Wow this is really eye opener video. Thanks for getting all details and even with more generosity towards petrol cars, the Electric still beats the hell out of running costs. My advice to guys who are trying to buy bigger battery is simple - Don't waste your money yet !! There is a battery charging system coming soon, which will charge your existing battery on the go and hence extend the range by another 100-200 kms depending upon your car or the system that you will choose. Also there is another Super Rapid charger in development, which will charge your existing Battery in 10mins. (Minutes). So keep looking and KEEP ASKING your car dealers to push hard for those new gadgets which will enable you to drive more kms and if required then charge your car at a Petrol station kind of charging station in 10mins.
In the US market, the used market is far and away the cheapest way to buy an electric car. You can get a decent, used 2013 or 2014 Leaf with a quick charger for around $8,000 in the US.
Michael Guss I know! My driving cycle favors the Volt. I've got two of them, one for me and one for my lady. Both 2013 units together cost much less than a new one.
Yep. That's why I leased my eGolf. I knew that I would lose a ton of money if I bought one. Anyone with any vision would understand that battery ranges are going to become far greater than they are currently (no pun intended). Why buy a car that will be out of date in three years time? I imagine most of the cheap used electric vehicles are ex-lease. Great deal.
Great info. I bought a 2006 Smart diesel last summer to drive to work 50 kms round trip. It costs about $16.50 a week to fuel up. Not bad but looking at the Smart electric or BMW I3 as my next car. Definitely the way of the future in transportation.
i bought a 2 year old leaf Acenta 6 months ago , I think the deposit was about £2000 and I pay £128 . I went onto car wings today to see how much electric consumption I had used. It equated to £84 worth of electric assuming I paid for all of the electric used for the whole period My old Diesel car used to consume about £125 of diesel a month. this is our only car...it suits us
You also have to calculate the battery replacement or vehicle replacement costs, because if you drive / charge more the battery will lose its capacity quicker. The battery replacement might be more expensive that the actual value of the vehicle after 8 to 10 years. So, you're back buying a car again, so you're not really gaining anything.
Thanks for the info. I just bought a 2017 Volt (Premier) for $24,500 after Federal and State tax credits. That's about $10,000 less than the average new car cost in the USA. My electricity cost is $30 per month for the car and I'm saving about $170 per month in gas costs. I get 55 miles per charge and average about 35 miles a day for driving. No need for a charging station due to my short commute and back-up gas generator (which I have yet to use). It takes about 8 hours (110 volt / Level 1 charging) to replenish the 35 miles of the used EV driving range back into the battery each day.
Great video. I am considering changing from my Hybrid to all Electric, and have been watching many videos on line and visiting dealerships. Your twice mentioned comment that you at the minute wouldn't have an electric only car as sole car has now worried me! I live in Norfolk country area, and do approx 17000 miles per annum, with a regular 100 mile round trip approx 2-3 times per week. I thought an electric car would do the job, but your remark has seriously made me doubt this!
It would do the job but If I do a longer journey for work the missus (who works after I get home) might not have enough for her to get to her work. It's a rare event but can happen and I couldn't take that chance. 150mile realistic winter range would solve that though. At the mo that's only the Zoe 40 or the BMW i3 Rex.
I have evaluated Tesla, Nissan and BMW. Only the Tesla has the pedigree, the technology and the infrastructure required. This will be my first brand new car - Tesla Model 3. Roll on 2020.
thanks for doing this research, appreciated. my situation would suit an ev, but unfortunately I live in a terraced street. Hopefully one day there will be a solution to this problem.
We got rid of our Vauxhall spontaneous-com busting MPV... sorry, I mean Zafira, earlier this year. Fuel costs were upwards of £170 / month as 1.9CDTi was only efficient for longer journeys. Aside from the major recall (well, actually two recalls) knocking my confidence in the vehicle, it was also reaching an age where parts were beginning to fail on a regular basis (automatic box looked like it might be on way out, doors no longer locked or stayed locked), and it went through tyres and brakes like butter. Bought a 14 plate Acenta from main dealer and paying £155/month and currently paying £20 on electricity. We also have the advantage here that ChargePlace Scotland encourages free rapid and fast chargers (in fact aside from a few Ecotricity rapids, only a couple of councils charge and it is fair amounts) so I'm hoping with destination charging at work to get this below £15/month. It's our only car, but still wouldn't look back - just waiting for a 40kWh or greater battery by the time we're looking to replace it in three years...
Great video and very informative. For me the Nissan leaf is my only car. in six months I've not found any restraints warranting a second ICE car. I cannot say I do little millage either. so far I've done 10k EV miles.
I have purchased a 2013 SV with 11,500 for $7,900 (US dollars) that was three months ago. It is a second car to a 2014 Ford focus SE. I love this car so far, the only problem with driving a shorter range EV in the states is we tend to drive further. I pulled the carfax on mine before I purchased, because I had a few to choose from and found that it had the battery replaced at 11k, so with a new battery (30kwh lizard) it was a no brainer!
This is a great little overview and comparison, however, it doesn't cover the average yearly costs of servicing, consumables, running and maintenance costs, namely the differences with internal combustion versus electric, i.e. oils, fluids, greases, bearings, belts, brake wear and the like, depending on the type of car, this can be thousands of dollars a year.
I'm helping my brother get his first 2013 Nissan leaf SL right now. I currently own a 2013 Nissan Leaf SL, and I love it. Bought it almost new and regret paying 24k USD for it. My brother on the other hand will buy his for ~10K USD. I'm jealous about his price tbh. Carpool access is very ideal for high traffic lanes such as California, Los Angeles.
really interesting....... electric cars will make it but the fact the range is a lil low and the 1 hour charging puts me off at the min far more than the price! If we had 2 cars I would follow you in having a engine car and an electric car. Really great videos please keep them up :)
Excellent Presentation, but you missed one important comparison and that is service costs. My last car was a skoda City Go, I didn't keep it long, as I didn't like the driving experience, so never had a full service, but it would have been over £200 a year I believe. Second point, you were too generous with the MPG figures, Skoda claimed 60+mpg on urban cycle, the best I could ever get was 45MPG (I keep a computer log of MPG on each fill up) and that is on a 1 litre engine.
Railwayman John well i get over 50mpg with short and long journeys combined on my 2.0l tdi vw scirocco. Small engined cars are the worst for not being anywhere near the mpg stated as you need to put your foot down to get it to go anyehere.
Craig Glass No car is anywhere near its claimed MPG. I owned a Mazda 3 diesel it claimed 70 MPG. I never reset the trip computer I was getting 44 MPG I always stick to speed limits.
Interesting video. Just to pick up on the Ecotricity fast chargers, they are still free for Ecotricity customers! Ecotricity also have an EV electric tariff and you get up to 52 rapid charges per year. As you said, most people don't tend to use the rapid chargers unless they are doing a long trip.
Great video. My 2014 Zoe was five and half grand with 80 pounds a month battery lease. Longest trip 220 miles, used free ecotricity rapid chargers so cost to me was £1.40.
I just recently picked up a brand new BMW i3 REX 94Ah for £259 per month with £780 deposit. This was a 2 year personel lease at 8k per year, not sure if you can still get them this cheap as I ordered mine in late August and it only arrived end of November.
What I mean is it limited to Chademo and 3-pin homeplug? Because I thought of buying used Leaf, but there are no Chademo nearby. There is one in Folkestone, but it is at the Tunnel Shuttle Terminal, so you need to book trip to France to access one - not the cheapest way to charge :) And there is one point in Sandwich, but I can't even think of why would I go there. All the other stations in nearby towns only have Type2 chargers. I wouldn't be able to use one of those I believe, right?
All leafs have chadmo and type2 chargers (mennekes). The only option on the car was if it is 3.3kw or 6.6kw. That only affects the speed. The leaf is by far the most compatible when it comes to EV's. Remember though that 90% plus charging is done at home. This might help: ua-cam.com/video/iETWIeNsWi8/v-deo.html
Well, that's my issue. I live in large block of flats. And while you do get a space, it is not fixed. So one day you might have a space next to your block and run extension out of the window (I live on the second floor, so no structural problem there) and another day you end up with a space on the other end of the building. In these conditions, I doubt that the board would let anyone to assign dedicated charging bays. The question about Mennekes though is because there're plenty of them in destinations I might go to, like Broadstairs (Westwood Cross shopping centr) or Ashford, or Canterbury. But if you can use Mennekes for charging Leaf, then it is great - I'm one step closer to having my first EV
Actually although you can buy a similar petrol car for the same cost its still cheaper even if its the same price and here is why... EVs demand will grow and that will help with the depreciation and the return will be better when it is sold in the future. Also your putting money into a nicer car that costs more yes, however that is offset with running cost. For me with oil prices expecting to rise and the demand is increasing I would say that 2018 is the turning point for EVs... So much so i sold my Porsche Boxster 3.4S for a Leaf... And quite proud that i switched, I cant wait to collect my Leaf on the 1st of June.
