Recently did a 1100mile return trip using Teslas network (for non-Tesla) and it was just seamless, fast, easy and so much cheaper. £8.99 for the month makes it 8-14p cheaper per kw. Sometimes as low as 35p/kw for my journey. Making it over half the cost of other networks. Total no brainer.
@@mikeforwarduk I have been driven in many Tesla Model 3 and Model Y taxis. I am afraid they have all been relatively noisy and all had an uncomfortable ride. I have also been driven in more than one Model S, which were much better, but ridiculously over-priced for the fit, finish and quality of construction. Tesla may be 5 years ahead of 'legacy' car manufacturers in relation to EV 'tech' but they are 25 years behind legacy car manufacturers in relation to noise, vibration and comfort. Unfortunately, Elon thinks he knows it all, however, he does not. After having been driven around in several Teslas, I could not imagine owning one.
Hi EV Man! You said that 50% to 55% of households can charge at home. That leaves 45% to 50% . . . . about half of all households who can NOT charge at home. I would love to switch to an EV but I am not prepared to be fu**ed up the a*se by cost of charging being 10 higher. Living in London, I use public transport, I only drive 2,500 miles per year. The largest cost of car ownership is depreciation and now, post-Covid, EVs are not doing great on that front.
If you can charge at home getting an EV will save you a lot of money. My car fuel bill has gone from approx £300 per month to about £30 per month. It saves about £3,000 per year or £30,000 over 10 years. I will save nearly double what I paid for the EV in 10 years. If you can't charge at home there's not enough incentive, financially, to get an EV...... yet
Charging prices in the UK are nuts! Most expensive CPOs here in Norway are 43p/kWh (5.99 NOK). The better ones are around 36p/kWh (4 NOK). It's been down around 22p this summer.
Competition might bring the prices down eventually. We are a long way behind on the roll out. The rapid chargers are expensive to install so they need to get their money back while they can.
@@dougbamford I've been thinking about this for a while. I think part of it is the weak Norwegian krone which make it appear cheaper. The NOK value has been cut in half in the past 15 years vs GBP, EUR and USD. The other is lower electricity prices on average. I've seen som home deals in the UK with 7p/kWh at night. That's like peak winter pricing here in Norway. We also have a 90% cap on the pricing here so when the price get up around 0.73 NOK (5.2p) the government covers 90% of the price above that. We do pay full 25% VAT on electricity though. Average price in my area was just above 0.23 NOK/kWh in September. That's like 1.6p/kWh :) Grid fee do come on top and varies by grid operators, of which we have roughly 80. I'm at 0.393 NOK/kWh 22-06 and 0.456 NOK/kWh in the day. So at night that would be 0.66 NOK/kWh (4.7p) + a peak demand fee per month. I'm in the 2-5kW bracket and pay 219 NOK (15.5 GBP).
We charge at home for the vast bulk of our needs. We pay 7 pence/kWh overnight for 6 hours. It works out to marcinally less than 2 pence/mile. Together with our GivEnergy batteries used to power the house and our solar panels, we have our monthly electricity bill down to just below £36 per month - and that INCLUDES` running the car.
However, if you cross the channel, on the french auto-routes it's €0.56 (47p) for a fast-charger and that's expansive. Basically you're been ripped off in the UK
UK has become rip off country indeed. Staying in EU would have guaranteed caps on gas and electricity prices. Leaving EU was so unbelievable stupid and UK become wild west of the past. Electricity prices in UK are 4 times more expensive than the former British colony of India. Stupid people voting on stupid politicians and stupidly believing in what politicians tell them. To sum it up uk is now officially the stupidest country in the world
Don’t forget these prices include 20% VAT on Services Electricity whereas home charging is only 5%, to further incentivise EV adoption the UK Govt should make business Electricity at these services and street charging to 5%
@@ianwatkins9609 Is that really the extra Incentivization that's going to convince all those 2nd hand ICE car owners, often in the price value of 7-12k to switch to an EV? (Those not able to home charge) Personally I don't think it is. Not when staring down the 2025 EV hate charter of £190 VED, expensive car supplement (which will impact the flow and uptake of 2nd hand car ownership) and the removal of the no congestion charge perks. Lets not forget, we all have access to comparison websites, so many find EV insurance 15-30% more than their current ICE (huge variance here obviously) Let's be honest, how many EV owners do you know who can't home charge. And if you do know any how happy are they really?
Don't forget the £1.45 fuel price includes £0.64 fuel tax; therefore, it is currently an unfair comparison. Even with this tax burden, fuel is still approximately 70% cheaper than public charging.
This is why I bought a Plug-in Hybrid. Most of my journeys are local on charge-at-home electricity, but use fuel at 46mpg with short refill time for long journeys.
@vxnova1 I disagree with you. If you have an economical and reliable Toyota Phev, it's the best of both world. Yes , I have a gas engine to service but no range anxiety and I don't have to adjust my life towards the car. For example, on long road trips where I didn't charge the traction battery, I still get 60 - 70mpg. I have currently done 44,700 miles in the last 34 months and my avg are 95mpge and 4mpkwh. No issues what so ever, only annual service every 10k miles.
Charged up at Charnock Richards last night, got a max of 38kwh on gridserve and was £0.79 per kwh, ridiculous price for that speed and no one else connected to it
Great video thanks. FYI in London we have lamp post chargere run by Car.gy (yes that is how you spell it). They charge 59p/kWh (day) and 39p/kWh (night 00:00 - 07:00). I have at least 3 within 1/2 mile of my front door.
50 mpg sounds a bit optimistic for an average figure. Yes, there are cars that can do 60 or more mpg but there probably more cars which do rather less - particularly in real usage. Most of my ICE vehicles have done well under 50 mpg overall.
My diesel Renault Scenic does a good 50 - 53 mpg overall on average, and it's 15 years old. Towing a 1300kg caravan, I get 30 - 35mpg depending on route.
I had a Ford C-max diesel. Steady motorway got me 60+mpg. Typical value over the years I owned it was 52mpg. Worst I ever saw was 48 mpg. ( this was values for MPG reset whenever I refilled the tank)
For an AVERAGE? Not a hope in hell. That EV figure is also substantially higher than a Tesla's. Literally the first hit on google : The average miles per gallon (MPG) for a new car in the UK is around 42 MPG. A car with 50 MPG or more is considered to have very good fuel efficiency. Here are some average MPGs for different types of cars: Petrol cars: Average around 36 MPG Diesel cars: Average around 43 MPG
And people forget to compare them to a car with similar performance. A 1.4 petrol or 2ltr diesel does not 0-60 sub 6 seconds and an ICE car that does, will not do 50mpg.
We have an Instavolt charger round the corner and it's always full of work vans, presumably using 'fuelcards'. I typically charge at the Aldi across the road which is 25p/kwh. While i have off street parking, i work nights so can't take advantage of the cheaper rates. I do often dump the car at my mother's and charge at her's overnight at 7p
Look at Ovo Anytime Charging , I work odd hours and if i get home at 6am in the morning i can departure charging for 8pm for just 7p per KW hour. Then you do not need to rely on the cheap overnight charging hours.
No citing on the insanely optimistic 50 mpg AVERAGE? Let's look at the first result from Google: The average miles per gallon (MPG) for a new car in the UK is around 42 MPG. A car with 50 MPG or more is considered to have very good fuel efficiency. Here are some average MPGs for different types of cars: Petrol cars: Average around 36 MPG Diesel cars: Average around 43 MPG And for EVs: Latest statistics on average electric car efficiency in the UK. According to a study conducted by T&E (Transport and Environment) based on real-world data, it was found that EVs (Electric Vehicles) consume around 17.6 to 23.5 kWh/100km on a mixed driving cycle. This roughly translates to about 2.8-3.7 kWh/mile. Now do the maths properly, both for motorway and urban driving. Let's say - the school run.
I do agree with you. Rapid chargers are really expensive to use as is the fuel price at motorway services. So when talking to people about this I always say you wouldn’t chose to fill your car with petrol or diesel at a motorway services if you don’t need to except when you are on that long journey. The same can be said with charging only use a rapid charger when there is no other option ie on that long journey. Every other time you charge at home we’re as you say it’s considerably cheaper doing so offsets the cost. There is one other option that maybe available if your stopping overnight find a hotel / b&b with overnight chargers at a considerably cheaper cost sometimes free if your lucky.
Thanks for the summary. It’s part why I’ve stopped using the leaf for long journeys - that and the gridserve Chademo policy. We still use the leaf for local journeys, but I’ve bought a new (to me) petrol for long journeys.
For comparision in Australia... Warm climate = greater miles per kwh , 4mi/kWh is a reasonable number (I get 5.7 lifetime in my model 3). Regular fuel averages $1.90 a litre , @ 50mpg (uk) = 17.3 cents per mile The average Tesla supercharger is 66c per kwh / 4 = 16.5c per kwh x 1.05 for charge losses x 1.05 for idle losses (drain while parked) = 18.2 cents per mile My home charge cost is 8c per kwh, I average 5.7mi per kwh lifetime = 1.4c per mile x 1.1 for losses = 1.5c per mile.
Oil Company owned charges have an interest in keeping the cost high and they appear to like leaving their chargers in a broken state to add to the impression that the charging network is not ready yet.
CP Scotland has been rolling out for at least 12 years. They are now upgrading old chargers. In my area it’s 35p if I join the network as a member. As You say there is over 200, and some in very very remote places.
Amazing breakdown. You got a subscription from me on this video alone. So basically home charging is half cost of petrol diesel and tepid charging is doubled the cost of petrol diesel . Crazy
I love my EV - but if I had to use the charging network it would have been sold by now. There simply has to be a premium to going through the hassle of network charging - No-one would put up with it and pay as much or more for petrol/diesel that you can fill up and enjoy much bigger ranges. My 7p rate with Octopus Intelligent is an absolute must else down the road it goes (or not...)
Also, public chargers incur 20% VAT rather Domestic 5%. So not only are commercial per KwH more expensive, we are taxed more also for changing in public. So to get the effect of VAT difference knock 15% of all those public charging costs,
You were pointing at the £1.45 per litre and said that people compare the highest price of EV charging with the lowest price of petrol. When did you film this? I filled up at my nearest petrol station for 128.7p per litre. Just "Googled" average price and it's £133.59.
