The Secrets of Dragons - Warhammer 2 Guide
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- Опубліковано 9 вер 2024
- How to use Dragons in Total War: Warhammer 2! Train them. Tame them. Treat 'em right.
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This is the only game ever made where after hundreds of hours, every video I watch I go "oooh... i didnt know that"
That's actually a bad thing. It indicates that Total War does a poor job of training the player to play the game.
I remember way back the days Medieval 1Total War there were fully 7 tutorials for battles alone. Now, thanks to some game dev genius, who said 'tutorial levels are bad,' devs like CA shy away from tutorials and players end up missing out on important aspects of the game.
@@Aethgeir Also is there anywhere in game that it displays the information from 12:35? Sure the game gives you description like "good against x, weak against y" but I'd love to see the actual stats without having to either guestimate through testing or wait for someone to datamine the info.
@@Wolfgang9Hype Nope, all that stuff has been ferreted out by moders, as far as I know.
So true
Ever play Paradox games? You will still be learning new things after 1000 hours.....
The reason sun dragon's have higher charge bonus Is, they are quicker tempered and a little faster to react then the older dragons. In the table top this was represented by them having higher iniative which determined when they got to attack in close combat.
no its because they are red
@@KingfisherMC red goes faster.
The red comet approves
"The Secrets of Dragons" That's a title cool enough to be a book series.
They are actually very cute lizards used to be smart but not anymore. Even flame wizard catch them and keep them as a mount like they are some kind of pokemon.
Or a Dwarf Fortress site name
50
@@LDProductionsClass tl0
I5lpl
Watching a dragon run away from Skaven is really messing with my head
Watching a Dragon die to a few rats would mess with it more.
Have you ever seen a rat infestation?
You would run away too.
@@HellecticMojo Have you ever seen a dragon infestation?
@@ryangallant1886 yes. Reign of Fire was a mediocre movie
@@HellecticMojo Oh, it's a movie? I was only picturing just a bunch of dragons like in TWWH.
holy shit that's one solid pack of useful info, almost half an hour aswell. Zerkovich you are the best
On ranged units: you can actually juke most arrows, as they aren't fast enough to hit the dragon before it changes direction, so dragons can attack even from the front. The obvious cost is that you can't micro other units as you do this.
Gunners will shred them though, as will anything with a fast projectile.
Single model heroes on Pegasi, yes, easy to dodge volleyfire. Dragons will take arrows and bolts pretty much regardless, altho with competent micro, you *can* dodge a fair amount of fire.
The best place to use breath attacks is on walls, the high angle makes it hit every model down the line, it can wipe multiple units in one breath.
I die a little inside whenever I see good players waste their breath attacks by hitting spread out units at the front, do like 200 damage and then saying “WOW LOOK AT THAT DAMAGE”
Terrorgeist breath attacks works best if you use it against the enemy general, just position directly over him and spit on him. It's an one shot.
that was a really good play there with the paladin and the hippogryphs. I like how you yeeted one of the hippogryph models as retaliation afterwards too. wp
Love your work Zerk. Despite all of the great TWWH channels out there that I consume, no one does guides and deep dives like you. Keep it up mate.
Almost all of this is also good advice for DnD dungeon masters!
Nope, in D&D dragons have an entire pannel of attack moves that covers all angles : bite and claws on the front of course, but on the side they have the wing strike and behind the tail attack, a D&D dragon has virtually no blind spots where you can attack it safely
The real secret of dragons? That after 8 seasons, they really have no influence on the plot or world development. Oh, they're going to say they're the key to everything, but they're just going to either die unceremoniously, or just bugger off with no explanation in the end. Don't get your hopes up.
Don't make me relive that.....
This still hurts me. Poor Rhaegal and Viserion.
@@co-bruh1423 NEVER FORGET!