The Leaf and Zoe have been out long enough that there are now quite a few that have come to the end of their lease/PCP deals and are now available for people to buy on the 2nd hand market. It will be interesting to see what happens over the next few years as the used market increases, and people who wouldn't do a lease or PCP can afford to buy a used car. When there are enough cars that have been out there long enough, we might eventually be able to answer the question about the service life of the battery and replacement cost, or hopefully, we will still be able to say "don't know, they haven't been around long enough yet"
Depends what car you were comparing it against. If it was a 5 year old fiesta vs a brand new LEAF (bigger car) then it's not a valid comparison. Directline are cheapest for me at the mo plus quidco cashback.
£248pm on my leaf and that is for 14,000 miles, I get free charging at work each day, I estimate I pay £100pm max for a brand new car as the saving on fuel is fantastic.
I'm in the US, and my wife and I own a 2014 40 mpg gas car and a 2013 LEAF. I paid $16,000 new for the gas car and $9,000 for the used LEAF, so hard to do a straight comparison. I'm sure the LEAF is cheaper though since we bought it at such a low price ($150 payments, $2000 down)
another point worth mentioning is that if you are an ecotricity customer for your gas and electricity at your home, rapid charging is FREE on motorways etc. and you also get £40 off your bills for having a ev.
It's not free though considering for most people Ecotricity are £400-£500+ more expensive than other green providers per year. Plus they limit it to 52 charges a year (1 per week).
for me its £700 more for Ecotricity, that makes the 52 so called free charges actually £14 each. Lol that makes a mockery of the term free. Im glad they recently got outed by the Advertising standards agency for misleading people.
These numbers are, of course, UK specific. The UK is really good for electric cars because it's a reasonably small country, there's so much tax on petrol, and we have low cost night-time electricity available.
Great video I bought Nissan Leaf 1.5 year old 8000 miles for £11000 by selling for £2500 my Lexus. I need £8500 loan for 3years £250/months + £25/months electric cost 700-750 miles/months. After three years I own the car and I will pay only £25 running cost great deal :) Before £100-125/months Diesel £18/months road tax and expensive maintenance
What is the "electric equivalent" to miles/gallon. How does one calculate how many watts are used to run an electric vehicle. Have a research study to do and I am completely clueless about cars/ electricity etc.
Electric Leaf Man thanks for the quick response. Do you own an EV? If so will you be willing to answer a few questions. I need a primary source, not very easy to come by. Thanks again!
Electric Leaf Man shame Tesla have removed all the good stuff Elon promised would be included as standard. Oh sorry he didn't promise, he chose words that sounded like it had everything when it actually doesn't.
Electric Leaf Man so where's the case for EV in 2017? I'm genuinely in the market to replace my leaf Tekna (costing £227) and my Volt (costing £300) with viable and modern equivalents and there is nothing. I'd replace the leaf with the ioniq at £227 but no way at £350. The 30kwh leaf just isn't new after having one already for two years, the extra range isn't enough to change my life and justify an extra cost. The soul is a pat van lol. There's just nothing desireable out for realistic money
Electric Leaf Man I think behind the scenes Tesla is struggling to get Model 3 together. They promised over 200 miles range and yet they have now said it won't have a 60kwh battery as standard so won't have a proper 200 mile range. Elon made it sound like it would have full autopilot but it's now an option. Free supercharging is now a thing of the past. £ is on its arse so what's next? Is the price going to be £35k? That's far too much and will result in PCP deals around £500-600 per month. I don't believe people will pay that. Turning those pre orders into confirmed sales may not be as easy as they think. The Model 3 could be the end of Tesla. It makes me wonder if other manufacturers are holding off to see if it takes them down. If it does then they can pack up their EV toys and claim there's insufficient demand. Who could argue? You can lease the BMW M140i 340bhp for only £279 per month at the moment, that takes some beating for the money.
Here you go. ultimatevehicleleasing.co.uk/show/vehicle-details/5509-mercedes-benz/72213-b250-e-electric-art-premium-5dr-auto?term=24&annual_mileage=10000&initial_rental=9&type=CAR
I almost bought the Mercedes but then I talked to someone who had bought one, they couldn't get it above 110-130km pr charge, even tough with the "range extend" charge button, it should be possible to go up to 230km. Mercedes then got it and tried to drive it themself, and they couldn't get it above 130 either no matter how hard they tried. I have tried to find any others with experience with this car but that is hard since there so few of the driving around, I have been unable to find any direct source except from one review that also supported the 100-120km range(but I got the a suspicion when reading it that they didn't use re-gen braking right). If it had a battery upgrade and fast charge possibility, it would be cool.
That was useful. I have one query though. You did not compare for you use case. From 20K PA. We have been looking at ALL the various cars but the 20K Miles we do makes a PCP really expensive. Thank you have great Christmas & New Year
Good comparison, guess the cost ratio between fossil and electric cars are similar in many countries. In Sweden you also can factor in road taxes which is none for the first five years, then it´s 360 SEK per year. A 15 year old BMW 320i is 2570 SEK per year or 12850 SEK for five years. Exchange rate is about 12:50 SEK for £1, so it´s about £1000 less in tax for the first five years.
ferkemall I do own the battery and have one month left on the capacity warranty and till 2020 on the 8 year 100k mile functional warranty.. I think that's a good thing. it gets me to work and back twice on one charge no problem so I'm good there :)
no problem! Yeah, check out my review i made on my channel, you can see some of the pitfalls. Especially public charging. As for the battery replacement cost, 6500$ minus 1000$ trade in. i say the bggest pitfall is public charging. people are not considerate of others way too often either leaving their EVs plugged in for longer than needed or gas cars parked in the EV places... yeah..
Comparing electric vehicle cost to vehicles with 40, 50 and 60 mpg fuel efficiency is unrealistic since few even fuel efficient cars really get that kind of actual fuel efficiency. You should include 25 - 35 mpg which is more realistic.
Should have included how much it cost to buy upfront, the only other issue is the that you have to wait to recharge the car which can take several hours, whereas refilling a petrol is several minutes. not only that, fast charging damages the batteries so that will wear the batteries down faster with will be a very costly repair bill to replace the batteries, replacing a battery is meant to be about the £5K plus area if it goes wrong and you own the battery.
Just took delivery of my leaf Accenta 4th July . Had a xc90 34mpg . Did a pro n con on costs the leaf came out top by £21 a month on pcp . So I now drive a new car cheaper than a 2004 xc90 diesel.
Can I ask a question? Did my channel in any way help/persuade you to get a Leaf? If so then there's a new Leaf Ambassador scheme just started that I've now joined. Yours might be too late but basically it means I would get £200 and you would get £100. I'll be doing a vid soon about it to try and actually get something back from the channel after nearly 2 years. I believe the date you picked up, Reg No. and date ordered are all that's needed. You can DM me of course to carry this on. Cheers!
Hi yes , your videos and blogs helped me make a decision. Like you it was a purely financial decision. I've only used the car twice before coming on holiday to Bulgaria so one of my questions Will be answered on Thursday will be how much power have I lost leaving it parked up for two weeks. As for the ambassador thing no problem I'm from Sheffield so a Yorkshire man so it appeals to me. How do we swop details?
Was going to buy an i3 until i saw the price of them. Tax exempt v8 is way more fun,will continue with current car until electric cars become a reasonable price both new and 2nd hand.
Great video,but you forgot calculate the mantenence of the EV & combustion cars for that 20k a year,I think you will have a big + £ on the conbustion ones,what you think......
Additional saving from next April will be £140 a year for road fund licence. EVs will still be zero but all ICEs even those under 100gm Co2 will be £140
In all of Ireland north and south the electric still free at 99.9% of points, my Renault 43kw 22w 50 quid lease for 7500 battery for four years, made no sense to buy as 1800 Quid toward lease , so really battery 600 quid lease for four years , so bought car on pcp will have 2000 to pay at end if keep and have option to change battery to 40 kw from latest in , obviously will be cost approx 2500/3500 + , 2 years in have saved in excess of 1500 as mostly free, and only done 13500 miles. Did get best deal on battery in Nov/Dec 2014 reduced for short time, normally 70 quid, spent more on sweets, coffee, washer fluid and car wash by miles, when charges come in will charge mainly at home, solar will subsidise this partially. Like uk mainland far more leafs by far but problem is they block many of the chargers for hours on end due to old charge system , dc fast charging only on major roads, 22kw in most other places , my last 2 litre diesel i managed 42 real dirty miles. 40 kw battery is a game changer in my opinion
TL;DR; Electric: 1400 euro all-in for 24k km. Petrol: 2442 euro for 14k km. I've just made up the bill after one year of driving electric. I bought a 2nd hand Mitsubishi i-MiEV (2010) for 10k euro and have driven it for over 24k km the last year. - 3300kWh to travel that distance - 347,25 euro for ~930kWh on public charging and 19,82 euro on fast charging at Fastned. - 2300kWh home charging for 437 euro. - 150 euro for 2 new front tires after 1 of them was worn down badly from being soft. - 40 Euro bi-yearly mandatory check Meanwhile our Suzuki Swift (2008) drove about 14k km and cost us 2440 euro including a 362 euro large service interval. If I had driven the same distance (24k km) with the Suzuki Swift or the old Peugeot 206 diesel I would have been out of quite a bit more money, 2900 and 3200 respectively. Without maintenance. I wrote a tool of my own to help me with calculating the costs, you can find here. iserv.nl/files/pics/imiev/cost.php/
interesting. Admittedly paid a lot less for my sell off mk1 Leaf. Done the maths for a full decade of ownership which includes everything, including replacing the kitchen sink. £320/month. However to me it will never reach zero. I want the battery pack for the house supply. I was going to lease a middle market Tesla but cannot justify spending £30k in three years.