Paying 70p to 80p to charge an EV is like paying say £15 a litre at motorway service station Yeah - not paying that If you do not have the ability to charge at home/drive - then don't bother with an EV (EV owner btw, but I haven't used, nor do I intend to use any public, let alone rapid charger) Probably 50% of motorists do not have the ability to charge at home easily, so EV's will only really be viable for less than half of the drivers - but alas this lost in the push to phase out ICE (and Hybrids) vehicles
@@AdamAugustPhoto according to RAC's own site, Tesco forecourt prices: Petrol is 132.4p avg with lowest 123.9p to 136.9p highest Diesel is 137.1p avg with lowest 130.9p to 141.9p highest So adding petrol/diesel avg then divide by 2 = 134.75p Me thinks say the fuel data price used was from say September 1st, to slightly bolster the ICE pence per mile to parity at top of chart, else the top two rows would show ICE is cheaper from the outset, compared to public charging networks Use a slightly higher ICE pence per mile, oh look it is about the same at the top of chart Again, if you can't charge at home then an EV is perhaps not for you
Petrol nearest me was 139.9. I know it's not a cheap station but driving to a cheaper one would cost more. Rural prices tend to be higher the further you are from civilization.
@@matthewwakeham2206 Depends on the actual distance & the savings... If you're saving 1p or 2p then not worth worrying about if you have to travel a little If the difference is 5p per litre, 40 litres = £2 saving which would allow say a 8 mile = 16 mile round trip to fill up at a cheaper station. Of course it will cancel each other out especially if you factor in your time taken. But if you actually view the RAC site it lists loads of places selling diesel at £1.35 at all corners of the country, with London station selling petrol for 123.9p
Just ordered my first EV so this video is really useful. Thankfully I can charge at home so most journeys should be reasonably cheap. What’s the difference in rapid charging costs in the EU?
It's nice to see someone showing the pricing from a point of view of someone who may not have access to home charging, perhaps you should do a video on destination charging, not that there's any of these in the area I live in, although I will never be able to buy an electric vehicle, I find these videos very informative
Here is my take on charging in the UK after having been here for 3 weeks. Its all over the place price wise. Ive paid 51p for curbside charging, I’ve paid 79p for DC charging at Gridserve and 41p at Tesla
Our Nissan Qashqai 50mpg diesel currently cost £76 and gives us a solid 500 miles. When I looked at a long range MGZS EV, that supposedly did 276 miles with it's 72.6kwh battery. I assumed I'd get a solid 250 miles. So if you take the avg uk public charging cost, it's about £68-69 to get the same 500 miles. Whilst EV sales are growing, private buyers are slowing and it's massively propped up by fleet sales. That 45-50% who neither get the convenience nor cost advantages of home charging are subjected to a 2-tier pricing system. 2025 post expensive EV supplements, VED and lost of congestion charge perks is going to be tough. You can see why for that demographic it's not a very attractive proposition. I should add I based the public EV charging avg at .44p kwh
@@proximaone1350 I'd be happy to wait until some independent data comes out on if they cost less maintenance wise. The afore-mentioned Nissan, we have it serviced at a local garage (not a Stealership) for the princely sum of £120 pa. We did take the decision to replace the timing belt + accessories earlier this year (£430) but other than the odd tyre replacement maybe we've been lucky. Our annual mileage now kids at college down to a few thousand, and I'm sure at somepoint we'll need breaks and pads. Nevertheless, at just over 72k in mileage (paid off obviously) we are planning to let the EV dust settle and maybe swap in 5 years. Hopefully an EV
From my experience of a 60mpg diesel, unless your doing steady motorway miles then you will not get that mpg, I got 28-32 mpg around town. Conversely EVs get better economy for urban and stop-start driving, so if that’s your driving style then EVs will look better.
@@monishbiswas1966 That is pretty much 95% urban, but in general I agree. On a recent trip to London and back (300 mile RT) we avg'd 65mpg for the entire trip. I do stick to speed limits though, so I Don't go mad lol
@@proximaone1350 the servicing costs mgh be lower, but the up front costs of purchase are much higher than ICE unless you want to buy chinese junk most EVs are 50% more expensive than their ice counterparts. also after 10 yrs the battery is close to been done, the same can not be said of an ice car. as thinbgs stand, because of battery tech limitations, this is never going to work as a true replacement for ICE, additionally the ammount of car battery fires are an increasing concern from many viewpoints, and flooding, lets not talk about what happens in major bad weather events
I drove from Kent, UK, to Greece in my Tesla model 3 in 2023 (actually to Venice because I took an overnight ferry from Venice to Greece). Total miles driven was 1002, and the total charging cost as it appeared on my bank statement (post fx) was £119. That is 11.9p per mile. This included a max blast on the German autobahn, and crossing the Austrian Alps. It took a relaxed 3 days. This number is 80% charge to 80% charge.
Have you done a detailed video for non-Tesla charging using Tesla charges? Including which of the many Tesla apps to use and how to use contactless payment when there doesnt appear to be a payment pad on them.
MER have installed three 22kw charge points in Lindley near the Huddersfield Hospital charging 44p kw. However I went there to try them, as my Renault Zoe has a built in 21kw charger, the charge points are shown in their app but could I find any of the three! Nope!! No idea where they are hiding!
Let's assume that a high proportion of those using rapid chargers are doing longer trips, where the distance exceeds the range of the car. And assume we're comparing the price per mile of rapid charging compared to motorway fuel prices. There's still a problem. Last month, my wife took our MG5 from Fife to Leeds - 250 mile journey, 250 mile range. There was nowhere to hook into mains at the far end, so no access to granny charger prices. Destination charging was an option if she could leave the car overnight ... but that wasn't going to happen. Her only option was to use rapid chargers. So we looked at the price of charging en route. The cheapest was at Jedburgh - 60p/kWh which wasn't too bad, but it was only a slow 50kW charger, and from there to Leeds and back would be 300 miles (plus some miles running around in Leeds). She could get to Newcastle - 69p is the cheapest we could find. Other than these, it would be a case of charging on the A1 / A1(M). On the way down, she used Scotch Corner Services - Gridserve, 79p/kWh. OUCH!!! (Yes, there's a discount if you use their app, but what's the point if your wife is only going to use the app once or twice and she objects to giving her personal & banking details to save a relatively small amount?) And yes, there's a Tesla station at Scotch Corner. But it's Tesla only, and in any case I struggle to find any Tesla chargers open to non-Teslas near any main road. In fact, unless you wanted to take the long way home from Newcastle (A1), there are NO Tesla chargers open to non-Teslas betwen Leeds/Harrogate and Perth/Dundee - so for us, this isn't an option whatever the price On the way home, my wife had a 'confidence' top-up at Boroughbridge - BP Pulse, 79p/kWh - in a little town a few miles from the motorway. This was the best option within a reasonable radius of the motorway. Then she did a full charge at Scotch Corner Services - Gridserve again, also 79p/kWh. . At the end of the day, the overall cost per mile for her trip was 13.5p/mile (280 at rapid charger prices, plus 250 at 8.95p overnight at home). So the cost was still much the same as (but no cheaper than) taking her petrol car. Taken over a year, the extra for rapid charging is insignificant, and running an EV is still a no brainer! BUT HERE'S THE PROBLEM. Driving a petrol/diesel, you could look at the area around a junction on any arterial road and, in all likelihood, find a supermarket within a couple of miles. Go there and you can avoid paying motorway prices. BUT look for a rapid charger in the area around the same junction, and the prices are essentially the same as on the motorway. The fuel vendors say that they HAVE to charge inflated prices on motorways because they have to cover the exorbitant cost of having the filling station in the service area. Presuming the landlord makes similarly exorbitant charges for hosting a charging station, the £/kWh must cover those charges. But charging stations outside the service area presumably don't incur those costs (which is why stations are popping up near, rather than in, service areas). So why is there no differential in the price?
It's a pain when two of the open to all superchargers (Perth and Dundee) are at the start/end of one's journey and there are no open to all chargers near where you are going. The chargeplace Scotland charges around Angus aren't too bad (55p/kWh) for 50kw charging but again pointless if almost home. There are too many places in Scotland where you have to lap up silly charging prices and/or gamble with CPS sites with poor records. Around Dundee and Perth is an exception thanks to Tesla.
I have been doing similar trips from scotland to leeds. I find Ionity are good locations especially recent new sites. The monthly subscription I take out in the summer months only. But then I have also driven to various parts of Europe using Ionity. A single charge can cover the monthly cost.
What's the source for the 50mpg average for an ICE? Seems pretty dubious to me... For the petrol/diesel cost, definitely think the service area cost is better comparison
I've yet to get 50mpg out of a tank of fuel ... admittedly I may be a little heavy footed and my most recently registered vehicle is a 09 reg (I had a 58 reg in 2012, but blown engines and gearboxs in a number of cars have resulted in me getting increasingly older cars since) So whilst an ev would cost less to run, the outlay to purchase is too high ... and when you have debts, borrowing to invest in solar or an ev isn't really an option, so you are left with higher running costs and thus less ability to pay down debts ... So whilst this video is interesting, I'm not sure the transition to evs is only hampered by inability to charge at home, but by the higher capital cost. I can see second hand evs have come down in price, but they still have a premium if you want more than a local runabout
I can't charge at home, when we got the car, the local Podpoint was 25p pkwh, it's now 62p. I've switched to using Ionity because of their passport, paying £10 per month gets me 43p pkwh. We fully charge the car once per week and I get an hour and a bit in a car park next to McDonalds.
I am a very new EV owner (Hyundai Kona 2023) and am so pleased with how economic it is to run especially after signing up to for Octopus Intelligent using our Ohme Home Pro charger. (Thanks Andrew for the referral share code giving me £50 credit which I have now received!). Very interesting video but not sure if I am understanding correctly! Does this mean I would be able to charge my Hyundai Kona at a Tesla charging station?? I thought they were for Tesla vehicles only. Would be great if you could let me know. Alison
Yes, they need to make their money back from the chargers they install, but they also need to have people actually using their chargers to get any return on their investment.