@@Starstreak170 How about poor Drogon? Just going to walk the world alone until he dies? I've played enough D&D to know what happens to wandering wyverns who like to eat shepherd's flocks.
you are talking about what ? dragon in Warhammer do a lot of things affect the world in the beginning of it
Good explanation video. They are shock units not front line units. Id really like to see a tier list of magic. What spells are worth there cost, worth overcasting. Best lores of magic. And what spells combo together like net of amintok and banishment
Gobbo king has some good videos on these subjects
I would think that a lore with good armor debuffs would be great for a sun dragon, something that reduces weapon damage would be great for all dragons when they charge in, and a lore of life wizard will always be a great choice
very nice to see the battle analysis from two perspectives (battle cam and then map view), looking forward to more vids like this one master Z!
I love this game. The amount of variation in each units dynamics feel so natural, and almost a side effect from being in a game like this
26:33. Watching that rat go "poof", delightful! Thank you for this exceptional tactical treatise.
What a great thumbnail Zerk. Good choice.
Pfff
100,200,300,400,500,1000 hours,it's only getting better. This game is magical.
Really grate video
But I think you have missed one important trick about using Moon/Star Dragon's breath on LSE. The closer your Dragon is to the target, the more projectile, meaning damage it will hit. You did mention that range/calibrate mechanic but didn't show how to maximize the damage from that mechanic. And yes, the different between between 20 meters or 10 meters away or right on top of the target is not something to brush off
Before using the breath attack you should lock down the LSE temporary (either by net or surrounding them)
Then you position the Moon/Star Dragon Right Above that LSE, with this trick 90 to 100% of the Breath Attack projectile will hit that LSE, which will deal really big damage.
Yeah the old Teclis net with kindleflame, breath attack 1-2 punch
12:05
when there is a dreadfully deadly dragon in front of you, but your nose is itching :D
Mmm what a coincidence that I just started Imrik campaign. First time using elves and a dragon. Thank you good sir.
Imrik campaign OP, nerf Imrik campaign.
Seriously it's not even funny. Send imrik in with all his fire resist, then blast the mob that clumps on him with your fire mage spells.
His skill trees just keep amplifying all the fire power.....oh and you get quest dragons. Redonk.
@@ManDuderGuy imrik is really powerfull but figthing in the mountains with him is painfull.
One thing to point out about the frost Wyrm is that it has the most cost-effective breath attack of them all. Another youtuber did testing on this and the Frost Wyrm performed really well for the cost
Hydra breath attacks are really nice because of the low angle. You will often hit a unit behind the enemy you are targeting.
That flying animation felt cursed, the dragon seems to rise while it is raising its wings. Are they supplementing their flying with magic?
Edit: I wrote this after watching the prone flying animation of the yellow one, at the start
Was just thinking the same. The animations are broadly really good in TWWH but watching dragons in slow motion really highlights the jankyness.
Most fantasy series that try to explain the flight of dragons tend to rely on magic in it. In the first place they'd need a lot bigger wings to support their weight, scientifically speaking.
That's exactly what they do: all magical beasts fly using the Winds of Magic, and cannot do so without it. That's also why it's functionally impossible to get them to breed in captivity, as the wings atrophy if they don't learn to use the winds to fly.
@@Pitrah Yeah... the wings would be absolutely humongous, if they would actually be able to support the weight of those tanks. Common theme in almost anything with wings, at least when they're not birds
Dunno, the up/down of the body relative to the wings might be off by a couple frames but it looks about. The body begins to accelerate up as the wings begin to accelerate down. Ultimately who cares though, its a dragon and the modelling/animation is overall good imo.
This is a really good video, I didn't know about prolonged combat killing dragons!
Me looking 30 min video before I start : It's a bit long maybe ?
Me 10 sec before video end : Why it's ending now ??!
Love your videos like that :D
With single entity monsters, being just above the entity and using the breath attack can do devastating damage
And I was thinking. Why almost 30min to explain how to use a dragon… now I see, incredible explanation, full of details with numbers and technical gameplay. Just fascinate, because I love dragons and CA did a beautiful display of them.
Keep the good work 🎉
Nice guide! Ty for this advices, especially about dragons' breath.