That's a really good overview, when batteries become a lot better and the infra structure is better they'll be awesome but at the moment I agree that the range is bad, only on the Teslas they're good but "rapid" charging is still not rapid at all, 40 minutes for an 80% charge isn't rapid =P Batteries need to be made from abundant materials too not Lithium or Cobalt because those are very limited. Hydrogen Fuel Cells are great when everything is done right from renewable energy. I know they're not as efficient as battery electric but they fill up the same speed as a petrol car and that's something I want, not basing my life around a 40 minute charger to have bugger all range too. Both need much more support with infra structure, especially in the UK, it's still lagging big time and I'd be willing to bet that the shitty brexit thing isn't helping things at all, just dragging everything out.
Take time out of the calculation. Just use mileage. Compute cost/mile and then apply it to the life of the car since cars tend to wear out after a given amount of use (mileage) not time. Then, compare the lifetime fueling costs to the purchase price (or total lease cost).
I would love an electric car for the fuel savings. Problem is I own my car outright so the monthly cost is £0 a month so will have to wait till I'm replacing it :-(
Excellent balanced explanation of the costs of owning an electric car. We currently have a leaf and an oil burner. Soon as the range is 200 miles plus the oil burner will be dumped. Electric is the future. Recent excellent fully charged show where the prediction is 100% of car production will be electric by 2030. Found this Leaf offer. www.nissanretail.co.uk/new-nissan-cars/electric-vehicles/nissan-leaf/acenta/none-flex/
A petrol or diesel from cold will not instantly to 40/50/60MPG. So if you, for example, do lot's of short/town driving the car will not be as economical... Electric will be even cheaper :)
Unfortunately, neither Kia, Renault, nor Mercedes Benz, or Nissan list any of their EVs on the Motability Scheme, (a 3-year lease) and the Hyundai Ioniq is only available as a hybrid, not the EV version. So it's petrol for me - again.
For your calculations you assume people in UK do average of 12000 miles a year per car but this is miles out :-) see www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/nts09-vehicle-mileage-and-occupancy . Average Joe does probably 8-9000 per year and dropping slowly every year (BBC said 7900 per year in news report in 2014). Of course, if people do the calculations you suggest then it doesn't matter as they can see for themselves and make an informed decision.
I should have said we lease an i3 94Ah REX and it's superb! I think the ownership model is dead personally and have no interest in owning a car with so much technology (much like phones on a contract)!
I've been doing some research on prices recently as I need rid of my leaf and Volt in the next few months. The prices of EV have gone up and tbh there is only one desirable car (i3 Rex), however even these are £100 per month more now on lease than last year. Once EV hits £300 per month the numbers fall apart as the car your getting is not competitive with other cars of the same price, savings also start to go out of the window. My old leaf Tekna was £1000 deposit and £227 per month, I consider that a great deal and what it's worth. Not a penny more. Now they are more expensive for the same old car. Zoe is a waste of time as it's got feminine styling and I'm a man. ioniq is £100 too expensive per month for an electric Prius. The argument is falling apart now you also have to factor in expensive rapid charging or limit the car.
Electric Leaf Man a slightly bigger battery doesn't get around the fact they and the Zoe are still old designs. Leaf and Zoe were outdated when they were released. The Zoe doesn't even rapid charge anymore. New 94ah I3 Rex works exceptionally well but BMW are clearly trying to price it so that people don't order it. It's increased in price from £225 last year to over £300 this year. On no planet is a Zoe worth £300 per month. Same with the Ioniq at £350. That's crazy. A BMW M140i 340bhp can be leased for £279 per month. TBH at least it's worth putting the petrol in it lol.
I agree to a point. The early adopter deals aren't around anymore so as things are more mainstream they'll be less silly offers. They are around though if you look hard enough.
Electric Leaf Man I am looking. Spent far too much time turning over stones and getting nowhere. The cars are being priced far too high for what they are. Leaf 30kwh Tekna 6.6 £1500 deposit, £320per month. Too expensive by £90 per month. Ioniq premium SE £1500 deposit £360 per month. Too expensive by £130 per month for what it is. Zoe 40KWh battery and some spec, £1500 deposit £300 per month, too expensive by £100. Girls car and outdated. Also slow even compared to a leaf. I3 Rex 94AH £1500 deposit £340 per month with some essential options. £60 too expensive but phenomenal car that works very well. Can also avoid the highway man. E golf, still around £370 per month, good car but outdated and range only 100 miles max. Far too expensive. TDI is £200 per month for same car and less compromises. Bclass EV £350 per month, too expensive for a £200 per month car with no rapid charging. It's still a b class with limited appeal. Twizy, damn battery lease kills this as a bit of fun. So what's left? Where's the compelling electric cars promised back in 2015 to be coming in 2017? No Bolt, Model 3 won't be in anyone's hands really until end of 2018 if ever. The game has changed now, Ecotricity changed it. Feels like the only way forward is to go back to ice. Painful thought after being on the EV train for as long as I have been but the ice equivalents have got much better recently and the lease deals have never been better. Up to £220 per month you will sacrifice your dignity and image for cheap and cheerful motoring. Over £300 it's a different story, I want it all for that price. I shouldn't be paying £300+ per month to drive an eco car I don't want to be seen in.
We should meet up and have a bar chat for your blog. I will play devils advocate as a distressed EV owner whose sick of the false promises from manufacturers and fake news of new models from bloggers. In the last 2 years nothing has changed. Things have only got worse in EV. I will throw in a ride in my Tesla Roadster Sport
I almost envy you Brits, USA just doesn't have the infrastructure for electric vehicles. There are only 2 even close to me, we're talking 20 minutes for the nearest and at least 30 for the other. When you throw in traffic and mileage, it's not worth it here. In California I understand there are many charging stations, so out there I might would go for it. Here in middle Tennessee no way. I like your break down though ELM, it lays it all out. When you add in the cost of service every 3 months or 3000 miles + gas + purchase ICE are really expensive to own.
I bought a 400 pound diesel with a yearly fuel bill off 980 a year if I buy a second hand leaf lowest price 6000 for the car so fuel bill alone will take 6 years to pay itself off then the battery after 7 years needs to be replaced if battery isn't leased so cost of an electric car for me car on finance 200 a month then battery lease then higher insurance premium exceeds my cost for the diesel so an electric car doesn't make sense and I work on my own car which I couldn't do on a electric car so repair on my diesel is cheaper to
The battery is warranted for 8 years for one so that’s bollocks. You’ve also not figured out that you’re comparing a really old £500 car with a 5-6 year old Leaf. Finally, do you believe that a £500 car will have no repair bills? Dear me!
@@ElectricVehicleMan actually point I'm making if you read properly is spending all that money to go electric isn't as cheap as people think for example a fiesta and a zoe same sized car zoe over a year is 1000 more to run so over a 3 year period isn't so cheap after all and no I've not had one repair bill in the 3 years I've had it just servicing and maintenance so don't dare try and play the big dick fella this is why people are put off ev because of self righteous pricks
You’re comparing a £500 car with a £6000 car and then saying it’s £1000 cheaper to run. Nothing to do with my large penis, it’s called common sense. So in 3 years youve spent money on oil changes or all the other stuff you don’t need to do with an EV, again making it cheaper. Now let me finish this lesson in maths by reminding you that after 3 years the much newer EV will still be worth about £3000 as opposed to the likely worthless banger by then being worth £0. Meaning it’s actually £2000 cheaper, not £1000 dearer. Total cost of ownership is all that ultimately matters when calculating running costs! Then I’ll try not to point out that this video is from 2016 and kinda less relevant to today’s situation.