Thank you for this clear summary of why home vehicle charging is a must if EV's are to compete on running costs with ICE cars. That's just decided me to fit some sort of home charging when we invest in one. 😊
@@mdshovel I don’t know what model you have or replaced, but 43p per kWh works out, at around 3 miles per kWh with a recent EV in average use and moderate speed/heating/AC, to cost £9 to cover 62m/100km. At the current price of diesel of around £1.35, a vehicle averaging 50mpg (5.65l per 100km) would cost £7.63 or so to do the same. That doesn’t include the annual membership fee of the EV ‘clubs’ to get the lower rate. Also, any recent EV would face a significantly higher rate of depreciation than a comparable diesel.
It's the wild west out there with public rapid charging. The pricing is ridiculous in some cases and makes private ownership of EVs untenable if you can't home charge.
1.75ppm would be true if you plugged in from a 13amp wall socket..... but you have a charger, battery storage, solar panels and inverter to add to the price? not to mention the price of the car?
I’m on my 4th EV now , I’ve had an old Berlingo electric, 24kwh leaf , 40kwh leaf and now I have a LR model 3 . I’ve had no problems with either of them and with winter around the corner, just the preheat makes an EV worth while let alone the massive savings .
Doesn't the pre heat kill the battery completely and therefore any cost advantage? We've only had a couple of cold mornings so far, but my Mercedes EQB only mustered 1mpkWh for a 3 mile journey. Very depressing and dressing the winter.
I just searched for wholesale electricity prices. Currently 8p / kW. I assume VAT needs adding. But that is a huge difference form 80p/kW. If the companies make 50p profit per kW then it only takes 164kW per day (about 4 decent charges ?) for a year to break even. Assuming £30k setup cost.
As more chargers come on line, the more expensive it’s going to get, as the electricity network is not designed to deliver the current super chargers need, so the cost of installation grows. It’s fine for 50% of people who can charge at home, but your average EV’s range is somewhere between 180-250 miles, so if you go on a long journey, then you will have to use a public charger. Most people charge at service stations, because they can have a coffee and a rest while it takes 45mins to an hour to charge your car. I went from London to Manchester with my boss for work. He had an EV, I had a 1.0l petrol. I got to Manchester and back on £40 of petrol, he spend nearly £80 to charge publicity and was home nearly 2hours after me.
Great Stuff. There are two points: the companies have to add VAT on charging prices, and they are paying the cost of electricity in the UK which is artificially inflated by our mad pricing regime. I wonder if we subtracted those two whether we'd get to 'motorway petrol' parity on these Rapid and Ultrarapid chargers. Employers need to be subsidised to put in the infrastructure to allow any employees who drive an EV to slow charge at work, at cost. Even with our extortionate pricing regime this is is about 1/2 - 2/3 of the price of fossil fuel ( I know because I'm still 3pin charging pending a change of supplier and installation of proper smartmeter).
@@CaptainProton1 aren’t we building Hinckley C just off the Somerset coast? Well, we’re not investing - that’s true - it’s the French and Chinese, but a guaranteed price for generated electricity of £90/MW when it comes online in 2038 means we’ll be paying ten times for Hinckley C electricity when solar and wind will be £9/MW. Those ‘hippies’ knew a thing or two because the government doesn’t know what to do with the nuclear waste which hangs around for 350,000 years - killing everything around it - before it’s safe. Nope, it’s because business needs to profit from UK consumers.
These days I rarely use a rapid network, I charge at home overnight, my i3 Rex does most journeys I need on EV power. However now when I’m travelling a bit further than its range, I find it’s cheaper to complete the journey on Rex than use the rapid network. For me I find I’m fortunate to be able to do this, as it works well for me..
I don't know if its just the south west, but I've never seen prices under 79p per kwh, including on slow 7kw destination chargers, apart from the tesla network, and I've never succeeded in getting any of those chargers to work with my car(ioniq 38), it's just never detected when plugged in
Hi EVM. When I was at Everything Electric show a few months ago I challenged Osprey and they told me that they have to get a ROI to their equity investors and so they will charge as much as they can (the market rate) for as long as they can. It’s as simple as that. Also as you say it costs to install rapid DC chargers. Typical equipment such as Lidl’s ABB 50kw older style units cost £23k plus vat plus delivery and each need a 120A three phase supply which does not come cheap from the DNO’s. Thank goodness we can home charge like you at 7p/kwh.
If their prices were lower, they could encourage more EV and grow their profits on volume. 200 chargers making 10k a year £2m 1000 chargers making 5k a year £5m A crude example. Longer term if you gain a reputation as one of the best in terms of price and availability this is also worth something.
@@alexanderhughes1540 Hi. I agree entirely time will tell maybe some of the operators will go out of business or be bought by others. It’s early days yet and may end up like the “big 6” energy suppliers. It’s also very interesting to note when digging a bit deeper as to who owns particular charging networks……
Thanks for a nice clear video. For those who charge at fine rapid charging rates are essentially subsidised by ridiculously cheap home charging rates. I feel the big area where government should be helping is for those who cannot charge at home.
Hardly anyone in a city has home charging, I have to rely on a space outside my house and run a cable out the window......this happens rarely so I'm sticking with Hybrid PHEV for now
PHEV only make sense if people remember to charge them before each trip otherwise an ICE is more cost effective and environmentally friendly. Sadly most PHEV chargers are relying on regen.
One thing I’d 6:09 add is Tesla has chargers in some private car parks that charge extortionate fees for parking. Got caught out on a recent trip at Preston south, where I had no idea this was the case… £200 in parking “fines”.
Tesla have stated that their charging network is nut subsidised by the car business, and also that they are there to make a profit (and I believe this is included in their latest set of results). Don't forget it's not free to build a petrol station on the motorway, and also transportation of petrol and diesel to these services which isn't a one off in the way that installing cabling to the EV chargers. What you say also confirms that efficiency and a large battery are the way to go to avoid the need to charge away from home unless absolutely necessary. Lets hope the government don't add fuel duty to EV charger prices as we'd be looking at an additional cost there.
Couldn’t have put it better myself I’m saving an absolute fortune my break even point is 1 pppm mile that’s because I pay five people per kilowatt for electricity and my car does 5 mi./kW. That’s obviously when I’m not charging off the Sun for free I’m not being smug. It’s doable and it doesn’t cost that much really. At the same time I’d recommend utilising the heat pump Grant we’re paying 50 p per day to heat the house up of peak in the morning.
Did you say your parents were in Clacton (Essex) The Morrison superstore has fast chargers. IF memory serves there was a 150kw charger. There were a range of other chargers (12?) including some 7kw!!
Instavolt used to be my preferred chargers, always reliable, reasonably priced but they have since become one of the most expensive. Looking at how the company profits have increased over the last few years its pretty clear they are fully ripping off their customers
I still think service station charging is taking the P but thanks for explaining why, and as you say it should be compared to motorway petrol prices which are definitely a P take. I look at the cost over a whole year to evaluate how much my EV is to run and since most of my charges are at home, either on solar or Octopus Intelligent Go then I'm saving substantially over my ICE or even my PHEV I had before.
Hi EVM. So I agree in part where you say the rapid chargers are like service stations and yeah I get it petrol is well expensive there however remember that 45% of the country cannot charge at home and most of them are not going to have access to destination charging. So they are going to have to nip to tesco's and sit on a rapid charger and well lump it. So for example I go to Sainsbo's and get my petrol from there as they are the nearest place. They also have a bunch of rapid chargers. Now I am lucky I have my own drive so yeah I'd be charging 99% at 7p / kWh. If I didn't I'd be going to Sainsbo's to get my electrons while I'm shopping and my charging costs would be more than a petrol/diesel. So yeah super for 55% of households. Bad news for 45%
This is exactly the issue I see. If I travel a good distance to see family or friends I'll have to sit in a car park waiting for the EV to charge. It's just not something I want to do. As for the 45%, the government is pushing EVs but hasn't figured out what to do for the 45%. I won't hold my breath.
Exactly. There is a type of 'I'm alright Jack' snobbery from EV owners. 95%+ can home charge. Some (many) will be forced to use an EV work due to BIK advantage. For everyone that can't, it's nearly as expensive as a high mpg ICE, with the 'benefit' of being less convenient. How many happy non charge at home owners do you know, or have ever met? Our Nissan Qashqai 50mpg diesel currently cost £76 and gives us a solid 500 miles (50+mpg) When I looked at a long range MGZS EV, that supposedly did 276 miles with it's 72.6kwh battery. I assumed I'd get a solid 250 miles. So if you take the avg ( 44p kwh) uk public charging cost, it's about £68-69 to get the same 500 miles.
We now have 2 EVs, and home charging is great for everyday journeys, long journeys tbh we try and take train as it's easier and more relaxed than motorway miles and cheaper than both petrol and fast charging. Medium journeys hillwalking Scottish mountains I use charge place Scotland where I can as cheaper than other places (generally about £9 to charge my e-Golf.
Anybody else with an ev get a letter to say they would have to pay VED (car tax) from next year. Something like £190 per year for my Tesla. And meanwhile my wife’s diesel golf is only £25 per year. I’m sick of the government taking the piss.
Given OFGEM has a price cap for home electricity so why isn't there regulation of public chargers covering pricing, reliability, charger design (cables that actually comfortably reach charging ports), design of charging bays (often hopelessly narrow), safety (lighting, CCTV etc.) and accessibility for disabled drivers? Charge Place Scotland pricing is unbelievably complex with a poor track record for service, but there's no regulator or ombudsman to hold them to account. Something has to change if we are ever going to replace fossil fuels with electric.
Praise be, to the white board of truth... When you were younger did you imagine you would become a teacher. I always find the numbers interesting. Given the pricing, the more Tesla opens their network, the competitors will have to adapt their pricing.
Great video - thank you! Not many UA-camrs cover this subject. So shorter journeys are going to be cheaper with an EV, but a really long trip will be more, depending on where you can charge and how long you want to wait? I guess most EV owners will take this hit knowing that home charging is going to be a lot, lot cheaper for 90% of the time. Totally agree on the fast chargers - we need more of them everywhere!
