good at adapting King's material, and Midnight Mass was so King-flavored it's shocking to me that it's a Flanagan original.
He is so far a master of adapting King's work, but theres less popular works he should adapt over something like IT I think
@@Ravuun It's basically just Salem's Lot with a ton of original themes crammed on top of it, and executed so much better.
He’s coming out with an adaptation of The Life of Chuck soon, one of King’s newer stories
@BuzzardPlanet97 I am very excited about this, especially since Mark Hamill is involved
4:49 you could even say that it is a killer klown from outer space
(i get pelted by tomatoes and am escorted off stage)
BAHAHAHAHAHA OMG he totally is oh no
Better tomatoes than flesh-dissolving pies.
I'm gonna knock your block off.
As decent as this stuff was, there's a reason I'm convinced Mike Flanagan is the only one allowed to adapt Stephen King novels. Doctor Sleep was legitimately masterful in how it managed to stay close to both the book AND Kubrick's film.
He is great, but don’t forget Frank Darabont
@etienneleroi9515 true! I guess I'm more so focusing on the horror side
Hello, what about John Carpenter?
@@etienneleroi9515definitely, they both excelled when given keys to the kingdom
@@kingofthegundam7974Carpenter openly said he just made “Christine” for the paycheck because of how much critics despised “The Thing”. He said he didn’t even read the book and doesn’t really like the film he made
I think the reason they turned the dead lights blue in the second film was to suggest they might be will o'wisps. Or perhaps ball lightning. The infamous swamp gas people are always told they see when they see bright lights in the wilderness.
It’s macroverse, not microverse. And Pennywise/IT is more like an avatar of the deadlights. in the book, IT does have a consciousness, as IT does HATE Maturin and often spits insults at it, suggesting that IT maybe more of like a Metatron for the Deadlights, acting as its voice and extension.
The little reference to Navi, without context, is the entire reason I watch this show so late into its lifespan.
For arguably the best adaptation of It, I might make the case for Mike Flanagan's The Haunting of Hill House. Yes, it really is a different story, based on an entirely different property, but Flanagan is deeply indebted, and has adapted King's work in the past. Hill House brilliantly utilizes the non linear story telling of It, hopping between adult and child versions of the same group of characters, who are being haunted by horrific and mysterious events of their childhood.
Gods yes, love Flanagan, i kind wish he tried to do IT.
@@TheParadoxGamer1
I'd rather have his Dark Tower series tbh
@ thats fair
Brought to you by the same guy who made a crazy, pink, monorail train who could only be "defeated" by telling it riddles as it sped across the wastelands where the end-track had crumbled centuries ago.
... ok what?
@alicepbg2042 in the 3rd dark tower book the protagonists escape from a city by climbing on a sentient pink monorail named "Blaine".
The A.I that powered Blaine had gone crazy and refused to let the group off the monorail,
It continued to accelerate which would eventually cause it to crash.
If I remember correctly Blaine would let them off if they could beat him in a game of riddles,
Most of the group fail except for the last guy (I think his name was eddie)
Throughout the book he had constantly made low brow and confusing jokes,
Instead of riddles he told his jokes which confused Blaine,
He then shot the computer that housed Blaine which destroyed him and caused the monorail to stop
@technounionrepresentative4274 oh... maybe I should read the dark tower books at some point.
"Why did the dead baby cross the road?"
"Because it was stapled to the chicken."
The whole Dark Tower series was a strange ride.
They explain why a lot of how belief and will works on IT in the book. When IT has his perspective chapter he reflects for the first time in his existence about his life. How he came to Earth because he knew humans would come. The losers had caused him pain for the first time and he realized that there were drawbacks to his power. The rules of the universe were the same for him. You had to obey the rules of the form you occupied. Which meant that if the wills were strong enough and his fear didn't cow them, they could hurt him with traditional weapons that can kill monsters. Rituals, silver, charmed weapons, etc...... In the book Richie uses at least one joke weapon, sneezing or itching powder and It is temporarily disabled as he sneezes massive snot globs.
I gotta say, they nailed the adult as people who convincingly look like older versions of the kids. Of particular note is Ben's actor, who despite not being overweight still manages to have the same smile as kid Ben, instantly evoking his look.