Björn Felten The UK uses a mixed system for roads etc it's still all Imperial everything else is pretty much metric although dimensions are generally given in both metric and imperial
Tobias, the US uses the imperial gallon which came from Britain. They now use the metric litre, which I usually convert to gallons for my American friends who don't google. The Brits therefor use kilometers per litre which is very different from MPG.
Well, I know am. cars are not efficient but what sometimes is forgotten, is that there's almost 1 liter difference between an am. gallon and a british one. Also the efficiency is still meassured in MPG. the same car has on the british website almost the dopple performance compared to the same car on the american one. Mainly because of different testing standards, but not only. Out of curiosity I compared the VW Passat S between vw.uk and vw.com Uk: 70.6 MPG, US: 27MPG!!! both combined
Wow. I was about to go all batshit on you so I checked. I am sorry I was wrong. us gal is 3.7 litres while the imperial gallon is 4.2l. I am shocked. I wonder what other crap I've been spouting from a misremembered high school science class? I posted something about a Toyota minivan in Japan that was getting 60 or 70 miles to a litre, maybe that was all off too- the Japanese public were all pissed off 'cause it was too LOW!!! lol
Some cars are dirt cheap to lease. If you are doing a true comparison you should use retail prices. Electric car leases are artificially low because of the tax brake the leasing agent gets. Take the tax brake out add depreciation and unless you get a Tesla at this point Electric cars are far more expensive than gas cars. That is changing. Buy your analogy my 2001 17 mpg Jeep cost less to own than your leaf.
$255 a month including 3 oil changes per 20,000 miles. The Jeep has long been paid for and is completely reliable at 300,000 miles with the original trans and engine. I am using 17 mpg. To get up to 20k per yer My mileage would be more like 19 mpg. At 10,000 miles a year the jeep would be far more economical. I do not think your battery would make it to 300,000 miles. My 2000 Celica averaged 32 mpg over its 300,000 mile 14 year life. Even adding in the 17k I paid for the car $500 a year for repairs it still hits $272 per month. Trust me there were many years when I did not spend $500 on repairs. In fact most years oil changes 2 times a year for $120. Never needed an engine, transmission or exhaust. I did put in a new clutch in at 200,000 miles. I understand that gas is far more expensive in Europe but so is electric. Tiers brake fluid wiper blades are all things you have to service on an electric car also. I am in. I have an order on a Tesla 3. I can only hope that I get any were near the performance I have received from my ICE cars. My number one reason for going for the 3 was safety and performance vs cost.
I spend £210 (no initial deposit) a month on the car and all fuel and repairs (none). That's £2520 a year. If I had your MPG in an ICE even doing 25MPG it would cost me £4142 a year in fuel alone! That's my point, do enough miles and it's cheaper than even a free ICE car. To get 100% charging at home it costs me £1.35.
speakev.com/threads/leaf-acenta-30kwh-from-just-245-per-month-0-zero-deposit.20656/ - Not sure if still on though. Quote I got isn't from this but close enough.
The issue I see with electric vehicles is there long term second hand value when batteries need replacing it will be more then the car is worth. For people like me that buy older second hand cars electric doesn't look value for money
You get an 8 year batt warranty on the 30 Leaf and you only need to replaced the failed cells not the whole battery so I fail to see the issue? Don't believe the £5000 for a new battery myth. For one there are many batteries, not one big one.
There are electric cars which have done in excess of 100,000 miles with no noticeable battery degradation. The maintenance on the car by 100,000 miles would be significantly less than a petrol or diesel equivalent so even supposing that battery cells did need replaced, the overall maintenance costs over the ownership term would be lower in the electric car I would speculate.
I have also seen videos of slow degradation over high miles, but have also seen half capacity after 50,000 miles, temperature has a big effect on the performance of a battery. There is a big market for ICE cars 10 years and older mines 13 years old. But who going to buy a 10 year old electric car that might need a new battery costing many thousands. P.S. I want an electric car but only when it's more cost effective that ICE cars
All i do is drive to work and to friends. All i need is max 20kwh battery or even less combined with efficent drivetrain. I would never get bigger battery because cost duh! and even more important, because when it dies replacement price wont require selling a kidney...Lets face it if i need to go longer i take the bus..and that happens ..well almost never.
The merc's a joke, better off buying a bike, if had no wheels couldn't be any worse, name only , mercs behind the times,old tesla gear installed with ridiculously slow charging , give you time whilst charging to cry your head off. Don't even think of buying the merc
Typical of electric car drivers, you've forgotten about maintenance costs! Just because your EV doesn't need oil changes, belts, hoses, radiator fluid, etc., doesn't mean they shouldn't be counted.
Rob: It was sarcasm. The point is that EV maintenance costs are close to zero, but ICE vehicles need lots of maintenance. By the way, Tesla's don't use brake fluid.
They use electromechanical brakes. www.quora.com/How-do-Teslas-friction-brakes-work Sure, all cars could use them, but all cars could also use batteries for power too. They choose not to because they can make more money off of you on service. That's not Tesla's goal, so they use better equipment.
I think EVs are ridiculously overpriced even on the used market compared to automatic ICE cars As I'm looking for a cheap first car, an EV isn't up to the task at all for me.
Wow this is really eye opener video. Thanks for getting all details and even with more generosity towards petrol cars, the Electric still beats the hell out of running costs. My advice to guys who are trying to buy bigger battery is simple - Don't waste your money yet !! There is a battery charging system coming soon, which will charge your existing battery on the go and hence extend the range by another 100-200 kms depending upon your car or the system that you will choose. Also there is another Super Rapid charger in development, which will charge your existing Battery in 10mins. (Minutes). So keep looking and KEEP ASKING your car dealers to push hard for those new gadgets which will enable you to drive more kms and if required then charge your car at a Petrol station kind of charging station in 10mins.
You're right I absolutely love my Kia Soul EV. One great thing about it is that it comes fully equipped as standard.
In the US market, the used market is far and away the cheapest way to buy an electric car. You can get a decent, used 2013 or 2014 Leaf with a quick charger for around $8,000 in the US.
You can even get 2015 Leafs as low as 8 grand. But those are S models most without the charge pack.
I just bought a 13 Leaf with the Quick Charger and a 6.6. KWh charger for less than $8k.
Michael Guss I know! My driving cycle favors the Volt. I've got two of them, one for me and one for my lady. Both 2013 units together cost much less than a new one.
Yep. That's why I leased my eGolf. I knew that I would lose a ton of money if I bought one. Anyone with any vision would understand that battery ranges are going to become far greater than they are currently (no pun intended). Why buy a car that will be out of date in three years time?
I imagine most of the cheap used electric vehicles are ex-lease. Great deal.
You can by a 2015 I3 with 10,000 miles on it under BMW bumper to bumper warranty for 16k.
Great info. I bought a 2006 Smart diesel last summer to drive to work 50 kms round trip. It costs about $16.50 a week to fuel up. Not bad but looking at the Smart electric or BMW I3 as my next car. Definitely the way of the future in transportation.
i bought a 2 year old leaf Acenta 6 months ago , I think the deposit was about £2000 and I pay £128 .
I went onto car wings today to see how much electric consumption I had used. It equated to £84 worth of electric assuming I paid for all of the electric used for the whole period
My old Diesel car used to consume about £125 of diesel a month.
this is our only car...it suits us
I had an old 1977 300d, Mercedes...which I ran on old fryer oil, it actually saved me around 10k in fuel...
You also have to calculate the battery replacement or vehicle replacement costs, because if you drive / charge more the battery will lose its capacity quicker. The battery replacement might be more expensive that the actual value of the vehicle after 8 to 10 years. So, you're back buying a car again, so you're not really gaining anything.
Thanks for the info. I just bought a 2017 Volt (Premier) for $24,500 after Federal and State tax credits. That's about $10,000 less than the average new car cost in the USA. My electricity cost is $30 per month for the car and I'm saving about $170 per month in gas costs. I get 55 miles per charge and average about 35 miles a day for driving. No need for a charging station due to my short commute and back-up gas generator (which I have yet to use). It takes about 8 hours (110 volt / Level 1 charging) to replenish the 35 miles of the used EV driving range back into the battery each day.
Great video. I am considering changing from my Hybrid to all Electric, and have been watching many videos on line and visiting dealerships. Your twice mentioned comment that you at the minute wouldn't have an electric only car as sole car has now worried me! I live in Norfolk country area, and do approx 17000 miles per annum, with a regular 100 mile round trip approx 2-3 times per week. I thought an electric car would do the job, but your remark has seriously made me doubt this!
It would do the job but If I do a longer journey for work the missus (who works after I get home) might not have enough for her to get to her work. It's a rare event but can happen and I couldn't take that chance. 150mile realistic winter range would solve that though. At the mo that's only the Zoe 40 or the BMW i3 Rex.