But on longer journeys you get the first 250+ miles at 2p a mile if you can charge at home. So if you did a 400 mile round trip you'd only pay at the higher public charging rate for 150 miles. Someone else can work out the maths for the total cost and ppm 😂
I do Syd-Mel-Syd in Australia semi-regularly (610 mi / 980km each way). I start with 100% at home and end up almost empty on the return journey. I charge at home for 8c / kwh. My fist 450km and last 350km cost me 8c/kwh (100% charge at home leaving and 80% top up when I get home) - that's 800km at 1c per km = $8.00, the middle 1160km cost me 8.5c per km using fast chargers $ = 100 which is around what I pay on average for the 4 stops in total. Aggregate cost $108. E10 fuel (cheapest in Australia) = $1.90 a litre. $108 gets me 57 litres of E10. 1980/57 = 34km per litre = 98mpg (uk) - still far better off with my EV.
Pity we don't have 8c a kw in nz. Might be some at 12c but most around 20c or more plus our 15% gst. I am lucky that being off grid my home charging is free but limited to day charging. But works for us. Use our diesel on long trips. Cheaper and more convenient
Thanks for the video, it answered my question perfectly, as someone who has moved out of a house into a flat I cannot see the benefit if you take away the tree hugging angle (Which definitely has merit). There has to be something put out there for the other 45% of operators to make it more economical if we all are expected to change over.
Good video. Everyone has a slightly different story and I think most petrol cars would struggle for 50mpg but it's well within target for diesels and many will do a lot better. Electricity pricing for EVs seems like the Wild West in the UK. As an aside, the 'price cap' rates are based on the cost of gas despite gas making something like ~35% of eceltricity. We are not seeing the true cost of generation and reduction in electricity price from renewables and until we do people will not really switch grom gas heating to electricity, especially as the kWh cost massively favours heating with gas (7.5p / kWh) over electric (~32p / kWh). Anyway that's a different problem. The Wild West is that those with home charging will benefit to EV charge at ~7.5p / kWh when the 'forecourt' cost is more like 70 - 80p / kWh. In what other market is the price of 'fuel' so skewed between those with driveways and those without? There is also a problem with the ~20% inefficiency in AC charging, but I'll let that drop dfor now. Anyone who pays more for an EV over an ICE, and deals with both the increased cost and greater depreciation, and likely has a car that only lasts ~10y ish and has to charge at forecourts is being taken to the cleaners.
Guy I know charges his ev at free charges around Melbourne Australia. They aren't fast charges and only for a couple of hours at a time, but it gets him an extra 10%
If you "follow the money" you will see that there are large financial institutions that are behind the finances for many charge points, Black Rock for instance. They will tell the CPO what they need to charge to get their ROI.
As a smug ICE driver I have achieved 60mpg. Which carries over to 4.1 m/kwh. Still a saving of £25 a week And I still have to learn aggressive regen on zoe’s brake pedal.
Our Nissan Qashqai 50mpg diesel currently cost £76 and gives us a solid 500 miles (50+mpg) When I looked at a long range MGZS EV, that supposedly did 276 miles with it's 72.6kwh battery. I assumed I'd get a solid 250 miles. So if you take the avg ( 44p kwh) uk public charging cost, it's about £68-69 to get the same 500 miles.
@@stuartburns8657 the “if” is the thing. I use the public charging network about 8 times a year all other times I charge at 7p. Hence the £25+ savings per week.
@@SDK2006b Yeah. I previously had a TDI Q5. Official MPG was 55. I would drive in efficiency mode 99% of the time and I think I'm fairly conscious about how I'm driving - coasting where possible, leaving room to avoid constant brake/accelerate cycles, etc. I could occasionally get 55 or more on a long run, but long-term average over thousands of miles was 46.8.
Strangely enough, my Ionity price in the UK with BMW is 26p/kWh, for a £1.40/month fixed fee. I think the Ionity+BMW prices vary depending on when you signed up, and you then keep that price until you cancel+renew. Thus it can pay off to start a new contract when the prices drop.
Would be interesting to see a total cost of ownership comparison including factors like depreciation, servicing cost (including servicing/safety checks of home charger). Hard to do maybe, but might help people make decisions on car type.
Most Pod Points at lidl have been taken over by lidl and are cheaper if you charge from the lidl shopping app. 44p I believe near me otherwise 65p/kWh if not using the lidl app.
With the release of the new M3 RWD long range, this video was very interesting to me. I've had my S3 for 13 years and cus of the way I had it mapped and the fuel I now use, mine is around 23p per mile averaged. I still want a Tesla, however cannot charge at home and that really pisses me off. I'd be on the supercharger all the time. So annoying. I just don't have enough to move either. Anyway, great video, thx for the info 😄👍🏻
This summer we used ionity passport, which for roughly £10 a month gives you much cheaper charging. About 25p/kWh. And you can cancel it after only a month if need be.
My SLK has averaged 30 mpg over 15k miles and I always drive within the speed limit. I used to average 4 mpkwh with a Renault Zoe ZE40. In that case the Zoe is cheaper full stop however I charged but I was very bored with it. There are some other factors such as difference in road tax and the SLK unbelievably only costing half as much to insure,
Sounds like you where running a stupidly inefficient car then no? Our Nissan Qashqai 50mpg diesel currently cost £76 and gives us a solid 500 miles (50+mpg) When I looked at a long range MGZS EV, that supposedly did 276 miles with it's 72.6kwh battery. I assumed I'd get a solid 250 miles. So if you take the avg ( 44p kwh) uk public charging cost, it's about £68-69 to get the same 500 miles.
@@stuartburns8657 I don't actually care that my car is a bit thirsty, it is twelve years old, has been totally reliable and is barely depreciating. I sold the Zoe in 2020 and it's worth less than half what I sold it for now, that's way more than the cost of fuel. I like my SLK because it's convertible, I'll buy another EV one day but not yet.
@@robsmith1a It's a very subjective and personal thing obviously moving to an EV. We are holding onto the Nissan, it's in good health, long since paid off and we don't do enough miles now kids are at college to get value out of an EV, despite being able to home charge
@@simonrichardson3167 mine is an ORA funky cat with hideous depreciation, list price £32500 insurance value at one year old £13500, my mileage is 5K a year with no accidents or convictions and an OAP
There seems to me to be a Catch 22. Prices are high because there's no demand and there's no demand because prices are high. If they were well used I wonder what the price could be? I don't suppose it would compete with home charging but would it be able to beat petrol and diesel? Probably. As a worst case the electricity costs them 22p p kWh, so they need to charge around 55p p kWh to cover the overheads. There are quite a few DC chargers here in Bradford but they're almost always un used. An optimistic figure would be 2% use. If that were increased to 20% it might only need 6p p kWh to cover overheads and suddenly they could charge 30 p p kWh and comfortably beat fossil fuels. So in a sense the problem is that there's no real competitive pressure on DC charging prices.
Recently did a 1100mile return trip using Teslas network (for non-Tesla) and it was just seamless, fast, easy and so much cheaper. £8.99 for the month makes it 8-14p cheaper per kw. Sometimes as low as 35p/kw for my journey. Making it over half the cost of other networks. Total no brainer.
and imagine if you owned a Tesla!
@@mikeforwarduk Quite honestly, it has really made me want to get one!
How do you know, when you pull up to a Tesla bay, if it's available to non Tesla drivers?
@@mikeforwarduk
I have been driven in many Tesla Model 3 and Model Y taxis.
I am afraid they have all been relatively noisy and all had an uncomfortable ride.
I have also been driven in more than one Model S, which were much better, but ridiculously over-priced for the fit, finish and quality of construction.
Tesla may be 5 years ahead of 'legacy' car manufacturers in relation to EV 'tech' but they are 25 years behind legacy car manufacturers in relation to noise, vibration and comfort.
Unfortunately, Elon thinks he knows it all, however, he does not.
After having been driven around in several Teslas, I could not imagine owning one.
Hi EV Man!
You said that 50% to 55% of households can charge at home.
That leaves 45% to 50% . . . . about half of all households who can NOT charge at home.
I would love to switch to an EV but I am not prepared to be fu**ed up the a*se by cost of charging being 10 higher.
Living in London, I use public transport, I only drive 2,500 miles per year.
The largest cost of car ownership is depreciation and now, post-Covid, EVs are not doing great on that front.
If you can charge at home getting an EV will save you a lot of money. My car fuel bill has gone from approx £300 per month to about £30 per month. It saves about £3,000 per year or £30,000 over 10 years. I will save nearly double what I paid for the EV in 10 years.
If you can't charge at home there's not enough incentive, financially, to get an EV...... yet
Rubbish
How much is your insurance
@@davidlewis4399 how so?
@@vxnova1 my insurance went from £300 for a vauxhall Insigna, to £500 for a Model 3 Performance.
wait till they start wazzing up the price for chargin at home with smart meters.
Charging prices in the UK are nuts! Most expensive CPOs here in Norway are 43p/kWh (5.99 NOK). The better ones are around 36p/kWh (4 NOK). It's been down around 22p this summer.
Competition might bring the prices down eventually. We are a long way behind on the roll out. The rapid chargers are expensive to install so they need to get their money back while they can.
@@dougbamford I've been thinking about this for a while.
I think part of it is the weak Norwegian krone which make it appear cheaper. The NOK value has been cut in half in the past 15 years vs GBP, EUR and USD. The other is lower electricity prices on average. I've seen som home deals in the UK with 7p/kWh at night. That's like peak winter pricing here in Norway. We also have a 90% cap on the pricing here so when the price get up around 0.73 NOK (5.2p) the government covers 90% of the price above that. We do pay full 25% VAT on electricity though.
Average price in my area was just above 0.23 NOK/kWh in September. That's like 1.6p/kWh :)
Grid fee do come on top and varies by grid operators, of which we have roughly 80. I'm at 0.393 NOK/kWh 22-06 and 0.456 NOK/kWh in the day. So at night that would be 0.66 NOK/kWh (4.7p) + a peak demand fee per month. I'm in the 2-5kW bracket and pay 219 NOK (15.5 GBP).
Sensible analysis from EV Man, home charging is essential.
We charge at home for the vast bulk of our needs. We pay 7 pence/kWh overnight for 6 hours. It works out to marcinally less than 2 pence/mile. Together with our GivEnergy batteries used to power the house and our solar panels, we have our monthly electricity bill down to just below £36 per month - and that INCLUDES` running the car.