I was thinking for a long time about lore : why dragons, who lived in a warhammer ice age world with lower gravity, could cool themselves in volcanic caves. Eventually I have read a few papers in the field of speleology. The secret is strange, but simple: when cave is located on mountain slope and have at least 2 entrances, there will be wind taking out the hot air from the bottom of the cave to the entrances. In real-world Crimea temperature can easily reach +40 Celsius degrees, but in upper parts of mountainous caves it is already +11, at the bottom of caves it is +8. That`s why dragons actually hide from heat amidst hot regions.
Couple of additions.. Imrik is my fav campaign. 1) You CAN hit moving targets with breaths.. you want to be behind the unit shooting with their movement.. the breath always seems to overshoot, so the units will keep walking into the breath. I find that being out at max range at about a 45deg angle behind the unit is really nice. 2) Use terrain to your advantage. Shooting across a hump like a gate from along a wall from max distance yields HUGE hits.. breathing long distance down along the length of walls in general is great. 3) Dragons fight amazing on walls, as they don't get surrounded, they get nice charges on landing, and they can take off at will. 4) Putting a couple frost phoenixes in for the melee debuff is nice.
Excellent resume, I learned a lot.
Made recently a 9 terrorgheists 9 vampires on flying horses within Isabella army (12th army made on 14 total, turn 145 in VH/VH, so not really essential, just for fun), and she is also on flying mount ofc.
Now I know how to use them well, specially surprised about breath attack of Terrorgheists, that changes the way I will use them, vs large or monsters, where I would use them instinctively on infantry at base.
Same about calibration, with terrorgheists on monsters, closer is better...
So very useful indeed.
Thx for content 👍
Great video!!
Holy crap, this guide helped me a ton!!!
Meticulous guide as usual and so many things we can pick up on!
Besides what's in the video, I've found dragons are best when ganging up and flanking. That is because they can get stuck in a unit, so when one finish their (that's right, non-binary until proven otherwise) charge, another one can charge in and allow the 1st to take off, recycling their charge (or escape other pursuers) much quicker. If you cannot afford multiple dragons, other flying units or chariots accompanying them should help them as well. I really like bringing a frost phoenix with dragons anyway because of the aura which just preps the meat for dragon charges; Great eagle can be the meat shield or sacrifice if you're in a pinch; or the "cheapest" option is Life Mage on a chariot (because you need a Life Mage in armies with dragons anyway), but needs much more micro because you also need to keep her alive, and she cant move in sync with dragons as well as other flying units.
This is what I wanna know since the beginning of playing this game. It's absolutely clear thank you so much😄😄
It's nice to see an in depth analysis of something we all probably had an instinctive understanding, but tend to misuse due to misinformation. Loved it! Can we get one for chariots and one for phoenixes as well? Especially with chariots, I never feel like I'm using them right, since I'm more used to Rome 1 and 2 style hehe.
Awesome indepth Video 👍
1 litte Detail i might add is, that the angle of the terrain can also influence the breath attack e.g.
If a infantry unit is on a slope down away from the dragon the breath attack can be lined up with almost the entire unit and therefore deal even more damage.
Kinda works the same as the distance from a unit.
This also is nice when attacking units on walls as they ar roughly on the same height as the dragon and therefore also take a lot of damage.
On walls, lining up the breath attack with the unit is a little bit more difficult bc you have to be at a corner/end of the walls so the dragon is in line with the wall but not over a wall.
Very good video, I realize I don't know much about dragons even after two years of playing this game. You are the best sensei in WH2 mister.
This is a wonderful video. Thank you!
Another reason to go for a vertical angle on the breath against SEMs is splash damage. Even if a projectile doesn't quite hit, if you are breathing at a vertical angle and the projectiles hit the ground next to it your target will still at least suffer the explosion damage. If you do it from further away a miss is just that, a miss and it's not gonna do squat unless there just so happens to be another target behind the thing you actually wanted to hit.
Nice primer on dragons. Good to see my own thoughts are proven out.
Wow I made so many mistakes with dragons in my High Elf campaign, I now realise! Really useful stuff, thank you.
Thanks for explaining terror routing. I've never known for sure how it works!