Martin O'Dell back to list
I have evaluated Tesla, Nissan and BMW. Only the Tesla has the pedigree, the technology and the infrastructure required. This will be my first brand new car - Tesla Model 3. Roll on 2020.
Stephen Baxter sorry but how can you say Tesla has pedigree? Fantastic car but pedigree! Surely not.
I believe its a fair description given the evolution from the Roadster.
thanks for doing this research, appreciated. my situation would suit an ev, but unfortunately I live in a terraced street. Hopefully one day there will be a solution to this problem.
We got rid of our Vauxhall spontaneous-com busting MPV... sorry, I mean Zafira, earlier this year. Fuel costs were upwards of £170 / month as 1.9CDTi was only efficient for longer journeys. Aside from the major recall (well, actually two recalls) knocking my confidence in the vehicle, it was also reaching an age where parts were beginning to fail on a regular basis (automatic box looked like it might be on way out, doors no longer locked or stayed locked), and it went through tyres and brakes like butter.
Bought a 14 plate Acenta from main dealer and paying £155/month and currently paying £20 on electricity. We also have the advantage here that ChargePlace Scotland encourages free rapid and fast chargers (in fact aside from a few Ecotricity rapids, only a couple of councils charge and it is fair amounts) so I'm hoping with destination charging at work to get this below £15/month. It's our only car, but still wouldn't look back - just waiting for a 40kWh or greater battery by the time we're looking to replace it in three years...
Great video and very informative. For me the Nissan leaf is my only car. in six months I've not found any restraints warranting a second ICE car. I cannot say I do little millage either. so far I've done 10k EV miles.
I have purchased a 2013 SV with 11,500 for $7,900 (US dollars) that was three months ago. It is a second car to a 2014 Ford focus SE. I love this car so far, the only problem with driving a shorter range EV in the states is we tend to drive further. I pulled the carfax on mine before I purchased, because I had a few to choose from and found that it had the battery replaced at 11k, so with a new battery (30kwh lizard) it was a no brainer!
This is a great little overview and comparison, however, it doesn't cover the average yearly costs of servicing, consumables, running and maintenance costs, namely the differences with internal combustion versus electric, i.e. oils, fluids, greases, bearings, belts, brake wear and the like, depending on the type of car, this can be thousands of dollars a year.
Given the variable nature of cars out there it's very difficult to compare. Minis come with a 5 year service option for example.
just a guestimate
for the ICE car you own
I'm helping my brother get his first 2013 Nissan leaf SL right now. I currently own a 2013 Nissan Leaf SL, and I love it. Bought it almost new and regret paying 24k USD for it. My brother on the other hand will buy his for ~10K USD. I'm jealous about his price tbh. Carpool access is very ideal for high traffic lanes such as California, Los Angeles.
really interesting....... electric cars will make it but the fact the range is a lil low and the 1 hour charging puts me off at the min far more than the price! If we had 2 cars I would follow you in having a engine car and an electric car. Really great videos please keep them up :)
Well researched, well presented and to the point; well done.
Hi, which leasing company were you looking at? which one do you think is the best?
Excellent Presentation, but you missed one important comparison and that is service costs. My last car was a skoda City Go, I didn't keep it long, as I didn't like the driving experience, so never had a full service, but it would have been over £200 a year I believe. Second point, you were too generous with the MPG figures, Skoda claimed 60+mpg on urban cycle, the best I could ever get was 45MPG (I keep a computer log of MPG on each fill up) and that is on a 1 litre engine.
Railwayman John well i get over 50mpg with short and long journeys combined on my 2.0l tdi vw scirocco. Small engined cars are the worst for not being anywhere near the mpg stated as you need to put your foot down to get it to go anyehere.
Craig Glass No car is anywhere near its claimed MPG. I owned a Mazda 3 diesel it claimed 70 MPG. I never reset the trip computer I was getting 44 MPG I always stick to speed limits.
Interesting video. Just to pick up on the Ecotricity fast chargers, they are still free for Ecotricity customers! Ecotricity also have an EV electric tariff and you get up to 52 rapid charges per year. As you said, most people don't tend to use the rapid chargers unless they are doing a long trip.
thanks for a great video, I didn't think it was possible to get one so cheap
Great video. My 2014 Zoe was five and half grand with 80 pounds a month battery lease. Longest trip 220 miles, used free ecotricity rapid chargers so cost to me was £1.40.
I just recently picked up a brand new BMW i3 REX 94Ah for £259 per month with £780 deposit. This was a 2 year personel lease at 8k per year, not sure if you can still get them this cheap as I ordered mine in late August and it only arrived end of November.
Martin Shinners was that through BMW or another lease company?👍🏻
Do I get right about Leaf charging at public stations - if there is no ChaDeMo connector, you can't use it? Or type2 can be used somehow?
All Leafs have chademo. Always have.
What I mean is it limited to Chademo and 3-pin homeplug?
Because I thought of buying used Leaf, but there are no Chademo nearby. There is one in Folkestone, but it is at the Tunnel Shuttle Terminal, so you need to book trip to France to access one - not the cheapest way to charge :) And there is one point in Sandwich, but I can't even think of why would I go there. All the other stations in nearby towns only have Type2 chargers. I wouldn't be able to use one of those I believe, right?
All leafs have chadmo and type2 chargers (mennekes). The only option on the car was if it is 3.3kw or 6.6kw. That only affects the speed. The leaf is by far the most compatible when it comes to EV's. Remember though that 90% plus charging is done at home. This might help: ua-cam.com/video/iETWIeNsWi8/v-deo.html
Well, that's my issue. I live in large block of flats. And while you do get a space, it is not fixed. So one day you might have a space next to your block and run extension out of the window (I live on the second floor, so no structural problem there) and another day you end up with a space on the other end of the building. In these conditions, I doubt that the board would let anyone to assign dedicated charging bays.
The question about Mennekes though is because there're plenty of them in destinations I might go to, like Broadstairs (Westwood Cross shopping centr) or Ashford, or Canterbury. But if you can use Mennekes for charging Leaf, then it is great - I'm one step closer to having my first EV
With no guaranteed charging (sometimes they go down) the only EV I would consider is the i3 rex as you have the rex as a backup.
Actually although you can buy a similar petrol car for the same cost its still cheaper even if its the same price and here is why... EVs demand will grow and that will help with the depreciation and the return will be better when it is sold in the future. Also your putting money into a nicer car that costs more yes, however that is offset with running cost. For me with oil prices expecting to rise and the demand is increasing I would say that 2018 is the turning point for EVs... So much so i sold my Porsche Boxster 3.4S for a Leaf... And quite proud that i switched, I cant wait to collect my Leaf on the 1st of June.
40 mpg? Here in the US that's unheard of LOL The average car gets between 17 and 30 mpg.
US & UK gallons are different though.
Different test system eg speeds driven at, road types etc as well as gallon size I think.
US gal = 3.78 L . Imperial gal=4.55 L or 5 quarts in Imperial , 4 quarts in US .
The Leaf and Zoe have been out long enough that there are now quite a few that have come to the end of their lease/PCP deals and are now available for people to buy on the 2nd hand market.
It will be interesting to see what happens over the next few years as the used market increases, and people who wouldn't do a lease or PCP can afford to buy a used car.
When there are enough cars that have been out there long enough, we might eventually be able to answer the question about the service life of the battery and replacement cost, or hopefully, we will still be able to say "don't know, they haven't been around long enough yet"
what about insurance? I was quoted £400 for a leaf v £200 for my car. what insurance company do you use? is there any you would say are better? thanks
Depends what car you were comparing it against. If it was a 5 year old fiesta vs a brand new LEAF (bigger car) then it's not a valid comparison. Directline are cheapest for me at the mo plus quidco cashback.
£248pm on my leaf and that is for 14,000 miles, I get free charging at work each day, I estimate I pay £100pm max for a brand new car as the saving on fuel is fantastic.
I'm in the US, and my wife and I own a 2014 40 mpg gas car and a 2013 LEAF. I paid $16,000 new for the gas car and $9,000 for the used LEAF, so hard to do a straight comparison. I'm sure the LEAF is cheaper though since we bought it at such a low price ($150 payments, $2000 down)
another point worth mentioning is that if you are an ecotricity customer for your gas and electricity at your home, rapid charging is FREE on motorways etc. and you also get £40 off your bills for having a ev.
It's not free though considering for most people Ecotricity are £400-£500+ more expensive than other green providers per year. Plus they limit it to 52 charges a year (1 per week).
for me its £700 more for Ecotricity, that makes the 52 so called free charges actually £14 each. Lol that makes a mockery of the term free. Im glad they recently got outed by the Advertising standards agency for misleading people.
These numbers are, of course, UK specific.
The UK is really good for electric cars because it's a reasonably small country, there's so much tax on petrol, and we have low cost night-time electricity available.
my work charges for free
$0 a month to use
Great video
I bought Nissan Leaf 1.5 year old 8000 miles for £11000 by selling for £2500 my Lexus.