However, if you cross the channel, on the french auto-routes it's €0.56 (47p) for a fast-charger and that's expansive. Basically you're been ripped off in the UK
we in the uk are being ripped off for everything
@@egg399. Make Britan Great again with your own rules....go Brexit go go go...LOL
UK has become rip off country indeed. Staying in EU would have guaranteed caps on gas and electricity prices. Leaving EU was so unbelievable stupid and UK become wild west of the past. Electricity prices in UK are 4 times more expensive than the former British colony of India. Stupid people voting on stupid politicians and stupidly believing in what politicians tell them. To sum it up uk is now officially the stupidest country in the world
Don’t forget these prices include 20% VAT on Services Electricity whereas home charging is only 5%, to further incentivise EV adoption the UK Govt should make business Electricity at these services and street charging to 5%
No they should take Vat off home energy like it always was. Yet another con we just sucked up.
Energy suppliers could easy add the cost of charging to your domestic bill and charge 5%. The 5% rate isn’t for the premises, it is for the customer.
They won't do that dues to the fuel duty that they will lose when you switch to electric if anything it will increase
@@ianwatkins9609 Is that really the extra Incentivization that's going to convince all those 2nd hand ICE car owners, often in the price value of 7-12k to switch to an EV? (Those not able to home charge)
Personally I don't think it is.
Not when staring down the 2025 EV hate charter of £190 VED, expensive car supplement (which will impact the flow and uptake of 2nd hand car ownership) and the removal of the no congestion charge perks.
Lets not forget, we all have access to comparison websites, so many find EV insurance 15-30% more than their current ICE (huge variance here obviously)
Let's be honest, how many EV owners do you know who can't home charge.
And if you do know any how happy are they really?
Don't forget the £1.45 fuel price includes £0.64 fuel tax; therefore, it is currently an unfair comparison. Even with this tax burden, fuel is still approximately 70% cheaper than public charging.
This is why I bought a Plug-in Hybrid. Most of my journeys are local on charge-at-home electricity, but use fuel at 46mpg with short refill time for long journeys.
Arguably the worst of both worlds, still have to charge and have an ice engine to maintain,
I feel you made the best decision. I have a Toyota Prius phev and I charge it at home and the Tesco podpoint.
@vxnova1 I disagree with you. If you have an economical and reliable Toyota Phev, it's the best of both world. Yes , I have a gas engine to service but no range anxiety and I don't have to adjust my life towards the car. For example, on long road trips where I didn't charge the traction battery, I still get 60 - 70mpg. I have currently done 44,700 miles in the last 34 months and my avg are 95mpge and 4mpkwh. No issues what so ever, only annual service every 10k miles.
Charged up at Charnock Richards last night, got a max of 38kwh on gridserve and was £0.79 per kwh, ridiculous price for that speed and no one else connected to it
Great video thanks. FYI in London we have lamp post chargere run by Car.gy (yes that is how you spell it). They charge 59p/kWh (day) and 39p/kWh (night 00:00 - 07:00). I have at least 3 within 1/2 mile of my front door.
50 mpg sounds a bit optimistic for an average figure. Yes, there are cars that can do 60 or more mpg but there probably more cars which do rather less - particularly in real usage. Most of my ICE vehicles have done well under 50 mpg overall.
My diesel Renault Scenic does a good 50 - 53 mpg overall on average, and it's 15 years old. Towing a 1300kg caravan, I get 30 - 35mpg depending on route.
The wife’s Nissan Micra only does 37mpg average use! (Mostly local)
I had a Ford C-max diesel. Steady motorway got me 60+mpg. Typical value over the years I owned it was 52mpg. Worst I ever saw was 48 mpg.
( this was values for MPG reset whenever I refilled the tank)
For an AVERAGE? Not a hope in hell. That EV figure is also substantially higher than a Tesla's. Literally the first hit on google :
The average miles per gallon (MPG) for a new car in the UK is around 42 MPG. A car with 50 MPG or more is considered to have very good fuel efficiency.
Here are some average MPGs for different types of cars:
Petrol cars: Average around 36 MPG
Diesel cars: Average around 43 MPG
And people forget to compare them to a car with similar performance. A 1.4 petrol or 2ltr diesel does not 0-60 sub 6 seconds and an ICE car that does, will not do 50mpg.
In Canada I charge, out there, for free. Over 175,582km I have paid out of pocket $325.
At least treudu (sorry for spelling) has done something right.
@@egg399. I don't live anywhere near Trudeau. We hate him more than his Dad.
I have just pulled the trigger and purchased my first ev. With a ohme pod home charger. Thank you for the information
We have an Instavolt charger round the corner and it's always full of work vans, presumably using 'fuelcards'.
I typically charge at the Aldi across the road which is 25p/kwh. While i have off street parking, i work nights so can't take advantage of the cheaper rates. I do often dump the car at my mother's and charge at her's overnight at 7p
Look at Ovo Anytime Charging , I work odd hours and if i get home at 6am in the morning i can departure charging for 8pm for just 7p per KW hour. Then you do not need to rely on the cheap overnight charging hours.
Perhaps look at Octopus Tracker?
or consider a home battery?
No citing on the insanely optimistic 50 mpg AVERAGE? Let's look at the first result from Google:
The average miles per gallon (MPG) for a new car in the UK is around 42 MPG. A car with 50 MPG or more is considered to have very good fuel efficiency.
Here are some average MPGs for different types of cars:
Petrol cars: Average around 36 MPG
Diesel cars: Average around 43 MPG
And for EVs:
Latest statistics on average electric car efficiency in the UK. According to a study conducted by T&E (Transport and Environment) based on real-world data, it was found that EVs (Electric Vehicles) consume around 17.6 to 23.5 kWh/100km on a mixed driving cycle. This roughly translates to about 2.8-3.7 kWh/mile.
Now do the maths properly, both for motorway and urban driving. Let's say - the school run.
I do agree with you. Rapid chargers are really expensive to use as is the fuel price at motorway services. So when talking to people about this I always say you wouldn’t chose to fill your car with petrol or diesel at a motorway services if you don’t need to except when you are on that long journey. The same can be said with charging only use a rapid charger when there is no other option ie on that long journey. Every other time you charge at home we’re as you say it’s considerably cheaper doing so offsets the cost. There is one other option that maybe available if your stopping overnight find a hotel / b&b with overnight chargers at a considerably cheaper cost sometimes free if your lucky.
Thanks for the summary. It’s part why I’ve stopped using the leaf for long journeys - that and the gridserve Chademo policy. We still
use the leaf for local journeys, but I’ve bought a new (to me) petrol for long journeys.
Have you looked at planning your long journeys with the Leaf using A Better Route Planner? It may give you clever options.
For comparision in Australia...
Warm climate = greater miles per kwh , 4mi/kWh is a reasonable number (I get 5.7 lifetime in my model 3).
Regular fuel averages $1.90 a litre , @ 50mpg (uk) = 17.3 cents per mile
The average Tesla supercharger is 66c per kwh / 4 = 16.5c per kwh x 1.05 for charge losses x 1.05 for idle losses (drain while parked) = 18.2 cents per mile
My home charge cost is 8c per kwh, I average 5.7mi per kwh lifetime = 1.4c per mile x 1.1 for losses = 1.5c per mile.
you must drive extremely slowly! Most model 3's are around 265Wh/mi=3.77mi/kWh
Oil Company owned charges have an interest in keeping the cost high and they appear to like leaving their chargers in a broken state to add to the impression that the charging network is not ready yet.
MFG don’t…
Oil company chargers also tend to be a single charger at each location - maximising the chance of queuing.
Absolutely right. Considering their enormous resources BPPulse and Shell Recharge are absolutely hopeless and in my view intentionally so
Yep pretty much
@@JohnR31415mfg are a retailer not oil company. It’s in their interest to have people stop and shop at their forecourts.
CP Scotland has been rolling out for at least 12 years. They are now upgrading old chargers. In my area it’s 35p if I join the network as a member. As You say there is over 200, and some in very very remote places.
Amazing breakdown. You got a subscription from me on this video alone. So basically home charging is half cost of petrol diesel and tepid charging is doubled the cost of petrol diesel . Crazy
I charged yesterday in Perth, Western Australia. It was Aud$0.45 per kWh. Equals about £0.23 per kWh. Normally I charge from my solar which is free.
I love my EV - but if I had to use the charging network it would have been sold by now. There simply has to be a premium to going through the hassle of network charging - No-one would put up with it and pay as much or more for petrol/diesel that you can fill up and enjoy much bigger ranges. My 7p rate with Octopus Intelligent is an absolute must else down the road it goes (or not...)
Also, public chargers incur 20% VAT rather Domestic 5%. So not only are commercial per KwH more expensive, we are taxed more also for changing in public. So to get the effect of VAT difference knock 15% of all those public charging costs,
Or rather divide by 1.2 and multiply by 1.05. That 12.5% off.
You were pointing at the £1.45 per litre and said that people compare the highest price of EV charging with the lowest price of petrol. When did you film this? I filled up at my nearest petrol station for 128.7p per litre. Just "Googled" average price and it's £133.59.
Paying 70p to 80p to charge an EV is like paying say £15 a litre at motorway service station
Yeah - not paying that
If you do not have the ability to charge at home/drive - then don't bother with an EV
(EV owner btw, but I haven't used, nor do I intend to use any public, let alone rapid charger)
Probably 50% of motorists do not have the ability to charge at home easily, so EV's will only really be viable for less than half of the drivers - but alas this lost in the push to phase out ICE (and Hybrids) vehicles
He's using an average that includes petrol and diesel prices.
@@AdamAugustPhoto according to RAC's own site, Tesco forecourt prices:
Petrol is 132.4p avg with lowest 123.9p to 136.9p highest
Diesel is 137.1p avg with lowest 130.9p to 141.9p highest
So adding petrol/diesel avg then divide by 2 = 134.75p
Me thinks say the fuel data price used was from say September 1st, to slightly bolster the ICE pence per mile to parity at top of chart, else the top two rows would show ICE is cheaper from the outset, compared to public charging networks
Use a slightly higher ICE pence per mile, oh look it is about the same at the top of chart
Again, if you can't charge at home then an EV is perhaps not for you
Petrol nearest me was 139.9. I know it's not a cheap station but driving to a cheaper one would cost more. Rural prices tend to be higher the further you are from civilization.
@@matthewwakeham2206 Depends on the actual distance & the savings...
If you're saving 1p or 2p then not worth worrying about if you have to travel a little
If the difference is 5p per litre, 40 litres = £2 saving which would allow say a 8 mile = 16 mile round trip to fill up at a cheaper station.