18:33 Okay the "eldritch version of Navi" joke got me. Thank you, I needed that laugh.
A master cut of both films set up like the book with both happening simultaneously would be amazing
I was just watching an anime call Oshi No Ko, which has a whole subplot about the trade-off between capturing the author’s real often deeper intent, and ensuring the adaption fits the new medium. It really felt like an unintentional allusion to a King adaption.
I'm here for the subtly-to- wildly out-of-date pop culture references and 90% sure Dom is doing it on purpose
I literally did a double take when he said YOLO. In the most deadpan voice as well.
5:09 “A succulent Chinese meal!”
The reveal that the turtle is dead scared me so bad the first time I read this book.
For Shame! My favorite moment in IT Chapter 2 is that sudden and jaring cut to "Just call Me Angel." My friend and I couldn't stop laughing when it happened. Awesome content as always Dear Narrator!
I didn't even know they used suble deaging on the younger cast to make them match book 1, which I guess is the biggest compliment you could give to the VFX artists.😅
The second makes me wonder tho how the first film could have turned out of they had decided to do the timeline split afterall.
“Subtle” 😂
@@ratwhisperer8667 Yes? Subtle enough that OP didn't notice.
They were right not to do the 'split' device in 1 as there was no guarantee it would be a hit and needed to keep the budget down so casting name adult actors wasn't going to happen. By 2 it was a hit so they could spend the money on the adult actors and VFX's to bring the kid's back.
I remember reading somewhere that some of the scenes were filmed during the first part, but couldn't fit in anywhere in the final cut.
If they had to de-age the kids it would probably be in some minor supplementary scenes.
It pisses me off that they left out the part of the book where Pennywise kills one of the homophobic attackers in Shawshank (redemption) prison to keep him from talking. It was so satisfying to see the gay guy get some justice
Wait, even King's non-horror books are part of his shared universe? I kinda love that.
love when Kings book make nods to eachother.
@@supercjm3306 Shawshank prison is mentioned in all his books even before he wrote redemption. That's why he wrote redemption because it's so important to his universe but we hardly get to read about what it's like in there
@@supercjm3306 Also The show Castle Rock explored the supernatural/ horror side of the prison
@@grkpektis I never thought I would ever say this, but damn, the title of the Shawsank book finally makes sense!
12:41 I also wonder if it’s because they didn’t want it to seem like they were killing off their only Black character, or if they wanted to get their money’s worth out of the actor.
I mean, Mike didn't get killed off in the book or mini series anyway...the attack just push him out of commission. I think they did it because they had given Mike's thing about books, researching and being a history buff to Ben and putting him in the hospital in part 2 would have taken even more away from the character they'd only left racism being his main struggle in part 1? Its the only thing I really have an issue with in part 1 😕
@@gRinchY-op5vr Yeah 😕. I think Ben being into history was fine-it dovetails nicely with his interest in architecture-but maybe they could've maintained Mike's book/miniseries history interest, too, and have them bond over it. Anything to give Mike more to do /and/ more moments between the Losers which, IMO, is why IT is so beloved.
I was kinda of thinking that too. It wouldn't feel right to have the only black guy get benched for the whole movie when they could just... not do that
I think the "you're a clown" thing was less just pointing it out and more; Emphasizing that thats ALL that he is; he is a clown.But hes *only* a clown and thats what made him shrink.
Exactly!
That "succulent Chinese meal" reference caught me off guard. I thought it was just us Aussies who knew about that guy!
I had to immediately pause the video to see if anyone had commented. We our so proud of our national treasure! RIP Jack ❤
I always wonder why Pennywise can't focus. I get that you like playing with your food, mate, makes it taste better or however that goes, but these guys nearly killed you when they were 11. Maybe settle for less pleasant meal for the sake of safety, yeah?
that's why he can't focus my man. this meal nearly killed him. he had them on a plate and was ready to chow down and then they nearly offed him. and now this meal is back bigger and stronger and said meal knows how to beat him. Pennywise has one weapon: fear and the instant they stopped being afraid he's in deep shit. Pennywise is an Opportunist hunter IT goes after children cause they are easy prey for it. The only time he ever on screen goes after an adult it's the nearly dead gay guy. Pennywise's only play from the moment the losers club returned to derry was to convince them to leave.