It would be cool if lord on a dragon counted as seperate beings, like when u take out the dragon the lord continues on foot
And same with horse or any other mount. Even if lord after loosing his mount, will have 30% health, still will be cool.
i mean that would just make foot characters obsolete at that point
good idea in theory but in practice creates way more balancing nightmares than its worth
@@caelestigladii "cries in dwarf"
@@thehistorians5231 im just saiying it would be cool :p
foot lords could still be a thing if you need the money elsewhere tho
Thanks for the vid man, that was helpful
Thank you sooo much for this videos, learned a lot of Dragons, I think I can start use them properly
Good video, I increased my knowledge about TTwarhammer once again
What an amazing video. Thank you Zerkovich, it was very interesting.
Accuracy always drops off with distance, but drops off *significantly* after hitting the calibration distance value. If you want to maximize the value of your dragon's breath attack, you can have the dragon hover directly over the target you want it to breathe on, and you're almost guaranteed that most, if not all of the missiles will hit, even against smaller targets. Using a net ability is a particularly good way to set this up.
With the breath attacks, I find that the star dragon works just as well against infantry (and even better against armoured infantry) than the sun or moon dragons. In MP people don't tend to bunch up their units into massive mobs (specifically to avoid AOE damage from things like spells, artillery or dragon breath) and when they engage, the spread into battle lines or take 1v1 engagements. This means you usually have one or two units to target that are in a rough line, and with decent positioning, the damage difference isn't that big between the dragons, as it's only really their width that is different. I would venture that the star dragon breath is a better choice than moon or sun in every situation, as they have the added benefits of being better (but still not great) against large single entity units, and they cut through armour much better, meaning they can go after valuable enemy infantry more effectively. Add into this their superior melee stats, and you can't argue they are all-round the best. If cost is a factor, go for moon though.
best way to use dragon breath against a single entity is netting the target in place, flying directly on top, and spitting away...
This is a brilliant guide, great work, thank you
Another, great, super informative, vid. Enthusiasm appreciated, thanks Z
🐲
one thing i wished you did cover as well "great guide still" that you SORT OF glossed over
is the star dragons breath in particular and why its so deadly
when you mentioned how the closer you are to the target of the breath the more damage it does you were close to uncovering the secret of the star dragon and that is its ability to straight up delete characters on foot/horse and do absurds amounts of damage to large targets
because of the already low spread and high damage fly a star dragon DIRECTLY above a single entity unit anything from a lowly empire captain on foot to a necrosphinx and then have the breat attack of the star dragon go directly downwards and you can pretty much nuke single entities
18:10 try putting the dragon directly above first
Delightfully comprehensive.
No Empire soldiers were harmed in the making of this video.
Skaven on the other hand...
Now we just need to learn how to train them!
Loved the video, you are master od these tutorials, thank you!
I knew all these things already but it was a nice video to watch nonetheless
this was actually pretty informative, thank you
Watching this I can't help but feel that the dragons are backwards, with the youngest dragons being able to cause damage to large groups and the most powerful star dragons being snipers. Intuitively I would have thought the most expensive one would be for burning whole cities.
Yea but being able to murder a commander really quick is far more valuable.
Here after the Nuln patch - crimson laser OP af
Dragon: stronk
3 units of dogs: hehehehehehehehe
Superb video! Thank you for making this and for sharing your wisdom and knowledge 🙂🙏🏻
Great video mate, very enlightening.
Great Video and thanks again for new insight in some of the mechanics in TW: WII.
6:50 dragons should have -40 in the back or even -20 cuz they're known for tail swiping
That makes sense on paper, but the truth is, just about everyone nowadays knows they have to watch the fucking tail; if they get swiped into the welp cave that's a 50 dkp minus.
It look kinda janky when the fire materializes out of air instead of their open jaws. Come on CA.
Anyway apparently Chaos Dragon and Frost Wyrm mounts don't have the animation where they leap forward into combat. Just an ood difference that affects their performance for better or worse depending on the patch. The recent mass affects this.