Of course it will cancel each other out especially if you factor in your time taken.
But if you actually view the RAC site it lists loads of places selling diesel at £1.35 at all corners of the country, with London station selling petrol for 123.9p
Just ordered my first EV so this video is really useful. Thankfully I can charge at home so most journeys should be reasonably cheap. What’s the difference in rapid charging costs in the EU?
Good info, well presented.
How do these figures look if you're driving mainly around towns or doing short journeys?
It's nice to see someone showing the pricing from a point of view of someone who may not have access to home charging, perhaps you should do a video on destination charging, not that there's any of these in the area I live in, although I will never be able to buy an electric vehicle, I find these videos very informative
Here is my take on charging in the UK after having been here for 3 weeks. Its all over the place price wise. Ive paid 51p for curbside charging, I’ve paid 79p for DC charging at Gridserve and 41p at Tesla
Our Nissan Qashqai 50mpg diesel currently cost £76 and gives us a solid 500 miles.
When I looked at a long range MGZS EV, that supposedly did 276 miles with it's 72.6kwh battery.
I assumed I'd get a solid 250 miles.
So if you take the avg uk public charging cost, it's about £68-69 to get the same 500 miles.
Whilst EV sales are growing, private buyers are slowing and it's massively propped up by fleet sales.
That 45-50% who neither get the convenience nor cost advantages of home charging are subjected to a 2-tier pricing system.
2025 post expensive EV supplements, VED and lost of congestion charge perks is going to be tough.
You can see why for that demographic it's not a very attractive proposition.
I should add I based the public EV charging avg at .44p kwh
You made some good points, but EV servicing costs are low compared to Petrol and diesel .
@@proximaone1350 I'd be happy to wait until some independent data comes out on if they cost less maintenance wise.
The afore-mentioned Nissan, we have it serviced at a local garage (not a Stealership) for the princely sum of £120 pa.
We did take the decision to replace the timing belt + accessories earlier this year (£430) but other than the odd tyre replacement maybe we've been lucky.
Our annual mileage now kids at college down to a few thousand, and I'm sure at somepoint we'll need breaks and pads.
Nevertheless, at just over 72k in mileage (paid off obviously) we are planning to let the EV dust settle and maybe swap in 5 years.
Hopefully an EV
From my experience of a 60mpg diesel, unless your doing steady motorway miles then you will not get that mpg, I got 28-32 mpg around town.
Conversely EVs get better economy for urban and stop-start driving, so if that’s your driving style then EVs will look better.
@@monishbiswas1966 That is pretty much 95% urban, but in general I agree.
On a recent trip to London and back (300 mile RT) we avg'd 65mpg for the entire trip.
I do stick to speed limits though, so I Don't go mad lol
@@proximaone1350 the servicing costs mgh be lower, but the up front costs of purchase are much higher than ICE unless you want to buy chinese junk most EVs are 50% more expensive than their ice counterparts. also after 10 yrs the battery is close to been done, the same can not be said of an ice car. as thinbgs stand, because of battery tech limitations, this is never going to work as a true replacement for ICE, additionally the ammount of car battery fires are an increasing concern from many viewpoints, and flooding, lets not talk about what happens in major bad weather events
I drove from Kent, UK, to Greece in my Tesla model 3 in 2023 (actually to Venice because I took an overnight ferry from Venice to Greece). Total miles driven was 1002, and the total charging cost as it appeared on my bank statement (post fx) was £119. That is 11.9p per mile. This included a max blast on the German autobahn, and crossing the Austrian Alps. It took a relaxed 3 days. This number is 80% charge to 80% charge.
Make the most of it while you can as some ferry companies have already banned EV’s with more to follow
@cuedoscues3074 what ferry companies. Please list 3 to keep your credibility?
Please do a total cost of ownership review. Like for like vehicles ie New Tesla Model 3 VS BMW 1 Series, Used Tesla Model 3 VS BMW 1 Series. ect
Have you done a detailed video for non-Tesla charging using Tesla charges? Including which of the many Tesla apps to use and how to use contactless payment when there doesnt appear to be a payment pad on them.
MER have installed three 22kw charge points in Lindley near the Huddersfield Hospital charging 44p kw. However I went there to try them, as my Renault Zoe has a built in 21kw charger, the charge points are shown in their app but could I find any of the three! Nope!! No idea where they are hiding!
Thanks for counter-balancing the biased mainstream media and motoring channels
Let's assume that a high proportion of those using rapid chargers are doing longer trips, where the distance exceeds the range of the car. And assume we're comparing the price per mile of rapid charging compared to motorway fuel prices. There's still a problem. Last month, my wife took our MG5 from Fife to Leeds - 250 mile journey, 250 mile range. There was nowhere to hook into mains at the far end, so no access to granny charger prices. Destination charging was an option if she could leave the car overnight ... but that wasn't going to happen.
Her only option was to use rapid chargers. So we looked at the price of charging en route. The cheapest was at Jedburgh - 60p/kWh which wasn't too bad, but it was only a slow 50kW charger, and from there to Leeds and back would be 300 miles (plus some miles running around in Leeds). She could get to Newcastle - 69p is the cheapest we could find. Other than these, it would be a case of charging on the A1 / A1(M). On the way down, she used Scotch Corner Services - Gridserve, 79p/kWh. OUCH!!! (Yes, there's a discount if you use their app, but what's the point if your wife is only going to use the app once or twice and she objects to giving her personal & banking details to save a relatively small amount?) And yes, there's a Tesla station at Scotch Corner. But it's Tesla only, and in any case I struggle to find any Tesla chargers open to non-Teslas near any main road. In fact, unless you wanted to take the long way home from Newcastle (A1), there are NO Tesla chargers open to non-Teslas betwen Leeds/Harrogate and Perth/Dundee - so for us, this isn't an option whatever the price
On the way home, my wife had a 'confidence' top-up at Boroughbridge - BP Pulse, 79p/kWh - in a little town a few miles from the motorway. This was the best option within a reasonable radius of the motorway. Then she did a full charge at Scotch Corner Services - Gridserve again, also 79p/kWh. .
At the end of the day, the overall cost per mile for her trip was 13.5p/mile (280 at rapid charger prices, plus 250 at 8.95p overnight at home). So the cost was still much the same as (but no cheaper than) taking her petrol car. Taken over a year, the extra for rapid charging is insignificant, and running an EV is still a no brainer!
BUT HERE'S THE PROBLEM. Driving a petrol/diesel, you could look at the area around a junction on any arterial road and, in all likelihood, find a supermarket within a couple of miles. Go there and you can avoid paying motorway prices. BUT look for a rapid charger in the area around the same junction, and the prices are essentially the same as on the motorway. The fuel vendors say that they HAVE to charge inflated prices on motorways because they have to cover the exorbitant cost of having the filling station in the service area. Presuming the landlord makes similarly exorbitant charges for hosting a charging station, the £/kWh must cover those charges. But charging stations outside the service area presumably don't incur those costs (which is why stations are popping up near, rather than in, service areas). So why is there no differential in the price?
It's a pain when two of the open to all superchargers (Perth and Dundee) are at the start/end of one's journey and there are no open to all chargers near where you are going. The chargeplace Scotland charges around Angus aren't too bad (55p/kWh) for 50kw charging but again pointless if almost home. There are too many places in Scotland where you have to lap up silly charging prices and/or gamble with CPS sites with poor records. Around Dundee and Perth is an exception thanks to Tesla.
I have been doing similar trips from scotland to leeds. I find Ionity are good locations especially recent new sites. The monthly subscription I take out in the summer months only. But then I have also driven to various parts of Europe using Ionity. A single charge can cover the monthly cost.
What's the source for the 50mpg average for an ICE? Seems pretty dubious to me...
For the petrol/diesel cost, definitely think the service area cost is better comparison
That's UK mpg, not US mpg...
I've yet to get 50mpg out of a tank of fuel ... admittedly I may be a little heavy footed and my most recently registered vehicle is a 09 reg (I had a 58 reg in 2012, but blown engines and gearboxs in a number of cars have resulted in me getting increasingly older cars since)
So whilst an ev would cost less to run, the outlay to purchase is too high ... and when you have debts, borrowing to invest in solar or an ev isn't really an option, so you are left with higher running costs and thus less ability to pay down debts ...
So whilst this video is interesting, I'm not sure the transition to evs is only hampered by inability to charge at home, but by the higher capital cost. I can see second hand evs have come down in price, but they still have a premium if you want more than a local runabout
@@tomwinch9107 Tesla Model S £12k with 90k miles (nothing really) and free supercharging. Ford Fiesta prices
I used to have ionic hybrid delivering 65mpg, before that a Prius at 70mpg and before that a 307sw diesel delivering 70mpg
I can't charge at home, when we got the car, the local Podpoint was 25p pkwh, it's now 62p. I've switched to using Ionity because of their passport, paying £10 per month gets me 43p pkwh. We fully charge the car once per week and I get an hour and a bit in a car park next to McDonalds.
I am a very new EV owner (Hyundai Kona 2023) and am so pleased with how economic it is to run especially after signing up to for Octopus Intelligent using our Ohme Home Pro charger. (Thanks Andrew for the referral share code giving me £50 credit which I have now received!). Very interesting video but not sure if I am understanding correctly! Does this mean I would be able to charge my Hyundai Kona at a Tesla charging station?? I thought they were for Tesla vehicles only. Would be great if you could let me know.
Alison
Not all but there are a number of Tesla chargers across the country which can charge any car
Yes, they need to make their money back from the chargers they install, but they also need to have people actually using their chargers to get any return on their investment.
If Tesla chargers are available on your journey - use them.
Shame there aren't more
Unless your charge port is on the “wrong” side 😉
@@soapyfrog By a proper EV...Tesla
Thank you for this clear summary of why home vehicle charging is a must if EV's are to compete on running costs with ICE cars. That's just decided me to fit some sort of home charging when we invest in one. 😊
Pay per mile tax😊
Good comparison. I pay 43p at Ionity for a fee of £4.99 a month (Renault Mobize) .. I have a backup with BP Pulse at 57p
Is there any ionity next to your home or Workplace 🤨
@@niceboy60 yep - BP Pu;lse in the next village, Ionity within 10mils. No Tesla for 50miles
At that rate, EVs are more expensive than petrol cars with a big engine, in addition to the higher depreciation of EVs.