I need £8500 loan for 3years £250/months + £25/months electric cost 700-750 miles/months.
After three years I own the car and I will pay only £25 running cost great deal :)
Before £100-125/months Diesel £18/months road tax and expensive maintenance
And when that battery comes due to be replaced, all those savings will be vanished.
What is the "electric equivalent" to miles/gallon. How does one calculate how many watts are used to run an electric vehicle. Have a research study to do and I am completely clueless about cars/ electricity etc.
It's set as miles per kWh.
Average is 4mpkwh
Electric Leaf Man thanks for the quick response. Do you own an EV? If so will you be willing to answer a few questions. I need a primary source, not very easy to come by. Thanks again!
Have you not seen my channel then?
where did you the deals from?
Are all these prices for leasing the car or buying it? Will there be a balloon payment?
PCP or lease. There is balloon at the end but it's cheaper to do this then hand back.
Seen the interior of the Tesla 3? Looks like the future!
I was there on day with with a deposit.
Electric Leaf Man shame Tesla have removed all the good stuff Elon promised would be included as standard. Oh sorry he didn't promise, he chose words that sounded like it had everything when it actually doesn't.
Can you provide some links where you found those deals. The b class seems cheap.
Merc deals have expired. Have a google.
Electric Leaf Man so where's the case for EV in 2017? I'm genuinely in the market to replace my leaf Tekna (costing £227) and my Volt (costing £300) with viable and modern equivalents and there is nothing. I'd replace the leaf with the ioniq at £227 but no way at £350. The 30kwh leaf just isn't new after having one already for two years, the extra range isn't enough to change my life and justify an extra cost. The soul is a pat van lol. There's just nothing desireable out for realistic money
Everything's more expensive though, cars in general. I'd go used til the M3 turns up.
Electric Leaf Man I think behind the scenes Tesla is struggling to get Model 3 together. They promised over 200 miles range and yet they have now said it won't have a 60kwh battery as standard so won't have a proper 200 mile range. Elon made it sound like it would have full autopilot but it's now an option. Free supercharging is now a thing of the past. £ is on its arse so what's next? Is the price going to be £35k? That's far too much and will result in PCP deals around £500-600 per month. I don't believe people will pay that. Turning those pre orders into confirmed sales may not be as easy as they think. The Model 3 could be the end of Tesla. It makes me wonder if other manufacturers are holding off to see if it takes them down. If it does then they can pack up their EV toys and claim there's insufficient demand. Who could argue?
You can lease the BMW M140i 340bhp for only £279 per month at the moment, that takes some beating for the money.
Here you go. ultimatevehicleleasing.co.uk/show/vehicle-details/5509-mercedes-benz/72213-b250-e-electric-art-premium-5dr-auto?term=24&annual_mileage=10000&initial_rental=9&type=CAR
Love you videos from across the pond (USA). Is it possible to compare the repair costs between an EV and gas car, say over 50,000 miles?
Too many variables.
I almost bought the Mercedes but then I talked to someone who had bought one, they couldn't get it above 110-130km pr charge, even tough with the "range extend" charge button, it should be possible to go up to 230km. Mercedes then got it and tried to drive it themself, and they couldn't get it above 130 either no matter how hard they tried. I have tried to find any others with experience with this car but that is hard since there so few of the driving around, I have been unable to find any direct source except from one review that also supported the 100-120km range(but I got the a suspicion when reading it that they didn't use re-gen braking right).
If it had a battery upgrade and fast charge possibility, it would be cool.
Regen braking doesn't do that much, it can't create energy where there is none. The lesser range is accurate.
Brilliant was really useful! Thanks.
Can I ask where you find the Mercedes deal ? I had a quick look and couldn't find anything less than about £300/month.
I believe it was merc stoke. Although that price has gone. Could try ringing
Interesting numbers. Electric costs keep changing, as usual, in the upwards direction!
But remember, if the cost of electricity rises then so will the cost of petrol and diesel, because oil refineries also need electricity......
That was useful. I have one query though. You did not compare for you use case. From 20K PA. We have been looking at ALL the various cars but the 20K Miles we do makes a PCP really expensive. Thank you have great Christmas & New Year
I got a unique deal after a service mishap so not a great comparison. It's 8p per mile for excess. £80 per 1000 miles on top of pcp.
interesting video, pity you did not mention the on the road cash price which gives a quick comparison.
Good comparison, guess the cost ratio between fossil and electric cars are similar in many countries.
In Sweden you also can factor in road taxes which is none for the first five years, then it´s 360 SEK per year. A 15 year old BMW 320i is 2570 SEK per year or 12850 SEK for five years.
Exchange rate is about 12:50 SEK for £1, so it´s about £1000 less in tax for the first five years.
do we have to charge them dont they charge while we drive?
Unfortunately, nobody has yet figured out how to produce a perpetual motion car.....
Not seen any videos for a while, missing the dash cams!
ua-cam.com/users/ardandy
can you do a service cost difference between a EV and ICE
how much? 6995 USD used 2012 SL.... so happy. making a video review now... thanks for this video! gonna show friends it.
ferkemall I do own the battery and have one month left on the capacity warranty and till 2020 on the 8 year 100k mile functional warranty.. I think that's a good thing. it gets me to work and back twice on one charge no problem so I'm good there :)
no problem! Yeah, check out my review i made on my channel, you can see some of the pitfalls. Especially public charging. As for the battery replacement cost, 6500$ minus 1000$ trade in. i say the bggest pitfall is public charging. people are not considerate of others way too often either leaving their EVs plugged in for longer than needed or gas cars parked in the EV places... yeah..
+ferkemall if you bothered to even quickly check his channel, you would see he is american, and they do not have battery lease there...
Comparing electric vehicle cost to vehicles with 40, 50 and 60 mpg fuel efficiency is unrealistic since few even fuel efficient cars really get that kind of actual fuel efficiency. You should include 25 - 35 mpg which is more realistic.
What is the battery life and replacement cost?
John Mac 8 year warranty and there are many batteries, not just one like a phone so you only replace faulty cells, not the whole thing.
Should have included how much it cost to buy upfront, the only other issue is the that you have to wait to recharge the car which can take several hours, whereas refilling a petrol is several minutes. not only that, fast charging damages the batteries so that will wear the batteries down faster with will be a very costly repair bill to replace the batteries, replacing a battery is meant to be about the £5K plus area if it goes wrong and you own the battery.
Just took delivery of my leaf Accenta 4th July . Had a xc90 34mpg . Did a pro n con on costs the leaf came out top by £21 a month on pcp . So I now drive a new car cheaper than a 2004 xc90 diesel.
Can I ask a question? Did my channel in any way help/persuade you to get a Leaf? If so then there's a new Leaf Ambassador scheme just started that I've now joined. Yours might be too late but basically it means I would get £200 and you would get £100. I'll be doing a vid soon about it to try and actually get something back from the channel after nearly 2 years. I believe the date you picked up, Reg No. and date ordered are all that's needed. You can DM me of course to carry this on. Cheers!
Hi yes , your videos and blogs helped me make a decision. Like you it was a purely financial decision. I've only used the car twice before coming on holiday to Bulgaria so one of my questions Will be answered on Thursday will be how much power have I lost leaving it parked up for two weeks. As for the ambassador thing no problem I'm from Sheffield so a Yorkshire man so it appeals to me. How do we swop details?
As for the ambassador thing no problem um from Sheffield so a Yorkshire man . How do we swop details on here .?
Go on my channel homepage,, click About and it should have a Send Message button.
Hi my wife has told me DM means direct message. Don't know how on here its all new to me.
Was going to buy an i3 until i saw the price of them. Tax exempt v8 is way more fun,will continue with current car until electric cars become a reasonable price both new and 2nd hand.
Great video,but you forgot calculate the mantenence of the EV & combustion cars for that 20k a year,I think you will have a big + £ on the conbustion ones,what you think......
Has anyone considered the cost of installing a "fast" home charger in the calculations ?
At most it's £250 but most give one for free. Nissan were last I checked, I think Renault do and Tesla. Prob BMW too.
how about the imev from Mitsubishi
Not sold anymore.
Additional saving from next April will be £140 a year for road fund licence. EVs will still be zero but all ICEs even those under 100gm Co2 will be £140
Very interesting thanks
In all of Ireland north and south the electric still free at 99.9% of points, my Renault 43kw 22w 50 quid lease for 7500 battery for four years, made no sense to buy as 1800 Quid toward lease , so really battery 600 quid lease for four years , so bought car on pcp will have 2000 to pay at end if keep and have option to change battery to 40 kw from latest in , obviously will be cost approx 2500/3500 + , 2 years in have saved in excess of 1500 as mostly free, and only done 13500 miles. Did get best deal on battery in Nov/Dec 2014 reduced for short time, normally 70 quid, spent more on sweets, coffee, washer fluid and car wash by miles, when charges come in will charge mainly at home, solar will subsidise this partially. Like uk mainland far more leafs by far but problem is they block many of the chargers for hours on end due to old charge system , dc fast charging only on major roads, 22kw in most other places , my last 2 litre diesel i managed 42 real dirty miles. 40 kw battery is a game changer in my opinion
Should've done 30mpg vehicle as well as the others. Realistically how many cars on road are doing 50 or 60mpg?