The book partially goes into detail why Pennywise chooses to go after them. There's a chapter or two from IT's perspective and it talks about how much hate it feels for the losers club for almost killing it. And that knowing they're back, IT wants to get revenge. To IT they're the ultimate prey and if IT is the embodiment of fear, then IT itself can't have a fear. So by killing them, IT proves a point.
Clearly, Pennywise has ADHD
@@KittyOfChess No, it's autism cause he can't eat unless it's _just right_
I mean, if he were REALLY smart he would have just eaten Beverly during the first movie when he kidnapped her. The other kids were going to come try to find her anyway, there was no reason to leave her alive. Also it turned the strongest one of the Losers into a damsel in distress. Easily the worst choice in the first movie.
So Pennywise is a cosmic being who created a mortal avatar to walk among us but takes the form of whatever our minds can comprehend/fear. That seems way easier to understand.
My takeaway was that belief (in what you fear) gives it power, so belief (that you can overcome fear) can take it away. A certain symetry to that. Not going to use the M word.
"Deadlights" are a cosmic... uh... entity, or phenomenon, or alien _universe..._ violently incompatible with human minds. "IT" is a borderline comprehensible aspect of the Deadlights that we tend to perceive as a spider. "Pennywise" is ITS proboscis reaching into our world to feed.
The other way around! Pennywise the Clown is a favorite form of IT; IT is the shapechanging nightmare avatar created by the Spider as an extension of itself small enough to insert into our world like a stinger/proboscis/ovipositor/unpleasant-insectoid-appendage-of-choice; and the Spider in turn is the borderline humanly comprehensible avatar or aspect of the mindcrushingly alien being/phenomenon/world called the Deadlights.
It was honestly you who got me to finally do nebula. I thought I’d easily resist it forever. But alas, Dear Presenter. Your work has offered me a warm shelter from the cold of UA-cam.
King and Junji, at the top of the lost in adaption game of their horror stories.
Tom and Audre showing up in Derry was the universe trying to make up for Stanly and Henry Bowers not being present at the fight with Pennywise the 2nd time. Mike got to be there mentally, but the other two weren't. I think there's some weird language about the two time lines almost converging and appropriate players needing to play parts.
What part did they play ?
See, that was mu problem with these movies fromthe start - as soon as I saw in the first one they were dividing the movies by age group I sat in the theater and thought to myself "But this defuses the entire adult half of the story since we willalready know how to defeat Pennywise..."
That conceit in the book was not just for show - it was really the ony way to keep the tension up for the entire store and removing that interminglingof time lines screws thinsg up.
Personally, I love the book ending more than the movie. However, I am super glad they skip the cheating part. That part truly make me uncomfortable.
Wait how is this 23 hours old, ther video is under a hour old
@@kianbakker3691that’s what I was just wondering lmaoo
@kianbakker3691 the comment was probably made when the video was a Patreon exclusive, before it was released to the public.
The final interlude epilogue has beautiful prose, some of King's finest and most emotional
@@kianbakker3691 I'm not sure actually. I suddenly in the mood to watch Dom video about Stephen King novel, so I just opened the playlist. This video just newly update in the playlist, but it wasn't in video list. I'm not sure why but I just watched it and comment.
I thought the book was more ambiguous about what happened to Maturin. Like I know that It says he died, but he's just in his shell and not coming out. That's how I remember it anyway.
It says only the shell remains but bill senses it’s essence still remains
It'd be something if someone made an edit of both films together with the parallel storylines, but it also sounds like a five year hobbie.
Of course part 1 wasn't filmed like that so it makes it harder to add it retroactively [and it would be nearly 6 hours long] but it would be a challenge.
9:10 would’ve worked if Deadpool never came out, if that song wasn’t used in it, or if a different song entirely was used. The joke of the most disgusting thing imaginable happening to Eddie being portrayed via “pretend this isn’t happening by music” could work it just… had the wrong parts in the wrong places
Did this movie use the song first?