@@ComeJesusChrist it is £50 a month cheaper than my previous diesel.
@@mdshovel I don’t know what model you have or replaced, but 43p per kWh works out, at around 3 miles per kWh with a recent EV in average use and moderate speed/heating/AC, to cost £9 to cover 62m/100km. At the current price of diesel of around £1.35, a vehicle averaging 50mpg (5.65l per 100km) would cost £7.63 or so to do the same. That doesn’t include the annual membership fee of the EV ‘clubs’ to get the lower rate. Also, any recent EV would face a significantly higher rate of depreciation than a comparable diesel.
Why lamp post chargers outside your house can’t be set up to use your home tariff I don’t know - should be pretty easy.
It's the wild west out there with public rapid charging.
The pricing is ridiculous in some cases and makes private ownership of EVs untenable if you can't home charge.
Imagine how bad it will get once they add road tax to those prices. It is coming sooner or later.
1.75ppm would be true if you plugged in from a 13amp wall socket..... but you have a charger, battery storage, solar panels and inverter to add to the price? not to mention the price of the car?
I’m on my 4th EV now , I’ve had an old Berlingo electric, 24kwh leaf , 40kwh leaf and now I have a LR model 3 . I’ve had no problems with either of them and with winter around the corner, just the preheat makes an EV worth while let alone the massive savings .
Doesn't the pre heat kill the battery completely and therefore any cost advantage? We've only had a couple of cold mornings so far, but my Mercedes EQB only mustered 1mpkWh for a 3 mile journey. Very depressing and dressing the winter.
@@OasisParadise-dt9rh Those things struggle to get 3 mpkwh on a Sunday afternoon drive in summer .
I just searched for wholesale electricity prices. Currently 8p / kW. I assume VAT needs adding. But that is a huge difference form 80p/kW. If the companies make 50p profit per kW then it only takes 164kW per day (about 4 decent charges ?) for a year to break even. Assuming £30k setup cost.
30k is pretty optimisticz
Companies will ALWAYS charge as much as they can get away with to suggest otherwise is not the real world
Your liberal use of incorrect units put me on edge.
As more chargers come on line, the more expensive it’s going to get, as the electricity network is not designed to deliver the current super chargers need, so the cost of installation grows. It’s fine for 50% of people who can charge at home, but your average EV’s range is somewhere between 180-250 miles, so if you go on a long journey, then you will have to use a public charger. Most people charge at service stations, because they can have a coffee and a rest while it takes 45mins to an hour to charge your car. I went from London to Manchester with my boss for work. He had an EV, I had a 1.0l petrol. I got to Manchester and back on £40 of petrol, he spend nearly £80 to charge publicity and was home nearly 2hours after me.
Great Stuff. There are two points: the companies have to add VAT on charging prices, and they are paying the cost of electricity in the UK which is artificially inflated by our mad pricing regime. I wonder if we subtracted those two whether we'd get to 'motorway petrol' parity on these Rapid and Ultrarapid chargers.
Employers need to be subsidised to put in the infrastructure to allow any employees who drive an EV to slow charge at work, at cost. Even with our extortionate pricing regime this is is about 1/2 - 2/3 of the price of fossil fuel ( I know because I'm still 3pin charging pending a change of supplier and installation of proper smartmeter).
I’ve no home charger and use fast charging mainly Tesla or InstaVolt between 10pm-6am at 53p. Also use the plug surf card and app
Just got back from a trip to Zurich. Ionity in France is approx. €0.51c. Why not here?
Because we stopped investing in Nuclear because of hippies.
@@CaptainProton1 aren’t we building Hinckley C just off the Somerset coast? Well, we’re not investing - that’s true - it’s the French and Chinese, but a guaranteed price for generated electricity of £90/MW when it comes online in 2038 means we’ll be paying ten times for Hinckley C electricity when solar and wind will be £9/MW. Those ‘hippies’ knew a thing or two because the government doesn’t know what to do with the nuclear waste which hangs around for 350,000 years - killing everything around it - before it’s safe. Nope, it’s because business needs to profit from UK consumers.
These days I rarely use a rapid network, I charge at home overnight, my i3 Rex does most journeys I need on EV power.
However now when I’m travelling a bit further than its range, I find it’s cheaper to complete the journey on Rex than use the rapid network.
For me I find I’m fortunate to be able to do this, as it works well for me..
I would also argue that suppliers are also fixing prices on their local competition exactly the same as petroleum companies do.
And on short hops my 1800 Skoda does approx 16 mpg on choke - Renault approx 250-500 watts
I don't know if its just the south west, but I've never seen prices under 79p per kwh, including on slow 7kw destination chargers, apart from the tesla network, and I've never succeeded in getting any of those chargers to work with my car(ioniq 38), it's just never detected when plugged in
Hi EVM. When I was at Everything Electric show a few months ago I challenged Osprey and they told me that they have to get a ROI to their equity investors and so they will charge as much as they can (the market rate) for as long as they can. It’s as simple as that. Also as you say it costs to install rapid DC chargers. Typical equipment such as Lidl’s ABB 50kw older style units cost £23k plus vat plus delivery and each need a 120A three phase supply which does not come cheap from the DNO’s. Thank goodness we can home charge like you at 7p/kwh.
If their prices were lower, they could encourage more EV and grow their profits on volume.
200 chargers making 10k a year £2m
1000 chargers making 5k a year £5m
A crude example.
Longer term if you gain a reputation as one of the best in terms of price and availability this is also worth something.
@@alexanderhughes1540 Hi. I agree entirely time will tell maybe some of the operators will go out of business or be bought by others. It’s early days yet and may end up like the “big 6” energy suppliers. It’s also very interesting to note when digging a bit deeper as to who owns particular charging networks……
It's all about capitalism in Britain
Thanks for a nice clear video. For those who charge at fine rapid charging rates are essentially subsidised by ridiculously cheap home charging rates. I feel the big area where government should be helping is for those who cannot charge at home.
You found a working Geniepoint charger? That's quite the achievement.
My local ChargePlace Scotland charger is 20p a kWh
Hardly anyone in a city has home charging, I have to rely on a space outside my house and run a cable out the window......this happens rarely so I'm sticking with Hybrid PHEV for now
PHEVs are the way to go if it's your only car and you just don't want the hassle. 👍
The latest ones have 80 mile range too.
PHEV only make sense if people remember to charge them before each trip otherwise an ICE is more cost effective and environmentally friendly. Sadly most PHEV chargers are relying on regen.
The cheapest fuel in my area according to Google is £1.33.9 to £1.36.9 but I am surprised you went with 50 mpg that seems to me very optimistic
So is 3.5miles per kWh as an average.
Excellent breakdown on charging cost, having the ability to charge from home will be a premium in the future and increase property house value
One thing I’d 6:09 add is Tesla has chargers in some private car parks that charge extortionate fees for parking. Got caught out on a recent trip at Preston south, where I had no idea this was the case… £200 in parking “fines”.
Tesla have stated that their charging network is nut subsidised by the car business, and also that they are there to make a profit (and I believe this is included in their latest set of results).
Don't forget it's not free to build a petrol station on the motorway, and also transportation of petrol and diesel to these services which isn't a one off in the way that installing cabling to the EV chargers.
What you say also confirms that efficiency and a large battery are the way to go to avoid the need to charge away from home unless absolutely necessary. Lets hope the government don't add fuel duty to EV charger prices as we'd be looking at an additional cost there.
Great video
Couldn’t have put it better myself I’m saving an absolute fortune my break even point is 1 pppm mile that’s because I pay five people per kilowatt for electricity and my car does 5 mi./kW.
That’s obviously when I’m not charging off the Sun for free I’m not being smug. It’s doable and it doesn’t cost that much really. At the same time I’d recommend utilising the heat pump Grant we’re paying 50 p per day to heat the house up of peak in the morning.
Did you say your parents were in Clacton (Essex) The Morrison superstore has fast chargers. IF memory serves there was a 150kw charger. There were a range of other chargers (12?) including some 7kw!!
Instavolt used to be my preferred chargers, always reliable, reasonably priced but they have since become one of the most expensive. Looking at how the company profits have increased over the last few years its pretty clear they are fully ripping off their customers
I still think service station charging is taking the P but thanks for explaining why, and as you say it should be compared to motorway petrol prices which are definitely a P take. I look at the cost over a whole year to evaluate how much my EV is to run and since most of my charges are at home, either on solar or Octopus Intelligent Go then I'm saving substantially over my ICE or even my PHEV I had before.
Instavolt from 1st September have a night rate of 54p/kWh.
Apps like co-charger are also worth a look. Home owners offering others charging via an App.
Hi EVM. So I agree in part where you say the rapid chargers are like service stations and yeah I get it petrol is well expensive there however remember that 45% of the country cannot charge at home and most of them are not going to have access to destination charging. So they are going to have to nip to tesco's and sit on a rapid charger and well lump it. So for example I go to Sainsbo's and get my petrol from there as they are the nearest place. They also have a bunch of rapid chargers. Now I am lucky I have my own drive so yeah I'd be charging 99% at 7p / kWh. If I didn't I'd be going to Sainsbo's to get my electrons while I'm shopping and my charging costs would be more than a petrol/diesel. So yeah super for 55% of households. Bad news for 45%
This is exactly the issue I see. If I travel a good distance to see family or friends I'll have to sit in a car park waiting for the EV to charge. It's just not something I want to do.
As for the 45%, the government is pushing EVs but hasn't figured out what to do for the 45%. I won't hold my breath.
@@sargfowler9603 and your family and friends might get a bit annoyed when you started walking over with an extension lead and a granny charger 🤣
Exactly. There is a type of 'I'm alright Jack' snobbery from EV owners.
95%+ can home charge.
Some (many) will be forced to use an EV work due to BIK advantage.
For everyone that can't, it's nearly as expensive as a high mpg ICE, with the 'benefit' of being less convenient.
How many happy non charge at home owners do you know, or have ever met?
Our Nissan Qashqai 50mpg diesel currently cost £76 and gives us a solid 500 miles (50+mpg)
When I looked at a long range MGZS EV, that supposedly did 276 miles with it's 72.6kwh battery.