Let’s be honest, unless your making a video like this, are you really going to be paying that much attention to attack animations? No, your gonna be focused on micro-man lol no need to be so asinine when CA has made such a good game
@@widdershins5383 it seems UA-cam deleted my reply or something. Anyway you will feel different about the animations when it actually affects the outcome of your battle. Dragons that have the leap attack animation can get stuck in the lastest patch in the centre of a pool of troops, which means they won't be able to get out due to the mass changes. In the previous patch however it helped them get out of crowds by leaping out of them.
In addition: 1. Heal your dragons using mages, greatly increasing their stayong power. 2. Send them round the flank to destroy isolated enemy artillery or leaders in enemy rear..
What a great video! Now I understand why I'm still playing the Imrik Campaign and still getting my ass kicked....
I'd absolutely love a redo of flying units for game 3. Removing hover for a lot of units would be great, forcing them to circle and keep moving. Allowing units to almost land, pick up a dude, and throw them would be awesome (probably as a finishing move if they one-hit someone). Make them truly mobile foes, which would definitely increase the deadliness of dragons (and probably their cost too). Make air fights truly dynamic and have them moving around, rather than just hovering in one spot in the air.
@@caelestigladii The idea then would be to make air units more expensive, and more vulnerable in prolonged melee.
Well done, sir.
half hour of zerk! oh my! :D
Well im glad i saw this... ive been using a star dragon on my lord to blast infantry and i was getting confused why it was sucking so much lmao
This is my favorite video on youtube
That’s not something I ever expected to hear, sniper artillery lol what a time to be alive lol
Wow its helpful! Always want to use a dragons in pvp
I didn't know breath attacks used projectiles I thought it just did damage in an area so I thoguht more area = better. I don't mind sending my dragons in to prologued melee against mid tier non anti large melee infantry or missile infantry if it's on the flank and my own melee units are engaged, so the draogn isn't attacked from the back. So after I terror rout 3 units, I feel free to use the 4th charge to charge and stay.
I really wish the game told you this somewhere. Well, guess thats what we've got him for.
Great video
Thanks for the tips 😁😁😁😁😁😁😁
I was always curious how good are the dragons against other single large monsters on a duel. You see according to the lores they seem to be nearly unbeatable.
There's a reason there are no dragons in Lustria...
Man I am thirsting for some dragon action now
I am an expert with breath attacks. Every morning.
High AP damage AND poisonous
Zerk, the melee defence is utterly unknown to me, and really a game-changer! Thank you. This should maybe be addressed in some sort of tutorial... Please ask if there is a possibility to do a semi-official tutorial with CA, because that's... Bad design, I'd say. But really intuitive now I know, so only needs to be obvious. Hundreds of hours in two games, and I've never realised. Tho I stay out of multiplayer, as that's not my jam
That's some quality content.
21:05 was shocking
Cool - lots of great info
Another important thing ,having two or multiple dragons close to each others cancel the breath attack !
Dragons can help you win a flank engagement by robbing an enemy cav unit of it's charge. Just need to have your own cav unit to mop up and help him disengage after.
Do these principles apply to the Hydra too, or is it different since that's a ground based monster?
War hydras can't really choose their fight/cyclecharge the way a dragon can so not really.
Hydra breath functions essentially the same as Dragon breath. Just keep in mind: Hydras are much harder to get out of combat than Dragons due to the not flying thing, so it's not so easy to pick and choose where to use their breath attacks, and you might not get to use all 3 breaths in a battle. So you may want to use it whenever you get a decent shot rather than trying to set up a perfect moment.
"That's what the AI does" **apply water to burns**
I realize this is a very old video, but how does the MD reduction work with multiple models? Obviously there's the rear charge/flanked leadership penalties, but is the MD reduction based on facing direction of individual models or of the entire unit?
The secret to dragons is that if you find a problem the dragons can't solve, you aren't using enough dragons.
good info :)
Treat dragons as (shock) cavalry on steroids
Great job,,thanks
Guys would you play with Lord imrik with 19 dragons or how much dragons or monsters you should have in your stacks?