As someone who's read too much King too often, I find his 80s-era takes on cheating interesting. Bill/Bev and the couple in The Mist are at one sympathetic end, where the odds are that they're both going to die before it ever becomes relevant to anyone's relationship (and the wife in the latter has a good chance of already being dead), the ongoing affair that fucks everyone up in Cujo is at the other (though Donna still gets sympathy and motivation) and in the middle there are cases like those in Pet Semetary, where they're character flaws or errors but aren't supposed to really make the cheaters bad people.
I don't have the experience of general fiction of the time to say for sure, but one possibility is that, in an age where ethical non-monogamy wasn't a thing most people hadn't even heard of and even more people than today got married without really understanding their sexual desires, a one-off or so wasn't as huge a deal. Like, yes, bad--Bill and Mist Guy certainly angst about it--but more of a human foible than a relationship deal-breaker or indelible stain on your character.
Anyhow, that was lengthy. I loved the video, and at the moment I can't help but draw parallels between Derry's relationship to IT and our own country's bargain with the unthinkable because people think it'll make them more prosperous. Or, indeed, the many times in the past that we've done the same. Maybe Derry is the US in microcosm.
...is it too early to have a drink?
4:25 The book dropped some lines that Ben grew up to be hot AF. When he was a kid, there's a scene where he smiles and it mentions you could see the handsome man he'd become in the lines on his face. Then Richie notes he could be a model at the reunion. Other little things, like the women in the podunk town he lives in as an adult (and commutes to jobs via private jet) would love to screw him senseless.
The turtle isn't actually dead. It just thought he was which is a better fate than what happened to the cyborg bear
Not calling Angel of the Morning "that song from the Deadpool trailer" 💀
😂😂
It's the title sequence song in the actual film so I'm guessing Dom never watched it!
I borrowed a copy of IT from my library because of this video. I’ve read Stephen King’s bricks before: Four Past Midnight, Tommyknockers, Needful Things, and The Stand. Tried to read 11/22/63 but I couldn’t find the time. Point is I know what to expect and even with that I’ve liked IT. Thanks Dom for getting me to read the book.
Small correction. It was actually Richie and Mike who had the endurance to witness the smoke house vision, not Bill.
I'm not sure children have said yolo in a decade
A decade plus to be honest. I was a 14 in 2014 and it was distinctly uncool.
I could see someone in their late twenties saying it since they were a young adult when it was popping off
I've never heard it cease
I hear it once in a great while. Probably because a lot of content Gen Alpha and younger Zoomers watch is created by Millennials and older Zoomers.
YOLO YMCMB
It's never come out of my kids' mouths (they're 8 & 11) Skibidi toilets, however
"Space-clown from hell"? WRONG! HELL-CLOWN FROM
......SPAAAAAAAAA-EEEEEEECCEEEE!😂
Is that a Killer Klowns from Outer Space reference?!
16:43 Liked the twisted vision Bill has showing what Pennywise did when he initially showed up, turning into various beasts of Native American folklore IE a Wendigo, Thunderbird and a Skinwalker. Kind of scary to imagine the types of monsters he turned into when superstition and fear of the unknown was more prominent
You did a wonderful job explaining the death lights, Dom.
Thank you! I tried really hard XD
@@Dominic-Noble I can only imagine what it would look like to see you explain the lore further if you ever decide to do The Dark Tower!
"A succulent Chinese meal ..."
I don't know why a minor story from Australia, 1991 has suddenly become a meme ... but I am so here for it!
I read once that the Muschiettis were thinking about doing a 5-hour supercut of the movie more in line with the book; I keep holding out hope for it to be real
I think that's what is now going to be Welcome to Derry, the series coming to HBOMax in 2025.
@@ellagoreyshorrorstories7524welcome to Derry is the 1962 cycle of violence before the first movie that takes place in 1989 but I hope they’ll include ideas from the book like kids getting got by universal monsters like Frankenstein and the Creature from the Black Lagoon since it’s closer to that era
The film did great with the Dead Lights. In both this and the book version, if you even try to explain their existence, it feels like you are dwelling into chaos theory. That's a definition of the eldritch; so sinister and ghostly, with a caliber way beyond the human mind.
Eldritch horror is extremely difficult to put into film and actually be scary; you need the time to think about it and can't be compressed on a simple jumpscare. This is one of the reasons we will likely never get a Cthulhu movie that will do Lovecraft's writing any from of justice.