In the U.K. most new cars equivalent to a leaf will do 50+
If you were going to replace your car you would look at cars that did that mpg
really helpful thanks
TL;DR; Electric: 1400 euro all-in for 24k km. Petrol: 2442 euro for 14k km.
I've just made up the bill after one year of driving electric. I bought a 2nd hand Mitsubishi i-MiEV (2010) for 10k euro and have driven it for over 24k km the last year.
- 3300kWh to travel that distance
- 347,25 euro for ~930kWh on public charging and 19,82 euro on fast charging at Fastned.
- 2300kWh home charging for 437 euro.
- 150 euro for 2 new front tires after 1 of them was worn down badly from being soft.
- 40 Euro bi-yearly mandatory check
Meanwhile our Suzuki Swift (2008) drove about 14k km and cost us 2440 euro including a 362 euro large service interval.
If I had driven the same distance (24k km) with the Suzuki Swift or the old Peugeot 206 diesel I would have been out of quite a bit more money, 2900 and 3200 respectively. Without maintenance. I wrote a tool of my own to help me with calculating the costs, you can find here. iserv.nl/files/pics/imiev/cost.php/
Are you taking into account the gov grant
Yes.
interesting. Admittedly paid a lot less for my sell off mk1 Leaf. Done the maths for a full decade of ownership which includes everything, including replacing the kitchen sink. £320/month.
However to me it will never reach zero. I want the battery pack for the house supply.
I was going to lease a middle market Tesla but cannot justify spending £30k in three years.
Hi 👋🏾
Can you help me ?
That's a really good overview, when batteries become a lot better and the infra structure is better they'll be awesome but at the moment I agree that the range is bad, only on the Teslas they're good but "rapid" charging is still not rapid at all, 40 minutes for an 80% charge isn't rapid =P
Batteries need to be made from abundant materials too not Lithium or Cobalt because those are very limited. Hydrogen Fuel Cells are great when everything is done right from renewable energy. I know they're not as efficient as battery electric but they fill up the same speed as a petrol car and that's something I want, not basing my life around a 40 minute charger to have bugger all range too.
Both need much more support with infra structure, especially in the UK, it's still lagging big time and I'd be willing to bet that the shitty brexit thing isn't helping things at all, just dragging everything out.
Those prices are for leasing a car right ? Not for actually owing a car ?
Either lease or part finance.
So, where did you get that quote for the Kia Soul ev? About 220£ pcm ? I've checked in Kia website and no option to part finance as the Nissan
www.fleetdrive-electric.com/
Thanks for the information man, but these are for leasing only . What about for buying the Kia Soul ?
Could try carwow.
Take time out of the calculation. Just use mileage. Compute cost/mile and then apply it to the life of the car since cars tend to wear out after a given amount of use (mileage) not time.
Then, compare the lifetime fueling costs to the purchase price (or total lease cost).
I would love an electric car for the fuel savings. Problem is I own my car outright so the monthly cost is £0 a month so will have to wait till I'm replacing it :-(
Excellent balanced explanation of the costs of owning an electric car. We currently have a leaf and an oil burner. Soon as the range is 200 miles plus the oil burner will be dumped. Electric is the future. Recent excellent fully charged show where the prediction is 100% of car production will be electric by 2030.
Found this Leaf offer. www.nissanretail.co.uk/new-nissan-cars/electric-vehicles/nissan-leaf/acenta/none-flex/
i lease a kia soul ev over 3 years £199 plus £1200 …about £233 per month… good value….
A petrol or diesel from cold will not instantly to 40/50/60MPG. So if you, for example, do lot's of short/town driving the car will not be as economical... Electric will be even cheaper :)
Unfortunately, neither Kia, Renault, nor Mercedes Benz, or Nissan list any of their EVs on the Motability Scheme, (a 3-year lease) and the Hyundai Ioniq is only available as a hybrid, not the EV version. So it's petrol for me - again.
For your calculations you assume people in UK do average of 12000 miles a year per car but this is miles out :-) see www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/nts09-vehicle-mileage-and-occupancy . Average Joe does probably 8-9000 per year and dropping slowly every year (BBC said 7900 per year in news report in 2014). Of course, if people do the calculations you suggest then it doesn't matter as they can see for themselves and make an informed decision.
I should have said we lease an i3 94Ah REX and it's superb! I think the ownership model is dead personally and have no interest in owning a car with so much technology (much like phones on a contract)!
I've been doing some research on prices recently as I need rid of my leaf and Volt in the next few months. The prices of EV have gone up and tbh there is only one desirable car (i3 Rex), however even these are £100 per month more now on lease than last year. Once EV hits £300 per month the numbers fall apart as the car your getting is not competitive with other cars of the same price, savings also start to go out of the window. My old leaf Tekna was £1000 deposit and £227 per month, I consider that a great deal and what it's worth. Not a penny more. Now they are more expensive for the same old car. Zoe is a waste of time as it's got feminine styling and I'm a man. ioniq is £100 too expensive per month for an electric Prius. The argument is falling apart now you also have to factor in expensive rapid charging or limit the car.
Both the Leaf and i3 are bigger batt versions though so not the same car. Used can be a bargain.
Electric Leaf Man a slightly bigger battery doesn't get around the fact they and the Zoe are still old designs. Leaf and Zoe were outdated when they were released. The Zoe doesn't even rapid charge anymore. New 94ah I3 Rex works exceptionally well but BMW are clearly trying to price it so that people don't order it. It's increased in price from £225 last year to over £300 this year. On no planet is a Zoe worth £300 per month. Same with the Ioniq at £350. That's crazy. A BMW M140i 340bhp can be leased for £279 per month. TBH at least it's worth putting the petrol in it lol.
I agree to a point. The early adopter deals aren't around anymore so as things are more mainstream they'll be less silly offers. They are around though if you look hard enough.
Electric Leaf Man I am looking. Spent far too much time turning over stones and getting nowhere. The cars are being priced far too high for what they are.
Leaf 30kwh Tekna 6.6 £1500 deposit, £320per month. Too expensive by £90 per month.
Ioniq premium SE £1500 deposit £360 per month. Too expensive by £130 per month for what it is.
Zoe 40KWh battery and some spec, £1500 deposit £300 per month, too expensive by £100. Girls car and outdated. Also slow even compared to a leaf.
I3 Rex 94AH £1500 deposit £340 per month with some essential options. £60 too expensive but phenomenal car that works very well. Can also avoid the highway man.
E golf, still around £370 per month, good car but outdated and range only 100 miles max. Far too expensive. TDI is £200 per month for same car and less compromises.
Bclass EV £350 per month, too expensive for a £200 per month car with no rapid charging. It's still a b class with limited appeal.
Twizy, damn battery lease kills this as a bit of fun.
So what's left? Where's the compelling electric cars promised back in 2015 to be coming in 2017? No Bolt, Model 3 won't be in anyone's hands really until end of 2018 if ever. The game has changed now, Ecotricity changed it. Feels like the only way forward is to go back to ice. Painful thought after being on the EV train for as long as I have been but the ice equivalents have got much better recently and the lease deals have never been better. Up to £220 per month you will sacrifice your dignity and image for cheap and cheerful motoring. Over £300 it's a different story, I want it all for that price. I shouldn't be paying £300+ per month to drive an eco car I don't want to be seen in.
Have you tried carwow?
Where and how can I find out, how many people buy an EV then after a time, decide to give up and go back to an ICE car
I pay £230 pm pcp, with £8k deposit for 30kwh leaf. So I'd love to know how to get that 8k back :-)
That must be HP, not PCP?
Electric Leaf Man It is PCP
We should meet up and have a bar chat for your blog. I will play devils advocate as a distressed EV owner whose sick of the false promises from manufacturers and fake news of new models from bloggers. In the last 2 years nothing has changed. Things have only got worse in EV. I will throw in a ride in my Tesla Roadster Sport
I almost envy you Brits, USA just doesn't have the infrastructure for electric vehicles. There are only 2 even close to me, we're talking 20 minutes for the nearest and at least 30 for the other. When you throw in traffic and mileage, it's not worth it here. In California I understand there are many charging stations, so out there I might would go for it. Here in middle Tennessee no way. I like your break down though ELM, it lays it all out. When you add in the cost of service every 3 months or 3000 miles + gas + purchase ICE are really expensive to own.