I assumed I'd get a solid 250 miles.
So if you take the avg ( 44p kwh) uk public charging cost, it's about £68-69 to get the same 500 miles.
We now have 2 EVs, and home charging is great for everyday journeys, long journeys tbh we try and take train as it's easier and more relaxed than motorway miles and cheaper than both petrol and fast charging. Medium journeys hillwalking Scottish mountains I use charge place Scotland where I can as cheaper than other places (generally about £9 to charge my e-Golf.
Anybody else with an ev get a letter to say they would have to pay VED (car tax) from next year. Something like £190 per year for my Tesla. And meanwhile my wife’s diesel golf is only £25 per year. I’m sick of the government taking the piss.
@@dirkdiggler69 yes, this has been in the world for at least the last 12 months if not longer.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but your wifes diesel is going up to £190 a year, too.
Given OFGEM has a price cap for home electricity so why isn't there regulation of public chargers covering pricing, reliability, charger design (cables that actually comfortably reach charging ports), design of charging bays (often hopelessly narrow), safety (lighting, CCTV etc.) and accessibility for disabled drivers? Charge Place Scotland pricing is unbelievably complex with a poor track record for service, but there's no regulator or ombudsman to hold them to account. Something has to change if we are ever going to replace fossil fuels with electric.
Praise be, to the white board of truth...
When you were younger did you imagine you would become a teacher.
I always find the numbers interesting.
Given the pricing, the more Tesla opens their network, the competitors will have to adapt their pricing.
We could only dream of 50mpg before we moved to an EV. Our Merc did 29mpg.
@@tokoloshimampara9932 Charge your ev with...petrol. It's like charging an ebike by pedalling :(
Great video - thank you! Not many UA-camrs cover this subject.
So shorter journeys are going to be cheaper with an EV, but a really long trip will be more, depending on where you can charge and how long you want to wait?
I guess most EV owners will take this hit knowing that home charging is going to be a lot, lot cheaper for 90% of the time.
Totally agree on the fast chargers - we need more of them everywhere!
But on longer journeys you get the first 250+ miles at 2p a mile if you can charge at home. So if you did a 400 mile round trip you'd only pay at the higher public charging rate for 150 miles. Someone else can work out the maths for the total cost and ppm 😂
@@DiscoDesW Totally. Probably 500 miles or so!
I do Syd-Mel-Syd in Australia semi-regularly (610 mi / 980km each way). I start with 100% at home and end up almost empty on the return journey. I charge at home for 8c / kwh. My fist 450km and last 350km cost me 8c/kwh (100% charge at home leaving and 80% top up when I get home) - that's 800km at 1c per km = $8.00, the middle 1160km cost me 8.5c per km using fast chargers $ = 100 which is around what I pay on average for the 4 stops in total. Aggregate cost $108.
E10 fuel (cheapest in Australia) = $1.90 a litre. $108 gets me 57 litres of E10. 1980/57 = 34km per litre = 98mpg (uk) - still far better off with my EV.
Pity we don't have 8c a kw in nz. Might be some at 12c but most around 20c or more plus our 15% gst. I am lucky that being off grid my home charging is free but limited to day charging. But works for us. Use our diesel on long trips. Cheaper and more convenient
Thanks for the video, it answered my question perfectly, as someone who has moved out of a house into a flat I cannot see the benefit if you take away the tree hugging angle (Which definitely has merit). There has to be something put out there for the other 45% of operators to make it more economical if we all are expected to change over.
Public charges have become a rip-off just like motorway service stations, 79-85p a kw
Good video. Everyone has a slightly different story and I think most petrol cars would struggle for 50mpg but it's well within target for diesels and many will do a lot better. Electricity pricing for EVs seems like the Wild West in the UK. As an aside, the 'price cap' rates are based on the cost of gas despite gas making something like ~35% of eceltricity. We are not seeing the true cost of generation and reduction in electricity price from renewables and until we do people will not really switch grom gas heating to electricity, especially as the kWh cost massively favours heating with gas (7.5p / kWh) over electric (~32p / kWh). Anyway that's a different problem. The Wild West is that those with home charging will benefit to EV charge at ~7.5p / kWh when the 'forecourt' cost is more like 70 - 80p / kWh. In what other market is the price of 'fuel' so skewed between those with driveways and those without? There is also a problem with the ~20% inefficiency in AC charging, but I'll let that drop dfor now.
Anyone who pays more for an EV over an ICE, and deals with both the increased cost and greater depreciation, and likely has a car that only lasts ~10y ish and has to charge at forecourts is being taken to the cleaners.
Guy I know charges his ev at free charges around Melbourne Australia. They aren't fast charges and only for a couple of hours at a time, but it gets him an extra 10%
At 4:15 of the video why did you not include the Tesla charging price for Tesla's? They are the most popular model of BEV after all.
If you "follow the money" you will see that there are large financial institutions that are behind the finances for many charge points, Black Rock for instance. They will tell the CPO what they need to charge to get their ROI.
As a smug ICE driver I have achieved 60mpg.
Which carries over to 4.1 m/kwh.
Still a saving of £25 a week
And I still have to learn aggressive regen on zoe’s brake pedal.
I remember when I had a 520d - I could do a journey at 68mpg, but the average over 36k miles (3 years) was 48mpg
Our Nissan Qashqai 50mpg diesel currently cost £76 and gives us a solid 500 miles (50+mpg)
When I looked at a long range MGZS EV, that supposedly did 276 miles with it's 72.6kwh battery.
I assumed I'd get a solid 250 miles.
So if you take the avg ( 44p kwh) uk public charging cost, it's about £68-69 to get the same 500 miles.
@@stuartburns8657 the “if” is the thing. I use the public charging network about 8 times a year all other times I charge at 7p. Hence the £25+ savings per week.
@@SDK2006b and what does the guessometer say in an ev. You can hypermile in anything.
@@SDK2006b Yeah. I previously had a TDI Q5. Official MPG was 55. I would drive in efficiency mode 99% of the time and I think I'm fairly conscious about how I'm driving - coasting where possible, leaving room to avoid constant brake/accelerate cycles, etc. I could occasionally get 55 or more on a long run, but long-term average over thousands of miles was 46.8.
Yep - Ionity for me (BMW) is 34p kWh
Strangely enough, my Ionity price in the UK with BMW is 26p/kWh, for a £1.40/month fixed fee. I think the Ionity+BMW prices vary depending on when you signed up, and you then keep that price until you cancel+renew. Thus it can pay off to start a new contract when the prices drop.
Would be interesting to see a total cost of ownership comparison including factors like depreciation, servicing cost (including servicing/safety checks of home charger). Hard to do maybe, but might help people make decisions on car type.
maintenance for EV is minimal
Evpoint 50kW chargers are only 55p /kWh
Most Pod Points at lidl have been taken over by lidl and are cheaper if you charge from the lidl shopping app. 44p I believe near me otherwise 65p/kWh if not using the lidl app.
Should also have included typical cost for petrol and diesel at motorway services. But still probably more expensive to charge EVs that way.
With the release of the new M3 RWD long range, this video was very interesting to me. I've had my S3 for 13 years and cus of the way I had it mapped and the fuel I now use, mine is around 23p per mile averaged. I still want a Tesla, however cannot charge at home and that really pisses me off. I'd be on the supercharger all the time. So annoying. I just don't have enough to move either. Anyway, great video, thx for the info 😄👍🏻
This summer we used ionity passport, which for roughly £10 a month gives you much cheaper charging. About 25p/kWh. And you can cancel it after only a month if need be.
Where are you getting 50 mpg on the ICE vehicle? Here in the US average vehicle efficiency is less than half of that.
UK gallon is different to US gallon. Hence why people need to switch to metric :)
My SLK has averaged 30 mpg over 15k miles and I always drive within the speed limit. I used to average 4 mpkwh with a Renault Zoe ZE40. In that case the Zoe is cheaper full stop however I charged but I was very bored with it. There are some other factors such as difference in road tax and the SLK unbelievably only costing half as much to insure,
Sounds like you where running a stupidly inefficient car then no?
Our Nissan Qashqai 50mpg diesel currently cost £76 and gives us a solid 500 miles (50+mpg)
When I looked at a long range MGZS EV, that supposedly did 276 miles with it's 72.6kwh battery.
I assumed I'd get a solid 250 miles.
So if you take the avg ( 44p kwh) uk public charging cost, it's about £68-69 to get the same 500 miles.
@@stuartburns8657 I don't actually care that my car is a bit thirsty, it is twelve years old, has been totally reliable and is barely depreciating. I sold the Zoe in 2020 and it's worth less than half what I sold it for now, that's way more than the cost of fuel. I like my SLK because it's convertible, I'll buy another EV one day but not yet.
@@stuartburns8657 I forgot to add that your points are correct
@@robsmith1a It's a very subjective and personal thing obviously moving to an EV.
We are holding onto the Nissan, it's in good health, long since paid off and we don't do enough miles now kids are at college to get value out of an EV, despite being able to home charge
There’s a couple of Tesla superchargers open to all CCS cars charging 90p at “peak times”. Havant & Tottenham
Tesla Tottenham is no longer open to all. EDIT - It's still showing as open to all in the App.
@@DiscoDesW I believe it’s changing to Tesla only in the near future
something else to consider is depreciation and insurance cost, my EV insurance was £550 last year, it is over £2000 this year for the same cover
weird, my Tesla model y dual motor renewal is £720 for private use, 8k miles per year. It's a similar figure to last year.
@@simonrichardson3167 mine is an ORA funky cat with hideous depreciation, list price £32500 insurance value at one year old £13500, my mileage is 5K a year with no accidents or convictions and an OAP
There seems to me to be a Catch 22. Prices are high because there's no demand and there's no demand because prices are high.
If they were well used I wonder what the price could be? I don't suppose it would compete with home charging but would it be able to beat petrol and diesel? Probably. As a worst case the electricity costs them 22p p kWh, so they need to charge around 55p p kWh to cover the overheads. There are quite a few DC chargers here in Bradford but they're almost always un used. An optimistic figure would be 2% use. If that were increased to 20% it might only need 6p p kWh to cover overheads and suddenly they could charge 30 p p kWh and comfortably beat fossil fuels. So in a sense the problem is that there's no real competitive pressure on DC charging prices.