Only problem is they were blue
Its cosmic horror the fact you cant comprehend what the dead lights are is the point i would say
Eh, I never interpreted it as IT actually being female, just another case of that being the concept closest to IT's true nature that we can comprehend
listening to this made me realize that Stephen King is kind of an alternate universe Terry Pratchett. Books that don't translate well to movies, terrible track record with adaptations, writing that works because of the way it makes you feel, not the actual description, complicated universes set up across books. also giant turtles heavily involved in their creation myths
I preferred the 1997 version 2-part miniseries of The Shining as it was word for word scene by scene to the book. But Kubrick's is a classic.
This movie is weird. Where I think the first one had a much firmer grasp of its tone, this one can’t decide if it’s wacky and goofy or serious or if it’s trying to do The Godfather Part II and it’s almost three hours long for some reason.
Not to mention the jumpscares became very predictable (not that I like them anyways. Jumpscare ≠ Horror.
In fairness the book is 1000+ pages long so I can see the films were fairly long!
I think one of the biggest problems I had with IT Chapter 2 was the overabundance of goofy jumpscares. I like new part 1 better than miniseries part 1, but I like miniseries part 2 better than new part 2.
my theory for the "it's female" thing is that it's not actually a woman, but it wants the characters to believe it can reproduce so it can use that power to make itself able to, therefore continuing after death,
I feel like It's actually reproducing, or trying to--one of the POV bits mentions the adult Losers "crushing the life out of Its spawn"--but gender doesn't actually come into the process, it's just that 1984 Humans equate "lays eggs" with "female."
Stephen King adaptations have been done right. It's called "Shawshank Redemption" and "The Green Mile".
Stand By Me, 1408
Dolores Claiborne, Misery
Maybe even The Dark Half & Secret Window
@Hellblazer1138Audio Yes Yes Yes!
But these notably aren't about "fear" and "suspense". That is what directors fail to capture.
Plus The Mist and Doctor Sleep
Darabont and Flanagan for the win!
Crimson King mentioned, so long days and pleasant nights in advance to all of The Dark Tower fans running to the comments like I did just now.
The book does indeed suggest that Ben grew up hot. He started running and eating salads - lost the weight. The barman he speaks to remarks to himself that many of the women in the town he was in would have given a lot to go to bed with Ben.
Kids don't say YOLO anymore. That's an old person's word
Spider-clown, spider-clown, does whatever a spider-clown does…
IT is the reason I will never never try cocaine.
Nah if you want even more bonkers King on coke, just watch “Maximum Overdrive” 😂
A very deep and thoughtful video on the nature of King's work and how it goes into adaptations.
To me Chapter 2 would've been better if...
1) No flashbacks with sidequest for the ritual (which turns out to be pointless anyway so it feels like a waste of time)
2) Change that Henry Bowers died in Part 1 falling down the well, replace him with Tom.
3) They kind of introduce the turtle as some kind of Big Good figure but make it work so that an audience can buy into it
4) Less jumpscares, and utilize Adrian's lover and some other people who are sort of neo-Losers who help out the protagonists
5) Going kind of back with the turtle, they should've focused more on the Cosmic Horror Story side of Pennywise/IT, make the film dreadful and tense by writing and executing well the crushing sensations these reveals have on the characters. If it's not scary, at least make it engaging and interesting. The poor actors had to carry the whole film on themselves, they needed better material.
Also, no epilepsy-inducing final battles!
Also, no Spider-clown! Just make it a giant spider.
I always thought the scene where young Bill confronts Pennywise by the storm grate was so well done, not in the book but shows how much the movie's creators understood the source material and Bill/Pennywise's book characters and motivations
Honestly whenever I try to picture the book version of the final battle in my head I always get this spacey background in my head with IT More or less just being some old JRPG endboss from this SNES era. I mean there's already enough parts of the plot surprisingly in line with Earthbound.
Stanley's death through fear of what will happen, is distressing of course, but I think that it's pretty powerful as it originally was. Stanley as a now reasonably well adjusted adult, fearing the situation so intensely that he mentally broke extremely quickly acts as a reminder that none of us is all that tough.