Buy a used one every time, providing you can find one without battery lease.
I bought a 400 pound diesel with a yearly fuel bill off 980 a year if I buy a second hand leaf lowest price 6000 for the car so fuel bill alone will take 6 years to pay itself off then the battery after 7 years needs to be replaced if battery isn't leased so cost of an electric car for me car on finance 200 a month then battery lease then higher insurance premium exceeds my cost for the diesel so an electric car doesn't make sense and I work on my own car which I couldn't do on a electric car so repair on my diesel is cheaper to
The battery is warranted for 8 years for one so that’s bollocks. You’ve also not figured out that you’re comparing a really old £500 car with a 5-6 year old Leaf. Finally, do you believe that a £500 car will have no repair bills? Dear me!
@@ElectricVehicleMan actually point I'm making if you read properly is spending all that money to go electric isn't as cheap as people think for example a fiesta and a zoe same sized car zoe over a year is 1000 more to run so over a 3 year period isn't so cheap after all and no I've not had one repair bill in the 3 years I've had it just servicing and maintenance so don't dare try and play the big dick fella this is why people are put off ev because of self righteous pricks
You’re comparing a £500 car with a £6000 car and then saying it’s £1000 cheaper to run. Nothing to do with my large penis, it’s called common sense. So in 3 years youve spent money on oil changes or all the other stuff you don’t need to do with an EV, again making it cheaper. Now let me finish this lesson in maths by reminding you that after 3 years the much newer EV will still be worth about £3000 as opposed to the likely worthless banger by then being worth £0. Meaning it’s actually £2000 cheaper, not £1000 dearer. Total cost of ownership is all that ultimately matters when calculating running costs! Then I’ll try not to point out that this video is from 2016 and kinda less relevant to today’s situation.
Miles? Gallon? Really? I thought that the UK went metric decades ago... :(
Björn Felten The UK uses a mixed system for roads etc it's still all Imperial everything else is pretty much metric although dimensions are generally given in both metric and imperial
Wow American cars get 20~30 MPG. 35 is really really good milage. Of course there's the Ford Fiesta...
european cars now are regularly sold with 60-70 mpg, it seems crazy that US cars are still getting such bad mileage.
the british gallon is different to the american one, not shure how british mpg compares to the american one
Tobias, the US uses the imperial gallon which came from Britain. They now use the metric litre, which I usually convert to gallons for my American friends who don't google. The Brits therefor use kilometers per litre which is very different from MPG.
Well, I know am. cars are not efficient but what sometimes is forgotten, is that there's almost 1 liter difference between an am. gallon and a british one.
Also the efficiency is still meassured in MPG.
the same car has on the british website almost the dopple performance compared to the same car on the american one. Mainly because of different testing standards, but not only. Out of curiosity I compared the VW Passat S between vw.uk and vw.com
Uk: 70.6 MPG, US: 27MPG!!! both combined
Wow. I was about to go all batshit on you so I checked. I am sorry I was wrong. us gal is 3.7 litres while the imperial gallon is 4.2l. I am shocked. I wonder what other crap I've been spouting from a misremembered high school science class? I posted something about a Toyota minivan in Japan that was getting 60 or 70 miles to a litre, maybe that was all off too- the Japanese public were all pissed off 'cause it was too LOW!!! lol
You should have used a real world comparison of a real world car like a VW Polo or a Toyota Yaris or whatever you call it across the pond.
The car is irrelevant. It's the mpg that matters on a cost basis.
Some cars are dirt cheap to lease. If you are doing a true comparison you should use retail prices. Electric car leases are artificially low because of the tax brake the leasing agent gets. Take the tax brake out add depreciation and unless you get a Tesla at this point Electric cars are far more expensive than gas cars. That is changing.
Buy your analogy my 2001 17 mpg Jeep cost less to own than your leaf.
If you did the miles I do (20k a year) then you'll spend more on fuel than I will on the car and fuel combined plus repairs etc.
$255 a month including 3 oil changes per 20,000 miles. The Jeep has long been paid for and is completely reliable at 300,000 miles with the original trans and engine. I am using 17 mpg. To get up to 20k per yer My mileage would be more like 19 mpg. At 10,000 miles a year the jeep would be far more economical. I do not think your battery would make it to 300,000 miles.
My 2000 Celica averaged 32 mpg over its 300,000 mile 14 year life. Even adding in the 17k I paid for the car $500 a year for repairs it still hits $272 per month. Trust me there were many years when I did not spend $500 on repairs. In fact most years oil changes 2 times a year for $120. Never needed an engine, transmission or exhaust. I did put in a new clutch in at 200,000 miles. I understand that gas is far more expensive in Europe but so is electric. Tiers brake fluid wiper blades are all things you have to service on an electric car also.
I am in. I have an order on a Tesla 3. I can only hope that I get any were near the performance I have received from my ICE cars. My number one reason for going for the 3 was safety and performance vs cost.
I spend £210 (no initial deposit) a month on the car and all fuel and repairs (none). That's £2520 a year. If I had your MPG in an ICE even doing 25MPG it would cost me £4142 a year in fuel alone! That's my point, do enough miles and it's cheaper than even a free ICE car. To get 100% charging at home it costs me £1.35.
£90 a month fuel, £140 a year emissions charge, £100 a year servicing, car cost me £600. 1.0 low mileage, well looked after.
So your running costs alone are £1,320 plus any repairs. An EV would be about £450 per year it pure running costs.
The true cost would be a lot more in a perfect situation. Running costs are not the only costs
After watching this I definitely feel like I've been ripped off on my 2015 golf GTE 🤔😡
It's a Golf, what do you expect?!
Gareth Glover I test drove the GTE, thought it was diabolical to drive after my Volt. E Golf drove much better, i3 Rex even better still.
who is doing the deal on leaf acenta 30kw £239pcm with no deposit.?
speakev.com/threads/leaf-acenta-30kwh-from-just-245-per-month-0-zero-deposit.20656/ - Not sure if still on though. Quote I got isn't from this but close enough.
Also try carwow.
ok thanks.keep up the good work, love the videos
The issue I see with electric vehicles is there long term second hand value when batteries need replacing it will be more then the car is worth. For people like me that buy older second hand cars electric doesn't look value for money
oakphisto the issue I see with ICE cars is not knowing how long until the engine breaks with a repair that could cost thousands.
You get an 8 year batt warranty on the 30 Leaf and you only need to replaced the failed cells not the whole battery so I fail to see the issue? Don't believe the £5000 for a new battery myth. For one there are many batteries, not one big one.
There are electric cars which have done in excess of 100,000 miles with no noticeable battery degradation. The maintenance on the car by 100,000 miles would be significantly less than a petrol or diesel equivalent so even supposing that battery cells did need replaced, the overall maintenance costs over the ownership term would be lower in the electric car I would speculate.
I have also seen videos of slow degradation over high miles, but have also seen half capacity after 50,000 miles, temperature has a big effect on the performance of a battery. There is a big market for ICE cars 10 years and older mines 13 years old. But who going to buy a 10 year old electric car that might need a new battery costing many thousands.
P.S. I want an electric car but only when it's more cost effective that ICE cars
I am paying $0 and about $170 on gas. Proper cheap I tell thee!!
All i do is drive to work and to friends. All i need is max 20kwh battery or even less combined with efficent drivetrain. I would never get bigger battery because cost duh! and even more important, because when it dies replacement price wont require selling a kidney...Lets face it if i need to go longer i take the bus..and that happens ..well almost never.
Leasing, is rent you own absolutely nothing after you period of payment
The merc's a joke, better off buying a bike, if had no wheels couldn't be any worse, name only , mercs behind the times,old tesla gear installed with ridiculously slow charging , give you time whilst charging to cry your head off. Don't even think of buying the merc
Typical of electric car drivers, you've forgotten about maintenance costs! Just because your EV doesn't need oil changes, belts, hoses, radiator fluid, etc., doesn't mean they shouldn't be counted.
Rob: It was sarcasm. The point is that EV maintenance costs are close to zero, but ICE vehicles need lots of maintenance. By the way, Tesla's don't use brake fluid.
They use electromechanical brakes.
www.quora.com/How-do-Teslas-friction-brakes-work
Sure, all cars could use them, but all cars could also use batteries for power too. They choose not to because they can make more money off of you on service. That's not Tesla's goal, so they use better equipment.
You don't have to service a tesla at all to keep the warranty either.
Trouble is I need to tow 2 tons and need a range of 500miles, I carnt see electric ever doing that, not in the next 10years at least
Spamfitters The Model X can do that now.
I think EVs are ridiculously overpriced even on the used market compared to automatic ICE cars As I'm looking for a cheap first car, an EV isn't up to the task at all for me.
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So you all recommend to lease a car instead of buying one? electric I mean offcourse
Whichever suits your needs.